Transcript

Sharri | 1 October · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Thank you, James. Good evening.
0:07
Speaker 2: I am, of course, Caleb Bond, filling in for Shari
0:10
Speaker 2: Markson tonight. Treasurer Jim Chalmers refuses to take responsibility for
0:13
Speaker 2: inflation that the Reserve Bank is trying to fix, while
0:16
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister takes responsibility for decisions of the Reserve Bank.
0:20
Speaker 1: It was a funny old day. More on that in
0:22
Speaker 1: a moment.
0:23
Speaker 2: The latest on the attempted hijacking of a plane bound
0:25
Speaker 2: for Tel Aviv, former IDF intelligence officer Dan Pfefferman will
0:30
Speaker 2: join me, and a coalition state government refusing to back
0:33
Speaker 2: the federal coalition's support for nuclear energy. Now, we know
0:37
Speaker 2: that politicians lie, and to some degree we've baked that
0:40
Speaker 2: into our assessment of them.
0:42
Speaker 1: We know they spin, we know they feed as bull,
0:44
Speaker 1: we know they.
0:45
Speaker 2: Duck and weave reality, and so sometimes we just shrug
0:48
Speaker 2: our shoulders and quote Bruce Hornsby in The Range. But
1:03
Speaker 2: it's not just the way it is, because sometimes the
1:06
Speaker 2: lack of accountability is so egregious that it can't be ignored.
1:10
Speaker 1: And every now and again, a journalist sticks.
1:12
Speaker 2: Their head above the parapet and levels the question that hurts.
1:16
Speaker 1: Of course, Latika Burke.
1:17
Speaker 2: Gave a masterclass in that to the Prime Minister in
1:19
Speaker 2: New York last week.
1:22
Speaker 3: Prime Minister, here in New.
1:22
Speaker 4: York on Wednesday night, you will receive an award for
1:25
Speaker 4: being a global citizen. Don't you feel like a bit
1:28
Speaker 4: of a fraud accepting this award when you screwed up
1:32
Speaker 4: the response to the worst massacre since Port Arthur in
1:36
Speaker 4: the polls? You're taking Labor to one point shy of
1:39
Speaker 4: Julia Gillard when you rolled her. And your net negatives
1:43
Speaker 4: are worse than Scott Morrison.
1:44
Speaker 1: No.
1:44
Speaker 2: No. I think that one is still singing, stinging, I
1:48
Speaker 2: should say. You can see how much he hated it.
1:50
Speaker 2: But today was the turn of Treasurer Jim Chalmers. He
2:02
Speaker 2: held a news conference in Brisbane this morning and he
2:04
Speaker 2: was hit with this question from our reporter, Harry Clark,
2:08
Speaker 2: about his lack of accountability over inflation and interest rates.
2:13
Speaker 5: Treasurer, back in 2022, just before he came into office,
2:16
Speaker 5: rates rose from 0.1% to 0.35% under Scott Morrison. You
2:21
Speaker 5: accused him of having, quote, an excuse for everything and
2:23
Speaker 5: a plan for nothing and said he took, quote, all
2:26
Speaker 5: the credit when things went well, but, quote, none of
2:28
Speaker 5: the responsibility when they didn't. Rates are now 4.6%, yet
2:32
Speaker 5: you're saying it's not your fault. Aren't you doing the
2:34
Speaker 5: same thing? Why shouldn't you take responsibility for the state
2:37
Speaker 5: of the economy?
2:39
Speaker 2: Got him right between the eyes. And this is how
2:42
Speaker 2: the Treasurer responded.
2:44
Speaker 6: Well, I take responsibility for all aspects of my part
2:48
Speaker 6: of the fight against inflation. And that means continuing to
2:52
Speaker 6: manage the budget responsibly, rolling out cost of living relief
2:56
Speaker 6: where we can afford to do that, and also dealing
2:58
Speaker 6: with some of these longer-term challenges that Scott Morrison and
3:01
Speaker 6: his colleagues left neglected for too long.
3:05
Speaker 2: I take responsibility for everything I am doing to reduce inflation.
3:09
Speaker 1: Well, what, Treasurer? What are you doing?
3:12
Speaker 2: Government spending hit 26.9% of GDP last financial year, the
3:17
Speaker 2: highest level in four decades. Excluding COVID, of course, which
3:23
Speaker 2: we know what happened there. Is that what you're doing
3:26
Speaker 2: to reduce inflation? Roughly 1.5 million migrants moving here since
3:30
Speaker 2: you were elected four years ago.
3:33
Speaker 1: Is that it?
3:34
Speaker 2: Reserve Bank Deputy Governor Sarah Hunter told a parliamentary committee
3:37
Speaker 2: two weeks ago that public spending was expected to grow
3:41
Speaker 2: twice as fast as the economy in the year to
3:44
Speaker 2: June 2027. Maybe that's what you're doing to reduce inflation.
3:48
Speaker 2: I mean, I find it hard to believe that households are,
3:52
Speaker 2: on the whole, unnecessarily spending a cent more than they
3:56
Speaker 2: need to. They're simply spending more because the cost of
3:59
Speaker 2: goods and services has increased. So it only leaves one
4:02
Speaker 2: more cause, the government, and its seemingly endless pot of cash,
4:07
Speaker 2: cash that they either take from you or put on
4:10
Speaker 2: the credit card. Not once under this government has the
4:14
Speaker 2: quarterly inflation rate come in at.
4:17
Speaker 1: or below the RBA's target.
4:19
Speaker 2: And now they've put interest rates up again, and will
4:22
Speaker 2: probably do so again in November, and possibly even again
4:25
Speaker 2: after that, because things are running too hot and inflation
4:28
Speaker 2: is not being controlled. And despite everything the Treasurer says
4:33
Speaker 2: about it's not his fault, it's all because of the
4:35
Speaker 2: Middle East and Orange Man bad, Reserve Bank Governor Michelle
4:39
Speaker 2: Bullock could not have been clearer this week that it's
4:42
Speaker 2: being driven by domestic pressures. No doubt the international market
4:47
Speaker 2: is part of the whole thing, but domestic issues are
4:50
Speaker 2: very much at play. And all the Treasurer can do
4:54
Speaker 2: is point in the other direction. As I say, we
4:57
Speaker 2: all know that politicians lie and spin. But this should
5:00
Speaker 2: be beyond lies and spin because it's making ordinary Australians poorer.
5:06
Speaker 2: The Australian's front page on Tuesday quite beautifully showed how
5:09
Speaker 2: every time interest rates have gone down, the Treasurer has
5:12
Speaker 2: said it's because of the hard work of the government
5:14
Speaker 2: to wind in inflation. And on every occasion they've gone up,
5:18
Speaker 2: he said, ah, well, it's someone else's fault or there's
5:21
Speaker 2: something else at play. The problem with saying that other
5:25
Speaker 2: people should take accountability for what happens on their watch
5:28
Speaker 2: is is that eventually you might be in charge and
5:32
Speaker 2: then the same standard will apply to you. Makes you
5:35
Speaker 2: look a bit silly when you say the other bloke
5:37
Speaker 2: was always at fault when things happened on his watch
5:39
Speaker 2: and nothing's your fault when it happens on yours, apart
5:42
Speaker 2: from all the good things, of course. We are being
5:46
Speaker 2: taken for mugs. Do not believe your lying eyes, they
5:50
Speaker 2: tell us. Well, Treasurer, we can see what's going on
5:53
Speaker 2: and it's not us who's lying.
5:58
Speaker 1: Now, there's been a lot of talk.
5:59
Speaker 2: Today about the ban on credit card surcharges being passed
6:03
Speaker 2: onto consumers and how it's another impost on small business
6:06
Speaker 2: and all this. A lot of people seem to be
6:08
Speaker 2: very angry about it. But I really don't see what
6:11
Speaker 2: the issue is. The rule is not that fees cannot
6:14
Speaker 2: be passed onto consumers in any form.
6:16
Speaker 1: The rule is that a.
6:18
Speaker 2: Shop or a restaurant or an airline or whatever it
6:21
Speaker 2: is can't advertise a product or service at one price...
6:25
Speaker 2: and then sell it to you for more than when
6:27
Speaker 2: they bring up the till. I'm sure you've encountered this before,
6:30
Speaker 2: where a coffee costs $ 5.
