Latest / Gospel Talks Podcast / #53 - From Addiction to Redemption with Tony Mendez

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#53 - From Addiction to Redemption with Tony Mendez · Gospel Talks Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.
• 0:07
  My name is George Binoka and I'm your host today.
• 0:09
  And with me is Tony Mendez and Tony's a dear friend of mine, a brother in Christ.
• 0:15
  And I've had the privilege of baptizing Tony.
• 0:18
  And so I just asked him onto the podcast today because we want to encourage you guys as our listeners, we know that you're the laborers going out into the harvest.
• 0:25
  and trying to reach people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
• 0:29
  And I think Tony's story is gonna be really encouraging to you guys today.
• 0:32
  It's a fascinating one and I think he has a lot to share that's gonna be helpful to Christians all over the world on this topic.
• 0:40
  So Tony brother, I've known you now for a year and we've eaten a lot of food together.
• 0:46
  Definitely.
• 0:47
  It's one of the common themes of our life and something you and I share a love for.
• 0:53
  and you have an incredible story.
• 0:55
  I don't know where you want to start in your journey.
• 0:58
  but wherever you want to start us off, brother, go ahead.
• 1:00
  Yeah, growing up,
• 1:01
  Bye y'all.
• 1:02
  My grandmother, which was really the only grandparent I was, how would you say, around that, was a faithful Christian.
• 1:09
  My parents, every now and again, they talked about God, but it was always real short and brief.
• 1:13
  So the time spent with my nana, she would tell us about Bible scripture, and a lot of it was pointing out things about the family around us, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't
• 1:22
  do this.
• 1:23
  I understood what she was saying, but it seemed like she was about the only person around me that was really living it out.
• 1:30
  So it was hard for me to put importance on, I guess, on what she was saying because it seemed everybody was doing what they wanted and living life their
• 1:41
  on their own terms and trying to see God through the whole mess that everybody around me was creating for me was really hard.
• 1:48
  Was your grandmother a Christian or like went to church?
• 1:51
  Yeah, she.
• 1:52
  She always watched sermons on TV and few times.
• 1:56
  Did she ever take us to church because the whole life was really busy.
• 2:00
  She's one of those grandmothers that took care of her children, took care of her children's children.
• 2:04
  and then her children, all the way to her great grandchildren to this day.
• 2:07
  So when you say people did whatever they wanted, are you kind of, I mean, did people in your family generally acknowledge Jesus Christ or was it kind of like, oh, that's our
• 2:17
  grandmother's faith, it's not really our faith or we acknowledge it but we don't really live like it?
• 2:22
  So the family that I was mostly surrounded by was my father and just for a few years his brothers and then just some cousins.
• 2:30
  my dad, he would always say, he would tell us God is your true father.
• 2:34
  you are my children and God's gonna hold me accountable for how good of a job I do as a father.
• 2:39
  But that's about where he kept it.
• 2:41
  Because he was always at work a lot.
• 2:42
  it was at work and home life that he created was very unstable.
• 2:46
  my sister followed my Nana's footsteps.
• 2:48
  So but my other uncles that were around for a little while, they were just really involved in drug activity and gang life.
• 2:55
  home was, violent.
• 2:57
  At times, there was a lot of hostility That's, an aspect of life my dad tried to shelter us from.
• 3:02
  And his relationship with my mom when they were married was not good at all.
• 3:06
  God was not in their relationship.
• 3:08
  They didn't put God at the center of their relationship.
• 3:10
  So that's why at a young age, my parents divorced.
• 3:12
  Is your mom a Christian?
• 3:13
  Yeah.
• 3:14
  my mom, would sing Jesus loves you this I know to us when we were little.
• 3:19
  And that's one like really good memory I have of her when I was little.
• 3:22
  But my parents got divorced when I was five or six, I think.
• 3:25
  So I didn't see my mom for a long time because once they got divorced, my dad kicked her out of the house and I didn't see her for
• 3:30
  eight or nine years after that.
• 3:31
  my mom struggled with drinking a lot too.
• 3:34
  when I was able to move back in with my mom around age 13, it was just, it was all bad.
• 3:39
  So who were you living with up to age 13?
• 3:41
  my dad, he moved us in with my grandmother, his mother, my Nana.
• 3:46
  And so she was like the mother of the house.
• 3:49
  us for a while there.
• 3:50
  And then my dad got remarried shortly afterwards.
• 3:53
  And then there was a domestic fight at the house.
• 3:55
  my dad and my nana split the household.
• 3:57
  So my sister stayed with my nana because my dad didn't feel that he could properly raise a woman because my dad was a rough guy.
• 4:05
  that's why my sister turned out to be the most responsible and probably one of the better examples of a good Christian that I had in my life throughout all this because she was one
• 4:14
  person who always reminded me you know Jesus loved you and every time the four times I went to rehab three of those times she's the one who sent me a Bible made sure I took a
• 4:23
  Bible with me and then she would explain to me the best she could about my situation the way God saw it and those words that she shared with me
• 4:31
  in those moments really wasn't stuff I wanted to hear, but it was the words I held onto dearly because everything she said, what God said about me or God's love, like those
• 4:40
  things stuck with me.
• 4:41
  I never forgot him even though I didn't want to hear him.
• 4:43
  So in God's providence, you got sent down this path of I'm now going to be more influenced by my dad and his brothers than I am my Nana for a while.
• 4:52
  And how, what kind of spiritual effect did that have on you?
