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Murder In Moscow: The Fear That The Case Would Turn Cold · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. When
0:05
Speaker 1: we talk about the murders in Moscow, one of the
0:08
Speaker 1: questions that keeps coming up is will this case turn cold?
0:13
Speaker 1: And I wish I had an answer. I wish I
0:15
Speaker 1: could say to you, nah, this case is not going
0:17
Speaker 1: to be cold. They're going to find the person who
0:19
Speaker 1: did this and they're going to make them pay. Now
0:23
Speaker 1: that's what we all want, but we also have to
0:25
Speaker 1: be realistic. and understand that there's a lot of these
0:29
Speaker 1: kinds of cases that end up going unsolved. Now, this
0:32
Speaker 1: isn't your run-of-the-mill homicide by any means. So you can
0:36
Speaker 1: really throw out all of the stats and all of
0:40
Speaker 1: the numbers that go along with regular old homicides. Because
0:44
Speaker 1: this is something completely different. When somebody goes into a
0:49
Speaker 1: house and murders four people in their beds, that is
0:53
Speaker 1: a whole different level of evil. We're not talking about
0:57
Speaker 1: somebody who had, you know, some kind of argument at
0:59
Speaker 1: their grocery store and in a moment of rage pulled
1:02
Speaker 1: out their gun and shot somebody else. This looks like
1:05
Speaker 1: it was premeditated and it looks like somebody put a
1:08
Speaker 1: lot of thought and planning into what went down here.
1:12
Speaker 1: And the fact that there's so many investigators on the
1:15
Speaker 1: scene looking into this and they still haven't found anything
1:19
Speaker 1: that at least the public knows about, it signals to
1:23
Speaker 1: me that they're a long way off still. And considering
1:26
Speaker 1: the length of time that we've had since the murders
1:28
Speaker 1: took place, you would think that anybody who is in
1:31
Speaker 1: their orbit, anybody that would be so-called low-hanging fruit has
1:36
Speaker 1: been looked at. So what does that leave us with?
1:38
Speaker 1: Logically speaking, that leaves us with an unknown perpetrator who
1:42
Speaker 1: is capable of very, very heinous crimes. And that person
1:47
Speaker 1: could be in Moscow or that person could be in
1:50
Speaker 1: a community near you. We just don't know at this point.
1:55
Speaker 1: But one thing's for sure, a lot of these murders
1:58
Speaker 1: that we see around the country, they don't get solved.
2:01
Speaker 1: And basically, it's right above 50% is where the clearance
2:06
Speaker 1: rate's at for homicides. So that means roughly half of
2:10
Speaker 1: the homicides that are committed around the country go unsolved.
2:16
Speaker 1: So today, we're going to talk a little bit more
2:18
Speaker 1: about cold cases. And to do that, we have an
2:20
Speaker 1: article from The Independent. Headline, Will the Idaho College Murders
2:25
Speaker 1: Become America's Next Cold Case? This article was authored by
2:29
Speaker 1: Rachel Sharp and Josh Marcus. It's been one month since
2:36
Speaker 1: four Idaho students were brutally murdered, and fears are growing
2:39
Speaker 1: that the case is going cold. Rachel Sharp and Josh
2:42
Speaker 1: Marcus explore a troubling trend in America's homicide clearance rates...
2:47
Speaker 1: And what happens to the families and communities left without answers?
2:51
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what happens. They're left without answers. You
2:55
Speaker 1: know how many parents go to bed every single night
2:58
Speaker 1: having no idea who murdered their child? A whole hell
3:01
Speaker 1: of a lot, folks. A whole hell of a lot.
3:06
Speaker 1: A month has now passed since four University of Idaho
3:09
Speaker 1: students were found brutally murdered in their beds. And police
3:13
Speaker 1: in the small university town of Moscow... appear no closer
3:16
Speaker 1: to solving the case. Not a single arrest has been made,
3:20
Speaker 1: no suspects have been identified, and the murder weapon is
3:24
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. With each day that passes, fears
3:27
Speaker 1: grow that the investigation is going cold and that the
3:30
Speaker 1: mass murderer who violently stabbed Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle,
3:36
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin to death will continue to walk free.
3:41
Speaker 1: Confidence in law enforcement has been fraught from the get-go,
3:44
Speaker 1: after Moscow police initially insisted that there was no ongoing
3:48
Speaker 1: threat to the community, and that was their first misstep,
3:51
Speaker 1: and one of their biggest in my opinion. You can't
3:54
Speaker 1: tell the community that there's no threat when there's somebody
3:57
Speaker 1: out there who just murdered four people. It's a bad look,
4:01
Speaker 1: it's bad work, and it's certainly bad communication. This claim
4:06
Speaker 1: was dramatically walked back days later, and authorities gave a
4:09
Speaker 1: chilling warning this Saturday that urging students, visitors, and locals
4:13
Speaker 1: to stay vigilant and travel in groups during the college
4:16
Speaker 1: commencement ceremony. Well, I don't know what that would do,
4:20
Speaker 1: traveling in groups anyway. These kids were traveling in groups,
4:23
Speaker 1: weren't they? They were all together in the house when
4:26
Speaker 1: this all happened. Students and locals previously enjoyed the relative
4:32
Speaker 1: safety of the small college town where many residents didn't
4:35
Speaker 1: even lock their doors. Now they are arming themselves with
4:39
Speaker 1: guns and and securing their homes with deadbolts. And some
4:44
Speaker 1: have left Moscow altogether. Many have accused officials of bungling
4:49
Speaker 1: the murder investigation with tensions between law enforcement and victims'
4:54
Speaker 1: devastated families now reaching boiling point. They've messed up a
4:58
Speaker 1: million times, Gonsalves' father, Steve Gonsalves, told Fox News last week.
