Latest / Connect Call / EP06 - Beyond the Stigma: Addressing Mental Health in Young Men with Jordan & Mark

Transcript

EP06 - Beyond the Stigma: Addressing Mental Health in Young Men with Jordan & Mark · Connect Call

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call.
• 0:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's one for more options.
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Hannah, I'm a therapist here in town.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we met recently at a marking event.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You were talking about, you know, working with adolescents and young adults, but more importantly, you were really talking about gender-specific treatment, especially for young adults.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is it failure to thrive or launch?
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a young man.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's about 24 years old.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been to a couple other facilities, but I don't know.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just keep bringing him home, and he's in the basement, basically.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll not in the basement, but he's living in home with his parents, and he doesn't a job, didn't complete school, and he's just kind of not indulging.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I was wondering if he could give me a callback, so we can discuss some of these resources.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: That'd be great.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Hannah Brett with another episode of Connect Call, where I often say I don't have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up calls with families in crisis.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of been my like Lucy Goosey tagline.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's corny, I know.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my guests today are very excited to have both of you on.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are two men that I have kind of grown up in the industry with?
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got Mark Orther.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: the CEO of Balance House and I have Jordan Spectre who's the Chief Development Officer for Paste Recovery Center as well as co-founder also the practice.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you guys have a lot more on your bios and resumes that I'm not mentioning, but the reason why I brought you both here today is I got a call from a therapist as you guys heard.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was dealing with a young adult male who would
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: a couple of thirty-day programs prior.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think what I wanted to really dive into and talk about in this episode is what is, you know, gender-specific treatment, why it's so important for like a young adult male to go away, to do a treatment program,
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe for longer than 40 days, what it entails and how effective is it, you know?
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my first question is, you know, why do you guys find it important to have treatment programs specifically tailored for young men and what unique challenges do they face compared to other demographics?
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say young men, can we talk about what are the ages you guys see?
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll jump in and I just want to say how grateful I am to be on your podcast today.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Hannah, for having me and to share the stage with such an important person in my journey in this field, Mark Orther.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: is a huge honor for me.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Mark, thanks for being here.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have, you know, like all of us, we've looked up to you and all of the stuff that you've done.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have to maybe add some fake stuff to my bio to keep up with you.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I won't do that today.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm happy to hear to, you know, be here and have this conversation with you both, you know, two friends of mine.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And to answer Hannah, your question, I think at pace, what we see
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: and what we treat here are clients 18 to 35.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I think back in the day maybe five six years ago, it was more 18 to 30 and we're finding now there are more 30 to 35
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: maturity level of doing, you know, nothing as well.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like, you know, from the scene for wedding crashers, one of those in the base, this basement screen has mom that gives them me loaf.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're finding a lot more of these old guys, older guys in their 30s, who are, you know, as failure to launch as the younger guys.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And with the exact same symptomology of some of these, you know, 18 to 30 year olds that we treated initially.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, 18 to 35 is really what we call young men at our program.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: YouTube Mark.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say that that's exactly right.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like as far as what we've seen change over time, right?
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like you rewind five years ago compared to where we are now.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's where it's so we're like 18 to 40, right?
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's the 40 year old that's still in mom and dad's basement, probably playing for me and be super maria brothers, but for other people,
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the visual that we like to give families.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little dramatic when we say, if your kids still living in your basement, obviously your kids not living in your basement, but what we have seen over the years is that young man, and it's true for women too, but that young man, who,
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: might have completed college might have not really just hasn't figured out how to adult without mom and dad.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not even, I know when I was looking at cases when I was working for a couple other programs, you know, it was always just kind of the same formula of a young man who maybe was struggling with mental health, some trauma, things like that.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing was never really dealt with.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They may have self-medicated with some substance use and other things, or they're just
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you know, as we see today like different parent today were, you know, our family, what we are seeing more of is more of a parent not wanting to keep have their kid be uncomfortable and because of that, what's happening as we've got these young men who are not ready to launch to thrive and I just there's no like.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the right way.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the wrong way, but typically when you go to college, it's you're leaving your parents' house.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going back in.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when I went back in after college, my mom said you have three months, and then you're gonna start paying me rent.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just saying to go to London.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we say it all the time here.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: The only time, you know, we should be tell parents the only time your kids should be moving back into your house is with their spouse saving money for the first house.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the only time after college I should move back in.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: that, you know, COVID has reset the clock on a lot of these young men and also gives, you know, gave a lot of them who work really interesting doing much anyways, you know, the car blanche to continue to do nothing and then their families did not hold their feet to the fire because really, where were you going to send them, you know, like, what were you going to do at the time?
