Latest / Substack Writers Salon / TikTok, Amazon Ads, or Email? Where Self-Published Authors Should Really Focus
Transcript
- 0:00Hi,
- 0:00everyone,
- 0:01and welcome to another episode of the Substack Writer's Salon.
- 0:06SPEAKER_03: And we have Renee Povada with us.
- 0:10SPEAKER_03: And Renee,
- 0:11SPEAKER_03: she helps successful entrepreneurs build immortal authority through their
- 0:18SPEAKER_03: self-published books.
- 0:19SPEAKER_03: Okay, welcome, Renee.
- 0:21SPEAKER_03: So what is immortal authority?
- 0:23SPEAKER_03: I'm curious to see how I can build immortal authority.
- 0:27SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 0:29SPEAKER_00: Natasha, thank you so much.
- 0:31SPEAKER_00: I've seen you, you know, be awesome on Substack and get around.
- 0:36SPEAKER_00: And I love following your content.
- 0:39And I think we connected on some of your recent posts on how
- 0:43life is like an open
- 0:44SPEAKER_00: world game,
- 0:45SPEAKER_00: which I absolutely agree with.
- 0:47SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 0:49SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 0:49SPEAKER_00: So, Immortal Authority.
- 0:52SPEAKER_00: I mean...
- 0:53SPEAKER_00: This is the next level for
- 0:58A lot of entrepreneurs and business owners who have been in the
- 1:04game for some time.
- 1:06SPEAKER_00: They've mastered a lot of skills.
- 1:10SPEAKER_00: And they've been making content.
- 1:12SPEAKER_00: They've made a lot of great money online.
- 1:17SPEAKER_00: And they're ready for that next level of impact.
- 1:22SPEAKER_00: They're ready for that next level of being known for their wisdom and
- 1:27SPEAKER_00: Oh, Tom.
- 1:28SPEAKER_00: I know Tom.
- 1:30Hey, Tom.
- 1:30SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 1:33SPEAKER_00: And that is, yeah, that's really what we're doing here.
- 1:36SPEAKER_00: I was working with my client Valerie just the past week and she,
- 1:42Valerie has been in the game for years now and we have come up
- 1:46with a book launch
- 1:47strategy and a podcast episode strategy for her to weave in her
- 1:53spiritual journey
- 1:55SPEAKER_00: and how her spiritual journey relates to her business and
- 2:00SPEAKER_00: And that's all about,
- 2:02SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 2:02SPEAKER_00: how we launch books using your inner wisdom and proven methods as well.
- 2:09SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
- 2:09SPEAKER_00: over time,
- 2:10SPEAKER_00: create a flywheel of book sales and momentum and authority that hopefully
- 2:14SPEAKER_00: compounds.
- 2:15SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 2:16So basically,
- 2:17just to put it in layman terms,
- 2:19since I'm old,
- 2:21is that you help
- 2:25SPEAKER_03: People sell their self-published books, correct?
- 2:30SPEAKER_01: Correct.
- 2:31SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 2:32SPEAKER_03: Correct.
- 2:33SPEAKER_03: Why self-published books?
- 2:35SPEAKER_03: Why not all books?
- 2:36SPEAKER_03: Right.
- 2:38SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good question.
- 2:40SPEAKER_00: For one, because that's the experience I've been in.
- 2:44SPEAKER_00: I've never published books through a traditional publisher.
- 2:47SPEAKER_00: I've only ever done it through self-publishing.
- 2:50SPEAKER_00: And I started doing this from a course that I bought from a YouTube ad.
- 2:55SPEAKER_00: And they're like,
- 2:56SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 2:57sell books online and make money online and retire to Bali with
- 3:00your laptop.
- 3:01SPEAKER_00: And I was like, yes, I want that.
- 3:03SPEAKER_03: Okay, perfect.
- 3:05SPEAKER_03: Are you in Bali now?
- 3:09SPEAKER_00: Not constantly,
- 3:10SPEAKER_00: but I did all those things and it actually wasn't quite,
- 3:13SPEAKER_00: it wasn't ever,
- 3:14SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 3:14SPEAKER_00: I was like,
- 3:15SPEAKER_00: this is okay.
- 3:16SPEAKER_00: I kind of want more from life after I,
- 3:18SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 3:19SPEAKER_00: spend time on the,
- 3:20SPEAKER_00: anyway,
- 3:20SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 3:21SPEAKER_00: and that's kind of the whole thing,
- 3:22SPEAKER_00: right?
- 3:23SPEAKER_00: Like that's what the spiritual journey is.
- 3:24SPEAKER_00: Like you put this goalpost out there and you're like, achieve it.
- 3:27SPEAKER_00: And then your soul wants something deeper, something more from life.
- 3:31SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think a lot of,
- 3:33A lot of entrepreneurs who are really good at making things
- 3:36happen is kind of what
- 3:37SPEAKER_00: they experience.
- 3:37But yeah,
- 3:39so I started my journey in self-publishing and learned the
- 3:43ropes of self-publishing.
- 3:46SPEAKER_00: And so got good enough, I suppose, at self-publishing.
- 3:49But I've also become kind of a proponent of self-publishing
- 3:52because I love...
- 3:55I just love the kind of like tenacious,
- 3:58like scrappiness related to self-publishing.
- 4:02Like I think of like Taylor Swift and how she doesn't need
- 4:07anybody to be successful.
- 4:09SPEAKER_00: Like she's just successful on her own now.
- 4:13SPEAKER_00: She got good enough at marketing.
- 4:15SPEAKER_00: She got good enough at branding.
- 4:16SPEAKER_00: She got great at
- 4:18sales and marketing and just being a brand and i'm like yeah
- 4:23like i want to work
- 4:23with people who know that they're capable of being their own
- 4:27person without some
- 4:30person coming in and saying here like we'll help you but you
- 4:32just have to sign away
- 4:33all your rights and you know all your money and you know and
- 4:37we'll help you but and
- 4:38SPEAKER_00: then they help you
- 4:40And then it turns out they really don't help you in the way
- 4:42that you thought that they would.
- 4:43But yeah,
- 4:43it's like I love helping people who are just scrappy and want
- 4:46to figure it out.
- 4:47And those are usually actually some of the most successful
- 4:50authors that I've seen.
- 4:51SPEAKER_00: Like Robert Kiyosaki was originally a self-published author.
- 4:55SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 4:57SPEAKER_00: He was, yeah, he was like, I gotta figure this out.
- 5:00SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna roll up my sleeves and figure it out.
- 5:01SPEAKER_00: And that's what he did.
- 5:02SPEAKER_00: And even after he got picked up by a publisher, he's still out there.
- 5:07SPEAKER_00: It's like that, it's more of mentality more than anything else.
- 5:10SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's do this exercise.
- 5:13SPEAKER_03: I'm a self-published author.
- 5:15SPEAKER_03: I publish two books and I have one coming soon.
- 5:19SPEAKER_03: And it's all self-publishing.
- 5:20SPEAKER_03: I actually even publish under my own imprint.
- 5:25SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking of accepting others as well.
- 5:27SPEAKER_03: So that's another project.
- 5:30SPEAKER_03: Maybe for 2026.
- 5:32SPEAKER_03: So the exercise, I come to you, Renee.
- 5:35SPEAKER_03: I have these books.
- 5:36SPEAKER_03: They're saying, okay, I have a big audience.
- 5:40SPEAKER_03: How can you help me?
- 5:42What what what are the biggest things that I am doing that I am
- 5:47not doing?
- 5:47SPEAKER_03: Right.
- 5:48SPEAKER_03: So, for example, I have a newsletter.
- 5:51SPEAKER_03: I have a YouTube channel and I post about books.
- 5:54SPEAKER_03: I have my books in my I have a podcast.
- 5:57I have like,
- 5:59you know,
- 5:59but there's I mean,
- 6:01you know,
- 6:01there's a book here,
- 6:03a book there.
- 6:03SPEAKER_03: It's nothing great.
- 6:04SPEAKER_03: How what would you tell me?
- 6:09SPEAKER_00: Um, Natasha, Natasha, Natasha.
- 6:11I would,
- 6:13I could not tell you exactly what is going on until we really
- 6:18dive in.
