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Lancaster County Clean Water Plan: What's Next? with Mike Lasala · Clean Water Conversations

0:11
SPEAKER_04: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Clean Water Conversations, the podcast where we have casual discussions about creating clean and clear waterways right here in Langster County.
0:19
SPEAKER_04: I'm Ken.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Hey, everybody.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm Allison.
0:22
SPEAKER_04: Allison, we are right in the middle, right in the throes of the holiday season.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Holly Jolly, goodness.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Yay.
0:28
SPEAKER_04: There's so much going on.
0:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
0:31
SPEAKER_04: What are your favorite parts of the holiday season?
0:34
SPEAKER_01: I like the joy that it brings and the festivities and the uh energy that comes along with celebrations and traditions.
0:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: How about you?
0:42
SPEAKER_01: What are the favorite parts?
0:45
SPEAKER_04: Two things.
0:46
SPEAKER_04: One, the all the food that I should not eat that I do anyway.
0:49
SPEAKER_04: And the second one of this would be a surprise for a lot of people is I enjoy watching Hallmark holiday movies with my wife.
0:57
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
0:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she's she's gonna hold me to it now.
1:00
SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna be watching a lot of them.
1:02
SPEAKER_04: But uh I really do enjoy that.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I found a good one last weekend, so we'll swap stories.
1:07
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
1:08
SPEAKER_04: We'll we'll talk off mic.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: So that that's all any any parts of the holiday that you avoid.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I definitely avoid last minute shopping.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Not a fan of the panic moments as we get closer and closer.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I hear that.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: You uh about this about the same.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:23
SPEAKER_04: And I try to I try to avoid stress as much as anxiety and stuff as much as humanly possible.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: So isn't that like built into the holiday season?
1:31
SPEAKER_04: It kind of is.
1:31
SPEAKER_04: So it's is yeah, so it's not an easy target to hit, let me tell you.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Focus on those joys or the awesome things that are happening.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: Nice segue.
1:40
SPEAKER_04: What's on your list of awesomeness this week?
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Part of my list of awesomeness is this invitation that we got from Senator Sarah Alfreth in Maryland.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: So she's a Maryland legislator, but she invited us to share our stream delisting strategy on a showcase that she's hosting for a led piece of legislation called the Whole Watershed Act.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: It is Maryland legislation with Maryland money attached to it.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: And she invited a Pennsylvania group to be part of her showcase to talk about what's working here and what people in Maryland could do with this.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's just such an amazing piece of the narrative building, the local progress here, how that is spreading.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: And it's part of the momentum building.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: So really grateful for that chance to talk about the partner organization's success to a really unique audience.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: That is awesome.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:25
SPEAKER_04: Very appropriate.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: And your list of awesomeness includes.
2:28
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'll tell you, this week, the Department of Environmental Protection awarded the Countywide Action Plan or CAP.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: We're going to be using that acronym a lot.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: That'll come up a lot.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: So this one's covered.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: That's covered.
2:41
SPEAKER_04: Good.
2:41
SPEAKER_04: So this week, yeah, I'm going to go back and actually use it now.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: The Department of Environmental Protection, or DEP, awarded the CAP implementation grants for 2025 in Lancaster County was awarded$5.9 million.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Celebrations.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_04: Good stuff, good stuff.
3:04
SPEAKER_04: And that's just going to keep moving all these projects forward that are moving us towards clean and clear water.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: There's demand for this work, and the resources are flowing along with it.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: So we're really, really grateful for that support from DEP and the Environmental Protection Agency and the way that the CAP program through a block grant really makes that even easier.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: So we're going to spend a little bit more time learning about the CAP program and the CAP coordinator who has been helping us do that work for the last number of years.
3:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Mike Lasala, as you mentioned, is our CAP coordinator team lead.
3:41
SPEAKER_04: He brings expertise as a specialist and analyst and municipal separate storm sewer system.
3:49
SPEAKER_04: We'll get back into that one.
3:50
SPEAKER_04: System program manager at Land Studies Inc.
3:53
SPEAKER_04: He was an incredible conversation, entertaining guy, really, really smart guy.
3:59
SPEAKER_04: So let's hit it.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: I want to know this story.
4:03
SPEAKER_04: Wait, wait, you were on Starview.
4:05
SPEAKER_04: Starview 9270.
4:07
SPEAKER_04: That was awesome.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Things I didn't know.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: My radio name was Tanner Collins.
4:13
SPEAKER_04: I listened to you.
4:15
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
4:16
SPEAKER_04: That's wow.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: It was just it was just Tanner to start, but um, and that's when I did, I was in Florida and did um modern rock.
4:26
unknown: Yeah.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: So this is 90s.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: And uh when I came back up here to go to school, needed a job, went to 92 7, and they said because of the format, we we have to have full radio names, first and last name.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: And uh so the program director said, Hey, pick pick one out, we'll talk it over tomorrow, see what works.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: I wanted Tanner Van Halen.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: He said, let's go with let's go with Phil Collins, Tanner Collins.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: So, all right, that'll work.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: That'll work.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
5:04
SPEAKER_04: So where so did you study broadcast?
5:07
SPEAKER_04: No.
5:07
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: No, it just when I was in Florida, so before I went to school, I traveled a bit.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: And um I was bartending down in Florida.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: This is right after high school.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh just turned 21.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And uh we wanted to we needed to hire more bartenders, and and we had someone we liked, but we wanted them to go to bartending school.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: And it was an acronym, I can't recall exactly if it was ABC, I think, American Bar or ABA or something, American Bar Caddy Bartending Academy or something along those lines.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: And well, I called the wrong one, where it turned out it was like American Broadcasting Academy.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And and and um, and he's telling me the gentleman on the other line, no, I'm sorry, you you called the wrong number.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: And then he said, Well, hold on a second.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: I I like your voice, did you ever think of getting into radio?