6:32
Speaker 1: 50 or whatever it.
6:33
Speaker 2: Is on the board, and then you get charged $ 5.
6:35
Speaker 3: 75.
6:36
Speaker 2: Every place has a different surcharge. Some of them are
6:40
Speaker 2: flat fees. Some of them are a percentage of the
6:42
Speaker 2: total bill.
6:43
Speaker 1: It was all over the shop.
6:45
Speaker 2: And in my view, it wasn't fair. You should just
6:48
Speaker 2: be told from the outset that what you are going
6:50
Speaker 2: to pay. I mean, the vending machines in the building
6:54
Speaker 2: where I broadcast from, for instance, sell cans of soft
6:57
Speaker 2: drink for $ 2.
6:57
Speaker 1: 50.
6:58
Speaker 2: But then it says, or it did say, you'll be
7:01
Speaker 2: charged a 20 cent surcharge. Now, granted, that's more transparent
7:05
Speaker 2: than a lot of places where you wouldn't know what
7:07
Speaker 2: the surcharge was until you were literally putting your card
7:10
Speaker 2: on the thing. But I always thought, why don't you
7:13
Speaker 2: just make the 20 cents part of the cost of
7:15
Speaker 2: the drink and be done with it? Just be upfront
7:18
Speaker 2: about the cost of the product. Not that that's how
7:21
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister was selling it today.
7:24
Speaker 7: Every time you tap, those little surcharges add up. Right now,
7:27
Speaker 7: they're costing Aussies $ 1. 6 billion each and every year. But
7:32
Speaker 7: from today, they're banned, saving you money every time you tap.
7:36
Speaker 7: So whether you're at the supermarket, paying bills, or buying
7:39
Speaker 7: a cup of coffee, the price you see is the
7:41
Speaker 7: price you pay.
7:43
Speaker 2: Now, no, it won't make anything cheaper because the business
7:46
Speaker 2: still has to pay the fees and they're going to
7:49
Speaker 2: recover that from the consumer, obviously. The PM is just
7:53
Speaker 2: talking rubbish. He shouldn't get away with it. But don't
7:55
Speaker 2: let that cloud why the change has actually happened. The
8:00
Speaker 2: whole point of this change, when it was announced by
8:02
Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank in March... was to make things more
8:04
Speaker 2: transparent so you'd know exactly what you'd pay when you
8:08
Speaker 2: go to pay, not to stop cafes or anyone else
8:11
Speaker 2: from passing on the cost that the bank or the
8:14
Speaker 2: machine owner imposes on the merchant, but for that cost
8:18
Speaker 2: to be reflected in the stated cost of the product.
8:22
Speaker 2: I mean, imagine if you went to the supermarket and
8:23
Speaker 2: GST was added at the till, so you didn't really
8:26
Speaker 2: know what the bill was going to be until you
8:28
Speaker 2: got there. Or if you filled up your car with
8:31
Speaker 2: fuel and then they added the excise when you paid
8:34
Speaker 2: So the Bowser said you'd put 50 litres in at
8:37
Speaker 2: $ 2 a litre, so $ 100, but then you go to
8:39
Speaker 2: pay and it rings up to $ 126.
8:40
Speaker 1: 85.
8:41
Speaker 2: Or if a packet of cigarettes was advertised at $ 15,
8:45
Speaker 2: because that's the raw cost of the product, but then
8:48
Speaker 2: they scan it and it's.
8:49
Speaker 1: $ 40 because the tax has been added.
8:51
Speaker 2: Not that anyone would have to worry about that anymore
8:54
Speaker 2: because most smokers buy illicit cigarettes on which no tax
8:57
Speaker 2: is paid.
8:58
Speaker 1: But you see the point. People would go spare.
9:01
Speaker 2: They'd say that's unfair, it's stupid. that they don't actually
9:04
Speaker 2: know what they're paying until they pay. The fair thing
9:08
Speaker 2: to do is to reflect it in the actual cost
9:11
Speaker 2: on the ticket.
9:13
Speaker 1: And that's what ought to happen.
9:14
Speaker 2: Pass on the charge in the cost of the product.
9:18
Speaker 2: It's done for every other part of the cost of
9:21
Speaker 2: getting the product to the shop and making it and
9:24
Speaker 2: paying the staff and the power bill and all this.
9:27
Speaker 2: I don't see why the cost of running a point
9:30
Speaker 2: of service system should be any different. All right, plenty
9:37
Speaker 2: to get across. So joining me now, former New South
9:39
Speaker 2: Wales Police Minister David Elliott and culture writer for The Australian,
9:43
Speaker 2: Jenna Clark. Good to see you both. Let's start with
9:47
Speaker 2: Annika Wells. Talk about failing upwards. The communications minister has
9:52
Speaker 2: just been named in Time magazine's top 100 world's most
9:56
Speaker 2: influential rising stars. She received Julie Gillard's seal of approval
10:01
Speaker 2: over the minister's social media ban, saying, quote, she has
10:04
Speaker 2: emerged as one of the most significant voices in a
10:07
Speaker 2: growing global movement to reframe the relationship between technology and
10:12
Speaker 2: the wellbeing of our children.
10:14
Speaker 8: I mean.
10:15
Speaker 1: Seriously, Jenna, of all the.
10:17
Speaker 2: Movers and shakers in the world, of all the movers
10:20
Speaker 2: and shakers in the Albanese government, I don't think Annika
10:23
Speaker 2: Wells is the one I would have been putting on
10:25
Speaker 2: the top 100 list.
10:28
Speaker 9: Oh, see, I sort of disagree with you there, Caleb,
10:30
Speaker 9: because I think everything that we've seen from an economic
10:32
Speaker 9: point of view from the Albanese government has left a
10:34
Speaker 9: foul taste in my mouth. So to see at least
10:37
Speaker 9: one of them fail upwards is actually maybe a good sign.
10:39
Speaker 9: But I think she's got a target on her back because,
10:41
Speaker 9: you know, old mate Albanese does love getting those prizes.
10:45
Speaker 9: I mean, he won the UN Global Citizenship Participation Award,
10:48
Speaker 9: didn't he? And now that, you know, Annika's been identified,
10:51
Speaker 9: you watch her be demoted quicker than we can think.
10:54
Speaker 2: Well, if that's all it took to get her demoted,
10:55
Speaker 2: I think they probably would have organised it a long
10:57
Speaker 2: time ago. David, I just, you know, they're pinning it
11:01
Speaker 2: on the social media ban. And I don't know what
11:04
Speaker 2: you have seen, but I don't think the social media
11:06
Speaker 2: ban has really done all that much. I get on
11:09
Speaker 2: the bus or the tram or the train... the kids
11:12
Speaker 2: are all still scrolling through Snapchat and TikTok. I don't
11:16
Speaker 2: know how many kids have actually stopped using it, but
11:18
Speaker 2: from what I'm seeing, not many.
11:20
Speaker 10: Well, I think it was a good step forward, but
11:22
Speaker 10: it certainly wasn't the journey. I mean, there's still a
11:25
Speaker 10: long way to go if we're going to protect our
11:26
Speaker 10: kids from cyberbullying.
11:29
Speaker 11: But, I mean, I'm like you. This must have been
11:32
Speaker 11: one of those.
11:32
Speaker 10: Participation awards you get in kindergarten because, you know, we
11:36
Speaker 10: were too scared that somebody was going to miss out
11:38
Speaker 10: because there's no way in the world.
11:40
Speaker 11: that that lady.
11:41
Speaker 10: Who's been, had to stand down from every sports invitation
11:44
Speaker 10: that she's been offered because of the amount of money
11:47
Speaker 10: she's charging the taxpayers, I do not, for the life
11:49
Speaker 10: of me, I can't work out, of all the people
11:52
Speaker 10: in that parliament, I mean, is she... She has got
11:55
Speaker 10: to be the most maligned sports minister we've ever had
11:59
Speaker 10: and it's a disgrace that her behaviour has meant that
12:01
Speaker 10: she can't go to half the Australia events that she's
12:06
Speaker 10: been invited to.
12:06
Speaker 11: I'm actually quite embarrassed about that.
12:08
Speaker 10: It would be like the police minister being told that
12:10
Speaker 10: he's not allowed to go to the marching out parades
12:12
Speaker 10: of police graduation.
12:13
Speaker 1: Yes.
