Latest / History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present / Yes, Hollywood Has Always Turned the Camera on Itself (Ft. The Studio, Jay Kelly, and The Player)

Transcript

Yes, Hollywood Has Always Turned the Camera on Itself (Ft. The Studio, Jay Kelly, and The Player) · History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present

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  They say we're loud, opinionated, afraid Telling
• 0:05
  us to hush, dim our historical light But darlings,
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  we're the Harpies, sharp and keen Unveiling the
• 0:12
  truth behind the silver screen History Harpies
• 0:17
  hear us roar I'm Christine, and this is episode
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  16, maybe, Lauren. It is hard to believe. It
• 0:37
  is hard to believe, and it might be 17. You know,
• 0:39
  we've been doing them for so long, I just have
• 0:41
  lost track. We were reminded not too long ago
• 0:45
  that it will be our History Harpy anniversary
• 0:49
  in... That is so exciting. I'm really looking
• 0:51
  forward to it. And it is truly amazing that the
• 0:53
  two of us have gotten our act together to come
• 0:56
  and record this on a pretty regular basis. And
• 1:00
  it's our dedication and our commitment to these
• 1:04
  texts and to our listeners, all ten of you. All
• 1:07
  ten of you. We love you. And we love you. And
• 1:09
  thank you for encouraging us and for listening
• 1:13
  and for your feedback and for telling us to keep
• 1:17
  on keepin' on. You know, we need to do that thing
• 1:20
  where we do the like, like and subscribe. Oh,
• 1:23
  yes. We need to have an email address. Before
• 1:24
  next time, I'm going to create a History Harpies
• 1:26
  email address where people can write to us and
• 1:30
  tell us things and whatever. You mean besides
• 1:33
  the actual texts we get from our friends that
• 1:35
  are like, love the episode, why didn't you like
• 1:38
  this movie? Exactly that, exactly that. But you
• 1:41
  know, I'm just, before we move on, I'm just gonna
• 1:42
  say it is... We should congratulate ourselves
• 1:45
  because yeah, we managed to do this despite the
• 1:47
  fact that we are both working mothers We we are
• 1:53
  working mothers we are full -time employees and
• 1:58
  I am a semi professional tennis player, which
• 2:01
  I am NOT So yeah, I mean I somehow the pod has
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  emerged among all these things, but here's the
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  thing, right? I mean, we just love watching our
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  TV and our movies and so shoving a microphone
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  in front of us, it's just not a big step. It's
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  not a big step, but this is actually a perfect
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  segue because today we're going to be talking
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  about text, about the movies, and about the beauty
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  that is Hollywood. And so actually, first I want
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  to ask you a short question, which is why do
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  you love movies? Okay. Movies in bed or movies
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  in the theater? Movies in the theater, let's
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  say. Okay. Or either one. Why do you just love
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  the thing that is film? Oh, man. Okay. So I love
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  the thing that is film. Okay. I will be... cheesy
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  and cliche for my movie answer by seeing Nicole
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  AMC. I am truly transported to another place.
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  I am able to get into the mind and experience
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  of another person. and another lifestyle or just
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  the beauty of it. Even in some films have very
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  little story at all, but they're just so beautiful
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  or the music is so amazing. And the theatrics
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  of it all for me are what draws me to the movies.
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  And as you know, and as hopefully our listeners
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  know, I like all kinds of movies and I don't
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  have even a preferred genre. but I love a good
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  story and I can easily be swept away. I just
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  saw Wicked Part 2 and I was swept away for the
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  better. Glad to hear it. And again, seeing Wicked
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  reminded me of why I love movies and why I've
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  loved them as a kid. and really bemoan the end
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  of in -person movies. Agreed. How about you,
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  Christine? You know, I would say all of the above,
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  except for the fondness for Wicked, of course.
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  All of the above. And I would add, I think exactly
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  that. I love the idea, even though I don't really
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  do it too much anymore, but I love the idea of
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  when when you are in a movie theater with a packed
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  house right like when i was younger and used
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  to go to friday night movies right the sort of
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  first night that something was out uh seeing
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  something in a sellout theater the summer blockbuster
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  the summer blockbusters i love that sense of
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  community i love you know getting with all of
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  these strangers everyone having this this experience
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  together even when people are sort of shouting
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  things out at the screen of course as you know
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  you know both of us have seen rocky harper show
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  so many times And I just I love that. But it's
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  exactly everything you said. The idea of being
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  transported, the marriage of kind of the technicality
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  of filmmaking with the artistic component of
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  it, everything coming together. And I really
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  love the idea that it's such a recent art form
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  and something that is fairly new, but really
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  just absolutely became something so magical and
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  magisterial so quickly. Yes. And I think that
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  that's really impressive. Right. If you look
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  at human history, which both of us do all. And
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  one of the interesting statistics that I always
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  tell my students in my pop culture class is that
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  even in the darkest days of the Depression in
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  U .S. history, people went to the movies. They
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  spent their last pennies going to the movies
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  and theater attendance did not decline the way
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  that Studio owners had anticipated I mean it
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  did decline but it didn't plummet it didn't put
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  the movies out of business and then there was
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  a theater building bonanza during the nineteen
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  thirties during the sort of new deal era. So
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  not to get too professory, but it shows us that
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  it really is an American pastime. It's an international
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  pastime, but that, again, the art form hasn't
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  been with us for that long. And it's something
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  that has its own story to it, which is a segue
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  to our industry films. Very nice. So we have
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  three texts today, two films, The Player and
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  Jay Kelly, brand new film last night dropped
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  on Netflix although I think it was in theaters
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  before and the studio which is an Apple series
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  television series starring Seth Rogen which the
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  titular studio head of the mythical continental
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  studios. Right. It chronicles his escapades and
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  his experiences becoming a new studio head. So
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  we have three texts about industry, Hollywood,
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  and intrigue and all of the things that go with
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  filmmaking and the drama behind the drama. The
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  drama behind the drama. And certainly what we
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  can say, I think pretty safely is that Hollywood
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  loves talking about itself. Absolutely. It loves
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  making media about itself. And very often this
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  media is rewarded with a great deal of love,
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  right? The studio was the Emmy winner for best
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  comedy, which surprised a lot of people. Including
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  me. Including you. And again, over our beloved
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  hacks. And above severance. And above severance,
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  yes. So let's start talking about Jay Kelly,
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  something that in some way, I think we're going
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  to slightly disagree about Jay Kelly. So directed
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  by Noah Baumbach, who has done many, many films,
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  husband or partner of Greta Gerwig of Barbie
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  fame. and starring George Clooney pretty much
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  as a George Clooney -esque character, a major
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  movie star, sort of in his early 60s, perhaps
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  nearing the end of his career, and a trip that
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  he takes with his entourage to receive an award
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  in Italy, and all of the family dynamics and
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  professional dynamics he goes through on that
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  trip. Right, and although he does go to, this
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  is a critical point, although he does go to be
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  honored, the main... motivation behind him going
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  is to spend more time with his daughter who has
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  just graduated from high school who he doesn't
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  feel like he's spent enough time with her and
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  wants to, in a kind of real rushed and determined
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  way, spend time with her in Europe before she
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  goes off to college. So the idea is that he'll
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  get this award but he's also going to try to
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  spend time with his daughter who kind of Kind
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  of wants nothing to do with him. To do her own
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  thing with her friends. And she wants to be 18
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  and backpack around Europe and do her thing.
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  Disconnected to being the daughter of Jay Kelly.
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  Yes. And this is one of his two daughters. And
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  we're told that he has a very difficult relationship
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  with his older daughter because of his inattention
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  when she was growing up that he was not the best
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  father. And so with this younger daughter, this
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  is an opportunity to maybe develop some closeness
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  that he doesn't have with the older one. And
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  in addition, he also has a disconnected relationship
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  or troubled relationship with his own father
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  who does eventually come to this tribute, but
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  is there very shortly and makes all kinds of
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  points about how he could really care less that
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  his son was a movie star and wishes he just kind
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  of drove a tractor the way that he had and is
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  the main theme here is that Jay Kelly is not
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  in the family way. Yes, that he is very disconnected
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  to his family. He is not married. Again, the
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  difficult relationship with the daughters. and
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  the father and what we also see over the course
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  of the film is that this giant entourage basically
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  falls away over the course of the film and he
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  is left only with Adam Sandler's character, his
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  agent or manager. His manager, Ron, who himself
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  has a family that he is in contact with the entire
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  time that he is on the trip, but he is pulled
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  between his loyalty to his client, Jay, and then
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  the different needs of his daughter and son and
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  wife who are back in the States, who are asking
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  him all kinds of questions, who need him for
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  different things, and his own consciousness about
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  how much time he's spending with his family and
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  whether it's worth that. So one of the major
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  themes that's so interesting to me about this
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  film is the conflict between the talent and the
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  entourage and the ways in which the talent sees
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  the entourage maybe as employees and the entourage
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  see themselves as friends and the question of
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  where the loyalties lie and at the end of the
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  day will the talent disappoint you or will the
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  talent behave in ways that fulfill your expectations
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  and there's there's all kinds of things that
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  happen and and clearly Adam Sandler is the sort
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  of MVP in terms of securing roles for Jake Kelly
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  and managing his career and going into different
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  spaces to be with directors or writers or secure
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  secure him as famous as he is right and it's
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  and one thing that's I think important to point
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  out and actually Jim and I talked about this
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  before is that Jay Kelly is more famous than
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  George Clooney. Jay Kelly is more like Leonardo
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  DiCaprio or his career in terms of the prestige
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  of his films, the following he has, the longevity
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  of the career. He is like a Taylor Swift almost.
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  I mean, in terms of how famous he is. And it's
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  not that George Clooney isn't famous. We all
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  know who he is. But George Clooney himself hasn't
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  had the prestige films that some of his counterparts
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  have. Oh, see, I would actually disagree with
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  that. And that I think that we are supposed to
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  have a sense certainly from the retrospective
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  that we see is George Clooney's film. And so
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  we do see something like Siriana. Sure. Right.
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  And so I think we are supposed to we're supposed
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  to think, right, that Jay has that degree of
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  diversity, right, again, sort of the action films,
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  the prestige films, and, but thinking about,
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  I don't know, I'm not sure I would agree that
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  George Clooney hasn't had that. I don't. Maybe
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  I'm not understanding what you're saying. I think,
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  no, I think George Clooney's had a lot of sinkers,
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  is what I'm saying. Yeah. And I think, and I
• 13:01
  think that, again, you think about like a Harrison
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  Ford, okay, if we're thinking about people who,
• 13:07
  again, people who have worked with De Niro, I
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  wouldn't put, George Clooney with those folks.
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  Interesting. And I think in large part because
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  he did, he was a television actor for such a
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  long time, he entered his film career He was
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  about 40 when he first started making films.
