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How Caving Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff
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• 1:00
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, um, so what is that again? That's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: mo bro dot CEO slash Charles Bryant. Yes, thank you
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: in advance. Yeah, that's nice, Chuck. All right, let's get
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to it. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Um,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'm an MC of sorts. Not the cool kind, the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: boring kind with me is always is em C Charles W.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, he's the same kind of MC that I am.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Suck EM No, no, not even We're not even suck mcs.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: We're too square for that even maybe sucker mcs, but
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: certainly not with an A. I'm a sucker, right MC, Yeah,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: too square to be a sucker? That is a T shirt.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Well i'll bet it is now number two the square shape.
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  Speaker 1: Huh number two the letter B or two squared two
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  Speaker 1: with two to the second path. Too square to be
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a sucker. Yeah, that's it. Yep, you've pretty we've reached
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the point where you say stuff and people make T
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: shirts of it. One of these though, we're gonna hit
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and we can quit this whole podcast in game retire,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: never will be rich old men podcasting still if only uh, hey, Chuck, Hey,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: are you doing well? Yeah? You know, I think, um,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I remember that you actually have done this before what
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: we're about to talk about, um, and uh you had
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a good time into Yeah. I'll be offering my personal
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: insights along the way. But I was hoping so that's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: what I was getting at. Um. Hey, so I read
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: this article in Slate. It's called America's Ancient Cave Art.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: And back in the late seventies, there were a couple
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of friends who worked for the U. S. Forestry Service
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and I think Tennessee, and Um, they were running around,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: um the forest, and they found a cave and they
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: started to explore it. And they went into it and
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: they noticed, like there were all these weird like scratches
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: on the wall. And when they looked a little closer, like, wait,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that's not a scratch, that's a snake with horns, and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that's a bird that like is tearing the head off
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of something else. And one of them luckily realized that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: these are all images associated with what's called the Southeastern
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Ceremonial Complex, or more coolly named the Southern Death Cult,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: which sprung up around the southeastern United States inexplicably about
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: years ago. There's like this um what what the author
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of the article called a religious outbreak that they have
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: no idea where it came from. But um, the weird
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: thing about this is that they these these um drawings
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: were completely preserved, like you could still smear the charcoal. Um.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: They and even though they were anywhere from five and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: then they found some others that are up to like
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: six thousand years old, and they're all in this enormous,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: elaborate cave system in the southeastern United States, specifically the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Cumberland Plateau in Tennessee, UM. But what's most remarkable, aside
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: from their preservation, is that some of these are like
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a mile into the cave. So some of the mississipp
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: In people were running around walking a mile into a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: cave to like leave this art and it was perfectly preserved.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: That's pretty cool, even though almost every other trace of
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: this religious outbreak, the Southern Death Cult is just gone.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And that cool. That's awesome. So I bring that up
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: because that is one of the big reasons that people
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: go caving, which ultimately is entering a cave. Once you
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: walk into a cave, you're caving, right, Yeah, I think so.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Uh one in Southern Death Cult. The original name of
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the cult the band, Yes, it was, and they changed
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: it so much better. Well, I mean, that's one of
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: the coolest names anyone's ever come up with. And it's
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: an archaeological term. Yeah, so it's got just you know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: academic meaning as well. All right, Well, aside from the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: poor name, change. I like the band. Yeah, it's a
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: good band I used to do. You don't anymore, Well,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I mean it's just that sort of represented like high
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: school to me in early college. They still hold up.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's not I don't like it, you know. Yeah,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Billy Duffy plays a main guitar. All right, so spe lunking.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Should we go ahead and get this out of the way.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: That's that's another word for caving. But um been't there
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: an Atari game named Blanker? I think so. But cavers
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: don't really use that term a lot. They use it derogatorially. Yeah,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I think that is the case. I'm trying to remember
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: because I went caving, Like you said, go ahead and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: set that up for the rest of the show. With
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: my former neighbor, Um, who was a fan of the show.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: For you guys have a spat. We don't talk anymore.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I refused to acknowledge as president. No, he moved, Um,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But the other way that happened, yeah, yeah, he Um
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: he lived across the street and Um left a letter
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: my mailbox one day and it was like, hey, dude,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I heard you mentioned. It might have been after the
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: biospil speleology, which we'll touch on it again said I'm
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: experienced caver. Me and my buddy would love to take
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: you and you guys too, you and yeah, yeah we
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: were invited. Originally it was all more of us and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it ended up being just me. Right the day came,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, let's see crawl around in the cold
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: in the cave, get wet and muddy. I'm gonna stay home. Boy.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: After I did it, I was like, I'm so glad
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Emily and you, me and Josh didn't come. Just you
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: guys wouldn't like that. Yeah, there's a good picture of
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you on Facebook where you're covered in mud. Yeah, I'll
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: post more pictures when this comes out, but yeah, I'll
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: touch it on as we go. But the first thing
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I want to point out is that a cave can
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: be a thing that you picture when you picture a cave,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: which is like you're walking along and there's a big,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: huge entrance that you're looking at and you walk in,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: or in this case, it can be a little hole
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: in the ground, which is when I walked by, I
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: was like, that that's where we're going, and he was
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: like yeah. I was like, really, it's like a two
