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Finding Sake Seeker: Thai food and Sake · Sake On Air

0:02
The p second actually broke me second back
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in 19 80, this place was actually Lin
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on the main drag. The first it was
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kind of soy sauce Miso. To the point
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where you actually changed my life. New Year's
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day 19 89.
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Not just Sa as a beverage for all
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the culture in history.
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Thank you for tuning in to another episode
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of Sa, The world's podcast are dedicated to
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expanding the dialogue surrounding Japan's iconic beverages, I
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am, of course talking about Sa, S chew
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and Our would
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And we are recording
0:36
at the Japan Sake and S information center.
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I know we've been recording online quite a
0:40
bit recently, but
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Here we are in person at the center.
0:44
In the heart of Tokyo. And as always,
0:47
this show is made possible with the support
0:49
of the Japan, Sake and S you maker
0:52
association.
0:53
My name is Chris Hughes. I am 1
0:55
of your regular hosts on the show.
0:58
And today, we're going to be exploring a
1:01
very, very exciting topic indeed,
1:04
ty cuisine and Sake. So a lot of
1:07
events are now taking place in Tokyo is
1:09
pretty much back to normal.
1:11
The calendar is pretty
1:13
c full of various different events.
1:16
And Cindy and I
1:18
we actually attended a a really, really interesting
1:21
and fun event
1:23
in the center of Tokyo last night.
1:25
The event that we attended was a celebration
1:29
of Ty cuisine and Sa.
1:32
It was it's a place at a restaurant
1:35
called Champ
1:36
in Shi in Tokyo, a lovely restaurant, serving
1:40
thai cuisine.
1:41
And basically, it was... There was some food.
1:45
There was some sake,
1:46
and
1:47
there was various explanation. Actually, there was also
1:50
actually,
1:51
the, wife
1:52
of a, very famous, Sake Brewer, need a
1:55
Hong k. And she was there as well.
1:58
It was a really fun then, and it
2:01
was a great opportunity
2:02
to really
2:04
find out you know, how well Ty cuisine
2:06
goes Sake find out more about it as
2:08
a genre.
2:09
And it gives me great pleasure to introduce
2:12
the organizers, the hosts of that event,
2:15
and today's
2:17
special guests.
2:18
I have with me,
2:19
you,
2:20
and I have Pam. Hello. Thank you very
2:23
much to you both for joining us on
2:24
the show. Hi. Thank you so much for
2:26
inviting us.
2:27
Pleasure is all ours, and you basically come
2:30
all the way from Thailand. Right?
2:32
Yes. Yes. You're not based in in Japan
2:34
normally. Are you? No. So you... You're your
2:37
Japanese. Right? You born in Japan. Yeah. But
2:39
you've been spending a lot of time living
2:42
in Thailand? It's become your
2:44
second home, would it be fair to say
2:45
that? Right. After, like, I've been living there
2:49
for for and half years. Okay. And now
2:52
I'm moved the base 2 berlin. Oh, interesting.
2:55
Okay. Sure I didn't do my homework with
2:57
that.
2:58
You're in Berlin or interesting? Okay. Well, why
3:01
don't we start? Maybe just tell our listeners
3:03
a little bit about yourself,
3:05
and kind of what you're involvement with
3:07
Sake. It's. Yep.
3:10
So I'm you Na, and my career starts
3:13
with ke chef. And also, I was a
3:16
food editor.
3:17
And I traveled
3:19
around the world to correct the Grandma's recipes.
3:22
Maybe I can introduce it later.
3:24
And I met my husband
3:27
and,
3:28
par heart, and we c founded it,
3:31
sa seeker.
3:33
And here we are now. Yeah. That's right.
3:35
So the company that was,
3:37
hosting last night's event is your company, which
3:40
is called Sake Si.
3:42
And it's it's got an amazing
3:44
logo, which is kind of like a a
3:45
talk with a with an eye. Yeah. In
3:47
the middle. I wanna to ask you more
3:49
about that later on. But it's very eye
3:51
catching.
3:52
And then what what about yourself?
3:54
Hi.
3:55
My name is Nat, Sea rat.
3:58
But tiny very long. So you can call
4:00
me Pam.
4:02
My background is actually from finance. I was
4:04
in finance for almost 10 years.
4:07
And also,
4:09
now an entrepreneur, and right now, yeah, doing
4:12
Sa with you.
4:14
So it's a... This this is the partnership.
4:17
Okay. So
4:18
may maybe I'll start by asking, how did
4:20
you do meet each other?
4:22
Actually,
4:23
our
4:24
husband's,
4:25
mineral and pat made
4:28
together first, and they want to do something
4:31
together and they want to make business together.
4:34
And after that, we join and we became
4:37
partner like 4 of us. Like, it was
4:40
more
4:41
friendship more than the business. But once we
4:44
were trying sa in Japan and pom really
4:47
liked it. And we
4:49
stopped drinking and
4:51
hot are serving pools.
4:54
So watches start drinking and husbands cooking, so
4:57
that's how we work.
4:59
So maybe he already answered this question in
5:01
par, but what brought you both into the
5:04
world of Sake? I I'm was there 1
5:08
particular you eureka moment that you can remember
5:10
a little bit of a surprise experience. Tell
5:12
was more. Yeah
5:13
Yeah. I'll take this 1. Okay.
5:16
Actually,
5:17
like, you mentioned, our husband, were trying to
5:20
talk and doing business together for a long
5:23
time. But
5:25
until we joined, and then we kind of
5:27
travel
5:28
together to to Japan, me and my husband,
5:31
we came to Japan just for a short
5:33
visit, and we were thinking of, yeah. We
5:36
should do some, business together. And then,
5:39
they took us, so men room you took
5:41
us to this
5:42
Italian restaurant
5:44
na.
5:45
It's in Kyoto near na.
5:48
And we were there and we were having
5:51
this
5:52
pairing mule, and they pair
5:55
Italian food with
5:56
wine and that was this 1 label of
5:59
Sa.
6:00
And then I tasted it, and I was
6:02
like,
6:04
this is really good. This is nothing
6:06
like what I've tasted before and
6:10
right then and there, we discuss Yeah. Maybe
6:13
we should
6:14
do this because, you know, III like to
6:17
drink. She likes to drink. We bonded it
6:19
over drinking.
6:21
Right. And then yeah. At that moment, we
6:23
were thinking, yeah This is really good and
6:25
and so I I asked her, you know,
6:28
maybe we should try and input this. And
6:30
luckily,
6:31
she has also some connection, and, you know,
6:34
we we approach the brewery,
6:37
casa no Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was
6:40
actually our,
6:42
first brewery who actually gave us the opportunity.
6:45
So have to really thank you, She'll be
6:47
sound for that. He's a wonderful wonderful wonderful
6:50
supporter,
6:51
Right. He's Sa in general, Buddha, and he's
6:53
very kind of warm and welcoming and
6:57
so actually, you... The Sake were... You had
6:59
Casa mori at the event last night as
7:01
well. Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So
7:04
If I'm understand this correctly, you basically fell
7:06
in love with Sa and decided to start
7:09
a venture together pretty much at the same
7:11
time. And, you know, we often say it's
7:14
part of
7:15
sac culture that it kind of it it
7:18
helps bring people together.
7:20
It's it's sort of like the tissue that
7:21
connects people together or it's, you know, it
7:23
has this kind of mysterious power
7:26
to create bonds between people
7:29
So
7:30
it's really kind of, you know, cool to
7:32
hear that.
7:33
Thailand is not a name that comes up
7:35
so often when we discuss
7:37
second markets.
7:38
But I do know that thai food and
7:40
Sake goes really well together. I'm a massive
7:42
fan of, Ty green Curry. I know it's
7:44
the most is the most, you know, obvious
7:46
thing to to say there's a lot more
7:48
to ty cuisine than just Ty green, Curry.