12:14
Speaker 11: That's her job. She's there to be our senior.
12:16
Speaker 10: number one cheerleader, and she can't do it because she's
12:19
Speaker 10: too much of an embarrassment to the government because of
12:21
Speaker 10: the amount of money she was spending.
12:22
Speaker 2: And if she hadn't taken the pee on taking her
12:24
Speaker 2: husband to things... And it wouldn't.
12:26
Speaker 1: Be an issue. I'd be willing to defend.
12:27
Speaker 11: Yep... sports ministers got to go to sports events. Absolutely.
12:30
Speaker 11: It just is.
12:30
Speaker 1: But we talk about the social media. I did note.
12:33
Speaker 2: She did go to the Brisbane Adelaide Crows finals match,
12:38
Speaker 2: which unfortunately the Adelaide Crows were knocked out by Brisbane.
12:41
Speaker 2: But she came up on the TV and she was
12:44
Speaker 2: sitting there next to the AFL boss, Andrew Dillon, at
12:47
Speaker 2: the game with her lion scarf on and she was
12:50
Speaker 2: on her phone.
12:51
Speaker 11: And I thought, oh, no, no. Unfaceable, probably. Probably, yes.
12:56
Speaker 2: The kids can't get on you. Slightly left field, Jenna,
13:00
Speaker 2: but I just love this story. It's been bubbling away
13:02
Speaker 2: for a while. There's an artist by the name of
13:05
Speaker 2: Jane Allen. She won a big art award in Queensland
13:07
Speaker 2: and 20 grand along with it. But there's been a
13:10
Speaker 2: big scandal over the fact that it looks very much
13:12
Speaker 2: like a painting by Archibald-winning artist Nicholas Harding now. Just
13:16
Speaker 2: take a look at the both of them. She's been
13:19
Speaker 2: accused of plagiarism. But the organisers of this award, the
13:24
Speaker 2: Doyles Award, have given up pursuing that $ 20, 000 prize money
13:28
Speaker 2: through legal action because they can't afford it. And instead
13:31
Speaker 2: they're now calling on Ms Allen to show some decency
13:34
Speaker 2: and give the money back.
13:37
Speaker 1: Seriously.
13:39
Speaker 2: I just read this this morning and I thought, God,
13:42
Speaker 2: someone should go and fund them to go after her.
13:45
Speaker 2: Because you look at those two paintings side by side
13:48
Speaker 2: and they look eerily similar, Jenna.
13:51
Speaker 9: Very similar. I could not, when I was looking at
13:54
Speaker 9: the story this morning as well, Caleb, I couldn't actually
13:55
Speaker 9: tell the difference between the two. So I think it
13:57
Speaker 9: is really interesting. I think that the fact that I
13:59
Speaker 9: think the artist that is accused of the plagiarism, you know,
14:03
Speaker 9: is crying how, you know, the creative arts don't get
14:06
Speaker 9: enough funding and blah, blah, blah. Well, I think that
14:08
Speaker 9: the funding shouldn't go towards you if you plagiarize. That's
14:12
Speaker 9: the last time I read the fine print. But look,
14:15
Speaker 9: only in Queensland, something like this could happen.
14:18
Speaker 2: I just don't know how someone thought... Well, I mean,
14:20
Speaker 2: I suppose she did get away with it.
14:22
Speaker 11: She did. She's not now.
14:23
Speaker 10: I mean, if that was you in a column in
14:25
Speaker 10: The Telegraph and you had played.
14:26
Speaker 1: Well, I'd be out of a job.
14:28
Speaker 11: Jen, if that was me, we would be unemployed and unemployable.
14:31
Speaker 11: So I think you're right.
14:33
Speaker 10: I think she's got to take a moral stand on
14:36
Speaker 10: this and apologise and send it back because they are
14:40
Speaker 10: just way.
14:41
Speaker 11: Too similar, those two. But you also have to ask yourself.
14:45
Speaker 10: The organisers, if they're splashing around 20 big ones, you'd
14:49
Speaker 10: think that they might check.
14:50
Speaker 11: And it ain't hard to check with AI.
14:52
Speaker 10: I mean, just give it to a 15-year-old who's banned
14:54
Speaker 10: from Facebook and they can go and check it out.
14:56
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
14:56
Speaker 11: They can go and check it out.
14:58
Speaker 12: That's a very good point.
14:58
Speaker 11: And she's got to save 20 gorillas.
15:00
Speaker 2: And it really irks me, Jenna, because, you know, the
15:03
Speaker 2: arts in this country are often denigrated and that pains
15:07
Speaker 2: me because there is a lot of great art that
15:09
Speaker 2: is produced in this country and ought to be supported.
15:12
Speaker 2: And it's stuff like this that unfortunately makes it so
15:15
Speaker 2: much harder to make the argument that there should be
15:18
Speaker 2: funding and support for the arts when you've got people
15:21
Speaker 2: seemingly just taking the piss.
15:24
Speaker 9: I totally agree. And, look, I think this also happened
15:26
Speaker 9: to keep the theme in the Brisbane Queensland circuit. This
15:31
Speaker 9: also happened to an incredible portrait artist a couple of
15:35
Speaker 9: weeks ago when Lockie Neal, who, you know, the former
15:39
Speaker 9: Brisbane Lions great, fronted an AFL tribunal and an artist
15:42
Speaker 9: decided to do a courtroom sketch of him.
15:44
Speaker 1: Yes.
15:44
Speaker 11: Yes.
15:45
Speaker 9: And someone ripped off that painting and ripped off that
15:48
Speaker 9: beautiful piece of art and then started selling it around
15:51
Speaker 9: on outlets like Etsy for people to wear on T-shirts
15:54
Speaker 9: at grand final day. So it is, it's taking the
15:56
Speaker 9: P and I just don't think it's not great because
15:58
Speaker 9: there are some legitimately, we have some of the most
16:01
Speaker 9: brilliant artists in the world and it is really sad
16:04
Speaker 9: to see it when the only time it makes the
16:06
Speaker 9: news is when stuff like this happens.
16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed.
16:09
Speaker 2: Let's go international for a minute to the British government PM,
16:12
Speaker 2: reasonably new PM, Andy Burnham, is floating the idea of
16:15
Speaker 2: rejoining the European Union.
16:16
Speaker 1: Take a look at this.
16:18
Speaker 13: We could stay as we are. That's definitely an option
16:20
Speaker 13: if people think this is the right place to stay.
16:23
Speaker 13: We could look at what George Osborne has said about
16:26
Speaker 13: a customs union. We could look at what the Liberal
16:28
Speaker 13: Democrats said at their conference about single market. Or we
16:31
Speaker 13: could go all the way.
16:34
Speaker 2: Go all the way, David. They had a referendum on it.
16:39
Speaker 2: David Cameron may well rue the day that he had
16:41
Speaker 2: that referendum, but they had a referendum. The people of
16:44
Speaker 2: Britain said they wanted to leave the EU. Burnham has done,
16:48
Speaker 2: and it may be a honeymoon period, but he has
16:51
Speaker 2: actually regained some ground for Labor in the polls. He's
16:54
Speaker 2: taken a bit of shine off of reform. I'm not
16:58
Speaker 2: sure he should be throwing this sort of stuff around
17:00
Speaker 2: right now.
17:01
Speaker 11: It's high risk for him.
17:02
Speaker 10: I mean, it's an ultimate disruptor attack on reform, on Nigel,
17:07
Speaker 10: knowing full well that everybody identifies Nigel. So he's... I
17:10
Speaker 10: suspect they've done some polling and they've worked out that
17:13
Speaker 10: there are enough people that supported Brexit who now regret it.
17:18
Speaker 10: And when you're looking at the polls in countries like
17:21
Speaker 10: the United Kingdom, like the United States and Australia, it's
17:24
Speaker 10: that middle ground.
17:26
Speaker 11: It used to be 10%, but it's now 60%.
17:28
Speaker 10: So they're looking at that middle ground and he's trying
17:31
Speaker 10: to work out how much of that 60% or 40%
17:35
Speaker 10: of that middle ground, that swinging vote, that soft conservative
17:38
Speaker 10: vote that they can drag back. I've been there a
17:41
Speaker 10: couple of times since Brexit. I didn't find anything... I'm
17:45
Speaker 10: not for any length of time, but I didn't find
17:47
Speaker 10: anything that was offensive about the situation that they're in now.
