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The Mills Family Murders Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two
0:33
Speaker 1: of our series about the Mills family murders. Robin, do
0:36
Speaker 1: you want to catch everyone up and what we talked
0:38
Speaker 1: about in our previous episode.
0:40
Speaker 2: Well, this is a very unique mystery because it actually
0:42
Speaker 2: has a tie into Jim Jones and the in his
0:45
Speaker 2: cult and the infamous Jonestown massacre. The victims in question
0:49
Speaker 2: are fifty one year old Al Mills, his forty year
0:52
Speaker 2: old wife, Jeanie, and his sixteen year old stepdaughter Dapien,
0:56
Speaker 2: who was Janie's child from a previous marriage. They had
0:59
Speaker 2: been prom members of the Jonestown cult for many years,
1:03
Speaker 2: but decided to break free and became outspoken advocates against them,
1:07
Speaker 2: and after the Jonestown massacre occurred. During Jim Jones's death tape,
1:12
Speaker 2: he pretty much threatened Genie, saying that she was partially
1:14
Speaker 2: responsible for what happened, and he said that surviving members
1:17
Speaker 2: of the People's Temple were going to get revenge on them.
1:21
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty, Al, Genie, Daephene, and Janie's seventeen year
1:26
Speaker 2: old son Eddie from a previous marriage. We're all living
1:28
Speaker 2: together in Berkeley, California, but someone came into their home
1:32
Speaker 2: one evening and murdered al Jeanie and Daphene in the
1:35
Speaker 2: main bedroom, and turned out that Eddie was inside his
1:39
Speaker 2: own bedroom the entire time, but he always maintained that
1:43
Speaker 2: he did not see or hear anything unusual. Of course,
1:46
Speaker 2: this made investigator suspicious and they started looking at Eddie
1:50
Speaker 2: as the prime suspect. And he did have a small
1:52
Speaker 2: trace amount of gunshot residue on his hands, but it
1:56
Speaker 2: was really not big enough to conclusively say with any
1:58
Speaker 2: certainty that he fired a gun, and the actual murder
2:01
Speaker 2: weapon was never found. Eddie eventually moved to Japan, started
2:05
Speaker 2: his own family, and moved on with his life, but
2:07
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five, he returned to the United
2:10
Speaker 2: States in order to visit his family, and the authorities
2:13
Speaker 2: decided to take him into custody, but they could only
2:15
Speaker 2: hold him for forty eight hours and ultimately decided that
2:18
Speaker 2: the evidence was not strong enough to file charges and
2:21
Speaker 2: proceed and take him to trial, so he was ultimately
2:24
Speaker 2: let go and the investigation has remained at a standstill
2:27
Speaker 2: ever since. So to this day, opinions are still sharply
2:30
Speaker 2: divided about whether or not Eddie was the perpetrator. Or
2:34
Speaker 2: if the Mills family was murdered by surviving members of
2:37
Speaker 2: the People's Temple, but it's also possible that they were
2:40
Speaker 2: murdered by someone else and we just don't know who
2:43
Speaker 2: it was, so the crime remained shrouded in mystery, so
2:46
Speaker 2: we won't delve too much into this, but it's quite
2:48
Speaker 2: fascinating to read accounts from former People's Temple members who
2:52
Speaker 2: managed to defect from the cult and were successfully deprogrammed
2:56
Speaker 2: once they met the Millses and stayed at their Human
2:58
Speaker 2: Freedom Center. There's one particularly interesting account from a survivor
3:03
Speaker 2: named Niva Sly Hargrave, who had become drawn to Jim
3:06
Speaker 2: Jones after witnessing heel a blind woman in a wheelchair
3:09
Speaker 2: so that she was supposedly able to walk and see again.
3:13
Speaker 2: While when Hargrave went to the Human Freedom Center, Genie
3:16
Speaker 2: put her in touch with the woman who had been
3:17
Speaker 2: in the wheelchair. She was another People's Temple defector and
3:21
Speaker 2: revealed that the whole healing scene had been faked, which
3:24
Speaker 2: helped convince Hargrave that everything about Jones and his cult
3:27
Speaker 2: were alive. But while Genie undoubtedly helped number people and
3:31
Speaker 2: did a lot of good with her work. It must
3:34
Speaker 2: be reported that her methods did make her some enemies
3:36
Speaker 2: as well. In an article published in the March ninth,
3:40
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one edition of the San Francisco Examiner, Lowell Striker,
3:44
Speaker 2: a psychologist who had worked with the Mills at the
3:46
Speaker 2: Human Freedom Center, stated quote, when our relationship was good,
3:50
Speaker 2: it was very, very good, and when it was bad,
3:53
Speaker 2: it was horrid end quote. Indeed, Striker could see similarities
3:58
Speaker 2: between how Genie operated the HEU Human Freedom Center and
4:01
Speaker 2: how Jim Jones operated the People's Temple, and said quote,
4:05
Speaker 2: When Genie saw I can no longer be used to
4:07
Speaker 2: help her achieve her ambitions, which were fame, riches and
4:10
Speaker 2: personal recognition, she turned against me, which, unfortunately was a
4:14
Speaker 2: pattern she had with many people. She could meet a person,
4:17
Speaker 2: trust him, invite him to trust her, work with him
4:20
Speaker 2: to achieve a goal, then feel he didn't understand the goal,
4:23
Speaker 2: then turn an almost crusade against him. It was a
4:27
Speaker 2: very socially productive pattern when the target was Jim Jones,
4:30
Speaker 2: but when it was a personal friend like myself or others,
4:33
Speaker 2: it was another matter. She brought terrible habits with her
4:35
Speaker 2: from the Temple, Vindictiveness, paranoia, and secretiveness, backstabbing, basically call
4:41
Speaker 2: games end quote. It's also worth noting that during his
4:44
Speaker 2: time at the Human Freedom Center, Striker said that he
4:47
Speaker 2: often saw Eddie hanging out there watching his portable television,
4:51
Speaker 2: and this is how he described him. Quote he was
4:54
Speaker 2: totally withdrawn, but not sullen or angry, just quiet and polite.
4:58
Speaker 2: The kid I saw was not capable of killing his parents.
5:01
Speaker 2: End quote. Now I'm not sure if Striker's comments have
5:04
Speaker 2: any relevance to the actual murders, but they bring up
5:07
Speaker 2: an intriguing possibility, which we'll talk about momentarily.
5:11
Speaker 3: This is so interesting, and it's almost there's some empathy
5:14
Speaker 3: and compassion for Genie. She was in an abusive organization
5:20
Speaker 3: for years where there was spiritual abuse, where abuse was
5:23
Speaker 3: a way of survival, both taking it and giving abuse
5:27
Speaker 3: to your fellow members, including your own family members. So
5:30
Speaker 3: even though she was able to defect, those psychological effects
5:33
Speaker 3: have a lifetime influence on you. And so, you know,
5:38
Speaker 3: I think there's got to be an overall look and
5:41
Speaker 3: understanding of where she came from, what she was trying
5:44
Speaker 3: to do, and they could have been a mix. There
5:46
Speaker 3: could have been a desire for fame and selfishness and
5:48
Speaker 3: kind of these different desires, but there also had to
5:52
Speaker 3: have been people she really did help, because she knew
5:54
Speaker 3: what it was like to leave, to leave a religious
5:56
Speaker 3: organization that had hurt you, and to kind of nowgate
6:00
Speaker 3: trying to rebuild a life. So I guarantee you there
6:03
Speaker 3: was a good with the bad, given what she escaped.
6:07
Speaker 3: And I don't know, it's very interesting there, And I
6:10
Speaker 3: found it ironic when he says I looked at this kid,
6:13
Speaker 3: and it's not someone who could have killed his parents
6:15
Speaker 3: or capable of killing his parents. I don't think people
6:18
Speaker 3: like to think about it, but I think almost everybody
6:22
Speaker 3: is capable of doing absolutely horrific things based on triggers,
6:28
Speaker 3: whatever devices you have or devices you have in your life.
6:32
Speaker 3: I think we're all capable of both incredibly good things
6:36
Speaker 3: and incredibly bad things. And I always kind of have
6:41
Speaker 3: to chuckle when people are like, oh, never, this person
6:43
Speaker 3: could never do that. I went, yeah, I think we
6:45
Speaker 3: all could. What we do we have a motivation to,
6:49
Speaker 3: is there something like is it something that we could
6:52
Speaker 3: do and not literally not want to live anymore? Those
6:54
Speaker 3: kinds of things. Maybe not, but I think most humans
6:57
Speaker 3: are capable of extreme good and bad.
7:00
Speaker 1: I think you nailed it, But I also think that
7:03
Speaker 1: it makes people incredibly uncomfortable to think that their child could,
7:07
Speaker 1: given the right circumstances, murder them. So it's a lot
7:09
Speaker 1: easier to be like, this kid could never do it,
7:12
Speaker 1: because then they don't have to confront the idea that
7:15
Speaker 1: it's possible that anybody is capable given the right circumstances.