5:03
Speaker 1: His family is now considering taking legal action against Moscow
5:06
Speaker 1: police and hiring a private investigator. to work on the case. Well,
5:11
Speaker 1: we know that some of that has been smoothed over
5:14
Speaker 1: with the hiring of Shannon Gray, the lawyer, to work
5:18
Speaker 1: as a liaison between the families and the police, but
5:21
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of tension there. And the families,
5:24
Speaker 1: they don't believe that they've been informed well enough throughout
5:27
Speaker 1: this whole ordeal. They don't want to hear in the
5:30
Speaker 1: media what happened to their loved ones. They should be
5:33
Speaker 1: told that. And now, at least for the Gonsalves family,
5:36
Speaker 1: having this lawyer involved, hopefully that's going to move in
5:39
Speaker 1: that direction. Kernodle's mother, Kara Northington, too, is hit out
5:44
Speaker 1: at the lack of information about her daughter's killing, telling
5:47
Speaker 1: News Nation, There is so much more that can be
5:49
Speaker 1: done that has not been done. They haven't said anything.
5:53
Speaker 1: I learn more on the news and on TV than
5:56
Speaker 1: what they have said to me. Despite confidence waning in
5:59
Speaker 1: the abilities of law enforcement, Moscow Police Chief James Fry
6:03
Speaker 1: has insisted that his department still has a handle on
6:07
Speaker 1: the case. Okay, I mean, if you say so. Look,
6:10
Speaker 1: I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt
6:13
Speaker 1: for now, and I'm not willing to dive headfirst into
6:17
Speaker 1: criticizing what they're doing behind the scenes because I just
6:20
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But if
6:23
Speaker 1: I'm being honest, I'm not very impressed by what I
6:26
Speaker 1: do know and by what I am seeing. This case
6:32
Speaker 1: is not going cold. We have tips coming in. We
6:35
Speaker 1: have investigators out every day interviewing people. We're still reviewing
6:39
Speaker 1: evidence and we're still looking at all aspects of this,
6:42
Speaker 1: he told Fox News. But the reality is in America,
6:46
Speaker 1: it's almost as common for murders to go unsolved as
6:50
Speaker 1: it is for the killer to be caught. And again,
6:53
Speaker 1: we have to take that with a grain of salt
6:55
Speaker 1: because of all of the resources that are being pumped
6:57
Speaker 1: into this. There is a better chance to catch the
7:00
Speaker 1: person responsible. When you have two or three detectives, you know,
7:04
Speaker 1: overseeing a case, it's a little different, a little more
7:07
Speaker 1: difficult for them to clear that case because they don't
7:10
Speaker 1: have the resources. And what do you think? The murders
7:12
Speaker 1: just stop. They keep getting murders and they get, you know,
7:16
Speaker 1: files on their desk. And before you know it, the
7:19
Speaker 1: case they were working on before, well, that's put out
7:21
Speaker 1: the bottom of the file because they have new murders
7:24
Speaker 1: to clear. With this case and all of the investigators
7:28
Speaker 1: working on it, at least we don't have to worry
7:30
Speaker 1: about that. A depressing curve. According to FBI data, just
7:37
Speaker 1: 54% of homicides were cleared through arresting and charging the
7:41
Speaker 1: suspected killers in 2020, making the lowest murder clearance rate
7:46
Speaker 1: on record. Thomas Hargrove, founder and chairman of non-profit The
7:50
Speaker 1: Murder Accountability Project, which tracks unsolved homicides across the U.S.,
7:55
Speaker 1: tells The Independent that this rate likely plunged even further
7:59
Speaker 1: in 2021. That is not reassuring. And for all of
8:03
Speaker 1: us living in America, a hyper-violent place, the last thing
8:06
Speaker 1: I want to hear is that, God forbid, somebody I
8:09
Speaker 1: care about gets murdered, there's only a half chance that
8:11
Speaker 1: we're going to find the person who did it? Unfortunately,
8:18
Speaker 1: we're right on the edge of becoming the first Western
8:20
Speaker 1: nation to allow more murders to go unsolved than they
8:23
Speaker 1: are solved, he says. That is starling. Think about that
8:27
Speaker 1: for a minute. In the United States of America, where
8:30
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice has a bigger budget than anyone
8:34
Speaker 1: else in the whole country besides the military, and they
8:37
Speaker 1: can't even make it so you clear at least half
8:39
Speaker 1: of the murders? And the longer the case rumbles on,
8:46
Speaker 1: the likelihood of it being solved only diminishes further. It's
8:50
Speaker 1: a depressing curve. Nothing good happens over time in a
8:53
Speaker 1: murder investigation, he says. This leaves communities searching for answers
8:58
Speaker 1: that sometimes never come. And look, I know people again
9:02
Speaker 1: want to give the police the benefit of the doubt
9:04
Speaker 1: that they're going to solve this case. But when you
9:07
Speaker 1: just start looking at the raw numbers and analyzing where
9:10
Speaker 1: we're at in this investigation, I'm not very confident in
9:13
Speaker 1: what's going on. There's the feeling that this will never end.
