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The Nature of the Church · Reformed Thinking

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Distinctive audio segment plays Reformed thinking.
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Welcome to the deep dodge. This is where we take a whole
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stack of information, the articles, research our own
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notes, and really boil it down to the core insights for you.
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Today we're digging into something fundamental, the
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nature of the church. We want to get past maybe the
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casual ideas we all have about what church means and really
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understand what it is. We've drawn from quite a range
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of theological sources to bring you the main ideas.
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Our goal here is to give you a clearer picture of the church,
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why figuring out its nature matters, and how looking at it
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biblically can help clear up some common discussions.
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It's true, isn't it? The church is something people
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generally recognize. You might picture a building or
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think of your specific congregation, maybe even a whole
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denomination like the Presbyterians or Methodists.
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But even though it seems so visible, there's often a, well,
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a surprising lack of clarity about what the church is at its
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very root. It's interesting you look back
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through history and core Christian beliefs, say about
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Christ's identity or the Trinity.
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They were intensely debated and defined centuries back then.
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The Middle Ages, huge focus on Christ's saving work.
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The Reformation in the 16th century really hammered out the
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doctrine of salvation, Yet the doctrine of the church itself it
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was often just well taken for granted. 1 theologian writing as
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late as 1948 even said it was still in a kind of pre
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theological phase, which suggests its basic nature hadn't
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really been systematically explored in the same way.
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It just shows how something so central could remain, you know,
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somewhat fuzzy for so long. OK, so our task today is
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defining the church, and it sounds like Step 1 is just
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sorting through some of this, this general confusion around
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it. Yes, absolutely.
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A big part of the confusion stems from the word church
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itself. We just use it in so many
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different ways, don't we? Think about it.
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You say I'm going to church, Usually means a building, right?
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Right, the physical place. Or you might say, I belong to
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First Community Church. That points to a specific group
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of believers, a local body, and then it can also mean a whole
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denomination, the Baptist Church, the Lutheran Church, all
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these common uses. They kind of muddy the waters
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when we try to grasp the essential meaning of the church.
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And it's not just the word itself, is it?
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You mentioned current trends, cultural or theological, might
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also be changing how people view the church.
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It sounds like the focus might have shifted.
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It definitely seems to have a lot of modern theological
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writing about the church has a very practical focus.
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Like what it does? Exactly.
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Its role in society, maybe its relationship with the secular
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world or its mission work. Now, those are all valuable
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things to consider, obviously, but sometimes this practical
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focus can sort of over shadow the conversation about its
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fundamental identity. What is it essentially?
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Plus you have the influence of, well, a more postmodern outlook
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and culture generally. There's often a greater leaning
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towards experience and emotion, maybe less emphasis on precise
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definitions or clear statements about what something is.
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So feeling over definition. In some ways, yeah.
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And that naturally leads to less stress on church doctrine, on
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what the church actually is. That connects to something you
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hinted at earlier. Maybe even our view of God
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influences this. That's a really sharp
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observation. There's been maybe a growing
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tendency to focus on God's imminence right His direct work
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in the world through many different channels, rather than
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seeing his work primarily channeled through a specific
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supernatural institution like the church.
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The God's working everywhere, not just in church.
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Right. And that subtle shift can
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redirect attention away from the church's unique identity towards
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simply its activities. If God's activity is seen
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broadly, the specific nature of the church might seem less
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distinct. This often results in practical
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concerns what the church does shaping our understanding more
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than clear biblical teaching about what the church is.
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OK, so we're faced with all these different ways people use
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the word, these cultural shifts. How do we actually anchor our
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understanding then? How do we define the church
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reliably? That is the crucial question,
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isn't it? When things feel fluid?
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Our sources point towards 2 main ways people approach defining
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the church, and they clearly favor one.
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The first way we could call it the empirical dynamic
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definition. This approach kind of sidesteps
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defining the church by a fixed essence or nature.
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So it looks at what how it appears.
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Pretty much it focuses on what the church does in its actual
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historical settings, or maybe what it is becoming.
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It sees the church as dynamic, always in process, like an event
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or a project, not something finished or static.
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It's a very fluid concept. Defining it by its actions, its
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current state, rather than its core identity.
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What's the potential problem with that way of thinking?
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Well, the main risk is losing connection with its historical
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identity. If the definition just shifts
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with every social change or cultural trend, what actually
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distinguishes it as the church? It could just blend in.
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Exactly. It could become hard to tell
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apart from, say, a social agency or a community club, if its
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identity is only based on its present activities.
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There's no stable reference point to say, is this still
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fundamentally the church, or has it become something else
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entirely? It really begs the question of
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what qualifies it. OK, so if that approach has
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significant drawbacks, what's the recommended alternative?
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The sources must point to a more solid way to define it.
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They certainly do. The preferred method is what's
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termed the biblical philological definition.
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This grounds the church's identity firmly in Scripture
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itself. It seeks to understand the
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church's essence by looking directly at the biblical terms
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used for it and how they're employed.
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So going back to the source text.
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Right now, our English word church, it actually comes from a
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Greek word, criacos, which means belonging to the Lord.