• 4:55
  What?
• 4:55
  How did that change your life being influenced by those guys?
• 4:59
  I.
• 4:59
  I developed an ego that stood in the way of everything.
• 5:02
  it was looking at my dad, my uncles, was the whole, can't tell me nothing about what I'm doing.
• 5:07
  As long as I take care of my stuff, you shouldn't have a problem with what I'm doing.
• 5:10
  And if you do, there's going to be a problem between us type attitude.
• 5:13
  just let me do what I want.
• 5:14
  you can't tell me nothing that's kind of stuck with me for a long time because I admired that about my dad because he was a real scary person.
• 5:21
  And me growing up, as you could see, I was little bit of a wimp and I was afraid of a lot of things, but my dad was somebody who always had my back.
• 5:30
  And I saw that everybody was afraid of him.
• 5:32
  Are you comfortable telling the audience what your dad did for a living?
• 5:35
  Oh, he was when he was younger, he enlisted in the Navy and he's real modest about it.
• 5:43
  He'll say, I was an engine man.
• 5:45
  But he, um, yeah, for
• 5:47
  six or seven years there he was a SEAL Team Six
• 5:50
  I was watching him and what he has suffered through as far as his condition when he came back like I'm real appreciative of what the veterans go through and just what it looks
• 6:00
  like for someone to I guess sacrifice the innocent part of them I wouldn't say innocent but
• 6:07
  it does something to the nice part of them.
• 6:09
  It definitely affects the conscience.
• 6:11
  And
• 6:11
  watching him tell me that God was what I needed, but watching him suffer with what he suffered with and thinking like, wow, I could not fathom what it is my dad goes through.
• 6:20
  But yet he tells me Jesus Christ is who I need to lean on.
• 6:23
  because
• 6:24
  He told us that every now and again and really did he didn't never went to church really.
• 6:27
  so was kind of hard to trust that.
• 6:29
  but again, that stuck with me this is what my dad says helps a man like him and saves a man like him.
• 6:37
  And that's what I need to do.
• 6:38
  And that's the one thing I couldn't do.
• 6:40
  And just watching him struggle with, everything he hadn't given to God at the time, it was.
• 6:46
  I guess real humbling to watch my childhood superhero turn human in front of me.
• 6:53
  But yet he still relied on God.
• 6:54
  And I remember there was a moment where my dad wanted me to get down on my knees and pray with him.
• 6:59
  I couldn't do it.
• 7:00
  I remember, this was 10 years ago maybe.
• 7:03
  And he...
• 7:05
  He kept asking me please son get down I want you to do this with me and that I can't I can't and it was because I was already hooked on drugs heavily and I was just full of so
• 7:14
  much self hatred I had no peace no inner peace at all no love for myself and I hated the world around me but I was trying to be there for my family when I couldn't even be there
• 7:23
  for myself
• 7:24
  So going back to 13, I mean, how did you go from 13 to finding yourself in drugs?
• 7:29
  I how long did that take?
• 7:31
  all it took was me moving in with my mom.
• 7:33
  My dad came to a point where my dad had his last wife
• 7:36
  had
• 7:37
  me and my two brothers, and then his daughter that he had with his new wife and then her daughter.
• 7:41
  And my dad told us, I can't afford to take care of you guys So I'll give you the option to move in with your mother and go see what that woman is like.
• 7:49
  And that's something that he would say about my mom that I didn't like.
• 7:52
  He's always like, I keep you from your mom because at some point you're going to see what type of woman she is.
• 7:58
  really, she was just, she hated my dad for the way the relationship was.
• 8:02
  Because when he came back from the Navy, she got all of his PTSD fresh.
• 8:06
  And One reason he married her was because he got her pregnant.
• 8:08
  He didn't marry her because he loved her or planned to have A family with her.
• 8:11
  Yeah.
• 8:12
  in his words, it was the old fashioned thing to do.
• 8:14
  I thought it was the right thing to do.
• 8:16
  So I just married her and tried to make it work.
• 8:18
  so me and my twin brother, we chose to move in with my mom because for all those years that I hadn't seen my mom,
• 8:24
  I want to see my mom.
• 8:24
  want to see my mom.
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  I love my mom.
• 8:26
  I miss my mom.
• 8:26
  I haven't seen her in such a long time.
• 8:27
  That's one thing I remember.
• 8:29
  Like one of my longest hurtful memories that I have as a kid is missing my mom and not being able to see her, not being able to talk to her and him cutting things short because,
• 8:38
  your mom's talking bad about me.
• 8:40
  You shouldn't have to hear this.
• 8:41
  And it was always cut short.
• 8:43
  So when we moved in with my mom, all of a sudden there's not many rules in the house.
• 8:47
  I don't have to show up to school as much as I have to.
• 8:50
  If I wanted to stay home, my mom would let me stay home.
• 8:52
  And so staying home, like what am I gonna do?
• 8:54
  We go play outside and get introduced to weed.
• 8:57
  my mom and my dad were real heavy drinkers.
• 8:59
  Really heavy drinkers.
• 9:00
  My mom's 11 years sober now, but at this time she was really drowning herself.
• 9:04
  Just like my uncles were on drugs, my mom's sisters drink.
• 9:08
  something related to alcohol, but she drank a lot.
• 9:10
  She drank herself to death.
• 9:11
  So everybody in my family had these addictions, so me and my twin brother, go out, we start smoking weed and drinking heavily, and then it's all just flying under my mom's
• 9:20
  radar.
