Latest / UK Column Radio / Celia Farber was one of the first, ever, to challenge the HIV/AIDS narrative

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Celia Farber was one of the first, ever, to challenge the HIV/AIDS narrative · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. Thank you for inviting me,
0:39
Jeremy, It's a real pleasure. We finally are here.
0:44
It took quite a while to get to this point, yeah.
0:47
Yeah, I was unwell. I had, I was, I, I was sick.
0:52
I had a sinusitis that dragged on.
0:54
You were very, very patient. It was took a long time to clear
0:57
it out. I've I live in Spain now and and
1:01
I thought I would bounce back health.
1:03
Why that you know, you can come to a new a new country, a new
1:06
place and something hits your system wrong.
1:09
Even though, even though it's wonderful, it's sun drenched.
1:13
It's you know, I'm very happy to be here.
1:15
But it is actually possible that I've encountered my old friend
1:21
mold again. I don't know.
1:23
I don't know how to check for mold in Spain.
1:27
Spain. I didn't know you were in Spain.
1:29
OK, that explains that explains a bunch of a bunch of things.
1:33
Now how are you finding it? I've never been.
1:37
As an African, it's very difficult to go to to to go to
1:40
Europe. Schengen visa is not the easiest
1:42
to get. Right.
1:43
Right. I love it.
1:45
Am I? So my son moved here almost
1:49
eight years ago. He came here, came to Granada.
1:53
He fell in love with it and he just, he just moved to Granada.
1:58
And then three years ago he got married to his now wife, Paula.
2:04
And I was back and forth, back and forth.
2:08
And I would say that when I'm, when I, this might sound
2:12
strange, but I didn't exactly move to Spain.
2:15
I I, I one of the times I came to Spain, I just didn't go back
2:20
and my son said, Mom, can't you just stay?
2:22
And I was experiencing so many strange things.
2:25
I am essentially A targeted individual since many years and
2:29
things were just getting, I was just being hit with all kinds
2:32
of, you know, bizarre things happening in the States.
2:36
I didn't feel, I've never felt safe, but it felt more and more
2:39
like, so I feel like I almost defected to Spain.
2:43
I didn't move to Spain the way a proper person would like you
2:46
spend a year or two tying up all the loose ends and selling your
2:50
things and so forth. So it's it's it's all.
2:54
And this is a repeat of when I was 11, my mother took us to
2:58
Sweden in the middle of a of a very tumultuous divorce.
3:02
And she just told us we're not going back.
3:05
So I've thought about this. I think this is my ingrained in
3:08
me that, you know, you sort of you go to a country and then you
3:11
just stay there. So it has these elements of
3:15
yeah, like I feel like I to some extent defected and didn't plan
3:20
it very well. I absolutely am AII don't know
3:24
if this is the right word. Hispanophile at this point.
3:27
I just, I love so many things about the culture of the people.
3:31
I write about it sometimes or actually regularly on my sub
3:35
stack. I'm sort of in awe.
3:39
The language is coming rather slowly, but it's it's coming
3:42
along. But I've also noticed that not
3:47
noticed I've, I would say I've experienced that moving to a new
3:50
country later in life with a new language, new everything.
3:55
It's not like when you're watching videos online and just
3:58
because you find things more, more wonderful and the way
4:03
things ought to be, your whole system can sort of freeze up and
4:08
go into almost like a kind of a shock because nothing is
4:11
familiar. So I've experienced a lot more
4:14
of a, of an adjustment period than I had wanted, including
4:20
things like a return of some of my fatigue symptoms, which have
4:26
been battling for many years. So that's, that's a whole part
4:30
of my life and has been for the last 15 years.
4:33
I started out writing about other people's disease, as it
4:36
were. AIDS is the one I'm most known
4:38
for. And then I myself became felled
4:42
with chronic illness for many, many years.
4:45
So I'm I'm super fascinated by that whole subject and right now
4:51
I'm in a good place. My latest mini obsession is
4:58
intramuscular B12, which I started to take on the advice of
5:07
a friend and it turned everything around in days.
5:11
So I, yeah, we're not talking about, you know, health hacks
5:17
right now, but only to say when you and I first started
5:20
communicating, my energy was just really bad.
5:24
And now I'm on the upswing. Intramuscular B12.
5:28
Hang on, hang on, hang on. I've never heard of that.
5:32
So there's sublingual B12, there's B12 capsules, it's just
5:36
you inject yourself with with B12 in the arm and the leg.
5:41
Why inject yourself as opposed to consumers?
5:44
Because that's the only OK, so it turns out all right, I'll go
5:47
ahead and I'll be brief, But here's the deal with with B12 as
5:51
I understand it so far. So I, I have come to understand
5:56
recent in recent weeks that you can be beat.
6:00
You can be severely B12 deficient, even though you eat
6:05
meat. So I was a carnivore for years.
6:09
I'm not not really a carnivore anymore, I'm not against it, but
6:13
I just it wasn't working for me as well nearly when I came to
6:18
Spain. So I started including some
6:21
fruits and vegetables. It's also very boring.
6:23
Yeah, let's face it, it is. It is.
6:28
And to get depressed by the same way a prisoner would get
6:32
depressed, right If it's the same food every day, that's not
6:35
good for your health either to. Just be so depressed like.
6:39
Really. I can never eat an apple,
6:41
really. So there's something called
6:47
pernicious anemia, which I now think may have been what I had.
6:50
And that comes from having, to put it simply, digestive
6:55
problems, gut problems, which is, of course, the Nexus of
6:58
virtually everybody's health problems.
7:01
So I definitely had that. I had, you know, a mercury
7:04
assault as a child, 11 mercury fillings put in when I was 11
7:09
years old. When we moved to Sweden, I, I
7:11
had just tons of problems. So I had a big clue about a year
7:15
and a half ago I tried to donate blood in New York and there's a
7:19
child who was getting a cancer surgery and his mom wanted non
7:24
vaccinated blood, non COVID vaccinated blood.
7:28
So I went to the clinic and lo and behold, they rejected me for
7:32
having low platelets. And I thought what, how on earth
7:35
can I can I be anemic when I'm a carnivore?
7:38
So that's when I should have done a deep dive into the
7:42
possibility I had pernicious anemia.
7:44
So I haven't been properly diagnosed, but I'm working with
7:49
a woman in the UK who does consultations and you tell her
7:54
your symptoms, she sends the B12 and if you feel a lot better you
8:00
probably did have AB12 deficiency.
8:02
So. Yeah, diet is for me one of the
8:07
most important topics actually, because if if you wake up
8:11
feeling rubbish then very little else matters.
8:16
Right, exactly. I, I, I was right there for I
8:21
don't, I don't want to count the years, 15 years spending
8:25
probably 85% of my time just trying to feel OK, just trying
8:31
to feel better, endlessly researching, spending every last
8:35
dollar I came across. And this is after I'm already
8:39
exiled from journalism, not making a regular income.
8:41
So I fell into this kind of underworld almost of, of being
8:47
ill, not knowing what was wrong with me, not knowing really the
8:52
whole really the subject that brings us together.
8:56
You know, what makes us sick? What does diet have to do with
9:01
it? What is environment, air,
9:04
technology, everything. Like what is actually making me
9:07
sick? And this question I don't
9:09
actually think feel like we ever fully resolved it in the AIDS
9:14
camp. And it was just as tricky to
9:16
resolve it for myself. It's very individual and it's
9:22
very and it's not, it's not the sum of its parts.
9:25
Often people, you know, when you feel like I'm eating like a St.,
9:30
I'm doing all the right things and you can still there's
9:32
something you're missing, you know?
9:36
Your background, I mean in, in, in writing and research, I mean
9:43
from what I discovered is essentially HIV AIDS.
9:47
I mean, that's what that's what you're known for.
9:50
That's. What I'm known for, yeah.
9:52
Yeah, but here's the thing, Diet is intricately linked to that.
9:57
Here in South Africa, as you most likely know, was the huge
10:01
ARV rollout that happened in the mid 2000s.