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That's interesting itself, but the foundational understanding
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really comes from the main Greek New Testament word ecclesia.
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That's the key term we need to unpack.
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Ecclesia. OK, Did that word have a meaning
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before the New Testament used it?
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Oh yes it did. In classical Greek, ecclesia
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commonly referred to a secular assembly, specifically the
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assembly of citizens in a Greek city state, the polis.
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Like a town meeting. Sort of, but often more formal.
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Think of the Athenian assembly gathering to debate and vote on
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civic matters maybe multiple times a year was primarily about
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public business, not usually religious fellowship.
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So it's original background is quite civic and secular.
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Interesting. And what about his background in
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the Old Testament? Are there Hebrew concepts that
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help us understand the New Testament meaning?
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Yes, and this is maybe even more significant.
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In the Old Testament we find 2 key Hebrew terms related to
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assembly, Cajal and ETA. Cajal basically refers to a
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summons to assemble and the act of assembling itself.
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It could be for religious purposes, like the big assembly
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at Sinai, but it could also be a more general gathering.
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Men, women, children, even foreigners.
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Sometimes it emphasizes the event of coming together.
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OK, Quahal is the gathering event, what about Ada?
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Ada is used quite often, especially in the Torah, the
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first five books. It tends to refer to the people
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Israel as a constituted ceremonial community,
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particularly when gathered for religious occasions like
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observing Passover before the Tent of meeting.
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It's more about the standing community itself in its
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religious capacity. So Quahal is the active
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assembling, Ada is the established religious community.
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How did these connect to Ecclesia when the Old Testament
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was translated into Greek? The Septuagint.
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This is where it gets really insightful.
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In the Septuagint, the translators often used ecclesia
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to render the Hebrew word quahal.
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But, and this is crucial, they never used ecclesia to translate
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ada. Ada was typically translated by
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a different Greek word, suno go, which is where we get synagogue.
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That's a key distinction. It really is.
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This choice strongly suggests that the New Testament concept
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of the Church using ecclesia draws more on the idea of a
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called out assembly, emphasizing God's act of summons and the
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dynamic gathering, rather than just inheriting the identity of
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an existing ceremonial group. It points to ecclesia as our
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primary New Testament term for understanding the Church.
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That distinction is really helpful.
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So now let's look at how ecclesia itself is used in the
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New Testament. Does it usually mean just a
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small local group or something bigger?
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In the New Testament, equasia is used in two main senses and both
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are very significant. Most frequently it does refer to
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a local manifestation of believers.
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Like specific congregation? Exactly.
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A group in a particular city, like Paul writing to the Church
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of God in Corinth, or even smaller groups meeting in homes.
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The church that meets at their house.
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In the book of Acts. It often refers to all the
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Christians in a specific locality like Jerusalem or
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Antioch. So it clearly points to the
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concrete, observable reality of believers gathering together.
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So the local expression is primary in terms of usage, but
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then there's also this concept of the universal church, isn't
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there? How do those two ideas, local
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and universal, relate? This is a critical point.
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It's not simply that you add up all the local churches to get
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the universal one. Our sources stress that a local
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congregation is never viewed as merely a part of the whole
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church. OK.
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How so? Instead, the whole church,
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universal reality, is seen as being present in each local
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gathering. Every local assembly, regardless
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of its size, actually represents the total community.
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The one church, one source puts it like this.
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It's one throughout the whole world, and yet is at the same
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time fully present in every individual assembly.
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That's a profound thought. Wow, OK, the whole is in the
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part. In a sense, yes.
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This perspective is vital for understanding passages like
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Matthew 16.18 where Jesus says I will build my church.
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He's clearly Speaking of a universal reality that wasn't
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yet fully formed on earth, and Paul's letters, especially
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Ephesians, reinforce this powerfully.
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He talks about Christ being head over all things for the Church,
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which is His body encompassing everyone, everywhere, across all
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time. Who is savingly related to
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Christ past, present and future believers?
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So pulling all that together, the words history, its local
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use, its universal nature, what kind of working theological
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definition does this lead us to? Based particularly on that
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universal understanding, a good theological definition would be
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something like this. The Church is the whole body of
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those who, through Christ's death, have been savingly
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reconciled to God and have received new life.
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It includes all such persons, whether in heaven or on earth.
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This definition captures both its divine origin through Christ
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and its comprehensive scope, even all it manifests in local
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local gatherings. That raises a really interesting
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point. If we define the church
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primarily by its source, its divine origin, and God's plan,
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what does that tell us about its fundamental qualities beyond
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just what it does day-to-day? That's a perfect transition
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because Paul especially uses several powerful images in his
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letters that give us a much clearer picture of the church's
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character, it's essential qualities.
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And these images also beautifully illustrate the
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Church's relationship to the Triune Godfather, Son, and Holy
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Spirit. OK, so these images aren't just
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metaphors, they reveal something core about its identity.
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What's the first one? The first key image is the
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people of God. This really brings out God's own
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initiative, His choice in creating a people for himself.
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Think back to the Old Testament. And God didn't just adopt an
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existing nation, He actively chose.
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Abraham brought Israel into being.
