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With Great Power #334... Andrew Coltrin & ZuZu · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to 22 Panels. I think this is one of the fastest returning guests I've ever had, and he brought… he brought his own guest, so we can talk about nerd emergencies again.
• 0:14
  Tad Eggleston: Because it's awesome. I can say that now, I read it, it's awesome. I don't just suspect that it will be awesome, it IS awesome. I really should have called Daria to join us, too, because she's in Chicago and a friend of mine. I liked her cartoon.
• 0:28
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 0:28
  Tad Eggleston: Daria's fantastic. She's gonna take over the world. She just got into law school.
• 0:34
  Tad Eggleston: Well, she just had a full ride to law school. She'd gotten into multiple law schools and had to decide which one was offering her the best financial package.
• 0:42
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 0:43
  Tad Eggleston: That's the type of coolness that Daria is.
• 0:47
  andrewcoltrin: Right, and yeah, we got a little, little, little, excerpt from Daria, and…
• 0:52
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 0:52
  andrewcoltrin: I'm like, yeah.
• 0:54
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, but, but I… we can't fall completely off the rails again, Andrew. I have to finish introducing people.
• 1:00
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, sorry.
• 1:01
  Tad Eggleston: Zuzu hasn't been introduced at all. People might recognize your voice from the last time.
• 1:08
  Tad Eggleston: But this is Zuzu's first time. So we have Zuzu and Andrew Coltrane, the masterminds behind neared emergencies, which just got stuck in my mouth, because I'm not an AI, so I wanted to say neurodiversity.
• 1:26
  andrewcoltrin: It's the… yeah, it's tricky. I mean, I think maybe that's part of the joke, is that it's sort of hard to say neurodiversity, it's…
• 1:34
  andrewcoltrin: It's hard to…
• 1:35
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, I finished reading it today, and I'll say that not only is it amazing, it's one of those
• 1:47
  Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna say important, but also hard for neurodivergent people to read book, because…
• 1:55
  Tad Eggleston: Because as much as we love it, I, like, have to set it down and let it…
• 1:58
  Tad Eggleston: Let it sit.
• 2:00
  Tad Eggleston: almost every part, because it's like, oh, I'm being seen too well.
• 2:05
  andrewcoltrin: Eat! Okay.
• 2:08
  ZuZu: of stories that made me cry the first time I read through everything.
• 2:11
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 2:12
  ZuZu: Yep. Right.
• 2:13
  Tad Eggleston: Right, it's like, I'm being seen too well.
• 2:16
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, oh.
• 2:16
  Tad Eggleston: This is a way that I thought I was unique even among neurodiverse people, and I'm so happy that I'm not, but it also so sucks that we still don't have anybody believe us that that's what's going on.
• 2:28
  andrewcoltrin: So I guess, what's the point of the book? To make people cry? No.
• 2:34
  Tad Eggleston: I will not feel it.
• 2:35
  Tad Eggleston: I now have an artifact to be able to hand to people and say, this is what I'm feeling, dammit!
• 2:40
  andrewcoltrin: That is exactly why I do this! This is why I started making zines, to be… make an artifact, to show it to people! I didn't know I was autistic yet, but I couldn't… and then I'd make this weird crap, and I'd be like, here, this is… and then all of a sudden, I'd have something to talk to me about.
• 2:54
  Tad Eggleston: Yes. This is what I'm talking about.
• 2:56
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, and so, but yeah, like, this is just, like, the… the… yeah.
• 3:01
  andrewcoltrin: Just totally refining that over and over again, and me going like, there's more people out there, I gotta find them.
• 3:07
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 3:08
  ZuZu: I think it was when I read your… We do need to become a voting.
• 3:11
  Tad Eggleston: lock, I think.
• 3:12
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 3:14
  ZuZu: Yeah, that's true.
• 3:16
  ZuZu: your intro, Andrew, and when you talk about, like, being able to think in words and pictures, and, like, that being how your brain works, like, I hadn't really put two and two together, but that was why I've been making comics since I was seven. And I looked over at my wife, I was like, oh…
• 3:32
  ZuZu: Do you think this is anything? She was like, yeah, babe, probably. Like, did you not figure that out yet?
• 3:40
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it's like I told… I told… I told Andrew the last time.
• 3:44
  Tad Eggleston: I think I told Andrew the last time that my wife and I's communication was infinitely improved when we realized that I think in words. And by think in words, I mean think in words. She's like, you, like, just see them in your head? And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 3:58
  Tad Eggleston: I don't have pictures in my head. Seeing words in my head would still be thinking in images. I… the best way to describe it is, like, they echo around in my head. It's like I hear them in my head. I think in words. And she thinks in swirls of color that sometimes become pictures.
• 4:17
  Tad Eggleston: So that's where we're starting from.
• 4:19
  andrewcoltrin: I know, and.
• 4:20
  Tad Eggleston: trying to figure things out. And the weird thing is.
• 4:23
  ZuZu: I've got…
• 4:24
  andrewcoltrin: I've got part of my brain that does the swirls and color and turn into pictures, and then part that does the words. And, like, I have to wait for them to figure out between themselves.
• 4:33
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, that's fucked up, but awesome.
• 4:36
  andrewcoltrin: Fucked up. Yeah, it takes me a long damn time, but, I mean.
• 4:39
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, particularly if you actually have, like, color AND words?
• 4:45
  andrewcoltrin: I mean, I don't know if I have color and… it's mostly black and white, honestly, but…
• 4:49
  Tad Eggleston: Well, that's not swirls of color that become pictures.
• 4:52
  andrewcoltrin: I don't know, it depends. It's all… well, what I'm saying is, like, it's like, you know, I'll feel like this, like, the flow of information's going around, and I'm like, I can't…
• 5:02
  andrewcoltrin: I can't tell somebody what it is yet until…
• 5:05
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, I can make a sculpture about it, you know, like, that kind of thing.
• 5:08
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 5:09
  andrewcoltrin: It's just like… And then some… that process helps me find the words.
• 5:14
  andrewcoltrin: And.
• 5:15
  ZuZu: Yeah, I've been doing parts work, so it's like, I have 3 different parts within myself, and they are all talking at once, and it has to, like, make its way into a little sieve, so that I can communicate anything to anyone out of the mouthpole.
• 5:27
  andrewcoltrin: The mouth hole, yeah. Yeah, that's…
• 5:29
  ZuZu: People…
• 5:30
  andrewcoltrin: I still prefer the communication out the mouth hole, but…
• 5:35
  ZuZu: That doesn't work.
• 5:37
  Tad Eggleston: They want the mouth hole?
• 5:39
  Tad Eggleston: To line up with the intonation of the mouth hole, and the way your face…
• 5:45
  ZuZu: That whole bit.
• 5:47
  andrewcoltrin: The way the face looks, oh my gosh, I… Yeah…
• 5:51
  Tad Eggleston: Why didn't…
• 5:55
  Tad Eggleston: I, I really, really, really appreciated reframing Autism Services.
• 6:00
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 6:02
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 6:03
  andrewcoltrin: Cool, I'm… I need to tell Sky… yeah, like, all these…
• 6:08
  andrewcoltrin: all these cool people that I met through this, and, like, I need to, like…
• 6:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well, again, we, you know, my friend Britt is also listening, along with Dr. Ramos.
• 6:20
  Tad Eggleston: Cause there… there is more and more people trying to put together a… us…
• 6:27
  Tad Eggleston: Neurodivergent weirdos in comics.
• 6:31
  Tad Eggleston: To do stuff.
• 6:33
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. You know, Britt has the autism scene, which I keep telling him needs to expand beyond… Just…
• 6:40
  Tad Eggleston: Screenwriting into, like, comic.
• 6:43
  andrewcoltrin: Thank you.
• 6:44
  Tad Eggleston: too.
• 6:44
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 6:45
  Tad Eggleston: No other reason than that, that…
• 6:48
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, totally. Yeah, no, I looked at…
• 6:49
  Tad Eggleston: He's thinking about reaching the more neurodifficult people, and I'm sitting there going, you know, start by reaching more neuro… neurodivergent people, and then you'll have more people paying attention to.
• 7:02
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 7:03
  Tad Eggleston: Scripts for the… the neurotypical people.
• 7:06
  andrewcoltrin: The neurodepigraphy people.
• 7:07
  ZuZu: Yes.
• 7:10
  andrewcoltrin: Oh…
• 7:12
  Tad Eggleston: I think… I think… I think Britt is actually neurodivergent. His son's definitely…
• 7:20
  Tad Eggleston: autistic, and that's… that's why he's so passionate about it. But he also learned to… learned so well…
• 7:27
  Tad Eggleston: to be… neurodifficult, or play with the neurodifficult.
• 7:32
  andrewcoltrin: Goalkeeper.
• 7:32
  Tad Eggleston: I should say, that, like, he speaks their language really, really well.
• 7:38
  Tad Eggleston: So I don't like to discount anything he says either, cause…
• 7:41
  andrewcoltrin: like…
• 7:42
  Tad Eggleston: I'm like, but it should be like this, and he's.
• 7:45
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Tad Eggleston: But it IS like this.
• 7:49
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I… oh, what is and what should be? Hi, Britt! Oh. Oh my gosh, that's the… that's… oh… well, you know, I worked in schools for a long time, so yeah, that whole…
• 8:02
  ZuZu: Facing that contradiction.
• 8:05
  Tad Eggleston: I think I loved all of Amy Noseworthy's shorts, too.
• 8:09
  ZuZu: And he did incredible work.
• 8:12
  andrewcoltrin: She's in, toronto, maybe she'll go to New York.
• 8:18
  Tad Eggleston: It's a little bit closer.
• 8:19
  andrewcoltrin: A little bit closer.
• 8:20
  Tad Eggleston: But also, if you were in Canada, would you leave?
• 8:24
  andrewcoltrin: No.
• 8:24
  andrewcoltrin: No.
• 8:28
  andrewcoltrin: Oh my gosh, there's a couple, like, parents in my daughter's school who, like, you know, they're… they're from Canada.
• 8:36
  andrewcoltrin: And they're like, we really like being part of this community, and…
• 8:41
  andrewcoltrin: like, we don't know if we're gonna get deported. Or, you know, like, there's a thing, the H-1B visa crap, and then they're like, oh, you need a green card, oh, you need to leave the country to apply for a green card. It's like, what's going on? And it's like…
• 8:55
  andrewcoltrin: And they're like…
• 8:56
  ZuZu: The work Amy did is incredible. I did just go to their profile page, so quick correction, that is they, them on Amy.
• 9:04
  andrewcoltrin: Say them, you know, sorry. I knew that, and I mess it up all the time, because, I don't know.
• 9:10
  ZuZu: Oh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, they do really incredible work. They have a couple… did they just have the one piece, and then they did the cover, Andrew?
• 9:17
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, no, I threw… remember, like, there was a few…
• 9:21
  ZuZu: Oh, we had extras!
• 9:22
  andrewcoltrin: the one.
• 9:22
  ZuZu: pages.
• 9:23
  andrewcoltrin: Ones that were, like, originally, like.
• 9:26
  andrewcoltrin: you know, Instagram Little Comics, and I was like, that one's fine. I think I put, like, 3 of those in.
• 9:33
  ZuZu: Yeah, I was like…
• 9:33
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like there was death.
• 9:34
  ZuZu: We're looking at.
• 9:35
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely more than one.
• 9:36
  andrewcoltrin: There was more than one, yeah, and they were all just… Yeah.
• 9:42
  andrewcoltrin: Just different little slices of.
• 9:46
  ZuZu: They did… yeah, they did a really good job in a lot of their submissions about sort of approaching things from a very personal angle. That was another one.
• 9:53
  andrewcoltrin: when they're.
• 9:54
  ZuZu: one or two lines in the bigger black and white.
• 9:56
  andrewcoltrin: Common.
• 9:57
  ZuZu: that I was like.
• 9:58
  ZuZu: Oh, I didn't know I was the only… that I wasn't the only person that, like, thought this way, or like, oh, this is this experience as well. But they start so small, and, like, such a little, like, portrait, and then it kind of does the big zoom out into, like, the rest of, like, the way neurodivergence has affected their life. Yeah, she was… it was just absolutely incredible. I did cry.
• 10:19
  andrewcoltrin: Ugh.
• 10:20
  ZuZu: the… the plate.
• 10:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean.
• 10:22
  ZuZu: As well.
• 10:24
  Tad Eggleston: Go ahead, finish. I'm bad at interrupting, and I shouldn't do that, and so, like, always finish.
• 10:28
  ZuZu: Okay. I am also, in normal conversation, I am also an interrupter, but.
• 10:35
  Tad Eggleston: working on.
• 10:36
  ZuZu: I'm in… I'm in meeting mode right now, but all of the, all the ones about having the epileptic plate in their head, it's a… I know… I know the one is, at what point do I tell airport security I'm a cyborg? And I'm looking at the PDF right now on my other screen, and I don't see the name, unfortunately.
• 10:54
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, oh, Melissa… Oh, is it Melissa? Yeah, I… I either…
• 11:01
  ZuZu: Beth, that was…
• 11:02
  andrewcoltrin: I feel like maybe I need to send you the more recent version. I keep thinking I send you things, and then…
• 11:08
  ZuZu: My head's also in my box, like, to do my recording with my microphone, so I just… I literally have, like, one part of my monitor over here.
• 11:15
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, I see, yeah, that too, so…
• 11:17
  ZuZu: Yeah, that's.
• 11:18
  andrewcoltrin: Alright.
• 11:18
  ZuZu: that's on me. But, but specifically, like, all of those pieces were really good, but specifically the one about airport security was very interesting, because I have a, like, almost verbatim exact same experience waiting for TSA to come deal with my pat-down for my diabetic supplies, and just thinking about, like, oh, I guess this does have, like, this is a physical ailment, but this does have repercussions in how I deal with the rest of the world. Like, I got diagnosed with CPTSD
• 11:43
  ZuZu: super late.
• 11:44
  ZuZu: Yeah, so there's all sorts of really cool
• 11:47
  ZuZu: things in those pieces that I, like, had feelings about.
• 11:51
  Tad Eggleston: Melissa Minnick is the cyborg etiquette.
• 11:54
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 11:54
  ZuZu: There we go, thank you.
• 11:56
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 11:58
  andrewcoltrin: I know. Yeah, it was like that kind of thing where I was like, I need… I need someone with epilepsy to have something, and like, I didn't get comics, but…
• 12:05
  andrewcoltrin: another contributor, referred Melissa, and was like, hey, would you be interested in this kind of thing? And I was like…
• 12:11
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
• 12:13
  andrewcoltrin: We can do some text pieces. We can break it up.
• 12:16
  andrewcoltrin: And, especially, like, just getting that… that whole perspective. I was like, yeah…
• 12:23
  andrewcoltrin: And of course, you know I'm a sucker for robot stuff, so…
• 12:26
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow.
• 12:27
  ZuZu: We have so many robot pieces in this anthology.
• 12:30
  andrewcoltrin: No, I'm like, oh, it's not just me. Okay.
• 12:35
  ZuZu: Yeah, did we ever tally up exactly how many? Because there's yours, Flimsy Robot, at what point do I tell X I'm a cyborg, and then there's one other that I'm forgetting about.
• 12:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 12:49
  andrewcoltrin: You know the…
• 12:50
  Tad Eggleston: There was the robot school.
• 12:53
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 12:53
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, the flimsy robot one was that one. Yeah, there was another one. What was… oh, well.
• 13:00
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 13:01
  ZuZu: scrolling.
• 13:02
  andrewcoltrin: I'm like…
• 13:03
  ZuZu: Scrolling through my PDF here.
• 13:05
  andrewcoltrin: Oh my gosh, yeah, I know.
• 13:07
  ZuZu: You have your… you have your write-up on, Dalrymples. Oh, yeah!
• 13:11
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 13:12
  andrewcoltrin: Robot time, yeah.
• 13:13
  ZuZu: Yeah, we really need to have, like, a robot drinking game with this anthology.
• 13:17
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I mean, like… Come on, guys, yeah.
• 13:21
  andrewcoltrin: We got all the robots. Oh, and then also, you know, the Pickle Wars from TJ, like…
• 13:27
  andrewcoltrin: I got that sub… when I got that submission, I was like.
