Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #33: Interview with Kerianne Wilson, Leader, Air Canada Accessibility Advisory Group

Transcript

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #33: Interview with Kerianne Wilson, Leader, Air Canada Accessibility Advisory Group · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA,
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invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
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Remarkable World Commentary here.
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Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights,
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perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I'm Donna Jordan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
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author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments.
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In November 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to
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make its websites accessible to every Canadian,
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not just as sighted ones.
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In July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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And most recently, on June 3rd, 2022, I was humbled by Her Late Majesty's
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Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or in a pottery studio.
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You'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from afterthought into everyday
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practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets
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lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest or changemaker,
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whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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I'd like to give a warm welcome to Kerianne Wilson of Air Canada.
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Kerianne is the main to-go of the Air Canada Accessibility Group sorry advisory group on
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disability issues. Hello, Kerianne.
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Kerianne Wilson: Hi, Donna. Thank you so much for having me.
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Donna J. Jodhan: It's my pleasure. And before we start, I just wanted to say that I met Kerianne in
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December of 2023, when she reached out to me with an invitation to join the Air Canada
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Disability. I'm always getting this in.
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I'm locking up with this one.
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The Air Canada Advisory Group on disability issues.
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Since then, I've had the privilege and pleasure of working with Kerri Anne and her
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team and other members of the group.
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So let's get started. Carry on.
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Kerianne Wilson: That sounds perfect, Donna.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Okay, so Air Canada was the first American airline to adopt the sunflower program in
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North America. Okay. It's the disability sunflower program.
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Kerianne Wilson: Yes, yes it is.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. And now it is in use at dozens of airports across North America and beyond.
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What extra comfort or confidence are travelers telling you about this simple
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symbol?
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Kerianne Wilson: Thank you so much for the question, Donna. It was a very interesting process to
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go about taking on the program.
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So just for those who don't know, it's a UK program started with the founder,
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whose name is Paul, and it's called the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower Program.
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Now, folks listening in Canada and in the US might not recognize the terminology as
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quickly as folks in the UK.
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The terminology hidden disabilities is quite common in the UK,
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whereas in North America it's less common.
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It tends to be non-visible or non apparent, right?
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But the idea behind the program is really, really simple.
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And I think the beauty is in that simplicity.
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So by its very nature, someone with a non-visible disability or a
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non apparent disability, it's not known it can't be seen.
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And I think that causes a lot of stress, particularly for parents of children with
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non-visible disabilities.
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We might think most predominantly of children with autism.
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But it's really not just autism.
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It's for all sorts of non-visible disabilities.
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And so the idea behind the lanyard is offering choice.
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We always come back to that idea.
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Me and the team at Air Canada.
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The idea really is to offer customers options in how to reduce the anxiety and stress of
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traveling. And so the lanyard is simply that it's a green lanyard with a yellow sunflower
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on it. And it's recognized by Air Canada employees all over Canada and the US and some
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international. And it's also recognized by all of our cabin crew.
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And the idea really behind the lanyard is that the customer is saying I have a
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non-visible, visible disability.
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I might need a little bit of extra patience, a little bit of extra time,
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maybe just a little bit of a different understanding of what the customer is travel
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experience is. And we've heard really wonderful feedback.
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In the first weeks that we launched the program,
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I had a report from a customer who I know quite well,
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very frequent traveler with us who has autism,
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and he said that he got a note from the cabin crew saying,
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we see that you're wearing the sunflower.
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We know what that means.
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Please let us know if we can give you any extra support.
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So that's the kind of story that we're hearing more and more.
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And it's frankly beautiful.
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We're really, really excited.
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We we were blown away by how positively it's been received by some of the non-visible
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disability communities. Now, again, I really have to stress completely
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optional. The last thing we would want is for customers to feel obliged,
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or feel forced or feel kind of put on the spot.
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But for those who do want to make their non-visible disability visible,
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this is an option.
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Donna J. Jodhan: So is it mainly for persons with invisible disabilities,
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would you say? Or how could it benefit me as someone who is vision impaired?
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Kerianne Wilson: So that's a really interesting question, Donna.
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So perhaps in your case, because if I may share with your listeners
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that you do use a cane it perhaps wouldn't be so useful for you,
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but for folks who maybe have some vision loss or maybe an unusual kind of vision loss
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that's less apparent. They don't use a cane, but they might have difficulty focusing.
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Or perhaps they're very, very nearsighted.
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It could be useful in that case, right?
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It could also just be maybe something a little bit more visible than a than a
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discreet, a discreet way of of showing that someone has vision loss.
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Donna J. Jodhan: So would you then, you know, like, look at this as a backup plan for
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myself. I mean, I always, you know, notify er Canada of of my needs and
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requirements, but could this be a backup thing in case anything happens and someone
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sees me in a bit of trouble?
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I'm not saying it would happen or.
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Kerianne Wilson: Yeah. No, I actually I think it could be.
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And if, if it was something that you wanted and it's certainly a symbol that Air Canada
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employees really do recognize quite readily.
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It's both discreet and colorful.
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And I know that we've talked about vision that you had in the past so that those colors
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are bright, but also not immediately saying, oh,
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look, here's someone who needs help, right?
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It's just kind of a symbol of, oh, perhaps this person might want to be
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asked to question Offer and support.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right. All right, so let's move on.
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For passengers who rely on wheelchairs, knowing where their mobility aids aid is at
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every moment is priceless.
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Okay. Could you walk listeners through the new in-app tracking feature that
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lets us follow a chair from check in to arrival?
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Kerianne Wilson: Absolutely. Would be my absolute pleasure.
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And this is an area where I really need to give credit to the full company,
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because this is something that was already in the works when I started in my role,
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and I was so excited to pick this up and really share with the community.
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So we absolutely understand as best we can.