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's, you know,
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: delayed a lot of the young men that we treat, you know, into their 30s, you know, like Mark was saying, you know, honestly we see it all the way up to, you know, into, you know, to 40 being able to actually launch into life and be successful.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like who is your typical climate balance house?
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I would say typically 18 to 40 a guy that has, I mean, the brilliant, right?
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like so the guys are not coming to us for like a lack of intelligence, right?
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's more they get stuck and it's,
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mom and dad, you know, and trust me, I'm having that bailed me out of a lot.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So mom and dad will typically keep throwing the safety net, right?
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then so it's like they're just about to hit bottom, you know, and it, and it's either, you know, yes, it's typically the catalyst is the substance, but a lot of times it's the mental health that
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: to Jordan's point, right?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It has really increased since COVID, right?
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've seen where guys are not really wanting to launch lack of motivation, right?
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And just kind of lost in their own and their own life.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot that I've started college, but much like me, blue out in famous fashion, right?
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because they just either want ready, didn't have the skills, didn't have the
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: been with underneath them on Resolve trauma.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I were seeing that a lot and I am so grateful that people are talking about the trauma, right?
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because 30 years ago when I came in the AA and got sober, right?
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was very much a big book sent in my life, 12-star program sent in my life, great life, right?
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there was so much more than need to be worth for it.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, you're so right, Mark.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I got sober too, it was really 12 steps.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they like, you know, you saw a therapist in a psychiatrist, but whatever.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what we know today is, you know, all that, you know, substance use really is a self-medicating for mental health and trauma untreated.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to get to that as well.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you know, I think I want you guys to both talk about and elaborate on, you know, how your programs, you know, being that they're residential and there's an extended state portion of it.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You find is a more effective environment for healing and personal growth for these young men.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look to programs like you, and I'll often hear in my head like my mom would say, I'd be like, how long do I have to stay and should be like, how long is a piece of string?
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for every young man, it is obviously different.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is no average stay, but what do you traditionally see and how, I mean, we're all gonna say it longer is better, but what do you, why do you find your model to be effective?
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I, I would say that time, time takes time, right?
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like, is that?
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: time takes time right like having any kind of any kind of time at all and our guys stay for about a year I would say right and do they have to commit to a year before no because that would be like me saying I'm going to commit to the rest of my life we as a we as an organization need to earn these guys time so
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: what I mean by that is all right give me can be 45 days give me 90 days give me 60 days and we will earn the rest and a hundred percent of the time maybe ninety nine we do right and that that goes to and
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can as well speak to Jordan and Lenny in the organization that they run is that it's all about the staff and it's all about the relationships that are created that where guys will buy in they feel cared for they feel love they feel supported and they're building a life.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: that they never knew could exist for them.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so you can't do that in 30 days.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do that in 60 days.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But they build a community over time.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yes, it's the program, it's the clinical part, it's the recreation, it's the relationships, it's the relationships with these guys that really matter.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jordan, before I go, you know, let me just explain to the viewers and listeners who don't understand.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for the longest time and tell me from wrong, there was always these 30, 30 day residential stays, right?
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then typically back in the day, if when you were done with that, you would go to what's called a quote unquote sober living, right?
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: and what people found in places that I'd work for in the past and you guys found, there was a gap in the market, right?
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because sober living traditionally was you would be all in the structure of residential and then go to sober living and they'd be like, all right, go get a job, go to meetings and be back at a certain time.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But no one showed us how to walk out that door, how to have life skills, how to even apply us a school again, how to, and it sounds crazy, but like when I stopped drinking and drugging, first of all, it did not take 30 days.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: took me 30 days to maybe clear up my head and detox, but it was practicing all these new life skills without having substances involved.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so some of these guys having mom and dad hold their hand, you know, like we used to do a life skill bus classes and had a sign up for a class class or had to go food shopping and have like
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: a good food list, you know?
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think what were you guys came in where all these programs started for young men especially, where we called them more of an extended stay, a structured extended stay, where the way I can describe it to people is like, you know, they're coming out of treatment, we're holding their hand and then slowly we're letting go, right?