10:07
The, the president at the time, Todd Mbeki and his health
10:10
minister were, were trying to tell the population to change
10:16
the diet to become healthier. And this was laughed at and it
10:20
was mocked. And of course he was removed as
10:22
the president and he was replaced by Jacob Zuma, who then
10:25
had the largest Arrow V rollout, I think in South African
10:28
history. What did they say nothing about,
10:32
about diet? They just said take these drugs
10:36
and, and, and, and keep taking them basically until, until you
10:40
die. And and and those drugs which
10:44
are effectively chemotherapy drugs, make you sicker and
10:47
sicker and sicker. What you know, OK, wow, you
10:54
where do I begin? So.
10:56
Sorry, I was what I was doing is I was creating the Segway there
10:59
because you were talking about diet and for me diet is so
11:01
intricately linked to to HIV AIDS.
11:04
Absolutely. So in 2000, actually it really
11:09
began in 1999 when Thabo Mbeki did this amazing thing and stood
11:16
up. We were jubilant.
11:20
We who's we dissenters against HIV theory and we had been at it
11:28
since 1987. Is I'm a first.
11:32
I was a first generation HIV dissenter.
11:35
Nobody also. I think.
11:37
Dave, Dave Resnick came along. Yeah.
11:39
Joan Shenton in the UK. So 1987 is where I usually start
11:44
the clock, because that's when Peter Duesberg's piece First
11:47
Broadside against It All, comes out in the journal Cancer
11:51
Research. That's when the war in earnest
11:54
kicks off between him and them, and between journalists who
12:00
covered it. I was one of the first ones by
12:03
just a strange fluke being either in the right place at the
12:07
right. Time or the wrong.
12:08
Place at the wrong time. But I I was I was at Spin
12:13
magazine and it was a rock magazine that favoured contrary
12:19
and investigative journalism. And I read about it in the New
12:24
York native went running in you know, we got to cover this
12:28
story. I won't go into all the details.
12:31
I've I've done it about, you know, who said yes and who said
12:33
no, but suffice to say I I had the full backing in the end of
12:37
the publisher of Spin magazine. So we stayed on that story for
12:40
10 solid years and the dissident international dissident
12:44
community was growing and growing.
12:46
A lot of luminaries, it seemed now looking back like the the
12:51
top people in every field joined the opposition to gallows
12:56
preposterous HIV so-called theory and and and thought she
13:01
was, you know, the silent godfather behind the scenes
13:04
pulling the strings, terminating funding for anything, anything
13:10
and anybody who stepped one iota outside of doctrinaire orthodox
13:16
hyper, I might call it like Lenin, Leninist AIDS HIV theory,
13:21
which was HIV by itself with no other contributing factors is
13:26
the single and sufficient cause of AIDS.
13:28
And anybody who dares stray in the direction of suggesting
13:34
otherwise must be punished as a counter revolutionary force that
13:39
has to be removed as a threat to AIDS research which was a
13:45
revolutionary. It was a, it was a cult, it was
13:49
a a huge money laundering operation.
13:51
It was a psyop. You know lots of words I could
13:53
use to describe it. But when Tamil Mbeki came out
13:57
and I remember it like it was yesterday, we all felt
14:02
liberation was imminent. That surely a head of state of
14:06
his, especially with his political pedigree and of his
14:09
stature, how much he was respected, that it was going to
14:13
be a Berlin Wall moment for us. Everybody was going to
14:15
understand, you know. And then he had the the
14:19
conference. I was there in Pretoria.
14:21
We journalists were not. Allowed.
14:24
Yeah, the one that fell apart. The one that fell apart, like
14:27
everything fell apart. And now looking back, it's like,
14:30
how, how could we be so naive? Well, I mean, I, I, I admire him
14:36
enormously. And what you're, what you're
14:39
talking about was so, so insanely politicized, the matter
14:47
of food and nutrition. We were treated, all of us.
14:51
And Mbeki and his health minister, our mutual friend
14:57
Anthony Brink, used to try to teach me how to pronounce her
15:00
name. Mantu mantu shablalam samang.
15:05
Thank you. I want to attempt to repeat
15:08
that. I'm I even I stumbled there?
15:14
She, she was, I mean, women were always more, more viciously
15:19
targeted. My memory is that she was
15:22
essentially bullied into sickness and, and her early, her
15:25
premature death. The AIDS activists in South.
15:29
So we have AIDS activists in America and they're pretty
15:32
awful. Your AIDS activists were of a
15:35
different caliber altogether. The Zaki Akhmat crowd.
15:40
They were ultra and you'll stop me if I'm getting any of this
15:45
wrong, but revolutionary Marxism fused with.
15:50
I've met Zaki. OK.
15:52
And for them any talk about food or nutrition or clean water?
15:57
Water was. You get laughed at.
16:00
Well, much worse. I think they treated it like you
16:04
were the absolute Antichrist. You were the because what was
16:07
the cherished? What was the what was the cult
16:10
centred on? It was centred on ARVs, as you
16:13
said, it was centred on access to the most poisonous drugs
16:17
imaginable and their and and then you had people like coming
16:24
out of the apartheid fight, like the amazing and I, I knew him.
16:29
I I loved him. I miss him.
16:31
Doctor Sam Shongo. Who?
16:34
Always talked about who is, you know, an advisor to Thabo Mbeki
16:39
and he said what has happened to your heads in the apartheid
16:44
fight? 50% in that in the apartheid
16:47
era, 50% of black South African children were dead by the age of
16:51
five. In other words, they swept away
16:55
all of these issues of poverty, malnutrition, death, sickness
17:01
and death, and in comes AIDS and now everything is HIV.
17:06
They the AIDS actions. Yeah, but sorry, I, I don't mean
17:09
to interrupt, but but Mbeki said that, he said he said AIDS was a
17:11
disease of poverty. Exactly.
17:13
And then you had the radical Marxist faction in your country,
17:17
the Akhmat faction, the revolutionary Marxist faction
17:20
demonizing that. I mean that's a real weird
17:24
inversion that the Marxist faction would demonize the
17:31
connection between poverty, malnutrition and illness for
17:34
black S Africans in post apartheid South Africa.
17:37
Like it couldn't get any more bizarre.
17:40
But that would that was that was.
17:42
And then the whole global left ish left of centre kind of
17:49
highbrow media piled on and Becky in the most vile, racist,
17:56
derogatory terms. You know, the way they attacked
18:00
him. It was breathtaking.
18:03
People who didn't live through this would never believe it.
18:05
How, how, how how mean and vicious and surreal it was.
18:15
It was, it was surreal. There were no discussions about,
18:18
yes, well, of course clean water matters and poverty and we have
18:21
to talk about these things. It really was as though because
18:24
they knew, because they, the, the, the globalist powers that
18:29
be knew that this was a slippery slope, right?
18:32
This is a a portal to the real questions.
18:36
Do do do. Viruses exist.
18:39
Do viruses cause disease? Is contagion real?
18:42
Because this is their entire multi trillion dollar money
18:46
laundering apparatus and social control super, super plan.
18:51
And they're they're all in on it, right?
18:53
So we could not figure out at the time, why are they so
18:56
vicious? They hated us so much, you know,
19:00
and now and then when COVID broke out, I mean, I don't mean
19:04
broke out as an illness. I mean descended as a as.
19:08
An event. Happened.
19:09
Yeah, it started to make sense. But this, this is the thing,
19:14
Celia, and This is why chatting about HIV AIDS suddenly in, in
19:21
my view seems more relevant now because it the COVID thing was,
19:26
was almost like a mirror image of the AIDS thing.
19:30
I mean, I've got Becky's 2001 AIDS report here in front of me
19:35
and on page. Is it 16 or 17?
19:37
I can't see here the the team that wrote the report advised
19:43
against PCR tests and look at us.
19:47
Yeah, we are post COVID. Yes, yeah.
19:52
In fact, you anybody hearing this, you can find a transcript
19:58
of at least half the conference, the Pretoria conference, on
20:02
David Raznick's website. Have you ever seen that
20:05
document? I've got all the videos also of
20:07
that event. You do.
20:10
You. Have the video.
20:12
Wow, OK, I didn't. Know that, but you can't.