6:00
SPEAKER_02: And I said, sure.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and so I I I did that.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: It was about a six-week course, and then before I knew it, I I was just sort of doing that as is helping pay for school and and wow, if you're just tuning in, Mike is absolutely blowing our minds right now.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean it was fun.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: I I was paid, I was paid to to play music and talk on the radio.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it was great.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So except for the one time I I left, it was a Saturday afternoon, and I left in in you know 92.7, the old Rose building by Laserdome.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: And apparently a bank had been robbed in Mount Joy or something while I was on the air.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: And I left, and apparently I matched the description.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: And I ended up pulled over.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: There was the police officer, a hand on the gun.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: There was about four cop cars surrounding my car.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: He was asking me all sorts of questions.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: I just thought it was a little weird, and then he he explained, Yeah, you're your your car and you match the description of uh a bank robbery, I believe it was.
7:06
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: Chalk that up under your your bucket list of crap you don't want to experience.
7:12
SPEAKER_04: Right, right, yeah, right.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they didn't get physical or anything, it just was it was just odd.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Mike, you are full of stories.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, there's probably something one one place or another, I've done something stupid.
7:24
SPEAKER_04: Keep them coming, man.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: Keep them coming.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: That just sounds fun.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, not the bank robbing.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
7:31
SPEAKER_04: You're gonna get yourself in trouble, you know, that maybe saying stuff like that.
7:36
SPEAKER_04: Well, let's start off with an icebreaker.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
7:40
SPEAKER_04: And your icebreaker question is this if you could give advice to your eight-year-old self and your 18-year-old self, what would it be?
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: It's quite a few, but I think, you know, right away with the eight-year-old, I would say something along the lines of when some of the kids call you weird, just smile and say thank you.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: Move on.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: Used to fight that one, you know, let's say we're in an 18-year-old.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, something I learned later in life, I think I wish I I would have learned earlier was embrace the mistakes.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: Make mistakes, embrace them.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Embrace them.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've learned so much more from making mistakes than than trying to be perfect.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's hard in the moment, but yes.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes, when you collect them all.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Now, yeah, now it's I never understood that.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: I'd I'd hear someone would say, I think it was a conversation with my mom.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: She's like, Wow, if you make these mistakes, you know, they'll fire you.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: And and I started thinking about that just from a business sense.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I want people to make mistakes.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't yeah, we don't want to fire them.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: They're probably gonna learn from their mistakes.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, mistakes are are learning experiences.
8:43
SPEAKER_04: That's great.
8:44
SPEAKER_04: That's great advice right there.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: So did you grow up in Lancaster County?
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, sorta.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: We moved here when I was uh 13, originally from the Pittsburgh area.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Moved here about 13, Lampeter Strasbourg, class in 92.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: And uh so sorta.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Sorta, you know, still when West Lampeder, I think there was about 115, 120 of us in my class, you know, and and wasn't developed.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: You could drive through about a dozen different farm fields that are all now developments, but but uh yeah, so sorta sorta from here.
9:20
SPEAKER_04: It's crazy how much the landscape around us changes so fast here.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: I remember driving, you know, this is like 1990.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: I remember driving from Willow Street to Neffsville, and time to just write.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could do it in about 15 minutes.
9:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, now it's I'm in Lidditz, I don't want to drive below Neffsville.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: It's like you know that's that's the outer limit now.
9:46
SPEAKER_04: People who aren't from the area right now are like, I am totally confused on what he's talking about.
9:52
SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: But look at the traffic patterns on the pikes, yeah.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: But Mike's our fellow Steelers fan.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yay, uh-huh.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: In the blood, absolutely nice, nice, and I think I'm about the one of the last 10 pirates fans still.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: So I still follow the pirates.
10:13
SPEAKER_04: Stick with them.
10:14
SPEAKER_04: You got a theme.
10:15
SPEAKER_04: I like it, I like it a lot.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: So, what did you want to be when you grew up?
10:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, there was probably a couple things, but I think everything always migrated back to I've always been fascinated with movies.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Love movies, yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: And not so much acting, but you know, the writing, the directing, the producing, the right, the camera, the sim cinematography, all the music.
10:36
SPEAKER_04: That's yeah, the production side of it.
10:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: I just always found that fascinating and always found myself getting enthralled and and and lost in movies and thought, man, it'd be fantastic to make movies.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:48
SPEAKER_04: So how do you go from an interest in movie production to the conservation world where you are now?
10:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to toot my own horn.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: I just have always had this insatiable thirst for knowledge, yeah.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: Learning.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: I just have always been that way.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: And um it just it it led me down this pike of physics and chemistry in in college.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Just you know, if if I could have had a quadruple or a sex tuplet major, I probably would have would have tried it.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: One semester, I remember I put all my classes Tuesday and Thursday.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: There's some advice to my 18-year-old self more is don't put all your classes on Tuesday and Thursday in college.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Which way you were gonna go with that?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Do it.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: That was a mistake.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: You know, I raised it still, but boy, that that those Tuesday and Thursdays were were rough that one semester.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: But I just find science fascinating.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, and initially I thought I I would be going a different route.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: And how I sort of dropped into the conservation world is whether you look at it as right place, right time, or wrong place, wrong time.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was when I was in California.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: It was working, and MS4 was a this was phase one, it's brand new.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: I hope you have replacement batteries.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: As soon as you start talking about MS-4, then it's it's uh you can hold a 10-minute conversation and acronyms in that one.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: So, what is and what does MS4 stand for?
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh nobody knows.
