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The Warrens: Paranormal Power Couple · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and this is stuff you should know. We're into
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Now, Chuck, where do you think about that?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: How you feel.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I have high hopes for this year?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Oh man, do I really? I don't know.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I think you should. Okay, we should have high hopes
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: for every year and we can be let down, sure,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: but no, you could still have high hopes.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I guess I have my cynical hat on. So that
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: was a bad time to ask me that question because
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: we're talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren. As Julia said,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: who titled this one? I'm using this title even it's
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: great a paranormal power couple that you might know if
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: you've ever seen movies like the Ammadeville Horror. So we
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: talked about them in that episode for sure, or the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Conjuring Yeah, or was it the Haunting in Connecticut? Yep
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was another one. M h. They made a lot of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: money scamming people.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's really no well, I want
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: to say, there's no other way to put it. Plenty
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: of people on the internet put it differently, they were
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: the real deal, legit Ghostbusters demon Hunters. It just if
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you add up all the evidence in your incredulous and
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: skeptical you probably not only suspect the Warrens were frauds,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: but you might actually have a little disdain for him.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I say, we kind of present both sides, even though
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's pretty clear where we land. Maybe.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, have you seen Kpop Demon Hunters? No? Is it?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Kid?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I figured you guys would have seen that. I
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: figured you and you would be into that.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: What is is it on Netflix? Because we don't have
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: that anymore?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It's Netflix original?
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So okay, No, although they did show it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: In theaters, had sing alongs in the theaters and stuff.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Oh cute. I gotta see that.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just didn't know if it's a legit sensation.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: It's funny that we I don't know what we were
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: talking about, but the Conjuring came up not too long ago,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: and you said you hadn't seen it. Have you still
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: not seen it?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Since last week? I have not seen the Conjuring?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Do you remember how it came up?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I mean I think we were talking about the Raggedy
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: end All.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: That's right, and a Doll's up great memory. So okay,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I still say the conjuring up the first one is
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: a legendary, classic, great ghost horror horror movie. It's just fantastic.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So nothing changed since last week.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: No, but it could have because learning more and more
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: about the actual backstory behind it and just how exploitive
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: it was and how historically bent it is. Yeah, it
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: could have. It could have really affected how I view it,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: but I decided not to.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you can separate art from the rag doll for sure.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I can't, and I'm going to, by god, let's do
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: that right now.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: All right? So Ed Lorraine Warren they founded in nineteen
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: fifty two of the New England Society for Psychic Research
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: in Connecticut. Ed said, you know, self described demonologists, Lorraine
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: self describe clairvoyant and trance medium. And they formed that
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in Connecticut because they were both from Connecticut and looking
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: at their list of greatest hits, did a lot of
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: ghostbusting in Connecticut.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things you can credit them for
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: is they made the idea of like ghost hunting mainstream
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: all of the terrible, yeah, terrible TV shows that are
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: around today. All ohe their existence to the Warrens. Essentially,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: there were ghost hunters and psychical research societies and everything
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: around before them, but they were so huge into publicity
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and getting their stories out there that they kind of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: put it on the map as far as as far
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: as at least America is concerned.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So credit or scorn, they were the ogs.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Ed was I guess Warren was his middle name because
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: he was born Ed Warren Mainey in nineteen twenty six
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: in Bridgeport. He says that he grew up in a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: haunted house, so that's where he got his first jones
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: for this kind of work. And his wife was born
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Lorraine Moran Moran I think Moran Moran later Warren obviously
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty seven, just a few months later, also
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: in Bridgeport. Grew up very very Catholic and met and
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that'll play a part in their careers because it all
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: had a Catholic vant and they met as teenagers, got
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: married nineteen forty five when Ed was on leave from
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the Navy serving the World War Two, and then they
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: had a little girl, Judy, and Ed went to art
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: school and ironically that's where they got their start ghostbusting
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: because they were traveling around selling hawking his wares as
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: an artist, and they said, well, while we're here, we
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: might as well do some paranormal investigation, because that's what you.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Do, right, And if you are familiar at all with
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the Conjuring series, you're like already know all this. And
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: that was because the largest horror franchise in history, the
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Conjuring Series, is based on the Warrens files, the books
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: they wrote, the interviews they gave, the TV shows that
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: they consulted on. If you put it all together, all
