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How to Keep Your Employees Engaged with Jason Cochran (Part II) · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi.
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  It's Roxanne Derhodge of Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:40
  This week, my special guest is Jason Cochran.
• 0:43
  And he and I had such a great conversation with so much information packed in that we we
• 0:48
  started to tune it into a two part series.
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  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:55
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
• 1:01
  amazing conversation.
• 1:04
  I would say that oftentimes most leaders, you know, are are very they're very driven they're
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  one pointed.
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  They are very good at a certain subset, but sometimes what happens is they can put their
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  feet to the fire at a different temperature that's a little bit higher because they
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  compared to the people they're leading.
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  And what I find is that they because they can trudge through so many things without thinking
• 1:30
  of themselves that oftentimes a lot of, leaders end up coming to seek, coaching or executive
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  coaching, or any kind of support a little bit late.
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  So I often talk a little bit about understanding earlier what is my response?
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  Okay.
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  What parts am I in that window of tolerance of taking care of myself?
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  Or I'm not always tipped out that my expectations are so high of others around me
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  that I'm putting them under duress and I may not know it.
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  So let's talk a little bit about awareness from a stress perspective.
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  So with, with leaders, what kind of things do you kind of, deal with when leaders in
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  reference to stress that you find has been helpful, to helping them with awareness.
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  Yeah.
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  I love what you can share that's gonna be in your forthcoming book, and I can't wait to read
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  it, but that idea, the stress signature, is brilliant Roxanne, and obviously, you know,
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  with you being a psychotherapist and my background as a psychologist, I tend to think
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  of things.
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  Old habits are are hard to break.
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  I tend to think of in terms of antecedence, behavior, and consequences.
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  Yeah.
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  So what happens before a behavior, then you have the behavior, and then what happens after
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  it?
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  And a lot of the work we try and do is around the antecedent.
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  So what are the things?
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  What are the signals that you can tell?
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  Some of them are biological.
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  Like, if you can train yourself to be present in the moment and you can actually feel your
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  heart rate, you know, starting to increase, that's a sign.
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  That's a physiological response.
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  To stress.
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  It's not always a bad thing, but certainly it's something that you wanna be aware of that can
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  then start triggering certain kinds of inner dialogue again, back to the inner dialogue of
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  thoughts that you need to use to prime yourself for the situation that you're in.
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  So that you can handle it more appropriately.
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  So recognizing some of those physiological signs, sweaty palms, you know, things of that
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  nature, I think, are really important But then after that is once you recognize the signals,
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  then you gotta have the the tools in your tool belt.
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  Okay.
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  I'm recognizing this about myself.
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  Now how am I going to engage with this person?
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  And so, obviously, each person is gonna be a little bit different for some who who tend to
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  be a little bit more Oh, this happened.
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  I'm gonna go right now and go solve this.
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  Probably would be wise, you know, to take a little time.
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  You know, before something happens and to go, interject yourself into the situation, take
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  some time, you know, to do a little bit of research, some fact finding to understand it,
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  because we definitely have worked with leaders that very much are, well, I'm gonna go solve
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  this right now.
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  Mhmm.
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  And so they'll quote unquote grab the bull by the horns.
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  And so even though it may not be something that necessarily pertains to them, they see the
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  quickest way of dealing with it is for them to intervene and to do it.
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  And that can often backfire because now you may have undercut potentially a manager or a
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  supervisor who really should be the 1 in power to handle that situation.
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  Potentially with an employee or vice versa, you know, if it's something an employee is coming
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  to you with.
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  So I think there's always that balance of recognized junior signals and then making sure
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  you've got the tools in your toolbox, and that's where experts like you come in to really
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  help is they need a wide array of skills.
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  Obviously, you know, we could go on and on probably for an hour a half today.
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  Of, you know, brainstorming the different skills or things that we have have done with
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  leaders to put in their toolbox.
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  There's many of them but I think the the main point from that is every context can be or
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  situation can be unique.
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  And so the more tools that you have at your disposal if we're training those leaders and
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  equipping them with the skills to really be collaborative problem solvers, to think deeply
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  on the situation before acting, then that's gonna give you a higher probability of them
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  pulling a plan together that's going to work for the parties involved and come to a
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  successful resolution and seldom do I see the impulsiveness of this happened.
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  I'm gonna go take care of it right now.
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  There may be some situations that require that Like, if it's a safety measure or something
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  like that, but most decisions throughout the day or conflict or challenges that come up, the
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  prudent approach is to use those self awareness skills if you don't necessarily have them
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  enlisting support from a coach or a consultant.