9:20
Speaker 1: 30 miles from Moscow, in another Idaho town, along the
9:24
Speaker 1: Washington border, Gloria Boebertz knows this only too well. For
9:28
Speaker 1: her family, it's been 40 years since her cousin Christina
9:31
Speaker 1: Nelson vanished from Lewiston one night, her body discovered in
9:35
Speaker 1: a canyon 18 months later. It was the 12th of September, 1982,
9:41
Speaker 1: and Nelson, 21, and her stepsister, Brandy Miller, 18, went
9:45
Speaker 1: to buy groceries and do laundry. They were never seen
9:48
Speaker 1: alive again. Now, we all know that in the 70s
9:51
Speaker 1: and early 80s, there was a shit ton of this
9:53
Speaker 1: kind of thing happening. A lot of predators out there,
9:56
Speaker 1: snatching girls, snatching women, and nobody ever seen them. them again.
10:02
Speaker 1: Steven Pearsall, a 35-year-old janitor, also vanished that night too,
10:07
Speaker 1: after heading to the local theater where he worked to
10:09
Speaker 1: practice his clarinet. His body was never found. In the
10:14
Speaker 1: 18-month period before Nelson and Miller's bodies were found, Ms.
10:17
Speaker 1: Boebert says she already knew deep down that her cousin
10:20
Speaker 1: was dead. I knew she was gone, she tells The Independent.
10:24
Speaker 1: I knew she was not on this earth anymore. It's
10:27
Speaker 1: a feeling, and when they found her body in March
10:30
Speaker 1: of 84, I remember it exactly, how I was standing
10:33
Speaker 1: in the backyard and what I was wearing. I remember
10:37
Speaker 1: it like I left and wasn't there anymore. like I
10:41
Speaker 1: was back on the cross-country vacation we did together when
10:44
Speaker 1: we were 13. It makes you realize that there are
10:47
Speaker 1: monsters out there and it bothered me to know what
10:50
Speaker 1: happened to her as she was such a kind and
10:52
Speaker 1: gentle soul. And this is the anguish that families have
10:56
Speaker 1: to live with in the wake of somebody dying or
10:59
Speaker 1: being murdered and there being no suspects and there being
11:02
Speaker 1: no justice. I think that's why I'm so interested in
11:07
Speaker 1: seeing these cases turn into justice and Because it's such
11:11
Speaker 1: a painful thought to imagine going through my whole life
11:15
Speaker 1: not knowing about my loved one. My daughter, my mom,
11:18
Speaker 1: my sister. I don't think I would ever rest. I
11:23
Speaker 1: would continue to look for answers until it made me crazy.
11:26
Speaker 1: And I know that's happened to a lot of these
11:28
Speaker 1: people who have lost loved ones. The toll it takes
11:35
Speaker 1: on a family when a loved one is brutally murdered
11:38
Speaker 1: is one thing, she says. But when the murder then
11:40
Speaker 1: goes unsolved, it becomes a double blow to the families
11:44
Speaker 1: left behind. Something that is always there, no matter how
11:47
Speaker 1: many years go by. It's been 40 years for our family,
11:51
Speaker 1: she says. There's anger. There's hopelessness. There's the feeling that
11:55
Speaker 1: this will never end and we will never have answers.
11:59
Speaker 1: I just, I can't even begin to understand what that
12:02
Speaker 1: kind of pain is like. And sometimes you're so tired
12:06
Speaker 1: of the digging, gathering, and looking that you just want
12:08
Speaker 1: to throw in the towel. But then if you do that,
12:11
Speaker 1: then there really will be no answers and no justice. Ms.
12:15
Speaker 1: Boebert says it's a ripple effect that touches each and
12:18
Speaker 1: every person in the family. And the longer time goes
12:21
Speaker 1: on and the case goes unsolved, family members die, she says.