7:19
Speaker 2: And like you said, Triggers and Lowell Striker's comments, I
7:22
Speaker 2: think he was trying to plant the seeds that because
7:25
Speaker 2: Genie did a lot of good but also did a
7:27
Speaker 2: lot of bad, that she could have potentially made other
7:29
Speaker 2: enemies who had a motive to kill her, even if
7:32
Speaker 2: they were not affiliated with the People's Temple. But even
7:35
Speaker 2: though he described her as someone who looked like that,
7:37
Speaker 2: she was pursuing fame and fortune, and over the year
7:40
Speaker 2: she went on tour and wrote a book and did
7:42
Speaker 2: a lot of interviews. But we mentioned in our last
7:44
Speaker 2: episode that in the months prior to the murders, she
7:46
Speaker 2: pretty much said that we're going to stop doing this
7:49
Speaker 2: because we want to live a normal life for the
7:51
Speaker 2: first time in quite a long time. We just want
7:53
Speaker 2: to be a family and stay out of the spotlight,
7:56
Speaker 2: So it does seem like Genie, even if she did
7:58
Speaker 2: kind of have these tendencies where you wanted fame and fortune,
8:01
Speaker 2: was about to put them behind her and just start
8:03
Speaker 2: living a life of normalcy. But who knows if before
8:07
Speaker 2: that she had made any enemies who may have had
8:09
Speaker 2: a motive to kill her and the rest of her family.
8:12
Speaker 1: The one thing which seems clear about this crime is
8:15
Speaker 1: that it was a personal one, as nothing was stolen
8:18
Speaker 1: from the house, so whoever did it, their only goal
8:21
Speaker 1: was to murder one or more members of the family.
8:24
Speaker 1: The most common theory which was floated around during that
8:27
Speaker 1: time period was that the Millses were the victims of
8:30
Speaker 1: a hit squad consisting of surviving members of the People's Temple.
8:34
Speaker 1: Investigators never found any evidence that these hit squads actually existed,
8:39
Speaker 1: and if they did, well, then this probably would have
8:42
Speaker 1: been their only crime. If you search online, you'll find
8:45
Speaker 1: a list of suspicious deaths where conspiracy theorists believe that
8:49
Speaker 1: they are possibly linked to the People's Temple, and the
8:51
Speaker 1: Mills family murders are often included on them. But the
8:55
Speaker 1: important thing to note is that all of the other
8:57
Speaker 1: deaths took place before the Jonestown massacre. There don't seem
9:02
Speaker 1: to be any other suspicious deaths which took place after
9:06
Speaker 1: Jonestown which have a tangible link to the People's Temple,
9:09
Speaker 1: so this doesn't sound like a particularly efficient hit squad.
9:13
Speaker 1: The way they were portrayed, these People's Temple assassins were
9:16
Speaker 1: supposedly on a suicide mission, as they would have no
9:20
Speaker 1: other purpose in life besides killing as many of their
9:23
Speaker 1: enemies as possible before they were stopped. Yet, the only
9:27
Speaker 1: people on the Temple so called hit list who wound
9:29
Speaker 1: up dead were the Millses, and they weren't killed until
9:33
Speaker 1: a full fifteen months after the Jonestown massacre. I think
9:37
Speaker 1: it's safe to say that the People's Temple hit squad
9:40
Speaker 1: was nothing more than a myth, though of course, that
9:42
Speaker 1: doesn't rule out the possibility of the crime being committed
9:45
Speaker 1: by someone who had a connection to the cult. That's
9:49
Speaker 1: why we brought up the interview with Lowell Striker because
9:52
Speaker 1: it opens up an interesting alternative theory. What if the
9:55
Speaker 1: perpetrator was someone who Genie had worked with in the
9:58
Speaker 1: past but at a major fall out with As a
10:01
Speaker 1: hypothetical example, let's say this person was a former People's
10:05
Speaker 1: Temple member who joined the Human Freedom Center, but then
10:08
Speaker 1: their relationship with Genie turned bad and they felt alienated
10:11
Speaker 1: by her. In response, they could have decided to invade
10:14
Speaker 1: the Mill's residence and commit these murders. Of course, that's
10:18
Speaker 1: all pure speculation, but as far as I can tell,
10:21
Speaker 1: the investigations never turned up any promising suspects besides Bettie.
10:26
Speaker 1: But the point is that by nineteen eighty both Genie
10:29
Speaker 1: and her husband had become recognizable figures after sharing their
10:32
Speaker 1: experiences with the People's Temple. So there's no shortage of
10:36
Speaker 1: people who might have had the motive to kill them,
10:38
Speaker 1: and they didn't necessarily have to be an assassin from
10:41
Speaker 1: a hit squad.
10:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all.
10:43
Speaker 3: And when you actually started to describe that, it makes
10:45
Speaker 3: sense that someone who let's say, had escaped the People's
10:47
Speaker 3: Temple and this abused this trauma. Maybe many people of
10:51
Speaker 3: their family were murdered down in Guyana. So let's assume
10:55
Speaker 3: they've already suffered significant trauma and loss under the of
11:00
Speaker 3: Jim Jones and the fellow members. And then they get
11:03
Speaker 3: out and they go and turn to Genie for refuge,
11:07
Speaker 3: and in their mind, she's exploiting people, she's looking for fame,
11:12
Speaker 3: she's also abusive, and could they see her as an
11:16
Speaker 3: extension of Jim Jones and have a trauma response to
11:20
Speaker 3: that and say she's got to be stopped before she
11:22
Speaker 3: continues to traumatize more people. I don't think that's the case,
11:26
Speaker 3: but it's another thing to think about instead of just oh,
11:29
Speaker 3: we want to execute all of our enemies, what if
11:31
Speaker 3: they viewed her as someone continuing almost the abuses that
11:34
Speaker 3: they were taught with in the cold.
11:37
Speaker 2: And if this is what happened, it could provide a
11:38
Speaker 2: potential explanation for why Eddie was spared if he is
11:41
Speaker 2: completely innocent, where all they cared about was Genie. They
11:44
Speaker 2: didn't so much care about Al or the two children.
11:47
Speaker 2: So if they came into her bedroom and Al and
11:50
Speaker 2: Da Fiene just happened to be there, they could have
11:52
Speaker 2: been killed because they were witnesses. But because Genie was
11:55
Speaker 2: the primary target, this person didn't bother checking the other rooms,
11:59
Speaker 2: and that could explain why Eddie survived on scathe. So
12:02
Speaker 2: one alternate theory which has been presented is that the
12:05
Speaker 2: original target was actually Timothy Stowen, as Joan also mentioned
12:09
Speaker 2: his name on his infamous death tape when he implied
12:11
Speaker 2: that his surviving followers were going to seek revenge. Long
12:15
Speaker 2: story short. Even though Stone had been Jones's right hand man,
12:18
Speaker 2: the relationship fell apart when Stone's infant son, John was
12:21
Speaker 2: born and Stowin signed AFFI David, which stated that Jones
12:25
Speaker 2: was the child's biological father. This began a lengthy custody
12:29
Speaker 2: battle between Stowe and Jones, which lasted several years, and tragically,
12:33
Speaker 2: John wound up being poisoned during the Jonestown massacre. At
12:37
Speaker 2: the age of six. Stone became such an outspoken opponent
12:41
Speaker 2: against the People's Temple that he worked together with the
12:43
Speaker 2: Millses to form the organization Concerned Relatives of People's Temple members.
12:48
Speaker 2: Jones reportedly felt so betrayed by Stowe's defection that he
12:52
Speaker 2: ordered his followers to write out detailed fantasies about murdering
12:56
Speaker 2: him anyway. Stowe had lived with the Millses at their
12:59
Speaker 2: cottage in Burger for a time, which is why it's
13:01
Speaker 2: been theorized that perhaps Stowin was the intended target and
13:05
Speaker 2: the perpetrator mistakenly believed he was still living there. However,
13:09
Speaker 2: I think this theory is completely undermined by the fact
13:12
Speaker 2: that Eddie was left unharmed. If the killer entered the
13:15
Speaker 2: residence with the express purpose of murdering Stowin, you think
13:18
Speaker 2: they would have checked every room to look for him.
13:21
Speaker 2: And if Eddie is telling the truth about being inside
13:23
Speaker 2: his bedroom the entire time, then it makes zero sense
13:26
Speaker 2: that the intruder would murder his family across the hall
13:29
Speaker 2: but not bother to enter Eddie's bedroom to see if
13:31
Speaker 2: Stowe was there. No, it seems pretty cut and dried
13:35
Speaker 2: that Al Genie or perhaps even day Feen were the
13:38
Speaker 2: intended targets, because after they were killed in the main bedroom,
13:41
Speaker 2: the shooter didn't seem concerned about anything else. Another big
13:45
Speaker 2: unanswered question is whether day Fiene just happened to be
13:48
Speaker 2: in her parents' bedroom when she was shot, or did
13:51
Speaker 2: she hear the shots and come running in there, or
13:54
Speaker 2: did the perpetrator find Dayfeen in her own room and
13:56
Speaker 2: bring her into the main bedroom before shooting all three
13:59
Speaker 2: of the victims. Again. If that's what happened, it's very
14:02
Speaker 2: odd that they wouldn't have even bothered to check Eddie's room. However,
14:06
Speaker 2: Al Jeanie or both of them were the intended targets.
