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Transcript

Raising Boys Into Men Of Faith · Equipped for Impact

• 0:08
  Nate: Welcome to Equipped for Impact, the podcast designed to assist Christian parents, leaders, and educators to raise up the next generation, to stand firm in their faith, and influence their world for Christ.
• 0:20
  Nate: I'm your host, Nate, and I'm not here with Lewis today.
• 0:24
  Nate: I'm sorry, people.
• 0:25
  Nate: Uh, you're gonna miss out on him, but it's all right.
• 0:27
  Nate: I am not running solo.
• 0:29
  Nate: Uh, I've got a special guest with me here today.
• 0:32
  Nate: Uh, I'm here with Jamal.
• 0:34
  Nate: Jamal, hey, how you doing?
• 0:35
  Nate: I'm great.
• 0:36
  Jamal: Great, great, thanks for being part of it.
• 0:38
  Nate: Yeah, glad to have you with us.
• 0:40
  Nate: So, Jamal is the lead pastor of Abide Bible Church.
• 0:44
  Nate: Uh, he's been married to his wife for 10 years, and they have seven children.
• 0:49
  Nate: Three here with us on earth and four in heaven.
• 0:53
  Nate: Uh, he's currently pursuing his doctorate at Dallas Theological Seminary.
• 0:57
  Nate: So we have to stop here for a second.
• 0:59
  Nate: A fellow Dallas friend here.
• 1:02
  Nate: Uh, he and I are taking classes at the same seminary.
• 1:05
  Nate: Uh, but most importantly, he loves Jesus and is passionate about helping people abide in him.
• 1:11
  Nate: So, Jamal, great to have you with us.
• 1:14
  Nate: Yes.
• 1:14
  Nate: Um, it's great, you know, I always love when you're around here at the school with us and speaking in chapel and all of that.
• 1:20
  Nate: So I'm glad we're able to get you here on the podcast.
• 1:23
  Nate: Yes, yes.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Nate, it has just been exciting to even think about the possibility of being a part of it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So thank you.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:31
  Nate: Yeah, that's great.
• 1:32
  Nate: So we've got to start off with uh probably the most important question.
• 1:36
  Nate: And um, people who are here listening, longtime listeners know uh this is a very important topic on our podcast.
• 1:45
  Nate: And that is what is your opinion on breakfast for dinner?
• 1:49
  Nate: All right, so breakfast after turn thirty, is that okay or not?
• 1:53
  Nate: I think I think it's okay.
• 1:55
  Nate: It's okay.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: We do it often, quite often.
• 1:59
  Nate: So, so Lewis is not here with us, and he cannot uh defend himself in this situation.
• 2:05
  Nate: So uh we're gonna take that for the team.
• 2:08
  Nate: Um, that's a win for us.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:12
  Nate: All right.
• 2:12
  Nate: So now we get the nonsense out of the way, uh, talking about breakfast for dinner and all of that.
• 2:17
  Nate: Um one of the things we, you know, I I had heard about that that you do specifically, you know, so you know our our podcast is all for for parents, and and you've got um, you know, a lot of uh passion and experience, I guess, kind of working with young men, especially.
• 2:33
  Nate: And so um, you know, a lot of our listeners, they've got, you know, young men in their household, boys that they're raising to become young men.
• 2:40
  Nate: So I just wanted to dive in and and kind of talk about this.
• 2:44
  Nate: Like, um, when you think about parents and as they're raising boys, or let me just let's start here before I get too far into it.
• 2:51
  Nate: Um, you know, tell us a little bit about um about your your ministry with with young men in the community, like what does that kind of look like there?
• 3:00
  Nate: And then we'll kind of get into the some s the specifics of it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so for me, uh I was really intrigued by a guy named Rusty uh McKee, who has just been a great friend of mine.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And he started a ministry called Man School.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: And so this summer uh I just had an opportunity to learn about it and just hear uh his heart for it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And it's always been a passion of mine, one, because uh just knowing my background, I didn't grow up with my father in my life.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: And so seeing other young men not have a father figure for them just kind of just tugged at my heart.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And so the ministry really starts on how do you help a man or a young boy become a man?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: What are those stages or uh those marks that they need to help them to grow into manhood?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, and so he really laid it out very well.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: And once I've seen that, I was like, man, this is what I was been looking for.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, to help me, myself with my son, but also to help other young men who haven't uh, or their father figure wasn't there, or their father figure is there, and they just don't know how to walk with their sons.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And so that became just the heart and passion for me.