17:51
Speaker 10: I haven't crossed borders since Brexit between the UK... I
17:55
Speaker 10: don't think I have..... between the UK and the continent. But,
17:58
Speaker 10: you know, they're not... People aren't marching down the... You know,
18:03
Speaker 10: they're not marching down Piccadilly Square demanding that they go
18:07
Speaker 10: back into... into the European Union. So I'd be very
18:11
Speaker 10: surprised if this isn't motivated by anything other than raw
18:15
Speaker 10: polling politics.
18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, and David's probably right on that, Jenna, but it also,
18:21
Speaker 2: if you're going to go down that road, hands Nigel
18:23
Speaker 2: Farage something to campaign on too, because, of course, he
18:26
Speaker 2: can't campaign on Brexit at the moment because it's done,
18:29
Speaker 2: but it puts it squarely back on the agenda as
18:32
Speaker 2: an issue for reform as well to drum.
18:33
Speaker 1: Up their vote. Definitely.
18:35
Speaker 9: And I think adding credence to what David said, and
18:37
Speaker 9: he would know better than most having been in that
18:39
Speaker 9: space before when it comes to politics, I think now
18:42
Speaker 9: it's up to the government, as opposed to someone like
18:44
Speaker 9: Farage and the Tories, to really prosecute an economic rationale
18:49
Speaker 9: and reason as to why there should be a reunion
18:52
Speaker 9: with the continent. Because I think as we've seen, as
18:54
Speaker 9: we're experiencing with the cost of living crisis, I think
18:56
Speaker 9: it's you know, places in the UK, it's even worse.
19:00
Speaker 9: So economics should potentially win the day and it'll be
19:03
Speaker 9: interesting to see what Burnham does next in this specific argument.
19:07
Speaker 2: Just quickly before we go, Chris Fagan announced today that
19:09
Speaker 2: he'll be stepping down as the coach of the Brisbane
19:12
Speaker 2: Lions after three premierships.
19:13
Speaker 11: Take a look.
19:16
Speaker 8: The responsibility and the pressure of being an AFL coach
19:19
Speaker 8: is relentless and I've been doing it for 10 years
19:22
Speaker 8: and pretty much you eat, sleep and breathe it every
19:25
Speaker 8: day of the year. And I've just got to the
19:28
Speaker 8: stage where I just don't want to do that anymore.
19:31
Speaker 1: It's a ripper effort, though. I mean, David, for a
19:33
Speaker 1: guy who, you know, never.
19:35
Speaker 2: Played AFL-VFL football, goes 10 years at the Lions, three premierships,
19:40
Speaker 2: I thought he'd go for a fourth, but good on him.
19:42
Speaker 10: No, no, I mean, three times lucky. You know, what
19:44
Speaker 10: they say in Hollywood, leave the stage when they're screaming
19:47
Speaker 10: for more. I think that's... exactly what we're seeing here.
19:51
Speaker 10: I mean, he's been elite. Yeah, he could go for
19:54
Speaker 10: four and then they're going to say, mate, go for
19:56
Speaker 10: five or go for an even ten.
19:58
Speaker 11: You know, they were nobodies, were they?
20:02
Speaker 1: Indeed.
20:03
Speaker 11: And he's seen them all off.
20:05
Speaker 10: I'm actually hoping that he comes to the Parramatta Oils
20:08
Speaker 10: next year.
20:11
Speaker 1: You never know what he might be able to do.
20:13
Speaker 2: I suspect, Jenna, there will be a few people in
20:14
Speaker 2: your state of Western Australia who will be quite happy
20:16
Speaker 2: to hear this news tonight. They'll be hoping that Frio
20:20
Speaker 2: gets back there next year and they're not up against fags.
20:24
Speaker 9: Yeah, look, I think that man is an absolute genius.
20:26
Speaker 9: Take off, you know, the boofy, blokey culture of AFL
20:30
Speaker 9: and that man who has harnessed and found discipline and,
20:35
Speaker 9: I guess, greatness in a bunch of young, unruly blokes.
20:39
Speaker 9: We should take our hats off to him.
20:41
Speaker 1: Indeed. Jenna, David, good to see you as always. All right.
20:45
Speaker 2: As I said in my tutorial, it was another day
20:47
Speaker 2: of Jim Chalmers blaming everyone but himself for For our
20:50
Speaker 2: economic mess, this time he took aim at the Morrison government,
20:53
Speaker 2: which last I checked had not actually been in government
20:55
Speaker 2: for more than four years.
20:57
Speaker 6: Well, I take responsibility for all aspects of my part
21:01
Speaker 6: of the fight against inflation. And that means continuing to
21:05
Speaker 6: manage the budget responsibly, rolling out cost of living relief
21:09
Speaker 6: where we can afford to do that, and also dealing
21:11
Speaker 6: with some of these longer-term challenges that Scott Morrison and
21:14
Speaker 6: his colleagues left neglected for too long.
21:18
Speaker 2: Funny, this is what he had to say back in 2022.
21:22
Speaker 6: This is a full-blown cost-of-living crisis on Scott Morrison's watch.
21:27
Speaker 2: Joining me now to discuss this and more, Liberal Senator
21:30
Speaker 2: Leah Blyth from the great state of South Australia.
21:33
Speaker 1: Leah, it's everyone's fault, but Mr Chalmers, it would seem.
21:38
Speaker 1: You set the standard. You then have to adhere to
21:41
Speaker 1: it when you're in government, surely?
21:44
Speaker 14: I think that's very fair. And this is what we've
21:46
Speaker 14: seen from this Labor government and particularly from the Treasurer
21:49
Speaker 14: in Jim Chalmers. He seems to be able to blame
21:52
Speaker 14: everybody else, but not look at himself in their own policies.
21:56
Speaker 14: And the truth of the matter is, is that Jim
21:58
Speaker 14: Chalmers is making everything worse in our economy in Australia
22:03
Speaker 14: at the moment. You know, we've got Their net zero policy,
22:06
Speaker 14: which is making it almost impossible to manufacture anything in
22:10
Speaker 14: this country. Costs of everything are going up. And the
22:14
Speaker 14: biggest spenders in the Australian economy is actually the federal government.
22:19
Speaker 14: So it's not surprising that interest rates are rising and
22:24
Speaker 14: it looks like they will continue to rise. We've got
22:26
Speaker 14: a government with out-of-control spending and they don't seem to
22:31
Speaker 14: have a plan to rein anything in. You know, they
22:33
Speaker 14: want to grow the bureaucracy. They're adding more and more
22:36
Speaker 14: red tape to things. So I think the pain is
22:39
Speaker 14: only going to get worse under Jim Chalmers. So I'm
22:42
Speaker 14: interested to see who he wants to point his finger
22:44
Speaker 14: at next.
22:45
Speaker 2: Well, on this issue of spending, you've now got state
22:48
Speaker 2: leaders getting in on it too. Chris Minns, of course,
22:51
Speaker 2: the Premier of New South Wales himself, a Labor man,
22:54
Speaker 2: has taken a swipe at the government over this.
22:56
Speaker 1: Take a look.
22:56
Speaker 6: I think every government has a responsibility to do what
23:00
Speaker 6: it can to take demand out of the economy.
23:04
Speaker 11: We've said many times.
23:05
Speaker 1: The Treasurer, New South Wales Treasurer and myself have said
23:07
Speaker 1: many times.
23:07
Speaker 8: That we have heard the advice from the RBA over
23:12
Speaker 8: the last two years that we need to be careful
23:15
Speaker 8: with public funds.
23:17
Speaker 2: So all the rhetoric is around government spending, and that
23:20
Speaker 2: would necessitate, if you're going to do something about it, cuts.
23:23
Speaker 2: You've got to cut government spending somewhere. And your leader,
23:27
Speaker 2: Angus Taylor, has written about this in the AFR this week.
23:31
Speaker 2: What would a coalition government be cutting in government spending
23:35
Speaker 2: to help inflation?
23:38
Speaker 14: I think one of the first things that has to
23:39
Speaker 14: go is net zero. And the Coalition has been very
23:42
Speaker 14: clear that that absurd policy will be canned under us.
23:47
Speaker 14: And we've got a bill that will be introduced into
23:49
Speaker 14: the Parliament to do that even before the next election.