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we're doing it slower as faster, and that's always been
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: like what I love about both of your programs is, you know, and listen, I would like to say, you know, when people do ask how long I'm like, I really don't know everybody's different, right?
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's how you're brain and how you are going to show up.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but with that being said, like, and Jordan, let me know, like, what is your minimum stay with your program or like when you're on average?
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I would, you know, I would, our, ours is typically six months to a year.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the gold standard at Pippison, I'm sure, at Bounce House, because they just said it is, you know, to get that year mark programing, you know, and I remember what I was like through this.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: My dad heard that you know, four times better chance of the long-term success if you stay in programming for a year.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the goal standard we want them to beat here at least a year.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think six months to a year, now a day is kind of what we're seeing.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard it early on, Mark says it the time takes time.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard it early, early on.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you guys did like.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you were struggling and you wanted to know how long it was going to take till you started to feel better or whatever, they would say, well, if you spent eight years, if your disease was eight years or you've been experiencing trouble for eight years, you've walked into the woods for eight years.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: In order to get back out of the woods, it's going to take you, you have to go back the way you came and that would take another eight years.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, that's just analogies, basically, reaffirming what Mark said that,
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it takes time to rewrite everything, you know, all of the wrong turns and, you know, all of the, you know, the wandering into the woods and so it takes time to come out.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so even in the professional program that we run, you know, you're seeing that, you know, pilots and doctors, they're their mandatory treatment hours around 90 days.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So even professionals who have advanced degrees and are doing some of those important work in our country when they're
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, caught either with burnout or, you know, substance use or mental health issues, they're required to take a lot of time.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So with the young adults who, like you said, Hannah, they don't, you know, their self-esteem is, you know, very low their self-worth is low.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have college degrees a lot of them here.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: If they do like myself, I went, you know, I had my college degree, but I didn't know how to live my life.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was, I didn't know how to do my laundry or, you know, properly shot and cooked for myself.
• 15:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so with young adults, it just takes a lot longer to, you know, relearn how to live.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, I think beyond that, ways.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the families need time to like.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: to themselves as well and to work on themselves, you know?
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like at Bounce House, you know, the long, you know, a young man needs to feel a sense of belonging, in a sense of family, in a sense of home.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think a long-term treatment, you know, program.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It gives them the chance to create healthy attachments around positive young people.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like we call a positive peer pressure here.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Most families like that.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean one time there was a family that didn't like that.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: But positive peer pressure the way it's like, you know, guys are, you know, to get out of pace, you got to go to school, you got to get a job, you know, that's what is the cool thing to do here is to advance through the program and to create like sustainability and wellness with young adults who, you know, again,
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But basically, their parents have done everything for them their whole life, including myself and I was going through this.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they need to relearn how to live on their own because the goal for any young person is to be able to provide for themselves and be able to live, to be able to earn a living.
• 16:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That feels better than anything else, and so I think it just takes time to get to that point.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're like repair, redoing a lot of
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, teaching on how to get there.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, are we have three phases?
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know bounce house has phases.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the first phase of that residential in people are, you know, getting settled and getting the clinical work addressing underlying trauma and anything that, you know, factored into the substance use.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: If there is substance use, and then by the time they're done with that, it's like, okay, you're gonna start getting your phone back and then what does that look like?
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it just takes time, because it's like this with young people.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is a man.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We kick off and let me just rest that for people, you know, because it's going to go into my next question I get and I'm sure you guys do too and we're going to talk about this about what typical treatment costs and you know insurance and what we'll pay and what won't and all that but typically what I will find.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: is I will find the family who has tried a few 30 day in network with their insurance programs that their son or daughter but son went to and they're exhausted because this is the third program
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you and I and we all know this like that wasn't the way to go, you know, the way to go probably from the jump was to do something like balance house or pace recovery center just because, you know, if you do it, what's the saying if you do it, and I'll remember, but longer is better.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But everybody wants to find out and do this 30 day and just go back to home and try to go back to work.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what do you say to those families that are completely a financial and emotional and exhausted?
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, I don't know if this is going to work this time.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't work the last few times.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because your programs are different.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, we hear it, right?
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I for sure hear it, where it's like.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know it's kind of the opposite right like the the standard is the opposite of what you said which is longer is better right but but they're like the shorter is better right instead shiny object and a lot of times the the timeline doesn't match the problem right it's it's exactly what Jordan was referencing which is it takes so long that we've walked into this problem
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: singer for my parents.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was by the time I was 21, right?