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  And although he's had some good films, he doesn't
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  have as many canonical films. And he's also famous
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  for a lot of other things. He's famous for his
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  philanthropy. He's famous for his politics. He's
• 13:37
  got the Lake Cuomo compound. He's married to
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  Amal. He's famous for other things. But in terms
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  of his film career and in terms of being, he's
• 13:46
  not Brad Pitt, which is interesting because he's
• 13:49
  with Brad Pitt. in the Ocean films. But he's,
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  and again, I'm not saying he's not very, very
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  famous, but I actually don't think that this
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  is George Clooney playing George Clooney. I think
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  this is George Clooney playing what he wishes
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  were George Clooney. And that's, again, that's
• 14:09
  just my hot taste. Interesting. I mean, I guess
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  I already, I always think of Clooney primarily
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  as working with Steven Soderbergh and working
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  with the Cullen Brothers. Right. Right. And so
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  in terms, certainly in terms of prestige directors,
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  right? Sure. Sure. And I think he's probably
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  worked, I mean, this is interesting, we could
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  go through this, but. I don't think of Harrison
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  Ford, right, as someone who works with prestige
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  directors. Oh, my God. Yes. OK. And I guess that's
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  what I'm thinking. So because Clooney, obviously,
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  he did that thing, right? He did the Soderbergh
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  thing. He did the Coen Brothers thing. And obviously,
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  I mean, then he made... romantic comedies or
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  whatever. But I guess, I don't know, that's so
• 14:45
  interesting to think about. I guess if you ask
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  person on the street, name a George Clooney film.
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  They might have trouble coming up with one, okay?
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  If you said name a Harrison Ford film, everyone
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  would say Raiders, Star Wars, et cetera, et cetera.
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  But those are popular films and not prestige
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  films. Correct. Okay. I think I'm getting lost
• 15:07
  about what we are, what the argument is here.
• 15:09
  Again, I think, I'm thinking this sort of Tom
• 15:12
  Cruise version, right? Tom Cruise who everywhere
• 15:15
  he goes, everyone knows who he is. People are
• 15:17
  screaming at that. And that is not George Clooney.
• 15:20
  Okay. And that's the distinction I'm making.
• 15:23
  Okay. Well, you know, then the interesting thing
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  is because I would say, yeah, and I mean, I don't
• 15:28
  think he's just playing George Clooney. I mean,
• 15:29
  I definitely agree with you about that. Although
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  it is so fantastic to see that retrospective.
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  It's really so interesting. But I think it's,
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  I would argue that George Clooney is playing
• 15:41
  the character that he's glad he is not, right?
• 15:45
  And that could be, yes. In the sense that, right?
• 15:49
  We are told very, I mean, one part of it I liked,
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  even though, you know, in some ways it was kind
• 15:54
  of pedestrian, is when he says to his daughter,
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  like, I was chasing something at the beginning,
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  right? And I never stopped chasing it. because
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  I thought that if I did stop, it would all go
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  away. And I'm sure, no, obviously people in lots
• 16:06
  of professions. believe that. But what's interesting
• 16:09
  about that, of course, is that since Clooney
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  himself, right, married at a fairly late age,
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  right, had children at a very late age, you really
• 16:16
  then can see Jay Kelly as the, wow, that's the
• 16:19
  person who did it wrong. Right. But then in the
• 16:22
  film, we also have the Patrick Wilson character,
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  right, who's supposed to be a very successful
• 16:26
  actor himself, but is surrounded by all of these
• 16:29
  people, right, the Isla Fisher wife, and all
• 16:32
  of these, yeah, the kids and family. And Adam
• 16:35
  Sandler said, because Adam Sandler also manages
• 16:38
  the Patrick Wilson character, says, look, I arranged
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  for him to be with his family on the weekends,
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  and he took those opportunities, and you did
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  it. You did not. You could have, and you chose
• 16:49
  not to, for whatever reason. And so we certainly
• 16:51
  are supposed to think that Jay is not quite a
• 16:54
  manipulator, but he takes advantage. We have
• 16:56
  that fantastic sort of Billy Crudup character
• 16:59
  who's so bitter, who turns out to be having been
• 17:03
  angry for so many years. The idea that the J.
• 17:09
  Kelly has always been an opportunist, right?
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  In terms of his career. And so I think, okay,
• 17:15
  I have to ask you though. I just got myself and
• 17:17
  ask you. So you said you loved it. I did love
• 17:20
  it. So what did you love about it? I loved it.
• 17:21
  I loved it. Um, okay. So I know you did not see
• 17:24
  Marriage Story. Is that correct? Correct. All
• 17:26
  right. And that will never happen. I will never
• 17:28
  watch Marriage Story. I know. And I love Marriage
• 17:30
  Story. Yes. Okay. I love Marriage Story and I
• 17:32
  love this. And I love them for similar reasons.
• 17:35
  Oh, okay. Even though they were different films.
• 17:38
  But one thing that Noby is really wonderful at
• 17:43
  is the intimacy of family. And what I loved about
• 17:47
  this film and When I Say Love also realized that
• 17:51
  despite the explanation in the beginning about
• 17:54
  why I love movies. Most movies now are crap.
• 17:58
  I agree. Okay, so when I see a film made by a
• 18:01
  director that I admire, making a thoughtful,
• 18:05
  interesting, creative, beautifully filmed and
• 18:08
  well acted film, I am already like... Box checked
• 18:13
  but what I loved about it and a lot of it had
• 18:17
  to do, you know It hit a lot of spots for me
• 18:20
  in terms of personal stuff and family and that
• 18:23
  but I loved that it was a family story wrapped
• 18:28
  in a genre of kind of industry it it really is
• 18:34
  about his relation either lack of relationships
• 18:37
  with his own family or his kind of fractured
• 18:41
  relationships with his chosen family. And that
• 18:46
  it really unpacks why those relationships don't
• 18:50
  work. And in the end, when he, again, that great
• 18:54
  reel with the George Clooney movies and you see
• 18:57
  him so satisfied and seeing the audience and
• 19:00
  you realize his, I guess his family or whoever
• 19:02
  his people are, just a bunch of strangers, right?
• 19:05
  The people on the train and that's... And again,
• 19:09
  and that's true for a lot of famous folks, right?
• 19:12
  When we talked about this with long ago when
• 19:14
  we did our series on the biographies and the,
• 19:17
  you know, it was true for Sophie Tucker too,
• 19:21
  right? But the idea that Noah B has this really
• 19:27
  amazing way of capturing the intimacy of family,
• 19:31
  that's why I loved it. And I felt like it told
• 19:36
  a story about some very nuanced human interactions
• 19:42
  and understandings and misunderstandings through
• 19:45
  a vehicle of an industry film, which really wasn't
• 19:50
  about the industry at all. As much as it was
• 19:54
  about some of the tropes, the sacrifices you
• 19:57
  make for fame, and some of the really fantastic
• 20:01
  scenes with George Clooney on that train, encountering
• 20:05
  regular people, and just some lady eating an
• 20:07
  apple, and her just being like, what was the
• 20:09
  last time I saw a regular person eat an apple?
• 20:12
  Things like that. Which, again, I agree. are
• 20:15
  both are pedestrian, but I think Noah B has a
• 20:18
  way of elevating them and making them meaningful.
• 20:22
  And for me, like there's a great scene when Clooney
• 20:25
  is with his daughter and her boyfriend on that
• 20:28
  train, and you can sense the discomfort. And
• 20:31
  the boyfriend is enamored, right, because he's
• 20:34
  with Jay Kelly. But the daughter is humiliated,
• 20:38
  and the daughter just wants him to go away, because
• 20:39
  she just wants to make out with her boyfriend
• 20:41
  on a train. And there's also the added layer
• 20:47
  of... Jay Kelly not really even being able to
• 20:51
  ask his daughter questions that are sensitive
• 20:54
  or meaningful or he can't keep his attention
• 20:58
  on her. So there's a lot there. And again, I
• 21:04
  just I just appreciate the way that the director
• 21:09
  is able to invite us into the kind of interpersonal
• 21:14
  dynamics without losing. those stories in the
• 21:19
  larger narrative of sort of like Hollywood is
• 21:22
  so great or or Hollywood is so fucked up one
• 21:25
  of the other that that's not really destroying
• 21:29
  the integrity of the family dynamics. You know
• 21:34
  I run really cold with him with Noah Baumbach
• 21:38
  and I do but I do think his most successful film
• 21:41
  is The Squid and the Whale right which is doing
• 21:43
  exactly that in terms of family dynamics. But
• 21:46
  I think one of the things that you said, that's
• 21:49
  a reason why I wasn't super, I mean, I thought
• 21:51
  it was fine, but one of the reasons why I wasn't
• 21:55
  super crazy about it is that we are simply presented
• 21:58
  with a workaholic, right? He could have been
• 22:01
  a corporate person, he could have been a lawyer,
• 22:03
  he could have been an athlete, right? And so
• 22:06
  fundamentally, when we strip everything down,
• 22:08
  we have a man who has a bad relationship with
• 22:10
  his two daughters because he worked too much
• 22:11
  when they were young. And in effect, now he is
• 22:16
  isolated, again, he doesn't have a wife, bad
• 22:18
  relationship with his father. And so I think
• 22:21
  what I would say is that... appreciating that
• 22:24
  the strength is those family dynamics. I actually
• 22:27
  don't understand why Jay Kelly needs to be an
• 22:29
  incredibly famous actor. Now, obviously, one
• 22:33
  can say, well, it's because he has a natural
• 22:35
  found family in an entourage that a celebrity
• 22:38
  like him needs. But again, I think that that
• 22:42
  could have been done a million different ways.
• 22:44
  Again, you know, an athlete with his agent, right?
• 22:46
  Like Jerry Maguire. An athlete with a team, right?
• 22:49
  All of these different things. And so, i think
• 22:52
  when when i kind of got down to it i perhaps
• 22:55
  expected more more layering more depth in terms
• 23:00
  of what it actually means to be involved in this
• 23:03
  industry and i will say the other thing about
• 23:05
  it is is to me it is a pastiche it's a pastiche
• 23:10
  of Bergman's It's actually more, it's a takeoff
• 23:14
  on Bergman's, Ingmar Bergman’s, Wild Strawberries.
• 23:16
  So Wild Strawberries, an elderly professor who
• 23:19
  is going to be given a major prize. He travels
• 23:22
  with his daughter -in -law.
• 23:25
  They pick up people and it's the exact same thing.
• 23:27
  We have a road trip. Right. Right? Right. I'm
• 23:30
  going to get the award. And all along the way,
• 23:33
  I'm going to revisit episodes from my past that
• 23:37
  I am going to re -experience. We're going to
• 23:40
  see the moments in the past. I'm going to realize
• 23:42
  I have a bad relationship with my mother. I have
• 23:44
  a bad relationship with my only son. My wife
• 23:47
  died, and I had a terrible marriage with her.
