Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Jennifer Arnise Talks 'Black Mother Wound,' Survival Vs. Healing Within Black Families + More

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INTERVIEW: Jennifer Arnise Talks 'Black Mother Wound,' Survival Vs. Healing Within Black Families + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Every day a week ago up the Breakfast Club.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all, Dune.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Morning, everybody is d j n V. Just hilarious.
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  Speaker 4: Charlamagne the God we are the Breakfast Club. Law La
• 0:14
  Speaker 4: Roses here as well. We got a special guest in
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: the building now. She entered the picture podcast competition that
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  Speaker 4: last year's at Black Offest Podcast Festival.
• 0:23
  Speaker 5: Black Effect Say with your send Black Effects.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: There you go.
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  Speaker 4: She won and she is now on the network. The
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  Speaker 4: name of her podcast is the Black Mother Wound Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, we have Jennifer our niece.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome morning, Jennifer.
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  Speaker 6: Good morning.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling.
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  Speaker 6: I'm feeling amazing. Where are you for having me? I'm
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  Speaker 6: from Stedman in North Carolina.
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  Speaker 3: North Carolina, Carolina, Carolina.
• 0:49
  Speaker 6: How did you hook up with Instagram?
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  Speaker 7: Oh?
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  Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I live outside of Charlotte now in Rocky Hill.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, all right.
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  Speaker 7: Because at the podcast festival she was with another podcast
• 1:00
  Speaker 7: They're from Delaware, and I was like, oh my god,
• 1:01
  Speaker 7: this is like such a full circle moment.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: My first time meeting you.
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  Speaker 6: And her for years and we known each other online
• 1:08
  Speaker 6: for years and now it's my buddy and.
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: You're also a spiritual coach and intuitive healer.
• 1:14
  Speaker 6: Yes, what is that exactly? Well, it means that the
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  Speaker 6: work that I do is all about creating a better
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: relationship with yourself. Right, So that's your mind, your body,
• 1:24
  Speaker 6: and your spirit. And I think most of us we're
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: giving tools on how to have our physical body in shape.
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: We're given tools now to even maybe you know our
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: intellect and our mind, but a lot of times our spirit,
• 1:37
  Speaker 6: the thing we can't see, gets neglected. And I think
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  Speaker 6: that's like our core, and that's where our compass is,
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: and that's where our intuition lies. So I think through healing,
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: through vulnerability, transparency, you can stop compartmentalizing those things and
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: have them all work together.
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  Speaker 1: Is an intuitive healer like a kind of like a medium.
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  Speaker 6: Or no, a medium. I don't tell you the future
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: or anything like that. It's just how you connect with yourself,
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  Speaker 6: your inner little child, your emotions, all those types of
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: things like that. It's yeah, it's no crystal balls. If
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  Speaker 6: you have the power. It's teaching someone how to tap
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: into their own power.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: And you know, we've been having a lot of conversations
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: lately just about you know, father wounds, mother wounds.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: What is a black mother wound for people who don't.
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: Know, So let me tell you about what a mother
• 2:26
  Speaker 6: wound is, because I think with social media they throw
• 2:28
  Speaker 6: in terms around and use them for everything. Right, And
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  Speaker 6: how I came to learn the mother wound through Bethany
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: Webster is it is a generational wound that passes down
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: from a mother to a daughter. It's rooted in the
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: patriarchy and the mother's lack of autonomy that she has
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: over her own life that's created by the patriarchy. She
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: models that behavior down to her daughter, and so it's
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: like really teaching a girl how to survive with less
• 2:57
  Speaker 6: right and so you have. So it's gender, the black
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: mother womd. We're gonna add race and how a black
• 3:04
  Speaker 6: woman also loses autonomy not just because of her gender,
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  Speaker 6: but because of her race. Because when I've read all
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: these books about the mother womdes, they don't there's not
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: a real reflection of us. A black woman's story isn't
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  Speaker 6: centered and it's not the same. Having a white mother
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  Speaker 6: and having a Black mother is not the same. The
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: wounding is not the same. So it's really how we
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  Speaker 6: approach it, especially if you grew up with a strong
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  Speaker 6: black mother, if you grew up with that, because there
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  Speaker 6: is no strong white mother, there's no strong Mexican mother,
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  Speaker 6: there's no strong Asian mother, but there's a strong Black mother.
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  Speaker 6: And that's really a crown of thorns. We've kind of
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  Speaker 6: exalted it, but really it's painful, and you pass that
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  Speaker 6: down to your daughters. So if my mother was born
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  Speaker 6: in nineteen forty six, she had certain freedoms, So I
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  Speaker 6: was born in the seventies. She's teaching me from what
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  Speaker 6: she knows about freedom, but I have more freedom, right,
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  Speaker 6: And that becomes the disconnect because she's trying to teach
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  Speaker 6: me about a world that doesn't exist anymore, and I'm
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  Speaker 6: trying to live in a world that she doesn't know about.
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  Speaker 6: And that's what creates a lot of the conflict between
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  Speaker 6: black women and their daughters.
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  Speaker 4: Well, break that down, explain that a little bit, because
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  Speaker 4: somebody will say, well, I'm white, I had a strong
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  Speaker 4: white woman, a white, strong white mother.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I'm Asian.
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  Speaker 4: But but break that down, because people are just here
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  Speaker 4: that and be like, that's not true.
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  Speaker 3: But what do you break that down with me?
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  Speaker 6: When I say having When you say, oh, she's I'm
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  Speaker 6: a strong black woman, like it's seen as you know,
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  Speaker 6: a badge of honor. How you I was listening earlier
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: on the radio and the guy was talking about his
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: wife and he said he loves his wife because she's
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: always in so much pain, but she never shows it.
