Latest / The Late Debate / The Late Debate | 5 August

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The Late Debate | 5 August · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome wait to babes.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us. Great to have your company. I'm
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: James MacPerson with the Nika to Georgio and Caleb Bond
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: and far from worrying about politicians behaving stupidly on social media, Paul,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: We're just worried about your voice.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Mom.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I thought there was a rather optimistic
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: when he said I'll be doing it again tomorrow night.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: But anyway, if anyone can pull through it, it'll be Paul. Probably.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: He'll go home, you know, have a swing of valveleene,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and he'll be back right as random morrow.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: He'll be fine.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: That's right, That's it, all right, let's get stuck into
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the program.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Is what's coming up tonight?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Childless couples are increasingly preferring fur babies to actual babies,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: pushing their dogs in prams, giving their cat's birthday parties.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Is it a harmless affection or does it say something
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: concerning about the culture? Students being encouraged to skip school
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: to attend protest rallies against Pauline Hanson. Whatever one's view
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: of one nation, is this something that should be tolerated?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: And the Gold Coast Church says worshippers should use whichever
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: bathroom matches their feelings. Hospitality is a Christian virtue, but
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: is confusion.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: We'll get to all of.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: That shortly first, though, Remember Swan's player Adam Goods, the
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: brilliant AFL forward who generated as much applause for his
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: goals as booing for his propensity to play for free kicks.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Sydney fans adored Adam Goods. Everyone else not so much.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: When the media declared the booing was driven by.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Racism because Goods was Indigenous.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Well, the booing got louder.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Fans who objected to his on field antics also objected
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to being branded bigots. Goods, for his part, only poured
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: fuel on the fire good mark to Goods. Adam Goods
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: retired from the game, convinced he'd been the target of
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: a racist campaign, which brings us to former Swan's coach
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: John Longmeyer. In his new book, parts of which were
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: released today, he says he wishes he'd threatened to march
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: his team off the ground if the booing continued. He wrote,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, I should have threatened to pull our players
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: off the ground if the booing didn't stop. It might
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: not have changed anything, but it would have brought the
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: matter to a head and forced the industry and the
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: community to consider what this continued behavior was doing to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: one of the game's greats. It would have been an
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: extreme act, but then what was happening to Adam was
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: extreme too. Unfortunately, there were no guarantees anything would change. Honestly,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I'm shocked that John Lonmyer seriously thinks that would have
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: been helpful. In my view, the booing was overwhelmingly about
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Goods on field antics rather than his skin color, other
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Indigenous players that he bets, Lance Franklin, Daniel Wells, and
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: we could go on, well, they weren't booed, only Adam Goods.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And yet here we are a decade later, still being
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: told the whole thing was racism.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Indeed, And I mean, look, you would have thought they'd
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: have gotten over it by now, but clearly John Longmire
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: is still thinking about it and thinks it's worth his
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: time addressing it, and so we find ourselves you're addressing
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: it tonight, of course, But all of this went back
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to well, there were two major things that happened, of course.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: One of them was he became Australian of the Year,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: which he then used as a platform to kind of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: talk about how he thought Australia was a racist country
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and certainly that certain people within it were racist, and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: people took great exception to that. But what precipitated all
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of that was an incident twelve or thirteen years ago
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: where there was a thirteen year old girl in the
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: crowd of a Swans match who called him an eight.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: She shouted out him that he was an ape. Now,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: undoubtedly that is generally a racist remark, but as you
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: can see here, he goes up to the sideline and
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: points that girl out directly. The security then come and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: take her away. She didn't have a parent or anything
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to go with her. She was incredibly distressed. I think
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: in that case it was her grandmother ended up having
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: to stay until after midnight and then drive her back
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: to Gippsland, two hours out of Melbourne where they lived,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: after she'd been through three hours of questioning over this.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Right now, she was a thirteen year old girl. Of
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: course you don't call someone an ape, it's pretty damn obvious.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: But she made a mistake. Adam Goods would have seen
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: that it was a thirteen year old girl, but he
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: made a point of her right, and he said following
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: that incident, racism had a face, and it was a
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl. And I think that really inflamed
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: people as well, because people are quite willing to say, yeah,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: that was a racist remark, it shouldn't have been made.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: But when it turned into a thirteen year old girl
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: who made a mistake, and are you really telling me
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: that thirteen year olds are generally racist? You know she's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: either heard it somewhere and repeated it. She called up
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Adam Goods and apologized and said that she'd heard other
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: people in the crowd saying it and she joined in
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: on it right, So she was the one who ended
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: up taking the fall for it, a thirteen year old girl.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: It was just a litany of things that just put
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: people off side with Adam Goods. No one would have
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: disagreed with the idea that there are racist people. No
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: one would have disagreed with the idea that Adam Goods,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: as an Indigenous man, has probably faced racism in his life.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: What people took exception to was that basically being broadened
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: out to everybody, and they took what is really the
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: only option they have as a spectator in a footy match,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and that is to boo him and to keep extrapolating
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that out into oh, this was some great racist thing.
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, come on, well, it's quite offensive, to be honest,
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: John Longmeyer said. He said that he remains shattered that
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: so many media figures and members of the public chose
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: to think the worst of Goods when he had been
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: so selfless in his contribution to the game.