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: of the Conjuring movies that started in twenty thirteen have
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: grossed at least two point three billion dollars, all based
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: on the malarkey that the Warrants came up with from
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the fifties to the I guess I think it really
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: kind of tapered off in like the nineties.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's kind of crazy to think, right,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: this just sort of average couple from Connecticut who were
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: doing their thing, Like I don't think anyone. I mean,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: they certainly saw dollar signs, but nothing like that.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: No, we have to say they never charged a dime
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: from anybody in need that they were helping. They didn't
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: make their money that way. They made their money through lectures,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: through selling their stories other people's stories. Frankly, they had
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: a museum that they charged money to come in and see,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: you know, entry, but they never charged the people that
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: they were helping, which I think is definitely worth pointing out.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't show up and say what do you got?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You got a demon and you got a ghost. That's
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: let me see carry the one. We can get rid
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: of that thing for five grand.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So let's get into this. They I said, it was,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of very Catholic. Their encounters were very
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: much steeped in Catholic dogma. We're talking. I mean, it's
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I say, it's right out of a horror movie, because
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: it literally was. People would speak in different languages. Supposedly,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: they were alleged like hoof prints appearing in the snow,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: levitating beds, levitating kids, foul smells, exorcisms, furniture. You know
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: that burnter is moving all over the place by itself.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Doors are shutting without any wind blowing, right, just shutting
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is a fifty something year career.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: They founded the New England Society for Psychic Research in
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty two. So they've been doing this for quite
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: a while, but they're they're all time. Huge cases didn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: really start to pick up until this seventies. I think
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the first one that people point to is like the
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: first big deal case was actually became the basis for
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: that first conjuring movie. It was the paren Family Haunting
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: with Carolyn and Roger Parrin and they had five daughters,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and they moved into a house in Rhode Island, an
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: old farmhouse that was built in the seventeen fifties I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: think maybe sixteen sixty seven round Top Road. It was
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: also known as the Old Arnold Estate, and they moved
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: in and they stayed there for ten years. But during
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: that ten year time, they had some really hard occurrences.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: According to them.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's a great way to say allegedly, because
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about how to mix that up.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: According to them.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm gonna use that. Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: The children were the first ones to sort of get
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: the haunt, and the parents didn't really believe that was
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: going on. They told their daughters like, no, you know,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you're just being little girls, of course, and you're seeing
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: ghosts that aren't there. But the parents soon got on
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: board and said, yeah, something's happening here. The beds are levitating.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: There's that awful smell. They did a little self research
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: before they called the Warrens and found that there had
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: been apparently a lot of really gruesome deaths over the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: history of that home, which is not unusual for a
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: super old farmhouse. So that's when they picked up the phone.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: They called the Warrens. I can't imagine what year was this,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, Like, how I mean, this is in
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Rhode Island. I guess word just gets around or maybe
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: they see a newspaper article or something, because you know,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: before the Internet, it was to me that all these
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: people just knew who to call.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I was wondering that as well. And I think in
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: some cases they didn't call. It's just people have written
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: that because there's so many cases, and they're so convoluted,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and they're so just you know, there's so much bs
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: around them that people just take total liberties with it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: So it's not entirely clear who called whom. But let's
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: just say they call the Warrens. Right, the Warrens showed up,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: they held a seance, and in the seance Carolyn is
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: thrown across the room, but first she starts speaking in tongues.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I think. Her daughter Andrea later wrote that she was
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: speaking in a language that never existed on earth, I think,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: assuming that this was a demon, that kind of thing.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And they traced the whole thing back to the spirit
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: of a witch, a dead witch. And we established in
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the bell Witch short stuff that a witch ghost is
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: the worst kind of both. And she had lived in
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the house in the early eighteen hundreds. Not only was
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: she a witch, she was a child murderer. She had
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: murdered an infant with a knitting needle, and so they
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: had the seance. Carolyn gets thrown against the wall. Nothing changes,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: nothing solid, and the Warrens are like, see you, thanks
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: for the story. You know, when the Warrens left, the
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: haunting hadn't ended, but the Pirons stuck it out. Her
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: parents stuck it out for ten years total, and then
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: when they moved out, the haunting stopped.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: That's right, And you know what we're gonna do here.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: We're gonna go over some of their greatest hits as
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: told by the Warrens and others, and then maybe we'll
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: come back later and sort.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Of pick them up part a bit, maybe if we