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  Speaker 6: That's what he loves about her. That type of expectation,
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  Speaker 6: I believe is regularly relegated to Black women. And if
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  Speaker 6: you are going through pain and you don't know how
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  Speaker 6: to show it, and you have a black daughter, she's
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  Speaker 6: gonna go through pain, and you're gonna teach her not
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  Speaker 6: to show it, because that's what being strong is. That's
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  Speaker 6: what being good is. How much you can abandon yourself
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  Speaker 6: for the sake of others, which is rooted in systematic
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  Speaker 6: racial oppression, is rooted in chattel slavery. It's the dehumanization
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  Speaker 6: of a black woman and how she teaches her daughter
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  Speaker 6: that her dehumanization is also a part of her survival,
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  Speaker 6: and how to wear it with a smile, how to
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  Speaker 6: make it nice. That's not something that other cultures are
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  Speaker 6: really experiencing the way Black women and their daughters, And yeah, no,
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  Speaker 6: it's not the same.
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  Speaker 5: Our elders endured so much that sometimes trauma gets passed
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  Speaker 5: down its strength.
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  Speaker 6: Not sometimes all. Yeah, it does, because at one point
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  Speaker 6: that was how you stayed alive, but it's not how
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  Speaker 6: you stay alive now. And I think that's why we
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  Speaker 6: have to even update how we are parenting because when
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  Speaker 6: you look at black culture, a big part of black culture,
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  Speaker 6: you have music, you have the way you dreams, you
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  Speaker 6: have the way you talk, and you have the way
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  Speaker 6: you parent or your parent like a black parent, your
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  Speaker 6: parent like this, and it's so rooted in tradition that
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  Speaker 6: we're missing that is becoming obsolete.
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  Speaker 7: Now, when did you learn that you were even allowed
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  Speaker 7: to acknowledge that there were black mother wounds? Because for
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: a long time, I didn't even know that I was
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  Speaker 7: allowed to even talk say that and talk about that.
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  Speaker 6: I never knew. I always knew it was a thing.
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  Speaker 6: And then when I was forty, me and my mother
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  Speaker 6: were having a conversation on the phone and she started
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  Speaker 6: hitting me with a one word answer. I was trying
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  Speaker 6: to help her, and she was like, okay, okay, okay,
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  Speaker 6: And I realized she thinks I'm her enemy. I've spent
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  Speaker 6: all my life trying to please her, trying to be
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  Speaker 6: everything that she wants. Me to be and in this moment,
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  Speaker 6: she thinks I'm her enemy, she doesn't trust me. And
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  Speaker 6: it was literally like my life flash before my face,
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  Speaker 6: and I had seen it my whole life, and I
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  Speaker 6: was like, Oh, she got me fucked up. This is
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: not me, this is not my problem. And then to
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: talk about it, I read a book by Burne Brown
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  Speaker 6: and she was talking about shame and I realized how
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  Speaker 6: much shame I felt. Because I didn't have a close
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  Speaker 6: relationship with my mother, I didn't even know how to
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  Speaker 6: acknowledge it, and so realizing that you cure shame through sharing,
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  Speaker 6: and so that's when I was like, let me see
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  Speaker 6: if am I broken? Am I a bad person? Am
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  Speaker 6: I wrong? And then starting to share my story and
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  Speaker 6: people saying, oh my god, you're saying how I feel.
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  Speaker 6: But I didn't have words for it. You're letting me
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  Speaker 6: know I'm not the only one. I'm not crazy, I'm
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  Speaker 6: not exaggerating, I'm not making it up. Those were all
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  Speaker 6: the things I felt, and so as soon as I saw, oh,
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  Speaker 6: I'm not the only one, I was like, let's talk
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  Speaker 6: about it. And it really did help me because I
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  Speaker 6: have so much shame, you know what I mean? It's
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  Speaker 6: just I was raised in the Bible Belt in church
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  Speaker 6: with a single black mother. You know, everything is like
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  Speaker 6: there's a sense of guilt that's put on you early on,
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  Speaker 6: and so just being just talking about it has helped.
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  Speaker 6: And that's why I think that's a really important thing.
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  Speaker 2: When you talked about it with your mom, was she
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  Speaker 2: receptive to hearing that?
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  Speaker 6: No? No, And we've had the conversation before. I've never
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  Speaker 6: I've always known there was something off between the relationship
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  Speaker 6: with me and my mother my whole life. My father
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  Speaker 6: knew it, you know, and this is not to shade her.
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  Speaker 6: It's just something that I always knew, but I just
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  Speaker 6: felt that that it was me. So no, I don't
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  Speaker 6: I don't think she has that well, I know she
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  Speaker 6: doesn't have that capacity to understand. And I've seen as
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  Speaker 6: it's seen as disrespectful for me to even throwing it up.
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  Speaker 5: I want to talk about that, right because, like you know, mothers,
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  Speaker 5: grandmother's right, in the black community, they're sacred figures who
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  Speaker 5: can't be questioned. How do you create space for accountability
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  Speaker 5: without encouraging disrespect.
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  Speaker 6: Well, first, I think we need to redefine like what
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  Speaker 6: is disrespect because that is like the number one word
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  Speaker 6: in the black community. It's like, oh, what does that mean?
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  Speaker 6: Because it's a lot of times if you disagree, you
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  Speaker 6: disres bag, If you talk loud, you disrespagged. If you
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  Speaker 6: don't say yes ma'am. So it's like you can't you
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  Speaker 6: can't hold someone accountable. Your boundary is for you. So
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  Speaker 6: my generation, it might not happen with me, it may
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  Speaker 6: happen with the next generation. So this work isn't about
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: changing the mother, right. It is about the daughter healing
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: the relationship with herself so she doesn't repeat the same patterns,
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  Speaker 6: and then she as she becomes in touch with her
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  Speaker 6: own humanity, she then can see her mother's humanity and
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  Speaker 6: sometimes you do love from afar. We have to get
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  Speaker 6: out of this concept that what a mother should be,
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  Speaker 6: how the relationship should be, and learn to accept it
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  Speaker 6: as it is and build loving community and loving relationships
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: where we can find them. A lot of times we think,
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  Speaker 6: if I don't get the love from my mother, then
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: I'm not going to get it from anybody, and my
• 9:54
  Speaker 6: things I want to teach you. Just because she can't
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: give you the love, it doesn't mean the love doesn't exist.
