Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 98: A Conversation About "Return of the Jedi" in Honor of its 40th Anniversary

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Episode 98: A Conversation About "Return of the Jedi" in Honor of its 40th Anniversary · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

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  Hello, there. It's time for most things
• 0:04
  Kenobi. Hi everyone, welcome to another
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  episode of most things Kenobi. A podcast about Obi-Wan Kenobi
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  and all things Star Wars. I'm your host Lauren, and I'm
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  your host Leanne, and this week we are diving into Richard of
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  the Jedi. Yes, because it's the 40th
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  anniversary, maybe not on the exact date.
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  This is issued this episode but damn close.
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  It's the big thing at Celebration.
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  This year. One of the many big things.
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  Honestly, but it's the 40th year.
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  I can't believe Return of the Jedi came out, 40 years ago.
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  That is insane to me. Yes, it is a 1983 baby just like
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  me. Oh my God.
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  And so, it's only a few months older than me.
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  I was going to say, I'm a most 40.
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  So I guess it kind of makes sense.
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  I'm not just a job. It's a good age.
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  They say it is you step into your power and your 40s.
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  So, Luke did tell ya. If read my mind that I, of
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  course yes. Did I nice?
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  Well he does this great that Return of the Jedi used to be my
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  favorite Star Wars movie hands down.
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  When I was younger I watched it over and over and over.
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  Yeah it's I don't know. I know Empire Strikes Back is my
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  favorite but I feel like it's a tie between a New Hope and
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  Return of the Jedi for Like my favorite, my second favorite,
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  and I know that's unfair and it doesn't count but like the
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  kitchen s of A New Hope almost compared with the Finesse and
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  kind of silliness with the Ewoks and then my God, yes, you know,
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  the seriousness with Vader and everything.
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  It's like, I don't know. It's hard to.
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  It's hard to weigh the two. We're introduced to the
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  characters and then worry, say goodbye to them or so we
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  thought. Yeah, it's true.
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  It's I was just going to say that that it's interesting to
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  see where we start and where we end, you know.
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  Yeah. It's a hell of a journey that
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  you go on especially when they made Star Wars, the original
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  movie. They weren't sure they were
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  going to get to make any of the other one, so that was kind of
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  like it had to stand on its own if they never gave them the
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  contract for the following movies.
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  So and I think it does a New Hope stands on its own.
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  But when you add the other movies in, oh my God, Return of
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  the Jedi has Just like, I really feel like it's a way more for
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  kids in some ways. A definite aspect to it, where
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  they had fun with it. They were able to introduce some
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  less heavy items. I'll phrase it as that because I
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  mean Empire Strikes Back is pretty damn heavy for most of
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  it. It is it's dark.
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  I think that's why it's my favorite because it's it's much
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  more of a well, it's psychological.
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  But it's also like the characters are actually In
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  physical danger like even hon you know with the carbonyl.
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  Sure. Yeah.
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  So well I mean ho one of my favorite seasons of returned to
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  the Jedi is Luke's entrance into Jabba's Palace me too, so good.
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  It's just like, oh he's coming to his own and he's a true Jedi
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  or is he? And he's just so good with the
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  little wave of his fingers. Yes, he gets to use his power
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  finally know. It's so good.
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  He's so calm and collected. Yeah, and yet he's still a bit
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  of that boy that we met in A New Hope because he's, you know, he
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  thinks well, you see him when he comes on screen, he's, he's much
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  more advanced than we last saw him.
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  He's in all black, he's got, you know, he's just looks different
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  talks different. He's become someone and yet
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  there's still a little bit of a hint of like, uninsured - mmm.
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  At the word I'm looking for. He's just, he isn't quite sure
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  because his father plants doubt in him.
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  Anyway, right, I think a doubt that's been there all along.
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  Really? Yeah.
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  And there's that conversation, he has with Obi-Wan where he
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  said, like, why didn't you tell me the truth?
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  Why were you lying over and that alone?
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  It's hard to be so sure when you know people have been lying to
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  you whether or not you want to say.
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  It's from a certain point of view, it's still.
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  Yeah, feels like you were being misled.
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  That's going to play. Aunt doubt.
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  Also, you know, I just love this movie.
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  It's so ridiculous. This, this movie has everything.
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  It has three small Forest Bears. It has dying creatures named
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  Yoda. It has no, or does it because it
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  depends on which version you want.
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  I, I always forget that Disney did that like kept it in?
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  And I watch it on Disney Plus at I just I get upset every time
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  you have to mute it, you just have to do it.
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  It really takes you out of that moment, which is it really does
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  Horton moment. That's what I wish.
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  I had a way to watch my VHS tapes because they are.
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  I know, they're the addition I love.
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  Yes, same where? Nothing is touched.
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  Yeah. And there's even simple, simple
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  dialogue that got changed for the worse.
