Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: SHOCKING DEATH of Beloved Teacher, Businesswoman Jackie Glynn

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: SHOCKING DEATH of Beloved Teacher, Businesswoman Jackie Glynn · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Body does, but Joseph's gotten more. My grandfather, who I
0:07
Speaker 1: referred to as papau and interestingly enough, my grandchildren refer
0:14
Speaker 1: to me as Papa, and it's a badge I wear
0:17
Speaker 1: with great pride. I loved both of my grandfathers, but
0:22
Speaker 1: there was one in particular that I spent a lot
0:25
Speaker 1: of time with as a child, and he was a big, big,
0:28
Speaker 1: robust man. He raised horses and mules, farmed, and then
0:35
Speaker 1: worked for the power company. In addition to that, he
0:38
Speaker 1: was always busy doing something. He was a man that
0:44
Speaker 1: was essentially afraid of nothing, at least in my young eyes.
0:50
Speaker 1: But I remember in nineteen eighty three, I hadn't seen
0:54
Speaker 1: my grandfather and I don't know, probably two years, and
1:01
Speaker 1: I went to visit him in his home in the
1:04
Speaker 1: Louisiana and when I did, he was a shell of
1:09
Speaker 1: his former self, metasac brain cancer had literally eaten him alive.
1:19
Speaker 1: He still recognized me, though, and we spent hours talking.
1:26
Speaker 1: Cancer is something that you hate any you hate to
1:31
Speaker 1: see anybody go through, and it's there's this ominous feeling
1:36
Speaker 1: that you get when you get that diagnosis. I've had
1:40
Speaker 1: other members of my family that have died as well
1:43
Speaker 1: from cancer. But just imagine, if you will, a case
1:50
Speaker 1: so sinister that a cancer diagnosis pales when it comes
1:58
Speaker 1: to the truth of what acts actually happened to a
2:01
Speaker 1: woman who was alleged to have had terminal cancer, but
2:05
Speaker 1: yet she disappears off of the face of the planet.
2:11
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks David. You know,
2:18
Speaker 1: I've always thought, I've always had it in the back
2:20
Speaker 1: of my mind. You can call me a conspiracy theorist.
2:23
Speaker 1: I don't care. I've always had in the back of
2:25
Speaker 1: my mind that there is a cure for cancer out there,
2:28
Speaker 1: and it's just it hasn't come about. I think probably
2:33
Speaker 1: for monetary reasons. That's what it comes down to. I
2:36
Speaker 1: don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole.
2:38
Speaker 1: I don't want to get you fired up today, but
2:41
Speaker 1: I see it and I see you know, I've seen
2:43
Speaker 1: the you know, as a death investigator particularly, I've seen
2:47
Speaker 1: the end results. You know. I've had to go to
2:50
Speaker 1: many homes or people have passed away that had cancer
2:54
Speaker 1: and they may have died for other reasons, but they
2:56
Speaker 1: had cancer and there's that withering and it's so sad
2:59
Speaker 1: because it's slow march that goes on. And you know, Dave,
3:05
Speaker 1: it's something when you can actually find a case that
3:09
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today where you know, cancer
3:12
Speaker 1: plays in this diagnoses of cancer plays in to the narrative.
3:17
Speaker 1: But it's, like I said in my opening, this is
3:20
Speaker 1: something even more sinister, I think than cancer.
3:25
Speaker 2: Using cancer as the explanation for where a person has gone,
3:33
Speaker 2: might have gone, why they're missing, because that's what actually happened.
3:37
Speaker 2: Seventy six year old Jackie Glenn is missing, and any
3:41
Speaker 2: person of that age that just goes missing. And in
3:44
Speaker 2: this case, she has children, adult children, she has three
3:47
Speaker 2: grandchildren that call her Yaya, and they want to know
3:51
Speaker 2: where she is. And her husband, who is stepfather to
3:56
Speaker 2: her adult children, tells them, well, she's recently diagnosed with
4:00
Speaker 2: cancer terminal and you know, maybe she just decided to
4:05
Speaker 2: go away. I mean, it was a very flimsy excuse
4:08
Speaker 2: and by the way, easily checkable for those of us
4:14
Speaker 2: which who have a family member or maybe you yourself
4:19
Speaker 2: have suffered from cancer, to use that as this placeholder. Oh,
4:27
Speaker 2: it's just despicable.
4:28
Speaker 1: It's hard, you know, I say, I use this term
4:30
Speaker 1: a lot. It's really hard to plumb the depths of
4:34
Speaker 1: how of how sickening this is. And you talk about verification.