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I'm not a wheelchair user myself, but the many customers I've spoken to who do
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use wheelchairs. They are never separated from their chair.
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It's it's as important as someone's limb.
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It's often described like that.
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And so one of the few moments where a customer no longer has possession control
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line of sight on their wheelchair is when their wheelchair has to go in the cargo hold.
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And so, recognizing that there's a new system,
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it's being rolled out across all of our Canada's network.
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I think it's fully rolled out in Canada and the US,
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and it's getting into the international stations now where basically there are five
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scanning points for any items that are taken out of the customer's control and then put
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below in the cargo hold.
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Now, of course, with baggage with suitcases, that first scan point starts at check in and
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then kind of continues throughout the airport journey with someone in their wheelchair for
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the most part. That customer will obviously want to stay in their wheelchair until they
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get to the door of the aircraft, and so that they would skip a few of the scan
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points, because, of course, their wheelchair hasn't gone underneath
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through the airport infrastructure.
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But basically once it is scanned at the door,
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it then is scanned onto the aircraft.
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And for someone who has the Air Canada app, which again,
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I must give a lot of credit to my colleagues.
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It's a beautiful, functional, informative app.
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You go into the app, you log in, you find your booking,
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and you're actually able to see, oh, there's my wheelchair and it's called
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mobility aid, very intentionally so that it's encompassing and inclusive of many different
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types of mobility aids.
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But you would see there it is.
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It's been scanned, it's on the aircraft.
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And so the idea there is really to give that absolutely necessary reassurance to customers
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that we have your mobility aid in our control.
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It is safely on board and it will be there when you arrive.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Is there or are there any other ways that this app can be used?
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You know, in addition to this type of service?
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Kerianne Wilson: Oh my goodness. Absolutely.
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The app is a wealth of information.
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So for folks who perhaps have hearing loss and cannot hear announcements to do with
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delays, cancellations the app has a lot of those notifications right there.
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And so they'll pop up and say your flight is delayed,
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perhaps. Hopefully it doesn't happen too often.
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In the event of a gate change, also, you would get a notification,
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which is something that a lot of folks would definitely want to have.
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The app also helps because it's written down.
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And so for anybody who has perhaps sensory processing needs to have noise canceling
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headphones on for the airport, the app is able to share that information.
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There's also information in the app on what food options are available on board.
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There's a seat map. There's all sorts of information about the actual aircraft itself.
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For aviation geeks who might be interested in the registration number,
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the type of aircraft. And also for folks who perhaps are looking for a slightly fancier
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trip and are hoping to upgrade, you have information available on where you
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are on the standby list, and you actually can see in real time when
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the standby list clears.
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So really a fully encompassing app for the for the travel journey and for the full
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travel experience.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I'll get this up benefit me as someone who is visually impaired.
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Kerianne Wilson: So a lot of the information that you might want to know about your flight is in the app.
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So rather than having to rely on a screen, perhaps that would say if there's a delay,
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again, something like that.
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If you you can have your boarding pass in the app.
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So, of course, having a paper boarding pass wouldn't be helpful for you,
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Donna, but the app can have your boarding pass there so you're able to use it
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independently. Also, let's say you're looking for you've checked a bag,
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and you need to pick it up upon arrival.
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The app will tell you which baggage carousel to go to,
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and so you'd be able to know that independently and then not be reliant on
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someone to to read a screen for you upon arrival in the baggage hall.
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A lot, a lot of useful information, and we're really looking to add more
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information. We'd love to add station specific information,
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for example. So how do you request curbside assistance?
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Say you're leaving out of Pearson or we're looking at what kind of information would be
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really helpful for somebody once they're on board.
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So let's say for in the in-flight entertainment system would be able to put
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details into the app saying, oh, you're flying one of our newer aircraft.
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Donna, we know that you have vision loss.
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This system on this aircraft is accessible.
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And what a wonderful way to enjoy the trip fully.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Would I be able to test this app without booking a trip?
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Kerianne Wilson: So we. There are certainly things that you can do.
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You can absolutely test the app without a booking.
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You'd be able to log in with your airline profile.
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You can look up a flight status.
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So I actually do this when my parents are flying.
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I open the app. I know the flight that they're flying on.
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I want to see how their flight went.
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I pop in their flight number and there we are.
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I can look at all the information related to their flight.
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So of course there are some features that you would need to have a flight for.
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But Donna, you'll be traveling soon to our next Accessibility Advisory Committee
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meeting. So we'll make sure that you use the app and test it out at that point for all
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those other features.
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Donna J. Jodhan: You're spying on your parents, aren't you?
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Kerianne Wilson: Just a little bit. Just a little bit.
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I just want to make sure that they're having a good trip, and I'll often text them and ask
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how their flight went.
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Once I know that they've landed.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Do you.
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Kerianne Wilson: Know.
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Donna J. Jodhan: If other airlines have a similar type of app,
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or is it Air Canada to start with, or who else is doing this?
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Is this.
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Kerianne Wilson: A lot? A lot of airlines have apps.
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Really excellent apps.
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I would say United's app has a lot of information in it.
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I've used British Airways app.
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I've used American Airlines app.
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So it is airline specific.
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And you'll see the really different approaches to that. So the fact that Air
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Canada has the full standby list and upgrade list in the app,
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that's very unusual. I've not seen many other carriers who do it that way.
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Now, that said, there there's a good way and a bad way.
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And there's just also different ways of doing things.
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And so the last time I flew on United, I was on standby for my flight,
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and the standby list was actually on a screen at the gate.
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So certainly different ways of sharing information.
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But again, the thing that I love about our app is that it's it's usable by so many
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different people with different disabilities.
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It's usable when you're not at the gate.
