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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 212 "Letting Go" · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:09
  Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk Back to the Rock, the
• 0:13
  unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by toughpigs.com.
• 0:17
  This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock Back to the
• 0:19
  Rock episode by episode, along with the talented producers,
• 0:23
  performers, writers and builders who helped put it all together.
• 0:26
  I'm your host, silly creature Johannes.
• 0:29
  Today we are talking about the penultimate episode of Season 2,
• 0:33
  Letting Go, in which Moki prepares to say goodbye to
• 0:36
  Lanford while we prepare for the inevitable end of this podcast
• 0:40
  season. Don't worry everybody, we're
• 0:42
  going to have one more episode, so don't say goodbye just yet.
• 0:46
  And two things we are not letting go of are our very
• 0:49
  special guests. First up is the brilliant and
• 0:51
  hilarious puppeteer who brings Moki, Fraggle, Cotter, Bendoozer
• 0:55
  and the storyteller to life. It's Donna Kimball.
• 0:57
  Hello, Donna. Hello, Joe.
• 1:00
  Hi everyone. Hello, so good to have you back
• 1:03
  on the podcast. I'm delighted to be here.
• 1:06
  Wonderful. Our 2nd guest, who I hope is
• 1:09
  also delighted to be here, is the incredibly talented
• 1:11
  puppeteer who brings Wembley Fraggle to life.
• 1:14
  It is Jordan Lockhart. Hi, Jordan.
• 1:17
  Thank you. Hello, lovely to see you again.
• 1:20
  Likewise, I am so excited to have both of you here to talk
• 1:23
  about this episode and also just so cool to have two of the
• 1:28
  Fraggle 5 in this this Zoom room right now of doing this
• 1:33
  interview together. I'm I'm excited to be here with
• 1:36
  Jordy. I'm excited to be here with
• 1:39
  Donners. Adorable.
• 1:45
  So I I know in this episode we're about to talk about
• 1:47
  there's not a whole lot of Moki and Wembley interacting
• 1:50
  together, so I'd love to hear a little bit more from each of
• 1:53
  you, just like the series as a whole.
• 1:56
  How do you 2 define the relationship between Moki and
• 2:00
  Wembley? Well, it's impossible to not
• 2:06
  have a soft spot for Wembley because, you know, and and
• 2:11
  Jordan too. So I loved like in the first,
• 2:14
  the first episode where, you know, Moki is really comforting
• 2:20
  Wembley after he got, you know, so very scared.
• 2:24
  So yeah, I think there's I, I Jordy is like our, our kid
• 2:29
  brother kind of on, on set between certainly within the 13
• 2:35
  of us. I, I, I think that that's true,
• 2:37
  or at least that's how I feel. But I don't think I'm alone
• 2:39
  there. But yeah, I, I love the
• 2:42
  relationship. It's really sweet.
• 2:44
  And yeah, that I love the, the silliness of Jordan and of
• 2:49
  course Moki loves the silliness of Wembley.
• 2:51
  So. So you think yourself as as like
• 2:56
  the younger sibling on set does that.
• 2:59
  Does that strike ring true for you?
• 3:02
  For sure, For sure. I I I really do feel that
• 3:07
  Wembley's relationship with the characters mirrors my
• 3:10
  relationship with my colleagues and especially the five.
• 3:15
  Yeah, it's funny to say that, Donna.
• 3:16
  I mean, that's it exactly. Especially the sense of
• 3:20
  admiration that Wembley has for everybody, but also that need
• 3:25
  for protection, you know what I mean?
• 3:28
  That comes, but rather more than a need, it's just that
• 3:30
  protection that comes unconditionally and that love.
• 3:34
  And it's such a beautiful thing in the show.
• 3:36
  And I just see that reflected in our relationship.
• 3:40
  Yeah, for, for me, that's a big one is like, it's that big
• 3:43
  sister thing, which I know there's always a little bit of
• 3:46
  tension when that comes up. Well, monkey's not really a
• 3:49
  maternal figure. She's so much more than that.
• 3:52
  But I think for me and for for the character, it's been very
• 3:55
  much that relationship of like, hold me, hold me, you know.
• 4:01
  Come here, Come here. This is insane, I know.
• 4:06
  We'll get to it together. What you just said, it's
• 4:11
  actually makes me think a lot about the original Fraggle Rock
• 4:13
  series. And, you know, in in that one, I
• 4:17
  felt like the relationship between the two characters was
• 4:18
  more about, you know, Wembley is is so unsure of himself and he
• 4:22
  is such a little kid compared to the other fragile 5.
• 4:26
  And, you know, it's like the the he describes himself as a wimp.
• 4:29
  I think a lot in in the series. And Moki is, is this maternal
• 4:34
  figure. She is like the one who's going
• 4:35
  to grab him for a big hug whether he wants it or not.
• 4:38
  And, you know, just kind of take his hand and lead them to
• 4:41
  wherever he needs to go. But for both of you, you've
• 4:44
  taken the characters in such a different direction for Back to
• 4:46
  the Rock in in a really natural direction that it definitely
• 4:51
  keeps some of the elements from the original.
• 4:54
  But Wembley is not quite, as you know, we spined it in Back to
• 5:00
  the Rock and Moki definitely is not nearly, as you said,
• 5:04
  maternal. But I think it's more about like
• 5:06
  that that age that the maturity level that she had on the
• 5:10
  original series that now she's a little bit more of, you know,
• 5:13
  one of the gang than she was before.
• 5:16
  So do do you feel like that also kind of putting yourselves into
• 5:19
  the characters has helped to kind of drive their relationship
• 5:22
  to to each other? Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 5:25
  I think it's impossible not to do that.
• 5:29
  Yeah, I think we, it's, you know, it's always tough
• 5:32
  inheriting a character. You have to be true to some
• 5:35
  aspects of the original, and yet you have to, you have to evolve
• 5:41
  the character. That's also part of your job.
• 5:43
  And it's, you know, it's a it's a, it's a delicate balance
• 5:46
  between the two. And but how wonderful to do it
• 5:51
  with other people. And then you find that your own
• 5:55
  character can grow in, in surprising ways and evolve in,
• 6:00
  in ways that you didn't, that you didn't anticipate.
• 6:04
  So, yeah, kind of less maternal, more big sister.
• 6:07
  I don't know. I mean, I, I think I've said
• 6:08
  this before that Kathy Mullen is, is a touchy person and I am
• 6:12
  as well. So they think Moki is, you know,
• 6:14
  has certainly retained that and and is is protective.
• 6:19
  But yes, is very silly and therefore 1 of the gang.
• 6:22
  I think my my silliness, it keeps me keeps me as more one of
• 6:29
  the gang. I don't know, I'm just riffing
• 6:31
  here. Thoughts.
• 6:32
  Yeah, that's all right. That's all the podcasts are.
• 6:34
  It's just riffing. No, you nailed it.
• 6:39
  And and also that zaniness that comes through.
• 6:42
  I mean, nobody gets to see the the Donna that we see between
• 6:46
  scenes, but it comes through. Elaborate.
• 6:51
  Well, you're always doing voices.
• 6:53
  You totally know how to jump in on a, on a gag.
• 6:56
  I mean, it's just it's, it's all there and and it's starting to
• 6:58
  come through in Moki and she's so much more vibrant that she
• 7:01
  ever was before. And that's because of you.
• 7:03
  Yeah. Well, thanks.
• 7:06
  Yeah, I'm a I'm a Yeah. Well, I, I, I know I've said
• 7:10
  this before, then Jordan is our our prankster, our number one
• 7:14
  prankster on set and was from the very, very beginning, You
• 7:17
  know, they were, they were cutouts of Dave Gold's face.
• 7:22
  He. He, Oh my God.
• 7:24
  Left them everywhere, left them on.
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  You'd. You'd go and get some water and
• 7:28
  come back and there'd be one on your chair.
• 7:30
  They were everywhere. I put it on my.
• 7:32
  IPod. At Gold.
• 7:37
  That's great, especially with Dave because he was apparently
• 7:40
  such a prankster back in the day.
• 7:41
  I I assume he still is and would be if he was able to be on set
• 7:45
  with all of you. Nice that you're you're keeping
• 7:47
  that trend alive for him if not for everyone else.
• 7:51
  Yeah, I love that. So on this episode's topic of
• 7:57
  letting go. So I appreciate that, that the
• 8:01
  way that the episode, we'll talk about this later, but the
• 8:03
  episode isn't saying that letting go means saying goodbye.
• 8:06
  It's not a it's nothing final. It's just a way to to change and
• 8:11
  adapt and kind of maybe sometimes just put something
• 8:14
  aside for now. So as we're recording this
• 8:19
  episode, we still don't know whether or not Back to the Rock
• 8:22
  is being renewed for a third season.
• 8:24
  So it must be difficult for the two of you that there was a
• 8:27
  point in which you were done filming Season 2 and you had to
• 8:30
  let go, not knowing the future of the show, not knowing if
• 8:34
  you're going to be coming back to it or or if so, in what form
• 8:37
  you're coming back to Fraggle Rock.
• 8:39
  So does that continue to be really difficult to kind of this
• 8:43
  have this extended sense of letting go to Fraggle Rock?
• 8:49
  Donna, do you find that over time you just get used to, you
• 8:54
  just find a way to, what's a good word, just sort of adapt to
• 9:00
  the constant changing? You just go, OK, here comes that
• 9:03
  period of potential pain. Now I need to feel it and I need
• 9:06
  it, you know? Yes.
• 9:09
  And where you get used to the uncertainty, where you're just
• 9:13
  sort of riding this wave of uncertainty to hear yes, will of
• 9:18
  course be great, but you know, to hear no, that's a finality.
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  And and truthfully, Jordan, neither Jordan and I know and
• 9:27
  no, no one knows yet. So we're not.
• 9:31
  Just kidding. What just.
• 9:34
  Kidding. You heard it here first on the
• 9:37
  podcast Big News. We just totally zoned out of the
• 9:42
  sorry, go ahead. But you know it.
• 9:47
  Yeah, It's it's it's for me. It's still OK because we don't
• 9:51
  know. And if we hear a no, that'll
• 9:54
  that'll be another, another, you know, that'll be a blow, but
• 9:58
  it'll be another grieving process.
• 10:00
  Really. It was wonderful to go to things
• 10:04
  like Dragon Con and be together and put our Fraggles on and, you
• 10:08
  know, wave it kids and stuff. That was, that was wonderful.
• 10:11
  So hopefully we will be doing that and we get to where they're
• 10:17
  gearing up for the Fraggle Rock Live tour.
• 10:20
  And we've got some recording to do for that, which is super
• 10:23
  exciting. So I think we'll always, we'll
• 10:27
  always be Fraggles I. Mean we.
• 10:30
  Just don't know where we're shooting the series, sorry.
• 10:32
  Yeah, well, very little changes aside from, OK, we're not on
• 10:36
  set, we don't have the puppets, but we all speak so often and
• 10:41
  we've got a a group, you know, that we're all, there's always
• 10:44
  stuff going on there on online. And so it's just, it feels like
• 10:49
  it's maybe it's not the full magic, but it's half the magic,
• 10:53
  you know, and this periods like this where it's neither yay nor
• 10:58
  I'm sorry, neither yay nor nay, it kind of feels like a period
• 11:02
  for gratitude just to lean into gratitude and just feel really
• 11:06
  good about that. And, and the gratitude will
• 11:08
  continue if the show is in fact over, you know, then that's,
• 11:13
  that's just how I feel about it. It's like, of course, your heart
• 11:16
  sinks into your stomach, but at the same time, it's like, well,
• 11:20
  that happened and we are all so much stronger as performers and
• 11:23
  as people for the experience. And that's like a drug in
• 11:26
  itself, just unpacking that. So it's a huge gift going
• 11:29
  forward. That's just how I approach it,
• 11:30
  yeah. That is such a mature way to
• 11:34
  think about it for me, I'm the. One who's That shouldn't have
• 11:38
  been yours, Donna. I'm like, should have been
• 11:39
  monkeys, but I'm the one who's like, like Moki clinging to that
• 11:44
  pot being like, no, no, no, no, we're not ready for this yet.
