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TikTok, Amazon Ads, or Email? Where Self-Published Authors Should Really Focus · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  Hi,
• 0:00
  everyone,
• 0:01
  and welcome to another episode of the Substack Writer's Salon.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we have Renee Povada with us.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: And Renee,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: she helps successful entrepreneurs build immortal authority through their
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: self-published books.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, welcome, Renee.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: So what is immortal authority?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious to see how I can build immortal authority.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha, thank you so much.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen you, you know, be awesome on Substack and get around.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I love following your content.
• 0:39
  And I think we connected on some of your recent posts on how
• 0:43
  life is like an open
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  SPEAKER_00: world game,
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  SPEAKER_00: which I absolutely agree with.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, Immortal Authority.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean...
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is the next level for
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  A lot of entrepreneurs and business owners who have been in the
• 1:04
  game for some time.
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  SPEAKER_00: They've mastered a lot of skills.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they've been making content.
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  SPEAKER_00: They've made a lot of great money online.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're ready for that next level of impact.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're ready for that next level of being known for their wisdom and
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Tom.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know Tom.
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  Hey, Tom.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, yeah, that's really what we're doing here.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was working with my client Valerie just the past week and she,
• 1:42
  Valerie has been in the game for years now and we have come up
• 1:46
  with a book launch
• 1:47
  strategy and a podcast episode strategy for her to weave in her
• 1:53
  spiritual journey
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  SPEAKER_00: and how her spiritual journey relates to her business and
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's all about,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: how we launch books using your inner wisdom and proven methods as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: over time,
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  SPEAKER_00: create a flywheel of book sales and momentum and authority that hopefully
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  SPEAKER_00: compounds.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:16
  So basically,
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  just to put it in layman terms,
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  since I'm old,
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  is that you help
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  SPEAKER_03: People sell their self-published books, correct?
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  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
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  SPEAKER_03: Why self-published books?
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  SPEAKER_03: Why not all books?
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  SPEAKER_03: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good question.
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  SPEAKER_00: For one, because that's the experience I've been in.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've never published books through a traditional publisher.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've only ever done it through self-publishing.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I started doing this from a course that I bought from a YouTube ad.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  sell books online and make money online and retire to Bali with
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  your laptop.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, yes, I want that.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay, perfect.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Are you in Bali now?
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  SPEAKER_00: Not constantly,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I did all those things and it actually wasn't quite,
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  SPEAKER_00: it wasn't ever,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
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  SPEAKER_00: this is okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want more from life after I,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: spend time on the,
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  SPEAKER_00: anyway,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that's kind of the whole thing,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what the spiritual journey is.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like you put this goalpost out there and you're like, achieve it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then your soul wants something deeper, something more from life.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think a lot of,
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  A lot of entrepreneurs who are really good at making things
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  happen is kind of what
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  SPEAKER_00: they experience.
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  But yeah,
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  so I started my journey in self-publishing and learned the
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  ropes of self-publishing.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so got good enough, I suppose, at self-publishing.
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  But I've also become kind of a proponent of self-publishing
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  because I love...
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  I just love the kind of like tenacious,
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  like scrappiness related to self-publishing.
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  Like I think of like Taylor Swift and how she doesn't need
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  anybody to be successful.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like she's just successful on her own now.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got good enough at marketing.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got good enough at branding.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got great at
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  sales and marketing and just being a brand and i'm like yeah
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  like i want to work
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  with people who know that they're capable of being their own
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  person without some
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  person coming in and saying here like we'll help you but you
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  just have to sign away
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  all your rights and you know all your money and you know and
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  we'll help you but and
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  SPEAKER_00: then they help you
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  And then it turns out they really don't help you in the way
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  that you thought that they would.
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  But yeah,
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  it's like I love helping people who are just scrappy and want
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  to figure it out.
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  And those are usually actually some of the most successful
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  authors that I've seen.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like Robert Kiyosaki was originally a self-published author.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was, yeah, he was like, I gotta figure this out.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna roll up my sleeves and figure it out.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's what he did.
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  SPEAKER_00: And even after he got picked up by a publisher, he's still out there.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like that, it's more of mentality more than anything else.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's do this exercise.
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  SPEAKER_03: I'm a self-published author.
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  SPEAKER_03: I publish two books and I have one coming soon.
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  SPEAKER_03: And it's all self-publishing.
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  SPEAKER_03: I actually even publish under my own imprint.
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  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking of accepting others as well.
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  SPEAKER_03: So that's another project.
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  SPEAKER_03: Maybe for 2026.
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  SPEAKER_03: So the exercise, I come to you, Renee.
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  SPEAKER_03: I have these books.
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  SPEAKER_03: They're saying, okay, I have a big audience.
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  SPEAKER_03: How can you help me?
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  What what what are the biggest things that I am doing that I am
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  not doing?
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  SPEAKER_03: Right.
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  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, I have a newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_03: I have a YouTube channel and I post about books.
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  SPEAKER_03: I have my books in my I have a podcast.
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  I have like,
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  you know,
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  but there's I mean,
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  you know,
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  there's a book here,
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  a book there.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's nothing great.