• 4:16
  Nate: Gotcha.
• 4:16
  Nate: Awesome.
• 4:17
  Nate: And so this is is it like a program, like you call it man school?
• 4:21
  Nate: So it's a program you bring the these boys through to kind of get them there?
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, uh the way that Rusty sets it up is a five-year program.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, because his heart is to catch them at the age of 13 and get them to 18.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: And so you walk with them every year, focusing on uh one particular area.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Um, and I'm sure we'll talk about that, but it just helps them to grow in that one area, that one year, and then they can focus on the next year on another area.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And so it's really it's a healthy program, but I wouldn't call it I call it discipleship.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's everything that you need.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: He just gives you the resources to be able to do it effectively.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 5:01
  Nate: Yeah, gotcha.
• 5:01
  Nate: Okay.
• 5:02
  Nate: So so each year has a focus, and you're just really being intentional about that.
• 5:06
  Nate: I love the intentionality there.
• 5:08
  Nate: Well, I mean, you mentioned it, so let's just go there.
• 5:10
  Nate: Um so what are kind of the the five focus areas that you really you dig in with with these with these boys?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so first year is a warrior.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Second year is a lover, okay.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Third year is a uh worker, and then the fourth year is a monk and then a sage.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: And so that first year, what you're really focusing in is teaching them how to bless instead of curse.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Um, how do you fight for blessing others and not cursing them?
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: And then that second year is how do you partner that fight with loving?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, how do you look at the world and see like the trees are beautiful, you know, the the ocean is peaceful.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And how do you have emotions with that?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: And not using it uh in a uh uh sexual way that is explicit, but learning how to use love in that in a healthy way.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: And then that worker, how do you work?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: How do you, you know, give what God is giving you?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Like we see in the garden, he allowed Adam to work.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: So how do you have the responsibility of working?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And then that monk stage is how do you isolate to be able to really grow and really be with God, not isolating uh away from people, but going into that that sacred place for you to study, grow, and dive and deeper in your relationship with God.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And then that final stage is how do you disciple others?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, how do you help them to grow while you're growing at the same time?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: So those are the stages that that uh Rusty used and I think are very helpful.
• 6:42
  Nate: Okay.
• 6:42
  Nate: Um I I think that's interesting that like when you were listing the stages, you know, my mind immediately went to like warrior, like, okay, you know, think strong macho man, like I'm gonna go out and be a protector.
• 6:53
  Nate: Right.
• 6:54
  Nate: But that's not really the way it takes it.
• 6:56
  Nate: So and even the love, right?
• 6:57
  Nate: Being a lover, it's not, you know, like you said, a sexual explicit thing, but it's it's a biblical, yeah, holistic idea of that.
• 7:06
  Nate: Yeah.
• 7:07
  Nate: So how do you like how have you seen maybe some of the misconceptions, especially with those, maybe those stages, yeah?
• 7:15
  Nate: How have you seen that, you know, play out in some boys that you've you've walked through this program?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think um like when you go through the questions, because what the way he has it set up, there's a Bible verse that you start with, and then there are questions that you dive in.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: It'll be about three or four questions that you answered together.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And just to see how they navigate through.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So one of the stories we talk about is Samson.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And so we talk about how Samson, as a warrior, what kept him from being able to uh safeguard, protect, to be able to uh just not fall into uh lustly desires so that he could be able to fight correctly.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And so I asked the young men, like, what are some things around you or in your life that's keeping you from desiring something that God doesn't want you to desire?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: And so uh teaching them how to uh cultivate instead of consume all the time, uh, teaching them the responsibility of being a man.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I think our culture does a good job of saying, hey, you gotta provide as a man.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: But when you look in the Bible, what we see is when Jesus came and God's whole story is he's trying to redeem things, and as he's redeeming it, it provides a safe place for others to be able to provide space and things like that for us to grow and for others to grow.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And so it's a it's an upside down philosophy of the culture, which I really, really love because it's going back to the biblical foundation of what was God's good design from the beginning and how should we look at that and be men in that way.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And so that has been like really helpful for me as we talk about uh young men going from bo boyhood to manhood, because the reality is most young men don't have a male figure in their lives to give them a rite of passage to move to a next stage of life.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And so when you look at like God does with Jesus from the beginning, he blesses him in four different ways.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: He says, Hey, this is my son, so he takes ownership of my son and I'm blessing him.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Then he says, I love him.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: This is my beloved son whom I love.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And so he shows like I love him as well.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And then he shows them another is like I'm pleased with him before he even did anything.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: And then he gives them opportunity to lead.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: He says, Hey, you guys listen to him.