14:09
Speaker 2: An intruder may not have cared about killing their children,
14:12
Speaker 2: but since Dayfien just happened to be in the bedroom
14:14
Speaker 2: at that time, they had to shoot her too because
14:17
Speaker 2: she was a witness.
14:19
Speaker 3: Do you think there was a robbery component to this.
14:22
Speaker 3: It's pretty brazen. It's in the mid evening. This isn't
14:26
Speaker 3: a time you would think that everyone's going to be
14:28
Speaker 3: asleep that you could go in there and you know,
14:30
Speaker 3: maybe get out without anyone noticing. I'm pretty sure they
14:33
Speaker 3: knew people were there, and it sounds like I don't
14:37
Speaker 3: often have like my kids and stuff in my bedroom,
14:40
Speaker 3: so especially like teenage kids. So I'm wondering if they intruded.
14:45
Speaker 3: They came in, they're like, you know, give me the safe,
14:48
Speaker 3: give me this whatever they're looking for, and they push
14:51
Speaker 3: everyone into the master bedroom because typically jewelry, money, things
14:54
Speaker 3: like that would be stored in the parents' bedroom. And
14:57
Speaker 3: then when there's a confrontation or something, and that's when
15:00
Speaker 3: they execute the three of them, and then holy cow,
15:03
Speaker 3: this robbery went bad. We need to get out of here.
15:05
Speaker 3: And so Eddie's just happens to be sound asleep through
15:08
Speaker 3: the whole thing and doesn't get awoken, nor do they
15:11
Speaker 3: look through rooms, because maybe the intended idea was there's
15:15
Speaker 3: something in that home they wanted and it ended up
15:18
Speaker 3: in a triple murder instead, and they rushed out.
15:21
Speaker 2: That is true. It was reported that nothing appeared to
15:23
Speaker 2: be stolen and there was no ransacking, but I guess
15:26
Speaker 2: it could be a possibility that that was their intention
15:28
Speaker 2: when they went in there, and once they killed someone,
15:31
Speaker 2: they panicked and ran out of there without stealing anything.
15:35
Speaker 2: We mentioned in our last episode that the Millses were
15:37
Speaker 2: known for keeping the front door unlocked so that their
15:39
Speaker 2: children's friends could come and go as they pleased, so
15:43
Speaker 2: they easily could have entered the home without causing any damage.
15:46
Speaker 2: And then when maybe, like you said, they asked for
15:49
Speaker 2: a safe to be opened, or they were looking for
15:50
Speaker 2: some valuables that weren't located there. It could be a
15:53
Speaker 2: case where whatever they wanted was in a safe deposit
15:56
Speaker 2: box at the bank, and when the Mills didn't hand
15:59
Speaker 2: over what they wanted, and that's what things escalated into violence,
16:02
Speaker 2: And this is why the perpetrator fled the scene without
16:05
Speaker 2: stealing anything.
16:08
Speaker 1: One of the most ironic things about this case is
16:11
Speaker 1: that if you looked into the backgrounds of both Eddie
16:13
Speaker 1: and Dayphen, most people who knew the family would have
16:16
Speaker 1: said that Dayphene was a much more likely candidate to
16:19
Speaker 1: have committed the crime, as she apparently had a volatile
16:22
Speaker 1: relationship with her parents at times. Like Eddie, Dayphene often
16:26
Speaker 1: had problems in school and clearly had difficulties adjusting to
16:30
Speaker 1: a normal life after spending her childhood in the people's temple.
16:34
Speaker 1: Following the murders, one of Dayphine's friends claimed that she
16:37
Speaker 1: briefly had run away from home two months earlier and
16:39
Speaker 1: came over to her house crying, where she showed a
16:42
Speaker 1: red mark on her cheek and said that her stepfather
16:44
Speaker 1: slapped her. We mentioned in our last episode, the police
16:48
Speaker 1: recovered a recording of a phone conversation in which Daiphine
16:51
Speaker 1: told a friend that she would get the family's house
16:53
Speaker 1: after she killed her parents. Though I get the impression
16:56
Speaker 1: that it was nothing more than a silly, sarcastic comment
16:59
Speaker 1: from a Jada teenager. Even if it wasn't, the evidence
17:03
Speaker 1: clearly shows that this crime was not a murder suicide.
17:06
Speaker 1: I guess another possible theory is that Dayphene could have
17:09
Speaker 1: been the intended target. All along and her mother and
17:12
Speaker 1: stepfather were just collateral damage. I would really like to
17:16
Speaker 1: know more details about this ex boyfriend of Dayphien's who
17:19
Speaker 1: claimed that he saw three men running out of the
17:21
Speaker 1: mills residence on the night of the crime, before they
17:23
Speaker 1: fled the scene in a Pontiac Granam driven by a
17:26
Speaker 1: fourth man. This witness's name has never been released publicly,
17:30
Speaker 1: and he's not mentioned during most accounts of the case,
17:33
Speaker 1: as we only found out about him through some newspaper
17:36
Speaker 1: articles which were published in the months following the murders.
17:39
Speaker 1: I know police did not consider him to be a
17:41
Speaker 1: credible witness because he had a history of troubles with
17:43
Speaker 1: the law, and while he did pass a polygraph test,
17:47
Speaker 1: there's pretty much been no further mention of him after
17:49
Speaker 1: that unless investigators found compelling evidence to completely discount his story.
17:55
Speaker 1: It's odd that it isn't given more credence because this
17:58
Speaker 1: is the only eyewitness count which places outside intruders at
18:02
Speaker 1: the Mills's residence. Of course, if you want a really
18:05
Speaker 1: off the wall theory, perhaps this guy committed the murderers
18:08
Speaker 1: because he wanted revenge on date been for their breakup,
18:11
Speaker 1: and then fabricated the story about the men in the
18:13
Speaker 1: car in order to take the heat off himself. But
18:16
Speaker 1: that obviously is just wild speculation.
18:19
Speaker 3: I think that's a definite possibility, but I think it's
18:21
Speaker 3: a low one because, like you said, he you know, yes,
18:24
Speaker 3: he had a history with trouble with the law, but
18:27
Speaker 3: he sounds like another I mean, he's a young kid.
18:31
Speaker 3: I think he just seems like someone who's struggling through
18:34
Speaker 3: life and has this breakup. I don't see that as
18:37
Speaker 3: a motivation to go kill three people. And in fact,
18:41
Speaker 3: the fact that he passed a lie detector test, Yes
18:44
Speaker 3: they're not admissible in court, but they can reveal a
18:46
Speaker 3: lot of information to police. So while he is able
18:50
Speaker 3: to not only say I wasn't involved, but also this
18:52
Speaker 3: is what I saw, and that passes a lie detector test,
18:55
Speaker 3: it's definitely something that needed to be explored. They end
18:59
Speaker 3: up focusing and I believe only on the son Eddie,
19:02
Speaker 3: and you have somebody here. Yes, his background's questionable, but
19:06
Speaker 3: you went ahead and polygraphed him anyway, and the information
19:09
Speaker 3: he shared past that polygraph. So shouldn't that be an
19:13
Speaker 3: equally fair observation to say we're going to go down
19:17
Speaker 3: this road and look for who these three people could
19:19
Speaker 3: be in this type of car, and who the driver
19:22
Speaker 3: might have been.
19:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does seem like the whole situation reeks
19:25
Speaker 2: of tunnel vision, because regardless of whether or not Eddie
19:29
Speaker 2: was the killer, it seems like right from the outset,
19:31
Speaker 2: law enforcement settled on their theory that Eddie murdered his
19:35
Speaker 2: family and that was the only angle that they were
19:37
Speaker 2: going to look at. So when we have this eyewitness
19:40
Speaker 2: account which places other people in the Mills home, it
19:43
Speaker 2: seems like they're saying to themselves, well, this kid has
19:46
Speaker 2: troubles with the law. He's not a reliable witness, so
19:48
Speaker 2: we're just going to completely discount it, even though if
19:51
Speaker 2: he is telling the truth, then this leans towards someone
19:54
Speaker 2: else other than Eddie being the killers.
19:57
Speaker 1: And I think if you're going to apply the same
19:59
Speaker 1: logic that like a teenager is capable of murder and
20:02
Speaker 1: they could have those similar motivations, then they should have
20:05
Speaker 1: done their due diligence just to eliminate the boyfriend or
20:08
Speaker 1: dug in a little bit deeper. I agree with Ashley.