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  SPEAKER_03: How what would you tell me?
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  SPEAKER_00: Um, Natasha, Natasha, Natasha.
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  I would,
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  I could not tell you exactly what is going on until we really
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  dive in.
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  But this is a common thing that I see a lot of the time with a
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  lot of prospects.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: They publish a book and then, so for example, like my client, Amy.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you know Amy.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Amy Sudo.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
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  SPEAKER_00: So she, yeah, she's like the queen.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's amazing at content marketing.
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  SPEAKER_00: She's got the TikTok audience, Instagram.
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  SPEAKER_00: She's got all the things.
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  And so for her first book,
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  she published this awesome book,
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  Six Figure Freelance Writer.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  And she had built up a TikTok audience of like 45,000 people
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  who want to be freelance writers.
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  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, perfect.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is the exact audience that...
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  SPEAKER_00: would be perfect for this book.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so she wrote the book.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so she then says, Hey, TikTok audience, go buy my book.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I, I don't think it quite did as well as she wanted it to.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that seems to be like a common theme.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you have all these,
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  SPEAKER_00: you have all this content,
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  SPEAKER_00: you have the audience and then send them to the Amazon page.
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  SPEAKER_00: But the Amazon page has like 10 reviews and,
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  um there's no momentum um people are like what is this and it's
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  kind of like when
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  you like kind of set up shop like a farmer's market and you
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  have this really brand
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  new like lotion and there's no one outside your booth there no
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  one's trying it
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  people are a little scared to try the lotion and definitely not
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  really ready to buy
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  SPEAKER_00: the lotion just yet
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  So what we need to do is call all of our cousins and ask them
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  to come and try the lotion.
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  SPEAKER_00: You are 100% right, Natasha.
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  SPEAKER_00: We need to get all of our people.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is exactly what Beyonce did.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  SPEAKER_00: When Beyonce launched her Sacred Hair Care line in April,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I got the Ulta catalog,
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  SPEAKER_00: and it was like the first time I'd ever seen it.
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  SPEAKER_00: It already had 5,000 five-star reviews.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: How?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because she rallied.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got all the cousins.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got all the people.
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  SPEAKER_00: She got everybody to say to pre-buy the Sacred Hair Care line.
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  SPEAKER_00: to try it out, to test it, to give her feedback.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is all happening in like the pre-launch of her haircare line.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  And all that feedback,
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  she then gets,
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  she like primes the pump,
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  so to speak.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're now like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Beyonce,
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  SPEAKER_00: we love this haircare line and we cannot wait to tell everybody about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, right, go to Ulta.com, leave your review.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so when it finally launches on Ulta,
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  there's like 5,000 five-star reviews ready to then share with
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  the millions of Ulta
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  SPEAKER_00: customers who now want to check out Beyonce's haircare line.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly the same thing we're doing with Amy's book,
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  SPEAKER_00: We are now using her Substack audience to sell pre-orders,
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  SPEAKER_00: to give away advanced reader copies,
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  SPEAKER_00: so that when her book goes live in January,
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  SPEAKER_00: they are ready to buy the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: download the book,
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  SPEAKER_00: leave a review,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then tell everyone about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like a landmine.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, like one landmine goes off.
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  And then it triggers all the other landmines and then more and
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  more and more and more.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden you have an explosion of network effects,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is how James Clear became so famous so fast.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're creating this like domino effect really fast.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_03: So in case of Amy, where do you think her audience are?
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  SPEAKER_03: On Substack or on TikTok?
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So she has a built in audience on Substack for sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: And her TikTok audience is also is is fair game, too.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's it's nurturing these people and letting them know,
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  SPEAKER_00: hey,
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  SPEAKER_00: that this book is it's not live yet,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you get to get a sneak peek.
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  SPEAKER_00: on this new thing that's coming out.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Beyonce's hair care line isn't out yet,
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  but would you like to be a part of it before it goes live to
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  the general public?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because of that exclusivity, people love exclusivity.
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  SPEAKER_00: People love new exclusivity.
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  SPEAKER_00: Using these elements of human psychology,
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  SPEAKER_00: we are able to kind of prompt people and incentivize people to be like,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: I would love to be part of this new exclusive special club.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what Amy's doing.
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  She's using her Substack audience to find advanced readers who
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  want to be part of
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  SPEAKER_00: her advanced reader team before her book goes live in January.
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  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to talk about...
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  SPEAKER_03: where books are currently selling.
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  SPEAKER_03: Everyone is saying TikTok, TikTok.
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  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not sure if you agree with that,
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  SPEAKER_03: and if it's all for a book or for a certain genre,
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  SPEAKER_03: like romantic or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_03: And the thing that I've heard, what's his name?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: This big marketer guy something, or I forgot his name.
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  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, he's saying that...
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: use TikTok live shopping to sell your books.
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  SPEAKER_03: So I tried it, and I'm a boomer.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I go, and I didn't know what I was doing.
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  SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to use TikTok.
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  SPEAKER_03: My kids call me a boomer all the time.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: But anyways, so...
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  SPEAKER_03: I go on the TikTok live shop and I'm just trying to see how I sell it.