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: foot little hole in the ground. Yeah, it looked like, um,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: maybe a place where foxes livers. Yeah, and he's like,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: now that's how you get in there. I was like, okay,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you're like, that's how you get in their pal But
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it ended up being, aside from the most physically challenging
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: thing I've ever done, one of the coolest things I've done.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: It was very difficult, but you, I mean, you nail
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: it on the head. The cave is basically any opening
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: from the surface below ground, Yeah, into the earth right
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and um. For the most part, when we think of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: a cave, it's part of something called the karst landscape,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: which is characterized by like sink holes, underground aquifers, um,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: subtranean drainage, caves, a cave system. That's part that's it's
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: technically called a karst landscape. Yeah. And well, once you
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: read that, you kind of take it for granted, but
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: if you never really thought about it. I hadn't never
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: thought about it. I was like, well, why are these
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: caves even here? You know, someone didn't come in here
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and carve these out. No, but some natural processes, dude,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: that's right. There's actually um four main ways that caves
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: are created, right, Yeah, most caves um are limestone caves,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and you get those when rainwater uh seeps down through
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the soil, picks up some C O two along the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: way and that forms carbonic acid, which is kind of weak.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: It is, but if you if you have carbon carbonic
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: acid present in the same area for eons, Yeah, it's
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: going to eventually eat away at even stone, Yeah, like limestone,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And that's basically what happens. It either collects there for
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a long time or is um rushed in there by
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: rain and uh corrosion. Yeah, that's what happens. It's erosion
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: through abrasion. Through abrasion just basically rain will running over
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: something long enough, it's gonna erode it. And that's how
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: you get a cave one way. Yeah, that's the that's
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the main way. I think. Um, you've got extreme of files,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: which is kind of cool. We're still we're starting to realize,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you know. I think we talked about them in the
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Are we All Marson's episode? Yeah, we have an article
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: on extreme of files that I have earmarked for us.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Um. They are basically bacteria that live
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and thrive in um toxic environments like places where nothing
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: else lives. High sulfuric content are really high, temperatures are
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: really really low, temperatures are just Yeah, they're the only
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: things that live there. UM, and they are starting to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: realize that they have a pretty big impact on cave formation.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: For example, there's some that um like to eat oil underground.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I never knew this, and they eat and eat, and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: then they shoot ducks of sulfi gas, right, And the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: sulfi gas goes up and up and up as gases
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: wants to do, and it travels through UM. The through
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: groundwater picks up oxygen and becomes sulfuric acid, and that
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: really starts to eat away at caves. Yeah, that's probably
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: more so I think than yeah, which is you probably
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: want to look out for the sulfuric acid lake in
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: a cave system if you're ever caving, I would say so.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: So that's number two. Um, see sea caves, you'll see
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: a lot UM. If you ever do sea kayaking and
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: stuff around the island, you might venture into a sea cave.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Um. They are basically just water pounding
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: away at these seaside cliffs to the point where they
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: formed caves pretty easy. Yeah, did you ever see the Orphanage,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the Gearmo del Toro movie. No, dude, you've not seen that.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I almost watched it last week. That is one of
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: the best ghost movies ever made. Yeah. I was by
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: myself and I wanted to watch something scary because it
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: was and I searched around on the internet for like,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: what's a really good scary movie, not some crappy scary movie,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and that was on the list. And I ended up
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: searching and researching for so long. They didn't watch anything,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: went to sleep. You should have asked me or go
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: on to the social media's like. Yeah. Once, I was
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: like a Christmas scary movies and got in a conversation
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: with Joe Randazzo and like a couple of other people
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and ended up with this list of like great horror
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: movies and all of them panned out awesomely. That, dude,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that was another one recommended. But dude, it is it's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: just like the Spanish Civil War era orphan No, no, no,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: that's um what is that one called? I know the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: one you're talking about. I saw that one. That's okay.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Compared to the Orphanage, it might as well have been
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: like Pee Wee's Playhouse. Hey, I like peewee, know, I
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: mean as far as light fair goes. Ah, yeah, okay,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: it's just so much better watching it. Yeah, and watch
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Us of the Devil too, It's pretty good. I think
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you like that a lot. Yeah, I don't. I like
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: good scary. I don't like all that crappy saw like stuff,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like shocking, torture, porn crap. I like the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: first couple sauce. Alright, So that's the third wave. That well,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that was a good one. The fourth um is lava tubes.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: You know, when lava comes up through a volcano and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: it shoots up, if the conditions are right, the outer
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: part will cool more quickly than the creamy, gooey middle. Uh.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And when that happens that our shell will come together
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and form this coherent crust, and the stuff in the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: middle might fall back down. Right, You got yourself a tube.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: You have a tube of lava. Now, if at the
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: top of this that that top caves in or crumbles
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you have an entrance, and the
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: lava tube is now a cave. Because again, cave is
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: any entry from the above ground to hell. I imagine
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the lava tube caves are pretty interesting to explore. But
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I'm a limestone guy. Well, I mean, you don't spend
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: much time in Hawaii. If you did, I'll bet you'd
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: be a lava tube guy too. Yeah, you're probably right,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: all right. So once you're in the cave, you're gonna
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: notice a couple of things straight away. Um, stillactites and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: stillac mites. Okay, which is which? Man? I feel like
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: we have a golden opportunity to explain this to thousands
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and thousands and hundreds of thousands of people. It's very easy.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of little ways you can remember. Maybe