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: feel like the.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Next one, of course, is Annabelle. We talked a little
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: bit about the Doll and the Dolls episode. This is
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the early seventies in Hartford, Connecticut, when a nurse got
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: a raggedy and doll as a gift, and the doll
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: came to life started doing some cute things like Hey,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I'll leave a little note for the nurse, and or
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be you're gonna put me down in this chair,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to really go over in this room
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: just so you know that I'm fully animated and alive.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Like alf on the shelf kind of stuff.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the nurse was like, all right, this
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: is fine because I think this doll was haunted by
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a little girl who died in the house named Annabel Higgins,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and so I kind of feel bad because it's just
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a little girl ghosts. But eventually her friend, she had
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a friend that was physically attacked by unseen forces. I guess,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you know via Annabelle the Doll and ed. Lorraine says,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: we're called in, but I wouldn't be surprised if they
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: weren't minding the news and making some calls themselves, you
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, that would be my guest. Because
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: this is an era, the seventies. Man, you could call
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a newspaper and be like, I've got a haunted doll,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: my house is haunted, there's a ghost switch, and a
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: newspaper reporter would show up and write a story about it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Right, totally.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So yes, these stories did pop up the newspaper,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm quite sure that the Warrens were reading papers
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: for this one way or another. They showed up and
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: they determined, no, this is not the ghost of a
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: little girl named Annabel Higgins. This is a demon hanging
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: around a doll pretending to be Annabel Higgins in order
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: to get close enough to Donna, the nurse whose doll
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: it is, so that she can possess her soul. And
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: that was the story that they told. What do you
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: do when you got a demon?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Chuck? You bringing an exorcist. And that's what they did.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And this is my favorite part of this whole article
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: is this sentence. It's unclear if it was successful, since
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the doll continued to cause problems. Yeah, yeah, I'd say
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that didn't work then. And the Warren said, all right,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: we'll just we'll take that doll since the doll's not
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the problem, and one day we shall make a lot
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: of money from this doll.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they put it in their museum under glass, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: apparently they said a prayer of containment to keep the
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the doll and its attendant demon behind the class.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And I think it's worked because you know what, Apparently
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that doll just sits there behind the.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Glass, yeah, staring. But they said that the last people
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: who mocked at somebody who was visiting the museum died
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: in a motorcycle crash right afterwards. So do you want
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: to move on to the Lutzes, because I love the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Lutzes and what they did, and said.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this. We did a whole episode on this,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: so I don't think we have to get super detailed.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: But the Lutzes were the Amityville horror family. There at
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: one twelve Ocean Avenue in Amityville, New York. This is
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen seventies, and a real tragedy happened
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: here in nineteen seventy four at about three o'clock in
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the morning when the guy who lived there, Ronald de Feo,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Junior killed his whole family as parents is, four younger siblings.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: He killed them all as they slept by gunfire. And
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: then a year later the Lutz family moves in, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: they don't make it ten years. They make it about
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a month before they realized that mortgage was way too much.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly. They said that. Afterward, they went to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the press and said that they had experienced terrible odors.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Both George and Kathy, the parents had been possessed dish
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: maybe light, possessed that their daughter had made a friend
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: named Jody with red eyes, who is actually some sort
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: of pig ghost demon that no one else could see,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: although I think somebody caught sight of it. Fly swarmed
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: out of nowhere and almost made Rod Steiger throw up. Yeah,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: this one's the creepiest. I love it the most. Hoof
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: prints came out of nowhere in the snow outside of
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the house, and you know it has hoof prints.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And walks upright, talented goat.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: A talented goat, a pig ghost demon or Satan himself.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: That's right. So the warrens are are there. I'm going
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to just stop saying called in. They just appear out
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: of the ether. They do their investigation, and they said
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that they at first confirmed the presence of a child ghost,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: but then did a little more digging and said, actually,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: this is not a haunted house. Everyone and then Letzes went, oh,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: thank god, and they said, this is haunted land. The
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: very land under this house is evil. It was built
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: on Native American cemetery where they had some dark rituals
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: in the past, and this is what led Ronald de
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Fayo to kill his whole family. So sorry to be
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the bear of bad tidings, but you guys are in
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: bad trouble.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This is a one time seance that they held
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: where they found all this stuff out and they actually
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: one of the most famous photos of a ghost ever produced.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It's called the ghost Boy photo from the Amityville House,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: came out of this investigation, this one night investigation the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Warrens had. You've never seen the ghost Boy photo from Amityville.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Go type that in and check it out. It is
