Latest / Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson / Start Me Up: Jess Craven

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Start Me Up: Jess Craven · Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson

0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Start Me Up podcast part of MSW Media and the sexy liberal podcast network.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Kimberly Johnson in DC.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Today my guest is Jess Craven.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a political content creator and the author of Chopwood Carry Water Daily Actions on Substuck.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the co-host of the Proctivist Pod on MSW Media, and she aims to help average Americans become more engaged in the political process and to help elect more progressive lawmakers everywhere.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited to talk to her.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her sub-stack, but before we get into it.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: The Start Me Up Podcast is independent, listen or fund it, and woman run.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Visit patreon.com slash start me up to see the variety of tiers offered, including the option to get a bonus what's up episode just for patrons every Tuesday.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like my online journal where I get a little more personal and I talk about whatever's on my mind.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also an ad free tier with a much shorter intro.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Just visit patreon.com slash start me up.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Now please enjoy my conversation with just Craven.
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show, Jess.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hi.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so very glad to be here.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Kimberly, thanks for having me.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to have you because I always get your sub stack and I'm like, oh, good.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's here.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I follow you on social media at your key to at least for me.
1:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know a lot of other people staying sane, telling us the good things, the things we can do.
1:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You also have
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You take on the task of letting us know, like, for instance, I want to talk to you about what's in this big brutal bill, as you call it, and some of the timelines.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, what you do is very educational, it's very helpful, and then, of course, it's entertaining.
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But just in case some of my listeners are not aware of you, I would like for you to just talk about who you are and your sub-stack and the podcasts that you know, the practivist with Steve Pearson and everything that you're doing.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so yeah, I am a, I guess, first and foremost, an activist and that was how I got started in this work was, you know, Trump got elected the first time.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I was someone who'd always been very interested in politics, but I worked in completely different, you know, field.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started looking for little actions to take for myself because I realized that I was so upset about Trump being elected, if I didn't do something, I was gonna go crazy.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And my husband asked me if I would share the actions with him so he could take them to and then my mother asked, and then few other people asked, and suddenly I'm sending out an email, which became chocolate carry water.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The newsletter that now goes out to like a hundred and fifty thousand people every day.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It started out on, you know, my email platform and then went to MailChimp.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm on Substack, which is a great place to be.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And it basically, the idea behind it, you know, Trump would carry water.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The saying is obviously it's like a Buddhist saying.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's from a book about Buddhism.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I learned it from my dad as a sort of thing to use during difficult times that you just, Trump would carry water.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You, you just do the next thing in front of you and try not to get
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: wrapped up in what's going to happen in the future.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I named the newsletter that I never realized I would be doing this newsletter for whatever, however, the decade.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not, you know, I didn't really think through the name or anything.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So now it is just topwood curry water.
3:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And the idea is that
3:42
[SPEAKER_01]: you take a few actions and it helps with anxiety.
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It really does.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It helps to feel more empowered in a situation that is very, very scary.
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also those actions actually work that they will actually move the needle and generate some hope.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what it is.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I give people some call scripts so they can call their reps.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I give them something they can do to help win an election.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I will generally give people an opportunity to learn something by going to a webinar, I'll invite them to different webinars I hear about.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's great.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that generated my deciding at some point in twenty twenty that I was going to get on TikTok to try to recruit more people for a phone bank for Biden, I think, and now that has evolved into me being a full-time also content creator.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a podcast with Steve Pearson called Practice Pod.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So very little free time.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very honored and grateful to be doing what I sort of think I might have been put on earth to do, but I wish in a way that I would be unemployed because there was no need for me, but that's not happening right now.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally understand you.
4:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't feel like you do as far as, I mean, I've got my place and I don't want to diminish myself or anything like that, but I mean, I honestly do not feel that calling that you have.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a different
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: you know take on this and I just I when this election happened I mean I was so devastated all my listeners know I had a rock in my stomach for six weeks I was so afraid because my mother was like I seventy eight year old mom wanted to move to Portugal and you know I was freaking out because I'm her only daughter and I'm her only child so it's like imagine your mom leaving the country because she's just so upset I mean she's healthy and everything but still it was very traumatic on top of what was going on and then
5:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, I mean, I think Thanksgiving, it finally kind of broke for me where I didn't feel sick every single day.
5:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, of course, we're having all these days that are just awful.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess there's so many things that I want to ask you about, but as far as what you're seeing and hearing at least from people who follow you and you know, I'm sure you get tons of comments, tons of questions.
6:04
[SPEAKER_00]: What is kind of like the feeling out there from people who follow you?
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, are they coming at you with fear?
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they are like, you know, seeing what they can do?
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you experiencing from the public?
6:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, no, people are terrified.
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people are terrified.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They're overwhelmed.
6:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They're furious.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that makes it all the more inspiring that they're still willing to take action, that people have not given up.
6:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Quite the contrary, there is a surging of interest in helping.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I find it really moving.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm in Los Angeles, so we have not just the national crisis, but a real crisis in our city right now.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one thing to watch it from the outside, but if you're here,
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You really, I can't describe it.
6:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It is an existential crisis and the city is not itself.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It is hollowed out by what's happening.
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's terrifying and so upsetting.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So the point is though, is that what I'm seeing are people saying, okay, I gotta do something.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I do?