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It was his creation. His specific project, so to
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speak. Exactly.
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And in the New Testament this concept is dramatically
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broadened. It now includes both Jews and
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Gentiles within the one people of God, the Church.
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Paul actually takes Old Testament phrases about Israel
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being my people like from Hosea, and applies them directly to
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both Jewish and Gentile believers whom God has called
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into the church. You see this in Romans Chapter
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9. So God owns his people.
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Yes, there's a strong sense divine ownership.
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God takes pride in his people. He cares for them, protects
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them. The phrase apple of his eye
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comes to mind, and in return he expects their complete loyalty.
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The story of Hosea and Gomer is often used to illustrate God's
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exclusive claim on his people. And thinking about ownership,
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how does the sign of belonging change from the old covenant to
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the new within this people of God idea?
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That's a key shift. Under the Old Covenant, the
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external sign was physical circumcision.
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But in the New Covenant, the mark of belonging becomes an
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internal reality, a circumcision of the heart by the Spirit.
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As Paul puts it in Romans 2 and Philippians 3, inclusion in
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God's people, the church, is no longer based on national
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identity. Paul is clear, not all who are
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descended from Israel or Israel. It's about God's call bringing
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people from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds into one
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body. The Church is identified by its
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place within the New Covenant established by Christ.
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So being God's people isn't just a status, it comes with an
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expectation, right? A certain character.
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Absolutely. A specific quality of life is
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expected. Holiness.
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Just as Israel was called to be distinct and pure, the church is
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called the holiness. Ephesians 5 puts it powerfully.
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Christ gave Himself for the church to make her holy,
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cleansing her, and to present her to Himself as a radiant
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church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy
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and blameless. This image roots the church in
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God's sovereign choice and His purifying purpose.
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OK, that's the people of God. What's the second image you
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mentioned? The body of Christ.
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That one feels particularly rich.
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It is often considered the most expressive image, though it's
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not the only one, of course. The Body of Christ highlights
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the Church as the primary place of Christ's activity now in the
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world. It's like the Church functions
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as Christ's presence and agency today, mirroring how His
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physical body operated during his earthly ministry.
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And this applies broadly. Yes, both to the universal
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church like in Ephesians one where God appointed Christ head
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over everything for the church which is His body, and also to
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local congregations. Paul tells the Corinthians
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directly and 1st Corinthians 12 Now you are the body of Christ,
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and each one of you is a part of it.
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So it points very strongly to connection to union with Christ.
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That's a central theme. It underscores the church's
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vital link with Christ. Our salvation in many ways flows
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from this union with him. That phrase from Colossians,
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Christ in you the hope of Glory, captures this intimate
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connection. Christ is at the very heart of
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the Church's life and purpose. And he's not just in the body,
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he's also the head of the body. What does that imply for the
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Church? Yes, Christ is the head and
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believers are the individual members or parts of this body.
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Just as Colossians says. All things were created through
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him and for him. Ephesians One speaks of God's
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plan to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth
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under Christ as head. As the head, Christ rules and
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directs the Church. He is its Lord.
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It's very similar to Jesus's own analogy in chapter 15 of himself
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as the vine and believers as the branches, depicting a living
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connection where He is the source and authority.
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Thinking about the church as a body also naturally brings up
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the interconnectedness of all the members Paul talks a lot
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about. That doesn't he?
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He certainly does. This image powerfully speaks to
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the mutual dependence of everyone who makes up the
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Church. It stresses that Christian faith
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isn't just a private, individual relationship with the Lord.
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In First Corinthians 12, Paul really develops this theme of
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the body's unity and diversity, especially regarding spiritual
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gifts. He insists that though there are
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many parts, they form 1 body. All believers, regardless of
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background, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, have been
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baptized by 1 Spirit into one body.
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And the different gifts the. Various members are given
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different gifts, but these aren't for personal status or
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gratification. They're given for the common
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good, to build up the entire body.
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Paul points out that some gifts might seem more prominent, but
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that doesn't make them more necessary than others.
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No one gift is given to everyone, and no single person
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possesses all the gifts. Every member needs the others,
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and every member is needed by the others.
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There's this profound interdependence.
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This interdependence suggests a certain way that the body should
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function internally, doesn't it? How members relate to each other
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dealing with issues. It absolutely does.
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The body should be characterized by mutual care and genuine
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fellowship. Believers are called to
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encourage one another, build each other up in love, and carry
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each other's burdens. As Elation 6 says, this also
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involves maintaining the health and purity of the body.
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That means, when necessary, restoring those caught in sin or
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in serious cases, even exercising discipline through
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exclusion from fellowship, following principles laid out by
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Jesus in Matthew 18 and applied by Paul in places like First
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Corinthians 5. And this fellowship isn't just
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limited to the present moment. No, our sources mentioned that
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this fellowship, this communion of Saints, actually extends
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across time. It connects believers today with
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that great cloud of witnesses, those who have gone before us,
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mentioned in Hebrews 12, and even with those yet to come.
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It's a vast interconnected body. So unity is a major theme
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flowing from the body of Christ image.
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How does that unity play out across potential barriers?