• 9:50
  Nate: Yeah.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And so what God does is what every man needs as they're growing from boyhood to manhood.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: They need to be blessed by another man to say, I'm pleased with him, I love him, and I want to uh encourage him to grow in his leadership.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: And I think uh that rite of passage that most young men and me myself didn't get it it really hinders us from growing from manhood to to boy, from boyhood to manhood.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha.
• 10:20
  Nate: That's interesting.
• 10:21
  Nate: So I'd never seen that uh until you you brought it out, the fact that there's different all the different times that God speaks from heaven, right, in in the scriptures.
• 10:29
  Nate: That's that's really interesting.
• 10:30
  Nate: Um so so you talked about these rites of passage.
• 10:34
  Nate: Um so what does that look like for for you know boys today?
• 10:38
  Nate: Yeah.
• 10:39
  Nate: Um in a course most of our listeners are in America.
• 10:42
  Nate: So in American context, what does that look like, those rites of passage where a parent can make those affirmations to to their children?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what we see, um the let's we'll talk about the cultural way of rite of passage, and let's talk about a biblical way.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Because reality is uh we in America are probably the only culture that doesn't do a rite of passage for a young man in their growing up.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Um, but what we do see in a cultural way, the rite of passage is why young men get into gang and why they get into fraternities and all those things, because they have a peer-on-peer calling them to a higher thing and saying, hey, we can do this together.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Well, in a biblical way, or or what we see in a Christian culture as a parent, what we should see is the the father figure saying to the son, hey, I'm pleased with you and I'm excited for where you're growing.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And so what we did with our young men is we had the mothers to write a letter to their sons, and we had the fathers to go out and dinner.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: And so we went to Outback one night, and um I shared with the young men, hey, this is my heart for you, and I'm excited for you wanting to be on this journey.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: And so we just had a meal together, and we were able to just encourage each other in that moment.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And that was just a rite of passage for these young men to say, Man, other men care about me and they want to pour into my life.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: So I think it's moments like that.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Give some belonic belonging, right?
• 12:11
  Nate: It almost is like I I fit here.
• 12:13
  Nate: Would you bring up the you know, gangs or fraternities, right?
• 12:16
  Nate: Those are more about belonging than anything else.
• 12:18
  Nate: Yep.
• 12:19
  Nate: Wow, that's awesome.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: So that's what the rite of passage is really doing, helping them to feel like they belong and that others encourage and want them to grow into manhood.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And so I think that's what that's what it is.
• 12:33
  Nate: Gotcha.
• 12:34
  Nate: Yep, gotcha.
• 12:34
  Nate: Okay.
• 12:35
  Nate: So would you would like would you encourage parents to, you know, uh set up certain like intentional rites of passage as they they map out, you know, their kids' next couple of years?
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: One of my friends uh in West Virginia, he took his son on a trail and they walked the trail together, and he just called out the manhood.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: He wrote a letter to him in the midst of it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: They did a fire that night after they did the rite of passage.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: It's just that that moment where the kid will remember, oh, my dad intentionally did this.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be anything like uh outrageous.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: It can be a walk together, it can be a dinner together, it can be um you buying them something and writing them a letter.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Those moments a kid would never forget because you took the intentionality to be present with them in a very special moment.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 13:30
  Nate: That's that's really good.
• 13:31
  Nate: Um, so when we think about this, like you've got this plant, you know, you've five years, and obviously we understand, like, of course, I'm an educator, so I've got curriculum and plans and maps and all that stuff, but I think you and I both know, you know, discipleship is not a linear process.
• 13:47
  Nate: Right, right.
• 13:47
  Nate: Absolutely.
• 13:48
  Nate: Um so there's those times where there might be a setback or circumstances, maybe you've gone through one of those rites of passage, and then, you know, the boy, the man falls.