4:42
Speaker 1: In my experience working for a medical examiner's office and
4:47
Speaker 1: we have to deal with cases involving cancer where for
4:52
Speaker 1: any number of reasons, you might be requested by family
4:57
Speaker 1: to do an autopsy and they're they're asking you to
5:00
Speaker 1: examine the body in the post mortem state to see
5:03
Speaker 1: if the diagnosis was accurate. Because I don't know if
5:06
Speaker 1: folks are aware of this. Many times it's very hard
5:09
Speaker 1: for a family to convince a hospital pathologist to do
5:13
Speaker 1: an autopsy. They don't lean into the practice as much
5:18
Speaker 1: as they did at one point in time. And so
5:21
Speaker 1: I've been involved both as an autopsy assistant and as
5:24
Speaker 1: an investigator in cases of cancer. And when you see
5:27
Speaker 1: these ravaged bodies, you know that come before you and
5:31
Speaker 1: you're doing this, and it's as a as an observer
5:36
Speaker 1: first off, as you know, as an employee at a
5:40
Speaker 1: medical examiner's office, you see the pathology that's before you,
5:46
Speaker 1: and you see the progression that has taken place. As
5:50
Speaker 1: a family member that has gone through this, it really
5:56
Speaker 1: it's a real kick in the head if you will,
5:58
Speaker 1: that someone would take this and use it to essentially
6:03
Speaker 1: offer up a reason why this woman would disappear off
6:06
Speaker 1: of the face of the planet. Now, this happened actually
6:09
Speaker 1: up in Nashville. This has been an ongoing case for
6:11
Speaker 1: some time. But you know, thankfully the family has some
6:14
Speaker 1: resolution now. But Dave, here's something I'd like to ask about.
6:18
Speaker 1: I think I think that at some point along the
6:23
Speaker 1: way what they referred to as a silver alert was
6:28
Speaker 1: issued relative to this poor woman. Is that correct.
6:32
Speaker 2: That's what they do with seniors that go missing, and
6:37
Speaker 2: different than an amber alert, And the silver alert is
6:41
Speaker 2: something that we see when it applies to an older
6:44
Speaker 2: person who has gone missing. And in this case, I
6:46
Speaker 2: actually was looking at the terminology. You know, it's to
6:51
Speaker 2: me it's a fairly new one. It could have been
6:53
Speaker 2: around for a long time. I don't remember. I just
6:55
Speaker 2: know that I've just certainly picked up on it.
6:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is new, or I think you're right, brother.
7:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So they issued the silver warning or warning
7:09
Speaker 2: bullet bulletin rather sorry, the silver aller was issued, says Joe.
7:14
Speaker 2: The silver aller says, please help us find Jackie Glenn
7:18
Speaker 2: seventy six, last scene January first, at her Abbot Martin
7:21
Speaker 2: rode home and you know, she drives this car and whatever.
7:25
Speaker 2: Very simple, but she's missing. They don't give an explanation
7:29
Speaker 2: as to what's going on in her world or anything
7:30
Speaker 2: else at this point, though, I'm gonna be honest, Joe,
7:33
Speaker 2: I wonder how quickly police were onto this, and I
7:37
Speaker 2: think it was fairly early on because as they're investigating,
7:41
Speaker 2: the first person they're going to talk to is going
7:43
Speaker 2: to be the spouse in this particular case, seventy year
7:46
Speaker 2: old Joseph Glynn, and he's going to tell them what happened,
7:50
Speaker 2: which is all fresh. It's happened January first. Okay, January
7:54
Speaker 2: first is when they issue the silver alert that she's missing.
7:59
Speaker 2: And it didn't take long for all this to turn
8:03
Speaker 2: around very quickly because the family, first of all, their
8:07
Speaker 2: stepfather is telling them she has terminal cancer and went
8:14
Speaker 2: somewhere to be herself maybe, and they didn't buy it. Look,
8:18
Speaker 2: let me give you atle background on Jackie Glenn. This
8:21
Speaker 2: is a very accomplished woman. Joe I was amazed by this.
8:26
Speaker 2: She basically had two major careers. Very educated by the way.
8:30
Speaker 2: She actually earned her bachelor's degree from Peabody College of
8:35
Speaker 2: Education and then later earned a master's degree of marketing.
8:38
Speaker 2: Her two careers first one was spent in education. Her
8:42
Speaker 2: focus was on helping children that were on the spectrum,
8:50
Speaker 2: children who had learning issues and things like that. That
8:53
Speaker 2: was her passion. Joe, can you imagine what type of person.