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  SPEAKER_03: So I read from the book and I said,
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  I'm going to give away a book for anyone who comment or
• 12:21
  whatever and follow.
• 12:23
  I didn't get much traction and I was like,
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  okay,
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  this,
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  I just,
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  I don't have time for this.
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  SPEAKER_03: And I left.
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  SPEAKER_03: So, um,
• 12:30
  Where are we when it comes to TikTok live shopping or selling
• 12:35
  books on TikTok?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: I actually sold one book on the TikTok shop, which was... That's great.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: I just took the book.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: I took my book.
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  SPEAKER_03: I read from it.
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  SPEAKER_03: And then I created a shop.
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  uh using my llc and i posted put my books there and it was a
• 12:51
  shoppable video and
• 12:53
  one person's like oh i'm gonna buy it and she bought it so that
• 12:56
  was um yeah so i
• 12:59
  want to hear your opinion about is tiktok the place to sell
• 13:05
  shops is it overrated
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  SPEAKER_03: what do you think
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  SPEAKER_00: I have never sold anything on TikTok shop.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I actually couldn't tell you.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I've just heard great things.
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  So the course that I learned,
• 13:22
  all the strategies I teach is called publishing.com.
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  SPEAKER_00: They now teach TikTok shop to all of their nonfiction students.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a, yeah, it's another skill to add to your tool belt.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was talking with Eva, um, who's on Substack as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: She bought a nonfiction book from TikTok shop and she had like
• 13:48
  followed the author for some time and was like i don't want
• 13:52
  this book i don't need
• 13:53
  this book and then finally was so you know was kind of you know
• 13:56
  she eventually
• 13:57
  bought because she was like yeah i do kind of want this book so
• 14:00
  i hear that it's
• 14:01
  definitely great and i think it's um very viable for people who
• 14:06
  love tiktok who
• 14:08
  find it easy um and i think that's a big thing is that if it's
• 14:12
  hard and you don't
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: like it then don't do it um
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's a big opportunity.
• 14:19
  But for people who are natural with video and editing video and
• 14:22
  that kind of thing,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: that makes a ton of sense,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would think.
• 14:27
  So what is the number one mistake that self-published authors
• 14:31
  do when it comes to
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: marketing their books?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a hard one to say.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been there.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've made all the mistakes.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of them you can make.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably making some right now.
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  I would just say that probably the biggest one that has a big
• 14:55
  downstream effect
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  SPEAKER_00: Because if you make this mistake, it's really hard to recover.
• 15:01
  And you find yourself deep in a hole of spending money on all
• 15:04
  these different things.
• 15:05
  And it could have been resolved if you had avoided this mistake
• 15:10
  in the beginning.
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  SPEAKER_00: And my client, Ann, so Ann did this for one of her books.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's basically writing the book and,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: getting so emotionally involved with it,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: creating the book,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: creating the book.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then coming up with the marketing plan after the book is live.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it work.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Kiyosaki published his book and then marketed it afterwards.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: But he had to hire,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: his books were,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Rich Not Poor Dad was not a successful book at first.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was sitting in cardboard boxes in his garage for like several months.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he had to go through several marketing experiments and failures.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he finally figured out
• 16:00
  a way to do it but you had to find the market and then
• 16:04
  afterwards you realize i
• 16:05
  probably should have written the book for the market you know
• 16:08
  done all the market
• 16:09
  research and then written the book for that market first um but
• 16:14
  ann was telling me
• 16:14
  about how so she written a book about how she her ovarian
• 16:18
  cancer journey um and she
• 16:21
  had poured her heart and soul into this book she spent a year
• 16:23
  on it and then she
• 16:25
  was thinking okay so like well now what now that i finished the
• 16:28
  book it's published
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: and
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I go and sell it?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I go and sell it to?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the market?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then thinking about the market, do they want a book like this?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why do they want a book like this?
• 16:44
  What are the current books that are similar to mine that could
• 16:48
  possibly be filling
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: the same void that mine would be?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are the YouTube influencers that are filling the void for them?
• 16:57
  Could they be watching YouTube and watching Instagram and
• 17:00
  watching Substack Live
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: rather than reading a book online?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll find that in a lot of my internet connections,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people will find themselves,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: and I've done it myself before as well,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: where I'll write the book,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: write the book for my own heart,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I put everything I have into it,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: everything I've experienced.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then realize after the fact that people wanted a different book,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: maybe on the same topic,
• 17:30
  but maybe they want case studies or maybe they wanted like a
• 17:34
  timetable or like they
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: wanted like graphs or something,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: just something different content and being really clear about.
• 17:43
  on what the market wants and needs in your book and creating
• 17:49
  the book for that is
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: just going to save you so much time,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: money,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: energy,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: headache,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: heartache in the long run.
• 17:58
  So what was the most successful thing that you've done recently
• 18:02
  to your clients
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: that actually worked and maybe actually surprised you?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: You were not expecting it, but it just blew up.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: It just blew up.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Something that,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: like you just,
• 18:18
  like you were surprised that this one client sold a lot from an
• 18:23
  Instagram post or,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 18:26
  like something that happened recently that was a success story
• 18:29
  that you'd like to
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: share with us,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: especially something that a bit surprised you.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say anything really blew up.