• 11:48
  We need to hold on to this as long as we can.
• 11:52
  But I'm not in the middle of it like you 2.
• 11:53
  So it's like I can, I can get away with that.
• 11:55
  I can get away with being the crazy person online who's, you
• 11:58
  know, saying no, no, we, we, we, this is something that the world
• 12:01
  needs. We that means we need to have
• 12:02
  it. There's no, there's no, no just
• 12:05
  give. Us more fractal.
• 12:05
  Rock, please. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:08
  Yep, we feel that way too. There are just so many factors
• 12:11
  that that go into whether a show gets picked up.
• 12:15
  Just lot, lots and lots of factors, most of them monetary,
• 12:19
  which is feels so antithetical to what what we're doing.
• 12:23
  But you know, it's. Oh, just say it.
• 12:25
  It's gross. Come on.
• 12:27
  It's kind of gross. When you when you pull it up
• 12:29
  against Fraggle Rock, it is so gross.
• 12:31
  Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, it's pretty gross.
• 12:34
  It's pretty gross, but you know, what do you do?
• 12:38
  It's it's show business. It's not show art.
• 12:40
  It's not show Fraggle. It's show.
• 12:43
  But what if it was show? Fraggle.
• 12:45
  Wouldn't that be awesome? Come on, come on.
• 12:50
  The best. Well, Speaking of show Fraggle,
• 12:54
  we have a whole show of Fraggles to talk about here in this
• 12:57
  episode, so let's jump into it. This episode begins with Doc and
• 13:02
  Sprocket. They're playing fetch.
• 13:05
  Sprocket is so good at it. Doc thinks for a moment that he
• 13:08
  might be able to go pro, which I also want to see.
• 13:11
  I want to see like the Olympics of fetch.
• 13:14
  That must be a thing. Maybe not the Olympics, but like
• 13:17
  people who are really good at playing fetch with their dogs
• 13:21
  and they do it in like a stadium or something that sounds I don't
• 13:24
  think I'm making. That.
• 13:26
  Up. Yeah, yeah, put that on ESPN 2
• 13:29
  or something like bury it like 3:00 AM I'd still watch it.
• 13:34
  So Sprocket while playing fetch, he brings back a pamphlet for
• 13:37
  doggy day camp. And this is great where he has a
• 13:40
  dream sequence where he and Doc are in canoes fishing for bones.
• 13:47
  It's great. Jordan you you worked on these
• 13:50
  Doc and Sprocket bits Are you were you like in this were below
• 13:54
  this canoe in the scene? Johnny and I were both crammed
• 13:58
  inside the canoe. Oh, there wasn't a hole at the
• 14:01
  bottom. You're just in a canoe.
• 14:02
  No. Sir.
• 14:03
  No, Sir. Yeah, that was a fun couple of
• 14:07
  hours because you know, the way he and I are together, so you
• 14:10
  can imagine that in a really tight space with poor Lily, as
• 14:16
  usual, enduring our nonsense. That was good, good fun.
• 14:20
  I love this for you. Sprocket gives doc those PD ES
• 14:26
  those puppy dog eyes and she gives in and lets him go to
• 14:30
  doggy day camp as if day camp was not insanely expensive.
• 14:35
  Like as we know. It's not like, oh, just
• 14:38
  honestly, she's a student and she's working as a as a waiter
• 14:41
  in her part time to pay the bills.
• 14:43
  It's like, yeah, sure, I'll just pay thousands of dollars, let my
• 14:46
  dog go to camp. Yeah, I know how much those
• 14:49
  camps cost. I'm.
• 14:50
  I'm a mom. I remember.
• 14:51
  Yeah. Yeah, As an adult now, my, my
• 14:54
  parents have been telling me about like, you know, what we
• 14:56
  had to do to like, make sure that we could afford camp for
• 14:59
  you. And I'm like, I didn't or
• 15:00
  thought about it as a kid that's supposed to come out as a kid
• 15:03
  now. It's like, thanks.
• 15:05
  Thanks. Thanks for that.
• 15:06
  Did either of you go to camp when you were young?
• 15:08
  Were you camp people? Oh yes.
• 15:12
  No what? Kind of camp.
• 15:13
  Did you go to Jordan? I went to a few of those away
• 15:17
  camps, you know, And for me, I, I went to a camp in a whole
• 15:21
  other province, deep in the woods, cabins, canoeing, that
• 15:24
  whole deal. It was formative.
• 15:26
  It was good. It was really good for me
• 15:28
  socially because I was not the most social kid.
• 15:30
  I I was happy to be inside with my toys and all that stuff.
• 15:34
  My poor parents always like get outside.
• 15:36
  And I really fell in love with nature during that period.
• 15:41
  And so, yeah, happy, happy, nostalgic memories.
• 15:45
  Oh, that's nice. I love that for you.
• 15:48
  Yeah, I did not really go to camp.
• 15:51
  Maybe it maybe a couple of times, but I was very socially
• 15:54
  awkward and I did not care for being around people I didn't
• 15:59
  know. Could just I just would just
• 16:02
  fade into the wallpaper. This was the child I was.
• 16:06
  This is this is, yes, very, this is my formative years explains a
• 16:11
  lot. But yeah, yeah, not so much.
• 16:15
  I was just close with my brother and sister and we just kind of
• 16:18
  hung out all the time. But as a mom, I did because I
• 16:20
  have an only child. I did do a lot send off a lot of
• 16:25
  summer camps. It's kind of it's more of a
• 16:26
  thing now, I think. I think more kids now go to do
• 16:32
  summer campy type things. So you've had to do the thing
• 16:36
  where you, like, put your kid on a bus, you know, or however they
• 16:40
  get to camp and you're like, I just have to be OK with this.
• 16:43
  Yeah, the drought is very difficult.
• 16:45
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 16:46
  And then you're like, woo, I got three weeks of of free time.
• 16:50
  What am I going to do? Chase your tail for a couple
• 16:53
  days and then you? Right.
• 16:57
  And then three weeks, just like, yeah.
• 16:59
  And then they're back. Dive into a project.
• 17:02
  Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure you always.
• 17:04
  We all have lots of projects that we're just waiting for some
• 17:07
  distractions to disappear so we can get into them.
• 17:10
  Yeah. So meanwhile down at Fraggle
• 17:13
  Rock, a cut we see everyone's cleaning up after this.
• 17:17
  The the wind storms have all the dust storms have all, you know,
• 17:20
  finished going through the rock. I like, there's some Doozers
• 17:24
  driving by in a Doozer car and there's an ink spot that's
• 17:28
  trying to feather dust them as they're driving away, which is a
• 17:32
  nice little touch, whoever that is.
• 17:35
  And now that everything's been cleaned up, they are on to more
• 17:38
  pressing matters like Lanford, whose roots have broken through
• 17:41
  his pot. And Moki's using it as a way to
• 17:44
  wistfully talk about her child growing up, which is it's so
• 17:48
  like we're talking earlier about like the maturity of Moki.
• 17:52
  And she is so motherly in this episode in, in in a way that I,
• 17:57
  I feel I don't know about you 2. I see my mother a lot in this.
• 18:01
  She's that kind of mom. That's just like, oh, yeah.
• 18:02
  She like, just like just don't go anywhere.
• 18:04
  Just, you know, just stay a child forever.
• 18:06
  And that's OK. We're just going to that's going
• 18:08
  to be that's going to be our lives from now on.
• 18:10
  Yeah. No, that's not the big problem.
• 18:13
  The big problem is not Lanford. The big problem is these
• 18:15
  radishes that are still gone. And that's a that's a biggie.
• 18:19
  It's a big problem. Cotter Pen has a plan which she
• 18:24
  will tell you. Unfortunately, she is being
• 18:26
  buried alive by Buber because he's sweeping and she's
• 18:30
  underneath a pile of rubble. What?
• 18:31
  What is she actually underneath here, Donna?
• 18:35
  It's that magical stuff that's puppet safe.
• 18:39
  I think our our amazing wranglers know all of these
• 18:42
  special materials like that needs to look like this, but it
• 18:45
  has to be puppet safe. So I'm not exactly sure what it
• 18:48
  is, but I know like the bits of dirt are like tiny bits of cork.
• 18:54
  So this particular 1 I don't recall what it is, but it seemed
• 18:57
  a little dustier than than than our other stuff.
• 19:01
  And I believe that's Kira doing Cotter pin in in this scene
• 19:04
  where where Cotter pin busts out.
• 19:07
  Of the oh, that makes sense. You're a little busy with, with
• 19:10
  with Moki. So that makes that makes sense.
• 19:13
  When, when you guys do stuff like that, is it, do you do ADR
• 19:16
  it afterward or are you throwing your voice?
• 19:21
  It's definitely Kira doing the voice when we're shooting and I
• 19:25
  will either ADR if it's a big scene or often times when we go
• 19:29
  in for coverage. So Cotter pins close up, that's
• 19:32
  generally the the performer performing it.
• 19:37
  So I think on Cotter pins, close-ups, I think that that's
• 19:39
  me or sometimes if I if they were like, are you OK with Kira
• 19:44
  stay? And I'm like sure.
• 19:45
  So I think it's, it's, it's pretty easy.
• 19:47
  But generally they they swap and we swap in and and I'll jump in
• 19:52
  on a close up. Sure, that makes sense.
• 19:56
  So when Kotterpin tells her plan to everybody, I'm going to be
• 20:00
  honest, I am not smart enough to understand any of this.
• 20:03
  She's this is like the most sciency I think that we've
• 20:07
  gotten on Fraggle Rock like in in all of Fraggle Rock them.
• 20:12
  She says they're going to take organic materials from the trash
• 20:15
  heap and they're going to speed up the composting by a tilling
• 20:18
  and aeration system powered by a gorge sized turbine, which
• 20:21
  they're going to use with the hydroponic radish sprouts the
• 20:24
  doosers were growing. And somehow all this is
• 20:28
  radishes. It's like step one science.
• 20:31
  Step 2, question mark, Step 3, profit.
• 20:34
  That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, it's intense.
• 20:37
  Isn't that where the graphics are sort of floating there in
• 20:40
  front as she's describing? Or am I misremember?
• 20:42
  Oh yes, I, I think so. That definitely happens later in
• 20:45
  the episode too. But yeah, we're seeing like a
• 20:48
  Beautiful Mind kind of thing. Just kind of.
• 20:49
  Floating. Yeah.
• 20:50
  I think it's I I don't, I don't know.
• 20:52
  But I wonder if that if the producers made that choice
• 20:54
  because it's so verbal and because we need, you know, kids
• 20:58
  might need a visual of what exactly this means.
• 21:00
  Because I know I needed the visual of what it meant.
• 21:03
  Right, You know what was, You know what was missing?
• 21:05
  There was a shot of the five just staring.
• 21:11
  Just blinking just dead right, because they don't need to
• 21:16
  understand how the science works.
• 21:19
  Like Cotter Pin's got it. Like it's like she knows just
• 21:22
  just you guys do the work. And trust me, there will be
• 21:24
  radishes at the end of the story.