12:22
SPEAKER_04: No, it's it's uh municipal.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Because I got a buzz no one has municipal separate storm sewer system.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Now you can use it as much as you want.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Um it was brand new.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: It was up, you know, it was a phase one.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: NPDS was was fairly a brand new system.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Was a consultant working with uh already?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: What's that?
12:51
SPEAKER_03: What is PDS?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh, NPDS.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: NPDS.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Nobody knows.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, boy, get the batteries ready.
13:06
SPEAKER_04: Um we'll come back to that.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: We'll we'll come back to the acronym thing.
13:10
SPEAKER_04: Go ahead.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: So the it was a brand new program, and uh it was working as a uh consultant um and a contractor, and we we did a lot of work with the city of San Diego, and it was essentially you know, hey, here's here's this program, figuring it out.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, it and it it was a lot of trial and error, lessons learned, figuring out the program, what was expectations were from the state, from uh the environmental protection agency, EPA.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
13:36
SPEAKER_04: That one that one's free now, too.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, right on, right on.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: And and so it it it I learned a lot, and and it it was dealing with a lot with water quality, you know, and sort of that tie between land development, water quality, transportation infrastructure.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: And that just kind of set me up in the path that that I am today.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: And and I never thought I I would be down that path, but but here I am.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: And Mike, your work within that world or with that expertise, there's a lot that happens at land studies, but this whole idea of the countywide action plan and the coordinator role for the CAP and the implementation projects that go with it, how does how did you get there?
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Like what was the interest?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: What was the tie for you between that kind of expertise and this unique opportunity that came around right before COVID?
14:24
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think it aligned more, not so much in in the MS4 realm, but more of uh just say land studies mission or our mindset.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and we we've always had this grounded belief in that we we have these these three considerations when you you look at the world around us, and and that's you know, our community, our economic engine, and our ecological surroundings.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, that that's sort of the three components that that make up where we're at, that make us thrive, help us thrive, help us live, uh enjoy our surroundings.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: And we've always attempted to try and and balance those three.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't want to sacrifice one for another.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: And it's very easy to go down that rabbit hole where you you look at a situation and say, uh, nah no, don't worry about the community and the economic side, just the ecological.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: And vice versa.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Let's just look at the economic, who who cares?
15:22
SPEAKER_02: But we we've always sort of looked at that, those three components as primary considerations.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: And MS4 is just an element that that falls under that.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think at the same time, what the the CAP is attempting when we look at the state's program, the WIP, it's really trying to balance without saying it, those three.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: So there we go.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna get so distracting.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Watershed implementation plan for the TMDL.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Total maximum daily load.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna see how quick we're gonna get to the uh start.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: But uh uh the state's plan, you know.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Fortunately, what you know, a lot of times in our whether we we look at regulations, laws, ordinances, um, code, is the state or the feds essentially saying, you know, this is how you do it exactly.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: And what was nice about the cap was they said they heard our voice, I think specifically from Lancaster County, just through the work between, you know, originating with the consortium and built upon by the partners was essentially um, hey, we've we've got our own ideas, we we know our area, we know what works, and and what they provided was a framework that allowed us to do that.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: And and yet simultaneously, back when I talked about those those considerations under Land Studies Umbrella, I look at the cap or what the state was trying to achieve is really letting us figure out how do we balance that economic, that ecological, and that community considerations together, simultaneously moving ahead.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a big opportunity, and the creativity that we were able to put into it allowed it to be more personal and allowed it to be more locally driven.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So the way that Lancaster has approached it, we've got the Lancaster County Conservation District, Clean Water Partners, and then this contractual team.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: What would you describe as the primary goal of the coordinator with all of those, like the way Lancaster's done?
17:26
SPEAKER_01: We've brought all those people to this, but what would you describe the primary goal of the CAP coordinator is?
17:34
SPEAKER_02: I think the goal would be the same as just its its function.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: And I believe its chief function is more might be best described as a translator.
17:44
unknown: Okay.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Between the state and and the local.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: And and just to give a very, very basic example, um when you you look at the Bay program, you look at the efforts in the Chesapeake Bay, and you look at, well say, definitions of certain types of best management practices, BMPs.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, which we'll get into.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: I we need to change the term BMP anyway.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll get into best management practices.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: He did say that.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: He did say that.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's a definition, say, for some some practices that might go on a farm, but we call it something different locally.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: And we we we have to create that communication link or that transition, that translation for the information, the requirements, the data to go back and forth to sort of meet that that overarching bay program goal with what we want to achieve locally.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: So I think that function of the CAP coordinator team is is really simultaneously its goal.
18:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, makes sense.
18:45
SPEAKER_04: Well, that in mind, what would you say the group, the CAP coordinator team, has accomplished?
18:54
SPEAKER_02: I I think uh uh a lot with that translation, you know, a big one, a common example is is the way the data needs to go from the state to the bay program to to be measured in cast was is is a major function between that.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Cast is another acronym.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Jessopika Assessment Scenario tool.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's a modeling program.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Bay model.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Bay model.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: So CAST, technically, CAST is part of the Bay model.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, right, right.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: So CAST is our entry point for those best management practices.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: And the information that that needs to be tied to individual BMPs has to have certain attributes reported for the model to count it.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: So we we had to make that translation because there was different ways we captured data and information related to BMPs on the ground differently than maybe needs to be reported.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: So as part of that effort was to try and communicate, develop those we'll call quote unquote standards that that everybody could understand is coming down the pike, and everybody can start organizing their inventories in a particular manner to be able to report uh uh much more in real time and more complete data to get into the model.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Because we knew we had a lot of BMPs in the ground, just weren't reported, weren't weren't being counted.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: Was something we noticed.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: Now is that held against us?