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The body is meant to demonstrate a profound unity that overcomes
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typical human divisions, things like loyalty to certain leaders,
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social cliques, and especially ethnic or social barriers.
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Paul's words and Ephesians 4 are so clear.
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One body and one Spirit, 1 Lord, 1 Faith, one baptism, one God
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and Father of all. And in Colossians 3 he states
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that within this new body there is no Gentile or Jew,
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circumcised or uncircumcised, bargarian, Scythian, slave or
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free. But Christ is all and is in all.
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All those distinctions that divide humanity are meant to be
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nullified within the Church. And finally, as the body of
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Christ, the church isn't just passive, right?
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It has an active mission. Definitely not passive as
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Christ's body, the Church is His instrument to carry on His work
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in the world. Christ, possessing all
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authority, commissioned his followers, his body, to make
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disciples, baptize and teach, promising His ongoing presence.
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That's the Great Commission in Matthew 28.
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He even told them in John 14 that they would do greater
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things than He did because He was going to the Father,
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implying their empowered ministry through the Spirit.
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If Christ's work is to continue, it's carried out by His body,
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the Church. This image shows the Church as
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Christ's continuing act of presence.
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At the very comprehensive picture now to complete this
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Trinitarian framework, there's the third image, the Temple of
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the Holy Spirit. Yes, this image beautifully
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rounds out the picture Paul paints of the church's
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relationship with Guard. It's the Holy Spirit who
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actually brought the church into existence.
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Think of Pentecost. The Spirit descended, baptized
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the disciples into union with Christ.
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Thousands were converted. That was the birth of the
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church, and the Spirit continues to populate the church as First
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Corinthians 12 says, for we were all baptized by 1 Spirit so as
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to form 1 body. This highlights the spirits
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initiating an ongoing role in the church's very being.
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And this idea of the church being indwelt by the Spirit,
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what does that practically mean for believers and the church as
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a whole? It signifies an incredibly
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intimate reality. The church is indwelt by the
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Spirit, both individually and corporately.
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Paul asked the Corinthians almost incredulously.
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Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and
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that God's Spirit lives among you?
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That's in First Corinthians 3. He repeats it for individuals in
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First Corinthians 6, saying your body is a temple of the Holy
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Spirit who is in you. And Ephesians 2 describes
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believers being built together to become a dwelling in which
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God lives by his Spirit. It speaks to the sacredness and
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the intimate presence of God within his people.
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If the Spirit indwells the church, then his character, his
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life, should be evident. There shouldn't.
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It that's the implication, yes. Because the Holy Spirit lives
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within the church, he imparts his life to it.
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Therefore, the fruit of the Spirit, qualities like Lovejoy,
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peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
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gentleness, self-control listed in Galatians 5.
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These should characterize the church's life.
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The presence of these qualities is evidence of the Spirit's work
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and in a way testifies to the genuineness of the Church.
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And beyond character, there's also the aspect of enablement or
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strength. How does the Spirit provide
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that? The Holy Spirit gives strength,
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or perhaps better ability, to the church for its witness and
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ministry. Jesus promises directly in Acts
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1.8. But you will receive ability
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when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my
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witnesses. This explains the remarkable
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effectiveness of the early believers.
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It wasn't down to their own eloquence or strategy, but the
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direct result of the Spirit's empowering work.
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Jesus also said the Spirit would convict the world concerning
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sin, righteousness and judgement, doing a work that
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believers couldn't do on their own.
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So just like the body of Christ image, the Spirit also fosters
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unity within this temple. Precisely the Spirit being 1
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Spirit produces unity within the body.
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He indwells a oneness of purpose and action.
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This was vividly demonstrated in the early church, described in
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Acts 4 as being one in heart and mind.
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Their willingness to share possessions flowed from this
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deep Spirit produced unity. It's a key indicator of the
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Spirit's presence. And being sensitive to God's
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guidance, that's also part of the Spirit's work in the church.
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It is indeed. The indwelling Spirit creates a
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sensitivity to the Lord's leading.
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Jesus promised the Spirit would teach them all things, bring his
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teachings to remembrance, and guide them into all truth.
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John 14 and 16 speak to this. Peter's vision in Acts 10 is a
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powerful example. He was resistant at first due to
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his background, but the Spirit guided him to understand that
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the vision was about reaching Gentiles with the gospel,
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pushing him beyond his previous understanding to follow God's
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expanding plan. The Spirit also has a role in
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equipping the church, distributing gifts and roles.
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Yes, the Spirit functions, in a sense, as the administrator of
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the church's resources. He sovereignly equips the body
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by distributing gifts, whether that's specific people appointed
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to roles or particular abilities given to individuals as he
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determines. According to First Corinthians
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12 point in the 11th, this points to the Spirit's wisdom in
21:45
preparing the church for its diverse functions.
21:48
And finally, this temple image brings us back to that crucial
21:50
characteristic, holiness. Yes.
21:53
The Holy Spirit makes the church holy, just as the physical
21:56
temple in the Old Testament was sacred.
21:58
Because of God's presence, believers both individually and
22:01
corporately are sanctified, set apart as holy because they are
22:05
the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit.