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It's usable. Again, folks with sensory processing,
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folks who have vision loss it really is quite the useful,
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handy tool. And I do think it is becoming more and more common for a lot of this
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information to be really at your fingertips in the form of an airline app.
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Donna J. Jodhan: You know, as you talk about some passengers really being very anxious.
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And where is my wheelchair?
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Where is my wheelchair?
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I have a funny story to share with you and our listeners in that the other day when I
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was flying to the UK on Air Canada, the nice hostess thought it would be helpful
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to take my cane and store it somewhere.
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And I got really anxious.
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I said, no, no, you can't take my cane away.
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I need to know where it is at all times.
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And she was very, very apologetic.
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And I said, you know, like that cane or my cane is like my security
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blanket, so I need to know where it is.
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She was very, very quick to agree and apologized up and down.
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And I said, no need to apologize, you know, so I can really understand like
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someone wanting to know where is my wheelchair.
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Kerianne Wilson: And I would say honestly Donna this is an area where we'd love to see further further
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development really increase that, that reassurance that we could give to
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customers. And so we're looking at other options that we're able to kind of get more
19:23
information for the customer and really reassure them for,
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for where and in what state mobility aids are in.
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It's really something that I know airlines take very seriously and still remains
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challenging in some cases, given the size of cargo doors,
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sometimes the size of mobility aids that are difficult to reduce in height.
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It's really something that remains very challenging for the aviation industry,
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but I'm really hopeful that this is going to change in the next few years.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right. So last November, Air Canada accelerated its 2023 2026
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accelerated Accessibility plan after some service shortfalls made headlines.
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Unfortunately, which quick wins have been have already been delivered and which big
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milestones are up next?
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Kerianne Wilson: So, you know, it's something that's really important to be honest about because it is
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true that we had a number of service failures that were really unfortunate and and very
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stressful for the customers involved.
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And they did make the news in Canada.
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And it was shortly after I had started in my portfolio.
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So it was really quite eye opening and also a real opportunity to gain visibility,
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make sure that we were working on the right things. And so the timing was quite
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interesting because of course, we had just published our first accessibility
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plan and came out in June.
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I started my role in September, and then it was really shortly after that.
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We had a couple of failures that made it into the news.
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And so some of the items that we accelerated were were already in our accessibility plan.
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In fact, almost everything was but we took a look,
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we took a hard look at what timelines we had set up,
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and we said, okay, no, let's let's move a little bit faster.
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So one of the ones that we're really, really proud of.
21:25
So listeners might not be terribly familiar with how people who are non ambulatory board
21:32
and aircraft. But currently the way that aircraft are designed and how wheelchairs are
21:38
designed and other mobility aids, basically most customers need to be manually
21:45
transferred onto the aircraft or assisted with with a number of devices.
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But there are some really specialized devices that are passenger lifts,
21:53
passenger hoists that are really, really helpful for some people with with
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varying disabilities and varying needs.
22:00
Perhaps a pain that makes a manual transfer difficult,
22:05
perhaps needing a little more core support.
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And so there's a vendor that sells these Eagle lifts.
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They're based in Australia, and they're really remarkable pieces of
22:16
equipment for folks who like them.
22:18
And again, if we come back to the idea of providing choice,
22:21
providing options for customers, that's really one of the founding principles
22:25
of what we're doing, me and my team at Air Canada.
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But one of the decisions that we made was we were going to commit to have more of these
22:32
passenger lifts, passenger hoists available.
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And so in the, in the in the year following that,
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we took possession of 27 lifts throughout Canada.
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And we're currently looking at how we get more lifts available so that we can have a
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really consistent product in Canada, which is where we control our infrastructure.
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We have our own staff providing transfer assistance.
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Now, where this gets really interesting is that it's not a standard outside of Canada or
23:01
Australia or New Zealand.
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Those are really the only countries where we see consistent use of these passenger lifts.
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But it might be something that is growing in the rest of,
23:12
in the rest of the world.
23:15
And we're seeing more manufacturers enter the market,
23:18
particularly as new aircraft and aircraft layouts come out.
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So we're really, really excited to be at the forefront of this.
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And we've created actually a special Service.
23:30
Request a specific special service request for customers who want to use the Eagle Lift.
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So if any of your listeners have ever questioned what an Eagle lift is ever
23:41
questioned, what does it look like?
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What is the experience?
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We actually added videos onto our website.
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So if you go to Air Canada Accessibility and then you pick the tile.
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There's a couple of different topics available.
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Airport assistance. You scroll down to the bottom and we've got some videos showing what
24:00
it's like to be transferred with with the lift.
24:04
And then if that is something that's interesting to you you just contact
24:08
Accessibility Services and they add that to your booking. So we're really, really excited
24:12
about that big, big change.
24:14
Another change that we made that we're in the process of completing the training is we
24:18
added some additional in-person, hands on really focused on the soft skills
24:26
related to accessibility services.
24:28
And this is something that we see throughout the company.
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And I think it's indicative just of where we are as a country.
24:37
We're not as well integrated as we would like.
24:39
People with disabilities. People without disabilities temporarily is something we say.
24:43
Everyone is just temporarily not disabled.
24:47
You know, I often hear as well that the disability minority group is one of the few
24:51
minority groups that you can join at any time.
24:54
Something that really, really strikes true for me because you know,
25:00
nothing is certain in life.
25:01
You just have no idea what's coming around the corner.
25:04
I met someone recently who had gone to work as a chef that day.
25:08
He had been a chef for a long time.
25:10
And during his shift, he lost his vision.
25:14
From one, one minute to the next.
25:16
So I'm digressing here a little bit, but the point is,
25:20
is that really communicating and teaching our employees,
25:27
how to have conversations, how to be comfortable,
25:32
how to welcome our customers with disabilities just the same as any other
25:36
customer, and really breaking down those perhaps fears and anxieties of perhaps using
25:42
the wrong language or saying the wrong thing,
25:44
or not having all the answers.
