Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / WHERE'S KELLY? Cheese shop, shoes & golf bag solve Kelly Dwyer mystery?

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WHERE'S KELLY? Cheese shop, shoes & golf bag solve Kelly Dwyer mystery? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: A beautiful young girl goes missing, twenty seven year old
0:07
Speaker 1: Kelly Dwyer, seemingly without a trace. Her friends at Lululemon call,
0:11
Speaker 1: it seems to go straight into voicemail as if it's dead.
0:14
Speaker 1: When was she seen by an independent witness. They're not
0:18
Speaker 1: a law of interest, they're not an ex boyfriend, they're
0:21
Speaker 1: not an arch enemy at work that we know of.
0:25
Speaker 1: And that's very, very critical where you're trying to establish
0:27
Speaker 1: a timeline, that you do it independently, such as with
0:31
Speaker 1: video surveillance or witnesses that don't have a grudge or
0:34
Speaker 1: a romantic interest. What happened to Kelly Dwyer? This is
0:39
Speaker 1: crime Stories Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It was somewhat
0:54
Speaker 1: unusual for someone to just vanish out of thin air,
0:59
Speaker 1: especially actually on the East side of Milwaukee. Kelly Dwyer.
1:06
Speaker 1: She is a young woman that is out trying to
1:10
Speaker 1: discover herself. You see this bright eyed, smiling, beautiful girl
1:16
Speaker 1: who really seemed to have a lot of life and vitality.
1:22
Speaker 1: We got to spend quite a bit of time together
1:24
Speaker 1: in the yoga room. It was rare not to see her,
1:27
Speaker 1: and I had just assumed she was on an adventure
1:29
Speaker 1: of some sort. October twelfth, twenty thirteen, she did not
1:35
Speaker 1: show up for work. Her co workers were absolutely the
1:41
Speaker 1: first to respond. Kelly was very tied to her cell phone,
1:45
Speaker 1: always posting on social media, always texting. When they called
1:50
Speaker 1: Kelly's cell phone, it went straight to voicemail. Kelly Dwyer
1:55
Speaker 1: is missing. Solving the mystery behind the disappearance of a
1:59
Speaker 1: beautiful young girl, a Wisconsin woman just vanishing seemingly into
2:04
Speaker 1: thin air. What happened to Kelly Dwyer just twenty seven
2:09
Speaker 1: years old. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
2:13
Speaker 1: you for being with us, with me an all star panel.
2:16
Speaker 1: Julie Wendelman, New York defense attorney. Cloyd Steiger thirty six years,
2:21
Speaker 1: Seattle PD, twenty two years homicide detective and author of
2:25
Speaker 1: Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer. Gary Jane Grant, I haven't forgotten
2:30
Speaker 1: Gary Jane Grant, renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. Doctor
2:35
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Chris Sperry,
2:38
Speaker 1: former chief medical Examiner for the State of Georgia, but
2:42
Speaker 1: right now to Crime online dot com. Investigative reporter Levi Paige.
2:47
Speaker 1: First of all, who is Kelly Dwyer? Tell me about Kelly.
2:50
Speaker 1: Let's start with that. Nancy. She's a twenty seven year
2:53
Speaker 1: old young woman and she worked at a clothing store,
2:57
Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon, which is a athletic clothing store. Okay, wait
3:02
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, Levi, Levi Levi. First of all,
3:06
Speaker 1: let me tell you what Lululemon is. Okay, just frame
3:09
Speaker 1: of reference. My daughter got invited to a very fancy
3:14
Speaker 1: birthday party. Okay, Lucy asked the girl, what would you
3:19
Speaker 1: like for your birthday? Well, the girl said Lululemon whatever,
3:27
Speaker 1: yoga pants and I didn't know this part till later.
3:31
Speaker 1: A silver necklace with my nestal on it. So Lucy knee.
3:35
Speaker 1: Once we went we went online to find Lululemon. The
3:39
Speaker 1: yoga pants were eighty six dollars eighty six dollars plus shipping,
3:45
Speaker 1: which the shipping's worth it to me, so I don't
3:46
Speaker 1: have to go to the mall. So we did that.
3:49
Speaker 1: Little did I know she went behind my back to
3:51
Speaker 1: her dad to get the silver necklace too, because the
3:54
Speaker 1: girl is the it girl at school, all right, So
3:57
Speaker 1: when I find out about the necklace, I'm like you
3:59
Speaker 1: know what, This is more than I ever got from
4:01
Speaker 1: my birthday in my whole life. But okay, if fine,
4:05
Speaker 1: all right, So then of course the yoga pants don't fit.
4:08
Speaker 1: They're not the right side. So we have to go
4:10
Speaker 1: to the store, which is my nightmare. We get there,
4:14
Speaker 1: there's not one thing in there under about ninety dollars.
4:17
Speaker 1: That is what Lululemon is. Yes, the stuff is awesome,
4:21
Speaker 1: but that is a place where the really rich, wealthy
4:26
Speaker 1: and wealthy wannabes with credit cards show up to fit
4:30
Speaker 1: in and their exercise classes. They all have to have
4:33
Speaker 1: Lululemon on their yoga pants. Okay, I'm just telling you
4:36
Speaker 1: what it is. The stuff's awesome. I'm sure. Now back
4:39
Speaker 1: to Lululemon, go ahead. So she works there, she loves
4:43
Speaker 1: her job, she's extremely tighten it with her co workers,
4:47
Speaker 1: and on October twelve, twenty thirteen, she doesn't show up
4:50
Speaker 1: to work and her co workers take notice. They try
4:53
Speaker 1: to Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold hold on right
4:56
Speaker 1: there again, Sorry, LEVI don't I don't think you're understanding this.
5:00
Speaker 1: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts, I did notice something when I
5:02
Speaker 1: was at lulu Lemmon they're a bunch of perfect looking
5:06
Speaker 1: people working there, but they're extremely friendly and they it's
5:11
Speaker 1: like a little subculture, like they're all into exercising, they're
5:16
Speaker 1: all into yoga there. Yes, they're salespeople. They have a
5:22
Speaker 1: specialty though, they know all about this genre and they're
5:25
Speaker 1: very tight knit and the reality is at work. For instance,
5:30
Speaker 1: I'm meeting up with a former prosecutor I worked with
5:33
Speaker 1: and that was twenty years ago. We're meeting up for lunch.