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: Fine, I would agree with that.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: I think that Goods did make a selfless contribution to
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: the game.
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: He was a great player.
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: Great The problem is is that Adam Goods made this
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: all about himself, and he turned it around and made
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: himself the perpetual victim because if you remember, at one
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: point he even had to take racism leave. He even
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: took a leave of absence because he was dealing with it.
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: And in that time all we heard from was how
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: upset and angry.
• 6:40
  Speaker 6: He is about the booing. The constant booing.
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: Now, I would argue that all players in every sporting
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: code also get boot This wasn't just an Adam Goods
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: once off.
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: Everybody gets booed.
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: I would ask you to have you booed a player
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: before I've booted people I've booted people when I've been
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: in the crowds.
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: I think that's just what you truly do.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: I'm a nor Melbourne supporter.
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: Own you boo your own team, but it comes with
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: the territory. It's just the nature of a sporting match. Now,
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: whether that's right or wrong, who cares. The point is,
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: go out there and play. Don't make it all about yourself.
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: Stop being the perpetual victim because.
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: People get tired of it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: And for John Longmeyer to now dredge this up that
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: all players should have had a mass walkout on the field,
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but what are you a bunch of whimps?
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: Well you're going to just do you seriously think that
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: that is the way to handle problems go out and
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: do a mass walkout?
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: Give me a break.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: It would have inflamed the situation. And this is the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: thing that I find so bizarre about it. Adam Goods
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: knew what he was doing there. It was an antagonistic move.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Just owned it. It's antagonist. It's the theater of the.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: Football morally pontificated when he did his war dance that
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: that was deliberate. He brought idology into the game. He
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: was provoking the crowd, and he was provoking it, and
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: then he went and claimed the victim.
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: And that's what angers me the most.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: With regard that war dance. He then claimed I wasn't
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: provoking the crowd. That was a legitimate Indigenous celebration of
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: a goal. The fact he was doing it to Carlton supporters, though,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: would suggest it was provocative. The thing about booing, right
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: is if you boo, how do I know the motive
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: behind your boo because there's there's no words. So how
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: can I impute racism when you could be booing about
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: you know, a dozen different things. Like you said, undoubtedly
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: there's some racists at the footy everywhere.
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: There's racist anywhere.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: John Longmi had had to stop the game, marched the
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: players off in the middle of the game. I mean, basically,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: you are pointing at forty thousand people and calling them
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: all racists on the basis of a noise they're making
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: that could be about any number.
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: But this is what also really bothers me. It's a
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: less playbook. This is always out.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: They always play the racism card. That it becomes almost
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: like the boy that who cried Wolf. Because I don't
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: disagree that there are instances of racism. I'm not denying that,
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: But how many times do we always hear what it's racist?
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: It's racist, it's racist, but it almost diminishes its meanings.
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: So when there is genuine racism, people I don't think
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: they take it as seriously as what it should be
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: because it's just constantly And again I'm not denying that there.
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, he was the victim of a
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: racist attack, I get it, But the fact that we
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: heard about it for years after and now John Longmire
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: feels the need to dredge it all up again.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: Move on, one more quick thing.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: It'd be great to remember Adam Goods as a phenomenal
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: AFL football because he was incredibly gifted. It's just a
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: pity he's not remembered for that, rather than he's forever
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: remembered for the booing and people being accused of racist.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Indeed, and I mean you talk about racism, the words
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: sort of having its value diminished. Something else that seems
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: to be having its value diminished in society these days.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: His children, we're having fewer of them than we ever have.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, in Australia now, the fertility rate is one
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: point four eight children per woman. Now, look, I feel
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: very sorry for that point four to eight of a child.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: They didn't even make it to half a child. But
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: that is an average number, of course. So what are
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: people doing now that they're not having children? Well, the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: evidence would seem to suggest that they're buying pets instead.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: There was a recent study found that the spending on
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: pet related products in Australia has increased now to twenty
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: one point three billion dollars a year. This is a
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: massive industry, people spending shed loads of money on pets
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: and why is this Well, according to one woman who
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: was interviewed by the News papers, she says, well, I've
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: got a dog because I can't afford to have a child. Effectively,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the dog is filling the role of what a child
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: would be in my life. And I don't think she's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the only one making this decision. Surranda Biba is quoted
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: saying I can barely live off what I'm making myself,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: let alone trying to support a baby that can't do anything.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And then she talks about her dog Milo and who
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: she does all sorts of things for. She says, I
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: dress him up, I buy him treats whenever I go shopping,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I bring him home a present. I say to everyone,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: he's my child. The dog has effectively, in her life
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: become the child. And she readily admits I couldn't afford
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to have the real thing. I mean, she's doing all
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: sorts of stuff. She buys a puffer vests for the dog.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: The dog gets to go around in a pram, like genuinely,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: this dog is being treated like it we're a child.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Apparently he has traveled with anxiety, and so there's some
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: sort of like a toy for the dog that imitates
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a heartbeat, so if she's not there, the dog feels like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you know, there's someone there, like this is Jenny. The
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: dog is being treated. The dog is genuinely being treated
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: as a child. Now you say it's cute, I do.