• 23:49
  And so to me, that is the template that Baumbach
• 23:52
  is using. Like, I think consciously that it becomes
• 23:55
  a remake of Wild Strawberries. But then we do
• 23:58
  then have this thing at the end, and forgive
• 23:59
  me, but I have to mention Sullivan's Travels,
• 24:02
  because that scene where Clooney is looking around,
• 24:05
  that's a rip -off of the famous scene in Sullivan's
• 24:08
  Travels where Joe McCrea is sitting around and
• 24:10
  he's like, people just want to be entertained,
• 24:12
  exactly what you said before. Poor people, people
• 24:15
  in prison, they want this kind of relaxation
• 24:17
  from their regular lives. And so it was so weird
• 24:20
  to me where I was like, okay, he's making a reference,
• 24:23
  Baumbach is making a reference to these other
• 24:25
  films, but I still didn't kind of get like, why
• 24:29
  does it have to be that he's a famous actor?
• 24:32
  Well, unless again, this was part of the appeal
• 24:34
  for Clooney, right? To say, I'm going to try
• 24:36
  to work out. Yeah, and I think that I hear what
• 24:39
  you're saying. I think the scenes, the early
• 24:42
  scenes with Billy Crudup, which where he's
• 24:45
  like, yes, this is what I want to do. I want
• 24:48
  to be famous. I'm going to read these monologues.
• 24:51
  This is my thing. And then when he goes in accidentally
• 24:56
  and reads the reads and then it becomes a kind
• 24:59
  of addiction. Right. Or as you say, like he's
• 25:02
  he starts out almost accidentally. Right. With
• 25:06
  this successful film with this director. And
• 25:08
  then one thing leads to another. And then he
• 25:11
  has this. relationship that we don't really see,
• 25:14
  but with Bono's daughter. And again, I did buy
• 25:23
  the actor part of it. It didn't bother me as
• 25:27
  much as it bothered you. Although again, I think
• 25:31
  that for me, the other thing that really strengthened
• 25:35
  the film, I think Adam Sandler is so good. I
• 25:39
  agree. He's the best part of it. And he really
• 25:41
  is. He's so terrific. And it's interesting, again,
• 25:46
  I was also discussing this earlier with Jim and,
• 25:49
  you know, Adam Sandler, of course, himself has
• 25:51
  a huge career and, you know, more people on the
• 25:55
  street probably can name an Adam Sandler movie
• 25:58
  than a George Clooney movie. Okay. So the idea
• 26:02
  that Adam Sandler settles into this managerial
• 26:05
  role, this entourage role, and really shows a
• 26:09
  kind of vulnerability and really shows this interesting
• 26:12
  relationship to the talent is so fascinating.
• 26:15
  And I loved I loved him in this movie. I love
• 26:18
  seeing Adam Sandler in dramatic roles. And I
• 26:20
  I do think the movie would have been much much
• 26:23
  weaker without Larder and without... I agree.
• 26:27
  Yeah, I didn't really see why we needed that
• 26:28
  plotline. And yeah, I mean, I just think that
• 26:31
  they were really, really, really... Terrific.
• 26:35
  Yeah, I don't know why they had to write to be
• 26:37
  together but I'm saying like they're to see all
• 26:40
  the people around him and and and also Again,
• 26:44
  the people he meets on the way maybe not so much
• 26:47
  but certainly Sandler who is really central to
• 26:49
  the movie Yes is is so is so terrific again,
• 26:54
  and I think adds so much meaning to What it what
• 26:59
  it means to be famous and what it also means
• 27:02
  to not be famous is right but Not get the credit
• 27:05
  but contribute to the fame is such which of course
• 27:08
  is in the studio, right? So much so it's so important
• 27:11
  the main friend of course the final that final
• 27:14
  up the Golden Globes episode, you know is all
• 27:16
  about that and it's an interesting question in
• 27:20
  terms of all these people who support other people
• 27:22
  and either don't receive the credit or get blown
• 27:25
  off or get discarded or You know their their
• 27:29
  contributions aren't recognized and I think that
• 27:31
  that's Adam Sandler just does an amazing job
• 27:35
  conveying that. Of course, but we also have the
• 27:39
  note, someone says that it might be the Isla
• 27:42
  Fisher character who says, well, of course, someone
• 27:44
  like Adam Sandler is benefiting financially.
• 27:48
  It's not just that the Clooney character is sort
• 27:51
  of confusing friendship or family with business
• 27:54
  associates or employees, but that also... from
• 27:57
  Adam Sandler's side, but then you have that beautiful,
• 27:59
  beautiful moment where they're holding hands
• 28:02
  with this incredibly moving scene. When they
• 28:04
  put the makeup on. Yes, that was great. The Sharpie
• 28:07
  on the eyebrows. I love the Sharpie on the eyebrows.
• 28:09
  For me, again, my bar is real low. Okay. And
• 28:12
  so when I see those really tender, amazing moments,
• 28:17
  that's what made me love the film. And so again,
• 28:21
  that combined with a lot of these big questions
• 28:24
  being asked, existential questions about being
• 28:27
  present or being absent or, you know, making
• 28:30
  other choices. I love the Patrick Wilson character.
• 28:33
  I thought that was a great little like nugget
• 28:35
  planted in there. It was unexpected in some ways
• 28:39
  to have it be Patrick Wilson. So that's probably
• 28:42
  why I loved it. And had Adam Sandler not been
• 28:45
  in it, I don't think I would have loved it. But
• 28:47
  there were so many fantastic scenes with the
• 28:51
  two of them. And they're not two people you think
• 28:53
  of together. No, never. Never in a million years.
• 28:56
  Well, and the last thing I'll say about it is
• 28:57
  that I did think what was very touching about
• 28:59
  it, in some ways it's kind of like watching Wild
• 29:00
  Strawberries, is that Clooney looks so physically
• 29:04
  fragile in this film. Yeah, he does. He does.
• 29:07
  He looks... like a man at the end of his career.
• 29:11
  He does. And of course, just thinking about George
• 29:12
  Clooney. And again, seeing that fantastic montage,
• 29:14
  right? And the picture of him at the park. Remarkable.
• 29:18
  I mean, so beautiful. He is a gorgeous man. So
• 29:20
  beautiful. And so I thought that that really
• 29:22
  was like a moment of tenderness to consistently
• 29:25
  just see him look fragile, right? And to look
• 29:28
  like an aged actor. Ah, so let's move on a little
• 29:31
  bit and talk about, let's see, we were going
• 29:33
  to talk about The Player and The Studio. Right,
• 29:35
  but we need to talk about The Player first. We
• 29:37
  do, and so The Player was an absolute sort of
• 29:41
  dynamic hit, and really controversial in some
• 29:44
  ways when it first came out, what, 1989 perhaps,
• 29:49
  88? Because it was so biting about Hollywood,
• 29:53
  so cynical, and I hate to sound negative, but
• 29:56
  directed by Robert Altman, who I think is probably
• 30:00
  the single most overrated American director.
• 30:03
  1992. Thank you. 1992. The single most overrated
• 30:07
  director in American film history. I hate to
• 30:09
  say it. But The Player is in so many ways. It's
• 30:13
  so engaging. It's so fascinating. One of the
• 30:15
  early starring roles of Tim Robbins. Right. Who
• 30:17
  is wonderful. Wonderful. Playing a venal, evil
• 30:21
  Hollywood studio executive. um who is uh who
• 30:26
  becomes a murderer not to spoil it too much no
• 30:29
  but so we have a lot of cameos by real actors
• 30:32
  playing them well we have a lot of actors people
• 30:35
  playing themselves and playing other characters
• 30:37
  but yes there are a lot of india angelica Huston's
• 30:41
  the Burt Reynolds the Andie Mcdowell is not herself
• 30:45
  right she is herself. She is herself? She is
• 30:49
  herself. Okay. I couldn't remember at that point
• 30:51
  whether she had had enough fame to be herself.
• 30:53
  Yes, I believe she is herself. And so he ends
• 30:57
  up being a murderer, he ends up killing a writer
• 31:01
  that he believes is stalking him. And he also
• 31:03
  ends up having a relationship with the writer's
• 31:05
  lover, played by Greta Scaatchi, looking very
• 31:08
  beautiful in this film. And so it is about the
• 31:13
  difference between certainly art and commerce.
• 31:15
  We have the issue here of the studio that wants
• 31:18
  the blockbuster with the happy ending and the
• 31:22
  writers who are pursuing art. Again, the studio
• 31:25
  executive is someone pitched between these things.
• 31:27
  And basically the entire film is about whether
• 31:31
  Griffin Mill, the studio executive, whether he
• 31:33
  has a soul or not, and whether he's going to
• 31:35
  lose it if he does have one. Right. Right. And,
• 31:38
  you know, there are so many interesting things
• 31:40
  that go into The Player. I mean, there's the
• 31:44
  whodunit of who is sending Griffin all of these
• 31:49
  stalkery notes. postcards and faxes and things
• 31:53
  like that. And we really never find out. But
• 31:57
  there's also questions about him, although he
• 32:00
  is a really disgusting human being. The question
• 32:05
  of, well, can he really, you know, he does murder
• 32:07
  somebody, but then, you know, he murders somebody
• 32:11
  and how is he going to get away with it? And
• 32:14
  there are these wonderful performances by Whoopi
• 32:17
  Goldberg and Lyle Lovett as the detectives who
• 32:21
  are so sort of nonchalant in their policing of
• 32:25
  him, which I think is really, really great. And
• 32:28
  again, along the way, we see all kinds of pitches
• 32:32
  and failed pitches. and people who are wanting
• 32:37
  to make it in the industry. And people on their
• 32:39
  way down. And people on their way down. And the
• 32:43
  person who Griffin Mill kills had this experience
• 32:48
  in Tokyo as a student and wanted to make a film
• 32:51
  about that and wrote a film about that. And he
• 32:54
  sort of casually... blows them off and says,
• 32:57
  well, you know, I just didn't like it. And I
• 32:58
  don't think it was compelling. It doesn't have
• 33:00
  the sex. And the funny, you know, there are these
• 33:02
  components that every film has to have, or several
• 33:05
  of these components need to be present for one
• 33:08
  of the, what they say are 12 films a year that
• 33:10
  get greenlit. And his film didn't have them.
• 33:14
  But it also, again, this is biting satire on
• 33:17
  how just kind of arbitrary choices are, how,
• 33:22
  you know, you could have a sad movie, like Terms
• 33:24
  of Endearment but in the end everyone needs a
• 33:27
  happy ending and people kind of come in and out
• 33:31
  and talent is you know ingratiated and then you
• 33:35
  have the Peter Gallagher character who wants
• 33:39
  to take over or does take over Tim Robbins'
• 33:42
  job but the industry is very volatile and people,
• 33:47
  I mean, players, right? We can think of players
• 33:49
  as being pushed around like pawns by these various
• 33:53
  studio heads who themselves are vulnerable, right?