23:53
Speaker 14: That's got to be the first thing on the chopping block.
23:55
Speaker 14: We've also been very clear that we will go through
23:57
Speaker 14: and we will cut the red tape. Under a coalition government,
24:02
Speaker 14: every Australian taxpayer gets a tax break.
24:05
Speaker 15: You know, we're going to.
24:06
Speaker 14: End bracket creep in this country. So the coalition has
24:10
Speaker 14: a plan to make sure that we're going to get
24:13
Speaker 14: Australia manufacturing again, get Australia growing things again, so farming.
24:19
Speaker 14: we've got to be able to make, build and grow
24:23
Speaker 14: everything that we need right here. So we need that
24:26
Speaker 14: sovereign capability and that resilience within our own economy. And
24:30
Speaker 14: I think Chris Min sounds like a Premier who's about
24:33
Speaker 14: to go into an election. So he realises that Australians
24:37
Speaker 14: are sick to death of governments living well beyond their
24:40
Speaker 14: means when Australians are expected to pinch pennies and make
24:44
Speaker 14: their household budgets balance.
24:46
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that net zero and red tape would
24:48
Speaker 2: work well electorally, but part of cutting government spending also
24:52
Speaker 2: sometimes is things that the electorate will not like. And
24:55
Speaker 2: I think that's what Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey discovered
24:59
Speaker 2: in 2014 when they tried to have some kind of
25:02
Speaker 2: austerity budget.
25:03
Speaker 1: And the public went nuts.
25:05
Speaker 2: It was part of what eventually led to the end
25:08
Speaker 2: of that Abbott government. Would you be willing to take
25:11
Speaker 2: that on and face those consequences?
25:15
Speaker 14: I think history shows us that we will need to
25:18
Speaker 14: do that and you can look to people like Margaret
25:22
Speaker 14: Thatcher in the UK, but the story needs to be told.
25:26
Speaker 14: And I'm not sure, while Australians are hurting now, I'm
25:30
Speaker 14: not sure we're in a place yet where we are
25:32
Speaker 14: willing to take some of those austerity measures. So this
25:36
Speaker 14: may sound controversial, but in some ways people need to
25:39
Speaker 14: hurt more to realise that government cannot be the solution.
25:43
Speaker 14: to all of their problems. And a lot of these
25:46
Speaker 14: problems are being created by government. But government has to
25:49
Speaker 14: rein in its spending. 20 years ago, Australia had zero
25:54
Speaker 14: national debt. Today, we are hurtling beyond $ 1 trillion. So
26:00
Speaker 14: Australia's economy is not in a place where we can
26:03
Speaker 14: absorb global shocks and Australia is going to need to
26:07
Speaker 14: and governments are going to need to stop with sugar
26:10
Speaker 14: hit policies and actually start living within their means because
26:13
Speaker 14: our prosperity is dependent on it and we cannot lift
26:16
Speaker 14: productivity in this country unless we are going to seriously
26:20
Speaker 14: look at government overspending. And, you know, we know that
26:25
Speaker 14: capital will move where it is going to make the
26:30
Speaker 14: most gains, and unfortunately that is not in Australia at
26:33
Speaker 14: the moment.
26:34
Speaker 2: When you say people need to feel the pain, do
26:35
Speaker 2: you mean the pain of the current economic circumstances, so
26:38
Speaker 2: they wake up to the fact that government spending needs
26:41
Speaker 2: to be cut or they need to feel the pain
26:43
Speaker 2: of the government spending being cut in order to reap
26:46
Speaker 2: the long-term benefits of that?
26:49
Speaker 14: The first rather than the latter. So I think they've
26:51
Speaker 14: got to feel the pain of what a poorly managed
26:54
Speaker 14: economy does. And I think, you know, we're up to
26:57
Speaker 14: our 16th rate rise under this Labor government. You know,
27:01
Speaker 14: we've still got a lot of things that are hurting
27:05
Speaker 14: businesses and but people still. I think this is this
27:10
Speaker 14: is where the pain is going to need to be
27:13
Speaker 14: felt more. And I know there are families and there
27:17
Speaker 14: are businesses out there that are struggling. They are struggling
27:21
Speaker 14: to keep the doors of their businesses open. They're not
27:23
Speaker 14: able to balance their household budget. But, you know, universally,
27:29
Speaker 14: I think there are still government handouts there. And until
27:32
Speaker 14: government is able to rein those things in and businesses
27:36
Speaker 14: are able to get back to doing what they do best,
27:39
Speaker 14: we're not going to see any great improvement in our economy.
27:42
Speaker 1: But you hope this will give the electorate a wake-up.
27:44
Speaker 11: Call I hope so.
27:47
Speaker 14: I think, as I said, there are a lot of
27:49
Speaker 14: people who are doing it tough and I've spent a
27:51
Speaker 14: lot of time speaking particularly to businesses here in South
27:54
Speaker 14: Australia who are Some of these businesses have been around
27:57
Speaker 14: for 30, 40, 50 years and they're at the point
28:01
Speaker 14: now where they cannot take any more punishment. Their power
28:05
Speaker 14: prices are through the roof. There are so many barriers
28:09
Speaker 14: to them employing people. They've got payroll tax. Every single
28:14
Speaker 14: dollar that they earn they feel like the government is
28:16
Speaker 14: taking $ 1. 20 back from them and they just cannot make
28:19
Speaker 14: ends meet. That is the unfortunate side effect of a
28:25
Speaker 14: Labor government that's more interested in spending money and looking
28:30
Speaker 14: after its union mates rather than actually doing what's best
28:33
Speaker 14: for the Australian economy.
28:34
Speaker 1: Indeed. Senator Blyth, thank you for your time.
28:36
Speaker 2: After the break, the worrying number of Aussies slipping into
28:39
Speaker 2: negative equity as house prices tumble.
28:41
Speaker 1: Don't go away.
28:46
Speaker 2: A few economic stories I want to get into, but
28:48
Speaker 2: first I just want to return to Treasurer Jim Chalmers
28:51
Speaker 2: refusing to take accountability for inflation today.
28:55
Speaker 6: Well, I take responsibility for all aspects of my part
28:59
Speaker 6: of the fight against inflation. And that means continuing to
29:03
Speaker 6: manage the budget responsibly, rolling out cost of living relief
29:07
Speaker 6: where we can afford to do that, and also dealing
29:09
Speaker 6: with some of these longer-term challenges that Scott Morrison and
29:12
Speaker 6: his colleagues left neglected for too long.
29:16
Speaker 2: Joining me now on the desk is Eminence Advisor, he's
29:18
Speaker 2: Dimitri Berstein. Dimitri, good to see you as always.
29:20
Speaker 1: I was talking.
29:22
Speaker 2: To Leah Blyth about this before, but he set a standard,
29:27
Speaker 2: the Treasurer. Things go wrong under the Morrison government, it's
29:30
Speaker 2: the Morrison government's fault. Surely he should just be able
29:33
Speaker 2: to own up and say, look, things aren't going well
29:35
Speaker 2: at the moment.
29:36
Speaker 1: I mean, we can all see what's happening.
29:37
Speaker 2: If you've got a mortgage like I do, I'm feeling
29:40
Speaker 2: it in my repayments every fortnight.
29:43
Speaker 1: Just admit that something is wrong.
29:46
Speaker 12: Well, I think the Americans call it the pottery barn rule.
29:49
Speaker 12: You break it, you board it.
29:52
Speaker 11: They have.
29:52
Speaker 12: You know, the Albanese government has just layer upon layer
29:56
Speaker 12: of regulation, tax.
29:58
Speaker 11: spend.
29:59
Speaker 12: And it's true that they did not inherit a great situation,
30:06
Speaker 12: but they've just made it worse, much, much worse.
30:10
Speaker 2: The thing that always perplexed me, though, about the argument, oh, well,
30:12
Speaker 2: you know, we inherited high inflation and, of course, there
30:16
Speaker 2: was high spending and debt, et cetera, all of which
30:19
Speaker 2: is true. And I had issues at the time about,
30:22
Speaker 2: during COVID, the huge amount of money that was flooded
30:25
Speaker 2: into the economy at the same time as you had
30:28
Speaker 2: historically low interest rates. I mean, it didn't take an
30:30
Speaker 2: economist like yourself to foretell what was going to come.