• 21:27
  And everyone's on board, Everyone cheers.
• 21:29
  And I love that Wembley is still chanting like Cotter Pin, Cotter
• 21:33
  Pin. And he's like thrusting his hand
• 21:35
  in the air, like he's doing the dog pound on the Arsenio Hall
• 21:38
  Show. Yes.
• 21:40
  Is that, is that like a like, So what?
• 21:42
  What's in the script for something like that?
• 21:44
  Are you like, does it say that you're like throwing your fist
• 21:46
  in the air? Or is it just like you're
• 21:47
  chanting and you're like, I'm going to put a little spin on
• 21:50
  this to make it visual? No, it's just, it's just a
• 21:52
  Wembley chant. And so I just color it in the
• 21:56
  way that felt right at the time. I just love the idea of little
• 21:59
  awkward Wembley trying to be cool, trying to be fun.
• 22:03
  And it's it's when he's trying, he's the most awkward.
• 22:06
  And to me, that's amusing. Yeah, I love that.
• 22:10
  And Speaking of Wembley being slightly awkward, but there's
• 22:13
  this cute moment here that it feels like like you almost
• 22:17
  recorded it knowing that it might get cut.
• 22:18
  And somehow it ended up in the episode where Wembley pulls
• 22:22
  Boober aside and he's like, hey, do you mind if I bounce
• 22:24
  something off of you? And then he throws a ball at him
• 22:28
  and it's like, thank you. That was hysterical.
• 22:32
  And I don't know what it has to do with anything, but it made me
• 22:35
  laugh. It just I had forgotten like
• 22:37
  when the scene started I was like, oh, is there a like AB
• 22:40
  plot with Wembley here that I don't remember?
• 22:42
  Wembley and Boober And it's like, Nope, he just wants to
• 22:44
  throw a ball at him. Right, well, it was scripted,
• 22:48
  but I think it was cut down a little bit, I feel.
• 22:50
  Like it? Oh, there was supposed to be
• 22:51
  more there. I'm.
• 22:51
  Like I think there was a little more there, but I don't quite
• 22:55
  remember what it was. Maybe more with the ball, maybe
• 22:57
  you know what it probably was. I think it was a more technical
• 23:00
  shot and they just cut it for time.
• 23:03
  But no, that was scripted at just a little moment like we
• 23:05
  used to get. Right.
• 23:07
  Yes, exactly. Yeah.
• 23:09
  I can't imagine what else you would want to add to that story.
• 23:12
  Like, it's so complete. It's got a beginning and a
• 23:14
  middle and an end. It has an emotional arc.
• 23:18
  There's a little literal arc with the ball flying through the
• 23:20
  air. Sorry, dumb.
• 23:26
  In the in the Gorg garden, Junior brings Ma the Gorg Queen
• 23:32
  book, which they're going to start using instead of the Gorg
• 23:34
  King book because the Gorg patriarchy was literally
• 23:38
  destroying their world. It's a little familiar, isn't
• 23:42
  it? Yeah, Gobo and Moki ask Queen Ma
• 23:47
  for help, and she is all too happy to assist.
• 23:50
  And she's come such a long way from being, like, just
• 23:53
  irrationally afraid of Fraggles. And now she's like, oh, hey,
• 23:55
  Fraggles. Yeah.
• 23:56
  You want us to build a wind turbine?
• 23:58
  Sure. Let's get to work.
• 24:00
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:01
  I love this for her. Me too.
• 24:03
  She's a good queen. Yeah, we're looking at the Queen
• 24:06
  book now. That's right.
• 24:07
  And the Queen book says do whatever the Fraggles ask you to
• 24:11
  do. The queen book also says that
• 24:16
  there's a special plant that can help put the nutrients back in
• 24:18
  the soil. And she shows them a picture and
• 24:22
  the plant looks shockingly like Lanford.
• 24:26
  And I love that immediately Lanford is like giving jazz
• 24:28
  hands like he's he's excited about being in a book.
• 24:32
  He's like I'm so. Excited, I know he gets to save
• 24:35
  the day. Moki has reservations here.
• 24:40
  Yeah. Yeah, that's great.
• 24:45
  Yeah, that was a really fun scene.
• 24:47
  And I seem to recall that we, I mean, sometimes we were able to
• 24:51
  shoot those scenes at the same time.
• 24:55
  So Johnny and I and Ingrid are in the blue cube and Amy's out
• 25:01
  there in the Gorg's garden and they, you know, are able to do
• 25:04
  some layering. So I, I seem to recall we shot
• 25:07
  that in real time, which is always exciting when we're able
• 25:11
  to do that. Yeah.
• 25:15
  And that's. The same, I love that you guys
• 25:16
  could do that. Like every time you bring it up,
• 25:18
  it's like God, that adds it adds so much to the dialogue and to
• 25:21
  the character that you can really look at each other,
• 25:24
  really riff off each other. If if if you if you need to.
• 25:28
  Yeah, yeah. We love that.
• 25:29
  It's, it's, it's been really, it's been really wonderful for
• 25:33
  us. I'm sure back at the Great Hall,
• 25:38
  Red seems to be she's kind of taking charge a little bit at
• 25:40
  first of the construction of this turbine.
• 25:44
  But all the instructions are in this Doozer sized font.
• 25:48
  And but Red claims to have the best eyes around.
• 25:51
  And there's this great shot of her holding the the instructions
• 25:56
  from her perspective. So you can see her holding them.
• 25:58
  You see her little feet underneath and the focus is kind
• 26:01
  of coming in and out because she's trying to focus her eyes.
• 26:04
  What a great shot that is. I don't think we've ever seen
• 26:06
  anything like like that kind of POV shot on Fraggle Rock.
• 26:09
  Yeah, I remember that was a big, that was a big deal that day.
• 26:13
  Do you remember that, Jordy? I think I was in and out that
• 26:15
  day when they were doing that scene.
• 26:18
  It it took it took a minute to set it up.
• 26:22
  Vaguely I I barely remember anything.
• 26:26
  These are so hard for me. So did they, is that really like
• 26:31
  shot down? Like is the camera above
• 26:33
  shooting down or did you kind of cheat it so that you could just
• 26:37
  get the shot? However, you guys could hold the
• 26:39
  puppet, right? It is a top down because one of
• 26:41
  our, our, a camera is on a crane or a jib.
• 26:45
  So it is literally top down. So there's little Red's feet and
• 26:48
  hands and I don't know if we see her hair, but sometimes, you
• 26:52
  know, we just take parts of puppets, whatever's necessary.
• 26:55
  And I seem to recall there was an issue with the size and they
• 26:58
  had to run and reprint the blueprints really quick.
• 27:02
  Do you remember that? You don't.
• 27:03
  Why am I asking you? You don't remember?
• 27:07
  But they were like, I think it's too big or something like that.
• 27:10
  So they ended up changing the size.
• 27:11
  But but yes, it's literally puppet hands.
• 27:15
  Puppet feet and you know, in the feed are not static, even though
• 27:19
  they may be you. Everything has to be moving
• 27:21
  slightly or you know, keeping alive.
• 27:24
  But yeah, top down. And then you mentioned them
• 27:28
  having to reprint the the directions.
• 27:31
  Do you happen to recall like is it, Is it?
• 27:33
  Is there something actually written there or is it English?
• 27:38
  I don't know. I just remember there being a
• 27:40
  thing and I'm maybe totally. Do you remember that at all,
• 27:44
  Jordan? No.
• 27:47
  No, I I feel like I remember better than the two of you on
• 27:51
  this one. I wasn't even there.
• 27:53
  Well, so it's what's interesting, like the scene just
• 27:55
  before this, we have, you know, Ma showing off her book and it's
• 27:59
  clear the Gorgs probably don't have a written language.
• 28:02
  They're they they're also communicating via pictures.
• 28:04
  We've seen this with the Fraggles many, many times
• 28:07
  throughout the series and the old series.
• 28:09
  But but the doosers do have a written language and maybe they
• 28:13
  have to because it's, you know, they're so science and
• 28:16
  architecture based. But we don't often see those
• 28:20
  worlds kind of collide where they're using words to to
• 28:25
  explain something on a page. And I guess Red is just supposed
• 28:28
  to know what that means because she can maybe read, but maybe
• 28:32
  not, We don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
• 28:35
  And I, I, sadly, Joe, I did not get a good enough look at the
• 28:39
  blueprints to let you know if it was an actual language or just
• 28:42
  markings or drawings. I, I I don't know.
• 28:47
  That's perfectly OK. But I do know it was top down.
• 28:52
  It's actually the most important thing, as much as I want to know
• 28:56
  more about like dues or lore and the history of, you know, like,
• 29:00
  at what point did they pick up a, a language or an alphabet?
• 29:03
  From whom? From what culture that's so
• 29:06
  interesting to four people in this world, but maybe not to the
• 29:10
  actual production crew of Fraggle Rock?
• 29:13
  Maybe someone from marketing will hear this will have those
• 29:16
  are dictionaries and Lanford dictionaries coming out within
• 29:19
  the next year. Yes, give it to me.
• 29:23
  Brett is equally confused by all this because she's like, forget
• 29:26
  it, let's just start hammering stuff.
• 29:28
  And I'm like, I get it. I would get confused and be
• 29:30
  like, I have, I have a hammer. Like this seems like a problem.
• 29:33
  That's a nail, so let's go for it.
• 29:37
  Buber's taking a different approach.
• 29:38
  He just wants to sort all the pieces, count them, sand off the
• 29:41
  edges, decontaminate, recount and then soup time.
• 29:46
  And Wembley seems like he's only really interested in choosing a
• 29:51
  song to sing while they work. That's very Wembley.
• 29:53
  I like that. Also interesting that like
• 29:56
  there's so much that needs to be done.
• 29:57
  Again, I feel like this is part of the evolution of Wembley is
• 30:01
  the easy thing would be Wembley can't decide what to do.
• 30:05
  But instead Wembley is like, it seems like he knows exactly what
• 30:08
  he wants to do. He's just, you know, bringing
• 30:11
  music into the world. That's what Wembley does.
• 30:13
  That's what all the Fraggles do. And like, throughout this whole
• 30:17
  episode, as Wembley's doing this, there's all these
• 30:19
  different little songs or little tunes that he's humming.
• 30:23
  Did you just make these up on the spot, Jordan?
• 30:27
  Yes, and I gave many different interpretations.
• 30:30
  And then in Adri gave many more takes and they used, hey, it's
• 30:36
  their show. They used what they wanted to
• 30:38
  use. But I don't know, man, I gave
• 30:40
  some real doozies. There was one, there was one,
• 30:44
  there was one song that was all parts.
• 30:46
  I'm telling you, I'm not kidding.
• 30:51
  When are we going to get the soundtrack to Wembley's
• 30:54
  architecture songs? Maybe Lakeshore will release a a
• 31:01
  single vinyl. Yeah.
• 31:03
  Oh, on vinyl, Yes. Yeah.
• 31:06
  Or you don't forget it. Let's do it on cassette.
• 31:10
  A track. Come on, keep going.
• 31:11
  Keep going, keep going. The architect Dozer sees that
• 31:19
  Moki's having this big emotional reaction to the Lanford
• 31:22
  situation, and he says he can relate.
• 31:24
  He's having a hard time letting go of his strawberry hat.
• 31:27
  He wants to keep wearing it, but what will the boss think?
• 31:30
  And Connerpin reminds him that he's the boss, and he's like,
• 31:33
  hey guys, the boss says it's OK. I love that.