• 18:44
  um i think that's the reality like the reality check is that
• 18:48
  all of my clients have
• 18:50
  put in the work and they were you know they pitched to podcasts
• 18:56
  consistently they
• 18:58
  posted consistently they you know sent out advanced reader
• 19:01
  comment uh copies so
• 19:03
  they did the things and so it wasn't nothing was like whoa like
• 19:07
  one thing like
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: totally took off but um
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would say,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: so,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: my first client ever,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: my first ever client,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: she paid me 500 bucks.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we worked together for six months.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I held her hand throughout the whole thing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she is a rock star.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it has to do with the author.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Good job.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's by no means is it me at all.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm sharing and helping them and guiding them.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: But all credit is going to the author,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: just like with like music or like like Taylor Swift,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: like the person who's like that marketing person.
• 19:55
  mastermind behind her brand is taylor swift okay yeah there's
• 19:59
  not like some like
• 20:02
  pie in the sky there's not a publisher out there saving her and
• 20:05
  she like nixed the
• 20:07
  the record producers that were like she yeah she's just she's
• 20:11
  the mastermind and so
• 20:12
  the people who are really successful own own their marketing
• 20:15
  and own their process
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: and own their success um but anyway back to beth
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this was surprising because she's my first ever client.
• 20:26
  So she sold through her hard work through sold a thousand books
• 20:30
  in six months.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, she did a great job.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 20:39
  I was told at one point that you have to sell like 5,000 copies
• 20:42
  to make like any
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: sort of like momentum.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But she sold 1,000 copies and then took that and then ran with it.
• 20:51
  So in every pitch she then sent out,
• 20:53
  she was like,
• 20:54
  I've sold 1,000 copies already.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a number one Amazon bestseller.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: My book is in libraries and bookstores.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so she just ran with that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: So she, like, used that to then get onto, like, a local TV station.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was a statewide TV station.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: She got on top 2% podcast.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: She got into, like, more podcasts and more speaking gigs.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she got a brand deal.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I always thought that,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: you needed to have,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: massive success,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: book success,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: before you can reopen,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: before the doors of,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:26
  pr open up for you and i i don't think that's necessary i mean
• 21:30
  for some people a
• 21:30
  thousand seems like a lot but it's doable and in fact it's
• 21:35
  actually it's it's it's
• 21:37
  so it's totally doable okay um once you can like open that door
• 21:40
  i it sounds like
• 21:42
  that's like the thing that can like like the stream starts to
• 21:45
  take you and carry
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: you um and that's yeah clearly that has worked for her really well hmm
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about paid ads?
• 21:55
  And what paid ads do you think like Facebook versus Amazon KDP
• 22:00
  and all of that and Instagram?
• 22:02
  And how do you guide your clients when it comes to using paid
• 22:06
  ads for marketing your books?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Amazon ads is bread and butter.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I use Amazon ads for,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: and by bread and butter,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like it's just a part of the process,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: part of the proven process.
• 22:21
  It's part of the proven process that I learned how to sell
• 22:25
  books from in publishing.com.
• 22:27
  They teach all of their 50,000 students to use Amazon ads and
• 22:31
  it's helped.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like my friend Dan has sold 40,000 books from it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: My friend Ollie has sold 200,000 books from it.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So Amazon ads is like,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know how to use it, just like anything.
• 22:44
  And you need to be very cognizant of what you're spending
• 22:50
  versus what's coming out.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's also a learning curve.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think with any tool, there's a learning curve.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But it has been awesome.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also really powerful for nonfiction because...
• 23:05
  um i was talking to so i i visit this like subconscious healer
• 23:10
  from time to time
• 23:11
  her name is um oh gosh i haven't seen her in a while um her
• 23:16
  name i think it's
• 23:17
  heather oh my gosh she has red hair okay sorry um but she was
• 23:20
  saying how when she
• 23:22
  buys books on amazon she usually buys them like she see she
• 23:26
  like gets an interest
• 23:27
  in something and wants to buy a book on it and then she'll buy
• 23:30
  like four books and
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: That she thinks are somewhat similar to the thing she's experiencing.
• 23:37
  And Amazon has this feature where you can,
• 23:40
  you know,
• 23:40
  people are browsing for books.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And Amazon is the biggest, hungriest bookstore in the world.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see on,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:47
  there's this bar at the bottom where you'll find books that are
• 23:50
  similar to the
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: books that you're looking at.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:52
  And they'll click and they'll click and they'll click and
• 23:53
  they'll click and they'll click.
• 23:55
  And you can use Amazon advertising to target similar books to
• 23:59
  yours and retarget
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: books that people are buying online.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: that are coming from and buying your book from that one.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, it's so powerful.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how, yeah, I sold 15,000 copies and Dan's sold 40,000.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So super powerful.