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: I think that's so sweet.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And look, I think loving pets and having pets is
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a wonderful thing. They're a wonderful part of your family.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: But it worries me that pets are now becoming a
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: substitute for children. I mean, you've got people like this
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: woman readily saying I can't afford to have kids, so
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have a dog instead. And I think
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that's really sad. And I mean she's obviously living on
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: her own. But there are couples in this situation as well.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: They go, oh, well, you know, I don't own a house,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I don't own anything whatever. I'll just get a dog.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, you look at the fertility rate which is
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: in the toilet. People are actively choosing not to have
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: children now. But what they're finding is even though they're
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: making that decision not to have children, that they still
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: have a yearning for something in that child shaped hole.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: And so they are having a dog or whatever.
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: They're by yourself with cats y, so cats feel avoid
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: for you.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: But hang on a minute.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: It's not calling it his.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: They're not my children, son. They're not my children who
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: go around in prams wearing puffer vists, who require toys
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they don't have separation anyth It
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: is there, my pit. What I'm talking about.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: You adore your pets. Now, there are anthing wrong out there.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: There are some couples, whether you live by yourself or
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: whether you are a couple who one cannot have children,
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: which is absolutely devastating.
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: So you do substitute with a pet.
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: And I can completely understand that that you're looking for that,
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: you're yearning for something in your life, and a pet
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: does become the next best thing if you are unable
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: to fell pregnant. Secondly, there are some couples who don't
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: want kids. That is their decision. That's not for me
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: to judge. If you don't want kids and you would
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: rather have an animal, then again that doesn't bother me.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Now I see at my local park, I see actually
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: a lot of dogs in prams.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: What parking?
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm not going to say, because.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: I don't want peyone know where early, but I see
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: a lot of dogs in prams and they're probably, I
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: would say, people in their fifties to sixties, so maybe
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: they've already had children.
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: But they are adorable, these dogs. And they're dressed up
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: to the nines. They've got the bows in their hair,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: they're freshly shaved, they just look gorgeous. Why not if
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: it brings you happiness in your life, If it brings
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: you joy, who am I to sit here and judge
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: another person's decision by how they want us to live
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: their life.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Here's why I don't like this.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: It might be cute and sweet, but it diminishes human exceptionism.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So what it does is it elevates animals to, Oh,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: my dog is my baby. I've chosen not to have children.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: I've got a cat instead. So it raises animals to
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: a place they ought not be, and it diminishes children
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: to be interchangeable with a dog or a cat.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Healthy for society by all means. You know, if you
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: want an animal for companionship, that's a valid thing, nothing
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: wrong with it. But we're talking about people who have
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: gone well beyond my animal is a substitute companion to
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I boast that my dog or my cat is my baby.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, some of these people in this article, they're
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: having birthday parties for their what's wrong with it?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It's not dog's birthday, Nikki. You hang out with some
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: odd people.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: They have a cake. What does a dog a cake?
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: And then we had on the dog that the dog
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: wore a little party hat.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: But the thing is that all this, so all of
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: this can be very whimsical and fun and whatever. My
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: issue is not that people love their pets. I love
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: my pets. My issue is that they are becoming a
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: substitute for children, and that people are clearly having this
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: yearning for children because they they want.
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: They aren't had children.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Cake, you're telling me the reason that the birth rate
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: is so low is because every woman in the country.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: People are indeed putting off having children. And we know that,
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: and this is a problem. But there is the problem.
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: But then you address the problem. And right now governments
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: are not addressing the problem. People are putting off having
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: children because we're in the middle of a cost of
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: living christ and we cannot get ossies into home.
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: Yes, there is not enough how.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: To on this, because if you want to address the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: birth rate, the answer is not to stop dog birthday parties.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: You'll have nothing to do on the weekend. The answer
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: is to.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Gooding take correct and unaffordable.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: This is the broadest societal point. People are turning to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the pets as the children because the conditions are not
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: there to make it easy for them to have real
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: human children. And I think that's incredibly sad. But I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: think this also beyond the economic circumstances of it. I
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: think there's also a level of selfishness that perhaps didn't exist,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you know, twenty thirty forty years ago, that leads people
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to say, well, actually, you know, my pleasure in life
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: is the most important thing, and so I don't want
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to deal with the hindrance says that we're of having
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a child, so I'll just have a dog instead.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: So you're mimicking the feeling of parenting with a dog
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: or a cat, Yes, minus any of the sacrifice. Yes
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that has required an actual children. I don't think that's
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: good for society.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, but I can understand that people do
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: focus a lot on their careers these days. We know
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: that people are putting off that that they're having children
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: a lot later in life than what.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: They did a while ago.
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: And if, and again, if the pet is going to
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: fill that void between now and wanting to have a child,
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: then I do not see.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: The point of Before we move on, I've got two
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: questions and they're both serious. Number one, did you take
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a gift to the party?
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: You didn't even take a gift?
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: What sort of poor do we put candies on the cake?
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: It was all very do.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: You play games at the dogs?
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: But as the parcels we don't put the parcel.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: Look, Caleb, what you've never bought a little birthday gift
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: for your cats?
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: No?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Do you know when your cat's birthday is a rough
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: flea probably.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I think one of them was born in January. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: don't know when the other one was born. I could
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: probably go and look at like Marcro chip records or something.