- 6:19But this is a common thing that I see a lot of the time with a
- 6:23lot of prospects.
- 6:24SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 6:25SPEAKER_00: They publish a book and then, so for example, like my client, Amy.
- 6:30SPEAKER_00: And you know Amy.
- 6:30SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Amy Sudo.
- 6:32SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
- 6:33SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
- 6:33SPEAKER_00: So she, yeah, she's like the queen.
- 6:37SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's amazing at content marketing.
- 6:39SPEAKER_00: She's got the TikTok audience, Instagram.
- 6:42SPEAKER_00: She's got all the things.
- 6:43And so for her first book,
- 6:45she published this awesome book,
- 6:47Six Figure Freelance Writer.
- 6:49SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 6:49And she had built up a TikTok audience of like 45,000 people
- 6:55who want to be freelance writers.
- 6:56SPEAKER_00: And she was like, perfect.
- 6:57SPEAKER_00: This is the exact audience that...
- 7:00SPEAKER_00: would be perfect for this book.
- 7:02SPEAKER_00: And so she wrote the book.
- 7:03SPEAKER_00: And so she then says, Hey, TikTok audience, go buy my book.
- 7:08SPEAKER_00: And I, I don't think it quite did as well as she wanted it to.
- 7:14SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 7:15SPEAKER_00: And that seems to be like a common theme.
- 7:17SPEAKER_00: It's like,
- 7:18SPEAKER_00: you have all these,
- 7:19SPEAKER_00: you have all this content,
- 7:20SPEAKER_00: you have the audience and then send them to the Amazon page.
- 7:24SPEAKER_00: But the Amazon page has like 10 reviews and,
- 7:28um there's no momentum um people are like what is this and it's
- 7:34kind of like when
- 7:35you like kind of set up shop like a farmer's market and you
- 7:39have this really brand
- 7:40new like lotion and there's no one outside your booth there no
- 7:46one's trying it
- 7:47people are a little scared to try the lotion and definitely not
- 7:50really ready to buy
- 7:51SPEAKER_00: the lotion just yet
- 7:53So what we need to do is call all of our cousins and ask them
- 7:58to come and try the lotion.
- 8:00SPEAKER_00: You are 100% right, Natasha.
- 8:02SPEAKER_00: We need to get all of our people.
- 8:06SPEAKER_00: And this is exactly what Beyonce did.
- 8:09SPEAKER_00: So...
- 8:10SPEAKER_00: When Beyonce launched her Sacred Hair Care line in April,
- 8:15SPEAKER_00: and I got the Ulta catalog,
- 8:17SPEAKER_00: and it was like the first time I'd ever seen it.
- 8:20SPEAKER_00: It already had 5,000 five-star reviews.
- 8:25SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 8:25SPEAKER_00: How?
- 8:27SPEAKER_00: Because she rallied.
- 8:29SPEAKER_00: She got all the cousins.
- 8:30SPEAKER_00: She got all the people.
- 8:31SPEAKER_00: She got everybody to say to pre-buy the Sacred Hair Care line.
- 8:36SPEAKER_00: to try it out, to test it, to give her feedback.
- 8:41SPEAKER_00: And this is all happening in like the pre-launch of her haircare line.
- 8:46SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 8:47And all that feedback,
- 8:50she then gets,
- 8:51she like primes the pump,
- 8:53so to speak.
- 8:54SPEAKER_00: They're now like,
- 8:55SPEAKER_00: Beyonce,
- 8:56SPEAKER_00: we love this haircare line and we cannot wait to tell everybody about it.
- 9:01SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, right, go to Ulta.com, leave your review.
- 9:06SPEAKER_00: And so when it finally launches on Ulta,
- 9:09there's like 5,000 five-star reviews ready to then share with
- 9:16the millions of Ulta
- 9:18SPEAKER_00: customers who now want to check out Beyonce's haircare line.
- 9:22SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly the same thing we're doing with Amy's book,
- 9:24SPEAKER_00: We are now using her Substack audience to sell pre-orders,
- 9:31SPEAKER_00: to give away advanced reader copies,
- 9:33SPEAKER_00: so that when her book goes live in January,
- 9:36SPEAKER_00: they are ready to buy the book,
- 9:38SPEAKER_00: download the book,
- 9:39SPEAKER_00: leave a review,
- 9:40SPEAKER_00: and then tell everyone about it.
- 9:42SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like a landmine.
- 9:43SPEAKER_00: You know, like one landmine goes off.
- 9:49And then it triggers all the other landmines and then more and
- 9:52more and more and more.
- 9:53SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden you have an explosion of network effects,
- 10:00SPEAKER_00: which is how James Clear became so famous so fast.
- 10:03SPEAKER_00: It's just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
- 10:05SPEAKER_00: You're creating this like domino effect really fast.
- 10:08SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 10:09SPEAKER_03: So in case of Amy, where do you think her audience are?
- 10:13SPEAKER_03: On Substack or on TikTok?
- 10:15SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 10:16SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 10:17SPEAKER_00: So she has a built in audience on Substack for sure.
- 10:21SPEAKER_00: And her TikTok audience is also is is fair game, too.
- 10:24SPEAKER_00: It's it's nurturing these people and letting them know,
- 10:28SPEAKER_00: hey,
- 10:29SPEAKER_00: that this book is it's not live yet,
- 10:32SPEAKER_00: but you get to get a sneak peek.
- 10:36SPEAKER_00: on this new thing that's coming out.
- 10:40SPEAKER_00: It's like,
- 10:40SPEAKER_00: Beyonce's hair care line isn't out yet,
- 10:42but would you like to be a part of it before it goes live to
- 10:45the general public?
- 10:47SPEAKER_00: Because of that exclusivity, people love exclusivity.
- 10:50SPEAKER_00: People love new exclusivity.
- 10:52SPEAKER_00: Using these elements of human psychology,
- 10:55SPEAKER_00: we are able to kind of prompt people and incentivize people to be like,
- 10:59SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 10:59SPEAKER_00: I would love to be part of this new exclusive special club.
- 11:05SPEAKER_00: And so that's what Amy's doing.
- 11:06She's using her Substack audience to find advanced readers who
- 11:10want to be part of
- 11:11SPEAKER_00: her advanced reader team before her book goes live in January.
- 11:14SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 11:15SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to talk about...
- 11:18SPEAKER_03: where books are currently selling.
- 11:20SPEAKER_03: Everyone is saying TikTok, TikTok.
- 11:23SPEAKER_03: And I'm not sure if you agree with that,
- 11:26SPEAKER_03: and if it's all for a book or for a certain genre,
- 11:29SPEAKER_03: like romantic or whatever.
- 11:31SPEAKER_03: And the thing that I've heard, what's his name?
- 11:38SPEAKER_03: This big marketer guy something, or I forgot his name.
- 11:43SPEAKER_03: Anyways, he's saying that...
- 11:47SPEAKER_03: use TikTok live shopping to sell your books.
- 11:51SPEAKER_03: So I tried it, and I'm a boomer.
- 11:53SPEAKER_03: So I go, and I didn't know what I was doing.
- 11:56SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
- 11:58SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to use TikTok.
- 12:01SPEAKER_03: My kids call me a boomer all the time.
- 12:03SPEAKER_03: But anyways, so...
- 12:06SPEAKER_03: I go on the TikTok live shop and I'm just trying to see how I sell it.
- 12:13SPEAKER_03: So I read from the book and I said,
- 12:16I'm going to give away a book for anyone who comment or
- 12:21whatever and follow.
- 12:23I didn't get much traction and I was like,
- 12:25okay,
- 12:26this,
- 12:26I just,
- 12:26I don't have time for this.
- 12:27SPEAKER_03: And I left.
- 12:28SPEAKER_03: So, um,
- 12:30Where are we when it comes to TikTok live shopping or selling
- 12:35books on TikTok?
- 12:36SPEAKER_03: I actually sold one book on the TikTok shop, which was... That's great.
- 12:41SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was.
- 12:42SPEAKER_03: I just took the book.
- 12:43SPEAKER_03: I took my book.
- 12:44SPEAKER_03: I read from it.