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: a creepy, really great, creepy, unsettling photo, especially if you
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: compare it to John Defao. I think he was the
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: youngest brother of the Dafeo's who were murdered by their
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: the oldest brother. It looks an awful lot like him.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people are like, there you go.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: The Warrens had it figured out. There's a ghost, there's
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Indian burial ground is now a trope thanks to them,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and we can thank them for poultry Geist as a result.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That's right, I say we take a break, yeah, yeah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk about three more of their more famous
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: investigations right after this. This is fun, all right, we're back.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I guess it's not too far past Halloween, so in
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: our minds, you know, it's not early January, so we're
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: sort of in that spooky mood. So this is sitting
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: quite well with us. But we need to talk about
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the Infield haunting, because this is not in Connecticut, my friends.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: This is in London, England, in nineteen seventy seven, and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Infield is a suburb of London and at the time
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: one Peggy Hodgson and her daughters were what were they?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: They were terrorized by unseen forces just like the rest.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: They move into this place, banging sounds coming from the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: daughter's room. Peggy bursts in and sees this dresser creeping
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: across the floor by itself, seemingly going toward the door.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: To block it, and Peggy was like, I got to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: get that dresser. It's out of control. But by the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: time she got to it, it was like it was glued.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: She couldn't even move this thing.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: No, this is the basis for The Conjuring two. Also
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: a truly great ghost movie, especially for a sequel.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: And is this London?
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's based on this. This is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: a very famous case that was also investigated by the
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Society for Psychical Research, which was founded all the way
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: back in eighteen eighty two, seventy years before the Warrens
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: founded their society. But they showed up because the Hodgson's,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: or i should say Peggy Hodgson, couldn't get any help
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: from the police and she had basically reached the end
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: of her rope because one of her daughter's Janet I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: think the youngest daughter was started falling into trances and
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: apparently was possessed by a ghost named Bill Wilkins, who
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: said that he had died in that same house, actually
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: in a chair in the corner, and that he wanted
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: everybody out because this was his house. And if you
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: see that movie, it's really well done and super creepy.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Have you seen all those movies.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I have seen those two. Oh okay, the extent of it.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: How many are there? Good? God, I mean things are
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: they conjured?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: So with the conjured, I think they're up to four
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: maybe okay, But then there's a whole other like subfranchise
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: with the Evil Nun. I think I've seen one of those.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's been off and stuff.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: And then the Annabelle stuff too, But I've only seen
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the first two conjurings, and they're good. They're good movies.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: They're hokey in a lot of ways. But yeah, as
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: far like a good, decent, even mediocre ghost movie is
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: so few and far between. There's so many terrible ones that, like,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I'll take whatever decent table scraps can be.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Trust at me.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you, Okay, I'll check it out. So,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: like you said, the Society for Psychical Research, is that right? Cycical? Yeah,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: they come in. They're competitors of the Warren of course
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: over there, I guess, and they observed, you know, all
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: the stuff they were talking about, like things levitating, furniture
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: moving of course, fires erupting out of nowhere, apparently, cups
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: just filling up with water when there is no water around. Supposedly,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: one of the researchers had a curtain that was slowly
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: creeping around his neck as if to choke him.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a skeptical society that believes in the
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: possibility of ghosts and poulsitery guys and stuff. But they're
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: not just credulous thing dongs.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Oh that society, what are they? The psycho society are Yeah, okay, yeah,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: all right, well that's good. Ed and Lorraine maybe investigated,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: maybe didn't. This is where it gets a little dodgy,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that in act three.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: But at any rate, in nineteen seventy eight, they said,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you got a polter, guys, that's what the deal is.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: And you know New Line Cinema. You want to buy
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: this story, we'll sell it to you.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did. There was a really cool documentary
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I saw where the so the spr made tons of
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: audio tapes, real the real audio tapes of this, and
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: somebody made a docu I guess a docudrama or whatever
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: where they used the tapes as all of the audio
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and then they hired actors to act out the stuff
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and the dialogue was the tape. So these people had
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to lip sync with the tapes, and it was all
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: done in period costumes and all that stuff from the seventies.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: It's really good. I can't remember the name of it,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: but I'm pretty sure that's the only the only documentary
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to attempt that. So if you can find that, watch it.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Did you ever watch that Zoom Call horror movie that
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I recommended?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty decent.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not bad, huh. Yeah.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I was really uncomfortable when they started making light of