25:47
So that was a huge, huge achievement.
25:49
We're so pleased with how that training's been going.
25:52
We've gotten really good feedback.
25:54
We've worked extensively with our Accessibility Advisory Committee on this
25:58
training, as well as other folks from the disability community.
26:01
And then, of course, you you already asked me about the hidden Disability Sunflower
26:05
program, which was one of the other things that we accelerated very,
26:09
very happy with how that's been going.
26:11
And I will add just one more point on that, which is that following our adoption of the
26:15
program, we were contacted by many, many airports.
26:19
So a big difference, I think, seeing that Air Canada went forward with it.
26:24
Canadian airports, we've been seeing this spread go from the west of the country to the
26:28
east, and we're pretty excited about a few countries.
26:30
A few airports, I beg your pardon, that have just announced that they're joining
26:35
us momentarily.
26:38
Donna J. Jodhan: You know, it was an eye opener for me when I joined your committee to learn so much about
26:44
how people or, you know, passengers in wheelchairs,
26:49
the challenges they face and what they need to do in order to be comfortable and how,
26:54
you know, the cabin crews interact with them and the various agents.
26:59
It was an eye opener for me because as someone with a vision impairment,
27:04
we live in a sort of different world in that,
27:08
you know, it's our cane and us and, you know,
27:12
I, I respectfully say that for someone in a wheelchair,
27:17
I believe that the challenges are a lot more,
27:21
you know, inherent. And what are your thoughts on that?
27:26
Kerianne Wilson: It's a really interesting question, Donna, because I think none of us can truly
27:30
know what it's like, right, to live in someone else's shoes.
27:34
But I think the closest we can get is listening to the people with lived
27:38
experience. And so when I have been privileged enough to hear from our friends,
27:45
our committee members, our colleagues who use wheelchairs it really
27:51
is eye opening, just how inaccessible the world remains in many ways.
27:58
And so, you know, I didn't realize that until curb cuts in the sidewalk became common.
28:08
People didn't use wheeled suitcases because they couldn't get their wheeled suitcases up
28:13
onto the sidewalk. Right.
28:16
But but picture that from someone in a wheelchair.
28:18
You literally cannot get up on the sidewalk because nobody thought of you when the design
28:24
was done, when the sidewalk was built.
28:27
I think also of just the the heights of things.
28:30
Right. We truly wouldn't think about it.
28:34
I'm quite tall. I'm five foot ten.
28:36
I can reach really, really high up, I know.
28:39
Donna, you and I have have remarked on our height difference when we've been in person.
28:44
You're perhaps a little smaller than me.
28:47
But I think about that from the perspective of of someone using a wheelchair.
28:51
But then again, you know it just comes down to universal design.
28:55
And I think that really is the key here.
28:58
Right? Because the world is so inaccessible, there's a barrier,
29:04
perhaps more so for people with mobility aids or battery powered mobility aids because of
29:09
getting them in and out of vehicles and cars and,
29:12
and weight restrictions, etc..
29:14
But if we build with universal access in mind the barriers fall away.
29:22
Right? And I think that is really what we're,
29:24
we're going for. So we have a few guiding principles that mean the team are working on.
29:30
And one of them really is designing with accessibility in mind right from the very
29:35
start. It makes it so much simpler and easier,
29:39
and we can't even imagine the benefits to folks without disabilities with what we will
29:45
create. I often think of the information desk at the Vancouver Airport Authority.
29:51
I must give credit to that team.
29:53
It just looks like a beautiful information desk.
29:57
Really interesting, really artistic.
29:59
And what you realize once you look at it is it's arranged in a way that there are varying
30:06
height options for customers to go to the information desk.
30:10
It literally just looks like a beautiful wave,
30:13
but it is a fully accessible information desk,
30:16
no matter how tall or small somebody is, whether they're seated or standing.
30:20
Understanding, and that's really what I would love to see,
30:23
a space that just takes into account people's access needs right from the start.
30:29
And so we no longer would think, oh, someone who uses a wheelchair would have
30:32
a harder time getting around. No, they have just as easy as time as someone
30:36
walking, someone walking with a cane, somebody you know,
30:41
bringing a service dog like it.
30:43
Access for everybody.
30:46
Donna J. Jodhan: As someone who travels regularly to the UK.
30:51
I'm wondering, I'm putting you on the spot here.
30:54
But if you compared the Canadian airports or the the Air or Air Canada's services to what
31:04
goes on in the UK, how do you stack up against that?
31:09
Kerianne Wilson: You are putting me on the spot.
31:10
That's all right. That's all right.
31:12
No, I will take the question.
31:14
Absolutely. So I think there's some really big structural differences that are very,
31:19
very interesting. And I think there's both good and bad to every system.
31:23
So in Canada we are we as an airline are responsible for providing assistance in the
31:31
airport, but we don't control the infrastructure,
31:34
right? We don't control the built environment.
31:36
And so that's a really interesting split.
31:39
You have one party responsible for providing the assistance,
31:42
one party responsible for providing the built environment,
31:45
which dictates how the service is provided.
31:48
So we might have a little bit more control in some cases less control in other cases.
31:52
We have great working relationships with our airport authorities in Canada.
31:57
But but it is split that way.
31:59
And so of course, you're not going to end up with perfectly aligned priorities at all
32:04
times. But then again, if you look at the UK model it's the airport
32:10
authority that obviously owns the building and manages the infrastructure,
32:14
and then they contract out to a party that provides assistance.
32:20
And so while you have both items nominally under the control of the airport authority
32:27
you end up with a more arm's length relationship with the folks who are providing
32:33
the assistance. And what this means is that you kind of lose that human touch with the
32:38
customers, right? And so we do see this sometimes that customers will transit through
32:43
a European airport. It doesn't have to be one or the other one in particular.