- 12:45SPEAKER_03: And then I created a shop.
- 12:47uh using my llc and i posted put my books there and it was a
- 12:51shoppable video and
- 12:53one person's like oh i'm gonna buy it and she bought it so that
- 12:56was um yeah so i
- 12:59want to hear your opinion about is tiktok the place to sell
- 13:05shops is it overrated
- 13:07SPEAKER_03: what do you think
- 13:10SPEAKER_00: I have never sold anything on TikTok shop.
- 13:14SPEAKER_00: So I actually couldn't tell you.
- 13:17SPEAKER_00: But I've just heard great things.
- 13:20So the course that I learned,
- 13:22all the strategies I teach is called publishing.com.
- 13:26SPEAKER_00: They now teach TikTok shop to all of their nonfiction students.
- 13:33SPEAKER_00: So it's like a, yeah, it's another skill to add to your tool belt.
- 13:38SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was talking with Eva, um, who's on Substack as well.
- 13:43SPEAKER_00: She bought a nonfiction book from TikTok shop and she had like
- 13:48followed the author for some time and was like i don't want
- 13:52this book i don't need
- 13:53this book and then finally was so you know was kind of you know
- 13:56she eventually
- 13:57bought because she was like yeah i do kind of want this book so
- 14:00i hear that it's
- 14:01definitely great and i think it's um very viable for people who
- 14:06love tiktok who
- 14:08find it easy um and i think that's a big thing is that if it's
- 14:12hard and you don't
- 14:13SPEAKER_00: like it then don't do it um
- 14:17SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's a big opportunity.
- 14:19But for people who are natural with video and editing video and
- 14:22that kind of thing,
- 14:23SPEAKER_00: that makes a ton of sense,
- 14:24SPEAKER_00: I would think.
- 14:27So what is the number one mistake that self-published authors
- 14:31do when it comes to
- 14:32SPEAKER_03: marketing their books?
- 14:36SPEAKER_00: That's a hard one to say.
- 14:40SPEAKER_00: Because I've been there.
- 14:41SPEAKER_00: I've made all the mistakes.
- 14:43SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of them you can make.
- 14:45SPEAKER_00: I'm probably making some right now.
- 14:48I would just say that probably the biggest one that has a big
- 14:55downstream effect
- 14:57SPEAKER_00: Because if you make this mistake, it's really hard to recover.
- 15:01And you find yourself deep in a hole of spending money on all
- 15:04these different things.
- 15:05And it could have been resolved if you had avoided this mistake
- 15:10in the beginning.
- 15:12SPEAKER_00: And my client, Ann, so Ann did this for one of her books.
- 15:17SPEAKER_00: And it's basically writing the book and,
- 15:23SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 15:24SPEAKER_00: getting so emotionally involved with it,
- 15:25SPEAKER_00: creating the book,
- 15:26SPEAKER_00: creating the book.
- 15:28SPEAKER_00: And then coming up with the marketing plan after the book is live.
- 15:33SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
- 15:36SPEAKER_00: I've seen it work.
- 15:37SPEAKER_00: Robert Kiyosaki published his book and then marketed it afterwards.
- 15:42SPEAKER_00: But he had to hire,
- 15:43SPEAKER_00: I mean,
- 15:44SPEAKER_00: his books were,
- 15:45SPEAKER_00: Rich Not Poor Dad was not a successful book at first.
- 15:50SPEAKER_00: It was sitting in cardboard boxes in his garage for like several months.
- 15:55SPEAKER_00: And he had to go through several marketing experiments and failures.
- 15:58SPEAKER_00: And he finally figured out
- 16:00a way to do it but you had to find the market and then
- 16:04afterwards you realize i
- 16:05probably should have written the book for the market you know
- 16:08done all the market
- 16:09research and then written the book for that market first um but
- 16:14ann was telling me
- 16:14about how so she written a book about how she her ovarian
- 16:18cancer journey um and she
- 16:21had poured her heart and soul into this book she spent a year
- 16:23on it and then she
- 16:25was thinking okay so like well now what now that i finished the
- 16:28book it's published
- 16:29SPEAKER_00: and
- 16:30SPEAKER_00: Where do I go and sell it?
- 16:32SPEAKER_00: Who do I go and sell it to?
- 16:34SPEAKER_00: Where's the market?
- 16:35SPEAKER_00: And then thinking about the market, do they want a book like this?
- 16:41SPEAKER_00: Why do they want a book like this?
- 16:44What are the current books that are similar to mine that could
- 16:48possibly be filling
- 16:49SPEAKER_00: the same void that mine would be?
- 16:52SPEAKER_00: What are the YouTube influencers that are filling the void for them?
- 16:57Could they be watching YouTube and watching Instagram and
- 17:00watching Substack Live
- 17:01SPEAKER_00: rather than reading a book online?
- 17:03SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 17:05SPEAKER_00: So you'll find that in a lot of my internet connections,
- 17:11SPEAKER_00: a lot of people will find themselves,
- 17:15SPEAKER_00: and I've done it myself before as well,
- 17:18SPEAKER_00: where I'll write the book,
- 17:20SPEAKER_00: write the book for my own heart,
- 17:22SPEAKER_00: and I put everything I have into it,
- 17:23SPEAKER_00: everything I've experienced.
- 17:25SPEAKER_00: And then realize after the fact that people wanted a different book,
- 17:29SPEAKER_00: maybe on the same topic,
- 17:30but maybe they want case studies or maybe they wanted like a
- 17:34timetable or like they
- 17:36SPEAKER_00: wanted like graphs or something,
- 17:39SPEAKER_00: just something different content and being really clear about.
- 17:43on what the market wants and needs in your book and creating
- 17:49the book for that is
- 17:51SPEAKER_00: just going to save you so much time,
- 17:53SPEAKER_00: money,
- 17:54SPEAKER_00: energy,
- 17:54SPEAKER_00: headache,
- 17:55SPEAKER_00: heartache in the long run.
- 17:58So what was the most successful thing that you've done recently
- 18:02to your clients
- 18:04SPEAKER_03: that actually worked and maybe actually surprised you?
- 18:08SPEAKER_03: You were not expecting it, but it just blew up.
- 18:13SPEAKER_03: It just blew up.
- 18:15SPEAKER_03: Something that,
- 18:16SPEAKER_03: yeah,
- 18:16SPEAKER_03: like you just,
- 18:18like you were surprised that this one client sold a lot from an
- 18:23Instagram post or,
- 18:24SPEAKER_03: yeah.
- 18:26SPEAKER_03: I mean,
- 18:26like something that happened recently that was a success story
- 18:29that you'd like to
- 18:30SPEAKER_03: share with us,
- 18:31SPEAKER_03: especially something that a bit surprised you.
- 18:37SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
- 18:40SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say anything really blew up.
- 18:44um i think that's the reality like the reality check is that
- 18:48all of my clients have
- 18:50put in the work and they were you know they pitched to podcasts
- 18:56consistently they
- 18:58posted consistently they you know sent out advanced reader
- 19:01comment uh copies so
- 19:03they did the things and so it wasn't nothing was like whoa like
- 19:07one thing like
- 19:08SPEAKER_00: totally took off but um
- 19:11SPEAKER_00: I would say,
- 19:12SPEAKER_00: like,
- 19:13SPEAKER_00: so,
- 19:13SPEAKER_00: for example,
- 19:16SPEAKER_00: like,
- 19:16SPEAKER_00: my first client ever,
- 19:19SPEAKER_00: my first ever client,
- 19:21SPEAKER_00: she paid me 500 bucks.
- 19:23SPEAKER_00: And we worked together for six months.
- 19:26SPEAKER_00: And I held her hand throughout the whole thing.
- 19:29SPEAKER_00: And she is a rock star.
- 19:31SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it has to do with the author.
- 19:34SPEAKER_00: Good job.
- 19:37SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's by no means is it me at all.
- 19:42SPEAKER_00: It's I'm sharing and helping them and guiding them.
- 19:46SPEAKER_00: But all credit is going to the author,
- 19:48SPEAKER_00: just like with like music or like like Taylor Swift,
- 19:51SPEAKER_00: like the person who's like that marketing person.
