Latest / Willow Healing Matters Podcast / How to Stop People Pleasing, Trust Yourself & Heal Anxiety | Lisa Van Zuylen

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How to Stop People Pleasing, Trust Yourself & Heal Anxiety | Lisa Van Zuylen · Willow Healing Matters Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Willow Healing Matters, the podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're so excited to have you joining us on this journey
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: where we explore different ways to empower your soul,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's healing in your kitchen or all the way up in the corporate world.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Come with us as we look into different ways to heal your mind, body and soul.
• 0:19
  [music]
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: it's Catherine Crestani joining you for another episode of Willow Healing Matters
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: and today I'm joined by Lisa Van Zylund.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So she is a soul designer who has helped hundreds of clients over
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: the past 17 years transform spiritually, A big welcome to the show, Lisa.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me, Catherine.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you call yourself a sole designer.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because the timing is I just had a client this morning
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: and we were redesigning her timelines and redesigning like her connections
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: with others.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I love hearing the backstory.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: How did you end up doing this work, Lisa?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: What led you to who you are today?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I started 20 years ago when I had a panic attack and I My family,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: who I love and adore, was just like, oh, take a Xanax.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And intuitively,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, nah, I'm gonna look for other ways to manage stress and anxiety.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And just in this moment,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's almost like,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: This inner, like, go, like,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: went in me where this just,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: like, inner fire where, like, okay, let's find solutions.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find solutions.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I, like,
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: just kind of soaking up everything I can, like,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: spiritually,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: emotionally, like,
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: just anything I would learn about,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's, like,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I went to learn about meditation and aura readings and chakra readings
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: and past life readings and then And I was just doing it for myself.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was an account manager at a marketing company.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was super stressed out.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I deal with these employees and my coworkers and bosses and all this stuff?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I manage my stress too?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so just doing it for myself for years.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got certified in trauma work.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and then honestly, I'm a very logical person.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like, My great aunt was a psychic, but she did hair and she did real estate.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: She did these other things.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this will just be something I do for fun.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like give readings here and there.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then a good friend of mine who's a psychic too was like, God wants you to be a healer.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: You better get to it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I didn't even know this was like an option to be honest.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so I feel like God kind of pushed me in this direction.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was saying I was an intuitive energy healer for many years.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then after working with,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: hundreds of people,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: different people, they're like, yeah, you're a lot more than that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to kind of maybe market yourself a little bit differently.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it was about a year ago that I got the message Soul Designer.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And because I help you with spiritual,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: emotional, physical transformation, because it's not one thing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: That someone comes to me for.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a lot of things.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I can help somebody relax.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: In the same session, I'm helping their dad cross over.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm helping them have verbiage for boundaries at work.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like very vast.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very, you know, like a lot of different things.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like, let's remodel what needs to be processed, what needs to be looked at.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's using intuition and kind of just tapping in.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I also love, I love that there's always something that happens at the start, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, yeah, I just had a panic attack.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I just, I was like, what
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: is this?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I having this?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what is happening?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always had Anxiety growing up, like probably in my teens.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized there was a lot that happened in my family,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: which I don't know if we want to get into,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: but like a lot that happened in our family when I was 13 and everything kind
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: of turned upside down.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting how just going through all this stuff with my family
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: that it kind of almost became, well, it did become like test anxiety.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like that's where I channeled that fear and that anxiety and that trauma and
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: the emotions I wasn't able to process.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like also manifested into that.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, it was like kind of building up.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little stress, a little stress.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like in my 20s, like getting more anxiety.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I was out in college, like graduated and out in the world.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what am I going to do with my life?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, boom, panic attack.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: What am I going to do with my life?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I freaked out.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then it just made me have to really go.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Go searching for answers.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I feel that panic is more things that like you're not on the right path, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like your soul saying like,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: if we do this, then we're going to be going down completely the wrong path.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's very rare you have a panic attack over making a big decision over something