5:37
Speaker 1: There's some kind of camaraderie there that you get from
5:40
Speaker 1: being with someone every day. And I gotta tell you,
5:43
Speaker 1: I will say this, even though the stuff was so overpriced,
5:45
Speaker 1: the people they were super friendly and they all looked perfect,
5:48
Speaker 1: which makes me think Kelly Dwyer looked perfect too well.
5:51
Speaker 1: Not only that, Nancy. Yes, they're a community and it
5:53
Speaker 1: is you may learn through Lucy in future years. They
5:57
Speaker 1: will talor the clothing, even though it's outlet where they'll
6:00
Speaker 1: shorten the shorts or lengthen them. Put your monogram on right?
6:04
Speaker 1: Why white white? Stop? Stop? What did you just say
6:07
Speaker 1: about tailoring? The y have sewing machines in the store
6:12
Speaker 1: where they will tighten them. They will shorten them. They
6:16
Speaker 1: will shorten the top. I mean, I'm sorry, but they
6:19
Speaker 1: all look like size too to me. Just they'll just
6:21
Speaker 1: put that out there, Okay, go ahead. They have a
6:24
Speaker 1: tailor there for exercise parts. They do. It's the perfect fit.
6:28
Speaker 1: Now is that justin Beverly Hills or over the place? World?
6:31
Speaker 1: World that I would know from experience? Okay, you just
6:34
Speaker 1: taught me something. But you know, but what about that camaraderie?
6:38
Speaker 1: Why is it the coworkers that notice somebody's done. Here's
6:41
Speaker 1: what I notice about that store and about the stories
6:43
Speaker 1: you cover in general, when it happens to be a
6:46
Speaker 1: group of young people, when somebody doesn't show up, they
6:50
Speaker 1: notice it because they're all on social media. They track
6:53
Speaker 1: each other. Unlike you know, if you or I didn't
6:56
Speaker 1: show up at a dinner party, I might assume you
6:58
Speaker 1: know your child was thick, might assume that you know
7:01
Speaker 1: my husband and I are, you know, having an evening
7:03
Speaker 1: trying to hash something out. Something else came up. These
7:06
Speaker 1: young people not only wait a minute, you hash things
7:09
Speaker 1: out with your husband, I just say save until the
7:11
Speaker 1: tourists go to college. Put a pan at it. Okay,
7:14
Speaker 1: go ahead, I'll leave you your candle at dinners but
7:17
Speaker 1: you know what, they're very they follow each other. So
7:19
Speaker 1: did you hear what we just applied it? They all
7:21
Speaker 1: do yoga together, yes, yes, so they're part of a community.
7:25
Speaker 1: And not only that, but they probably are all on
7:27
Speaker 1: Instagram together. I don't know if you've been to some
7:29
Speaker 1: of these exercise classes, but the yoga instructors actually take
7:33
Speaker 1: videos they posted on their Instagram. This is something they
7:35
Speaker 1: do to increase their following. So you know, when somebody
7:38
Speaker 1: can't get ahold of somebody else, they look on Instagram,
7:41
Speaker 1: they look on Facebook, they look on Snapchat and Twitter.
7:44
Speaker 1: So it is very easy in this community to know
7:47
Speaker 1: that somebody has gone missing. Unlike thirty years ago when
7:51
Speaker 1: you didn't you know, a day pass and you didn't
7:53
Speaker 1: call your mother. Now it's an hour passes and everybody
7:56
Speaker 1: notices that the pattern has shifted and you're no longer
7:59
Speaker 1: doing things. You know what, You're absolutely right. And Jackie
8:05
Speaker 1: here is gesticulating wildly to tell me that she's all
8:10
Speaker 1: over social media to Cloyd Steiger, homicide detective author of
8:17
Speaker 1: Seattle's Forgotten serial killer, Gary Jane Grant, Cloyd, she's got
8:22
Speaker 1: a really good point. Somebody that's on social media all
8:26
Speaker 1: the time, people notice when you're missing. But I'm still
8:28
Speaker 1: befuddled regarding it's a coworker that reports her missing. Well, yeah,
8:32
Speaker 1: she probably is one of those people that's always on
8:34
Speaker 1: time for work, and it just this pattern of behavior
8:37
Speaker 1: that suddenly changes. She's not you know, maybe she's five
8:39
Speaker 1: minutes late sometimes, but she just doesn't show. And that's really,
8:42
Speaker 1: actually very common way that we find homicide victims is
8:46
Speaker 1: they don't show up for work and then somebody goes
8:48
Speaker 1: to the house and check on them and finds them
8:49
Speaker 1: missing there, which wasn't the case in this instance. But
8:52
Speaker 1: that's actually really common. And the social media thing is
8:56
Speaker 1: exactly right. Everybody's on it all the time, and which
9:00
Speaker 1: is great for detectives trying to track somebody's behavior. But
9:05
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not surprised that are co workers are
9:07
Speaker 1: the ones that called. That's right, as Levi Page with
9:09
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com is telling us, when Kelly didn't
9:12
Speaker 1: show up for work, her co workers were the very
9:14
Speaker 1: first ones to respond. They called her cell phone and
9:17
Speaker 1: they checked. As doctor Bethany Marshall pointed out her social media,
9:22
Speaker 1: you know, Levi Page, I don't know why you took
9:24
Speaker 1: me on a wild goose Chase talking about the expense
9:27
Speaker 1: of yoga pants at Lululemon. But that's totally irrelevant, Levi,
9:32
Speaker 1: and I chastise you for bringing it up. Now, Chris
9:36
Speaker 1: Barry with me, former chief medical Examiner in the State
9:38
Speaker 1: of Georgia. Chris, you and I hashed out many, many
9:42
Speaker 1: autopsy reports together. I don't know if you remember sitting
9:46
Speaker 1: there muttering under your breath and looking at your watch,
9:49
Speaker 1: and I would say, well, what does this mean? And
9:53
Speaker 1: what's ahem atoma? Now you see what took me so
9:56
Speaker 1: long investigating the case. For Ris, it's a whole different language.
10:01
Speaker 1: It's a whole different language. But right now we're talking
10:04
Speaker 1: about Kelly Dwyer crime stories with Nancy Grace. It was
10:21
Speaker 1: somewhat unusual for someone to just vanish out of thin air,
10:26
Speaker 1: especially on the East side of Milwaukee. Kelly Dwyer, she
10:34
Speaker 1: is a young woman that is out trying to discover herself.