- 19:55mastermind behind her brand is taylor swift okay yeah there's
- 19:59not like some like
- 20:02pie in the sky there's not a publisher out there saving her and
- 20:05she like nixed the
- 20:07the record producers that were like she yeah she's just she's
- 20:11the mastermind and so
- 20:12the people who are really successful own own their marketing
- 20:15and own their process
- 20:18SPEAKER_00: and own their success um but anyway back to beth
- 20:22SPEAKER_00: So I think this was surprising because she's my first ever client.
- 20:26So she sold through her hard work through sold a thousand books
- 20:30in six months.
- 20:32SPEAKER_00: And yeah, she did a great job.
- 20:35SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
- 20:39I was told at one point that you have to sell like 5,000 copies
- 20:42to make like any
- 20:43SPEAKER_00: sort of like momentum.
- 20:45SPEAKER_00: But she sold 1,000 copies and then took that and then ran with it.
- 20:51So in every pitch she then sent out,
- 20:53she was like,
- 20:54I've sold 1,000 copies already.
- 20:56SPEAKER_00: I'm a number one Amazon bestseller.
- 20:59SPEAKER_00: My book is in libraries and bookstores.
- 21:01SPEAKER_00: And so she just ran with that.
- 21:02SPEAKER_00: So she, like, used that to then get onto, like, a local TV station.
- 21:06SPEAKER_00: It was a statewide TV station.
- 21:09SPEAKER_00: She got on top 2% podcast.
- 21:11SPEAKER_00: She got into, like, more podcasts and more speaking gigs.
- 21:14SPEAKER_00: And she got a brand deal.
- 21:15SPEAKER_00: So I always thought that,
- 21:17SPEAKER_00: like,
- 21:17SPEAKER_00: you needed to have,
- 21:18SPEAKER_00: like,
- 21:19SPEAKER_00: massive success,
- 21:21SPEAKER_00: book success,
- 21:22SPEAKER_00: before you can reopen,
- 21:23SPEAKER_00: before the doors of,
- 21:25SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 21:26pr open up for you and i i don't think that's necessary i mean
- 21:30for some people a
- 21:30thousand seems like a lot but it's doable and in fact it's
- 21:35actually it's it's it's
- 21:37so it's totally doable okay um once you can like open that door
- 21:40i it sounds like
- 21:42that's like the thing that can like like the stream starts to
- 21:45take you and carry
- 21:46SPEAKER_00: you um and that's yeah clearly that has worked for her really well hmm
- 21:53SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about paid ads?
- 21:55And what paid ads do you think like Facebook versus Amazon KDP
- 22:00and all of that and Instagram?
- 22:02And how do you guide your clients when it comes to using paid
- 22:06ads for marketing your books?
- 22:10SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Amazon ads is bread and butter.
- 22:14SPEAKER_00: I use Amazon ads for,
- 22:16SPEAKER_00: and by bread and butter,
- 22:17SPEAKER_00: I mean like it's just a part of the process,
- 22:19SPEAKER_00: part of the proven process.
- 22:21It's part of the proven process that I learned how to sell
- 22:25books from in publishing.com.
- 22:27They teach all of their 50,000 students to use Amazon ads and
- 22:31it's helped.
- 22:31SPEAKER_00: Like my friend Dan has sold 40,000 books from it.
- 22:34SPEAKER_00: My friend Ollie has sold 200,000 books from it.
- 22:37SPEAKER_00: So Amazon ads is like,
- 22:40SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
- 22:40SPEAKER_00: It's great.
- 22:41SPEAKER_00: You have to know how to use it, just like anything.
- 22:44And you need to be very cognizant of what you're spending
- 22:50versus what's coming out.
- 22:53SPEAKER_00: There's also a learning curve.
- 22:55SPEAKER_00: I think with any tool, there's a learning curve.
- 22:57SPEAKER_00: But it has been awesome.
- 23:01SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also really powerful for nonfiction because...
- 23:05um i was talking to so i i visit this like subconscious healer
- 23:10from time to time
- 23:11her name is um oh gosh i haven't seen her in a while um her
- 23:16name i think it's
- 23:17heather oh my gosh she has red hair okay sorry um but she was
- 23:20saying how when she
- 23:22buys books on amazon she usually buys them like she see she
- 23:26like gets an interest
- 23:27in something and wants to buy a book on it and then she'll buy
- 23:30like four books and
- 23:32SPEAKER_00: That she thinks are somewhat similar to the thing she's experiencing.
- 23:37And Amazon has this feature where you can,
- 23:40you know,
- 23:40people are browsing for books.
- 23:43SPEAKER_00: And Amazon is the biggest, hungriest bookstore in the world.
- 23:46SPEAKER_00: And you'll see on,
- 23:47SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 23:47there's this bar at the bottom where you'll find books that are
- 23:50similar to the
- 23:50SPEAKER_00: books that you're looking at.
- 23:51SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
- 23:52And they'll click and they'll click and they'll click and
- 23:53they'll click and they'll click.
- 23:55And you can use Amazon advertising to target similar books to
- 23:59yours and retarget
- 24:00SPEAKER_00: books that people are buying online.
- 24:03SPEAKER_00: that are coming from and buying your book from that one.
- 24:06SPEAKER_00: And that's, it's so powerful.
- 24:09SPEAKER_00: And that's how, yeah, I sold 15,000 copies and Dan's sold 40,000.
- 24:13SPEAKER_00: So super powerful.
- 24:16And I can't speak at all to meta ads like Facebook and
- 24:20Instagram other than I have
- 24:23SPEAKER_00: spoken to several people,
- 24:25SPEAKER_00: like prospects,
- 24:26SPEAKER_00: who have tried meta ads, and they said that it hasn't worked for them.
- 24:31SPEAKER_00: I also know it's more expensive than Amazon ads.
- 24:35SPEAKER_00: But,
- 24:35SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 24:35SPEAKER_00: if the goal is for it to be a last leader,
- 24:38SPEAKER_00: maybe some people...
- 24:38SPEAKER_00: And I was talking to some other entrepreneurs the other day.
- 24:42SPEAKER_00: His name is Will Brown.
- 24:43SPEAKER_00: He's very experienced in Facebook ads.
- 24:46And so that just felt more comfortable for him to advertise a
- 24:50book on Facebook.
- 24:53But if you're really trying to have a limited budget and you
- 24:55don't know what you're
- 24:56SPEAKER_00: doing with Facebook ads,
- 24:57SPEAKER_00: I don't think I would recommend selling a book
- 25:01SPEAKER_00: $20 book through a Facebook ad.
- 25:04SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 25:05SPEAKER_03: So you would say Amazon ads.
- 25:06SPEAKER_03: And how would people learn how to use Amazon ads?
- 25:10SPEAKER_03: Like, just go YouTube and look for a tutorial on how to use Amazon ads.
- 25:16SPEAKER_03: Like, how would people develop the know-how of using Amazon ads?
- 25:20SPEAKER_03: Especially those crappy self-published authors.
- 25:25SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
- 25:26SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
- 25:27SPEAKER_00: Scrappy self-published authors, the best.
- 25:30Yeah,
- 25:30you can,
- 25:31I mean,
- 25:31just like you could learn how to use it on YouTube.
- 25:36SPEAKER_00: And there's actually quite a few YouTube tutorials on how to do it.
- 25:41SPEAKER_00: But kind of like with everything, like...
- 25:43you know are you learning how to become a real estate investor
- 25:46on youtube or do you
- 25:47like pay to be in like an exclusive mastermind to learn how to
- 25:50be a real estate
- 25:51investor and depends on like your level of commitment depends
- 25:55on your level of
- 25:56experience um and so like i learned how to do amazon ads
- 26:01through the paid course i
- 26:02SPEAKER_00: learned it through through publishing.com and
- 26:06SPEAKER_00: paid even extra for a consultant to help me.
- 26:09SPEAKER_00: Um, and I help my paid clients with Amazon ads.
- 26:13SPEAKER_00: If you sign up for our,
- 26:15SPEAKER_00: our paid offerings,
- 26:16SPEAKER_00: you learn how to do Amazon ads,
- 26:18SPEAKER_00: you get support there.