20:14
It's not really watchable because it's all broken and the
20:16
audio doesn't work and it's not synced correctly and all that
20:19
sort of stuff. But nonetheless, this is a very
20:22
important piece. Of history.
20:24
It's a very important piece of history.
20:26
And I years after it was all said and done, I actually found
20:31
there was a an author. I have no idea his name or the
20:34
title of his book. I just remember coming across it
20:37
and he was writing some kind of he wrote some kind of biography
20:42
of Mbeki and he he put it in there.
20:45
Maybe he didn't know what he was putting what what it was.
20:50
But I came upon the fact that after the ARV roll out, no
20:55
surprise to people like us, the deaths skyrocketed.
21:03
In other words, the ARV. Remember how they used to say
21:06
that the HIV, well, you weren't maybe around for this debate at
21:11
that time, but what they were acute, they had a very precise
21:14
number. They always told us that we had
21:16
killed, was it 330,000 S Africans?
21:23
Can that be right? Or was it 33?
21:26
Thousand, that is correct, yeah. 33.
21:29
It's it's somewhere close to 400,000.
21:31
That AIDS denialism had killed and that turns out, and I can
21:36
dig this up for you or maybe you already have it, it turns out
21:41
that was pretty much exactly the number that had that died in
21:44
excess after the ARV roll out in South Africa, exactly as we
21:48
said. Nobody brings up yeah, in fact,
21:53
the the the mortality, overall mortality in South Africa around
21:59
2000 and six 2007, I can't remember precisely which year
22:03
was a lot higher than any of the COVID years.
22:08
Yes, we suppose, and we said. Yet we supposedly had a deadly
22:11
pandemic. Yeah, yeah.
22:14
I mean, and the I I saw recently Zaki Akhmat in an interview with
22:19
Christiane Amanpour, my blood just boiled, man.
22:23
I was like, that guy is still at his, in a position of power and
22:29
influence. Here we go, I've got it in front
22:31
of me. It was around 2005 and 2006 when
22:34
the Arrow V rollout occurred and and here we have the highest
22:38
mortality in South Africa in the last 25 years.
22:42
Thank you. That's what I'm talking about.
22:45
Yeah. And all the scalps, all the
22:49
people who were destroyed and even killed over this in that
22:53
enormous brawl about, about South Africa.
22:59
It's like when they do these attacks, these OPS, you know,
23:02
the train leaves the station and it's after the train leaves the
23:06
station when it's you, you got to go back.
23:08
And then nobody goes back and says, well, what happened with
23:10
all that? What happened?
23:11
What happened after the fact? And I none of us really
23:15
understand what became of Mbeke's fighting spirit.
23:19
Maybe he was completely as I certainly was.
23:23
You know, you lose your capacity to make a sound to do anything
23:28
because there's you've you've endured so much ultra violence,
23:31
right, that it just feels pointless.
23:34
But he he would be in a prime position to be vindicated.
23:39
But he probably knows, you know, these people are so vicious and
23:43
irrational and unfair that it's it's no point and media and.
23:48
Yeah, but he was also silenced by the ANC because remember,
23:51
he's a, he's a, he's a part of the party.
23:53
Yeah, yeah. You understand all that a lot
23:56
better than I, I, I imagine as much.
23:58
But but does he, do you think there's any kind of process of
24:03
of his rehabilitation, even if it's behind the scenes?
24:06
Do you think anybody's trying to rehabilitation in South Africa
24:11
for the fact that he was right, He was right to do everything he
24:14
did with? Well, he spoke about, he spoke
24:16
about it. Was it a year or two ago?
24:19
Very recently, Yeah, he spoke. He spoke at A at a university.
24:25
And very quickly after that the ANC again tried to do quote UN
24:30
quote damage control. Oh, so he's.
24:32
Totally. Yeah, there's no chance.
24:35
Then it's the ANC. Yeah.
24:37
But I I also have gotten the sense that S Africans, black S
24:42
Africans, in any event that I saw online in many Mbeke
24:46
contexts, were desperately wishing he was still the
24:50
president. Yes, but that's a that's a very
24:55
complex comment because. But I mean, he had.
24:59
He had the love of the people it they, the media, you know, the
25:02
AIDS Inc factions wanted everybody to believe that all S
25:06
Africans were embarrassed by this president and what he did
25:10
with HIV AIDS. But whenever it doesn't.
25:12
Still to this day, he's considered an embarrassment by
25:16
the media. That's appalling.
25:19
But I mean, Celia, this is this is what your work has been all
25:22
about. It's it's, it's been you've been
25:26
pushing back against one of the most powerful cogs in the public
25:33
health machine. I know.
25:38
Yeah. I was, I, I had no idea when I,
25:43
when I began. I, I thought it was fascinating.
25:46
I thought it was. I thought we all thought
25:49
resolution, victory was always imminent, right around the
25:53
corner. We were always, you know, one
25:55
paper, one scientist, one revelation, when over and over
26:00
and over again we we came upon the fact that by themselves
26:06
should have torn down the whole ghastly thing and nothing put a
26:12
dent in it because it was designed to.
26:14
Be. Wrong and to keep flying because
26:18
it was a revolutionary doctrinaire money laundering
26:26
cult SIOP mind control MK Ultra, right?
26:30
We can throw all our words and it was all those things it was
26:34
and we mistook it. I want to say tragically for a
26:40
scientific and correctable like a juggernaut, but a juggernaut
26:47
that you could correct scientifically.
26:50
And you know, there went, there went my life because it was
26:55
untouchable and absolutely untouchable.
26:57
The only thing that got played out was violence against those
27:01
who countered it. So, you know, I've, I learned a
27:04
lot about that. I, I, I, I, I'm not saying that
27:10
I regret it and it's irrelevant whether I do or don't.
27:13
I'm just saying that to this day when people tinker with it
27:18
scientifically, I just feel so strongly.
27:23
For heaven's sakes, it wasn't a scientific matter or thing they
27:30
they used. They used science jargon to cast
27:36
all the spells that they cast. But you can't correct something
27:40
like this with corrective science.
27:45
It was just deep in the deepest organs and tissues and DNA of
27:50
the entire culture that good people knew.
27:53
HIV was the single and sufficient cause of AIDS.
27:56
It was as deep as what can we compare it to?
28:01
It took over as a like, let's say there's a legit debates
28:05
about diabetes, about nobody gets crazy like that about
28:09
diabetes, about heart disease. This was not an A normal
28:12
illness, not a normal. It was it was So you know, if I
28:16
say cult, that doesn't do it justice, and if I say psyop,
28:20
that doesn't do it justice. Maybe you have some words, but.
28:24
The thing is the same though. It's the same, but we need like
28:27
a, we need a term for what these it's are they are it's.
28:32
Frustrating also. They are Wrecking Ball, Wrecking
28:40
Ball, social engineering projects on such a grand scale
28:45
with so much money in them and through them and they create
28:50
entire, entire cultures that are paid off to support them.
28:56
So I do think my word revolution is an important word because
29:01
what happens when there's a revolution every, everything
29:06
changes very fast. So nothing that was believed 2
29:09
days ago counts anymore. It becomes necessary to kill
29:13
everybody who could threaten the revolution.
29:16
The revolution must survive. The revolutionaries, the most
29:22
they survive and anybody who says what is all you know, they
29:25
they get taken out and shot. So it was like a bloodless
29:29
revolution in biology starting in the United States.
29:32
So American biology, through this dark moment of Robert Gallo
29:37
announcing HIV was the cause of AIDS, was also simultaneously
29:42
destroyed. And those biologists,
29:44
virologists, real scientists and academics who saw it and
29:48
protested it. What I really covered was what
29:51
happened to them primarily. That's what I covered.
29:54
I didn't cover the about about every last scientific detail
29:59
this way that because I I, I was on the ground covering the
30:03
sociological nightmarish phenomenon of this whole thing.
30:08
Luke Montagne was his partner in crime and I think it was in the
30:11
1990s when he publicly said that HIV does not need to be the sole
30:19
cause of AIDS, and that has been largely severely suppressed,
30:25
that particular comment of his. Luke Montagne, I remember it
30:28
vividly. He came out in the very early
30:30
90s and he came out at a conference and he got behind a
30:35
scientist named Doctor Shai Ching Lo, who was who was
30:38
proposing that a mycoplasma could have something to do with
30:42
the development of AIDS. Montagna in relative innocence
30:48
came out and said, I think this is interesting.