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: that feels really aligned.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's normally you having a panic attack over something that is truly not aligned with your soul.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, ironically, when I had it, I wasn't working.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have a job yet.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was like literally, I think, a few months before I got my job.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I was freaking out because I was like, what am I going to do?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like college, you have a framework.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have a course, you take the class, you do this.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like all of a sudden you're out.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're out in the world and you're like, I got to figure this out.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I want to do?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I want to go?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you have this blank canvas, which can be so liberating.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're so used to your parents giving you a path,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: school giving you a path,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: all these things that now you're just like, where am I going to do?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where am I going to go?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's going to happen?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, so it's like that's kind of what really,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: really happened.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you work similarly to me, Lisa.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, this is kind of just a little bit of what I do.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you're in the session, like you said, you can be doing relaxation.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can be doing helping spirits cross over.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: You can be creating whole new timelines for people.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: It really just depends on what you're guided to do.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I find exactly like you said,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: labeling that can be really tricky because it's like,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: well, It's I don't know exactly how I'm going to work with you.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just know your life's going to be different afterwards.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, 100 percent.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like so many people have worked with me and they're like,
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: wow, that was a lot much more than I thought.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, you can't compare me to attritional psychic.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can't compare me to like just an energy healer.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's why, you know.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Soul design to kind of hopefully encompass that, you know?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, how do you tell people like, this is magical and it's going to be pure magic.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Just like that.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to have a lot of fun.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be pure magic.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a lot of fun and you're going to clear some energy.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it could be a lot of energy.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've had clients say they've cleared yours with a trauma in like a single session.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's really funny because I had,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I used to have this coach and he'd be like, how do you define what you do?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a journey in itself because we're still in this world
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: where people need some sort of label.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, how do you come back?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I have actually found it really fun to play with chat GPT about this.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, this is what I do.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: How would you describe me?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then what it came back for me was inner authority guide rather than listen
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: to your intuition.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I like that.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: and then a speaker and writer on human potential and conscious leadership,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: which is basically a fancy way.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a really fancy way of saying I lead people back to themselves.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, yes.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's cool because we have these tools,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: but anything that you use is just as good as what you put in.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Same as,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: when you're working with clients,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: what I find this,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: it's just as good as how open you are and how open they are as well
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: to receiving what needs to come through.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: A hundred percent.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: The more open
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: someone is,
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: the more I see,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know, because it's just, it makes it so much more Yeah, it's energy.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of like people emotionally.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you open the door this much, I'm only going to see this much.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: But if you open this much, I'm going to see the whole room.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking about this with a client this morning as well.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love synchronicities.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: when I work with clients,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: the more they talk,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: the happier I am because I know that they're letting the energy out or letting
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: the emotions out of what needs to be shifted.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what they're saying might be nothing what we end up working on,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: but they still needed to get it out in the first place so that they opened the door
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: for us to work together.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, Lisa,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: what is the – they asked me to ask you this – what is something that you found
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: the most mind-blowing from the work that you do?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's a fun question.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: To be honest – I feel like I'm constantly getting mind blown.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't just like think of one, but I feel like
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: helping people, like, I don't know.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm thinking of just like an example.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had a client who was like, okay, you're serious.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Spirit guy's name's Mark.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: He has dark hair.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's a bigger guy.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's there to help you feel more grounded when you feel anxious.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, can spirit guys be people that have passed away?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, they can be.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, my brother Mark passed away eight years ago and he just described him.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was like,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay well he's there to help you and you can call him anytime and so just seeing
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: that like specifics like funny but it's just
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm constantly being surprised all
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: the time and just I think another thing that's so fascinating is I was seeing people
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: in person literally up until two months before COVID I got an intuitive download
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: that was like You should try remote sessions.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so like people I was seeing in person, I'm like, I want to get your feedback.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you think between in person or remote?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, messages are great.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to leave my bed.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is awesome.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, great.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes if I really think about it,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: that you can intend the energy to be with you in person and that you can interpret
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: that energy.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, if I think about it too hard, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: kind of crazy.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I think about it,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: it's like, wow, like it's It's, you know, mind-blowing in that sense.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And, like,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: I had a client,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: I did a live event,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: and this woman in Australia, where you are, was like, oh, I felt something.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: I want to book a session.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, okay, cool.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, so I don't know.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just the fact that you can help somebody,
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: like, you know, somewhere else in the world, just energetically,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: is just so...
