Latest / Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive / October 26, 2017 | Men Of Success - Fall 2017, Session 6 - Drive

Transcript

October 26, 2017 | Men Of Success - Fall 2017, Session 6 - Drive · Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive

0:00
SPEAKER_01: We'd like to welcome everyone here today.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming back.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming here early.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Paul's not here today, so I'm your impromptu uh announcement person or uh introduction person.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh we're reading or we're just discussing a book called Drive Today, What Motivates People by Daniel Pink.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I did not read it.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: I watched a short YouTube video about it, and uh it was very interesting what I saw, so I'm really excited to hear what the gurus up here have to say.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: We'd like to thank uh Tom and all of the people that came.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: If you if you came in early today to help, raise your hand up.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't know who it was, no one.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Hey Tom, good job, Tom.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: All right, uh and his team.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: But hopefully, uh it says the the subtitle of the book is The Surprising Truth About What Motivates People.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: So hopefully we'll learn a little bit about what motivates us and what motivates other people around us, and hopefully we'll have a really good study.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Derek, how are you doing this morning?
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jason.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: And hey, we hear that uh the sound and uh video or whatever isn't really good in the back.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh can you guys, Tim, Jerry, Brian, can you guys hear us back there?
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
1:15
unknown: Turn it up a little bit.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, turn it up a little bit like that.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Is that better?
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Here we go.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Ball game.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Good.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of ball game, what a ball game last night.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Um it uh was the game two of Houston Astros LA.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Who's rooting for Hill Houston here?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Anyone else?
1:33
SPEAKER_00: You like me?
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Who's rooting for the Dodgers?
1:35
SPEAKER_00: That's about oh, okay.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: And who doesn't who doesn't care?
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh last everyone else.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's predicting, most people predicting the Dodgers would win, and uh because the home teams, they have the home home field advantage, and the home teams, uh in fact, neither one of those teams has been defeated at home in the postseason this year.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh last night's game, uh, I just watched the first few innings.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh Houston was up 1-0.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Went to the 11th inning with a two-run homer by uh Houston uh in the 11th.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Dodgers got one run back, but I was listening to uh to a Dodgers announcer last night who said it's the worst loss uh that in his memory in 30 years, uh game that they should have won.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: They were up in the ninth inning, and uh and uh Houston tied it with a home run.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: There were something like eight home runs hit.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: So the series is one to one now, right?
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Going back to Houston.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: So pretty exciting.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: It'll be good.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, like they said, we're in a book uh written by Dan Pink called Drive.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Um we've both got it.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: It's uh 288 pages.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: It's uh one of the longer books.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: This uh is for me um the most um I I don't mean life-changing, mind-changing book that we've read so far.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna take two weeks on it because it's really rich.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And I have thought about uh since I finished this book several weeks ago, I think about this book more than any of the other books we've read.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: It's really altering my thinking about motivation.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think one of the one of the interesting things that he points out in this book is something that we all experience on a regular basis, at least in my opinion, but we don't spend a lot of time thinking about it or analyzing the what's come out of the research as far as motivation, what motivates you, what motivates other people to ultimately do their best for the long term?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: How did P so as we're going through this today, and we'll uh we'll take it right from the start with his illustrations.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Um ask yourself how was I motivated as a kid to get good grades or to behave or to make my bed?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Ask how do I motivate my children or my employees or my students or the people around me?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And uh ask, how am I motivating?
4:05
SPEAKER_00: How am I motivated?
4:06
SPEAKER_00: What kind of a person am I today?