• 13:58
  Nate: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Nate: Um, how do you use those opportunities to point them back to the gospel and help kind of kick start or or restart that spiritual journey?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great question.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Um, I think what you think about is when you see the gospel, we know that it's needed, not just at the point of salvation, it's needed all of your life.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Like you can never graduate from the gospel.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And so you use every single moment as an opportunity to point people back to Jesus.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And so it shows for us that God's great design was for everything to be perfect.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: However, we know the initial conflict is their sin.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And then what we do is realize, hey, there is something broken, broken, and who's the only one that can solve it?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And so in the midst of that, you have a response to choose.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Either I'm gonna follow Jesus or I'm not.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: And so uh I have a young man that we're walking through, and I gave him the a task.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I said, Hey, this is what I want you to do.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I want you to write down all your assignments when they're due and check them off when you do it.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: And so later he came back and he had a moment where uh he actually couldn't play in a basketball game because his grades were down.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Oh man.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And so uh I checked back with him, I said, Hey, did you create that list and did you check it off?
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: And he was like, Man, I forgot to do that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And I was just like, Man, one simple thing of that checklist, and why do we want to do that?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Because we want to be held to a uh an account.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: This is what I need to do, and this is, but at the same time, I never shamed him for not doing it.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And then at the same time, he was able to redeem that and be able to play again.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And so that's a gospel presentation of oh, I made a mistake, but God doesn't look at us and say, Oh, now you're I I'm writing you off.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I never want to deal with you again.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: No, God says, I'm gonna give you grace and also, yeah, you may have consequences, but at the same time, you can be redeemed in this.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of the gospel, where we can take these moments to help these young men and others feel that they can be redeemed even in the midst of failing.
• 16:14
  Nate: That's that's great.
• 16:15
  Nate: Um we talk a lot about those little moments like that and how our reaction as parents can, you know, kind of detour one way or the other, right?
• 16:25
  Nate: And shut down those conversations.
• 16:26
  Nate: So I mean, I know i in my own life, either as a parent or in my role at the school, you know, it's really easy to react in a situation like that.
• 16:36
  Nate: And it's like, I told you to make this list and you didn't do it.
• 16:40
  Nate: And then that just shuts down the conversation.
• 16:42
  Nate: Like, how do you keep from in those moments, in the heat of the moment, like not responding negatively, but but being able to gently redirect uh when you see a a mistake that's sometimes even just a really careless mistake.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Uh first I would say I'm imperfect, so I don't do it well.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Um and so uh I can think about even in our own family, I think about moments where I don't always respond immediately like I should.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: However, um, what I've learned and what I'm seeing through scripture is be willing to take ownership of your mistakes and admit that.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: However, at the same time, be always proactive, um, allowing the spirit to lead you in every situation, every conversation, and everything you do.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And when the spirit is leading, that's when those opportunities can happen.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And I think an encouragement for parents is to realize that you're gonna make a mistake and you're gonna fail.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: At the same time, your kid wants to know that you'll be willing to ask for forgiveness, even when you do, and then start back where you failed and restore what you missed.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, once a kid realized that, hey, my my parents can admit they're wrong, they can take ownership of when they sin, then those opportunities, those grace moments even come from the kid.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Because the kid is like, Oh, yeah, I know you didn't mean that.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: And so I think it it works both ways.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You uh make sure that you're proactive, being led by the Spirit, while at the same time being willing to ask for forgiveness, and I think it builds grace in the kid to give you grace when you need it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Um, so I think it just goes all around us realizing that we need the gospel, we're imperfect, and we're gonna make a mistake, and we and God can redeem that while at the same time it does build grace in our kids to give us grace when we need it.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Gotcha.
• 18:43
  Nate: Yeah, gotcha.
• 18:43
  Nate: That's awesome.
• 18:44
  Nate: Um, so as you've worked with with young men, um, you know, I've heard you reference certain certain sections of scripture, but like what what are the passages that you find yourself going back to over and over again with young men?
• 18:58
  Nate: Like on this podcast, we constantly go back to Deuteronomy 6, you know, um for parents, you know, passing on to the their children and while they walk by the way, like all of that in Deuteronomy 6.