• 9:20
  when she looked at us, she saw my dad and her dislike for my dad was verbalized towards us.
• 9:26
  So like at home became really emotionally abusive.
• 9:31
  And when my brother left me, it was physically abusive with my mother.
• 9:35
  I would tell my mom all the time like I don't like you but I love you because she was she was so mean to me and Not because she hated me.
• 9:41
  She was trusting the alcohol more than she trusted God in those moments.
• 9:44
  And for me, that just kind of became the darkest, period of my life where my own mother was being really mean to me.
• 9:50
  I couldn't come home and have the love of my mother there.
• 9:54
  It was just come home and I can get messed up and take off and go as I please.
• 9:59
  But every time I saw her, it was an argument.
• 10:01
  I would ask God, why did you have to make my life this hard?
• 10:06
  Because this is turning me into something and making me feel in ways I cannot handle.
• 10:12
  Rather than seeing moments like look at what God is showing me or like look at what God has done for me.
• 10:16
  It's I'm not gonna use that as an excuse you made my life hard You made me feel my life was bad, so that gave me a good reason to act bad.
• 10:23
  That's how you felt towards God.
• 10:24
  Yeah, You felt like you had a license to go do whatever you wanted to do.
• 10:29
  Yeah, and then.
• 10:30
  And with my parents, looking at them, they would tell me oh, you need to be careful, Tony.
• 10:35
  You shouldn't be doing this.
• 10:36
  Or Tony, you know, your attitude is very wrong.
• 10:38
  well, you should have thought about that a long time ago.
• 10:40
  you can obviously see how much I'm hurting on the inside.
• 10:43
  And I was always just like, this is your fault.
• 10:45
  So I hope this hurts for you to see me this way, because this is how my whole life has felt up to this point.
• 10:51
  So you were bitter.
• 10:52
  Very angry very and Did you ever get an answer to your question about?
• 10:57
  to this day I mean, what would you say is why because a lot of people ask the question why who have a hard life?
• 11:03
  Why would why would a good God allow this?
• 11:05
  How would you answer that question?
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  To somebody who's an unbeliever who says my life is hard.
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  I'm on the streets.
• 11:11
  I'm addicted Why would God allow this to happen to me?
• 11:14
  You know, that's one thing that it took me a while to really
• 11:19
  come up with my take on it.
• 11:21
  I take it as my parents probably could have done a better job as being parents, but.
• 11:26
  I think you're being nice.
• 11:27
  Yeah.
• 11:28
  They could have definitely done.
• 11:31
  But I just took it as maybe they tried their best.
• 11:34
  but they did a terrible job.
• 11:36
  But at the end of the day, they still love me.
• 11:37
  I try not to point the finger and blame them, but I want to blame myself.
• 11:44
  But how can I look at this without blaming God, without blaming them, and without blaming myself?
• 11:48
  This is just an accumulated, I guess the end result of everything being mishandled on everybody's side.
• 11:55
  in a way, but like there are some good parts to it, guess.
• 11:58
  But you'd agree that, I mean, God didn't mishandle anything.
• 12:01
  He's good.
• 12:01
  He's perfect.
• 12:02
  Yes.
• 12:03
  but sin's the problem.
• 12:05
  Sin, yes.
• 12:06
  life being that way, weeded out some of the bad things in my character that could have stayed.
• 12:10
  it allowed me to see in my parents what I don't want to be like and what's wrong.
• 12:15
  but I also see where they got it from.
• 12:17
  And then I look at myself and I see what I have in common with that.
• 12:20
  And then I see where I get it from.
• 12:22
  And how can I stop this?
• 12:23
  What do you think God was trying to show you through all of that?
• 12:26
  Looking at how they've mishandled life, looking at just the sin and the suffering and even, you you having started to use drugs and all that.
• 12:35
  mean, what do you think God was trying to do now?
• 12:37
  Looking back from where you are here, that shows me where my parents should have put God in their life and trusted God
• 12:44
  where they didn't do that, that's where I need to do that.
• 12:47
  So I don't pass it on to anybody else.
• 12:49
  It's amazing to me, you know, every time I listen to your life, Tony, I never sit here and think I was a better person in my teenage years.
• 12:57
  Not at all.
• 12:58
  I was I was just as sinful of a person, but my life was not as hard as yours.
• 13:02
  but it's sometimes in those really difficult moments that God shows us we need a savior.
• 13:07
  We can't fix it ourselves.
• 13:09
  Did you try to fix it?
• 13:11
  Tell us about, mean, how did your relationship with drugs and all that, how did it not only affect your relationship with God and what it did to you spiritually, but I mean, how
• 13:21
  far down the road of drugs did it end up taking you?
• 13:24
  In the end, mean, a year and a half ago, I had spent three days sleeping on the side of the freeway because the cops came and raided the house where I was staying.
• 13:32
  So I didn't have a stable home.
• 13:33
  was kind of just living in what they call a trap house where drugs are sold, because that's where everybody's welcome.
• 13:39
  And just sitting there looking around at all these people who I did not like going, wow, what do I have in common with these people that puts us in the same house?
• 13:47
  And thinking how do I fit in here?
• 13:49
  And then, yeah, so the police come raid the house, house gets condemned.
• 13:53
  And there I am with nowhere to go.
• 13:54
  I can either stay on drugs, which was crystal meth and fentanyl at the time.