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  Speaker 6: Because you're going to a well, that's dry. You know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: it's like I'm a cell phone, I'm an iPhone. Just
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: think about our programming, all the things that an iPhone
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: can do. A lot of our mothers are a house phone.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: You can't click over, there's no FaceTime, there's no apps,
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: it's a limited capability. Does that make her wrong?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 6: We are all on an evolutionary journey. This isn't about
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: shaming anybody, but it is understanding actual human dynamics and like,
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: where can I get the love I need?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: How do you break those traumas?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: Because it's like, you know, being a dad, right, Like
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: my dad raised me a certain way, right, and he
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: did it out of survival, right.
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  Speaker 3: He was he went to the military, he's seen.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Racism, he wasn't able to drink a certain water fountain.
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  Speaker 4: So for me, he looks at people a certain way,
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  Speaker 4: which made me look at people a certain way.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 3: But that was forty fifty sixty years ago.
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  Speaker 4: But now when I have my kids, I kind of
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: do the same thing as my dad, and I try to.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Scale back a little bit.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: But it's difficult because that's how you raise So how
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: do you break those traumas so that your daughters, and
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: your daughter's daughters and your daughter's daughter's daughter's daughters are
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: not feeling that same trauma.
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: The reality is, I'm not going to fix all of it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: There are mistakes I made with my son that I'm
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: you know, putting money away for him to be in
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: therapy when he's older. You know what I'm saying, I'm not.
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: You're not gonna fix everything you And that's I think
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: it's what's better than being right is allowing yourself to
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: be wrong in front of your kids. You know. It's
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: like I don't know that you know, I feel this way.
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: I know it's not right. I'm working through it, Okay, Dad,
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: Well we're gonna help you out. You know, I made
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: a mistake, things like that. It's just apologizing is huge, right.
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  Speaker 6: My son would prefer me to apologize and be right
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: all the time because I want to teach him how
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: to apologize. So you're not going to break every chain, right.
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  Speaker 6: It is just a process, and really it comes from
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: you being transparent and vulnerable. And this exactly the story
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: you just said telling your kids that like, hey, I'm
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: trying to change these things. This is the way I am.
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: So be patient with Dad. I'm working on it, and
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: that's all you can do.
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  Speaker 5: You think a lot of Black families confuse survival with healing.
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: I don't know if they confuse survival with healing. I
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: think they. I think they confuse healing with religion. So
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: survival is just how we live. I think we confuse
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: maybe survival with our culture, like we have a as
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: black culture. A lot of things we do are survival based,
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: so we can confuse those. But I don't think they
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: confuse survival with healing. I think people think that healing
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: is either church based or you have to be on
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: somebody's couch going through therapy all the time. When this
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: is what healing is. Healing is a change in perspective.
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  Speaker 6: That's all that healing is. It means you can see
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: something differently where you saw it, you know, as a curse.
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  Speaker 6: Now that I have a better understanding, I can see
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: it as a blessing. Things can still be true. It
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: did hurt me, but now I've learned from it, I
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: have a new skill from it. Things of that nature, right,
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: So I think that's how we don't really have a
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: a And we think healing means if something is black,
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: we can make it white. That's what I mean that
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: we look at it in religion. That's why we want,
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: Oh want my mother to change. Why can't she change,
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: like just flip a switch. I'm gonna pray for her,
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: she's gonna be different. I mean, that's not how it
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: happens things. When you get pregnant, it takes not much.
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: You're not gonna pray a baby to be born. We
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: don't know about to happen at one time, you know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: so we don't look at people evolving in that same way.
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: But healing in a miracle is a change in perspective.
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: So healing your mother wound is not changing your mother.
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: It is changing your perspective about the relationship and changing
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: the perspective you have about yourself. Because how my mother
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: saw herself, she taught me to see myself that way.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: That was gonna do.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Another question that why do you think things change when
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: a lot of women become grandmothers. Right, a mother will
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: be a certain way, but when they have grandmom it's
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: like it's totally totally different. Why do you think that is.
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: Because there's no danger. It's like when you have a child,
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: it's like your heart is outside. You have no control
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: and again, if you have a mother wound, you don't
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: have autonomy over your own life, and now you're the
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: supreme law for this individual that is depending on you
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: for everything. You've never had that happen before. It's so
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: much pressure and stress. So when you're a grandparent, all
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: those necessities are taken care of by someone else, so
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: you can kind of there's space between things. You know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: it's that's all it is. It's just a space. And
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: it's not always that way, because some grandparents are still
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: the same way what their grandchildren.
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: When you think of a black mother wound, right, how
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: much of it is personal and how much of it
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: is systemic?
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  Speaker 6: I think it starts systemically. It's cultural because it is
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: rooted in racism, and it's rooted in the patriarchy. So
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: it's how we see women, how the world sees women.
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: And then of course it becomes personal because we live
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: it every day and it becomes like the breath, it
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: becomes the water.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a it's just my personal opinion. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: feel like the parents are the first people that traumatize
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: you if they're not doing it right. Yes, absolutely, than
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: you're talking about when you talk about apologizing and admitting
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: your mistakes.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: That stuff I never.
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: Heard, never heard, never, but it wasn't You have to
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: think again, they didn't even have the language for that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: You have to think a house phone with the stream
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: and it's rotary. That's very limited. But so much has
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: happened in one or two generations that now we have
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: so many resources to us that we can understand things
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: very differently. But they are the first people to traumatize
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: us in ways because they didn't have the tools, they
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: didn't have the skills, you know, but they still have
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: to be responsible for the impact.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: Having to go, you know, the psychological torture of having
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: to go pick a switch from.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: My grandma.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: My aunts always talk about having.