• 19:09
  Nate: Like, what are some passages you find yourself going back to time and again?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I think about Ephesians 6 don't provoke your children's anger.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Um, I think that one in this season has been very impactful for me because um I just love the fact that God is encouraging the parents to not provoke their kids.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Um, another one that comes to mind is you think about Proverbs, train up a child, and what's unique about that scripture is training up a child in the way that they're gifted so that God can use them.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So you're training them in the way that they're wired, and what does that look like for them?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Um, so that's a passage that I go to.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Deuteronomy 6 uh is another passage.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: We think about Psalm, uh, I think it's Psalm is it 127?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Uh like arrows.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You think about that.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I also think about uh the psalm psalmist when he's talking about uh the wife and the children are like shoots at your tables, and and those are like those are verses that come to mind when you're thinking about raising kids or even having a home setting that that is uh just open for the gospel and open for Jesus to be glorified in the midst.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And so it's verses like that that come to mind when I think about it in that sense.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gotcha.
• 20:34
  Nate: And what about for for like the the boys you're working with?
• 20:37
  Nate: Yeah where you're trying to really instill instill you know biblical manhood in them.
• 20:41
  Nate: Like what are some passages for them?
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Ah I think about like the story of David, when you look at that story, uh I think about how his courage and how he wanted to uh be a man after God's own heart.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: And I think those type of passages really help me to encourage young men to find the way that guys wired them and to find how God is using them in their unique way, and so that becomes an encouragement to me to help young men.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: But I think about stories like Samson, um, those are great stories to encourage the kids on the importance of understanding who you are, understanding your desires, and I think it's stories like that that really uh just help me walk with the the young men.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think those are just sweet stories for me.
• 21:36
  Nate: Yeah, that's good.
• 21:36
  Nate: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  Nate: We can learn so much from those.
• 21:38
  Nate: Yeah.
• 21:39
  Nate: And um both the successes and the failures.
• 21:42
  Nate: Right.
• 21:42
  Nate: You you mentioned David and Samson, and I mean they they their stories are stories of failure as much as they are of of success.
• 21:50
  Nate: Yeah.
• 21:51
  Nate: Um, how do you how do you help a boy, you know, where you're putting a role model in front of them and you already mentioned, you know, your own failures.
• 21:59
  Nate: And you know, cultivating that grace in either your children or the boys you're mentoring.
• 22:04
  Nate: Um, but here we've got even biblical role models and then they fail.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:09
  Nate: Um, how do you help them navigate, you know, seeing their heroes fall or stumble, whatever it is?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Ultimately helping them realize that uh Jesus is the ultimate man of all.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And so when we uh help the young men realize that none of us are Jesus, and that outside of Jesus, everyone else is gonna sin and fall short, and helping them realize that grace is always available.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And it helps us see the importance of the gospel and what Jesus did and why he came.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And so help them realize that on this side of glory, God is not expecting perfection, he's expecting us to continuously grow so that we realize that our holiness and set apartness is helping us to show the world more of Christ.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And then in the midst of that, helping them realize that's why Jesus returning, Jesus coming back is so, so important because we're gonna always fall short of the glory of God.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: But our aim and desire should be that we be repentive and we look forward to when Jesus returns.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And so helping them have a gospel understanding in every season, every form of life actually helps them understand that hey, I'm gonna be an imperfect man and I'm gonna raise imperfect kids, but I can be gracious to them in the midst of that because Jesus is the only perfect man.
• 23:41
  Nate: Yep.
• 23:41
  Nate: Oh, that's good.
• 23:42
  Nate: That's good.
• 23:43
  Nate: Yeah, we we talk a lot about, you know, the creation, fall, redemption, restoration, right?
• 23:48
  Nate: And and everything is is pushing us towards that longing for the restoration one day.
• 23:53
  Nate: Yes, yes.
• 23:53
  Nate: Um, and even in moments like that, right?
• 23:56
  Nate: I fail, here's your hero that you looked up to, and he fell.
• 23:59
  Nate: Um, you know, but that's because we're looking forward to the better Adam, the better David, you know, that's that's gonna come back.
• 24:06
  Nate: So that's that's encouraging there.
• 24:08
  Nate: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Nate: Um when you think about, we already talked about the rites of passage, but um what is one kind of specific, kind of practical takeaway you you wish every father or mother did consistently to disciple their their boys, especially to to maturity?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh the biggest thing I've been learning over the past probably year has been uh being emotionally available for kids.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Um one thing that there's a book uh by Chip Dodd called Parenting with Heart.