22:07
Paul makes this connection explicit in First Corinthians 6
22:09
when talking about fleeing immorality.
22:11
Because the body is the Spirit's temple, it stresses the church's
22:15
sacred calling and the need for purity.
22:18
What's really striking here is that these images people of God,
22:21
Body of Christ, Temple of the Spirit, they aren't just nice
22:24
illustrations. They reveal the church is a
22:26
community defined by its relationship to the triune God,
22:29
intended to carry out God's will through the sun's headship and
22:32
by the Spirit's enablement. They give us a rich, biblically
22:35
grounded understanding of the church's identity and purpose.
22:38
OK, so we have this clearer picture from the definitions and
22:42
these images. But understanding this, what
22:44
does it mean practically? You mentioned earlier that
22:48
beyond these descriptions, our sources highlight four special
22:52
problems, areas that have historically caused a lot of
22:55
discussion and different opinions.
22:57
These sound like pressure points where the church's nature has
23:00
really been debated. That's a good way to put it.
23:02
These are areas where clarity is needed.
23:04
The 1st special problem concerns the relationship between the
23:08
Church and the Kingdom of God. The core question is, are church
23:12
and Kingdom basically interchangeable terms?
23:16
Some might infer that from Jesus's words in Matthew 16,
23:19
where he talks about building his church and then immediately
23:22
gives Peter the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
23:24
Right. They seem closely linked there.
23:26
They are closely linked, but our sources argue strongly against
23:29
equating them. It would be stretching the
23:31
language they suggest. So if they're not identical, how
23:35
should we understand the difference between Church and
23:37
Kingdom? The general understanding is
23:39
this. The Kingdom of God refers
23:41
primarily to God's reign, His sovereign rule and authority.
23:45
It's about God actively ruling. The church, on the other hand,
23:50
is best understood as a realm where God's rule is manifested,
23:53
specifically the community of people who have submitted to His
23:57
rule. It's the human community that is
23:59
subject to God's reign. So the Church is where the
24:02
Kingdom is visible among people now.
24:04
That's a good way to think about it.
24:05
The Church is a primary manifestation of God's reign on
24:08
earth in this present age. It's where His sovereign rule
24:11
finds expression in and through human lives.
24:13
And didn't you mention a theologian, George Ladd offered
24:16
some specific points to clarify this relationship.
24:19
Yes, George Eldon Ladd provided 5 helpful distinctions that
24:23
really clarify how the Kingdom and the Church relate while
24:26
keeping them distinct. 1st, and maybe most pointedly, the church
24:30
is not the Kingdom. They are related, but not the
24:32
same entity. Second, the Kingdom creates the
24:35
church. It's God's sovereign ruling
24:37
activity that brings the church into existence.
24:39
Third, the church witnesses to the Kingdom.
24:42
It's life and message point to the reality of God's reign.
24:45
OK, not the Kingdom created by it witnesses to it.
24:49
What else? 4th The church is the instrument
24:51
of the Kingdom. God uses the church to carry out
24:54
his purposes, to extend the influence of his reign.
24:57
And 5th, The Church is the custodian of the Kingdom.
25:01
It's entrusted with the truths and responsibilities associated
25:04
with God's reign, preserving and proclaiming the gospel of the
25:07
Kingdom. That framework seems really
25:09
helpful. So the Church is deeply
25:11
connected to the Kingdom, but the Kingdom itself is actually
25:13
broader than the Church. Exactly.
25:15
The Kingdom of God exists wherever God's rule is
25:18
acknowledged and his will is done.
25:20
So it existed in heaven before creation, where angels obeyed
25:24
Him. Angels are part of the Kingdom,
25:26
but they're not part of the Church.
25:28
Also, under the Old Covenant, the specific form the Kingdom
25:31
took on earth was the nation of Israel.
25:33
So the Church is just one specific, albeit central,
25:36
manifestation of God's Kingdom throughout history.
25:39
Right, that clarifies the church Kingdom relationship.
25:41
The second problem area you mentioned involves the church in
25:44
Israel. Our sources called this a point
25:46
of widely and sharply differing opinions.
25:48
What are the main views and tension here?
25:50
This is definitely a complex area.
25:52
On one end of the spectrum, you have some theological positions,
25:55
sometimes associated with certain Reformed views,
25:58
suggesting that national, literal Israel has been
26:01
effectively replaced or absorbed by the Church.
26:04
In this view, there isn't necessarily a distinct future
26:06
plan for national Israel as a nation.
26:09
So the church takes over Israel's role completely.
26:12
That's the idea in that view. Then on the other end, you have
26:14
dispensationalist views, which tend to see Israel and the
26:18
church as two largely separate entities throughout God's plan.
26:22
They might view the church as a kind of unforeseen parenthesis
26:25
in God's program, which was primarily focused on Israel.
26:28
In this view, Old Testament prophecies generally apply only
26:31
to Israel, not the church, and God has distinct future plans
26:35
for both. Two very different perspectives.
26:37
Where do our sources land on this?
26:39
You suggest that they advocate for a middle path.
26:41
Yes. The sources we're drawing from
26:42
argued that the most biblical position lies somewhere between
26:46
the two poles. It's more integrated view.