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it in front of the psychic medium. That was the
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: thing that got me the most.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: It was, oh yeah, you know, yeah, plus you know
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: that they're going to get it, you know, even worse
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: because of that. What was it called, I think it
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: was called host I thought it was very well done,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty clever COVID movie when you know they
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: were shooting stuff in a as creatively as they could
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: because of the restrictions.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was a good movie.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. We got a couple of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: more here, the case of Arnie Johnson, also in Connecticut,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: very conveniently located in Brookfield. This was in nineteen eighty one,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and this one is interesting because there was a nineteen
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: year old named Arnie Johnson who stabbed his landlord Alan
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Bono or Bono twenty times. And in his trial he says,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not guilty, and they said temporary insanity and they
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: said no, no, no demonic possession. In the court went,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: oh boy, here we go.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I think this is the first time anyone ever tried that.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: The reason he said that is because he said, I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: really am possessed by a demon. My fiance, Debbie, her
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: little brother David, has been possessed by a demon for
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: a while, and we had an exorcism. And during the exorcism,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: to help David out, I dared the demon to inhabit
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: me instead. Well he did, and when I got into
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that argument with the landlord, that demon is the one
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: who really stabbed him, not me. Was defense. But I
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: think the Warrens showed up before all of this, before
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: the stabbing even and they took a look at David
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: and ed looks a little David up and down. It's like, yeah,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: you still got demons attached to you. You still got
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: forty three demons, that's.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Right, he counted them. That's why they had that exorcism.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Is the Warrens came in and said because Initially they
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: thought it was a ghost, you know, yeah, and they
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the the Glatzels who that was Debbie's last name,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the girlfriend they brought in clergy from the Catholic church
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to bless young David. That didn't work. So that's when
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the Warrens show up and they're like, no, it's demonic,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: it's not a ghost, and you need that exorcism. And
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: during that exorcism is when Arnie Johnson's like, oh, yeah,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: come into me, I dare you right?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And then the murder happens and they guy ends up
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: in trial Arnie Johnson. I think he went by Cheyenne
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: his middle name, and so the judge is like, I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: not even going to accept that as a defense. What
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: else you got? And they're like self defense And they
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: tried them on self defense and you got five years
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: in prison for manslaughter. So I guess they believe that
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: to an extent. That's not the end of that case.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: But that's a huge legendary case too. And then there
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: was also there was a movie called The Haunting in Connecticut.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It's awful and it was made kind of outside of
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: the Warren's purview, but this was a case that's largely
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: associated with them. That involved the Sneteker family.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: That's right. That was also very conveniently located in Southington, Connecticut,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: right there on Meriden Avenue. And this is a case
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: where two people at Carmen Reed and Alan Snedeker, they
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: got their kids, had four of them, and a niece.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: They brought them there to live because their son Philip
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: needed nearby medical care, kind of long term medical care,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: and it made it more convenient, so they moved in there.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: They move in and of course things start going down. Philip,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: who was the young six son, start seeing a threatening
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: young man with long dark hair who would just repeat
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: his name over and over. And then Carmen, I believe
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: was the mom, was in the basement and she was like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. There are toe tags and there's embalming
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: equipment here and photos of dead people. I wonder what
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: this house used to be, and everyone said, duh, it
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: was a funeral home.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Hallahan funeral home for decades, I think, pretty
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: much right before it became a home for rent. And
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: it turned out that Philip's room was once the display
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: room for caskets when they sold you the caskets, you know,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: they have like half caskets on the wall, that kind
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of thing. This is where Philip was sleeping. The embalming
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: room was just down the hall. The thing is Philip
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: needing this constant care of treatments for Hodgkins lymphoma type
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of cancer. They couldn't move, they couldn't leave the house,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: so they had to kind of stick it out, and
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: things just kept getting worse worse. Finally, Phillips started to
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: change and became very violent and was I think forced
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: forcibly taken to a mental hospital for observation and stayed
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: there for a couple of months. I think it was
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: finally diagnosed with schizophrenia. He moved out, he avoided the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: house again, and I don't remember if the haunting continued
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: or not. But one of the big things that came
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: out of this was an appearance and Sally Jesse Raphael.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: The title of the episode is I was Raped by
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a Ghost because Carmen said that she was repeatedly raped
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: by a ghost and the niece was fondled by a ghost.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: And the Warrens also show up on that episode, and