4:09
SPEAKER_00: So uh this is this is a huge topic, not a topic we've covered yet.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: No, this is the very first, and I would imagine there aren't too many conversations going on specifically about motivation, really in any of our circles on any kind of regular basis.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: But it's absolutely funny.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: So he starts off with a story that uh took place in the 60s of how uh a scientist named Harlow, actually in the 40s, uh, when a scientist named Harlow got eight Rhesus monkeys, and he decided to test their curiosity, and so he dropped into their into their pen a puzzle lock that had three steps.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: You needed to pull out the pin in order to be able to disconnect the latch, and then you lift up the lock.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: So uh he was surprised to find out that he came back an hour later or something and they'd solved the puzzle.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: And so he locked it up again, and he found they were just really excited about solving this puzzle, and they would go down the wall and they would solve these puzzles.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, this didn't this just sort of didn't make sense because scientists knew that two main drives seemed to power behavior.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: First drive, biological.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: We're driven by our need naturally.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Cavemen have been driven by their need for sex, for food, for um, you know, water, stuff like that.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Biological survival needs.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: And and then especially we learned later on in like in the industrial period, there's this external motivation.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: People are motivated by rewards and by punishments.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: You see a carrot there and a stick.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: But neither one of these drives, uh uh, and and of course, uh we know these drives because they're our drives, not just monkey drives, uh, biological drives.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: That's uh he calls it motivation 1.0, and rewards and punishments, motivation 2.0 at work.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, the boss offers you more money or offers you a bonus if you'll do something, or offers you public praise, or uh there's some sort of a prize or a cup.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: This last Sunday, my son, uh my eight-year-old grandson was on the winning team over at Sunflower in a soccer deal, and I've never seen it's first time he's won this sort of an award around his neck.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And we took loads of pictures because we've never seen him beam so excitedly for a worthless little bobble around his neck.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: But it's just so exciting.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And these rewards and punishments start for us early in life.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: You study hard in order to get a good grade, or else you get disciplined by your parents if you get F's, right?
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Rewards and punishments.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: You compete in a sport to win an award, you participate in a contest to win a prize, you complete a work project to receive a promotion.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: But neither one of these two drives explained the monkey behavior, right?
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And so uh what he thought was, well, it it would make sense, however, uh, that maybe there's a third drive, then that the joy of a task can be its own reward.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: That sometimes we do things just because they're fun.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: But surely, Harlow thought to himself, this third drive would be subordinate to the other two drives.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Like if we reward the monkeys with food, and they solve the they'll solve the puzzle even quicker, right?
7:30
SPEAKER_00: So he gave them raisins for solving the puzzle.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: And it turned out they solved it even worse.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: They became less interested, they uh they were confused.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: So that called into question.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: He wrote a paper in about 1950 saying this calls into question this this idea that rewarding an activity will always get you more of it, and punishing an activity will always get you less of it.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Nobody touched that for about 10 or 20 years, and then somebody came along in 69 with what he called a Soma Cube experiments.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: There that was, I think that's that's still a game on the market, Soma Cubes.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something like that.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember playing it.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh so cubes, uh cubes, there they're like three, four-sided cubes, different cubes, and you can form them into something like 10,000 different arrangements.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: And so he got, I think, some college students and he put them in a room and he put these cubes in the room, and and uh and he put them in two different groups, group A and group B.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: He gave them no reward in day one, just said, work on these things for eight minutes if you want to.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And he also put magazines in the room like Time and Playboy and so forth.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And so this was the late 60s or something like that, the 50s.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: And so he got some of them to do it and some of them not.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And and they came up with about an equal number of things.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: On day two, he offered a cash reward to one group, and they worked really hard, and they got loads of uh of things accomplished with the cubes.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: The group B did about the same as they did on day one.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: On day three, it was no reward, back to no reward again, and group A pretty much just stopped working.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Having been offered a reward for doing something, they no longer cared about it now that no longer was there any reward.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Whereas group B actually worked a little bit more now that they knew what they were doing.