8:56
Speaker 2: I have a niece that does this, and I know
8:58
Speaker 2: she's very special in being able to deal with these
9:01
Speaker 2: children helping them. Look, that was Jackie Glynn. And then
9:05
Speaker 2: she decided to follow her next step, which was as
9:09
Speaker 2: a wedding planner, a party planner, a marketing person. That's
9:13
Speaker 2: what she did. She's got this educated, full time career
9:17
Speaker 2: and decides all right, time for something new. And she
9:20
Speaker 2: is a very successful wedding event benu planner. She actually
9:25
Speaker 2: opens up Riverwood Mansion, very successful. And she likes to travel,
9:30
Speaker 2: so she would take the girls. You know, I say
9:35
Speaker 2: the girls meaning could be sister's granddaughter, anybody, but female trip,
9:39
Speaker 2: you know, like we would do a guy trip, you me,
9:41
Speaker 2: And well, they did girl trips. And these girl trips
9:44
Speaker 2: weren't too chatoogie river to go fishing. It was They're
9:48
Speaker 2: going to Tuscany and France and Ireland and you know,
9:52
Speaker 2: just these huge trips that she would find. I mean,
9:54
Speaker 2: this was a very special woman for a lot of people,
9:58
Speaker 2: and just reading a about her, I'm thinking, what a
10:01
Speaker 2: heart she has for people. And to hear that she's
10:06
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with a terminal illness, terminal cancer and has
10:09
Speaker 2: just vanished the family was like, that's not the mother
10:13
Speaker 2: the grandmother that I know.
10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tell you, Dave, that's a basic element
10:18
Speaker 1: in an investigative procedure. And a woman that is this
10:28
Speaker 1: outgoing and that has so many people kind of orbiting
10:32
Speaker 1: her sphere. You know, when you think about the lives
10:35
Speaker 1: that she's contacted, first off as an educator and then
10:40
Speaker 1: my gosh, wedding planning, he real is how many people
10:43
Speaker 1: you have to come in contact with with that profession.
10:47
Speaker 1: And it's not like she's completely disconnected from her family
10:50
Speaker 1: if she's doing these are very intimate moments that she
10:54
Speaker 1: has where she's going abroad. I mean, all you gotta
10:56
Speaker 1: do is pack into a hotel room with somebody, or
11:00
Speaker 1: on a cruise with somebody for a couple of days
11:03
Speaker 1: or a week, and you get to know them very well,
11:06
Speaker 1: and plus you've already got familial attachments. How in the
11:09
Speaker 1: world would anybody think that they could put forth this
11:13
Speaker 1: idea that she is dying of a terminal diagnosis and
11:22
Speaker 1: that no one would have heard peep from her about this.
11:26
Speaker 1: That's what's so striking about this day. To me, at least,
11:29
Speaker 1: it's very I think you'd use the term it's a
11:32
Speaker 1: very thin kind of excuse, and it's easily explored. The
11:36
Speaker 1: thing about cancer diagnoses is that if you have family,
11:42
Speaker 1: many times families are in on decisions that are made.
11:46
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about like end of life things.
11:48
Speaker 1: What I'm talking about is how are we going to
11:51
Speaker 1: coordinate getting someone to and from treatment. That is a
11:55
Speaker 1: big part of terminal illness with cancer. The reason is
11:59
Speaker 1: is that treatments that they offer weak in the body
12:03
Speaker 1: so much that you're as weak as a newborn kid,
12:06
Speaker 1: and afterwards not to mention your markedly sick as well.
12:11
Speaker 1: So it requires like several people many times to do this.
12:16
Speaker 1: Most of the time it's going to be a family member,
12:18
Speaker 1: somebody in your intimate circling. As you had mentioned this
12:22
Speaker 1: husband of hers, the stepfather to her children. He would
12:26
Speaker 1: be the first point of contact we would want to
12:29
Speaker 1: explore with because he's already put this narrative out there
12:33
Speaker 1: invested from an investigative standpoint. He told her children specifically
12:38
Speaker 1: that she has been diagnosed and that she has and
12:43
Speaker 1: this is kind of the curious thing. In consultation with
12:47
Speaker 1: her physician that is treating her, she's going to go
12:51
Speaker 1: make these end of life decisions, which again is very
12:57
Speaker 1: very ominous, and of course the trail eventually goes cold.