30:50
I don't remember exactly what he said.
30:51
Again, for all of us, this was a huge moment.
30:54
I devoted one or more columns. I had a column, but it was
30:58
called Words from the Front that covered this war blow by blow.
31:01
That was a very big deal. They went ballistic berserk on
31:06
him. Oh, it was trying to remember
31:08
the detail. I mean, people denouncing him on
31:12
the spot, threatening to end the conference, storming out.
31:16
He got in a lot of immediate hot water again, as if he had lost
31:21
his mind. Lost his mind because they knew
31:24
if they gave a fraction of an inch to the opposition, it would
31:31
eventually potentially be game over.
31:34
So this is to me, I know I'm harping on it, but the climate
31:40
of viciousness is really what they perfected.
31:42
Like how to freak out so utterly and thoroughly as and how to
31:47
punish people so elaborately. That's kind of the untold story
31:51
of it all. So Montagne was, I would say,
31:56
shocked and pushed back on his heels, a little bit chastened.
32:01
You know, he he understood what could happen.
32:04
He understood he could be obliterated and they'd made an
32:06
example of Peter Dusberg and other reeled out of the closet
32:10
straight up dissidents. And I'm not going to accuse him
32:14
of any kind of cowardice or anything.
32:18
But he after that he he kind of spoke out of both sides of his
32:23
mouth. But they whatever backroom deals
32:25
they met, you know, And then it got into John Crudson's work on
32:29
whether Robert Gallo had misappropriated Montagne's
32:34
original sample. That kicked off the whole
32:37
nightmare. And so then it was in litigation
32:40
and everybody kind of made Luke Montagne into the, it was like
32:44
the black sheep and the white sheep.
32:45
So Gallo was the black sheep. So he sort of had to carry the
32:49
bag for, for an HIV theory. I don't think he ever believed
32:53
in the French, never said it was the cause of AIDS.
32:55
And then of course, he got the Nobel Prize.
32:57
So you see how it works. It was because Gallo had been
33:06
found guilty of scientific misconduct and fraud by the
33:10
whole John Dingell, John John Crudeson chapter.
33:14
So they couldn't really keep Bob Gallo in the race as the HIV
33:19
king. So it became it went to Montagne
33:22
and there was a lot of resentment against Gallo that
33:24
also got expressed as support for Luke Montagne, sort of white
33:28
knight, Dark Knight kind of thing.
33:30
You see what I'm saying? So he was always a little bit,
33:34
he was just not the kind of scientist who said, I know what
33:42
I know. I'm not backing down.
33:44
He wasn't one of those, but nor was he one of the dark one of
33:47
the bad guys. He and then I think his true
33:51
colors came out. I mean, what's the better, more
33:55
positive way to say true colors? His better angels came out
33:59
finally with COVID, he was able to speak a little more freely.
34:04
And all of the this is character, these are characters,
34:07
these are, these are like Shakespearean plays.
34:10
All of them, all of this is about ambition, greed, idealism.
34:18
That's why I was always fascinated by the the
34:20
characters, the scientists and the differences between them.
34:24
And I was interested in the good ones, not the bad ones.
34:26
I was interested in the ones who I was just fascinated by how
34:30
they could stand up and say what they, they felt.
34:33
It felt to me that even then, like you guys are like a dying
34:37
breed. You're not even going to be
34:38
around 1, you know, because what you're doing is going against
34:42
your own interests and all the money.
34:44
Everyone's saying you're crazy and awful and murderous, and
34:47
still you're saying it. You're seeing something that's
34:49
so important to you. And that was really inspiring to
34:54
me. Like, like if I was a nature
34:57
photographer, like, you know, oh, I want to photograph the
35:00
last, you know, snow leopards or something because they were very
35:05
fascinating and, and their story hasn't been told.
35:11
There were there were thousands of them.
35:13
Yeah, in your sub stack, you, you, you spoke recently about
35:19
the opposition and, and and the viciousness of it.
35:22
Yep, COINTELPRO. I don't know that much more
35:26
about COINTELPRO than the next person.
35:28
I just have seen it over and over and over again.
35:31
Where you get, you know it's the Trotsky phenomenon, right?
35:34
Like a, a, a, an assigned purity leader.
35:39
Revolutionary stands up against the the original Revolutionary
35:44
Guard starts throwing broken bottles.
35:47
All hell breaks loose. Everybody has to take sides.
35:49
It's, it's just, it's, it's an absolute standard feature of
35:53
every movement. Yeah, but I mean like in the no
35:56
virus thing it it's incredibly annoying, even if a lot of the
36:03
individuals perhaps might be on the right side of scientific
36:08
history. There is this type of militant
36:12
cult like thing. I don't know what the right term
36:16
is to to describe a lot of these people.
36:19
I'll, I'll mention Carrie Mullis and how he was trying to search
36:22
for the link between HIV and AIDS and suddenly I get people
36:25
saying to me he was a shill and all sorts of stuff.
36:28
And you can't speak about him at all because he believed in
36:31
viruses. And it just completely
36:33
dismantles any type of healthy discourse.
36:42
Yeah, let me take a deep breath and here's what I how I want to
36:46
say this. One of the strangest things
36:52
about this the So there's there's the HIV fight that
36:57
starts as a in 1987. And essentially that that war,
37:02
according to me, ends in 2008, the year Christine Maggiore
37:08
died. And right now don't have a lot
37:12
of time to I'll just say Christine, the death of one of
37:16
the leading figures of the HIV descent movement named Christine
37:19
Maggiore signalled for both sides the effective end of the
37:26
so-called it wasn't it, it was called the HIV, let's call it a
37:29
war. Some people called it the HIV.
37:31
So this is like round one, 1987 through 2008.
37:39
In 2020, after COVID, the thing, the questions roar back.
37:46
They come back around, especially PCR, because with
37:52
HIV, they didn't diagnose anybody with PCR.
37:54
But PCR was like a supportive tyrannical technology.
38:01
Now you have people really jumping out of their socks,
38:06
cottoning on. Many of them are very
38:10
outstanding and and doing a lot of great work.
38:13
I kind of want to avoid names, at least for the time being.
38:16
And so it Revs up into this. I would, I don't Lucy.
38:20
I want to kind of name it something.
38:21
It's like, it's like virus and causation and PCR study or
38:36
understanding Part 2. That's a very bad name for it.
38:39
What shall we call it? In other words, there was a war
38:42
that nobody heard of or knew of or was most of the people who
38:45
joined in round two never heard of what came before.
38:48
They just somehow cottoned on in 2020.
38:51
Like this makes no sense. How can somebody transmit a
38:55
disease if they're asymptomatic PCR, right?
38:58
So now there's like lots of people all over the world and
39:02
all kinds of channels and, and, and, and it was, it was amazing.
39:07
It was like a renaissance of the very questions that we were so
39:12
crucified and destroyed for forging all those years.
39:15
But what also happened was that there was a militant strand in
39:21
it, some of whom were around fractioning the original
39:26
movement, who came in as purifiers, radical, super
39:31
radical, revolutionary, you know, I call them Trotskyites,
39:35
who started to demand this purification of all the issues
39:39
and started to rubbish all the people who had come before, some
39:44
of whom I've described in the most unbelievably vicious,
39:50
unjust and abusive terms. And you know, I, I, I was, I was
39:58
one of them. There were many others.
39:59
And the attack on Carrie Mullis was was one of those.
40:03
Chapters and the whole thing that was so unbelievably
40:06
downright strange, you know, like you can look at somebody
40:11
just having sort of an an epileptic fit on a bus or
40:15
something like where is I mean, you know, and it's like what I
40:19
mean by that is it seemed like a a fit of of a fit of destruction
40:27
for the sake of destruction or, or defamation for the sake of
40:31
defamation. Like it became cool to just
40:35
attack and to show to some force out there that you're one of the
40:42
purests now. So they called themselves, they
40:46
called themselves no virus. They didn't call themselves
40:49
weirdly, they didn't talk. About the Perth group
40:51
particularly. Because it used to be there was
40:54
a battle between the Perth group and the Deuce Berg IANS and you
40:57
know, I could say a lot about that.