• 13:30
  andrewcoltrin: What is up with this? I have to meet this guy. Yeah, because I was like…
• 13:36
  andrewcoltrin: you know, I just wanted to make sure that…
• 13:39
  andrewcoltrin: we weren't, like, taking advantage of somebody, and I went… I went to… yeah, he's one of the artists from North Pole Studio, and I went down there, and I met him, and I was like, oh, yeah, no, you totally get along with us, you're like… you just did this because this was, like, fun.
• 13:53
  andrewcoltrin: you're like, I'm gonna make a fun comic, and I was like, okay, this is genuinely who you are, and
• 14:00
  andrewcoltrin: Who cares if Disney gets mad at us for putting a Star Wars-based thing? I don't think they will.
• 14:05
  ZuZu: I wanted to, like, pull up that, episode or movie, and, like, just, like, watch side by side, because there are some that are, like, I'm pretty sure the same camera angle.
• 14:14
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, I definitely, like, I'm like, but it's a…
• 14:17
  Tad Eggleston: I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty certain it falls under, under.
• 14:21
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah, it's fair use. It's, it's, it's parody…
• 14:24
  Tad Eggleston: Under the, yeah, the weird owl rules.
• 14:26
  andrewcoltrin: The word… oh yeah, totally. I mean, it's… it is…
• 14:29
  andrewcoltrin: And also, like, historically, Star Wars has been very gracious about fan art.
• 14:36
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 14:36
  andrewcoltrin: And it's like, it is not disparaging the franchise itself, so…
• 14:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, the difference is that it's Disney now, rather than just…
• 14:45
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 14:46
  Tad Eggleston: But who knows if they wrote something into the contracting on that, because it doesn't seem to have changed a lot in terms of that sort of thing.
• 14:53
  andrewcoltrin: Right. Yeah, so, I mean…
• 14:55
  Tad Eggleston: over.
• 14:57
  andrewcoltrin: I was like, this is far enough, this is… I mean…
• 15:01
  Tad Eggleston: I wouldn't worry about it.
• 15:02
  andrewcoltrin: I'm totally not worried about it.
• 15:04
  Tad Eggleston: Also, like, you have to make actual amounts of money before you can be sued.
• 15:09
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah, I mean, there's no… there's no point in suing somebody that… Does it make money?
• 15:17
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 15:18
  ZuZu: Yeah, that is… my understanding is that's a big part of why fan artists get away with it, is because you have to be making enough money for them.
• 15:24
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 15:25
  ZuZu: like, hire a lawyer and make money off of suing you. Although, I guess there's some, like, class action stuff that's going around right now that's a little scary, because they're going after, like, multiple creators at once, but… yeah.
• 15:35
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. I mean, but I do think this… this…
• 15:39
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I'm not worried about getting in trouble. If there's trouble in that, it would just be, good publicity.
• 15:44
  ZuZu: No, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, honestly, bring it on.
• 15:49
  andrewcoltrin: Okay.
• 15:50
  andrewcoltrin: It's not like Air Pirate Funnies, come on.
• 15:53
  Tad Eggleston: Which, in a lot of ways, cost Disney as much as it…
• 15:58
  Tad Eggleston: Like, Air Pirate Funnies was able to continue reprinting and pay all of their legal fees, even though they lost. Disney managed to sell more copies, make it more popular, and they won…
• 16:12
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 16:13
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah…
• 16:14
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think they won court fees.
• 16:17
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I don't think the monetary settlement was that high?
• 16:22
  Tad Eggleston: If I recall correctly, so it was one of those… Pyrrhic victories.
• 16:27
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Tad Eggleston: I think I used that word right. I always hate it when I use the $20 word wrong, and now I have to go look it up.
• 16:36
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, no. Oh, no. That's fine.
• 16:39
  Tad Eggleston: Was it… was it a Pyrrhic victory?
• 16:41
  andrewcoltrin: Was it a Pyrrh victory?
• 16:43
  andrewcoltrin: Perhaps. Oh, sounds like somebody wants to say hi.
• 16:48
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, a victory gained at such a cost to the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.
• 16:53
  andrewcoltrin: There you go.
• 16:54
  Tad Eggleston: So I did use it.
• 16:55
  andrewcoltrin: You nailed it.
• 16:56
  ZuZu: Yeah, word of the day.
• 16:57
  Tad Eggleston: I spelled it wrong while, well.
• 17:01
  andrewcoltrin: Well, yeah, it gets…
• 17:03
  Tad Eggleston: it?
• 17:04
  Tad Eggleston: But… But…
• 17:07
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Tad Eggleston: I did use it right.
• 17:11
  andrewcoltrin: That's all I could really remember is that it's spelled weird. But, yeah.
• 17:16
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, there is not an H. For whatever reason, I had it as H.
• 17:20
  andrewcoltrin: Not an H.
• 17:21
  Tad Eggleston: Y… well, I had the… I had the H in the wrong spot, I think.
• 17:25
  andrewcoltrin: Okay.
• 17:25
  Tad Eggleston: I think I put the H after the P, the two R's.
• 17:29
  andrewcoltrin: Just after the two hours, yeah.
• 17:30
  Tad Eggleston: E-Y-R-R-H-I-C.
• 17:32
  andrewcoltrin: There you go, yup.
• 17:33
  Tad Eggleston: Like, only in a conversation of neurodivergent people would we spend this much time with.
• 17:39
  Tad Eggleston: Yep. Spelling of a word that is used primarily in… in hallowed halls and Scrabble games.
• 17:48
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. Oh, you know what, I have a friend who does a podcast that that is all.
• 17:53
  andrewcoltrin: we talk about is… we go down these rabbit holes, so… I get that.
• 17:57
  Tad Eggleston: I get that.
• 17:58
  andrewcoltrin: You get that, yeah.
• 17:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I was a little jealous with reading, and this is going back to, to Noseworthy, with the…
• 18:06
  Tad Eggleston: MFA defense, and…
• 18:09
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 18:09
  Tad Eggleston: And saying… and I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, then why don't I have a degree at all? Oh, wait.
• 18:14
  ZuZu: That's good.
• 18:15
  Tad Eggleston: That's because neurodivergence doesn't help until you get to your… postgraduate degree.
• 18:20
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. You have to get through the…
• 18:24
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, maybe, like, when you get up to, like, the 400 level classes, then they're like, yeah, you're fine, you're gonna make it, but…
• 18:29
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I always do well in 400 level classes. Oh, yeah.
• 18:32
  andrewcoltrin: The other one.
• 18:33
  Tad Eggleston: classes that I either fail or withdraw from.
• 18:37
  ZuZu: Yo.
• 18:38
  andrewcoltrin: If it weren't for community college.
• 18:39
  ZuZu: My worst grade in college, yep.
• 18:43
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, yeah, you're… it's… it's stupid, yeah, those whole… that whole washout period at the beginning of the undergraduate degrees…
• 18:51
  andrewcoltrin: It needs to be reworked.
• 18:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Tad Eggleston: I'm a smart guy, at least people tell me that. Most of the time, I believe them.
• 19:00
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like, like, every once in a while, I'll have that dream where they just… they go completely old school, and I don't even have to write anything, I can just, like…
• 19:11
  Tad Eggleston: Have that day with the chancellors, where they talk to me.
• 19:16
  andrewcoltrin: to get my…
• 19:17
  Tad Eggleston: doctorate in whatever, and, like, I imagine myself sitting there with a computer where, you know.
• 19:24
  Tad Eggleston: And say, bring it at me!
• 19:27
  andrewcoltrin: Huh.
• 19:27
  Tad Eggleston: We'll research on the spot if we have to.
• 19:29
  andrewcoltrin: The thesis defense without the thesis? No, it's just…
• 19:33
  Tad Eggleston: My thesis is the world will be a better place if we just practice kindness.
• 19:37
  andrewcoltrin: Or the dissertation defense, that's what it is, yeah.
• 19:41
  ZuZu: Dissertation, I think you're actually, like, graded on how well, like, you have to be able to give them incredibly detailed questions, like, on the fly, and I think that's, like, part of it.
• 19:50
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 19:51
  ZuZu: Yeah, it is very… it's hyperfixating challenge mode, is what I know from.
• 19:56
  andrewcoltrin: Anyway, I'm not…
• 19:57
  ZuZu: defenses.
• 19:57
  andrewcoltrin: I'm not going for it.
• 19:59
  andrewcoltrin: I'm fine.
• 20:01
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 20:02
  ZuZu: Yeah, no, I mean, I got through it.
• 20:04
  Tad Eggleston: letters?
• 20:04
  ZuZu: degree, I was like, that's it, it's enough for me.
• 20:06
  Tad Eggleston: See, the letters after my name would be useful in job hunting.
• 20:10
  andrewcoltrin: That's true.
• 20:12
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 20:13
  Tad Eggleston: I wonder what letters I could get away with putting after my name without having to defend them.
• 20:19
  andrewcoltrin: Oh.
• 20:22
  ZuZu: You can do ETC, and it's, like, etc, but it looks official.
• 20:27
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, right. Yeah, do it, yeah, capital E, lowercase t, and a capital C.
• 20:31
  Tad Eggleston: It should be a lowercase e.
• 20:33
  andrewcoltrin: Lowercase e.
• 20:34
  Tad Eggleston: at a capital TC.
• 20:36
  ZuZu: Yeah, there we go. Someone's like, this is some acronym, this is some.
• 20:39
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 20:40
  ZuZu: I don't know about, yeah.
• 20:43
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 20:45
  andrewcoltrin: I know, and then there's, like, well… I don't know if it's…
• 20:49
  Tad Eggleston: I actually… because, you know, I was diagnosed bipolar before I was done with my last round of college, and when I was meeting with.
• 20:56
  andrewcoltrin: the D.
• 20:56
  Tad Eggleston: you know, fighting for my career again. He actually told me, you know, for a long time, I thought that there was something
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: About people who were bipolar and being really smart, as you clearly are, both from your records here and from this conversation, but…
• 21:13
  Tad Eggleston: I've reframed it now, which is that, like.
• 21:18
  Tad Eggleston: You have to be as smart as you are to get this far.
• 21:25
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 21:27
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah… Bipoloid, so, yeah.
• 21:30
  ZuZu: I think I followed that, so is it, like, because.
• 21:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well, what he meant was most people wouldn't have even managed to make it to college
• 21:37
  Tad Eggleston: dealing with the brain that I was dealing with, so, like, having to fight for my academic career
• 21:45
  Tad Eggleston: like, to get far enough to have to fight for my academic career already meant I was really smart, is what… Interesting.
• 21:52
  ZuZu: That's… it feels like he negged you a little bit, because I'm like, I don't.
• 21:56
  Tad Eggleston: No, it wasn't…
• 21:56
  ZuZu: bipolar people that have great careers in, like, academia. Okay, all right.
• 22:02
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 22:02
  ZuZu: But, like, I'm also happy that he recognized.
• 22:04
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, you're like.
• 22:05
  ZuZu: Put in that effort.
• 22:06
  Tad Eggleston: I know… I know he didn't mean it to.
• 22:09
  ZuZu: Yeah, definitely.
• 22:11
  Tad Eggleston: more he was talking, and I got the feeling that he was…
• 22:18
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, this was, like, 15 years ago, so one of us wasn't one of us yet.
• 22:24
  ZuZu: actually get the…
• 22:25
  Tad Eggleston: feeling that he was one of us, because he was already trying to break down why are all of… I mean, because essentially, he was working from
• 22:33
  Tad Eggleston: All of the bipolar people who wind up in my office are really smart.
• 22:40
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 22:42
  andrewcoltrin: But then he's like, well, where is your.
• 22:43
  Tad Eggleston: Because they're bipolar, that they're really smart. But then he started going, oh.
• 22:48
  Tad Eggleston: It actually makes this so hard for them.
• 22:53
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 22:54
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Tad Eggleston: That they had to be really smart to even get this far.
• 22:59
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 23:00
  ZuZu: Interesting, yeah.
• 23:02
  Tad Eggleston: It might not be… it might not be that all bipolar people are really smart.
• 23:07
  Tad Eggleston: as much as… Most bipolar people who do go to college are really smart.
• 23:16
  andrewcoltrin: Really smart, and have… You know, other resources.
• 23:21
  ZuZu: Yeah!
• 23:22
  Tad Eggleston: That would be where you'd go in.
• 23:23
  ZuZu: of it, right? It's like, what does full smart look like?
• 23:26
  andrewcoltrin: smart look like, and what…
• 23:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 23:29
  andrewcoltrin: And what did you self-medicate with before your diagnosis?
• 23:33
  ZuZu: Oh my gosh, oof, that's…
• 23:36
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I mean…
• 23:37
  ZuZu: I have some stories… That's a good question. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:40
  Tad Eggleston: How long did it take them to get the right cocktail? How did your parents view your bipolar-ness?
• 23:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Tad Eggleston: Never mind the same, you know…
• 23:50
  Tad Eggleston: The better resources you had, the better off you were gonna do to begin with.
• 23:54
  ZuZu: Yep.
• 23:55
  andrewcoltrin: Yep.
• 23:55
  ZuZu: Yeah. It's like.
• 23:56
  andrewcoltrin: It's like… it's, like, never… it's… there's too many factors.
• 24:00
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a couple of bipolar people close to me in my life, and, like, the, the way that resources vary can have a huge.
• 24:09
  andrewcoltrin: Jim.
• 24:09
  ZuZu: Oh, yeah.
• 24:11
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and of course, what we didn't… we didn't fully understand at the time is that I had… I had the trifecta bipolar…
• 24:20
  Tad Eggleston: Bipolar, autism, and PTSD. Well, actually.
• 24:25
  Tad Eggleston: as I look at the definition of CPTSD, I guess I probably did have PTSD at that time.
• 24:33
  ZuZu: But…
• 24:33
  Tad Eggleston: But, but the… the… the event that's normally…
• 24:38
  Tad Eggleston: tied to my broader PTSD diagnosis happened a few months later at that college, so…
• 24:47
  ZuZu: Oh… Yeah.
• 24:49
  andrewcoltrin: Damn.
• 24:50
  ZuZu: I've seen a few… it's just sort of, like, anecdotal, you know, conversations or blog posts or whatnot from neurodiverse people that are sort of like, well, given the society we grew up in, like, we're all traumatized, and so, like, trying… it could be very hard.
• 25:04
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I think it's.
• 25:06
  ZuZu: Unlink. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:07
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 25:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. When I was looking at the… and I had to look it up when you said… like, I had meant to look it up when I was reading it.
• 25:16
  Tad Eggleston: But when you said that you had it, I had to look up the CPTSD, the complex post-traumatic Stress Disorder, and I'm sitting there going.
• 25:24
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain there are a handful of neurodivergent people over the age of 30 who don't have CPTSD.
• 25:31
  Tad Eggleston: But I bet you it's more prominent than not.
• 25:34
  ZuZu: I think so, because, well, and it's, you know, for me, part of the way that our brain defends against trauma is by being like, oh, I'm… I'm different. I don't have this trauma, it's how we protect ourselves. So my dumbass did not learn about CPTSD until, multiple people in my life who were very, very close to me had it.
• 25:53
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 25:54
  ZuZu: And so one of those people who's very close to me comes to me and is like, oh yeah, you know, apparently I got my diagnosis last week, apparently this is what I'm dealing with, and I'm like, oh, well, let me go read about this thing that all of these people who are close to me have, because I want to be a good ally, and then I start checking boxes, and I'm like…
• 26:14
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I'm just looking at the Cleveland Clinic definition, so this isn't an in-depth one, but it can result from experiencing chronic trauma, such as prolonged child abuse or domestic violence, and it's like, sure, prolonged child abuse and domestic violence, but those aren't the only kinds of chronic trauma. There's also chronic trauma from…
• 26:34
  Tad Eggleston: I think I should be okay just randomly singing my answer, but I get looked at like my hair is on fire.
• 26:41
  ZuZu: Yep.
• 26:42
  Tad Eggleston: And that's…
• 26:42
  ZuZu: That's it.