13:03
Speaker 1: The fact that her husband would offer up this information
13:09
Speaker 1: to her children that their mother has made a decision
13:14
Speaker 1: about end of life preparations per her physician is somewhat ominous,
13:21
Speaker 1: and of course the trail goes cold. They have no
13:25
Speaker 1: idea where their mother is. So Jackie Glenn Dave is
13:40
Speaker 1: married to this man, Joe Glenn, and he has put
13:46
Speaker 1: forth this idea that Jackie is involved with what he
13:55
Speaker 1: names as a support group. And here's kind of the
13:58
Speaker 1: chilling thing, so that she could die on her terms
14:05
Speaker 1: and she just vanishes off the face of the planet.
14:10
Speaker 1: And it's at that point in time that you know,
14:12
Speaker 1: I think that the children, you know, they suspect a'rat here.
14:18
Speaker 1: They have to because after the silver alert is issued
14:22
Speaker 1: and she's they're looking for a car, her car, and
14:25
Speaker 1: it's like a twenty ten rab four SUV with Tennessee plates.
14:32
Speaker 1: Now I see these cars on the road, But have
14:35
Speaker 1: you ever have you ever gotten startled awake in the
14:39
Speaker 1: middle of the night by your phone going off with
14:42
Speaker 1: one of these alerts. It makes me jump out of
14:44
Speaker 1: my skin almost when these things go off. And the
14:47
Speaker 1: first time you hear one of these things, and it's
14:49
Speaker 1: generally for an Amber alert a missing child, it blasts
14:53
Speaker 1: out this message that they're looking for a specific vehicle. Now,
14:56
Speaker 1: I've had these go off in the day, and I
14:58
Speaker 1: can catch myself when they give a vehicle script on these,
15:02
Speaker 1: my head gets on the swivel. I start seeing these
15:05
Speaker 1: cars everywhere, and I'm thinking, you know, is this is
15:09
Speaker 1: this the you know, is this the person that's missing?
15:13
Speaker 1: Or in most cases with Amber alerts, many times it's
15:17
Speaker 1: some kind of domestic beef between a mom and a
15:20
Speaker 1: dad and the mom or the dad have snatched the
15:24
Speaker 1: kids and they're running off with them, and of course
15:28
Speaker 1: you're going to be looking around you. You're kind of
15:30
Speaker 1: hyper aware, if you will. But nothing developed from this.
15:34
Speaker 2: Dave I started looking about how would the family would
15:39
Speaker 2: how would Jackie's family react to stepfather giving them these
15:44
Speaker 2: intimate details of her life when he's he's not their dad,
15:49
Speaker 2: you know, for the grandkids that they know him as
15:51
Speaker 2: papa or whatever.
15:52
Speaker 1: You know.
15:53
Speaker 2: But they've only been married twenty four years, Jackie Glenn
15:56
Speaker 2: and Joe Glenn, So I say, only you know, twenty
16:00
Speaker 2: four years. But she's seventy six, so that means she's
16:03
Speaker 2: in her early fifties when they marry, an established entrepreneur, educator.
16:11
Speaker 1: And so.
16:13
Speaker 2: I don't know how the family felt about Joseph Glenn.
16:16
Speaker 2: I do know that they did not bite hook lion
16:19
Speaker 2: sinker on his story that she has terminal cancer, is
16:22
Speaker 2: in a support group and has just abandoned everybody she
16:25
Speaker 2: loves and cares about, going against everything they know about
16:28
Speaker 2: her as their mother and grandmother, and just takes off.
16:32
Speaker 2: So police immediately are talking to Joseph Glenn, and it
16:36
Speaker 2: takes no time at all to talk to a doctor. Hey, Joe,
16:39
Speaker 2: terminal cancer, who's your doctor? This is not a heavy
16:42
Speaker 2: lift figuring out you know what happened? And it's the police.
16:47
Speaker 2: They're calling the doctor. No, you can't share a lot
16:49
Speaker 2: of information, doctor, But she's missing, and husband's suggesting that
16:53
Speaker 2: maybe she has taken off because she doesn't want to die.
16:57
Speaker 2: In front of her family or something. What do you
16:59
Speaker 2: suspect is going on here? Well, I suspect that if
17:03
Speaker 2: he doesn't have cancer? Really yeah, yeah, they couldn't the doctor.
17:07
Speaker 2: The doctor said, I'm not treating her for this. And
17:11
Speaker 2: that's that's what makes this so ridiculous when you begin
17:13
Speaker 2: to think about it, because this is this is a
17:16
Speaker 2: specific diagnosis. This is not this is not some kind
17:20
Speaker 2: of thing that's kind of floating out in the ether.