• 31:36
  And it feels so much like John Tartaglia's actual creative
• 31:40
  process of but what what we can't do this thing on Fraggle
• 31:44
  Rock? And then someone was like, John,
• 31:46
  you're you're in charge. And he goes, oh, great, So it's
• 31:49
  done. The boss says it's OK the.
• 31:52
  The architect and Johnny are very similar.
• 31:57
  They both have very colorful professional pasts working with
• 32:02
  celebrities. That too.
• 32:04
  Yep. Yep, and talking about it.
• 32:07
  Just kidding. And they both look great in
• 32:12
  strawberry hats. Yeah.
• 32:14
  Yeah, I believe that. Gobo confronts Moki in her cave
• 32:21
  about how she's feeling about this whole Lanford situation.
• 32:24
  And she's like, Lanford isn't ready for such a big change.
• 32:27
  He's just a baby. And there's this great shot of
• 32:31
  Lanford drinking out of a water pot and then pouring it all over
• 32:35
  himself. Yes, like the original, the
• 32:38
  original script was him shaving, shaving with one and holding a a
• 32:45
  little mirror with the other. I think that's what the
• 32:48
  original. So instead they have him like
• 32:49
  sipping what appears to be coffee and and then, yeah,
• 32:53
  watering himself. But the, the yeah, the, the, the
• 32:58
  intent is still there. And we see the beginning of Moki
• 33:01
  kind of losing it, her slow descent into into madness for
• 33:08
  this episode. It's so great.
• 33:11
  And so I'm glad you mentioned the coffee thing because I was
• 33:14
  looking at the scene trying to figure out like, is it how are
• 33:19
  we showing that this is Lanford showing off his his new found
• 33:23
  maturity? Because it could that could go
• 33:26
  either way where he's just taking a drink and then pouring
• 33:28
  water all over himself. That's something a child would
• 33:31
  do, but making it? No, it's coffee.
• 33:34
  That makes a bit more sense. The the shaving thing would have
• 33:36
  been hysterical though. I'm a little disappointed that
• 33:38
  you guys didn't go for it. Yeah, I'm not sure why.
• 33:40
  I think, you know, it could be a safety thing they don't want.
• 33:44
  Sure. Yeah, yeah, razors.
• 33:46
  And all that's Razor and yeah. Yeah, lame.
• 33:50
  But I want to see Lanford like in shaving cream, like I'll on
• 33:54
  his. Well, I guess would be the
• 33:56
  bottom half of his head. Yeah, that would have been
• 33:59
  pretty. That's a shave.
• 34:01
  Yeah, right. I when I shave, I was just going
• 34:05
  to say that like when I shave, I I'm putting on my lather.
• 34:08
  Yeah, I think about those soap suds that Kermit's shaving in
• 34:10
  the Great Muppet Caper, and he says, what is it?
• 34:15
  If I had whiskers, I guess I'd have to use a blade.
• 34:18
  Yeah, I guess I'd have. To go so great.
• 34:22
  So Moki has a great idea. She runs off and while she's
• 34:24
  gone, Measure Dooser pops in and takes the boulder that Lanford
• 34:29
  sitting on a way for their construction and Lanford along
• 34:32
  for the ride. So when Moki returns, he's gone,
• 34:36
  but she comes back with a giant pot with Pogie inside, dressed
• 34:41
  as a plant with their arms straight up holding holding
• 34:44
  leaves. What a great visual this is.
• 34:49
  This was one of my absolute favorite moments in the whole
• 34:52
  season, I have to say, and that Kanye and Pogi were taking it so
• 34:58
  very seriously. Pogi is so, so into this role
• 35:02
  and staring straight ahead and occasionally would peek down and
• 35:05
  then, you know, snap right back into oh so, so funny.
• 35:12
  I love that. I kind of wish, I know we'll get
• 35:15
  more Pogi in a little bit, but I kind of wish we got to see more
• 35:17
  of them as a plant. What, what else would Pogi do as
• 35:19
  a plant? Just to, to like, try to trick
• 35:22
  Gobo into being like, no, no, I'm a I'm a real plant, Moki
• 35:24
  says. I'm a plant, so I'm a plant.
• 35:27
  I. Don't know.
• 35:27
  I think he would just he would literally.
• 35:30
  I think if he wasn't released he would stand there for weeks,
• 35:33
  probably being a plant. I'm a plant.
• 35:36
  Yeah, no, I think he would. Take it so seriously that he
• 35:40
  would. Just I think you're right, Poki
• 35:42
  is just game. I love how game they are.
• 35:44
  Just like whatever you guys want to do, I'm in.
• 35:46
  It's pogey in the Gorg's garden. The turbine is coming together.
• 35:52
  Buber is going over the details of the directions.
• 35:56
  Red is hammering away at nothing.
• 35:58
  Wembley is humming along. And what I what I love here is
• 36:01
  that we see Ma in the background and she's getting her hands
• 36:04
  dirty and she's hammering away as well because as the Queen,
• 36:07
  she could easily be like, OK, I'm I'm in charge.
• 36:10
  They're like, I'm going to be the chief here and make sure
• 36:12
  that you're doing your job and you're working away and I'll sit
• 36:15
  in my chair and and supervise. But Nope, she's she's in there
• 36:19
  as well, which I guess is also really like that's, that's
• 36:24
  speaks a lot to what you all do on Fraggle Rock.
• 36:28
  And even before that, the the work ethic of Jim Henson where
• 36:32
  it's like he like wouldn't ask people to do anything that he
• 36:35
  wouldn't do himself. You know, just getting in there
• 36:36
  with a puppet and doing something silly in the
• 36:38
  background or learning some complicated choreography or
• 36:41
  whatever it is. It's like, yeah, we're all
• 36:43
  working together for the greater good.
• 36:46
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 36:48
  And that's, wouldn't you say, Jordy?
• 36:50
  We all got called in at different times to to help out
• 36:55
  and, you know, they try to spread it all around, but but
• 37:00
  yeah, it was always a pleasure. And, and yeah, everyone just
• 37:03
  leaps up. There was no big attitudes about
• 37:05
  it. Everyone just really jumped in
• 37:09
  and lend a hand. Yes, it's a great feeling.
• 37:12
  I think I said before in one of our talks, Joe, it's an
• 37:16
  emotional thing to service another performance, especially
• 37:19
  those big group days. I don't know what it is.
• 37:21
  It's just everyone doing their little part and bringing
• 37:23
  together just this one idea. It's it's powerful.
• 37:28
  I don't mean to sound over traumatic, but I mean, it is a
• 37:31
  great feeling. So it's it's addictive.
• 37:33
  You want to do it? Yeah.
• 37:36
  To evade yourself. That that feeling of we're all
• 37:39
  in this together and you know, like if the boss is available
• 37:47
  and there's a pup, a free puppet or someone needs help with an
• 37:49
  arm, like there's no reason they're not jumping in as well
• 37:53
  or just grabbing a hammer and hammering away at nothing.
• 37:57
  As long as they're looking busy. Maybe that's that's the
• 38:00
  important thing. So Cotter pin flies in on her
• 38:05
  jet pack. I love when the doosers are
• 38:07
  using their jet packs. I think it's adorable.
• 38:09
  And she says that she hopes that all the Fraggles are on the same
• 38:12
  page here. And this is where we get our
• 38:15
  first song of the episode. It is called Same Page.
• 38:18
  And it's a rap, which is rare for Fraggle Rock to get a real
• 38:21
  rap song. And I love the visual of this
• 38:26
  one 'cause it's mostly just red Boober and Wembley dancing in
• 38:29
  front of a green screen, which is, you know, turned into a
• 38:31
  virtual background for the episode.
• 38:34
  And these dances are incredible. Like the, the well, can you, can
• 38:39
  you tell me a little bit about how they came together?
• 38:41
  Because we've talked on this podcast a little bit about, you
• 38:44
  know, when there's big group choreography and Johnny's coming
• 38:47
  in and telling everyone what to do and how to sway and what's
• 38:49
  going to happen. But these are, it's a different
• 38:52
  kind of choreography because you probably have several people on
• 38:55
  each puppet to create, you know, create a move.
• 38:57
  So how did how did they come together?
• 39:01
  Well, those for me anyway. It was a team of three, Kanye,
• 39:04
  Ingrid and myself, and one of the first things Johnny said was
• 39:09
  for Wembley's piece, 90s music video.
• 39:14
  Great hip hop or something. I'm I'm so cool but and that,
• 39:20
  but that's all he that's all he needed to say.
• 39:22
  I was like, oh, OK, OK. And Kanye threw in some great
• 39:25
  ideas and Ingy threw in some great ideas and just hitting
• 39:29
  every beat in that song with something, you know, that's how
• 39:32
  it should go. Oh, you know, all of that, all
• 39:34
  that stuff. It was, it was really fun.
• 39:36
  Let me think. I think Ingy was on Kanye was on
• 39:40
  legs and I think Ingy was on right arm.
• 39:44
  God, I'm so bad at this. I I think that's it.
• 39:47
  And it was just so much fun because, you know, the song was
• 39:51
  so fast and there's so much going on and he's got this giant
• 39:54
  hat on that's pushing his eyeballs down into his head.
• 39:57
  So I'm all. Right, because they're all
• 39:58
  wearing their construction helmets.
• 40:00
  Yeah. That's right, that's right.
• 40:02
  So fighting against that while trying to get some of these
• 40:05
  wacky movements going was a bit of a challenge.
• 40:07
  But I love the way it came out, especially with the the punches,
• 40:10
  the camera punching in and out and Oh my God, it's glorious.
• 40:14
  That was very like 90s rap that like get really close to the
• 40:17
  camera thing. Yeah, I that was the one thing I
• 40:20
  recognized from from the era. That's a great number.
• 40:25
  I have to say that I I, you know, just didn't.
• 40:28
  I was very lightly involved in that number.
• 40:31
  I think Johnny and I were shooting a lot of mossy cave
• 40:34
  stuff simultaneously because, you know, the set was a three
• 40:37
  ring circus. We always had multiple units
• 40:38
  going at the same time, but seeing same page.
• 40:42
  The the end result of it was just like such a highlight and
• 40:47
  yeah, fantastic, excellent job, Jordy.
• 40:51
  Oh, by the way, I believe Johnny did direct those sequences.
• 40:56
  We did so, So yeah. So that was what I was kind of
• 41:00
  curious about is like with the the choreography, it sounds like
• 41:03
  he kind of gave you the three of you notes on like here's the
• 41:07
  vibe we're going for. And you kind of choreographed
• 41:09
  the scene. But was he like jumping in to be
• 41:12
  like, OK, actually what would make it better is if like you
• 41:14
  moved your arms in this way or you do this kind of dance move?
• 41:17
  Or was it just like, no, you got you got it, you made you made
• 41:20
  Wembley look like he's actually dancing like a real person.
• 41:24
  Great. Let's.
• 41:24
  Go Johnny gives great notes. You know, I think that that
• 41:27
  whole sequence was like it became a second unit thing
• 41:30
  because the show is insane. The schedule is insane and
• 41:33
  there's so much going on and sometimes people got to jump in
• 41:35
  and take on certain things. And I'm, I'm pretty sure at
• 41:38
  least my section of the video, he took over that and directed
• 41:43
  it so beautifully, gave great little notes here and there.
• 41:47
  But you know, he's, he's crazy like all of us.
• 41:49
  So he also wants to see what you're going to do.
• 41:51
  He wants he wants you to go too far.
• 41:53
  You know, yeah, right. Well, and just to trust you as
• 41:57
  performers like y'all, y'all are professionals.