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So empowering and so amazing that like you can do that without,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, that and also I'm getting really hot.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: My sweater's like, maybe
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: it's all this energy we're talking about.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's, yeah, it's just kind of crazy that you can transfer energy in that way
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: and how I think it's mind blowing that I can read somebody without them even saying
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: a word.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't even have to tell me anything what's going on.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had another client At this event, and I read this woman, and she's like, read my husband.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as he sat down, and I was like, can I be straight with you?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he just nodded.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't get his name, and again, we did it.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing, nothing.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: All I got was a nod.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sure, you can be straight with me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, great.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you need to stop being passive-aggressive with your employees.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, can you sit them down?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Say, are they going through something hard?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they BSing you?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're BSing you.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe three strikes are out.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then if they're going to something hard,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: maybe figure out something relative to them and their situation.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: And he was just like,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: that was really like, I just,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: especially when I do readings like that,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: that just like come in and you're like, straight to the point, no BS.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's so,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very logical,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: but I feel like this work is like almost, In some ways, it's out there.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a spiritual aspect.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then I bring in the logical side.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I wish more people understood that I use my intuition,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: but I also use a lot of my logic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more efficient than traditional therapies because I'm tapping in
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: with somebody without having to fill out a hundred thing questionnaire or talk
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: for hours and me ask questions.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just tap into their energy.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what's going on here?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's going on?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So calling people out in nice ways, you know.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, sometimes you'll just know what to say without them saying anything.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love too sometimes when I'm working with a client, they haven't even said anything.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, your guides are here and they're really, really chatty.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, because they've been waiting.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes they've just been waiting for someone to open the door so
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: the information can flow through.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're working with people and redesigning their soul,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: they're giving me the words,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: redesigning their soul with them because we work with them,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: what are some changes that people have felt,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: happen or what is one of the biggest shifts that you've seen or what kind of comes
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: through?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've had clients leave toxic marriages.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had one client,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: he's like,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't have done that unless the work we did together,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: like that couldn't have happened.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And They've helped people leave toxic jobs
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: and oh there's actually two toxic marriages at least two and then a few toxic jobs
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: and then that's definitely helping people step into their power and the biggest
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: though and like seems like a theme for all
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: the clients is just trusting themselves more.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And releasing the emotions in the way of that.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I seem to attract people that are people pleasers.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And because I used to be one.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And once I healed that part of me,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: it's almost like I have this inner sassy woman that someone...
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Steps over that boundary.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, we are not going down that road.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she's great.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So helping people kind of tap into that and not
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: and just wrecking like I had one client who she was helping everybody at work
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: with things she shouldn't even be helping them with.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't even her responsibility.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was interesting because we worked together for about It was not until about
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: after four years of working together that all of a sudden we saw this trauma
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: that happened when she was 13.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And these kids are making fun of her, like bullying her.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it manifested into her overcompensating at work
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: and like doing all these things she shouldn't have to do.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden she started crying and she hates crying.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, crying's good.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like so proud of her.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, we're gonna go.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: You cried.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: We tapped in.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: We got to the iceberg.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like got it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I Then all of a sudden after that she showed up so much more confidently at work.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: She was like calling meetings on people and like I was like do you realize how amazing that is?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's how amazing are you like doing these things?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like oh yeah like you know just
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: so it's really it's really great to see
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: that transformation because you know.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm essentially being the person I wish I had 20 years ago.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my gosh.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I would have been so ecstatic if I missed someone
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: like me.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, oh, my gosh,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: where I sign up.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, please.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and then all the things about spirituality I would learn.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just, I don't know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: And if someone can help me relax.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, my gosh.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I guess how people fall asleep on the phone, you know.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: so for people who are people pleasers,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: what advice would you have for them to start stepping out?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know you apply logic and spirituality, but I'm sure there's a bit of a formula there.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: So especially with people pleasing,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: there is,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is widely,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: maybe not everywhere in the world,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: but I feel like there's a big portion of society that apologizes
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: for things they shouldn't.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like first step is start being more conscious about where you're apologizing and
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you even need to be apologizing about certain things where it's almost
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: if someone does something else, sometimes our automatic reaction is say, I'm sorry.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that wasn't your place to say sorry.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're putting yourself in that position.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it changes the dynamics of something, whether that is.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Work, relationship, friendship, maybe an acquaintance encounter.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like who knows?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: it's like the list can go on and you're setting that tone