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: You buy them Christmas gifts.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I haven't. I've had, I've had partners. You have, you know,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: my present? My presence is their present.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: Oh that's that's quite a nice little notion. Isn't that
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: really nice?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have to buy them Christmas. They don't know.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, a cat or a dog does not understand
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the concept of Christmas. You're buying.
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: I appreciate you buying you if.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They're buying a Christmas for a cat or a dog
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: for you, because it makes you feel nice that you've
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: done it. And I mean you could do that with
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: a child that would understand and love that you've given them.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I just I just feel like it's becoming a substitute
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and I don't think that's a good place for society.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Well, I think that dog's a man's best friend and
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: they deserve treats.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: During the chet Calor, one of our producers told me
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: that you can get puffer jackets for your cats at
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: but I won't be getting.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: A puppa jacket for my cat.
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: You can go matching with your cat.
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: No, we'll get you on set. We'll get you on
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: set in the late debate matching with you and your
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: partner will sit here and watch you strike a cat.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Calen, welcome to exactly.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: I would pay money to actually see that, right Loo, Look,
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: we better move on from this topic. Now we're constantly
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: hearing about the far right, but now we're hearing more
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: about the far left. Over in Victoria, police are probing
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: a fire bombing of a Melbourne defense manufacturer by the
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: name of love It Technologies, who had their premises attacked
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: last year. Cars were set alight and slogan spray spray
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: painted over the Greensboro business in the dead of night.
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: But now today images of the suspects have been released
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: and police have revealed that it may be a terror
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: crime by far left extremists with anarchists and revolutionary beliefs.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: Here is a bit of what one of the suspects
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: said on camera.
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: Consider this a warning. After twenty one months of an
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: accelerated genocide against the Palestinian people by the illegitimate Zionist density.
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: Eight decades of American warmongering and imperialism. Two and a
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: half centuries of the most violent colonial oppression, ethnic cleansing
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: and murder of Aboriginal peoples across so called Australia. Lava
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: technologies has chosen its place at the intersection of these catastrophes.
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: Every worker in this supply chain is complicit. For the
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: past few months, we have been closely watching you. We
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: have your addresses.
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: So that was the update today. Now.
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: I found this quite interesting when we were reading about this,
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: because we always hear obviously about the far right, and
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: I don't know many instances where we say now far
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: left terror. I feel like this is one of the
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: very first instances, and I almost feel like in a
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: way it becomes a bit redundant. Why not just name
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: the ideology at hand, name and shame exactly what you're
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: going after, as opposed to making it into a broad category.
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: That's just what I think.
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: But the other thing is is that at the moment,
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: obviously we've got an Anti Semitism Royal Commission which is
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: investigating the far right, and I know that there have
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: been many Jews, for example, wanting the far left to
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: finally be investigated. So it's an interesting term that we're
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: hearing trot out now after all these years, I.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Had not heard far left terror yea in this country.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: Perhaps.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Ever, I don't like far right or far left terms because,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: like you, I think they're a little vague. I think
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: if there's an ideology, name the ideology rather than this
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: broad category that leaves us all guessing exactly what the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: agenda was. So at least they're not picking on the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: far right for a change, so maybe they're balancing it up,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: but they be more specific.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that the police have been specific in
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: saying that they believe it to be people with anarchist
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and revolutionary beliefs.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: And is that not sufficient then.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Well I suppose no. I suppose they're doing it to
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: distinguish the fact that it is not far right, because
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: people would immediately perhaps leap to that conclusion. And so
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: they're being very clear that they believe this is a
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: case of left wing terrorism. And I'm quite glad that
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: they pointed out that they believe it to be a
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: case of left wing terrorism, because you know, you can
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: talk about nebulous concepts of you know, oh, well it
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: was an anarchist terror attack, and I think people would go,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: what the hell does that actually mean. But if you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: make it clear that they believe this is a left
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: wing ideology, I think that's really important because, as you say,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I've never heard this term used before, far left terrorism.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: In fact, I don't think I've ever heard the word
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: left used in conjunction with terrorism before. And you've now effectively, well,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: you do have the police saying that they believe there
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: has been a case of left wing terror in this
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: country and they are investigating what they believe to be
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a case of left wing terror. You know, we talk
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: about the rise of far right terror and all these things. Well,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: clearly there are problems on the left, and the police
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: have now publicly identified that. I'm glad they've done that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and come out and said that because it opens up
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a discussion that we need to have about extreme ideologies
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: on the left of politics. You know, we talk about Islamism,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: where we talk about Nazism, and they're very obvious things,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: but there are broader problems clearly on the left of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: politics that might lead to things like this, and we
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: copiers about in that discussion.
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: We've seen a lot of especially overseas, actually this rise
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: in far left political violence there's been assassination attempts on
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump, for example, So I do agree.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: With that point.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: I have to say that it is good that we
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: are actually having these broader conversations because we always here
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: it's always the far right, and it never normally is
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: just the far right. It's just that people get lumped
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: into this category of it being the far right. So
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: I do agree with that point. I just think, name
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: the ideology at play and put it into perspective for
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: people to break it down. You know, it's easy to
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: call these terms, well what is the ideology?