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: you can find it online. It's a Sally Esse Raphael
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: episode for sure.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you sent that to me, and I did my
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: best to script through and hit the highs. Right, shall
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: we take a break, Yeah, let's take a break, all right,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: We'll take a break and kind of up up with
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: what's going on with the Warrens in all these cases
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: right after this. M M.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: All right, chuck. So one of the things that gives
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the Warrens casework, I guess, credence in any quarter is
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: that this is all based on some kernel of truth.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Like Ronald Fayo did kill him his family in the
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Amityville house. That definitely happened before the Lutz has moved
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: in the house in that the Snetecker's rented was the
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Hallahan funeral home before they showed up there, and there
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: were like embalming tools still there left over. It turns
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: out that a man name named Bill Wilkins did die
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: in that house in Enfield in London, just exactly at
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the time that young Janet, who was apparently possessed by him,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: said that he had died in the same place that
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: she said he had died too. So there's like all
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: of this these different things that are just factual enough
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: to kind of provide a basis that can then be
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: kind of filled in with some fat, maybe a little
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: muscle and sinew to make a full blown, like you know,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: haunting story.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the Warrens, if you asked them
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: back then, they would say, hey, we kept a lot
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: of this evidence. They called it heart quote hard evidence
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: in different you know, artifacts and things. A lot of
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: this stuff was kept in the museum you know that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: they had at their house that they you could, you know,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: pay to go into and look over the stuff. Some
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of it was made public, some of it they held back,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: you know, they said some of the juiciest stuff they
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: couldn't even show. Of course, and in nineteen ninety seven
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and finally the New England Skeptical Society said all right,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: let's uh, let's get together, let's talk this out. Let's
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: look at this evidence that you've got. They brought out
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: that Ghostboy photo. Of course, they had audio recordings that
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: had these you know, strange sort of non languages or
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: other worldly voices. That was the one I think in
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Infield with Bill Wilkins like. They trotted that out and
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: played it. They had that Annabel doll. She shook that
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: doll and said, look what do you call this? H
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: She didn't shake it, of course, because it was stored
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: under glass, right. And then they had you know, witnesses
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and personal accounts from people that you know, testified not
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: in court obviously, but that all this stuff was you know,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: very real to them.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so these scientists evaluated all of their evidence
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and their means and methods and motives, and they decided
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that it's all blarnie.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: They said, yes, their quote by the way, yeah Barney.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really say blarney very often. I say malarkey,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I guess because I did at the beginning, but this
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: was I guess it was based on that quote. They
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: said they're not doing good scientific investigation, which I think
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: is generous to even assume that they're doing any scientific investigation,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and that there's like they come along, they say it's
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a demon, and then everything that they kind of all
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: the evidence they gather supports that hypothesis rather than gathering
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: evidence and then coming up with a hypothesis from it.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: And they basically were like, none of this stuff is falsifiable, testable, Like, yes,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: there's a doll right there that they say is haunted,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that's not evidence, right. Yeah, So they just basically said
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: that it's all. They're just total frauds. And if you
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: look at the history of the Warrens, this is not
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the first time that happened to him, It was not
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the last time that happened to them. They just rolled
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: with it. It never slowed them down. They never seemed
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: to freak out whenever they were called frauds or hucksters
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: or grifters, like they just either just shook it off
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: or they had some sort of response like Lorraine Warren
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: had in response to that New England Skeptical Society nineteen
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: ninety seven study.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she said, they don't base anything on a God.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Right, So if you don't bring God into it and
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: the idea that they're Roman Catholic god warriors fighting right
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: evil incarnate on Earth helping families for free, then of
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: course it's not going to make any sense to you egghead,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: pencilneck college boy scientists.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, one of the biggest criticisms of
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: their work and other work by other paranormal investigators because
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of these people use pretty questionable
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: techniques at times. So it's not like the Warrens were
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: any worse than a lot of them. But the fact
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: that a lot of times you can trace this back
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to maybe somebody in that household has some sort of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: mental illness going on and they're being exploited.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Like you can be like, well,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: it's all in just in good fun, but there are
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: actual problems with what they were doing, and that's one
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of them. And even if they weren't mentally ill, some
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: of these families did believe that there was something going
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: on and they were in some sort of crisis, and