32:49
And so in some cases, you know, folks are very friendly,
32:51
very wonderful, but in other cases they're not.
32:54
Perhaps the agents having a bad day, or perhaps it's just a really difficult
32:57
operational day. And in the eyes of the customer,
33:02
all of this is Air Canada, which is really, really far from reality.
33:07
And so that, for me, would be one of the disadvantages.
33:10
We really lose that opportunity to give excellent service to our customers.
33:14
Now, if I back up even further, I would say that the cities where we really
33:19
see excellent service, a greater understanding of disability and
33:25
what accessibility means, as well as really impressive accessibility
33:29
developments. There are the cities that have had the Paralympics recently,
33:34
and so I really have to use the example of London for this.
33:37
You know, the fact that all black cabs in London are wheelchair accessible.
33:42
That's got to be linked to the fact that the Paralympics occurred there so recently.
33:46
And I would say the same for Vancouver.
33:48
You know, these are cities that really invested in infrastructure,
33:52
invested in training, invested in technology.
33:55
Really impressive. You know, the Skytrain in Vancouver,
33:58
very accessible. When I contrast that to other cities in Canada that have older
34:04
transit systems, we have so far to go with what is accessible.
34:09
You know, setting aside the question of of what's wheelchair accessible or not,
34:13
I think of the announcements that are made.
34:15
I live in Montreal, as Donny, you know.
34:18
The announcements made over the public announcement system in Montreal.
34:21
I speak fluent French and fluent English.
34:24
I cannot understand the announcements, and there's no way to have them visually.
34:29
There's no way to have them kind of written out or directed to Bluetooth.
34:33
I mean, if you're really thinking about universal access and accessible design,
34:38
I think we're going to see a lot of innovation as we see where the next
34:41
Paralympics are, which are Milan or Cortina.
34:45
So we will see where that goes.
34:48
But I think London got a really, really big boost,
34:52
if you will, from the Paralympics.
34:56
Donna J. Jodhan: You know, I wonder when the Toronto area, when will the City of Toronto be hosting any
35:04
sort of Paralympics? You know, that would help them to be more aware.
35:09
I mean, I've seen a lot of improvement at the Toronto airport.
35:13
I've seen a lot of improvement with Air Canada agents.
35:17
I'm very pleased to see a lot of that, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
35:22
As you say, I wonder. Yeah, no, it's a good question.
35:28
Kerianne Wilson: It's a good question. I would say Toronto is our our our biggest hub and it's also the
35:34
biggest city in Canada.
35:36
And so I think you see really extraordinary development.
35:41
And you also see just some of the work that remains to be done because of the sheer size
35:46
of both the airport and the city.
35:49
But I really have to give a lot of credit to the GTA for.
35:52
So that's the Greater Toronto Airports Authority. They have a really,
35:55
really interesting plan going forward with some of the renovations.
35:59
They have some really cool innovations, and they've been a very,
36:02
very good partner to us as we're getting into our third year of of working more closely
36:07
together on accessibility with the creation of my position.
36:11
And also my counterpart, Cathy Saliba, who I know you know well.
36:14
Donna? Yes. So. So this is a beautiful thing about Canada being both an enormous country
36:20
and a very small country.
36:21
When you think about it.
36:24
And the accessibility and the disability space in Canada also is still quite small.
36:28
And so I think we're at a point where there's going to be a shift.
36:33
I can feel that we're on the cusp of a shift now.
36:36
The built environment is always going to be the slowest to move,
36:39
right? Because it's it's faster to fix technology than it is to perhaps install more
36:45
elevators or change the layout.
36:48
Like these are major, major changes that that can take years,
36:51
if not decades, right?
36:53
But as we continue to work to find technology solutions share awareness,
37:00
I truly hope that we're on the cusp of seeing something really change from a cultural
37:04
perspective. I know you you had the privilege that I had of having Stephanie considered the
37:10
chief accessibility Officer of Canada at our Accessibility Advisory Committee meeting in
37:14
April of this year. But I think with the creation of her role,
37:19
I think she's really going to help be a voice for permanent and and profound change within
37:29
the Canadian cultural landscape, which is what we need as a country.
37:34
And I think that will really help the work along to make travel more accessible,
37:38
but also everything else, right?
37:40
Daily transit, restaurant access, employment getting around the city.
37:47
I mean, really these are these are major, major things that I think this is a focus
37:51
that we need to have in in parallel for sure,
37:54
to the work to of making air travel more accessible.
37:59
Donna J. Jodhan: So just drifting a wee bit out of our questions here.
38:03
We are still waiting for the appointment of a minister for disability issues,
38:10
Do you think this is going to affect our work in any way,
38:15
shape or form?
38:18
Kerianne Wilson: So that is an interesting question, Donna.
38:20
And I would say that with the very robust legislative and regulatory framework that we
38:27
have in Canada. Yeah, I don't I don't worry about that.
38:32
Really with the backbone and this is coming from someone I call myself a reformed lawyer,
38:36
as you know. So I've been a lawyer for a long time with the Quebec,
38:41
which is so the Bar Association of Quebec.
38:44
And I think that Canada has one of the most interesting and encouraging almost
38:54
is not quite the right word, but really really interesting and a system
39:00
with a lot of potential.
39:02
And it also has a lot of weight behind it.
39:06
So the fact that the Accessible Canada Act is in place.
39:10
The fact that there's both the accessible transportation persons,
39:14
sorry, accessible transportation for persons with disabilities regulations.
39:18
So that's specific for transportation.
39:20
The acronym is at PDR.
39:22
But then on top of it there's the Accessible Transportation Planning and Reporting
39:26
regulations, ATP, RR. And it's based on those regulations that many,
39:33
many, many major companies, every company that is federally regulated in
39:39
Canada of a certain size, and then also transportation service
39:43
providers. So that's major airports.