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Don't dance around it, just say it.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Well, the far left are certainly trying to recruit school
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: students across the country. South Australian students are being encouraged
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: next week to skip school and join a protest against
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson. The protest is called Student Say No to Hanson.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: It's going to be staged outside Parliament House during school
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: hours and as I said, students are being invited to
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: join it now. The protest is backed by several groups,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: all from the far left, including the Socialist Alternative and
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: the Adelaide High School Anti Capitalists Association. Similar protests are
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: being put on around the country in Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne, etc.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: I had a couple of.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Problems with this, aside from the obvious that kids should
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: be at school. I mean, they can't even vote, so
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: why they're protesting against a political candidate. I'm not really sure,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: But the involvement of explicitly left wing socialist groups says
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: to me this is more than just a spontaneous protest
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: against Pauline Hanson because she might have said some things
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: about Asians that people misinterpreted a decade or more ago.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: This rather is part of a broader political agenda to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: try to sway young people towards a far left eye theology.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: The other thing I take exception too is the South
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Australian Education Minister Lucy Hood, who was asked whether or
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: not it was appropriate for children to attend a protest
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: against Pauline Hanson during class hours. Here's what she told
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the Adelaide Advertiser. She said school is the best place
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: for a child to be during the school week, but
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: really that's a matter for an individual parent to decide
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: if that is the best place for their child to be. Now,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I would have thought the Education minister would say unequivocally
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: during school hours kids are at school. Well, you know,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: maybe parents think it would be better for them to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: be at a protest against Pauline Hanson.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Absolutely rubbish.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: The Education Minister should say without any equivocation, kids should
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: be in school. But one more point about her saying
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: well it really is a matter for parents. This is
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: a state, as many Australian states are, where if a
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: child decides to identify as the opposite gender, schools now
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: are given the power to keep that secret from parents
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: if they deem that would be a better way to go.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So if your child changes gender, then the school reserves
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the right to say, well, maybe we shouldn't tell parents
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: about this, but if your kid wants to skip school
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: to protest Pauline Hanson, the Education minister says, well, this
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: is really a matter for parents to decide. I don't
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: want to intervene in that. Can you see the contradiction there?
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's complete hypocrisy, isn't it. I'd really despair for
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: the next generation because clearly they are utterly brainwashed. It's
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: not the first time we've seen this brainwashing. Do you
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: remember a couple of years ago there was that stripe
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: for climate change where all the high school students were
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: encouraged to skip school to go out in the streets
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: because of the climate armageddon. And I remember seeing the
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: vision at the time, going what on earth is happening?
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: Because you had kids crying. They were crying on air.
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: Are they going to be crying at this event? This
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: is just ridiculous. Look, God help us if we were
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: to ever lower the voting age, because these are the
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: types of people that would be that would be voting.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: The reality is that high school kids do not have
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: the life experience, They don't have the understanding of the
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: issues in the country, and they don't have the understanding
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: of the political system to be able to go out
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: and explain what they are protesting for. I would actually
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: love to know why these kids are taking part. What
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: part of Pauline Hanson's strategy do they not like or
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: have they just heard from mom and dad or what yet?
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: Or she's racist, she's a bigot.
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: So so that's why that they don't understand the migration
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: issues in this country. They don't understand the threat of
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: radical Islam.
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: There are so.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Many policies that are actually underpinning Pauline Hanson, right now,
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: I don't think any of these kids have any clue.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: And the other point I'd make it's been run by
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: the socialist alternative branches terrific. We are already seeing the
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: rise of socialism across America, and here what we're going
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: to have little socialists running around too, little Mam Danny's
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's concern, it really is.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I'll make the point that this shouldn't happen in school hours.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: But I do take objection to the idea that young
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: people should have no involvement in politics, or shouldn't take
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: an interest in politics.
• 29:11
  Speaker 6: I never said that shouldn't have an interest.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you said they know nothing.
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: I said that they don't.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: Think they have the understanding of the political system in
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: a high school age, and I stand by that.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: I didn't say that they know nothing.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I had my first weekly column in a
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: newspaper sixteen years of age.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: But you added up a grade because you were highly
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: intelligent and engaged in political affairs. So I think you
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: are very different to the average. Sorry, but you are
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: well sure.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: But there may be people within that crowd with whom
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I disagree that are of above average intelligence who understand politics. Again,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: it shouldn't happen in school hours. But I'm not sure
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: you can with broad brushstrokes say that every person in
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that crowd is an idiot.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: And I've never said everyone in that crowd it.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Hasn't made up their own mind. Well, you say that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they're getting it from mum and dad.
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: I think, Sirehon, that they probably are everything you want
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: to I've never said all of.