7:50
But it does go really well with Sake,
7:53
especially when actually it's quite difficult to pair
7:54
it with a lot of wine I find.
7:57
So at the event, last night, there was
8:00
actually there was various different dishes
8:03
of varying kind of like degrees of spiciness
8:05
and things. So I mean,
8:08
the sake and the food went really well
8:10
together.
8:11
So
8:12
obviously,
8:13
thai food and Sake go really well together.
8:15
But I think Thailand is a bit of
8:17
a dark horse when it comes to,
8:20
sort of, like, the the the overall global
8:22
Sa industry? Mh. So tell me more about
8:24
the Sake market in Thailand. Is it a
8:26
fast growing 1
8:28
what potential challenges do you still have to
8:30
overcome do you think?
8:32
Actually,
8:34
I wouldn't say it's a fast growing. It
8:36
it took us at 7 years, to get
8:38
to this point. The Moment in 2016.
8:41
Sure. Yeah. And that got us here today,
8:44
not a lot of people
8:46
understand,
8:47
Sa, Mh first started. You know? And even
8:51
some people who are actually drinking Sa
8:53
already, they
8:55
only drink... They only drink out or think
8:57
of the name that they already know that
8:59
it existed from a long time ago. So
9:02
it took us quite some time to educate
9:04
the market.
9:05
And,
9:06
for us, we're are we are trying to
9:08
introduce K sa. So the brands that we
9:11
have
9:12
I would say it's not the traditional type
9:15
of
9:16
mainly, not not mainly the traditional type of
9:19
ta. So
9:20
there is a lot of work to it.
9:22
From
9:23
the
9:24
transportation where, you know, we are the first
9:26
people,
9:27
the first company in Thailand who did, the
9:30
chain,
9:31
minus 5 logistics. So we did that from
9:34
the Sag brewery door
9:36
to our customers door. It's all cold chain.
9:39
And that that was 1 of the main
9:41
challenge that we had to do.
9:43
And then after that, you know, once we
9:45
deliver it, to our client, our customer who
9:47
has to sell it to their client.
9:52
Another challenge is their storage.
9:54
Where, you, if they were going to keep
9:55
it a long time, they would have to
9:57
have, like
9:59
a very low temperature
10:01
refrigerator.
10:02
Which also,
10:03
we
10:04
actually provide
10:06
oh for some of
10:07
main partner. We kind of, like, do this
10:12
collaboration? Yeah. Yeah. So so we we provide
10:14
the the... Is it Is it like a
10:16
fridge maker in in Thailand or Yes. Okay.
10:18
It it has to be because on, the
10:20
the temperature is quite unique. Sure. It's not...
10:23
You cannot just use the regular re... Freezer.
10:25
No where it's minus 17 No. Right? You
10:28
need, like, that range of, like, just below
10:31
0. Yeah. Yeah. So we had to
10:34
had that, a meet. To to be clear,
10:37
the bottles will break if you freeze. If
10:39
you freeze the sake, will eventually, the glass
10:41
will shatter. Right.
10:43
So Wow. You provide fridge for the for
10:46
some of the... Not all of them. Right?
10:48
So some Obviously, there'll be certain conditions, but
10:50
but that's really. I'm I'm not think I've
10:52
ever heard of that. Actually before. That's quite
10:54
quite unique prospect
10:56
proposal.
10:58
What are the challenges? Did you go? You
11:00
say people like people had an incorrect understanding
11:03
about what Sa was? So what what did
11:04
people generally think Sa was? What are the
11:06
sort of misconceptions like you would come across?
11:09
So entire culture. There is this white spirit,
11:12
which is also made from rice.
11:14
Okay. And,
11:15
back then before we do this,
11:18
a lot of people's
11:19
still have that, mentality that Sa is actually
11:22
a spirit. Yes. Similar to S you the
11:25
White spirit that we had in Thailand. And
11:27
and the sake that was there before. Some
11:30
of them are actually the ones that are
11:33
a little bit harder harder to understand. Mh.
11:36
So that's What? So you join about K
11:38
sake. I just wanna, like, clarify
11:40
what do you mean by K sake because
11:42
there is actually a a category called K
11:44
Sake now, which is basically
11:46
Sa, which is not what we call in
11:48
the West, Sa what they call here what
11:50
what we call here in Japan hon or
11:52
Say,
11:53
basically, the brewers don't have a license to
11:56
make that, so they basically
11:57
infuse other ingredient? Are you talking about that?
11:59
Or is it just sort of K is
12:02
in kind of small boutique breweries making quite...
12:05
Is that what you mean by K sa.
12:06
Interesting. So that was kind of the first
12:08
kind of
12:09
import into into Thailand, because it's quite easy
12:12
to import, I guess, Right? They're less fragile
12:15
perhaps. I mean, form for us it's more
12:17
difficult. But actually what we think we want
12:21
to
12:22
introduce to true
12:23
Actually.
12:24
Did you do any kind of market research
12:26
to come to that decision or or is
12:28
it just kind of... That's what we like?
12:30
That's what we'd like to push? Or is
12:31
it like, no No. We think, you know,
12:33
people in Thailand were really fall in love
12:35
with this? How did it kind of come
12:38
about? Yeah. Well, actually,
12:40
like, first came from, like, she really likes
12:43
Casa.
12:44
So that I can see the market in
12:46
here. Yeah. Right now. Yeah. But and after
12:49
that, because
12:50
as many of Japanese do, but for me
12:53
as well like Sake was for elder people.
12:57
Mh. Old man
12:59
Yeah. That kind of, yeah perspective, I had.
13:02
Mh But after that, we start drinking with
13:06
them, And I also discovered the Sa possibility.
13:10
Yeah. In it. And after that, so, like,
13:13
after
13:14
we talk to C on and after
13:17
so, okay. Then if we're gonna do sake
13:20
to Thailand, then
13:22
if we can,
13:24
show
13:25
same kind of variety of taste, then that
13:28
would be confusing to the market. Sure. Because
13:30
it's quite people thinks this is pretty similar.
13:33
Yeah. So
13:35
because we have most of us has
13:39
food background.
13:40
So with using that, we
13:43
actually pointed out, like, okay. We have this
13:47
type of taste, so we need opposite type
13:49
of paste, and this type paste. So to
13:52
show, like, a variety to... They can see
13:55
easily, okay, this too this is quite different.
13:58
But,
13:59
after that, we found out that is the
14:02
regional taste.
14:03
So that is our main reason that
14:07
we want to preserve regional taste, but this
14:10
reflects into a lot into the sake taste.
14:13
Mh. So we want to show like not
14:16
only the bottles, but behind the stories as
14:18
well. Like, okay. This taste is really showing
14:22
na
14:23
taste or this is right. Because I can
14:26
see that with your grandma's project as well.
14:28
Right? Yeah. I mean, I was gonna ask,
14:29
like, how do you pick these grandma's? How
14:31
do you find these grandma's? Do you have
14:33
a particular... So I guess it's all about
14:34
showcasing the regional? Right. That these grandma kind
14:37
of,
14:39
basically sort of foster the word, like convey,
14:42
not convey but also communicate in a way
14:44
through their creations. Right? Through there through their
14:46
cooking. They're cooking is obviously using particular regional
14:49
techniques or regional ingredients.
14:51
Do you have a particular region in mind
14:54
before you go out looking for these dramas
14:56
Or is it just people that you've met
14:58
on your travels, and is it the same
15:00
with Sa when you're when it comes to
15:01
selecting the breweries? Yeah. It's quite similar. Like,
15:04
when I started ground mods recipes. So I
15:07
start hunting scrum, like over...
15:09
I thought you were gonna say that somehow.
15:11
So how are she gonna put it? How
15:13
you gonna put it? Hunting grandma. Okay?