• 24:16
  And I can't speak at all to meta ads like Facebook and
• 24:20
  Instagram other than I have
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: spoken to several people,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: like prospects,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: who have tried meta ads, and they said that it hasn't worked for them.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I also know it's more expensive than Amazon ads.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: if the goal is for it to be a last leader,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: maybe some people...
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was talking to some other entrepreneurs the other day.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: His name is Will Brown.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's very experienced in Facebook ads.
• 24:46
  And so that just felt more comfortable for him to advertise a
• 24:50
  book on Facebook.
• 24:53
  But if you're really trying to have a limited budget and you
• 24:55
  don't know what you're
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: doing with Facebook ads,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I would recommend selling a book
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: $20 book through a Facebook ad.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So you would say Amazon ads.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And how would people learn how to use Amazon ads?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just go YouTube and look for a tutorial on how to use Amazon ads.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how would people develop the know-how of using Amazon ads?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Especially those crappy self-published authors.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Scrappy self-published authors, the best.
• 25:30
  Yeah,
• 25:30
  you can,
• 25:31
  I mean,
• 25:31
  just like you could learn how to use it on YouTube.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's actually quite a few YouTube tutorials on how to do it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of like with everything, like...
• 25:43
  you know are you learning how to become a real estate investor
• 25:46
  on youtube or do you
• 25:47
  like pay to be in like an exclusive mastermind to learn how to
• 25:50
  be a real estate
• 25:51
  investor and depends on like your level of commitment depends
• 25:55
  on your level of
• 25:56
  experience um and so like i learned how to do amazon ads
• 26:01
  through the paid course i
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: learned it through through publishing.com and
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: paid even extra for a consultant to help me.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I help my paid clients with Amazon ads.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you sign up for our,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: our paid offerings,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: you learn how to do Amazon ads,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: you get support there.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we walk you through the whole process.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to talk a bit about your business.
• 26:26
  I just read a post that you had that you like tripled or your
• 26:34
  income or maybe your
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: income is like about 10 times.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: So how did that happen?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the honesty that the first year, like you made only 5,000.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And not many people are willing to admit that.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: I admire your honesty,
• 26:52
  especially in the culture of all the online bros who tell you
• 26:55
  they make millions
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: every month.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so... So...
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that for me was like a hook to keep reading.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, wow, you know, you never gave up.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: But how did you do it?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: How did you get all these clients?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: And what was your mindset?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, like, F it, you know, like, why do I bother with this?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't I just go get a nine to five job?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: I spent one year and this is.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to talk about how you're doing it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: And what is the mindset that you developed to keep going?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, very loaded question.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love this next question to talk about.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I mean, there is no silver bullet.
• 27:47
  There wasn't like one thing that's like,
• 27:50
  this is the reason that I 10 X my business in one year.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I, I use the word 10 X because I know it's a hook.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I made $5,000 year one and I made 50,000 in year two.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore I can say, yeah, it's 10 X. Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: But like,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I remember like year one and it was,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: it was like,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: and it's also embarrassing because from,
• 28:17
  and I considered myself like a marketing pro after having sold
• 28:22
  six figures in
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: books.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 28:24
  I know what I'm doing only to make like $5,000 my first year of
• 28:29
  my coaching
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: business.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, maybe I don't know what I'm doing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt, I felt really embarrassed.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, um,
• 28:36
  i was um i remember also think because i'm i'm married and i
• 28:40
  live in the u.s and so
• 28:41
  luckily there's that like where i get to ride on the coattails
• 28:45
  of my husband who
• 28:46
  works a nine-in-five job yeah um yeah and i i mean i was yeah i
• 28:50
  felt guilty for
• 28:51
  like not pulling my weight of course um and i was like you know
• 28:56
  well you know and i
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: and i also you know you think back on like
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I came from corporate and I was thinking,
• 29:03
  I've been wanting to build a real online business for years at
• 29:07
  that point.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: if I go back to corporate,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: it would be like it would be like dying a slow death at that point.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: It would be like, I don't know if I could.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so at some point and this is I'm a big manifester.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I I'm a big spiritual principles, reality trans surfing girl.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a point where I was like, I have to completely surrender.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is the worst outcome that could possibly happen?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: basically would be I make no money and then my husband loses his job.
• 29:45
  What would happen if that,
• 29:46
  you know,
• 29:46
  what would happen to us if that happened?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to do the mental exercise.
• 29:51
  Your anxiety wants to kind of fogs you from like following that
• 29:57
  path down.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: What would happen if that happened?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm asking you.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: What would happen?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to say it and
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I followed that path down.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 30:11
  we would have to basically move out of our home and we would
• 30:14
  probably move in with
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: my in-laws or my mom and we would,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: what,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: then try to find a job.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And was that scary?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Was that scary?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the scariest part was the anxiety of not...
• 30:37
  accepting that reality once i accepted it i was like didn't
• 30:45
  alex ramosi do that
• 30:47
  didn't wes bergman do that did like i know who actually two
• 30:52
  entrepreneurs who are
• 30:54
  now successful in their own right or whatever who had to move
• 30:57
  in with their in-laws
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: is it that big of a deal
• 31:02
  And so there's this conversation you have to have with yourself
• 31:06
  that I realized I
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: had never had before.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:11
  And once I was at total acceptance,
• 31:15
  I was in total surrender,
• 31:16
  that was when I was totally free.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it could have been...