40:59
But in this new fight and this new purity, it felt synthetic to
41:05
me. It felt planted.
41:06
It felt like there were bad actors who had been planted
41:09
there to run this new script, which made absolutely no sense.
41:13
Here's what makes no sense, starting with this that people
41:17
should cotton on, as I say, to a matter that was, you know, like
41:21
the ground is soaked in other people's blood for all these
41:24
decades and people suddenly crop up and they're going to send
41:28
other people to the to the cornfield.
41:31
You know, that episode of Twilight Zone, the tyrant boy
41:34
sends people to the cornfield for for wrong thing.
41:37
That's what they were doing. That one is out.
41:39
That one is out. That one is.
41:40
And it's like, wait, but you guys just turned up.
41:43
Who are you? I never heard of you.
41:44
You aren't part of this. Back when we really could have
41:46
used you, back when we're all getting slaughtered out here.
41:50
But they had this self anointed, absolute vicious righteousness
41:58
that yeah, yes, you're damn right we are here now and we're
42:02
telling everybody who's good and who's bad and who's pure and
42:06
who's not. And it was so bizarre.
42:08
I could. Not even actually understand it
42:11
for a long time or. Or kind of deal with it.
42:14
Or write about it. And I don't like writing about
42:17
it. It makes me miserable.
42:21
What I would say to people who push that, who are decent but
42:26
are kool-aid, who have picked this up somewhere like, yeah,
42:30
Carrie Mullis was was bullshit and Peter Duesberg was no hero.
42:36
And they they believe in. Virus they're.
42:37
Just grifters. Yeah, they're just grifters.
42:41
Grifters wait Peter do I mean people whose all of whose money
42:46
was taken away Peter Duisburg was defunded by Anthony Fauci in
42:49
1980s have never received another federal sorry I could
42:53
get I got to stay calm OK what I would say I'm going to try to do
42:58
it calmly is if you weren't there with all due respect, you
43:03
don't understand what this war was about what was in it.
43:08
You're just here now in a in a very safe air conditioned field
43:13
with your little channels and you're talking, you're tinkering
43:16
with the science and you're really smart and you're really
43:19
kind of full of yourselves. But you do not understand what
43:22
it meant for, for example, Peter Duesberg to be on that mountain
43:28
facing like, for example, the AZT death train coming right at
43:33
him. This all of these multi multi
43:35
trillion dollar attacks coming and there was no such thing as
43:42
having your channel or your following or your sub stack or
43:46
bring. It was just punishment, in some
43:50
cases, death. So when I say people don't
43:53
understand what that war was about, they think like, oh,
43:55
Peter Duisburg was sitting around saying, well, you know,
43:57
retroviruses are really important, and I'm here to
44:00
represent. Don't ever take away my
44:02
retroviruses. He was the one who introduced
44:10
the very idea of opposing this mammoth force of Robert Gallo,
44:17
Anthony Fauci and The Who. And there was no such thing as
44:22
interfering with that spell before Peter Duesberg.
44:26
It was about, yes, causation, toxicity, transmission.
44:31
Duesberg was the first to say H AIDS is not a sexually
44:35
transmissible disease. So it's extremely reductionist
44:39
to say that he isn't in harmony with most of what the
44:44
contemporary post 2020 guys like, like Tom Cowan say.
44:49
There's so much and what he and the other dissidents forged that
44:54
is exactly in line with what they said, except that they
44:57
didn't dispatch entirely of the notion of the existence of these
45:01
putative entities. OK, But if you think that is
45:05
such a big deal, you don't understand what the battle was
45:08
about and how people were getting killed on, you know,
45:11
people having to poison their kids to death or or lose custody
45:15
of their kids. And Duisburg is sitting there,
45:17
like writing letters, testifying, showing up.
45:20
It was a blood battle. It was terrifying.
45:22
It was terrifying. A lot of people died.
45:24
I've friends who were murdered. So I get emotional about these
45:28
people who have like the luxury just to turn up now, you know,
45:34
until those people, they're, they're the, and the memory of
45:39
those people that that they're bullshit.
45:42
I, I sort of can't believe it from a spiritual perspective.
45:45
I can't believe being that uncharitable.
45:50
It's very arrogant. It's self important.
45:53
These purity tests are destructive.
45:56
They don't actually do anything good.
46:01
They think this is how purists think.
46:04
Purist revolutionaries think like we are the do you know how
46:09
many times we had purity cults in the HIV like this one came
46:13
along that they were always brand new and they came in all
46:16
of you are what you've done. OK, nice try, but you're
46:20
bullshit. But I have the purity angle and
46:22
I'm going to, you know, send them all into a cocktail.
46:26
I'm going to push them. This is grandiosity.
46:29
It is a gross misunderstanding of the depth, scope, and nature
46:34
of this evil that one is up against.
46:36
One is not up against. Virology 1 is up against an evil
46:43
system that wants to depopulate the world.
46:48
It's essentially the new world order and this is the blind
46:51
spot. It's actually way less stressful
46:55
to just deal with dispatching of virology if you're not taking
46:58
into account the actual political, ideological and
47:02
spiritual beast behind it all. Behind both of these things,
47:08
yeah. You briefly mentioned Delini
47:10
Papadopoulos. Most people don't know her name
47:14
and she did incredible work. She did incredible work and she
47:18
was a she was a lovely human being.
47:23
Sorry, I pronounced it Eleni, but how is it pronounced?
47:26
She was her. First name I I've always heard
47:28
Eleni Eleni Eleni. Yes, Eleni.
47:31
I want to explain. That the rift that happened and
47:36
then so the rift that happened then and then how it has mutated
47:41
into the present day rift. Around Eleni's work.
47:47
There is a commonly held view that was held by many HIV
47:53
dissidents at the time that Peter Duesberg had by not
48:00
accepting what Eleni, what Eleni and the Perth group were saying
48:04
that HIV's existence had not been proven.
48:07
They were always very careful not to say HIV does not exist,
48:10
but there's no proof of its existence.
48:13
To put it simply, Peter Duesberg came back and said I.
48:19
Think. It exists, but is harmless.
48:23
It's to each person to decide whether that is a, like
48:33
something worthy of, of a war, a divide that's worthy of, of a,
48:39
of, of a total split, or whether that's a fractional difference
48:45
for a person who is quote, UN quote, diagnosed as HIV positive
48:51
and told they're going to die. And that's really who we should
48:55
be focusing on. What's the difference to that
49:00
person? 1 camp is saying HIV exists but
49:05
is harmless. You don't need to worry about
49:08
it. It is not going to kill you.
49:11
And 1 camp is saying, in fact, there's no proof of its
49:13
existence. I feel that that becomes a very
49:19
esoteric, almost like ivory tower distinction.
49:22
I always felt that. I always felt that can we please
49:27
stay united and keep hostilities out?
49:33
I can't answer for or explain why Peter doesn't see Eleni's
49:39
case, but what began to happen was there was a a story that
49:44
grew that Peter had sabotaged Elainy's work by not recognizing
49:54
it. I know that she had a lot of
49:55
pain and anguish about it. She respected him, she loved
49:58
him. She did feel thwarted, rejected
50:02
by his inability to see what she was saying, and it caused a
50:09
tremendous and deep painful rift in the in the movement from
50:16
which we never recovered. And the HIV descent movement
50:21
crumbled along these lines. Now to see it flare up again in
50:27
an even more malignant form, which is also a historical
50:31
because the people jumping on the bandwagon now don't know the
50:35
history and aren't interested in the history.
50:38
But it's become fashionable to posit this point of purity as
50:47
the one pinnacle of saving the world.
50:52
If we dispatch of the notion of viruses existing, we'll say
50:58
we'll save the world, right? Everything will be fine.