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: Them, Kaylor, but I do think that they probably are.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: They're listening to mom and dad going, oh, Pauline's this,
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: Pauline's that, and then they make up their own political views. Now,
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying that they're all unengaged with politics, but
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: not everybody. As a young Kayler Bond, who was on
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: television at the age of five years old.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: He was six years old, he were six years old,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: and he did.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Have a column when he was how old sixteen, But
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it was any good.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, they kept publishing it and people
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: kept reading it. I thought assumed there's something in that.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: To Danika's point, I mean she mentioned the climate protests
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: that school kids went to and they cried because the
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: planet is burning. I mean that was pretty good evidence
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: that most of the young people who attended these protests
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: were completely uninformed about the issues, and I'm with Anika,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if many of these young people understand
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson's policy on immigration, or the context in which
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: she made comments about good Muslims, or indeed what she
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: was referring to when she talked about the danger of
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Asian swamping the country back then when was that the nineties.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if any of these kids could give
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: a reasonable explanation or contextual we discussion on those things.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: We may find out at one pm on August the thirteenth.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I don't see we should go and talk to these kids.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Would we be allowed to interview this We probably wouldn't go.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Why not. I mean, they're in a public place, they
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: want to show up and have a chat. Presumably presumably
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: they're there with parental permission, because of course the Education
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Minister says that that is the reason that they will
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: be there in South Australia, so they may well be
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: up up for a chat. Though I would say you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: might remember Paul Keating went along to a university. I
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: don't think it was the University of Adelaide back in
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the nineties and they protested him, and he had a
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: very direct message for the students job indeed, and I
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: think most protesters would be well served by that. I
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: think one of the protesters who was yelling at him
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: there and that he told to go and get a
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: job was a woman by the name of Tammy Franks,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: who later went on to be come an Upper House
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: MP for the Greens in South Australia. So she did
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: get a job eventually. Now try and get your head
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: around this one. A Uniting church on the Gold Coast
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: in Queensland has put up a sign in the toilet
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: block that reads and here it is please use the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: bathroom that you are most comfortable with. So of course
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: there is a male toilet and there is a female toilet.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: But apparently, according to this particular Uniting church anyway, the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: bit where it's got male or the bit where it's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: got female actually doesn't mean anything at all. It's just
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: walk into whichever toilet you feel comfortable using. Perhaps we
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprised in the Uniting Church has a pride circle,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: amongst other things, and I think they were the first
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: church in Australia to have a transgender minister or whatever.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one. I think that was I've sort of
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: had a liberal view of these things for a while,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: but you know, I would have thought a church is
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a place where they tend to deal and you would
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: know better than most James, where you tend to deal
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: in truth and what you believe to be truth. Of course,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: you have faith that it's the truth, but you're making
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: proclamations about the way things are, and so you now
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: essentially have a church saying, well, actually, male or female
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. You just do which one you're most
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: comfortable with. And I would have thought if you kept
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: doing that with everything, religion wouldn't exist at all.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Would that they're trying to be compassionate, and they're trying
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: to be hospitable, But being hospitable doesn't mean you abandoned
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: common sense, let alone truth. And they're not simply being hospitable,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: let's be honest. They are promoting an ideology because when
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: you say use the bathroom that you feel most comfortable with,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: what you are effectually saying is that male and female
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: really are not binary terms. And they're promoting radical gender ideology,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: which is completely counter to the scriptures that they're supposed
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: to be preaching. So if you think about christianel like this, right,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: it's an inclusive invitation to an exclusive truth. So everybody
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: is invited, but not anything goes. And I think they're
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: confusing the two.
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: I think maybe they're taking love thy neighbor to the
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: next step.
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: Perhaps I just wonder, then.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Love thy neighbor in the next cubicle.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: Well well, well all right, look, I just wonder what
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: the point And again I feel like James, you're the
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: expert on this particular topic. Is it's what's the point
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: of being a Christian denomination? Because in my view it
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: goes against Christian principles when you know, you've got toilets
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: that can be used by anybody, and as a female,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: I don't want to be going to a unisex toilet.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: I want to be having a female only toilet. And look,
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: obviously that this church is quite progressive.
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: I think that to be the right word.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: And you came for a second because you call it liberal.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: You're calling it progressive.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: If we're talking about Christian Church, let's just call it unbiblical.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: I mean that the only.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Basis they have for existence is the Bible. Right, So,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: if you're going to teach things that are contrary to
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: the Bible, let's not call them liberal or progressive. Let's
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: just call them unbiblical, which then goes to your point.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: If you're teaching things that go against the Bible itself,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: are you still a Christian church or have you become
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: something else altogether?
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: Well, maybe they have strayed, because I was looking at
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: their website. It allows ministers to perform same sex marriages
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: and ordains openly LGBTIQ plus clergy, So they're definitely not
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: following what I would say a guiding principle of a
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: Christian church would be.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Can I also just ask you on the point of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the Bible. The Bible obviously talks about male and female.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: He created in the image of God, and there's Deuteronomy
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: that talks about not appearing as the other, not wearing
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the other's clothes, which would effectively talk against the idea
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: of being transgender. But there's also references to Unix in
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: the Bible. So what would you say is the Christian
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: view of the Bible on the idea of transgenderism the.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Christian view of the bubble on transgenderism?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: As you're created male and female both reflect the image
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: and the nature of God, and that they're not interchangeable.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: They're distinct but equal though different, so but comparable. So yeah,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: you can't switch from one to the other. I don't
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: think there's any magic ants for that. The view is
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: you're either male or female. It's pretty basic in the Bible.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: It's pretty basic in nature and in biology. I mean,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: you don't have to be a Christian to believe this stuff.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: It's basic biology and chromosomes.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Is it not?
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: Well?
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, isn't that the debate we're having every single day?
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: What is a woman?
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: James? It is?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: So there you go, Dedeka, all right, we're going to
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: go to a break when we come back to look
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: at what's making headlines tomorrow, including the Aco, the Liberal
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: leader in trouble for loud texts allegedly sent during parliamentary sittings.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: That's next.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: It's not often we start this segment with the Canberra Times,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: but they do have the best story of the day tomorrow.