• 33:56
  As we'll talk about more with The Studio. But
• 34:00
  the whole thing is a kind of house of cards waiting
• 34:03
  to collapse. And I think one of the things that's
• 34:06
  really interesting about it is that we can compare
• 34:08
  it to something like The Talented Mr. Ripley
• 34:10
  where I say, do we ever root for Griffin Mill?
• 34:12
  Because he's so... Awful. He is awful. And we're
• 34:16
  not really given the sense that he's an idealist
• 34:19
  in terms of the art, right? No. In terms of film
• 34:22
  history, in terms of film itself. And so we don't
• 34:26
  want... This is what I think is so great about
• 34:28
  The Player. We don't want him to succeed, right?
• 34:32
  We read him in a lot of ways as a villain, but...
• 34:35
  Sorry, go ahead. No, no, no. The one thing I
• 34:37
  would say, the only time where I'm rooting for
• 34:39
  him, only because I... is when they're... he
• 34:42
  sees the police are at the airport and he says,
• 34:46
  let's go to the desert. And the reason I want
• 34:48
  them to go to the desert is because I want to
• 34:50
  see them together. Not because I want him to
• 34:53
  get away with the crime, but because obviously
• 34:56
  they haven't really had a full on date and they
• 35:00
  haven't had sex yet, that sort of thing. And
• 35:02
  you want to see what that looks like. So I really
• 35:05
  was at that moment saying, and again, I hadn't
• 35:07
  seen the movie in a while. I was thinking, please.
• 35:10
  please don't arrest him right now. Let him go
• 35:13
  to the desert. Let him go to the hot springs.
• 35:15
  And I did remember actually there was that great,
• 35:18
  fantastic hot spring scene where they're in the
• 35:20
  mud baths next to each other and he's pick up
• 35:23
  the phone. It's just great. So I was kind of
• 35:27
  waiting. In some ways it was like retroactive.
• 35:29
  Like I didn't want him to get arrested because
• 35:32
  I wanted to see him in the hot springs. And we
• 35:36
  do. But of course, this is the great thing about
• 35:39
  the player is that the film has to have a happy
• 35:42
  ending, as we're told. And so the film gives
• 35:45
  us a happy ending in the sense that someone who
• 35:48
  is a murderer and pretty venal and also, in effect,
• 35:50
  is kind of cheating on his existing ex -girlfriend
• 35:53
  kind of sort of like their situation or whatever.
• 35:56
  Whatever when he starts doing whatever with Greta
• 35:58
  Scotchi. And so we end up having the happy ending
• 36:03
  that we're kind of angry that we have. And this,
• 36:07
  of course, is, I think, so fantastic about The
• 36:09
  Player. It is. And then it all, of course, all
• 36:11
  becomes incredibly meta. Yes. Art imitates, well,
• 36:14
  art imitates life. And then three times, because
• 36:17
  the Bruce Willis, Julia Roberts movie ends, you
• 36:21
  know, “Traffic was a bitch." And then, of course,
• 36:24
  Griffin Mill, traffic was a bitch. And then we
• 36:26
  realize we're watching The Player. We're watching
• 36:29
  the movie that was pitched to him by the writer
• 36:32
  that was stalking him. Yes. Which is called as
• 36:35
  we're told the player the player and so I think
• 36:38
  that that's in some ways it's such a perfect
• 36:41
  kind of. I mean, late 80s, early 90s movie, right?
• 36:45
  So cynical, so bitter, so interested in some
• 36:49
  ways in class, not in terms of really socioeconomic
• 36:52
  class, but kind of professional class, right?
• 36:54
  And all of those people, again, who are on going
• 36:56
  up and going down. And the Gina Gershon character
• 36:58
  and the sort of sinker fence and the people that
• 37:02
  are in these restaurants that are sort of moving
• 37:04
  around and different celebrities who are coming
• 37:08
  and going. But, you know, and you see John Cusack.
• 37:12
  Everyone's at their party, yeah. But you also
• 37:14
  see that, again, that... the way in which a Griffin
• 37:18
  Mill sucks up to these celebrities. And again,
• 37:22
  we can talk about that in The Studio, of course,
• 37:24
  but the ways in which they are beholden to them
• 37:27
  at the same time that they make fun of them.
• 37:29
  And the same way that everyone's like, well,
• 37:31
  we can't have a Bruce Willis in this movie because
• 37:33
  we're going to have, you know, the talent. What
• 37:35
  is it? The talent speaks for itself. No, no,
• 37:38
  no names, only talent or whatever. No names.
• 37:41
  And of course, I love Richard E. Grant as one
• 37:43
  of the writers that we have. And that it's not
• 37:46
  just the executives, right? And this, of course,
• 37:48
  is one of the other great little details in the
• 37:50
  player. That the writers themselves, right? Who
• 37:52
  are supposed to be so pure, right? So committed
• 37:55
  to the art. And the writers themselves end up
• 37:58
  just being willing to do anything. Anything for
• 38:00
  the paycheck and the credit and having the movie
• 38:03
  made. But it is also, I think, watching that
• 38:07
  in some ways. I'm not going to say I feel guilty.
• 38:12
  But the satisfaction watching a movie in the
• 38:15
  1980s and early 1990s We wanted to have that
• 38:19
  sort of sassy, you know, yes line. Yes, that
• 38:22
  was so sad It's still satisfied in a lot of ways
• 38:25
  it is but to to be Accused of enjoying it which
• 38:30
  the player does. Yeah, I think that puts us in
• 38:32
  a really interesting position in terms of viewers
• 38:35
  who do like kind of popcorn films or big entertainment
• 38:38
  and especially of course that it was Bruce Willis
• 38:40
  right at the time and that was the peak Bruce
• 38:43
  Willis fame right right absolutely right and
• 38:46
  so I think it's really interesting how we are
• 38:48
  positioned as viewers and enjoy as a film in
• 38:51
  the player. Nobody, I think nobody is safe in
• 38:54
  that film, which I think is so interesting. It
• 38:55
  is, it is. And I think the other thing that I
• 38:58
  like about the player just thinking about locale
• 39:01
  and thinking about music and things like that
• 39:03
  is it is a really interesting job of not kind
• 39:07
  of featuring Tim Robbins is this sort of ultra
• 39:12
  wealthy, Hollywood mansion, you know, by the
• 39:15
  pool. It doesn't show that world. He's as, again,
• 39:19
  as disgusting as he is, ethically, morally, all
• 39:23
  of that. And we see, you know, he has a Range
• 39:25
  Rover, but we don't see him as the sort of, although
• 39:28
  Jeremy Piven is in it, he's not Ari Gold. And
• 39:33
  that's what's so interesting to me is that, again,
• 39:35
  the world of Ari Gold, which is captured, again,
• 39:39
  so brilliantly in Entourage, is not captured
• 39:42
  in the player. And it isn't, again, as much as
• 39:45
  it is about commercialism, it isn't about personal
• 39:49
  material gain. Yes. Agreed. Even though he does
• 39:52
  have a fantastic car. He does. But I hear what
• 39:55
  you're saying. But do you understand what I'm
• 39:56
  saying? Ari Gold is all about the Benjamins,
• 39:59
  and we see his fantastic mansion, and we see
• 40:01
  his... tennis club. Yeah, sure. We see the world
• 40:05
  of R .E. Gold, which is beyond ostentation, okay?
• 40:08
  And this is a very different, and that's to say
• 40:12
  that Tim Robbins doesn't have those things. We
• 40:14
  just don't see it. We don't see it. It's not
• 40:15
  dwelt upon. No. Okay, but I think I have to say,
• 40:18
  and in part this is why I don't like Robert Altman.
• 40:21
  Okay. I mean, I absolutely despise Shortcuts,
• 40:23
  which was the film that he followed up The Player
• 40:25
  with. And I'm the only person I think in the
• 40:27
  world who thought Nashville was terrible. But
• 40:30
  I hate to bring up Sullivan's Travels again.
• 40:32
  Okay, okay. So Sullivan's Travels, again a Preston
• 40:35
  Surges film, what, 1941, and of course the whole
• 40:39
  point, as we said a few minutes ago, the whole
• 40:41
  point of Sullivan's Travels is the director who
• 40:44
  wants to make a kind of very socially responsible,
• 40:47
  you know, sort of heavy film about the quote
• 40:49
  -unquote working man that... he ends up realizing
• 40:52
  by the end of Sullivan's Travels that entertainment
• 40:55
  is so valuable in itself, right? That what the
• 40:58
  working man wants is not the film about his own
• 41:02
  socioeconomic condition, but he wants something
• 41:05
  where he can laugh. And what is so interesting
• 41:08
  is that Robert Altman then gives us a film. that
• 41:12
  despises audiences for wanting that. And I think
• 41:15
  that that and that I think comments upon Robert
• 41:18
  Altman. It certainly comments upon that generation
• 41:21
  that Robert Altman belonged to as directors in
• 41:24
  the late 1960s and early 1970s when Altman became
• 41:27
  famous. But I think that that's the juxtaposition
• 41:30
  of those two things. I'm kind of disconcerted
• 41:32
  by it because, again, Sullivan's Travels is making
• 41:36
  a fantastic case for entertainment. And The Player...
• 41:40
  in a lot of ways despises entertainment. And
• 41:43
  it is really hard to understand what film is
• 41:47
  good art. according to The Player. But in a sense,
• 41:50
  it's not even interested in that question at
• 41:51
  all. Because it's given up on Hollywood. The
• 41:53
  Bicycle Thief. Ah, yes, of course. The bicycle
• 41:57
  thief. How can I forget? The bicycle thief. Because,
• 41:59
  again, that's where our writer is murdered after
• 42:02
  seeing it. That's the purity. The purity of Italian
• 42:06
  post -war cinema. No, thank you for reminding
• 42:09
  me of that. Yes. Which we can never capture again.
• 42:12
  And even Tim Robbins says, well, we'll do it
• 42:15
  pure. But we know that Tim Robbins is never going
• 42:19
  to remake The Bicycle Thief. It is never going
• 42:21
  to, but that's probably a good thing anyway.
• 42:23
  It is. So, well actually now let's start talking
• 42:25
  about The Studio because this is of course a
• 42:28
  key issue in The Studio. Yes. The relationship
• 42:30
  between art and commerce as well as that question
• 42:32
  of credit that came up a few minutes ago. And
• 42:35
  as we've discussed, it is not accidental that
• 42:39
  the head of the... entire company in the studio
• 42:43
  is named Griffin Mill. I believe that Seth Rogen
• 42:47
  and his partner, his writing partner, were going
• 42:49
  for continuity with The Player universe. Who
• 42:52
  knows? I think it would have been fantastic if
• 42:54
  Tim Robbins were playing the role of Griffin
• 42:57
  Mill. It is Bryan Cranston. But we do have it
• 43:00
  in this series, which is super enjoyable. We
• 43:03
  have a brand new studio head, and he is doing
• 43:07
  a lot of awkward things. He is doing a lot of
• 43:09
  awkward things. He's coming into this Continental
• 43:12
  Studios universe, which is known for making action
• 43:16
  movies. MK -Ultra series. Completely vapid, just
• 43:22
  popcorn flicks. Big entertainment. Big entertainment.