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: The switch if you to hurt you, so you know
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: what's worse. When they'll pick up anything and hit you,
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: get a switch. I'll go pick a switch, because don't
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: give you with a fly swater okay, okay, with a
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: vacuum court, thank you, even be hit with a brood stick, okay, all.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Right, remember the big wooden spools.
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: My mother she had a ruler and it was like
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: an eighteen inch ruler from her job, and it used
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: to belong to a man named mister Bell and had
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: his name on the back, so she would say, go
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: get mister Bell. So when you was going to get
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: mister Bell, you was about to get your ass tore up.
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: But there that again is rooted in chattel slavery. That
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: you punish someone, you change a bed behavior through physical
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: punishment and the removal of acceptance, the removal of affection,
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: the removal of attention. Actually that's more violent, they say
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: than physical punishment. When you remove your affection from a
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: child when they do something wrong you know, or you
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: ignore them when they're in the house, that it really
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: causes even even more damage. Right, But we weren't taught
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: that we were people who had feelings, and then we
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: have to think about people don't look at kids as
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: human beings. You don't have feelings, you don't have emotions, eying.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: Everybody's given everything to you, so you can just there's
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: no reason for you to make this mistake. Right, And
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: that is why evolution is so important and that we
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: have these conversations because there are new pathways to parents,
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: there are new pathways to relate to each other.
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: Now, what's the biggest thing you have to change about?
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: Like something you thought about yourself that you realize was
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: like from your other one.
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: That I wasn't worth loving, that I had to work
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: to be loved, that I had to earn love, that
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: I had to be perfect, that everything had to be right,
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: that I couldn't make mistakes, that I didn't belong, That
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: everybody else could be loved, but I couldn't be loved.
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: That everybody else could get help, everybody else could fall
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: down have somebody help them get back up, but not me.
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: That's a heavy burden. And I think that's been the
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: biggest thing with this work, is teaching other Black women like,
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: you don't have to earn love, you don't have to
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: be a certain way to be loved. You can make
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: a mistake, you can be bad at something and you
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: can get better at it, and like, it doesn't change
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: who you are. It doesn't change who you are. You
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: are not broken. Yeah, that was the biggest thing.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: You know, a lot of black people grew up hearing
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: things like what happens in this house, stayed in this house.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: How much damage has secrecy done to generations of family?
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: See, it has created secrets and more secrets are more
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: secrets where people can't be authentic where people can't be themselves,
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: where you can't say when you're hurt, and what happens
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: is then you go out in the world and you
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: create more damage. But so much of that is is
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: the pride, you know, but that again is rooted in
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: the dehumanization of black people, that you have to show
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: up a certain way, and at one point it was
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: violent if you didn't have it right, you know what
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: I mean, off the rip and you have to update.
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: That's what we have to change the culture of black
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: parenting because the secrecy is doing us way more harm
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: than we could ever imagine.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: The tough thing go get alonge some tissue. But the
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: tough thing about you know, parenting is it don't come
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: with no manual, you know what I mean. So the
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: only thing I'm trying to do is be better than
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: well he's trying to do the things that I know
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: hurt me and traumatize me.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: I'm yes, and that's great. I don't like when people
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: say there's not a manual. There are tons of books
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: you can read about parenting.
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: You might not take them all from you might not
• 20:13
  Speaker 6: take them all to be you know the word, but
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: there are tools out there right, because no matter what,
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: when take the word parenting out of it, it's a relationship.
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: Everything is a relationship between you and your kids, between
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: you and your wife, between you and your parents, between
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: your your neighbor. It's just a relationship. So how do
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: you have better relationships with people? We don't look at
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: our kids as people the respect that you want in
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: the street, how you act at work. It's like, oh,
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: there's a manual for that, because you know you're gonna
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: get fired if you don't do certain things. So there
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: are ways. I think that's I think people fall back
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: on that. It's like, well, I mean, nobody told me
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: there's no manual. I got to make it up as
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: I go. You actually don't have to make it up
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: as you go. There are professionals, there are there are resources.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: What are you about? What about you know?
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: If I say people were never given the opportunity to
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: actually become emotionally healthy.
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: Before they became that is very true. And this is
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: why I'm saying you're gonna make mistakes. Everybody's not going
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: to get it right.
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: Hones states can be crucial sometimes when you deal with kids.
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Because I think about me as a forty seven year
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: old about to be forty eight, still trying to heal
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: from being eight to nine.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Things that happening, how they not.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: This is why. That's the good thing about the time
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: we live in now. And this work isn't about going backwards.
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: It's about going forward. There's always going to be hard times,
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: you know. I think about Martin Luther King Junior. He
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: didn't see He even said I didn't see the mountaintop,
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: so he didn't get a chance to see it. I'm
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: not going to get a chance to see all of
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: this work. You know, my son is not going to
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: be perfect. He's going to mess up with his kids.
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: So this is legacy work that we just do because
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: it's the right thing. And everybody's not every this life everybody.
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: It's harsh to say everybody's not gonna make it right.
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: But if you're moving forward, there are tools available. Do
• 22:13
  Speaker 6: not get hooked on Instagram for being your tool for
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: your mental health and mental illness. I will say that,
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: and I also want to say I'm not a therapist.
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: Everything that I talk about is from the social data
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: of my life. I was living it every day.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I was going to ask that.
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: You already you think I'm already got it. I was gonna.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: You know, you said that there's books where people can read.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: You know, even me and my wife we wrote books
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: on on raising our kids. But what I realized is
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: everybody's family is different, right, everybody's kids are different.
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: If that was the case, all my kids would be
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: the same, But they're not.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: Like you can talk to this one and this one
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: will get it, but this one won't have any idea
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: what you're saying, so there really is no emanual. But
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: what I wanted to ask you is, you know, going
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: through your page, I see that you have one podcast
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: that seemed like it really resonated, and I wanted to
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: ask you.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Why you felt that way?