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: millions of people still lack tights, and that is where
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the sea are the ones that hang down. And you
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: can remember that by maybe hold on tight, still lack tight.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: They gotta hold on tight. Yeah, because it's not stillag
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: tight and stillag tight or stalac mite and stalagmite. It's
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: stillack tight with the sea and then stalagmite with the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: G and M. So that helps too, because you have
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: C for ceiling or G for ground. Great, there you
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: just did it, or T for top. If that helps you,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: we give you three ways to remember this. I don't
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: think that we're I don't I think I messed it up.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: This is so simple for a second and then I
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry everyone. So stalactites hang down, Stalagmites come up
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: from the bottom. Uh. They are speliotherms, which is a
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: K formation. And this happens when um carbonic acid eats
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: away at this limestone, it starts dripping the calcite mineral
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: from rain water. Yeah, it's just kind of trickling in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and it's just two centuries. Yeah, And as it is,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it's depositing that calcite, right. Yeah, So it drips down
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: from the top, so it forms and then it will
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: you know, not drip up, but collect and form up
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: from the bottom. Sometimes they'll meet and form a column,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: which is really cool. But these things grow at a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: rate of a quarter inch to an inch per century. Wow,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So you can't sit around and watch a stalactite form.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: That is basically so, the rain water comes down and
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: drips down, and whatever deposits are at the top going
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: down is a stalac tight, that's right. And it drifts
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: down under the ground and builds a formation that grows
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: up towards the top. Yes, that's a stalag might and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: that's why you usually find them together. And stillast scene
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: is actually the Greek derivative and means to drip. Really,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: so there you have it. And uh, they did mention
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I look these up because I've never seen them other uh,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: speleotherms like fried eggs and bacon. Did you look these up?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It's pretty neat. It looks like a fried egg. It's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the big formation. Yeah, it looks like a you know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it's it's large and round and has a center that's
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: very round as well. And then the bacon stuff, it
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: looks like bacon strips. It's like, you know, these little
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: strip like formations that have different colored patterns that look like,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you know, the fatty part of the bacon and the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: meaty part, and it looks like Fridays and bacons. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: feel like I saw the Friday eggs warm before you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: probably have. When I saw it, I was like, oh,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that's what that is, Friday's and bacon. I had to
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: see it because the the the name wasn't descriptive enough. Yeah,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and that's just this just proves that speleologists are fun
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: loving people. Right, So while you're in the cave, you're
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: probably going to run into certain kinds of animals, and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: as speleologists love to do, they've classified these things in
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the categories, right. Yeah, we talked about these in Biospeleology.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Creepy cave dwelling things. Yeah. If you haven't heard that
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: UM episode, go check it out. It's all about caves
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and the stuff living in caves. It's really cool. UM.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: But the troglzines, those are temporary visitors, like a bear
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: maybe hibernating in a cave. It's they live most of
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: their life outside of the cave and coming for shelter
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: food or like that. Then there's a trougle of files.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: That means they love the trog they do. They spend
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: most of their life there, but they will come out
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: some for food. Yeah, but they spend most of their
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: lives in the cave, right Yeah. Salamander's crickets, uh Daddy
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: long Legs and other spiders love them. And then there's
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the trougle of bites. Yeah. Those are ones who live
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: their entire lives within the dark zone of the cave
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and usually they don't have eyes, and apparently without exception,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: they're all blind, like the Prometheus salamander. Yeah, I remember
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that thing, the ozark blind salamander, the Tooth Cave spider,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: which isn't as creepy looking as it sounds. I expected
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to see, like, you know, some something out of a
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: like B movie, but it was just a little skinny spider.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: But if you name something the tooth cave spider, you
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: expect some like really scary looking thing, yeah, or something
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: with glasses and huge buck teeth. Yeah. Uh, same with
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the tooth cave beetle. And then and they're also blind
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: fish and shrimp and all manner of little white, creepy creatures.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: They lack pigment because they don't need it, Like, screw pigment.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: What do we need that for? Um? And then I
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: this kind of stuck out to me, the idea that
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: it's always the average annual temperature of the surface above
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a cave within the cave. So if it's the average
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: temperature over the course of an entire year in the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: spot above a cave is sixty degrees, it's always sixty
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: degrees in the cave. Not true, that's not true. No,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So this this the the temperatures in a cave are
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: very very stable. Um. But you know, depending on how
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: how deep it is. Closer you get to the center
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: of the earth, the warmer it gets so that has
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: an effect. And just like above ground with the sun warming, um,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the surface differently causes weather, different amounts of heat in
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: inside a cave. Cause what we wouldn't recognize is weather,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: but actual weather itself. So is this wrong? Yes, the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: way it stated, it's always the average annual temperature. Yeah,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: but generally it is. Yeah, it's usually very stable and
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: it's very close to that. But we're finding now that
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: there is actual weather that happens in a cave, just
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: like there we found out there's seasons on the bottom
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: of the sea floor like that. It seems like the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: same thing to us, but there's actually like seasons and
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: changes that we don't We didn't recognize because we don't
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: think of it that way. Uh, caves um sometimes can
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: be dry and dusty. I guess it all depends on
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: where you are in the country. Um. The one I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: went to, and like many caves are wet and muddy,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and I was not expecting that. I was not expecting
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of what I encountered. Actually, really, you weren't.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Were you prepared for a wet money? Oh yeah, I