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  I think at the beginning and Jabba's Palace, Is Han, you
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  know, he's like, hanging over the side of the.
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  What are those? The transport, and they're
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  trying to save Lando and Lando's like, wait, I thought you were
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  blind, right? And they changed it to him
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  trying to like Rush. It's okay.
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  I can see a lot better now. It's it originally was, it's
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  okay, trust me? Yeah, I remember that.
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  Yes, it's just so much better. Yes, it's so much more Star Wars
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  e, you know? Yeah.
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  Well that whole scene. Okay, we get Hut Slayer,
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  Princess Leia. Yeah, like my God and if
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  anyone's ever read the novel bloodline, they actually refer
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  to her in the book as Huts layer and this is long after this
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  takes place and it's really cool to see that you know to have
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  this badass Senator General and Huts layer.
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  She has to do it in a bikini and she did it.
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  And I respect the hell out of carry for even having to deal
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  with that. See what that thing on and
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  pranced around. I know, I know, I get it, she
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  looked great. She was, they sent her to have
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  fat camp, which I just, they did cannot wrap my brain around.
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  They did. That is such a sign of the
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  times. Yeah.
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  And poor carry is a small person.
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  Anyway, it's not like seriously, she's petite.
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  She had like those little girlish, chubby cheeks.
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  I don't even want to say chubby. She had like soft cheeks in A
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  New Hope because she was young, she was like what?
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  19. Yeah.
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  Maybe a teenager, for sure. Yeah, for sure.
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  And and then, you know, they're all kind of getting older quote
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  on quote but like it's not like that woman was ever not going to
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  look good in a bikini. Yeah.
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  That'll or otherwise. But one of my favorite photos is
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  of her and Mark Hamill with that flower kimono top that with a
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  Teahouse in the desert. I fucking love that shit.
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  Oh my God, some of the behind-the-scenes photos of them
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  together is just so good. There's even one.
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  I've seen like a gift set of them laying on Java basically in
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  between Tate. Yeah, it's a nice crop and
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  they're making each other laugh. Like so hard that they have must
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  have tears in their eyes. It's such a great set of images
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  to see. I just have the original trilogy
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  Trio. They're my favorite.
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  I know there's so good together and they really I like even with
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  Lando, Lando has to be in there because he comes through in the
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  end, what a hero, what a, what a Heroes Saga, you know, is so
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  great. And yeah, there's silly parts
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  and I just I just take it all for what it is.
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  Yes, I mean, I really do think it was meant a little bit more
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  for kids with the Jabba's Palace and the Ewoks.
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  It seems, the more kid friendly but the stuff that's going on
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  with Luke is definitely much darker, which Great.
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  That was so good. It's our favorite quote, you and
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  eyes. Favorite quote comes from this
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  movie. When he flings that lightsaber
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  and says, never never turn to the dark side, it's my alarm.
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  It is your alarm. If I hear that go off whenever
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  it celebration, I'm just going to wake up laughing because we
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  haven't gone to Celebration. Yes, you have to set an alarm.
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  It's nice to have it. Be Luke Skywalker's voice.
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  I have no problems with what lie.
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  Yeah, waking up to Mark, Hamill's dulcet, tones, dulcet
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  tones, he would appreciate that. I mean, obvi obviously.
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  Luke is the highlight of this movie in my opinion.
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  Yeah, I think so too. Second.
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  Only to fader in my opinion. Yeah, it feels kind of like Leia
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  in particular, kind of got pushed a little, I guess she's
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  important with the Ewoks, but still like that doing anything
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  necessarily she found them. Well, she she very much reminds
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  me of pad me because Padme had that gentleness and that
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  kindness that she does show towards the Ewoks.
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  Mmm, you know, she tries to befriend them and understand
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  them and not Across the scary. They're a little jumpy, you know
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  it will was and there's some of their Spears and you know
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  they're skittish and so cute but it's cute.
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  How she takes her helmet off? She tries to offer food, doesn't
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  she offer like a mule? Yeah I love like what the
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  skateboard. Oh yeah I see a lot of padmé in
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  that. Yeah it's true.
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  It's she's very sweet. It's a wicked.
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  I think his name is wicked, right?
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  Oh yeah. The main one.
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  Yes, that work Davies. Please and yes honestly, I love
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  that whole sequence in the forest because for like many
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  reasons, Leia is so sweet. You get to see a different side
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  of her because she's usually yeah.
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  Hard-ass. Right?
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  Like right? Yeah, even people.
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  It's like you've mentioned before she softened by the end,
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  she's in a dress and her hair is down for the first time ever.
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  And she's finally like softened, but I love like the sequence
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  with the Speeders and Luke. Yeah defeating one on foot with
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  his lightsaber. That was so yes, yes.
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  And of course the Poncho's yes. The monsters are back and and
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  better than ever in Return of the Jedi, there's gotta be a
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  featured Poncho and every episode.