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so to get a sense of normalcy around me and in me, it took time.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, like for sure, people want to do the 30 days.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think it takes 30, if not 60 days for the brain to catch up to the body.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: where right where like I am thinking normally and understanding because that's just the treatment aspect of things and then you still have the life to learn how to lead of
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know how to be a human being right like when I when I got sober right like I didn't know how to be a productive member of society and you know I didn't know what purpose meant and so these are the things that I feel like these guys are
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: missing, right?
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because if I go to treatment, which I did, by the way, went to a 30 day stay, it is like it is so easy for me to go backwards, right?
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I went back to the same environment, made the same decisions and hung out with the same people.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Time gives you time, time gives you protection, and yeah, I mean, it is in, it is for sure an
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: right of financially for the families and or the clients right we've we've had some guys that are paid for themselves understanding that they're investing in their future.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think yeah go on tour you go.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, I mean, I just to piggyback on Mark was saying, I think, you know, I, you know, we, we get, um, you know, families that, you know, they, they spend all this money either on the 38 program and then they take them home or they spend money in the 38 program.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't set up sufficient aftercare planning wherever they're going back to.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we even, you know, our first phase is 90 day minimum.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we require at pace.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you come here, I mean, you know,
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we require a 90 day, you know, that something's going to be here for 90 days.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the first commitment and then when, you know, families are pulling their kids home after 90 days.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: We say, what are they going back to?
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what are they, you know, what, like, what are they even going back to?
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Most of the guys that come to pace.
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they finally have more friends they've ever had in their life when they're at home.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: They've been isolating, like marketing in their basic playing video games, gambling, we're seeing so much of that, you know, basically not even able to, you know, even be social they're on their phone so much.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, everyone's, you know, hurry up to get home.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what, what are you, you know, what is that, what are you even doing at home?
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to go back to where we have unhealthy friends or no friends.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: back in your room.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you know, parents have a really easy, you know, they're, they're forgetter part of their brain is very strong because they don't realize a lot of times where they were at even 30 days ago or at the beginning of this process when they're calling us from psychospitals or, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, just like the crazy situations before they would take action to come to a bounce house or pace.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we always say to them, like, you know, you know, where, where, what is the plan now?
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what do they have at home and try to get the families to see that the really is nothing left for them at home?
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe one day they can go back there after they take the time to build a life for themselves.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for now, they have more friends they've ever had in their lives.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know they they're part of like what we call the pace brotherhood here and you know and I think you know that you know giving another shot you know finding a place that can be with someone long-term they're with their same therapist over the course of time here the same psychiatrist you know the team the treatment team of both programs I'm sure know these clients all the way through and so by giving them the chance to be somewhere long-term they're giving them you know giving their loved one of the chance to be successful on turn
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what I wish insurance companies would listen to as well and and all families if you hear nothing else hear this for any individual going into treatment right that's you know your stuff is being fed by some anxiety depression bipolar you name it medications are tried and tried out this is not a quick fix.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, to taper off a medication can take a month, to then add a medication and feel a shift it could take a month to six weeks.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we need time, what did you say time heals time, time makes time?
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Time takes time.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: time takes time.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It really does.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's where there's the disconnect and some fortunate.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, there are many families I talk to that will be like, I need to know when my son can return to brown.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Deveter that and I'll be like for sure.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that, well, we are going to do is that check that you're writing to Brown next semester.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be writing to the Treatment Center because this is a better investment for your child.
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of families get a hung up on, they have to stay on course, but if they are just not thriving, surviving and living, like there's no point doing that.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a horrible investment of your money.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's a lot of families I find where this is expensive.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, they have to find the resources, you know, it's easy for us to say, you know, how long's a piece of string or your minimum or, you know, I always say, even if you're not in residential, you should be following some sort of clinical recommendations up until a year.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's your relationships, your job, what cardigan, whether you should do a B and C, get a plan or a pet,
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: everything should be dictated over by, like, clinical something.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Therapists, somebody should be dictating stuff for you for that year.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for those families, you know, can you kind of explain, obviously there's a cost to this treatment, but, you know, and I want to stress this, I couldn't think of the name of the fund, but there are funds out there that I'm going to put in the show notes that families can't apply to.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: for financial aid for some of these treatment programs that will match whatever the fund will give you.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you guys the clinical stuff is paid by insurance, correct?