12:25
Speaker 1: And this is the reality of it. How many people
12:29
Speaker 1: never get to see justice for their children? They die
12:32
Speaker 1: as the case goes cold, And they never get to
12:36
Speaker 1: see the person who is responsible for murdering their loved
12:40
Speaker 1: one be brought to justice. For Ms. Boebert, getting answers
12:45
Speaker 1: about what happened to her cousin and justice for her
12:48
Speaker 1: murder has become a huge part of her life. Over
12:51
Speaker 1: the last two decades, she has spent countless hours digging
12:54
Speaker 1: into the case alongside cold case detective Jackie Nichols. And
12:58
Speaker 1: this is what I'd be doing too. If it was
13:00
Speaker 1: my loved one, I know who I am. I just
13:03
Speaker 1: would not rest. I wouldn't stop. Now, does that mean
13:06
Speaker 1: you're going to find anything? No, but at least you
13:09
Speaker 1: feel like you're doing something. And I think the human psyche,
13:12
Speaker 1: the human mind, we always want to feel like we're
13:15
Speaker 1: moving the ball forward, right? We don't want to feel
13:17
Speaker 1: like we're stuck in neutral, just standing around, not making
13:20
Speaker 1: anything happen. And I think that's why I have a
13:23
Speaker 1: lot of empathy for Steve Gonsalves, because I feel like
13:27
Speaker 1: I'd be acting sort of in the same manner if
13:30
Speaker 1: I was him. She often travels from her home in
13:33
Speaker 1: California to Lewiston. to spend weeks at a time working
13:37
Speaker 1: on the case and visiting the place where her cousin
13:40
Speaker 1: was last seen alive. She also runs a dedicated Facebook
13:45
Speaker 1: group to help gather tips, which she then sends on
13:48
Speaker 1: to law enforcement. Now that she is retired, she is
13:52
Speaker 1: going through the process of training one of her three
13:54
Speaker 1: German shepherds to become a cadaver dog, if not to
13:57
Speaker 1: help in her cousin's case, then to be able to
13:59
Speaker 1: help other families desperate for answers. And you see a
14:03
Speaker 1: lot of this, too. When someone is really affected by
14:05
Speaker 1: losing a family member, they want to be involved, even
14:08
Speaker 1: if it's not finding their family member, but helping others
14:11
Speaker 1: who are affected the same way they were. In order
14:17
Speaker 1: to stay focused on the case, she says she has
14:19
Speaker 1: to separate the practical side of things from the grief
14:22
Speaker 1: of losing her cousin. Over there, I'm going to be emotional.
14:26
Speaker 1: And over here, I'm digging for tips, she says. I've
14:29
Speaker 1: conditioned myself, but I have moments of total frustration. And
14:33
Speaker 1: there are times it does get too emotional and it
14:36
Speaker 1: takes you to a very dark place. Returning to the
14:39
Speaker 1: theater where she believes her cousin was killed gives her
14:42
Speaker 1: that push to keep fighting for answers. I sit there
14:45
Speaker 1: and I ask, please tell me where to look and
14:48
Speaker 1: what I need to see, she says. Yo, you can
14:50
Speaker 1: see the anguish here, folks. And this is years and
14:53
Speaker 1: years and years on from her cousin being murdered. And
14:56
Speaker 1: you see how it affects people, how it grips people.
14:59
Speaker 1: And when it catches people in that net, in that web, man,
15:03
Speaker 1: it's real difficult to get out of there. So this lady,
15:08
Speaker 1: she has been working tirelessly year after year, decade after
15:12
Speaker 1: decade to try and find some justice. And guess what?
15:16
Speaker 1: How many detectives do you think are working on the case?
15:18
Speaker 1: Just one. A lot of these departments have like one
15:22
Speaker 1: or two, if they're lucky, cold case detectives to work
15:25
Speaker 1: on these cases. And usually when I'm up there, someone
15:31
Speaker 1: comes up to me and gives me a piece of
15:33
Speaker 1: the puzzle or tells me something about them that makes
15:36
Speaker 1: me realize what great people they were. That gives me
15:39
Speaker 1: the drive to keep going. Today, many believe the deaths
15:42
Speaker 1: of Nelson, Miller, and Pearsall came at the hands of
15:44
Speaker 1: the same local man, a man many also believe to
15:48
Speaker 1: be a serial killer responsible for the unsolved Lewis Clark
15:51
Speaker 1: Valley murders. One of those murders, tragically, also involved a
15:56
Speaker 1: University of Idaho student in Moscow. Ms. Boebert breaks down
16:00
Speaker 1: in tears as she explains what it would mean for
16:03
Speaker 1: her and her cousin's case to finally be solved after
16:06
Speaker 1: all of these years. A happiness I don't think I'd
16:10
Speaker 1: ever be able to describe just to know the victims
16:13
Speaker 1: have justice and us families have answers, she says. And that's,
16:18
Speaker 1: I think, the sentiment for a lot of these people
16:21
Speaker 1: who are dealing with cold cases. How many of them
16:25
Speaker 1: just want some answers? And unfortunately, the resources and the
16:31
Speaker 1: evidence just aren't there. I think I could finally break
16:35
Speaker 1: down at that point and release all those emotions I've
16:38
Speaker 1: had pent up. It would be overwhelming just to know
16:41
Speaker 1: everyone has answers and justice. She hopes that the families
16:45
Speaker 1: of the four students in Moscow won't have to wait
16:48
Speaker 1: as long to get answers in the case. My heart
16:51
Speaker 1: goes out to the families as a family member, You
16:54
Speaker 1: want to know something is being done. You want answers
16:57
Speaker 1: and justice, and right now they're not getting it, she says.