• 43:25
  No sort of artistic. Prestige films, no art house.
• 43:29
  And the Seth Rogen character very much sees himself
• 43:33
  at least in the beginning, as maybe being able
• 43:36
  to insert some kind of art or artistic values
• 43:40
  into this new studio, which he quickly learns
• 43:44
  is Not possible. Not possible. And that he very
• 43:47
  much is someone who is a fan of cinema. Yes.
• 43:50
  That he takes film very, very seriously. He is
• 43:52
  a fan. He's the whole movie magic. And he wants
• 43:55
  to be understood as someone who is genuinely
• 43:58
  contributing to the art, whether that's the MK
• 44:01
  Ultra series or the vampire film. It's all art.
• 44:04
  Yes. It's all art to him. And it doesn't really
• 44:07
  matter. what the, again, whether you're making
• 44:10
  Citizen Kane or whether you're making the MK
• 44:12
  Ultra or whatever, however many, Fast and the
• 44:16
  Furious 8, or the, what is it, Blink, Wink, the
• 44:21
  sequel to Smile. The Zoe Kravitz vampire film.
• 44:26
  The great thing about The Studio, and I didn't
• 44:28
  love it by any means, and I thought it was really
• 44:31
  uneven, and there were some episodes that I thought
• 44:34
  were terrific and some episodes that I could
• 44:36
  have Probably done without. And I think the end
• 44:38
  was kind of ridiculous. The very end. Again,
• 44:43
  I loved the Golden Globe episode, but I sort
• 44:45
  of wish it had ended there. I actually thought
• 44:48
  that it had until I realized there were a couple
• 44:49
  more episodes. Because it's a great place to
• 44:52
  finish. That is a great place to finish. With
• 44:54
  him in the limo by himself. Yes, it's a great
• 44:57
  place. And again, very Clooney. But the great
• 45:02
  things about the studio are all of these really
• 45:07
  funny moments that question kind of contemporary
• 45:12
  popular culture that utilize current directors
• 45:16
  and actors and the zeitgeist and a lot of the
• 45:20
  issues that are going on. And that, again, there's
• 45:22
  so many people that participated in this with
• 45:25
  Rogan who lent their person and there's their
• 45:29
  time and so it's there's some episodes where
• 45:32
  you really Get a sense of you know, this could
• 45:35
  have happened, right? Oh, yeah I mean, I'm gonna
• 45:37
  make the Kool -Aid movie and it sounds ridiculous
• 45:39
  when you first hear it and they're like, you
• 45:40
  know what? Why wouldn't, they're going to make
• 45:43
  a Polly Pocket movie, right? Why wouldn't they
• 45:46
  make the Kool -Aid movie? And so, and again,
• 45:49
  it was, I was very relieved to see when I was
• 45:53
  finished, or at least in the second episode,
• 45:55
  that the whole series wasn't about the making
• 45:57
  of the Kool -Aid movie. Although it does reappear.
• 45:58
  It does reappear. Occasionally. It's on the docket.
• 46:01
  And that great episode about diversity in the
• 46:04
  Kool -Aid movie is a brilliant episode. Brilliant.
• 46:06
  Brilliant episode. And I, one of my, definitely
• 46:09
  one of my favorites of the series. and hilarious
• 46:12
  and the conversations they're having about what
• 46:16
  it would mean to have the Kool -Aid man as being
• 46:18
  a black man and then whether he needs to be married
• 46:20
  to a black woman. I mean, again, you can see
• 46:22
  those conversations happening and it's really,
• 46:26
  really smart. But the nice thing about the series
• 46:28
  too is that it moves through a lot of different
• 46:30
  elements of kind of Hollywood. moviemaking so
• 46:35
  it every every episode isn't the same and it
• 46:39
  captures again I love the episode where Quinn
• 46:42
  the what is she assistant VP or brand new exec
• 46:46
  um is able to kind of outwit the um the the other
• 46:51
  character who's Sal Saperstein right who's a
• 46:55
  a much a much higher uh creative director um
• 46:59
  for all kinds of reasons and really use like
• 47:01
  me too and contemporary that episode really bothered
• 47:04
  me i really i really liked it in part because
• 47:07
  I'll be honest. I mean some of the Rogan stuff
• 47:10
  in the beginning of the series really he just
• 47:13
  kind of annoyed me So I was happy to see an episode
• 47:16
  where he wasn't there. Yes He's not a focus and
• 47:19
  I really liked her and I really liked what was
• 47:21
  going on with the two of them and in and again
• 47:25
  a totally satirical way and Again, I there were
• 47:29
  some episodes where I just was wanted less of
• 47:32
  him less of Rogan well, and it's in some ways
• 47:35
  what is so strange about it, especially after
• 47:37
  seeing the player, is that, of course, the basic
• 47:40
  point is that he's hapless, right? That he's
• 47:44
  a klutz, he doesn't really, he has imposter syndrome,
• 47:46
  he doesn't understand why he is really head of
• 47:48
  the studio, even though he's worked for this,
• 47:50
  and we're told that he begins as a production
• 47:52
  assistant, works his way up, but that all, we
• 47:56
  have all of these episodes, these moments where
• 47:59
  he has no... commitment to principle, he's so
• 48:03
  nervous, he's anxious about his own choices,
• 48:05
  and so in a sense we very much do have a Seth
• 48:08
  Rogen, he should be in a t -shirt smoking pot
• 48:10
  kind of character, who now is the head of a major
• 48:12
  movie studio. And so when we have the Golden
• 48:16
  Globes moment where he's... in the bathroom with
• 48:19
  Ted Sarandos playing himself on Netflix. And
• 48:22
  of course you look at Ted Sarandos, who's probably
• 48:24
  not too much older than Seth Rogen. And it's
• 48:27
  very much the case that Seth Rogen's character
• 48:30
  is supposed to be more just immature and uncertain.
• 48:33
  And then to have this actual executive who's
• 48:36
  like, yes, of course I put it in the contract
• 48:37
  that they have to thank me. I'm a bean counter.
• 48:39
  I'm a bean counter. That's what I am. I'm not
• 48:41
  the artist. And so I thought that all of that
• 48:43
  uncertainty, the Seth Rogen character, definitely,
• 48:46
  we have too much of it, a lot, right? That he
• 48:50
  is not committed, he's kind of buffeted by these
• 48:52
  different, different winds. So, and he wants
• 48:54
  to be thanked, as we learned at the Golden Globe
• 48:57
  episode. He wants to be thanked. He does want
• 48:58
  to be thanked. And again, the thing, I guess
• 49:00
  some... Part of me wish he had cast someone else
• 49:04
  in his own role. Yeah, I agree because again
• 49:07
  Seth Rogen's smoking pot Yeah, that's the Seth
• 49:10
  Rogen. I love the knocked up Seth Rogen. Yes.
• 49:14
  That's the one I love Yeah, fuck up and just
• 49:18
  and we know with with the out with the out with
• 49:20
  Jonah Hill and you know all that and so I don't
• 49:23
  really want to see him in the Griffin Mill role
• 49:26
  Yeah, and it's a stretch and I think although
• 49:29
  again The episode that we talked about with the
• 49:34
  doctor, the oncologist, which is so funny, and
• 49:38
  there you see pot -smoking Seth Rogen come out.
• 49:42
  Because again, when he's defending... All movies
• 49:45
  are art, you know, you go into a hospital room
• 49:48
  and what's on the wall, a screen, there's a movie
• 49:51
  on it, right? That's that Seth Rogen. That's
• 49:54
  a Seth Rogen, again, going back to Knocked Up,
• 49:57
  where he could clock, you know, who's naked.
• 50:01
  And I love that Seth Rogen. And I feel like that
• 50:06
  Seth Rogen came out much more in that episode.
• 50:09
  And in some of the other episodes, it feels like
• 50:11
  he's playing dress up. Yes. especially with the
• 50:14
  phone calls from his mother. And again, that
• 50:17
  he is in effect a 16 year old kid. But let's
• 50:19
  actually talk about the pediatric oncologist
• 50:22
  episode for a minute, because this episode gets
• 50:26
  to the heart of what it means to be a movie maker,
• 50:30
  what it means to love film, what it means to
• 50:33
  love popular culture. And I think both of us...
• 50:37
  probably felt this episode very keenly. I did.
• 50:40
  Surrounded as we are by academics who are often
• 50:43
  very dismissive. Right. And hostile to and patronizing
• 50:47
  to television popular culture. especially non
• 50:53
  -prestige popular literature. Yes, and so we
• 50:55
  have Seth Rogen's' character is dating a pediatric
• 50:59
  oncologist, he goes to a benefit where he meets
• 51:03
  other doctors, and every single one of them is
• 51:07
  brutally dismissive of his work as a studio head,
• 51:11
  which he then tries to defend. Well, he... They're
• 51:15
  also, I mean, there's that wonderful scene where
• 51:17
  they're juxtaposing her on the phone with her
• 51:20
  pediatric cancer trial. Pediatric trials for
• 51:25
  cancer, new cancer drug, and he's talking about
• 51:28
  a Johnny Knoxville film. Yeah, with diarrhea.
• 51:30
  With diarrhea, right. And that's really... terrific.
• 51:33
  And the question of whether or not saving children
• 51:36
  with cancer is as important as running a studio.
• 51:40
  And he is relentless. Relentless. He wants them
• 51:44
  to admit it. Yeah. Yeah. And of course they won't.
• 51:47
  And it's not just that they won't, but that they
• 51:49
  also really put down the art in general, the
• 51:55
  genre, the movies, like it's not worth anything.
• 52:00
  It would be nothing. Nobody would Nobody would
• 52:02
  be for the worst if it didn't exist. Sure, I'll
• 52:05
  watch the bear. This, of course, is the perfect
• 52:08
  exchange that as time goes on, they become more
• 52:12
  unapologetic about making fun of him and making
• 52:16
  fun of his work. And it absolutely is so, absolutely
• 52:20
  perfect. And it's so spot on. Did you see The
• 52:23
  Bear? Did you say that the bear now is the totem
• 52:26
  for the people who are, I don't watch TV. I don't
• 52:29
  watch TV, but I watch the bear. And I thought
• 52:31
  that I absolutely loved that. And we really do.
• 52:34
  And I hate to say it again, but we have exactly
• 52:37
  that. Sullivan's Travels moment, where this is
• 52:41
  the benefit, this is the gift that you are giving
• 52:43
  to, this is the argument, right, that he is trying
• 52:46
  to make. You are giving a gift to humanity, to
• 52:49
  entertain them, to take their minds off their
• 52:52
  troubles or lead them to see beautiful images.
