Latest / New Worlder / Episode #115: Olivia Chase & Steve Sprinkel

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Episode #115: Olivia Chase & Steve Sprinkel · New Worlder

• 0:00
  This is the New Worlder Podcast and I am one of your hosts,
• 0:03
  Nicholas Gill.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Olivia Chase and Steve Sprinkle.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: They are the owners of The Farmer and the Cook in Ojai, California.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: What is The Farmer and the Cook?
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  SPEAKER_00: It's a restaurant,
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  SPEAKER_00: cafe,
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  SPEAKER_00: bakery,
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  SPEAKER_00: farm market,
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  SPEAKER_00: and community hub in the middle of Ojai,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: California,
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  SPEAKER_00: plus a 10-acre farm that's just a few blocks away.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: The Farmer and the Cook opened in 2001,
• 0:30
  though Olivia and Steve have been in their own ways at the
• 0:35
  center of the American
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: organic food movement for decades,
• 0:38
  helping it grow from a radical countercultural idea in one
• 0:43
  small area of Southern
• 0:44
  California to this transformational influence on the American
• 0:50
  food system.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Organic food, vegetarian and vegan food, farmers markets, farm to table.
• 0:56
  These are ideas that entered into the American mainstream
• 1:00
  because of what started
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: to happen in this area.
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  SPEAKER_00: Today, they are often buzzwords corrupted by industrial food.
• 1:07
  Then there are people like Olivia and Steve that have not
• 1:10
  wavered from their original goals.
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  SPEAKER_00: They have stayed true to their ethos,
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  SPEAKER_00: growing,
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  distributing and serving nutritious food that is good for your
• 1:17
  body and doesn't
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  SPEAKER_00: destroy the environment.
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  They try to make nutritious food affordable and accessible to
• 1:23
  everyone in the
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  SPEAKER_00: community,
• 1:24
  not just the wealthy Angelenos that make their way to the town
• 1:28
  on the weekends.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: In our discussion where Julie was there on location, by the way,
• 1:33
  We talk about how the price of land has made it difficult for
• 1:36
  new farmers,
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  SPEAKER_00: but how organizations that they are a part of,
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  SPEAKER_00: like the Ecological Farming Association,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: as well as ALBA,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: are helping to train farm workers,
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  SPEAKER_00: many of them Latin American,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: to improve yields and access land of their own.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about hopeful gains in seed saving.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: which is helping make agricultural diversity more resilient.
• 1:58
  They are also helping preserve seeds from Gaza so that they
• 2:02
  don't disappear during
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: the war and they can eventually be reestablished by Palestinian farmers.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's really incredible what they're doing there in Ojai.
• 2:10
  I've been thinking a lot lately about the time it takes food
• 2:14
  movements to have real impacts.
• 2:16
  We're sometimes taken by surprise at how quickly food systems
• 2:19
  can be disrupted.
• 2:21
  I've seen it happen rapidly in the two decades that I've been
• 2:23
  researching food in Latin America.
• 2:25
  Sometimes we want things to happen in the other direction
• 2:28
  overnight,
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  but it takes time.
• 2:30
  Seemingly small actions like saving seeds and getting nice
• 2:33
  vegetables into the
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  SPEAKER_00: hands of consumers can have a strong impact
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: As time goes on, it might take decades before you can see the change.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's after your bones are down in the ground.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: But someone must have the courage to start somewhere.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's free to subscribe.
• 2:55
  The paid subscribers get access to all of the content and the
• 2:58
  back archives.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's newworlder.com.
• 3:01
  Also look for my books,
• 3:02
  such as the Latin American Cookbook at small bookstores
• 3:05
  everywhere.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also check out the New Worlder YouTube channel.
• 3:08
  We have full episodes there,
• 3:09
  including this one,
• 3:11
  as well as some clips and other video content.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just go to youtube.com slash newworlder.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And please subscribe, like us, and share us.
• 3:19
  Every Little Pit really does help this podcast get listened to
• 3:22
  and to give us the
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: strength to keep interviewing wonderful people like Olivia and Steve.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So please enjoy the show.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Julie is on location in Ojai.
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  SPEAKER_00: Julie, what have you been doing there?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
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  SPEAKER_03: helping them with different things,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: helping Olivia and Nick and Steve,
• 4:26
  and learning about the amazing projects they have had for 23
• 4:31
  years by now,
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  SPEAKER_03: right?
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: 22 years.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's started in... 2001.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: 2001.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the farm was going long before that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I've been farming since 1975.
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  SPEAKER_00: But the farm that you have now that you use with the restaurant?
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  The farm that I have now,
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  I started when the restaurant was already going.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I started the restaurant.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've had three parcels prior to that, but the current farm is...
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Since 2006.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the farm is, it can't be right on site, right?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's five minutes from the store.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's 10 acres, five minutes from the store, and it's in a semi-wild area.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's no neighboring farms.
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  SPEAKER_01: In other words, there's no one spraying anything nearby.
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  SPEAKER_00: No, that's my problem here.
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  Like I live in a semi-suburban area and everything I do is,
• 5:35
  you know,
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  I don't spray.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like that.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I have neighbors.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's a golf course, like not that far away.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it drives me crazy.
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  Like there's nothing I can do to really change the mindset of
• 5:49
  the surrounding area.
• 5:50
  And I guess for people that don't know,
• 5:53
  I mean,
• 5:54
  some people wouldn't even know where Ojai is.
• 5:57
  So I would like you guys to explain what Ojai is as a town and
• 6:01
  how did you end
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: being here or,
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: The thing here.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: So Ojai is 60 miles north of Los Angeles.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the smallest, most beautiful town surrounded by mountains.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it's old Spanish style buildings in town.
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  SPEAKER_02: We're like in the suburbs of Ojai.
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  SPEAKER_02: We're kind of in the poor.
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  SPEAKER_02: We're like in East LA part of Ojai.
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  SPEAKER_00: How big is Ojai?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's like 8,000 people.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it's like 20 minutes from the ocean and it's,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's really,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's hot today,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: but it's a really great place.
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  SPEAKER_00: Surrounding the farm.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to get back to Steve.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just, is it forest or what is it?
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  SPEAKER_00: What is the landscape like?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's, it's arid and forest.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's, there's some grasslands.
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  SPEAKER_01: The farm is in the middle of a, of a former prison.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the County of Ventura operated it as a,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: as an honor farm for many years.
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  And then they abandoned the prison in 2000 and went looking for
• 7:09
  a master tenant.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a very big operation.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's lots of buildings.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been there ever since.
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  SPEAKER_01: I've been there for, oh, 19 years or so, I guess.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so part of it is the prison property,
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  SPEAKER_01: but there's many abandoned facilities there that they don't use anymore.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, I use some of them.
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  SPEAKER_01: No one else would want to use an abandoned abattoir.
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  SPEAKER_01: A killing room.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there's a big building where they used to dispatch the animals.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's spooky in there.
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  SPEAKER_01: What do you do with that room?
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  SPEAKER_01: I hang all my garlic.
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  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense, I guess.