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: He concluded, they concluded, quote, when money is used as an external reward for some activity, subjects lose intrinsic interest for the activity.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Rewards can deliver a short-term boost, just as a jolt of caffeine can keep you cranking for a few hours.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: But the effect wears off and worse, can reduce your long-term motivation.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Intrinsic motivation, he concluded, is fragile.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: To develop and enhance intrinsic motivation in children, employees, and students, beware external motivations such as money.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Now that's really interesting and goes directly against business schools.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: So here we are, uh let's sort of catch up to where we were before.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, basically the three human drive drives, and he calls them motivation 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: And if you know you guys and and myself growing up and even now, usually motivation 2.0 is what we are used to.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: Hey, if you do this, this, and this, then you'll get more money.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: If you do this, this and this, you'll get a promotion.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: If you do this, you'll get this bonus or this car, this prize, or or whatever it is.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: And kind of the crux of what he's saying is that in some instances, the motivation 2.0, the the money or the prize, or the you know, kind of if you do this, then you'll get this type of thinking.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: There's it it has its place and it works in it works in certain situations, but it's usually only a short-term fix.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: It's usually only impactful, it's usually only effective in the short term.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: But then this third, this this intrinsic reward, this intrinsic motivation 3.0, that's where you get the the long-term benefits, that's where people feel engaged to their work, that's where people are going to do their best work because they genuinely love it.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: They have something inside, they have some type of drive as to why they are really invested in whatever they're doing.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: So whether that's a relationship, whether that's your time at work, whether it's your volunteer opportunity, all of those things are long-term, most impactful, most effective when it comes from that motivation 3.0.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: And what he likes to say in the book is the second reward, extrinsic rewards and punishments, carrot and stick, is so 20th century, he says.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: But we're in the 21st century and times have changed.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: He begins his third chapter by saying, Imagine it's 1996.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: You sit down with an economist professor and you say to him, I'd like to test your forecasting powers.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to describe two new encyclopedias.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: One of them, Microsoft, is putting millions of dollars behind this encyclopedia, and they're going to hire loads of professionals who will write articles that that have the latest information on all of these thousands of topics.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: And it will be an online encyclopedia.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll charge for it, but it'll be a great deal.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: We'll call it NCARTA.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: But he says, and then you say the economist, now there's going to be another encyclopedia which is completely voluntary.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Amateurs will simply write articles on their own if they choose to, and they will put them uh on the internet.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh which of these do you think in 2010, 15 years from now, will be more successful?
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's not an economist in the world that would have predicted that an amateur encyclopedia would be more successful.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: But Microsoft and Carta went out of uh, you know, they they uh went out of business in 2008, nobody cared.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Whereas Wikipedia, as you know, uh now has five over five million articles in English, over 40 million articles in 293 languages all over the world.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: No one getting paid for anything.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Motivation 2.0 says, what?
13:50
SPEAKER_00: An all volunteer, all amateur encyclopedia defeats an encyclopedia by prayed prose.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: That defies the laws of behavioral physics, right?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So we go back.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Did you want to say something about that?
14:06
SPEAKER_02: No, that's good.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: So we go back to um our motivation paradigm that maybe way back in caveman times, the main motivation was survival, and maybe up till just recently the main motivation has been whip and carrot.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: But there seems to be this motivation which in modern days is taking over an inner motivation, the one that Derek so well described, which he calls intrinsic rather than extrinsic.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: So if extrinsic is carrot and stick, money, getting on the leaderboard, points, gold star, titles, prizes, punishment.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Intrinsic is autonomy, being able to do something yourself, having a purpose, a passion, something that uh you love, something that's fun.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And uh so uh ratcheting down to the first half of the book where we're gonna end today, he says, you know, it's not just Wikipedia.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Take Firefox.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Firefox is open source.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Firefox, nobody got paid for.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Linux, which is one of business's main uh you know softwares, that's also open source or free.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And some of you can uh I just decided to put on here some of the things I've downloaded and used from YouTube in the last few months.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't anybody else, when you're doing car repair or even how to cook steaks or whatever else, don't you go on YouTube and find out my wife followed how to hang drywall six weeks ago to learn how to hang?