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: We need to depends on policy and company.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we are what's called an out-of-network provider, right?
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are not in network with any insurance companies and that's by design, right?
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And why we do that is that
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's typically regulations as far as like length of time and what in network contracts will allow versus out of network, which is we are literally aligned with the families like we want them to get as much reimbursement as they possibly can.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: We will provide all of the documentation, all of the assessments, and all the claims that are necessary for a family to get reimbursed.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that is that is where as what we do, so upon admission, right, like the families will be paying the tuition and then we quickly get to work on the reimbursement process.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And let me stress this.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is, you know, especially with the families who are sent their kids to a private school.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they're like private college or university and say they don't have the money for this type of treatment.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're just literally switching you're just investing in.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're sick because what will happen with these young men, tell me if I'm wrong.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But by the time they're leaving your programs, this is what we did with the program I worked for, is we would have them then, if they were in school when we were pulling them out, we would have them start looking at universities and colleges in the country that had a recovery or mental health component to the campus, which would support them, you know, because very rare at CHA, I'd pull, however there was one kid that I'd pull out of one campus
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and we see the same thing like the one cool thing about Salt Lake has been like we see a lot of families from these coast for whatever reason
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the typical line is I'll never stand Utah and then they end up staying in Utah, right?
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they may end up going to the local university, the thing that that we see, which is very appealing to families that like Jordan was talking about with the phase system.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have the fourth phase, which is apartments that we on.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: where guys move in and they're paying part of their rent, right?
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So parents, of course, love that part of it.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And by the time they're leaving, they should have at least $5,000 to $10,000 saved in their account, right?
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because we do not want them going backwards, right?
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're working part time.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want them full time.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: because then they'll get too busy and forget why they're actually here.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if they're working part-time and they're able to save and do all those things, and yeah, guys have wanted to go back to school, right?
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because they're clear-headed, and back to what I said before, these are some of the most brilliant guys I've ever met, right?
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they just need a little bit of direction, right?
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, navigation through their
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always used to save a young adults when I tell my story.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you used your powers for good and not evil, man, you would, man, you know what I mean?
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't mess with somebody who gets addicted to something because, well, we want, you know, I go after, I try to go after, I hate to say it, like, no, I'm not going to say it, but, you know, I would go after life the kind of way I go after that next high, that next fix.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what's important is and I'm going to stress this when I left treatment the first couple times like I just remember even going into a restaurant and having to pick up might to go order at the bar like no one teaches you these things and that's why.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you the work that you two are doing in the programs that you guys have to me and the extended portion of that is as important if not more important than, you know, any mean, because it's really just it's the practicing of getting them, you know, and when parents don't get that we just, you know, we asked them to, you know, try to learn a language in 30 days get back to us on that, you know, or.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love, I love that you just shared that because I, so I got sober in South Carolina and they sell alcohol in the grocery stores.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so for a year, I would avoid that.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll even though I needed something that was down the aisle other than.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, yes, no one, no one teaches you that like you're not going to get bit or you're not going to catch on, right?
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to catch on fire or whatever.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like normalizing life for these guys.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the three people that are on this call, right?
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: All of us got sober younger, right?
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like there's a related ability factor.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: that, you know, when the, I may or may not have gone through a lot of therapists when I was a kid, right?
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the first one that was credible to me was the one that actually shared her story, right?
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: She didn't have to give me a ton.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she gave me a little bit and didn't have a folder out that was already existing and sit behind a desk and already, you know, in my eighth grade or seventh grade mind was prejudging me and all of a sudden this one showed up differently and, you know, I know.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: that this approach specifically for young adult men, you know, probably women too, let's specifically who we work with and who Jordan and Lenny work with.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that is the approach, just the relatability, it's the, I'm not pretending to be something that I am, right?