17:02
Speaker 1: The families of those killed aren't the only ones who
17:04
Speaker 1: suffer when murders go unsolved. You look at everyone and wonder.
17:11
Speaker 1: In the absence of answers, innocent people often fall under suspicion.
17:16
Speaker 1: And this is a fact. Look, people want answers, right?
17:20
Speaker 1: The human condition and the human psyche demands answers. Back
17:26
Speaker 1: in 1980s Lewiston, Pearsall, the janitor who went missing, was
17:29
Speaker 1: considered a suspect for some time. While he was later
17:32
Speaker 1: ruled out and is now regarded as the third victim
17:35
Speaker 1: of the same attacker, his body is still undiscovered, so
17:38
Speaker 1: some speculation will always remain. Over the past three weeks
17:43
Speaker 1: in Moscow, several names have been circulating among internet sleuths
17:47
Speaker 1: in Reddit discussions. And I don't think it's fair just
17:50
Speaker 1: to point out Reddit. How about TikTok? I mean, psychics
17:53
Speaker 1: all over the place on TikTok. Now, don't get it twisted.
17:56
Speaker 1: Reddit has its share of loons as well. But I
17:59
Speaker 1: think just pointing the finger there is a bit misguided.
18:04
Speaker 1: While police are keeping much of the investigation under wraps,
18:07
Speaker 1: investigators have tried to slow the rumor mill by debunking
18:10
Speaker 1: theories and confirming that several individuals with ties to the victims,
18:14
Speaker 1: the two surviving roommates, an ex-boyfriend of one of the victims...
18:18
Speaker 1: the so-called hoodie guy seen with two of the victims
18:21
Speaker 1: not long before the murders, have been ruled out as suspects.
18:25
Speaker 1: But that hasn't stopped their names from being made public
18:28
Speaker 1: online and rampant speculation circulating about their possible involvement. When
18:34
Speaker 1: a case is unsolved and you have a lack of
18:36
Speaker 1: credible information, you get a disturbing pattern of intense speculation.
18:41
Speaker 1: Anne Kane, journalist and co-creator of the Murder Sheet podcast,
18:45
Speaker 1: tells The Independent, you get accusations against innocent people and
18:49
Speaker 1: basically a cycle that keeps turning where people really focus
18:53
Speaker 1: on the case. And while it can be well-intentioned and
18:55
Speaker 1: helpful at the same time, there can be a lot
18:58
Speaker 1: of speculation and accusations. Ms. Kane and her husband and
19:03
Speaker 1: business partner, Kevin Greenlee have spent years reporting on two
19:07
Speaker 1: infamous cold cases in Indiana. And she's not wrong. When
19:11
Speaker 1: there's a lack of information, and there's a vacuum, people
19:14
Speaker 1: are going to come up with their own theories. And
19:16
Speaker 1: people are going to talk about those theories online, social media,
19:19
Speaker 1: and other platforms. One is the Burger Chef Murders. It
19:26
Speaker 1: was November 17th, 1978, when four young workers aged 16
19:31
Speaker 1: to 20 vanished from a Burger Chef restaurant in Speedway, Indiana,
19:35
Speaker 1: near the end of their shift. Two days later, their
19:38
Speaker 1: bodies were found nearby. they were all still dressed in
19:41
Speaker 1: their restaurant uniforms. To this day, no one has ever
19:44
Speaker 1: been charged with their murders. Yo, that's wild. I'm not
19:48
Speaker 1: even familiar with that case. but four co-workers being taken
19:52
Speaker 1: from work and killed? That's a case I definitely need
19:55
Speaker 1: to look a little more into, and perhaps we need
19:57
Speaker 1: to do an episode on that, because that's insane to
20:00
Speaker 1: think about. The second case is the Delphi murders. Back
20:05
Speaker 1: on February 13th, 2017, best friends Libby German, 14, and
20:10
Speaker 1: Abby Williams, 13, set off on a walk along the
20:13
Speaker 1: Menon High Bridge Trail in Delphi. The next day, their
20:17
Speaker 1: bodies were found in a wooded area less than half
20:19
Speaker 1: a mile off the trail. Before they were killed, Libby
20:23
Speaker 1: had managed to capture a man believed to be the
20:25
Speaker 1: killer in her cell phone. In a chilling video, the
20:28
Speaker 1: man is heard telling them, guys, down the hill. This October,
20:32
Speaker 1: there was finally a break in that case. as a
20:35
Speaker 1: local man was arrested and charged with the murders of
20:38
Speaker 1: the two teens. Now remember, Richard Allen was already known
20:41
Speaker 1: to them. It was a filing error for an employee
20:45
Speaker 1: from the FBI that gave Richard Allen a community unable
20:52
Speaker 1: to recover. Living in Indianapolis, Indiana, close to the towns
20:56
Speaker 1: where both the Speedway and Delphi murders took place, Ms.