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: mean they told me what to wear and we'll get
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: into all that stuff. But um, I just I don't know.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be walking into a thing
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and then walking around, sort of like the kid caves
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that you can take the whole family too. But um, yeah,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like that at all. It was being dropped
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: into a muddy, wet, cold hell. Yeah. And you looked
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: like it too, man afterwards, like you were really glad
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: to be top side again. It was weird coming out,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I'll say that. So why did you go? Why would
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: anybody go? What's the allure of caving? Uh? The unknown
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and the thrill of discovery. Well, it's true though, that's
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: what the article says. But I don't mean to be glib.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It is very cool and way different down there, Like
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: you get a sense that it is. It is not
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the same top side as it is in the bowels
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: of the earth. Very different place and very cool to experience. Yeah, firsthand.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: And as we mentioned, there's a lot of good opportunity
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: for cave archaeology because the climate and temperature in a
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: cave is so stable. Things are Things left in caves
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: are really really well preserved. Yeah, and you know they're
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the caves were a good place for ancient rituals and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: things and um, they mentioned that the cave art in France.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Have you seen this stuff? Yeah, holy cow, it's like
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: it looks like artwork painted on canvas, some of it does.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, just scratchy cave drawings. Like
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: this stuff is really beautiful. And uh they found this
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: um in nineteen forty. They discovered this in France from
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the Paleolithic era, seventeen and twenty years old and over
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: two thousand figures drawn. And it's like, from what I understand,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like the granddaddy of all cave drawing scores was here
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: in France. Um, here in France. There in France. Well
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: there's also another one called Chauvet Cave in France, and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: that's what Herzog's Cave have Forgotten Dreams? Is that, Oh
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: you didn't. I'll watch anything that he's in the ordinarrates
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: he's a bad guy and is it the new Bond? Now?
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Now? He's a bad guy in some
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: movie coming up? And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: no one sounds more diabolical than for an earths all. Yeah,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: it's perfect. Um, but yeah, no, that's that's a good
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: one too. And I think they shot it in three
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: D as well. It's supposed to be like really good. Um,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: but yeah, check that one out. It's it's very interesting
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: because they figure out that, Um, they're like, why why
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: would these idiots draw bison with eight legs? Was there
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: an eight legged bison back then? And then somebody figured
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: out that if you look at it by by torchlight,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: not electric torch but real fire torches, it move. It moves.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is so cool. Yeah, wow, that's awesome.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I highly recommend you guys go and google
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: image these um L A S c A U X
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: France and it's all over the place. And what was
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the other one? Chauve h u v e T. Yeah,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: very cool stuff and c have forgotten dreams if you're
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: into that. I mean, it's a lot of cattle drawings, granted,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: but um, you know it's better than you would think,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: You're right, considering they're doing this on a cave twenty
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: years ago. Right. Uh. There's also bio speleology, which we
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: talked about at length and we don't need to really
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: get into here again, go listen to the biospeleology episode.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: But that's another reason people go through caves. But ultimately
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I think like the first sentence was the right one.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: It's like the thrill of discovery and unknown. Yeah, there's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: so few people doing any actual caving and enough caves
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: out there that like, you've got a pretty good shot
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of finding something that no one else has seen for
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: ten thousand years or maybe ever. Yeah, you know that's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: pretty cool. Uh, And cavers to um, part of being
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: a a caver or a speleologist is being into conservation
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and preservation. And that's one thing I learned from my
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: buddy Eric and his friend there. They were like casual
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: speed lunkers that were in there, clearly didn't know what
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: they were doing, weren't dressed for it, didn't have the
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: proper equipment. And of course these guys are just like
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: these are the people that get us in trouble or
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: that get in trouble that we need to come help
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: get out of trouble. Uh. But I think serious cavers
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: are uniformly way into the preserving the cave. Like they
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: don't just go and cave and like, yeah, that was cool,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Like they're all into the meetings and the preservation. A
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: lot of them do the volunteer for church and rescue
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, Like they really get into it. Yeah,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: it's not a casual affair, no, And I that that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that idea actually extends to um urban spelunking or urban exploration.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, where you um you enter something like a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: sewer system or an abandoned building or something like that.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: But you're One of the big rules is like you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: can't break an inner. You can enter somebody else has
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: already like cut a hole in the chain link fence.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: You go through that hole. You can't cut that hole yourself,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and you don't take anything. You you preserve the places
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: exactly the way it was. And we actually have I think,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: what's a new article on the site that's awesome ten
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: top ten cities for urban exploration. It's like got all
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: these attractions of like where to go in this city
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and like cool, well Francis the catacombs, I know, we're
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: really popular. Um and I did a little bit of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that in Florida in um Fort Pickens in Pensacola, Oh,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the Fort Pickens Catacombs. Well, the Fort Pickens battery. It
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: was like you know civil war battery. Yeah, and um,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's all blocked off now. But at the time,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: like the metal bars were bent enough where you could
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: get through, and me and my brother and my brother
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in law like may torches and like went all through
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the stuff, you know, stuff written on the walls, like
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: from the Civil War, and then stuff written on the
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: walls clearly more modern, uh in nature, but just graffitian
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: stuff and beer cans. But it was just neat walking around.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: It's cool. Um, what else, Chuck, how do you get started? Yeah?