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: the Warrens would come in tell them they had some demons,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: maybe give it a shot, maybe solve things or not,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: and then go off and sell the family's story as
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: their own case. Right. That's again how they made a
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: lot of money was writing books and giving lectures based
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: on these places where they just show up and then
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: take over the story and insert themselves. That's harmful. I
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: also saw that you can describe, at least in part,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the satanic panic that came along in the eighties from
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: them kind of normalizing the idea that people were out
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: there getting possessed by forty three demons, getting raped by ghosts.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: That was a contribution they made. And then also especially
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: these conjuring stories now if you watch them, Chuck, the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Lorraine and Ed Warren are portrayed as this couple who
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: have arguably the greatest marriage in the history of humans,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: and that they are just steam powered by God and
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. They're battling evil here on earth.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And so I think it kind of whips up like
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: a little bit of potentially misplaced religious version of patriotism
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and people who are religious.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, So you know, we can now talk about
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: some sort of maybe the claims against some of these cases.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: One of the claims was that the Warrens actually paid
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: a guy named Ray Gorton to completely make up the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Snedtecker haunting. They worked with an author, I mean, which
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is true. His name was Ray Gorton to write a
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: book about that case called In a Dark Place Colon
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the Story of a True Haunting, and Gordon in two
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine said that book was entirely fiction and
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: there are grifters because I was interviewing this family and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: the stories didn't match up from person to person, and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I took it to Ed and he said, quote, they're crazy.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: All the people who come to us are crazy. That's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: why they come to us. Just use what you can
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and make up the rest. Yeah. So that's one Snetecker case.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: That's one little piece of evidence. And this guy actually
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: wrote the book and was paid by it. I don't,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that he had much of
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: an ax to grind right the Enfield House. It's not
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: even clear that they investigated at all. The closest anyone's
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: ever put them to this haunting was one of the
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Society for Psychical Research Investigators. Guy, I don't know if
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: it's leon or lyon Playfair, he was one of the
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: lead dudes. He said that that at the very least
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Ed showed up maybe for an hour or something, was
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: hanging out outside I guess with them, and it was like,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: you know, you can make you can make some money
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: off of this if you want to do some business,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: and I guess Playfair was like I don't, I don't
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: do that, and so Ed was like all right, see
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: you and took off and then again took the story
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: as their own, Like if you watch The Conjuring two,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: they are basically the lynchpin to freeing this family from
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: this torment.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Amy Deville supposedly was a hoax. This all
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: came out. Later in nineteen seventy nine, there was a
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: lawsuit and the guy who shot up his family, Ronald Feo.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: His defense lawyer William Webber, said that he and the
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Lutz family made it all up one night over a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: quote several bottles of wine, and the Lutzes kind of
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: came out and said, yeah, that's pretty much what happened,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and Ed and Lorraine Wore were like, no, that's not
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: what happened, right.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I think Lorraine had a quote during this seance. So
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: they met George Lutz once when he handed off the
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: keys for them to go have a seance. They didn't
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: never meet Kathy. They never walked around the house or
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: worked with them. They had a one night seance where
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: that ghostboy photo was produced, which must have been just
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: jackpot luck for them because it looks a lot like
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: John Defayo in the face. But John to Fayo is
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: also wearing the exact same shirt that an assistant named
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Paul Bart who was there that night, was wearing. People
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: are like, well, he's probably taking a measurement or working
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: on equipment, kneeling down, and it just happened that his
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: photo was taken. But the idea that they had much,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: if anything, to do with Amityville is incorrect, except for
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: all the lore they made up, like the Indian burial ground.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: As far as I know, they came up with that,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: even though they got the trybrowng So the whole idea
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: of Amityville being as off the chain as it was
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: came largely from them, but also from the Lutz's story.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: They helped publicize it big time.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I looked up that house. It's been bought and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: sold quite a bit over the years. But someone eventually
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: changed those two upper windows. Yeah, that I don't know,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: just kind of looked creepy like eyes, I guess, But
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: now they're just regular windows.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I saw that the old Arnold estate that was in
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: conjuring one somebody bought it in like after the first
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: conjuring came out for like half a million dollars and
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: then pumped up the idea that it was still haunted
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: and sold it for a million and a half like
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: two years later.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: It's another in demand haunted houses pretty much. Yes, that's interesting.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: One of the biggest things that came out. Also, just