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  That works on those things is absolutely critical.
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  And then once you have those skills, start to use them to really collaboratively problem
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  solve with your people, because as we know as therapists, you can't solve people's problems.
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  No.
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  I mean, many people think that's what we do.
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  And and, you know, when they when you start to say to them, you know, I can Harry, let's play
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  a game.
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  I'm gonna tell you exactly what to go out and do.
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  And I'm gonna write it out for you, and I'm gonna sign it.
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  And then you're gonna go out and you're gonna try it for a week.
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  Maybe you kinda go, oh, 2nd week, you're gonna fall flat, and you're gonna come back and
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  you're gonna be mad.
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  Because it's framed in my space versus yours.
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  Right?
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  And it's really about understanding of what, who, what, why, and when.
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  Like, you know that stuff in reference to what the fit is for that person.
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  And I think leaders as well, because leaders have they're well intentioned and they're you
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  know, they're they're driven and they get a lot done and, you know, those types of things.
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  But I even when working with, leaders in awareness, something is simple, and this is So
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  the strategy that I use with them is that they put alerts, have them put alerts on their
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  phone, to queue them up to actually do something to a presence based on the the type
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  that gets hyper or hypo.
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  So hyper is just like it sounds.
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  They get a little bit kind of, you know, frenetic or hypo means that they get frozen.
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  So throughout the day, this is something that I've done with a couple of CEOs I've been
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  working with, And they come back and they go, it can't be that simple.
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  And then they try it.
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  And then they come back and they're like, wow.
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  So I'll make them come up with something as silly as what's one of the songs that you,
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  like, every time you listen to it, it brings you back, you know, into, like, a happy place.
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  And then they'll, you know, they'll tell me.
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  So I say, okay.
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  Perfect.
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  That's gonna be one of your cues.
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  Okay.
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  So visually, you know, it's a if maybe for me, it would be an ocean.
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  Alright?
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  So then you're gonna, you know, load that on the top of your phone and sites out taste touch
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  smell, and I make them put those cues in with the, actual, alarms, and they come back, and
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  they're like, I can't believe it.
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  I, I did more.
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  Plus at the end of the day, I had energy.
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  I had energy to go back, you know, to come home and, you know, take my voice to the park or,
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  you know, to get out to have that swim or versus me completely depleted.
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  To the point where, you know, I still work the same amount of time, but because I took those
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  little breaks to kinda stay present, and I I was, you know, had a lot.
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  Stay the same things, balls in the air that I was, you know, oftentimes, the CEOs were
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  shocked that that they were experiencing because but they hadn't thought about that.
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  And it was very long.
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  It could be 2 minutes.
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  It could be, you know, something very simple.
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  And and then they kind of were present again, and then they could go on and be more
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  productive.
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  So again, it's that whole element of being mindful and being in the present.
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  So that you can kind of take that mental break.
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  Do something that replenishes you and go on again.
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  Music is so powerful to do that.
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  I I definitely have songs that I play whenever I'm about to step into certain kinds of
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  meetings to get my mindset right and something definitely on that category.
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  And I think what's so cool about that too is even musicians themselves, you know, talk about
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  having an alter ego that they step into before they hop in.
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  Beyonce.
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  I think Yeah.
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  Is it what what's her Sasha fears?
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  And she
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  Sasha fears.
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  Yes.
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  She said she came up with that.
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  And when she gets on sale, she's in that persona.
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  So I think When we think about being authentic, it's about could we all have these aspirations?
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  I'm sure you, Jason or myself with my family.
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  But we get driven, but then, you know, through the day, if you're not consistently taking
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  those little breaks to to do something to replenish, you know, then then we we see a lot
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  of, like you said, stress, which is positive, which is use stress.
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  That's one thing.
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  That helps us get out of bed and achieve.
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  But the other end is a short term impact of of stress.
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  And but then when we get into the longer term things where you see people like with short
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  term disability or the incidental absences go in.
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  That's showing you that your environment is kind of speaking back to you that's saying
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  there's more arbitration.
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  There's most sick days you're tracking her of intels incidental absences are going up, that
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  we need to do something.
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  And that's where you know, to your point, and I love and my book is based on that as well with
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  I have an assessment that all the authentic card leadership skills the leader gets assessed
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  on it.
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  And then not only does the leader, assess themselves, but their teams assess the leader
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  as and then as the leader goes through the training, the team continues to kind of bench
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  how the leader's doing.