15:16
And
15:17
so I just travel around because I didn't
15:20
have home at the time. Right? You can
15:22
say homeless
15:23
And No. No mat. Right? Yeah. No mind.
15:25
We can...
15:26
And only, like, 1 carry bag with me
15:29
and we can say minimalist.
15:31
Yeah.
15:32
But, at that moment with my 1 carry
15:35
back and just going to, really regional area
15:38
into, like, really,
15:40
small
15:41
towns. Yeah. Because, like, deep in the mountain,
15:45
we have more creativity there. Sure. Because it's...
15:48
They had to create to eat something. It's
15:51
a necessity. Right? Yeah. And that that was
15:54
really
15:55
unique to me. Mh. I've never seen this
15:57
kind of food before and something that I
16:00
cannot
16:01
taste in other cities.
16:04
So I was so bored after I travel
16:06
along around the world because the all the
16:09
city seems quite similar now. Mh. And all
16:12
the big names and all the big brands
16:15
and all taste gonna be quite similar. Mh.
16:18
Like, they all likes little bit
16:20
sweeter side of paste or something like that.
16:24
So... But, when I go to Grandma's places,
16:27
what they cook. It's what I've never taste.
16:30
Before.
16:31
So that was really unique, and I really
16:34
went into this,
16:36
research
16:37
and I start researching grandmother's mothers and
16:41
then I found out their recipe is really
16:44
connected to the environment.
16:46
Where they are living. Right. So that is
16:49
really similar to the sake market, but the
16:54
when I start recording their recipes,
16:56
I found out this is gonna be
17:00
losing.
17:01
And it's not gonna be,
17:03
surviving. Right. So because, like, they don't have
17:06
person to take care or, like, person to
17:10
because They don't see this recipe. It's so
17:13
important. For them, it's so normal, but the...
17:15
That's why they don't write it and nobody
17:18
takes over.
17:19
But
17:20
Sa
17:21
instead. So Sa is, like, they do same
17:24
thing. They reflects a lot that
17:27
regional taste. Mh. But that they are doing
17:31
it for 400 years so, like, long time
17:34
to pass it down to the generations.
17:37
So this is the 1 I really wanted
17:40
to do.
17:41
I can...
17:43
Okay. I buy
17:45
sake from them. That means they really take
17:48
care of the landscape.
17:50
Like rice fields and you need to get
17:54
water
17:55
That is from mountain. So you need to
17:57
take care of mountains now. Yep. And all
17:59
the resources around them. They are taking care.
18:02
By making sake. Mh. So those kind of
18:05
breweries, we are
18:07
naming them cross brewery. I see. Yeah. Okay.
18:11
Yeah. I think that's correct.
18:13
You know, a label to to give them.
18:15
We... We used to call them at craft
18:17
Breweries right. Until this new kind of definitely
18:20
crap wave came along. Yeah. That's because that
18:23
is what craft means, essentially. Right.
18:26
It is their craft. Right?
18:28
So
18:29
I wondered like, how easy is it to
18:31
persuade these... I imagine they're quite modest. Right?
18:35
It's in Japanese culture to an extent to
18:37
be quite modest. Right? And I imagine they
18:40
probably a little bit confused as well. Like,
18:41
why are you so interested in in what
18:43
we're doing lately? They've never had this attention
18:44
before. So how how difficult Was it a
18:47
challenge to get these grandma to sort of
18:49
come on board and share their recipes and
18:51
especially being in video swap? Because you have
18:52
a Youtube series. Right? Will you actually film
18:55
These grandma at work. Mh. How difficult was
18:57
it to kind of persuade them to... Did
18:59
you... Was any persuasion required? Or was it...
19:01
You know, were they just sort of was
19:02
it? They didn't think too much about it.
19:04
It was kind of almost like a natural
19:06
thing. Mh. Like, for me, it was really
19:10
combination of my cooking skill and editing hill.
19:12
Mh. And I went to
19:15
local places and meet the grandmother's.
19:19
I usually
19:20
telling everyone, Like, do you know any, like,
19:23
over 80 years old rock and creative dramas?
19:27
And that was a keyword for me to
19:29
find out scrum. I in because I was
19:32
t around. So
19:34
I talked to them, and okay. I find
19:36
out Okay. This person, I really want to
19:39
know. Then I start talking with her and
19:42
at the end, she will ask me, Like,
19:44
where do you say? And I said, I
19:47
don't have a anywhere to stay now. So
19:50
she will let me stay. Oh, wow. And
19:52
then I start getting close with her. Yeah.
19:55
And then, like,
19:57
start
19:58
do
19:59
conversation like, loving story of her or something
20:03
like, So it's a trust trust is very
20:05
important. Right? Building that connection and trust, which
20:08
is which is also I think really important
20:10
when you're trying to
20:11
kinda build a connection with the Sake brewer.
20:13
Right. For the first time. First, they can
20:15
be... I think, you know, just as an
20:17
industry, At first, it could be a little
20:18
bit closed, You know,
20:20
sort of if you don't, if you've not
20:22
already exchanged cards with the Sa brewer before,
20:24
they can be a little bit reluctant. To
20:26
sort of have you come into the brewery,
20:28
for example, or even kind of to have
20:30
that first dialogue about doing, you know, projects
20:33
together or whatever you need to build that
20:35
relationship, build that trust at first. How did
20:37
building these relationships with these grandma?
20:40
How does it differ with building the relationships
20:42
with the brewers?
20:44
Parts of all, like, most of the breweries
20:47
male. So I it'll just say, like, okay.
20:50
Can I stay over him over now?
20:53
That is, like big difference. Yeah. But
20:56
it's kind of same. Like, what I really
21:00
see is the pace really reflects their
21:03
character too. Yes. So If I really like
21:06
them. I... That means I really like their
21:09
taste too. Yeah. So that is most most
21:11
of the time happens to us. So if
21:14
we go there and start talking to them,
21:18
I really like their pace, then that means
21:20
like,
21:21
I think we can get along with because
21:23
I our...
21:24
Like, where we look at is quite same
21:27
direction. So, like, we always talk about the
21:30
future, what we wanna do in the future,
21:33
and
21:35
they also talk about their future or the
21:37
sake future. So
21:39
we want to discuss not only this moment,
21:42
but we want to do, like something together.
21:45
So it's more now
21:48
became more close with them no?
21:50
So first, it perhaps you were it took
21:52
a little bit of time. Right? To kind
21:54
of build this close relationship But first is
21:55
a little bit distant. And then over time
21:57
it kind of gone got closer.
21:59
I think like 1 common thread that runs
22:02
through all your projects
22:04
maybe I'm mistaken, but this is kind of
22:06
what I noticed.
22:07
It seems to be all about people.
22:10
I think on 1 of your, 1 of
22:12
your websites I was looking at. You sort
22:14
of have this blurb where you basically say,
22:16
like, it's all about this,
22:19
how do you phrase it? A to kitty
22:21
oe,
22:22
which is kind of like, only possible
22:24
when you have certain people making crafting the
22:27
food or crafting the... I I assume it
22:29
will be the same for Sake. Right?
22:31
Have you kind of integrated that in you
22:34
because Sa can be a bit modest as
22:36
well? You know, they often say, like, oh,
22:38
no. It's not as that make the.
22:40
The microbes, You know, That's that's 1 line
22:42
that they often use. How how have you
22:44
kind of worked with that? Are you... Is
22:45
it the same kind of
22:47
you're still trying to put the focus on
22:49
the brewers in particular? Or is it something
22:51
a little bit different? How do you work
22:53
that into your marketing?
22:54
That is
22:55
my personal side. Mh. Like, with the company,
22:58
I'm not sure, like, each of us has
23:00
a different, maybe side. But mh my personal
23:03
side
23:04
it's really, really connected from what I've done
23:07
as well. So, like, I always like
23:11
producers. So I go to producers because when
23:14
I cook
23:15
food,
23:16
I noticed there is some certain
23:19
ingredients
23:20
that really has power. Yeah. So I really
23:23
wondered, like, who makes it? Like, how come
23:26
this became so different. Mh. So I visited
23:29
them all the time, and I noticed,
23:31
this is the way of living for them.