• 26:43
  Tad Eggleston: Or… or… the parent that tells you it's time to be a good citizen, and go ahead and wear that sweater that makes you feel like your… your skin is on fire because we need to look good for the… for the… for the family Christmas party. Or…
• 26:59
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 27:01
  ZuZu: Yo!
• 27:01
  Tad Eggleston: You know, all sorts of little things that, like.
• 27:04
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't even like to blame the people, because they didn't know, they didn't know any better. And half the time, they also had to deal with stuff. So, like, when they're saying, you know, you just have to deal with these things, it's because that's what they had to do.
• 27:16
  ZuZu: Exactly! Yeah, you stuff it down here.
• 27:19
  Tad Eggleston: time, it's like.
• 27:20
  Tad Eggleston: Do you understand that what you're asking me to deal with is, like, I don't know how you think it's simple. I actually remember
• 27:27
  Tad Eggleston: And this was before I was nearly as well informed as I've gotten over the last year or so. I remember having a student who asked me, so, how do you figure out if you're autistic? And I said.
• 27:37
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there's lots of different ways, and we're still, like, different therapists do it different ways, whatnot, but I would say the shortcut to self-diagnosing is, can you think of anything in your life where people regularly say, just get over it, and you look at them like, how?
• 27:56
  Tad Eggleston: How? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just get over it? No! I don't… I would love… what do you think I've been trying to do?
• 28:06
  ZuZu: What do you think I've been doing this whole time? Yup.
• 28:08
  Tad Eggleston: Please give me the detailed instructions on how one just gets over that.
• 28:14
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, and.
• 28:15
  andrewcoltrin: I said, so…
• 28:16
  ZuZu: Like, even if you don't have, you know, people in your family, or like, you know, adults are in charge of you as a kid, you know, that are actively causing harm, they are just… usually, you are correct, usually they are also neurodivergent, so they got told to stuff it down and deal with it. That's the best advice I can give you.
• 28:32
  andrewcoltrin: In general.
• 28:33
  ZuZu: generational.
• 28:34
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, there's… and, like.
• 28:35
  Tad Eggleston: They are desperately trying to help you.
• 28:38
  Tad Eggleston: You know, all of the trauma they cause you comes from love.
• 28:41
  andrewcoltrin: It comes from love, but also, like, from a culture that doesn't have very good tools for…
• 28:49
  Tad Eggleston: For dealing with certain things like that. Well, and sometimes there's nothing more dangerous than somebody who's gone through it themselves and thinks that they've done well.
• 28:58
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah. Because then it's like.
• 28:59
  Tad Eggleston: oh, I had to feel this. It… it helped me become who I am, so you need to feel it too.
• 29:05
  Tad Eggleston: Zuzu is snapping right now, which doesn't come up on the audio, but I'm gonna say it, just because that's another thing. Many of us who are autistic would prefer that you snap.
• 29:16
  Tad Eggleston: As applause to clapping.
• 29:18
  ZuZu: It's much easier.
• 29:19
  Tad Eggleston: on our senses?
• 29:21
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, I'm just miming my agreement with you. There's been a lot.
• 29:25
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 29:26
  ZuZu: and snapping over here. Oh, snapping on the inside.
• 29:29
  andrewcoltrin: side, yeah.
• 29:29
  Tad Eggleston: Andrew, I just thought of something that we should, we should, like, team up and do. Oh, yeah.
• 29:36
  Tad Eggleston: Have you had a chance to go look at, at, at, neuroTribes yet? Specifically Chapter 11?
• 29:43
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, I… I haven't gotten back to that yet, but I mean, it's on my.
• 29:46
  Tad Eggleston: No, that's fine.
• 29:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Tad Eggleston: But, but one of the things that they do at, at, like, the autistic events and, and con-type things, is they, they have badges in different colors.
• 30:00
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 30:00
  Tad Eggleston: Red means, please, don't.
• 30:04
  andrewcoltrin: Talk to me.
• 30:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yellow means…
• 30:07
  Tad Eggleston: If you know me, you can talk to me. And green means, you should feel free to talk to me, because I'd like to talk, but I probably won't start a conversation.
• 30:19
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Tad Eggleston: I think that, like, given the number of neurodiverse people in Comic Cons, there should be a push for all cons to have that badge system.
• 30:32
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, that's a…
• 30:36
  andrewcoltrin: That…
• 30:37
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, they might have to go just… Red, green?
• 30:42
  Tad Eggleston: Or, you know, just because getting them.
• 30:45
  andrewcoltrin: to do…
• 30:46
  Tad Eggleston: Any kind of badge where it's three-fold gets more expensive, but it shouldn't be that expensive to do the two-colored
• 30:55
  Tad Eggleston: You know, they're giving you a badge to begin with.
• 30:58
  Tad Eggleston: You know, don't.
• 30:59
  andrewcoltrin: Interesting idea, yeah. Figuring out the mechanics of that, but…
• 31:02
  Tad Eggleston: A meaning shouldn't make it cost more.
• 31:08
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 31:09
  Tad Eggleston: But barring that, they should have readily available, like, buttons or whatever. At which point, if they're not willing to spend it, or if they're not willing to do it on their own, as long as they're willing to give a distribution point, they can…
• 31:25
  Tad Eggleston: The money can be raised from outside groups for, again, a thing that's not actually… Yeah. …expensive.
• 31:34
  andrewcoltrin: That's it. Yeah, I'.
• 31:35
  ZuZu: I'm kind of surprised there's not, like, an ally, like, let's say A11Y, I don't know if you've seen that organization. Like, I'm surprised there's not something like that for Comic-Cons. Like, come consult this entity. Or, like, a mass… it's, like, similar to, like, mask blocking.
• 31:48
  andrewcoltrin: Mmm.
• 31:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I.
• 31:50
  ZuZu: How do we make our events?
• 31:51
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it occurred to me because… because,
• 31:57
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it occurred to me anyway, but it occurred to me even more because, like, I've started making certain that I get
• 32:05
  Tad Eggleston: like, the disability tag on my badge, and figuring out what accommodations are available, etc. But, like, I was at a con where…
• 32:15
  Tad Eggleston: to get to the place to get the disability tag, I had to go through the version of security that was one of the things that I really wanted to be able to avoid.
• 32:28
  ZuZu: Oh, yeah.
• 32:28
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, security.
• 32:29
  ZuZu: such a tax. Yeah.
• 32:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but particularly because, in general, like…
• 32:37
  Tad Eggleston: Most cons have VIP creator security that's separate from that…
• 32:45
  Tad Eggleston: Cause, cause what's, what's hardest for me…
• 32:49
  Tad Eggleston: because I don't have anything that winds up requiring a pat-down most of the time, and cons generally don't do that level of security
• 32:58
  Tad Eggleston: anyway, they're not TSA. That's a whole other discussion that this comic does deal with, as we, I think, touched on earlier, unless it was before we started recording.
• 33:08
  Tad Eggleston: I don't remember.
• 33:10
  andrewcoltrin: I think you started recording.
• 33:12
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:12
  Tad Eggleston: I think I have.
• 33:13
  ZuZu: talk about the TSA comic, yeah.
• 33:15
  Tad Eggleston: Because I had to look up her name. There we go.
• 33:17
  ZuZu: Sorry, Melissa's name, yeah.
• 33:19
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right. But so there's already, like, the place that you can go…
• 33:26
  Tad Eggleston: that isn't as crammed. They have that set up, they just need a way to say, these people are okay to go there.
• 33:34
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 33:35
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I'm just, like, thinking, like, yeah, for me, yeah, those… those security line… just…
• 33:41
  andrewcoltrin: That little bottleneck and the stress…
• 33:45
  ZuZu: Yep.
• 33:45
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 33:46
  andrewcoltrin: I'm like, when am I…
• 33:47
  ZuZu: Okay.
• 33:47
  andrewcoltrin: One of my triggers is, like, people talking behind me, and if I can't get away from that, I'm like, if you're in a line, and people are talking behind you.
• 33:55
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I think, I think I mentioned this to you before, like.
• 33:58
  Tad Eggleston: I can differentiate all the conversations.
• 34:01
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 34:03
  andrewcoltrin: And it's a lot.
• 34:05
  ZuZu: Yeah, that's my… I usually don't have trouble filtering out conversations, but I bounce around a lot, and so I will be keeping track of all four conversations going on around me, so I'll be across the room at a party and be like, oh, that thing you said, the name of the podcast is this, and then I'll go back to what I'm talking about, and I've had people be like.
• 34:21
  Tad Eggleston: I love that for you, it's only 4.
• 34:24
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 34:24
  ZuZu: Well, and when we go to Comic-Con, right, it's so much worse.
• 34:27
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I top out at, like, 30-something.
• 34:31
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, that's… that's hard.
• 34:34
  Tad Eggleston: At any given time, when you've got 30 conversations in your head, at least 3 of them are really pissing you off.
• 34:39
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 34:40
  ZuZu: Yes, correct, yep.
• 34:41
  andrewcoltrin: No, I'm like…
• 34:42
  Tad Eggleston: And probably 10 of them, you're just like, why is this worth using words?
• 34:48
  Tad Eggleston: Are you so afraid of silence that… I mean, my wife regularly
• 34:53
  Tad Eggleston: accuses me of being afraid of silence because I make random… Random sing-songy noises.
• 35:00
  Tad Eggleston: when I'm tired.
• 35:02
  Tad Eggleston: Which is partially that I'm afraid of silence, and partially that I'm tired, and for whatever reason have decided that I want to keep myself up, rather than acknowledging that I'm tired.
• 35:11
  Tad Eggleston: And also that sometimes I just like to… to make random… Songs out of non-words.
• 35:20
  Tad Eggleston: I'm breaking all of this down in real time, in case you haven't figured it out.
• 35:23
  ZuZu: Right.
• 35:24
  andrewcoltrin: No, I'm, like, listening to all this, and I'm like, yeah, yep, yep. And, like, but I'm, like, thinking about that thing, like, a lot of… most of the times, I'm okay with…
• 35:34
  andrewcoltrin: Why am I okay, or do I just get to not be around all the conversations? I'm getting better…
• 35:39
  Tad Eggleston: Some people…
• 35:40
  andrewcoltrin: Filter.
• 35:40
  Tad Eggleston: They're good at making conversations white noise, or they're naturally white noise for them.
• 35:44
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, but there are, like, definitely times where all of a sudden, I hear every single conversation in the room.
• 35:51
  andrewcoltrin: And it's like, oh, I'm about to crash. Like, I'm…
• 35:55
  Tad Eggleston: Alright.
• 35:55
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, it's like, I…
• 35:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:57
  andrewcoltrin: So…
• 35:57
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 35:58
  andrewcoltrin: Like, yeah.
• 35:59
  ZuZu: It's like, when that, like, most of the time, it's like, oh, I'm listening to these things, and I'm letting them, like, wash over me, I'm hearing them, and I'm processing them, but they're going over my head, it's fine, and when I'm about to crash is when, like, all… it just becomes way too much.
• 36:12
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 36:13
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 36:15
  andrewcoltrin: Yep.
• 36:16
  ZuZu: a big plus one to, like, the more tired I am. It's very… it's lovely being in a relationship where both of us know that we're neurodiverse and, like, you know, are…
• 36:26
  ZuZu: supportive in all the ways that one needs to be. Yeah, so, like, so one of the things me and my wife did not know before we got together is that, like, just the amount of random noises we make, and, like, the, like, more tired we are, the more they happen. So we'll just be, like, sitting on the couch, and, you know, one of us will be like.
• 36:43
  ZuZu: And the other one will be like, oh, you're so cute. And we're like, oh, was I making sound changes?
• 36:48
  Tad Eggleston: That's…
• 36:49
  Tad Eggleston: That's the type of masking that I have to do when I'm at my in-laws. It's not… it's not…
• 36:55
  Tad Eggleston: Y-you know, I mean… It's just not appropriate to improv poop songs after going to the bathroom.
• 37:02
  ZuZu: That's what we need to.
• 37:03
  Tad Eggleston: in-laws.
• 37:04
  andrewcoltrin: That's why… That's why I keep a 2-year-old close by. There we go, perfect.
• 37:10
  ZuZu: You can make all.
• 37:10
  andrewcoltrin: Okay, make the crazy sounds and sing all the poop songs.
• 37:14
  andrewcoltrin: in your house, it's like, yeah…
• 37:16
  Tad Eggleston: The 2-year-old is his child, not just a random 2-year-old.
• 37:20
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yes, my biological child.
• 37:22
  Tad Eggleston: Drew does not own an island.
• 37:24
  andrewcoltrin: Product of biology and science, and yeah, no, I mean…
• 37:29
  andrewcoltrin: Long story, but yes, I have a child in my…
• 37:32
  Tad Eggleston: I'm trying to remember who it was recently that in response to there being
• 37:36
  Tad Eggleston: being more neurodiverse children than there ever were before just said, yeah, because more neurodiverse… neurodiverse people are fucking than ever before.
• 37:47
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 37:48
  ZuZu: That's interesting. I don't… I don't think that's statistically true. That's part of why the conservatives are all up in arms, right, is because millennials aren't having a lot of babies.
• 37:56
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah, now, yeah, that's… yeah, right.
• 37:58
  ZuZu: But we do have more kids statistics.
• 38:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, but…
• 38:01
  ZuZu: population.
• 38:02
  Tad Eggleston: But if the neurodiverse people aren't being sterilized and or put in…
• 38:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yes. And institutions at a very young age for the rest of their life.
• 38:13
  Tad Eggleston: more ability to procreate, even if overall millennials are having less babies.
• 38:19
  ZuZu: Yeah, okay, yeah.
• 38:20
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, it's like, it's like, well, millennials are having less babies because…
• 38:26
  Tad Eggleston: smart.
• 38:26
  ZuZu: with everything.
• 38:27
  andrewcoltrin: of everything, because, like, I can't afford… you know, there's a lot of… Yeah.
• 38:33
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I love how they can't figure out that they're having less babies, because…
• 38:38
  Tad Eggleston: Because of the policies that make it too expensive for them to have babies?
• 38:44
  Tad Eggleston: That you might have an increased birth rate if you had free childcare, free healthcare, .
• 38:52
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. Yup.
• 38:53
  Tad Eggleston: Just… just more… more basic social services might…
• 38:58
  andrewcoltrin: I don't know if rent control's the right word, maybe just rent stability, like…
• 39:03
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, rent stability. Oh, oh! Crazy, crazy, crazy idea!
• 39:09
  Tad Eggleston: The ability to buy and own your own house.
• 39:13
  andrewcoltrin: And, yeah.
• 39:14
  andrewcoltrin: That is…
• 39:15
  ZuZu: Nope.
• 39:17
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 39:18
  ZuZu: I wonder also, like, I have… I have no data on this at all, so I don't know. Leave some in the comments, I guess, before.
• 39:28
  ZuZu: listening. But, like, I also wonder just how much is… like, I know a number of people who got diagnosed, some flavor of neurodiverse, when their kids were diagnosed.
• 39:39
  andrewcoltrin: He's like.
• 39:39
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 39:40
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 39:41
  ZuZu: I wonder how much of it is parents that are just also more supportive, like what you said about we're not, you know, putting people away, and so we have more people who are.
• 39:50
  andrewcoltrin: And more, more awareness, more, yeah, more putting people away.
• 39:53
  Tad Eggleston: The primary reason that the number is going up, and this is
• 39:57
  Tad Eggleston: Pretty well documented is… is just we're better at identifying it.
• 40:03
  ZuZu: You're like…
• 40:04
  Tad Eggleston: The number that's not going up particularly is affluent white males, because they've always had autism when it suited them.
• 40:16
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 40:16
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 40:19
  andrewcoltrin: It's like, yeah, there's… there's that. There's that… that factor of… Of, yeah, it's… It's a problem… Because,
• 40:32
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, they want homogenized people for filling the dredge jobs.
• 40:40
  andrewcoltrin: But affluent people…
• 40:41
  Tad Eggleston: The problem is… is when it's the poor black kid that's autistic rather than… than… than lazy.
• 40:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, it's like…
• 40:49
  Tad Eggleston: Or the white girl that's autistic.