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if the worst case happens, great.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: If the best case scenario happens, great.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: All good.
• 31:33
  And that's like energetically when you're now no longer
• 31:37
  creating this force field on either way.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just like you have now freed up the energy now.
• 31:45
  And I wouldn't I would not say that I did anything different to
• 31:51
  10x other than I
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: increased my prices dramatically.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I used to charge my first ever client.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I charged her 500 bucks.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: We worked one-on-one for six months.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I then charge,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was,
• 32:04
  I was charging people about like $2,500 for six months of
• 32:07
  one-on-one work.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Starting in 2025, it was $10,000.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I moved my group programs up.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had to build out the group program.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a group program.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So 2025 is all about building out a group program.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was my, it used to be my one-on-one price.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: It became my group price.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: and tried selling it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Had so many no's, had so many objections.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like, what are you smoking?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I doubted myself all the time until finally someone said yes.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Amy said yes.
• 32:37
  um and that was that was game on it was like once one sells
• 32:42
  it's like you now have
• 32:43
  evidence you now can tell your brain that there's one person
• 32:46
  that means that
• 32:47
  there's another another and another and there has been and you
• 32:51
  just keep going from
• 32:52
  there yeah so how do you get the clients how do you approach
• 32:55
  them what's your kind
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: of client acquisition strategy yeah um that's a good question um
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear from you as well, Natasha.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think everyone has different ideas and things are trying.
• 33:11
  So the one that we're,
• 33:13
  we're doing most often now is conducting a free workshop.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, three, a free, like three to five day workshop.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we present,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:23
  the sales presentation and engage people and show them the
• 33:27
  possibility of what they
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: could have.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, um,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then enroll them if they either want group or one-on-one.
• 33:36
  And that seems to be,
• 33:38
  it's not by any means optimized,
• 33:40
  but it's working so far.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: What about you?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: How often do you run these workshops?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've run them quite frequently in the past year.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was like once every other month.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was too much.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think now, I think next year we'll probably do quarterly.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And what do you, like, I'm getting just into the weeds here.
• 34:03
  So you build the landing page on,
• 34:07
  like,
• 34:08
  what platforms do you use,
• 34:09
  like,
• 34:10
  for all of that?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:14
  I mean,
• 34:14
  like,
• 34:14
  the funnels that you use,
• 34:17
  all that,
• 34:18
  like,
• 34:20
  how do you do that technically?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think like, so I had to just use what I have.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a point where I was like,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to pay extra for another landing page software.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I just figured out how to build a landing page on Squarespace.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, and then connect it to my website.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's technically a page on my website.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing after another.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:51
  And did you get any clients from Substack or where do they even
• 34:58
  usually see those
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: webinars where they come and sign up?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Substack is number one,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: mostly because I'm hanging out on Substack most of the time anyway.
• 35:10
  And I think there's probably a lot of people on LinkedIn who
• 35:13
  would benefit from
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: this message,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm just not,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like spreading myself too thin.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather just hang out on one place and enjoy it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, like the reason I'm asking is,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: You asked me about what my strategy is.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: My strategy is DMs, call DMs via LinkedIn.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I get most of my ghostwriting clients from,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: mostly from LinkedIn and book coaching clients as well.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I use LinkedIn sales navigators, which I've been playing a lot with.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: That is my strategy.
• 35:59
  I'm not sure if it's the best strategy and I keep tweaking it
• 36:03
  here and there.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: But so for you,
• 36:06
  like you would see an author on Substack and you would just DM
• 36:10
  them and offer your
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: services or how would that happen?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, um,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, I, and I think you're totally right, Natasha.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's different.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's kind of got something that feels more natural to them.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually, I don't cold DM them.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I only, so I have, you know, the main Substack audience on email.
• 36:37
  And,
• 36:38
  um,
• 36:38
  we now create this like separate Substack for our,
• 36:43
  our workshop.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we say, Hey, this is our September workshop sub stack.
• 36:48
  And if you want to be a part of it,
• 36:50
  simply subscribe to it or we add them manually.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I also,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I even reach out to people and say,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: we're hosting a free workshop that offers this value.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Would love to have you if you can make it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that separate Substack is kind of cool.
• 37:06
  It's kind of like a Facebook group where people kind of feel
• 37:09
  like they're part of like a club.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we engage in the chat there.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really only active for the workshop.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 37:17
  That's kind of like our little incubator to nurture people and
• 37:22
  pour into people
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: help them see their possibility.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: everything's kind of sent out,
• 37:29
  like including like the Zoom calls and everything that we're
• 37:31
  doing goes through
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking at yours now.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so you have the Smoking Hot Books and then you have Rene Substack.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: So what's the difference between those two publications?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: I see myself now.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Smoking Hot Books.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: As very meta.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you have the Smoking Hot Books and then you have the Rene Substack.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: What is the difference between those two?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Renee Substack is a personal blog.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's where I share just stuff that is on my mind.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the Smokin' Hot is the business one.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Business content, manifestation content, things like that.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And, I mean, technically, I cross-post across them.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: No strategy there.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: How about marketing funnels?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do you use marketing funnels?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was you maybe that said something called smoking hot funnels.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Was that you?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember.