51:02
But I, I, I argue that, that, that no, that that is to
51:06
willfully ignore the entirety of the violent apparatus built
51:14
around this whole thing. It's to suggest that all that is
51:19
required is a precise correction of what I call an esoteric
51:26
scientific difference. I think that issue is important
51:30
and they can battle it out and, and God bless them and good luck
51:33
to them. But it, it isn't going to help
51:36
people under, under, you know, caught in the death trap.
51:47
Yes. So they're different issues.
51:50
What are you trying to achieve, right?
51:52
Are you? Trying to get the trap?
51:55
Or are you trying to achieve scientific exactitude and
51:59
rightness and correctness in some place in another dimension?
52:04
I don't know. They are different.
52:07
Quests. They are, Celia, because if you
52:12
go around shouting viruses don't exist, what is it that you're
52:19
trying to achieve? Let's just say I agree with you.
52:24
Let's just say, OK, sure, I agree, virus don't exist.
52:28
What now? Well, it's, it's, it's, it's,
52:34
it's a very strange, it's a very strange piece of discourse
52:38
because it doesn't go anywhere. It's a very strange piece of
52:41
discourse. I would like to put on the table
52:46
the word and examine it very closely.
52:49
Their word exist. The word exist to exist.
52:56
I have argued and I argue that HIV and COVID, let's let's start
53:05
with HIV. It was brought into into being
53:13
not merely as a biological artifact or non artifact, but as
53:20
a massive spiritual attack made possible by diabolical
53:32
technologies that were created to in to induce and suggest its
53:41
presence. The so-called HIV tests and the
53:48
entire propaganda apparatus around HIV.
53:51
So I actually argue there was an it that exists.
53:56
It's like saying does a malevolent spirit exist?
54:00
If you can't see it and put it in a bottle and throw it over a
54:04
Cliff, it's still perturbing. And this gets into, are we
54:11
secular materialists or do we believe this is spiritual
54:16
warfare, which I do. So I think I had to fight.
54:22
We had to fight quote UN quote HIV as a diabolical,
54:30
technocratic, possessed idea and set of technologies that very
54:35
much existed because they made it exist.
54:38
It wasn't really going to help us that the IT didn't exist in
54:42
its purest form as a biological pathogen.
54:47
Again, I think it is to look away from the beast itself and
54:55
everything that the beast uses to crush people.
55:03
Do you think a lot of that is by emergence or by design?
55:12
I have come to believe it's by design.
55:17
So like infiltration? Yeah, I, I, I believe that our
55:21
that as a, as a so-called movement, our biggest mistake
55:26
was to never consider infiltration.
55:30
Hang on. Sorry.
55:30
See here. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
55:31
I'm going to jump in right there.
55:33
You've said movement a few times and I I kind of get
55:36
uncomfortable when you say movement.
55:38
I know. Because of.
55:40
Yeah. OK, OK, let me let me define it.
55:46
We're left with some words that I'm also uncomfortable with the
55:49
so-called HIV dissident movement.
55:57
So I don't mean to derail you, but it no but.
55:59
It's like people that came together in different countries
56:02
from all different walks of life and all different disciplines
56:05
who support. Collective.
56:08
Yeah, but see, that's the wrong it.
56:09
Yeah, Collective. Why?
56:12
Why it makes me feel awkward is because movement seems to
56:16
suggest that it's outside of of science.
56:20
Yeah, OK. It was very much a cyan
56:26
scientific battle, which was battling something that was
56:31
parascientific. Does that make sense?
56:36
One. 100%. They had introduced the
56:41
parascientific, and I said in Robert F Kennedy Junior's book,
56:48
The Real Anthony Fauci, that what made Fauci so dangerous as
56:53
a revolutionary, there's that word again, was that he took
56:56
American science, which up to that point could have been
57:00
called classical empirical. You prove things.
57:04
If it doesn't, if it's not proven, it gets thrown out.
57:06
Everybody agrees it has to be true, it has to be proven.
57:10
And he imbued it with this new thing, which, for lack of a
57:14
better word, I would call woke as a as a spiritual infection,
57:20
as an idea, an ideology, something Fauci could use and
57:23
did use masterfully. So now there was woke biology,
57:28
which the classical scientists were horrified by.
57:32
What are you talking? In other words, everybody gets
57:35
AIDS, everybody's at equal risk. It spreads like this.
57:39
And all of that was woke garbage.
57:42
But it flew because AIDS was not scientific.
57:45
It was not a normal disease. It was a an installed set of
57:51
revolutionary ideologies that were installed around notions of
57:58
public health, contagion, human intimacy.
58:01
This is all social engineering, according to me, but everybody
58:07
fought it where they fought it. And those who fight it, you
58:10
know, if only we had gotten it right, if only Duesberg had
58:13
gotten out of the way or bowed down to Eleni and the Perth
58:15
group, we could have. I sort of can't believe that's
58:19
even an argument or that anybody who has studied the any history
58:26
of violent overthrows and revolutions could think that
58:31
that would have saved the day. It's it's, it's totally baffling
58:36
to me. We've been fighting this HIV
58:40
AIDS information war since the 80s from back when they called
58:46
it grid and then they didn't like the word gay being included
58:49
in it, so they changed it. I mean just just on that.
58:54
Anybody who spends 30 seconds thinking about it, its so-called
58:57
origins should laugh the whole thing off.
58:59
I mean, it was this, this, this supposed virus that suddenly
59:05
didn't like gay men in New York nightclubs and at the same time
59:11
didn't like a group of black people in Africa.
59:16
The whole thing didn't make any sense.
59:18
And then they they took years to try and formalize some sort of
59:22
definition for it, if I if I have my understanding correct.
59:25
I think you just put your finger on something very important.
59:28
The whole thing didn't make any sense.
59:30
What if that's the actual attack?
59:34
What if that's the actual attack?
59:37
To introduce this is sort of gets into MK Ultra Monarch mind
59:41
control to, to, to break reality in people's minds, to get to
59:45
introduce this new grand scale gas lighting thing where things
59:50
don't have to make sense. That's why we went so
59:54
collectively and individually out of our minds because we were
59:57
the, you know, this doesn't make any sense and this isn't adding
1:00:00
up. And it, as I say it did, it
1:00:02
never put a dent in it. And so I want people to
1:00:05
understand that these things are built that way before they are
1:00:10
launched. They're built to not like
1:00:14
infinitely elastic. So HIV theory, such as it was.
1:00:20
Could be stretched, whatever happened that that did not make
1:00:23
any sense and did not add up. They just stretched it and it,
1:00:27
it swallowed it up, it accommodated it, it added some
1:00:30
new woke language and then presto, it was the new thing and
1:00:33
the new thing. So I'm not just saying that they
1:00:36
were dogmatic and had all the money and had all the violence.
1:00:41
I'm saying the whole thing that they were operating in was not a
1:00:44
thing that had any interest in being right or making sense
1:00:48
where we were, like that train had left the station.
1:00:53
And so now we're into something. What I'm invoking here is that
1:00:58
this is a characteristic of this whole era that we're in, if you
1:01:04
think about it, like inversion, confusion, gaslighting.
1:01:10
I mean, sending things down on our brains, telling us they are
1:01:15
happening and they are real that aren't even designed to make
1:01:19
sense until they fall apart. They they arrive as like your
1:01:25
brain gets so mangled trying to accept it or adopt it.
1:01:30
So that's, that's one of the characteristics of a cult,
1:01:33
right? Or of A and I think that part is
1:01:37
deliberate. But where they cook these things
1:01:40
up is, is another thing altogether, where they, in other
1:01:44
words, this thing was hatched somewhere, not just Gallo
1:01:48
standing there saying we have found the the probable cause of
1:01:51
AIDS in the United States government and all of that, but
1:01:54
the whole thing. So let's just talk about it for
1:01:58
a moment. People were overnight mass
1:02:02
induced to believe that a new deadly virus, in this case
1:02:08
retrovirus, had jumped species from an African green monkey.
1:02:16
This really is the origin theory.
1:02:18
I'm not joking. Via a Canadian flight attendant
1:02:24
that was written about in a book that was fiction by Randy
1:02:28
Schultz. And people were then induced to
1:02:34
believe that this bugaboo, this it was anywhere, could be
1:02:40
anywhere, could be on a toilet seat, could be on a salad leaf.