23:34
So that is what I found out. And
23:37
after that, I really admire and I really,
23:41
liking that. So with my
23:44
editing skill. I really want to show everyone
23:47
that
23:48
this is really
23:50
gorgeous your thing. And you are eating as
23:53
normal or as usual, but this is, like,
23:57
unusual thing. Mh. So I really wanted to
23:59
focusing on that.
24:01
They might say, like, this is micro or
24:03
Yeah. That is true. But that that is
24:05
true as grandma too. So really? Yeah. The
24:09
grandmothers, they never said I'm a great cook.
24:12
Oh, okay. But the I
24:14
find, like, they're are really good cook. Yeah.
24:17
So that is kind of same what. So
24:20
who do... Who do did if brewers say
24:21
that the microbes are other ones that do
24:23
all the work? What did grandma saying? Grandma
24:26
said just like they're doing what they need
24:29
to do. Okay. So it's more a necessity.
24:31
Right. I'm not doing anything special here. Right.
24:33
I'm just trying to... You know, this is
24:34
the way that we survive in this part
24:36
of Japan. Right. There there's something about the
24:38
terrain. Right? That makes it difficult to sort
24:40
of
24:41
produce quite delicious creations. You really need to
24:43
have the skills to do that? They're ain't
24:45
quite Right. You know, maybe it's the climate
24:47
or maybe it's the conditions of wherever they
24:49
are weather or whatever.
24:51
And maybe time to Yeah. Like, it takes
24:54
a lot of time that they
24:57
focusing on. Mh. But that they think this
24:59
is normal more but. It it is time.
25:02
So
25:03
this is same as brewery too, like, they
25:06
cannot make just today. Yeah Right? But
25:09
their time is so precious and this,
25:13
with time, they can make it like, really
25:16
wonderful things... Yeah. That was... And in a
25:19
way perhaps,
25:20
1 difference between Sake brewers and and grandma,
25:23
which we Sounds like a funny thing to
25:25
say that.
25:26
The these these, you know, old ladies are
25:28
all men who have these
25:31
skills and I'm creating this wonderful food. To
25:34
put it in a different way. 1 difference
25:36
I think maybe is that Brewers actually don't
25:38
really have the luxury of time when they're
25:42
crafting their creations. Mh. Right? They're against quite
25:45
AAA
25:46
strict schedule. Right. They've got to... They're they're
25:48
working more towards a consumer. Right?
25:51
That's 1 quite a big difference? Yeah. True.
25:53
So how kinda how have you kind of
25:55
worked with that?
25:58
So
25:59
this is the thing that we can do
26:02
for the future, actually. So the grandma thing
26:05
is really precious in a cultural side. Mh.
26:08
But because
26:10
this is not packaged wholesale.
26:13
And
26:14
they are not making it wholesale.
26:16
So there is no way that we can
26:19
get involved
26:21
So only the things I could do was,
26:23
like, making video after it or making, like,
26:26
I write a story of them. Yeah. That
26:28
was the most I could do. But for
26:31
the sake everywhere. Mh. I can sell for
26:34
them too. Sure. And I can talk about
26:37
them with
26:38
actual their thing. That is really strong that
26:42
they can drink and listen to the story.
26:44
Yeah. That it's direct way to
26:47
communicate to the customers.
26:49
And I can talk on behalf of them
26:51
to the thai people. So that is, like,
26:55
most different thing
26:57
And and how... And so going back to
26:59
Pam?
27:00
Have you visited any other Sa markets
27:03
like the Us or you have? Yes. So
27:06
how would you say the thai second market
27:10
compares with say? Should we say the Us.
27:12
For example?
27:15
I'd say
27:16
for tie, like, like, I mentioned, it's still
27:19
a little bit behind the Us. In in
27:21
such a way that, you know, we still
27:23
need, a lot more
27:25
education in the market.
27:27
We need more
27:29
manpower. We need more professional in the market
27:32
as well.
27:33
This this come up to actually
27:35
something,
27:37
maybe I could mention later that, you know,
27:39
we we're are also trying to
27:41
provide to to to provide the Sake professional.
27:45
To the market. Because that is, you know,
27:47
I see that a lot of times when
27:50
we sell it to the customer,
27:52
we
27:53
know
27:54
directly the story of the producer. Right? We
27:57
we want to expand that. But
28:00
the limitation is that the people who are
28:03
actually
28:04
directly facing the end consumer. They don't know
28:07
that. So so what we're trying to do
28:10
is we do 2 things
28:12
we... Actually, every year, we
28:14
bring the
28:16
our clock customer to the Sag brewery. Oh,
28:18
and it's... Okay.
28:20
Again, some. Some... Yeah. Some some some... You
28:24
you've gotta draw, you you can't, you know,
28:26
that maybe maybe eventually, everyone will get. Go.
28:28
But yeah. At first, you've got a sort
28:30
of select. Right. Certain people to go. Right?
28:32
Yep. Yep. So we want them to be
28:34
able to communicate to the end consumer. Right?
28:37
What the wonderful story of our,
28:40
brewer.
28:41
And
28:42
we are also doing a Sake
28:45
education course. So Right. We are partnering with
28:49
Ssa sa
28:50
as a association. We're opening
28:52
courses in Thailand.
28:54
To actually provide, more professional
28:58
in the market. So they could be the
29:00
1 representing
29:01
or telling the story of,
29:04
the wonderful second makers. Yeah. Because, of course,
29:07
there's only so much you can do to
29:09
communicate how amazing Exactly is, you know, you
29:12
it can't become your your full time job.
29:14
You never get an ending game else done.
29:16
So you've got to
29:17
train the foot soldiers as you were So
29:20
you actually, the ones who are going to
29:22
be serving the Sake in the restaurants, maybe
29:24
it's wine smelling or, you know, maybe it's
29:27
just
29:28
restaurant staff,
29:29
in future staff, whatever,
29:31
or people who are doing events privately
29:34
in their communities.
29:36
So, obviously,
29:37
it's very important to have that education. Because
29:41
as you were saying earlier and it's something
29:43
that we hear in around the world in
29:45
all sa markets.
29:47
Unfortunately with Sake, it tends to be that
29:50
most people have a kind of a sort
29:51
of a misunderstanding about what it is. They
29:54
don't really know how to appreciate it properly
29:57
So
29:58
education is really important. So your both your
30:00
your marketers,
30:01
your
30:02
evangelist to an extent and also your,
30:06
educators
30:06
as well. Are there any other things that
30:08
you do and you don't do?
30:11
You seem to have it all covered for
30:13
the thai market. Yeah. Actually, like, our partnership
30:17
was quite well balanced
30:19
our husband's
30:21
can create the pace. Yeah. So we can
30:23
do, like, very nice pairing
30:26
suggestion to the older markets too. Mh. And
30:29
she is doing finance, so she can side,
30:31
like, what we should do or what we
30:33
shouldn't do. And, I'm just telling story. Right.
30:38
Has the action been in tile? Has it
30:41
changed over time? Or is it gonna remain
30:42
the same? Have there been any surprises?
30:45
What about the brewers as well? Because the
30:47
brewers sometimes come visit? You in Thailand. What
30:50
is their kind of reaction being to see
30:52
the thai market? And then have there been
30:53
any surprises for them do you think?
30:55
For the brewer
30:58
reaction is... Like, I'm gonna say.