26:49
First, they acknowledged that spiritual Israel, which is
26:51
essentially the church composed of believing Jews and Gentiles,
26:55
has in a significant sense taken the place that national Israel
26:59
held under the Old Covenant. Paul's arguments in Romans 2
27:03
about a true Jew being 1 inwardly in Galatians 3 about
27:07
believers in Christ being Abraham's true descendants and
27:09
heirs strongly support this idea of a spiritual fulfillment.
27:13
And does this mean Old Testament promises originally given to
27:16
Israel can now apply to the church?
27:18
Yes, that's a key part of this middle view.
27:20
Our sources point out that New Testament writers explicitly
27:23
apply some Old Testament prophecies and promises
27:26
originally directed to literal Israel to the New Testament
27:29
church, which includes both Jews and Paul's use of Hosea in
27:33
Romans 9. Applying prophecies about Israel
27:35
becoming God's people to the Gentiles called into the church
27:38
is a prime example. OK, so the Church fulfills
27:41
promises made to Israel, but despite this fulfillment, does
27:44
this view still see a future specifically for national
27:47
Israel? It does.
27:48
This is where it clearly differs from the replacement view.
27:51
Our sources affirm that there is still a future for national
27:54
Israel. God hasn't permanently set them
27:56
aside. They remain, in some sense his
27:59
special people. Paul's discussion in Romans 11,
28:02
culminating in the statement All Israel will be saved, points
28:05
towards a future restoration. But how will this salvation or
28:08
restoration for Israel happen according to this view?
28:11
Crucially, it will happen through their turning to Christ.
28:15
The sources suggest this future salvation involves a large scale
28:18
conversion to Christ and entry into the church.
28:21
There isn't a separate path to salvation for Israel.
28:24
Like Gentiles, their hope lies in embracing Jesus as Messiah
28:27
and becoming part of his body, the church.
28:30
The New Testament doesn't offer another way.
28:32
So could you summarize this middle ground position on the
28:34
church in Israel? In essence, the church is seen
28:37
as the new or true Israel it occupies.
28:41
The position in the New Covenant that national Israel held in the
28:44
Old God's Kingdom, once primarily expressed through
28:47
national Israel, is now primarily expressed through the
28:50
church. Importantly, Old Testament
28:53
believers weren't discarded. They were incorporated into the
28:55
Church at Pentecost. The apostles, ethnically Jewish,
28:59
formed the nucleus. This view sees Israel as being
29:02
included within the Church, not merely succeeded by it.
29:05
Thus, God's people remain truly one people, and the body of
29:08
Christ is truly one body across both testaments.
29:11
Thinking about the bigger picture, this middle ground
29:14
seems to show a single, consistent story of salvation,
29:16
doesn't it? Rather than God having separate,
29:18
disconnected plans. Precisely, it maintains the
29:21
continuity of God's redemptive work through one people unified
29:25
in Christ. OK, moving to the third special
29:28
problem, the distinction between the visible church and the
29:31
invisible church. This idea, articulated by
29:33
reformers like Luther and Calvin, deals with how the ideal
29:36
true church described in Scripture relates to the actual
29:39
present day institution we see. What sorts of questions does
29:42
this distinction raise? It brings up some really
29:45
fundamental questions. For instance, are all the people
29:48
who are members of a visible local church necessarily true
29:51
believers, part of the invisible church?
29:53
Conversely, can someone be a true believer, part of Christ's
29:57
invisible body, without being formally affiliated with a
30:00
visible church? And maybe the most basic
30:02
question, which aspect has priority?
30:05
Is the institutional church primary conferring grace and
30:08
identity, or is the individual spiritual state primary, with
30:12
the church simply being the collection of saved individuals?
30:15
It forces us to grapple with the gap between the the ideal and
30:18
the reality. And how have people typically
30:20
answered these questions? What are the main contrasting
30:22
viewpoints on this visible invisible distinction?
30:25
Broadly speaking, we can see three main tendencies.
30:28
First, there's the view that prioritizes the institutional or
30:31
visible church. This is often found in
30:34
traditions like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy,
30:37
and some forms of Anglicanism. This perspective tends to see
30:41
Jesus statement I will build my church as establishing the
30:44
institution itself, giving it authority, and making it the
30:47
primary channel of God's grace. Apostolic succession, a
30:50
traceable lineage back to the apostles, often becomes a key
30:54
marker of legitimacy in its stronger forms.
30:56
This view might suggest that outside this visible, structured
30:59
church, there's ordinarily no salvation.
31:02
It places a high value on Church order, sacraments administered
31:05
by ordained clergy, and membership.
31:07
OK. That's one end.
31:08
Focusing on the outward structure, what's the view at
31:10
the other end of the spectrum? At the other extreme, you find
31:13
more individualistic or perhaps pietistic approaches.
31:16
These strongly emphasize the individual's personal
31:19
relationship with God through Christ as the sole determinant
31:22
of being a Christian. From this perspective, the
31:26
church is essentially formed by regenerate individuals coming
31:28
together, the visible organization.
31:31
The structure is seen as secondary, sometimes even
31:34
relatively unimportant or unnecessary.