• 13:58
  or I can go to my sister's house and get help.
• 14:01
  And I already went to rehab three times.
• 14:04
  And this was going to be the fourth time.
• 14:05
  The first time I went to rehab, was I'm never coming back here.
• 14:07
  For me, it was kind of like being in jail.
• 14:09
  I had went to jail for drugs.
• 14:12
  All my charges are drug and weapon charges.
• 14:14
  I was looking at 10 years in prison for getting caught with drugs and then getting put on probation, getting caught with a gun and drugs, and then going back to jail and violating
• 14:23
  probation with a gun and drugs.
• 14:25
  it's like, dude,
• 14:26
  how much am I willing to let drugs and this behavior take from me?
• 14:30
  And at that time, I didn't care at all.
• 14:33
  Please take it all.
• 14:34
  in my addiction, if I were to die, at least I wouldn't have to hurt no more.
• 14:38
  That's the thought that would go through my head.
• 14:39
  Just take this from me.
• 14:40
  Please don't make me suffer too much.
• 14:42
  Is that something you would say to God in that time?
• 14:44
  Is just take me off this earth?
• 14:46
  Yeah.
• 14:47
  I could only hope to smoke this pill, fall asleep and not wake up.
• 14:52
  that because that happened one time had to be Narcan.
• 14:56
  And it was my accident.
• 14:57
  Like because I was I was dope sick.
• 15:00
  And then I went and smoked some really strong drugs and just boom immediately.
• 15:05
  It was like I blinked my eyes and I was waking up again.
• 15:07
  But it was like six hours later and I was in my bed.
• 15:10
  somebody was sitting next to me like, are okay?
• 15:12
  And I was throwing up like, ugh, And my whole thought was, I didn't even know what happened.
• 15:17
  So I woke up not even knowing why I'm surrounded by people and I'm sick to my stomach and dude, you almost died, you turned blue.
• 15:23
  And I'm like, oh, you should have just left me alone.
• 15:27
  By the way, for our audience, if you don't know what Narcan is, it's a life-saving drug that can be given to somebody who's overdosed.
• 15:34
  what's it mean to be dope sick?
• 15:36
  Dope sick is when you're withdrawing off of drugs.
• 15:39
  So you have a chemical dependency to like heroin or fentanyl or something.
• 15:43
  But at that time, you ran out of drugs and you don't have any.
• 15:46
  So you're starting to, it's like having the flu really bad.
• 15:49
  And you're just, so weak.
• 15:50
  you're desperate for the drug.
• 15:52
  Like so desperate.
• 15:54
  I remember it.
• 15:54
  And those times, like that desperation, it's just like all you can think about is just, all that matters is getting more of the drug.
• 16:00
  And honestly, recovering, that's the scariest part is letting the drugs go and having to go through that period of withdrawal, of dope sickness.
• 16:08
  Because you have to, when you go to rehab, it took me like two weeks to get good, to be better.
• 16:14
  And I did it without medical assisted therapy, which is like the...
• 16:17
  the drugs they give you for all the symptoms and stuff.
• 16:19
  They use methadone wafers, right?
• 16:22
  They can, they can use that, suboxone, Vivitrol, but they give you medicines for like restless leg syndrome, because your legs are never comfortable, or nausea, and even pain
• 16:33
  relievers and stuff to help you sleep.
• 16:34
  So how long did this last?
• 16:37
  I mean, you said it's a year and a half ago.
• 16:40
  that you're on the side of the highway.
• 16:41
  I mean, how do we go from that to the Tony we're sitting in front of today?
• 16:46
  mean, how long did that drug period last and then what changed?
• 16:50
  The weed and alcohol was probably from age 13 to 18.
• 16:55
  18 was when I started doing cocaine.
• 16:57
  then 20, age 20 to 30, I started doing meth.
• 17:01
  Age 26 to 30 is when I started doing fentanyl.
• 17:05
  And I had got addicted to that because I had an injury in my foot that hurt so bad.
• 17:09
  And I was already staying at a trap house, but I was totally against it.
• 17:13
  Being on drugs, you can make a list of things you would never do.
• 17:16
  And then once you get on drugs, start checking those things off because you're going to start doing them and becoming somebody you don't recognize.
• 17:21
  all the, I guess, negative ways you could look at yourself were becoming what you said you would never become.
• 17:26
  And so it was like 10 years of hard drugs, pretty much.
• 17:29
  And so from the freeway, I made it to my sister's house, which was the longest walk I ever took in the sun, pulling my clothes with me.
• 17:37
  And I just remember thinking, I remember I felt done, absolutely done.
• 17:42
  And every couple hours I had to stop and lay down on the floor.
• 17:45
  would find a shady spot in the grass and I would look up at the sky man, I don't know if I can make it to my sister's house.
• 17:50
  It is so hot out here.
• 17:52
  I'm so, was 255 pounds and for me, my size, that's really skinny.
• 17:57
  I fit into an extra large size XL shirt.
• 18:00
  How tall are you?
• 18:01
  I'm 6'4".
• 18:02
  Okay.
• 18:02
  325 pounds right now.
• 18:04
  Right then I was 255 and super sunburned, super brown.
• 18:09
  In Phoenix in summer, 120 degrees outside.
• 18:13
  And then, and you're walking by all these people and everyone's just ew, get away from me.
• 18:17
  or you get kicked off the bus.
• 18:19
  Which I mean don't blame them for kicking you off the bus and everything.