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, don't want your.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I just piggyback on that, I think that's the beauty of all men's gender specific treatment is that I think a lot of times, guys will come in and they have had a hard time of vulnerability with other men and whether it's posturing, peacocking, insecurity,
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, life trying to over probably borderline annoying trying to be accepted by, you know, my peers and I think, you know, coming, you know, I think that's the important thing about being a generous specific treatment is that, you know, while they're with us at a Baltimore programs, I'm sure they learn how to have real authentic relationships, platonic relationships with other men.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, in our program.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's super super, it's a win to be.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly because, you know, like I was saying earlier, you know, if you had a woman in the group, you know, not that everyone is straight in your programming, but if you have a woman in your group, a lot of the young guys would, you know, actively say different things within process group, do anything they can to express rest of the girl, you know, I think that, you know, I think that that is at the core of, you know,
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, being able to be authentic with the pure brew, but also not having to press anyone, you know, come has, you know, show up how you are, you know, and be your true self, like, as opposed to what you believe people want to see.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, that, you know, that is more, you know, that is what we see more, and that's our philosophy behind gender specific treatment.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's what worked for me.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: when I was going through this 15 years ago, you know, I had a lot of humbling, you know, to do, I think there was very grandiose in my storytelling when I first got to treatment and I think.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, talking about how great I was and all the great things that I did, you know, we, we always talk about, you know, how, how, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, no, I would see, I would, you see in my, my bookshelf, I mean, a lot of sea ox stuff these days, but, you know, I think, you know, we talk about how great you are and being amongst other men that can, you know, you know, call you out and help you, you know, humble you a little bit, I think that was really important for my story.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then that was a big part of how important Jennifer treatment is for you know for us so.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the subject I'm going to be diving into another episode to find out more about but if you do have a young man who is.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: two different things, but if is questioning their sexuality or is gay, or you have a young man who recently identifies as a man, questioning their gender, or like obviously sexuality is different from gender, but with the trans community, are you able to work with any of those guys or you typically refer out?
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, typically I want to have a longer conversation with a lot like, you know, well, I mean, it is.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And typically our philosophy is that it's a, it's a, for gender, but environment has typically been a very good one.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have referred out.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a longer conversation of like gathering more information.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: on that.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, it's funny.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look back and, you know, when I was in treatment, I was very confused about my sexuality.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I thought I like boys and girls.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember the CEO of the Treatment Center was like,
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: old school 12 step emerging guy and he'd be like, can I used to say, you know, boy stick with the boys and girls stick with the girls but with you I don't know what the fuck to do.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just look at the floor and I was like, okay, because like you know, but you know, having a safe place and having those guys feel comfortable and again, that's with when you're calling any of these programs,
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: definitely wanting to assess like, is this the right place for my son?
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think also what you guys touched on to slow-important was like, yes, the program was this and the staff was that, but literally there was two other women in my program who we were considered the tripod and they are the ones that kept me sober and I kept them sober.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: summer.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that network was so important to me of young women that I could relate to, you know, that I could be friends with.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like giving kind of, you know, when we have a guy rushing to go back to school or rushing to go back wherever, it's just like, why?
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's like, why don't you grow and practice with other men just like you?
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't feel like, you
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know that you're the odd men out, which isn't the case anymore.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of positives around, you know, like we call it a brother in here and I know, you know, bounce house shares this similar philosophy, but there's a, you know, we try to take the positive, you know, like, there's a lot of positive things that come for opportunities.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously there is some, you know, negative things, of course, and the same with like gangs or things like that, there's a lot of reasons why those work, you know, obviously at our programs, we want to only take the positive parts of those.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: a silver fraternity at pace like there's, you know, high alpha.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Chi, epsilon, I don't know if I really got that right.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's pace, lettering, and Greek, and our conference room, and because, again, we're switching a lot more mental health these days.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the clients have shifted.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the idea remains the same is that they will be with other people that they can relate to, and form friends that can trudge the road with them.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so by looking up to somebody who has something that you want or is doing something,
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: of how to be and, you know, like, well, you know, that's what got me to really recover.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I think these guys are pretty cool.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do what they do.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so just that simple thing, obviously, there's a lot of clinical work, but just that, you know, simple thing about being within a brotherhood of men, you know, like you were saying that you can relate to, and that peer group that will help push you through the dark times that they need so important.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, both pace and bounce house, you know, they're the similar things like we have, you know, we have rapidly basketball, we have softball leagues, you know, lots of experiential activities for the, for the brotherhood of a whole, they go paintballing, they go go carding, you know, I know that they take, you know, market, they convince the mountains there, and they're, they're skiing together.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, all of those things are so, well, you guys where they are.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you have an artistic kid, or if you have a kid who,
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we have music group where we record, you know, recording songs and they can, you know, yeah, it's definitely, you know, ways for them to relate to their peers where they can, you know, formulate true connection is what we we star for.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I drink and drum the myself, you know, you know, to have a spiritual experience, basically, you know, I realize back in, you know, like when I'm really looking back at it, I wanted to have
• 38:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a spiritual experience, and then you know, finding my connection on my higher power is what gives me my spiritual experience on a daily basis.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and for the, you know, they always say the opposite of addiction is connection.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's so true for our guys, like you, you want to be connected to something.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they come in very disconnected from, you know, society, the world, their friends, you know, how they actually want to be.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also want to stress this, you know, we have a couple more questions, but really stress this is I can see this already happening and no judgment, but I need people to understand and maybe you guys can better clarify what you're seeing, but, you know, when we all went to treatment, it was like 12 steps, right, and we like did this in that, but today we'll just see more of a complicated case, right, we're seeing more of a guy, even anyone who needs real strong clinical work being.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: being in their program as well as they can do 12 steps or some other, I mean I'm a big believer yes 12 steps works for me doesn't have to be for everybody else and so there's other options but the core there has to be a good clinical program because we need to find out what is kind of making all those symptoms come up you know and I find that you know, you know
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's more people that they're looking at faith-based treatment or 12-step immersion or anything like that.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, there's nothing wrong about those programs, but as long as there's a clinical piece to it, you know what I mean?