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I guess if this podcast tickles your fancy, then you
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: may want to know how to get into this. Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: A lot of people might be into the very easy
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: guided you walk in and you walk around type of experience. Right,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: take the kids. There's nothing wrong with it. You can
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: still learn a lot, you know, it's not a cop
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: out like Carl's Bad caverns and like the real touristy ones.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: They're great. Yeah. Have you ever been there? I haven't
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: been there. I've been to Ruby Falls. You mean I
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: went Ruby Falls? Is nice? It was, yeah, and there
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: were plenty of people running around. Was very well lit yeah,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: um safe yeah, and then but it was so awesome
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: getting to the falls. Yeah, yeah, I mean like it
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was great. It was total. I think part of the
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: reason I appreciated it so much because I took it
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: for what it was. It was like this, this is tourism,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's also very cool. Yeah. I mean
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: you're walking underneath a fault line in the earth. Yeah,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it's really kind of You can sell t shirts afterward,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: but it's still very cool to be in there. Um,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: So you can do that. You can go to these
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: like really big touristy ones and still get a nice variance,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: or you can get a guided tour for you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a little more um intense experience. Have you been in
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Carlsbake camera? Yeah, okay, Yeah, it's nice's lovely. It's like
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: red carpet everywhere. Yes, couches everything. Um. But they do
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: mention in this article that kids are great to take
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: into caves. They love that kind of stuff. Obviously you
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: want to keep an eye on them because it's pretty
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: easy to get lost in there. Yeah. But at these
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: at these big major attractions, they they take care of you.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: You know, they're not gonna let your kids go off
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: and live with the salamanders. Yeah, and you've got a
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: guide for the guided tour, but even self guided tours
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: are it's usually like paved or clearly marked trail, like
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you're you're gonna have a lot of trouble getting lost
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: if you get off of this trail, um or if
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: you stay on the trail. I should say, Yeah, I
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: went to a concert in a cave one time. Yeah,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and Tennessee, they man, what's the name of It's something
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: caverns and I can't remember now, but it was the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Litill Rejuice played their last show ever in this cave
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and they have regular shows. They're like usually it's like
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: bluegrass and stuff, but it's awesome, Like you you know,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you park in this big field and then it's one
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: of these where you walk into a huge opening and
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: there's big paths, but you know, you walk like probably
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: half a mile down in there, and then it opens
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: up to this huge open room and there's a stage
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and there's lights and everything. That's cool, really cool. Experienced
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the green rooms like there, I don't know, it's probably brown. Right,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: just sit on that rock. We'll bring you some shrimp. Yeah,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: it was really very cool show. Though I might post
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: pictures of that too. Wow, this is gonna be a
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: picture of bananda. Um. Then there's cave diving. Yes, probably
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the most dangerous thing my person can do. We can't
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: overstate that enough. Like even these caver dudes that I
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: was with, their hardcore they were like, those people are crazy. Yeah,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And if you're a hardcore scuba diver, even a wreck diver,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you're a cave diver. No, cave diver
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: is its own thing. Yeah, and like it's it's very
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: easy to die. In two twelve seven people already died
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: in cave diving twelve now, wow, three of them in
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: three different days, three consecutive days in Florida, in three
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: different incidents. Yeah, in March. Yeah, it's scary. And asked Eric.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, well why you know, what's the big deal?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And he was like, dude, you're just you gotta be
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: crazy to do it. And he's like, you are underground, underwater,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and it's very easy to get lost and turned around,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and you've only got so much air. They say that
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to never like to try and exit with half a
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: tank of air still or whatever. It was not air,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: what is it? It's compressed, compressed, just like an air mix,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: but it's generally air. Yeah, But they're like, you don't
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: want to go below half a tank ever, that's just scary.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: And he took me after we went caving, he took
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: me to the entry point for the cave diving nearby,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and it's this little probably you know, tin foot by
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: tin foot whole, you know, a little pool, but it's
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: like infinitely deep and it's like wow, so you can
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: jump in and just sort of waddle around, or there's
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: below that there's the tube where you enter, and it
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: just seems like the scariest thing ever, right with a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: tank of air on your back that could be punctured
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: by anything, because it's not like there's not stalactites hanging down.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Utterly frightening to me. Um that said, if you're in
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a cave diving, you go through the certification and you
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: like are into that kind of thing. There's some awesome
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: cave diving like sinote Is any sinote Um. And there's
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: a place in that I missed when we were talking
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: about the Abandoned Minds podcast. There's a place called Bond
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Terror Mine, Missouri, and it's an old lead mine that
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: was in production for like a hundred years and then
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they closed it down in nineteen sixty and they didn't
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: remove anything there's like magazines, all this stuff still sitting around,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: and they lotted it with like a billion gallons of
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: crystal clear water. Really, and you can go scuba dive.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: You can cave dive this abandoned mine now and see
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: there's like an old movie theater down there. There's mind
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: cars elevator. Yeah, it's pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah, but
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: it's like the visibility is just limitless. I wonder if
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that's slightly safer. I think it's pretty heavily guided as
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: well as tours go, So if you're gonna start somewhere,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: that would probably be a good place. Yeah. I saw
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a couple of dudes come out of the whole um.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Then all the cavers know each other, it seems like
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: because they knew these guys and they were like, oh, yeah,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: it's good. You know, these guys are real nice. And
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: then they turned around they're like they're nuts, these guys
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: are crazy. Um. Oh, so all the cavers know each
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: other because they're all members of Grottos, right, Yeah, it