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  SPEAKER_01: I hang the garlic, and it's perfectly clean, but it's spooky.
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  SPEAKER_00: It scares away vampires and things.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are absolutely no vampires.
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  SPEAKER_01: When we started this year, there were 9,000 heads of garlic in there.
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  SPEAKER_00: So the farm's quite productive then, 9,000 heads of garlic.
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  SPEAKER_00: Is it all being sold, used for the restaurant and the market?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or are you selling elsewhere as well?
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  We have been selling elsewhere,
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  but all those market avenues are kind of drying up.
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  SPEAKER_01: A long-term friend of ours got interested in selling to Las Vegas.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a little unsavory because we're selling to casinos.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so when the government announced that they wanted to absorb Canada's,
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  SPEAKER_01: the 51st state,
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  SPEAKER_01: Air Canada stopped flying to Las Vegas.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so this has severely hurt that particular economy.
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  And then also the threats against China also hurt that economy
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  because the Chinese
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  SPEAKER_01: love to gamble.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so my business went from around $2,000 a week to 200 a week.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so then we started to shift around.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're growing lots of chili peppers to dry, for example.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we can be resourceful about what we're producing.
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  SPEAKER_01: And for example, with chili peppers or garlic, there's no panic.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's not a zucchini panic.
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  SPEAKER_01: Growing zucchini is a constant panic.
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  SPEAKER_01: Pick it every day and find out where to sell it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we're rolling with the punches.
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  SPEAKER_02: And you have a CSA.
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  And I also have a buying club,
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  a CSA,
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  a share,
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  a farm share operation for 60 people a week.
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  SPEAKER_00: All in Ojai or elsewhere?
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  SPEAKER_00: In Ventura, too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about the farmer and the cook.
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  SPEAKER_00: How did this amazing project begin?
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  SPEAKER_00: It was Olivia's idea.
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  SPEAKER_00: So she should.
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  SPEAKER_02: So my mother bought this old,
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  SPEAKER_02: actually old butcher shop,
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  SPEAKER_02: grocery store building with a hole in the roof in 1998.
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  SPEAKER_02: And she was kind enough to rent it to us.
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  SPEAKER_02: I bumped into Steve at the farmer's market and I said, I love to cook.
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  SPEAKER_02: You love to farm.
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  SPEAKER_02: What if we, you know,
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  join our forces and and start the farmer and the cook so we
• 10:36
  rehabbed the building
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  and uh my mother likes steve more than me so she she was very
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  generous with us and
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  and accommodating yeah thanks from the beginning everything was
• 10:51
  organic yeah well
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  see i didn't want to be organic i had another restaurant
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  previously in ventura and
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  i said to steve i said we'll never make any money if we have to
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  pay you know a
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  SPEAKER_02: premium of
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  SPEAKER_01: For organic butter.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for everything.
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  And at the time we could,
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  you know,
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  and then I just,
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  I'm pretty much of a pushover.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I said, sure, okay.
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  SPEAKER_02: But I had a moment where I said, no, we can't do that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said, sure, why not?
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  SPEAKER_02: Let's try it.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so then we couldn't get any organic meat because it was 19,
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  SPEAKER_02: it was 2000 baby,
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  SPEAKER_02: basically when we had the idea.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so we said, well, I guess we're going to have to be vegetarian.
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  SPEAKER_02: So,
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  SPEAKER_02: and neither of us was a vegetarian at the time,
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  but over time I've become a vegetarian and I had been in
• 11:37
  different phases of my
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: life,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: so that,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: so we just said,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: let's just do it.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, and we tried to keep it really simple and, uh,
• 11:47
  It was like a $500 used refrigerator from a thrift store and
• 11:52
  the broken down building.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're probably like ready to open now.
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  It's taken us like 24 years to,
• 12:01
  you know,
• 12:01
  now we're like,
• 12:02
  it looks good,
• 12:03
  you know?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a little bit, we were really, we opened up on a shoestring.
• 12:09
  We had like lots of advantages,
• 12:12
  like my mother being one and lots of disadvantages.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't have any money, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we opened on credit cards.
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  SPEAKER_01: A couple of credit cards.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the farm produce.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we grew a lot of produce and that underwrote the store.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: How did you decide about the menu at the beginning?
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  SPEAKER_03: Because you already had some produce available or not?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So in the beginning,
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  I had had another restaurant and it had been three years and so
• 12:41
  it had been enough
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: time
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  SPEAKER_02: since the last restaurant for me to feel like, okay, I can do it again.
• 12:47
  But I knew that it was complicated and I knew that employees
• 12:51
  and all of that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, let's make it really simple.
• 12:53
  We'll have a salad bar,
• 12:54
  which is a really fun story how Steve got the salad bar.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, we'll just have one item every day.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so we did that for about five years,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: like a tofu scramble and a stir fry and a pizza,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: all the ethnic foods that fit into vegetarian cooking.
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  And then I went to this conference called EcoFarm that Steve's
• 13:17
  the president of the board of.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And this anthropologist was speaking and he said,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: you should really think about your place,
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  SPEAKER_02: who you are and where you are and what grows where you are.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I just like just like on a dime, I came back.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, OK, you guys, all my cooks were Mexican.
• 13:36
  i'm half colombian we're in a mediterranean climate i said no
• 13:40
  more tofu scramble
• 13:42
  let's let's do mexican food because the ladies in the kitchen
• 13:46
  you know then they
• 13:46
  brought their recipes and they're proud of their recipes and
• 13:49
  they shared and and it
• 13:51
  just it was a really good decision and also with mexican food
• 13:54
  it's really great
• 13:54
  because with like like 10 different things you can make 20
• 13:58
  items right or with five
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: different things you can make 10 items you know just combining
• 14:04
  beans and tortillas and cheese and chilies time you you had
• 14:09
  japanese cooks too well
• 14:10
  yeah and then yeah yeah yeah oh hi seems to attract like a like
• 14:15
  an international
• 14:16
  community because of krishnamurti and i'm not sure why but it
• 14:19
  seems to be well
• 14:20
  known and so yeah we have two beautiful three beautiful
• 14:23
  japanese cooks and so then
• 14:25
  now we make kimchi too and whatever anybody wants to do if it
• 14:30
  sounds like a good
• 14:31
  idea we're like i said i'm pretty easy i'm like okay sure let's
• 14:35
  try it if it works
• 14:36
  we do it so now we have a little grocery store so we put like
• 14:40
  the kimchi not on the
• 14:41
  menu necessarily but it's in the logo yeah yeah you wouldn't
• 14:45
  say it's a mexican
• 14:47
  restaurant you wouldn't say it's a japanese restaurant you
• 14:49
  wouldn't say it's a
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Whole Foods Bakery.
• 14:53
  It's a little bit of everything together and beautifully
• 14:57
  talking,
• 14:58
  I'll say.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: To me,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: when I look at the menu,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking a little,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: a bit ago and it,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: it just seems very California,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 15:07
  just that place in the like purest sense of California produce
• 15:13
  and history and
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: cooking and multiculturalism and
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good point.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of cross-cultural really, you know, in a beautiful way.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of nice these days.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Local.