• 18:21
  Had you been treated like that a lot by people in Phoenix?
• 18:24
  mean people in Phoenix tend to homeless or addicted population very roughly.
• 18:29
  Is that kind of, was your experience?
• 18:31
  At that time, yeah.
• 18:32
  And usually when people be you're on drugs.
• 18:35
  when I wasn't, I guess, it would make me very mad.
• 18:38
  and I would get hostile with people.
• 18:41
  it wouldn't be don't judge me.
• 18:42
  It's just you got a problem with what I'm doing?
• 18:44
  Don't look at me then.
• 18:45
  And that's kind of, was kind of my attitude towards God before that was just you know, please, if you could turn a blind eye to me, because I'm not gonna like what I feel I'm
• 18:54
  turning into.
• 18:55
  And I know you're not gonna probably be too proud of what you're seeing.
• 18:58
  So now as a Christian, how would you encourage other Christians?
• 19:01
  What's the right way for us to interact?
• 19:03
  with that kind of person we see at a intersection or bus stop.
• 19:08
  there's a reason they're doing the drugs.
• 19:10
  I guess you could say something happened to them.
• 19:12
  They say the opposite of addiction is connection, having a relationship with them.
• 19:16
  I think about my brother Nick all the time when I think about this, because my brother Nick is on the streets right now.
• 19:21
  And if I were to see him today, I wouldn't pull over and be like, hey, what are you doing, idiot?
• 19:27
  Get off the drugs.
• 19:28
  Go get help.
• 19:29
  That's what you need to do.
• 19:30
  It was just I would get out and give my brother a hug telling my love him just Offer to help him and we said no, I'd sit down and talk with him for a while Is there anything else
• 19:38
  a a christian can do to encourage somebody who's struggling like that on the street?
• 19:42
  Anything tangible?
• 19:43
  mean obviously we probably don't want to give them money because that money's cash is going to be used for Their problem most likely Talking I mean if they're open to it
• 19:53
  talking to them about God is
• 19:55
  something that stuck with me in that moment and it's the best thing you can do because I mean giving them money just allows them to keep doing what they're doing but talking to
• 20:05
  them about God or giving them a bottle of water that's
• 20:08
  priceless.
• 20:08
  those people feel unloved by everything and to sit there and talk about God's love, tell them God loves them, for someone to be nice, not want nothing from them, not be there to
• 20:17
  hurt them, but to just give them that little bit or give them that much, that's, it means the world to a lot of people.
• 20:22
  And my sister when she took me to rehab,
• 20:24
  And I did the two months over there and I went to my sober living.
• 20:27
  this after you got to her house?
• 20:28
  finally got there.
• 20:29
  She took you to rehab.
• 20:30
  Finally made it there.
• 20:30
  And I laid down.
• 20:31
  I remember she looked at me.
• 20:32
  She's like, Tony, you can't stay here, but I will take you somewhere to go get some help.
• 20:36
  And that's what I asked her to do last time I was in rehab.
• 20:38
  was hey, Nicole, you made it easy for me to be an addict at your house.
• 20:41
  so the next time if I ever you ever think I'm on drugs again, don't let me stay here.
• 20:45
  Don't do don't do none of this.
• 20:46
  that made it easy for me.
• 20:47
  just offered to take me to go get me some help.
• 20:49
  because I'm not trying to live like this How many times had you been in rehab?
• 20:55
  That time was gonna be the fourth time.
• 20:57
  Now this is the time where it worked.
• 20:59
  Yeah.
• 21:00
  Why did it work?
• 21:01
  I didn't know how to be a good Christian.
• 21:03
  I knew about the Bible, I knew some of the things it said, but I really didn't know what it was that God was saying to me.
• 21:08
  And I didn't know how to take the advice from my sister or
• 21:12
  Other people that told me you know, you need to trust in God.
• 21:14
  God loves you.
• 21:15
  And it's OK, these things are starting to mean more and more to me I was unsure of how to go about it, I guess getting to a church and going to church and then being surrounded by
• 21:24
  people Who's who God word lives through
• 21:27
  faithful Christians, seeing that and just that peace they have and how they do it, that's something I hadn't been surrounded with my whole life, really, just my Nana.
• 21:36
  And just a few words spoken by my parents of seeing that it was how do I make myself a part of that?
• 21:40
  And just a lot of people on the streets that want help, they can want it, but they don't know how to do it.
• 21:45
  And what helps is having somebody who reaches their hand out and says, here, you want
• 21:49
  come with me I'll show you how to do this or I'll just expose you to it.
• 21:52
  So you're sitting in rehab and you're okay I need something to change I need I want to become a Christian but I don't even know how how do you go from that to such I mean who
• 22:02
  reached out to you?
• 22:03
  When I was at my I was talking to my sister after I left rehab the last time and I was staying at a sober living which was the next step You know go to rehab and then you get
• 22:13
  out of rehab if you don't have anywhere to go You just you're getting kicked out onto the street or to a family's house, but I took I was able to take the next step and go to a
• 22:22
  sober living where they paid for three months of my Housing as long as I went to therapy and I remember I was talking to my sister I called her because I hadn't talked to her
• 22:29
  since she took me to rehab
• 22:31
  It had been two months since I talked to her.
• 22:33
  And I wanted to tell her, you know, I'm sorry for this.
• 22:35
  And tell her how, I went to church a couple of times in rehab.
• 22:38
  They took us to church.
• 22:39
  And that is kind of where everything just really started hitting me.