• 52:54
  Which, of course, George Clooney realizes at
• 52:56
  the end of his movie, that this is the gift that
• 53:00
  he gave. This is the gift. All of these people
• 53:02
  that you will never know. who are not related
• 53:05
  to you, not even, again, your chosen family,
• 53:07
  but that you are able to put something out there
• 53:10
  into the world that gives other human beings,
• 53:13
  millions of human beings, happiness. But it is
• 53:15
  never the case that in the studio, in this episode
• 53:19
  of The Pediatric Oncologist, they will not admit
• 53:23
  this. No. They will not, even after he says,
• 53:26
  if they go into a hospital room, right, there's
• 53:28
  the screen. But interestingly, again, and they
• 53:30
  didn't discuss this as much, and Seth Rogen didn't
• 53:32
  say it, but they, They're all bidding on this
• 53:35
  golf trip, right, to Ireland with this golf pro.
• 53:39
  And they are fine to say that golf and the experience
• 53:44
  with the golf pro is worthy and is as valid,
• 53:49
  you know, certainly valid enough to bid, you
• 53:52
  know, I don't know, $10 ,000 or more. I mean,
• 53:55
  so yes, you can bid $200 ,000 on that golf trip.
• 53:59
  but that they, for some reason, golf is a kind
• 54:03
  of art that is acceptable, whereas the kind of
• 54:06
  movies that Seth Rogen makes are not. Are not.
• 54:11
  Are a waste of time, waste of money. And that
• 54:14
  moment where they're doing the betting at the
• 54:16
  auction on the golf trip, I think is so incredibly
• 54:19
  satisfying. It is. Because you want him to, and
• 54:22
  you know he's going to. And you know he's going
• 54:24
  to. And just this sort of excitement where And
• 54:27
  then they have the gall to say, well, give us
• 54:30
  the trip. And I think the pediatric oncologist
• 54:32
  said he's dating. And she says, well, give them
• 54:34
  the trip. And I was like, well, fuck off. Why
• 54:37
  should you do that? Why should they give him
• 54:38
  the trip? This is money that he has made making
• 54:40
  these films that you disparage. And I don't know,
• 54:44
  it was just, it was so. Viscerally sad it was
• 54:48
  when he did that well especially because in the
• 54:50
  earlier scene where he's with her before they
• 54:53
  go to the benefit or gal or whatever and she
• 54:56
  admits she hasn't seen like. Anything. Anything.
• 54:58
  Anything. She hasn't seen anything. She hasn't
• 54:59
  seen even like the Wizard of Oz. Nothing. Nothing.
• 55:03
  This woman has seen no movies. And he's like,
• 55:05
  well, we'll keep adding it to the list. And he's
• 55:07
  very patient with her. And he doesn't say, well,
• 55:10
  you're just some, you know, asshole. You're the
• 55:12
  Philistine who doesn't know anything about the
• 55:14
  Wizard of Oz. Because you've never heard of,
• 55:17
  I don't know, again. Star Wars or whatever. Right.
• 55:19
  Right. She hasn't seen. Or even again, even The
• 55:21
  Bicycle Thief. Right. She has never even seen
• 55:24
  The Bicycle Thief. She's not seen Bergman films.
• 55:28
  She didn't see Wild Strawberries. Right, right.
• 55:30
  This woman just is film -phobic, maybe. Who knows?
• 55:35
  But has she seen the bear? Has she seen the bear?
• 55:39
  I just, why did the bear become like... I don't...
• 55:42
  Oh, I mean... I don't know. I don't watch TV,
• 55:46
  but I watch the bear. I watch the bear. All those
• 55:49
  great needle drops and the bear. All those great
• 55:52
  shots of Chicago. Well, to me, it's the combination
• 55:55
  of the Chicago, the kind of class poverty simulation,
• 56:04
  the racial diversity. Also, because the bear
• 56:10
  is itself a critique of food and art and taking
• 56:16
  the high road or, you know, what happens when
• 56:19
  you sacrifice your family. Again, another thing
• 56:22
  what happens when you sacrifice your family for
• 56:24
  high art. Yes. Okay. Well, and of course - Which
• 56:26
  is so interesting. Again, which is so interesting
• 56:29
  that they're actually, and this is a very meta
• 56:32
  level of course, but they're not talking about
• 56:35
  their critique of the bear being similar to many
• 56:39
  of the arguments that Seth Rogen is making. Yes.
• 56:44
  Is that right? Well, I don't know. I think I'm
• 56:49
  getting confused. Well, I guess, I mean, again,
• 56:52
  and this is to go off script from the studio,
• 56:57
  but if people like the bear, be caught. because
• 57:01
  it's quote real, authentic, gritty, and about
• 57:08
  the kinds of people you should be watching on
• 57:10
  TV and like representational issues and all of
• 57:14
  that kind of stuff. It's also a series about
• 57:19
  someone who wants to do something that would
• 57:23
  be the best in the world really. Something that
• 57:26
  no one else is the best in the world at or like
• 57:28
  five people can do at a time. Somebody who wants
• 57:31
  to be a dilettante, who feels guilty about wanting
• 57:34
  to be a dilettante. And the bear, again, not
• 57:39
  to suggest the doctors in the studio don't eat
• 57:42
  the food that's at the bear at the restaurant.
• 57:46
  And they don't think that that's important, by
• 57:48
  the way, because I don't think any of those doctors
• 57:50
  would say, we don't need restaurants. But of
• 57:53
  course, the thing it seems to me that those doctors
• 57:55
  would actually gravitate to in the bear is the
• 57:58
  bear's sort of uber -serious presentation of
• 58:02
  a $500 dinner as something that is serving humanity,
• 58:06
  just like a hospital. Correct, correct. Which
• 58:09
  of course is so ridiculous and so offensive in
• 58:11
  the bear, and so classist. But yes, one can see
• 58:15
  those doctors gravitating to that sort of, again,
• 58:17
  uber -serious. Right, but it's only because the
• 58:21
  bear, and again, not to get into into a whole
• 58:22
  bear thing. But the bear started as a gritty
• 58:26
  family place. And it came, and it's a, you know,
• 58:30
  it's a pull yourself up by your boots. And again,
• 58:32
  as you say, poverty simulation. Yeah, it is.
• 58:34
  Isn't it cute that the working classes like are
• 58:36
  doing their thing? And like working in a kitchen.
• 58:37
  And then like went to culinary school and like
• 58:39
  learned an actual skill. Yes. But then also we're
• 58:42
  working at Perse and French Laundry and all of
• 58:44
  these other things that are like resonant. Right.
• 58:47
  Yeah. So again, on the studio, I I would say,
• 58:52
  again, it's not like I want to go back and watch
• 58:55
  it. I would watch another season if it came out.
• 58:57
  I would, too. But the unevenness of it at times
• 59:01
  bothered me. And I think, again, Rogan, I think
• 59:04
  he's a good writer. I think he's a good producer.
• 59:08
  I wish he had cast somebody else that just fit
• 59:11
  more into that mold, had the look a little bit
• 59:15
  more of Studio Head. And I think there's obviously
• 59:18
  plenty of people out there that do it. I think
• 59:20
  the rest of, and the other thing is the Sal Saperstein
• 59:22
  character. Well, I liked the Golden Globe because
• 59:25
  it was so funny and also so like spot on in terms
• 59:30
  of these people just thanking this random guy.
• 59:32
  He also irritated me. And the relationship between
• 59:36
  the two of them didn't really feel like it had
• 59:39
  a whole lot of nuance to it. So again, it was...
• 59:44
  And the fact that the episodes also, many of
• 59:47
  them... took on these different genres or twists
• 59:50
  and there's a noir episode and there's the episode
• 59:53
  with the one cut, right? That threw me a little
• 59:58
  bit because it took the focus off of the development
• 1:00:01
  on Rogan as a studio head and trying to come
• 1:00:05
  into this role as his own. Because he's pretty
• 1:00:08
  static throughout the entire season. Yeah. And
• 1:00:10
  we don't see any kind of growth in his confidence
• 1:00:13
  or his persona. And obviously there's the kind
• 1:00:15
  of flip -flopping. with the, I mean, it is very
• 1:00:18
  entertaining to see Martin Scorsese start to
• 1:00:20
  cry, realizing that he is not in fact going to
• 1:00:22
  make his Jim Jones Kool -Aid film. But he is
• 1:00:26
  static, and he is this foil that everyone else
• 1:00:29
  is working on. But nobody else has really developed
• 1:00:31
  either. And that's why certainly the Quinn character,
• 1:00:33
  I think, will be interesting, as much as I didn't
• 1:00:35
  like the episode where she was fighting against
• 1:00:37
  Sal. the idea of, okay, she's a young woman who
• 1:00:40
  was able to weaponize this identity, and to see
• 1:00:44
  how she develops. And one thing I did like a
• 1:00:47
  lot about the studio, and this obviously had
• 1:00:49
  to happen, is the idea that you have sort of
• 1:00:51
  this old studio dragon like Patty, who's from
• 1:00:55
  the Bob Evans era, who then has to deal with
• 1:00:58
  this kind of social media, like hyper, sort of
• 1:01:02
  articulated marketing. And that's very cool.
• 1:01:05
  Yeah, and that juxtaposition was nice. But I'd
• 1:01:08
  like to see more of her, too. Yes, I would as
• 1:01:11
  well. That was, to me, the Rogan -centric storytelling.
• 1:01:17
  in some ways, sidelined the more interesting
• 1:01:19
  characters. And again, the Quinn episode, it
• 1:01:23
  was just so nice to see someone else, to learn
• 1:01:27
  about somebody else's life and to see what her
• 1:01:31
  motivations were. And then like, oh, well, there's
• 1:01:33
  this person who's been just kind of walking around
• 1:01:35
  with other people, taking notes for a few episodes.
• 1:01:38
  It doesn't even have that many lines. And now
• 1:01:40
  we kind of understand her. And I love that moment
• 1:01:43
  at the end. And I think that moment at the end
• 1:01:44
  between the two of them is really fantastic.
• 1:01:46
  It is. where she says, I need to learn. And he
• 1:01:48
  says, well, and you can learn from me, but you
• 1:01:50
  need to appreciate that I've been doing this
• 1:01:52
  for a long time. And they actually get to this
• 1:01:53
  point in the workplace that is this mutually
• 1:01:56
  respectful situation. And so I thought that was
• 1:01:58
  a great ending to that. I mean, I think the problem
• 1:02:00
  with the Seth Robbins stuff is that fundamentally
• 1:02:03
  it makes the series seem like Curb Your Enthusiasm.