21:00
Speaker 1: Kane and Mr. Greenlee have seen firsthand the impact unsolved
21:03
Speaker 1: murders can have on a community. It's harmful and traumatic
21:08
Speaker 1: for the community as it can spread paranoia, says Ms. Kane.
21:11
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter if the case is five years old,
21:14
Speaker 1: like the Delphi murders, or 40 years old, like the
21:17
Speaker 1: Burger Chef murders, says Ms. Greenlee. It's really devastating to
21:22
Speaker 1: the families. If you lose someone you love, it doesn't
21:25
Speaker 1: matter if it was yesterday or last week or 40
21:29
Speaker 1: years ago. If you don't have answers, especially if it
21:32
Speaker 1: happens in a small town, as it's always in the
21:34
Speaker 1: back of people's minds, he says. So these small town
21:38
Speaker 1: murders always hit different for me. I grew up in
21:41
Speaker 1: a big city. I was born in New York, lived
21:43
Speaker 1: there for a portion of my young life, and then
21:46
Speaker 1: I moved to Las Vegas. So I've always lived in
21:49
Speaker 1: a big city, a metro area, where these kinds of murders,
21:52
Speaker 1: not for people, but murders in general, you're used to
21:56
Speaker 1: them not getting solved. But in a small town like this,
22:00
Speaker 1: It has to shake the whole ass community. Everybody meets
22:03
Speaker 1: up at the diner. You know, they're all going to
22:05
Speaker 1: lunch at the same place. That kind of small town
22:07
Speaker 1: feel and something like this can really rock that whole
22:11
Speaker 1: entire atmosphere that you get in those small towns. You
22:18
Speaker 1: go to the store and see people and before you
22:20
Speaker 1: know it, you wonder if someone in the store had
22:23
Speaker 1: something to do with it. Miss Kane adds, people see
22:26
Speaker 1: their hometowns being thrust in a new light. The murder
22:29
Speaker 1: becomes what the town is known for. Indeed, before the
22:33
Speaker 1: murders of teenage best friends Libby and Abby, Delphi was
22:36
Speaker 1: barely on the map. Now it's a town whose name
22:39
Speaker 1: is forever synonymous with the horrific crime. I'd be a
22:43
Speaker 1: liar if I told you I knew anything about Delphi
22:45
Speaker 1: before these murders. And the only thing I knew about
22:48
Speaker 1: Moscow for the most part was that the Idaho Vandals
22:51
Speaker 1: played there. Besides that, I had no idea about the
22:54
Speaker 1: town or the city. I never gave Moscow, Idaho a
22:57
Speaker 1: second thought. But once something like this happens, it really
23:01
Speaker 1: puts everything into frame. And when you start looking at
23:04
Speaker 1: these small towns and these small communities, it's obvious that
23:09
Speaker 1: the overarching effects of all of this, it's very traumatic.
23:16
Speaker 1: Fears are growing that Moscow will soon become the same.
23:19
Speaker 1: It had long been known as a college town with
23:22
Speaker 1: the University of Idaho students making up around half of
23:25
Speaker 1: the 25,000 residents, not to mention the character, of the
23:29
Speaker 1: small safe border town. Residents of Moscow have told the
23:33
Speaker 1: independent of their fears that if the killer or killers
23:37
Speaker 1: of the four students isn't caught soon, the toll on
23:39
Speaker 1: the community will only escalate. And I talked about this
23:44
Speaker 1: pretty much when it first started. The economic impact of
23:46
Speaker 1: something like this is ungodly for these people. When the
23:51
Speaker 1: whole town is based on college kids and college kids
23:54
Speaker 1: are in fear of their lives, well, it's going to
23:56
Speaker 1: have an effect on the economy while it's perfectly understandable
24:03
Speaker 1: that the public wants a quick resolution in shocking murder
24:06
Speaker 1: cases professor David Carter a criminologist who has studied police
24:11
Speaker 1: clearance rates says this often doesn't match up with the
24:14
Speaker 1: reality of police work the more expansive the crime and
24:17
Speaker 1: crime scene the longer it takes to investigate I understand
24:21
Speaker 1: the community Need and social media need, he tells The Independent.
24:26
Speaker 1: We want to know what happened. We want to know
24:28
Speaker 1: who the suspect is. I will say this. He's right
24:32
Speaker 1: in most cases. But this is very different than usual
24:34
Speaker 1: because of the resources that are being pounded into this.