10:38
Speaker 1: You see this bright eyed, smiling, beautiful girl who really
10:43
Speaker 1: seemed to have a lot of life and vitality. We
10:49
Speaker 1: got to spend quite a bit of time together in
10:51
Speaker 1: the yoga room. It was rare not to see her,
10:54
Speaker 1: and I had just assumed she was on an adventure
10:56
Speaker 1: of some sort. October twelfth, twenty thirteen, she did not
11:03
Speaker 1: show up for work. Her co workers were absolutely the
11:08
Speaker 1: first to respond. Kelly was very tied to her cell phone,
11:12
Speaker 1: always posting on social media, always texting. When they called
11:18
Speaker 1: Kelly's cell phone, it went straight to Voicemavid Kelly Dwyer
11:22
Speaker 1: is missing. A beautiful young girl goes missing twenty seven
11:25
Speaker 1: year old Kelly Dwyer seemilarly without a trace to Leavipage
11:29
Speaker 1: crime online dot com investigative reporter. So her friends at
11:32
Speaker 1: Lululemon call in. Who do they call? They call her
11:36
Speaker 1: cell phone. It seems to go straight to voicemail, as
11:38
Speaker 1: if it's dead. What else happens? Then that at the
11:41
Speaker 1: very critical first few hours of realizing she's not reporting
11:45
Speaker 1: to work, they also noticed that her social media is gone,
11:49
Speaker 1: not that she hasn't posted on social media, but that
11:52
Speaker 1: all of her social media accounts are deleted. They're vaporized.
11:56
Speaker 1: There's no footprint on the Internet of her social media accounts,
12:00
Speaker 1: which is extremely unusual because she was very active on there.
12:03
Speaker 1: She would post about her yoga routines and workouts on
12:07
Speaker 1: social media regularly. Let's go old school le Vi page.
12:10
Speaker 1: When was the last time she was actually seen? Forget
12:14
Speaker 1: about cell phones and social media, When was she seen
12:18
Speaker 1: by an independent witness? So she was seen at a
12:23
Speaker 1: bar in Milwaukee with her boyfriend, Chris Zoko. She'd been
12:28
Speaker 1: dating him for a year. He's thirty eight years old,
12:31
Speaker 1: he worked at a relocation management company as the chief
12:35
Speaker 1: information officer, and they ate pizza at this bar. Well,
12:39
Speaker 1: it seems to me to Julie Rendelman, new York defense attorney,
12:44
Speaker 1: the first thing you would do is round up everybody
12:46
Speaker 1: that was out eating pizza the night before she goes missing. Yeah,
12:49
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the person you're going to focus
12:51
Speaker 1: on is the guy she's eating pizza with, because that
12:53
Speaker 1: seems to be at least says we know at this
12:56
Speaker 1: point the last person that was seen with her alive,
12:58
Speaker 1: So we'd want to know what he has to say
13:00
Speaker 1: in terms of where she was the left time he's here.
13:03
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about that scenario, Decloyd steig or Cloyd,
13:07
Speaker 1: is that there are a lot of independent witnesses there,
13:09
Speaker 1: people that won't have a dog in the fight, skin
13:12
Speaker 1: in the game. What I mean by that is her
13:14
Speaker 1: girlfriends from work, they were together and they all go
13:17
Speaker 1: home to their own places, and you can verify where
13:20
Speaker 1: everybody was before, during, and right after except Kelly Dwyer.
13:25
Speaker 1: Those are what I call independent witnesses. They're not a
13:28
Speaker 1: love interest, they're not an ex boyfriend, they're not an
13:32
Speaker 1: arch enemy at work that we know of. And that's very,
13:35
Speaker 1: very critical when you're trying to establish a timeline, that
13:38
Speaker 1: you do it independently, such as with video surveillance or
13:42
Speaker 1: witnesses that don't have a grudge or a romantic interest. Yeah,
13:46
Speaker 1: that's a good thing about a case like this. There
13:48
Speaker 1: are a lot of independent witnesses. Although the video is
13:52
Speaker 1: priceless and golden in this case, and tracking down all
13:55
Speaker 1: the video is something you want to do so you
13:57
Speaker 1: can see where she's been and watch her movements, and
14:00
Speaker 1: you don't have to you do want to talk to
14:01
Speaker 1: the witnesses, but you can look for yourself and see
14:03
Speaker 1: that nothing happened at the bar. Of course, these are
14:07
Speaker 1: women she works with. Statistically, women are less likely to
14:10
Speaker 1: commit a serious crime on another person. Why do we
14:15
Speaker 1: not believe that she just went off the grid? What
14:19
Speaker 1: about that? Did doctor Bethany Marshall? It's tough to go
14:21
Speaker 1: off the grid. It's really tough to rid the grid.
14:25
Speaker 1: So what about this woman, Kelly darn makes you believe
14:28
Speaker 1: she didn't just say, you know what, I'm fed up
14:30
Speaker 1: with the city life, fed up with social media. I'm
14:33
Speaker 1: fed up with the whole shebang. I'm out of here.
14:36
Speaker 1: You look Nancy in a word, her attachment systems. She
14:40
Speaker 1: was attached, She had friends, she had family. She was dating,
14:43
Speaker 1: not only Zoko, but I understand other people. So women
14:48
Speaker 1: likely will not abandon their attachment systems. Now, every once
14:53
Speaker 1: in a while you'll have a mother who's not bonded
14:55
Speaker 1: with their children, and the mother takes off and abandons
14:57
Speaker 1: the family. That is rare in that as an outlier,
15:00
Speaker 1: in this case, she would not have left her friends
15:03
Speaker 1: and family behind leg I page. I just heard doctor
15:05
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall's state that she was not only dating Chris Zoko,
15:09
Speaker 1: she was dating other people as well. Yeah, she had
15:11
Speaker 1: a profile on some dating apps and was dating other
15:16
Speaker 1: people as well, But Chris Zoko was the main person
15:20
Speaker 1: that she was dating, and her friends said that that
15:23
Speaker 1: was her most serious boyfriend, that they were really getting serious. Well, okay,
15:28
Speaker 1: if you're serious, you don't have dating profiles up. Now,
15:31
Speaker 1: that opens up a whole nother can of worms for
15:33
Speaker 1: me if you're still on dating websites, which I'm perfectly
15:36
Speaker 1: fine with. Dating websites is how my nephew found his wife.