• 1:02:06
  I was just going to say, there's so much curb
• 1:02:09
  in it. The awkward, jorky, I'm in this situation,
• 1:02:13
  the cringey situation, right? It happens all
• 1:02:15
  the time in the studio. But what I do love about
• 1:02:18
  it, it's not just that defense of popular culture,
• 1:02:22
  which you and I love. So we have the defense
• 1:02:26
  of popular culture, but we have the defense of
• 1:02:29
  popular culture that is juxtaposed with a defense
• 1:02:33
  of... unpopular culture that that you do One
• 1:02:38
  of the things the studio that continental in
• 1:02:40
  the show prides itself on that Seth Rogen's character
• 1:02:43
  does pride himself on right? We see this at the
• 1:02:45
  very end of the season They have a slate where
• 1:02:48
  it is the Sarah Polly art film right the big
• 1:02:51
  MK ultra 13 or whatever the Kool -Aid movie that's
• 1:02:54
  coming out right and so I loved that idea that
• 1:02:57
  unlike the player which is so bitter so cynical
• 1:03:00
  that you do have this almost kind of warm sense
• 1:03:04
  that I feel like filmmaking in the studio, it
• 1:03:08
  hits the spot that I personally like the best.
• 1:03:12
  Okay. Exactly. You know, again, the Matt Damon.
• 1:03:15
  One for you, one for them. And so I like that
• 1:03:18
  affirmation. Film has a history. Yes. Popular
• 1:03:21
  culture, popular film is worthwhile. Again, a
• 1:03:24
  la Sullivan's Travels and the Clooney film. But
• 1:03:26
  that also there's a room for something more quirky.
• 1:03:30
  And so, yeah, I really I like that component
• 1:03:33
  of it a lot. Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's trying
• 1:03:36
  to find its legs and I think that there are some
• 1:03:40
  episodes that definitely are more successful
• 1:03:43
  than others as I've said before and some of It
• 1:03:47
  was just annoying for me because Seth Rogen just,
• 1:03:52
  again, felt like Larry David. Yeah, he really
• 1:03:55
  does. He really does. And it's like, if Larry
• 1:03:56
  David ran a studio, as much as I love Larry David,
• 1:04:00
  as much as I love Curb, and as much as like,
• 1:04:02
  yeah, there's this like, again, even the episode
• 1:04:05
  with the pediatric oncologist, it felt like a
• 1:04:07
  Larry David episode. Yes, it absolutely did.
• 1:04:09
  I mean, you could imagine. It was Palestinian
• 1:04:10
  chicken. Yeah, and you could imagine Larry David
• 1:04:13
  on a date. Yeah, completely. Psychology? Oh,
• 1:04:17
  what's that like? You know, you could completely
• 1:04:19
  see Larry David on that date. And just being
• 1:04:25
  himself. And again, the clothes, like when walking
• 1:04:27
  into the scene, right, the car is parked and
• 1:04:30
  yeah. Yeah, all of it. Gradually you can't exit
• 1:04:33
  because yeah, all of that. Right, right. And
• 1:04:35
  he keeps walking in. I mean, well, he keeps walking
• 1:04:38
  in and there's a distraction on the microphone
• 1:04:40
  and there's a... Yeah, that was straight up curb.
• 1:04:43
  Yeah. Yeah. So there are some parts of it, again,
• 1:04:46
  that also felt really derivative and not necessarily
• 1:04:48
  in a bad way, because these are references that
• 1:04:50
  I really like. I don't know. I don't know if
• 1:04:51
  they were intentional or not, but it did have,
• 1:04:54
  it did have that vibe. And so. But also so different
• 1:05:02
  than the player, of course, which does not have
• 1:05:05
  that vibe. Does not have that Yiddish -Kite vibe.
• 1:05:10
  And of course, we have the David Cromwell's character
• 1:05:12
  who constantly is making like the the puns about
• 1:05:15
  them being Jewish and sort of over the top the
• 1:05:18
  Zadie Kravitz agent that we see sort of in a
• 1:05:21
  couple of episodes. And yes, where it's very
• 1:05:24
  much where Seth Rogen's character is like, I've
• 1:05:26
  had enough of this. Yes. So it is, I do like,
• 1:05:28
  Like, again, we have something that is affirming
• 1:05:30
  and not cynical. And it is interesting when we
• 1:05:34
  think, and obviously there's so many more movies
• 1:05:36
  and TV shows having to do with Hollywood and
• 1:05:38
  filmmaking that we can talk about. Many, many,
• 1:05:39
  many. But that we do have, again, this sense
• 1:05:43
  of, again, not just juxtaposition of sort of
• 1:05:45
  popular culture and not popular culture, but
• 1:05:47
  also this sense of... sort of who your friends
• 1:05:50
  are. And you mentioned before about the Sal Saperstein
• 1:05:53
  character. And obviously, we talked about how
• 1:05:54
  this comes up with the Clooney. When you are
• 1:05:56
  in this particular world of filmmaking, pop culture,
• 1:06:00
  media, and you have an entourage, what is that
• 1:06:04
  relationship between sort of celebrity and friendship?
• 1:06:06
  What's an interesting comparison. And so the
• 1:06:08
  Sal Saperstein who slept on Adam Scott, Adam
• 1:06:11
  Scott. Oh, yes. to Clooney and Billy Crudup.
• 1:06:16
  Yes, exactly. And to think about how those two
• 1:06:19
  just went sideways in terms of the possibilities
• 1:06:23
  of relationships. It's not that Saperstein and
• 1:06:25
  Adam Scott became besties and talked all the
• 1:06:28
  time. But obviously, their relationship was a
• 1:06:31
  warm one. And Scott is grateful to him. And,
• 1:06:34
  of course, famously, thanks him in his speech.
• 1:06:36
  And then everyone else does, too. Whereas the
• 1:06:39
  Clooney -Crudup relationship is in a fistfight.
• 1:06:43
  and many, many years later. But even at the time
• 1:06:47
  did not end amicably. And it's interesting to
• 1:06:51
  think of these people along the way who help
• 1:06:53
  you and are your besties when you start out in
• 1:06:57
  the industry. And I'm thinking of that Charlie
• 1:07:00
  Sheen documentary. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because
• 1:07:02
  he talks about all these people that came through
• 1:07:05
  and people that he was roommates with at different
• 1:07:07
  times and this one and that one and including
• 1:07:11
  was in there. Some of the time, right? But you
• 1:07:14
  think about all these different moments before
• 1:07:16
  people hit it big when they are just kind of
• 1:07:19
  itinerant and insecure and they're just willing
• 1:07:23
  to do whatever and then later reflect on that
• 1:07:26
  and that Clooney has such a different recollection
• 1:07:30
  of it than an Adam Scott does. That's a really
• 1:07:33
  good point and that reminds me that just last
• 1:07:35
  week I read the very short memoirs by Andrew
• 1:07:39
  McCarthy called Brat and I kind of wish I hadn't
• 1:07:43
  read it. Did you see the documentary? Yes, I
• 1:07:46
  did see the documentary. But it's exactly this
• 1:07:48
  where you have a really young actor who is, you
• 1:07:51
  know, spending his time sort of paying his dues.
• 1:07:54
  He's studying in New York. He's going to acting
• 1:07:56
  classes. You know, obviously he's meeting a young
• 1:07:58
  actor like Rob Lowe, and he makes the contrast
• 1:08:01
  between when they're making Class and Rob Lowe
• 1:08:03
  is already so professional. He knows what he
• 1:08:05
  wants. He's going to be a superstar. He's obviously
• 1:08:07
  incredibly handsome. And there's this strain
• 1:08:09
  consistently in the Andrew McCarthy memoirs,
• 1:08:12
  very short and very depressing. where he, in
• 1:08:15
  effect, you can see him. He is always going to
• 1:08:19
  be that Billy Crudup character in the Clooney
• 1:08:21
  film. He's always going to be someone who's very,
• 1:08:24
  very talented at acting, but doesn't have this
• 1:08:28
  kind of killer instinct, he is awkward in situations,
• 1:08:32
  he keeps going to auditions, and you're kind
• 1:08:34
  of like, How did you end up in Pretty in Pink
• 1:08:35
  and everything else? And so that's, it's exactly
• 1:08:38
  that dynamic, sort of all of these directions
• 1:08:40
  that young actors can go and all of the other
• 1:08:42
  skills that you need in terms of becoming a Hollywood
• 1:08:45
  celebrity and a superstar, right? So yeah, Andrew
• 1:08:48
  McCarthy, again, one more time, totally the Bill
• 1:08:51
  - Billy Crudup character, it would not surprise
• 1:08:53
  me if Andrew McCarthy had become a child therapist.
• 1:08:55
  And then had a fist fight with Rob Lowe 30 years
• 1:08:57
  later. I guess one of the things that threw me
• 1:09:00
  off about the Billy Crudup character, having
• 1:09:03
  just finished The Morning Show, which is, of
• 1:09:05
  course, that it's the opposite on that show.
• 1:09:09
  He's more than the Seth Rogen. Well, I guess
• 1:09:12
  he's the Seth Rogen or equivalent. He's the Griffin
• 1:09:14
  Mill. Yeah, he's the Griffin Mill. He is venal.
• 1:09:18
  He is completely... without any kind of ethical
• 1:09:22
  compass. He's ruthless. He's ruthless. He's really
• 1:09:25
  slick. And it's interesting to see him playing
• 1:09:29
  a kind of lovable loser in the Clooney movie.
• 1:09:35
  And he was really great. And he was great. When
• 1:09:38
  he does the scene where he has to sort of cry
• 1:09:39
  on cue, that's fantastic. No, he's really great.
• 1:09:42
  But it's so crazy to see those two sort of industry
• 1:09:47
  pieces next to each other. Because the failure
• 1:09:50
  and the superstar. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
• 1:09:53
  I mean, and again, morning show, we haven't talked
• 1:09:55
  about that, but there's so many, there's so many
• 1:09:59
  texts out there now and always have been about
• 1:10:02
  the industry. And of course, the industry loves
• 1:10:05
  the industry. And we can think about all the
• 1:10:08
  awards and all the films and all the television
• 1:10:11
  shows that have gotten a lot of praise for celebrating
• 1:10:14
  the industry or critiquing the industry or you
• 1:10:18
  know, old film stars or, you know, that sort
• 1:10:21
  of thing, so. Well, I was excited to see. There
• 1:10:25
  were two restaurants in that season of The Studio
• 1:10:30
  that I have gone to. Oh, do tell. The Smoke House,
• 1:10:34
  which they go to at the very beginning when they
• 1:10:36
  first meet the David Krumholtz character. And
• 1:10:38
  then Musso and Frank, which I went to just
• 1:10:40
  this past summer, which is where Sal takes his
• 1:10:41
  two daughters, and they were crying. Right, oh,
• 1:10:43
  that's right. So I was like, oh! Oh, that was
• 1:10:45
  really exciting. The scene at Musso and Frank
• 1:10:47
  also, again, like that annoyed me. Uh -huh. Okay?