• 24:44
  Nate: Okay.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: And what he talks about in there, he doesn't talk about like tips for parenting, he talks about tips for the parent to be the best parent that they can be.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And what he says in the book and what he says overall is uh we can help our kids grow when we're emotionally healthy and stable.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And so I believe uh like what is really key and what I've learned over the years is the importance of being present with our kids emotionally.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: So when they uh I think about one of our kids when they're emotionally just longing to be with us, sometimes we go and we'll just lay in the bed with them and just give them the presence of being near and close and relationally available for them.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Um and I I believe I asked our church the question a couple weeks ago like, what does every child want from a parent?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And I believe the answer ultimately boils down to the reality is every child wants their parent to be relationally active in their lives.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: And what does that look like for that particular child?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And it's different than your other child.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And so I believe the biggest thing that every child wants from a parent is to be relationally active in the way that they need.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Um, and so that's being near, that's being close, that's being present, that's listening to them, helping them grow emotionally with sadness and fear and anger and and and shame and guilt and hurt.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And if we can walk with our kids through those emotions, we will create healthy kids who can grow from whatever uh season of life they're in to the adult maturity season that we all want for them.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And so I believe that's the biggest thing that I would want and and I would encourage parents to do is be relationally active with your kid, especially the weight that they need specifically.
• 26:57
  Nate: Gotcha, gotcha.
• 26:58
  Nate: So how do you balance that with you know helping you you said meant helping them navigate those emotions, you know, the sadness, the fear, what whatever, anger, even.
• 27:09
  Nate: So how do you balance between the this is a legitimate emotion, yeah, right?
• 27:13
  Nate: And and affirming that so that they don't just shut down, but then also not going to the other side and like feeding it of, you know, something happened at school, they're sad because a friend was mean to them, um, or especially when they get to older ages, it's uh, you know, a text thread or drama or whatever's happening, and you wanna you you don't want them to just shut out, right?
• 27:36
  Nate: But you also don't want to feed it and just them give in to their emotions.
• 27:40
  Nate: So how do you balance that as you're you're working through that with your kids?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So I think the biggest thing is helping them uh figure out what is the emotion that you're feeling and why are you feeling it?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: And then how does that uh interfere or how does that impact your identity in Christ?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Now, am I trying to so you take a kid who is just feeling sad in the moment?
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like is this sadness because you lost something or there is something that you value, or you just want pity and you want me to sympathize with it.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You know, so navigating with it as you know your kid, I think is a healthy place.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Um, but also just talking with them.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Like, why are you sad?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: And now let's let's figure out what's really happening in the midst of this sadness.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the conversations is actually what helps you be able to navigate that as a parent.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's trusting the Holy Spirit in the midst of it.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Because you you could want to be a parent of, I just don't want to feed in this right now.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I don't want to hear it.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: You're you're just competing.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: That's typically my reaction.
• 28:48
  Nate: Is it's just the look, stop it.
• 28:50
  Nate: You get over it in about five minutes and let's move on.
• 28:53
  Nate: Um, which is not always the best.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I think about I think about one moment we had um, and so uh we were at a a football game feeding for a team, and uh our kid was hit in the face with the ball, and uh our kid ran to us, and I just knew in the moment I wanted to say, no, get over it, you'll be okay.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: But what rub some dirty shake it off.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: But what my kid really wanted was he felt embarrassed because in front of a group of older high school kids, he got hit in the face with a ball, he just really wanted a moment to cry and be okay and he'll get over it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And so I just held him and uh he cried in my arms, and five seconds later he was just okay.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I think it's those moments where our kids want to say, I want a safe and secure place to be able to express what I'm going through.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And I know that you or the Holy Spirit will lead me to know what I need to do next.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And I think those are what what kids want more than anything, of a safe place to be able to share each emotion.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And I believe that your your calmness and the Holy Spirit helps them regulate to where they need to be.
• 30:07
  Nate: Gotcha.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Um, so I think it's moments like that that are sweet.
• 30:10
  Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:10
  Nate: And and having that, it's almost like home base.
• 30:13
  Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:14
  Nate: So they know they've got home base, and that actually gives them the courage to go out and do other things because they know they can come back and and find that safety if they they need it, um, when they need it.
• 30:26
  Nate: So that's that's a great, great uh, you know, example and illustration for for all of us.
• 30:31
  Nate: Um so kind of as we're we're winded down here at the end, you know, I've asked a lot of different questions, but when it comes to parenting, especially discipling young men, um what is a what is a question you wish more parents were asking that would help them better disciple their kids?
• 30:55
  Nate: Uh I don't know what I'm doing.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Can you help me?
• 30:59
  unknown: Okay.