- 26:19SPEAKER_00: Um,
- 26:21SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we walk you through the whole process.
- 26:24SPEAKER_03: So I want to talk a bit about your business.
- 26:26I just read a post that you had that you like tripled or your
- 26:34income or maybe your
- 26:35SPEAKER_03: income is like about 10 times.
- 26:37SPEAKER_03: So how did that happen?
- 26:40SPEAKER_03: And I love the honesty that the first year, like you made only 5,000.
- 26:44SPEAKER_03: And not many people are willing to admit that.
- 26:49SPEAKER_03: So I,
- 26:50SPEAKER_03: you know,
- 26:51SPEAKER_03: I admire your honesty,
- 26:52especially in the culture of all the online bros who tell you
- 26:55they make millions
- 26:57SPEAKER_03: every month.
- 26:58SPEAKER_03: And so... So...
- 27:05SPEAKER_03: So that for me was like a hook to keep reading.
- 27:08SPEAKER_03: Like, wow, you know, you never gave up.
- 27:12SPEAKER_03: But how did you do it?
- 27:14SPEAKER_03: How did you get all these clients?
- 27:17SPEAKER_03: And what was your mindset?
- 27:20SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, like, F it, you know, like, why do I bother with this?
- 27:24SPEAKER_03: Why can't I just go get a nine to five job?
- 27:26SPEAKER_03: I spent one year and this is.
- 27:28SPEAKER_03: So I want to talk about how you're doing it.
- 27:30SPEAKER_03: And what is the mindset that you developed to keep going?
- 27:38SPEAKER_01: Um, very loaded question.
- 27:40SPEAKER_00: I love this next question to talk about.
- 27:42SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I mean, there is no silver bullet.
- 27:47There wasn't like one thing that's like,
- 27:50this is the reason that I 10 X my business in one year.
- 27:53SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I, I use the word 10 X because I know it's a hook.
- 27:57SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 27:58SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I made $5,000 year one and I made 50,000 in year two.
- 28:02SPEAKER_00: Therefore I can say, yeah, it's 10 X. Yeah.
- 28:04SPEAKER_00: Um,
- 28:08SPEAKER_00: But like,
- 28:09SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 28:10SPEAKER_00: I mean,
- 28:10SPEAKER_00: I remember like year one and it was,
- 28:12SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 28:13SPEAKER_00: it was like,
- 28:14SPEAKER_00: and it's also embarrassing because from,
- 28:17and I considered myself like a marketing pro after having sold
- 28:22six figures in
- 28:23SPEAKER_00: books.
- 28:24SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
- 28:24SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 28:24I know what I'm doing only to make like $5,000 my first year of
- 28:29my coaching
- 28:29SPEAKER_00: business.
- 28:30SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, maybe I don't know what I'm doing.
- 28:32SPEAKER_00: So I felt, I felt really embarrassed.
- 28:34SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 28:35SPEAKER_00: And, um,
- 28:36i was um i remember also think because i'm i'm married and i
- 28:40live in the u.s and so
- 28:41luckily there's that like where i get to ride on the coattails
- 28:45of my husband who
- 28:46works a nine-in-five job yeah um yeah and i i mean i was yeah i
- 28:50felt guilty for
- 28:51like not pulling my weight of course um and i was like you know
- 28:56well you know and i
- 28:58SPEAKER_00: and i also you know you think back on like
- 29:00SPEAKER_00: Because I came from corporate and I was thinking,
- 29:03I've been wanting to build a real online business for years at
- 29:07that point.
- 29:09SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking,
- 29:10SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 29:10SPEAKER_00: if I go back to corporate,
- 29:12SPEAKER_00: it would be like it would be like dying a slow death at that point.
- 29:15SPEAKER_00: It would be like, I don't know if I could.
- 29:18SPEAKER_00: I mean, so at some point and this is I'm a big manifester.
- 29:24SPEAKER_00: I'm a I I'm a big spiritual principles, reality trans surfing girl.
- 29:31SPEAKER_00: And there was a point where I was like, I have to completely surrender.
- 29:35SPEAKER_00: What is the worst outcome that could possibly happen?
- 29:39SPEAKER_00: basically would be I make no money and then my husband loses his job.
- 29:45What would happen if that,
- 29:46you know,
- 29:46what would happen to us if that happened?
- 29:49SPEAKER_00: And you have to do the mental exercise.
- 29:51Your anxiety wants to kind of fogs you from like following that
- 29:57path down.
- 29:58SPEAKER_03: What would happen if that happened?
- 30:02SPEAKER_03: I'm asking you.
- 30:03SPEAKER_00: What would happen?
- 30:04SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
- 30:04SPEAKER_00: I'm about to say it and
- 30:07SPEAKER_00: So I followed that path down.
- 30:10SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking,
- 30:11SPEAKER_00: well,
- 30:11we would have to basically move out of our home and we would
- 30:14probably move in with
- 30:16SPEAKER_00: my in-laws or my mom and we would,
- 30:20SPEAKER_00: what,
- 30:20SPEAKER_00: then try to find a job.
- 30:25SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 30:27SPEAKER_01: And was that scary?
- 30:29SPEAKER_00: Was that scary?
- 30:31SPEAKER_00: So the scariest part was the anxiety of not...
- 30:37accepting that reality once i accepted it i was like didn't
- 30:45alex ramosi do that
- 30:47didn't wes bergman do that did like i know who actually two
- 30:52entrepreneurs who are
- 30:54now successful in their own right or whatever who had to move
- 30:57in with their in-laws
- 31:00SPEAKER_00: is it that big of a deal
- 31:02And so there's this conversation you have to have with yourself
- 31:06that I realized I
- 31:08SPEAKER_00: had never had before.
- 31:09SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 31:11And once I was at total acceptance,
- 31:15I was in total surrender,
- 31:16that was when I was totally free.
- 31:21SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 31:22SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 31:25SPEAKER_01: And it could have been...
- 31:28SPEAKER_00: Like if the worst case happens, great.
- 31:30SPEAKER_00: If the best case scenario happens, great.
- 31:32SPEAKER_00: All good.
- 31:33And that's like energetically when you're now no longer
- 31:37creating this force field on either way.
- 31:40SPEAKER_00: Like you're just like you have now freed up the energy now.
- 31:45And I wouldn't I would not say that I did anything different to
- 31:5110x other than I
- 31:52SPEAKER_00: increased my prices dramatically.
- 31:56SPEAKER_00: I used to charge my first ever client.
- 31:58SPEAKER_00: I charged her 500 bucks.
- 31:59SPEAKER_00: We worked one-on-one for six months.
- 32:02SPEAKER_00: I then charge,
- 32:03SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 32:03SPEAKER_00: I was,
- 32:04I was charging people about like $2,500 for six months of
- 32:07one-on-one work.
- 32:09SPEAKER_00: Starting in 2025, it was $10,000.
- 32:11SPEAKER_00: And I moved my group programs up.
- 32:15SPEAKER_00: I had to build out the group program.
- 32:17SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a group program.
- 32:18SPEAKER_00: So 2025 is all about building out a group program.
- 32:20SPEAKER_00: That was my, it used to be my one-on-one price.
- 32:23SPEAKER_00: It became my group price.
- 32:26SPEAKER_00: and tried selling it.
- 32:28SPEAKER_00: Had so many no's, had so many objections.
- 32:30SPEAKER_00: Everyone was like, what are you smoking?
- 32:33SPEAKER_00: I doubted myself all the time until finally someone said yes.
- 32:36SPEAKER_00: Amy said yes.
- 32:37um and that was that was game on it was like once one sells
- 32:42it's like you now have
- 32:43evidence you now can tell your brain that there's one person
- 32:46that means that
- 32:47there's another another and another and there has been and you
- 32:51just keep going from
- 32:52there yeah so how do you get the clients how do you approach
- 32:55them what's your kind
- 32:57SPEAKER_00: of client acquisition strategy yeah um that's a good question um
- 33:05SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear from you as well, Natasha.
- 33:07SPEAKER_00: Like I think everyone has different ideas and things are trying.
- 33:11So the one that we're,
- 33:13we're doing most often now is conducting a free workshop.
- 33:17SPEAKER_00: Um, three, a free, like three to five day workshop.