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Right, And it was episode twenty seven where it was
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: how to meet the needs your mother couldn't meet?
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Why did that resonate so much with people? Interview? Why
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: did that resonate so much with people? And what is
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the fix for that? I guess, I would say, or
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: I guess it's a.
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: Big deal because we have a dream of who our
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: mother could be, and we have a dream of this
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: relationship that could be. You know what I mean? And
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: you know how you have Disney have the you have Cinderella.
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: Of course you have all of that. That's us Like
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: it's so deeply like we want it so bad, we
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: want her to show up for us in a certain way,
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: so bad that we will neglect ourselves because we think
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: she'll get it I can. If I can show I
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: can't do it, she'll pick up she'll pick up the peace,
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: and she'll meet the need for me. It's like trying
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: to toss the ball, you know, Aliu, Aliu, and the
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: ball just keeps dropping and rolling, and then you you
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: have to come to the decision where it's like, oh,
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: I've got a mother myself. I've got to let go
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: of the fantasy of something that I will never have.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: And that's a grief and a heartbreak like you've you've
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: been your your heart broke a long time ago, but
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: you've been holding it together. And then you finally realize,
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: in order for me to take care of myself, I've
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: got to let my heart break.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Isn't that a good thing?
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's not good, but it's it's hard.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Because you're a parent.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: I don't want to say be, but you could want
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: to be what you felt your mother or your father
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: left out in your life, right, Like, for instance, right,
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: my mom and my mom and dad did not talk
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: to me as a quote unquote friend.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: They believe it child stays in the child place. I'm
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: not your friend, right.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: So what happens is is you kind of have that
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: wall when something's going on. It's almost like there's a
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: fear to talk to them because you don't want to
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: get in trouble. My kids a little different. I'm like,
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: tell me everything. Well, let's tell me what's going on
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: so we can help. Now you might do, you might
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: get in trouble, but I want you to talk. It's
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: a different relationship. But I learned that from not having
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: that with my parents. So it's kind of you learn it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: You do, but not everybody learns it. Not every You
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: have to also look at envy. You have been exposed
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: to lots of different things and people in situations that
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: have taught you that you have to communicate. Do you understand?
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: So I think all of those things make a difference
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: as well. And yes it is good, but it's heartbreaking still.
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: I mean that's like saying somebody dying, well, it is
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: good that they died because it made space for somebody else,
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: say that, but it's still don't earth they gone, so
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: you make it another space, you know, but for us
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: you get to say they died, they went to heaven.
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: There's an ending, correct well, when that person is still
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: alive and they live up the road, but they're still
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: I'm dead to them, They're dead to me. What do
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: you do with that type of finite grief?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: That's what you have to.
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: Manage to live with, Like it's a weight that you carry.
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: And a lot of times women don't want to do
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: the work because they don't want to have to live
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: in that. And blooms and blossoms can come from that,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: but they.
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: I feel like that's where the generational passing down of
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: it happens, because like your mom doesn't even understand how
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: to show up for you because she didn't get it.
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: And then when you're old enough to do it better
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: with your own kids and you're trying to teach it
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: to them, it's like they're older now, so they're not
• 26:46
  Speaker 7: understanding it. But also like she don't even under she
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: doesn't even grasp the idea sometimes of like what you're
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: talking through because it's just not there right.
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: And I also talk about this like we're animals, right,
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: just like dear different a horse parents, they're babies, or
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: an elephant or a tiger, all those types of things.
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: So I look at my job. My mother's job with
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: me was to get me to a certain point. I
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: have released her from all responsibility. I know how to
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: take care of myself. She taught me certain skills. There's
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: certain things I've learned. You know. I can go out
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: in the jungle and I can hunt because of her.
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: I'm thankful for that. So now for me to say,
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: and I want us to sit on the phone and
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: I tell you all my dark secrets and you'll be
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: there and you'll do this and you won't that like
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: I'm asking too much.
• 27:38
  Speaker 7: But you're okay with that? Every day done because I
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: feel like I'm working through that right now. But some
• 27:42
  Speaker 7: days I don't feel like that.
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: I don't it's time. I'm this happened what I'm eleven
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: years in the game, you know what I mean. It's
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: like a muscle you gotta build, Lauren, and it does
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: get hard. And that's why we talk about well when
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: you have kids, but it's so important for you to
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: repairent the inner little girl. That's what this work is
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: really all about in building community. Because we're putting our
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: happiness in the hands of someone who can't hold it,
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: doesn't mean that we can't have happiness. It's so important
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: to risk it with other people, to learn to be
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: vulnerable with other people, to let them hold you, to
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: let them help you, to be there for you. But
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: that's a skill set. I mean, I'm learning so many
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: things for the first time in my forties. In my fifties,
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: I ain't gonna it's hard, and I have a child
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: that I raise along at the same time. It's me tired, okay,
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: but it's so worth it because what you're gonna do,
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: you're gonna hold try and hold that hurt when you eighty.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: So if it's hard now when I'm fifty, okay, when
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: I'm seventy, I'm gonna be chilling. So you just got
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: to you gotta look at it in a more long
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: term way.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: I thought about it a question just now, right, But it's
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: just it's gonna go to a conversation. But what does
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: healing actually look like if your parents never apologizes? But
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: do parents have to apologize if they didn't even know
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: what the hell they was doing?
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm not big on apology, and I'm not big
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: on forgiveness. That's not I don't center those you mean
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: meaning healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: I have with my Mother's healing the relationship I have
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: with myself. And that's what I focus on. So if
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: I'm focused on that, I don't need an apology from someone.
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: What I mean, I know you were doing what you
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: knew how to do.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I were about the forgiveness.
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: Part forgiveness is understanding that things couldn't be any different
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: than the way they were. That still has nothing to
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: do with anybody else, you know. So that's the part.