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  Oh yes, I just love when Han and Luke.
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  Go back into the forest, to try to find Leia and they get caught
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  by the Ewoks and Rihanna gets so mad.
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  Mad with threepio and all of the I love how angry he.
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  So I think that was the real Harrison Ford in that scene.
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  You know, I think it's out to a little bit of real Harrison Ford
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  slipped in there. Yeah, he was annoyed then as Han
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  Solo as he is now as Harrison, Ford towards Star Wars.
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  That's so true. Oh my God.
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  Which I can appreciate. Well, he didn't even want to
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  come back for Return of the Jedi, so I understand, To, I
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  love everything they do. I love everything they do
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  together, I love him and in Leia and you know, since the book
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  came out, the princess and the scoundrel, she ends up getting
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  married there. Yeah.
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  Is that the new one or is that is that those are gown, just
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  inspired by and know I think that sure they get married
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  there. Yes.
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  Which isn't there. An older book to there?
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  Is there is yeah, it's like the what is it called, like the
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  court? Ship of Princess.
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  Yeah, there's something like that.
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  The one? Yeah.
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  Because I can see the cover. It's an old like a kind of like
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  an old romance where she's like. Yes dip to, you know, and
• 12:47
  contact some Fabio and you'll add their Fabio.
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  Yeah. And I'm like, oh God, I think I
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  think my favorite parts of this whole movie are the interaction
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  interactions between number one. You can layer and then Luke and
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  Vader because yeah, nothing tops that Final Duel.
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  I love basically. From that moment where he has
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  the conversation with Leah in the Ewok.
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  Village lit By Starlight. Yes.
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  With the deaths are looming. Yeah, no, no pressure.
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  Anything with Luke after that is just like I almost will always
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  skip the other stuff in between because his story is, so it's so
• 13:37
  So fun after that because it's not only is it like a duel but
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  it's also psychological and I just love, I love that scene
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  with him and Leah where he's asking her if she remembers her
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  mother I know I know it's one of my favorite moments between them
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  because they get to just talk to each other, you know and eat.
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  There's not a lot of scenes like that in the original Star Wars
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  movies. There's a lot of holding your
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  pain personally but it's the first time.
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  Lucas like tell me about your mother.
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  Like what do you remember? I just love that moment and it's
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  lit. They both look so beautiful.
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  They really do. They really do and huh?
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  I can't help but think of Padme Anakin.
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  Hmm, you know, and do you think that Leia, you know, of course,
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  this came first and then the prequels happened, right?
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  Mmm. So, do you think that she had
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  like an imprint of padmé and that's how she remembers her?
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  Or do you think that That like bail, I don't know through
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  talking with bail. She kind of remembered her
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  mother in a sense, or has, you know how when you talk about
• 14:45
  someone, then you form, like a memory that even though you
• 14:47
  don't have a memory of that /? I don't eat.
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  I don't even know if I am saying makes sense.
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  But yeah, no, I get what you're saying.
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  You can form an opinion of someone even if you don't have a
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  clear memory. Well, she says that even in the
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  Kenobi show, which is talking to Obi-Wan about.
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  Yeah, she says she tries to imagine what he'd be like and
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  Cut that scene, where Obi-Wan tells her how she's like oh this
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  is like one of the most beautiful things I've ever.
• 15:13
  I literally instantly started sobbing as soon as Leia's theme
• 15:16
  started playing, I was lost. I have so many Goosebumps right
• 15:22
  now. I completely shame on me.
• 15:24
  I completely forgot about the Kenobi series, talking about
• 15:28
  this. I was thinking in movies, right?
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  But not. Yeah, for sure.
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  But like do you think now that we have the Kenobi series that
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  she have been thinking of that conversation with Ben, will be
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  Lon when she was talking to Luke about how she remembered her
• 15:44
  mother. Maybe the fact is 0, b. 1 is the
• 15:48
  first one who held both those children.
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  Yes, so yeah. I don't know.
• 15:55
  This is gonna like be a bit of a side tangent.
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  I guess. Let's have it.
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  I've heard I just heard this argument recently, about during
• 16:03
  Revenge of the Sith, when Obi-Wan and Anakin are dueling
• 16:06
  and Do the force push at each other?
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  Oh yeah. They're saying Anakin is way
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  stronger than 0, b, 1 and so like they really believe that
• 16:14
  open was trying to do it first in the Anakin just like matched
• 16:18
  him and pushed him away and I don't think if you watch it
• 16:20
  closely, that's that what happens?
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  And I do think that Obi-Wan is strong enough in the forced to
• 16:26
  kick Anakin's ask twice. So yes to argue that Anakin is
• 16:30
  so much stronger than 0 b 1 in the force, I don't think that's
• 16:33
  true. I think he's actually incredibly
• 16:35
  one of the August people we've ever seen in Star Wars with the
• 16:39
  force. And so when the children are
• 16:42
  born and if they're forced sensitive children, is it not
• 16:46
  possible that Obi-Wan could imprint on that?