- 33:20SPEAKER_00: And that's where we present,
- 33:22SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 33:23the sales presentation and engage people and show them the
- 33:27possibility of what they
- 33:28SPEAKER_00: could have.
- 33:29SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, um,
- 33:31SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then enroll them if they either want group or one-on-one.
- 33:36And that seems to be,
- 33:38it's not by any means optimized,
- 33:40but it's working so far.
- 33:42SPEAKER_03: What about you?
- 33:43SPEAKER_03: How often do you run these workshops?
- 33:46SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've run them quite frequently in the past year.
- 33:51SPEAKER_00: It was like once every other month.
- 33:54SPEAKER_00: I think that was too much.
- 33:55SPEAKER_00: I think now, I think next year we'll probably do quarterly.
- 33:59SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 34:00SPEAKER_03: And what do you, like, I'm getting just into the weeds here.
- 34:03So you build the landing page on,
- 34:07like,
- 34:08what platforms do you use,
- 34:09like,
- 34:10for all of that?
- 34:12SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
- 34:14I mean,
- 34:14like,
- 34:14the funnels that you use,
- 34:17all that,
- 34:18like,
- 34:20how do you do that technically?
- 34:21SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
- 34:23SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think like, so I had to just use what I have.
- 34:29SPEAKER_00: So there was a point where I was like,
- 34:32SPEAKER_00: I don't want to pay extra for another landing page software.
- 34:35SPEAKER_00: So I just figured out how to build a landing page on Squarespace.
- 34:39SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 34:41SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, and then connect it to my website.
- 34:43SPEAKER_00: It's technically a page on my website.
- 34:46SPEAKER_00: And one thing after another.
- 34:47SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 34:49SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
- 34:51And did you get any clients from Substack or where do they even
- 34:58usually see those
- 35:00SPEAKER_03: webinars where they come and sign up?
- 35:03SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
- 35:04SPEAKER_00: Substack is number one,
- 35:06SPEAKER_00: mostly because I'm hanging out on Substack most of the time anyway.
- 35:10And I think there's probably a lot of people on LinkedIn who
- 35:13would benefit from
- 35:14SPEAKER_00: this message,
- 35:14SPEAKER_00: but I'm just not,
- 35:17SPEAKER_00: I can't,
- 35:17SPEAKER_00: I don't like spreading myself too thin.
- 35:19SPEAKER_00: I'd rather just hang out on one place and enjoy it.
- 35:22SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
- 35:25SPEAKER_03: And yeah, like the reason I'm asking is,
- 35:31SPEAKER_03: You asked me about what my strategy is.
- 35:33SPEAKER_03: My strategy is DMs, call DMs via LinkedIn.
- 35:39SPEAKER_03: And that's where I get most of my ghostwriting clients from,
- 35:44SPEAKER_03: mostly from LinkedIn and book coaching clients as well.
- 35:50SPEAKER_03: And I use LinkedIn sales navigators, which I've been playing a lot with.
- 35:55SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
- 35:58SPEAKER_03: That is my strategy.
- 35:59I'm not sure if it's the best strategy and I keep tweaking it
- 36:03here and there.
- 36:04SPEAKER_03: But so for you,
- 36:06like you would see an author on Substack and you would just DM
- 36:10them and offer your
- 36:11SPEAKER_03: services or how would that happen?
- 36:15SPEAKER_00: Um, no, um,
- 36:17SPEAKER_00: No, I, and I think you're totally right, Natasha.
- 36:21SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's different.
- 36:22SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's kind of got something that feels more natural to them.
- 36:25SPEAKER_00: I've actually, I don't cold DM them.
- 36:31SPEAKER_00: I only, so I have, you know, the main Substack audience on email.
- 36:37And,
- 36:38um,
- 36:38we now create this like separate Substack for our,
- 36:43our workshop.
- 36:44SPEAKER_00: So we say, Hey, this is our September workshop sub stack.
- 36:48And if you want to be a part of it,
- 36:50simply subscribe to it or we add them manually.
- 36:53SPEAKER_00: I also,
- 36:53SPEAKER_00: I even reach out to people and say,
- 36:55SPEAKER_00: Hey,
- 36:55SPEAKER_00: we're hosting a free workshop that offers this value.
- 36:57SPEAKER_00: Um,
- 36:59SPEAKER_00: Would love to have you if you can make it.
- 37:03SPEAKER_00: And that separate Substack is kind of cool.
- 37:06It's kind of like a Facebook group where people kind of feel
- 37:09like they're part of like a club.
- 37:12SPEAKER_00: And we engage in the chat there.
- 37:14SPEAKER_00: And it's really only active for the workshop.
- 37:16SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
- 37:17That's kind of like our little incubator to nurture people and
- 37:22pour into people
- 37:23SPEAKER_00: and,
- 37:24SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 37:24SPEAKER_00: help them see their possibility.
- 37:26SPEAKER_00: And then,
- 37:27SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 37:28SPEAKER_00: everything's kind of sent out,
- 37:29like including like the Zoom calls and everything that we're
- 37:31doing goes through
- 37:33SPEAKER_00: that.
- 37:34SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
- 37:35SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking at yours now.
- 37:37SPEAKER_03: And so you have the Smoking Hot Books and then you have Rene Substack.
- 37:42SPEAKER_03: So what's the difference between those two publications?
- 37:45SPEAKER_03: I see myself now.
- 37:46SPEAKER_03: Smoking Hot Books.
- 37:49SPEAKER_03: As very meta.
- 37:50SPEAKER_03: So you have the Smoking Hot Books and then you have the Rene Substack.
- 37:54SPEAKER_03: What is the difference between those two?
- 37:58SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Renee Substack is a personal blog.
- 38:01SPEAKER_00: It's where I share just stuff that is on my mind.
- 38:09SPEAKER_00: And the Smokin' Hot is the business one.
- 38:13SPEAKER_00: Business content, manifestation content, things like that.
- 38:16SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 38:18SPEAKER_00: And, I mean, technically, I cross-post across them.
- 38:21SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 38:21SPEAKER_00: No strategy there.
- 38:22SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 38:23SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
- 38:27SPEAKER_03: How about marketing funnels?
- 38:29SPEAKER_03: Do you use marketing funnels?
- 38:32SPEAKER_03: I think it was you maybe that said something called smoking hot funnels.
- 38:35SPEAKER_03: Was that you?
- 38:36SPEAKER_03: I can't remember.
- 38:38Yeah,
- 38:38I think it was you who had like a headline,
- 38:41smoking hot funnels,
- 38:42and I still remember it.
- 38:44SPEAKER_03: And so what do you do when it comes to funnels?
- 38:53SPEAKER_03: Do you actually apply funnels for selling books?
- 38:57SPEAKER_03: Do you create funnels for your clients?
- 39:00SPEAKER_03: What is your strategy?
- 39:03SPEAKER_00: Well, for the book itself, for clients, yeah, of course, the main...
- 39:10SPEAKER_00: The bread and butter,
- 39:12SPEAKER_00: the peanut butter and jelly,
- 39:14SPEAKER_00: I don't know what other word to use,
- 39:16SPEAKER_00: is to get readers into your sales pipeline.
- 39:20SPEAKER_00: And that means signing up for your email list, signing up for your list.
- 39:26And that usually is a QR code or a website link inside the book
- 39:31that offers a
- 39:34SPEAKER_00: bonus,
- 39:35SPEAKER_00: something they can't get otherwise.
- 39:37SPEAKER_00: And they see that you also have an online world,
- 39:40SPEAKER_00: too,
- 39:40SPEAKER_00: because,
- 39:41SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 39:41SPEAKER_00: people who are reading a book,
- 39:43SPEAKER_00: they it's physical.
- 39:45SPEAKER_00: Right.
- 39:45SPEAKER_00: And we need to transfer them from the physical world,
- 39:50SPEAKER_00: like you were saying,
- 39:51SPEAKER_00: from the physical to the online world.
- 39:54SPEAKER_00: And you can do that through sales pages in the back.
- 39:58SPEAKER_00: You can do that through a QR code.
- 40:00I've seen books who they have a,
- 40:04they offer like every chapter,
- 40:06there's a different bonus.