31:37
People might prefer informal fellowships or para church
31:39
ministries over formal church membership.
31:42
Some dispensational views that see the Church age as temporary
31:45
can sometimes align with this, potentially downplaying the
31:48
enduring significance of the visible church structure.
31:51
The focus here is very much on individual piety and experience.
31:55
So 1 focuses on the institution, the other on the individual's
31:58
direct experience. Is there a middle position that
32:00
tries to hold both aspects together?
32:02
Yes, there is often associated with the magisterial reformers
32:06
and their successors. This view seeks to affirm both
32:09
the visible and invisible aspects.
32:12
It maintains that the visible church includes everyone who
32:14
professes faith and participates in the life of a congregation
32:18
gathered around the Word and sacraments.
32:20
However, within this visible gathering, the true or invisible
32:24
church consists only of those who possess genuine saving
32:27
faith. This view also identifies
32:29
objective marks by which a true visible church can be
32:32
recognized, typically the true preaching of the Word meaning
32:36
correct doctrine, and the right administration of the sacraments
32:39
according to Christ's institution.
32:41
These marks point to the health and legitimacy of the visible
32:44
expression. Given these different
32:46
perspectives, what's the conclusion our sources reach
32:49
regarding this distinction? Is it a necessary distinction to
32:51
maintain? Our sources conclude that yes,
32:53
the distinction between the visible and invisible church
32:56
does need to be maintained, though carefully.
32:59
The primary reason is realism, acknowledging the reality of
33:02
hypocrisy and false profession within the church.
33:05
Jesus parable of the wheat and the weeds growing together until
33:08
the harvest. Matthew 13 illustrates this
33:11
mixed nature. Only the Lord knows those who
33:13
are his. Second Timothy 2.1 D Scripture
33:17
also seems to prioritize the individual's spiritual state,
33:19
faith, and repentance as the basis for salvation, not simply
33:23
membership in an organization, but.
33:24
Acknowledging that doesn't mean the visible church isn't
33:26
crucial, right? It's not saying local church
33:28
involvement is optional. No, absolutely not.
33:32
While individual faith is primary for salvation, the
33:34
sources strongly affirm the vital necessity of the visible
33:37
church. It's the context for essential
33:40
aspects of Christian life, fellowship, mutual edification,
33:43
corporate prayer, service, accountability, and discipline.
33:46
Christianity is inherently corporate.
33:48
The Christian life finds its fullest expression in
33:51
relationship with other believers within the visible
33:53
body. Acts 2 shows the believers
33:55
immediately devoting themselves to fellowship and the apostles
33:58
teaching. Examples of church discipline in
34:01
Acts 5 or First Corinthians 5 also presuppose a visible,
34:04
accountable community. So the goal isn't to separate
34:07
them, but. The goal should be to strive to
34:09
make the visible church and the invisible church as identical as
34:13
possible. This involves diligence in
34:15
teaching, in pastoral care, and in church discipline, ensuring
34:19
that membership reflects genuine faith as much as humanly
34:22
possible, and that open sin is addressed.
34:25
Perfect purity won't be achieved in this life, but it remains the
34:28
direction the visible Church should constantly pursue.
34:30
OK, that makes sense. Now for the 4th and final
34:33
special problem, the time of inception of the church.
34:36
Basically, when did the church actually begin?
34:39
Some might argue it started much earlier than the New Testament
34:42
period. That's correct.
34:44
Some theologians have suggested the church in some form existed
34:47
during the patriarchal period with Abraham or during the
34:50
Mosaic period with Israel. However, the sources we're
34:53
looking at present strong arguments for pinpointing the
34:56
church's beginning, specifically at Pentecost.
34:58
What's the evidence pointing to Pentecost as the starting point?
35:01
There are several lines of reasoning.
35:03
First, Jesus's own language in Matthew 16.18 I will build my
35:07
church is distinctly future oriented.
35:10
It suggests the entity he calls my church was not yet in
35:13
existence during his earthly ministry.
35:15
Second, Luke's pattern of using the word ecclesia church is
35:19
quite revealing. The word is absent from his
35:21
Gospel account of Jesus life, but then it appears 24 times in
35:25
the book of Acts, which chronicles the events beginning
35:27
from Pentecost onwards. This shift strongly implies Luke
35:31
saw Pentecost as the starting point of the entity he calls the
35:33
church. What about Acts 7.38 where
35:36
Stephen refers to the assembly ecclesia in the wilderness with
35:40
Moses? Doesn't that point to an earlier
35:42
existence? That's a good point to raise.
35:45
However, the sources generally view Stevens use there as a
35:48
non-technical reference to Israel as an assembled group
35:52
using the common Greek term rather than identifying it as
35:55
the specific New Testament church Christ promised to build.
35:58
The context suggests he's speaking retrospectively about
36:01
Israel's gathering, not equating it directly with the post
36:04
Pentecost church. OK, so if the church formally
36:06
began at Pentecost, what does that imply about Old Testament
36:10
believers like Abraham, Moses, David?
36:12
Were they part of the church or something separate?
36:14
This can expect to the Israel Church discussion.
