Latest / Hormone Heroes with Dr. Kelly Hopkins / Testosterone Pellets vs. Weekly Injections: Overcoming the TRT Yo-Yo Effect with Don Dancer

Transcript

Testosterone Pellets vs. Weekly Injections: Overcoming the TRT Yo-Yo Effect with Don Dancer · Hormone Heroes with Dr. Kelly Hopkins

• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Hormone Heroes, where I share testimonials from real people who have experienced bioidentical hormone therapy.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Men and women share the symptoms they have experienced and the difference proper hormone replacement has made.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, dr Kelly Hopkins, and I have been in the functional medicine space for over 30 years, with a focus on hormones for 20 years.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Please keep in mind this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Please consult with your physician or practitioner for medical advice.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Let's get started with today's guest.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: We have a very special guest today named Don Dancer.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: He is an old friend of my husband's.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: You guys went to high school together, is that correct, don?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: That's correct, and he currently lives in Rogers, arkansas, which is the northwest corner of Arkansas, and he is a retired high school teacher and coach and he is now a real estate agent for Coldwell Banker and Rogers.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: So welcome, don.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you mentioned Kevin, because one of the things I want to emphasize today is it took me forever to make the decision to do this.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: He had, you know, offered years ago.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: But I'm not a believer, you know, I'm a skeptic, and so I tried all of these other things you know, that were easy to access for me that I didn't understand the importance of what he was offering.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: What I was going through, and so I always like to say hey look, I'm just like everybody else, I'm skeptical on some level about a lot of things.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: In this case, it was the wrong position to be Sure.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Most people say they wish they had started hormone therapy sooner.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: They really do, but let me just start and started 10 years earlier.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I'm in much better condition.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I've seen a change in you just in the past year, honestly, don since we've started treating you.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So let me just start by asking when did you start to notice symptoms of hormone deficiency, and what were your symptoms?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So my journey here started in 2010.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I had a heat stroke and didn't go to the hospital I'm that guy and I almost died.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I spent four days in ICU recovering and one of the results of that was I had damage to my pituitary the pituitary controls, you know the signaling to release the testosterone, and my testosterone levels, Kelly, went from normal to somewhere around 25 is what I remember.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, wow, and so the normal levels are like 700.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I went to 25.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: And you were how old in 2010?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And so that's been, you know, 14, 15 years ago now.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So I was in my 40s, I'm 58.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So 44.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: And that was the beginning.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: And that's when Kevin offered the service.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: But I was going to an endocrinologist in Rogers at the time, and so I'm like, all right, I'm going to stick with this person's advice, and so I started with the gels person's advice.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And so I started with the gels.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, I got some benefit from that.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: But I was still operating with terribly low testosterone levels 200 to 25.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Right, I transitioned after about four years of that to shots, and that would get me up to three or four or five.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: How often would you do your shots?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Once a week.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And the problem with the shots that you don't get from the pellets is you have the weekly yo-yo, so the high of just having the shot, and then it degrades as you get through the week and then it degrades as you get through the week.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I would take my shot on Sunday and by the next Friday or Saturday I'm back down to really low, and then you know I'd take another shot and get high again and then get low, whereas with the pellets I'm on a steady release over a six-month period of time and you don't have that yo-yo.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the difference is just amazing.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we try to keep our male patients between 900 and 1200.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: And if you were down to 25, I bet you you didn't want to really get your head up off the pillow.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: No, it was terrible.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So then, Impetus for the pellets.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: In 2020, I ran into COVID.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I had a tough situation, tough battle with COVID, and I had the lagging effects of COVID and at that point, things had really, you know, gotten serious as far as all the things that my testosterone affected had just sort of you know multiply.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: You know I'm 50.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I was 57 at the time and I think COVID helped me in some way, because, you know, when you almost die, you start waking up and going, all right, well, this is an extreme situation.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe I need to start making some different decisions.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And so I'm like, all right, Kevin, let's do this.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: None of the things I was using was really working anymore.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, all right, I'm ready.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: And so, in a way, COVID was, you know, life changer, but in a positive way, because at that time, I stopped being lulled by, you know, my own past and my conservativeness on, you know my medication, or what I thought was right, or you know the money or whatever you know doubt she might have about your medical situation and who you listen to.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: All of those factors come into play and then, just as a guy, to be honest with you, it was just a lack of understanding.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: And being very stubborn.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Well, men, especially men, don't really ever think you're going to need anything or any.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: That's kind of love Bulletproof.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was good enough and you know these things that you know.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I just was going to stick with me, right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I just was going to stick with me, right?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: And so thank God that I went through that and kind of woke up and said, all right, hey, listen, I need to.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I need to change my thinking here and try some new things, because this has just gotten terrible.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how we got to me finally changing.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: What I was doing, versus just being stuck in my own mindset.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: So with Androgel, which is what you were given first, you didn't really notice much of a bump in energy levels or anything else.