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: Danneka, this is a real cracker James headline sex worker
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: text claim. Opposition leader Mark Parton has strenuously denied swapping
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: sending text messages rather to a sex worker during a
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: budget estimates hearing, including saying in one f my job
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: is boring one a swap. An anonymous complaint about mister
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: Parton's alleged behavior was sent to Speaker Jeremy Hansen, accusing
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: the Liberals leader of being engaged in a text message
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: exchange with a sex worker last Friday. An image seen
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: by The Canberra Times shows a photo allegedly taken from
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: mister Parton's seat at the committee table, with officials and
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Chief Minister Andrew Barr in the background. And then you
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: can even see it looks to me like it was
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: sent well, because if you look closely at that post,
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: it says well known politician client. They really just let
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: anyone into Parliament House. I can just I can tell
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: you that much. So have they taken a screenshot of
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: the alleged text posted it to their social media or something?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's from Instagram.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: Clearly it looks like from Instagram. Well, I mean, I
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: can't imagine that budget estimates would be that exciting, surely.
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: But dear, oh dear, this is a rapper from the
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: Canberra Times.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: It's not the first time it's happening.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: The New South Wales Nationals MP Michael Johnson back in
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one got done doing the same thing. I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: think he resigned over that. So it's not without President Caleb.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, can you blame the bloke for saying the
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: job's boring from time to time? It's like probably is
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: boring the poor chap anyway, there you get on the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: front of the Australian to borrow Stuart Raving mad Labor
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: INPs put heat on Charmers over tax fiasco at the
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Albanesian Jim Charmers facing internal caucus protest over their broken
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: tax promises, with one new Labor MP telling a constituent
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: that she finds it difficult to understand why her own
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: government's capital gains tax changes were extended to assets other
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: than housing. Federal Labor politicians are responding to a wave
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: of voter concerns around the country and promising to raise
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the issues with the Treasurer, adding further pressure on Doctor
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Chalmers to make additional amendments to his controversial reforms. After
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Labour walked back tax capital gains tax rules on residential
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: dwellings acquired from a spouse as a result of inheritance
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: or relationship breakdown. Nullifying the so called widow's tax. Advisors
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: and investors are scrambling to get across the complex new amendments.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: That goes on to talk about this new MP, which
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: is in Sturt in Adelaide, which of course used to
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: be held by the Lives for a long time. Formerly
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: that the seat of Christopher Pine. But clear Clatterham who's
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: been the MP since last year, talking to a constituent
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: saying I don't know why we've done this. I mean, look,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: when you've got back benches, and obviously back benches have
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: more freedom to say what they think, but in the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Labor Party generally you have public solidarity on these matters.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: You all vote the same way. And so when you've
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: got back benches out talking to people in their electorate
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and saying I don't understand why we've done this, I
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: think they're in a bit of trouble.
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: It's not a good look.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: It's a real fantastic.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Criticizing one nation's right, saying we couldn't possibly have a
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: one nation government because it's just I mean, they're just
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: chaos is the word he likes to use.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: Well, three months is it? Three months since the budget?
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: It's about that lie I'd say so.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: And Labor is still running around debating whether or not
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: they should stick to their ledgers of changes or make amendments.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: So well, it was done on on a fly, wasn't
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: it on the hoc?
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: It would seem that way all right.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: The front page of Tomorrow's Herald's son Dan's Dodgy Deal
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: a flaming disgrace. Premier Ben Carroll has hit out at
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the intolerably intolerable behavior the former Premier Daniel Andrews and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Special Minister of State Gavin Jennings after the corruption watchdog
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: found they had engaged in quote serious and concerning conduct
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: in their negotiations with the Firefighters Union and its chief
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Peter Marshall. Mister Carroll said he condemned the individuals exposed
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: in the Independent Broad Based Anti Corruption Commission's Operation Richmond Probe,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: vowing to implement its recommendations. What's interesting about this, of course,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: is that Ben Carroll began his premiership just a few
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: days ago by saying I am not just into Allen,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I am not Daniel Andrews, and he's wanting to separate
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: himself as much as possible from Dan Andrews. Whilst I
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: imagine trying to balance that thing with not completely throwing
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: his former colleagues under the bus, because he would still
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: have some loyalty to just Into and Dan Andrews. Oh really,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: but he would not have much choice other than to
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: throw them under the bus if he hopes to have
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: any chance at the next election.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's got I don't think he's got
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: loyalty to them at all. You know, he is of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: the right, they are of the socialist left. There are
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: people who would love to have brought down Daniel Andrews
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: and Justiner Allen a long time ago. And I think
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Ben Carroll actually quietly is reveling, you know. Yeah, I
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: think he loves it because he's finally got the opportunity
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: to try and dismantle that Andrew's legacy. And day by
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: day he's getting the opportunities to do that. Now, that's
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: not going to win them the election. But I think,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: just quietly he would be more bullish in private than
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: he is in public in the way he is denouncing
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: this stuff, because there are lots of people in the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Labor Party who hate Daniel.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: An can he denounce Dan Andrews and just senter Ellen
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: without trashing the labor brand, which of course he has
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to keep.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: And that's why he's got to walk this tightrope of saying,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: you know things, things have been bad and I'm going
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: to do things better without totally crapping on them. But
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: I reckon, if you've got a couple of beers into
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the bloken, we're in a padded room where no one
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: would hear anything. He'd probably have some should we say
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: not nice things to say, yes, but those two individuals
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: choice words.