20:23
SPEAKER_04: If they're if they're seeing far fewer projects or far fewer BMPs that are being installed, do they say, wait a minute, you guys are falling behind?
20:33
SPEAKER_04: Is that or is that the reaction for that?
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Um yes and no, maybe sorta is is a better.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: It's not that anybody is sort of holding the feet to the fire of you guys aren't aren't doing this, specifically, say Lancaster County.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: It was inherently understood that we we've had a reporting problem for decades.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: We just did not have the infrastructure in place to correctly report.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: There's a double-edged storage in there because now that we were getting the BMPs in, we're reporting better, and that's constantly improving.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: There's a continuous reporting function that needs to occur now.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: And some of those are annual, sometimes five-year cycles, some are ten-year cycles.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: And say a five-year BMP with a five-year cycle doesn't get reported, the model doesn't recognize it anymore and kicks it out.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: So it's important to stay on top of those those reporting cycles of the BMPs we've captured.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: So it's not so much someone saying, Oh, you, you know, you you're doing terrible.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: It's uh, hey, we're we're seeing some of the BMPs going down and realizing that's that's telling us a story locally.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we we were maybe need to pick up the uh the the ball a little bit here on on capturing some some verifications.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Mike, you play the cap coordinator role or serve as the cap coordinator role for a couple different counties.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think having a CAP coordinator team helps Lancaster achieve more?
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh, just it makes sure already has the the bullseye, so to speak, on us.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Um we we are uh a a different animal.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: That mix of development and farmland is is rare.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: How much we we have mixed here.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: And because we have, what is it, 5,000 plus farms, but we have a population over half a million.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's not a common condition you're gonna find in a lot of places.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: So it becomes much more, whether you want to call it, challenging to sort of manage those economic, community, and ecological considerations.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Because you you can have what easily could be competing forces against each other.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: So a team is much more appropriate just due to the fact the the the magnitude of all the development and the number of farms we have here.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think the team approach in Lancaster has required different types of expertise.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: And I I should say the team has allowed that expertise to be part of it.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: It's not like we're leaning on one person to do all of it.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate that about the way that all of the members have come together and the way that you have helped that help facilitate that.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: So yes, not a problem.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm here for.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
23:22
SPEAKER_04: Now, Lancaster, like you said, Lancaster has the had has the target on it.
23:27
SPEAKER_04: Um, what kind of messaging does the rest of the Chesapeake Bay watershed need to hear from the CAP coordinator team?
23:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they need to hear anything else from us.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the one thing, so I do help other counties.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest, a lot of times I'll hear, you know, something along the lines of, does the state understand we're not Lancaster County?
23:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's due to, you know, there's limited resources, it's different conditions.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: So you know, I think maybe reworking that if we we had to communicate a message, is you know, what we set up in Lancaster County is what works for Lancaster County.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: What you need to do is don't try and mimic us, but find what works for for you to implement.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the the message, hopefully, other counties pick up on.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Anything for the Chesapeake Bay audience, so people beyond Pennsylvania.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: And we like Kenya, you've worked so hard this year about building that narrative of local success and making sure that it's not the bullseye as the headline, it's more that we're the biggest opportunity to see this restoration.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing it.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Like the changes are happening, the water quality is improving, the momentum is growing.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So I hear what you're saying that we don't want to push that in a negative way on other places.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: That's not the expectation for every county in Pennsylvania.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: But feel like we need to continue telling the story of progress, that it's not Pennsylvania's behind or Lancaster is the biggest nutrient loading.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: We don't know that anymore.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we're working on it, but it is about the the progress too, I guess.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And but I think it's also it it's maybe it's a a safety check or just a quick checkpoints on progress, is these efforts take years.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe this is this is as bad to me to say, but I remember when the Bay TMDL came out in 2010 and they said 2025.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: I was still young in the industry, but I sort of chuckled to myself, that's not happening.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is it's easy to damage something, but you've got to take twice as long to fix any any damage you've done.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: And and I I think that's important with uh just Bay wide is is we're not gonna have everything fixed by this exact date.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's right, that's more of a personal opinion where our we have a lot of knowledge, and and I'm part of uh a group, the water quality goal implementation team under the uh the Bay program, water quality get.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: And when when I I usually I'm just sitting there listening because there's there's so much knowledge, so much capability with that group, a lot of great insight and and work, but simultaneously, you know, I'm always trying to look at the pros and cons of everything, and and I feel sometimes we trap ourselves, and we're guilty of this at land studies as well.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: And I think even within the cap world of of saying, oh, we can control the environment.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we kind of get that we yeah we can do this by 2025 and everything's fixed.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's arrogant to believe that we've we have that much capability over Mother Nature.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: So it's just knowing that this it takes time.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: You just it's very counterintuitive to say don't place a target end date.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: It's an ongoing process.
26:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:53
SPEAKER_04: I like how the wording right now is beyond 2025, that it seems like that's really being embraced that we're gonna keep working on this and maybe or maybe not set set a deadline.
27:06
SPEAKER_04: I guess time will tell on that one.
27:07
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we we have our message of clean and clear by 2040.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: But I think that is a far more reasonable, far more likely deadline that we can get all this work done.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and but I think uh to look at it too is is the beyond 2025, I think as good as even when you're considering the 2040 as the local goal is interim milestone.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: Interim step.
27:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: That that it's it's an ongoing process.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: I think what's happened in the past six to ten years, when you you look at not just Lancaster County, but Bay wide is is uh the the progress.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Like you you mentioned, Allison, where um there's where we've sort of shifted from third to fourth gear.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, there might be a fifth gear, but it's sort of we're we're cruising now.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: We don't want to downshift.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we want to find that cruising speed and understand that that those future dates are just it's a checkpoint of up, we're in fourth gear.
28:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's okay, now let's let's look at what let's outline what we're gonna do to 2070 or or something along those lines.
28:11
SPEAKER_04: I love that analogy, that gear analogy.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: That's good.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, and the cap is a tool for us with Bay related numbers.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, the deadlines are set for Bay goals.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: In Lancaster, we have this cap as a tool for that, but it's also just one part of it.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Going for cleaning clear by 2040.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: The cap is something that not everybody is paying attention to.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Or I remember I know that we talk to partner organizations that are like, why is 2025 matter?
28:39
SPEAKER_01: It's in their normal world, it doesn't mean anything.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a tool that helps rally people, it puts numbers on things, it gives some interim deadlines, but it is a important piece of the collaborative approach here that not everybody is paying attention to 2025 for the same reason.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: There's this great image from Stroud, a slide about timelines, like you're saying, of how much we're trying to achieve within this small amount of time.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: And it acknowledges the hundreds of years of land use changes that we've done and industrial revolutions and the Dust Bowl, all of these things that have happened to change our landscape.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And then we're trying to do this little bitty part at the end to restore all of it.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Phenomenal cosmic powers, living space.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: That should be on the cover of the cat.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: The genie.
29:38
SPEAKER_04: We'll work on that for the next one.
29:42
SPEAKER_04: Which is a great segue because in in 2024 we updated the information in the cap booklet, which you can download, by the way, on our website at LancasterCleanwaterpartners.com.
29:52
SPEAKER_04: Um and you provided a lot of those stats, like how close we are to to meeting the various goals uh towards the watershed implementation plan, or WIP, as we already said, uh their 2025 deadlines.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: Um can you give us like a kind of a high overview of those goals?
30:10
SPEAKER_04: Like what is what are the expectations?
30:14
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of those those numbers, the expectations were were sort of simultaneously developed based on state recommendations and conversations at the local level, what we felt was important, what we wanted to focus on, what we felt was achievable.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: And when we first did that, it was limited data for us to be able to sort of figure out what was realistic versus aspirational, maybe.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: And and there was, in all honesty, probably a little bit of dart throwing at a board, coming up coming up with numbers.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: But you know, and that was now what six, six years ago, six, seven years ago.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: And in that time, the the number of tools, uh, the amount of data that's been collected has, I hate to sound like a cliche, exponentially increased.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: For us to start measuring or trying to dial in a more realistic, excuse me, vision of what is achievable, where are we headed?
31:14
SPEAKER_02: And so there's just multiple practices across the board.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of them we've we've had to refine.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: We specifically did that about a year ago, where you know, we thought as an example, we we know the benefits of riparian buffers.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: So it was, ah, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get thousands upon thousands of acres.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: And you know, and as we were able to collect more data, it was, well, we we don't have that many acres that exist.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: So we we need to dial that back some, actually.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: And and that's what we've done across the across the numbers.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: And and I think, you know, I'm the first to say, yes, we we like to live in that world where there's this this target of 3,000 acres of riparian buffers.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: And and I actually hate those those targets and in that way.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: It's want to look at it more of the progress, where are we trending and maintaining that those those types of BMPs?
32:08
SPEAKER_02: And and are they, if we go back to the the notion about community, ecological, economic, is I believe what we're we're seeing more on the ground and and whether the CAP coordinator team and the partners, I think we we indirectly and directly support those efforts when we look at the delisting strategy and those local efforts that are happening is not trying to shoehorn buffers or different types of BMPs into every scenario to start looking at it is balancing those three considerations of what makes sense for this very specific local spot.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, to to balance those considerations.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: And I'm seeing that more and more.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I hate those targets, because when you have those targets and you're finding opportunities, you're like, ah, get get more of this BNP in the ground.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: So you raise the number, and it's like, well, that that might not make sense for that specific cow.
33:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's why I I like I understand the numbers.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's it's showing progress, but but it's it's that double-edged sword.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: I hate them at the same time that we're sometimes we we don't focus on what what should happen right here.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, and the piece about the cap is that DEP gave each county a number for nitrogen and phosphorus reductions.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: Did we say what Department of Environmental Protection?
33:31
SPEAKER_01: I'll allow it.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: Your graceful numbers today.
33:38
SPEAKER_03: I think I'm up like eight zip on those.
33:42
SPEAKER_04: My my buttons getting tired over here.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: They gave us these numbers that are yes, the way we were gonna accomplish or reach those numbers, we had to be aspirational and somewhat realistic.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: But now with this chance to in 2024 to revise those, it was so extremely helpful to have your expertise to say this number doesn't make sense.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Or to also kind of help us gauge what our realistic um the reality of the pace needs to be.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: And to be okay saying we're not gonna meet that.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: It's it's more important to have a tool that's useful and realistic than something that it just has these massive numbers that no, we're not gonna get there, or no, there's not enough acres to actually make that goal.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and that that was sort of born out of even how we handle MS4 programs.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: When we we talk to municipalities, we'll say, Well, why should I measure the water quality?
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Because if I if I measure it, you know, now I'm gonna be beholden to it or I have to do something.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: And I and I would tell them, I said, You're you're more likely to get in trouble for ignoring it and not addressing the reality versus actually looking at it and understanding what your condition is and just having a long-term plan.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: And that's what we're trying to do with the cap with the numbers, is find out more realistically what actually is out there, what could happen and and and adjust it, and it'll constantly trend.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: It'll constantly adjust for for more years.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's where I think it comes back around to that team approach, that you couldn't write a plan like that if you only had one person or if you were only using one perspective, and especially like you said, with the diverse land uses in Lancaster and the diverse needs that we have and all of the different partner organizations doing this work, it wouldn't be the same tool.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: So getting the numbers more realistic for the last year and a half is really important.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: And then knowing that whatever CAP two is going to be, or I guess it's phase four of the web at this point, um, will be beyond 2025.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Um but see, yep.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And we'll we'll adjust the number, you know, whether I think it's it's appropriate that we we continue whether that that document's in front of us or not, right?