• 42:00
  You know, you wiggle dolls full for a living and like, let's see
• 42:04
  what you can do if you're not being told exactly what steps to
• 42:07
  take. You know, you never you never
• 42:09
  native. You never feel untrusted by the
• 42:11
  man Ever. Yeah.
• 42:14
  I believe that. So Gobo and Moki go searching
• 42:18
  for Lanford. While they're going through the
• 42:20
  caves, they're passing some cool looking creatures.
• 42:23
  And we've talked on this podcast a bit about some of the the
• 42:26
  puppets that came from old Fraggle Rock that were
• 42:29
  refurbished and being used as background characters here.
• 42:31
  And there was one that I noticed that I don't think I've ever
• 42:34
  seen before. I had to go searching for it on
• 42:36
  Muppet Wiki. Muppet Wiki just calls it a
• 42:38
  snake, but it's like this purple snake with these bulgy eyes.
• 42:43
  If you know the Muppet character Shaky Sanchez, kind of like his
• 42:46
  face kind of looks like him. And apparently it appeared in
• 42:50
  one episode of the original series scared silly.
• 42:53
  And I think it's made two or three appearances here on Back
• 42:55
  to the rock. So we I guess the question here
• 43:01
  would be. I can already tell we can't help
• 43:03
  you, but go ahead. No, I mean, well, OK, so so if
• 43:06
  you're picking up a character like this, like if you're if
• 43:08
  you're like looking at the table, like they say, like pick
• 43:10
  some some weird looking characters to fill the
• 43:12
  background. Do they have names or you just
• 43:16
  like that one looks creepy. Let's do it.
• 43:18
  That's fun. I think they are, they are.
• 43:24
  They're chose. The puppets are chosen.
• 43:26
  So it's not, I don't think it's random.
• 43:28
  I think they know what puppet is going to go where for,
• 43:32
  especially for cave creatures, because it's all about where the
• 43:35
  camera is, making sure it's seen and making sure the puppeteer is
• 43:38
  safe behind the set and all that stuff.
• 43:40
  So I think there is a little more thought into it rather than
• 43:45
  just a table full of puppets and pick up something that that is
• 43:48
  true on some other jobs. And certainly for the Gaggle
• 43:50
  Fraggle as it is, Go go grab a Gaggle Fraggle and come on back.
• 43:55
  But for this one, yeah, but it. But do they have names?
• 43:59
  They do. Do I know them?
• 44:01
  I do not. All right, we'll get to the
• 44:04
  bottom of that one. We'll we'll we'll figure that
• 44:06
  one out. Hey, that's OK.
• 44:08
  And then do you happen to know are there more of these strange
• 44:15
  creature puppets from the original series that maybe
• 44:17
  haven't made their Back to the Rock debut yet?
• 44:21
  I would assume so. I would just imagine it depends
• 44:24
  on the states that they're in and how much time and and money
• 44:30
  it would take to refurbish them. I think a lot of it is, is, are
• 44:34
  they, are they camera ready? Are they, you know, do they fit
• 44:38
  into the new, this new world? Right.
• 44:42
  And yeah, they'll, I think they'll pull as much from the
• 44:44
  original series as they can. I mean, why not?
• 44:48
  Sure, already made already made puppets.
• 44:51
  It's just such a specific Easter egg, if we can even call them
• 44:55
  Easter egg, that I don't know many people who would reckon it
• 44:58
  would be like, oh, that's the snake from the episode.
• 45:01
  Scared silly that it's it doesn't even have a name.
• 45:04
  Like it's just like this thing that we saw once 40 some years
• 45:07
  ago. I'm kind of fascinated by that
• 45:11
  idea that like, maybe they're like making a reference for
• 45:15
  again, for for four people. But maybe I'm one of those
• 45:18
  people. So thanks, Henson, you're giving
• 45:22
  me this. The Fraggle Snake Gobo and Moki
• 45:27
  find a set of muddy footprints and Moki's like, oh, that must
• 45:31
  be from Lanford, which is such a weird thing to say because
• 45:34
  Lanford doesn't have feet. You.
• 45:36
  Know it's just hope. It's just blind hope at this
• 45:39
  point, Joe. A little desperate blind hope.
• 45:42
  Naturally. But no, it's you know who does
• 45:46
  have feet? It's Pokey.
• 45:46
  It's Pokey's footprints, and they have climbed a wall so they
• 45:50
  wouldn't track mud into the Great Hall, which is also a cool
• 45:53
  visual that Pogey is just kind of like splayed in the corner,
• 45:56
  like holding on for dear life. But this is this upcoming
• 46:01
  moment. Here is definitely my favorite
• 46:03
  moment of the episode where Pogey runs into little Rago and
• 46:08
  they have a little conversation and it sounds like so it sounds
• 46:12
  like for like if I got it correctly, Lil Raggle.
• 46:15
  As they're walking away, he goes, oh, what time did you get
• 46:17
  home last night? Pokey goes rutabaga.
• 46:23
  I don't know if I'm hearing that right or not.
• 46:25
  The subtitles did not help, but I that.
• 46:28
  Is what it sounds like. Yeah, that that that they say
• 46:30
  rutabaga. I rewound that four times to
• 46:34
  watch it over and over again. That just made me laugh like
• 46:36
  nothing else. They may be saying rutabaga.
• 46:39
  I wonder if it's like a a peas and carrots kind of just keep
• 46:42
  the mouth moving kind of thing. But sure.
• 46:44
  But maybe you know what, maybe that's pogies time.
• 46:48
  Their their time is in vegetables.
• 46:50
  So. It could be.
• 46:52
  I mean, it really seems like time is not a thing in Fraggle
• 46:55
  Rock. You know, it's like, what?
• 46:56
  They have a bedtime, They have to show up at work at a certain
• 46:58
  time. No, no, no.
• 46:59
  Like, time is meaningless. Holidays whenever you want.
• 47:03
  Yeah. No, there's no dates.
• 47:04
  There's no clocks. Forget it.
• 47:07
  But this also convinced me we need a pogy little rag O episode
• 47:12
  if if we get a season 3 because how great would this be?
• 47:15
  Their buddies? They're just hanging around in
• 47:18
  the caves. Doesn't little rag O call a pogy
• 47:21
  my dude in this? Particular scene, yes.
• 47:25
  My dude, I think that's Ingrid. I I don't think that was
• 47:28
  scripted. I'm not sure.
• 47:30
  That's great. And Ingrid told us, not that
• 47:33
  you're going to have any information on this, but like
• 47:35
  Ingrid kind of hinted that that there might be more to Lorago
• 47:40
  that will be revealed at some future point.
• 47:42
  And just I just want to know, I want to see that.
• 47:45
  I'll see it so bad. Yeah, we all do, Joe.
• 47:49
  We all do. Good, let's make it happen.
• 47:53
  Speaking of Ingy, I just remembered she was on legs.
• 47:57
  Kanye was on right arm in the rap video.
• 47:59
  Ha, thank you. You did it.
• 48:01
  Hang on. That was.
• 48:04
  Going to bother me for the whole episode.
• 48:08
  I was. Going to wake up at 3:00 AM like
• 48:09
  Joe Joe, I got it. Anyhow, I would love to get a
• 48:15
  text from you that's just like Inky was on legs and then just
• 48:19
  I'll assume I knew what that meant.
• 48:24
  So Moki, she trips and falls and into this pit looks like a
• 48:30
  Cliff, like a bottomless pit. Let's.
• 48:33
  Talk for a second about that shot.
• 48:35
  Which is one of my great. Shots.
• 48:37
  I may have described this to you already, Joe.
• 48:39
  That shot was awesome. So JJ Johnson is directing.
• 48:43
  He was our very first director in season 1 and he ended up
• 48:46
  being our last director in season 2, which is which is a
• 48:48
  cool, cool, full circle thing. But so the the they're using the
• 48:54
  crane and that's it. That's the three Moki shot where
• 48:58
  it's here as Moki saying, maybe he went this way.
• 49:01
  Lanford And then you cross this pillar and you see a woo and you
• 49:06
  see a the stunt monkey go whoosh, which is Ben Durocher.
• 49:10
  And then I'm attached to the Moki that's attached to the vine
• 49:14
  and and swinging as the camera arcs over and tilts down.
• 49:19
  And then it becomes a top down on over Gobo on to Moki dangling
• 49:24
  from the root, which I thought was just such an exciting shot
• 49:28
  with three different versions of this puppet.
• 49:31
  And they I was like, there's no way they're going to get this
• 49:33
  all in one. And they did.
• 49:35
  And I was wow, you guys, this is I just was one of those moments
• 49:39
  where it's like everyone's just firing on all cylinders.
• 49:42
  Puppeteers timing was perfect and the camera team's timing was
• 49:46
  perfect. It was so exciting.
• 49:48
  And they're, you know, here with with someone else, I think maybe
• 49:53
  or or on their own. And then Ben and then I was down
• 49:56
  there in blue with Amy and Andy, I think, doing full body mochi
• 50:02
  swinging from a but anyway, it was just an awesome moment of
• 50:05
  Dang. There's some just fine fine
• 50:08
  camera work on the show. And we just knew it was a
• 50:11
  trailer moment. Absolutely, and this is exactly
• 50:15
  why Fraggle Rock stands above most other current puppet stuff,
• 50:21
  because you guys are willing to go the extra mile.
• 50:24
  There's no reason you had to do that, but it added such a sense
• 50:29
  of realism and also like this this like cinematic feel to what
• 50:32
  you're creating. Like it could have been just
• 50:34
  Moki jumps out of frame and then cut to she's hanging from the
• 50:38
  from the vine. And that would have been fine
• 50:39
  and no one would have questioned it.
• 50:41
  But again, like going the extra mile.
• 50:45
  There's a phrase in film making, and I'm going to get this wrong.
• 50:48
  I think it's called tapping the lights or tapping the chandelier
• 50:52
  or something like that. And it's a reference to Who
• 50:54
  Framed Roger Rabbit. There's a scene where they're
• 50:58
  hiding out in the bar, like behind the wall, if you remember
• 51:01
  the movie, and Eddie and Rodger are handcuffed together.
• 51:07
  And as they go into the room, Roger's head hits the lamp
• 51:11
  that's and starts hanging from the ceiling and it starts
• 51:14
  swinging back and forth. And the if, if you're, if you
• 51:17
  know anything about animation, you know how impossible that is
• 51:21
  to show the shadows moving around Rodger because the light
• 51:25
  is constantly moving. And it was one of those things
• 51:28
  were like, you would never know if you didn't know.
• 51:30
  And it just adds so much to the realism.
• 51:33
  You don't have to do it, but sometimes you got to tap the
• 51:35
  light and really show that, like we're willing to make this thing
• 51:39
  look real and to show that like, like, look what we can do.
• 51:45
  And I love that. I love, there's so much of that
• 51:47
  throughout this whole series that you guys are doing.
• 51:49
  I I'm eating it up. Good, I googled it.
• 51:54
  I just googled it. It's called bumping the lamp.
• 51:56
  Bumping the lamp. OK, I was close.
• 51:58
  Thank you for Googling that. Good reference dude, that's a
• 52:00
  great reference. Yeah, yeah.
• 52:04
  Wow. And Speaking of references,
• 52:05
  there's so in this in the moment when Moki's hanging from from
• 52:11
  the root with one hand and holding onto the pot with the
• 52:13
  other hand. And Gobo, first of all, Gobo
• 52:16
  says, use 2 hands. And Moki says, well, they hold
• 52:19
  the pot with two hands. I'll fall, which I think it's
• 52:22
  hysterical, but, you know, so basically he's like, give me
• 52:26
  your hand. And she's not willing to let go
• 52:29
  with the other hand. And this is exactly that scene
• 52:31
  from Indiana Jones and Last Crusade where Elsa is hanging
• 52:35
  out. She can't let go.