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: Let's have a look about the Northern Territory News data
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: center ambitions blocked Bowen's powerplay. The Northern Territory's gas powered
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: data center ambitions have been targeted after the federal Energy
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: Minister vowed to use Commonwealth legislation to enforce renewable only
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: standards nationally. Is this guy for real? Seriously, we are
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: already buggered from this renewables only roll out. Your power
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: bills are going up every single quarter, and now he
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: wants to enforce renewable only standards nationally.
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: Terrific, It's just getting better and better.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he's petrified of these days because they
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: use so much power from the grid. The grid is
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: already under enormous pressure because of bold post. So hence
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: they want to stop states rushing ahead with these things.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And states would want them because there's a lot of
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: money to be made for the states and they're all
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: in massive debt. So it to be an interesting fight
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: between the FEDS and the States over these data centers.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, the Northern Territory, for my mind,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: is the perfect place to put data centers, right because
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: they have, you know, vast amounts of unused land. Now,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I really bothers me that they keep trying to put
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: them up in capital cities and things. I mean, they
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: emit shed loads of heat and they do use up
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of power. But you know, at the back
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: of the NT somewhere, a gas fired data center to
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: me would make a lot of sense. But apparently mister
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Boone didn't like that. On the front of the tiers tomorrow,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: AFL legal scandal of Victorian AFL Club has struck a
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: secret deal requiring a current player who has suffered multiple
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: concussions to assume all legal responsibility for any further on
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: field brain trauma. Club brokeer the deal with one of
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: its most vulnerable players to exonerate itself and medical staff
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: from future court action. The AFL Players Association said it
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: was a dangerous precedent, and neurophysiologist el Alan Pierce said
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: he was appalled. It would set a very interesting precedent,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't it. If it's basically saying that, you know, the
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: players know that they could get brain damage playing the game,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: and that's that we've got no responsibility. Now.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: I don't see what's wrong with it. Play your own risk.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, if the players signed it, I guess
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: it's up to him, right. But it's an interesting discussion
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: in terms of where that goes.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, the alternative is they without knowing any more than.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: The details we've got.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: The alternative is they tell this guy, sorry, but your
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: AFL career has finished. You can no longer play. But
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: if he says, but I want to plan, I'm willing
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: to accept the risk. I don't see what the problem is.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: We're going to go to a break. When we come back.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Police arrest a man dressed as the Grim Reaper at
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: a hospital's next Typically, when you go to hospital, guys,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I guess you're looking for comfort, You're looking for reassurance,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: but you don't always get that at the hospital.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Do you call him, well, no not if you go
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: to a hospital in North Wales, it would seem a
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: chap by the name of Leon Gillespie decided he would
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: have himself a little bit of fun and so, as
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, he goes to this hospital outside this hospital
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: in North Wales dressed like this, and he is dressed
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: up as the Grim Reaper. He apparently rocked up and
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: you know, as you can see in black from head
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to tap and stared at patients in the hospital or
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: people have thought, oh my god. You know, I thought
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I was coming on. I thought I was coming here
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: to get better, and now it's all over. So the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: coppers actually arrested him. They went and picked him up
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: and he's had to go and face caught in Wales
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: and they find him two hundred quid for causing public news.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: And so he later described it as a crow costume.
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: He thought he was dressed as a crush.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just dress up as a crow and don't
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: stands outside the hospital. I reckon he's been hard done by.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Actually that is actually a pretty good prank.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I reckon they thought it really was the Grimory because
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I mean they sent four police cards.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: So they must have considered.
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: I imagine if you were a little bit you know,
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: you just had anesthetic or something.
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: I'm really dead.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: Put me back to sleep.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: We showed you the other night the worst national anthem
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: ever recorded in history at the US Women's Baseball League,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: just to refresher memory. This is Martha Reeves, who in
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: her day was a great singer, Hall of fame singer
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: in fact.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: But here she was the other night.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: You bye.
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: Bye'm so proud.
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: Well, but why yes, nast.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: Please me a little bit pitchy?
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: I think we can all agree. Well, some vision has
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: emerged of the practice prior to that performance.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: And I have listened to Martha Reeves giving some advice
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: to her co singers.
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: Interested by what.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: She tells the backup singers they're out of tune.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: I want to listen to herself.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Did you know?
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: And here's the really sad part about this. Eighty five
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: year old Martha Reeves has her first album in twenty
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: years coming out later this month. This is not the
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: publicity she would have been hoping for.
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: No, definitely wouldn't.
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: But you know what we'll be getting publicity If if
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: you are a Space fan tonight or overnight I think
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: our time Falcon nine, Elon Musk's rocket, it's going to
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: be crashing into the Moon. This is the debris that's
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: going to be crashing. It has been drifting into space
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: now for more than a year.
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: That collision may even be visible from Earth. So there
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: you go.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: So you mean that Elon Musk is going to invade
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the indigenous sky country?
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: Oh, good point he is.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: That's all we've got time for tonight.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Stick around. Up next is the Reader Penny Show.
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: Good Night,