31:00
They were
31:01
really,
31:02
surprised because
31:04
some of them came to Thailand for the
31:06
first time, or others came
31:09
to Thailand like,
31:11
since 20 years or something. So, they don't
31:15
have
31:16
image of Thailand now. Okay. So when we
31:19
take them to the... Our clients places is,
31:22
they are really surprised how advanced tasting menu
31:26
we are doing. Right. So,
31:29
actually, like, what we pair is the high
31:31
end thai food or high end, like,
31:34
Makes cuisine in Mexican. Yeah. And not only
31:38
Japanese cuisine, but we have more variety of
31:41
the taste. We are pairing up.
31:44
So that is 1 thing they really surprised,
31:47
and they really like how sake is drink
31:52
like a cool drink. Now in Thailand.
31:55
Our...
31:56
Like, we start
31:58
ringing in the Nam Mh first in Highlands.
32:01
So we
32:04
we are showing, like, Sa can be really
32:06
lively too. Mh. It's like natural sparkling and
32:10
Yes. Season and you can taste, like, it
32:13
was more enjoyable than Yeah. Normal sake. So
32:17
that was the, first thing we did to
32:19
the hotels or those kind of, high end
32:23
restaurants. Like, okay. In this way, we can
32:25
pair with this like more much like this,
32:28
or we can do suggestion.
32:31
So that surprise breweries
32:34
Right. They really like it because
32:37
it's hot in Talent. And when they drink
32:40
their Nam okay.
32:42
It's really refreshing.
32:44
So they're saying, oh, drinking in thailand
32:47
feels better actually. Like, it's really nice. Like,
32:50
that's Sure was saying. So it was, like,
32:53
really
32:54
confident for us too. That was... Okay. They
32:58
really, like how we serve too. So that
33:01
was quite moment for us to.
33:04
In in terms of,
33:06
also,
33:06
customer. Yes. Boom, we we also have this
33:10
story. This
33:12
late latest event that we did in Bangkok
33:14
call, it was last month.
33:16
We had
33:18
need a hon coming to to Thailand. And
33:21
and and we had this event at this
33:23
1 Michelin star thai restaurant where we pair
33:27
nit lineup up with with thai food. And,
33:31
so people were making reservation. And and 1
33:35
person
33:36
actually reserve and say,
33:38
they're allergic to Sake. So they just wanna
33:40
join the event and not drink.
33:42
At the event we were there together, and
33:44
then we were just
33:46
a bit skeptical of how he's allergic to
33:48
the second. Did you say did you say
33:50
you I'm allergic to suck specifically? Or was
33:52
it I'm allergic to alcohol. It was specifically
33:55
sucky. Second. So... Well that's weird to begin
33:57
with this. You're you're allergic to alcohol me.
34:00
Right. So so I was skeptical. So I
34:02
I told him. Yeah. Maybe just try a
34:05
little bit. You know,
34:08
I'm not sure, have you tried this.
34:11
So
34:12
maybe just try something,
34:14
and then so Ab he did and the
34:17
whole night.
34:19
He could not be addicted guess. He really
34:22
Like They're like, 1 of those, you know,
34:24
miracle priests you know, Oh, I can see.
34:28
I can I can drink sucking now? What
34:30
did you do? That's amazing. Yeah. That's really
34:33
cool. Really enjoyed, and and he was, later
34:35
on telling me that, I had passed ex
34:38
ex... Bad experience with Sa. So yeah. In
34:41
the end, he he he said that. So
34:43
I'm gonna put you on the spot now.
34:45
And let's focus on ty cuisine and sake.
34:47
What is it about ty cuisine do you
34:49
think? And you don't have to answer from,
34:51
like, a scientific point you or anything. Just
34:53
did what you feel,
34:54
what you felt when you first tried Sec
34:56
and ent cuisine together. What is it that
34:58
makes it?
34:59
So such a good match?
35:02
So my perspective,
35:04
high cuisine usually eats with rice. Mh. So
35:07
basically,
35:08
like, made with rice. The sake is made
35:11
up of rice. So, yeah. This is, like,
35:15
really good much. First of all, and also,
35:18
Ty cuisine is
35:20
really a lot of brave in it. They,
35:23
like,
35:24
sweet, sour and
35:26
spicy, and those kind of combination, like, when
35:30
you drink with wine, it was too much
35:33
sometimes. But the with sake,
35:35
then,
35:36
somehow,
35:37
at that point, Sa became 1 part of
35:42
sweetness. Yes. 1 part of sourness. Yeah. So
35:45
that... This kind of layer of the taste
35:48
very well much with the sake. So I
35:51
really like that. It's very much integration. Right.
35:53
Isn't it. Yeah. When it comes to any
35:56
type of sa food pairing, but in particular,
35:58
thai thai cuisine and Sa, I kind of,
36:01
I come recon confirm that for myself last
36:03
night. Right. What about you Pump? And have
36:05
you had... You...
36:07
You Japanese cuisine is not your native cuisine.
36:09
Right? So
36:10
what was your kind of first experience trained?
36:13
Japanese cuisine? Maybe I'll put the question the
36:14
opposite way around? And how do you think
36:17
kind of ty cuisine pairs with Sake compared
36:19
to Japanese something maybe.
36:21
I think, of course,
36:23
from my experience,
36:25
Japanese cuisine is something that is very
36:29
authentic to the
36:30
ingredients. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So so
36:34
I think with that,
36:36
it actually is
36:38
a total different
36:40
world
36:41
comparing to thai. Okay. We have, like,
36:44
spices.
36:45
Yeah.
36:46
Wide range of flavor. Whereas, you know, in
36:49
Japanese Cuisine is is really respecting the
36:53
the ingredients. It's more simplistic. Right? Yeah. It
36:55
puts, like, 1 particular ingredient or 1 particular,
36:58
like, a group of ingredients center stage, whereas
37:00
tires is just kind of a lot of
37:02
different flavors. Right? And out. Yeah. Okay. And
37:05
and for me, I think
37:07
it's
37:08
sa is amazing in such a way that,
37:11
you know, with Japanese cuisine,
37:14
it
37:15
enhanced
37:16
When you do it... Oh, when you you
37:17
pair it together, it kind of enhance, like,
37:20
the flavor are kind of complementing each other.
37:23
And and and that's
37:26
1 side of
37:27
experience, sag experience with with with flavor. But
37:30
with Thai cuisine, like you mentioned is a
37:32
a lot of layers.
37:34
So
37:35
I I find it, you know, both very
37:38
enjoyable. Actually
37:40
I couldn't test to that. I think definitely,
37:43
there is a little layers in in thai
37:46
cuisine. And I think sort of Sake kind
37:48
of does a really good job of sort
37:50
of, like, just getting in between the layers
37:53
and sort of interacting in different ways. So
37:55
you get a very multi dimensional experience. I
37:57
have to say, there aren't many other cuisine
37:59
can think of where you get that same
38:00
sort of multi dimensional experience. So it is
38:03
quite unique. Yeah. I think. But for me,
38:05
I think
38:07
the key because are there's a lot of
38:09
spicy food. Right? Right. I mean, you know,
38:11
if you think you've had thai green curry
38:13
before and you thought it was spicy. I've
38:15
been told that in Thailand, it's on a
38:17
different level.
38:18
The problem perhaps when you're trying to pay
38:20
other alcoholic beverages, especially say, for example, spirit,
38:22
something with quite high alcohol, like like Sake.
38:25
The problem is that the alcohol tends to
38:27
exacerbate the spice. Right. The kick up the
38:29
end, which some people like some people don't
38:31
like so much, and it can make the
38:32
flavors taste a little better and sharp. Sa
38:35
doesn't do that. And I think the reason
38:38
why... And I was talking to anita Care
38:40
as well last night and they're sort of,
38:41
you know,
38:42
sort of saying that they felt the same
38:43
way.
38:45
Is the umami
38:46
factor that Sake has. Right? And would you
38:49
say there's a lot of umami in in
38:51
ty cuisine? Yes. Yes.