• 52:36
  She can almost reach the grail. And he's like, give me your
• 52:39
  hand, honey. I can't hold John.
• 52:41
  Her glove falls and slips out. And what a great scene.
• 52:44
  I love that movie. Yeah, you're just referencing
• 52:47
  all the 80s movies unintentionally.
• 52:48
  I like you, Joe. This is how my brain works is
• 52:53
  just in film metaphor. That's how Jordan's brain works
• 52:57
  too. Very much.
• 53:00
  Yeah, yeah, not surprised because only the best people
• 53:04
  think about 80s movies all the time and how it relates to
• 53:08
  Fraggle Rock. Best people, huh?
• 53:12
  OK. Yeah, that's us, You and me.
• 53:14
  So yeah, Moki decides to let it go.
• 53:17
  She drops the pot. She grabs Goebo's tail.
• 53:19
  She could be lifted back up. Now.
• 53:20
  This whole scene here, the, the emotions that are going through
• 53:25
  Moki's head and the way that she's conveying them of like
• 53:29
  feeling like it's time for me to let go and there's a sadness and
• 53:32
  a gratitude toward it. And then immediately flipping
• 53:34
  to, oh, I'll just make a new pot.
• 53:37
  Donna, what, what you're doing here is so brilliant.
• 53:40
  This is maybe this might be my favorite Moki performance that
• 53:44
  you've done in the on the whole series.
• 53:46
  It's I, I'm, I, I don't know how to how else to explain just how
• 53:51
  I'm impressed I am by what you're bringing to her character
• 53:54
  here. And like, there is a moment
• 53:56
  where like, like my heart breaks for her here.
• 53:59
  And like, this could have been the end of of her arc because
• 54:02
  she's learned her lesson. But then, Nope, back-to-back to
• 54:04
  normal. Here we go.
• 54:06
  Yeah. I think it's it is a little.
• 54:08
  Thank you for that. It's it is a bit of she kind of
• 54:12
  goes a little mad in this episode.
• 54:16
  And I, I was worried that it was like, oh gosh, is, is her going
• 54:19
  at this high RPM going to just get really annoying or hard on
• 54:25
  the ear or something. But you kind of just got to cast
• 54:28
  that aside and and go there and know then it's going to pay off
• 54:32
  in the end. But she's just, you know, she
• 54:36
  hasn't, she's not there yet and she gets there in the next
• 54:42
  scene. But but it was a bit, it was a
• 54:44
  bit tough, but, but I, I can relate and I'll I'll elaborate
• 54:49
  when we talk about the next scene.
• 54:51
  Oh, OK, Thank you for that. Yeah, of course.
• 54:53
  Yeah. So Gobo and Moki continue their
• 54:56
  search through the Gorg's garden.
• 54:58
  Another amazing shot here where we're seeing the two of them
• 55:03
  walking from above. A straight down shot.
• 55:06
  How the heck did you do this? Where are you?
• 55:10
  We should be able to see. It so happy, I was so happy with
• 55:13
  how that turned out. I think that was one of the end
• 55:16
  of the day shots we had done like all of that cave stuff, we
• 55:19
  were wiped. And then we have to do this
• 55:22
  super technical scene and I, I think everyone was really
• 55:26
  rushing and we had this like long plank, almost like a
• 55:29
  balance beam, if you can imagine.
• 55:32
  And they're kind of in line. I I seem to think, and I think I
• 55:36
  remember Andy was doing Moki's feet and I gosh, I don't
• 55:42
  remember, I'm sure Kira was there, but yeah, it just worked
• 55:46
  out. And it's when you're in blue,
• 55:48
  you don't quite know where all you are in terms of like the
• 55:53
  Gorgs are over here, this is over here.
• 55:55
  And so JJ was there going, OK, when you hear a noise, it has to
• 55:58
  be over here at like 11:00 or something.
• 56:01
  We go, OK. And then you try to make it like
• 56:04
  look like you're running in that direction.
• 56:06
  So and I think we did have the the layer in.
• 56:11
  So we did have see this sort of leaves on the ground and then it
• 56:13
  was like, OK, great, that's helpful.
• 56:15
  And then lining up the balance beam to where the path and the
• 56:19
  leaves is. So it's quite, you know, it's
• 56:21
  quite complex. But I think like, like that
• 56:24
  crane shot that I mentioned earlier, it was a super
• 56:27
  complicated shot that we ended up getting in like 4 takes.
• 56:32
  It just was one of those things that worked out and I was like,
• 56:35
  oh, it really is some of the best full body stuff.
• 56:38
  I think was that crazy top down shot.
• 56:41
  I just I'm so proud of of all the full body stuff that we did
• 56:45
  in this episode. Between the same page and little
• 56:49
  shots like this and Red looking at the Prince, I just, it was
• 56:52
  just very exciting, I thought. So great.
• 56:56
  And, and a good reminder that Fraggles have feet, you know,
• 56:59
  like they're, they have whole bodies.
• 57:01
  Sometimes you just need to remember like, oh, right, that's
• 57:03
  not just, you know, torso up, like they're, they're, they're
• 57:07
  real. I mean no.
• 57:08
  No feet like no feet like Fraggle feet.
• 57:11
  Exactly they're. Just too cute.
• 57:13
  They really are. So they find Lanford.
• 57:17
  He's already been planted in the Gorg's garden, and Moki notices
• 57:21
  how happy he is and how grown up he looks.
• 57:24
  And so we've talked on this podcast a little bit about there
• 57:30
  was some stuff that got cut that kind of showed Lanford like
• 57:35
  growing and evolving throughout the season, kind of building up
• 57:37
  to this point. And it's fine.
• 57:41
  Like, we didn't need it. Obviously we still got the
• 57:43
  point. But like in this moment, Lanford
• 57:47
  does look large, like like he is actually an adult.
• 57:51
  Has he been getting bigger throughout the season or has he
• 57:54
  been kind of changing in that way throughout the season from
• 57:57
  your perspective? Or is it just like, Nope, now
• 58:00
  he's where he has to be. You know, he's, he's found his,
• 58:03
  his next step in his evolution and therefore he's he's grown in
• 58:07
  this episode and not necessarily through the whole season.
• 58:12
  I well, definitely in this episode that I definitely see I,
• 58:16
  I, yeah, I and I think that's some of the genius of, of Ingrid
• 58:23
  and really, you know, he's very confident.
• 58:25
  He's very happy where he is. And yeah, I definitely growth in
• 58:31
  this season that Moki doesn't see or refuses to see and
• 58:36
  refuses to accept. So which is just.
• 58:40
  And then, of course, by the end when she rounds that corner with
• 58:44
  Gobo and then sees him and then it's just undeniable that, you
• 58:49
  know, and then it's, you know, she has that scene.
• 58:52
  And I was really crying in that scene.
• 58:55
  And interestingly, my daughter, my daughter was visiting Seth
• 59:00
  that day and had like just arrived.
• 59:02
  So Veronica was there on set hanging out by the camera.
• 59:09
  So it was, it made it extra, extra special that that Veronica
• 59:14
  was there. And so, yeah.
• 59:17
  And then we went, gosh, we went. So that scene straight into the
• 59:20
  song, we did it pretty much that scene all in one, which is,
• 59:26
  which is tough, but but yeah, we did it.
• 59:30
  And and it's tricky because you know, the the we've talked about
• 59:34
  this before how the set catches. So if Moki's going slowly into
• 59:38
  hug Lanford and it catches on something and then and then goes
• 59:41
  blank and then then we would just say, Oh yeah, we have to
• 59:44
  cut. We have to cut.
• 59:47
  But yeah, so really powerful. And, you know, Johnny wrote this
• 59:52
  episode, of course, and he said he was thinking a lot about me
• 59:56
  and Veronica while he was writing it.
• 59:59
  And because I've known Johnny a while and he was there when I
• 1:00:03
  sent Veronica off to college. And, you know, so we've, we've,
• 1:00:08
  we've grown together and yeah, it's very much letting go of.
• 1:00:14
  It's very much, it's very parental in that you know you
• 1:00:18
  have to let go, you know that time is coming, but you can't
• 1:00:21
  accept it. But you ultimately know it is
• 1:00:23
  the best for them and therefore is the best for you too.
• 1:00:28
  But very hard to accept in the moment so.
• 1:00:33
  It's so method of you to have a child and just so you can do
• 1:00:39
  this episode with the. Appropriate emotions.
• 1:00:41
  I give a lot to my art, Joe. You know there's nothing I won't
• 1:00:44
  give to. My yeah, naturally this this
• 1:00:50
  episode also, as you were talking, reminded me of there's
• 1:00:54
  a movie that's out right now called The Good Robot.
• 1:00:57
  Excuse me, The Wild Robot, The wild Robot.
• 1:00:59
  And I went to see it and it really tackles a lot of the same
• 1:01:04
  themes of kind of, you know, what parenthood looks like and
• 1:01:08
  what letting go looks like in, you know, in, in this very, what
• 1:01:16
  we're trying to say, like in this very like mature way that,
• 1:01:20
  you know, we're letting go, but it's not saying goodbye, but
• 1:01:23
  it's, it's letting your child grow.
• 1:01:26
  And like, what does that mean for the parents?
• 1:01:28
  It's not like you're just your story's over.
• 1:01:30
  It's there's, there's more to who you are.
• 1:01:32
  You can't wait, you. Can grow because of it.
• 1:01:34
  Day before yesterday, I went for a walk with Dan Garza, and his
• 1:01:38
  daughter is 2 weeks older than mine, and he was seeing the
• 1:01:42
  movie that day. He goes, I don't know anything
• 1:01:44
  about it, but I know that. But parents cry when they see
• 1:01:48
  it. I was like he said, I think you
• 1:01:49
  might want to see it. Like, OK, yeah, I can't wait to
• 1:01:53
  see it. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:01:55
  Yes, bring, bring tissues. I really, I mean, I'm not a
• 1:01:58
  parent, but like I got it. I, I, I felt it as well.
• 1:02:01
  Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, as you said, this is
• 1:02:04
  where we get our our second song of the episode.
• 1:02:07
  It's called Lose Your Heart. It's from the original series
• 1:02:09
  episode, Moki and the Minstrels. Mostly this song is kind of the
• 1:02:16
  visuals are a montage of Moki and Lanford moments from
• 1:02:19
  throughout the season which is nice to revisit, especially
• 1:02:22
  their Dirty Dancing move which is still a series highlight for
• 1:02:27
  me. When Gobo was singing before
• 1:02:32
  Moki joins in, it sounds to me like Wembley is harmonizing with
• 1:02:35
  him. Are you singing on the song as
• 1:02:37
  well, Jordan? I don't believe so.
• 1:02:40
  No, it really sounds like it's me.
• 1:02:42
  That's. In the first verse.
• 1:02:44
  Yeah, stick your heart in the hive of the sky.
• 1:02:47
  Wait. Yeah, that's me.
• 1:02:48
  Oh, OK, I just, I. It sounded so much like Wembley
• 1:02:51
  to me. You do a great Wembley
• 1:02:52
  impression. Or just my.
• 1:02:54
  My ears go. Back off.
• 1:02:56
  Yeah. Yeah, I think, 'cause it's low.
• 1:02:59
  For me, the most exciting thing about that singing that song was
• 1:03:03
  that it is in the same key as the original.
• 1:03:07
  Bit of the harmonies are different, a little of the
• 1:03:09
  phrasing is is different. And they wanted to make it sound
• 1:03:12
  a little more modern, so we changed the phrasing a bit.