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: one really one thing before we go on. I would
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: direct anybody who's into that first Conjuring and knows all
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: about that house. To go read a blog called Dreaming Casually.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: A historian Jamie Rubio really looked into Bethsheba Sherman in
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: her history and apparently it is all made up to
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the point where she's essentially a slandered two hundred year
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: old person. Go read that. But I think probably the
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: biggest knock that the Warrens got came in twenty seventeen,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: long after they were international global stars thanks to the
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Conjuring series, and a woman named Judith Penny came forward
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: and said, Ed Warren and I had a sexual relationship
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: starting when I was fifteen, and Lorraine knew all about it.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like she moved into the house and supposedly
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: had a forty year relationship, and like you said, Lorraine
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: was okay with it. I think they had a you know,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: a business going. Penny said that she was impregnated by
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Ed and Lorraine pressured her to have an abortion because
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that would hurt the business, the family business. And this
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: is a big sort of red flag here. The Hollywood
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: reporter said that when Lorraine, because they got a bunch
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of money to consult on TV and movies, over the years,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, we've kind of made that clear.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: But Lorraine specifically had a deal to consult on the conjuring,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and she barred new Line from showing Ed and Lorraine
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: being as anything other than what you said, like this
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: sort of perfect couple. Specifically, it said no criminal offenses,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: no sex with minors, no child pornography, prostitution or sexual assault,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: or depicted as participating in an extramarital sexual relationship. And
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: just just so people know, this is not sort of
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: an normal kind of thing, even in Hollywood when they're
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: doing these big contracts about you know, supposedly true stories,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to include all that very specific stuff is not normal.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was reading that as well. So that's a
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: little odd, especially when you combine it with Judith Penny's.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Story that sounds totally true.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and again coming forward in twenty seventeen, it's
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: not like the moment the first conjuring came out, she's like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: give me some money, Like she seemed to have a
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: pretty I think she actually testified in an affidavit that
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: all of this was true too.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Tarnished their legacy a little bit, especially if peop if
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: you already thought they were grifters or hucksters or something
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: like that. It's not entirely clear whether they believed any
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: of the claims that they made. If they didn't, then
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Lorraine Warren was one of the great character actors of
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: all time who never broke character, at least in front
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: of anyone who is willing to come forward. And she
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: died I think in twenty nineteen, long after the Conjuring
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: had become huge. Ed died, I think sadly. The last
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: movie he got to see was The Haunting in Connecticut.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: He died in two thousand and six. So they're both
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: gone now. But the New England Society for Psychic Research,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: which again they found it in nineteen fifty two, it's
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: still going on under their son in law, Tony Spira,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: to whom quote all of their knowledge and experience has
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: been successfully passed.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: That's right, And at that annabel Doll is still around.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't think they have that museum anymore.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: That closed in twenty nineteen when Lorraine passed away, but
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Annabelle will show up here and there on tours and
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: special events.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, but they had a really cool museum from what
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I can tell. But it's shut down inexplicably, it's not
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: open anymore, and there doesn't seem to be any plans
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: to open it again. Yeah, but there's a new conjuring
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: movie out I think class really. Yeah, it's based on
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: a case that we didn't talk about, but there was
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse by demons as well. It was also in
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: the eighties, so that was their big thing. Then.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Who wants to see that?
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of millions and millions and millions of people
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: around the world.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Are they still super popular?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, and supposedly this one is like their last one,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: but they hand the reins over to their son in law,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Tony Sparrow, so he might become the new leader of
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the franchise along with their daughter Judy.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically like the new Marvel. Yeah, well, Chuck said,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: yeah everybody, which means, in old school fashion, it's time
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: for listener mail.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is just a quickie correction. Hey guys, I'm
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: listening now. And you might have heard this already, but
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Chuck was right in pronouncing villa. Oh hi, double Chuck.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: The double L sounds that Josh is talking about is Spanish,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: not Italian.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was saying, that.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Is really Christina in New York?
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Who is it? Huh?
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Who loves listening?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Christina, we appreciate that. I think a
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: few people wrote in to say, yeah, Chuck was right,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: that's fine.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: This is the only one I saw.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I'm happy. I'm happy for you, Chuck. Are you happy
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: for me for being happy for you?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Okay. If you want to get in touch with us,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: like Christina did, you can send us an email as well.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.