39:46
It's airlines crossing provincial borders for trains and ferries for buses.
39:52
I mean, it's really, really far reaching.
39:55
You've got telecom, you've got banking, you've got all government agencies.
39:59
We all are required and and privileged genuinely to prepare a public accessibility
40:08
plan and none of that is going away.
40:11
So the question of whether there's going to be a minister for disability or not,
40:17
that for me, that is actually a very separate question and one that I wouldn't want to get
40:22
into because it's really not my area.
40:23
What my area is, is how do we make air travel more accessible and how do we make employment
40:30
more accessible? And so the the framework that I am operating in that we are operating
40:35
in very robust, not at risk and frankly, very effective so far from what I can see.
40:44
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. So you created an accessibility advisory committee that brings real travelers
40:54
with disabilities to the table.
40:58
What's one improvement that came directly from the committee's feedback?
41:06
Kerianne Wilson: So you're putting me on the spot here because I have some that I want to talk about,
41:13
but I cannot yet. So what I would say is I'll share one where you had very key input,
41:21
and I'll share one that you consulted on.
41:25
But the idea came from outside of the community,
41:27
and I think that's actually really important to share because as it currently is,
41:33
our community is still quite small, still quite new.
41:36
We did have a fifth member who has since left us for very illustrious grounds.
41:41
Screen Reader: And, down arrow, really.
41:44
Kerianne Wilson: Important to us that we keep consulting broadly.
41:48
Right, because we have our trusted committee members,
41:51
which are very, very valuable members giving good feedback coming in regularly to meet
41:59
folks internal and external.
42:01
But of course, they don't represent everyone's lived experience.
42:05
That's just not possible.
42:07
And so a big part of our engagement strategy,
42:11
our consultation strategy, is making sure that we have the right people
42:14
at the table to give us that feedback, to guide us,
42:17
to get us back on the rails, if ever were off to give us ideas.
42:22
And so with that in mind, here are the two things I want to talk about.
42:25
I mentioned already that the new training programs that we had put in place and are
42:30
currently completing the rollout of that really focuses on the softer skills,
42:36
the comfort respectful communication.
42:41
So those are programs that we consulted extensively with the Accessibility Advisory
42:45
Committee on to make sure that it was the right approach,
42:49
that the themes made sense, that we were going to get the results that we
42:53
wanted. And so that has been really, really exciting.
42:55
And that's an area where we continue to partner very closely with the committee as we
43:00
look at rolling out new and other programs.
43:03
Very, very pleased about that.
43:06
One of the initiatives that has launched with the help of the advisory committee is a
43:13
suggestion that, like I said, came from outside of the community. But we
43:17
have a very, very cool session that we do every January with the senior leaders at
43:23
Canada. And a year and a half ago, we had someone come in.
43:28
Her name was Michelle Mahoney.
43:30
And she is the accessibility officer at University of King's College in Halifax.
43:37
She also has been associated with Easter Seals for a very,
43:41
very long time. And so she came in to speak to us about her experiences in both
43:46
capacities. She talked about how much she loves traveling,
43:50
and then she just happened to mention, you know,
43:52
wouldn't it be great if there were straws on board so that I could drink my drink?
43:57
Because of the way that Michelle's disability has manifested,
44:00
she has trouble holding a glass without a straw.
44:04
All right. And so out of that was born a beautiful idea.
44:07
We thought, well, let's do it.
44:09
Let's do it. And so one of our committee members,
44:12
our beloved Paul Rogers, was involved in the testing of the straws.
44:17
And we also actually took the opportunity to test really broadly within our our internal
44:23
accessibility community as well at Air Canada.
44:26
And a lot of our employees and our fellow colleagues have come forward since our group
44:30
was created people who have known for years, frankly,
44:34
and they said, carry on. Like, you probably don't know this,
44:37
but, you know, my daughter has a disability or my husband has a disability.
44:41
I found out last week that one of my colleagues who I've known for almost ten
44:44
years her husband, has profound hearing loss.
44:48
He uses cochlear implants.
44:49
I had no idea. You know what?
44:50
That's the kind of discussion that is happening.
44:53
It's allowing us to really build our internal community and get the word out that
44:58
accessibility is really for everybody.
45:00
So in a roundabout way the committee has really helped us with these two initiatives.
45:08
As well as other folks within the disability community that we consult with.
45:12
Donna J. Jodhan: We're planning to increase the number of committee members.
45:16
Or are you allowed to tell me?
45:19
Kerianne Wilson: Well, I'm telling the whole world now.
45:21
So we we intentionally started small.
45:24
And Donna, when you and I first spoke in December of 2023,
45:26
I explained this that we were brand new.
45:30
One of the major commitments that I had made as part of the accessibility plan was that we
45:35
would set up an advisory committee, as well as continuing to partner with other
45:39
organizations and consulting groups, and really make sure that that lived
45:42
experience is front and center.
45:44
And as we've continued to work together we're seeing more and more just how valuable the
45:49
committee is and also where the gaps are perhaps in,
45:54
in that lived experience.
45:55
And so we know that there are communities that need representation at the table and
45:59
that that really is what we're looking for. And we're also, frankly, looking to make sure
46:03
that our committee represents Canada as a whole,
46:06
which is very diverse.
46:07
Right. So making sure that we have a good range of of other experiences and minority
46:14
groups and, and making sure that we're really representing Canadians with disabilities
46:20
accurately, fairly, and bringing that lived experience to the table,
46:23
because certainly someone who's grown up, perhaps affluent in an urban centre as a
46:29
person with a disability is going to have a very different experience from growing up,
46:32
perhaps less affluent in, in the country or perhaps in a different
46:38
province. These are experiences that really, really matter to us.