• 31:00
  unknown: Good.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of parents feel like if they can't figure it out, then they fail instead of asking for help to navigate through.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: See, a parent won't be replaced, but they need resources to help them be present.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: And so a kid is not looking for uh another parent, they're looking for their parents to be present.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: But what often happens is we don't know what we're doing, we don't know the resources, and so we don't ask for help from others to help us.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Um and that's what I love about like man school resource.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: It's not that Rusty is trying to replace parents, he's trying to give parents tools to be able to do what God has already called them to do.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And so if more parents would would show their need for help, I think it would be a lot more um just resources and opportunities for uh others to step in and help or give resources so that they can flourish as parents.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Um and I love like here at the school, you know, you want to come alongside schools and parents to fulfill what they're already doing.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: So you're another resource to help parents to be able to fulfill the calling that God has given them.
• 32:21
  Nate: Yep.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: And if parents would ask for help, it could help the community around them actually uh grow holistic kids who can flourish.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Because we don't know everything.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: No, we don't, and we don't we don't have all the resources and we're not gifted in every single way.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And that's why the body is very important.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You think about First Corinthians, it says, hey, the eye is important just as the big toe.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Because they need each other.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And and that's what it is.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Like each parent needs each other in different seasons of life to help each other grow.
• 32:55
  Nate: Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
• 32:56
  Nate: I mean, and that's why we have this podcast, yeah, right.
• 32:58
  Nate: Uh so listener, you're at the right place.
• 33:00
  Nate: Um, make sure you subscribe.
• 33:02
  Nate: There we go.
• 33:02
  Nate: You got I got my plug in early.
• 33:04
  Nate: Um no, but that's good.
• 33:05
  Nate: So you mentioned resources.
• 33:07
  Nate: So man's school, obviously, for young men, raising them, you know, to be godly young men.
• 33:12
  Nate: Is there an equivalent like woman's school?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Man, I wish uh we've asked Rusty several times, like, is there a woman's school?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And we're like, he's like, I can point you to some good directions, but it's not any like resources that I know of currently.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Um, there are some good books that you can read that that focuses on kids in general, which I think are helpful.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think I've seen any program that kind of does that for for women.
• 33:40
  Nate: Yeah, and I think, you know, of course you mentioned from your own story, you know, not having that father figure.
• 33:45
  Nate: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Nate: I think that there's it's an epidemic in America.
• 33:47
  Nate: So we see that need when the the male figure is not in the child's life, you know, boy or girl, right?
• 33:54
  Nate: You see those ramifications.
• 33:55
  Nate: Right.
• 33:56
  Nate: Um, which I think that's a whole nother that's a whole nother episode.
• 33:59
  Nate: Maybe we'll get you back on for that one.
• 34:02
  Nate: So well, as we wrap this up, is there anything else you wish I had asked you, you know, for you to share uh with our listeners on this podcast?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Uh no, I think it was great uh questions, great conversation.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I just pray that, you know, parents, young men, and I would say young women as well would just you know be able to find uh that opportunity where others pour into them.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Um and so that's my encouragement and my hope.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I I believe that you know God has called us here uh in this community to to do that.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: And so I'm excited about what God is doing through us.
• 34:40
  Nate: That's awesome.
• 34:40
  Nate: Awesome.
• 34:41
  Nate: So if somebody wants to get a hold of the man school curriculum or or different resources, where can they they find that stuff?
• 34:47
  Nate: So manschool.co.co.
• 34:51
  Nate: Okay, we'll link that in the show notes.
• 34:53
  Nate: Yeah, you can go there.
• 34:55
  Nate: Uh well, thank you so much, Jamal, for joining us.
• 34:58
  Nate: This is this is great.
• 34:59
  Nate: And I mean, it sounds like we've got a couple other episodes that we need to record here sometime soon.
• 35:04
  Nate: Uh, and thank you all for listening to Equipped for Impact.
• 35:07
  Nate: Uh, if this episode encouraged you, please share it with another parent, especially a boy parent, uh, who could use this resource and be sure to subscribe so you can get more of these types of resources we're putting out here on the podcast.
• 35:21
  Nate: And so that you don't miss our next episode, where hopefully Lewis will be back with us uh and he can defend himself when it comes to breakfast for dinner.
• 35:30
  Nate: Until then, keep leading the next generation to stand firm in their faith and influence the world for Christ.