38:53
Because they have a lots of
38:55
fermented food. Sure their cuisine. Right. So that
38:58
is also, like, 1 factor that goes well
39:01
a lot. And also, we are bringing in
39:05
or kim techniques a lot. Yeah. That, gives
39:08
lots of natural mummy flavor a lot. So
39:12
that is really goes well with
39:14
noticed with the menu last night. Yeah. Like
39:16
you you were in my... You were in
39:18
my you know,
39:20
Mike 1 of my favorite kind of world
39:22
as so to speak, you know. And I
39:23
was actually... We were stood opposite this, lovely
39:26
lady, Susie,
39:28
she's a regular at your events, I guess,
39:29
her fan. And she was saying... She's Malaysia
39:32
I think it was right. And she was
39:34
saying that she's a massive fan of Kim
39:36
and Yamaha. And, you know, It'll it'll surprise
39:38
a lot of our Japanese listeners actually,
39:40
that foreigners,
39:43
or people outside Japan. Are so fall in
39:46
love with this category because it's not actually
39:48
so popular in Japan, I don't think Right.
39:50
In comparison. Right. The reason why we like
39:52
it so much. Is it's the layers. It's
39:54
the complexity,
39:55
and it's the, you know, da umami that
39:58
that you have with it. So I guess
40:00
in the end of the day, cuisine and
40:01
and that type of sake is, like a
40:03
synergy. Right? Which you can't really can create
40:06
with any other type of of beverage. Yeah.
40:09
Exactly.
40:10
And
40:11
it's funny because I didn't drink sake much
40:14
before Mh. This business. So that's why, like,
40:17
my way of shoe choosing the Yeah. Case
40:20
is, like, foreigners taste. So you answered my
40:23
questions from earlier. Finally.
40:26
But I like it. You you build up
40:27
the suspense. So Right. Despite being, you know,
40:31
a Japanese,
40:32
Say,
40:33
you didn't really drink a lot of sake,
40:34
which I think is the case for a
40:35
lot of people, in japan.
40:37
Although I don't wanna to generalize.
40:39
But that's a bit of a problem. Right?
40:41
So, okay. So
40:42
can you... Do you think maybe you you
40:45
have any kind of maybe there's any takeaways
40:48
that could be used to help
40:51
promote to increase the consumption of future. Have
40:53
you been working on that?
40:54
By any chance so... So that is what
40:57
we start doing it this year. Right. Like,
41:00
starting from even last night. I had a
41:02
feeling that might be 1 of the motivations
41:04
Yeah Yeah. Because
41:06
what we want to do is, like, keep
41:09
keep buying Sake from them. That it's supporting
41:12
for them, and that that makes it
41:15
supporting environment as well. Yeah. That is 1
41:17
thing, But the we cannot buy to support
41:21
1.
41:22
No. So that is not what we can
41:25
do, but the still like to make fans
41:28
in Thailand and
41:30
to see him or our guy, the sake,
41:34
she got the he ko kick
41:37
And the Sa and the she our sales
41:40
lady. And
41:41
she is talking
41:43
a lot passionate about us. I was really
41:45
impressed by that. Like, you all stood up,
41:47
like, at the beginning of of each of
41:49
them. Mh. And you sort of talked about
41:51
your passion in Sake and about, you know,
41:53
what the concept of the event was, but
41:55
also the explanations about the food and Sake
41:57
pairing as well were really detailed.
41:59
Mostly a Japanese audience night. Wasn't it. Right?
42:02
Had any of them... Any of the people
42:04
who attended have they been Thailand before? Did
42:06
you get a chance to sort of, yeah
42:07
chat to them? Yeah. What was the general
42:09
kind of feeling about the event from them
42:11
and they they're gonna reaction? Did it surprise
42:12
you or is absolutely? It was actually really
42:15
good feedback but, I even get a lot
42:18
of
42:19
direct message from them, and they were saying,
42:22
like, it was, like, wonderful. Then because they
42:25
really deep understanding of the
42:28
thai cuisine and how to pair with the
42:31
sake that surprised them. That is really our
42:34
confidence as well. Like, bring back to Japan,
42:37
like, where the original Sa started.
42:40
The we are the foreign company doing it.
42:43
But the... What they really surprised is also,
42:46
like what I mentioned Night c was talking
42:49
a lot about Hem
42:50
or Buddha and Yeah. Like those Japanese words.
42:53
Cheers she is passion
42:56
singing, and those kind of thing is quite
42:59
unique from the Japanese
43:01
perspective too. Yes. And how you know in,
43:05
by the information that Sake selling to abroad.
43:09
Mh. But you don't really see how they're
43:12
selling or, like, how much they actually like
43:16
or Mh. So and after that, how much
43:19
they can do for their pairing as well.
43:21
Yeah. And they're also, like, we want to
43:23
do, like, cultural
43:25
exchange with the Thailand. So our partner part
43:29
tom's husband. He is from
43:32
Royal family and that his royal family made
43:35
Mass curry. Yes. That was original recipe and
43:39
that was told in his family. And the
43:42
way he actually cooked from the scratch.
43:46
About the Moss curry at that event. And
43:49
that was really special moment for them to
43:52
experience, like,
43:53
actual original muscle that you can eat A
43:56
royalty as well. Yeah. Like, at least your
43:58
your royal family actually does something useful. Right.
44:01
Yeah. All the other real families in the
44:03
world, You know, Getting all the money and
44:04
just being sort of, you know, enjoying a
44:07
nice. Yeah. You're doing some useful providing amazing
44:09
curry for the populace, You know? Learn how
44:11
to cook and provide some amazing food for
44:13
us Uk your family in particular.
44:16
I joke.
44:18
So yeah. I I think I think that's
44:20
like, that's really, really interesting. You know, I'll
44:22
let you in on a little thing which
44:24
I've discovered doing some,
44:26
tourist Sa experiences in in japan.
44:29
I think it's easier for,
44:31
people from overseas to understand
44:33
what Kim and Yamaha is.
44:35
Because we have a similar kind of culture
44:37
when making
44:39
bread. We have a this type of bread
44:40
called sourdough bread. Right? And that also requires
44:44
a starter to make it. So, like, what
44:47
I do now when I'm when I'm teaching
44:48
people about sack and I have to talk
44:50
about the starter. I just say have you
44:51
ever made Sourdough over bread before? And they
44:53
look at me and go, Oh, the Sake
44:55
uses starter as well. There we go. Job
44:56
done. Don't even have to talk about what
44:58
it is. And and I think during the
45:00
pandemic as well, everyone was making either banana
45:02
bread Melanie pan in Japan or,
45:05
sourdough bread. And and Sourdough starters are made
45:08
in a very similar way to a kim
45:10
Yamaha also. Belgian beer as well. It's kind
45:12
of similar. It there's just... It's in our
45:15
culture already isn't it? You know, this whole
45:17
concept of making alcoholic beverages of fermented,
45:21
food products or you know, just using creating
45:24
this starter in the same way. Yeah. I
45:26
wanna I wanna kind of diver divert actually
45:29
into something a little bit different. And so
45:31
pound,
45:32
So
45:34
you went from finance to food. That's quite
45:36
a career move.
45:38
Yeah? Yes. That's quite a bold korea move.
45:40
But having worked in both worlds? Are there
45:43
any... Is there any kind of,
45:45
similarities might not be the right word. But
45:47
there any kind of interesting perspectives that maybe
45:49
you can bring to the world from the
45:51
world of finance?
45:53
Yes.
45:54
Or similarity. Mh
45:56
you short drink a lot in both worlds.
45:57
Oh, okay.
45:59
Yeah.
46:01
No. I'm about...
46:02
Actually, I think for me in finance, what
46:05
I did was
46:07
supporting client. I was in global markets helping
46:10
corporates to manage their financial risk and maybe,
46:14
an exchange rate or interest rate or a
46:16
commodity prices. Those kind of things that Mh,
46:18
I was doing. And
46:21
that is
46:22
me having to
46:24
support the client.