46:42
And so, yes, we're looking, we're looking, we're considering.
46:45
That's all I can say right now to you and to the whole listening community.
46:50
But it is something that we are committed to making sure that we are involving people who
46:56
have the lived experience to make sure that we are always improving and building
47:00
accessibility and right from the start.
47:03
Donna J. Jodhan: On a personal level, I am really impressed with this committee in that you air Canada is
47:09
listening on. Air Canada is really consulting with us.
47:13
Like, you know, like it's a hand in hand team.
47:17
It's not just Air Canada preaching to the choir,
47:23
you know, like this is what impresses me with with this committee.
47:26
And I'm just pleased to be to be part of it.
47:28
Thank you very much.
47:30
Kerianne Wilson: Very kind of you to say, Donna.
47:31
I mean, it's I think what's been really, really exciting for us particularly is having
47:38
having you folks available and interested in in projects as they come up and and really
47:44
giving that feedback, but then also being able to then take take
47:48
those experiences and share them broadly.
47:50
You know, when you tell me a story of something that happened to you, I then pick
47:55
that story up and I say, I know someone who.
47:58
This was her experience and this is what she would have wanted.
48:01
And it makes it so much more impactful than if I,
48:05
as carry on, am saying, well, you know, the vision loss or blind
48:09
community says this thing.
48:11
No, no, no, it's I know Donna who said this thing and it really helps that bring it home.
48:16
I mean, you know, in the in the ideal world, we would have way more employees with a whole
48:22
range of disabilities who wanted to talk about it.
48:25
Right. And I think that's a real key point to bring up.
48:28
We know and you know, that Stats Canada came out with stats last
48:31
year saying that 27% of Canadians self-identify as having a disability.
48:36
So that's a remarkable stat, right?
48:39
So that's also that's people who are willing to self-identify.
48:43
Some people are not for many, many good reasons,
48:46
but at a minimum 27%. And then you look around and you like think through your
48:52
circle, your family, your colleagues, It means that there are loads of folks who
48:58
are not comfortable for whatever reason, right?
49:00
They've been burned in the past and they think it's their own business.
49:04
Perhaps they're uncomfortable. In some cases,
49:06
it might be a new disability that people are not perhaps at peace with or really
49:10
comfortable with. Or as I mentioned earlier, or perhaps they're they're in the process of
49:17
developing a disability and it's just not quite there yet.
49:21
But this is something that, you know, until there comes a time when
49:26
everyone around you is comfortable talking about disability.
49:30
I am often the advocate, and I bring I bring those stories to life by
49:34
sharing it with people.
49:37
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, I think a lot of people are still uncomfortable talking about it.
49:40
You know, like my brother often says to me, you know,
49:43
like he's sitting beside me and he sees people that are looking at us,
49:50
you know, in a conversation.
49:52
And there's they're staring at me and he's saying,
49:55
hey. Come over and say hello.
49:59
Kerianne Wilson: You know what? I was actually talking to my team a couple days ago saying that you know
50:05
whenever I see someone driving a really cool power chair or a very nifty kind of different
50:12
mobility aid, I just can't take my eyes off it because it's,
50:16
it's magical. And I think I'm going to have to start going over and saying hi,
50:20
because otherwise people will think I'm staring at them when really I'm just like,
50:24
I'm mesmerized. You know, I saw someone recently with one of those
50:27
really cool attachments that basically turns what looks like a manual wheelchair into what
50:32
looks like a tricycle, like a power tricycle.
50:35
They're so cool. But yeah, I think I'm going to have to start going over
50:39
and saying, hi, I'm Karen, I love your wheelchair.
50:41
Can you tell me about it?
50:44
Donna J. Jodhan: Oh my goodness.
50:45
Kerianne Wilson: I know, I know.
50:47
Donna J. Jodhan: But you know, I saw this quote recently from a mom who said to her kid,
50:54
stop staring at that person because they look different.
50:59
And that really caught me.
51:01
And I think this is why a lot of people stare,
51:06
because someone is looking different in some way,
51:10
shape or form. Right.
51:12
Kerianne Wilson: Well so I have to tell a very very.
51:15
Cute story and it's going to feature one of my team members Rob who you know.
51:19
Well yes. And it's also going to feature Claire actually who you also know.
51:23
Well. So now the full team has been named on the podcast.
51:27
But the three of us were present at a beautiful event a couple weeks back called No
51:33
Limits, and it's a dance competition for breakdancing competition in Montreal.
51:38
Where there were breakers from all over the world who came in and they did workshops on
51:43
dancing with the disability given by a number of folks that the whole event was hosted by
51:49
abilities, which was led by Luca.
51:52
Petrelli. And then the end battle.
51:56
The dancers dance with a variety of mobility aids.
51:59
They basically did like a spinning wheel that landed on the mobility aid.
52:03
And then the dancers danced.
52:04
So all this to say, really, really inclusive,
52:08
amazing dance opportunity.
52:10
And Rob came in with his wife and their three kids.
52:13
And the kids are very young.
52:15
His daughter is five and his twin sons are three.
52:19
And the daughter in particular, like very, very bright,
52:22
very engaged, very curious.
52:24
And she's never been in a room before with so many people with disabilities.
52:28
Visible disabilities. Okay.
52:30
And so she was asking her mom and pointing like,
52:33
what's that? What's that?
52:34
Why is that person in a wheelchair?
52:37
And Rob's wife initially was was feeling quite badly about it.
52:42
But she really got into it, and so did Rob's daughter,
52:44
where basically it's like, no, there's nothing shameful about asking
52:47
these questions. You know, it might feel embarrassing as an adult,
52:51
but this actually teaches children to be curious and to be open and be accepting like
52:56
it's okay. Like, why don't you go over and ask like,
52:58
hi, can I look at your chair?