20:11
Speaker 1: I think the probabilities low that he's the one that
20:13
Speaker 1: committed the crimes, but I think that because we know
20:16
Speaker 1: nothing about his background, and because we know nothing about
20:19
Speaker 1: him except what he says that he saw and that
20:22
Speaker 1: he dated day Feene, I think there's a myriad of
20:24
Speaker 1: possibilities that we just aren't privy to the information.
20:29
Speaker 2: However, another piece of evidence which seems to support the
20:31
Speaker 2: intruder theory and has only gotten mentioned in a handful
20:34
Speaker 2: of newspaper articles, is the claim from Eddie's half sister Linda,
20:38
Speaker 2: that she received an anonymous phone call from someone informing
20:42
Speaker 2: her that al and Jeanie had been killed. At least
20:45
Speaker 2: one source stated that the call took place at around
20:47
Speaker 2: nine thirty pm, which is around the same time police
20:50
Speaker 2: were someone of the scene. So assuming that Linda is
20:53
Speaker 2: telling the truth, the caller had to have had some
20:55
Speaker 2: inside knowledge, and since Linda said the caller was a female,
20:59
Speaker 2: this rules out the possibility of it being Eddie. So
21:03
Speaker 2: who was this woman and how did she know about
21:05
Speaker 2: the murders. It's worth noting that when Eddie was arrested
21:08
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five, Linda publicly expressed her belief
21:11
Speaker 2: that he was innocent, and if she really did receive
21:13
Speaker 2: that anonymous call, then you can understand why Linda would
21:16
Speaker 2: be inclined to feel this way, since it leans towards
21:19
Speaker 2: someone else being the killer.
21:21
Speaker 3: That's incredibly interesting. By nine thirty thirty minutes after the
21:25
Speaker 3: bodies are discovered, it's not going to be on the
21:28
Speaker 3: news and it's not going to be widespread information. Next
21:31
Speaker 3: to Ken probably hadn't been notified. And so the idea
21:35
Speaker 3: that she gets this phone call from a woman. I'm
21:38
Speaker 3: assuming they tried to trace the calls. This isn't like
21:41
Speaker 3: nineteen forty, you know, did they get any information there?
21:45
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I don't have that. I mean, I've seen a
21:47
Speaker 2: lot of cases from the early nineteen eighties or seventies
21:51
Speaker 2: where there's a key piece of evidence is a phone call,
21:54
Speaker 2: but you never find out if they verify phone records
21:57
Speaker 2: to see where the call originated from. So I don't
22:00
Speaker 2: know if they didn't have the technology back then, or
22:02
Speaker 2: maybe because they were so focused on Eddie and thought
22:05
Speaker 2: he was the perpetrator, maybe they just completely ignored this
22:08
Speaker 2: lead altogether.
22:10
Speaker 1: I think we were about ten years ahead of easy
22:13
Speaker 1: phone tracing technology because I think it became I mean,
22:17
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong with either of you guys, know,
22:19
Speaker 1: but I think in the nineties it became like a
22:21
Speaker 1: given that police had access to that technology, but in
22:25
Speaker 1: the eighties it feels like it would have been rather rudimentary.
22:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have heard of some cases from the eighties
22:31
Speaker 2: where they did use that technology, but I think it
22:33
Speaker 2: would depend on the location and the police department and
22:36
Speaker 2: if they had the technology to do that and the
22:38
Speaker 2: resources at that time. So I could go either way.
22:41
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that Berkeley was a fairly large city,
22:44
Speaker 2: but I couldn't say with any certainty if they could
22:46
Speaker 2: trace phone calls back in nineteen eighty.
22:50
Speaker 1: So now we have to talk about Eddie himself, who
22:53
Speaker 1: quite frankly, seems to be a bit of an enigma.
22:56
Speaker 1: At the time of the murders, he dropped out of
22:58
Speaker 1: high school and was mostly spending his time helping his
23:01
Speaker 1: stepfather remodel old homes as student rentals. Of course, Eddie's
23:05
Speaker 1: childhood and the People's Temple would be difficult enough because
23:09
Speaker 1: of the abuse that he was forced to endure, but
23:11
Speaker 1: another thing which must have had a devastating psychological effect
23:15
Speaker 1: was the fact that he grew up alongside a number
23:17
Speaker 1: of other children in the temple who were friends of his,
23:20
Speaker 1: and a lot of them wound up losing their lives
23:22
Speaker 1: during the Jonestown massacre. That obviously played a role in
23:26
Speaker 1: making Eddie a quiet, with drawn teenager, But if he
23:29
Speaker 1: displayed any red flags which suggested that he was capable
23:32
Speaker 1: of murdering his family, it doesn't sound like anyone ever
23:35
Speaker 1: said anything. We also don't know much about Eddie's life
23:39
Speaker 1: after the crime took place, except that he got married,
23:42
Speaker 1: had two children, and eventually moved to Japan. So if
23:45
Speaker 1: Eddie is guilty, he seemed to have no issues moving
23:48
Speaker 1: on with his life after committing an act of familicide.
23:52
Speaker 1: The main evidence against Eddie is the traces of gunshot
23:55
Speaker 1: residue which were found on his right hand, but you
23:58
Speaker 1: have to remember that it was a pretty chroscopic amount.
24:01
Speaker 1: It certainly wasn't enough to charge him with the murders
24:03
Speaker 1: at the time, though if he wash or wiped his
24:06
Speaker 1: hands after firing a gun, that might explain why the
24:09
Speaker 1: amount wasn't bigger.
24:11
Speaker 2: There's been a.
24:11
Speaker 1: Lot of debate over the years about the reliability of
24:14
Speaker 1: gunshot residue was evidence, as the presence does not conclusively
24:18
Speaker 1: prove that someone fired a gun. In fact, there's even
24:21
Speaker 1: one documented wrongful conviction case in which an innocent man
24:25
Speaker 1: named Sebaine Burgess spent nearly twenty years in prison for
24:28
Speaker 1: the murder of his girlfriend based solely on the presence
24:31
Speaker 1: of gunshot residue on his hands. It turned out this
24:35
Speaker 1: GSR had actually transferred onto Burgess's hands while he was
24:38
Speaker 1: cradling his girlfriend's body, so his conviction was overturned after
24:42
Speaker 1: the evidence was proven to be scientifically unsound. While I've
24:46
Speaker 1: never seen any indication that Eddie touched his family's bodies
24:49
Speaker 1: after they were killed, that could provide one potentially innocent
24:53
Speaker 1: explanation for how GSR transferred to his hand. This type
24:57
Speaker 1: of transfer can also occur by touching surfaces which have
25:00
Speaker 1: been contaminated by GSR, or even something as simple as
25:03
Speaker 1: shaking hands with another person you fired a gun earlier
25:06
Speaker 1: that day. We're not saying that's necessarily what happened in
25:09
Speaker 1: this case, but if there's no corroborating evidence to implicate
25:13
Speaker 1: Eddie besides microscopic traces of GSR, then I can understand
25:17
Speaker 1: the reluctance to charge him with this crime.
25:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:20
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean you have to think about it. I
25:23
Speaker 3: love the idea of a simple handshake with the police
25:25
Speaker 3: officer they're like, hey, son, wake up, you know, and
25:28
Speaker 3: he's crying. Let's say he's upset that he just found
25:31
Speaker 3: out his family dies, and an officer puts his arm
25:33
Speaker 3: around him and shakes his hand, and it's like, you know,
25:34
Speaker 3: hang in there, buddy, we're gonna be okay. That alone
25:38
Speaker 3: could account for that. Or if Eddie, let's say, walks
25:40
Speaker 3: by and you know, near where the event happened and
25:44
Speaker 3: brushes against the wall or the door or something like that,
25:47
Speaker 3: it could have easily transferred there. So oh man, it's
25:51
Speaker 3: just really it's this kind of dual thought.
25:54
Speaker 2: For me.
25:55
Speaker 3: Eddie was the target of the police investigation, so obviously
25:58
Speaker 3: you're like, well, you know, there was a re they
26:00
Speaker 3: had suspicion. He's in the home he quote doesn't hear anything,
26:04
Speaker 3: but neither do the neighbors. He seems to sleep through
26:07
Speaker 3: their murders, and his poor grandmother finds the deceased family
26:10
Speaker 3: members and then him sleeping. So it seems odd. But
26:15
Speaker 3: then you step back and you also have a lot
26:16
Speaker 3: of grief for him, because if he is not the
26:20
Speaker 3: one who did this, and he is the one who
26:23
Speaker 3: four decades has been the one the police say, that's
26:26
Speaker 3: our only suspect that we have. In fact, they arrest
26:29
Speaker 3: him at some point when he lands back on American soil.
26:32
Speaker 3: There's a lot of empathy there of saying, my god,
26:34
Speaker 3: he really he's suffered enough, and there's got to be
26:38
Speaker 3: another another avenue you could at least pursue in tandem
26:42
Speaker 3: with Eddie.
26:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we're going to talk about, this became the
26:45
Speaker 2: subject of a cold case investigation decades after the fact,
26:48
Speaker 2: which is what led to Eddie being arrested. And while
26:51
Speaker 2: it's unclear what new evidence they may have found against him,
26:54
Speaker 2: it really does seem like they have not wavered from
26:56
Speaker 2: their original belief that Eddie was the killer, even though
26:59
Speaker 2: there was pretty much much almost zero evidence against him
27:02
Speaker 2: other than the small traces of GSR. But theoretically, let's
27:06
Speaker 2: say that Eddie did this, he would then have to
27:09
Speaker 2: leave the house and dispose of the murder weapon before returning,
27:12
Speaker 2: and he obviously did a pretty thorough job. Since the
27:15
Speaker 2: police searched about a dozen different properties and never found anything,
27:18
Speaker 2: that's certainly not impossible. But again, we're talking about a
27:21
Speaker 2: seventeen year old kid, not a criminal mastermind. It's also
27:25
Speaker 2: unclear if they checked Eddie's clothes for gunshot residue. By
27:29
Speaker 2: his own admission, Eddie took a long shower that night,
27:31
Speaker 2: which would have given him an opportunity to clean up
27:33
Speaker 2: potential evidence. And if it turned out that he also
27:36
Speaker 2: threw his clothing into the washing machine shortly before the
27:39
Speaker 2: bodies were discovered, then yes, that would look very suspicious.
27:43
Speaker 2: But again, I don't see any indication that his clothing
27:46
Speaker 2: was tested. I've seen a map of the layout of
27:49
Speaker 2: the Mills residence and it looks like they had two bathrooms.
27:52
Speaker 2: The one more Genie's body was found was adjacent to
27:54
Speaker 2: the main bedroom, but the second bathroom was in the
27:57
Speaker 2: hallway next to Eddie's room. E's have been specifically stated
28:01
Speaker 2: at what point during the evening Eddie claimed he took
28:04
Speaker 2: a shower. If the murders took place while he was
28:07
Speaker 2: inside the shower, then I actually believe he might not
28:09
Speaker 2: have heard the shots, and if he then went straight
28:11
Speaker 2: to his room without looking through the doorway of his
28:14
Speaker 2: parents' bedroom, he might not have noticed his family was
28:16
Speaker 2: lying dead inside. However, the intruder would have had to
28:20
Speaker 2: pass the bathroom in order to reach the bedroom, so
28:22
Speaker 2: what they have not heard the sound of the shower
28:24
Speaker 2: and checked inside there.
28:27
Speaker 3: Well, also you got to think if it was like
28:29
Speaker 3: we talked about earlier, where someone came in, let's say
28:31
Speaker 3: as an intruder, or they were looking for money and
28:34
Speaker 3: they didn't get what they wanted. Let's say Dad became confrontational.
28:38
Speaker 3: Let's say Mom tried to you know, push them or
28:40
Speaker 3: take the gun out of their hand or something like that,
28:43
Speaker 3: and they end up shooting them. And there's a panic.
28:46
Speaker 3: Even if they knew there's somebody in the shower, there's
28:50
Speaker 3: clear evidence that that person that has no way of
28:53
Speaker 3: knowing they were in there or identifying who they are.
28:56
Speaker 3: So they're just like, you know, forget it, and they
28:58
Speaker 3: run out the front door, out the door, and so
29:01
Speaker 3: I could see them being aware that he's in there,
29:04
Speaker 3: and because the water is still running, there's no risks
29:07
Speaker 3: to them. And they said, oh my god, we didn't
29:09
Speaker 3: come here to kill someone. We just killed three people.
29:11
Speaker 3: And off they go.
29:12
Speaker 1: And what if they're interrupted, if like they think that
29:16
Speaker 1: somebody could have heard them, seen them, and they planned
29:18
Speaker 1: on being there longer, and they might have planned on
29:21
Speaker 1: ending Eddie's life, but because he was in the shower,
29:24
Speaker 1: they had to hurry and end the lives of the
29:25
Speaker 1: people who were there and had seen their faces, and
29:28
Speaker 1: then they rushed out without him, And like, they would
29:31
Speaker 1: have had to have happened really fast if that was
29:33
Speaker 1: the case, because what is the typical time that a
29:36
Speaker 1: teenage boy takes in the shower, like what like eight minutes?
29:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it could be a thing where they hear
29:41
Speaker 2: the shower running. But they figure, well, if he's in there,
29:44
Speaker 2: then obviously he can't identify us. He's not a witness,
29:47
Speaker 2: and they figure it might be an even bigger risk
29:49
Speaker 2: if we go into the bathroom and kill him. So
29:52
Speaker 2: if they left the house in a panic, then they
29:54
Speaker 2: probably could have figured, well, we're not going to worry
29:56
Speaker 2: about the person in the bathroom because we're still going
29:58
Speaker 2: to get away with it.
30:01
Speaker 1: This same logic applies if Eddie was inside his bedroom
30:04
Speaker 1: watching television while the murders took place. Theoretically, the volume
30:09
Speaker 1: could have been loud enough to drown out the gunshots.
30:12
Speaker 1: But wouldn't the intruder have been able to hear the
30:14
Speaker 1: television from outside and entered the bedroom to check. We
30:17
Speaker 1: read an article about this case published in a nineteen
30:20
Speaker 1: ninety two issue of Psychology Today magazine which stated that
30:24
Speaker 1: Eddie had also been listening to a stereo in his
30:26
Speaker 1: bedroom with headphones on. If true, this would explain how
30:30
Speaker 1: Eddie could have conceivably not heard the gunshots without making
30:34
Speaker 1: any noise to attract attention. But we've not seen that
30:37
Speaker 1: detail about the headphones mentioned in any other source, including
30:41
Speaker 1: the dozens of newspaper articles written about these murders, so
30:44
Speaker 1: I can confirm if that particular detail is true. In
30:48
Speaker 1: Eddie's defense, none of the other neighbors or residents in
30:51
Speaker 1: the area reported hearing gunshots that night either. The murder
30:55
Speaker 1: weapon was a twenty two caliber pistol, which does make
30:58
Speaker 1: some noise, but there are some YouTube videos out there
31:01
Speaker 1: about people putting a suppressor on a twenty two before
31:04
Speaker 1: firing it, and the sound really wasn't all that loud
31:07
Speaker 1: at all. So if an intruder used some sort of
31:10
Speaker 1: silencer when they fired these shots, then it isn't quite
31:13
Speaker 1: as hard to believe that Eddie might not have heard it. Well.
31:16
Speaker 1: There were no signs of forced entry. The Mills's neighbors
31:19
Speaker 1: confirmed that it wasn't uncommon for them to leave the
31:22
Speaker 1: front door unlocked, so it's not completely implausible that an
31:26
Speaker 1: intruder could have just walked into the house and committed
31:28
Speaker 1: these murders without Eddie noticing.
31:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's really possible. I mean, I'm in
31:33
Speaker 3: the if I'm in the zone and I'm singing in
31:35
Speaker 3: the shower and things like that, I don't hear the
31:37
Speaker 3: baby cry, I don't hear things. My bedroom door shut,
31:40
Speaker 3: there's the you know, I'm in the shower, the water's running.
31:43
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're making noise yourself or you know, so I
31:46
Speaker 3: could absolutely.
31:47
Speaker 2: See him not hearing.
31:49
Speaker 3: And then again, I I'm going back to could the
31:53
Speaker 3: daughter have been the target? If there's these three men,
31:56
Speaker 3: is it possible that she just shared information with the
31:59
Speaker 3: wrong people? You know that she know she was in
32:03
Speaker 3: a vulnerable position with a group of people that she
32:05
Speaker 3: thought might have cared about her. Was expressing things, could
32:08
Speaker 3: have disclosed my parents have this at the house, or
32:11
Speaker 3: you know, my parents are loaded. Could there have been
32:14
Speaker 3: something where she accidentally shared confidential information or something that
32:19
Speaker 3: made her family vulnerable and they came in and again
32:23
Speaker 3: attacked for some reason, maybe not even being the main
32:26
Speaker 3: goal to hurt somebody, but maybe she recognized them, and
32:30
Speaker 3: you know, then they freaked down and they thought that
32:33
Speaker 3: they had to kill them. I but I do believe
32:35
Speaker 3: Eddie could have not heard the sounds for sure.
32:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it is possible that all these murders
32:40
Speaker 2: have nothing to do with the People's Temple, nothing to
32:43
Speaker 2: do with Jonestown or Al or Genie. And like you said,
32:46
Speaker 2: maybe Da Fien was the intended target, or she shared
32:50
Speaker 2: information about her parents storing valuables in the house. And
32:53
Speaker 2: because law enforcement was so focused on the People's Temple
32:57
Speaker 2: angle and was so focused on Eddie, this particular angle
33:00
Speaker 2: just slipped right through their fingers. And that's why no
33:02
Speaker 2: one has popped up on the radar as a suspect
33:05
Speaker 2: of personal interest as long as the perpetrators have managed
33:08
Speaker 2: to keep quiet about it for the past forty five years.