• 40:52
  Tad Eggleston: than mouthy.
• 40:54
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 40:55
  Tad Eggleston: or…
• 40:55
  andrewcoltrin: Maybe I wasn't…
• 40:56
  Tad Eggleston: Or autistic rather than docile.
• 40:59
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 41:00
  Tad Eggleston: Or…
• 41:02
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 41:03
  andrewcoltrin: I'm like, Yes.
• 41:07
  andrewcoltrin: I don't know if I'm getting at my idea very clearly, but it's okay.
• 41:13
  ZuZu: I think that… I think I kind of picked up where you were laying down.
• 41:17
  andrewcoltrin: What I'm saying is, like, like…
• 41:18
  ZuZu: chemically.
• 41:19
  andrewcoltrin: So, like.
• 41:20
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 41:21
  ZuZu: No, go, go.
• 41:22
  andrewcoltrin: The capitalist system, and like… It is really…
• 41:27
  andrewcoltrin: like, capitalism wants standardized and interchangeable units so that they can make the most money off of stuff. And so…
• 41:36
  andrewcoltrin: They're… the demo edition, or the… expectations.
• 41:40
  Tad Eggleston: A small group of people can make the most money.
• 41:44
  andrewcoltrin: Small group of people can make the most money, yeah, it's like… and it's not even, like, like, they're not even…
• 41:49
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, the owners are not.
• 41:52
  Tad Eggleston: Without having to think very hard.
• 41:55
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, and so… so, like, for… for that sort of industrialized way of doing things, they absolutely…
• 42:04
  andrewcoltrin: The goal of capitalism is to…
• 42:07
  andrewcoltrin: To just extract the most capital out of…
• 42:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, what's ironic.
• 42:12
  andrewcoltrin: And so, like, they don't want to include all people in the workplace, they just want to include the ones that they can extract the most capital out of, so the definition of who's an acceptable human being narrows as capitalism,
• 42:32
  andrewcoltrin: Narrows down what it needs in its standardized units for, for production.
• 42:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, what's ironic, and, like…
• 42:43
  Tad Eggleston: sign that not many of the people making the decisions are neuro-spicy?
• 42:49
  Tad Eggleston: is that, like, think of the number of jobs that sound horrible to the average person, that, like, a neuro… I mean, I can think… not me, but I know neurodivergent people that either are and love being Amazon
• 43:04
  Tad Eggleston: warehouse employees, or would be perfect for it, because the idea of just running around and finding the item, putting it on the thing, running and finding the item, all day long?
• 43:13
  Tad Eggleston: It's like they're heaven.
• 43:14
  Tad Eggleston: As long as you give them their headphones? I mean, you have to do some minimal things… to get
• 43:23
  Tad Eggleston: like, beyond maximum productivity out of them. Programming can be the same way. There's so many repetitive tasks out there that, like.
• 43:32
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 43:33
  Tad Eggleston: Most people make tons of mistakes because they get bored doing a repetitive task, but there's a certain
• 43:39
  Tad Eggleston: A certain subsection of neurodivergent, that if you keep them comfortable in the other ways that they need, and give them a repetitive task, they'll happily give you 16 hours of labor before they even know that they… need to have lunch.
• 43:54
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 43:57
  andrewcoltrin: It's…
• 43:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yep. You practically have to stop them. You'd have to, like, say, no, 8 hours is up, please go home.
• 44:06
  Tad Eggleston: But I'm having fun.
• 44:08
  andrewcoltrin: I'm having fun. Yeah, let me… Cap.
• 44:13
  andrewcoltrin: Bart will be the Scrivener. You need to go home now. I prefer not to.
• 44:18
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, goodness. Right.
• 44:19
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wait a minute, but… but autism didn't exist yet.
• 44:25
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. What, what? In Melville's time?
• 44:30
  andrewcoltrin: Have you read much Melville? I think autism existed.
• 44:33
  andrewcoltrin: It did!
• 44:34
  Tad Eggleston: Nothing didn't exist until the 40s. Everybody knows this. Nothing exists until it has a word.
• 44:40
  andrewcoltrin: I don't think it exists. Oh my gosh, I read a biography of, oh, Noah Webster?
• 44:48
  andrewcoltrin: You know, the lexicographer who name goes the website.
• 44:53
  andrewcoltrin: D…
• 44:54
  andrewcoltrin: you know, he was… he was around during the Revolutionary times, he's a little bit too young to be in the… the war, but, you know, came up a little bit after that, and then… but, like, what is things like?
• 45:05
  andrewcoltrin: He just really liked grammar.
• 45:08
  andrewcoltrin: Printed a grammar primer, and then… then he would…
• 45:11
  andrewcoltrin: sold okay on that, and he would just, like, go around any… the first time he would be in a town.
• 45:17
  andrewcoltrin: He would have to count every house in the town before he did anything else.
• 45:22
  andrewcoltrin: I'm like, yeah, autism didn't exist, though, but, you know… No, no! It's like… We didn't have…
• 45:29
  ZuZu: If I remember correctly.
• 45:30
  Tad Eggleston: Totally new.
• 45:32
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 45:36
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 45:36
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, it's only new. I'm like, no, there's a lot of… a lot of people who did, like, innovative things, or, like…
• 45:43
  andrewcoltrin: Created a system of how to do something that hadn't.
• 45:46
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, I told you my favorite… my favorite autism meme that my wife has sent my direction.
• 45:53
  Tad Eggleston: Fire was created by the guy at the back of the cave banging rocks together to see what happens while all of the other people were out front discussing their hair.
• 46:04
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 46:05
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 46:12
  andrewcoltrin: Yup, so I was like, well, I mean… Yeah.
• 46:17
  Tad Eggleston: So, since we didn't manage to do it as much last time…
• 46:22
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 46:23
  Tad Eggleston: And since, obviously, we haven't done it with Suzu at all,
• 46:28
  Tad Eggleston: I want you guys to give me your comics
• 46:31
  Tad Eggleston: biographies. And by that, I don't mean you're… bibliographies.
• 46:37
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, if you want to sprinkle in some bibliography, that's fine, but what I really mean is, like.
• 46:43
  Tad Eggleston: Talk to me about… your life through comics. The comics you remember reading, comics you remember…
• 46:52
  Tad Eggleston: buying, comics you remember, changing the way you look at things, comics that made you want to make comics, whatnot. Like, this is the opportunity to drop a list of your favorite things.
• 47:08
  Tad Eggleston: But… but just, yeah, comics, biographies, and we're gonna let Zuzu start, because… because we've been way too man-centric.
• 47:16
  ZuZu: I was sitting there going, like, oh, I wonder what I'll… I'll let Andrew go first.
• 47:21
  andrewcoltrin: -Oh.
• 47:22
  ZuZu: No, no, we're good. We're doing it live. But yeah, golly, so I…
• 47:29
  ZuZu: first encountered comics when I was really tiny. I was born early 90s, so my dad was actively collecting spawn. My mom and I would, like, go to the comic shop to pick up issues for him.
• 47:42
  ZuZu: And my mom would read me the Baby Blues comic strips, because that was one of the only Zoeys that was in the media at the time, and I didn't really like Zoe Monster. So, yeah, Baby Blues was great. Yeah, that's… that is what I grew up… I'd be in my mom's lap, and she'd, like, pointing to the panels and, like, reading them to me.
• 48:03
  ZuZu: And yeah, I think the first comic strip I ever made, I don't know if I still have it anywhere, but, like, I made one of Zoe not wanting to clean her room, because I didn't want to clean my room.
• 48:13
  ZuZu: I gave it to Mom, she's like, yeah, you do still have to clean.
• 48:19
  ZuZu: But yeah, so then, I think around 10, by the time I was 10, I was reading all sorts of stuff by myself that was, like, Foxtrot, and Calvin and Hobbes, and, the Schultz collections my mom had laying around, all sorts of stuff.
• 48:35
  ZuZu: And, so I figured out around that age that you could be a cartoonist for a living. And then I went up to my principal in elementary school, and I was like, you know what the student, or what the parent newsletter needs? And she's like, no, what? I'm like, it's a comic. I'll do your comics. You're welcome.
• 48:52
  ZuZu: So, yeah, I… yeah, I've been technically publishing since I was 10.
• 48:58
  ZuZu: Yeah, and then from there,
• 49:00
  ZuZu: just kind of chased comics publication for a very long time, that is what my piece is. I have two pieces in there, one I illustrated with my wife, and she did the script for, and then my solo piece, goes into a lot of that a lot more.
• 49:13
  ZuZu: But yeah, worked, you know, worked for the school paper, and was chasing publication for a very long time.
• 49:22
  ZuZu: let's see, 2015 is when They Have Issues came out, and I was editor-in-chief for that. It was a bunch of different, gender-diverse people that all worked at comic shops.
• 49:34
  ZuZu: I think it was 18 creators?
• 49:37
  ZuZu: Yeah. It was, like, 18 creators from 3 different countries, I think was the final count on that one. Wow. Yeah, it was very fun, it was my first Kickstarter, it was so messy, I didn't know what I was doing. Yes, I read the guides, I still didn't know what I was doing.
• 49:50
  andrewcoltrin: Still don't know what I'm doing, but I'm doing it anyway.
• 49:52
  ZuZu: Yep, yep, that's… Pretty much the attic.
• 49:54
  Tad Eggleston: If it was 2015, and you were doing Kickstarter, that's…
• 50:00
  ZuZu: Oh, it was a whole other world. Yeah, I think we had a Spike's Guide, and that was about it.
• 50:05
  Tad Eggleston: I was about to say, like…
• 50:07
  Tad Eggleston: that makes you one of the early adopters. I think the only other person I know who did Kickstarter in 2015 was Spike.
• 50:15
  ZuZu: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
• 50:17
  Tad Eggleston: Mike's awesome.
• 50:18
  ZuZu: Yes, yeah, so it was, it was the guide.
• 50:20
  Tad Eggleston: It makes a fight.
• 50:21
  ZuZu: I like to say spicer.
• 50:22
  Tad Eggleston: friend. Oh my god. Excellent.
• 50:23
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, they're incredible.
• 50:25
  Tad Eggleston: She's amazing.
• 50:26
  andrewcoltrin: I did my time travel novel on Kickstarter in 2015, so…
• 50:30
  Tad Eggleston: Did you?
• 50:30
  ZuZu: Yeah, I feel like a lot of the indie… oh, ha, haha, I see.
• 50:35
  andrewcoltrin: It really did, though. It's true, it's… but also…
• 50:39
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, I wrote a time travel note, as one does, but… I haven't, I haven't read it yet.
• 50:45
  Tad Eggleston: I think I have it via your Patreon, but I haven't read it yet.
• 50:50
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, maybe…
• 50:51
  Tad Eggleston: I don't do prose as well as I do comics. That's okay. I listen to prose, so if you read it.
• 50:57
  Tad Eggleston: And put it in a… in a…
• 51:01
  ZuZu: Yeah, I'm an audiophore.
• 51:01
  Tad Eggleston: Refile and send it to me, then I'll read it.
• 51:05
  andrewcoltrin: Okay, not to, like, step on Zuzi's thing, but I… but yeah, my… I wrote this stupid time travel novel that I just always thought of should be a comic, but I just didn't want to draw it, and then…
• 51:19
  andrewcoltrin: Anybody wants to illustrate my nutty, time travel novel.
• 51:25
  Tad Eggleston: How consistent are the, are the, the time travel rules?
• 51:35
  andrewcoltrin: That's very important.
• 51:36
  Tad Eggleston: Just because that will matter to some artists.
• 51:39
  Tad Eggleston: I'm one of the rare people that I can go either way, as long as I figure out relatively quickly whether they're trying to stick to rules, or whether they're just playing fast and loose.
• 51:51
  Tad Eggleston: But, like…
• 51:52
  andrewcoltrin: No, I mean, there are…
• 51:53
  Tad Eggleston: If you're gonna stick to rules, A, you have to manage to be consistent with them, which is the hardest part in a time travel book, and B, the rules themselves have to make some modicum of sense.
• 52:05
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. Now, it's been a while since I read it myself.
• 52:10
  andrewcoltrin: And wrote it, but… but… Time travel law was part of the… So there were rules.
• 52:17
  andrewcoltrin: Okay. But it was all about breaking the rules. Sorry.
• 52:21
  ZuZu: time travel, I was, like, reading about superpositions, and I think that's about the point that I'm like, maybe this doesn't need to be created, actually.
• 52:27
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I, I, I will, I will, I will toss a shout-out to Ibrahim, Ibrahim Mustafa's,
• 52:37
  Tad Eggleston: Retroactive, and Stephanie Williams, and who was the artist for Temporal?
• 52:44
  Tad Eggleston: Th-th-those are my, my…
• 52:48
  Tad Eggleston: My, my, my two favorite time-traveling things.
• 52:51
  ZuZu: Control rings a bell.
• 52:52
  andrewcoltrin: Nice.
• 52:53
  Tad Eggleston: Recently. Well, that was, that was this year.
• 52:56
  ZuZu: Okay.
• 52:57
  Tad Eggleston: Stephanie Williams… Illustrated by… Asea Fulmore.
• 53:06
  ZuZu: Nice. Yeah, that one I don't know as much.
• 53:09
  andrewcoltrin: There we go.
• 53:10
  Tad Eggleston: Whereas retroactive was Ibrahim Mustafa all by himself, I think he might have had a colorist, I can't remember, at Humanoids a couple years ago.
• 53:21
  andrewcoltrin: Nice.
• 53:21
  ZuZu: Yeah, a lot of work.
• 53:24
  ZuZu: Wow.
• 53:26
  ZuZu: But yeah, I think that's about it.
• 53:27
  Tad Eggleston: People like the cartoon.
• 53:29
  ZuZu: That's… oh, okay, okay, that's a fun neurodivergent question for everybody, although we, you know, we gotta get back to Andrew's, bio as well.
• 53:38
  Tad Eggleston: We've got some time. We still have half an hour.
• 53:40
  ZuZu: Okay, because there's such a thing as neurodiversity.
• 53:42
  Tad Eggleston: And Andrew's here for the second time, so, like, if we don't get his bio…
• 53:46
  ZuZu: True, that's true.
• 53:48
  andrewcoltrin: True, yeah.
• 53:49
  ZuZu: But yeah, I just, like, what are y'all's thoughts on, like, you sit down, you're like, oh, I'm gonna… I'm gonna make this thing, and I have this, like, beautiful script, and I'm exci… like, I am actually excited to tell this story, it's all ready, and then I sit down to do the… the drudgery, you know, some of the… not the… the stuff that create… that…
• 54:06
  ZuZu: very much requires skill from other people who do this professionally, and I am just not good at, so I will sit down and, like, do all of my flats, and be like, oh my god, I'm gonna die before I finish this.
• 54:19
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's why I wish that we had much more money in comics, because I think.
• 54:23
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 54:24
  Tad Eggleston: Do the things that they like.
• 54:26
  Tad Eggleston: Never possible, and if they're not doing the things that they like, somebody else should be getting paid to… to…
• 54:34
  Tad Eggleston: To do something either that they like, or… or… or they don't like it, but at least they're making money doing it?
• 54:41
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 54:42
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Tad Eggleston: You know, that sort of thing?
• 54:45
  ZuZu: Yeah, that is why my current, project playlist for possessed dolls and depressed smokers, it just does… all of the backgrounds are photographed, because I hate doing them, I can't pay someone.
• 54:54
  andrewcoltrin: To do it for me.
• 54:54
  ZuZu: me, and I don't have the time to do it myself. So it's just like, well…
• 54:59
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 55:00
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 55:01
  andrewcoltrin: It's… You make it work, though, look, I like the style, but yeah.
• 55:05
  ZuZu: Thank you.
• 55:05
  andrewcoltrin: I, I, but yeah, no, I totally, 100% agree, my backgrounds are hard, and…
• 55:12
  Tad Eggleston: I know some people who make 3D models.
• 55:14
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah…
• 55:15
  ZuZu: Yeah!
• 55:16
  Tad Eggleston: They do the drawing on top of that, and then they sketch
• 55:19
  Tad Eggleston: Over the… the… whatever the model was.