1:02:44
Gay men would come home for Thanksgiving.
1:02:47
And after they left, their mothers would like throw the
1:02:49
dishes out, you know, so, so it really was the dawn, the
1:02:53
introduction of terrorizing, terrorizing, baseless contagion
1:02:57
theory for the modern age. And what a toy for them.
1:03:01
Imagine what they could do with this new evil toy because they
1:03:07
knew somehow that there's something in the human psyche
1:03:12
that responds to these ideas of contagion with tremendous force,
1:03:17
with tremendous fear. And then to think that all that
1:03:23
all those decades of blood, sweat and tears from all the
1:03:27
dissident movement, sorry, all the dissident configurations in
1:03:31
different countries, including yours, your country made a great
1:03:34
contribution that all of that went into the the gutter.
1:03:42
And COVID comes along and it's even more batshit and surreal
1:03:49
and like not even, it's like a bad cartoon.
1:03:52
It's a, it's not even a, it's not even a good, it's not even a
1:03:59
good pack of lies. And yet COVID flies even more
1:04:06
than AIDS did. People believed it even more
1:04:10
than they believed it. People just believed it.
1:04:12
So, so the social engineers obviously know something about
1:04:15
our our deepest psyches. I, I can't believe anybody
1:04:19
believed it. I can't believe anybody believed
1:04:23
like, for example, in a city like New York City where I'm
1:04:26
from, that after all, all this time of being New York City
1:04:31
where people are coming in from, all of you know, it's it's.
1:04:35
It's a filthy place that Oh no, now there's this this little
1:04:39
thing that you know is going to kill everybody.
1:04:42
I I don't know what that of course I was immunized against
1:04:45
it from my work, but what I'm trying to say.
1:04:53
Is this all really should be addressed as massive MK Ultra
1:05:01
mind control projects first? And social engineering projects
1:05:06
first, money laundering, criminal cartels first, and then
1:05:15
I don't even know what the. Point is anymore of of tinkering
1:05:18
with the science and one thing that was different about COVID,
1:05:20
it didn't even have a didn't even have a father.
1:05:24
Bob Gallo at least was standing up there making his insane
1:05:28
claims about so-called HIV. But nobody fathered SARS COV 2
1:05:34
as the cause of AIDS, as a causation theory.
1:05:39
Proving my point again, that they launched these things, the
1:05:43
global beast, and it's decades in the planning and they know
1:05:49
something about our psyches and they have all the patents and
1:05:51
all the technologies and they have their aims, which I don't
1:05:54
think we quite understand yet. We understand they wanted to
1:05:56
kill a lot of people. We understand it was a test run.
1:06:00
And I really think if people want to understand what might
1:06:04
they actually be up to, you really have to look into the
1:06:08
deep history of the New World Order, the deep Masonic plots,
1:06:14
the Club of Rome, all that kind of stuff.
1:06:17
And people who like to focus on esoteric science, they'd never
1:06:24
touch that stuff. Have you noticed that?
1:06:30
Yes, just for clarity, because somebody listening to this for
1:06:35
the first time might not be following terribly much of what
1:06:41
you're not talking about. Because my assumption is that
1:06:44
whoever's listening to this already knows your work and
1:06:47
already kind of knows the subject matter.
1:06:50
But the gist of it is that there isn't evidence that, based on
1:07:00
the current definition of HIV, such a pathogen exists and
1:07:06
spreads to another person and causes something called AIDS.
1:07:12
Correct, correct. And the way you can.
1:07:17
OK, let's look around for a moment.
1:07:19
It's 2025. You have the, for example, the P
1:07:23
Diddy trial, or you take a figure like Jeffrey Epstein, or
1:07:27
you take a figure like, I mean, forget, leave aside for a moment
1:07:31
the issue of blackmail, human trafficking, child trafficking,
1:07:40
which is what we usually think we're talking about only when we
1:07:43
talk about these figures. But think about the sex part for
1:07:46
a moment, and then think about AIDS theory for a moment.
1:07:50
Back in the 80s, the the mantra and the indoctrination, the
1:07:55
heavy revolutionary indoctrination was that any act
1:08:00
of unprotected sex could kill anybody, any broken condom, et
1:08:06
cetera. Why wouldn't the most?
1:08:10
And they have only fans. I mean, you, you have a world
1:08:13
now that is very sexually promiscuous.
1:08:20
You could even say it's like it's all like a big sort of, or
1:08:24
it's like orgiastic, right? Sex is out of every off of every
1:08:28
kind of harness or chain, right? This is a highly, highly
1:08:33
sexualized era. And what do you never hear?
1:08:39
I got AIDS from, you know, you have these, these women also,
1:08:42
you know this, this just screams to have a stock to me.
1:08:45
These blonde British women who claim they're having, you know,
1:08:49
has sex with 1000 men a day. It is unbelievable and it's so
1:08:54
gross. Because again, again, again,
1:08:58
they're trying to break our souls.
1:09:01
And you know about, because you interviewed Mike Williams, you
1:09:05
know that The Beatles was one of the one of the first big social
1:09:09
engineering project like a wedge weapon to shatter family values,
1:09:15
Christian ethos, all kinds. So this is what these this crowd
1:09:19
is always after. And I don't.
1:09:23
See any chance whatsoever that those those only fans women?
1:09:27
And it's really odd that they're always British and they look
1:09:30
very similar. They're all blonde, they're all
1:09:31
British, they look very similar. This is an OP.
1:09:36
And So what does that OP want? It wants to destroy women.
1:09:45
I think the main goal of these people, the number one goal is
1:09:51
to destroy women and to destroy human bonds and to destroy the
1:10:00
human soul. So if we want to take a step
1:10:06
back and say, wait, really HIV wasn't correct, I just ask
1:10:09
people, it's like when when you OK psyops, they're all over 911
1:10:14
psyop, AIDS psyop, COVID psyop. The way to see them you know
1:10:20
Pearl Harbor like it takes about 20 years and then it the back
1:10:26
end like like as if half an airplane just.
1:10:28
Fell off. It just falls off.
1:10:30
It's just not there. The thing that they used to make
1:10:34
to forge it to weaponize it is evidently not happening in our
1:10:40
world. But it has moved on.
1:10:42
And the OP doesn't want to be correct or true or right or
1:10:46
proven right or nobody. It doesn't need to be.
1:10:49
It's an attack and it serves its purpose in its time.
1:10:53
And then they move on to the next attack.
1:10:55
But if we're still talking about, can we be certain that
1:10:59
HIV theory, which was that it was a sexually transmissible
1:11:04
disease, highly transmissible, very invariably lethal, but it
1:11:08
was supposed to be sexual. And This is why I insist Dusberg
1:11:12
deserves way more credit from his contemporary critics in the
1:11:17
no virus movement. Because I remember vividly and I
1:11:21
broke out in a cold sweat when he, when he came out and said
1:11:25
it's not sexually transmissible, right?
1:11:29
And then we had all all kinds of things we came upon that there
1:11:34
was no HIV in human semen. And so, so these wars, you see,
1:11:38
were and now they're pushing so much sex and they're simply not
1:11:42
mentioning it. When was the last time you heard
1:11:44
anybody mention oh be careful with sex you could get AIDS.
1:11:48
It's over in South Africa. In South Africa you never hear
1:11:52
anything about it. It's over long gone.
1:11:54
It's over, right? So.
1:11:56
So what are we actually talking about right now when we talk
1:12:01
about hindsight and who was right?
1:12:04
If if HIV theory were true and it's a virus that's contagious,
1:12:12
why is there no vaccine? Yeah, that's a weird, that's a
1:12:17
weird one because there was but Gallo as you know, but there
1:12:23
would be afterwards and this again, Duisburg, Duisburg always
1:12:28
said that. So, so how did they tell people
1:12:31
they quote UN quote had it had HIV?
1:12:34
They said it was antibodies, normally the thing in the
1:12:40
classical world that they blew up overnight, that was how it
1:12:44
was determined that you had defeated an infection.
1:12:47
That was the premise of vaccinology.