30:34
Speaker 2: But the current government throws that around as though they
30:38
Speaker 2: would not have done exactly the same thing or that
30:41
Speaker 2: the result would have been somehow different. I mean, Labor
30:44
Speaker 2: would have gone harder during COVID if they'd had the opportunity.
30:48
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure they can make the argument that
30:50
Speaker 2: we inherited such a bad situation and we're doing everything
30:53
Speaker 2: to fix it, because the reality is they would have
30:55
Speaker 2: delivered us the same situation, if not worse, if they'd
30:58
Speaker 2: been in charge at the time.
30:59
Speaker 12: I think that's a fair observation. But I think one
31:04
Speaker 12: of the unfortunate skills of the modern politician is the
31:07
Speaker 12: lack of reflection. I think, I mean, in hindsight, it's
31:11
Speaker 12: a wonderful thing. And what the government did during COVID,
31:15
Speaker 12: you know, I wouldn't have done in hindsight. But at
31:19
Speaker 12: the time when there was decision-making under conditions of uncertainty,
31:23
Speaker 12: you throw everything at it. The issue is that nobody
31:26
Speaker 12: has sat back and said, hmm, what did we do right?
31:30
Speaker 3: What did we do wrong?
31:31
Speaker 11: What can we learn for next time?
31:33
Speaker 12: And that's the same thing that happened after the GFC
31:36
Speaker 12: in 2007, 2008, when Wayne Swan, Jim Chalmers' mentor.
31:43
Speaker 3: was in charge.
31:44
Speaker 12: He claimed credit for saving the Australian economy. You know,
31:46
Speaker 12: it wasn't the government. It was China buying up all
31:51
Speaker 12: our commodities. So there's just a complete lack of reflection on,
31:55
Speaker 12: you know, looking back and saying what happened and what
31:59
Speaker 12: we're seeing is a treasurer who is unwilling to do that.
32:03
Speaker 12: I mean, I know that Angus Taylor referred to him
32:06
Speaker 12: as no more than a media advisor. And candidly, I
32:11
Speaker 12: think that's an insult to many media advisors out there.
32:13
Speaker 2: Indeed. And of course, you've got the big issue of
32:16
Speaker 2: government spending and they just don't seem to want to
32:18
Speaker 2: rein that in. We've been over that many times. One
32:20
Speaker 2: of the other things that the Reserve Bank has been
32:22
Speaker 2: talking about is these 5% deposit schemes, or the 5%
32:27
Speaker 2: deposit scheme, that a lot of first-home buyers have bought
32:30
Speaker 2: a property under in the last six months and a year.
32:34
Speaker 2: And we're talking about reductions in prices in the housing market.
32:39
Speaker 2: They've made a pretty obvious statement, which is that those
32:42
Speaker 2: who are on that scheme are more likely to go
32:44
Speaker 2: into negative equity. I think we all kind of knew that,
32:48
Speaker 2: but it underlines the danger of what the government has
32:51
Speaker 2: done with the tax settings... since May because it was
32:55
Speaker 2: all apparently to help first-home buyers, but it is actually
32:57
Speaker 2: dudding a great deal of first-home buyers.
32:59
Speaker 12: Oh, for sure, and it's also going to dud a
33:00
Speaker 12: lot of taxpayers because they're guaranteeing this. But, you know,
33:03
Speaker 12: in many cases, a lot of these people were already
33:06
Speaker 12: underwater when they moved in. When you add in stamp duty,
33:09
Speaker 12: which on average is 4%, 5% to 5.5% in Victoria,
33:14
Speaker 12: thanks very much, you know, to exit will cost you 2%
33:18
Speaker 12: in real estate commissions. So a lot of them are
33:20
Speaker 12: already underwater to start with. add in a projected decline
33:25
Speaker 12: peak to trough, 10% to 15%, and a deliberate government
33:30
Speaker 12: policy to slow the growth rate of house price appreciation,
33:36
Speaker 12: and you're going to have a lot of people who
33:38
Speaker 12: have a choice of either declaring bankruptcy or becoming indentured servants.
33:42
Speaker 2: Indeed, and you mentioned this 15%. That is what the
33:45
Speaker 2: AMP is now. predicting will be the plunge, which, you know,
33:50
Speaker 2: that's 140 grand on average off house prices.
33:54
Speaker 1: Which is huge.
33:56
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure whether they've done the political calculations
33:59
Speaker 2: correctly on all of this, because, of course, you know,
34:01
Speaker 2: they are counting on, well, that'll be good for first
34:03
Speaker 2: home buyers who want to get into the market. But
34:06
Speaker 2: there's also a great number of people who own a
34:09
Speaker 2: property and a great number of people who are heading
34:11
Speaker 2: towards retirement who wouldn't mind cashing in their property so
34:15
Speaker 2: that someone else could buy it. But they're going to
34:17
Speaker 2: be less likely to do that if they know that, well,
34:20
Speaker 2: maybe I'll wait another couple of years and try and
34:21
Speaker 2: get a bit more money out of it. I'm not
34:23
Speaker 2: sure any of it actually works in the way the
34:25
Speaker 2: government intends.
34:26
Speaker 11: I think that's true.
34:28
Speaker 12: And I think there's a little sleeper in there, which
34:29
Speaker 12: I've been talking about with some of my friends and colleagues,
34:33
Speaker 12: and that's APRA.
34:35
Speaker 11: And, you know.
34:37
Speaker 12: If the risk buffers of the banks are getting a
34:40
Speaker 12: bit tight, APRA may ask them to hold more capital,
34:42
Speaker 12: which means that we might get out of cycle interest
34:45
Speaker 12: rate rises because the banks are being forced to hold
34:49
Speaker 12: more capital. So, yeah, I'm confused by the government's objective.
34:54
Speaker 12: You know, on one hand, they're celebrating the decline in
34:57
Speaker 12: property prices, but then they're saying, don't blame us for it.
34:59
Speaker 11: Yeah.
35:01
Speaker 2: Except that that was what they wanted to do in
35:03
Speaker 2: the first place, presumably.
35:04
Speaker 1: Correct.
35:05
Speaker 11: I mean.
35:05
Speaker 1: No, no, they'll go slower.
35:06
Speaker 2: They just won't go down. Well, we've seen the result
35:09
Speaker 2: of that. Dimitri Berstein, good to see you as always.
35:11
Speaker 2: After the break, shocking vision inside that flight bound for
35:14
Speaker 2: Tel Aviv. I'll speak to a former RDF intelligence officer
35:17
Speaker 2: for his take on what some said could have been
35:20
Speaker 2: Israel's 9-11.
35:21
Speaker 1: Don't go away.
35:25
Speaker 2: Now, the attempted hijacking of that fly-you-by plane yesterday, what
35:28
Speaker 2: an extraordinary turn of events, and a real credit to
35:32
Speaker 2: the passengers, I have to say. So, the plane plummeted
35:35
Speaker 2: about 5,000 metres in less than a minute.
35:38
Speaker 1: Here was that terrifying moment.
35:43
Speaker 3: Shake it, shake it, don't go.
35:47
Speaker 13: OK, off.
35:49
Speaker 2: It's believed the flight's co-pilot stabbed the pilot and then
35:53
Speaker 2: attempted to take control and crash the aircraft. But brave passengers,
35:57
Speaker 2: they rushed to the cabin to assist, and then two
36:00
Speaker 2: trained pilots who happened to be on board diverted the
36:02
Speaker 2: plane to a safe emergency landing at Tabuk Airport in
36:06
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia. And graphic video has emerged from on board,
36:10
Speaker 2: appearing to show two men in white uniforms, bloodied and
36:14
Speaker 2: on the floor. Now, the motives of the co-pilot are
36:16
Speaker 2: still unknown. But this is what Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
36:20
Speaker 2: Netanyahu had to say on CNN earlier this morning.
36:24
Speaker 15: What we know is in Omani National, we do know
36:29
Speaker 15: that the plane was approaching Israel itself and that there
36:34
Speaker 15: were shouts and screams from the cockpit.
36:38
Speaker 16: You warned yesterday that enemies were going to attack Israel
36:41
Speaker 16: ahead of the elections. Did you have any warning or
36:44
Speaker 16: intelligence about an attack such as this one?
36:48
Speaker 3: No, not specifically.