- 40:07And they say,
- 40:08just go to this really simple URL,
- 40:11like jessicasweig.com slash bonus.
- 40:16And they post it multiple times in the book so that you're
- 40:20like,
- 40:20okay,
- 40:21okay,
- 40:21okay,
- 40:22okay.
- 40:23And eventually you go to get that bonus and now you're on her
- 40:26list and the rest is history.
- 40:29SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's really the overall goal.
- 40:32SPEAKER_00: But the question is,
- 40:34is do you have enough books out into the in the world so that
- 40:38people are joining
- 40:39SPEAKER_00: your list from your book?
- 40:41SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
- 40:41SPEAKER_03: I never thought of putting a QR code on a book.
- 40:46SPEAKER_03: That is that it's that's that's a great strategy.
- 40:53SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 40:56SPEAKER_03: What is the...
- 40:58SPEAKER_03: I know we're kind of running out of time,
- 41:00but what are the hot trends now in marketing books for 2026
- 41:09that we should pay
- 41:10SPEAKER_03: attention to?
- 41:10SPEAKER_03: I mentioned TikTok shop, the live shopping.
- 41:13SPEAKER_03: What is one thing that... And you know, the trends keep shifting.
- 41:18SPEAKER_03: Some people are like...
- 41:20want their seo to appear not on the website but on like uh ai
- 41:27like chat gpt or
- 41:28whatever there's always these goals that people are trying to
- 41:33meet or so what are
- 41:34SPEAKER_03: the the trends that we should keep an eye on hmm
- 41:42SPEAKER_00: It's a great question, Natasha.
- 41:46SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying this because I don't keep a pulse on trends,
- 41:49SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
- 41:50SPEAKER_00: I don't really like...
- 41:52SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to be honest.
- 41:53SPEAKER_00: I don't really like following trends.
- 41:54SPEAKER_01: Okay.
- 41:55SPEAKER_00: I don't like...
- 41:56SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
- 41:56SPEAKER_00: like,
- 41:57SPEAKER_00: I would rather do the thing that I know works and is this,
- 42:04SPEAKER_00: like,
- 42:05SPEAKER_00: is the still,
- 42:06SPEAKER_00: calm background that works every time.
- 42:09SPEAKER_00: Because...
- 42:12SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's proven.
- 42:14SPEAKER_00: It works.
- 42:16I know someone was asking me about Alex Hermosi's book launch
- 42:19this past year,
- 42:20SPEAKER_00: and it was,
- 42:21SPEAKER_00: I think,
- 42:21SPEAKER_00: the biggest ever,
- 42:23SPEAKER_00: right?
- 42:24SPEAKER_00: But he wasn't doing anything necessarily to...
- 42:28trendy or novel or new he was um doing the basics over and over
- 42:35again and that's he
- 42:37was you know asking people to come and be an affiliate and
- 42:41share the book and bring
- 42:42people in and incentivize people and buy books in bulk and it's
- 42:47and i i i've come
- 42:49SPEAKER_00: to believe and this is my personal philosophy in business too now like
- 42:53SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like, I ain't chasing no trends anymore.
- 42:56SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to do the basics over and over again.
- 42:58SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what it just means.
- 43:02SPEAKER_00: When people hear something that they've been hearing,
- 43:06SPEAKER_00: but then they,
- 43:06SPEAKER_00: like,
- 43:07SPEAKER_00: hear the same message,
- 43:08SPEAKER_00: but in just a different way,
- 43:10SPEAKER_00: and it finally opens up,
- 43:11SPEAKER_00: and they're like,
- 43:12SPEAKER_00: oh,
- 43:12SPEAKER_00: I get it.
- 43:13SPEAKER_00: To me, that's service.
- 43:16That's like,
- 43:17wow,
- 43:17like,
- 43:18someone cared enough about me that they were willing to...
- 43:21beat the hammer in so many times and finally give me the relief
- 43:26of illumination in my brain.
- 43:27SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I get it now.
- 43:28SPEAKER_00: Isn't it so nice when your kindergartner teacher is like,
- 43:31SPEAKER_00: it's okay,
- 43:33SPEAKER_00: I know two plus two is hard,
- 43:34SPEAKER_00: but have you thought of it this way?
- 43:36SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, thank you, teacher.
- 43:38SPEAKER_00: You know, so...
- 43:39The basics are great and the basics work and they can be
- 43:45repackaged in different
- 43:46SPEAKER_00: ways according to your creativity.
- 43:49SPEAKER_00: TikTok shop is clearly like a big trend that's booming,
- 43:52SPEAKER_00: but TikTok shop is not for people who don't,
- 43:56SPEAKER_00: who like,
- 43:57SPEAKER_00: I can't even like get the,
- 43:58SPEAKER_00: like the editor to work.
- 44:00SPEAKER_00: I mean, even I struggle with that.
- 44:01SPEAKER_00: So TikTok shop is going to be great if you know how to,
- 44:04SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 44:05SPEAKER_00: if you gravitate towards it,
- 44:06SPEAKER_00: love to use it.
- 44:08SPEAKER_00: But if you don't,
- 44:09it's like not anything necessarily different from like
- 44:11podcasting or like sharing
- 44:14SPEAKER_00: your bonus through a book.
- 44:16It's the same basic principles over and over again,
- 44:20just in different modalities.
- 44:22SPEAKER_00: So that's how I view it.
- 44:24SPEAKER_00: That's how I would want all my clients to view it.
- 44:27SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Natasha?
- 44:28SPEAKER_00: Natasha?
- 44:31I think TikTok shop is a big one and also using the affiliates
- 44:37on the TikTok shop.
- 44:39SPEAKER_03: That's, I think, a big one, personally.
- 44:46SPEAKER_03: That's probably what I'm thinking of.
- 44:49But who's one self-published author that you think is doing or
- 44:55has done an amazing
- 44:56SPEAKER_03: job as an example of a self-published author that sold a lot of books?
- 45:03SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 45:07SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
- 45:08You can go into the Substack and find some good case studies of
- 45:12self-published
- 45:12SPEAKER_00: authors who've done really well.
- 45:17SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
- 45:17SPEAKER_00: There are some examples here.
- 45:20SPEAKER_00: There's tons.
- 45:21SPEAKER_00: I'm plugging all of my clients.
- 45:24SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
- 45:26SPEAKER_00: Every single one of my clients has done awesome.
- 45:29SPEAKER_00: I go back to... Yeah.
- 45:35SPEAKER_00: Um, this is this book.
- 45:38SPEAKER_00: I was given this book for my dad when I was like 26 or something.
- 45:43SPEAKER_00: And my brain was like, oh, this is I want to be an entrepreneur now.
- 45:48And I was following along and I was like,
- 45:50maybe I want to be a real estate investor.
- 45:53SPEAKER_00: Until I just realized that Robert Kiyosaki was basically sharing,
- 46:00creating a book funnel for his real estate consulting business
- 46:03through his book.
- 46:05SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh, I can do that because I sell books.
- 46:10SPEAKER_00: I publish books.
- 46:12SPEAKER_00: That realization was like, like you were saying, it was like so meta.
- 46:16And I realized that Robert Kiyosaki was not some like
- 46:20entrepreneur on a pedestal.
- 46:22SPEAKER_00: He wasn't like some God or anything.
- 46:24SPEAKER_00: He's just like you and me.
- 46:26SPEAKER_00: He's a human being who's just been at it, who's believed in his message.
- 46:31so deeply for so long that he cares enough about it that he's
- 46:36just pounding the
- 46:36SPEAKER_00: pavement every single day.
- 46:38SPEAKER_00: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
- 46:40SPEAKER_00: And we get rewarded for it.
- 46:42SPEAKER_00: And I believe that.
- 46:45SPEAKER_03: I think the last question,
- 46:46SPEAKER_03: if there's one thing that an author comes to you or whatever and say,
- 46:51SPEAKER_03: I don't have time,
- 46:52SPEAKER_03: I only have one time to do one thing,
- 46:54SPEAKER_03: what would you tell them?