15:39
Speaker 1: They're happily married with a baby boy that just turned two.
15:42
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that there are now several males in
15:46
Speaker 1: the mix that we have to look at. Agree or disagree, Lloyd, Well,
15:50
Speaker 1: I agree you have to look at her profile and
15:52
Speaker 1: see where she who she contacted. But you know, to
15:56
Speaker 1: your question of why she had a dating site when
15:58
Speaker 1: she supposedly loves this guy, or maybe she says that
16:01
Speaker 1: he wasn't into it as much as she was, and
16:03
Speaker 1: that's something that was going on, And so you can
16:05
Speaker 1: get her dating site activity and see who she connected with,
16:09
Speaker 1: see if she told anybody I'm going to meet you
16:10
Speaker 1: somewhere and that type of thing, and then follow up
16:12
Speaker 1: on those leaves. Listen. According to Chanelle Royston, before Kelly
16:17
Speaker 1: Dwyer disappeared, it seemed her relationship with Chris Sacho was evolving.
16:22
Speaker 1: Did Kelly ever tell you that she was falling in
16:26
Speaker 1: love with Chris? She never told me, but you could
16:28
Speaker 1: tell you know how she would look at him, that
16:31
Speaker 1: she was looking for something more, and I think that
16:34
Speaker 1: she did love him at that point. It turns out
16:38
Speaker 1: Zacho may have been in love as well with someone else.
16:43
Speaker 1: He was in a very serious relationship with a woman
16:47
Speaker 1: who he was dating at the time that he was
16:48
Speaker 1: seeing Kelly. And this young woman knew nothing about the
16:52
Speaker 1: relationship with Kelly. And did Kelly had any idea about
16:54
Speaker 1: this other woman? Absolutely not, and neither did investigators Leavi
17:00
Speaker 1: Page Crime online dot Com investigative reporters. So both of
17:03
Speaker 1: them are dating other people. Is that right? Yes, that
17:07
Speaker 1: is correct. Okay, so let me understand they're not in
17:12
Speaker 1: love as her friends thought they were. They're dating other people.
17:16
Speaker 1: That changes the landscape of the search. But of course,
17:20
Speaker 1: according to statistics, it's typically a husband, a boyfriend, or
17:24
Speaker 1: an x that is responsible when somebody goes missing. And then,
17:29
Speaker 1: based on those statistics, they speak to the boyfriend, they
17:32
Speaker 1: take a look at his cell phone. Listen to this.
17:36
Speaker 1: During his interview, he seemed flip even when asked routine
17:40
Speaker 1: questions about his medical history. Nothing like that answer. Okay,
17:47
Speaker 1: but Noah, don't say anything for it. Okay, no bro,
17:51
Speaker 1: but no bipolar. I suppose that's all open to interpretation
17:56
Speaker 1: with somebody Pacho's interrogation and finishes abruptly. But while they
18:03
Speaker 1: had Zacho in custody, police get a warrant to search
18:06
Speaker 1: his cell phone, hoping to find clues in Kelly's disappearance.
18:11
Speaker 1: They were stunned to find a video of Zacho and
18:14
Speaker 1: Kelly Dwyer engaged in a sex act where Kelly appears
18:19
Speaker 1: to be in distress. She can't breathe, She's straining for breath.
18:24
Speaker 1: When was his video taken? The video was taken approximately
18:29
Speaker 1: three weeks before she went missing. Crime Stories with Nancy
18:43
Speaker 1: Grace So on Monday, October fourteenth, I started my shift
18:52
Speaker 1: at four pm. I learned that Kelly Dwyer, a young woman,
18:58
Speaker 1: had been reported missing and had not been seen or
19:02
Speaker 1: heard from since the previous Friday. As Kelly Dwyer's family
19:07
Speaker 1: and friends continued to search for her, Milwaukee detective Tammy
19:11
Speaker 1: Trammel McClane arrived at the scene of Kelly's last known
19:15
Speaker 1: whereabouts three days earlier, Chris Sucho's apartment building. They come
19:20
Speaker 1: right through this door and he actually holds the door
19:22
Speaker 1: open for her. If you can see that on the video, yes,
19:24
Speaker 1: so you see two people that are chatting walk past
19:28
Speaker 1: that camera. Then there's another camera that catches them turning
19:31
Speaker 1: the corner to the elevator. They bend the corner and
19:34
Speaker 1: then that's the last time that she is ever seen
19:38
Speaker 1: alive by anyone. Welcome back, I mean, and see Grace.
19:42
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories with Me New York defense attorney
19:45
Speaker 1: Julie Randelman, author and former homicide detective Cloyd Steiger, renowned
19:51
Speaker 1: psycho Alice Dodger, Bethany Marshall, the former Chief Medical Examiner
19:56
Speaker 1: for the State of Georgia, Chris Sperry, and Crime online
19:59
Speaker 1: dot Com us to get a reporter LEVI page. So
20:03
Speaker 1: they go into his apartment. They look around. I can't
20:09
Speaker 1: help but notice the video shows her going into his
20:12
Speaker 1: apartment building, but not coming out. You were just hearing
20:15
Speaker 1: our friend Peter van zan at forty eight hours. Now
20:19
Speaker 1: take a listen to this more incriminating evidence, disturbing pictures
20:24
Speaker 1: of Kelly on Zako's phone. Still photographs that are very
20:28
Speaker 1: concerning as well, because she appears to be unconscious on
20:33
Speaker 1: his bed. But police could not link those images to
20:38
Speaker 1: Kelly's disappearance, and despite Zacho being a person of interest,
20:42
Speaker 1: they could only charge him with drug possession, but that
20:46
Speaker 1: search of his apartment led police to a bizarre discovery
20:50
Speaker 1: in his bathroom. During that first search warrant, the police
20:54
Speaker 1: observe the shower curtain hooks with the torn fragments of
20:59
Speaker 1: show a torn shower curtain. It may mean nothing to
21:03
Speaker 1: some people. To me, it means a lot. Right now,
21:06
Speaker 1: I'm working a cold case where one of the last
21:10
Speaker 1: clues that I have with a missing woman is the
21:13
Speaker 1: fact that in her home the shower curtain was missing
21:17
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom that she decorated, where everything matched.