• 1:10:51
  I mean, not because I don't know kids like that,
• 1:10:54
  okay? Not because, right, the kids. Yes. But
• 1:10:57
  again, I wish that it gave me some insight into
• 1:11:02
  the Sal Saperstein character and it just... It
• 1:11:05
  did not. He just sat there and he just ate his
• 1:11:08
  food and his daughters acted like whatever, Get
• 1:11:11
  X or Gen Z people. But it was a Clooney -esque
• 1:11:14
  moment though. It was a Clooney -esque moment.
• 1:11:17
  He's totally disassociated from his daughters.
• 1:11:20
  But he made an effort. But he makes an effort.
• 1:11:23
  He did say, you can go, I'm going to take my
• 1:11:25
  daughters to lunch. They can get whatever they
• 1:11:27
  want. I'm going to ask them what's going on.
• 1:11:29
  Yes, we spend time together and connect. And
• 1:11:31
  then, and of course there, the sense is also
• 1:11:33
  they're just teenagers. Sure. They're spoiled
• 1:11:35
  teenagers. It's not that there's been years of
• 1:11:37
  neglect or something they're responding to. No,
• 1:11:39
  no. Oh, and of course we just have to say that
• 1:11:40
  that was Riley Keough. Right, that was Riley
• 1:11:43
  Keough. As the oldest daughter, and I think she's
• 1:11:45
  great. Although one thing, which may be my last
• 1:11:48
  point about the studio, which we haven't talked
• 1:11:50
  about, is the fact that Seth Rogen is alone and
• 1:11:53
  that he tells his mother several times he cannot
• 1:11:57
  have a real relationship when he is a studio
• 1:12:00
  head and he's married to the studio. And even
• 1:12:02
  though we see him dating the pediatric oncologist
• 1:12:05
  and he has some, you know, one night flings with...
• 1:12:08
  whoever makes out with Katherine Hahn. But
• 1:12:11
  he's never going to pursue a real lasting relationship.
• 1:12:16
  He doesn't have any children. And so we get the
• 1:12:18
  same vibe that we do from the Clooney film. Yeah,
• 1:12:21
  absolutely. But not the regret. But not the regret.
• 1:12:24
  This is the reality. This is my commitment to
• 1:12:27
  the art that no one will acknowledge or thank
• 1:12:29
  me for. And no baby on the way that we see at
• 1:12:33
  the end of the player. that is true excellent
• 1:12:36
  point maybe that'll be the second season of the
• 1:12:38
  studio perhaps maybe maybe we'll see that but
• 1:12:42
  again i still think the tim robbins cameo is
• 1:12:44
  a must oh i mean i i just and look what is dumbfounding
• 1:12:49
  and what is he doing what is tim robbins doing
• 1:12:51
  maybe he's just retired maybe we didn't I mean,
• 1:12:57
  just throw him a bone. It'd be fantastic if he...
• 1:12:59
  I really do think Sal Saperstein is being styled
• 1:13:02
  on purpose like Griffin Mill. I believe that.
• 1:13:05
  That again, his clothes look a little bit more
• 1:13:08
  sort of like... I know what you're saying. The
• 1:13:11
  bigger suit and the hair. The shoulder pads.
• 1:13:13
  Yes, I think he is supposed to physically remind
• 1:13:15
  us of Griffin Mill in the player. I don't know
• 1:13:19
  what Tim Robbins is up to, but it really feels
• 1:13:22
  like he needs to just walk across the studio
• 1:13:25
  lot. I would love that. Or Peter Gallagher! Okay,
• 1:13:31
  we know Peter Gallagher is still active. Yes.
• 1:13:34
  And still looking fantastic. And still looking
• 1:13:36
  fantastic. I would absolutely love to see Larry
• 1:13:38
  Levine. And we know that Jeremy Piven is still.
• 1:13:41
  At this point, we can kind of go through the
• 1:13:45
  whole cast of the player and think about where
• 1:13:49
  some of those actors could come in. I think they'll
• 1:13:52
  be awesome. fairly substantial role. Yes, she
• 1:13:57
  does. I mean, it's almost alarming. You know,
• 1:14:00
  I had never actually heard her speak before watching
• 1:14:02
  the studio because I don't think I've ever seen
• 1:14:04
  a movie that she's in. She's in Big Little Lies.
• 1:14:07
  See, I watched like one episode of that. Oh.
• 1:14:09
  And I just don't even remember. Oh. I never finished
• 1:14:11
  it. Okay. Yeah, she has a - And of course, she's
• 1:14:13
  so exquisitely beautiful. She is. It's just -
• 1:14:14
  I mean, how could she not be? I was looking at
• 1:14:15
  her. Fine. Well, how could she not be? Well,
• 1:14:17
  exactly. Exactly. I mean, with those parents,
• 1:14:20
  right? But yes. You know, Lenny Kravitz is, of
• 1:14:22
  course, single, as he's been single for like
• 1:14:24
  10 years. And you know who else is single? Who?
• 1:14:27
  Nicole. Ooh. They get back together again. Wouldn't
• 1:14:30
  that be fantastic if they got back together?
• 1:14:32
  Lenny Kravitz and Nicole. I would absolutely
• 1:14:34
  love that. That would be amazing. Yeah. Again,
• 1:14:40
  the persistence of Zoe Kravitz in the studio
• 1:14:44
  is interesting. It is interesting. Because she's
• 1:14:47
  in two full episodes as herself. And yeah, she
• 1:14:52
  has like a real character or whatever. She's
• 1:14:56
  herself. And I like that, though, because it
• 1:14:58
  was very much Right? Him as studio head saying,
• 1:15:01
  this is this sort of, you know, gorgeous, talented,
• 1:15:03
  young filmmaker, right? That I want to promote
• 1:15:06
  because I want to feel like I'm plugged in and
• 1:15:08
  I'm hip. And he's very concerned about this.
• 1:15:10
  Yes. He wants to be cool. He wants to. So that
• 1:15:13
  actually made a lot of sense. It did. No, it
• 1:15:15
  did. It did. I just, again, just not to say it
• 1:15:18
  again, but I'm like, oh, she's back. She's back.
• 1:15:21
  Zoe. Yes. She's back. Yes, she is. And an old
• 1:15:24
  school Hollywood. What was old school Hollywood?
• 1:15:27
  Buffet? Where's the mountain of cocaine? Okay,
• 1:15:34
  well, do you have a book recommendation for this
• 1:15:37
  episode? You can think about it and then let
• 1:15:39
  me know. Okay. I will. How about you? You know,
• 1:15:42
  I probably will recommend one of the books about
• 1:15:44
  Hollywood by Peter Biskind, but there's a couple
• 1:15:47
  in the play that I need to think about. I probably
• 1:15:51
  will suggest his book about 1970s cinema, but
• 1:15:55
  I need to think about that. So I will just post
• 1:15:57
  it. Okay. Let's post it on the site. Again, these
• 1:16:01
  were a lot of texts and also a lot of, I would
• 1:16:04
  say, last -minute text because I mean this is
• 1:16:07
  some real research we are doing is the Baumbach
• 1:16:10
  film didn't come out to last night and we both
• 1:16:16
  faithfully watched it and Again, I was pleased
• 1:16:20
  that I enjoyed it Bomb and stayed up watching.
• 1:16:26
  Uh -huh. So I again really really did enjoy it
• 1:16:31
  and George Clooney look also he it just is so
• 1:16:34
  classically handsome Yes, he is. He's a Cary
• 1:16:37
  Grant. He is he's Cary Grant He's so throwback
• 1:16:40
  and you know one wonders why wasn't he in L .A.
• 1:16:43
  Confidential? Oh my god. Right? He should have
• 1:16:47
  been the Russell Crowe character. Oh, but I do
• 1:16:49
  like Russell Crowe a lot. No, I do. But come
• 1:16:51
  on. I mean, he looks like he should be in that
• 1:16:55
  movie. I agree. I agree. And it's yeah. But he
• 1:16:59
  was still an ER doctor when that came out. I
• 1:17:01
  know. I know. And as I tried to explain to Jim
• 1:17:04
  earlier, and again, we had a sort of pre -pod
• 1:17:06
  before the pregame, before the pod. is that because
• 1:17:10
  George Clooney is the same age as many of, as
• 1:17:15
  Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise and all those guys,
• 1:17:17
  he just didn't reach fame at the same time. So
• 1:17:21
  he was competing with people who were much, much
• 1:17:24
  more famous than him, which is probably why he
• 1:17:27
  didn't get into those roles. The other interesting
• 1:17:30
  question which we asked, not to drag this on,
• 1:17:32
  but why he didn't do another Tarantino film.
• 1:17:37
  Why wasn't he in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?
• 1:17:40
  Good question. Because he would have been interesting
• 1:17:43
  for that. Yes, I agree with that too. Interesting
• 1:17:46
  question. I don't know. Something to think about.
• 1:17:49
  I know. To me, there's a lot of questions about
• 1:17:52
  Clooney because you think of roles and you're
• 1:17:54
  like, wow, Clooney would have been great in that.
• 1:17:58
  Oh, interesting. Why wasn't he in that? And why
• 1:18:02
  is it so hard to think of a Clooney movie other
• 1:18:05
  than, say, we're, you know, the Coen brothers
• 1:18:09
  or... But again, person on the street and you
• 1:18:12
  say, what was George Clooney in? They're going
• 1:18:14
  to say ER. No, they're going to say Ocean's Eleven.
• 1:18:17
  Yes. Yes. They're going to say Ocean's Eleven.
• 1:18:18
  One or the other. They're going to say, if you
• 1:18:20
  say movie, they're going to say the Ocean's movie.
• 1:18:22
  And then... But it also depends upon age. Right.
• 1:18:24
  Because nobody, no one younger than we are is
• 1:18:27
  going to say ER. True. But if I said to my students,
• 1:18:31
  what has George Clooney been in? They may not
• 1:18:34
  even know the answer to that. They may just say
• 1:18:36
  he's this guy out there who's like a Democratic
• 1:18:39
  Party fundraiser. Yeah. And basically, yeah.
• 1:18:41
  Obama's friend and thought that Biden should
• 1:18:43
  not stay in the election. Right. Yeah. OK. I'm
• 1:18:48
  going to be thinking about the retro fantasy
• 1:18:52
  of him starring in LA Confidential. It's a lot
• 1:18:55
  to think about. And we may need to do, just for
• 1:18:59
  our listeners, part two of this segment because
• 1:19:03
  there are so many terrific industry films. We
• 1:19:08
  didn't even talk about Sunset Boulevard. No,
• 1:19:10
  and we haven't even gotten to the musicals. We
• 1:19:12
  haven't gotten to the musicals. All the stage
• 1:19:17
  moms, all the theater behind the scenes of theater.
• 1:19:21
  chorus line. We could do a whole pod on chorus
• 1:19:25
  line. But right now, Lauren, you have a party
• 1:19:27
  to go to. This is true. Where I will be one singular
• 1:19:31
  sensation. Every little step she takes. So we
• 1:19:36
  hope you all have a great whatever you're doing.
• 1:19:41
  And until next time. Until next time. Harpies
• 1:19:44
  out.