33:11
Speaker 2: But if Eddie was the perpetrator, his plan was rather odd.
33:15
Speaker 2: After disposing of the murder weapon, he shuts himself inside
33:18
Speaker 2: his bedroom until his grandmother arrives and discovers the bodies.
33:22
Speaker 2: I know it's not uncommon for killers to deliberately arrange
33:24
Speaker 2: things so that independent eye witnesses discover their victims' bodies,
33:28
Speaker 2: But did Edy know beforehand that his grandmother was going
33:31
Speaker 2: to be visiting the cottage at that particular time of night.
33:34
Speaker 2: I mean, what if she had decided to show up
33:36
Speaker 2: while he was outside disposing of the murder weapon. Again,
33:39
Speaker 2: this is an inexperienced kid, not a criminal mastermind, but
33:43
Speaker 2: you'd think a guilty person would try to concoct a
33:45
Speaker 2: better cover story. Then I was directly across the hall
33:48
Speaker 2: of my bedroom while my family was shot, and I
33:50
Speaker 2: didn't hear anything. In terms of potential motive, Eddie did
33:54
Speaker 2: wind up inheriting over two hundred thousand dollars from his
33:57
Speaker 2: family's estate, though he did not actually receive any of
34:00
Speaker 2: that money until over three years later. Now, Alan Jeanie
34:04
Speaker 2: had arranged things so that their estate was divided equally,
34:07
Speaker 2: as all of their children were from previous marriages rather
34:10
Speaker 2: than with each other. This meant that when the assets
34:13
Speaker 2: were dispersed, Eddie wound up getting the largest portion since
34:16
Speaker 2: he was Genie's only surviving heir, whereas Al's three children
34:19
Speaker 2: had to divide up his portion of the estate, which
34:22
Speaker 2: is why they got smaller amounts. The point is that
34:25
Speaker 2: it's unclear if Eddie would have even been aware how
34:28
Speaker 2: much money he was entitled to receive following these murders.
34:31
Speaker 2: So I can't be certain if that would have been
34:33
Speaker 2: his primary motive. I guess an alternate possibility is that
34:37
Speaker 2: Eddie could have gotten someone else to kill his family
34:39
Speaker 2: and get rid of the murder weapon when they left. So,
34:42
Speaker 2: even if the eyewitness account of the three men leaving
34:44
Speaker 2: the house and Linda's story about the anonymous phone call
34:47
Speaker 2: are accurate, that just means that there were others involved
34:50
Speaker 2: in the crime and Eddie is still guilty. But then,
34:53
Speaker 2: why would anyone agree to murder Eddie's family on his
34:56
Speaker 2: behalf as a seventeen year old. It's not like he
34:59
Speaker 2: would have had mone much money to pay them. So
35:01
Speaker 2: as it stands, we do have a few reasons to
35:03
Speaker 2: be suspicious of Eddie, but not much actionable evidence which
35:07
Speaker 2: could be used to prosecute him in court.
35:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, he'd have to be a pretty sophisticated individual and
35:13
Speaker 3: be someone who could hide a severe mental illness from
35:17
Speaker 3: his family. But remember, all of his family supports him
35:20
Speaker 3: after the deaths. In fact, he's living with relatives and
35:24
Speaker 3: an uncle I believe, right, or a brother.
35:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's half brother, which was Al's son from a
35:29
Speaker 2: previous marriage.
35:30
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, And all the family members are defending him
35:33
Speaker 3: and things of that nature. If there was even a
35:35
Speaker 3: hint that you had some kind of mental illness where
35:39
Speaker 3: you didn't care about other people, you had this ability
35:42
Speaker 3: to probably do something pretty dark and not care. I
35:45
Speaker 3: feel like the family would pick up on that when
35:47
Speaker 3: he resides with you, when he lives with you, when
35:49
Speaker 3: you watch his grief journey. He's a kid, So to
35:54
Speaker 3: be able to hide that and to have mastered how
35:56
Speaker 3: to be incredibly manipulative and dark seventeen to conceal murders
36:02
Speaker 3: and any kind of elaborate plans that would be wild
36:06
Speaker 3: to me. And how devious do you have to be
36:10
Speaker 3: to allow your poor grandmother to walk in the house
36:13
Speaker 3: and find her child deceased along with her grandbaby and
36:17
Speaker 3: in law, you know, daughter or son in law, daughter
36:20
Speaker 3: in law. That's that's sick that you would be like, hey,
36:23
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm just gonna let her find their
36:25
Speaker 3: deceased bodies and not just deceased an executed, you know,
36:29
Speaker 3: three loved ones. So that adds depravity to the case.
36:33
Speaker 3: If you think that Eddie's the one who orchestrated it,
36:36
Speaker 3: he's going to harass another person in the family via
36:40
Speaker 3: a phone call he's going to get the grandmother to
36:42
Speaker 3: walk in and have this tragedy occur for her, and
36:44
Speaker 3: then he's going to be able to live out a
36:46
Speaker 3: life where he doesn't reflect any kind of behavior that
36:50
Speaker 3: indicates he's capable. It's quite advanced at starting at age seventeen.
36:56
Speaker 1: I think the fact that the family supports Eddie speaks
36:59
Speaker 1: really highly for him, especially when you factor in the
37:02
Speaker 1: situation where we know that when inheritances are involved, people
37:06
Speaker 1: can get really weird about money in the best of circumstances,
37:09
Speaker 1: But when there's a family that's deceased and you believe
37:12
Speaker 1: that your biological parent has been murdered by your half brother,
37:18
Speaker 1: then you're likely to tell law enforcement. And the reasons
37:22
Speaker 1: would be twofold, probably because you want justice, and the
37:26
Speaker 1: second might be because you're hoping to get a larger
37:28
Speaker 1: stake of that inheritance. But they not only stood by him,
37:32
Speaker 1: they had him living with them, So I think that
37:35
Speaker 1: says that they don't believe that he's capable of that.
37:38
Speaker 2: I definitely think it says a lot that they didn't
37:40
Speaker 2: turn on him after the inheritance was split up, because
37:42
Speaker 2: Al's children could have easily said, hey, it's not fair
37:45
Speaker 2: that he's getting a bigger piece of the pie. He's
37:47
Speaker 2: getting more money than us, and used as an excuse
37:49
Speaker 2: to point the figure at him and accuse him of murder.
37:52
Speaker 2: But by two thousand and five, when Eddie was being
37:55
Speaker 2: arrested and charged with the murders, they were still defending
37:57
Speaker 2: him after all these years, which I like you said,
38:00
Speaker 2: I think says a lot.
38:02
Speaker 1: Not sure the Berkeley Police Department would have reopened the
38:05
Speaker 1: case and decided to arrest Eddie twenty five years after
38:08
Speaker 1: the fact if the only evidence they had was a
38:11
Speaker 1: microscopic trace of gunshot residue on his hand. They must
38:15
Speaker 1: have dug up something else to implicate him. But whatever
38:18
Speaker 1: it was, it doesn't sound like it was strong enough
38:20
Speaker 1: for the District Attorney's office to charge him. After Eddie
38:23
Speaker 1: was released from custody, it was interesting to read an
38:26
Speaker 1: interview in the San Francisco Chronicle with Russ Lopes, the
38:29
Speaker 1: cold case investigator who built the case against Eddie. Lopes
38:33
Speaker 1: was brought out of retirement by the Berkeley PD to
38:36
Speaker 1: specifically investigate their older cold cases, and he also worked
38:40
Speaker 1: on the unsolved nineteen seventy murder of a Berkeley police
38:43
Speaker 1: officer named Ronald Sukamoto. Much like the Mills case, Lopes
38:47
Speaker 1: was certain he'd figured out who the guilty party was
38:49
Speaker 1: in the Sukamoto murder and submitted the case to the
38:52
Speaker 1: Alameda County District Attorney's office, but they did not feel
38:56
Speaker 1: the evidence was strong enough to file charges. So when
38:59
Speaker 1: the same thing happened with Eddie, Lopes got incredibly frustrated
39:03
Speaker 1: and stated, quote, even if you're not absolutely one hundred
39:07
Speaker 1: percent sure you'll win at the trial, you take it
39:09
Speaker 1: to trial and let the jury decide. Weaker cases have
39:13
Speaker 1: gone to trial end quote. Well, the problem is that
39:16
Speaker 1: trials cost time and money, and prosecutors don't like to
39:20
Speaker 1: bring cases to court if they don't believe they have
39:22
Speaker 1: a good chance of winning, especially since you can't try
39:25
Speaker 1: someone a second time if they're found not guilty. Eddie
39:29
Speaker 1: steps sister Linda believed that Lopes had major tunnel vision
39:33
Speaker 1: and refuse to consider looking at other suspects, stating quote,
39:36
Speaker 1: I think he's power trippling personally, I think he's taking
39:39
Speaker 1: advantage of his power end quote. Well, without knowing the
39:43
Speaker 1: full details of the case that Lope submitted to the DA,
39:47
Speaker 1: I have no idea if Linda's statements are accurate. But
39:49
Speaker 1: I'm willing to acknowledge that there may have been tunnel
39:52
Speaker 1: vision from the very beginning. And since Eddie was the
39:55
Speaker 1: only one who survived the massacre, police refuse to believe
39:58
Speaker 1: that anyone else was the killer.
40:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when you look at it, it's Eddie's
40:04
Speaker 3: the easy choice. Eddie's the one that you go, oh
40:06
Speaker 3: my gosh, this is a kid. Remember it's the seventies
40:10
Speaker 3: and love and all this other peace and love and drugs.
40:13
Speaker 3: But law enforcement doesn't like these people that use drugs
40:16
Speaker 3: and things. Weed was a bigger deal back then than
40:19
Speaker 3: it is now. And so they come to this triple murder.
40:22
Speaker 3: They see a kid who says, hey, I was stoned.
40:25
Speaker 3: I was hanging out in my bedroom. Didn't hear anything.
40:28
Speaker 3: There's got to be a quick frustration and a quick
40:31
Speaker 3: sense of doubt to say, there's no way you slept
40:34
Speaker 3: through the execution of your family. And we know that
40:37
Speaker 3: there are many ways that could have happened. But for
40:40
Speaker 3: a law enforcement officer, I could see this quick jump
40:43
Speaker 3: to no reason you would have been spared, no reason
40:46
Speaker 3: you would have been able to sleep through this, And
40:48
Speaker 3: so that quick on the scene assumption then kind of
40:54
Speaker 3: derails any other focus on anyone else you have Linda,
40:57
Speaker 3: And Linda is the one who actually got the phone call.
41:00
Speaker 2: Am I correct? Yeah, that's correct.
41:02
Speaker 3: Okay, So Linda gets this phone call from a woman
41:06
Speaker 3: thirty minutes after the family's been executed, before anyone would
41:09
Speaker 3: possibly know that this had occurred. So to her, there
41:13
Speaker 3: is such a deep, fiery conviction inside of her that
41:17
Speaker 3: Eddie didn't do this. Someone was able to take information
41:22
Speaker 3: from someone call me and know how to find me
41:27
Speaker 3: and tell me that my family had been killed. And
41:29
Speaker 3: then poor Eddie has to deal with the consequences in
41:32
Speaker 3: the guilt that he's the only survivor in that home.
41:34
Speaker 3: And so again I think I understand the jump to
41:39
Speaker 3: a conclusion a rush like how that naturally occurred. But
41:43
Speaker 3: when you step back that story that the ex boyfriend
41:47
Speaker 3: saw people leaving, that he named a type of car,
41:51
Speaker 3: that he passed a polygraph with the information he had provided,
41:54
Speaker 3: and that Eddie doesn't have anything else, but that's tiny
41:58
Speaker 3: traces of gunshot residue. You know, you can wash your
42:02
Speaker 3: hands and still have gunshot residue on there. And so
42:04
Speaker 3: the fact that it's possible he just simply shook hands
42:07
Speaker 3: with someone and had this minute trace. I just don't
42:12
Speaker 3: think it's Eddie. The more I listen to this, I
42:14
Speaker 3: don't think it's Eddie because again, the number of family
42:17
Speaker 3: members he had to so laxadaisically not mind that they
42:21
Speaker 3: were going to be traumatized for the rest of their life.
42:24
Speaker 3: His poor aunt gets his phone call to be told
42:27
Speaker 3: that her family was executed. The poor grandmother walks in
42:29
Speaker 3: and finds her three loved ones executed. He has to
42:32
Speaker 3: deal with the relationships with all the surviving people, and
42:36
Speaker 3: he stays deeply engaged in the family. If he killed them,
42:40
Speaker 3: take your money and leave and don't be integrated with them.
42:43
Speaker 3: But he stands beside his half siblings and he's working
42:47
Speaker 3: with them through his grief, living with them, growing with them.
42:51
Speaker 3: So I just don't see him staying that tightly entwined
42:54
Speaker 3: with them if he was the one who caused all
42:56
Speaker 3: of this in the first place.
42:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, rest lopes is and really rubbed me the wrong way.
43:01
Speaker 2: This idea that, well, it's a weak case, but we
43:04
Speaker 2: still should have taken him to trial. But if you
43:06
Speaker 2: think about well that happened, like you would have people
43:09
Speaker 2: like Linda testifying about the phone call from the woman,
43:12
Speaker 2: and if they were able to track down Dayfied's ex boyfriend,
43:14
Speaker 2: they could have got him to testify about the men
43:17
Speaker 2: seen running away from the residents and climbing into a van.
43:20
Speaker 2: So that would have created a lot of reasonable doubt.
43:22
Speaker 2: And I have a feeling that Eddie would have been
43:24
Speaker 2: acquitted with the evidence that they had now. So the
43:27
Speaker 2: fact that Lope still thinks that they should have gone
43:29
Speaker 2: to trial and potentially jailed an innocent man is shows
43:34
Speaker 2: that he had serious tunnel vision. And it's a good
43:36
Speaker 2: thing that they elected not to file charges. One of
43:41
Speaker 2: the reasons it's so easy to place all the focus
43:43
Speaker 2: on Eddie is because the investigation has failed to uncover
43:46
Speaker 2: any compelling alternate suspects these past four decades. But what
43:50
Speaker 2: if Linda is right and the police have just refused
43:52
Speaker 2: to consider other suspects, causing them to let the real
43:55
Speaker 2: killer to slip through their fingers. You could be skeptical
43:58
Speaker 2: of Eddie's story all you want, but it's not impossible
44:01
Speaker 2: that an outside intruder could have entered the residence and
44:03
Speaker 2: murdered the rest of his family while he was in
44:06
Speaker 2: another room. I hate to say this, but I'm really
44:08
Speaker 2: not sure where I stand on this case. Every time
44:11
Speaker 2: I feel certain that Eddie must have been the perpetrator,
44:14
Speaker 2: I start wondering about how he managed to get rid
44:16
Speaker 2: of the murder weapon and pull this off without leaving
44:19
Speaker 2: any damning evidence behind. I do think that the rumors
44:22
Speaker 2: about People's Temple hit squads are bunk, but the crime
44:25
Speaker 2: does still have the ear marks of her professional hit.
44:28
Speaker 2: And since the Millses were high profile figures with no
44:31
Speaker 2: shortage of potential enemies, I can see someone else committing
44:34
Speaker 2: this crime. All I know is that the story of
44:37
Speaker 2: Jim Jones, the People's Temple, and the Jonestown massacre has
44:40
Speaker 2: become so iconic and larger than life that this tragic
44:44
Speaker 2: epilogue to the story is somewhat overlooked. Was Jonestown actually
44:48
Speaker 2: a factor in these murders or is it nothing more
44:50
Speaker 2: than a red herring. Whatever the case, if you happen
44:53
Speaker 2: to have any information on the unsolved murders of al
44:56
Speaker 2: Jeanie and Daphene Mills, please contact the Berkeley Police Department
45:00
Speaker 2: and at five one zero nine to eight one five
45:02
Speaker 2: nine zero zero. That's five one zero nine eight one
45:06
Speaker 2: five nine zero zero, Jules Ashley, any final thoughts in
45:10
Speaker 2: the case.
45:11
Speaker 3: This one's an interesting one. When you add the intrigue
45:15
Speaker 3: of Jonestown and the People's Temple being part of the
45:18
Speaker 3: Mills' backstory, it's really this kind of a fanatical interesting
45:24
Speaker 3: case right where you say, Wow, this family was in
45:28
Speaker 3: one of the most tragic, horrific historical cults we've ever seen.