- 46:56SPEAKER_03: When it comes to marketing their book,
- 46:58SPEAKER_03: like they say,
- 46:59SPEAKER_03: I have only one thing,
- 47:01SPEAKER_03: like,
- 47:03SPEAKER_03: you know,
- 47:03SPEAKER_03: whatever,
- 47:04SPEAKER_03: Amazon ads,
- 47:05SPEAKER_03: YouTube,
- 47:07SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
- 47:08SPEAKER_03: So what would you tell them?
- 47:09One thing that all authors should do,
- 47:13all self-published authors should do.
- 47:17SPEAKER_00: Well, I would ask them what time they have.
- 47:23SPEAKER_00: I would get some more clarity.
- 47:24SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
- 47:25SPEAKER_03: I mean,
- 47:25SPEAKER_03: I would say,
- 47:26SPEAKER_03: like,
- 47:26SPEAKER_03: I can dedicate one hour a day for marketing,
- 47:31SPEAKER_03: and that's the only time I have.
- 47:35SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say probably this, that what you're doing with marketing is
- 47:45it it's if you're doing youtube over here podcasting over here
- 47:49instagram over here
- 47:52you will probably be on the one hour per per day marketing
- 47:57hamster wheel for the
- 47:58rest of your life with not much to show for it i'm okay oh my
- 48:04gosh i know i'm okay
- 48:06SPEAKER_00: he and i went to georgia tech um together anyway um
- 48:11SPEAKER_00: But I would say consider wrapping all of the things that you're doing,
- 48:16SPEAKER_00: whether it's your Instagram,
- 48:17SPEAKER_00: YouTube,
- 48:18SPEAKER_00: your book,
- 48:19SPEAKER_00: all your ecosystem,
- 48:21SPEAKER_00: and put it together into one hour per day into relaunching your book.
- 48:29SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
- 48:31SPEAKER_00: I mean,
- 48:32SPEAKER_00: instead of grinding it out and posting and posting and posting,
- 48:36SPEAKER_00: please buy my book,
- 48:37SPEAKER_00: please buy my book,
- 48:38SPEAKER_00: please buy it.
- 48:39SPEAKER_00: Instead, do what Amy Sudo is doing right now.
- 48:43Which is rethinking her book launch and taking what she has and
- 48:51revamping everything.
- 48:53Stopping everything she's doing with TikTok and all that other
- 48:56stuff and saying,
- 48:57SPEAKER_00: I'm going to focus on relaunching my book on Amazon.
- 49:02SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get advanced readers.
- 49:04SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get pre-orders.
- 49:06SPEAKER_00: I'm going to build a landing page for people to come.
- 49:10So that when people do buy my book and they come on my landing
- 49:12page,
- 49:13they join my email list.
- 49:14SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 49:14SPEAKER_00: So that over the next six to 12 months,
- 49:18you have created a flywheel that gets easier and easier and
- 49:23easier to turn the
- 49:24SPEAKER_00: book,
- 49:24SPEAKER_00: to turn the wheel around.
- 49:26SPEAKER_00: And it gets easier to sell your book.
- 49:28SPEAKER_00: More people are flooding in to your email list.
- 49:31SPEAKER_00: More people are coming in and it gets easier.
- 49:33SPEAKER_00: And so now your book is complementing your Instagram.
- 49:37SPEAKER_00: Your Instagram is complementing your YouTube.
- 49:39SPEAKER_00: Your YouTube is complementing your podcast.
- 49:42Everything now is synergistic and it's all one piece rather
- 49:47than we have isolated things.
- 49:50SPEAKER_00: It's now just one thing.
- 49:51SPEAKER_03: So the flywheel, it always goes back to your newsletter.
- 49:57SPEAKER_03: Is that what you're saying?
- 49:59SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
- 50:01SPEAKER_03: I would say... So the number one is the newsletter.
- 50:05SPEAKER_03: I mean, because many authors don't even have a newsletter.
- 50:09SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, the number one thing is don't start a newsletter.
- 50:14SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
- 50:16SPEAKER_00: I would say the number one thing is to...
- 50:20SPEAKER_00: do the relaunch of your book,
- 50:24SPEAKER_00: which includes sending out pre-orders,
- 50:26SPEAKER_00: sending out advanced reader copies.
- 50:30SPEAKER_03: By saying relaunch, which means, what does that mean?
- 50:33SPEAKER_03: Like you've already launched it.
- 50:35SPEAKER_03: You're going to launch it again.
- 50:37SPEAKER_03: Is that what you mean by you saying relaunch?
- 50:39SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 50:39So you launched it with like a subpar strategy and now you're
- 50:44relaunching it with a
- 50:45SPEAKER_03: more kind of strategic approach.
- 50:48SPEAKER_03: Okay.
- 50:49SPEAKER_03: Got it.
- 50:49SPEAKER_03: All right.
- 50:51SPEAKER_03: So this has been wonderful.
- 50:53SPEAKER_03: We've been chatting for an hour.
- 50:58SPEAKER_03: And so for anyone who wants to get in touch with you,
- 51:02SPEAKER_03: hire you as a marketing expert,
- 51:04SPEAKER_03: how can they reach you?
- 51:07SPEAKER_00: Say that one more time.
- 51:09SPEAKER_00: I think my internet went out.
- 51:10SPEAKER_03: Oh, sorry.
- 51:11SPEAKER_03: Yeah, internet.
- 51:12SPEAKER_03: For anyone who wants to reach out to you,
- 51:14SPEAKER_03: to hire you as a marketing expert,
- 51:17SPEAKER_03: how can they reach you?
- 51:19SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 51:19SPEAKER_00: So...
- 51:22you can click on my name anywhere on this thing and then go
- 51:25straight to my sub
- 51:26SPEAKER_00: stack,
- 51:26SPEAKER_00: the smoking hot book sub stack.
- 51:29SPEAKER_00: Um, I would absolutely recommend starting there.
- 51:31SPEAKER_00: Um,
- 51:32SPEAKER_00: and,
- 51:32SPEAKER_00: um,
- 51:33SPEAKER_00: yeah,
- 51:33SPEAKER_00: like you have,
- 51:35SPEAKER_00: if you're on this hamster wheel of like that feeling of like,
- 51:38SPEAKER_00: you,
- 51:39SPEAKER_00: you're just like grinding it out.
- 51:41SPEAKER_00: There is another way where it feels like when you,
- 51:44SPEAKER_00: when you launch your book,
- 51:45it feels like a supernova of sparks and everyone's coming to
- 51:47you for a podcast
- 51:49SPEAKER_00: invitation,
- 51:49SPEAKER_00: speaking invitations.
- 51:50SPEAKER_00: Um,
- 51:51SPEAKER_00: And that's available for you.
- 51:53SPEAKER_00: So I recommend subscribing to the Substack and get started there.
- 51:58SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
- 51:58SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you very much.
- 51:59SPEAKER_03: And for everyone who joined us, thank you very much.
- 52:02SPEAKER_03: There was a question here.
- 52:03SPEAKER_03: I'm going back about what do you think of review copies?
- 52:09SPEAKER_03: Question from Eric.
- 52:12SPEAKER_00: Review copies.
- 52:15SPEAKER_00: Does that mean like advanced copies or copies specifically for a review?
- 52:20SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a jargon thing.
- 52:23SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people call the same thing different things.
- 52:28SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 52:29SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
- 52:30SPEAKER_00: If it's the same thing, which it sounds like it is.
- 52:33SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's advanced copies.
- 52:35SPEAKER_03: That's what I understood.
- 52:36SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
- 52:37SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100% all the way.
- 52:39SPEAKER_00: It is, it's amazing.
- 52:42SPEAKER_00: It works.
- 52:43SPEAKER_00: Yes.
- 52:44SPEAKER_03: Okay, excellent.
- 52:46SPEAKER_03: All right.
- 52:47I think I answered the others were just comments,
- 52:50but that was the only questions that I found.
- 52:52SPEAKER_03: All right.
- 52:52SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you very much.
- 52:55And for everyone who joined us for another episode of the
- 52:59Substack Writers Salon,
- 53:02SPEAKER_03: thank you very much.
- 53:03SPEAKER_03: And until next time, thank you.
- 53:07SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
- 53:08SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
- 53:08SPEAKER_00: Bye.