36:17
The view presented is that Old Testament believers, the true
36:20
spiritual Israel, were not left out, but were actually
36:23
incorporated into the church at Pentecost.
36:26
The apostles themselves are the prime example.
36:29
They were believing Israelites who became the foundation, the
36:32
nucleus of the church when the Spirit came.
36:35
The argument is that if Old Testament Saints were saved
36:37
through faith, looking forward to Christ's redemptive work,
36:40
just as New Testament believers are saved looking back, then the
36:43
event of Pentecost effectively swept them into the same body.
36:47
So it unified God's people across time.
36:49
Exactly, It wasn't that Israel was simply replaced or succeeded
36:53
by the church. Rather, Israel was included
36:55
within the church. This maintains the unity of
36:58
God's people. They are truly one people.
37:00
The Body of Christ is truly one body, encompassing believers
37:03
from both covenants, formerly constituted as the Church at
37:06
Pentecost. You know what's really
37:07
interesting here is all this careful thinking about the
37:10
church's nature, its images, these historical debates.
37:14
It's not just academic, is it? It clearly has tangible
37:17
implications for how we understand our faith and how we
37:20
live it out. Absolutely.
37:21
These theological points have direct practical relevance.
37:24
They shape how we see ourselves in our communities.
37:27
So let's draw out some of those core implications from this deep
37:30
dive. The first take away seems to be
37:32
that the church is fundamentally a divine institution.
37:36
It's not primarily just a sociological phenomenon.
37:39
Right, that's foundational. It's true nature is determined
37:41
by God's design revealed in Scripture, not just by analyzing
37:45
its social functions or structures.
37:46
It originates with God. The second point flows from
37:50
that, yeah, it's very existence is defined by its relationship
37:53
to the Triune God. Precisely.
37:55
The Church exists because of its connection to the Father whose
37:58
will it seeks to do, the Son who is its Lord and Head, and the
38:02
Holy Spirit who empowers it. This relationship is its
38:05
defining characteristic. And 3rd building on that, the
38:08
Church serves as the ongoing presence and ministry of Christ
38:11
in the world today. Yes, it's the means by which
38:14
Christ continues his work evangelizing, baptizing,
38:17
teaching, serving. It extends his mission into the
38:21
present age. It's his body at work.
38:23
Fourthly, ideally the Church ought to be a fellowship
38:26
composed of genuinely regenerate believers.
38:29
That's the internal character that should market a community
38:32
of people truly transformed by God's grace, displaying the
38:36
spiritual qualities, the fruit of the Spirit, that reflect
38:39
their Lord. Purity and devotion within the
38:41
Fellowship are therefore central concerns.
38:44
And the fifth point provides a dose of realism, reminding us of
38:47
the church's current state. It's imperfect, yet progressing.
38:51
Right. While it's a divine creation,
38:53
it's populated by imperfect human beings still undergoing
38:57
sanctification. It won't reach its final state
38:59
of perfection or glorification until Christ returns, but in the
39:02
meantime it should be constantly striving towards greater purity
39:06
and faithfulness. So.
39:07
Why does getting this understanding right really
39:09
matter for us today? Well, first, having a precise,
39:12
biblically grounded understanding helps combat the
39:15
widespread confusion about the church's basic nature that we
39:18
talked about at the beginning, confusion arising from multiple
39:21
word uses and maybe historical neglect.
39:24
Second, in a time where practical concerns or cultural
39:27
trends can sometimes dictate how the church is understood or
39:30
operates, a sound theological view provides A vital anchor,
39:34
ensuring that the church's actions align with its God-given
39:37
identity and purpose. It keeps practice rooted in
39:40
principle. Exactly. 3rd.
39:43
In a world that often views concepts as fluid and constantly
39:46
changing, a theological understanding rooted in
39:48
Scripture helps the church maintain continuity with its
39:51
historical and biblical identity.
39:53
It prevents it from simply becoming indistinguishable from
39:55
any other human organization or social club.
39:58
And 4th, it guards against reductionism.
40:00
Yes, it defends against reducing the Church to merely a social
40:04
institution definable only in sociological terms.
40:08
It affirms its unique, divinely ordained character and mission.
40:12
Which really brings us back to a personal question for
40:14
reflection. How might grasping these
40:17
foundational truths about the church shape how you engage with
40:20
your own local assembly? How might it change how you view
40:23
its part, however small or large, in God's grand unfolding
40:28
story? That's a really practical
40:30
thought to leave with you, our listener.
40:31
We've taken quite a deep dive today into the nature of the
40:34
church, moving past surface level ideas to really grasp its
40:37
divine essence. Explore those rich biblical
40:39
images and find clarity by looking at some key historical
40:42
discussions. Think about what these truths
40:44
mean for your own life. How does understanding the
40:47
church is God's chosen people as Christ's living body, as the
40:50
Spirit's indwelling temple? How does that affect your
40:53
perspective and your participation within your local
40:55
fellowship? Thank you for joining us on this
40:57
deep dive. Until next time, keep seeking,
40:59
keep learning, and keep growing. Podcast Outro audio plays.
41:02
Reformed thinking.