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: But you can't get to the acceptance until you heal
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: the relationship you have with yourself. We want to start
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: at the end. We want to you gotta forgive her.
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: You gotta forgive her. I haven't even gone through. Let
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: me go through what I got to go through. Can
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: I be angry?
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: I said, my grandma is though she'd be like, it's
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: your parent, it's your mom and your dad.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Do have to forget it.
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: But and that's really a dehumanization. That's a person. Because
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: if somebody was to hit me with a car and
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: my leg is broken. My leg is broken, So am
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: I gonna focus on why they hit me with the car?
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: Do they have a license? Did they have breaks? Or
• 30:28
  Speaker 6: am I gonna focus on how to repair my leg
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: so I can go and live my life.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: And that's a good example though, because the person who
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: may not have hit you, no, probably didn't hit you
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: on purpose, And.
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: I don't care. It doesn't matter, Like that's the whole thing.
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: Why why are we It doesn't matter?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Heal and your healing is your responsibility, got you.
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: That's what's important. And we're focusing on, well, why did
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: they do what they did? And that is centering the
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: other person, and it really leaves the person who's been
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: wounded in the cold. Right, But because we have this
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: thing of that's your parents, so that they have more power,
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: they're more valuable because they're a parent. You're a child
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: now the thing is and what does that mean? But
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: now I'm a parent to somebody else? So how do
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: we like siphon out value of a person.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: It's crazy because listening to Lauren, I kind of feel
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: that way right with my parents. Right if my parents
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: do something I don't like, my first reaction is how.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Can I be mad? How can I be upset? How
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: can I take it away?
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Because they I look at it as they sacrifice their
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: life to make sure I was good.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: They work doubles and triples to put me in college.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: They did all this. So that's just my mind.
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: And I don't believe in the dead either. My son
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: doesn't owe me anything. I chose to have him. I
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: made that decision. Okay, he doesn't owe me anything. I
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: don't want him to be like, well, I can't be
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: she's wrong. I don't want to be mad at her
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: because she did this for me. No, I mess up
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: because you're also kind of lying to yourself. But you're
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: also in a place of power. You have autonomy over
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: your life. So you being mad at them or not,
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: I'm envy, you know what I mean. It is very
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: much different for black girls because when we don't show
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: up in a way that they approve of, the way
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: that we get ignored, the way we get looked down at,
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: the way we get chastised and punished is not the
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: same way that men. You know, y'all don't experience it
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: the same way.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: It's so different for us too, though.
• 32:43
  Speaker 7: I mean, but your only child, so I don't know
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: if this works with you, But I feel like when
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: you're the oldest black daughter.
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: And talk about it, oh my god, everything you have
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: to understand that we were raised to be of service,
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: yes to everyone. We were raised to reflect if our
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: parents did a good job or not. That's what this
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: is about. You know, boys are not raised to be like,
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: he's a boy as long as he ain't gay. We
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: did our job. But did she go to college?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: If I could do your podcast?
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: Okay, it's good though, Yeah, we need this right because
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: when if for us, we gotta not get pregnant, not
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: be a whore, go to college, wear the right clothes,
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: not wear too much makeup, have the right friends, speak
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: the right way, have the everything has to be right.
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: Otherwise we're making her or him look we're making our
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: parents look bad. That's a lot of pressure, right, And
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: then to be on top of it, like if you're
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: taught that anything about your body, how black girls are
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: sexualized at a young age. So it's like just you
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: being you is a problem, you know, But I understand
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: because to be a free, flirty, curious black girl in
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: the forties could get you hong. So if you if
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: my mother came from outside ellery sante that area, So
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: there is a it's dangerous, but that's what I mean.
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: The parenting has an updated because it's not dangerous anymore.
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: That's the difference in how you're If you're the black
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: girl in the family, especially the oldest, your grandmother talks
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: to you from that. Yes, she's fearful. My grandma's fearful
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: of everything I say, what I do, what I post,
• 34:38
  Speaker 7: what I wear. Yes, my mom is more like rebel,
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: do what you need to do. But I'm still dealing
• 34:44
  Speaker 7: with the I'm second parent in the household. Yes, absolutely,
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: sometimes from a young age and having to have a
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: hard conversation younger on like Mom, like, I'm a child too.
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: I'm a child, ma'am right. But that is the wound
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: because you don't get an opportunity to define who you are.
• 35:06
  Speaker 6: You don't get a chance to have the autonomy of
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: how you feel. Our voice in our head is our
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: mother or grandmother, and it's so powerful because it's like, dang,
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: she told me that when I was five. Here i
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: am forty five, and I'm still leading with that. But
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: now I look at my life. The fruit of my
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: life is not where it should be because I have
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: an out of date thinking and thought process. So that's
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: how it's going to continue to show up in your life.
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: Do you ever feel like it's weird too, because for me,
• 35:35
  Speaker 7: I don't feel like I don't have any disdain or
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: anything gets my mom and my grandmother. Me and my
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: mom had to work toward that though, right, But like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: I feel like I love and I value them so
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: much differently now because they're older, and I appreciate some
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: of the things that have also traumatized me.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: At the same time, it's a weird.
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: Well that's well. Again, healing is a change in perspective, right,
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: It's a change in perspective, So two things can be
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: true at the same time. You know, my mother, you know,
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: whatever she put in front of us, that's what we
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: had to eat. That was harsh back in the day,
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: you know, But now I eat everything, my child eats everything.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: You know I was, you know, So there there's a
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: give and take. And also, the mother wound is a
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: spectrum everybody. Just you can have a loving relationship with
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: your mother and still have a wound. It doesn't mean
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: that it's to the point like I haven't spoken with
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: my mother in over a decade, where it's no contact.
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: There's a spectrum, right, But it really still all comes
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: back to how you relate to yourself.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Do you feel guilty?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You said you healed your mother, woman, but I guess
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: that's what you're saying.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: I can healing your mother wound is an ongoing process. Yeah,
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: But healing my mother wound is not healing the relationship
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: with my mother is healing the relationship with myself?