36:02
SPEAKER_02: It's created a tool for us to help just understand what for us to a thermometer.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Not an exact temp, but gives us a thermometer of what what's been happening and and what we're looking at.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: But I do remember when DEP invited us to play this role when they introduced the idea of a cap coordinator.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: We as the Lancaster Clean Water Partners, it was really early in our existence, and the steering committee was which served as our initial board basically.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: When they came together and heard this invitation, they were like, Really?
36:36
SPEAKER_01: So what's gonna be different?
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Or what are we gonna get in return for this?
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Or what is the reality of the expectation gonna be then if we do this, say yes now, what's a year from now?
36:47
SPEAKER_01: So I remember going up to Harrisburg and we sat around with all of the secretaries and we said, we're like, so what's gonna be different?
36:54
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna give us in in return?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: And at the time, it wasn't like here, we can give you a check.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: It was it was okay, we'll look at permitting differences, we'll look at processes, capacity, the kind of training, the kind of dollars that we can move around.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's been one of those things over time as well.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: So the cap coordinator role was not something that we were all like, yeah, sure, sign me up right now.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: And those those programmatic challenges are still in front of us.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, simultaneously.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: It's there's a lot of aspiration, or we we understand the weaknesses or the changes that that could be helpful, but but change is hard.
37:36
SPEAKER_03: It is.
37:37
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, one of the best documents that that have come out of the base side, at least in my opinion, was the the Caesar comprehensive evaluation of system response report.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: You're learning.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: I am.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: You can teach an old dog new tricks.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: But uh it talks about a lot of concepts that I believe we've we've played with or or have have thought about, but it outlined it in a very well laid out manner, how how this could look like.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: And and we're still trying to pursue components or elements explained in the in that report, but it's it's not a simple sign-off.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: It'll take time.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: But that's I think the cap as the cap coordinator team is it's just an an ongoing process trying to get those changes, whether it's it's permitting changes or the notion of sandboxing, is there but those different things?
38:32
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be an overnight approval and it's a constant, constant conversation to get us to that point down the road.
38:39
unknown: Yeah.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: I would like to give, I'm picturing Jill on our podcast recently, and I do want to give a shout out because they really have shifted to people, projects, and progress as things that they're focused on.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: And that shows up in a couple of different ways, but the consistent support for a CAP coordinator team, like funding dedicated for it, is a piece that makes a lot of this even possible, even something to consider.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: And so that looks really different in every county, but in Lancaster, that has made a huge it's been a huge part of why we've been successful.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being part of our CAP coordinator team and the lead for a big chunk of that all along the way.
39:18
SPEAKER_04: No worries.
39:21
SPEAKER_04: Can you give some examples of successful projects over the past year?
39:27
SPEAKER_02: I I believe it's it's everything that went in, but it's also simultaneously, you know, why I say everything that went in, and my comparable isn't last year or 2022 or 2021.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: I I look at it again, remember, when we talk about improvements or focusing on that ecological consideration, these are 20, 50, 100-year efforts.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking at it from the standpoint of the amount of projects that went in last year compared to say 2015 and then 2000 and then 85, 1985, and then even the you know the 1950s, you know, what has happened over that time?
40:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think the fact that we have these types of projects and these number of projects actually going into the ground relative to, say, when I look back at 1960, that is just to me an absolute success.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: That within, you know, what is it now, 60 years, this complete paradigm shift uh of to me is is it's representative, all those projects are just part of that story of that full paradigm shift over that time frame.
40:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:40
SPEAKER_04: In thinking about time, there are a lot of BMPs that are going to require maintenance and upkeep.
40:47
SPEAKER_04: Is is there anything in the the plans for that part of it?
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes and no.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: We know it needs addressed, we know it needs to happen, uh, but we we do have, I'll say, resource limitations to maybe fully realizing that.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: But I believe most understand it's necessary because we we have gone through a portion of this paradigm when we look at facilities.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: So what we want to correct that, you know, and hopefully we are, I think even the state is gonna the PCSM post-construction stormwater management manual.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: We know we know it's necessary, and you have buy-in or more recognition from a lot of folks, but there's there's resource limitations.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: Even a lot of the current funding streams don't allow, say, uh, you know, maintenance.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: So times maybe we'll try and get creative in what we we might call it, you know, you know, ongoing implementation, maybe is you know, some of that effect to to we know it needs to happen because we there's a lot of facilities that were implemented in the 80s, 90s, they were built, and I can't tell you how I've found a lot that just were never maintained.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: There was one, I believe, in Lidditz.
42:11
SPEAKER_02: In in downtown Lidditz, we found this basin, detention basin, that's completely overgrown.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: Nobody knew it was there.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Nobody was just everybody forgot about it from 30 years ago, and it was holy mackerel, we've we've got a detention basin here.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and we got it all cleaned out and operational again.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: But it's understood there there was a lot of facilities where that that was a resulting condition.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: We forgot about the maintenance.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: So it's a lesson learned, and I think a lot of people recognize yeah, we we need to continue this maintenance.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Success of those now I don't even know what to call them.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: Facilities.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Facilities?
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Projects, facilities, yeah, it requires more than just the initial cost, I suppose.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Like a riparian buffering.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: That's a facility.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: The practice is that you're you're creating a condition to handle runoff or stabilize a stream.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: That's the best manager practice.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: And and then that practice, there could be 12 different types of facilities to do that.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: You have you know the floodplain restoration, standard stream restoration, just by pairing buffer, uh, structures, um, deflection, deflectors, you know, devices.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's so many different ways you can achieve that practice with a number of different facilities, but that's I'm just a stickler with with definitions of time.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: So that's it's always my when I came back from from California, it always threw me off when everybody was saying, ah, we're we're putting a BMP in.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, really what?
43:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's a detention basin.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh that's what?
43:43
SPEAKER_02: That's not a practice.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: What was the thing in the the BMP analytics document that you've said you were such a stickler for the difference between accuracy and Precision.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: Precision.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we and we were trying to, that was Is part of that metric story is we were trying to improve both accuracy and precision, where we were we were treating them separately but not congruently to together.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: So the, you know, and and we we defined the accuracy as the actual number of BMPs in the ground or could be in the ground, and precision was essentially what is the framework it can operate in.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: So when I like when I talked about the riparian buffers, we we had aspirational numbers, and the precision was saying, well, no, your maximum limit is probably this amount.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: And so that that was trying to help the two numbers align.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Ken's marketing and communications brain is like on overdrive right now.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: How do I explain this?
44:44
SPEAKER_01: It makes so much sense.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: I just pulled that out of a hat.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
44:51
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for the content you have provided.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: That's how we came up with the metrics, too.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: I just took a bingo wheel and just pulled out numbers.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: So what are the things that we need to prioritize for 2025?
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Like as a cap coordinator, the projects themselves, like the implementation money is one thing, but capacity building, leadership provided, what is the cap coordinator's biggest priority, you think, in 25?
45:20
SPEAKER_02: I believe it's a it's gonna end up being, and we don't have a clear picture or maybe the details yet, but we know it's coming related to beyond 2025.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: And the next MS4 permit.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: And then whatever the farm bill looks like.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: Is these these three components, amongst maybe several others, it's I don't want to say it's a rewrite of the cap of our goals, but it's it's gonna be necessary in whether we call it tweaking or reprioritization or whatever it is, there's there's gonna be this adjustment in 2025 to sort of mirror those higher goals or objectives from the Fed and state level and the Bay program that that we need to make sure we align with.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: So it's not so much recreating what we do, it's again, it's back to that CAP coordinator team, is that translator.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: It's aligning maybe those change in goals and objectives with what we're already doing.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: We don't want to upset the Apple cart of what we're doing locally.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna have to find a way to better align it or translate.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: I love that because there's there's gonna be different legislation that shows up.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a whole new administration.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: So there's gonna be changes.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: So being aware of it, knowing where to align, where to translate, and the right audiences for that.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: You're right, the cap coordinator is the team to be kind of scanning things more often and then bringing the right pieces down to the group grassroots level or the grass tops level.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: And where does that show up then?
46:52
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
46:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:55
SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of work being done.
46:56
SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of BMPs being implemented.
47:00
SPEAKER_04: How can our listeners get involved or actively participate in helping to achieve those cap goals?
47:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's a a a tougher question to answer than I think most it's awareness.
47:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean it's it's that's still a challenge is building awareness.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: It's it's very easy in in our environment, in our culture, to be lost in either that economic engine or that community engine.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, to sacrifice one for the other.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: And and it leads to apathy.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: And and that's just an ongoing challenge.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: And and just being, if there's anything I could say, it's just awareness of how those elements intertwine and and what we're trying to do to make sure they they balance that that economic, that community, that ecological, that that that's a constant effort to make sure we we balance those.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: And just being aware of that effort, I think, is more important than than anything else.
48:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and why I say that is you know, lessons learned, it's great.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: We we went all in on recycling, but now we've run into we and we went in in a way that it's you know, we're we're building like a trash mound of recyclables now.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, because we went in and it and I think a lesson learned is is if we would have stuck with awareness about use, I believe that could have created a much better long-term outcome than than just you know creating the bins and just still getting whatever you want and doing it.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: It's just being aware that we we do have ecological challenges, but we're not trying to let that dictate economic and community, where we're trying to balance the three.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
48:51
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
48:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:53
SPEAKER_04: That is not the answer I thought you were gonna give.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: What did you think I was gonna give?
48:56
SPEAKER_04: Oh, well, with uh my uh brain immediately immediately goes to volunteering.
49:00
SPEAKER_04: Ah help to make this stuff happen.
49:02
SPEAKER_04: But your answer was very insightful.
49:05
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
49:06
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, yeah.
49:07
SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you.
49:08
SPEAKER_04: I like that.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think it speaks to why this resonates, the cap idea or a collaborative approach resonates in Lancaster because things like Water Week, things like the watershed associations, there are ways that people can find out about more or at least be aware.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: The theory of education is that will lead to action.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: We have to provide some of those on-ramps, but you're right.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: If people aren't aware of it, they're not gonna care and then they're not gonna take action.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: So we need to put it in front of people more often.
49:40
SPEAKER_02: And people react to incentives more.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: And and and unfortunately, incentives in the ecological realm are a lot tougher than, say, the the economic realm.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, and we're also used to instant gratification right now.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: That's where I think of like your recycling example.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: We didn't focus as much on reduce and reuse.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Recycling was I can put it in the bin and I did my thing and I'm done and I can walk away.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: Being yeah, aware of okay, what does it mean to have dirty water in Lancaster?
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then I'll start to explore putting a rain garden in my own property.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: Those sort of like the rain barrels.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: I remember we went well, we went all in on rain barrels.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say that's they're as adoptive as they've been in the past, because I think I said 15 years ago when we we were talking about there was used push.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: I said, hey, you know, whoever figures out how to reuse leftover rain barrels has got to make a killing down the road.
50:40
SPEAKER_04: We might be there, but all of a sudden we have these new fangled sleds being used during the winter or anywhere.