• 16:49
  Like, not necessarily himself, but like feelings.
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  And what he felt about their parents on to the children and
• 16:55
  somehow, I think for sure. I think there's a lot of
• 16:59
  imprinting that went on. I honestly do there.
• 17:02
  Had to have been not even a purpose.
• 17:04
  Just he was so emotional. Yeah.
• 17:07
  Yeah, I don't know. I mean Anakin he already thought
• 17:09
  Anakin was dead at that point and now padme's giving birth and
• 17:13
  dying at the same time, I mean it's a lot to happen to a person
• 17:17
  in a short amount of time, you know, he was standing there
• 17:20
  thinking of his best friend and in the loss, not even just
• 17:24
  corporeal, but the loss of a friend and now the irony of
• 17:29
  Obi-Wan standing there with his kids in his hand, you know,
• 17:31
  holding them. Yeah.
• 17:34
  How that would have affected anyone.
• 17:36
  It's just so So sad. It's crazy.
• 17:39
  Well, I love how that ties back into this particular scene
• 17:42
  because otherwise Leia would never have memories of.
• 17:46
  I know some people have said, isn't there a story somewhere a
• 17:49
  novel or a graphic novel where Leia goes to Naboo or something
• 17:53
  and sees like a stained glass window or something with her
• 17:58
  mother and she feels the cold. Yes, she feels something and has
• 18:02
  like a force Vision or something like that maybe.
• 18:05
  And I mean that B, I'm a huge fan of that because we know Leia
• 18:11
  was training to be a Jedi. Leia has the force, she's just
• 18:14
  never liked learned it all it. Yeah, well, she chose not to
• 18:19
  because of the fear that she would turn into her dad, which I
• 18:21
  mean, fair fair enough. Yeah, that's a, that's a
• 18:25
  legitimate fear. Yeah.
• 18:27
  It's a thing. And, and Leia had a bit of a
• 18:30
  temper. So I could see her being like,
• 18:33
  well, I don't want it to go anywhere, so I'll just shut.
• 18:37
  It down, I get it. Yeah, but I know there's the
• 18:40
  whole thing of. Wow Come Vader didn't sense.
• 18:44
  Leia was his daughter in a new hope.
• 18:48
  I don't really know what I think about that.
• 18:49
  Do you have a thought? I've never really come full
• 18:53
  circle on any kind of theory or anything.
• 18:55
  I know what people say about this the scene, I think he
• 18:58
  thought they were. He thought Padme was dead and
• 19:02
  that the children were dead is a result, so I don't think he ever
• 19:07
  Considered that he had family out there in the galaxy.
• 19:12
  It's kind of like, if you don't open the door, then you don't
• 19:15
  have any inkling what's on the other side.
• 19:17
  But once Loom and the knowledge that Luke existed opened it,
• 19:20
  then he was receptive to Luke out there.
• 19:24
  Yeah, and I think when Vader says, Ah, Ah, sister, you know,
• 19:29
  maybe put it together then, I don't know.
• 19:31
  Yeah, she would have known that. That was his daughter.
• 19:34
  I think he would have been proud.
• 19:36
  I wonder if He knew when he said that.
• 19:38
  He could sense a sister. Did he know?
• 19:40
  It was Leia then? Because, well, that's what I
• 19:42
  mean, since the door was open, maybe he could search back
• 19:45
  through. Yeah.
• 19:46
  And find maybe a Flicker and then he probably went, oh shit.
• 19:49
  I tortured her. Fuck.
• 19:51
  That's at Mays daughter. I tortured.
• 19:55
  God damn it. Yeah, II.
• 19:57
  He was don't know. He was hell-bent on all kinds of
• 20:01
  things. So maybe he was just too
• 20:02
  distracted. But I think Anakin would have
• 20:05
  been proud is what I'm trying to say.
• 20:07
  I think that that moment in particular, when he feels like
• 20:12
  it's all tied together, right? Like ob1 when Luke realizes Leia
• 20:16
  is his sister 0. B 1 says your feelings, do you
• 20:19
  credit but you need to bury those feelings because they
• 20:23
  could be used to serve the emperor and that's exactly what
• 20:26
  he was warning him against at the end of the movie where Vader
• 20:30
  says a sister. It's the thing that pushed Luke
• 20:33
  over the edge of like ah Yes, you do.
• 20:37
  You now to right to protect Leia?
• 20:40
  He was willing to go too far. I love Luke God.
• 20:45
  That's a little bit of Anakin in them though.