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is really parallel.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's annoying to say it over and over again, but it's a truth.
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: If somebody had cancer, you wouldn't will be church instead of going to Kema.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You just wouldn't.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the, and I don't know how many times we have to say it.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a disease at the brain.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your mental health, your substance use, whatever.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is the disease of the brain.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the clinical piece is very important.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: What it, like, what approaches are like, how do you support the clinical piece in your programs?
• 40:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it's not, I think, I mean, it's multi-faceted.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, I've worked for a lot of programs.
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been, I've been doing this a long time.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's like this buzzword that's called individualized treatment, right?
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or it's like we provide individualized.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: We actually do, right, and so what that means and what that looks like is that we have the client participate in what's working for them, right?
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, we do individual therapy and all of our therapists are certified in everything under the moon, right?
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like EMDR for one guy might be effective and for the other guy might be the worst thing in the world,
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: the same because it's not going to work.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Every every single guy is coming in as different, right?
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have a specific set of needs.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one thing to draw me crazy was that when when I went to treatment and when I would go to therapist, they asked every single person except for me, what I need it, except for me, what I need it, right?
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, why?
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I have a voice.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have,
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that sometimes we underestimate how much power clients have, and into who they are and what they need, we just need to be able to give them access to do that, and we provide that space for them, right?
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like physical safety and then emotional safety for every single guy.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's important like any program that's, you know, I remember we all, we all, we all had to drink the same cool aid like every case was the same and we all were treated the same and I just feel like it is, it is a, it's a term used a lot, but it's needed like you, everybody's different and their individual needs are different and with these,
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, young men today.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know how what you're toward what you're seeing, but like a lot of times, you know, I would see more body just more fan eating disorder with my guys and what would be women, you know?
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think I think for us and I think you know, we I completely agree with everything Mark just said and you know, we you know, we we believe exactly the same here.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, one of the things that I love about pace, you know, it's just a long time that I've been here, is that, you know, the program we talked about plenty a couple of times, he, you know, he is a therapist, you know, so it's, you know, I know that the partners at the bounce out, you know, bounce out
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: and operated business.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it always has been from the beginning about the clinical work.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you could come to taste because we have past academy, but you know, it's work, we're not, we're a school program, we're a surfing, you can come surf here, but that's second to the program.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, we're a treatment program for everything that we do here is going to be, you know, from, from an actual, you know, therapeutic lens and, you know, with, with the, you know, medical team here, we have psychiatrists and nurses full-time nursing, 20-power nursing now, because the acuity of the clients that we're seeing, you know, and so everything, all the decisions are made by a multi-disciplinary team who meet every single week at treatment team to discuss,
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, what, how is this person doing clinically?
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we can, you know, build from there.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, one of the things that I wanted to add earlier was, you know, I know that bounce house in pace, you know, we've been known to treat cannabis and do psychosis, which is, you know, one of the, you know, most prominent things that, you know, young, young people are dealing with today because of the weaponized THC.
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the weed that you and I smoked, or that I smoked 15 years ago that you guys smoked longer ago, because long term sobriety in the Zoom,
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but no, but it's 99% percent cost rate.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'd say through percent or more of our programs are just still with cabs and psychosis, and we know it, you know, from the research that it takes at least six months to figure out, is this organic issue or is this drug induced?