• 22:43
  I was telling her, I want to get involved in church.
• 22:47
  But I had no car.
• 22:49
  I had so much to do.
• 22:50
  had to get a job.
• 22:51
  but I don't know where to start, Nicole.
• 22:53
  And then my sister's name is Nicole.
• 22:54
  And she's well, know, Saso goes to church somewhere on Yorkshire.
• 22:59
  You're like right in the middle between us.
• 23:00
  You're probably closer to him.
• 23:02
  is it OK if I send him your number and have him reach out to you?
• 23:04
  And you know, could go and start going to church with him.
• 23:06
  I was
• 23:07
  Yeah, please, I would like that.
• 23:08
  And my sister, it's new to her to see this version of me seeking God.
• 23:12
  Because she knows the bad version of me.
• 23:15
  And you said seeking God is because you want, you're longing for peace in your life.
• 23:21
  Yes.
• 23:22
  Okay.
• 23:22
  And.
• 23:22
  So you meet Saso.
• 23:24
  Yes, and he's my cousin and I've probably seen him.
• 23:27
  two or three times my whole life that I remember.
• 23:29
  And it was for a short time.
• 23:30
  So he was a cousin, but not somebody that I knew that well.
• 23:33
  By the way, we had him on the podcast.
• 23:35
  Last three episodes are, you know, three parts of when we sat down with Ben and Saso, but keep going.
• 23:41
  And, and my sister was telling me how she was, so happy that, I was seeking God and wanting to get involved in church and seeing
• 23:46
  that I was actually interested in what it was she's been trying to tell me for such a long time.
• 23:51
  And so Saso tells me, I'll be back in town in like a week.
• 23:54
  And he invites me to freedom that last.
• 23:57
  And.
• 23:57
  Which is an addictions ministry for our audience that we have here at our church.
• 24:02
  Keep going.
• 24:02
  And he invites me there.
• 24:04
  I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go.
• 24:05
  I guess so.
• 24:05
  see what this is about, because I had been to hundreds of AA meetings and I was really hoping it wouldn't be one of those, because it gets kind of stale after a while for me.
• 24:15
  AA is?
• 24:16
  Alcoholics Anonymous.
• 24:17
  Okay.
• 24:17
  And because I could just go to one of those across the street, but I was really looking for something more God-centered.
• 24:22
  I was looking for something where God is at the center of it.
• 24:25
  Yes, at the center of it.
• 24:26
  And my sister has always been somebody when I was little that I would run to, when my dad would spank me, I would run to her for help.
• 24:33
  So my sister was kind of my superhero.
• 24:35
  So whenever she told me something, I always trusted it.
• 24:38
  So when she told me to get in touch with Saso and this is what would be good for me, I really, trusted it deep down in my heart that this was the right thing to do.
• 24:45
  And so I go to Freedom That Lasts and...
• 24:48
  get to meet everybody there
• 24:49
  And I felt a little out of place because I I wouldn't say the type of people, but just I felt different than everybody there just because of, I was real closed off.
• 24:59
  I probably missed like one or two Friday nights there in this past year.
• 25:03
  And I really enjoy it there.
• 25:04
  you've been going for a year now.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  And then Saso had told me about
• 25:09
  the exchange Bible study and asked me if I if I wanted to to do that with him and I was like yeah I'm sure and he goes all right well we'll try to set a good day because we
• 25:18
  haven't had like we haven't met up that often in the past couple weeks so I'll try to set a date where it would be more than just me and you there I told him okay and but I was
• 25:27
  really really adamant about going
• 25:29
  So I told him, I was hey, if no one else shows up, can it just be me and you?
• 25:32
  And he's yeah, sure.
• 25:33
  which I was really grateful for, because I wanted to get involved in church and I was seeking God, but I really didn't know what to look into or how.
• 25:40
  But I needed someone to show me how.
• 25:43
  I lived a little further away from the church that Saso does.
• 25:46
  So he would come pick me up and he would ask me, hey, you coming?
• 25:49
  You coming?
• 25:49
  You want to come?
• 25:50
  And he always made sure I had a ride to get there, which I was really grateful for.
• 25:53
  And.
• 25:54
  And it was new to me to have somebody in my life
• 25:57
  who really wanted me to be a part of that and really made it a point to come and get me and take me and bring me back.
• 26:03
  then it seems for me it seemed like it was so out of the out of his way.
• 26:07
  But
• 26:07
  It is actually geographically is way out of his way, but he did it because he loved you.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:13
  And so that meant a lot to you that by itself, the effort meant a lot to you.
• 26:18
  Yes.
• 26:18
  And being on the street, being around the people that I was surrounded with with the drugs, love is very foreign.
• 26:25
  you're around a lot of people who say, bro, I got love for you or a man people.
• 26:29
  that either want something from you or people who are out to cheat and steal and all this other stuff, it's just that becomes something, the love becomes something you become a
• 26:38
  little bit paranoid of.
• 26:41
  being told, Tony, Jesus loves you.
• 26:43
  And for me, it's a long life of hating myself, not feeling loved by much of the world.
• 26:49
  And even just the type of love that my parents displayed.
• 26:52
  I mean, how great could God's love be if it's anything like that?
• 26:55
  And that's that's kind of what was stuck in my head.
• 26:57
  but the more when you guys took me to the exchange and just explained everything and what God's love is, what he what he wants of us and just I think that's where I first met you
• 27:06
  was in those.