• 20:47
  Yeah, I think about it. Yeah, he played the same card on
• 20:52
  Luke. That was played on him less
• 20:54
  nefarious. But same same, you know, and
• 20:58
  goal. Yeah, manipulate and Luke was
• 21:03
  just lucky that he had just a moment where Senses came back to
• 21:08
  him, you know? And it was all because when he
• 21:11
  cuts Vader's arm off, he looks down and he's like, oh, I'm
• 21:16
  repeating history. Yes, and it's great because if
• 21:21
  you if you follow any meditation any mindfulness, the first thing
• 21:25
  is to break to stop the train of thought to break the rapid
• 21:30
  breathing, to stop the train of thoughts.
• 21:32
  You know, the runaway snowball? Yes.
• 21:35
  Yeah. And that is the hardest.
• 21:37
  Part. And I can tell you, as an
• 21:38
  anxious person who battles with this to stop recognize, what's
• 21:44
  happening? Take that breath and then turn
• 21:46
  away from it. So to speak is tremendously
• 21:49
  difficult and he and Luke did it in like one of the most intense,
• 21:55
  hopeless locations, mmm, setups. The fucking Emperor's right
• 22:01
  there. Yeah.
• 22:03
  And then that lends to what you said that you mentioned that.
• 22:07
  I went in knowing or was okay with the idea that if I die, I'm
• 22:12
  okay, if I go into this and I die, so be it.
• 22:17
  Yeah, I love that about him. This whole like no Final Duel
• 22:22
  deal Jedi. Yeah, it's a real Jedi.
• 22:25
  And he he goes knowing either, I'm gonna die trying or I'm
• 22:30
  gonna save my father like it's one of the two and so the
• 22:33
  emperor takes it as arrogance, but really.
• 22:36
  Yeah, He's just not afraid. He's accepted his fate.
• 22:40
  Oh and that get some good. Thank you Palpatine.
• 22:47
  I love it. I love it.
• 22:48
  I love it, it's so good. And the lighting.
• 22:51
  Oh my God. Lee Ann listen over everything
• 22:53
  about it. Especially in that moment where
• 22:56
  Luke has Vader down on the floor and he's like going at him over
• 23:00
  and over, he looks insane. It's really good.
• 23:05
  He's filmed from below so he said a high angle so he looks
• 23:08
  really powerful and he's like covered in sweat and he's like
• 23:11
  with like he's insane like his lost his control which he And
• 23:16
  what you do it, okay. Is anyone seen office space
• 23:18
  where they beat the living shit out of the fax machine?
• 23:21
  It's the same. It's the same uncontrolled rage
• 23:26
  as when what's his name? Michael is beating the living
• 23:30
  hell, out of the fax machine with a ball bat, Michael Bolton.
• 23:35
  Yes, thank you. Why should I change my name?
• 23:38
  He's the ass clown. My God, that movie, it's so
• 23:42
  good. No Talent ass clown.
• 23:45
  Anyway, It's the same thing, like you finally get him down
• 23:50
  Vader is down and he is just letting out all of the
• 23:53
  repressed, anger, rage his rage for Obi-Wan lying to him if you
• 23:57
  want to consider it. That his Rage of not knowing and
• 24:01
  no one telling him and blah blah blah.
• 24:03
  Yeah you know he's just fucking stops the madness ends, he
• 24:07
  breaks the cycle of the Skywalker, Madness, for the
• 24:10
  time. That's the footnote the time.
• 24:16
  For the time being well. And I think the emperor has the
• 24:19
  opposite effect, right? Because he said the after Luke
• 24:23
  does that, you hear the emperor and that's like what shakes Luke
• 24:28
  free and he's like, oh wait, what am I doing?
• 24:31
  Yeah, and then he throws his lightsaber and he turns around
• 24:35
  and steps forward. And for the first time from
• 24:39
  being lit, half Dark, Half Light, he steps forward and his
• 24:42
  whole face is in the light and you know that he's made up his
• 24:45
  mind. And it's so good.
• 24:47
  It's so fucking good. God, I love you.
• 24:50
  It's like real old school film making.
• 24:53
  Yes, it is. I love it.
• 24:58
  And actually another one of my favorite parts of this movie is
• 25:02
  when Luke is down and Palpatine's, giving them all the
• 25:06
  Force lightning and Vader's helmet just turns.
• 25:10
  Yeah, the eyeballs. But, you know, he's like, and I
• 25:13
  have just, I've said it a thousand times on this show.
• 25:15
  The headcanon that he's thinking there should be a montage of
• 25:19
  flashbacks. Similar to one Kenobi.
• 25:21
  Had it of baby Luke and baby Leia which is holding back the
• 25:26
  rocks. Oh my God.
• 25:27
  Yes Seth I love that scene so much.
• 25:30
  Like had that been a thing? I bet you it would go in there
• 25:34
  of like his time with padme's time you know the life.