• 15:29
  I mean,
• 15:30
  privilege of having food from,
• 15:34
  you know,
• 15:35
  so short distance,
• 15:36
  almost zero kilometers.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess that helps somehow with the price for customers, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, our prices are low.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're not great economists,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: so we just...
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't have a bar,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: and a lot of restaurants really depend on a bar,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: but we have Steve Sprinkle is our bar.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like, he doesn't charge me for the vegetables.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that really underwrites some of our pricing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then...
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: We, uh, uh, the freshness is really a key component.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're not really married to a product per se,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: because we,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: we invested $40 in a box of Romaine.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if something is not working out, then.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: We feel it's okay to throw it out if it's not up to speed.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really a good quality because it's too old.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have to scramble to get those last nickels and dimes out of it.
• 16:39
  Yeah,
• 16:39
  that's the beauty of having a farm,
• 16:41
  I guess,
• 16:42
  and access to all of this freshness.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: When you began, what was Ojai like?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Has it changed a lot?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's changed a lot.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good question.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:54
  There was,
• 16:55
  there were two communes,
• 16:57
  one in upper Ojai and one in the river bottom.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so those were made,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: those were our people,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: especially in the tofu days,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: and they were,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: they were our employees,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: they were our customers.
• 17:09
  And,
• 17:10
  you know,
• 17:10
  as the price of housing has gone up,
• 17:13
  those people have drifted away.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where have they gone?
• 17:18
  Oh,
• 17:18
  back to Pittsburgh and,
• 17:20
  you know,
• 17:21
  wherever they came from,
• 17:22
  you know,
• 17:23
  various places.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: and our business has gotten better also as tourism has increased a lot,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: probably,
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: especially since like 2020,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:39
  including starting with COVID because I think COVID a lot of
• 17:43
  Los Angeles was shut
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: down when,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: when Ventura County wasn't.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So people were coming here.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we were discovered in 2020.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Has that kind of changed the nature of the town,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: all of these kind of people coming from elsewhere,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: opening businesses,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I assume?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:00
  Yeah,
• 18:01
  there's probably been one,
• 18:03
  two,
• 18:03
  three,
• 18:04
  four,
• 18:05
  five new restaurateurs from L.A.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: have come to Ojai in the last two years.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a lot of new restaurants.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: For 8,000 people.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:20
  And the population of the town goes up by thousands during the
• 18:25
  weekend because
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: there's a major resort.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: The Ojai Valley Inn is here.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: There are some major hotels and motels.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then people also stay in Ventura.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So during the weekend from Friday through Monday,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very busy.
• 18:44
  So it's a mixed blessing because our business is very busy on
• 18:48
  the weekend.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And our biggest problem is parking.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's also a place for spiritual retreat, you know, Ojai.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I didn't know that.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I literally know nothing about Ojai.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have an idea of where it is now, but I've never been.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're one of the few.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was curious about,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: because it seems,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: when you say the tofu days is funny because
• 19:21
  it seems to be part of this counterculture movement of
• 19:25
  restaurants like Moosewood
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: and even Alice Waters with all the,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: the macrobiotic movement too of this healthy eating,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time,
• 19:36
  you guys were using your own intuition to pull up from the
• 19:40
  human aspect of it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like what is the nature of our cooks?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: What the people that we are working with us
• 19:50
  can contribute with right so it seems to me that it started as
• 19:54
  part of this uh
• 19:56
  general energy going about healthy eating but then you make it
• 20:02
  what makes sense for
• 20:03
  oh hi you guys and people working with you and then it starts
• 20:08
  to flourish as the
• 20:10
  unique project that it is yeah yeah it's kind of like a
• 20:13
  snowball you know it's kind
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: of
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of picked up different things as it's gone along.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But we still,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: because of our beginnings and because I also studied nutrition,
• 20:24
  we still are the place where you can get vegan cashew cheese in
• 20:27
  a burrito,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: which isn't very common.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we have like gluten-free and vegan cookies and both.
• 20:35
  gluten-free and vegan you know so yeah we let the customers
• 20:40
  design the restaurant
• 20:41
  yeah we we still accommodate that kind of tofu world yeah yeah
• 20:46
  and it has grown i
• 20:47
  mean it's organic but it has grown in a very organic way yeah
• 20:51
  not every product
• 20:52
  restaurant can say yeah for real yeah for real yeah that's so
• 20:56
  true uh you know i'm
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: curious nick about the background of the two of them uh like
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: how did you start farming and you studied nutrition and how?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm one of the college dropout organic pioneers from 50 years ago.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: From where, though?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where did you grow up?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I learned how to garden organically in Santa Cruz, California.
• 21:25
  Santa Cruz,
• 21:26
  California is the center of the organic farming movement on the
• 21:32
  West Coast.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: and now 50 years later,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: the organic farming research foundation,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: the sort of California certified organic farmers,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: the Ecological Farming Association,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: so many other Wild Farm Alliance,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: so many other organizations are there because of Alan Chadwick.
• 21:58
  Alan Chadwick came from England in the 60s and started an
• 22:02
  organic farm at the
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: University of California at Santa Cruz.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And from that moment on,
• 22:08
  things just grew and attracted people and things became very
• 22:15
  professional.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now you have the Organic Farming Research Foundation,
• 22:20
  which has definite ties and communication with Washington with
• 22:24
  regard to research
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: in the organic field.
• 22:28
  So that's where I started,
• 22:31
  there,
• 22:31
  but that sounds grandiose,
• 22:34
  all that stuff.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we're just,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: like many of us,
• 22:38
  we had our gardens and then they got too big and then we had
• 22:42
  too much produce.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And right around that time, the co-op movement started.
• 22:47
  So when the farms got so big that Governor Brown and the
• 22:54
  legislature started the
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: farmers market movement in California.
• 22:59
  So then the farmers market was the place where all the organic
• 23:02
  farmers went with
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: all of their produce because there was not an established market.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: There were very few distributors and very few retailers.
• 23:15
  And so I farmed in various places in California and in Hawaii
• 23:18
  and in Texas.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I landed here in 1999 when I met Olivia.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: I sold her produce when she had her bakery, the city bakery in Ventura.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I left to go to Texas and she left to go to Hawaii.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when we both came back to Ojai,
• 23:45
  now we were both divorced from the people that we'd been
• 23:48
  married to at the time.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I sold her a kabocha squash at the farmer's market.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'd had a terrible crush on her earlier.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was so perplexed and tongue-tied, I completely forgot her name.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do with the squash?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: She forgave me eventually.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I bought it for school.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: for my son's school Pollock.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Nice try, Steve.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for me, it started with, I think a trip back from Colombia.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: We stopped in Mexico City and we went,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: my mom took us to the market and I saw the pig head under the glass.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I became a vegetarian.