36:49
Speaker 15: This is being interrogated right now. The pilot, the attacking pilot,
36:54
Speaker 15: is now being interrogated in Saudi Arabia. I assume very
36:58
Speaker 15: soon he'll be taken to the United Arab Emirates. I
37:00
Speaker 15: spoke to the president of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh
37:04
Speaker 15: Mohammed bin Zayed, and he agreed that Israel would join
37:07
Speaker 15: the interrogation. So we'll find out very soon if Iran
37:10
Speaker 15: had anything to do with it.
37:12
Speaker 2: Joining me now is former RDF intelligence officer, now co-editor-in-chief
37:15
Speaker 2: of Middle East 24, Dan Pfefferman.
37:17
Speaker 1: Dan, good to see you.
37:19
Speaker 2: Obviously, we'll have to see what comes of the interrogations
37:22
Speaker 2: to find out what really was going on here.
37:25
Speaker 1: But what are your initial thoughts?
37:28
Speaker 16: My initial thoughts is this is going to be an
37:31
Speaker 16: absolute nightmare for Israeli travellers, even more than it already
37:36
Speaker 16: is in the world. This is going to be a
37:37
Speaker 16: nightmare for international travellers travel and security, but it's a miracle.
37:41
Speaker 16: It's an absolute miracle that 20, what are we, 25
37:46
Speaker 16: years and a month after 9-11, you know, 40 years
37:50
Speaker 16: or is it 50 years after the Entebbe hijacking and
37:53
Speaker 16: just a week ahead of the October 7th anniversary, we
37:56
Speaker 16: almost had another tragedy in which over 170 mostly Israeli
38:03
Speaker 16: Jews could have been the victims of this very potential
38:07
Speaker 16: terror attack.
38:08
Speaker 3: We're not quite sure yet. And it was.
38:12
Speaker 16: Miracle after miracle, plus the heroism of the pilot and
38:15
Speaker 16: of the passengers on board who understood something dramatic was
38:20
Speaker 16: happening and jumped up and took action.
38:22
Speaker 3: And as it turned out to be the correct.
38:24
Speaker 16: Action and just everything, you know, after the initial incident
38:27
Speaker 16: that could have gone wrong, didn't.
38:30
Speaker 3: And thankfully everything came out okay.
38:32
Speaker 2: The suggestion that it could have been basically, Israel's 9-11.
38:37
Speaker 2: To your knowledge, what is the basis of that allegation?
38:42
Speaker 16: Well, you know, you're talking about, you know the old saying, right,
38:46
Speaker 16: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to
38:50
Speaker 16: get you. Israelis, unfortunately, and Jews around the world have
38:53
Speaker 16: always been the first and not the last victims of
38:57
Speaker 16: many kinds of creative kinds of terrorism, just like 9-11
39:00
Speaker 16: was was not aimed at Israel or Jews.
39:03
Speaker 3: It was aimed at the United States, but it was
39:04
Speaker 3: a very creative kind of terrorism.
39:07
Speaker 16: Many of the early plane hijackings and the suicide bombings
39:10
Speaker 16: were initially done against Israel.
39:14
Speaker 3: And so, you know, we're always vigilant.
39:16
Speaker 16: Israeli airline security, Israeli border security is always multiple levels
39:21
Speaker 16: of any other country, just because there are more threats
39:24
Speaker 16: aimed at Israel and Israelis. And this very well could
39:27
Speaker 16: be that case. And if this is not the use
39:31
Speaker 16: of a passenger, as happened in 9-11, trained passengers, but
39:37
Speaker 16: of one of the flight crew, then this is a
39:40
Speaker 16: major innovative, dangerously.
39:43
Speaker 3: Innovative innovation in the world of terrorism, if it is
39:46
Speaker 3: indeed terrorism.
39:48
Speaker 2: The number of things, as you mentioned, that sort of
39:50
Speaker 2: went right in this circumstance are extraordinary because it would
39:54
Speaker 2: have been so easy for it to go wrong. And
39:57
Speaker 2: the intervention of those passengers, presumably many of them being
40:02
Speaker 2: Israeli Jews, would have served in the IDF. How much
40:06
Speaker 2: of that do you think played into their instinct to
40:09
Speaker 2: get down there and do something and react in the
40:11
Speaker 2: way that they did?
40:13
Speaker 16: Well, you know, first of all, a lot of Israeli
40:15
Speaker 16: Jews are indeed IDF reservists, but that doesn't mean they're
40:18
Speaker 16: combat reservists. That said, here in Israel, people unfortunately have
40:23
Speaker 16: had to live, many people, their entire lives with the
40:29
Speaker 16: threats of terrorism, with the threats of missiles.
40:31
Speaker 3: And so the resolve, the ability to act.
40:34
Speaker 16: Cool under pressure, the kind of understanding that something is
40:39
Speaker 16: happening and that people need to take matters into their
40:42
Speaker 16: own hands is more deeply ingrained, unfortunately, into the Israeli
40:46
Speaker 16: mindset because of the reality of what it means to
40:48
Speaker 16: live here. Many terrorist attacks that happen inside of Israel
40:52
Speaker 16: are thwarted by armed bystanders who are unfortunately, again, used
40:57
Speaker 16: to having to react in such dangerous situations. And so thankfully,
41:01
Speaker 16: you know, again, everything that could have gone right after
41:04
Speaker 16: the incident did go right. But it's also credit to
41:08
Speaker 16: these passengers who jumped up stormed the cockpit. One person
41:13
Speaker 16: gave a life-saving treatment to the injured pilot, who himself
41:17
Speaker 16: was heroic. Another person used his knowledge of watching a
41:20
Speaker 16: reality TV show about airplane crashes to stabilize the plane
41:24
Speaker 16: until the alternative crew could jump in and take over.
41:26
Speaker 16: And from what I'm understanding, a number of passengers also
41:29
Speaker 16: accompanied the rest of the crew and shadowed them to
41:32
Speaker 16: make sure there weren't any other potentially dangerous and hostile
41:37
Speaker 16: crew members on board.
41:38
Speaker 2: What's the reaction been like amongst ordinary Israelis? Is there
41:42
Speaker 2: a feeling that perhaps this is an escalation of things?
41:47
Speaker 3: You know, again, the first sense here was this is
41:50
Speaker 3: a miracle.
41:51
Speaker 16: This is a miracle that everything somehow came out OK.
41:56
Speaker 16: I mean, we're talking both from a security perspective, but
41:58
Speaker 16: also a plane dropping 17,000, 18,000 feet, 5,000 metres, as
42:02
Speaker 16: you said, in under a minute is incredibly dangerous to
42:04
Speaker 16: the plane. And so, again, the miracle. And it's a
42:08
Speaker 16: Jewish holiday. It's the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. This is
42:10
Speaker 16: a biblical holiday. And so the general feeling in Israel
42:14
Speaker 16: is a miracle happened on one of our major holidays.
42:17
Speaker 16: The Israeli 9-11 was averted. But now the follow-up is,
42:21
Speaker 16: you know, are people going to travel? Are people going
42:22
Speaker 16: to travel on airlines that are not El Al, the
42:25
Speaker 16: Israeli national airline? Can other pilots be trusted? You know,
42:30
Speaker 16: for Israelis to begin traveling en masse, on airlines from
42:35
Speaker 16: the Arab world is a big deal. Israelis for generations
42:39
Speaker 16: have been traumatized by the fear and the threat of
42:43
Speaker 16: terrorism against them. And so for the Abraham Accords to
42:47
Speaker 16: go into this place where Israelis regularly travel on UAE
42:52
Speaker 16: brand airlines is a big step. And I hope this
42:56
Speaker 16: doesn't harm that. I hope this doesn't harm even more
42:59
Speaker 16: Israelis who are already cautious of going to many places
43:01
Speaker 16: in the world because of all of the major, major
43:04
Speaker 16: security incidents and just mobs harassing or attacking Israelis. And
43:09
Speaker 16: now there's, you know, after you get through airline security,
43:12
Speaker 16: which is supposed to be a safe place, now there's
43:14
Speaker 16: another level of concern that Israeli travellers will have to
43:19
Speaker 16: be worried about.
43:20
Speaker 1: Indeed. Dan, thank you for joining me tonight.
43:22
Speaker 2: Well, a coalition-run state says it wouldn't allow nuclear energy
43:25
Speaker 2: even if the.