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I help people here in LA, but also nationally?
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: People saying, I gotta do something.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What can I do?
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think there is a great deal of fear.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel afraid you'd be in scene not to feel free.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so, but there are two responses to that.
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: There's either I'm going to check out and I'm going to go bury my head in the sand and yeah, there are a lot of people doing that.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, whatever, I get it.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there are all these people who are like, I'm fucking scared.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I am overwhelmed.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm depressed.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sad.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm whatever, but I'm going to keep taking the actions.
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I'm all about.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't know if it's going to be okay.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we're going to get through this.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do know that today we've got to do the stuff.
7:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm very inspired by the people who are doing that regardless.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but yeah, there is a lot of fear.
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like myself, I mean, I think we all do.
8:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, you'd have to be crazy not to, especially people who are putting their names out there and, you know, going against this regime.
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I saw, I don't have the story in front of me, but, you know, you scroll and you see things and you don't remember every detail.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, there is this group of
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're evangelical, but of course, they're like this white male patriarchy thing.
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There's twenty six or twenty two chapters across the United States, they're anti-Semite, they're far right and they're growing quickly.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, one of the fears, I mean, I've heard David Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen talking about
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: are they afraid because they're so prominent and they're speaking against this regime.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And my thing is, I'm not necessarily afraid of the Trump administration coming after my tiny little podcast, but these chapters that are breaking out all of it is not just whatever this one group is, I'm sure there's other groups that are taking it upon themselves to consider themselves militia and go out and do what they think is right.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for people like you and me,
9:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where the real fear comes in.
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I'm just, I don't even like putting it out there, but you see it and how can you not be afraid?
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you kind of go over some of the key things that people are and can do to, because I think the thing is is like, you know, we're afraid and we feel our fear and then once kind of, it's kind of like when you cry, you cry, cry, cry, cry, and then you can't cry anymore.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you kind of either want to do something or just
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Forget about it.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're afraid you're afraid you're afraid and then you just at some point, you might get afraid again, but at some point you're just like, okay, what can I do now?
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sick and tired of being afraid.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is it that people can do?
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that you are looking to get as many progressives elected as possible.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So what can people do?
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, I think that first of all, I want to honor what you said.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm dimly aware of those groups as well, though I try to avoid reading or thinking about them.
10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I can understand.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a matter of like, what do I have control over and what do I not have control over?
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And what is like, I really try to be very like, I curate my news intake.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't want to, if I immerse myself in things that are going to terrify me, I'm going to become incapacitated.
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know there's all kinds of really deeply evil scary stuff happening out there.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I tried to not focus on it too much because the fact of the matter is there are people so much more vulnerable than me and so much more afraid than me.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So as a white woman, especially, I just sort of feel like, yeah, I mean, of course, it's scary that those groups are out there, but like, I have an obligation to act on behalf of communities that are way more targeted than I am.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I think about it.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think that all the things, you know, calling representatives, even just calling representatives to say, especially if you have a Republican lawmaker,
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: it's really important for us to use our voices right now to say you know this is not normal shame on you and to say that every single day and you know because the the fear is this gets normalized and they know damn well that what they're doing is wrong they know their bill was horrible they know that this is all insane and unconstitutional and if we stop seeing it to them though they begin to think like all right right nobody cares anymore so
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really important that we are calling every single election that comes up right now.
11:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to fight to win and win in massive ways and we have one and that's the thing.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to keep reminding people is like every time there's a special election, we're blowing it out of the water.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And while this period is excruciatingly painful,
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We will at some point arrive at the midterms.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And so our job like sometimes I often think of the last of the Mohicans, I don't know if you saw it, but the Daniel Day Lewis scene where he's talking to Madeline Stowe and he says, just stay alive, no matter what occurs, I will find you.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if it all the time because I'm like right now our job is basically to stay alive until the midterms and I know that is a really far way away, but we've got huge elections before then and what happens with those elections really matters because Republicans are paying attention and I know people say, oh, I don't even think we're gonna have midterms next year.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not of that school.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good because I was gonna ask you about that.
12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'll ask him a minute.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think I think we will have midterms next year.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm not like I can't predict the future with a hundred percent certainty, but I do believe that Republicans want to keep running for office as much as Democrats do.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, many, many states are Democrat run.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to not have elections.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I believe that we have to stop saying, oh, there's not going to be elections.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it great?
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That normalizes
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so stop.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like stop saying that.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even believe in putting it out into the universe.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna have midterms.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Republicans are fundraising like we're gonna have midterms.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Trump is amassing a huge more chest for the midterms.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: People on the Republican side are jockying for who's gonna run for what office?
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're having midterms.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but we have huge elections in Virginia this November.
13:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge elections in New Jersey, you know, the New York mayoral, I think is massively important just in terms of like morale and fighting back against the Trumpist threat.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have elections coming up in Arizona, primary elections in a few days.
13:55
[SPEAKER_01]: There's all these elections coming.
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Our job is to
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Find one and volunteer.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's important.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The Virginia elections people are like, oh, I don't care.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't live in Virginia every election.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone.
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Because look what happens when we win an election by twenty five more points than we normally do.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes the news for a week.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all anybody is talking about.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave me.
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Republicans.
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They're paying attention.
14:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Will it stop them completely?
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But every bit we can get them to moderate because they're afraid of what happens in the midterm matters.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, keep getting those elections get involved.
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a feeling we're aligned on this, but I know we are, but I just kind of want you to put your stamp on it and I've been very frustrated lately and I understand where it's coming from, but you know, you see all this doom and you see all these people saying that's it, America's over, you know, obviously we are currently being run by a fascist raising.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the American democracy that we all grew up with and understood.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it over?
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because there are still, we still, like you said, there's elections, the Democrats are winning.
15:12
[SPEAKER_00]: If we were a completely lost as a democracy, that would not be happening.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And the all of the experts say that at the beginning of any kind of autocracy, that's where you're going to get it.
15:25
[SPEAKER_00]: If it starts to cement, okay, well, then it's decades and maybe hundreds of years.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, my pet peeve is that, you know, I mean, I don't like when people put it out there were doomed because you've got one person who feels extremely vulnerable and extremely upset and then they see, you know, some random guy who wherever they live.
15:49
[SPEAKER_00]: posting doom.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that person who's extremely vulnerable is just going to see that and accept it.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe give up.
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just happens with, you know, and even if it's only got like a hundred followers, it doesn't matter.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you could be seen by thousands of people because of impressions.
16:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I sometimes I get yelled at by people because they're like, you need to let us feel our feelings.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, feel your feelings.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Feel all the, I'm afraid too.
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, it's like I put this thing out there like what if Abraham Lincoln had just said, all right, well, that's it America's over.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you know, what if Harriet Tubman said, that's it, you know, all black people are going to be enslaved for the rest of the, you know, time here on
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't, they fought under a very scary circumstances, Alice Paul fought for the right to vote.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just would love for you to talk about why it's so important to understand that we need to work through our fear and use our fear and use whatever we're feeling anger, whatever it is to push us back into a democracy.
16:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're really good at it.
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, or at the very least, not spread do.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what I always, what I wish people would do and what I try to do myself is if I'm feeling scared or like we're doomed, that's fine.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a feeling.
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a fact.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a feeling.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can feel it, but spreading it is really irresponsible.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a responsibility right now.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'll speak for myself.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: to not spread panic, to stay calm, and to not project into the future what I don't know.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're not gonna have midterms.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how the fuck do you know?
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, stop saying that.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So words are very, very powerful.
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we say things like we're doomed, or we're fucked, democracies over, we're not gonna have midterms.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We are empowering those ideas.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We are obeying an advance
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We are giving Trump exactly what he wants.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's what I've been saying.
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, no.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So hope is contagious.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Courage is contagious.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, courage is not not feeling afraid.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Courage is feeling afraid and doing it anyway.
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that is what we are being asked to do right now, a show courage, which means that we can be afraid, but we are going to keep showing up with courage.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: because yes, that is what Harriet Tubman did.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That is what Frederick Douglass did.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That is what basically every black American from the beginning of their time here has done.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, no one who is a black American has ever lived in America where they feel secure.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not trying to speak for black people, but like we have to remember that
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We have lived very privileged, very cushy lives if we are a white American or most Americans.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we are being asked to finally experience what many, many people, millions of people have experienced over the millennia.
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it sucks.
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm a student of history, right?
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've read about empires coming and going, I know that you know,
19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: History is fucking ugly, man.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's horrifying.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you study a place like Ancient Carthage, this massive civilization that was thriving in abundant and like the big power for hundreds and hundreds of years and then just gets wiped out by Rome.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm not suggesting we're going to get wiped out, but we have to have the humility to know that like
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: humans are fucked up, power grabs are fucked up, and like, yeah, America is not a foregone conclusion, but we also, we've lived pretty comfortably and now we're being asked to live very uncomfortably, but not to throw our hands up and give up.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's it.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope so.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I do believe that there is life after Trump, but like we can't just throw our hands up and give up when it gets really hard.
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We just can't.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You can, I'm not going to.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just want to give you a big hug.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I just love you.
20:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be back after this message.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this is Kimberly Real quick.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoy this conversation, please consider going to patreon.com slash start me up.
20:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a look at the different tiers to support the show.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Choose one and be my patron today.
20:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you in advance.
20:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're back.
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I want to ask you
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Talking about the midterms, I believe what you just said, you know, I think we're probably going to have them more than probably because like you said, I mean, it's like the Democrats are going to have them no matter what because they're state run.
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not federally run.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that there's this whole thing of Marshall law, blah, blah, blah, but we're not there.
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's not go there.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I think part of the proof, at least I see it as evidence, maybe proof isn't the right word, but evidence that there will be elections is that the Republicans specifically made it so that these Medicare cuts, a lot of these cuts come after the midterms.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: If they felt like, you know, they would just do it now.
21:01
[SPEAKER_00]: If they felt like we're gonna cancel the elections, we're just gonna cheat so hard.
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, do I think they're gonna cheat?
21:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course I do, they always cheat.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They always do sometimes they're effective.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they're not effective.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They always cheat.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They also always cheat legally with suppression and all of the legislation that they make it much harder for everybody to vote.
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But my question to you is,
21:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to have the midterms, but what we saw in twenty eighteen was a very, very high turnout compared to the twenty fourteen election, which was embarrassingly low, the lowest turnout in eighty years.
21:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And then move to twenty eighteen when Trump was president the first time we had general election turnout.
21:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That was with guardrails.
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we don't have guardrails.
21:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's like super freakish.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what's happening is traumatizing.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, you know, I mean, I think, and I just kind of wanted to ask you about how do you feel about this because obviously they're going to make it harder in twenty twenty we had the benefit of mail invoting because of COVID.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of from from listening to other people talk about the twenty four election that was one of the things.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: that made it more difficult.
22:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But as far as the twenty twenty six midterms, do you think, like, I'm just going to throw in one more thing, Rachel Bedakoffer when this, you know, when this all started in, you know, the election, she was fully doomed.
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, that's it.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to have any election again.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The country's over.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a couple, I don't know, a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago, she said, well, you know, I predicted in twenty eighteen, the Democrats were going to take the house by this number.
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm making that prediction again, and it'll probably be a bigger number.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's gotten off of that hole.
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to survive this into we're going to freaking win the election so big.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So where are you on this?
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're gonna, it's gonna be out.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going, we're going to crush them.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And they know, I mean, I don't know that.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think there's anybody who has any doubt about that.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you just, just looking at what's happened so far in every election.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then looking at Trump's approval ratings are low, they started out low.
23:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like people were like, oh, we came in with a high approval rating.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, for him, but not particularly high.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, like remember, this guy barely got elected to begin with.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He keeps saying it was landslide.
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not at all.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, his approval ratings are plummeting even on his approval rating.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I just read yesterday from GLE at Morris, lower on deportations now than it even is on inflation in the economy.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's low on inflation in the economy.
23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: people are not happy with what is happening right now.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So they've got their, you know, fucking power grab right now and their ice money, but like at some point they have to face the voters over this.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And voters are not happy and on top of that, the economy sucks and is going to suck so much harder in a year.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something I will predict.
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be in a fucking recession by next year.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: There's almost no way that is not the case when you are deporting our entire force.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Not our entire workforce, but you know, significant part of our workforce.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did a deep dive.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a bit of a digression, but right for the election, I did a very deep dive video, which turned out to be one of my most viral videos that it time ever about the economic costs of mass deportation because I had been at a webinar.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: about it and it taken notes made this video, it's, it's can devastate us economically like it's going to devastate us.
24:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is predicted our GDP is going to shrink taxes are going to come way down because immigrants pay a huge amount of taxes whether or not they're recommended all this stuff.
24:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be in worse economic shape in a year than we are now.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Republicans will have had sicknesses because of no food inspections, likely more plane crashes, no FEMA, more catastrophic weather events.
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on a fucking downward trajectory here that is going to get very ugly.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that we are going to, we're going to destroy it.
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's going to be a brutal massacre of a midterm for Republicans.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost, there's almost no conceivable universe to me in which that is not the case.
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And they know it.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they're trying to get everything in now.
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to do another reconciliation bill almost right away because they know that after the midterms, they're done.
25:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They're, they're lame duck.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: as much as, like, that this, I mean, he said just said, it's like horrifying, hopeful, horrifying, hopeful.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just, that's where we are.
25:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every day, every day, it's so terrifying.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I want to ask you about this.
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing, you know, Keith, I've been watching, you know, watch YouTube all the time.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I watched a David Pakman thing, and then, you know, that leads me to Keith Edwards, which leads me to the next to the next of the next.
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been getting a lot of these shows that I've been, you know, I, I have to see that, I have to see that.
26:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So both Keith, Keith Edwards and David Pakman right now are focusing on the fact that, uh, mega, it's very, very upset over the fact there's no absteen list.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and so,
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this is necessarily in your wheelhouse, but I'm just curious as to what you think because I look at, I mean, I remember when Elon Musk fought Twitter, I was just devastated.
26:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew Twitter was going to hell.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I hated him.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know why I hated him.
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I knew at that time because other people I knew didn't think it was going to be that bad.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're like, oh, yeah, okay, it's that bad.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's this few between them and it started prior to the bill.
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think it was Musk was threatening.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know he said that Trump was on the absteen list.
26:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that he said he was going to release it.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But then that all kind of quieted until the bill.
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we see the oligarchs are fighting again.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's talk of maybe he's going to deport Elon and Elon is now starting this third party.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I want to ask you about.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know if he's actually going to do it, right?
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's just all talk.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a few people out there on social media that I see are mistaken and think that that means he's going to run for the president.
27:25
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Elon Musk can't and won't run for the president.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the beginning of this new party.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is my belief.
27:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw, I think it was David Pakman, yes, who actually said the same thing.
27:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And it made me feel good because I feel like the America party
27:39
[SPEAKER_00]: would challenge republicans and I don't know if you saw this but Rick Wilson did an open letter to Elon Musk on his sub stack right after and you know was in June when Elon was toying with this idea of a third party and he was like okay if you want to do it it's really really hard
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But you've got the money and you could just go into a few because basically we're talking about destroying Republicans here.
28:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to do.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So you go into, you know, like, ten states, you put up all these candidates and you fuck with the Republicans.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you think that's what's going to happen because I know that there is some fear that if there is indeed a third party and I know this is all if, but if there is indeed a third party, maybe there's going to be some Democrats that go that way because people who voted
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: for Obama voted for Trump.
28:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
28:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Like does this third party fuck everybody?
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it just fuck the Republicans how it if it gets going?
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, so again, one of my personal credos is to not.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: stress out about things that haven't happened yet.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so let's see if he starts this party.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that there's very little chance that that's anything but a giant money suck for him.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's not a totally stupid man.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he is very, you know, he's got some really baffling behaviors.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if he actually does it.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and he and Trump go back and forth fighting and then realizing that they shouldn't fight.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So who then those?
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the upstream thing, however,
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: is really interesting.
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so flabbergasted that Trump voters are this is the hill they want to die on like this is the thing they're so upset about I'm like I've all my thought about making a video just is it can they not see that Trump is obviously on the Epstein list is this a giant is this a giant blind spot for them is they are they really really not able to see that it is so
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking to my husband about it because I don't really pay attention to stuff like this.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, I was like, do they?
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So the reason for wanting to see it, I assume is because they think Democrats are on it.
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
29:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Clint.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're sure.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe he might be on it.
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was surprised at Bill Clinton wanted, but I'm like, are they actually not, like,
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm just curious how big their blind spot is.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because they're all, it seems like they're really freaking out and they're really not going to look at them, which is great.
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's great.
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let it go.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, do they not understand the Trump is on it?
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, I don't get it.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird to me.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Jeffrey Epstein literally has said that Trump was his best friend.
30:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're still like.
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And they still don't want to do it.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't get it, but I'm like, go, anything that divides them, I think is.
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is actually giving the Trump administration a headache.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think there are all kinds of other things should be giving them a headache, but this is actually giving them one and anything that gives them headache.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I am all for so.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean what the fuck there is a folder there isn't a folder like yeah even I I'm not a conspir like I'm not interested in things that are conspiracy ish yeah, but even I was like oh come on what the fuck Well, and I see I see Emon and Trump kind of like
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think their fight in their fields while they may look and feel superficial and stupid and I get why people would not necessarily want to follow it all.
31:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think it's impacting us in some way and it's all negative because when you have these oligarchs fighting, I mean although although I'll say that but on the swing like for instance, if Elon does start this up and I know it's a hypothetical it might actually benefit Democrats and it's not it wouldn't be his goal.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know, I guess his goal would to say, fuck you, to the Republicans, I don't know.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing that I don't understand about the absteen list is, since Donald Trump and his regime have control of everything,
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't they just put out their own list and say, here's the list.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What stops them from doing that?
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good point.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't get what say, here's both Clinton was on the list.
31:55
[SPEAKER_00]: They could just fake it.
31:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
31:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything they want.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting to me that they're choosing to now go, oh, there's no what list.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The list that Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi were going on and on and on and on and on about for months before the election.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to find these pedophiles and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: As far okay now so we've got this possible riff with the abstine and I don't know because you know there's a couple of people like for I don't know if you're familiar with chicks on the right and you're probably you probably not but they're horrible and be and I used to follow them because they would write horrible articles about me so I'd always like watch what they said and they initially hated Trump.
33:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But then of course, just like my mega relative who initially hated Trump, now things Trump's the greatest guy in the whole world, or at least says he is.
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I'm concerned about because it's like, is it eventually going to get to, you know, making excuses for Trump and the absteen list, are they going eventually going to be okay with it?
33:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like what would break them?
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, JD Advanced was on camera in twenty seventeen saying that the way that Trump is going to lose his support is through cutting insurance health insurance.
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so as, you know, you pointed out in a video, you did this great video where you talked about when all of the provisions in that big brutal bill are going to start, you know, when the timing is on them.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And so much of the timing, like we were saying, is after the midterms, forgetting my point here.
33:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What was I saying?
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, when I forget my point, what your question is what is going to get these people to please?
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thank you.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it.
34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: My belief is likely in many of their cases, nothing.
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you do see like Trump voters drip away from him, but I have never been a believer in trying to peel those voters back.
34:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't, I think at this point it's clear they're not gonna be peeled.
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, you know, culture really powerful.
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that, you know, some will be peeled away by nasty partitions.
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe Rogan seems to be like, oh my God, well, I didn't vote for this.
34:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You fucking did, but whatever.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have always been, look, they represent about what, thirty-five percent of the population give or take of the voting population.
34:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've just always felt like, well, we had ninety million people who didn't vote in the presidential elections.
34:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's just get a few million of them to vote.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish we could change Trump voters' minds.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not optimistic that that's going to happen.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I don't ever try.
34:58
[SPEAKER_01]: to debate Trump voters are, it's useless.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't, there's no, they are divorced from reason.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually really are like, and would would say it themselves.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't believe in facts.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't believe in reason.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I don't, there's no point to me.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people in this country who are good decent people who just have
35:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, opted out of politics for whatever reason.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And those people, I think are very quickly seeing like, oh, shit.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This is really going to fuck me up.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But I should have paid more attention.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I like to think that maybe if we get through this alive, the thing that hopefully some people take away from it at least is you cannot say, I don't do politics.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no reality to that statement.
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You can ignore politics.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The politics is doing you every fucking day in every way and if it's doing you in a good way, you're not aware of it because it's just doing its job.