24:39
Speaker 1: Clearing homicides. However, he says a case like the Idaho
24:43
Speaker 1: murders has numerous elements that police need to work through
24:47
Speaker 1: slowly and deliberately to get things right. A large crime scene,
24:52
Speaker 1: extensive blood at the murder site, and multiple victims. Then,
24:56
Speaker 1: there's all the usual elements of police work. Interviewing witnesses,
25:00
Speaker 1: searching for surveillance footage, and cross-referencing information between different evidentiary sources.
25:07
Speaker 1: So that's what they're doing behind the scenes. They're building
25:10
Speaker 1: this whole entire picture... that they can work off of,
25:14
Speaker 1: of what happened, who might have done it, and all
25:17
Speaker 1: of the different movements made by these kids on the
25:21
Speaker 1: day leading up to their murders. It's incredibly time-consuming to
25:27
Speaker 1: do all this, Professor Carter says. The Moscow Police Department
25:31
Speaker 1: declined the independent's request for comment. It is definitely difficult,
25:36
Speaker 1: but you have a lot of resources at your fingertips
25:38
Speaker 1: if you're the Moscow Police Department right now. Resources you
25:41
Speaker 1: would never have even dreamed of previously. So, while it
25:47
Speaker 1: is an uphill climb, they certainly have all the gear
25:50
Speaker 1: that's needed to get to the summit. Idaho State Police
25:54
Speaker 1: say they are working around the clock in their mission
25:57
Speaker 1: to assist the Moscow Police as the departments examine more
26:02
Speaker 1: than at least 113 pieces of physical evidence as well
26:06
Speaker 1: as sifting through thousands of digital tips. An Idaho State
26:10
Speaker 1: Police spokesperson told The Independent, going through this mountain of
26:13
Speaker 1: information carefully and effectively will take time. We need the
26:18
Speaker 1: public to understand, unlike what is portrayed on television, complex
26:22
Speaker 1: investigations take time and resources, the agency wrote in a statement.
26:27
Speaker 1: Investigators comb through thousands of pieces of evidence, tips, leads,
26:31
Speaker 1: and digital media to understand the crime and capture the
26:34
Speaker 1: individual responsible. investigators keep an open mind and no option
26:39
Speaker 1: is out of the question when they investigate leads. So
26:43
Speaker 1: that is what happens. And if it was just the
26:46
Speaker 1: Moscow police department and the Idaho state police department here,
26:50
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, they're definitely up against it. But
26:53
Speaker 1: with all of the other resources, I mean, you have
26:56
Speaker 1: to make some progress here. You would think, right? Having
26:59
Speaker 1: all of these resources, unless of course there's really no
27:03
Speaker 1: evidence to go on. And if that's the case, Well,
27:06
Speaker 1: we're back at square one. Despite the complicated nature of
27:12
Speaker 1: the case, there may be one detail about the Moscow
27:14
Speaker 1: Police Department that gives those searching for justice in the
27:17
Speaker 1: Idaho murders concern. Police there tend to do far worse
27:22
Speaker 1: than their counterparts across the state in solving crimes. And
27:26
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about this in the morning update.
27:30
Speaker 1: It's not confidence-inducing. Up until the student killings, There hadn't
27:36
Speaker 1: been a murder in Moscow since 2015, so it's difficult
27:40
Speaker 1: to compare the department's homicide record to the other agencies
27:44
Speaker 1: around the state and country. However, generally speaking, Moscow police
27:48
Speaker 1: only cleared about a quarter of Group A crimes between
27:52
Speaker 1: 2016 and 2021, according to the Independence Analysis of State Data,
27:58
Speaker 1: a broad category which includes everything from murder to theft.
28:03
Speaker 1: The state average during this same period was a clearance
28:05
Speaker 1: rate over 50%. So is somebody going to ask the
28:09
Speaker 1: chief about that? I mean, it's a valid concern. And
28:14
Speaker 1: people out there who are looking at what's going on,
28:16
Speaker 1: you know, they look at the numbers and they see this.
28:19
Speaker 1: The numbers don't lie, right? So you're clearing less than
28:23
Speaker 1: half of what the rest of the state's clearing? Yeah.
28:28
Speaker 1: Talk about not having much confidence. More broadly, clearance rates
28:33
Speaker 1: in homicides have been declining since the 1980s when police
28:37
Speaker 1: solved closer to 70% of murders according to federal data. Imagine?
28:43
Speaker 1: Look where we are now with all the technology we
28:45
Speaker 1: have and look where we were in the 1980s. How
28:49
Speaker 1: is it that the clearance rate gets worse when the
28:52
Speaker 1: technology gets better? Explanations for this decline range from crimes
28:57
Speaker 1: increasingly being committed between strangers rather than associates, to the
29:02
Speaker 1: rise in gun violence, to police being more accountable and
29:05
Speaker 1: less likely to stitch together flimsy charges than in the past.
29:10
Speaker 1: The reasons are multifaceted, said Mr. Hargrove of the Murder
29:13
Speaker 1: Accountability Project. The number one reason is a lack of resources.
29:17
Speaker 1: Places where police simply don't have enough people or enough
29:20
Speaker 1: investment or crime scene technicians are much less likely to
29:24
Speaker 1: clear murders. So we know that that's not the case here.