• 24:35
  And so then if you're a vegetarian,
• 24:37
  then you need to know about nutrition.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so then it evolved from there.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I,
• 24:43
  I go back and forth being a vegetarian and not being a
• 24:46
  vegetarian,
• 24:46
  but yeah,
• 24:47
  I was.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: When did you open your restaurant in Ventura?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's a good question.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think 80, I was there for seven years, like 88, something like that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: 89.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was a bakery or?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was a bakery cafe.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:01
  I'm just wondering,
• 25:02
  like I grew up in Ohio,
• 25:05
  you know,
• 25:05
  like organic food and vegetarian food.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: for me in the 80s, was basically non-existent for the most part.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Vegetarian food was still this obscure thing.
• 25:20
  But I'm wondering what this movement was like for you guys at
• 25:25
  that time there.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: It had to have been completely different.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: In California?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: This movement.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: We knew that there was a tradition of vegetarian food
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: dedication and cuisine in Ojai.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the chief sponsors was the Indian philosopher Krishnamurti.
• 25:50
  And Krishnamurti came from a long line of other vegetarians who
• 25:55
  he was familiar
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: with,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: like Alice Huxley,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Bernard Shaw,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Annie Besant,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: people that now are like 120 years ago.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so Krishnamurti attracted vegetarians.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the name of the restaurateur on the ranch house?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Ellen Hooker.
• 26:16
  Then Alan Hooker was kind of his personal chef and was just
• 26:19
  down the road from
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: where Krishnamurti lived.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we knew there were many devotees of Krishnamurti living here.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was one of the reasons why,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: other than the fact that meat was so expensive,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: we decided to be vegetarian.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: and it was kind of a something,
• 26:39
  an aha moment came when one of the first county health
• 26:44
  inspectors came to inspect
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: the store.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you don't cook me here at all.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we said no.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, wow, you really made my job easy.
• 26:57
  Because meat contamination is a key feature in health
• 27:02
  inspection because you always
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: have to keep these services clean.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a meat station.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's all you do there is meat.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: You don't ever cut zucchini.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a struggle.
• 27:15
  And people,
• 27:16
  of course,
• 27:17
  wanted to have meat,
• 27:17
  but we weren't going to give it to them.
• 27:20
  But the last thing I was going to say was that we didn't know
• 27:24
  it at the time.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: You could hear them.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Just on the other side of the hill, it was the vegans.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: The vegans were coming.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the vegans were coming and they saved us.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so when the vegans came, they said, what?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't cook meat here at all?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You mean there's no vegetarian option?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said, no, we don't.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: They said, oh, this is our place.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so the vegans,
• 27:50
  and they have this elaborate organization of Happy Cow and all
• 27:56
  these helpful
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: organizations that direct people to restaurants like this.
• 28:01
  The vegans are kind of like co-sponsors of the restaurant
• 28:05
  because so many of them
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: gravitate here.
• 28:08
  It's a very Californian place and it tells the story of
• 28:13
  California in many ways.
• 28:15
  The spiritual one,
• 28:16
  the farming one,
• 28:17
  the politics-wise,
• 28:18
  people-wise,
• 28:20
  right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think the vegetarianism and the 60s rebels kind of go hand in hand.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what I find interesting,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: it was this kind of bubble of vegetarianism and fresh food,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: this very California idea of living that
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of spread across the United States.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of set the chain in motion for,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: the next,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: the last,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: 20 years of what was going on in this area.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering, what were the challenges in that?
• 28:58
  And are there other places where it kind of lost the sense of
• 29:03
  what it was supposed to be?
• 29:04
  Yeah,
• 29:05
  well,
• 29:06
  one of the challenges with vegetarian cooking is that meat's
• 29:09
  delicious,
• 29:10
  you know?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's fatty and it's umami and it's all of that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so then you have to make up for that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, for instance, we do a fish taco and we batter and fry a mushroom.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: But so now we've replaced meat,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: which,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: is higher in the food chain and high in saturated fat with a fried food.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's an interesting question as well.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes, you know, like if I...
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: I,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: if I want to serve somebody the healthiest food imaginable,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: it probably isn't,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: the,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: the fried mushroom,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: but you know,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: it's still lower on the food chain.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's always good.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, yeah, yeah.
• 29:49
  And you know,
• 29:50
  you need,
• 29:50
  you need some fat,
• 29:51
  you need some flavor,
• 29:52
  you know?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's that challenge with when you replace meat,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: it,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: it,
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: it's hard to just replace it,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 30:01
  speaking of tofu again you know ounce for ounce of tofu it just
• 30:05
  you know it's not
• 30:06
  going to fly you really need you know that's why you know all
• 30:09
  the tofu stir fries
• 30:11
  are asian because there's soy sauce and all of those umami
• 30:14
  flavors yeah yeah but
• 30:15
  i'll say i mean for personal experience the first time that i
• 30:19
  visit this place yes
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: that is true but on the other hand because eating is so sensorial
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because you are stimulated in so many ways in all your senses.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think at least there is a part of you.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a super meat eater,
• 30:35
  but I still think meat eaters will forget about it because
• 30:40
  there is so much to look
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: at,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: so much to learn,
• 30:43
  so much to taste and to just like absorb with your eyes and the
• 30:48
  energy of the
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: place.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: So the flowers, the plants, the diversity of veggies,
• 30:53
  the menu is rich,
• 30:54
  all the shop,
• 30:55
  options of the shop,
• 30:57
  the people are great.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you kind of forget about it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure a lot of our customers aren't vegetarians.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: But they,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: once they're here,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: they are open,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: eyes open for a different thing and a story you want to share with them.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the quality is really important as well.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's much harder to be a vegetarian in Ohio,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: shopping out of like Kroger and,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:30
  and just the vegetables are all just total shit coming from who
• 31:34
  knows where there's
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: no flavor whatsoever.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: They last forever.
• 31:39
  Like,
• 31:39
  you know,
• 31:39
  you,
• 31:40
  it's scary how long like an apple lasts,
• 31:44
  you know,
• 31:45
  it never rots.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it sits there for,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: for months sometimes.
• 31:48
  I go home to my mom's house and it's like,
• 31:52
  I saw this the last time I visited.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same apple.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's harder to,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 32:01
  get people to appreciate vegetables when they're so bad like
• 32:04
  that or fruits.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have fresh vegetables, like grown in the best way,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Meat really doesn't compare.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Meat's so boring, I think, sometimes.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Even though our body craves it a little bit sometimes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us, at least we think we do.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's so boring.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Vegetables are so much more interesting.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have anything over $20 on the menu?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's the highest price?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think the veggie burger is $16.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to a restaurant and you look at what they're charging for meat,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of astronomical.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like $28 or $32 or $42.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's really a lot of money.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or even for a salad.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of appalling,
• 32:55
  but we've managed to keep our prices affordable and the quality
• 33:01
  dependable enough
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: to have lots of repeat customers.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: People move here because of the store.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: I am sure.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's important to have access to these things.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's in a way,
• 33:24
  it's good that meat is expensive there because in a lot of the
• 33:28
  rest of the country,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: meat is cheaper than vegetables.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can get Brazilian beef, you know, from the Amazon for nothing.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: nobody realizes that's where it's coming from,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: but it's cheaper than a,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: than a squash,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's cheaper than everything else.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the sad thing.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe if meat was more expensive in other places, it would be easier.