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's making sure your food is safe to eat.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's making sure your air and water are clean and drinkable.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's making sure you are protected from predatory banks.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's doing all that stuff and you don't notice it because it's doing it.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're going to lose all of that shit.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And my hope is that people will go, oh, wow, I really wish I had been more grateful for what I had when I had it.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And next time I'm not going to take it for granted.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my hope.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, stupid humans.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We always have to touch the fire always.
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, do all humans have to.
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to be a particularly it's a really American.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Americans were were fucking entitled and we you know it's a not everybody but and part of it is human nature you don't always appreciate things until they're gone but I have been banging my head against wall every time I phone bank every time I canvas I get at least one person who's like yeah I just don't do politics and you just want to you want to shake them I mean it's really
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And now those are the people who will be losing their Medicaid or losing their, you know, what?
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they'll just say both sides of the same.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And they, well, and then they say that.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people do.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I saw a video a couple days ago that just blew my mind.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, I might have talked about this on our podcast, but it was like a CBS news about a woman in David Valdeos district, elderly Latino woman with a disabled child who is about to lose her Medicaid.
37:20
[SPEAKER_01]: She voted for Trump.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you see it?
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then at the end, who would you vote for now?
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wouldn't vote.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw her.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: She killed that.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know.
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Will there's an Armenian woman right now in she's being detained and she still supports Trump.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the thing.
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you just, you can't, like that's what I'm saying.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of these people
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: you literally could tell them we are going to execute you and they'd be like, okay, I still think that Trump knows what he's doing.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So sure, take my head and I still love him.
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is insanity and that's called behavior and that's like we have to accept that that's what a large portion of these people are.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also, I think people who are filled with self hatred.
38:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is the one universal trait of Trump voters.
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: These are people who really hate themselves.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and have had a lot of them, I think, really terrible childhoods.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of abused people.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, they're just going to do what they're going to do.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel sorry for them in a way, but I also feel like we have to kind of rebuild and re gather without them.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like after the Civil War, there were certain, you know, many confederates who were just like, I'm still die hard believer in slavery.
38:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, well, we're leaving you behind.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, usually state rights.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we did not necessarily do a good enough job of making sure that situation got healed up properly.
38:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we are where we are.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the last thing I want to talk about is, you know, in your bio, you are helping elect it, getting more progressives elected.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so right now, you know, my dad is very much a nineties Democrat.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And even he can see.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: that our party is just kind of flailing around.
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've got some real superstars.
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got some big, big personalities like Jasmine Crockett, AOC, Chris Murphy, even though sometimes he gets on my nerves with the destruction thing, but he's out there talking.
39:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a whole bunch of them, and I'm just gonna miss them.
39:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But we all know who we're seeing.
39:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there is the old guard Democrats,
39:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Chuck Schumer being one of them who wants to write the stern letters and have the stern words and nothing backing it up and a lot of people feel like we need new leadership.
39:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I feel is
39:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not seeing from the Democratic Party and we can't count on legacy and corporate media for this.
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't count on the Supreme Court.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But with the Democratic Party, I would like to see more of and I just want to preface this with I am a Democrat.
40:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I support the Democrats.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But I see flaws and the flaws.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: make me feel concerned.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like, you know, you're the point to twenty twenty six where we can just blow this out of the water because it's based on all the horrible stuff.
40:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Democrats always say, oh, we like to run on hope.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope is great.
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But you got to be motivated, because if you're comfortable, people won't vote.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you were saying everything just works.
40:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even understand why they're getting clean food.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even question it.
40:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't pay attention.
40:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wish that we could see a more united front from the Democrats all the way from comp trollers, all the way up to the very top.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what they would have to do, but something that would tell the American people and all the other countries on this planet.
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we're fighting and we're not backing down, but we're not seeing that all the time.
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We did see at least they didn't vote for the bill, but we see them confirm nominations.
41:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not seeing the obstruction that Republicans are famous for when Democrats have the power.
41:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Democrats aren't doing it.
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a setting to me and I guess my question is like, what are you doing and then what can we do to get more progressive lawmakers elected?
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, well, many things I want to say about that.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, we're not seeing much of it.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We have started to see some of it, which should have started right away.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
41:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And it should be across the board.
41:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're still, I still am writing call scripts for my newsletter to just tell Democratic lawmakers like agree with nothing, like the, for nothing obstruct everything.
41:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what they should all be doing all the time.
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're, you know, in a moment of crisis with the Democratic Party right now.
41:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also a Democrat.
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an elected member of, I'm a delegate to the State Party here in California.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, and that is the least favorite part of what I do, but I do it because if we see that ground to these old school like machine politicians.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: were never the party will never change.
42:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I fucking hate it.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate it.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like the meetings.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like any of it.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But I ran for a second term because I was like, you know, if my spot will be filled by somebody who's like, yes, you know, let's keep taking oil and gas donations.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I'm talking to.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like a place, so I'm like a progressive placeholder basically.
42:31
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I try to do a little bit more than that.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been saying, not that my voice matters all that much, but everywhere publicly I can say that until the Democrat party replaces its leadership, we are going to be in a very challenged place that Hakim Jeffries and Chuck Schumer are ineffective for this moment.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody agrees they're ineffective.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: The polling shows that what, twenty five percent of Democrats like what they're doing.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody wants new leadership.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I've said, when a corporation is flailing, when it's sales or down, when it's brand is toxic, it fires everybody at the top and gets new leadership.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And until Democrats are willing to do that and see that, I think we're going to continue having these problems.