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  So oftentimes, we kind of have metrics for employees, but why shouldn't it be, both ways?
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  If we're rating, creating change in reference to training.
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  That's so true.
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  Absolutely.
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  I mean, obviously, candor is important.
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  When it comes to any of us developing and growing, we need honest feedback, and we need
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  people to not hold back because they're worried about hurting feelings or things like And the
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  only way we get there is by building trust with each other, and authentic leaders have that.
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  And that's what helps them to continue to as fire and grow is because they're getting real
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  feedback.
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  Their people aren't afraid to step up and say, hey.
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  As great as you are, here's here's some things that weren't handled very well from my
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  perspective.
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  Mhmm.
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  You know, over the last month.
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  And those are the leaders that are going to get the feedback that's gonna help them take the
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  next step and take their company and organization and their people to the next
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  level, you know, psychological safety, you know, just in terms of how important that is,
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  to have that.
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  But even outside of business, we all need that in our lives.
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  I remember, the the church we go to our our pastor He now has, a separate business.
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  He does.
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  He does some leadership consulting.
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  And I remember one Sunday, he shared about the importance of having 3 to 4 mentors He believes
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  that constellation of mentors in your life for those different aspects or context of our
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  lives.
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  He was talked about having a mentor you know, someone that's within your family doesn't
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  necessarily have to be your spouse or your kids, but someone who gets the family context
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  of your life that can give you feedback on on how you're doing, how they perceive, you know,
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  that you're doing.
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  Someone, you know, from the business world, someone in your friend world.
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  And when you have that constellation of people that you can count on that aren't gonna hold
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  back and are gonna be honest with you because they care about you, that really helps you to
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  develop that self awareness signal.
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  And and really understand how you're doing.
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  I like the word you used to benchmark to kind of benchmark yourself.
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  How am I doing as a dad?
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  How am I doing as a husband?
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  How am I doing as a leader in the organization?
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  How am I doing as a friend?
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  And, you know, just getting those inputs, if if you've put in the work to really cultivate
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  those relationships with people, they're gonna be honored to be asked to be a mentor.
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  They'll say, absolutely.
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  You know, I'll I'll be happy to to do that and to provide some feedback as best I can.
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  And when he shared that, I thought that was a really unique way also that that concept of
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  having a constellation of mentors for different aspects of your life.
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  And that's something that I'm working on.
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  I have someone that my family and my friends, but I need to start working on more within the
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  business aspect of things.
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  To help with that.
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  Well, I I, you know, one of the I think one of the questions in the book is I ask, the the
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  leaders when they're finding out information.
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  I say, take one of your children.
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  Obviously, one of them that can understand that concept and ask them how they know when you're
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  stressed versus not.
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  As so that they could get feedback from, say, you know, one of their children because that
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  may be what you're mirroring at work, but oftentimes people may not, you know, feel safe
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  enough to your point psychologically to say, hey, you know, Roxanne, you know, when you're,
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  you know, stress.
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  You seem to do this, this, or this.
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  You're more equipped or whatever.
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  And it's it's it's that knowledge again because you're the whole person and most, you know, I I
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  interviewed a couple of authentic leaders.
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  And the one parallel that I I learned from them is that they said, Most of them were in
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  service, meaning they were in service in some way in their life.
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  And this particular, leader that I interviewed He talked a little bit about being humbled
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  because he said, initially, when he got into leadership, you know, he was, you know, yes, he
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  had thoughts of what it what it was to be a good leader, but then he was a bit ego driven.
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  And as he grew as a person and he was on a several, social organizations boards, then he
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  really started to realize the importance of that reflective mirror back to him because when
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  he was serving, he was in a different space to being the CEO.
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  And he said what he he learned was that I really needed to recognize that I'm just like
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  everybody else, I needed the same things, and I was not, in fact, there's not a strata and
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  more, you know, shoulder to shoulder.
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  When I was like that, from his personal life when he was going out there into his community
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  and making a difference.
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  And he brought that back into his company.
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  He said he saw the productivity of company just go through the roof because then everybody felt
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  like they were as important as he was, which she said it took a lot of his internal growth
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  to get to that space.
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  And then, you know, when the pandemic hit, he made 200 phone calls to every one of his
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  employees.
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  To say, you know, first of all, people were like freaking out because they thought, oh, no.
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  The CEO is calling me.
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  And then he says, I just wanted to let you know, we're all in this together.
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  Nobody will lose their jobs.