21:22
Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, that is significant. You know,
21:26
Speaker 1: for instance, in my children's bathrooms they don't have shower
21:30
Speaker 1: curtains up, but most people do have shower curtains up.
21:35
Speaker 1: And when she went to the trouble to match up
21:38
Speaker 1: everything when she bought, you know, the shower curtain and
21:41
Speaker 1: the rug and the towels and all that, and then
21:43
Speaker 1: a piece is missing. That means something. And here in
21:46
Speaker 1: his place, his apartment, Chris Zako, the boyfriend, the shower
21:50
Speaker 1: curtain is torn down. Well, not only that, Nancy, Let's
21:53
Speaker 1: say they're having a romantic sexual relationship. She's spending the
21:57
Speaker 1: night at his house. Supposedly, a woman is going to
22:01
Speaker 1: want a shower, right She's going to want to take
22:04
Speaker 1: a shower after sex, or she's getting ready to go
22:06
Speaker 1: to work in the morning. Women want to groom themselves.
22:11
Speaker 1: So even if he didn't have any for a shower curtain,
22:14
Speaker 1: she would most certainly make sure that one was there.
22:17
Speaker 1: And also the fact that the shower curtain was torn
22:20
Speaker 1: off of the hooks. I don't think I've ever seen
22:23
Speaker 1: that in anybody's bathroom. And this guy had a big job,
22:27
Speaker 1: a big life. He was a good earner. So the
22:30
Speaker 1: fact that he would have something in his house so
22:33
Speaker 1: amiss and out of place, like you would have in
22:36
Speaker 1: maybe a crack house or an impoverished kind of setting,
22:40
Speaker 1: it does not match what we would hope to see
22:43
Speaker 1: in that kind of a home. So right now all
22:45
Speaker 1: we have is video of her going in and no
22:48
Speaker 1: video of her coming out, and a torn down shower curtain.
22:56
Speaker 1: As days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months,
23:00
Speaker 1: still no sign of Kelly Dwyer. To doctor Chris Berry,
23:06
Speaker 1: former Chief Medical Examine over the State of Georgia, Chris,
23:10
Speaker 1: as time passes, you lose more and more evidence as
23:14
Speaker 1: it relates to determining a cause of death or even
23:18
Speaker 1: identifying a body. Explain, Yes, with the passage of time,
23:24
Speaker 1: nature takes its course. Decomposition begins. Insects infest the body.
23:31
Speaker 1: If the body's outside, animals will get to it, and
23:36
Speaker 1: sometimes will even you tear the body apart and distribute
23:40
Speaker 1: the bones and scattered pieces all over a large area.
23:44
Speaker 1: So it becomes much much more difficult to find the
23:48
Speaker 1: injuries with the soft tissues gone, and also with the
23:53
Speaker 1: damage that predators just naturally, you know, eating on decomposed
23:59
Speaker 1: remains as will cause. So it makes a difficult problem
24:04
Speaker 1: even more difficult, sometimes even impossible. Right now, the police
24:08
Speaker 1: have their hands tied. They don't know which way to go.
24:11
Speaker 1: That's a terrible spot to be in in a missing
24:15
Speaker 1: person investigation. So what do you do when you don't
24:19
Speaker 1: know what to do? You start over again, back at
24:22
Speaker 1: Zacho's apartment, but this time police bring a special friend,
24:28
Speaker 1: and they then bring in a canine to conduct a
24:31
Speaker 1: sniff for the order of decomposing human remains, and that
24:35
Speaker 1: police cadaver dog, Molly, would deliver some stunning results. There's
24:42
Speaker 1: an indication at the outside of the apartment door in
24:45
Speaker 1: the parking garage on the level, he partice car on
24:49
Speaker 1: the dumpster door on the eighteenth floor. Molly alerted on
24:55
Speaker 1: the hallway, guest bedroll, guest bathroom. She went on to
25:02
Speaker 1: the master bedroom, got up onto Chris Zickle's bed. She
25:07
Speaker 1: seemed to be sniffing vigorously on top of his bed,
25:10
Speaker 1: and gives her final formal trained alert for police. That
25:15
Speaker 1: moment changed this case forever. They now believed Kelly was dead,
25:20
Speaker 1: so police bring in cadaver dogs. And I've got to
25:24
Speaker 1: tell you something to Julie Rendelman, New York defense attorney,
25:27
Speaker 1: no stranger to a courtroom. Many people have asked me,
25:31
Speaker 1: for instance, what was my favorite case, which is a
25:34
Speaker 1: crazy question because no case is more important than another.
25:38
Speaker 1: People have also asked me who was your best witness
25:41
Speaker 1: you ever put on the stand, And I normally say
25:43
Speaker 1: it was a dog, a drug dog who completely carried
25:48
Speaker 1: the day from me when I was prosecuting a drug lord.
25:52
Speaker 1: Julie Rendelman, everybody loves a dog in the courtroom because
25:57
Speaker 1: dogs don't lie, Doctor Bethanymore Marshall, there's another obvious witness,
26:04
Speaker 1: the other woman. When she finds out he's been dating
26:08
Speaker 1: Kelly Dwyer and taking videos of her, probably unbeknownst to Kelly,
26:13
Speaker 1: of them in bed together. How do you think that's
26:16
Speaker 1: gonna sit Bethny Marshall, Nancy? Can you imagine? Well, at
26:19
Speaker 1: first I would think that she's horrified that he's dating
26:22
Speaker 1: another woman, he hit a whole double life from her.
26:25
Speaker 1: But then can you imagine how relieved she is because
26:28
Speaker 1: this other woman has gone missing? You know, what a minute,
26:30
Speaker 1: I'm all happy about getting rid of love rivals, but
26:33
Speaker 1: not by them going missing and possibly dead. What do
26:39
Speaker 1: you mean she was happy that she could have been
26:42
Speaker 1: a murder victim, not that she's glad that the other
26:45
Speaker 1: person was really you know, I deal in my practice
26:48
Speaker 1: with people who have double lives all the time, and
26:52
Speaker 1: normally that person is getting a need satisfied behind their
26:56
Speaker 1: primary partners back. And in this case, there seemed to
27:00
Speaker 1: be some sado masochistic sex play. Either he was abusing
27:04
Speaker 1: her I I don't think so, that doesn't seem like
27:06
Speaker 1: this is a domestic abuse situation, or they were engaging
27:11
Speaker 1: in sex play that involved asphyxiation strangling, and that it
27:16
Speaker 1: was beginning to go too far. And so what that
27:18
Speaker 1: suggests to me if he is indeed the perpetrator, is
27:21
Speaker 1: that maybe he already had homicidal tendencies. Maybe he sought
27:26
Speaker 1: out a sex partner with whom he could gradually increase
27:30
Speaker 1: the aggression against her as a preparation for killing somebody.