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And then with the weekly shots, the testosterone shots, you were experiencing probably a little bit better benefits.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: But there was the up and down roller coaster effect.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: That's true, and because you have that constant up and down on a weekly basis, you never get to some of the benefits that I got with the pellets, yeah, and so not only with my pellets did I get, you know, a strong change in a lot of my body, but other things started manifesting because my body was getting stronger.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: The second six-month period, I noticed that my heartburn that I had suffered with for years had gone away, and what I think that was saying was it was working in ways like my muscles, the sphincters in my throat, all of that was getting stronger.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: So all of that was getting stronger.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: So what I didn't realize before was that you know, yes, I had some ups and downs and stuff, but it was never allowing your body I love the name of your company Restoration, because what it does is it restores you.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: So I didn't realize that all of these things had sort of regressed or atrophied over the years and were stagnant.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: And then, with the second treatment, I noticed those things getting stronger.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And then, the third treatment, I noticed my core coming back, and it's not just going to the gym or it's not just, you know, brain clarity, but my whole physique was changing, because now my body had what it needed to do to restore itself, and so it's restored me back decades to my life, and so I'll say things to my friends now when I recommend the treatment, like it'll take you back to 30.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh, and that, what a concept you know.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I just want to clarify you were a football player, correct?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And a power lifter, okay, and worked out my whole life, spent, you know, most of my life in the gym and lifting heavy weights.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And then you know, to find myself in that situation in my 40s where, you know, not only did I not want to go to the gym, not only did I not have any energy when I went to the gym, but there was no capacity to do what I'd normally done over the years, because my muscles just didn't have what they needed to function.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: And now, sorry, I didn't mean to talk over you, but man, I get excited about this.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Now I go to the gym and not only am I pumped and I have the energy to do what I need to do, and I go there and I'm working out, but I'm lifting weights, and then you can see the change.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Before, without the testosterone, you know, you work out all day, every day, and your body was going to be, you know, saggy, uh-huh.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Because there was no muscle being built.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Right, and you've lost.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: How many pounds of fat do you think?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when I started I was at about 375.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh, and just in the last year and a half, not only have I put on I don't know the percentage of muscle, but I'm down to about 302.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Wow, wow, don, that's great.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: So a significant weight loss while eating.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I haven't been starving.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: But what had happened over the years is that your testosterone is linked to so much of you and your muscularity and your functioning that everything has slowed down to just being able to walk around and think and function on a basic level.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: No energy, no zest for life.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I could only work in small windows, maybe an hour or two, whereas you know, when I was younger I could work all day, hard work from dusk to dawn, right and back to.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I can work from six or seven in the morning to nine or 10 o'clock at night and come in and yes, you know, I get fatigued, like a normal person again, but I'm able to hold a conversation with my wife.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Visit with my daughter.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, be me again Right Before I would just be dead to the world.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I would sit and stare at the TV because I just didn't have the mental energy.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I was in a fog.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: You know, all of those things were related to my hormone levels and my testosterone.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Right, I wanted to revisit the idea that you said your heartburn went away, and part of it may be some of the weight loss is helping, but also testosterone increases nitric oxide, and nitric oxide is going to increase the vascularity of all of our muscles and tissues, and so you're getting more nutrients, you're getting more oxygen to those tissues.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So that is also something that we've heard over and over, and you don't think about it being an andropause or a menopause symptom, but heartburn, just any gastric issues, can be helped with having better hormone levels.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: In reality I just talked about, you know, the sphincter at the end of my esophagus, there, but what you were talking about, the peristalsis, the food moving through my stomach, you know, at my bowels, and all of that, all of that began to work better again.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I was functioning the way I had always functioned.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: You've noticed with more and more cycles that you've done I think we've done three or four different pellet cycles with you.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You said you've noticed unique benefits you hadn't previously imagined.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times people won't notice that big wow factor the first time, but give it two or three times, let your body composition change Absolutely and you know the neurology of your brain increases all these different.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: You know things get better over time.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: You didn't get in the position you're in overnight, so it takes.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It might take a minute.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you put it that way.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, this had been over a decade of different hormonal treatments, right?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: The.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Ongro gel and the shots.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: But what I've come to realize now is this goes back way before even my heat stroke.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: And so as a guy I haven't studied ladies, but as a guy, our levels start dipping in our late 20s.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, I find myself noticing things that I haven't noticed for decades.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's taken my body over the last year and a half, two years working with you guys, to get to this point now where, finally, I'm walking differently, I'm sitting differently, my posture is different.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: All of these things I didn't know or realize were related to my testosterone level.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Now my physique is restoring itself, now that I have, you know, your services, and so I'm going wow, I'm not just going back to 30, but I'm seeing things that haven't happened for me until, you know, back in my 20s.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the commercials always talk about sex, and that is something that there are lots of benefits to, but for me it was the mental acuity too, but for me it was the mental acuity.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: That was the first thing that happened for me.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I realized about three days into the first treatment that I had been walking around in a fog.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: My brain lit up.