43:26
Speaker 1: Federal government wanted to. More on that after the break.
43:32
Speaker 2: The Chrisafooli LNP government in Queensland has broken ranks with
43:36
Speaker 2: its federal counterparts. Treasurer David Janicki is flat out rejecting
43:40
Speaker 2: nuclear energy.
43:43
Speaker 17: Our energy roadmap dealt with what is in front of us.
43:46
Speaker 17: Let's be honest, unless there's bipartisan support out of Canberra,
43:49
Speaker 17: no-one's going to come and invest. And so I've been
43:52
Speaker 17: really clear, my focus is entirely on what lies in
43:56
Speaker 17: front of me and that's where the energy roadmap is
44:00
Speaker 17: and that's where my focus will.
44:01
Speaker 1: Continue to be.
44:03
Speaker 2: Joining me now to discuss this is Affordable Energy Australia
44:06
Speaker 2: spokeswoman Zoe Hilton. Zoe, I get what he's saying, you know,
44:11
Speaker 2: we don't have a framework to actually make nuclear happen
44:13
Speaker 2: in this country at the moment, so it's not my
44:15
Speaker 2: current interest, whatever. But he's basically saying even if there
44:18
Speaker 2: were a way to do it, I'm not interested. I
44:21
Speaker 2: don't understand why a coalition government, an LNP government, would
44:25
Speaker 2: dismiss it out of hand like that.
44:27
Speaker 18: Yeah, I mean, I understand his focus on, oh, short-term,
44:31
Speaker 18: we need to get affordability in the system and all
44:33
Speaker 18: of that. I can understand that, and it's good he's
44:35
Speaker 18: trying to have an affordable energy system, but I do
44:37
Speaker 18: think it seems ideological. And if you're wanting to avoid
44:41
Speaker 18: being seen as ideological about energy sources, why are you
44:45
Speaker 18: not removing the ban? I just think it doesn't make sense.
44:47
Speaker 18: Have all the options on the table... And, yes, if
44:50
Speaker 18: there's a federal ban, it won't be possible, but I
44:52
Speaker 18: still think the states are responsible for energy under the Constitution,
44:55
Speaker 18: so they should be leading the way on this. They
44:57
Speaker 18: shouldn't be going, oh, the federal government has said something,
45:00
Speaker 18: so we're not going to do anything. I think they
45:01
Speaker 18: should lift the bans and then hopefully that will put
45:04
Speaker 18: pressure on the feds to actually be not ideological about
45:07
Speaker 18: energy sources.
45:08
Speaker 2: Well, indeed, and it seems the simplest thing to do
45:11
Speaker 2: because you lift the ban, well, if no-one wants to invest...
45:15
Speaker 2: there is no nuclear energy, right? The market gets to decide.
45:19
Speaker 2: I don't know what the issue is with that. And
45:21
Speaker 2: all of this is in the context of these AI
45:23
Speaker 2: data centres that are being built. And you look to
45:25
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, you know, there is major
45:28
Speaker 2: investment in nuclear energy to power data centres.
45:32
Speaker 1: And meanwhile here, we've got the federal government saying, oh,
45:34
Speaker 1: we'll do it with renewables.
45:36
Speaker 18: Yes, that is particularly crazy when you consider that data
45:40
Speaker 18: centres have to be on 24-7. That is literally the
45:42
Speaker 18: entire point of data centres is they are providing services
45:45
Speaker 18: to people that really don't want them to go down.
45:48
Speaker 18: I've been to a data centre. They have full diesel backup.
45:51
Speaker 18: They take their 24-7 availability very seriously. And as we
45:54
Speaker 18: all know, wind and solar are just not on 24-7.
45:57
Speaker 1: And so.
45:58
Speaker 18: We're going to have to have baseload in the system
46:01
Speaker 18: to support not only data centres, but any other industries
46:04
Speaker 18: that we want to keep in this country. And so, yeah,
46:06
Speaker 18: I think we should have all options on the table
46:07
Speaker 18: and we should let investors decide on the most affordable energy. And, yeah,
46:11
Speaker 18: for data centres, get them to bring their own energy,
46:13
Speaker 18: but let them bring the most affordable energy to the grid.
46:16
Speaker 2: Yep, seems the sensible thing to do. While we're talking
46:19
Speaker 2: about energy and these issues of need zero, Rio Tinto's
46:22
Speaker 2: Tasmanian aluminium smelter has been given $ 200 million, Lifeline. basically
46:28
Speaker 2: from the federal and state government so that it can
46:30
Speaker 2: stay open until 2031. Angus Taylor has basically said this
46:35
Speaker 2: shows the problem with net zero.
46:36
Speaker 1: Take a look.
46:38
Speaker 19: The best way to keep our smelters strong is to
46:40
Speaker 19: scrap net zero because the reality is electricity prices are
46:45
Speaker 19: the main input into aluminium smelting and they are too
46:50
Speaker 19: high under this Labor government. That's why the government's having
46:52
Speaker 19: to bail out smelters. Now, They're putting a Band-Aid on
46:55
Speaker 19: a bullet wound. They should be dealing with the bullet wound,
46:57
Speaker 19: which is to scrap net zero today, get rid of it.
47:03
Speaker 2: And eminently sensible. But, you know, I think it kind
47:05
Speaker 2: of proves the point, doesn't it? Every time the federal
47:07
Speaker 2: government has to intervene on these things, they are saying, well, actually,
47:10
Speaker 2: we do need this stuff.
47:12
Speaker 11: Exactly.
47:12
Speaker 18: It doesn't make sense to make electricity expensive by subsidising
47:17
Speaker 18: renewables with taxpayer money and with consumers having to pay
47:20
Speaker 18: subsidies and then simultaneously having to bail out smelters because
47:24
Speaker 18: you've made electricity too expensive with policies that are not
47:28
Speaker 18: making electricity affordable.
47:29
Speaker 1: So you pay twice over, basically. Exactly. It is a
47:32
Speaker 1: double tax.
47:33
Speaker 18: And we're only going to see more smelters and other
47:35
Speaker 18: electricity-intensive industries shutting down and needing bailouts in the future
47:39
Speaker 18: if we don't fix the problems with energy policy. We've
47:42
Speaker 18: already seen Tomago and Boyne smelters be given Billions of
47:46
Speaker 18: dollars in bailouts. And yeah, I'm not going to say
47:48
Speaker 18: whether individual bailouts are the right thing or the wrong thing,
47:51
Speaker 18: because we need to have that capacity in our country
47:54
Speaker 18: for national security and everything.
47:55
Speaker 1: But it just fixed.
47:57
Speaker 18: The root cause of the problem first, because then, yeah,
48:00
Speaker 18: we're just going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot
48:03
Speaker 18: if we keep going down this path.
48:04
Speaker 2: Well, indeed, and the other thing quickly that's been given
48:06
Speaker 2: a lifeline are two of the major coal mines in
48:08
Speaker 2: the Hunter Valley.
48:09
Speaker 1: I mean, again, just another example, isn't.
48:11
Speaker 2: It, of the fact that we need coal, we need
48:14
Speaker 2: affordable energy in this country, and when push comes to shove,
48:17
Speaker 2: the governments have to recognise that.
48:19
Speaker 1: Exactly.
48:19
Speaker 18: I mean, we've seen with the New South Wales government
48:22
Speaker 18: with Araring, they were very keen to make sure Araring
48:25
Speaker 18: stayed on because it was providing an enormous amount of
48:28
Speaker 18: cheap power to the grid. And they knew that there
48:30
Speaker 18: would be blackouts if they didn't make a deal with
48:33
Speaker 18: Origin to extend it. And so, yeah, of course, we're
48:35
Speaker 18: seeing the same thing with coal mining because it is
48:37
Speaker 18: providing so much economic benefit to not only the Hunter Valley,
48:42
Speaker 18: and regional Australia, but to the broader community.
48:46
Speaker 1: And it just.
48:46
Speaker 18: Governments, they know that they cannot afford to be missing
48:50
Speaker 18: out on those benefits.
48:52
Speaker 2: Indeed. Zoe Hilton, good to see you, and good to
48:54
Speaker 2: see you as well. That's all I have time for tonight.
48:56
Speaker 2: I'll see you tomorrow at 5pm for The Bond Report.
48:58
Speaker 1: My word is my bond. Here's Paul in the Man Cave.