• 55:23
  ZuZu: Yeah, Carrie Peach has a really cool breakdown of the Adventure Zone backgrounds, and it's in… that's that method, the 3D model, like, traced over, and it's gorgeous, and it's so nice to, like, be able to keep track of where everything is in space. That was always my thing. I was hand drawing for a long time, and was like, alright, this building is over here now!
• 55:42
  ZuZu: Oh, yeah.
• 55:43
  Tad Eggleston: See, we are named for Wally Wood's 22 Panels That Always Work. I should also say that Wally Wood is well known for never draw what you can trace, never trace what you can paste up, and never paste up what you can copy outright.
• 55:59
  andrewcoltrin: We're still living.
• 56:00
  ZuZu: It's right along with the Great Art of Steel, that line.
• 56:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:07
  ZuZu: Yep.
• 56:08
  Tad Eggleston: It's been attributed to everybody back to Shakespeare.
• 56:11
  ZuZu: Yeah, yep.
• 56:13
  Tad Eggleston: Good writers borrow liberally from other writers, great artists steal things outright.
• 56:20
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah… And then…
• 56:23
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and see, like, I love that line, because, like, the way my neurodivergent mind breaks it down is, like…
• 56:31
  Tad Eggleston: The idea that you're completely original is just a fallacy. You are built from everything that you've experienced, everything that you've read, all the art you've seen, whatever.
• 56:43
  Tad Eggleston: So, obviously, on some level, you're borrowing. So, any good writer is borrowing.
• 56:50
  Tad Eggleston: If you… the reason it's great writers steal things outright, I mean, is because it sounds funny,
• 56:58
  Tad Eggleston: Because knowing when to not reinvent the wheel is part of what gets you through deadlines, but most importantly, because if you manage to steal something outright and still be considered a great writer.
• 57:12
  Tad Eggleston: You fitted in in a way where people didn't realize you were stealing.
• 57:18
  Tad Eggleston: Which means that you're a great writer.
• 57:22
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. Or, like, you did it in a way that added something new to it that hadn't been there before, and then…
• 57:28
  Tad Eggleston: Put it into a different context, or whatever.
• 57:31
  andrewcoltrin: like, you know, Rick Moranis in Dave Thomas' classic film, Strange Brew.
• 57:39
  andrewcoltrin: revolutionized the whole plot of Hamlet.
• 57:42
  Tad Eggleston: now?
• 57:43
  andrewcoltrin: Created a comedy out of that dark, dark tragic… no.
• 57:50
  Tad Eggleston: There have been so many things based on… on… I mean…
• 57:55
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 57:56
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes obvious, sometimes less so, I mean, and for that matter, Shakespeare himself borrowed from, like.
• 58:02
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 58:03
  Tad Eggleston: Why is his old source material?
• 58:05
  andrewcoltrin: Two original plots out of 40, however many plays, but yeah.
• 58:10
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Right.
• 58:12
  andrewcoltrin: Because…
• 58:13
  andrewcoltrin: You're doing… yeah.
• 58:17
  andrewcoltrin: It's okay. That's how it works.
• 58:20
  andrewcoltrin: And… oh man, remember when, like, every TV show did, like, their…
• 58:25
  andrewcoltrin: It's a Beautiful Life, or It's a Wonderful Life, Christmas episode.
• 58:29
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 58:29
  ZuZu: Yeah, okay, so I do really appreciate, like, the reinvention of a trope. Like, there's some, like, your cartoon shows are always gonna have either a Wonderful Life or a Christmas past, they're always gonna have a, we have to shrink down and go inside someone else's body, there's, like, a couple things like that that they do on purpose, and they know that the audience isn't on the joke, and I love that stuff.
• 58:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 58:48
  Tad Eggleston: I do too.
• 58:50
  ZuZu: Yeah, I think it's interesting how you can mask and not…
• 58:54
  Tad Eggleston: Why, why reinvent the wheel over and over again? Doesn't mean you should be afraid to invent the wheel.
• 59:02
  Tad Eggleston: Or whatever the next wheel is. But if you need a wheel.
• 59:06
  Tad Eggleston: Rather than coming up with something, you can just use a wheel.
• 59:11
  andrewcoltrin: Just use a wheel. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and like, yeah, just maybe roll the wheel in a new direction, but yeah, keep using the same wheel, yeah.
• 59:20
  ZuZu: Yeah, there's a lot of different, like, I don't know, categories for that, for that phenomenon of, like, redoing different stories, because some of them are, like.
• 59:28
  ZuZu: here is a standard wheel, or I'm gonna take the wheel, or I'm gonna, like, whatever, put treads on it, or something, and that's, like, your hero's journey, where it's, like, everybody
• 59:35
  ZuZu: follows this format, but we… but we all know it, we're all kind of… yeah, so it's very, very, almost, like, minimal, all the way up to, we have to shrink down to go inside someone's body, which is a template, and it's, like, a very fun trope, and I think there's, like, a whole spectrum in between, which is really cool.
• 59:49
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 59:50
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 59:50
  Tad Eggleston: You ever want to see the template for, like, 90% of television?
• 59:55
  Tad Eggleston: Between 1985 and, like… Game of Thrones.
• 1:00:02
  Tad Eggleston: Just go watch Smash.
• 1:00:04
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, mash, yeah.
• 1:00:05
  ZuZu: Yeah, that ran for a really long time, right?
• 1:00:09
  andrewcoltrin: longer.
• 1:00:09
  Tad Eggleston: They ran…
• 1:00:09
  andrewcoltrin: Actual Korean War, yeah.
• 1:00:11
  ZuZu: I did not understand.
• 1:00:12
  Tad Eggleston: I think 11 or…
• 1:00:14
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Tad Eggleston: 11 ceilings?
• 1:00:15
  andrewcoltrin: I think it was 11 seasons.
• 1:00:17
  Tad Eggleston: Right, whereas the Korean War was 2 years.
• 1:00:20
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Tad Eggleston: But, like… but, like…
• 1:00:26
  Tad Eggleston: MASH had the Dear Dad episode, you know, how many TV shows have been built around writing a letter to…
• 1:00:35
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:00:36
  Tad Eggleston: A parent, a sibling, you know…
• 1:00:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, for that matter, I laughed because… I mean, I'm a huge Aaron Sorkin fan, so, like, when I rewatch Mash, I'm like, oh yeah, Sorkin lifted that, Sorkin.
• 1:00:51
  andrewcoltrin: Mmm.
• 1:00:51
  Tad Eggleston: We're gonna lifted that.
• 1:00:54
  Tad Eggleston: But it goes right down to, there's a MASH episode built around…
• 1:01:00
  Tad Eggleston: the 1951 pennant race between the Cardinals, Giants, and Dodgers that wound up
• 1:01:08
  Tad Eggleston: in the playoff series between the Giants and Dodgers and Bobby Thompson's home run.
• 1:01:13
  Tad Eggleston: And there's a Sports Night episode about Bobby Thompson's home run.
• 1:01:19
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so that, like, even in terms of, like.
• 1:01:24
  Tad Eggleston: using a specific historical event as a framing sequence, like, Mash used it in real time.
• 1:01:31
  Tad Eggleston: Because, you know, it was during the Korean War that it happened, and Sports Night used the 49th anniversary of it, because is there a rule that it has to come in fives and tens?
• 1:01:43
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, does it?
• 1:01:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, what's…
• 1:01:48
  Tad Eggleston: But I just loved that, like, that's how influential MASH was, that, like…
• 1:01:54
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  Tad Eggleston: Even just, like, the same… Framing.
• 1:02:00
  Tad Eggleston: sequence.
• 1:02:01
  ZuZu: Interesting.
• 1:02:01
  Tad Eggleston: Got… got used.
• 1:02:03
  andrewcoltrin: Right, yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Tad Eggleston: 30 years later, and I guess only 20 years later, because that MASH episode was, I think, 70… it was a Winchester episode, so it was…
• 1:02:15
  Tad Eggleston: In the second half of.
• 1:02:16
  andrewcoltrin: Oh.
• 1:02:16
  Tad Eggleston: it might have.
• 1:02:17
  andrewcoltrin: Normally.
• 1:02:17
  Tad Eggleston: is 80.
• 1:02:19
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, every time I talk to you, I think of, like, oh, I need to rewatch all these shows and dig these books…
• 1:02:28
  Tad Eggleston: It's weird, I remember more from books and shows, but only… like, there was a…
• 1:02:33
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  Tad Eggleston: That, it was the… it was the, the, the thesis… Defense cart.
• 1:02:42
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Tad Eggleston: that I loved, like, I can tell you about things from a thousand different hyperfixations, but not on demand.
• 1:02:50
  andrewcoltrin: But not underage. Exactly.
• 1:02:53
  Tad Eggleston: That's totally how my brain works. I hadn't thought of, like, the Sorkin-MASH connection in probably 5 or 6 years.
• 1:03:01
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 1:03:01
  Tad Eggleston: But it popped into my head here.
• 1:03:04
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:03:07
  andrewcoltrin: Oh my god.
• 1:03:07
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think I've actually, like, binged MASH in 15 years. I've, like, occasionally gone, oh, I'm gonna throw MASH on as my…
• 1:03:16
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:03:16
  Tad Eggleston: falling asleep stuff. I did recently do a Sports Night binge, but I don't remember if I was awake for the…
• 1:03:23
  Tad Eggleston: The Bobby Thompson episode.
• 1:03:27
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 1:03:28
  Tad Eggleston: Though it is in one of my favorite three-episode sequences of all time, because it was right after the cut man cometh.
• 1:03:36
  Tad Eggleston: And a girl named Pixley.
• 1:03:39
  Tad Eggleston: But we're going down a rabbit hole.
• 1:03:40
  andrewcoltrin: We're going… we go down a rabbit hole, and I'm like…
• 1:03:42
  Tad Eggleston: There's this type of stuff, I'm trying to figure out a.
• 1:03:44
  ZuZu: No, I just, no, no, I just, my cat's in again, so I was about to mute myself, so I'll be right back.
• 1:03:52
  Tad Eggleston: I was trying to figure out if you were going even deeper down the rabbit hole or something.
• 1:03:56
  andrewcoltrin: No, the cat isn't…
• 1:03:57
  ZuZu: Oh, no, yeah, sometimes I'm looking stuff up, like, as we've been talking.
• 1:04:00
  Tad Eggleston: No, I know, I do that all the time.
• 1:04:03
  andrewcoltrin: It was a smash run, yeah.
• 1:04:05
  Tad Eggleston: users trying to find specific episodes of MASH and Sports Night.
• 1:04:09
  andrewcoltrin: MASH, and… yes.
• 1:04:12
  andrewcoltrin: Oh my gosh…
• 1:04:14
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, before she gets back, we need to get into closing questions.
• 1:04:19
  andrewcoltrin: Right.
• 1:04:20
  Tad Eggleston: Which you've done before, which means I hope that you have new answers.
• 1:04:23
  andrewcoltrin: New answer? Okay.
• 1:04:24
  Tad Eggleston: wired, if I remember the answers from the last time.
• 1:04:26
  andrewcoltrin: about new answers, oh my god.
• 1:04:28
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, and… B,
• 1:04:32
  Tad Eggleston: you won't have to think as hard for that part anyway, or at least shouldn't. Give us the short version of your comics biography.
• 1:04:40
  andrewcoltrin: My comics biography. Okay, so, yeah, I'm, you know, born in 74, so…
• 1:04:46
  andrewcoltrin: When I was a kid.
• 1:04:48
  Tad Eggleston: old man at the…
• 1:04:49
  andrewcoltrin: Old man, yeah, although, you know…
• 1:04:51
  Tad Eggleston: Me beat, even.
• 1:04:52
  andrewcoltrin: I know, I mean…
• 1:04:55
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, but it's fine, I'm young at heart, but yeah, so anyway, you know, the electric company was on the PBS back then, and they had a Spider-Man bit.
• 1:05:05
  Tad Eggleston: electric company.
• 1:05:06
  andrewcoltrin: Spider-Man, but it was like…
• 1:05:07
  andrewcoltrin: a weird version of Spider-Man, because he never said anything, and he was always like, you know… he was like the pantomime Spider-Man, and…
• 1:05:15
  Tad Eggleston: Kinda like Deadpool the first time he appeared in an X-Men movie.
• 1:05:20
  andrewcoltrin: It was… But, so there's that, but then…
• 1:05:23
  Tad Eggleston: It was somehow also paid by Ryan Reynolds then.
• 1:05:30
  Tad Eggleston: Which, which, what a waste of Ryan Reynolds.
• 1:05:33
  andrewcoltrin: You know, I haven't…
• 1:05:34
  Tad Eggleston: Silent.
• 1:05:35
  andrewcoltrin: I have no idea who played Spider-Man. It could have been Morgan Freeman. That would be…
• 1:05:42
  Tad Eggleston: That would be fucking hilarious.
• 1:05:43
  andrewcoltrin: Should be… and possible, but, yeah, no, okay, so anyway, yeah, so that…
• 1:05:50
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, yeah, you know, the comic section in the newspaper at the time had a Spider-Man strip, which was…
• 1:05:56
  Tad Eggleston: That was actually Stan Lee and John Romita.
• 1:06:00
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Tad Eggleston: And it's… it's being collected now.
• 1:06:02
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, cool, yeah, it's…
• 1:06:04
  Tad Eggleston: I think one of the volumes is on Kickstarter, even.
• 1:06:06
  andrewcoltrin: Probably. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, I was like, you know, I'm a kid, I might read Spider-Man.
• 1:06:13
  Tad Eggleston: Danny Siegren was the first live-action Spider-Man. He was a trained dancer and puppeteer, who also played Big Bird for one episode of Sesame Street.
• 1:06:23
  andrewcoltrin: One episode. Alright.
• 1:06:25
  ZuZu: Excellent.
• 1:06:25
  Tad Eggleston: What's your answer to who played Spider-Man?
• 1:06:28
  andrewcoltrin: Alright.
• 1:06:28
  Tad Eggleston: On the electric company.
• 1:06:29
  andrewcoltrin: Nice, for… The most obscure bit of trivia that we're gonna have this episode.
• 1:06:37
  ZuZu: Some trivia night, I'll be ready.
• 1:06:39
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, okay, but so, anyway, so, yeah, my mom…
• 1:06:46
  andrewcoltrin: just didn't like com- like, she didn't like reading them to me as a kid, so even though I had a couple Superman comics that came from, she's like, oh, I don't know, and so I just have to look at them by myself and teach myself how to read, I guess. No, I learned how to read. But,
• 1:06:59
  andrewcoltrin: You know, it was just, like, newspaper strip stuff, like, I'd always… we'd have the newspaper at home, and I'd always read the comics page. So, that was the first foundation, and…
• 1:07:08
  andrewcoltrin: I remember in elementary school,
• 1:07:14
  andrewcoltrin: I didn't really know about superhero comics, but there were these guys I would hang out near that kept talking about X-Men comics, and I'd be like, oh, well, that sounds cool, so I, like, I absorbed some lore from them, but I don't really remember actually reading comics back then.
• 1:07:28
  andrewcoltrin: But then…
• 1:07:29
  Tad Eggleston: reading in advance of John Burns' X-Men Elsewin.
• 1:07:33
  Tad Eggleston: Which is the fanfic made by the pro that is now becoming an actual published book, which is just…
• 1:07:41
  Tad Eggleston: So weird and cool on so many…
• 1:07:43
  andrewcoltrin: Weird, yeah. So, yeah, so like…
• 1:07:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, it was weird, elementary school kids… but, yeah, so then…
• 1:07:52
  andrewcoltrin: Then, yeah, towards the end of elementary school, I got really into the Robotech cartoon, and then somebody…
• 1:07:58
  ZuZu: Oh, yeah.
• 1:07:59
  andrewcoltrin: told me that, oh, you can get comic books, too, and then all of a sudden, I was like, I gotta go to the comic store. And it was like, that was my entry into that, and I was like, oh, cool, and so I kind of veered towards, you know, anime and manga.
• 1:08:12
  andrewcoltrin: like, right off, because, like, that's where Robotech took me, and then…
• 1:08:18
  andrewcoltrin: Then when middle school was terrible… Like… 7th grade, I… everybody…
• 1:08:26
  Tad Eggleston: Have you ever met a neurodiverse person whose middle school experience was good?