• 27:07
  Yes, exchange.
• 27:08
  I was also asked me to come along and.
• 27:10
  where we met each other and so you went through the exchange.
• 27:13
  Yes and I had never been stumped by so many questions that I have in church here at FTL when the freedom of the last one they asked me how did you view God and
• 27:22
  What do you think God was doing for you in that moment?
• 27:24
  It's just I don't know.
• 27:25
  I'm not usually stumped by questions.
• 27:27
  And so it's, gave me a lot to think about as much as I had a negative view towards God and the Bible, how can I not like something I really know nothing about?
• 27:37
  Do you remember any of the questions in the exchange that stumped you?
• 27:41
  You remember which, which one stumped you?
• 27:44
  it's a while ago.
• 27:45
  Now it's a year ago.
• 27:46
  it was about.
• 27:48
  Ten Commandments and then just why this sins are bad and why God doesn't like certain sinning
• 27:53
  I guess one questions that were hard for me to answer was like.
• 27:56
  do you believe God sent his Son to die for our sins?
• 28:00
  Words like these, have never really left my mouth.
• 28:04
  So even the very concepts of Jesus being sent to die for other people's sacrifice, you're not used to thinking of death and sacrifice and those things in those ways.
• 28:14
  you're not even used to using those words.
• 28:16
  And especially, especially all the sins that I was guilty of.
• 28:18
  And then it's saying how God looks at them.
• 28:22
  and why they're punishable by death.
• 28:26
  It's like, I'm guilty of so many of those things.
• 28:28
  things that I thought made me a man were really,
• 28:31
  really sinful traits.
• 28:32
  And it's just OK, so if that's what God says about me, then he's saying that about my dad.
• 28:36
  it's just like, that make my dad a bad person?
• 28:38
  No.
• 28:38
  But those are things that he struggled with that he kind of passed on to us.
• 28:43
  It was a lot to take in.
• 28:44
  I'm sure you guys could see that when we were doing it.
• 28:46
  It was was a lot for me to take in the entire time.
• 28:48
  Yeah.
• 28:50
  So when would you say it clicked?
• 28:52
  When did you, when you look back at all that, was there a particular point at which you accepted Jesus Christ or would you just look back and like, you know what, at some point I
• 28:59
  just, yep, I believe that.
• 29:01
  I stake my life on it.
• 29:02
  right when I got out of rehab went to the sober living where I wouldn't say I was unsure about it But I was on the fence of is this the way I want to go or do I want to continue
• 29:12
  to think the same way I've always thought so I pushed in the direction of seeking God and then when
• 29:18
  and after the exchange, that's when I was set in it.
• 29:20
  And even confident in it.
• 29:22
  I wasn't ashamed of it,
• 29:23
  people that I used to hang around would probably take you as soft and that's not the way I wanted to be perceived And it's just, it's not something that makes you weak.
• 29:31
  not, it makes me stronger.
• 29:33
  A lot of my perspective on life and God and everything has been strengthened and totally the 180 in a good way.
• 29:40
  And even with the way I view myself and my family, like I've become a lot more loving to the things I had a hard time dealing with.
• 29:49
  What would you say?
• 29:50
  Having spent time in prison.
• 29:53
  Are there at jail?
• 29:54
  Sorry.
• 29:55
  Big difference, by the way.
• 29:56
  Having spent time in jail, are there opportunities for Christians to minister to people who are in jail?
• 30:02
  I mean, how could a Christian reach out to somebody in that situation?
• 30:06
  if the jail allows it, obviously.
• 30:08
  they give you material to read in there but I mean if it was a family member or like a friend or Somebody you knew that went into jail and you could stay in touch with them then
• 30:17
  I would say like writing to them and talking to them about God because they give you Bibles in jail so you could Tell him to read
• 30:24
  Like to read scripture, there would be prayer groups in there But you would have to have somebody in there who was a good Christian In your pod like in the same area the jail is
• 30:36
  you
• 30:36
  Do they allow bibles in there?
• 30:38
  Yeah By the way, I don't know if you know this but the exchange actually and we send out a newsletter a while ago But we're actually sending some bibles to a I think a prison not a
• 30:49
  jail a prison this week some of the folks in our audience donated money and we actually keep bibles on stock
• 30:54
  that if somebody in a jail or prison requests a Bible from the exchange ministry, we send it.
• 30:59
  We send it with an exchange Bible study and all that stuff.
• 31:02
  And so I'd love if more of those got into jails or prisons.
• 31:06
  Maybe me and you can put our heads together and figure out how to get even more of that.
• 31:09
  And if you're in the audience, if you want a gift towards that, you donate to the ministry on our website, exchangemessage.org.
• 31:16
  You can designate it for prison Bibles, jail Bibles.
• 31:19
  And we'll make sure that money is used for that reason.
• 31:22
  I think
• 31:22
  I think there's a great opportunity for you guys have reading time in there.
• 31:26
  I mean as I understand definitely.
• 31:28
  Yeah And you could be a really good influence on your celly there too.
• 31:33
  Celly?
• 31:34
  What is that your cellmate Okay Yeah, cuz that's probably the one person you spend the most time with depending on where you're at and I know I spent a lot of time with my I
• 31:44
  know a lot of it was talking about Nonsense and joking enough to keep your sanity into where you're not just looking like a crazy person talking to the wall, but
• 31:52
  After So you accept Christ you're done with the exchange Bible study.