53:00
You know what is your crutch for?
53:03
Like, there's an innocence to the questions.
53:06
Yes. I think is really beautiful.
53:07
And when you stifle that innocence, when you shut down that curiosity,
53:12
you turn disability from something normal and perhaps a little bit unusual to something
53:18
shameful and something hidden and something that you can't talk about.
53:22
And I would love to see that change.
53:26
Donna J. Jodhan: I know we're starting to run out of time, but I would like to ask you this question.
53:30
Please go ahead. As a vision impaired passenger,
53:35
I can now enjoy being able to read those safety cards in Braille.
53:41
Enjoy on board entertainment.
53:44
But I wanted to know more about the iPad translation.
53:50
Kerianne Wilson: So so I've had translation actually we we no longer have the iPads on board,
53:56
but it is something that I would love to explore as we go forward in the app.
54:02
So the ability to have any communications go through the app.
54:07
I'd also love to see a feature.
54:09
This is something that the hearing loss community has been asking for,
54:13
understandably, and I cannot wait for the day that this is available,
54:16
but to have announcements that are transcribed on the screen or on the app so
54:22
that someone can see them and this I think would also be helpful,
54:27
for example, if there's an announcement that that's garbled you know,
54:31
sometimes it comes through and folks with hearing can still not hear it.
54:35
Right. So I would love for announcements like that to be transcribed and then also perhaps
54:40
be able to be repeated for someone like yourself who can't see the announcement,
54:45
some, some person like myself perhaps, who had headphones on,
54:48
noise cancelling headphones. And so I didn't hear the announcement.
54:51
There's a lot I think is going to happen with in-flight entertainment for for flights that
54:57
do have the seatback, but also, I think a lot that's going to
55:00
happen with smartphones as more and more aircraft have connectivity,
55:07
so you don't even need to sign up for Wi-Fi, right?
55:10
You can actually sign in just to get updates from the Ife system on some airlines.
55:18
And I think the opportunity to really elevate communication onboard that,
55:23
that is going to be the next thing.
55:26
I'm very, very lucky to have the opportunity to speak with manufacturers.
55:31
Boeing and Airbus have both been making really, really big strides towards more
55:35
inclusive design. And for a long time, I think the focus in aviation,
55:40
but also perhaps more widely, is on access needs for people in wheelchairs
55:44
or people who use mobility aids.
55:46
And I think the next focus is really going to be on communication.
55:50
For a long time, there's been major, major barriers for folks with vision loss and
55:53
hearing loss. And I think that's really the next wave on board.
55:58
Donna J. Jodhan: But would this leave the technically shy behind though in any way?
56:03
Kerianne Wilson: So it is a risk. And I think you're always going to have to again,
56:08
we come back to that idea of options, right.
56:10
So I think where where this is really going to help is the folks who have devices,
56:15
who are tech savvy. This gives them that independent access.
56:20
And then you will always likely need to supplement with crew who are ready to
56:25
explain. Perhaps someone doesn't want to use a smartphone to access a menu.
56:29
They do want someone to walk them through the menu like with their voice.
56:35
And these are the things that we really have to build in, right? Not everyone's going to
56:38
have a device. Not everyone is going to be comfortable navigating it.
56:42
But if we're able to provide choice and options.
56:45
We make the experience better for everybody.
56:48
Donna J. Jodhan: So with precious few minutes left, carry on.
56:51
If you could dream, dream for me.
56:54
Tell me, what do you dream of for a perfect world of accessibility.
57:02
Kerianne Wilson: Oh my goodness, perfect world of accessibility.
57:05
Like anything that I want.
57:07
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. What do you want?
57:09
Kerianne Wilson: I what I want genuinely is.
57:13
And it's going to sound, it's going to sound interesting because it's
57:15
not my area directly, but I work so closely with our team at Air
57:19
Canada. I would love to narrow, if not eliminate,
57:25
the employment gap. I think there is such wasted talent that we have.
57:32
We are not seeing, you know, I know so many people with disabilities who
57:37
are underemployed or are have been unemployed at times in the past.
57:43
And I think my experience of working with colleagues with disabilities,
57:49
it's, it's eye opening for so many reasons.
57:52
Right? Like the, the, the experience of walking through a hallway
57:55
with someone with vision loss, you just experience it differently.
58:01
And one thing that I've really, really seen is that people with disabilities
58:04
are so creative. You know, I have to talk about someone that I've met in
58:10
Vancouver who has a really, really interesting disability who was born
58:15
that way. And I've just seen the things that he can do.
58:20
And I, I'm mesmerized.
58:21
And he just looked at me. He's like, but this is this is this is my life. Like, of
58:24
course I'm able to do this. Like, what would I do otherwise? I'm like, yeah,
58:27
that's a really, really good point. But it just really opens your mind to different ways
58:31
of doing things better ways of doing things innovative.
58:35
Different. Creative. Productive.
58:39
Yeah, that would be my number one.
58:41
Number one vision of an accessible world.
58:44
It's where people with disabilities are able to be employed just like anybody else,
58:48
and it would make the world a really different place.
58:52
Donna J. Jodhan: Ariane, I'd like to thank you for having joined our interview today.
58:56
It has been a privilege and a pleasure to have you,
58:59
and I think you've really shared a lot of great news with us,
59:05
a lot of insights with us.
59:06
I want to thank you. And you know, take care.
59:11
Kerianne Wilson: Thank you. Thank you so much, Donna. Really, really, really pleased to have
59:14
been here. And I can't wait to have our accessibility advisory committee.
59:18
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, we'll be there tomorrow.
59:20
Kerianne Wilson: Thank you very much, Donna.
59:22
Donna J. Jodhan: Thanks, Kerianne. Take care.
59:24
Bye bye.
59:28
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna.
59:32
Hand at gmail.com. Until next time.