45:33
Speaker 3: They escaped it, and then as they're declaring that they're
45:36
Speaker 3: kind of done with this pursuit of being known as
45:40
Speaker 3: you know, defactors and survivors of the People's Temple, they say,
45:45
Speaker 3: we're done, we want to move on, we want a
45:47
Speaker 3: new life. They lose their life in a tragic execution
45:51
Speaker 3: of three of the four family members in that house. Again,
45:54
Speaker 3: my heart is it's torn because I understand why police
45:58
Speaker 3: would suspect Eddie, but I also don't see the sophistication
46:04
Speaker 3: and the ability to live a life that doesn't draw
46:08
Speaker 3: suspicion to him by people who know him best. So
46:11
Speaker 3: because of his family's support, and because of not just
46:15
Speaker 3: the support, but evidence that the aunt was called by
46:19
Speaker 3: a woman, that the ex boyfriend was came forward, and
46:24
Speaker 3: that I saw people actually leaving the house, here's where
46:27
Speaker 3: they were, here's what they were driving. Those kinds of
46:30
Speaker 3: things make it where there's no way you could do
46:33
Speaker 3: what the district attorney said and say, listen, we should
46:36
Speaker 3: have taken it to trial anyway. How that's how wrongful
46:39
Speaker 3: convictions occur, because beyond a reasonable doubt that can exist
46:44
Speaker 3: here you have light residual gun shot residue on his hands,
46:48
Speaker 3: and that the kids slept through this execution. He also
46:52
Speaker 3: could have been in the shower at the time. I'm
46:54
Speaker 3: leaning towards, for whatever reason, maybe known to the family
46:57
Speaker 3: or not, that these individuals came into the home, wanted something,
47:04
Speaker 3: and pushed the family into the master bedroom. Again, I
47:06
Speaker 3: don't typically see teenagers sitting with mom and dad on
47:10
Speaker 3: their bed in their bedroom. You know, maybe mom and
47:12
Speaker 3: daughter in the bedroom and dad on the couch. Maybe
47:15
Speaker 3: you know, dad and son in the bedroom looking at
47:18
Speaker 3: something and mom on the couch, But very rarely do Dad,
47:22
Speaker 3: me and the kids hang out in our bedroom. So
47:24
Speaker 3: I think they were forced into the bedroom looking for
47:27
Speaker 3: something of value. They didn't get what they want, or
47:29
Speaker 3: they were spooped or overwhelmed, and they shot the family
47:33
Speaker 3: and then they ran. They didn't have time to worry
47:36
Speaker 3: about Eddie. They didn't look for Eddie, they didn't hear Eddie,
47:39
Speaker 3: or they knew that he was preoccupied. So that's where
47:42
Speaker 3: I'm leaning, and at the end of the day, if
47:44
Speaker 3: that is true, the trauma and continual trauma that Eddie
47:48
Speaker 3: has gone through is horrific. He's already suffered abuse, he
47:52
Speaker 3: was part of the whole People's Temple as well with
47:54
Speaker 3: his family, and so he gets out of that, he
47:57
Speaker 3: loses his family, and then while he's growing his own family,
48:00
Speaker 3: it's arrested and is facing charges of executing his family.
48:03
Speaker 3: So it's a case that is very overwhelming emotionally when
48:07
Speaker 3: you think about what these individuals had already gone through.
48:10
Speaker 3: They'd lost their lives and then the trauma doesn't stop.
48:13
Speaker 3: So it would be fascinating to learn if there's information
48:17
Speaker 3: out there. It was quite a while ago, but you
48:19
Speaker 3: never know. It takes one phone call, it takes one
48:21
Speaker 3: piece of evidence coming out, and so I would be
48:25
Speaker 3: thrilled to see. Is there a connection of People's Temple.
48:28
Speaker 3: I leaned towards no, and honestly, it points away from
48:32
Speaker 3: Eddie because in this case, what kind of vindication would
48:36
Speaker 3: that be for him to say. For so many decades
48:39
Speaker 3: people have assumed it was me and it wasn't.
48:42
Speaker 1: I'm eighty percent leaning towards the theory that you just
48:45
Speaker 1: put forward, that it isn't leaned to the people's temple.
48:48
Speaker 1: It wasn't Eddie. It was random intruders or people who
48:51
Speaker 1: may have known them, but they were looking for something
48:53
Speaker 1: of value. There's a reason that they were all in
48:56
Speaker 1: one bedroom. I think that it's a fluke that Eddie
48:58
Speaker 1: was able to survive through it, and then it's unfortunate
49:02
Speaker 1: with the GSR that it somehow got on his hand.
49:05
Speaker 1: I just don't see this profile. Yeah, he had difficulties,
49:09
Speaker 1: but would he be this killer of his family Because
49:12
Speaker 1: we saw him move on, have a move to Japan,
49:15
Speaker 1: get married, have a child. It doesn't seem like he
49:18
Speaker 1: would have been all that disturbed and his family stood
49:20
Speaker 1: by his side. And I really do think that that
49:23
Speaker 1: speaks highly of him, and I think it speaks highly
49:26
Speaker 1: of his family as well, that they were so loyal
49:28
Speaker 1: to him in the face of so much judgment. But
49:31
Speaker 1: also it could have been more of a financial windfall
49:35
Speaker 1: for them if they turned on him, if they truly
49:38
Speaker 1: believed that he was capable of that, and they just didn't.
49:40
Speaker 1: They thought the investigator had tunnel vision. And I hate
49:44
Speaker 1: to say it, but it seems like that is a possibility.
49:47
Speaker 1: I mean, with the other case that he had and
49:50
Speaker 1: it didn't have the resolution that he hoped that it did.
49:52
Speaker 1: It seemed like he was throwing as much at the
49:54
Speaker 1: wall as he could and he was hoping something would stick.
49:57
Speaker 1: And I am compassionate for somebody putting in a lot
49:59
Speaker 1: of effort after they've retired and not getting the results
50:03
Speaker 1: that they want. But you can't try to throw everything
50:06
Speaker 1: at somebody who might be innocent without focusing on who
50:10
Speaker 1: else could have done it. I think it's just lazy
50:13
Speaker 1: and really easy to say Eddie's the guy because he's
50:16
Speaker 1: the one surviving family member, But the evidence is so
50:20
Speaker 1: weak that I just lean away from Eddie being responsible.
50:24
Speaker 2: I remember first learning about this case several years ago
50:26
Speaker 2: because I included it in an article I wrote for
50:29
Speaker 2: Lispers dot com, and after reading just the basic summary,
50:32
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, Eddie had to have done this. It
50:34
Speaker 2: just seems so illogical that he would be left alone
50:37
Speaker 2: in his bedroom while his entire family was killed and
50:39
Speaker 2: claimed that he didn't see or hear anything. But once
50:42
Speaker 2: I started researching this, when I covered it on the
50:44
Speaker 2: trail went cold about five years ago, it seemed less
50:47
Speaker 2: likely that Eddie was the perpetrator because it means he
50:50
Speaker 2: would have to do this dastardly crime at age seventeen,
50:53
Speaker 2: get rid of the murder weapon, leave no evidence behind
50:56
Speaker 2: besides small traces of gunshot residue in his hand, and
51:00
Speaker 2: then go on to cool his surviving half siblings and
51:03
Speaker 2: live a normal life for the next several decades and
51:06
Speaker 2: move to Japan, start a family, have children of his own,
51:09
Speaker 2: and then just commit no other crimes or cause no
51:12
Speaker 2: other trouble. So as implausible as a story may sound,
51:15
Speaker 2: it does seem more likely that the Mills family were
51:18
Speaker 2: killed by intruders who overlooked Eddie. But I really don't
51:21
Speaker 2: know what the actual motive could have been. I really
51:23
Speaker 2: don't believe it was anything to do with the people's temple.
51:26
Speaker 2: I think the whole hit squad was a myth, and
51:29
Speaker 2: the fact that this took place fifteen months after the
51:31
Speaker 2: Jonestown massacre makes me think that there's no real connection.
51:35
Speaker 2: So I think they were killed for other reasons, but
51:38
Speaker 2: I just don't know what it was if it had
51:40
Speaker 2: something to do with Dave Fiene, or if maybe it
51:43
Speaker 2: was a robbery gone wrong, maybe the intruders were looking
51:46
Speaker 2: for something inside the house. But I do think that
51:49
Speaker 2: there is credible evidence plenty to outside intruders, like the
51:52
Speaker 2: phone call that Linda received, and also the eyewitness sighting
51:56
Speaker 2: of the three men exiting the house and climbing into
51:58
Speaker 2: a van. So whoever it was, if there were multiple
52:02
Speaker 2: people involved, it sounds like they did an effective job
52:04
Speaker 2: at keeping their mouths shut and got very lucky that
52:07
Speaker 2: the police focused entirely on Eddie so that they could
52:10
Speaker 2: just slip under the radar. I mean, so much time
52:13
Speaker 2: has passed at Eddie is now in his early sixties.
52:16
Speaker 2: I hope he has lived a happy life. I don't
52:18
Speaker 2: know if he's still in Japan, but obviously, even before
52:21
Speaker 2: his family was killed, he had to undergo a lot
52:23
Speaker 2: of trauma growing up in the People's Temple and having
52:26
Speaker 2: to experience a lot of abuse living in a cult.
52:29
Speaker 2: So I hope he has lived in peace, and the
52:32
Speaker 2: fact that he has never lost the support of the
52:34
Speaker 2: rest of his family I think speaks volumes. But yeah,
52:37
Speaker 2: just a very weird case and an odd epilogue to
52:40
Speaker 2: one of the biggest tragedies of all time. But in
52:42
Speaker 2: the end, I do think that Jim Jones and the
52:44
Speaker 2: whole Jonestown massacre and the People's Temple were nothing more
52:48
Speaker 2: than a red herring