• 25:37
  He wanted the life, he had envisioned gone all gone and
• 25:40
  then there is this son, the only product besides Leia but she's
• 25:45
  not in the Seen the only product of his old life.
• 25:49
  The only evidence of his love with Padme.
• 25:52
  It's truly, I mean I just love everything about it.
• 25:56
  I just love how this man's. It's Return of the Jedi is what
• 26:01
  it is because of those moments. Yeah, yes, absolutely.
• 26:06
  I just love it without it, it would just be space Bears.
• 26:12
  Well, it is a space War, right? Space space walk This face Wars
• 26:17
  with Babs. Yes, with fuzzy there's it gave
• 26:22
  us all sorts of things down the line like and zelans and poor
• 26:26
  orgs and got ya. Yes, other miscellaneous, cute
• 26:31
  and cuddly things lot of cats, I can appreciate them for showing
• 26:35
  that a world of a different type of species lives.
• 26:38
  And we got so many more of these scenes later in like Clone Wars
• 26:43
  where a small more primitive Of yeah Colony can give me a
• 26:48
  bigger. Yes and so I appreciate the door
• 26:52
  that they then opened for other storylines.
• 26:55
  Where? I mean we saw it in Mandalorian
• 26:58
  season one where a less than, like less technology yest.
• 27:03
  Yeah. Just kind of primitive in a
• 27:06
  sense compared to what they're up against rallies together.
• 27:09
  And I love that actually do. And I love that too.
• 27:12
  And that was the point of the Ewoks.
• 27:14
  George Lucas said, really? Whole point was to show that not
• 27:18
  even that, like, they were primitive but that they were
• 27:21
  closer to Nature and that is powerful.
• 27:25
  Just because someone relies on technology, doesn't really mean
• 27:28
  that there are stronger than you if you have the will and it was
• 27:33
  It was supposed to show that like being closer to Nature is
• 27:36
  actually a very good powerful thing and I like that are sent
• 27:40
  for it. Yeah, I'm 100% for it.
• 27:43
  And I actually, It's like Rebels, come in, all shapes and
• 27:49
  sizes and those little Ewoks were Rebels.
• 27:53
  They were really don't think that they had any part in this.
• 27:57
  They were like the Letterman. Mmm, I mean Clone Wars where
• 28:02
  they didn't choose a side that just kind of fell on their lap
• 28:05
  and they had to deal with it and write that made them Rebels that
• 28:09
  they're all jumping around me. You know, they did it.
• 28:13
  The brought down those Walkers. It's so happy.
• 28:16
  Cherokee it. In my No Return of the Jedi
• 28:20
  numbered Rod. It like this.
• 28:21
  Yeah, it should. Yes, the stop-motion.
• 28:24
  I love it. I appreciate it for what it is.
• 28:26
  But then you see them in like the Clones are riding them in
• 28:29
  Clone Wars. And like, yes, I know.
• 28:31
  They look so cool and Clone Wars.
• 28:34
  Yeah, and then it's kind of repurposed.
• 28:35
  They just repurposed everything the Empire.
• 28:38
  I know they did and they just took the color out of it, made
• 28:41
  it all, white and gray. It's a good movie.
• 28:44
  It's a good movie with a good end fitting and I love the group
• 28:48
  photo at the end. I know that everyone's everybody
• 28:51
  together. Take a group photo by the fire.
• 28:54
  Not you can't really fire. But someone is like shouting
• 28:57
  that the background and Lando is like trying to clap but it's
• 29:00
  just kind of like yeah there's no music.
• 29:04
  It's great. I love it.
• 29:05
  It's like the full wrap-up. It's the happy ending that we
• 29:09
  need for the closure, you know? Like, I know we're still adored
• 29:12
  had asked. To die.
• 29:14
  He wanted Han to die and even Mark Hamill had said, wouldn't
• 29:18
  it have been interesting? The who could turn to the dark
• 29:21
  side and like way after Vader dies?
• 29:24
  If you put Vader's helmet on? It's like what is this madness?
• 29:28
  I don't approve. I like the Happy Ending.
• 29:31
  Could we just have a few moments of happiness and stop.
• 29:34
  Please please for god sakes. Please it's like filoni says you
• 29:38
  should come away from Star Wars even after the heaviness.
• 29:43
  With hope, that's the real point.
• 29:46
  So if ultimately you're not getting back to that point, it's
• 29:50
  probably not realistic in the Star Wars Universe, although I
• 29:56
  don't know, I was going to say, I don't know how bad batch or
• 29:59
  and or are gonna be that hopeful see who's see where they go?
• 30:06
  Well, we know where and or goes eventually, yeah, we're about to
• 30:12
  be. We're gonna see Cassie and on
• 30:14
  the upturn now where he gets hopeful and then pushes and stop
• 30:18
  before the bad stuff at the end of the day, there is hope.