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Do you feel guilty at that? Butship with your mom?
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: No?
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: Because I tried to have a relationship with her. I can't.
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: I can't make somebody have a relationship with me that
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: doesn't want to have a relationship with me, but they
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: only want to be with me on their own terms.
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: I think at a point I felt guilty, but then
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: when I realized when she and I had that conversation,
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: this is never going to change.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: And not to die, not to get two persons. But
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: this is your mom that raised you and then did everything.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: It's not one like a mom that you didn't know.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: This is your mom, mom that raised you and everything
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: that's been in your life.
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: That's yes, I want you to hear what you're saying,
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: because I'm gonna tell you different.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: No, because it's a different way of saying it. Like
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: if somebody is saying, I don't speak to my mom
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: and my mom wasn't in my life, but right, but
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: I'm understandable. But if somebody but I'm just saying what
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: it looks like to that ou soide, Well, but like
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: if a mom that was there for your your sweet
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: sixteen and was there for your graduation.
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: But this is what you have to understand. You could
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: be raised with someone every day in the home, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: pay all the bills, you have somewhere to stay, and
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: you still don't have a relationship with them. You just
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: mentioned yeah, yeah, but my mother. But there's still a
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: spectrum because from the outside it was like, oh, my
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: mother worked hard, we lived in a good neighborhood. My
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: mother didn't come to my high school graduation. But even
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: if she would have, I still have a right to
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: acknowledge harm. I still have a right to acknowledge harm.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: Her existing coexisting with me does not create a debt
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: that now I owe my humanity. I owe my pain
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: to her because she kept me alive. You know. So,
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: I think it's how you phrase the question it can
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: be triggering to someone because it's like what they we
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: I mean, what did she do? Did she beat you
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: every year?
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Me?
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: Did you sleep in a closet? Like? It's really not
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: bad enough for you to feel that way, you know.
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: And again that's where we don't allow people to have
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: their experience when it's with a parent.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: Now, because I was just asking, because you absent te
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: mom is different than the present mom, right and not always?
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Well why not?
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Because like she said, a present mom can still be absentee.
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, right, and absent. And if you have an absentee mom,
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: maybe you didn't get the harm. She didn't cause the harm.
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: You had someone who was present that caused a lot
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: of harm. Which would you rather have? So it's not
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: cookie cutter. Every situation is so unique and it's not
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: for anyone on the outside to say how you respond
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: to harm. That's dehumanizing to tell someone, oh, this is
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: how you should respond to them hurting you because they
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: have a certain title, because they've paid a certain amount
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: of money, because they've gone without something that you can
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: repay them with your pain and quietly and put a
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: smile on your face while you're at it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: So do you look at your mom. It's gonna sound crazy,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: but do you look at your mom as a regular
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: friend or as there a hierarchy of how you look
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: at family members and relationships, right, because I look at
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: my mom as a different hierarchy than I look at
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: let's say a friend. Let's say Lauren does something to
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: me that hurts my heart, and my mom does the
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: same thing. I can cut Lauren off in a minute,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: but even though it hurt me the same, it cut
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: me the same just as deep. I'm not cutting off
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: my mom because of not just she had me, but
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: the sacrifices she did to make sure.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: That my life was better than hers.
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: Well, I guess you have to look at if someone
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: has lived with a person and there has been consistent harm.
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: That is not the same as to say she didn't
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: call me today. That's very that's very different, of course,
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And did you know the
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: things that our parents do, that's what they choose to do.
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: I don't believe in the debt. I don't you know.
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: I don't want my son to do well in school
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: because of what I sacrificed, because it's not sustainable, you
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: know what I mean, And it's not authentic, So you
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: don't have I don't have you. You can make any
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: choice you want to, but don't make a choice just
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: because someone has a title.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: I agree when I pray for when I pray to
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: God to take negativity out my life. Sometimes he might
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: swing at people that you wouldn't expect, like, oh, your mom,
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: your dad, whoever it did. And if you got to
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: cut him off, you gotta cut him off.
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because this is the thing. The way we learn
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: to relate in our parent daughter parent child relationships, we
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: take that out into the world. Right. So imagine your
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: daughter is with a man and he takes he's got money,
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: he has sacrificed for her, and they're married. Now, he's
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: done all the things she wanted to do, but she's
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: not happy with him. He demeans her, he's cruel to
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: her behind bar by not behind bars, you know, behind
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: closed doors. And it's like you, you're gonna come and
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: say leave him, leave him, And she's like, I can't.
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: He's done so much for me, He's made so many
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: sacrifices for me. I'm gonna look ungrateful. Nobody's gonna love
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: me the way he is. Where did she learn that?
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: She learned that modeling in her home when she was
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: growing up, so you it's very tricky to teach people
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: to behave in that way because they're gonna take it
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: outside and say that same hierarchy of mother, She's gonna
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: say he's a husband, he's a husband, he's my son's father.
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: I have to give this type of credence and this
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: type of grace to them, and that's dangerous. So you
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: have to really look at how that first relationship, the
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: one with your parents, shapes you, because it will impact
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: all of your relationships moving forward.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: A pimple done that but also.
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: Real.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: But as a father, the reason why I pour into
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: my daughter and teach her how to have her own
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: and help her have her own so she's never in
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: a situation like that, right, that's the reason why.
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: You're also a father with those types of resource.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: But when I didn't, it was the goal of my
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: life was to make sure my kids are happy, right,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: not wealthy, not rich, Happy that they can say they
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: can have a life whatever they want to do, if
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: they want to do nails, if they want to be
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: an author, if they want to do podcasts, but be
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: happy because life is sure most people work to get
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: money and never happy, right. So the whole focus was
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: to make sure my kids are happy and self sufficient
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: so they never have to rely in a situation where
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: I'm here because this man is paying the.