46:26
Right?
46:27
In in in Sake, I think it's the
46:29
same thing. What what we are trying to
46:30
do is actually we are trying to support
46:32
our customer, which are restaurants.
46:35
You know, we want their
46:37
food, they're
46:38
really good food who actually have some drinks
46:41
that are complemented with their food. So
46:44
I think in that perspective,
46:46
we we are trying hard from our outside,
46:48
like, we... When I was in banking to,
46:51
you know, research and
46:53
For for Sake, it's the same thing. Like,
46:55
we want to... Like, you mentioned. We actually
46:57
tasted that food,
46:59
some customer, we just go as customer files
47:02
us before we actually go and sell them.
47:04
So we know what, like, what type of
47:06
Sake we're gonna be, proposing to them. So
47:11
we did that. For me, when I changed
47:13
from
47:14
when I get into Sake, I also
47:18
did,
47:19
K sa and also Sa some caused. To
47:22
to actually,
47:24
support the the client at best. Yeah.
47:27
2 very best support the clients. So I
47:28
think that is 1
47:31
kind of similarity just we we're doing. Interesting.
47:35
So it's not just basically
47:37
exchanging a lot of money. There's a little
47:39
bit more involved with finance and,
47:42
impressed, we give it growth.
47:44
There.
47:45
Almost almost Again no worry.
47:48
So
47:50
what? Going back to the food in in
47:52
Sa.
47:53
Do we review you have a favorite sake
47:56
and
47:57
food match? Doesn't necessarily have to be take
48:00
cuisine.
48:00
So Mexican cuisine is quite popular in Thailand
48:02
as well. So...
48:04
Yeah Favorite Sake is so hard. Right?
48:07
It is actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard
48:09
to to pinpoint. I guess,
48:11
it depends on the
48:12
location, the food. Yeah. Yeah. It was there
48:15
anything you would recommend, like, a a real
48:17
kind of,
48:19
bombshell pairing that will just blow anyone way
48:21
you who tries it. The Everyone must try.
48:23
They're gonna try Sa if they're gonna try
48:25
a food match in your experience that you've
48:28
come across.
48:29
So yesterday, what we've done and everyone really
48:33
enjoyed was
48:35
the moo.
48:37
Mop copy. Yeah. It was, like, copy is
48:40
the fermented
48:41
little
48:43
shrimp.
48:44
Okay. That is from Thailand. And actually that
48:47
ka, Go,
48:49
grandma
48:50
made and that she brought in. And it
48:52
would so good and that kind of
48:56
food with the Pod
48:58
technique was really going well.
49:01
But
49:02
that
49:03
with copy, and we made it with the,
49:07
wild boar. Yeah. And mixed with the,
49:11
copy.
49:12
And
49:13
put on the tofu. And that is a
49:16
worm food, and it's not cold food. So
49:19
I
49:20
much with the wong
49:23
because in the mortgage. Oh,
49:25
no. And usually, numbers was okay, we shouldn't
49:28
do, like, warming up, But this cuisine, like,
49:31
we need to, match the temperature. Yeah. And
49:34
that that worked really well and that that,
49:37
most of them, they were saying, like,
49:40
how can you warming up cousin and this
49:43
is like actually good. So it was much...
49:46
It's like Is the Bud. Right? Who was
49:48
wasn't? It's not there. It's not their spritz,
49:51
like, sort of,
49:52
kind of, like, slightly sparkling. Fruity
49:55
Close. But, but it's a bit bit more
49:57
sort of savory and a bit more kind
49:59
of Right? Yeah. Right?
50:01
So there you go. That's pairing that you
50:03
absolutely must try
50:05
what about pam? What for, you know, at
50:07
what aspects of Japanese culture?
50:10
Do you like have you fallen in love
50:11
with? And how do you think Japanese culture
50:13
compares with? Times.
50:16
You don't have to make a comparison.
50:19
Well,
50:21
I actually like to japan a lot. I
50:23
come here. Very often.
50:25
Actually,
50:26
I I love... I think
50:28
with the couch it's too aspect. 1 aspect
50:31
is that,
50:33
they're really
50:35
into what they do. So whether be
50:38
growing fruits, making sake or doing everything,
50:43
I I find that Japanese really pay attention
50:45
to every single detail. Yes. Which is,
50:48
something that is very,
50:50
wonderful movie at admirable. Like,
50:53
my daughter,
50:54
always say, why is everything so good in
50:57
Japan like? Why everything I eat so good
51:00
every roots I
51:02
yeah. I I think that's 1 thing that
51:04
I like a lot about the culture.
51:07
And the other aspect is, while working with
51:10
Japanese.
51:11
Trust is
51:13
really really taken seriously here. And and for
51:17
us to do... To be doing business with
51:19
Japanese. It's really a con comfort, like. Find
51:23
it very comfortable where, like, you know,
51:26
I know that if
51:28
I'm good to them. If I'm always sincere
51:31
and trustworthy,
51:32
they're not gonna be trained me. They're not
51:34
just gonna, you know,
51:36
when when they trust their trust and I
51:39
I think I find that also very good
51:41
working with Japanese as well.
51:44
Thailand is Japan's sister, sister,
51:46
sister culture. That's really interesting to hear.
51:49
You have a particular project which caught my
51:52
eye called the 40
51:55
Creations. Yeah. And do I understand this correctly
51:57
that you want to create 40 creations? Is
51:59
that the goal?
52:01
Yeah. Why 40.
52:03
Did you just have a pick a number
52:04
and had a realistic 1 of that.
52:07
So I started, I was
52:10
20 something. Yeah. Okay.
52:13
I didn't imagine. I'm gonna be 40. So.
52:16
Close to 40 o. Yeah. But it's not
52:18
that 40, but the Yeah. 4 0 is,
52:20
actually,
52:22
in Japanese. She and what we can call
52:24
it. Of course. So, like, I wanted to
52:27
make, like, a really good wrinkle with through,
52:30
those projects so that is more like shoe
52:34
creations for me. So, like, I want to
52:36
be, like, really cute entrepreneur
52:38
grandmother's in the future.
52:41
So I was, hoping to
52:43
do the project for the, good wrinkle to
52:46
the people. So that it's my gold. You
52:49
clearly enjoy creating things Yes. Right? So you
52:52
have an a creative itch there? You know,
52:54
Have you scratched to that? Or do you
52:55
think there's still more projects in the pipeline?
52:58
Is there any projects in the pipeline.
53:00
So I hey. You can talk about? Yeah.
53:03
Now I'm
53:04
food sample
53:06
artist? Oh.
53:08
Do you know food something? I'm trying to
53:10
think food samples, of course. Yeah. Yeah Yeah.
53:12
Bake food. The the fake food that made
53:15
from, like, the plastic or something. Right? Right.
53:17
Which if you come to Japan, you can
53:18
actually learn how to make Right? Yeah. Mh
53:20
And I was born in gif. Mh. And
53:23
that that... Which is where it originates. Right?
53:25
Yes. I know that. And gif is, like,
53:29
good or bad but no 1 for the
53:31
fake. So
53:33
that is the our identity I can say.
53:38
Well, it's okay. It's a beautiful, like,
53:41
you know, national heritage. Yep. It's it's a
53:44
really beautiful environment. So maybe we can forgive
53:46
them for having this fake culture. Right. So
53:48
you are a food sample artist. Right. So,
53:51
Wake, give us as an example, what is
53:53
the latest creation that you're quite proud of
53:54
for you. So I start
53:57
doing from the outside because there is no
54:01
knees in Berlin. No. Other crude sample myself.