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: that something is your fault.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like your fault when it may not be your fault at all.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say first step is like be aware about are you saying sorry where you don't need to?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And another would be boundaries are there to help you feel safe and boundaries can change.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And even for myself personally, speaking my truth was really hard at first.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like my voice would shake.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like even when my old roommates in college,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would like say certain things like,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know, and just setting a boundary can be really uncomfortable at first.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like saying no, because you especially you don't want to upset somebody.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because the reason we have a hard time,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: saying no is we think we're in essence when we're saying no,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: we're protecting ourself.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the other person we're around, we don't feel safe maybe saying no.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it could not even be that person.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be our own inner trauma that we haven't healed yet.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And knowing that our boundaries change,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: like what boundary you had yesterday may be different than tomorrow.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not one thing.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as you grow and evolve, your boundaries grow and evolve.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the biggest indicator is like your gut.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: If something happens, you're like, oof, that doesn't feel right.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know why.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you don't know why.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to over-explain that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to say,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: so many people,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: people pleasers,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: like to over-explain why they're doing certain things.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, okay,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: how can you
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: kind of step back and ask yourself,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to give this person an explanation or I'm just doing this to I'm
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: over explaining to justify my answer
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't feel 100% safe setting this boundary or saying no.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to over explain until I do.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And even in that essence, you're going to over explain and you still might not feel safe.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: it's just being more conscious and aware of what you're saying and what you're doing
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: and what works for you and what doesn't and knowing how being more conscious
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: and aware of how people act around you,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: how you act around them and how you feel around them.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully that was like a good answer.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it was kind of like.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was the perfect answer of what you needed to share.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I love your example of the who you are apologizing to.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: My example that popped in my head when you were saying that is like someone bumps
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: into you in the shopping center, but you apologize for it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't have a right to be there,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: even though you were just standing in the aisle looking at
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: which organic one actually is the best price or something like that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then my husband brought this up a few years ago.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: He sent me this thing and he said,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: when you say I'm sorry all the time, you're giving away your power.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if you change those words to I apologize for X, Y, and Z,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: you're actually reclaiming your power and your authority in that moment rather
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: than giving away because you feel like you have to make up for the situation.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other part of what you touched upon,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like that you brought up too, that boundaries are a shift.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Boundaries can shift and change.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: my husband and I had this discussion again the other day where we were talking
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: about AI because I hated AI.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, there is no way I'm using AI.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And now he's like, use it all the time now.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said, yes, to help me do things that would take me hours, it does in a minute.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, but I still am not comfortable with you buying an AI TV.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like, oh, okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said, so yes, my boundary has shifted.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: People can change.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: These things can change.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: a really important thing that you bring up,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa, is that people can change and shift and you're allowed to do that too.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's another thing too.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: We get so attached to our identity and like I say no to this and then all of
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: a sudden I want to say no to that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that's not working for you that you feel bad about when
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: in essence it's just you changing and evolving.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, but I feel like that can be a topic for like so many people.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Different things,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: especially when it comes to like friends and relationships and work and just,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: and that I actually heard,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching the Today Show and one of the hosts was talking
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: about how sometimes people would talk to her for like an hour or more
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: and she's not invested in the conversation at all.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: She'll just like say yes, yeah, uh-huh,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: and then she'll kind of tune out and like say key words and I'm like,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, your energy is your currency.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't want to be in that conversation,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: like if I was working with her, I would say, hey, you can say, oh, okay.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or like,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: if they're going through something hard,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: you can say, I'm so sorry you're going through that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a couple of different avenues you can go with that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm so sorry you're going through that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you get the support you need, but I got to go or whatever it is.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or if like they are a good friend and they're used to you listening and maybe all
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: a sudden you're putting an emotional boundary that you just don't Want to hold space
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: for them anymore because it's taking a lot of space.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can just say, I'm so sorry going through that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the emotional bandwidth to hold that conversation for
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the biggest,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: especially when it comes to setting boundaries,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: is also having good communication and having good verbiage to do that
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: because I feel like what held me back for
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: so long Sometimes certain situations I would just like go quiet and
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: because I didn't know what to say and if I was more empowered and I had
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: the right verbiage that I could have exited that conversation a lot sooner
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: and not just sat there and like listen to somebody you know because it's and
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: the thing is and also recognizing the people in your life if they are the people
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: in your life you say oh I'm so sorry going through that
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: or like you know I'm I can't listen to your story right now.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I got to go or, you know, listen to those things.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: But then if I forgot, I lost my train of thought.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: and then over here,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: it's setting boundaries,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: having the verbiage and recognizing how you feel around that person is like
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: the biggest.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And knowing that if they're draining your energy,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: that's like mindful about like, do you want this person in your life anymore?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to spend less time with them?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Recognizing that.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think we can justify to ourselves like, oh, but this is my friend or my family.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I should be able to be around them.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I should be able to support them.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe internally,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: either you're going through something or something has shifted in you
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: and you're not able to hold space for them anymore.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes we feel ourselves slipping into judgment, right?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my gosh, why can't they just do that?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I learned to say, thank you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that's not my journey.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful I'm not in their mind right now.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or thank you for the good I cannot see.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I do for myself.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: like you said, you don't have to always put your energy into that conversation.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend and She was pushing the boundary and she kept bringing me up
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: and I said, I can't make these decisions for you.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I recommend you do.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now when she does that, I was like, have you gone to your tree?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because she goes to a tree.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, well, and she goes, oh no, I've forgotten to do that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go do that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll chat with you.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to have a chat once you've made the decision,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not going to sit here and make the decision for you because then people...