• 30:24
  Mmm. And there was at the end of
• 30:27
  Return of the Jedi because we didn't think we'd get any more.
• 30:29
  And now we're here on this long arduous Road, many many, many
• 30:34
  years, 40 to be exact when that tree that that trilogy and ended
• 30:40
  and we're still in pain, so good jobs.
• 30:43
  Star Wars. You're right though. 40 years
• 30:47
  ago. That was it?
• 30:49
  Yeah there was there were like some novels books came out.
• 30:54
  There was some comic books but that was it.
• 30:56
  There wasn't going to be more Star Wars.
• 30:58
  It's kind of nice to think of it like that and then again I'm
• 31:02
  glad we have what we have. Yeah.
• 31:07
  Luna, grease degrees. Pardon pardon me, I guess.
• 31:18
  Like one of the most important things is that Luke went into
• 31:21
  that duel with the intention of not fighting which is so Qui Gon
• 31:27
  Jin honestly. Actually you are precisely
• 31:31
  correct? Yes, yes.
• 31:33
  Oh, he skipped a generation, right?
• 31:37
  It did. It's like he was, he might not
• 31:42
  have been In the most trained Jedi or the most developed I'm
• 31:46
  talking about Luke right now, but he was the most enlightened
• 31:50
  to realize it actually defeat the Sith Lord that everyone had
• 31:54
  been trying to defeat. All These Years, too many a path
• 31:58
  of non-resistance as opposed to showing up and kicking his ass.
• 32:02
  I mean, even Yoda couldn't succeed there.
• 32:06
  No, and Luke managed to neutralize all of that with his
• 32:11
  passivity, which gave Anakin the opportunity then, you know, to
• 32:16
  redeem himself and make the decision.
• 32:18
  He wasn't allowed to make years ago when his mind was full of
• 32:21
  corrupts, you know, you know, manipulation at the time.
• 32:25
  So that's ultimately the most important part of Return of the
• 32:28
  Jedi and the like main Jedi lesson, is that the most
• 32:34
  powerful way to fight is to not fight, which is so Buddhist.
• 32:40
  Right? Absolutely.
• 32:42
  I mean, it comes full circle. All from where we started in
• 32:44
  Star Wars to where we ended it with.
• 32:46
  With this particular, Trilogy has Buddhist elements, all
• 32:50
  through it on purpose, and right.
• 32:52
  It's, it's really nice because sometimes, when you force
• 32:56
  something, you force, I mean think about Anakin he forced,
• 33:00
  he, forced his way into, like, trying to save Padme.
• 33:02
  It didn't work force his way into trying to be on the master,
• 33:06
  you know, and it didn't work. He just put you push and push
• 33:08
  and push and push. And then you just get
• 33:10
  frustrated, end up being like Vader, you end up turning into
• 33:14
  And then when you see the other side, the other point of view,
• 33:18
  the past where you don't put up such a fight and you let it
• 33:22
  happen. And you come at me, come at it,
• 33:24
  from with less resistance, like you said, things are allowed to
• 33:28
  unfold. I think if Anakin would have
• 33:30
  just, again, he had so many years of brainwashing, but if he
• 33:35
  did just thought for a second bigger picture.
• 33:38
  Not. So what he wanted, what he
• 33:40
  needed, what he was trying to do, you know?
• 33:43
  Luke was looking much bigger picture.
• 33:45
  I think. Mmm.
• 33:47
  Yeah, because if you think about a lot of the conversations that
• 33:51
  Obi-Wan and Anakin have like, especially later in the Clone
• 33:54
  Wars, Obi-Wan is trying to, to say, like you can't control
• 34:00
  things, especially after Ahsoka leaves the order, you see, like
• 34:05
  he's saying it was her decision, you have to find a way to make
• 34:08
  peace with it and he knew that Anakin was in love with Padma
• 34:13
  and Keep trying to say like it's natural, you feel this way but
• 34:17
  you're letting it control your behavior.
• 34:20
  And that's the problem. And Anakin's response was
• 34:23
  always. How would you feel if you were
• 34:25
  in my shoes who was? It's like he couldn't let go
• 34:28
  because he was so afraid of letting nature take its course
• 34:32
  would result in more pain and it's like having Luke right in
• 34:37
  his face demonstrating that it worked better against Palpatine
• 34:41
  especially yeah. Yeah, well Vader wanted to get
• 34:44
  away from him to you later. Wanted Luke to help him, write
• 34:49
  and Luke unbeknownst to Luke did, but not in the way that
• 34:54
  Vader had envisioned. So again, he was trying to
• 34:55
  control something. Yes, yes, the thing is Vader.
• 35:00
  Anakin you have to take yourself out of it for five minutes yank,
• 35:06
  your own fucking wants and needs out of it and see what happens.
• 35:10
  Now, you could argue as a soldier of the Republic he did.