• 1:03:16
  But listening to the original and hearing, you know, Jim
• 1:03:19
  singing in that exact same key was very just meant a lot.
• 1:03:22
  That's nice. Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  Like you get some. And we were writing a duet with
• 1:03:25
  him a little bit too. That was right at the end of the
• 1:03:28
  schedule, almost, and we were all very sensitive and emotional
• 1:03:31
  and that song came along just punch you right in the gut.
• 1:03:34
  Yeah. I think that was our penultimate
• 1:03:36
  day as a group, wasn't it? I think it, yeah.
• 1:03:39
  You're right. That's it, yeah.
• 1:03:40
  Because the next day we shot, we shot Hope and Socks in that set
• 1:03:45
  and then that and then say goodbye to all of our Calgary
• 1:03:49
  puppeteers. So yeah, it was, it was, it was.
• 1:03:51
  It was a fraught time period, that time period.
• 1:03:55
  Wow, this episode is so full of so many different emotions on on
• 1:04:02
  screen behind the scenes, talking about it now months
• 1:04:05
  later. I mean good God we need a break.
• 1:04:09
  It's exhausting. The the Gorgs are putting the
• 1:04:15
  final pieces of the turbine into place, but they need something
• 1:04:18
  to drop this heavy machinery up. And Pennsylvania has a shocking
• 1:04:23
  moment of growth. And he decides he's going to
• 1:04:26
  give up his Gorg King book. And he puts it right in there
• 1:04:29
  and it's puts it at the right the right heights or whatever it
• 1:04:32
  needs to do. Again, don't understand the art
• 1:04:34
  of the science behind this whole thing.
• 1:04:37
  And it works. And Paula saves the day.
• 1:04:40
  The lesson here that I got was never throw anything away
• 1:04:44
  because you never know when it's going to come in handy.
• 1:04:46
  Oh God. Horde, horde, horde.
• 1:04:51
  That's that's what I'm getting out of this.
• 1:04:53
  Thank you, Fraggle Rock. But yeah, this, this is it's it
• 1:04:59
  felt so much like that that there's a like a the meme of the
• 1:05:04
  guy saying like, God, if the perfect thing would be if I had
• 1:05:07
  like a like a three and 1/4 inch piece of wood that was at a
• 1:05:10
  certain slant. And the dad goes, I know exactly
• 1:05:13
  what you need. He runs to the garage and he
• 1:05:15
  finds, you know, it's like, I held on to this for 20 years and
• 1:05:18
  now like finally put it to use. And that's, that's Paw in this
• 1:05:21
  moment is that's why we've had this book around for so long.
• 1:05:24
  It's the perfect height. Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  Yep. So we're validating these
• 1:05:30
  people. Great, Yes, thank you.
• 1:05:32
  As a hoarder myself, I thank you for validating me.
• 1:05:36
  Are you really? Yeah, I mean, this is that that
• 1:05:39
  like collector's mentality, like I have to have everything and
• 1:05:42
  then once I have it, even if I don't have a use for it, I can't
• 1:05:45
  get rid of it. It goes, you know, if it can't
• 1:05:47
  fit on the shelf, it goes in the closet.
• 1:05:49
  And then it stays there for years and years and years until
• 1:05:52
  I can finally let it go. Which, you know, I've got to
• 1:05:55
  learn a little something from this episode for that, that
• 1:05:56
  reason alone. But yeah, it's, it's, it's
• 1:06:00
  honestly, it's difficult for me as as a Muppet fan, as a person
• 1:06:04
  who's a fan of things. You're a completist.
• 1:06:07
  I am a completist. I am and I really, I have to
• 1:06:10
  like do soul searching when it's like, OK, there's a new set of
• 1:06:13
  Funko pops out. Do I really need to buy like 6
• 1:06:16
  more Funko pops? Because I have all the other
• 1:06:19
  Funko pops but I need them. But do I need them?
• 1:06:21
  And then I get them and then I maybe have regrets but then I
• 1:06:24
  can't get rid of them because I have them now in their mind.
• 1:06:27
  And it's just like this has become such a therapy session
• 1:06:30
  for me. Yeah, why don't you lie down?
• 1:06:34
  Yeah, I could use a lie down after that.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, absolutely. Well, in that case, if the
• 1:06:40
  episode helped you, then forgive me Sir.
• 1:06:46
  But truth be told, I think a lot of people in in in our
• 1:06:48
  community, in the Muppet fan community kind of feel the same
• 1:06:51
  way. Because Muppet stuff, Muppets
• 1:06:55
  Sesame Fraggle stuff, it's not as there's not as much out there
• 1:06:59
  as like Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, whatever.
• 1:07:02
  Like it like the, like when we find a piece of like Fozzie Bear
• 1:07:06
  merchandise in the wild, you have to have it like you, you
• 1:07:09
  searched for it and you found it.
• 1:07:10
  And like that's, that's a, that's a, something to
• 1:07:12
  celebrate. And then once you have it and
• 1:07:15
  you don't know what to do with it, that's when the hoarding
• 1:07:17
  mentality comes in. And also to recognize like
• 1:07:20
  hoarding isn't always like the person who's been collecting
• 1:07:22
  newspapers, you know, for, for decades.
• 1:07:24
  It's, it's just having things and you know, for without,
• 1:07:29
  without reason. And, you know, maybe having too
• 1:07:32
  much that so much that it affects your life and, you know,
• 1:07:36
  it's something I've definitely had to deal with for a long
• 1:07:38
  time. And, and I'm assuming that a lot
• 1:07:39
  of people who are listening to this maybe feel the same way.
• 1:07:42
  Have you ever had a moment where 20 years later you're like, Oh
• 1:07:46
  my God, I have that, I need that, and it actually came in
• 1:07:49
  handy? All the time, all the time.
• 1:07:51
  But more so it's the other way around where it'll be like that
• 1:07:55
  thing that I got rid of and I'm like, I wish I hadn't.
• 1:07:58
  And it's like, that's not a rational thought.
• 1:08:01
  Like that's not like I actually didn't, but there's a part of me
• 1:08:03
  that's like, but I maybe I should have kept it because I,
• 1:08:08
  it brings me joy that it exists, which, you know, there's a
• 1:08:13
  balance. There's a balance of all that
• 1:08:15
  stuff. Yeah.
• 1:08:17
  Jordan, do you? Are you a hoarder, Jordan?
• 1:08:22
  To a degree I oh God, it's just letting people in way too close.
• 1:08:28
  I have this. I'm like a film music nerd, and
• 1:08:33
  nerd is not a big enough word. It's AI almost want to call it a
• 1:08:37
  problem because I don't understand it.
• 1:08:41
  But I collect film scores like you wouldn't believe on all
• 1:08:46
  formats. And it's not a problem to the
• 1:08:49
  point where I can't maneuver around my house.
• 1:08:51
  Kind of like, like you, right? It's just, yeah, stuff gets
• 1:08:54
  tucked away and you start to think like, anyway, it's
• 1:08:58
  everything you just said, basically.
• 1:08:59
  So I relate to that. I don't quite relate to like the
• 1:09:02
  the insane clutter like you see on Learning Channel, but there's
• 1:09:06
  definitely that thought process of this brings me joy or brought
• 1:09:10
  me a lot of joy Once Upon a time.
• 1:09:11
  It could bring someone joy now, but it brought me a lot of joy
• 1:09:15
  Once Upon a time. So I'll just stick this away
• 1:09:17
  and, you know, bring something new to the forefront.
• 1:09:20
  It's yeah. Oh, look, our time's up.
• 1:09:25
  But at least the nice thing about that is it's paper.
• 1:09:28
  So like you can condense it like it doesn't have to be on display
• 1:09:34
  all over your your home. You know, you can, you can kind
• 1:09:36
  of consciously collect in that way.
• 1:09:41
  Well. I'm talking for that reason
• 1:09:42
  albums too, though not. Really like music, not just.
• 1:09:44
  Although I have lots of that too, lots of science stuff.
• 1:09:47
  It's out of control. I get it though.
• 1:09:51
  Guys, I'm the opposite. I'm actually the opposite of a
• 1:09:54
  hoarder. I think, well, you know what my
• 1:09:55
  mind is cluttered with. So I think I my, I hoard in my
• 1:10:00
  mind. So I I remember things, I
• 1:10:03
  remember dates. I don't know why I remember
• 1:10:06
  numbers. It's a weird thing I have so I
• 1:10:10
  have to have ZI have to have negative space around me and
• 1:10:14
  clutter makes me anxious. Oh, yes, I'm yeah.
• 1:10:20
  I'm the opposite of a of a horde.
• 1:10:22
  I, I well, I hoard in my brain, but I can't hoard around me it.
• 1:10:27
  I'm great at organizing and I'm great at throwing things out.
• 1:10:32
  I think in some other life I'm a professional organizer.
• 1:10:36
  Donna, you said you have a thing for dates.
• 1:10:39
  I have. I have that thing with dates,
• 1:10:40
  too. I remember things vividly.
• 1:10:42
  How do you? How do you see time laid out in
• 1:10:44
  your brain? Huh.
• 1:10:47
  I just can tell you that the first measurable snowfall in
• 1:10:50
  1974 in Nashville, TN was November 14th.
• 1:10:55
  Because I was so happy, I told myself I'm going to remember
• 1:10:59
  this day forever, and I have. That's incredible.
• 1:11:06
  I'm impressed. I genuinely speaking, I am very,
• 1:11:08
  very impressed. I, I just remembered dates.
• 1:11:11
  I I don't know. I, I don't, I don't know.
• 1:11:14
  I think it's it's visual for me, but I don't know.
• 1:11:18
  I have a very noisy brain. I see it like a not a grid, but
• 1:11:23
  basically a timeline that goes left to right, you know, with
• 1:11:25
  all the lines and stuff. That's kind of how I see it.
• 1:11:28
  And then I can stop and zoom in and I see all these events.
• 1:11:30
  It's nuts. Wow.
• 1:11:33
  So when you said, when you said that, I was like, oh, I wondered
• 1:11:36
  how her brain unpacks time because it's it's fun.
• 1:11:43
  And like I, I have no sense of time at all.
• 1:11:46
  Like I'm, I'm that person who's like, oh, that thing we did, you
• 1:11:48
  know, like a month ago. And my wife will be like, that
• 1:11:51
  was in 2005. What are you talking about?
• 1:11:55
  But I, but I, I do, he's talking about hoarding information.
• 1:12:01
  And like this again, is, is I think one thing that I've, I
• 1:12:05
  don't know if I picked it up from running tough pigs or if I
• 1:12:07
  use it to run tough pigs, but having all this muppet
• 1:12:11
  information in my head and not knowing what to do with it.
• 1:12:14
  And I'm so grateful I have an outlet for it, you know, through
• 1:12:16
  the website and through these podcasts.
• 1:12:20
  And you know, that I think that's one of the things that
• 1:12:22
  like makes me a good person to be able to, to do that because I
• 1:12:27
  have all this information. It's got nowhere to go.
• 1:12:30
  You know, it's I can talk about it to no one or you know, I can
• 1:12:34
  run this website, write articles, do podcasts, whatever,
• 1:12:37
  talk to talk to you folks with a bit of confidence that I know
• 1:12:40
  what I'm talking about. It sounds like it's on the
• 1:12:44
  outlet if you I. Hope so because it's all it's
• 1:12:48
  all I got so if it's not healthy I'm screwed.