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Put you in that savior role, which I know I'm consciously choosing not to be.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you were alluding to before was like they get stuck in
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: the victim story and you don't have to save them or you don't have to get sucked
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: into their victim story too.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's hard when you're so used to helping everybody.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's like that idea of like, well, if I can help them, I should.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but your energy is being sacrificed and you're feeling not good.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And That's a big indicator.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I had a really one of my like childhood best friends.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: She we had a falling out many years ago and I used to kind of let her like cross
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: the boundary and like how she talked to me.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I kind of just like forget about it,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: kind of ignore certain comments she would say and let it kind of slide.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden something happened and this internal switch went in me
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: that was like, I don't care if I've known you five minutes or 20 years.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't treat me with love and respect, bye-bye.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just not acceptable.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And our whole dynamic changed.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, she's like, I really missed you.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I told her exactly that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had no problem saying that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I miss you.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you don't recognize those boundaries and you don't know how
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: to treat me with love and respect all the time.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have The patient's real.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're friends and now she really values me again, you know?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel that sometimes the hardest boundaries can be with family as well.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if it's a behavior that other members of the family accept and you don't.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I found actually expressing that can lead to a shift anyway.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as we start to finish our time together, Lisa,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I ask the guests that come on the show,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: if you could heal or change something in the world, what would it be?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Something I wish everybody knew is you're always taken care of,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: like normalize everything is happening for your highest good,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: always, regardless of how it looks.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And having that mindset,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's like shifts everything in your world,
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's Things are falling apart and realizing it was meant to fall apart
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe just trusting that everything's working out for your highest good,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: however it looks.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if people want to come and work with you and have their soul designed
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: the way they want it, where's the best place they can find you?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they can go to my website, souldesignlisa.com and that's S-O-U-L designlisa.com.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make sure to include all those details in the show notes so people can come
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: and connect and find you.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for sharing your tips,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa, and also your journey into becoming who you are today.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I truly appreciate your energy and you being in this space.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: You too.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Catherine.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: My virtual obsession,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: my romantic thriller, is now available on Amazon and other online retailers.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: This book explores the intersection of loneliness, love,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: and how chasing perfection through technology can lead to fantasy
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: and reality colliding.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: My virtual obsession out now.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to Willow Healing Matters, the podcast.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much love and gratitude that you are taking the time out of your day
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: to empower you on your healing journey.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: The views shared by the person being interviewed might not necessarily reflect that
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: of the host and should be used in your own discernment.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Trust what resonates for you and follow your heart and soul guidance.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you have any underlying medical conditions or mental health This can be found in
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: the show notes.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Remember to activate, align, heal, empower and find love in everything that you do.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Hey beautiful souls,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: it is Catherine Crestani here and I wanted to have a chat with you about
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: a really amazing cacao that I drink to help me get in ceremony,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: to help me ground, but also just because it tastes freaking good.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're curious and want to know about drinking something other than coffee
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: or your standard tea, why not check out Creation Cacao?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love this with a bit of honey and cinnamon sprinkled in and Just letting it brew
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: and having that whole intention as you create this cup.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're curious and want to know more,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: check out the link in the show notes and in the bio and enjoy your cup of cacao.