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: definitely seems like a close knit community, right, Like they're
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: all on each other that have each other's contact info
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: because you know, when someone gets lost, they send out,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like who can and help? Basically, who's free
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: tomorrow to come and find these idiots tomorrow they're in
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: trouble if it's tomorrow, that's true. But well, a grotto
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: is a caving club, right, and there are any legitimate
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: caving club is sanctioned by the National Speleological Society, and
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: there's about two d caving clubs or grottos in the US.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Nice good people. So if if you're a member of
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: a grotto, if you're a caver, what are some of
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the things that you're gonna need. You're already into this,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: You're like, come on, let's go. What are we gonna do? What?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: What do I need to take with me? Well, you
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: want to take three forms of light um, and plenty
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: of backup batteries and take closed sticks, take the headlamps,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: take lighters, even though those will get wet. Um. You know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you can bag him in the dry bag. But take
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: as many forms of light as you feel comfortable with.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: That's not less than three, and not only I took
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: like four or five flocks. That's smart. Yeah, I just
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and I knew I was gonna be fine, but I
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: was just like, you know what, I'm going into the
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: depths of the earth. I want to have lots of
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: light at my disposal, right, and you want to also
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: have lots of batteries and extra bulbs for those lights,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: just because the light, your light is the number one
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: most important thing when you're caving. That's the number one
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: most important piece of equipment. Yeah, and my buddy Eric
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: had a carbide lamp, which, um, you know, back in
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the day with like even car headlights and lights on
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the fronts of houses. Um, it wasn't always a gas lamp.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it was carbide and old school cavers used these things.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And it's basically a chemical reaction. Um. It burns a
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: seedylene gas and it's created from a reaction of calcium
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: carbide with water. So he had this, uh, this pod
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that he carried on his belt that had carbide pellets
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: in it and it would drip water down and create
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the gas and it fed it up through a tube
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: connected to the you know, the the gas lamp that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: he's wearing on his head. And it was really cool.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: The other guy didn't have one, but Eric was used it,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and um, the light that it gives is just really
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: very illuminating. It's not like a you know how incandescent
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: light is just so specific, even if it's like a
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: broad range, it's not like having a flame. So this
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: thing really warn't like warms up the cave. And it
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: does actually warm it um slightly, but just generally with
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: light warmth. It's just like the cave was illuminated, not
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like a flashlight shining on something very cool and um,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: very durable. Like if you take care of these things,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: they're a little finicky, but if you take care of them,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: you can have them like your whole life. Sounds kind
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: of uh no, it's very old school. Yeah, it's old
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: angled and you just look cool. Eric looked like a
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: cool guy with this tube running out of his head
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and flicking the little lighter switch. And do you look
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: cooler than I did with my Yeah, with my glow stick. Um.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: So you need light, you need light. You need a helmet,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and you want your helmet to be so if I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: by the Union International Day Associations del peace. Yes, Jerry
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: just laughed. There. You want to helmet, you want like
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: and this is if you if you want to do
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: it right like and safely. We we saw morons and
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: tank tops and shorts walking around and crawling around and
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: you know these guys are just rolling their eyes, are
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: like those are the people that get hurt and get lost. Um.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: We had kneepads and elbow pads, helmets, Um. As far
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: as safety gear, that was pretty much it, and that
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: they have like rope and stuff just in case. Um,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and you want to dress appropriately avoid cotton. Well, if
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you are wearing cotton, you want to wear under layers
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: of synthetics. Yes, snag less easily, they dry more quickly. Yeah. Yeah,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I would imagine you just want to avoid cotton altogether
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: as possible. Yeah. I were one of those like synthetic
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: wicking shirts, you know, the workout shirts. Um, but you
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: do you want to dress in layers because it's cold
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, but you know you you may raise
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: your heart right here there and you may get a
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: little warm. That definitely makes my heart right. Um, you're
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: gonna get wet most likely. Um. You can be in
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the dry, dusty cave, but chances are you gonna get wet. Uh.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: There were times where we were up to our chest
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: in a crevice about two ft wide, up to our
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: chest and water and it's intimidating. It's like I'm far
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: away from anybody, and like, what if this water rises?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I mean it didn't, but you know what if it
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: started raining. These things can happen pretty fast down there,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and uh so, I mean we were literally soaked through
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the bone. It's like getting a swimming pool and then
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: you get out and you're covered in mud and you're
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to climb things. That's like climbing a creased wall
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: of stone. I'm like, am I supposed to really do this?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: And they were like pushing me by by but it
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: was sort of embarrassing, like pulling me. It felt like
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: a stuck pig at times. The only thing that made
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: it better was the warm glow of the carbine lamp.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And then they had the pancakes, you know where it's like,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: you know, as I'm surprised my body fit in this
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: thing and you had to go like thirty feet across
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: this pancake. Well it's a it's where there's a top
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: rock and a bottom rock, so basically you just there's
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: like a foot of space to crawl through and you
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: can't even crawl. You're like inching, you know, using your
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: shoulder blades. I would have lost my You would not
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: have liked this pancake. And that's when I remember thinking, boy,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Josh would not have liked this part. It was uncomfortable
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: for me. And I don't even have issues with like,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: you know, closed in spaces, but you feel like, what
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: if the earth shift did it and this thing just
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: smashed me. Yeah, of course you're a that and ship