27:35
Speaker 1: Maybe he kept the primary girlfriend on the side and
27:39
Speaker 1: he had more of a benign vanilla relationship with her
27:42
Speaker 1: while he had this sado masochistic sex play with the
27:46
Speaker 1: other one that was actually priming him to commit homicide. Well,
27:51
Speaker 1: as crazy as that sounds, I think it's not uncommon. Also,
27:56
Speaker 1: Jackie has pointed out to me correctly that Kelly's ends
28:00
Speaker 1: told police that they occasionally noticed a bruising on Kelly's
28:04
Speaker 1: wrists and neck. They pointed it out to her and
28:08
Speaker 1: she would laugh it off and say it was a
28:10
Speaker 1: quote crazy night. Why is it, Bethany that often women
28:16
Speaker 1: will go along with behavior that they really don't want. Well,
28:21
Speaker 1: it is interesting the yoga instructor said that she was
28:24
Speaker 1: just sort of living her life and exploring things, And
28:27
Speaker 1: so I'm going to go with the yoga instructor's observation
28:31
Speaker 1: that maybe she was in a period of experimentation. Okay,
28:35
Speaker 1: that's certainly putting her hume on the pig Crime Stories
28:47
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Oh. When I went to interview the
28:52
Speaker 1: long term girlfriend, Megan, and I had a lot of
28:55
Speaker 1: photographs from the search warrants with me and I was
28:57
Speaker 1: able to have her identify different odd jis within the apartment.
29:04
Speaker 1: They learned that a number of things were missing. She
29:07
Speaker 1: described that guest bathroom. There should have been a shower curtain,
29:12
Speaker 1: there should have been a little rug, and some matching
29:16
Speaker 1: decorative towels. All of those things were gone, and she
29:19
Speaker 1: was surprised to see that. She identified the shower curtain
29:23
Speaker 1: hooks that were bent and torn, identified the fact that
29:26
Speaker 1: they were not like that when she had last been
29:28
Speaker 1: in there, and it's in that very bathroom where the
29:30
Speaker 1: sniffer dog alerted expecting human remain exactly. Megan also identified
29:38
Speaker 1: one more missing item. There had been a large travel
29:42
Speaker 1: golf bag lying in front of the TV that had
29:45
Speaker 1: been there for weeks and weeks that they literally would
29:47
Speaker 1: have to step over to get into the bathroom, and
29:49
Speaker 1: that was missing. Welcome back, hid Nancy Grace, this is
29:52
Speaker 1: Crime Stories suddenly missing from the boyfriend's apartment. A very
29:58
Speaker 1: heavy golf bag I could had the cops find out
30:01
Speaker 1: about it his other girlfriend, who now realized that her
30:05
Speaker 1: boyfriend not only has been cheating, but that the other
30:08
Speaker 1: woman is missing. But there's a lot more to that
30:12
Speaker 1: missing golf bag. Listen to our friend Peter van Zant.
30:15
Speaker 1: So he could take her body in the travel golf
30:19
Speaker 1: bag out of his apartment, into the elevator, down to
30:23
Speaker 1: the first floor, and out that door to the garage
30:27
Speaker 1: without being captured on any cameras. But there are cameras
30:31
Speaker 1: inside the garage and yet no image of Zacho with
30:35
Speaker 1: that bag. The garage is the only area where the
30:39
Speaker 1: cameras would be motion activated. Some of the investigators think, hey,
30:45
Speaker 1: just got lucky with it. It took months of painstaking
30:49
Speaker 1: work for Milwaukee PD investigators to piece together Chris Sucko's
30:54
Speaker 1: movements on the days after his date with Kelly Dwyer.
30:59
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Eric o'branson worked the case as both a homicide
31:04
Speaker 1: and cold case detective. At ten or six am, we
31:11
Speaker 1: have Christako standing by the drivers side door when he
31:16
Speaker 1: leaves that building. At ten o eight am, Kelly Dwyer's
31:20
Speaker 1: phone It goes, Dad, what do you think happened to
31:24
Speaker 1: the phone at that moment? Broken, powered down, thrown into water.
31:28
Speaker 1: The river is very close by. Well, it's amazing how
31:31
Speaker 1: much you can learn from cell phone triangulation and data.
31:35
Speaker 1: Nineteen long months pass and then this authorities have just
31:40
Speaker 1: identified the remains of twenty seven year old Kelly Dwyer.
31:44
Speaker 1: Detective where are we. We are on a dead end
31:48
Speaker 1: country road and we are about forty five miles west
31:51
Speaker 1: of Milwaukee, and it's quite overgrown here. But this is
31:55
Speaker 1: the specific area where Kelly Dwyer's body was found. For
32:00
Speaker 1: a year and a half, Kelly Dwyer had been here,
32:06
Speaker 1: hidden under these trees, just six miles from Busy I
32:11
Speaker 1: ninety four before her remains were discovered by a local
32:15
Speaker 1: man out for a walk. He catches a glint of
32:21
Speaker 1: light hitting off of something that's whitish in color, and
32:25
Speaker 1: when he takes a closer look, he sees what appears
32:28
Speaker 1: to be a human skull. Six days later, using dental records,
32:34
Speaker 1: those remains were confirmed to be Kelly Dwyer. What could
32:38
Speaker 1: not be confirmed, though, was just how she'd die. Our
32:42
Speaker 1: friends at CBS to Chris Berry, former chief medical examiner,
32:48
Speaker 1: Chris why is it that after nineteen months a medical
32:52
Speaker 1: examiner cannot determine cause of death. If she was strangled
32:56
Speaker 1: or suffocated, there's no soft no skin, and no muscles
33:02
Speaker 1: and anything left that you can see, and the only
33:05
Speaker 1: evidence that might be found would be possibly a crack
33:09
Speaker 1: or a break in the hyoid bone, the lily u
33:12
Speaker 1: shaped bone that's up at the base of the tongue.