• 33:53
  Like if it actually,
• 33:54
  the price reflected the ecological cost of the ingredient.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the meat production that you have in the Midwest.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like every other farm has got a herd on it or,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: they're involved with animal livestock production a lot more.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not here.
• 34:16
  You rarely see livestock unless it's a dedicated ranch with
• 34:21
  cattle on it,
• 34:23
  you know.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: What about dairy?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: How is the... So do you get the dairy products from
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: like brands you like?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it's really hard.
• 34:35
  I mean,
• 34:35
  when we first opened,
• 34:36
  we couldn't get organic chilies and we still can't.
• 34:39
  So Steve grows those and we couldn't get really odd things like
• 34:43
  coconut milk and
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: tarragon,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: dried tarragon.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just odd things.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: But now you can pretty much get any,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: except for some of the fine cheeses like gruyere and things.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: We still kind of get the basic cheeses.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: We get the cheddars and the jacks and the feta and Parmesan.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we were getting organic Italian Parmesan,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: but now we're not able to get that,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: so we're just getting domestic.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: But the goat cheese is organic and bulk is really hard to get,
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: so we get that from a farm in Idaho.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: But most of the dairy besides that goat cheese from Amalthea,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: we get from just off the truck from UNFI.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: But the other thing that's also harder with organic food
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: compared to my first restaurant is,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: we don't get the five gallon buckets or the five,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: the three pound,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the three pound chunk of cream cheese.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we're opening, you know, small packages.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: So economically it's,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: we're paying,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: the higher price for the smaller packages versus the bulk.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: That part of organic hasn't happened as well.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: As much.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you sell in bulk?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have bulk bins.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're kind of like a little meat market.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: We have some,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: some grains,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: nut butters,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: nut butters that we grind and little produce,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: a little produce department,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: like eight vegetables and,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: then a lot of pastries,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of cookies.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: In Olivia, you're Columbia, you're Colombian.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Was it where did you grow?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Did you grow up there?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: You grew up in California.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in Seattle till I was 12 and then California.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I lived with my grandmother in Columbia for six months when I was seven.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went back when I was 16, when I was 45.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the last 10 years, I go back a lot, almost every other year.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, love Columbia.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you like to go?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we go to Cartagena.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: We go to, my family's to Medellin.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: I have 45 cousins, so.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you and Julie are probably related.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: We look for it.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure because my dad's last name is from Antioquia, Duque.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was impressive.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Very vague.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: But there is that too.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I think about often is kind of this organic farm movement and,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: just small farm movement and farmer's markets.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: In all of these things,
• 37:17
  they've gotten a lot of media attention and it's wonderful and
• 37:21
  they've all been
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: growing.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
• 37:24
  so many small farms are disappearing and industrial agriculture
• 37:29
  in the United
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: States is only getting bigger and bigger.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: How do we reverse that trend?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: There seems to be a new wave
• 37:44
  of younger farmers,
• 37:45
  we've sort of noticed it for the last five to 10 years and it's
• 37:50
  increasing.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them come and go and we've had,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: we've trained a lot of them also and have connection with a lot of them,
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: but we've seen them give up because it's too hard or because,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 38:06
  because it's too hard and it's too complicated with all the
• 38:08
  marketing and the,
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: and the driving and the actual farming and the,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: and the management,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: the farm management,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: but there are some,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: there are some farmers,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: young farmers that are,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: they're staying with it.
• 38:19
  And so this organization that I've been affiliated with for
• 38:25
  serious affiliation for
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: about 18 years,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: eco farm,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: the ecological farm association.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a conference every year that 1800 people go to,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: and we have a significant play in scholarships.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Many organic,
• 38:44
  new organic farmers are recruited and we try to get them to go
• 38:48
  to the conference so
• 38:49
  that they can build community and experience what we
• 38:53
  experienced 45 years ago.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we first started going to eco farm.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of these conferences all over the country.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's some,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: there's some really big ones in Wisconsin,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: in Pennsylvania,
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: in Michigan and New York and in Georgia.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there's, there's,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: ample opportunity for them all to learn about it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of new farmers that are starting,
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: but they don't have the benefits that a lot of us have.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: For example, access to land.
• 39:24
  We really benefited by having access to land because there were
• 39:31
  so few farmers at
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: the time,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: and now there's interest in maintaining and keeping all this ground.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: So there's
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: getting a lease or a rent or even buying ground.
• 39:44
  For years,
• 39:45
  I told them,
• 39:46
  if they asked me where they should go,
• 39:47
  I said,
• 39:47
  you should go to Iowa.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why Iowa?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cheap.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how cheap it is now,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: but I worked in Iowa during the 90s,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I was appalled at how cheap it was.
• 39:58
  I mean,
• 39:58
  you could buy a 100-acre dairy farm,
• 40:00
  and they'd give you the tractor for $100,000.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: it was very cheap.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so cheap there?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Iowa was all the,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: all the farmers were aging out and there,
• 40:12
  and a lot of the kids have grown up being appalled at all the
• 40:15
  hard work of running
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: a dairy or,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: or,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: or,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: or waiting for a hail storm to kill your corn crop.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, they just, they just all moved to the city.
• 40:26
  And so there was a lot of farmland that was available when I
• 40:29
  was working there.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, um,
• 40:33
  I and I've watched the prices go up since,
• 40:35
  but it's nothing like California.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Acres in California are $100,000.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's like, and it's not even close to that in the Midwest.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And these pockets of fantastic opportunity all throughout the Midwest,
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: like in eastern Nebraska,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: northern Missouri,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: these little valleys that are everywhere.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just like in California,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: nobody really wants to own 40 acres in a valley,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: but some up-and-coming farmer would.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Eco farm is the name of the,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: of the,
• 41:11
  of the conference ecological farming association is the name of
• 41:15
  the sponsor.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we have, um, we have three, uh, events.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: actually almost four events,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: but we have,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: we have a,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: an all day event in Northern California,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: which is mostly for kids,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: for,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: for families with children.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they go to, to the farm full belly farm in Yolo County.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they experience, uh, hose down, put your hoe down.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you're stopped working.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it means.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so we, we do that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this is,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: that's a,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: and also there's,
• 41:47
  there's this farm full belly farm is probably the best organic
• 41:52
  farm in the country.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they are very diversified.
• 41:55
  They have lots and lots of different kinds of crops to grow
• 41:58
  flowers and they have
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: sheep and they have walnuts,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: some of that they're very,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: very diversified.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then.
• 42:05
  The owners give tours of the farm,
• 42:08
  and that's really one of the highlights.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: We can't do that at EcoFarm at the conference.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have the conference in Monterey every year.
• 42:17
  We go and visit farms,
• 42:19
  so it's not like being on a farm for that period of time.
• 42:23
  And so we've been reaching out to young farmers with good
• 42:28
  results,
• 42:30
  and not just Anglos.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's an organization called ALBA,
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: which reaches out to Latin American farmers,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: chiefly Mexican farmers,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: and gives them an opportunity to learn how to farm.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: There might be a farm worker, you know, just cutting broccoli all day.