• 38:38
  Yeah,
• 38:38
  I think it was you who had like a headline,
• 38:41
  smoking hot funnels,
• 38:42
  and I still remember it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so what do you do when it comes to funnels?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Do you actually apply funnels for selling books?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do you create funnels for your clients?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: What is your strategy?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for the book itself, for clients, yeah, of course, the main...
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: The bread and butter,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: the peanut butter and jelly,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what other word to use,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: is to get readers into your sales pipeline.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that means signing up for your email list, signing up for your list.
• 39:26
  And that usually is a QR code or a website link inside the book
• 39:31
  that offers a
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: bonus,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: something they can't get otherwise.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they see that you also have an online world,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: people who are reading a book,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: they it's physical.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to transfer them from the physical world,
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: like you were saying,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: from the physical to the online world.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you can do that through sales pages in the back.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can do that through a QR code.
• 40:00
  I've seen books who they have a,
• 40:04
  they offer like every chapter,
• 40:06
  there's a different bonus.
• 40:07
  And they say,
• 40:08
  just go to this really simple URL,
• 40:11
  like jessicasweig.com slash bonus.
• 40:16
  And they post it multiple times in the book so that you're
• 40:20
  like,
• 40:20
  okay,
• 40:21
  okay,
• 40:21
  okay,
• 40:22
  okay.
• 40:23
  And eventually you go to get that bonus and now you're on her
• 40:26
  list and the rest is history.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's really the overall goal.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the question is,
• 40:34
  is do you have enough books out into the in the world so that
• 40:38
  people are joining
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: your list from your book?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: I never thought of putting a QR code on a book.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is that it's that's that's a great strategy.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: What is the...
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know we're kind of running out of time,
• 41:00
  but what are the hot trends now in marketing books for 2026
• 41:09
  that we should pay
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: attention to?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mentioned TikTok shop, the live shopping.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: What is one thing that... And you know, the trends keep shifting.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Some people are like...
• 41:20
  want their seo to appear not on the website but on like uh ai
• 41:27
  like chat gpt or
• 41:28
  whatever there's always these goals that people are trying to
• 41:33
  meet or so what are
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: the the trends that we should keep an eye on hmm
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great question, Natasha.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying this because I don't keep a pulse on trends,
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really like...
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to be honest.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really like following trends.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like...
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather do the thing that I know works and is this,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: is the still,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: calm background that works every time.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because...
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's proven.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: It works.
• 42:16
  I know someone was asking me about Alex Hermosi's book launch
• 42:19
  this past year,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: and it was,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: the biggest ever,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: But he wasn't doing anything necessarily to...
• 42:28
  trendy or novel or new he was um doing the basics over and over
• 42:35
  again and that's he
• 42:37
  was you know asking people to come and be an affiliate and
• 42:41
  share the book and bring
• 42:42
  people in and incentivize people and buy books in bulk and it's
• 42:47
  and i i i've come
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: to believe and this is my personal philosophy in business too now like
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like, I ain't chasing no trends anymore.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to do the basics over and over again.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what it just means.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: When people hear something that they've been hearing,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: but then they,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: hear the same message,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: but in just a different way,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: and it finally opens up,
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: and they're like,
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's service.
• 43:16
  That's like,
• 43:17
  wow,
• 43:17
  like,
• 43:18
  someone cared enough about me that they were willing to...
• 43:21
  beat the hammer in so many times and finally give me the relief
• 43:26
  of illumination in my brain.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I get it now.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it so nice when your kindergartner teacher is like,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's okay,
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know two plus two is hard,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: but have you thought of it this way?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, thank you, teacher.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so...
• 43:39
  The basics are great and the basics work and they can be
• 43:45
  repackaged in different
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: ways according to your creativity.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok shop is clearly like a big trend that's booming,
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: but TikTok shop is not for people who don't,
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: who like,
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even like get the,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: like the editor to work.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even I struggle with that.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So TikTok shop is going to be great if you know how to,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: if you gravitate towards it,
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: love to use it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't,
• 44:09
  it's like not anything necessarily different from like
• 44:11
  podcasting or like sharing
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: your bonus through a book.
• 44:16
  It's the same basic principles over and over again,
• 44:20
  just in different modalities.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I view it.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I would want all my clients to view it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Natasha?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha?
• 44:31
  I think TikTok shop is a big one and also using the affiliates
• 44:37
  on the TikTok shop.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's, I think, a big one, personally.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's probably what I'm thinking of.
• 44:49
  But who's one self-published author that you think is doing or
• 44:55
  has done an amazing
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: job as an example of a self-published author that sold a lot of books?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
• 45:08
  You can go into the Substack and find some good case studies of
• 45:12
  self-published
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: authors who've done really well.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are some examples here.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's tons.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm plugging all of my clients.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Every single one of my clients has done awesome.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: I go back to... Yeah.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is this book.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was given this book for my dad when I was like 26 or something.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And my brain was like, oh, this is I want to be an entrepreneur now.