15:43
SPEAKER_00: My wife hung drywall of all things in a bathroom.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: She wanted to learn how to do it, following the YouTube video.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's open source, in other words, nobody getting paid.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Isn't this amazing?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and then he gives a second out of three illustrations.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Today, for the first time, we have companies that combine profit and purpose.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Our normal thought about businesses, that's on the left-hand side, is their purpose is to generate income.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Their success is measured by financial stability and profitability.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Their purpose is to generate profit.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: That's motivation 2.0.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: They are profit maximizers.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, we have churches and charities, far right blue, who rely on donations to their sponsors.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Their success is measured by social or environmental impact, or we would say spiritual impact.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Their purpose is to benefit society.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: That's motivation 3.0.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, we have all of these businesses cropping up.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: They are social enterprise businesses.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: They, that's the green area in the middle.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: They can generate profit, but may also rely on donations or sponsors.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Success is difficult to measure.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: They have to be financially sustainable, but they focus on creating a positive impact.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: I have a and you know, one of my morning Bible studies, there's a businessman who's there who doesn't go to our church.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: He's a millionaire, multimillionaire.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: And he is uh in league with about five or six other uh very wealthy people across the country, and they uh decided they wanted to start a business in a poor part of Spain.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh and they would not set a goal to earn 8% profit, which is typical, let's say, for a business, but 1% profit, uh, but it would it would change a community.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And so he shares with us every month about this business, and they keep pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into a coconut oil producing business in a very remote part of Spain.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And out of this, they haven't even seen their 1% yet.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: But their goal is that they may make a little bit of money, but they will change the community at the same time.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: Unheard of 20 years ago.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
18:00
SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of names for this business.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: The third illustration, Derek, is when we think about what motivates us, you are you do not fit into motivation 2.0 completely.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: You do things that are financially irrational.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: In other words, that don't make you money.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: You spend money, for instance, in the middle of your life to learn how to play clarinet.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Or, or you will actually take two weeks off work and spend money to go on a mission trip to help other people.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that doesn't make any sense, right?
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Brian's smiling.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: He's leaving tomorrow for for Haiti to go build a what are you gonna build for the kids down there?
18:40
SPEAKER_00: A big playground.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make sense with this motivation.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: You and I do things irrationally uh uh to improve ourselves or help others.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: So and and they put a uh Dan Pink was writing this on his in his TED talk, I think.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Don't need money, it don't take fame, it don't need no credit card to ride this train, and that's the train of motivation 3.0.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's summarize these things, okay?
19:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: These the carrot in the stick, the the motivation 2.0.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: I thought one of the most interesting things of before we go into why they they no longer work.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean that's actually probably part of it.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: But with motivation 2.0, it's really good and it and it's helpful and it works up to a certain level.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: Up to the level that especially when it has to do with work, up to the level that you're paid sufficiently for what you think your family needs, it works up to you know the status level that you think that you wanted to achieve.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: It works to help move people to that point.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: But then anything beyond that, they carry it in the sticks, the money, the promotion, it's like well, I could do without it.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm fine, we're at we're at the level we're at.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: And so when we see why they no longer work, there's fewer, fewer mechanical, repetitive, routine jobs today.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: And this is what you were saying about the 19th century, and how when you had a lot of people, the industrial revolution, people working in factories, lots of people doing the same job, and it was kind of the picture of, in a sense, this machinery, and people were even viewed as you know, cogs, as part of a machine, as part of that kind of early 19th century ideology.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, for right or for wrong, that's what it was viewed as.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And so if you gave somebody ten more dollars to do this certain task, they'd be really excited about that and they would do it because everyone is pretty much doing the same thing.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: But now we live in a world where everyone has opportunities to do almost whatever they want as far as a job and even earn money for it.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: And people do all kinds of things today where money isn't earned for it.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: If you guys look online, you know that there's like 10,000 million blogs that are online.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: Most people are not getting paid to do all that kinds of work, but they post all these articles on there.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: You've got all these YouTube videos that you know how to fix a toilet, hang drywall, how to change your flat tire.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: People spend time to make these really good videos and put them online and they're not getting paid for it.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: They may one day, if they get famous, but that's not the primary reason why they initially do it.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: One thing you said, I think early that's so important, Derek, is um you do need money is important to a certain extent.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, people will quit jobs because they don't make enough.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, so if you're being paid either less than you think you deserve, or less than other people at your job, or uh not enough to keep you going, you will quit the job.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: But if you're making a certain amount of money, all the studies show, then an additional 10% or whatever does not motivate.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: You you're fine with the amount of money.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: It'd be nice to make more money, but you're probably not motivated by that.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: But you can be demotivated by not getting a raise or or not and or not getting the same raise that other people get.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And I I think I think that is an important addition you just made.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's take a look really quickly why the carrot and stick approaches no longer work in the 21st century.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Number one, because um that's that approach was fine for mechanical, repetitive routine jobs, but there are more complex creativity requirings.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Our jobs are different today.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Secondly, management's different today.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: We're changing to more hands-on, less uh you know, less boss-directed jobs.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And so we have more power, more autonomy.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Third, we have internet-driven open sourcing.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Fourth, we mentioned uh this change in corporate focus to social causes and social benefits.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And fifth, we turn out not to be motivated solely or even mainly by external incentives.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then he he concludes with seven deadly, concludes the first half of the book, seven deadly flaws, actually.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And and this is important because if you motivate your children, employees or students, with a carrot and stick approach, then you may find out uh some of the negatives to this.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: You want to, you know, uh some of the problems with a carrot and stick approach.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: You want to share any of these?