• 1:08:31
  andrewcoltrin: No.
• 1:08:32
  ZuZu: I was wondering, I was like.
• 1:08:33
  andrewcoltrin: No, no, I haven't.
• 1:08:34
  ZuZu: Going back to research.
• 1:08:35
  andrewcoltrin: to find out… I did research in the field to find out why is middle school terrible, and I was like, oh, it's because you're neurodivergent. It's fine. But anyway…
• 1:08:43
  Tad Eggleston: Well, middle school is actually, I think, terrible for most people.
• 1:08:47
  andrewcoltrin: It is, it's…
• 1:08:48
  Tad Eggleston: Why it winds up particularly terrible for neurodiversity.
• 1:08:51
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, yeah, it's…
• 1:08:52
  Tad Eggleston: Because… because it's like Lord of the Flies, to begin with…
• 1:08:57
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:08:58
  Tad Eggleston: And therefore, you're that much likely… less likely to have any allies. Yeah. And most of the time, it's small enough
• 1:09:06
  Tad Eggleston: That you might be the only one, or if you're not the.
• 1:09:09
  andrewcoltrin: the only…
• 1:09:09
  Tad Eggleston: one, you're the only one with your particular group of… Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  andrewcoltrin: Light. But see…
• 1:09:15
  Tad Eggleston: Stuff, so you can't find your…
• 1:09:18
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:09:19
  Tad Eggleston: Click.
• 1:09:20
  andrewcoltrin: Luckily, I only had to go to middle school for 2 years, though, because…
• 1:09:23
  andrewcoltrin: It had just changed over from the junior high model, so I only had to go for 7th and 8th grade. So while 7th grade sucked.
• 1:09:31
  andrewcoltrin: In 8th grade.
• 1:09:33
  andrewcoltrin: The incoming crop of 7th graders, there were a few kids who'd gone to my same elementary school, and they were into comics, too.
• 1:09:41
  andrewcoltrin: But not only that, like.
• 1:09:43
  andrewcoltrin: one of their older brother, he's actually an actor now, John Proudstar, who was,
• 1:09:49
  andrewcoltrin: you know, he played, one of the dads on, Reservation Dogs, and he's been in a lot of stuff. But his younger brother was, like, one of these kids, and so John…
• 1:09:58
  andrewcoltrin: When he was in high school, he was really into the X-Men, and it really…
• 1:10:02
  Tad Eggleston: bird?
• 1:10:04
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, he took his name from Thunderbird. He did.
• 1:10:06
  Tad Eggleston: He took a.
• 1:10:07
  andrewcoltrin: His, his, his, his actor name, like… Yes.
• 1:10:12
  andrewcoltrin: I'm not gonna say his dead name, but I mean, it's… I don't know his dead name, but he goes by John Proudstar, that's…
• 1:10:18
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, that's his identity, but, yeah. But he… yeah, his, like, mission was, I need to…
• 1:10:25
  Tad Eggleston: That's what… if you put… you have to add actor before you… Actor.
• 1:10:30
  andrewcoltrin: John Proud Star, yeah.
• 1:10:32
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, oh, oh, and also, he dropped the, he dropped the H.
• 1:10:37
  andrewcoltrin: You dropped the H.
• 1:10:38
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  Tad Eggleston: To be the actor.
• 1:10:40
  andrewcoltrin: It's a different guy. But anyway, he.
• 1:10:43
  Tad Eggleston: I just… I looked up John Proudstar, and I only got…
• 1:10:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yo, oh no, okay.
• 1:10:48
  Tad Eggleston: Economically character.
• 1:10:49
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, no, yeah, exactly, but he did…
• 1:10:52
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, Thunderbird, who appeared in one…
• 1:10:53
  Tad Eggleston: It just made it make all the more sense.
• 1:10:55
  andrewcoltrin: One issue of X-Men.
• 1:10:57
  Tad Eggleston: Andrew had the imaginary friend named John Proudstar.
• 1:11:00
  andrewcoltrin: No, he was a real guy.
• 1:11:03
  andrewcoltrin: He was… he was Lou Diamond Phillips' stunt double in Young Guns 2, but, anyway.
• 1:11:10
  andrewcoltrin: That was, like, while I was in high school, but anyway, his younger brother…
• 1:11:12
  Tad Eggleston: Listed as in Young Guns, too.
• 1:11:15
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, yeah, he also… I did some… yeah, yep.
• 1:11:18
  andrewcoltrin: some, playing natives in the background and all that. But, he,
• 1:11:24
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, no, he was like, I need to, like, collect the mutants.
• 1:11:28
  andrewcoltrin: And, like, that was, like, the thing, is the mutants need to be united. And he, like, sort of got his younger brother and his younger brother's friend into this. Like, so… they were like, you're a mutant, you need to join us!
• 1:11:41
  andrewcoltrin: So this little X-Men clique, and, like, I wasn't reading superhero comics, but because they took me in, I was like, alright, guys, I'll read it. And so I got into, like, you know, this is, like, right in the middle of the Claremont Run, and… or, like, at the height of it.
• 1:11:55
  ZuZu: It's time to get.
• 1:11:55
  andrewcoltrin: It was, like, really… yeah, it was… yeah, so, like, getting steeped in all this stuff, and it's like, yes, I'm in mute, and I found my people, you know, and, like, so…
• 1:12:05
  andrewcoltrin: Anyway, yeah, that's part of my comics biography. And so those guys were… were pretty,
• 1:12:13
  andrewcoltrin: They probably, you know, kept me from becoming super depressed and isolated by being like, oh yeah, there's others out here, so…
• 1:12:21
  andrewcoltrin: Any… I think that's that… that spirit of that has carried me forward to here.
• 1:12:27
  andrewcoltrin: like, that's, like, that's why I wanted to make this, this anthology, that's why I wanted to reach out to other neurodivergent people and be like, no, we gotta, like, kind of band together. We don't have to be the same as each other, because there is a lot of, like, clickiness within different neurodiversity groups, but I'm like, no, we can…
• 1:12:44
  Tad Eggleston: I really do think that that's one of the reasons that we have so much trouble getting what we need.
• 1:12:55
  Tad Eggleston: From a governmental standpoint, is, like.
• 1:12:58
  Tad Eggleston: If you look at neurodifficult people, there are two kinds. Think in words, think in pictures.
• 1:13:03
  Tad Eggleston: Look at neurodivergent people, they're like…
• 1:13:08
  Tad Eggleston: Well, let's assume that only 40% of the population is neurodifficult, because I think that that's actually closer to what it is. So you've got, what, 9 billion people on Earth, so 5.4 billion neurodiverse
• 1:13:21
  Tad Eggleston: people, and I think they come in 5.4 billion varieties.
• 1:13:25
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:13:26
  Tad Eggleston: Makes it kind of hard to put together a specific boating block.
• 1:13:32
  Tad Eggleston: There's actually a little bit of science to back this up, too, because, like.
• 1:13:36
  Tad Eggleston: Neurodivergent people, like, they do the brain scans, and we have…
• 1:13:41
  Tad Eggleston: different areas that have stronger connections and different areas that have weaker connections than a neurotypical brain. But while neurotypical brains are incredibly similar to each other, it's really hard to find two brain scans of neurodivergent people that are anywhere at all similar to each other.
• 1:13:59
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, yeah, it's…
• 1:14:00
  ZuZu: That's wild.
• 1:14:01
  andrewcoltrin: It's…
• 1:14:01
  Tad Eggleston: That's true.
• 1:14:02
  andrewcoltrin: True, it's like, the… Yeah, it is wild.
• 1:14:06
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, how many neurodivergent people need quiet to work?
• 1:14:11
  andrewcoltrin: I can't…
• 1:14:12
  Tad Eggleston: do most work with quiet.
• 1:14:14
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, right. Yeah, there's… it's like the… there are not one universal.
• 1:14:19
  Tad Eggleston: The brain moves on too many levels. I need…
• 1:14:22
  Tad Eggleston: I need, like… I'm even one where, like, if the writing's not hard, like, if I'm doing academic writing, I don't just need music in my ears, I need music with words in my ears. Most writers don't like music with words in, like…
• 1:14:37
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  Tad Eggleston: Forcing myself to write dumb shit.
• 1:14:42
  Tad Eggleston: I need to be singing along to something.
• 1:14:45
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, besides…
• 1:14:45
  ZuZu: Sometimes I'll work it into the paper.
• 1:14:47
  Tad Eggleston: too.
• 1:14:49
  andrewcoltrin: Wild.
• 1:14:49
  ZuZu: Interesting. Yeah, like, it needs to be… it does… I can tell you it needs to be 200 BPM+, but it cannot have lyrics.
• 1:14:59
  Tad Eggleston: No, if I'm doing, like, creative writing, it's gotta be…
• 1:15:03
  Tad Eggleston: I don't have a BPM, because it depends on my mood.
• 1:15:06
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Tad Eggleston: Like, sometimes… sometimes, like, slow piano jazz, and sometimes…
• 1:15:12
  ZuZu: like…
• 1:15:15
  Tad Eggleston: punk rock.
• 1:15:16
  andrewcoltrin: God, there…
• 1:15:17
  ZuZu: And that…
• 1:15:17
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes.
• 1:15:18
  andrewcoltrin: That's your bipolar thread, yeah.
• 1:15:20
  Tad Eggleston: If I choose the right one, that can even have lyrics, because I can't understand them.
• 1:15:24
  Tad Eggleston: They might have.
• 1:15:25
  ZuZu: Yeah, depending on where you're…
• 1:15:26
  Tad Eggleston: Coming from… Yeah, no.
• 1:15:31
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, a lot of descendants I can write to.
• 1:15:35
  ZuZu: I didn't.
• 1:15:35
  Tad Eggleston: I know the words, but you don't always make them out as they're coming at you.
• 1:15:40
  ZuZu: I was gonna say, depending on whether or not you've listened to a remastered version, It's kind of…
• 1:15:44
  Tad Eggleston: Or read the lyrics as you go.
• 1:15:46
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:47
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah, liner notes. Oh my gosh, I miss those.
• 1:15:51
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:15:52
  Tad Eggleston: I love liner notes.
• 1:15:54
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:15:55
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, this is… this is my last rabbit hole before I ask the closing question. Okay. I'm a huge Pearl Jam fan, I think I mentioned this to Andrew before.
• 1:16:03
  Tad Eggleston: The… they recently put out
• 1:16:09
  Tad Eggleston: CD of their Budicon concert from 2003.
• 1:16:14
  Tad Eggleston: And they went full-on with all the packaging. So, like, I don't know… Zuzu, are you old enough to have, like, seen Japanese bootlegs in stores, and, like, the extra paper along the side with the stuff? So, like, full-on…
• 1:16:30
  ZuZu: A handful of times.
• 1:16:31
  andrewcoltrin: Okay.
• 1:16:32
  Tad Eggleston: Full-on looks like the bootleg.
• 1:16:35
  Tad Eggleston: you know, where it's got… or not the bootleg, the import, where it's got the stuff on the side. It has individual, like, cellophane-ish sleeves for the CDs to go in it.
• 1:16:48
  Tad Eggleston: Rather than just putting it in it. And it has liner notes that, despite the fact that it's a live album, have all of the lyrics to all of the songs in both English and Japanese.
• 1:17:01
  ZuZu: Fun. Okay. Yeah. That's a lot of work.
• 1:17:04
  Tad Eggleston: I'm just like…
• 1:17:06
  Tad Eggleston: They went all out on this. I'm so happy I bought it. I bought it just because…
• 1:17:12
  Tad Eggleston: it looked like a great show, but… and it is, it's a fantastic show, but they went all out on this.
• 1:17:20
  ZuZu: They included all that detail.
• 1:17:22
  Tad Eggleston: I actually… I was at… there's… okay, I promise this is the actual last rabbit hole before I.
• 1:17:28
  ZuZu: Pass.
• 1:17:29
  andrewcoltrin: Alright.
• 1:17:30
  Tad Eggleston: It was at the outlet mall, and they… Bandai actually has a store at the Gurney Outlet Mall with a bunch of…
• 1:17:37
  Tad Eggleston: Of, like, egg machines, the way.
• 1:17:40
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, yeah.
• 1:17:41
  Tad Eggleston: Japan has… And… and my wife and I both, both…
• 1:17:45
  Tad Eggleston: you know, got eggs with… with stuff, and what we both noticed was, like, the ridiculous attention to detail on these little things. So I now have a working theory that because
• 1:17:56
  Tad Eggleston: Japan definitely has a huge pop culture.
• 1:18:04
  Tad Eggleston: what's the word I'm looking for?
• 1:18:06
  Tad Eggleston: I was gonna say pop culture, culture, but that doesn't make sense.
• 1:18:09
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, it's…
• 1:18:10
  Tad Eggleston: You guys know what I'm talking about.
• 1:18:11
  andrewcoltrin: I know what you're talking about, yeah.
• 1:18:12
  andrewcoltrin: They're pop culture forward.
• 1:18:15
  Tad Eggleston: But… Also, supremely limited space.
• 1:18:23
  Tad Eggleston: That… that means that they're more willing to spend a little bit more to have the high-quality small thing.
• 1:18:31
  Tad Eggleston: But the high-quality small thing… er, the quality probably matters on the small thing as much as the price. Because, like, they can't have a billion big action figures. They can have a dozen small ones. That's what they've got.
• 1:18:47
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:18:48
  Tad Eggleston: Whoa.
• 1:18:49
  Tad Eggleston: So they gotta be good.
• 1:18:52
  Tad Eggleston: That's my theory, anyway.
• 1:18:54
  Tad Eggleston: Also, probably why Japan has the Shohei Ohtani action figure that I desperately want, but it's, like, $300.
• 1:19:03
  ZuZu: Yeah, I was never a figure person.
• 1:19:06
  ZuZu: They're one of my fidgets.
• 1:19:08
  andrewcoltrin: You're lucky.
• 1:19:09
  Tad Eggleston: one of my fidgets, and I even.
• 1:19:11
  ZuZu: Have them play baseball.
• 1:19:11
  Tad Eggleston: on a regular basis, which is why having the actual poseable baseball action figure would be amazing. Particularly because it was designed to both pitch and hit, as Shohei does.
• 1:19:23
  ZuZu: That's cool. Yeah, wow. Yeah, anything with, like, that amount of articulation is always very neat to me.
• 1:19:29
  Tad Eggleston: Exactly.
• 1:19:29
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:19:30
  Tad Eggleston: Boyness.
• 1:19:30
  ZuZu: We would.
• 1:19:31
  Tad Eggleston: dollars.
• 1:19:32
  ZuZu: Yeah, no, my favorite part of working in a comic shop, because I… figures are cool, and I just have never had the money or attention span to, like, dive into all of that, but it was always really fun when we would get, like, a new display piece for the shop, because we'd be like, oh, it's time to play Legos and set up this hot toy that I don't have to pay for.
• 1:19:51
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right, right, that makes sense. I like that. Alright, Andrew knows what's coming next. We got closing questions here.
• 1:19:58
  Tad Eggleston: The first closing question, the new closing question, the year 5 closing question.
• 1:20:04
  Tad Eggleston: I've been doing this podcast for a little less than 5 years now.
• 1:20:08
  Tad Eggleston: And my… my life has, like, entered the Twilight Zone. The conversations I get to have, the people who are my friends now, the things I've gotten to do… I mean, I… I ran panels at C2E2. We talked about, like, C2E2 being a great con. I… I… I… I… me, little… little…
• 1:20:27
  Tad Eggleston: Dorky me, more panels at C2E2 this year.
• 1:20:32
  ZuZu: Nice.
• 1:20:32
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I had… I had…
• 1:20:35
  Tad Eggleston: I think 4… maybe… no, I had 5 Eisner winners.
• 1:20:40
  Tad Eggleston: Involved in those panels.
• 1:20:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no.
• 1:20:44
  ZuZu: Nice.
• 1:20:45
  Tad Eggleston: Including the, the, the, the reigning best… Best ongoing series.
• 1:20:52
  Tad Eggleston: Shout out to Santos Sisters, Greg and Fake.