• 45:48
  And I was following along and I was like,
• 45:50
  maybe I want to be a real estate investor.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Until I just realized that Robert Kiyosaki was basically sharing,
• 46:00
  creating a book funnel for his real estate consulting business
• 46:03
  through his book.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh, I can do that because I sell books.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I publish books.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: That realization was like, like you were saying, it was like so meta.
• 46:16
  And I realized that Robert Kiyosaki was not some like
• 46:20
  entrepreneur on a pedestal.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't like some God or anything.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's just like you and me.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's a human being who's just been at it, who's believed in his message.
• 46:31
  so deeply for so long that he cares enough about it that he's
• 46:36
  just pounding the
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: pavement every single day.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we get rewarded for it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think the last question,
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: if there's one thing that an author comes to you or whatever and say,
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have time,
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: I only have one time to do one thing,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: what would you tell them?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: When it comes to marketing their book,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: like they say,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: I have only one thing,
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: whatever,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Amazon ads,
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: YouTube,
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: So what would you tell them?
• 47:09
  One thing that all authors should do,
• 47:13
  all self-published authors should do.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would ask them what time they have.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would get some more clarity.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: I would say,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can dedicate one hour a day for marketing,
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: and that's the only time I have.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say probably this, that what you're doing with marketing is
• 47:45
  it it's if you're doing youtube over here podcasting over here
• 47:49
  instagram over here
• 47:52
  you will probably be on the one hour per per day marketing
• 47:57
  hamster wheel for the
• 47:58
  rest of your life with not much to show for it i'm okay oh my
• 48:04
  gosh i know i'm okay
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: he and i went to georgia tech um together anyway um
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say consider wrapping all of the things that you're doing,
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's your Instagram,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: your book,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: all your ecosystem,
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: and put it together into one hour per day into relaunching your book.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: instead of grinding it out and posting and posting and posting,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: please buy my book,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: please buy my book,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: please buy it.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, do what Amy Sudo is doing right now.
• 48:43
  Which is rethinking her book launch and taking what she has and
• 48:51
  revamping everything.
• 48:53
  Stopping everything she's doing with TikTok and all that other
• 48:56
  stuff and saying,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to focus on relaunching my book on Amazon.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get advanced readers.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get pre-orders.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to build a landing page for people to come.
• 49:10
  So that when people do buy my book and they come on my landing
• 49:12
  page,
• 49:13
  they join my email list.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that over the next six to 12 months,
• 49:18
  you have created a flywheel that gets easier and easier and
• 49:23
  easier to turn the
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: book,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: to turn the wheel around.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it gets easier to sell your book.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: More people are flooding in to your email list.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: More people are coming in and it gets easier.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so now your book is complementing your Instagram.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Your Instagram is complementing your YouTube.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Your YouTube is complementing your podcast.
• 49:42
  Everything now is synergistic and it's all one piece rather
• 49:47
  than we have isolated things.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's now just one thing.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: So the flywheel, it always goes back to your newsletter.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you're saying?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: I would say... So the number one is the newsletter.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, because many authors don't even have a newsletter.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, the number one thing is don't start a newsletter.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the number one thing is to...
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: do the relaunch of your book,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: which includes sending out pre-orders,
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: sending out advanced reader copies.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: By saying relaunch, which means, what does that mean?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like you've already launched it.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to launch it again.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you mean by you saying relaunch?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 50:39
  So you launched it with like a subpar strategy and now you're
• 50:44
  relaunching it with a
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: more kind of strategic approach.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: So this has been wonderful.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: We've been chatting for an hour.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so for anyone who wants to get in touch with you,
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: hire you as a marketing expert,
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: how can they reach you?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Say that one more time.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think my internet went out.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, sorry.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, internet.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: For anyone who wants to reach out to you,
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: to hire you as a marketing expert,
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: how can they reach you?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 51:22
  you can click on my name anywhere on this thing and then go
• 51:25
  straight to my sub
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: stack,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: the smoking hot book sub stack.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would absolutely recommend starting there.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: like you have,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: if you're on this hamster wheel of like that feeling of like,
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: you,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: you're just like grinding it out.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: There is another way where it feels like when you,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: when you launch your book,
• 51:45
  it feels like a supernova of sparks and everyone's coming to
• 51:47
  you for a podcast
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: invitation,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: speaking invitations.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's available for you.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I recommend subscribing to the Substack and get started there.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you very much.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: And for everyone who joined us, thank you very much.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: There was a question here.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going back about what do you think of review copies?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Question from Eric.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Review copies.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean like advanced copies or copies specifically for a review?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a jargon thing.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people call the same thing different things.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: If it's the same thing, which it sounds like it is.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's advanced copies.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I understood.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100% all the way.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's amazing.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: It works.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, excellent.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 52:47
  I think I answered the others were just comments,
• 52:50
  but that was the only questions that I found.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you very much.
• 52:55
  And for everyone who joined us for another episode of the
• 52:59
  Substack Writers Salon,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: thank you very much.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: And until next time, thank you.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.