1:12:50
So how would you develop an AIDS vaccine that would induce
1:12:54
antibodies that are, what are they like the good antibodies?
1:12:57
Where's the HIV positive infected, stained, tarnished,
1:13:01
doomed people have the bad antibodies.
1:13:03
It's all batshit. That's what's hardest to
1:13:07
believe, that it's all batshit multi trillion dollar bat shit.
1:13:15
I asked a gay friend of mine if he knows of any gay people who
1:13:21
have AIDS and he said no. Now that might just be anecdotal
1:13:25
and he is a normie so to speak, but he literally.
1:13:31
He literally takes poppers. Interesting.
1:13:37
Well, I have come to think that we had one of our blind spots in
1:13:42
the dissident discourse was the hepatitis B vaccine in the late
1:13:47
70s that went out to gay men in the big cities in America.
1:13:52
And I think maybe that we always said it was so Dusberg in his
1:13:57
defense, when they insisted, well, Dusberg, if HIV doesn't
1:14:00
cause AIDS, then what does? And he formulated his
1:14:02
toxicological model that it was a drug, a chemical, It's.
1:14:06
Likely no, it's likely. But there could have been a kick
1:14:10
off, a kick off factor like that, that like the hepatitis B
1:14:15
vaccine program. I just, we just didn't really
1:14:17
talk about that because we just thought it was probably drug
1:14:21
induced multifactorial. But all I can say is there's
1:14:24
just like something did happen and we were never quite able to
1:14:28
create the perfect causation model.
1:14:32
Only we all only to say the the one they gave us is definitely
1:14:36
false. But then it's.
1:14:38
Also it's, it's this collection, it's a whole, Yeah.
1:14:41
What is? It we're even talking about
1:14:42
right there was a clear it gay men in cities like New York, Los
1:14:47
Angeles, and so in the late 70s, early 80s and they had very
1:14:52
clear they had Kaposi sarcoma, they had pneumocystis chorinea
1:14:56
pneumonia. There was an it.
1:14:58
It was a catastrophic. I don't even know if.
1:15:02
It's correct to say immune crash, but you know there was an
1:15:05
IT and they called it acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome,
1:15:09
which was a correct name then. Follow this when Gallo announced
1:15:18
his. Virus as the cause of AIDS and
1:15:21
patented the first HIV test. I think his patent kicked in the
1:15:25
day after now, and this is very sinister.
1:15:30
What happens right here? They kick the.
1:15:33
Ball. Out So now AIDS becomes
1:15:37
something that you determine by way of an antibody test and it
1:15:41
is something that will come to you in the future according to
1:15:46
these Wizards, according to these witch doctors that you
1:15:50
test. And the first they said one year
1:15:52
you will probably be dead within a year of testing.
1:15:55
So this is healthy people now. Oh my God.
1:15:58
And they test and they test positive and then we say they
1:16:01
have AIDS because they have tested positive.
1:16:03
So the better part of our war was about separating all this
1:16:07
out there, wasn't it? Men who had AIDS, most of them
1:16:10
were finished off by by AZT in the early years and then later.
1:16:16
Including famous people like Freddie Mercury.
1:16:20
Yep. And Nuria Van Arthur Ashe.
1:16:23
Yep. And Keith Haring died of DDI
1:16:28
within a week or two and was healthy.
1:16:30
So do you see what I'm saying? If you see it like a split, a
1:16:33
split history in the beginning, there are real sick people, real
1:16:36
gay. Gay men are sick and showing up
1:16:39
at hospitals. There's an IT, then comes the
1:16:42
HIV is the cause of AIDS announcement from Gallo, Then
1:16:45
comes the HIV test and now it fans out into this massive net
1:16:52
based on this totally non specific technology that cross
1:16:59
reacts with at least up to 60 different non HIV proteins and
1:17:04
factors. Now you're in into the big money
1:17:09
because and and it resembles the monetary system in the following
1:17:13
way. I'm a little obsessed with this
1:17:15
and I wonder if you if this will resonate with you.
1:17:19
It's a debt. It's the first debt based
1:17:22
syndrome where you're projecting people to be indebted to their
1:17:27
putative illness in the future based on your theology of that
1:17:31
HIV will lead to AIDS. Did they ever have, let me ask
1:17:35
everybody this, did they ever have a group of people who
1:17:38
converted to 80, converted to HIV positivity and they watched
1:17:42
them and they thought, oh, they get sick after five years, 10
1:17:46
years, 20 years, 30 years. Of course not.
1:17:49
It was entirely fictional. They make things up and that's
1:17:53
what we can't understand as sort of children of the of the grand
1:17:58
experiment, like we can't understand that they just make
1:18:01
things up, but they do. So now you have people who are
1:18:06
are endlessly getting tested. They're gay men, they're
1:18:09
sexually active and they are worried about, they're properly
1:18:12
worried about HIV AIDS according to, you know, proper doctrine.
1:18:16
So they're getting tested all the time.
1:18:20
All the money comes in tested, tested.
1:18:22
They're getting their viral load tested and now you really also
1:18:26
have to introduce what about the mind?
1:18:30
They've been told they're doomed.
1:18:32
They've been told they're essentially already dead.
1:18:35
Now they're going on a battery of medications which are
1:18:38
extremely toxic to the liver and other organs.
1:18:41
And now they're beginning to die with syndromes, you know, get
1:18:46
sick and die with syndromes that are, guess what, so similar to
1:18:50
AIDS. And that's, they built that into
1:18:52
it too. It's all built so that you can't
1:18:55
tell what is what. You can't make any distinctions.
1:18:59
And that's in the design. Yes, confusion leads to mass
1:19:06
anxiety, as Matthias Desmond has spoken about.
1:19:09
And when you have mass anxiety, you have a lot of people
1:19:13
grabbing onto perhaps bad ideas. And that's what and that's what
1:19:17
he calls mass formation. Yeah, you asked about light and
1:19:20
hope. I think maybe the light is
1:19:25
streaming in from all directions, but it's not, it's
1:19:28
definitely not going to be a big moment like the fall of the
1:19:32
Berlin Wall. The it's the light is in how
1:19:38
open minded, astute, alert, questioning and spell breaking
1:19:44
so many people are now. The light is in the mass
1:19:49
rejection of mass media and the the spell casters and the mass
1:19:54
awareness that the media is just a mammoth mind control CI AM K
1:20:00
ultra project. That's because COVID was such a
1:20:03
sloppy OP. Even though it was successful in
1:20:06
many ways, it was very sloppy and crude and they alienated.
1:20:11
Most people, I mean, they alienated all but the most
1:20:17
totally prone to indoctrination. So they lost a lot of people.
1:20:20
So that I call, I would call that light.
1:20:26
We're kind of in we're kind of in the Enlightenment in that in
1:20:31
that regard, we're not saved, right.
1:20:33
No one's coming to save us. These people are still at their
1:20:36
posts working. They're evil.
1:20:39
But when we were when this whole nightmare began, most people
1:20:45
could not conceive of why would Fauci lie and get why would all
1:20:50
why would they all lie? Why would that was the average
1:20:53
response? Oh, they wouldn't.
1:20:55
It was sort of like everybody thought, you know, Daddy
1:20:58
wouldn't do that to us, whether it was Daddy Public Health or
1:21:02
Daddy Media. What is your sub stacks address?
1:21:08
It is Celia, Celia Farber at I'm sorry, celiafarber.substack.com.
1:21:17
It's called The Truth Barrier, and my book, I'll hold it up is
1:21:22
called Serious Adverse Events. An Uncensored History of AIDS
1:21:28
came out. It was reissued in 2023.
1:21:32
It's on what's it called, Amazon in the 1st chapter.
1:21:38
I just want to say this a lot. We've talked a lot about Peter
1:21:42
Dusberg in this interview and what they did to him is all
1:21:46
summed up in what I think is my favorite chapter in the book,
1:21:48
which is chapter 1, and it's called The Passion of Peter
1:21:51
Dusberg. I wrote it for Harper's in 2006.
1:21:57
CDF Harbor, thank you for joining me in the Drangers.
1:22:01
Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you so much.