54:05
But I find out this is really
54:08
interesting, like, unique culture
54:10
because, like, Pam mentioned, like, we are into
54:13
all the details. Right? Like, we are kind
54:15
of Ot
54:17
mentality in all over japan. And
54:20
this food sample it's super Or taco because
54:22
Yeah. Like, when I talk to german person
54:26
about my project and she was telling me
54:29
directly that I really don't know what you
54:31
wanna do. With this. Because there is nothing.
54:34
You cannot eat and you cannot do something
54:37
with No. But
54:39
to create, like, really looks tasty thing, like,
54:43
with the older
54:45
your skills in it. Like, actually, it has,
54:48
like, more, like, 90 years old history or
54:50
something and I trained at the 1 lady.
54:53
They're 1 must, and I learned this skill.
54:57
But that this is kind of
54:59
so useless and so
55:02
cute.
55:02
And so amazing this. It shows so bad
55:06
so real.
55:07
You know, you can eat them, they look
55:09
really edible. They look really good.
55:12
You know. So if you come to Japan,
55:13
and you look at the windows of the
55:14
restaurants, like they all have these food sump.
55:17
It's big business in Japan isn't it? Yes.
55:19
Every restaurant will have food samples. Right? This
55:22
is also,
55:23
same as sake. I cannot say sake, but...
55:27
No. But I think I know where you're
55:27
going. Yeah. This is going to be, like,
55:31
shrinking Yes. Industry. Yeah. And the it was
55:34
a lot in Japan. But the it was
55:38
the
55:38
a moment like behind.
55:41
So I want to
55:43
use this technique to, like, when I do
55:46
it in
55:47
abroad. Then
55:49
I can show, like, other perspective of this
55:52
thing. So not just only, like, the showcase
55:56
of the restaurant, but there is no use
55:58
for that anymore. But maybe from the outside,
56:01
Mh it has
56:03
kind of,
56:04
different angle I can show. This is kind
56:06
of what we want to do in Sa
56:09
too. Like, we don't need to show like,
56:11
this was
56:13
older people's
56:15
thing or any kind of,
56:18
hub say, like,
56:20
stereotype? Yeah. Yeah. We don't have any stereotype
56:24
in abroad. Yeah. So we can create, like,
56:28
actual,
56:29
value that we can show. You start with
56:31
a blank canvas. Right. Right? With no pre.
56:34
Well well, maybe some pre.
56:37
Misconceptions. You start pretty much with a blank
56:38
canvas. Right. And you paint a new kind
56:40
of yeah. Picture about what Is. I think
56:43
that's the biggest advantage about Selling overseas isn't
56:45
something that you can't really do here in
56:47
Mh Japan, it's a bit tricky. Yep.
56:50
It's been really, really interesting
56:52
you know, chatting to you both. I learned
56:54
so much about high culture and
56:56
parallels that I didn't know existed. And also,
56:59
I'm really, really, really inspired and excited for
57:02
the future of not only
57:04
the Thai Sa market, but also, Sa in
57:06
general, I think a lot of it will...
57:08
You can kind of import back into Japan.
57:10
Right? Lot of the discoveries and,
57:13
marketing techniques and things, which I think would
57:15
be great for the Sake industry. Can I
57:17
finish by asking you sort of both to
57:20
You do you have any?
57:21
Anything that you wanna share with the listeners,
57:24
any projects that you want to share or
57:27
maybe a message to listeners, you know, anyone
57:29
who's thinking of visiting Thailand or?
57:33
Well, I I'd say,
57:37
try
57:38
Sake with Typhoon. Mh. I think that is
57:41
something that, you know, like, you mentioned not
57:44
many people have tried.
57:46
Yeah,
57:47
visit Thailand, and, if you visit, like, just
57:51
contact us, and maybe we can list up
57:54
our
57:55
wonderful clients, and you can drink sake with
57:59
thai food or sake with Mexican and Thailand
58:01
or
58:02
drinking Sake in Thailand. It's quite experienced. So,
58:06
yeah, I think that would be great if
58:09
you can do it. Wonderful. And we will
58:11
put, like, all the information about, you know,
58:13
your social media, and the websites and things
58:16
in our show notes. But
58:18
is that kind of, like a a social
58:20
media handle
58:21
you can share now?
58:23
Our
58:24
instagram is, Sa.
58:26
Sa.
58:28
Seekers us into go look look. Right? We
58:30
hunt... Stuck. We haven't... That's a great name.
58:32
Oh, I have a bonus question actually. So
58:34
this is kind of, like, I forgot to
58:36
ask this. So I'm gonna ask this 1.
58:37
The logo.
58:39
So Cindy and I were discussing this last
58:40
night. And the first thing that came to
58:42
mind is it's almost got like an Egyptian
58:44
hi kind of looked to it. Almost like
58:46
a cult
58:47
religion kind of religion... The religious cult look
58:49
to it. Was that intentional or what's the
58:53
inspiration behind in donald? Chili. I would
58:56
surprise in a good way with fifth logo.
58:59
Actually, thai team handled this local and poor
59:03
Japanese
59:04
if we do sa,
59:05
we're not gonna do this kind of logo.
59:07
No. I don't think so. Right? No. No
59:09
No. So this is, like, really
59:11
wow, moment to me actually with my logo.
59:15
So Yeah. Yeah. I think for us, well,
59:18
what we have a a designer. Yeah. In
59:20
in Thailand. And,
59:22
what we briefed them is actually, you know,
59:24
normally, like, we we want to
59:27
move away from the traditional
59:29
of Sake. Oh. Yeah. So so that's what
59:32
the the first brief is. And then, you
59:34
know, we seek second.
59:37
So
59:38
Yeah We we kinda wanna incorporate that. And
59:41
because we want to move away from nutritional
59:43
side, like, the brief was just you know,
59:45
we wanted to make it fun. It definitely
59:47
is important. Because what we are doing for
59:49
us as a, like, our culture is actually
59:53
we're doing it
59:54
because we enjoy it. Yeah. And and we
59:56
want our logo to reflect that. Yeah. Yeah.
59:59
I thought... It's just like it's the all
1:00:01
seeing
1:00:02
it's like your drinking like you have this
1:00:03
eye looking
1:00:05
but you drink second. Are you enjoying second?
1:00:08
But, yeah. I'm looking at you. But it's
1:00:10
gonna cool. It's very eye catching.
1:00:12
I think you you you couldn't create a
1:00:15
brand called Sa and not have an eye
1:00:16
on there. Something. Right Right. Okay. Well,
1:00:20
Thank you so much. Thank you both for
1:00:22
taking the time out of your very busy
1:00:24
schedule. I'm sure
1:00:26
to come and chat with us, chat with
1:00:27
me today.
1:00:29
I really enjoyed.
1:00:30
Listening to your story and learning more about
1:00:33
the the Tai market. And like I, I'm
1:00:35
really excited for the future. Thank you so
1:00:37
much. Thank you for us it was enjoyable.
1:00:40
Thank you very much.
1:00:42
And I think that will do it for
1:00:44
this episode of Sa.
1:00:46
Thank you very much for listening.
1:00:48
Please take a moment to review and rate
1:00:50
on Apple podcasts or whatever platform you may
1:00:52
be enjoying the show on and feel free
1:00:55
to send your questions and comments to questions
1:00:58
at sa air dot com. Or at sa
1:01:02
on Instagram, twitter and Facebook.
1:01:06
We'll be back with more Sa air in
1:01:08
just a couple of weeks time
1:01:10
until then,
1:01:12
camp.
1:01:13
Bye.
1:01:17
This episode has been made possible with a
1:01:19
generous support of the Japan Sake
1:01:21
Maker's Association. Sa was created by Pots k
1:01:25
productions and is produced by export Japan. Our
1:01:28
team is just in Pots.
1:01:31
Cindy bliss,
1:01:32
Sebastian 1, John Ga, Chris hughes, Rebecca Wilson
1:01:36
Lai, Marine Na, Christopher Pell,
1:01:38
Arlene Lyon and Frank Walter.