23:32
SPEAKER_02: So they they extinguish intrinsic motivation.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: So if you're constantly motivation 2.0, constantly carrot and stick, if then if you do this, then this will happen.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: Kind of like the the monkey uh trial with the lock at the beginning.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: You start to do that so long, and then all of a sudden, if that reward is not there, or if they don't care about the reward, it's done.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna happen.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: So if you pay your children for taking out the trash the study fines, and then you try to not pay them, they will refuse to carry out the trash.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Now, now there's really interesting uh studies about how if you don't pay them but then occasionally reward them for it at the end, it actually doesn't harm it nearly so much.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Very interesting.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: That's a big difference.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: The second one, they can actually diminish performance because then the performance, the the work comes out of oh, here's this thing, here's this prize that I'm going to get at the end.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's really dependent on upon me of whether I actually care about that reward or care about that prize as to how much work is going to get done.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: And the studies show that it works in the short term for a little while, but then eventually the reward, the internal drive goes away, and so the performance goes down, just like we saw with the monkeys.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, we're not monkeys, we're people.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: But the same thing tends to be true for us.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
25:01
SPEAKER_00: That study uh they took uh they went over to do this, they required people who made very little money.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: They couldn't do this in America.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: They they took Filipinos and they had three groups, and they had one group where they paid them nothing for doing a job.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: They paid the next group something like a couple of days' wages, not huge, but something.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And they found those two groups worked about the same speed.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: And they gave the they offered the third group a year's salary for doing this this simple job.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: And the third group was so flop flummoxed, was so freaked out, was so intense that they couldn't do the job nearly as well as the others.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's an illustration.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh crushes creativity.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: This is an interesting one, and I think something that you probably have seen more and more in the business world, and uh it's not a result of this book because this book's fairly new, but when people have the ability to be creative, to implement some things on their own, to have some autonomy in what they're doing, they tend to be more creative and actually come up with better ideas rather than the boss down, hey, this is what you're going to do.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: If you do this for me the way that I want it done, then you're gonna get this amount of money or this raise or this whatever.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And so when we constantly stay with this motivation 2.0, it can crush that creativity because people don't feel that they have an ability to be creative because they're being told what to do for a reward that they may or may not even care about.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So uh and then the next one was to crowd out good behavior.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh and that ties in with number six, which is encouraging cheating and shortcuts and unethical behavior.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: All the studies uh uh done of let's any of you take your car uh car into a car repair shop.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: So when that when you get your oil changed and your tires rotated, they're always coming out and trying to get you to purchase some major repairs.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, they do this study and they find out that most of these, most national companies motivate their individual branches by how much other work they can get them to do, which encourages this carrot stick approach, which encourages them to try to find and sometimes make up uh invisible you know things that need to happen to your car.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: And that's and so that encouraged it, it crowds out good behavior, you know, like doing all I did that free for your car.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I just saw it, I decided I would do that.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh for instance, um I'll just mention the company that I used to go to on Wanamaker to always fix my car.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: I won't mention when it was.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: I decided to go to them about 10 years ago because I went in and I heard the manager say to this woman, when you uh uh when you when we were changing oil and so forth, we saw this thing and we decided to fix it.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: No charge.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I'm coming to this place.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: And I went to it for 10 years, but last year, year before, they changed bosses.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh they lost that manager.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: They brought in a new one, and this one, I can hear him when I sit there changing my oil, and he does it with me with this long list.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, we you know, you've got a really bad problem right now.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: You need to change the struts and do this, and it's gonna it'll cost about$950, but we can get it done, and you better do this now.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: And you constantly hear people, you know, freaking out, oh, I guess I better do it.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: And and Melody and I just got tired of it and left.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: But when I was reading this study about how this is a common problem across the country because of the carrot-stick approach, I thought, eh, I'm gonna move away.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh just summary.