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I am also not super psyched about the DNC and I'm going to be oblique in saying that
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just leave it at they had the chance to put Ben Wickler at the top of the party and they didn't and that's the most insane thing I've ever seen in my life.
43:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't fucking believe it every day.
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to, I don't can Martin, you know, the jury's out, but like Ben Whickler is a genius.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's Wisconsin, right?
43:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He was Wisconsin.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the chair of the state party until this week.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He actually, it's a hate, he resigned and now someone is replacing him who I hear is good, but
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben is a once-in-a-lifetime officer.
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so I'm still getting over the fact that they saw fit to elect someone other than him.
44:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like getting that, who's that, the guy on the Dodgers who's like the best baseball player of all time.
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't follow sports.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But Japan, I think, oh, God, I'm embarrassed anyway.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like getting the opportunity to draft him and passing him up for the next.
44:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
44:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I mean, I mean.
44:24
[SPEAKER_01]: so and this is like the larger problem is like they keep making decisions like that and you're just like what is the matter with you so I am I do we have huge problems but again having said that yes we also need to somehow find a way to stay united in the midst of all of that because what we're fighting is so much bigger and so much more dangerous so I think we have to do two things at once we have to say like god damn our party is still pretty broken
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, like we, we are in the middle of I think this identity crisis, which I hope will be resolved in the favor of people like Zauron, Mom, Donnie and Jasmine Crocodone, AOC and Maxwell Frost and all the great people coming up.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But right now the old guard is still hanging on.
45:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, if you're a student of history, you know that once you are in a position of power, almost no one lets that go voluntarily.
45:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the Chuck Schumer will need to be primary in order to be gotten out.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hate to say it, but I hope it happens because I think he's a nice guy and an effective lawmaker in some ways and probably for normal moments would be fine, but for this moment he's not fine.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to remind people that
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, you know, I mean, we all look to our leaders, right, to take care of business.
45:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if our leaders, if we're not happy with leadership, then who does the responsibility fall on it falls on us?
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And it falls, you know, I mean, the thing that
45:49
[SPEAKER_00]: drives me crazy.
45:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I am the person who did not.
45:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't the person who said, I don't pay attention to politics.
45:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't pay attention.
45:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, I didn't.
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: My mother was always paying attention.
46:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was always talking about it.
46:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always voted.
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew she knew what she was talking about.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wasn't following politics.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I really didn't start following until the two thousands.
46:11
[SPEAKER_00]: or two thousand I should say with the hanging Chad fiasco that got my attention and then I became more interested every year and of course I'm a complete junkie but I'm not somebody who study politics or anything like that but what I you know looking at how this is all going I feel like
46:32
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I say this?
46:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's up to the people, right?
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's up to you.
46:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's up to me to get on our leaders and you want to, you know, you're writing scripts.
46:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So please, please, please follow Jess on Substack because she is going to give you
46:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that you can say to people, or at the very least, she's going to inform you of the people who need to be pushed and nudged.
46:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like to always remind if you're going to call no matter if it's a Republican or a Democrat.
47:01
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're angry, just don't act angry.
47:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You can say shame on you.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You can judge, you can have a him out there, but be civil, but it's up to us.
47:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And it drives me nuts that it's like every year there's an election every year there's multiple elections and we just ignore them.
47:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we go, oh, it's all the leaders fault.
47:27
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they work for you.
47:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to be the ones if they're failing.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you don't just go hands up in the air, we're fucked and we're over.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's put some pressure.
47:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see this lovingly, right?
47:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the Democrats, there is no both parties are the same bullshit.
47:44
[SPEAKER_00]: There's one party that wants to help you and one party that wants to hurt you.
47:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And while the Democrats are not perfect, it's evident.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Kamala Harris wanted to give everybody twenty five thousand dollars for the first time homeowners, not everybody, but you don't need to.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, Democrats gave you good health care.
48:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We could have better, but the Republicans won't let us.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I just, you know, it's so important for me to tell people, don't just put all of the power in the leaders hands, recognize that you have power.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last thing I'm gonna say on this, and then I'm gonna ask you what we have to be hopeful about, and that'll be it.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But, is remember that, you know,
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: There are always going to be problems.
48:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We're always going to be faced with things that we have to deal with, and that concern us, and we have a choice.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We can look at it and say, oh my God, this is awful, and this is going to happen, and that's going to happen, and this is important to be informed and understand how is it going to play?
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: How is this bill going to play out, and all of that?
48:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But rather than jump down that rabbit hole of how everything is going to fail.
48:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, project onto what he's having hasn't even happened yet.
48:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really trying to encourage people to put your focus.
49:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I wanted to have you on, put your focus on what the solution is.
49:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can spend your time putting your focus on how everything can go wrong.
49:11
[SPEAKER_00]: or how we can fix it or make it easier.
49:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why wanted to have you on because you're a helper.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a person who shows people how to put the focus on what we can do.
49:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helps when we're doing that.
49:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes us feel more empowered as opposed to feeling like victims and feeling like, you know, because it's, that's contagious as well.
49:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hope is contagious optimism is contagious.
49:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So is defeat.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I mean, I, I, I feel like I'm kissing your ass and I say this to a bunch of my guests, but I invite people on my show who I admire and I feel like are doing really good work.
49:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm being genuine when I'm kissing your ass.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's important for people to recognize that we have a choice in our reaction.
50:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we might initially feel the fear and I'm not telling anyone not to fear the fear or to pretend things are different, but it's like, okay, well, what can we do as opposed to, oh, no, let's just all give up.
50:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mean, and again, that's why
50:17
[SPEAKER_00]: follow Jess, listen to the practice pod.
50:20
[SPEAKER_00]: These things are extremely important and the more we feel empowered, the more power we have.
50:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's contagious and your friend is going to pick up on it when you're talking about it.
50:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I'm done on my soap box here, but I do want to end this with feel free to add whatever you want and what do we have to be hopeful about?
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, and I agree with everything you just said.
50:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
50:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't feel like you were pissing my ass.
50:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That was very misleading, but maybe I should have felt that way.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, but I agree.
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important to remember, and I've heard Senator Warnock talk about this and many others, of course, that
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Black Americans, for example, they have almost never had leadership government helping them.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they sat back and said, oh, well, like the president isn't or like our leaders aren't doing this for us, there would have been no civil rights movement.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they, that was them.
51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That was regular Americans.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And as, you know, many Heather Cox Richardson has pointed this out like most
51:26
[SPEAKER_01]: major change in this country has been one hundred percent generated by grassroots movements, whether it's for disability rights, whether it's for voting rights for women, for civil rights and voting rights for black Americans, farm workers, all its people.
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially our government, the way it is created, the way it's set up, it is inherently resistant to change.
51:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is people who go out and say, no, I'm going to fucking change this.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We will change this even if it takes fifty years.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And in many cases, it does.
52:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I want the Democratic Party to be better, but even if we had AOC, a speaker of the House and Chris Murphy as Senate Majority Leader, it would change some things, but ultimately, we would still need to do what we're doing.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd still need to be calling the representatives boycotting bad companies, which by the way, we should all be doing.
52:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like boycotting is a very powerful tool right now.
52:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Boycott Home Depot.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Boycott Amazon.
52:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Boycott Target.
52:32
[SPEAKER_01]: These things matter.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a few things we have right now is our purchasing power.
52:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So please use it widely.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Boycott fucking Florida.
52:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sorry if you live in Florida, but like I really hope people do not voluntarily travel there right now and give them their tourist dollars.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: any reds take really, I'm sorry to say that, but like shit, we only have so many ways to use our leverage.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever, I'm not calling for a boycott of red states, but Florida with the concentration camp.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And what Ron dissent is talking about using people there to work in the fields like that?
53:05
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that is, so anyway, we have to use the power that we have.
53:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is true.
53:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds bleak, but it can also be a sort of a hopeful and empowering thing to say that no one is coming to save us.
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We are going to save ourselves.
53:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we have done that, we are going to, that is a hugely heroic historic amazing thing to do.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That is what we get to do with our lifetimes.
53:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't choose it, but it's what we get to do.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, and I promise I'll close with this.
53:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The chances of us being here at all.
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Any single one of us, having made it through the evolutionary chain, all of our ancestors surviving long enough to pass on to the next generation, to the next generation, we are the egg that got chosen of all the, whatever it's, I guess, I don't know.
53:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here, like the chances of any one of us being here are infinitesimal.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are here to have this life.
53:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We have been given an opportunity to make an impact bigger, small.
54:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I encourage everybody to use it to know that you are a fucking miracle.
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Just your existence.
54:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that you are born right now in this moment is it's an opportunity.
54:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably not an accident in the grand scheme of things.
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You're here.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make a difference.
54:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you think that one living creature cannot make a massive difference, ask a mosquito.
54:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
54:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not an original saying.
54:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That comes from somewhere.
54:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember it from where, but like we can each make a huge difference in this world.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Know that, realize your power and use it.
54:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And if all of us do that, even if it's just each of us in a small way, we can move mountains together.
54:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's what gives me hope.
54:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that's exactly why I had you on the show and why I read your sub-stat.
54:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So before I let you go, please tell everyone where to find you.
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though you can already have.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's yeah.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: My sub stack is called chopwood carry water daily actions.
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you just search a chopwood carry water sub stack, it should come right up.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am at just craving one-on-one on pretty much all social media platforms.
55:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not on Twitter because I have a trans kid.
55:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just I had that as a platform I had to get off of.
55:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I respect many, many people are on it, and that's fine.
55:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not fair.
55:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm on Blue Skythreads, everything else, Instagram, TikTok at Just Craven-One-O-One, and the podcast is called The Practice Pod, and it comes out every Thursday morning.
55:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I feel free to come on over and join our team.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going every day.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please do.
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Steve is also awesome.
55:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been in Gaston this show many times.
55:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Jess, it was awesome meeting you and talking to you.
55:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for everything you do and I hope to have you back at some point.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Kimberly, it was so fun talking to you too.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You are amazing and I thank you to your audience for listening to the end here and thank you all for everything that you have done that you are doing and for all that you're going to do because I know it's a lot.
55:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you.
55:58
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, we'll talk soon.