33:15
Speaker 1: But in a young woman who is manually strangled oftentimes
33:19
Speaker 1: there are no internal injuries at all, no bony fractures
33:22
Speaker 1: of any sort. And if she's suffocated or asphyxiated in
33:27
Speaker 1: some other way, any subtle evidence that would be present
33:31
Speaker 1: at the time when she died would be long gone.
33:34
Speaker 1: So it's very it's essentially impossible. So without the soft tissue,
33:39
Speaker 1: you couldn't figure out asphyxiation. You couldn't find hemorrhages, and
33:43
Speaker 1: the eyeballs the particular because I guess those have deteriorated
33:48
Speaker 1: as well. They're log gone. Yes, yes, all this left
33:51
Speaker 1: is just both. How about gunshot or stabbing, Well, that
33:55
Speaker 1: should be much more easy to determine if she had
33:59
Speaker 1: been shot or stabbed, evidence of broken bones where bullets
34:03
Speaker 1: had passed through and struck different structures would be easy
34:07
Speaker 1: to see, and even stab wounds I myself have seen
34:11
Speaker 1: cut marks on ribs from people who've been missing for
34:14
Speaker 1: many years, where a knife has slid over the edge
34:18
Speaker 1: of a rib and left a mark behind. So that's
34:22
Speaker 1: much more readily visible, but it requires a detailed examination
34:26
Speaker 1: of every surface of every bone. Wow, okay, could you
34:30
Speaker 1: explain to me when you're saying that you've seen this yourself.
34:35
Speaker 1: When you're looking at a bone, Let's just say, from
34:38
Speaker 1: the rib cage or the arm, how what do you
34:42
Speaker 1: see on the bone to let you know that there
34:45
Speaker 1: was a stab wound. You'll see a ridge or a
34:47
Speaker 1: little notch where the edge of the blade has struck
34:53
Speaker 1: or struct the bone and then been diverted and gone
34:58
Speaker 1: over the edge of the bone. That there is a
35:00
Speaker 1: cut mark left behind, a small little ridge or sometimes
35:05
Speaker 1: a triangular point or an indentation from the point of
35:09
Speaker 1: the knife. So, and it's with a skeleton. After about
35:14
Speaker 1: a year outside, pretty much all of the even the
35:19
Speaker 1: fat and the grease that's left behind on the skeleton
35:23
Speaker 1: is gone for the most part, and so it makes
35:26
Speaker 1: it much more readily apparent if there are these subtle findings.
35:31
Speaker 1: But you know, you once you see something like this,
35:34
Speaker 1: then it becomes pretty obvious if a knife especially has
35:37
Speaker 1: been involved. Wow, let me ask you this, doctor Sperry,
35:41
Speaker 1: to prep the human bones in order to examine them,
35:45
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you clean the bone yet not
35:49
Speaker 1: destroy any evidence? Well, actually, you know, first of all,
35:53
Speaker 1: you go over and examine everything very carefully. But then
35:57
Speaker 1: you immerse the skeleton. You put it in a big
35:59
Speaker 1: pie with some mild detergent. Actually that will just the
36:06
Speaker 1: enzymes and the soap and mild detergent will just dissolve
36:11
Speaker 1: the fat and the grease is left behind. So the
36:14
Speaker 1: surface of the bone that is pristine, and that sort
36:18
Speaker 1: of treatment does not affect any damage, any cracks or
36:22
Speaker 1: any notches, any cut marks, anything on the bones like that.
36:26
Speaker 1: So it also if you put a little bleach in it,
36:29
Speaker 1: that actually will then make the bones white. So it's
36:33
Speaker 1: just careful cleaning with chemicals that don't destroy the bone,
36:38
Speaker 1: but we'll get rid of the residue of you know,
36:40
Speaker 1: fat and soft. When you say, you know where, I've
36:44
Speaker 1: got to ask you this when you say mild detergent.
36:47
Speaker 1: Mild detergent did you use, Well, you know I've used
36:50
Speaker 1: I've used on before and in fact it's there's several
36:54
Speaker 1: different brands that if you see on the grocery store
36:58
Speaker 1: shelf that says you know with with oxidating enzymes or
37:01
Speaker 1: enzyme cleaning, those are the best because the different enzymes
37:07
Speaker 1: that are in like a variety of detergents, they all
37:11
Speaker 1: will break down the fat and the remnants of the
37:14
Speaker 1: proteins very readily. I will never look at dish soap
37:19
Speaker 1: the same again, thanks to you, doctor Chris Sperry. Okay, Well,
37:25
Speaker 1: you may be wondering how does dawn dishwashing liquid and
37:31
Speaker 1: a golf bag all fit together? Well, just add this
37:36
Speaker 1: into the mix. The mouse House cheese shop nearly two
37:41
Speaker 1: hundred miles away. How does that end up in a
37:44
Speaker 1: homicide investigation? One day after Kelly Dwyer disappeared, Chris Sucko
37:50
Speaker 1: left his girlfriend's apartment and hit the room where he
37:54
Speaker 1: went That morning would be the first in a series
37:57
Speaker 1: of clues as to what may have happened to Kelly Dwyer.
38:01
Speaker 1: Christako had gone to a place called the mouse House.
38:05
Speaker 1: What's the mouse house? This is the mouse house eighty
38:10
Speaker 1: miles from Milwaukee, near Madison, Wisconsin. One cheese shop in
38:15
Speaker 1: a state full of cheese shops. Why would he drive
38:20
Speaker 1: up toward Madison to buy cheese. It's a very good question,
38:24
Speaker 1: A very good question. Sacho says he drove one hundred
38:28
Speaker 1: sixty miles round trip to buy a half pound wedge
38:32
Speaker 1: of cheese for his girlfriend's parents. But the investigators say
38:37
Speaker 1: that he did it to finally dispose of Kelly's body
38:41
Speaker 1: somewhere in the rural Wisconsin farmland between Madison and Milwaukee. Okay,
38:46
Speaker 1: that's not all he did on his trip one hundred
38:49
Speaker 1: and sixty miles away to the mouse House cheese shop
38:53
Speaker 1: for a quarter pound of specialty cheese. Just curious Levipage
38:57
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, what kind of cheese
39:00
Speaker 1: did he purchase? I am not sure of the exact cheese.