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You know, and my wife would say stuff like, wow, this is, you're like the guy I married 26 years ago.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: That's got to help, right, that's got to help, yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: And then my work.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: You know I'm sharper in my interactions with you.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Know, the people that I'm dealing with level my physique, how I stand and walk, my muscularity, my face and the muscles in my face had sagged, and so I noticed my chin has come back, yeah, and so it's just been an evolution, but not in atrophy, but in the other direction, where my body has been restoring itself, direction where my body has been restoring itself.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And so, man, I'm loving, every day Something new materializes that I hadn't felt or thought of in decades.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: That's great, Don.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Just to be in all fairness, did you notice any side effects?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Is there anything people should be warned about as they start this therapy, anything like that?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something I was worried about at the time.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: You know, taking more meds.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of an anti-med guy, so you know I can remember several years ago having a meeting with my endocrinologist and going, no, I'm not taking any more pills, so I want to start taking less.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: How can we get rid of, you know medications?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And that was part of my mentality, kelly.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And why, kevin, it took him so long to get me to make a decision.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I'm anti-pharma, but I'm in that mentality, right.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, less is more.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Less is more, and so there's been a couple of things that sort of popped up.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: One was, I think, a con and a pro.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that happens when your testosterone levels get really low is, for me, I was very passive.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I've gotten very passive and so my testosterone levels, when they started going up, I started noticing that I got more and more assertive in defending myself.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Now, on a drastic level, like if you're a professional athlete and you're taking 10 times the load of testosterone that might be called roid rage.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: In this case it's a lower level, which is a reasonable, controlled amount of agitation, and I think it was a positive.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I think it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know, we all need to be in a middle position where we can defend ourselves and advocate for ourselves, and so I had sort of let all that slip, you know, and just had been very passive because I was not argumentative and I was a collegiate debater.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of a huge contradiction for me, right.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: It's an energy thing, wasn't it Like it's just like oh energy.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I became a little bit more agitated and then would advocate for myself and go wait a minute, guy, and so I saw that as a positive.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It never got to a situation where you know I was doing anything out of control.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Sure, and did you just notice that initially, like when you went from?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what it's less now.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: It was in the period between my first and second set of treatments.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: There was about a six month period there.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: So at the end of my first treatment and at the middle beginning of my second treatment, where I noticed that yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I noticed that things were getting on my nerve and, looking back, it was really my mind restoring me.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Because, again, my personality had regressed to the point, or degraded to the point where I was just like I'm not even going to bother with it, I'm not going to talk, I'm not, you know.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I would advocate for clients but not myself.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: You know I was avoiding like if someone would do something you know objectionable around me and I just let it go.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: So I noticed that.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I would be interested to ask your beautiful wife what she's noticed as far as your personality.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: She likes that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: She noticed I was on a phone call with a gentleman one night about some real estate business a gentleman one night about some real estate business.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: And when I got and it was a little bit of a back and forth there because there was a misunderstanding.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: It was a dad from New York City that called me and I was helping his daughter find a home here and he was going wait a minute, guy, what are you doing with my daughter here on this house?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: And so when I got off the phone, my wife goes wow, I like that, I like that.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: You know, all of this has been again degrading and then or atrophying and then a restoration, and so that was part of it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And I noticed what she said.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: You know she's like you just hadn't been doing that, and that's the guy I knew versus that's the guy you had become, you know.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And so, man, the testosterone thing.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And this is why one of the things I want to emphasize here and I think you've gotten from my other points in my message it's everything here and I think you've gotten from my other points in my message it's everything.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: It's not just muscles and going to the gym and sex, and it's everything.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: It's your other hormone levels, it's how your body's functioning, it's your heartburn.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I bet there are a million guys out there that are walking around dealing with body maintenance issues.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: That if they would just get on the pellets, those problems would disappear.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I totally agree, of course.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, besides, that enough, I had going to the bathroom problems, uh-huh, all of that disappeared.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, all of it disappeared.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because, you know, all of the muscles started functioning the way they should, you know, and I was not going to a cardiologist, but your heart's, you know, one of your big muscles, I'm sure it's better too.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I can tell you, my endurance, my fatigue, you know, all of that has drastically changed in the last year and a half, two years.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So have you been able to go off any medications, or are you lessening medications, anything like that, yet?
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: What I was going to say.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: The second part of the impacts that I noticed there was I've been sick less.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I hadn't been to the chiropractor, yeah, and I had had problems for years.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking now it was really about my back muscles and my spine and the fact that my muscles were weak and the fact that my muscles were weak and that that weakness creates hip problems and joint problems, neck pain.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: You know, after you get on this stuff and you start getting stronger and your body starts changing, then you start realizing wow, man, all of these things that I've been dealing with over