• 42:50
  But then they go to work at ALBA and they learn how to be a
• 42:55
  diversified vegetable farmer.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it creates a pathway for them.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're...
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Intentionally opening that up.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: We need to visit, Nick.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds amazing.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: There is a story about the mill that it's behind Steve and Olivia.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: This?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us about it.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're kind of impulsive.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we went to a talk at Ecofarm.
• 43:33
  Mr.
• 43:33
  Fry from Fry Vineyards was growing Sonora wheat in between his
• 43:36
  grape crops.
• 43:38
  And he had brought this beautiful loaf of bread that he had
• 43:41
  grown the wheat,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: ground it,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: baked it.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And me and three other employees decided that,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: the three employees decided that they had to grow wheat.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so Steve helped them.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: They found some land in Upper Ojai.
• 43:54
  They actually didn't want to have anything to do with us,
• 43:56
  but they wanted to be their project.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so they planted the wheat.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Am I missing anything?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I took the irrigation lines up there,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: the pipe,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: the big,
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: big aluminum pipe up there so they could irrigate their wheat.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it didn't rain.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we bought them a harvester, a combine.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: The combine broke and they wouldn't fix it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they were naive dilettantes.
• 44:22
  But we bought this elaborate,
• 44:25
  fantastic piece of sculpture,
• 44:28
  this Austrian mill.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's called an Auster roller.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's an Auster roller, yes.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a beautiful thing.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Steve grows polenta.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: He grows polenta, and we grind the polenta in there.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then we bake bread, so we add some kamut.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a lot of local wheat and grains around?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's one company that dedicated themselves to it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: What's her name?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Candarian.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, down in the woman with her bakery.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: What's her name?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Christine?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we don't remember.
• 45:17
  There is somebody who's very big,
• 45:18
  and she owns land in the Imperial Valley,
• 45:21
  and she does.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: She has the air-conditioned combine.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: She has all the, like, we put the cart before the horse a lot.
• 45:27
  She has,
• 45:28
  like,
• 45:28
  everything lined up,
• 45:29
  and she...
• 45:30
  She knows what she's doing.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just wing it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're just wing it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kentar Farms.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Kentar Farms.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Kentar Farms.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a wheat country.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be wheat country, but now it's avocado country.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So is that a good thing or a bad thing?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the land is too expensive.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: In California,
• 45:57
  you have to grow artichokes or strawberries or something that
• 46:00
  brings in a high
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: price in order to pay the rent.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because most farmers here don't own their land like they do in Ohio.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Probably.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: They usually lease the land.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's expensive.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll let people in Kansas grow the wheat.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll grow the avocados here.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't grow the avocados in Kansas.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: So agriculture in California evolved.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: It started with wheat.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we used to grow lima beans here without irrigation.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was the lima bean capital of the world.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they grew sugar beets here.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then they started planting walnuts.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then they started planting citrus.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Once they got irrigation,
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: once we got irrigation,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: once we dammed the rivers and got dependable irrigation supplies.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then the citrus and then different kinds of citrus.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're going back here to olives.
• 47:02
  and yeah and so there's there's uh always a a uh an evolution
• 47:08
  of going from one
• 47:09
  crop to another this this place at one time uh was famous for
• 47:14
  apricots and you
• 47:16
  still see occasionally 10 little acre apricot orchards without
• 47:22
  irrigation you know
• 47:23
  so but then they're all gone now now they're all growing now
• 47:26
  they're growing pixie
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: tangerines and avocados
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: But they are also,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: there is this like big project growing organically and abundance,
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: but they have within that broader project,
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: they have smaller projects that are less visible.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like for example,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 47:51
  one of your chefs was just telling us she grows the Kogi for me
• 47:56
  for the kimchi.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: at her place.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I was asking her, why at her place?
• 48:02
  And she said,
• 48:03
  because here is too,
• 48:04
  it needs pampering and it needs this and this.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: So Olivia is growing that in her own place.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And she brings the Kogi for the kimchi.
• 48:14
  So,
• 48:15
  you know,
• 48:15
  there are like these little leaflets that make that kimchi
• 48:19
  taste delicious.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: There is another one like Steve is...
• 48:26
  acting as some sort of a bank seed for Gaza because he got in
• 48:33
  touch with some
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: people that are losing their seeds because of the war.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: if you send some,
• 48:40
  I'll grow them here and I'll protect them so that when you guys
• 48:45
  can grow again,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: we can send them back.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of seeds are those?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of things are growing?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: There are some seeds that are typical for that part of the world.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Watermelon and arugula.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: And arugula is a wild plant that grows all throughout the Mediterranean.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a certain moment,
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: probably in February or March,
• 49:09
  when the entire countryside in Greece and in the Levant and in
• 49:13
  Morocco and in Spain
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: and Italy are covered with wild arugula.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: So they all have arugula.
• 49:21
  So this Palestinian arugula was different from the arugula that
• 49:26
  we have grown here.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we watched it grow.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing we had to do is when it started to flower,
• 49:35
  we cut all the flowers off and that made the plants branch out
• 49:39
  and make much more
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: seed.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we harvested the seed for this Palestinian arugula.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: a week ago.
• 49:49
  And I think that we must have gotten 30 or 40 pounds of the
• 49:53
  seed for them.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we also have okra.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okra is a crop that originates in Africa.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so does watermelon.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Watermelon's from Africa?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:09
  And let's see,
• 50:10
  what are some of the other things that,
• 50:12
  those are the ones I'm growing.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we got these seeds and then my seed broker,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: the one I do my seed growing for,
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: that's a part of a little seed project we have.
• 50:24
  Then he sent some of these seeds to his other farms that he
• 50:30
  communicates with so
• 50:32
  that we could actually be diversified in case I had a problem
• 50:36
  that all the seeds
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: wouldn't be in one basket,
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: which is smart.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Although we've done pretty well with all the ones that we're growing.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's incredible.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are preserving Palestinian agricultural heritage.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: What else can you do?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: What else can you do to affect the outcome here, you know?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing that somebody thought of that in time.
• 51:01
  Yeah,
• 51:02
  it was an article in the Guardian newspaper from Britain that I
• 51:06
  read.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, when was that?
• 51:08
  I guess about this time last year when we started communicating
• 51:13
  with them and
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: setting up a planting schedule because you can't plant certain things.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can't plant ochre in the winter.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't plant watermelon in the winter.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: And to get seed from the arugula, that had to be planted in February.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then it wouldn't freeze.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: So things like that, you had to plan ahead.
• 51:35
  From your experience,
• 51:36
  has the seed network in the United States improved in recent
• 51:42
  years?