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: Bit, but it's not reliance because she has to She
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: might have the money, but it's still a social currency
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: to have a husband in this country and he's doing
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: all the right things. And my dad. You liked him, Dad,
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: you like him. She don't like him nowhere, but you
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: still like him because you don't see the dynamic that
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: they have. So some of these things you're you haven't
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: gotten to yet because your your kids aren't old enough.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Well one of them is, right, I have a twenty
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: four year.
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: Old, right, but even twenty four is still young, you
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: know what I mean. So some of these choices that
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: they're gonna make you you, no matter what, you're gonna
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: look back and be like at.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Absolutely you know.
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: But but you do have to be very careful with
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: those hierarchies because they can be applied anywhere. And if
• 44:31
  Speaker 6: you live and die on that hill, it's dangerous.
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: I was gonna ask, like you've never thought about, Like,
• 44:39
  Speaker 7: but you're not speaking to your mom and I know
• 44:40
  Speaker 7: you tried before, Like what if there is not another
• 44:44
  Speaker 7: day to even think about having the option to try,
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: like how you would feel in that type of situation.
• 44:51
  Speaker 7: I mean, what you mean you.
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: Would you answer? Because I made peace with it. I
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: mean it's hard. This is a hard conversation because I
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: know I sound I sound cold blooded. I can tell you, yeah,
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: I've gotten because I'm not angry. Yeah, and it's not
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: it's not a I'm not mad at her, you know,
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: but I do feel like my mother doesn't speak to
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: any of her kids right, and I feel like she
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: has done all she can do. This is where she's
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: at peace. So why am I gonna bring my if
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: you being in relationship with me upsets you, why would
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: I put Why would I do that to you? That
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: would be selfish. That's again me trying to make her
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: be someone that she's not. So if she is happy
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: with the arrangement, I honor that. That is how I
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: honor her as my mother. That I have released you
• 45:51
  Speaker 6: from responsibility of having to uh be anything that you're
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: not to manage to be in a space with me.
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: If you know that that I might trigger certain things
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: in you.
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: So I know the answer to this question, But you
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: feel forgiven? Do you think forgiveness is necessary for healing
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: or acceptance.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Just enough.
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: Is forgive? I mean I think that, I don't. I
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: think that forgiveness is a footnote. I think you can
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: see something in a different perspective. Then you've done your
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: work how you see that person, whether you call it
• 46:31
  Speaker 6: forgiveness or not. Forgiveness is not the goal because then
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: you're centering the other person. I just think forgiveness is
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: a footnote and healing, because healing is selfish and it
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: should be. When you start talking about forgiveness, you dilute
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: that down. And if you're someone who's always had to
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: give and give and given and put other people first,
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: were good. I accept it. I'm cool. We cool with
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: it or without it, I'm cool.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's test. I mean.
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: I remember having a conversation with my dad when I
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: was forty. He just told me everything that he dealt with.
• 47:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I remember you talking about that.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: You know, and and that that just gave I give
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: him so much grace.
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: But you saw him as a human, that's all. It's
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: not like, oh I was right and I made it.
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: It's like, oh damn, you a real person going through something.
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: Oh I can see why that happened that made That's
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: why I said the master being. Being an imperfect parent
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: sometime can make you a better parent because now we
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: can see each other and that removes the hierarchy. The
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: hierarchy is needed for care, but when the care is over,
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: do we still need the hierarchy. That's why I don't
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: like the word respect your elders respect respect because it
• 47:43
  Speaker 6: is who gets the respect that only benefits one person,
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: and that's the older person, you know what I mean.
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: So I think that humanizing is what is what's most important.
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: If somebody's listening right now, I realize that they carry
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: mother wound. What's the first step toward healing without, you know.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Drowning and anger?
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: Well, you may you may go to anger and blame first. Again,
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: that's okay, whatever you feel is okay. The thing is,
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: you're not by yourself, you're not making it up, you're
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: not exaggerating, and to start to do the work with
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: yourself and really decentering the relationship with your.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: You may be playing something.
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: I didn't.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I don't even Black Mother Wound podcast.
• 48:42
  Speaker 7: Scroll down from the top, impress pause, scroll down from
• 48:45
  Speaker 7: the top.
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: Okay, I am so sorry. I don't even know where
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: that's coming. Let me just put that. Yeah, you start
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: the question over.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: The question was hold on one second.
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: If somebody listening realizes they carry a mother wound, what's
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: the first step toward healing.
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: I mean acknowledging that you're not alone, you're not by yourself,
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: you're not making it up, and you're not exaggerating, and
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: that healing your mother wound is not about healing the
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: relationship with your mother. It's about healing the relationship you
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: have with yourself and how you work through that. There
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: are different ways to do that. You can work through
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: that through therapy, You can work through that joining and
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: being a part of my community. You can do that
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: by laying in the bed crying and just wailing your
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: hours out. Like, whatever you're going through, you have a
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: right to go through it right, and that this is
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: not like a thirty days in and out and it's fixed.
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: This is a lifelong process. If you've been going through
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: something for forty years, don't think in six months you're
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: gonna be done done with it. Okay, This is a
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: commitment that you make to yourself.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: Jennifer Arnie, first of all, she got a book out
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: called Fuck That Cape, yes, the woman's unapologize.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I know, the putting your first conversation up.
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: Thank you. Thanks you.
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: Subscribing to the Black Mother Wound podcast on the Black
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: Effect Podcast Network.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: You are having some necessary conversations.
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I have a live event coming in Charlotte
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: in July. It's on July the eleven. We're doing a
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: live podcast recording, fireside chat, live coaching. So you can
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: go to my website over at blackmother Wound dot com
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: or Jennifer Oarniece dot com and you can get a ticket,
• 50:28
  Speaker 6: Bring a friend, tell a friend, and tell a friend.
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, subscribe to the Black Mother wo podcast definitely.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, every day, Breakfast Club.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Finish for y'all. Done,