29:27
Speaker 1: We know that there's a ton of resources and a
29:30
Speaker 1: ton of investigators working the case. As a rule of thumb,
29:36
Speaker 1: a detective should be assigned no more than four or
29:39
Speaker 1: five homicides a year. Unfortunately, the reality is a lot
29:42
Speaker 1: of cities can't follow those guidelines as they don't have
29:46
Speaker 1: the people. It's as simple as that. It's unsurprising, then,
29:49
Speaker 1: that the data shows the murders that take place in
29:52
Speaker 1: rural communities where fewer crimes are generally committed are more
29:56
Speaker 1: likely to be solved than murders in urban areas. As
30:00
Speaker 1: far as Ms. Boebertz is concerned, one of the main
30:03
Speaker 1: reasons many murders, including her cousins, have gone unsolved is
30:06
Speaker 1: that the laws work for the perpetrator, not the victim.
30:10
Speaker 1: There are so many hoops you have to jump through
30:12
Speaker 1: and a lot of steps that I don't think a
30:14
Speaker 1: lot of people are aware of, she says. That's why
30:16
Speaker 1: she is calling for legislation to be passed which would
30:19
Speaker 1: allow law enforcement to collect the DNA of homicide suspects.
30:24
Speaker 1: Whatever the reason for declining clearance rates, it's not a
30:27
Speaker 1: universal phenomenon. And it really comes down to investigators, for
30:32
Speaker 1: me anyway. When you have good homicide police, good detectives
30:35
Speaker 1: who know what they're doing, you're going to have a
30:37
Speaker 1: better clearance rate because they know how to track these leads.
30:40
Speaker 1: They know what they're doing. Some police outfits still solve
30:46
Speaker 1: nearly all their murder cases. So communities are right to
30:49
Speaker 1: expect a swift and professional response from police when a
30:53
Speaker 1: killing occurs. According to Charles Walford, professor in the Department
30:57
Speaker 1: of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Maryland
31:01
Speaker 1: College Park. That variation tells us something important, he told
31:06
Speaker 1: the Marshall Project earlier this year. It says that it's
31:09
Speaker 1: not inevitable that there will be low-level clearance rates. This
31:13
Speaker 1: may offer hope to the grieving families and community of
31:15
Speaker 1: Moscow as the investigation enters its sixth week. And the
31:22
Speaker 1: one thing that Moscow definitely has going for it that
31:25
Speaker 1: a lot of these other places didn't is how many
31:27
Speaker 1: people are here and how much money and resources are
31:30
Speaker 1: being poured in. Because without that, you have no shot.
31:35
Speaker 1: Hopes for Moscow. Just as doubts in the ability of
31:38
Speaker 1: law enforcement reached a boiling point, investigators revealed what appears
31:42
Speaker 1: to be the biggest break in the case so far.
31:45
Speaker 1: An unidentified car, A white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra was spotted
31:51
Speaker 1: near the student's home in the early hours of November 13th,
31:55
Speaker 1: around the time that the four victims were killed. Investigators
31:59
Speaker 1: are looking to speak to the occupant or occupants of
32:02
Speaker 1: the vehicle and are urging the public to come forward
32:05
Speaker 1: with any information. It might just be the missing piece
32:09
Speaker 1: of the puzzle, police said. Whether it takes a week
32:11
Speaker 1: or a year, neither the Moscow police nor the families
32:15
Speaker 1: of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin
32:20
Speaker 1: are giving up. We're going to get our justice, Gonsalves' father,
32:23
Speaker 1: Steve Gonsalves, told an audience at a community vigil earlier
32:27
Speaker 1: this month. We're going to figure stuff out. This community
32:30
Speaker 1: deserves that. Well, folks, that's a pretty sobering look at
32:35
Speaker 1: the clearance rates and how a lot of the murders
32:37
Speaker 1: around the country are going unsolved. So when people have
32:41
Speaker 1: criticism of the investigation or of the police, a lot
32:45
Speaker 1: of times it's valid. Now, of course, there are people
32:48
Speaker 1: who are just crazy and they hate the police. They
32:50
Speaker 1: hate the FBI and they have an ax to grind.
32:54
Speaker 1: But when you have valid criticism of an investigation, and
32:58
Speaker 1: you're somebody who's fact-based and somebody who looks at the numbers,
33:01
Speaker 1: there is a legitimate argument to be made that a
33:05
Speaker 1: lot of these murders are going unsolved. So when people
33:08
Speaker 1: start talking about, you know, the murders might go unsolved
33:11
Speaker 1: up in Idaho, while I don't think we're there yet,
33:15
Speaker 1: it's certainly something that is a possibility. But one thing
33:18
Speaker 1: we can count on, the longer this goes, the closer
33:21
Speaker 1: it becomes to becoming a cold case. All right, folks,
33:26
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
33:28
Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci
33:31
Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find
33:40
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
33:46
Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box.