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: There are intrinsic motivations, extrinsic motivations, grades, punishment, praise, and money.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh for simple, straightforward little tasks, carrot and stick may work to a certain extent.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, where do we find this in the Bible?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, some verses you came up with, I appreciate this.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, these are great.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Romans 12, 11, never be lazy, but work hard and serve the Lord enthusiastically.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And so we do that from an internal motivation.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: It's I think you guys would agree that it's a lot tougher to sustain something spiritually and serving the Lord when you feel like somebody's just making you do it, or you feel like it's an obligation or a have to instead of a get to if you want to.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: That word enthusiastically.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Or for instance, in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says, I'm the worst of the apostles.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: I persecuted the church, by the grace of God I was saved, and his grace to me has resulted in me working harder than anyone else.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: So, why did Paul work harder than all the other apostles?
29:46
SPEAKER_00: He was intrinsically motivated by being being blown away by the grace of God.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the last one, 1 Corinthians 15, 58, or second to last one.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Therefore, my dear brother, stand firm, let nothing move you.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Sort of the same as the other one.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: God's not happy with just you doing the work, he's looking for enthusiastic, full, full orbed work.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I love the fact that you came up with this one, Derek.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: This is giving to the Lord, not reluctantly or under compulsion.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: That's motivation 2.0.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: For God loves a cheerful giver.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that interesting?
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it kind of moves into that 3.0.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing that God's looking for.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: It's not just about the task, it's not just about the money, but it's about the motivation, it's about the heart, the desire that's inside of you intrinsically.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: That's really the part that God cares about is that heart part when it comes to our giving towards Him.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, we want uh you're gonna have some great discussions on this this week and next week.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: So next week we're gonna take it because what we haven't covered yet in the last half of the book, there's two major things.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Number one, sort of exploring this motivation 3.0.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: How do we uh uh introducing us to autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: How to motivate yourself, how to motivate others.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing will be uh the best work situations and something called flow, how you can get into flow at work.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, for group discussion starters, and by the way, between now and next week, I want you to notice how other people motivate people, how parents motivate children, how you motivate your own children, how other people motivate you, how you motivate yourself, and bring back some of those interesting stories.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And today, let's start that discussion by starting with uh how people motivated you when you were young.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Can you recall some of the motivations used on you when you were young by your parents, by your teachers?
31:54
SPEAKER_00: We have a couple of father-son teams here.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: You guys may need to split up on this one.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean uh did your parents more often use the carrot or the stick?
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Number two.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh when you were in high school, what did you love to do that required neither carrot nor stick?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Four.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: What are you intrinsically motivated to do these days?
32:14
SPEAKER_00: In general, are you more of what uh Dan Pink calls an ex-person where you where you are motivated primarily by external motivations, money, sex, food, whatever, or an I person where you are not so much motivated by rewards or or fame or money, whatever, but you are an intrinsically motivated person.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Would you like to be more of an I person?
32:40
SPEAKER_00: And fifth, with your children, students, employees, do you tend to overuse the carrot stick approach?
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Volunteer, yes, I used to.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: How can we stimulate natural?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: This is a tough question here, Derek.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: You and I have talked about this.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: How can we stimulate natural internal motivation in those we love?
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I think that's a great question.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: You guys will have, we'll all have great discussion about that and maybe even talk about some of that next week too when we get into it.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Lead us in prayer, will you?
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Heavenly Father, thanks for your goodness to us.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for Jesus and him dying on the cross for us uh for our salvation so that we could live with you forever.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: We pray during this week that you would help us to see these principles of motivation and how uh two point zero and three point oh play out in our lives.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Help us to be intrinsically motivated to serve you and to love you in Jesus' name.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: Amen.