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  We may have to adjust things accordingly, and I'm here if you never need anything, which what
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  what a powerful space to come from.
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  So even his interviewing these leaders and talking to them about their steps of
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  development was amazing.
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  It was research that I was doing for my book, but it also helped me to reflect on my life and
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  what kind of leader am I being in my life as well?
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, absolutely, that idea of service you know, in servant leadership that that's what
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  gets people to it's it's their choice whether they're gonna follow you or not.
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  You know, you you can't force them.
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  I mean, you can, but it's not gonna work well.
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  Right?
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  Short term.
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  And then long term, you realize it's it's kind of, the people need to see that congruence
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  between, you know, if I were to see, you know, here in Canada on the hockey rink versus in the
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  boardroom.
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  Am I any different?
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  Am I the same person?
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  And, you know, we all need to feel like the person we're working with or for is is kind of
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  the same person in every, space of their life, and that's you know, with a lot of the leaders
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  that I work with, they're the ones that are really wanting to, to, like you said, they're
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  wanting to do better.
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  They're wanting to learn, some Some companies will come to me where there's been an issue.
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  And oftentimes, you know, there's need for education of that company on psychological
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  safety first before they can do the authentic, leadership development.
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  Because if you've got kind of pervasive themes of lack of safety, lack of trust, ineffective
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  leadership practices, those types of things.
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  You have to acknowledge them and, you know, say, okay, this is how we're gonna repair it,
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  but you can't jump into, you know, I'm I was inauthentic yesterday, and guess what?
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  Today, we have, every, you know, bell and whistles that authentic, that's like, you know,
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  shooting yourself in the foot by figuratively.
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  So I think with a lot of companies, they're recognized through the last couple of years,
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  what's happened is, unfortunately, by the pandemic, most people have had, to learned that
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  lesson on, unfortunately, the hard way.
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  So a lot of companies that worth worth surviving maybe with unresolved issues.
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  That was one thing, but the ones that really wanted where to connection was those are the
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  ones that, we've seen thriving.
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  No doubt about it.
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  The healthy business to connection, companies are the ones that are thriving in the pandemic.
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  They're not losing sleep at night wondering whether or not people are showing up to work.
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  They know they are because they've already been pouring into them for years.
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  They spent the time creating a culture, where people know that they're cared for, that
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  they're able to speak up if there are certain things that need to change and that there's
• 18:55
  follow through.
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  On those things.
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  You know, we talk so much about so many different variables that go into healthy
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  business to employee relationships.
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  But really at the end of the day, a lot of it's pretty simple motivating things.
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  People want a lot of freedom and the decisions that they make.
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  They wanna be recognized and appreciated beyond just their paycheck and perks, but they need to
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  hear it and needs to be specific.
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  And then, they also want some flexibility as well, especially now.
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  And I get that.
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  I'm blessed that I'm able to do that I have 4 young 40 young boys here at home that are age
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  seven and under.
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  And, you know, if I, you know, we're somewhere else, I'd miss out on a lot of buildings.
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  Twins that just turned 1, I wouldn't have been able to see them take their first steps, you
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  know, here at home.
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  And so, you know, those companies that already had been doing these things for several years,
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  you know, are the ones that are navigating the storm really well.
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  And certain industries, companies, you know, that didn't put in the time for those things.
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  You know, now's the time.
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  Yes, I know that you still feel like your, you know, the ship might still be sinking in terms
• 20:01
  of people not showing up.
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  Don't put it off another day.
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  Whatever those things are that you've received from people saying, hey.
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  We can help you.
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  We can help you with your people strategy, get started on it now.
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  And, yes, it might take some time before you start to see the results, but each day that you
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  wait, is making that day when things finally start to click be pushed out later and later
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  and later.
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  And we're just at a at a point now in the labor market where people are figuring out what does
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  work mean in my life.
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  They're asking higher level questions than they used.
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  They're thinking about their life.
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  They're dreaming again.
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  Mhmm.
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  What's the vision for my life?
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  And does the current work that I do fit within that picture?
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  Well, if they're working for a leader, that that they know cares about them and has created
• 20:53
  a healthy culture within the organization with everyone, they're more likely to stay even if
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  it's a job, maybe that they don't see themselves doing their whole life, they're
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  probably likely to stay and continue making great contributions for longer.
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  Than if it's one where they just feel like they're punching in and out, and it's just,
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  okay, I'm just putting one foot in front of the other.
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  Each day, and that's not motivating.
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  And all of that, the consistent theme is, as you mentioned, Roxanne is It's about the
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  leadership.