50:48
SPEAKER_04: All right.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Trivia time.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: Yes, we have come to my favorite part of the show, and that is trivia.
51:00
SPEAKER_04: All right.
51:00
SPEAKER_04: Now I need to tell a little backstory.
51:02
SPEAKER_04: We were in a meeting yesterday with you.
51:04
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
51:04
SPEAKER_04: Uh ironically, a cap coordinate.
51:06
SPEAKER_04: Wait, you were there on the I wasn't.
51:08
SPEAKER_04: I was hiding in the corner trying to blend in.
51:11
SPEAKER_04: No.
51:12
SPEAKER_01: We weren't on Zoom, so we're going to see the box around his head.
51:15
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
51:16
SPEAKER_04: Isn't it so different when you see some people in real life and not Zoom?
51:20
SPEAKER_04: It is amazing.
51:21
SPEAKER_04: And I noticed yesterday, the same as we did today, that you use a lot of acronyms.
51:26
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
51:27
SPEAKER_04: And we have done this one before.
51:30
SPEAKER_04: This is the return of acronym trivia.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: I'm going to call it Acronym Trivia 2.
51:34
SPEAKER_04: Acronym strikes back.
51:36
SPEAKER_04: Oh, geez.
51:36
SPEAKER_04: There we go.
51:38
SPEAKER_04: And the way this works, and you've actually used a few of these already, so you are going to crush this.
51:43
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
51:43
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
51:44
SPEAKER_04: I am I am just hovering my finger over the ding ding button right now.
51:49
SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, I'm going to give you the acronym.
51:51
SPEAKER_04: You tell me what it stands for.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:53
SPEAKER_02: All right.
51:54
SPEAKER_02: TMDL.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: Total maximum daily load.
51:59
SPEAKER_02: Ah.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: I'll be here all week.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: CREP or CREP.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: Conservation Resource Enhancement Program.
52:10
unknown: So close.
52:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm going to give it to him.
52:12
SPEAKER_04: It's actually Conservation Reserve Enhancement Program.
52:16
SPEAKER_04: But you were close enough that I would take that.
52:18
SPEAKER_04: FSA.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that one.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: I just know of it, but I I don't know.
52:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it is.
52:28
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
52:31
SPEAKER_04: All right.
52:31
SPEAKER_04: It is the Farm Service Agent Farm Service Agency, which is run through the USDA.
52:37
SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
52:37
SPEAKER_04: So that having that wait, that having been said, what does USDA stand for?
52:43
SPEAKER_02: United States Department of Agriculture.
52:45
SPEAKER_04: That's correct.
52:46
SPEAKER_04: Back on track.
52:47
SPEAKER_04: Back on track.
52:48
SPEAKER_04: How about PACD?
52:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh Pennsylvania Association of Conservation Districts.
52:56
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
52:58
SPEAKER_04: LSI.
53:00
SPEAKER_02: Land Studies Incorporated.
53:04
SPEAKER_04: I love the look on your face when I'm talking about.
53:07
SPEAKER_04: Wait a minute.
53:11
SPEAKER_04: GG.
53:12
SPEAKER_02: Growing greener.
53:14
SPEAKER_04: Or if you're a gamer out there, it's also a good game.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, growing greener is what I want to do.
53:19
SPEAKER_02: Or if you want to throw people off, GG Plus.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: Plus sign.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:24
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
53:26
SPEAKER_04: How about DCNR?
53:29
SPEAKER_02: Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.
53:32
SPEAKER_04: That is correct.
53:34
SPEAKER_04: K10.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: Keystone 10 million trees.
53:39
SPEAKER_04: It absolutely is, yeah.
53:41
SPEAKER_04: And you said this one earlier, so obviously you know it.
53:44
SPEAKER_04: Cast.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: Chesapeake Assessment Scenario Tool.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: I told you you were getting crushed.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: You're going to be just a section of all employees orientation now.
53:57
SPEAKER_04: We use a lot of acronyms here.
54:00
SPEAKER_04: Listen to this podcast.
54:02
SPEAKER_04: I'll fill you in.
54:03
SPEAKER_04: LCWF.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: LCWF?
54:08
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: Little Conestoga Water Federation.
54:17
SPEAKER_04: Langster Clean Water Fund.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gotcha.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay, huh?
54:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: Throwing a curveball in there.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: And then we have NBD.
54:26
SPEAKER_02: NBD.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: I won't say like national basketball division, but I bet I stopped that.
54:34
SPEAKER_04: It's no big deal.
54:35
SPEAKER_04: Ah, right on.
54:38
SPEAKER_04: And that's it.
54:38
SPEAKER_04: That's our trivia.
54:39
SPEAKER_04: Right on.
54:40
SPEAKER_04: Right on.
54:41
SPEAKER_04: You did kill it.
54:41
SPEAKER_04: You did kill it.
54:43
SPEAKER_04: I threw a couple of uh curveballs in there for you.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: So that's good trivia.
54:50
SPEAKER_04: Well, that is our show.
54:52
SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Mike.
54:53
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for coming on here.
54:55
SPEAKER_04: And uh oh, yeah, some some great conversation, and we have a lot in common, and that's that made it even more fun.
55:01
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
55:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Cap coordinator team is pretty unique, important part of Lancaster.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
55:06
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
55:07
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
55:08
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
55:08
SPEAKER_04: Well, we will be back in just a couple of weeks.
55:12
SPEAKER_04: Until then, take care.
55:18
SPEAKER_04: Cleanwater Conversations is brought to you by Lancaster Clean Water Partners.
55:22
SPEAKER_04: If you have comments or suggestions on show topics, please contact us at infolancaster cleanwaterpartners.com.
55:29
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for listening.