• 1:12:51
  No, it's good that you have something to, you know, put this
• 1:12:56
  toward that. It's not just sitting, swirling,
• 1:12:58
  swirling around inside of you. I think this is for the best
• 1:13:00
  that you're doing in this dude, so.
• 1:13:02
  Thank you. Yeah.
• 1:13:05
  That's cool. Wow, we really, we really
• 1:13:07
  cracked this whole thing wide open here.
• 1:13:09
  I don't even know how to segue back to Fraggle Rock.
• 1:13:12
  That was just such a good good. Well, I think the moment mental
• 1:13:15
  health conversation. Well, I'll, I'll just jump back
• 1:13:20
  into the the episode then. So, yeah, the Moki waters,
• 1:13:25
  Lanford, who's who, as we said, has been planted in the garden.
• 1:13:28
  He's taken some deep roots and we see we got a nice shot of the
• 1:13:32
  roots throughout the soil and kind of looks like the energy
• 1:13:36
  flowing through them and they are ready for the turbine to
• 1:13:39
  start and nothing happens because there's no wind.
• 1:13:45
  The irony because we've been dealing with so much wind
• 1:13:47
  throughout this whole season that now is when the wind is
• 1:13:50
  like, now I'm good and we got Barry Blueberry and Cherry
• 1:13:56
  Contrary who pop up to tell us what we already know that all
• 1:13:59
  Frag Rock is in peril. Really, they're just there to
• 1:14:01
  say to be continued or rather to be concluded because we have one
• 1:14:05
  more episode to go and that's where our episode wraps.
• 1:14:10
  So any other thoughts about this episode?
• 1:14:14
  Any other reflections on on any of these scenes that we maybe
• 1:14:18
  didn't cover? Cotter pin popping in on same
• 1:14:21
  page. Cotter pin saying, you know,
• 1:14:23
  hey, looks like you have it under control.
• 1:14:25
  And smash cut to her and Junior going, yeah, they don't have it
• 1:14:28
  under control or whatever that was, that was that was.
• 1:14:30
  Pretty fun, but you're I I didn't, I didn't mention that
• 1:14:33
  moment, but you're right. It's so interesting to see a
• 1:14:36
  dooser and a gorg communicating together.
• 1:14:38
  Yeah. That's rare, yeah.
• 1:14:42
  And I'm not going to say it isn't earned because it is just
• 1:14:46
  thematically through the season. But it would have been nice to
• 1:14:48
  have had more of a build up to like there's so much in this
• 1:14:52
  series and the previous series about the Fraggles and the
• 1:14:54
  Gorgs, Fraggles and the Doozers, Fraggles and the and the silly
• 1:14:57
  creatures, whatever it is. And the Doozers and the Gorgs
• 1:15:00
  are only connected through the Fraggles.
• 1:15:03
  So I would have loved to have seen a little bit more about
• 1:15:05
  like, what does Cotterpin have in common with Junior or how can
• 1:15:10
  they connect on this crisis as opposed to Cotterpin just
• 1:15:14
  showing up and being like, hey man, can you help out with these
• 1:15:16
  Fraggles who can't sit still, please?
• 1:15:20
  One of those things that I'm sure you would have gotten to if
• 1:15:23
  you had 25 episodes in the season.
• 1:15:25
  Probably. Yeah, yeah, it was the 90s.
• 1:15:29
  It was the 90s, man. Actually, it wasn't.
• 1:15:31
  It was the 80s but. No, if it was the 90s we'd still
• 1:15:34
  have 2528 episode seasons. Yeah.
• 1:15:37
  Yeah, true. Yeah.
• 1:15:41
  Well, I, I just got to say I love this episode as as we
• 1:15:44
  talked about at length, just the the emotion of this episode
• 1:15:49
  really got to me. It felt like such a good
• 1:15:53
  narrative, a good conversation that the episode was having
• 1:15:56
  about a, a pretty complex idea of this idea of letting go.
• 1:16:02
  And I think you guys handled it really well.
• 1:16:04
  I I hope the kids watching felt that way too.
• 1:16:07
  I hope so too. It's really.
• 1:16:08
  Fun watching Donna prepare for all of those big scenes and to
• 1:16:13
  just kill them all. It's always fun.
• 1:16:16
  It's always amazing to watch. I mean, we talked a little bit
• 1:16:18
  about Donna. We talked about the sachet dance
• 1:16:23
  and how just that whole week leading up to it was so intense.
• 1:16:25
  Not intense, it was just I could see you were working it out all
• 1:16:29
  the time and then watch you nail it.
• 1:16:31
  And it was the same with this episode.
• 1:16:33
  It's just, it's so fun to see your focus, the way you work
• 1:16:37
  with your team, the way you communicate and just totally.
• 1:16:41
  Kill it. And walk away from it just like,
• 1:16:45
  you know, wipe your hands off. But yeah, I love it.
• 1:16:48
  I love it. That's why you are the Queen.
• 1:16:53
  Dart thank you. That's very kind of you, Jordy.
• 1:16:57
  Gosh, I I know that Wembley didn't have a ton to do in this
• 1:17:01
  episode, but you and Kanye together are just, you're so
• 1:17:05
  simpatico when Kanye is assisting you on on Wembley.
• 1:17:10
  And you just know, you just know your character so well and all
• 1:17:17
  your goofiness between takes that just keeps us light and
• 1:17:22
  buoyant. And yeah, it's just just a
• 1:17:25
  blast, you know? I love you.
• 1:17:27
  Likewise I. Love.
• 1:17:29
  You. I love your love, it's
• 1:17:31
  beautiful. We love you too, Joe.
• 1:17:33
  Oh. Thanks.
• 1:17:35
  I mean, we didn't spend months in Calgary together, but I
• 1:17:37
  appreciate that nonetheless. But we will next time.
• 1:17:41
  Next time. Next time not on word.
• 1:17:43
  Yep. So Donna and Jordan, I have a
• 1:17:47
  question I'd love to ask both of you that we asked to all of our
• 1:17:49
  guests on these podcasts. How do you plan to make the
• 1:17:53
  world a little fragglier? So my my last answer to this
• 1:17:57
  question was more on the serious side.
• 1:17:59
  So this time what I would really like is a giant fraggle pond in
• 1:18:04
  every city center where people can climb up high high rises and
• 1:18:10
  just bomb. Splash.
• 1:18:13
  That would be nice. That'd be nice.
• 1:18:15
  Yeah, I love that. What flavour's in the water?
• 1:18:18
  What flavour is it when when you never play the water?
• 1:18:21
  Yeah. Oh, I'm really into strawberries
• 1:18:25
  right now. Yeah, love this.
• 1:18:29
  You could jump in with your strawberry hat into the
• 1:18:32
  strawberry flavoured Fraggle pond, yeah?
• 1:18:35
  Man, it'd be great. Like grown adults in their suits
• 1:18:38
  climbing out their office windows and diving into a
• 1:18:40
  fraggle pond in the middle of the day.
• 1:18:41
  Like, screw this, it's glorious. I love it.
• 1:18:45
  The world would be such a better place, honestly, if we could
• 1:18:49
  just, you know, yippee into a into a pond.
• 1:18:54
  Totally how? Are you Dee?
• 1:18:57
  You know, I, I'm afraid this may sound like the last answer I
• 1:19:03
  gave, but I think it's taking breaks when you need them and
• 1:19:06
  taking, taking rest when you need it and taking, going, going
• 1:19:11
  into your cave, retreating into your cave when you need to, but
• 1:19:15
  then not forgetting to come back out and reconnecting with people
• 1:19:22
  because that is restorative also.
• 1:19:26
  And also, I was sort of taking my own caving time for the past
• 1:19:29
  couple of months. But puppet up shows are coming
• 1:19:32
  up and I'm seeing people again and we're rehearsing together
• 1:19:35
  and I can feel like shaking off the cobwebs and getting back
• 1:19:38
  into seeing people I love and doing work that I love.
• 1:19:41
  And just that those creative juices and just being with
• 1:19:44
  people and what that gives you as well.
• 1:19:45
  So taking breaks and and retreating and remembering to
• 1:19:52
  come back out into the world. So serious.
• 1:19:56
  There's a, but there's a balance.
• 1:19:57
  There's a good balance to strike with both of those things, with,
• 1:20:00
  with, with. Giving away.
• 1:20:04
  And jumping off buildings into fragments.
• 1:20:08
  No, I think, I think we all for our, our collective mental
• 1:20:11
  health, I think that that these are both really important
• 1:20:14
  things. And you know, I think it's going
• 1:20:17
  to be different for everybody what that balance exactly is.
• 1:20:20
  But I, I know that, you know, I, I, I personally don't really
• 1:20:26
  identify as a introvert or an extrovert.
• 1:20:30
  I'm somewhere in the middle of some amber vert, I think is the
• 1:20:32
  word for it. So like when there's times when
• 1:20:35
  I'm like, I really have to hold away.
• 1:20:36
  I really have to not be around people for a while.
• 1:20:38
  And then it's like, I haven't been around people in a while.
• 1:20:40
  I really have to get out there and be really social.
• 1:20:42
  And it's just finding that your your way into it to keep
• 1:20:46
  yourself from going crazy. Yeah.
• 1:20:48
  And I think both Jordan and I, one of the things that Jordan
• 1:20:51
  and I have in common is that we, we both, it can be very serious
• 1:20:55
  people and then we're both very silly people.
• 1:20:58
  Like I remember one of the first conversations I had with you,
• 1:21:01
  Jordan, when I just met you and you said, OK, when was the last
• 1:21:05
  time you cried? No.
• 1:21:09
  Ugly cried. This is like the second day I
• 1:21:12
  met Jordan and I was like, oh, I love you.
• 1:21:15
  And second of all. And then you said you prefaced
• 1:21:19
  it or you followed up with, yeah, I hate small talk like,
• 1:21:22
  oh, OK, 'cause I probably asked you so how?
• 1:21:25
  So tell me about your work in Canada is probably what I said.
• 1:21:28
  So how what brings you here to how to tell me about your work
• 1:21:31
  with Henson? And he gave me the answer.
• 1:21:32
  And then he asked me when the last time I cried was.
• 1:21:35
  And I was like, oh, oh, we're going here.
• 1:21:37
  Yay. OK.
• 1:21:38
  Yeah, you, you learn so much more about a person that way
• 1:21:41
  than there I am just. Peeping through a lot of stuff
• 1:21:43
  and get right to the good stuff. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:47
  But I was like, Oh my, I love this.
• 1:21:48
  This is going to be This is going to be very interesting and
• 1:21:50
  very fun. Wow, well thank you for that.
• 1:21:55
  I'm going to use that line when I when I meet people from now
• 1:21:57
  on. Do it.
• 1:21:59
  We'll see what we'll. See what specific?
• 1:22:01
  Yeah, you have to specifically ask them when the last time they
• 1:22:04
  ugly cried. Yeah, he's crying.
• 1:22:07
  Has many. It's a big umbrella.
• 1:22:09
  Yep, Yep, that's true. That's right, it was ugly cried.
• 1:22:12
  Well, that's very different. And and ugly cried.
• 1:22:15
  Those are very personal. You you remember the last time
• 1:22:18
  you ugly cried? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:20
  Wow. Well, on that lovely note, Donna
• 1:22:25
  Kimball, Jordan Lockhart, thank you both so much for being here,
• 1:22:30
  for everything you've done on Fraggle Rock and generally just
• 1:22:33
  talking about this great episode with me.
• 1:22:35
  So thanks for being here. Thanks for.
• 1:22:37
  Having us, Joe, it's always a. Pleasure, of course.
• 1:22:41
  Thank you, Jordy. Thank you, Dee.
• 1:22:54
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