• 31:55
  Yeah, And this was I think in January and it's also dropped me off at the house and I'm sitting there and I'm like, you know, I think I want to get baptized and
• 32:08
  The thought had been on my mind for a while, but I don't know if I'm ready.
• 32:11
  I didn't know if I was worthy.
• 32:12
  some things I do that are childish and stuff.
• 32:15
  it's like, like what would qualify me to you were young in your faith?
• 32:19
  Yeah.
• 32:19
  so I kind of it put put off throwing that out there to Saso.
• 32:23
  I was you know, I'm just gonna do it.
• 32:25
  And I told him and then he responded quickly and he gave me your number to set it up.
• 32:31
  And I was just I was really happy.
• 32:32
  I was really looking forward to it.
• 32:34
  which members of your family came to your baptism?
• 32:36
  I've never had that much of my family show up for anything for me.
• 32:39
  But it was my dad, my mom, who I have not seen in the same room for years.
• 32:44
  My twin brother, my older sister, all of her children, her husband, my brother-in-law and my grandmother.
• 32:51
  And there was.
• 32:53
  Saso and Rebecca and Ben and Diane, who have been there supporting me from the beginning, which is.
• 33:00
  I love those two, they're really great people.
• 33:03
  I don't know what other my family member showed up, but that was a lot more than I could ask for.
• 33:09
  I said, I haven't seen that much of my family in one room, let alone I haven't seen me being the reason that they're smiling.
• 33:15
  Because usually there was always there and they were worried.
• 33:18
  Tony, I'm fearing for your life.
• 33:20
  Or Tony, stop.
• 33:21
  Tony, are you OK?
• 33:22
  That's the look I'm used to seeing.
• 33:24
  My twin brother he left pretty abruptly That day I remember that cuz I came out he says bro, it's good to see you.
• 33:30
  I love you I'm proud of you.
• 33:31
  I gotta go and he took off after you after the baptism Yeah, and it's kind of like he had rushed to go somewhere and I remember a month ago it was Mother's Day when he told me this
• 33:41
  because we were sitting there At my sister's house He goes I'm so
• 33:44
  I'm so grateful to God to have you back in my life because he was one person that was always telling me, I love you, brother.
• 33:52
  But when are you going to get your act together?
• 33:54
  Do you realize how mad I am at you and my older brother Nick that I'm the only one of us brothers keeping it strong and holding together?
• 34:01
  goes, you guys come and ask us for help.
• 34:04
  But who do I have to lean on?
• 34:06
  Like when I need my brothers and sisters, he goes, I lean on God.
• 34:09
  But he deals with a lot.
• 34:10
  My brother deals with a lot.
• 34:11
  And he goes, but I miss my brothers.
• 34:13
  And he goes, do you realize this?
• 34:14
  Do you realize it's just me and my me and Nicole?
• 34:16
  Where are you guys?
• 34:17
  There's supposed to be four of us.
• 34:19
  And he would tell me, you know, my worst fear is going to heaven and not seeing my two brothers up there with me.
• 34:26
  And that was one thing that really stuck with me.
• 34:28
  And like, because that's what he would always tell me.
• 34:29
  That's my worst fear is getting to heaven and not seeing you guys there because you're down the wrong path.
• 34:33
  And so we're we're at my sister's house.
• 34:35
  And he says, I'm so grateful to have you back in my life.
• 34:37
  And goes, I'm sorry that I rushed out of there.
• 34:40
  But I remember looking up at you and you're giving your testimony and thinking, wow, look at what God has done with my brother.
• 34:47
  And he goes, and I couldn't take it because it was so overwhelming for me.
• 34:50
  I was happy, but I didn't want to cry in front of everybody.
• 34:53
  He goes, just I was in awe.
• 34:55
  So I had to leave because I'm sorry.
• 34:56
  And he just he still didn't give me a big hug.
• 34:59
  And that's the conversation that
• 35:00
  Is a good conversation.
• 35:02
  I just I'm happier back brother My twin brother
• 35:05
  Well, I definitely understand why he would get emotional.
• 35:08
  mean, I'm sitting here listening to your story, even though having listened to it several times before fighting back emotion, because it's incredible, brother, to look at your life
• 35:18
  and see when God has done and just say, keep going.
• 35:21
  Keep humbly walking with the Lord daily.
• 35:24
  Stay in your Bible.
• 35:25
  Keep praying.
• 35:26
  So, very proud of you.
• 35:28
  Thank you.
• 35:28
  Yeah.
• 35:29
  we love you guys.
• 35:30
  Pray to the Lord of the harvest.
• 35:32
  You guys just heard here what God can do.
• 35:35
  I mean, nobody's out of the reach of God.
• 35:37
  Would you say, Tony?
• 35:38
  Yes.
• 35:38
  Yeah, and the harvest is white.
• 35:40
  It's ready.
• 35:41
  It's Jesus said, go.
• 35:43
  The only problem we have with the harvest, we don't have enough laborers.
• 35:46
  And I think we just got tremendous insight as laborers on how to reach somebody who's battling addiction, somebody who's on the street, somebody who's been in jail.
• 35:55
  I mean, what makes a difference in that person's life helps us build a relationship so we can give them the gospel.
• 36:00
  It's huge.
• 36:01
  And Tony, thank you.
• 36:03
  You've encouraged our whole community, our audience, I'm sure is going to benefit from this greatly for.
• 36:08
  years and years to come brother well love you guys will see you next week