• 1:20:55
  Tad Eggleston: Who managed to beat out all the stuff from Marvel and DC for…
• 1:21:00
  Tad Eggleston: Best ongoing last year.
• 1:21:02
  ZuZu: Here's to beating Marvel and DC.
• 1:21:03
  andrewcoltrin: Nice.
• 1:21:04
  Tad Eggleston: Well, like, it was weird, because some of my… some of my good friends… like, I… I can't vote in awards anymore, I have too many friends.
• 1:21:13
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:21:14
  Tad Eggleston: given category, it's like, even as I was rooting for… for… for…
• 1:21:18
  Tad Eggleston: for Greg and Fake, it's like, Tom King's up, and not only have I loved Tom King longer, Tom King's… we're friendly now. I don't know if I can go all the way to saying he's a friend, but we're…
• 1:21:29
  Tad Eggleston: edging that way, and like… Chris Cantwell's up in a different case, he's definitely a friend, and…
• 1:21:37
  ZuZu: Yeah, the Eisners are such an interesting set of awards, because it's not, you know, you look at, I don't know, the Oscars and Emmys and stuff, there's always stuff, like, why the heck did this make it up here? What is that? No one's heard of that. And the Eisners are always like, well, these are all great, like, I don't…
• 1:21:49
  Tad Eggleston: Right. It's like, A, how do you compare these?
• 1:21:53
  ZuZu: Well, that too, yeah.
• 1:21:54
  Tad Eggleston: And B, like, are you sure they can't all win?
• 1:22:01
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:22:02
  Tad Eggleston: But I have the same trouble with the Ringos and the Harveys. It's like, but… but that one's good, and that one's good, and that one's good, and that one's good AND they're my friend, and that one's good AND they're my friend.
• 1:22:13
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah…
• 1:22:14
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, there was a point when I was, you know, just breaking into the comic scene that I was just… it was easy. It was like, oh, this one's good, I know this person, great, perfect, vote. And now it's like, well…
• 1:22:27
  Tad Eggleston: I went to dinner with him, I went to a ballgame with her, and they're up against each other.
• 1:22:34
  Tad Eggleston: And if I'm being completely honest, I think this third one from the person that I haven't met yet might be the best of the bunch.
• 1:22:45
  Tad Eggleston: And I think that my friends might agree.
• 1:22:48
  ZuZu: Yeah, let's say I think comics… well, in general, comics people are, like, usually really nice. So yeah, so, like, you ask them about each other, and it's always like, oh, this person's great, I can't even believe I'm in the same category as them, like…
• 1:23:04
  Tad Eggleston: No, I remember talking to Kelly Thompson right after she was nominated for… for 5 awards
• 1:23:11
  Tad Eggleston: in one year for the first time. She's had that happen a couple of times. Yeah. And she's like, yeah, I'm not gonna win any of them. And I'm like, you're not gonna win any of them? And she's like, look who I'm up against! I wouldn't vote for me!
• 1:23:23
  andrewcoltrin: The cartoonists are so humble.
• 1:23:25
  Tad Eggleston: It's like…
• 1:23:26
  ZuZu: Oh.
• 1:23:27
  Tad Eggleston: I think she did manage to…
• 1:23:32
  ZuZu: Nope, did he freeze?
• 1:23:34
  andrewcoltrin: -Oh, I think so. Chad, we lost ya.
• 1:23:38
  Tad Eggleston: Everybody in comics has this… This set of, like, surreal experiences and stories to tell.
• 1:23:47
  Tad Eggleston: Once they've spent any time in the business whatsoever. So I've started collecting them. Zuzu, tell me a…
• 1:23:53
  Tad Eggleston: A surreal, pinch-yourself, oh my god, that happened to me.
• 1:24:00
  Tad Eggleston: Experience that you've had that you wouldn't have had if comics wasn't the thing that you did.
• 1:24:08
  ZuZu: There's a lot of good ones!
• 1:24:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well, you just have to come back and tell a different one every time.
• 1:24:15
  ZuZu: Okay.
• 1:24:15
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, if you want to sh… I mean, people have also shared more than one, but we're running up on time, and you were the one that needed to run.
• 1:24:22
  ZuZu: That's true, that's true. I guess, I think one of the more heartwarming ones is I, I followed Aaron Alexevich and his webcomic, Serenity Rose, I think since I was, like, 15? Maybe 14?
• 1:24:35
  ZuZu: And Aaron's gone on to do a ton of work beyond Serenity Rose at this point. And, like, the first interaction I ever had with him was requesting a print, for my birthday that, like, my aunt or my godmother ended up getting me.
• 1:24:51
  ZuZu: And then, by the time I was, like, more, you know, I don't know, regularly doing comics as a professional, I was actually able to, like, meet him and run into him.
• 1:25:00
  ZuZu: And then it happened 4 or 5 times, to the point where, like, we would be at the, you know, the Sheraton afterwards, where everyone, like, hangs out after the con, and, like, you know, we'd kind of, like, give each other a little nod, or, like, he'd wave to me from his booth or something. I was like, oh, this is…
• 1:25:14
  ZuZu: This is wild! Like, I did meet my… they always say they'd never meet your heroes or whatever, and it was like, yeah, no, I did meet this guy who I had followed for years and years, and he was great. And yeah, it's always been, like, just these really warm conversations every time I've run into him. I have not seen him, I think, at this point in, like, 6 or 7 years.
• 1:25:32
  ZuZu: But, yeah, it's just, it's always been lovely. And it's weird being lovely with someone who you've admired from, like, being a tiny, tiny kid. Oh, totally it is.
• 1:25:41
  Tad Eggleston: It is…
• 1:25:42
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:25:43
  Tad Eggleston: Totally weird.
• 1:25:46
  Tad Eggleston: Though, I will say, sometimes it's weirder when you become really good friends with somebody that you hadn't previously known their most expen- er, their, like, most well-known work.
• 1:25:57
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, people… you're talking about your friend, and they're like, you mean the guy that did this? And it's like, oh god, I really need to go watch that now, don't I?
• 1:26:06
  ZuZu: Yeah, well, that's, like, the… I will say there's part of that, is, you know, because of the… I do reference having, had a big crash-out, burnout, cycle in, like, 2019, 2020. So there is part of that, is that, like, there are people who I'm like, oh yeah, this person's great, and then I'm like, oh, you know, A, in today's…
• 1:26:25
  ZuZu: internet economy, it's like, oh, this person's still great, I hope they're still great. And then also, like, what are they doing these days? I haven't read their work in 5 years. Right. Yeah, it's a weird place to be, to be, like, coming back into the scene and be like, oh, hi, like, I've missed half of you, I just… sorry, I haven't answered an email in 4 years.
• 1:26:46
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, Andrew.
• 1:26:49
  andrewcoltrin: Alright.
• 1:26:50
  andrewcoltrin: A surreal, comics thing, like… I got another one.
• 1:26:56
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, so… My life… I haven't mentioned it before?
• 1:27:04
  Tad Eggleston: Portland, so.
• 1:27:04
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, look at Portland.
• 1:27:05
  Tad Eggleston: went to coffee.
• 1:27:06
  andrewcoltrin: I went to coffee, and…
• 1:27:08
  Tad Eggleston: And, and I overheard…
• 1:27:10
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:27:11
  andrewcoltrin: I've never heard somebody talking… yeah, I know. I was…
• 1:27:14
  Tad Eggleston: There, when Chip and Matt came up with sex criminals, they just…
• 1:27:17
  ZuZu: Didn't know it.
• 1:27:18
  andrewcoltrin: They just…
• 1:27:20
  ZuZu: I sneezed in Portland.
• 1:27:21
  andrewcoltrin: The only idea for me, because I was…
• 1:27:23
  ZuZu: We're semi-random.
• 1:27:24
  andrewcoltrin: crap in the coffee shop. No,
• 1:27:27
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, actually, this one is, yeah, I, right, so…
• 1:27:33
  andrewcoltrin: I met my wife in Portland, she's…
• 1:27:41
  andrewcoltrin: She's not a comic book person. It's fine.
• 1:27:43
  Tad Eggleston: I was about to say, you're about to tell.
• 1:27:44
  ZuZu: Wow, you found the one…
• 1:27:45
  Tad Eggleston: summer cars.
• 1:27:47
  andrewcoltrin: No, she's not.
• 1:27:48
  Tad Eggleston: If you're married to an Eisner Hall of Famer and didn't…
• 1:27:52
  andrewcoltrin: I injured that bite No, but then, like, our relationship… and then I go, and I meet…
• 1:27:58
  andrewcoltrin: you know, the first time I go back to California with her to meet the family at a Christmastime thing, and it's kind of a big deal, and then that's sort of… and she's like, yeah, like, my uncle, like, married, you know, his father-in-law is, like, this cartoonist, and then I go to her grandparents' house, and…
• 1:28:15
  andrewcoltrin: There's frickin'… Bill Keene, Family Circus, originals on the wall, because…
• 1:28:23
  andrewcoltrin: Her uncle was married to Bill Keene's daughter, and I was like, oh.
• 1:28:28
  andrewcoltrin: I've…
• 1:28:30
  andrewcoltrin: I'm married into a comics dynasty, but I… I haven't figured out how to really leverage that into anything, and…
• 1:28:38
  andrewcoltrin: But, I mean, her uncle, her uncle passed away last year, and, like, I'm like, oh, okay, so…
• 1:28:45
  andrewcoltrin: It's like… It's not…
• 1:28:47
  Tad Eggleston: opportunity.
• 1:28:47
  andrewcoltrin: Not the time to be like… And Jeff…
• 1:28:52
  andrewcoltrin: Plug my Kickstarter. I mentioned one time.
• 1:28:56
  ZuZu: Oh, brother.
• 1:28:57
  andrewcoltrin: No, that's sad. That's too sad, I'm sorry.
• 1:29:00
  ZuZu: Yeah, it's really sad.
• 1:29:03
  andrewcoltrin: Really sad, but anyway, they don't…
• 1:29:06
  ZuZu: It's very cool to be, like, walking into a house, then like, oh, suddenly these things are here.
• 1:29:12
  andrewcoltrin: Wait, wait, wait, and then be like, oh yeah, it's like…
• 1:29:16
  andrewcoltrin: It's not just any cartoon, family frickin' Circle. Anyway… Or Family Circus, yeah.
• 1:29:23
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, the magazine sued me, I had to change the name, but anyway. That's like the day… Well, it's more of a cease and desist, I think, but…
• 1:29:31
  Tad Eggleston: That's… that's… that's the Dave Grohl story about, like, recording the first Foo Fighters album at a…
• 1:29:38
  Tad Eggleston: at a studio in Vancouver.
• 1:29:42
  Tad Eggleston: and, like, a home studio in Vancouver, and, like, going to the bathroom and seeing all of these pictures of Bryan Adams on the wall, and coming back and going…
• 1:29:51
  andrewcoltrin: Stone.
• 1:29:52
  Tad Eggleston: going, whoever lives here, they're really into Bryan Adams and having
• 1:29:56
  Tad Eggleston: Studio Tech go. This is Bryan Adams' house. Amazing.
• 1:30:03
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:30:03
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  andrewcoltrin: That was maybe a little bit more surreal in that case, but…
• 1:30:09
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:11
  Tad Eggleston: It wasn't related, he was just recording there.
• 1:30:12
  andrewcoltrin: We're just recording, yeah, that's true.
• 1:30:15
  andrewcoltrin: True, I've got.
• 1:30:15
  Tad Eggleston: Man.
• 1:30:16
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:30:17
  Tad Eggleston: you're.
• 1:30:18
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:30:19
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, by marriage. Yeah.
• 1:30:24
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, closing question. Tell me something you love.
• 1:30:28
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably a comic, but we don't really have rules.
• 1:30:32
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably storytelling, but again, with the rules. But something that you love.
• 1:30:38
  Tad Eggleston: That not enough people around you have experienced, and you would really, really like them to, so you have more people
• 1:30:46
  Tad Eggleston: To talk about it with.
• 1:30:51
  ZuZu: I mean, I'm just gonna plug zines. Sure. Just all zines, all zines forever. Yeah, I…
• 1:30:59
  Tad Eggleston: all zines? Well, this means that you guys need to come to Minneapolis for the insert name.
• 1:31:04
  ZuZu: Minneapolis is an amazing.
• 1:31:05
  Tad Eggleston: comic.
• 1:31:06
  ZuZu: the scene.
• 1:31:06
  andrewcoltrin: best.
• 1:31:07
  ZuZu: They do, they do. I might be able to.
• 1:31:10
  Tad Eggleston: find places for you to stay, but I can't help you get there.
• 1:31:12
  ZuZu: Oh, good, yeah, that… We should talk. Not to… not to commit any of your.
• 1:31:20
  Tad Eggleston: I just, I know the people who run the Zine Fest, and I know.
• 1:31:25
  ZuZu: Oh, fantastic.
• 1:31:26
  Tad Eggleston: people in… Minneapolis. I know I'll be up there.
• 1:31:31
  ZuZu: Yeah, very cool.
• 1:31:32
  Tad Eggleston: also in August.
• 1:31:34
  ZuZu: Yeah, something like that. There's… the zines have two seasons, it's like spring and fall. But yeah, like, I… like, I mean, there's so many reasons I burned out from, like, mainstream comics. But, like, I remember at one point.
• 1:31:47
  ZuZu: this was, like, 5 years after the fact that I just… I had this realization. Someone had reviewed my portfolio and, like, could not find
• 1:31:55
  ZuZu: worker writing to critique, and, like, so started diving into the details about, like, the shape of my word balloons, and at the time, I was like, oh, yes, this is important from a professional. And then when I burned out, I was like, fuck that. Like, what are you talking about? So, I kind of…
• 1:32:10
  ZuZu: found my way into Wastedigzine Distro in Arizona. And I've been bummin' around that scene for about 10 years now.
• 1:32:19
  ZuZu: And it is so beautifully refreshing to find people that are all there because they like making things, because they want to trade,
• 1:32:27
  ZuZu: So, yeah, I mean, like, oh my god, there's so many good cartoonists that don't get to be experienced, well, sorry, I say don't get to.
• 1:32:35
  ZuZu: Like, I'm not their frickin' agent, I'm not, like, the only person.
• 1:32:37
  Tad Eggleston: No, no.
• 1:32:38
  ZuZu: discover these people. Right, right. But people who do, you know, who deserve attention and do not get it from the mainstream, Damon and Taylor McGay are both wonderful, Kayla Shaggy's incredible, Theo Quest is amazing, Amy… Amy Liu, there we go. Amy Liu is incredible. These are all cartoonists that are unsung and wonderful people.
• 1:33:00
  Tad Eggleston: Please send me an email with a list.
• 1:33:02
  ZuZu: Okay.
• 1:33:03
  Tad Eggleston: Just because I like to look at websites, if they have them.
• 1:33:07
  ZuZu: Okay, sick.
• 1:33:07
  Tad Eggleston: Digging if they don't.
• 1:33:09
  ZuZu: There's, yeah, there's lots of crate digging opportunities, I know for sure.
• 1:33:12
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, and Arizona does have a, isn't Evan Salazar down there, too, or is he in New Mexico?
• 1:33:19
  ZuZu: I'm not sure, I don't know that name.
• 1:33:22
  Tad Eggleston: He actually, he won the… the Emerging Artist… at CXC… 4 years ago?
• 1:33:30
  ZuZu: Awesome! That's rodeo.
• 1:33:31
  Tad Eggleston: comics?
• 1:33:32
  ZuZu: Oh, very cool, yeah, I have to check that out. I don't know.
• 1:33:35
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:33:36
  Tad Eggleston: Let me… I haven't seen anything new from him in a while.
• 1:33:40
  ZuZu: Mmm.
• 1:33:42
  Tad Eggleston: And every time I see him, he remembers me, and every time I email him, I never get a… he's in Tucson, Arizona.
• 1:33:47
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, Tucson.
• 1:33:48
  ZuZu: Yeah, there's a lot… there's a good scene down in Tucson, yeah, because I'm up in Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's the Tucson event. There's, like, a couple of different, zine events or Comic-Cons or whatever down there, and there's… they always have great turnout.