• 35:13
  Right now because it was always with the blue shadow virus, we
• 35:17
  need to get there, we have to save Padme.
• 35:19
  What about Ahsoka at Point rain? We have to get in there and save
• 35:22
  it. So it's always about like he
• 35:24
  wants to save these people, but it's so he doesn't have to feel
• 35:26
  loss. You're so right?
• 35:29
  Oh my God. And so, for the first time he
• 35:31
  took himself out of the picture saved, Luke and created loss.
• 35:36
  But to him, it didn't matter at that point because he finally
• 35:39
  took himself out of the fucking picture.
• 35:41
  Mmm. And it gave him his Elf agency
• 35:44
  back, you know, it's wonderful. I think that this is also why I
• 35:52
  have such a huge problem with the Last Jedi because Luke is
• 35:55
  already learned this lesson and it's a very painful lesson.
• 35:59
  It comes from Los, he has already lost like everything and
• 36:05
  that's why by the end like if you're following the hero's
• 36:08
  journey, which I would love to talk about one day where we
• 36:10
  actually show like Luke's full Heroes, Dirty.
• 36:14
  Hmm, it's not wrong that he ran away to an island and hid.
• 36:18
  That's part of the hero's journey, but the reason he went
• 36:22
  is wrong. I agree.
• 36:23
  Yes. The whole thing about him being
• 36:25
  afraid of what Kyla was going to turn into and wanted to stop it
• 36:29
  before it started. That's, that's not what the
• 36:31
  character would have done. The character had learned
• 36:33
  specific lessons. Already, what we just talked
• 36:36
  about, if you let it unfold, you don't manipulate fate, you know,
• 36:40
  fate will just take its course and it will will all work out
• 36:43
  the way it's supposed to. It's passivity.
• 36:46
  He's already learned this lesson, he's already super
• 36:49
  enlightened. So the fact that happened really
• 36:51
  bothers me, plus like they didn't actually resolve that
• 36:55
  part of the hero's journey correctly either.
• 36:57
  So if you want to argue that, Ryan Johnson was using the
• 37:00
  hero's journey, actually didn't do it properly.
• 37:03
  Well I also all of that aside he would have never killed his own
• 37:07
  twin sister son. No matter how bad he was just
• 37:09
  wouldn't happen 100% he would never cause that pain.
• 37:13
  To his sister. No.
• 37:15
  Because he already knows someone can be redeemed because he
• 37:18
  fucking saw it. So, we're back to square one
• 37:22
  again and I will stop. But yes, message received.
• 37:29
  Yeah, like someday, I would like to, to rip apart the Last Jedi
• 37:36
  because of the analytical part of it, not even my like
• 37:41
  emotional side of Of it where I was like, so excited to see my
• 37:45
  childhood hero and he was just not the same person that was the
• 37:49
  appointing. But really I'd like to just take
• 37:51
  a step back and look at it with like a dispassionate lens and
• 37:55
  explain why it was not a successful.
• 37:58
  It doesn't like if it's a piece of the pie, like, it doesn't
• 38:01
  actually fit for specific reasons, like yeah, someday,
• 38:05
  maybe stay tuned. But anyway, return to the Jedi
• 38:14
  Lucas perfect. The end.
• 38:16
  The turn of the Jedi. Happy 40th.
• 38:24
  All right. Back by popular demand.
• 38:27
  Hey, we had stopped asking audience questions because we
• 38:31
  didn't think people really cared, but I guess we're wrong.
• 38:34
  Yay. So here's our question for you
• 38:39
  this week listeners, what is your favorite part of Return of
• 38:43
  the Jedi. That's simple.
• 38:45
  Just to let us know and we will read one of the answers on next
• 38:48
  week's episode. Next week's episode.
• 38:52
  Oh God, we'll be back from celebration and we'll have all
• 38:59
  the tea to Spill and then some I don't know what that's going to
• 39:04
  entail because right now we have not left for celebration.
• 39:08
  Yet I leave tomorrow Lauren and I leave for London.
• 39:12
  The next So by the time you hear this, it will be completed.
• 39:17
  I will have done the panel to the best of my abilities.
• 39:20
  Yeah, and news will be revealed will be there for it.
• 39:23
  So join us back here. We'll give you our Full
• 39:26
  Experience. Thank you so much for joining us
• 39:29
  here on the most things Kenobi podcast.
• 39:31
  We appreciate every single one of our patrons and are grateful
• 39:34
  for your support. Truly truly.
• 39:36
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• 39:38
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• 39:41
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• 39:44
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• 39:47
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• 39:50
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• 39:53
  And if you need, just one place to find all of these head, over
• 39:56
  to most things Kenobi.com. So until next time, my speech
• 40:02
  twin May the force be with you always.
• 40:00
  So until next time, my speech twin May the force be with you
• 40:05
  always.