• 51:43
  I've heard so many stories about Monsanto and all these
• 51:47
  chemical companies
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: controlling the seeds and the pesticide cycle for so many years.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: But in the last few years,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's been a little bit of a shift,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: at least at the media.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to tell how true it is.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: That there are a lot of regional seed companies,
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of seed savers,
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of rural communities,
• 52:12
  indigenous communities that are trying to preserve a lot of
• 52:16
  seed heritage and
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: they're trying to get them to,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: at the very least,
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: gardeners.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have all kinds of
• 52:23
  heirloom seeds in my garden,
• 52:27
  just right over there,
• 52:27
  that I never had before.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I probably couldn't have got 10 years ago.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a good thing?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just kind of hype?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there an actual change?
• 52:45
  It's kind of a change because the Seed Savers Exchange started,
• 52:50
  I think,
• 52:50
  in the 70s.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in Decorah, Iowa.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of people would find out about the Seed Savers Exchange,
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: like me,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: and they immediately gravitated to it.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I bought seeds from this organization.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a cooperative of other seed savers.
• 53:09
  And they have an elaborate catalog of all of these heirloom
• 53:12
  seeds and how many are
• 53:15
  left and the watermelon varieties that have died out and that
• 53:20
  you can't get
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: anymore.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like really a sad story.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: But they saved what they possibly could.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's grown up.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so in these little organizations all over the country,
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: like the ones in Wisconsin or in New York or in Texas,
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: everybody's saving seed.
• 53:41
  And then they all go to these conferences and then they have a
• 53:43
  seed exchange.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the seed exchange at EcoFarm is like church.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a really big deal.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there's...
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: a hundred or more seed savers who have brought all their seeds.
• 53:58
  And there's a gigantic pile of scion wood from orchards that
• 54:03
  they've cut off so
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: that people can go and get grafting material.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these guys are so incredibly organized.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Every single limb has got a name on it.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really crazy.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so they're doing their best.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's scary.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: The seed industry went through a huge consolidation and monopolization.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the things that they could not touch were the open-pollinated seed.
• 54:34
  land race,
• 54:36
  things that were in the common control of the general populace.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: The hybrids belong to the people who hybridize them.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Monsanto is kind of scary because,
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: they're the flagship of this genetically modified business.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 54:59
  We've been able to hold them at bay and actually grow our
• 55:03
  sector better and faster
• 55:05
  and be more resilient than they have because they're having so
• 55:10
  many problems with
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: genetically modified agriculture.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of scary for them.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, that sounds promising in a way.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: More of it.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like some of my,
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: much of my work and Juliana's too is in Latin America,
• 55:29
  where I think there isn't so much of this network of people
• 55:35
  protecting seeds.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: there's small communities,
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: indigenous communities,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: rural communities,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: but they're not very organized.
• 55:45
  And,
• 55:46
  you know,
• 55:46
  there are land rights are definitely an issue all over the
• 55:51
  place.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's scary because I feel like just over the last 20 years,
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen how quickly things can change.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: Or legislation.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, legislations.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there have been some positive things.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like Peru banned Monsanto.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: At least they keep doing it for every 10 years or something.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: But one day, they'll probably bribe someone to change something.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of other countries, it's kind of the same thing.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: It just depends on whatever administration is...
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: in power and how they got there.
• 56:26
  But yeah,
• 56:27
  it's scary,
• 56:28
  but that gives me hope that something is happening in the U.S.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: to where,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: even if things are progressively getting worse,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: there is some kind of backup plan.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there is a movement in Colombia now called Guardiantes de Semillas.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 56:48
  And I also put you in touch with one of the leaders because he
• 56:52
  lives in Medellin.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: And they are doing amazing work.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they have progress.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's tough.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: But when you look at the numbers and the amount of people they involve,
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: it's like the economic thing.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that small.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not as visible.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they're grassroots,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_03: mainly,
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: with the help of some organizations like SwissAid and some,
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: yeah.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: But mostly people just working for it.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: I have to put you in touch with him.
• 57:26
  And I guess it's harder in the tropics too,
• 57:28
  you know,
• 57:28
  to grow organically.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, organically.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: But mostly they are trying to go back and do research about native seeds.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: More about the seeds.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: More about the seeds.
• 57:40
  So the diversity of corn,
• 57:42
  potatoes,
• 57:44
  a bunch of leftovers in Colombia,
• 57:46
  Peru,
• 57:47
  the Andes.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's mostly how to protect the diversity of the seeds.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 57:53
  the knowledge base is important to understand first because two
• 57:58
  of the most
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: significant crops in the world originate in northern South America,
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: sweet potatoes and potatoes.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're growing everywhere.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you go to these small markets,
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: these campesino markets,
• 58:17
  and you see the piles of the heirloom potatoes that they've
• 58:20
  been growing for
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: decades and centuries,
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: that is the database.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Olivia grows Criollo Colombian potatoes.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: I tried.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: I tried.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: Criollo Colombian potatoes.
• 58:37
  what happened they didn't okay so the first crop i grew in a
• 58:41
  wine barrel and the
• 58:42
  potatoes that came were like that big tiny yeah yeah and then i
• 58:46
  grew i waited and i
• 58:47
  planted those and i got nothing i got one purple potato so now
• 58:55
  i'm just growing you
• 58:56
  know some some potatoes from peru but i bought them from
• 58:59
  somebody in texas just in
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: my car
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think you're more acclimated to our daily.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I was so careful with my Colombian potatoes.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: I would cover them at six o'clock.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: So they thought they were in Colombia.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it was full day and night.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they didn't go for it, though.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: They grew, but they didn't produce.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: that's one of the hardest things to translate here is the yellow,
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: the little yellow,
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: high in vitamin A.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought that was kind of special.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Potatoes are so boring in the US,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: there's so like devout of nutrients most of the time.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's so sad.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: I like the wild ones.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:43
  I wanted to ask you,
• 59:45
  you,
• 59:45
  you were saying,
• 59:46
  well,
• 59:46
  it looks like there is hope and what?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: what will you say gives you hope and what keeps you going?
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 59:54
  it's not that you don't have enough reasons to keep you going
• 59:57
  because your
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: customers and all the amazing things that happen here.
• 1:00:01
  But what will you say is that driving force that is inspiring
• 1:00:07
  you guys after all this time?
• 1:00:12
  The customers and their genuine affection and dedication to us
• 1:00:21
  and the store.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really so embarrassing.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: It really is with the things they say.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think you take that in.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: subconsciously almost, and then that ends up being your basis.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: I always felt proud because,
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: it's not like we're changing the world,
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: but I always felt proud that we're supporting all these organic farmers.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: So if I buy organic vanilla and it's twice as expensive,
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: but I know that that means that somebody's going to grow it and Tahiti,
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: or wherever.
• 1:00:58
  So that makes me feel good,
• 1:01:01
  even though,
• 1:01:01
  you know,
• 1:01:01
  I'm just a business person,
• 1:01:02
  right?
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not really,
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: like an activist or anything,
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm doing my little piece,
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not that little.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: Really nice employees, huh?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: There is no lack of love here for sure.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: Plenty.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: Plenty of flavor and ethics.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing that we like, yeah.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: They like it.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: They really like it that it's legit,
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: that we walk our talk and we're not trying to fool anybody,
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: and it's not fake.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it really is a farm ran to cook, you know.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:45
  And people,
• 1:01:46
  that's kind of like they're so relieved that we're not trying
• 1:01:50
  to snow them.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, because that's a problem.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think restaurants, markets, I mean, what would you call a project?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you call it a restaurant?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you call it a bakery?