• 1:34:03
  andrewcoltrin: I know, I… I'm from Tucson, from back when the zine scene was, like, me and my friend Vern.
• 1:34:09
  ZuZu: I'm like, it's grown so much.
• 1:34:12
  andrewcoltrin: I know, it's like, I was like, wait a minute, where were you, like, 20 years ago? Yeah, but…
• 1:34:17
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:18
  andrewcoltrin: So it's really cool.
• 1:34:20
  ZuZu: Yeah, and like, that's such a big thing, the cuisine scene is so precious to me, because we didn't have anything like that. Like, I remember going to Wasted Ink's opening night and.
• 1:34:28
  andrewcoltrin: England.
• 1:34:28
  ZuZu: oh my god, here you all are! I've been looking for you. Yeah.
• 1:34:32
  andrewcoltrin: No, wasted in… I… yeah, I know, that's one of, like, the early distros that I reached out to, and, like, I've, like, still
• 1:34:38
  andrewcoltrin: relationship, and I'm like, oh, amazing, I'm like… Keep going, yeah!
• 1:34:43
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:34:44
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:34:44
  ZuZu: Yeah, it's very cool. It's been a scrappy journey with Ways Today, and we're doing a great job. They have moved, yeah.
• 1:34:50
  Tad Eggleston: Moved to 3.
• 1:34:51
  ZuZu: 2020.
• 1:34:52
  Tad Eggleston: 3 West McDowell Road.
• 1:34:54
  andrewcoltrin: And that's, yeah, there's…
• 1:34:56
  Tad Eggleston: Thumbs up if you go to their website.
• 1:34:58
  andrewcoltrin: They're.
• 1:34:58
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, there's a pop-up.
• 1:35:00
  andrewcoltrin: The local, pickup options for the… for the, anthology for Kickstarter.
• 1:35:07
  andrewcoltrin: And then, I mean, I'm certain they'll have copies for sale there after… Because…
• 1:35:12
  Tad Eggleston: No, Chicago just had a, actually, Daria works there, a place called, Sheepcult Comics.
• 1:35:20
  ZuZu: Very cool.
• 1:35:21
  Tad Eggleston: to have.
• 1:35:22
  Tad Eggleston: Have that, that feel.
• 1:35:25
  ZuZu: Yeah, I feel like a lot of bigger cities have more varied, like, independent, or, like, comic shops that focus on not Marvel, DC, Magic the Gathering.
• 1:35:34
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:35:34
  ZuZu: I think here, locally, the only one I know of is Ash Avenue Comics, and I have not encountered another comic shop that.
• 1:35:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right. No, no, I get it.
• 1:35:43
  ZuZu: in that way.
• 1:35:44
  Tad Eggleston: I totally get it. Well, and like, I can name two other places that have zines, but why I brought up the sheep cult is it's the smaller place that's almost exclusively zines and has.
• 1:35:55
  ZuZu: A handful.
• 1:35:56
  Tad Eggleston: Of small press stuff.
• 1:35:59
  Tad Eggleston: with it.
• 1:36:00
  ZuZu: Oh, that's exciting.
• 1:36:01
  Tad Eggleston: Whereas… whereas, like, if you go to Howling Pages, or… Or,
• 1:36:09
  Tad Eggleston: Lion's Tooth up in Milwaukee, they've got a strong zine selection, but they're also… A strong, small press…
• 1:36:20
  Tad Eggleston: Small press, bigger independent… Howling Pages does, does, like.
• 1:36:32
  Tad Eggleston: prose, but of an activist bent, or not Howling Pages, Lion's Tooth does prose, but of an activist bent, and Howling Pages does a lot of international. So, like, they're not your… they're not your Wednesday comic shops, but… Yeah.
• 1:36:48
  ZuZu: But there's.
• 1:36:49
  Tad Eggleston: still bigger than just Zines.
• 1:36:52
  Tad Eggleston: Where…
• 1:36:52
  ZuZu: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:36:54
  Tad Eggleston: Shape Cult, and ironically, pow… or, Quimby's in Chicago.
• 1:37:01
  andrewcoltrin: Home is…
• 1:37:01
  Tad Eggleston: The oldest in terms of.
• 1:37:03
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah.
• 1:37:03
  Tad Eggleston: type of shore. And ironically, and I think actually not not unwisely, Sheep Cult is…
• 1:37:16
  Tad Eggleston: located right between Challengers Comics and Conversation and Quimby's.
• 1:37:21
  andrewcoltrin: Okay.
• 1:37:21
  ZuZu: Oh, nice.
• 1:37:22
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, a 15-minute walk will take you to all.
• 1:37:25
  andrewcoltrin: All three of them. Oh, wow.
• 1:37:26
  ZuZu: Oh, you…
• 1:37:27
  andrewcoltrin: Which is true.
• 1:37:27
  ZuZu: Sure. Yeah, buy a bunch of stuff all at once. With a bunch of good food options.
• 1:37:33
  andrewcoltrin: Oh, it's…
• 1:37:33
  Tad Eggleston: boot.
• 1:37:34
  ZuZu: Mmm.
• 1:37:35
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, like…
• 1:37:37
  andrewcoltrin: Give me food.
• 1:37:37
  Tad Eggleston: 5 minutes another direction, you've got myopic, which is one of the better.
• 1:37:41
  ZuZu: Yep.
• 1:37:41
  Tad Eggleston: bookstores in the country.
• 1:37:43
  ZuZu: I've been to Myopic and Quimby, yeah.
• 1:37:45
  Tad Eggleston: And if you need it, there's a Barnes & Noble in the neighborhood, too.
• 1:37:49
  ZuZu: But no one needs it. I mean…
• 1:37:51
  Tad Eggleston: No, but you know what? It brings people that are interested in books who then, like, will discover, oh, you've got these other three, four. I was actually talking with the sheep cult owners about that when I was down there.
• 1:38:06
  Tad Eggleston: Because, again, on one side, it's like this interesting… decision.
• 1:38:12
  ZuZu: me.
• 1:38:13
  Tad Eggleston: Where there are comics.
• 1:38:16
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, Challengers does more…
• 1:38:20
  Tad Eggleston: consignment than most shops, and they would do more, except for the fact that they know how close they are to Quimby's, and Quimby's has that scene so quartered.
• 1:38:30
  ZuZu: That, like.
• 1:38:31
  Tad Eggleston: Like, they don't want to lie to you and tell you that you should have your book here rather than walking down the street.
• 1:38:37
  ZuZu: I'm getting it there.
• 1:38:38
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so they kind of pick specifically what they carry in terms of rent.
• 1:38:44
  Tad Eggleston: But they're, they're,
• 1:38:47
  Tad Eggleston: a graphic novel and… and youth-oriented, you know, they have a whole separate room that's YA and children's books.
• 1:38:56
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so they've got their share of floppies, but they don't do back issues.
• 1:39:01
  Tad Eggleston: Except, like… Half off.
• 1:39:04
  andrewcoltrin: You need to get.
• 1:39:04
  Tad Eggleston: I'm out of here.
• 1:39:06
  Tad Eggleston: there's no more room on the shelf, new back issues, you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 1:39:10
  Tad Eggleston: They don't have the sign-up that says, we buy comics. They absolutely do not buy comics.
• 1:39:14
  andrewcoltrin: Don't make hoc.
• 1:39:15
  ZuZu: Not from you.
• 1:39:16
  Tad Eggleston: Only from distributors.
• 1:39:19
  Tad Eggleston: Well, actually, possibly from you, because they do consignment, but…
• 1:39:23
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:25
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:39:27
  andrewcoltrin: Alright.
• 1:39:28
  Tad Eggleston: That's what I think when I look at the wasted… The, the, the wasted… Inc.
• 1:39:33
  ZuZu: Yeah, yeah, you can sign, if you have… I mean, so it's… I think it's…
• 1:39:37
  ZuZu: semi-narrow in terms of, like, how they define, like, what a zine is. Like, you couldn't turn in a graphic novel.
• 1:39:47
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no.
• 1:39:48
  ZuZu: Although, actually, like, if you're… if you have a graphic novel, and you're the only person who made it, and it's… you're not turning in X-Men, is what I'm saying, is actually what I'm trying to say. Yeah, but no, but anything that's independent, we've had, stuff come in from Japan a couple times, we've had, I want to say Belgium?
• 1:40:04
  ZuZu: We had some… we have another con… I don't work in the shop itself. I just help with some… some, interstitials here.
• 1:40:11
  Tad Eggleston: It just feels like…
• 1:40:12
  ZuZu: But.
• 1:40:12
  Tad Eggleston: Because you're there so often.
• 1:40:14
  ZuZu: I do, I do, I do, I kind of default to being like, oh, we do all these things. I'm like, actually, I don't have any details, and I'm talking out my ass.
• 1:40:20
  andrewcoltrin: Hey!
• 1:40:21
  ZuZu: We have had international people there, we've also had a crap ton of local creators, ton of informational stuff, so if you want to know how to unionize your workplace, or, like, proper,
• 1:40:33
  ZuZu: like, how to, like, bind properly, or, like, a handful of other different, like, resources and stuff are all available there. A's for Autism is there. Shout out to Annie.
• 1:40:44
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:40:45
  ZuZu: It was. It was. I don't know if it still is.
• 1:40:48
  andrewcoltrin: It should be, or… I don't.
• 1:40:51
  ZuZu: I think you're at least in the library, because if we have a single copy of anything.
• 1:40:54
  andrewcoltrin: I'll be in the library, for sure. I, I'm not so good at, like, keeping track of consignments.
• 1:41:00
  andrewcoltrin: And I think… I officially, like…
• 1:41:06
  andrewcoltrin: I've told Wasted Ink that I am not too worried about getting money from them, because I know they gotta pay the bills, so…
• 1:41:16
  ZuZu: Oh, they do have…
• 1:41:17
  Tad Eggleston: I have…
• 1:41:18
  ZuZu: Do you have an accountant?
• 1:41:19
  Tad Eggleston: for a second, because for a second, it looked like it was featured in their main picture, but that's just a different book with similar colors.
• 1:41:27
  andrewcoltrin: Okay, it could be. But if they need more copies, I should get them some, but…
• 1:41:31
  ZuZu: I would have laughed for that.
• 1:41:32
  Tad Eggleston: They are.
• 1:41:33
  ZuZu: Which would let them pay you, because they are tied to a 401C3, but yeah.
• 1:41:38
  andrewcoltrin: I'll let him pay me.
• 1:41:40
  ZuZu: Yeah.
• 1:41:40
  andrewcoltrin: No.
• 1:41:41
  ZuZu: I'll say you.
• 1:41:42
  andrewcoltrin: I will, I will, I'm just…
• 1:41:44
  ZuZu: You take money for your work to compensate!
• 1:41:47
  andrewcoltrin: I will.
• 1:41:48
  ZuZu: Unionize your workplace!
• 1:41:50
  andrewcoltrin: No.
• 1:41:50
  ZuZu: Sorry, I got, I got, I got so far into the podcast, I started to crash out.
• 1:41:54
  andrewcoltrin: The whole leftist propaganda.
• 1:41:56
  ZuZu: Right?
• 1:41:57
  andrewcoltrin: I've got a 2-year-old that wants to hug me, so I probably…
• 1:42:00
  Tad Eggleston: I'm… I'm all for full leftist propaganda.
• 1:42:02
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, but yeah.
• 1:42:04
  Tad Eggleston: Another quick shout-out for, for, Durf Bechterf's upcoming book, which I'll actually name this time when I shout it out.
• 1:42:14
  Tad Eggleston: At least I will if it comes up fast enough on my screen.
• 1:42:22
  Tad Eggleston: Ugh.
• 1:42:25
  Tad Eggleston: stupid.
• 1:42:27
  andrewcoltrin: It's called stupid?
• 1:42:29
  Tad Eggleston: dissidents.
• 1:42:30
  andrewcoltrin: Oh.
• 1:42:30
  Tad Eggleston: by Durf Bechdurf. I don't know when it's coming out, it's coming out soon.
• 1:42:34
  andrewcoltrin: Alright, cool.
• 1:42:35
  Tad Eggleston: that up while… while… while Andrew is telling us what, what he…
• 1:42:39
  andrewcoltrin: Okay, yeah, okay, the thing that I'm loving… okay, so one of our, contributors, So Franz.
• 1:42:48
  andrewcoltrin: who, instagram handle is Bolognafeathers, just…
• 1:42:55
  andrewcoltrin: I love her art, and she needs to do more stuff. She's done some, like, murals around here, and posters for different things, and I think has a couple comics on the…
• 1:43:08
  andrewcoltrin: On their, she's like, Farrell Dollarimble's partner, so they have the same web store.
• 1:43:14
  andrewcoltrin: I think it's, like, Farrell and Soph Comics, but… But… It's really…
• 1:43:23
  andrewcoltrin: Just, I don't know. I love her stuff.
• 1:43:27
  andrewcoltrin: I can't really, I'm out of words, but… Something that people…
• 1:43:31
  Tad Eggleston: sometime.
• 1:43:32
  andrewcoltrin: More people need to know about… yeah, just check out Bologna Feathers on Instagram, or then… Or Kara.
• 1:43:38
  Tad Eggleston: Is that baloney?
• 1:43:41
  Tad Eggleston: Spelled Bologna?
• 1:43:42
  andrewcoltrin: No, no, spelled, spelled Oscar Mayer way. No, or American way. Bologna. B-A-L-O-N-E-Y feathers. Okay.
• 1:43:51
  andrewcoltrin: All one word.
• 1:43:52
  Tad Eggleston: You know, that was how I wrote it down initially, but then it occurred to me that that's not really how it's supposed to be spelled.
• 1:44:01
  andrewcoltrin: Not how it's supposed to be spelled.
• 1:44:04
  andrewcoltrin: You're correct.
• 1:44:05
  andrewcoltrin: Yes, yet again.
• 1:44:07
  andrewcoltrin: You've caught me out on overlooking a certain thing. Yes, John, without an name?
• 1:44:12
  Tad Eggleston: Has a first name.
• 1:44:13
  andrewcoltrin: Bologna… Like, not Oscar Mayer. Yeah, no.
• 1:44:21
  andrewcoltrin: Right on.
• 1:44:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:44:23
  ZuZu: Well, it is how on our…
• 1:44:25
  Tad Eggleston: It is our… how our… our late dog, Salvador Bologna, spelled his…
• 1:44:31
  andrewcoltrin: See? It all comes back. He was the one that…
• 1:44:34
  Tad Eggleston: Loved the… the… the barbecue baked potato chips.
• 1:44:37
  andrewcoltrin: Oh.
• 1:44:38
  Tad Eggleston: That led to our…
• 1:44:42
  andrewcoltrin: Hulk.
• 1:44:43
  andrewcoltrin: Well, it comes full circle.
• 1:44:45
  Tad Eggleston: Nuts!
• 1:44:45
  andrewcoltrin: Barbecue baked banana chips.
• 1:44:48
  andrewcoltrin: Right on.
• 1:44:49
  ZuZu: Excellent.
• 1:44:50
  Tad Eggleston: Nerd Emergencies is… Live, now?
• 1:44:57
  andrewcoltrin: alive.
• 1:44:57
  Tad Eggleston: Kickstarter, go back it.
• 1:45:00
  andrewcoltrin: Exactly.
• 1:45:00
  Tad Eggleston: Twice, back it three times, give them your money, they deserve it.
• 1:45:06
  andrewcoltrin: Yeah, and like…
• 1:45:07
  andrewcoltrin: You know, there's… there's a few, a handful of cool add-ons, but I might add on some more add-ons if, whatever.
• 1:45:15
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, and, like, something… something you might consider…
• 1:45:20
  Tad Eggleston: Well, now I'll talk to you about this off the air. Okay. I want to put it out in the… that there is… there is something that has been done with similar books that I think is a really cool thing to do.
• 1:45:31
  andrewcoltrin: Okay.
• 1:45:32
  Tad Eggleston: But, yeah, for Andrew Coulter and Zuzu, whose anthology, Nerd Emergencies, is live on Kickstarter right now. This has been 22 Panels, and we will see you after the next page.