39:03
Speaker 1: I know Wisconsin has tons of specialty cheeses. But he
39:07
Speaker 1: also Nancy, he also went to the mall and purchased
39:10
Speaker 1: some brand new sneakers. He traveled eighty miles to get
39:13
Speaker 1: cheese and sneakers, and law enforcement found that extremely suspicious.
39:17
Speaker 1: Who travels that far for cheese? And not only that?
39:20
Speaker 1: To Julie Rendelman, New York defense attorney, how would you
39:24
Speaker 1: counter this evidence? As it turns out, he had his
39:28
Speaker 1: GPS locator on his phone turned off for seventeen hours
39:34
Speaker 1: during his trip to the Mousehouse cheese shop one hundred
39:39
Speaker 1: and sixty miles away. I think the biggest issue, or
39:42
Speaker 1: the biggest issue for the defenses, there's absolutely absolutely no
39:45
Speaker 1: forensic evidence whatsoever in this case that links him to
39:50
Speaker 1: her disappearance, and I think that's counter that's added with
39:54
Speaker 1: the fact that even in the video of the house
39:56
Speaker 1: there seems to be some surveillance that is not saved,
40:01
Speaker 1: and so I think the defense can kind of work
40:03
Speaker 1: off of both of those. Well, you've got a point,
40:05
Speaker 1: Julie Randelman. I guess that's why you win so many cases.
40:09
Speaker 1: Listen to our friend Peter van Zant Sarah Hill. There
40:12
Speaker 1: was nothing on that skeleton to tell us what the
40:14
Speaker 1: cause of death was. There was no physical evidence found
40:18
Speaker 1: at the scene either, no shaller curtain, no cloth, no towel,
40:22
Speaker 1: no clothing, and no travel golf bag. But detectives say
40:28
Speaker 1: there was one clue left behind the position of Kelly's skeleton.
40:33
Speaker 1: Her feet and legs were more over in this area,
40:37
Speaker 1: with one of her legs completely turned very contorted. The
40:41
Speaker 1: same thing with her left arm. It was behind her
40:43
Speaker 1: back as if she had been scrunched into some kind
40:46
Speaker 1: of a container like a golf travel like a golf
40:49
Speaker 1: travel bag. Exactly exactly back to leave my page. Crime
40:53
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter. When they spoke, When Copp
40:57
Speaker 1: spoke to Chris Zako, what did he say have happened?
41:01
Speaker 1: He said that they went back to his apartment. He
41:04
Speaker 1: said they did cocaine, had sex, and that they fell asleep.
41:09
Speaker 1: He then woke up at nine am the next morning
41:13
Speaker 1: and he heard her leaving in the door to his apartment. Click,
41:17
Speaker 1: and she was gone. See Julie Rendelman, New York defense attorney.
41:20
Speaker 1: That's why you never want your client to speak to police,
41:23
Speaker 1: because that story sounds pretty innocuous, right, like it could
41:26
Speaker 1: have happened just the way Levi recounted it. But once
41:30
Speaker 1: you speak to police, you're locked in. So if another
41:34
Speaker 1: witness comes forward and says, oh, well, he said he
41:36
Speaker 1: went golfing that morning at seven am, that's completely contrary
41:40
Speaker 1: to what he's told police. And also, why didn't she
41:46
Speaker 1: show up on the video. So even if you tell
41:49
Speaker 1: cops an innocent story, you shouldn't speak to cops, according
41:53
Speaker 1: to defense attorneys, because it can be disproved with hard evidence. Well,
41:58
Speaker 1: you always want your clients to shut the heck up.
42:00
Speaker 1: I mean there's never a time. I don't think there's
42:03
Speaker 1: ever a single time, no matter how innocent you are,
42:06
Speaker 1: that you want a defendant to speak. And this is
42:09
Speaker 1: a prime example because anything he says, especially, he doesn't
42:12
Speaker 1: know what the evidence is. He doesn't know what they've
42:14
Speaker 1: seen on the video. He doesn't know whether or not
42:16
Speaker 1: the video has captured him downstairs at the car. So
42:20
Speaker 1: nothing he says is going to get him out of this.
42:22
Speaker 1: It's better to just remain silent. Well, in the end,
42:26
Speaker 1: in the end, he is can they deployed? Steiger? Are
42:31
Speaker 1: you surprised? I'm not surprised at all. I mean, the
42:35
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming. And you know, I'd like
42:38
Speaker 1: to go back to the point that his GPS on
42:40
Speaker 1: his phone was turned off. It has to be more
42:42
Speaker 1: than that, because even then you're hitting off the cell tower,
42:45
Speaker 1: so his phone had to have been completely turned off
42:48
Speaker 1: not to register where he's going. And I would have
42:50
Speaker 1: gone back as much as I could and cell records
42:52
Speaker 1: and see if whatever extended periods where his phone was
42:54
Speaker 1: turned off before. Probably not. Of course, he helped us
42:57
Speaker 1: all by going to the making the ridiculous story. Going
42:59
Speaker 1: to this store to get a piece of cheese eighty
43:02
Speaker 1: miles and then that and also to buy a pair
43:04
Speaker 1: of tennis shoes was great because it locks in the
43:07
Speaker 1: time it's out there. I'd like us like to address
43:10
Speaker 1: something that the defense Castle just said. People shouldn't talk
43:14
Speaker 1: because they don't know what the evidence is. If you're innocent,
43:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what the evidence. You know what well
43:19
Speaker 1: put Bethanie Marshall's surprised at the outcome. I'm not surprised
43:23
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, just look at the behavioral evidence.
43:25
Speaker 1: She showed up at work with bruises around her neck
43:28
Speaker 1: and her wrists. He was leading a double life. They
43:32
Speaker 1: had been together for an entire year, Nancy. And when
43:35
Speaker 1: you're with someone for an entire year who's trying to
43:38
Speaker 1: asphyxiate you, leading a double life, the relationship has never consolidated.
43:43
Speaker 1: It is something other than a romantic relationship. It is
43:46
Speaker 1: somebody who's priming a victim. And so to think that
43:51
Speaker 1: this was a relationship gone sideways is a wrong way
43:54
Speaker 1: to look at it. This was a homicidal man grooming
43:58
Speaker 1: a victim. Right now, we understand that Zacho, planning his
44:01
Speaker 1: appeal behind bars, We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace
44:07
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,