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you call it a farm?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: I always call it a store.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: A store.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: You sell things.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is a restaurant and a store.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's mostly a restaurant.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's a little bit of grocery.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, monetarily, that's where the money comes from.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: The restaurant and the bakery.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also like a community hub.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hub of information.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes gets overlooked,
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: just beyond dollars and cents that come and go.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: The impact that you can have just by showing people that,
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: this grows here,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: this can grow here.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really does have this kind of snowballing effect.
• 1:02:50
  It's quite impressive that you guys have been able to keep it
• 1:02:54
  up for 20 years now.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're pretty tired.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've had a lot of help.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a lot from our associates, our, our, our employees, for sure.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Many of them are still here after 15 years or so.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got a lot of help from the community.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: People have like,
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: what's Liz's the,
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: the people that they live up on the hill,
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: Larry,
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: her last name,
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: Memel.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Liz Memel has been at the store every day for the last 15 years.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: that's something you can't,
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: and her husband buys a pizza here every Friday.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is something you have to, you can't recruit people like that.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: They find you, and then they're your friend.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we met some great people.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: They published a book two years ago.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about the book.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a cover of it?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's one over there if you want to grab it.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's called The Farmer and the Cook.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, beautiful.
• 1:04:05
  He's a writer,
• 1:04:06
  and he writes these beautiful essays once a week,
• 1:04:10
  and so it includes his poetry.
• 1:04:13
  We had an employee who was a cartoonist,
• 1:04:15
  and so she drew up a really funny cartoon.
• 1:04:19
  of our lost and found with like a six-handed glove and funny
• 1:04:24
  funny things of a
• 1:04:25
  landscape yeah beautiful so it took about two years to to write
• 1:04:30
  the cookbook or to
• 1:04:31
  put it together it was the hardest thing i've ever done but i
• 1:04:35
  really wanted to like
• 1:04:38
  honor the people that made it you know because it's definitely
• 1:04:41
  not just steve and i
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know we have 55 employees and
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: We love them, you know, and a lot of moms, their kids work here.
• 1:04:49
  We have,
• 1:04:49
  I think,
• 1:04:50
  six different moms who have children that work here,
• 1:04:52
  one or two.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is a newsletter, right?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the forager newsletter, yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 1:04:59
  And there's a lot of his foragers that I did put in here honor
• 1:05:04
  the farm workers that have...
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: worked hard for our success.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 1:05:10
  it was kind of just a tribute to the employees and just a way
• 1:05:14
  to say that,
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: we're proud of what we did.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it has, obviously, many delicious recipes.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Olivia wrote the whole book on the kitchen table.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: She put it all together.
• 1:05:29
  Of course,
• 1:05:29
  she had professional help eventually,
• 1:05:31
  but,
• 1:05:32
  you know,
• 1:05:33
  she's very dedicated about it.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_03: Spring Asian menu.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Do you see the empanadas in there?
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sweet chard and zucchini and chiladas.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's delicious.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: All the empanadas.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_03: We'll have to try the Colombian arepas.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is my whole family eating empanadas.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: Just our favorite Colombian food.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the pipián empanadas.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're big.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: Pipián?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, those are my favorite ones.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love the pipián too.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: The peanut.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, the peanut sauce, yeah.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that many empanadas that size.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: You have to give credit to the people to put them together.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: You need a big family for that.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: Bigger than mine.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and you can get that on your website?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: I guess on our website, yeah.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've sold about 2,000.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good amount.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's through the store and the website.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: To the intangible community.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: What are some of the intangibles?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is one of your... I know, right?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's why.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: I have to... I mean, I'll say all the...
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: Values, you know, the things that matter.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like you really feel the homemade cook.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, it's not homemade cook food because you come to get it here.
• 1:07:09
  But you really feel the difference in how the food tastes and
• 1:07:14
  it's fulfilling and
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: feeling,
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: you feel the care,
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: you feel the authentic work.
• 1:07:25
  right the honesty the community the support to other people i
• 1:07:31
  mean it's all ethics
• 1:07:32
  that that's intangible and uh and and love so it feels like you
• 1:07:39
  know as as food
• 1:07:41
  should be and restaurants should be and the food chain should
• 1:07:45
  be so i think it's a
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: beautiful example of of
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: how things to work in a local community.
• 1:07:53
  But what I admire too is the ability to stay local,
• 1:07:59
  but still having a cosmopolitan vision.
• 1:08:02
  Because when Steve is reading The Guardian and helping these
• 1:08:04
  guys in Gaza and,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:08:07
  being informed of what's happening out there and traveling when
• 1:08:11
  you can and
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: bringing all these people with an open mind,
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: it's just a great balance,
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you say too local,
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: maybe you become local,
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: conservative,
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_03: self-contained,
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: and it's the opposite of that.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: I guess tourism helps, but it's not only that.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's your attitude and approach to things.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's really nice speaking with you both and hearing your story.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: As I said,
• 1:08:37
  it gives me hope to just see all the things you're involved
• 1:08:41
  with and what just a
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: restaurant and a restaurant store,
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: whatever you want to call it,
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: in a town of 8,000,
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: what it can do and the impact it can have.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: We need more places like that.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was about to say, I think it's a great example of food activism.
• 1:09:02
  How can you be an activist from the kitchen and the farm and a
• 1:09:09
  community around food?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: But while just running a business, you know?
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 1:09:15
  Is there something else we have to say to have you here on this
• 1:09:19
  side of the country?
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think she wants you to fly here.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's an invitation.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, I would love to.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: I need to come one day.
• 1:09:31
  I love Southern California,
• 1:09:33
  but it's like I've only been a couple of times.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: But just like L.A., really.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think San Diego once.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, it's beautiful there.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure where you guys are at, it looks and sounds amazing.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: So one day.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you both.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real pleasure.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: We love your podcast.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks, Julie, on location.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks to them for having me.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everyone, for listening.
• 1:10:07
  That was Olivia Chase and Steve Sprinkle from The Farmer and
• 1:10:11
  the Cook in Ojai,
• 1:10:13
  California.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Check out their book.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Check out their market, restaurant, cafe, bakery.
• 1:10:19
  farm whatever it is whatever you want to call it it sounds
• 1:10:22
  pretty great and it's
• 1:10:24
  it's a place that i think is has had a lot of impact whether
• 1:10:28
  you know it or not in
• 1:10:30
  the way you're eating if you're in the united states what what
• 1:10:33
  these two people
• 1:10:34
  have done and what they've contributed to so thank you everyone
• 1:10:39
  for listening um
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe to the newsletter if you haven't already.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just go to newworlder.com or look for New Worlder on Substack.
• 1:10:50
  And thanks to my friend Pat Buzzard for providing the music to
• 1:10:54
  the show as always.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_00: See everyone next time.