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's another feather in the cap for long-term treatment.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's to figure out actually what's going on with these young people, young men in our case.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you look at our staff pages, you know, multiple psychiatrists,
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: therapists, we have, you know, certified drug and alcohol, counselor, certified counselors who are the case managers.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, with the, with the, with the, the higher acuity of clients that were coming in these days, you know, it just takes a lot more clinical work to be able to treat and so like all of the decisions around, you know, are they able to have this privilege or that privilege is, is done, you know, in a, in a clinical,
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys might not say it.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are many, many men and women that I know, including me.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think I did more work on myself, who are quote unquote sober, who've collected chip, right?
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But can use some clung over.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you didn't get that.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just, I'm not really important.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: The last episode, I gave in the show notes, really lengthy, great list of questions for families to ask when they're calling admission centers for adolescent young adult programs.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the clinical piece is very, very, very important.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I will stress that
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, before we leave, I wanted to ask you guys something that you guys probably also run up against is, you know, there's still such a stigma for young men, right, to work on their mental health.
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I into a young man, it's always the safe word is anxiety.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can't say depression.
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: these guys to participate, to like really to embrace, to help the stigma, I guess you could say.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, bro, I just want to dip back for one second and just talk about the, the pot used.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is the most common thing that we're seeing.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things that I want families to hear is that, yeah, this is not the pot of the 90s, right?
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like this pot is being created by scientists.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: not your local hippie that was growing pot right so like it is a it is a totally different drug.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then there's no more swag there's no more swag listen and and for some people they can handle it and some people they can not sing handle it.
• 47:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like, I remember my old clinical director used to say, like, if you have a child, or your family, you know, there's bipolar in your family, you're predisposed for that.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, your kids should not even go anywhere near that.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it unleashes this dragon.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen it.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: In some cases, I had a kid who was like the, literally he was like the captain of the debate team at Duke, and he came to us.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't for six months because of a THC psychosis couldn't identify his mother in father, you know, and it happens, you know?
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you have to, and if you're a family picking like Marfa's saying, you know, it's like mostly caught around here these days, you know, but if you're a family picking a treatment program for your son who either who might have psychosis or other negative, you know, impacts of marijuana, you want to be very sure that the clinical team is equipped to treat.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: The clinical and medical team is equipped to treat that first before anything else because all the other stuff sounds great skiing and whatever else is going on, but if they're if they're not treating that there is no way are they able to even take, you know,
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: on the hill who are in charge of our health department in this country are looking there is a trajectory of opening up 60 something faith-based treatment centers all over the America as an expansion of mental health benefits to make America healthy again.
• 49:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not anti it as long as there's a very, very, very strong clinical program involved.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: one of the most common things that I see and, you know, Jordan, you tell me if you see this too, is a lack of purpose with our guys, right?
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like they wake up every single day and they're surrounded by mediocrity.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: because they just don't feel like they're filling, right?
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, all of us were put here for a reason, right?
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever that is, and all of us have different gifts and different things to be able to give away.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And our goal is to chase that purpose, right?
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one makes us happiest as humans.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Once we heal, right, once we have the opportunity to heal, it's to be able to use whatever gift we have, whatever that is to make the world a better place, right, like some people have great musicians and their great teachers or their this.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And once they use that to either teach people and or make their life better, that is what genuinely for me to make me happy as a human.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember my counselor was like, you know, what do you like?
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know.
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, what don't you look?
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the whole, and I do want to touch on a stable question.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I need to go on, but that's the whole crux of, you know, the issue, you know, at least for me, and I think a lot of people is like, what do you even, what do you want to do yourself?
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not what do you think society wants you to do?
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or what do you think, you know, what do you, not what, you know, you think your friends will think you're cool for doing.
• 50:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people pleasing that parents parents, you know, you know, what, what, and in our guy, you know, I think, you know, and I think that's something to send a lot of us who were going through this woke up that way, feeling, you know, like, you know, surrounded, they know purpose, like even with a really good degree, you know, no purpose.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that, you know, that's a big part of what these young guys, you know, 18 to 40 now are doing here at, you know, at our programs.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just want to say I'm really grateful to have you both on to talk about young men's treatment.
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: At the end of this, we're going to have shown us with both your links so people can utilize both resources at Balance House or at Peace for Every Center.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to thank you again for both being here.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love you, Madly.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're here to support you every step of the way.