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: like that, but I don't know it could. I'm down there,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I'm freaking out. Yeah, and you made it, though, I
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it here. You survived. Uh what else?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: You need? Food? Sure? You want enough to last your
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: whole trip, and then some just in case, you know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: like you want gloves, you want a first aid kit. Yeah,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and here's my favorite part. So we were talking about
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: how um like you do you just preserve the environment
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: exactly as it was found. This also means that you're
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: not allowed to poop there. You can poop there, but
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: you're gonna poop into like a plastic container that you
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: can carry out with you because you take your urine
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and your feces out of the cave with you. So
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you want a plastic bottle to p intwo and a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: like a good crushed proof container to poop into. I
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: did not poop. I wouldn't have pooped. I'd just be like, well,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not pooping today. Yeah, and you know
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I was only down there a few hours. So if
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you can. If you can't hold your poop a few hours,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: you probablyouldn't be caving that day. Man, just put it off,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you know. Imagine getting sick down there, like vomity, No,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you mean, the other kind o
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: like poopies. Yeah, yeah, that would be awful. Um. If
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you have a cave map, which you should have, UM,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: bring a few copies, put them in zip blocks, hand
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: them out to your friends that you're with, make sure
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: everyone knows what's going on. And you also want to
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: probably leave one at home with an X marks the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: spot of your route. And um, well, at least it's
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the cave safety, doesn't it. Yeah. Um, there's a lot
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: of precautions you should be taking before you set out. Yeah,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you know what you're doing. Do not take it lightly.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It's not like a hike, um that you can go on,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: so it's it's definitely different. You should go with someone
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: that knows what they're doing. Um. At the very least, uh,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: A couple of people would be even better. They say
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: not to go in really large groups because you don't
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: want to, like you could leave someone behind easier, Like
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: four to six people is a good number, and you
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: want to put the slowest person at the front of
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the group. That would have been me. So everybody's kind
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of pushing them from behind sometimes literally. Uh. And the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: reason why is because you know that person doesn't get
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: left behind. That makes the whole groups together. And if
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: you're into um, passive aggressive peer pressure, that's great. That's
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: a great situation for everybody. Yeah, you know, no, you're fine.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: That's what they kept saying to I know you're doing great, buddy,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, I'm not. I know, I'm
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that guy. Um. You also, never ever want to go
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: caving alone. I don't think there's a better sentence that's
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: ever been spoken by anybody. Never go caving alone. That's
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: a good idea. Um. If you do get lost, they
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: say to stay put, and that it's better to stay
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: put instead of moving around because at least you're where
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: you last were. You are where you last were, well,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: you're where you said you were going to be at
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: least roughly. If your light goes out in your alone,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: start screaming at the top of your lungs until someone
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: comes and gets you. That's probably not a idea, but
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: they say not to freak out. But yeah, I would
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: definitely try and make a little noise, although you also
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: don't want to attract the descent hail billies. Yeah, they were,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: they were mountain folk. You know. That was a lot
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: like a Lovecraft um story. I wasn't I can't remember
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: the name of it, but it's, uh, there's a whole
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: thing that takes place in the Alleghanies, maybe at Airondacks
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: one somewhere up there. Um, whereas this family that was
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: like kind of mountain folk came to inbreed and eventually
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: moved underground. Was one of his best ones. Man, he was.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: We should do a podcast on him. Okay, what a
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: twisted mind. Well we did the Necronomic and remember, yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: but let's just do one in his life what made
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: him tick? Let's do it. Um. Oh, well, we're at
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: it real quick, dude. I found a real legitimate physics
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: paper or written by a legitimate physicist that explains how
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: certain of the in uh lovecrafts the Call of Cthulhu
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: can be explained away by quantum physics. Really yeah, it's
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: specifically a gravitational lensing. Yeah, to explain what cthulhu is
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: or know, like what happened to this guy who went
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: mad and described this crazy place that he went and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: stumbled upon in the South Pacific um and then came
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: back and wrote about it. They were like, well, actually,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, what he's talking about is a quantum bubble. Yeah,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: it's pretty awesome. That's like it's it gets like he
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: works out math and formulas for explaining all of this
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and that's but the rest of it is really interesting. Wow. Yeah,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what it's called, but probably look up
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the physics of the called cathula and I'm sure it'll
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: bring it up. That's a good one. That's awesome. So
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: what are some of the big problems you're going to
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: run into, Chuck, aside from getting lost or running out
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of light. Hypothermia, right, always a concern when you're cold
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: and wet. Um, Like I said earlier, letting of passages,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: which I was worried about the whole time, um slipping, falling.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I was slipping all over the place. It's gonna happen
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: in these muddy caves and you know, you just I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: just sort of slid and try not to pick my
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: face up off the rock. But I definitely got bumps
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: and bruises and I was really sore the next day.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: It was like mountain climbing, except under ground in the
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: mountain was slick and muddy. That's basically kind of what
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: it felt like rock climbing. It was not what I
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: thought it was gonna be. Once again, I can't stress
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: that enough. It's not It's not a stroll. Hey my
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: bologna se am. Yeah. It was pretty bad, um, but
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: super fun. And like I said, when you come out, man,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: it's so weird once you've been underground for that long,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: when you come out into the real world, everything is
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: just like hypercolorful and bright and just weird, and it's like, man,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: there's a whole different world down there that most people
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: don't know about. Highly encourage it. Just be careful. Yeah,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I think that's good advice. Is there anything else in here? Um?