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  It starts at the top.
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  I know everyone contributes to the culture, but if you don't have leadership, leading, guiding,
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  directing the way, saying, you know, this is the the way that we want our culture to be that
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  we want to have psychological safety.
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  We're gonna invest in it to make sure that we do it really well.
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  Then it won't happen if leadership's not on board.
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  And it's just interesting to me that we we finally hit a point in human history, I think,
• 21:55
  where a lot of these things that seemed, oh, well, that's just a bunch of, you know, hippie
• 22:01
  baloney, you know, or or even automation.
• 22:05
  It seemed like science fiction for so long, and here we are right now where we need automation
• 22:11
  so that automation can help do certain jobs that people don't want to do.
• 22:15
  We need automation that can help people get more done with their jobs, their repetitive
• 22:19
  things.
• 22:20
  Because more is being thrown on their plate because they're working more hours to try and
• 22:25
  keep up with productivity.
• 22:27
  We need healthy culture and people now it's not just a bunch of, you know, hippie kind of
• 22:32
  stuff, but we need it because that's what your business needs, your people, are the most
• 22:37
  important aspect of your business and your employees are your first customer.
• 22:42
  If they aren't feeling good, about the relationship they have with the organization
• 22:47
  and the people within it, then your customers aren't gonna feel that way either.
• 22:52
  And so that's why these things are are so important, I believe, right now.
• 22:56
  And authentic leadership is absolutely that cornerstone piece that has to be in place first
• 23:04
  before you start building and adding the other components to it.
• 23:08
  You've got to have those pieces, and that's why the work that you're doing right now is so
• 23:14
  critical and so important and that we get it right And, again, for those organizations, if
• 23:20
  you haven't started it, don't sweat it.
• 23:22
  Don't beat yourself up.
• 23:23
  Let that go.
• 23:24
  Today is the day.
• 23:26
  It matched up with Roxanne, some other experts, you know, in the in the area that may be close
• 23:31
  by to you that can help with this because This has everything to do with the health and
• 23:38
  wellness of your people and the health and wellness of your business.
• 23:42
  It's that important.
• 23:44
  Absolutely.
• 23:45
  It couldn't have been, better said.
• 23:47
  Now, Jason, I think you are right.
• 23:50
  You and I can probably talk for a very long time.
• 23:52
  So What I'd like you to do is to, you know, tell people if they're interested in
• 23:58
  understanding more about, how to engage.
• 24:01
  Like you said, today is as perfect of a day.
• 24:04
  And we're talking about snippets of, knowledge that can help.
• 24:09
  That's, you know, I know with, your company.
• 24:12
  That's something that you do.
• 24:13
  So let people know where they can get a hold of you if they wanted to consult to understand
• 24:17
  some of the things that you do further.
• 24:19
  Yeah.
• 24:20
  Thank you, Roxanne.
• 24:20
  Yeah.
• 24:20
  The best way to get ahold of me is on LinkedIn.
• 24:23
  I love the platform.
• 24:25
  I'm on there many times throughout the day.
• 24:28
  So feel free to send me a direct message, Jason Cochran, with due lead.
• 24:34
  And then you can check our company out at duelead.com that's d as in dog, u l e a, d as
• 24:42
  in dog, dot com, and you can kinda see how we're trying to help lead the way in terms of
• 24:49
  automation with a lot of the people processes, to keep things moving the the ingredients that
• 24:54
  help make a a healthy culture.
• 24:57
  Thanks so much again for your time.
• 24:59
  So what am I walking away with?
• 25:00
  I'm walking away with the fact your first customers, your employees.
• 25:06
  If we keep that in mind, and we recognize that and that's you know, shows us even more so as
• 25:12
  as leaders that we need to be, authentic within ourselves the more where we are, the more
• 25:19
  authentic we're able to kind of, create the space around us.
• 25:22
  And then I I say that everything takes care of itself.
• 25:26
  So if ever if anyone listening would like to have a a coaching call with me, please reach
• 25:32
  out.
• 25:32
  It's roxanderhodge.com.
• 25:34
  We can talk a little bit about some of the things that Jason and I talked about today for
• 25:38
  yourself and your teams, I would love to help out.
• 25:40
  So again, Jason, thanks so much and for everyone.
• 25:43
  I'll talk to you next week.
• 25:44
  Take care.
• 25:45
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 25:51
  healthy change.
• 25:52
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker cycle therapist and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 25:59
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 26:02
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.