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Always make sure that several people above ground know where
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: you went, know where you're going now when you expect
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to be back. Um, and if somebody does get hurt,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: never leave that person alone. A couple of people have
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to stay with them. A couple of people have to
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: go top side. The people who go top side need
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to leave some of their supplies and lightening stuff and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: water back with the people who are hanging out with
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: the injured person. They need to know exactly where the
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: injured person is so they can tell other people who
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: can come get them out. Um. And Uh. They also
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: need to remember to take the car keys with them.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Really kind of important. You don't want to get all
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: the way out there and be like, can you imagine
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: let the keys in there? Uh. And then, like you said,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: if you ever get lost, you don't want to panic.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: You want to stay put. You want to rely on
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: your plan, your backup plan, which was letting a bunch
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: of people know that you were supposed to have been
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: home two hours ago and you weren't that right. And
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: there are thousands of caves in the US, um many
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: of which are very explorable. Just do your research beforehand,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: go with someone that knows what they're doing. There are
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: more extreme caves around the world that are very cool
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: to look at. Ones that you actually can skydive into,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: or not scott dive, but base jump into. Boy that
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine Scott having into one. I think I've seen, um,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I've seen video of people bass jumping into this Sutano
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: de LESCo and yeah it was. I think Planet Earth
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: the Discovery Show had that. Okay, yeah, that's it was.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: It's way cool. And then like you talked about the nots,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: those are very cool too. Um, just be careful. Have
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: we said that enough? I don't know. I don't think
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you can, because, like I said, once you get there,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: you realize they're just a bunch of dummies no matter
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: what that are ill prepared locals that are like, yeah,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I've been done here before. Good luck people. That's all
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I've got. Okay, Well, if you want to learn more
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: about caping, you can type in spelunking in the search
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: bar at how stuff works dot com. Sp E l
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: U n K I n G. It will bring up
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: this article. Um and uh, I said spelunky, which means,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: of course it's time for a listener. Now, I'm gonna
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: call this Pakistani pizza. We did a pizza podcast and
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: we got lots and lots and lots of feedback on that.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I knew that was going to be one of those
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: very ubiquitous food that people love to talk about UM
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: and this is from UM and I'm probably gonna put
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: your name, sorry, buddy uh nabi haa okay. And he
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: said that he listened to the Pizza Cast and but
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: he would drop some four one one on pizza in Pakistan.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: He's originally from Orlando but currently lives in Karachi for university.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: And he said, here, when you order a pizza, you
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: don't really order toppings, but you order us specific flavor um.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Although if you're at a pizza place you can order
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: specific toppings and build your on pizza. His Pizza Hut
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: calls it, so they are a little less cooperative when
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you order for delivery, apparently in Pakistan. So he said,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: your pizza will most likely have some form of chicken
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: on it, and then of course there's no ham because
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: it's a Muslim country. Pizza Hut alone serves chicken Tica,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Chicken Cary, Chicken Fajita Harry Chicken f caan Tica, and
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the spicier fajita Sicilian as vell as vell as well
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: as the veggie schwarma Pepperoni and a couple of other
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: different beef flavors. That's so good chizza in Pakistan here's
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: the kicker for me, guys. Not only do they offer
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: their usual stuff crust with the rope of cheese, they
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: also serve beefy uh seekh kebab stuff crust. Yes, wow,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Papa John, Wait wait, I want this man? Sure you
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: understands what you just said? He said that they offer
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: a a pizza with a crust stuffed with kebab with
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: beef kebab. That sounds delightabul it does. Um. Papa John's
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Uh offers a more traditional American pizza mini with their
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: various pseudo Italian names including Chicken Florentine, um Dominoes. Flavors
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: in Pakistan are a little more mainstream American, while they
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: do serve chicken tika as well as something called Golden
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Feast or something to that effect, which as far as
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I know involves corn, pineapple, and probably chicken. Along with
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the corporate giants, there are plenty of local chains oddly
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: generic sounding names including Pizza Place, Pizza Point, Pizza, California Pizza,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: and the list goes on and on. So just pizza.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: It's it's a type of Unfortunately, my university and dorm
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: are located on the outskirts of town, not in the
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: ideal neighborhoods at these places usually don't deliver, but I
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: suppose that's fine. I don't hold her pizza very much
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: here as Pakistani pizza is kind of small and a
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: bit too cakey and very super bready, but it fills
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you up, um and you never leave hungry. I just
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: had a fairly tasty contraption from pizza point around five
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: hours ago for dinner. I can still feel it in
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: my throat less and learn you did not go to
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: bed in the morning, sleep until the evening, didn't order
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: excess food anyways. Love the show uh and lots of
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: love that is uh, nabiha see it? Thanks a lot,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's why to eat. Yeah see it? Well
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: maybe just said say, I bet it's a you'd we'll
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: find out right yep, thanks a lot for writing you.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Good luck with your studies, um and the pizza. Yeah.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: If you're in a foreign land and you're listening to
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: us and you have some four one one uh, as
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Nabia pointed out, NA be here right good. Uh. We
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: want to hear from it you uh, or we want
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: to hear about it from you. You can tweak to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: us at uh That's Why sk Podcast. You can join
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and you can send us an email to Stuff Podcast
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com. For more on this and thousands
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: of other topics, Is it how Stuff Works dot com
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: m