17:23
Speaker 1: Uh. This is very specific because before doctors will actually
17:27
Speaker 1: make a diagnosis like this, there's all kinds of testing
17:30
Speaker 1: that you go through. You can have certainly extensive blood
17:35
Speaker 1: work that's performed. If there is a tumor that they
17:38
Speaker 1: suspect as a tumor, they're going to go in and
17:41
Speaker 1: do a section of that, perhaps maybe a fine needle
17:44
Speaker 1: aspiration or one of these things, and first off, they're
17:47
Speaker 1: going to see if this is the primary tumor. They're
17:50
Speaker 1: going to see if it's you know, perhaps has metastasized
17:53
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And not to mention all of the imaging, Dave,
17:56
Speaker 1: So we're we're not talking about a process where you
18:00
Speaker 1: walk into a doctor's office and you've got a raging
18:04
Speaker 1: head cold and they see you, they might do a
18:07
Speaker 1: head X ray for whatever reason. I don't know why,
18:09
Speaker 1: but they're going to say, this is probably an advanced state.
18:12
Speaker 1: You've got an advanced case of sin. You sidis here,
18:15
Speaker 1: We're going to put you on some antibiotics. Here's some decongestion.
18:18
Speaker 1: It's not that passive. This is something that involves multiple people.
18:22
Speaker 1: But I can tell you who I think smelled a
18:25
Speaker 1: rat with this and this is this is actually Jackie's son,
18:30
Speaker 1: because you know he I think, if I'm not mistaken,
18:33
Speaker 1: he had an app that he had access to that
18:35
Speaker 1: could track her phone everywhere window he.
18:38
Speaker 2: Has life three sixty and they're able to because immediately,
18:43
Speaker 2: well we got to find her, and he steps up
18:46
Speaker 2: and says, well, I've got this app, let's try that.
18:49
Speaker 2: And it led them to odd driving patterns of Joe Glenn,
18:58
Speaker 2: not Jackie Joe, and it didn't take the investigators long
19:04
Speaker 2: to bring Joe in and sweat him. Got to find
19:06
Speaker 2: out what happened, Joe tell us. And that's where based
19:10
Speaker 2: on the information and Joe, You've been much more involved
19:12
Speaker 2: in this than I have. At the investigative level, what
19:16
Speaker 2: are we looking for because we are in the first
19:18
Speaker 2: couple of days. She missing on January first, and they're
19:22
Speaker 2: talking to Joe that week, Joe Glenn, the husband. What
19:28
Speaker 2: condition are we expecting to find her body in at
19:33
Speaker 2: this stage of the game, assuming she's dead, are police
19:36
Speaker 2: going to do that? Or in talking with this husband,
19:40
Speaker 2: are they going to assume he killed her already and
19:42
Speaker 2: she's gone. I mean, he's not hiding her. Why would
19:44
Speaker 2: he hide his own wife? Where are they going to
19:47
Speaker 2: Are they going to jump to any conclusions here?
19:49
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that they necessarily jump to conclusions,
19:52
Speaker 1: but they're going to target, you know, again, an intimate
19:57
Speaker 1: They're going to target that person that has acts in
20:00
Speaker 1: control or potential access and control over the life of
20:04
Speaker 1: somebody that they share a home with, that they're in
20:08
Speaker 1: an intimate relationship with. And one of the first things
20:10
Speaker 1: that you want to do is to if she's not
20:13
Speaker 1: at the house, if they have thoroughly searched that property
20:18
Speaker 1: gone from stem discern there, you have to ask yourself, well,
20:22
Speaker 1: does Joe Glenn have any other property? Are there any
20:26
Speaker 1: other locations that he might frequent where she could be
20:33
Speaker 1: Because you're seeing this movement and electronic forensics is fascinating
20:38
Speaker 1: if you think about this phone kind of pinging about
20:42
Speaker 1: and it's traveling in tandem perhaps with his you get
20:46
Speaker 1: this idea that he's going to know where she was
20:50
Speaker 1: lasting alive, and you've got these things traveling in tandem,
20:54
Speaker 1: and that's very hard if you're a suspect. That's very
20:56
Speaker 1: difficult to explain away. Reflecting back to the young airman
21:02
Speaker 1: from the Air Force that had gone to the Mennonite
21:08
Speaker 1: Mennonite compound, I think I think it was New Mexico
21:12
Speaker 1: where this occurred, and he kidnapped the young Mennonite woman
21:16
Speaker 1: and you could see their phones traveling in tandem down
21:19
Speaker 1: the road, and of course he winds up killing her
21:21
Speaker 1: and burying her back in Arizona, and that's very hard
21:25
Speaker 1: to escape. I think as far as circumstantial evidence goes
21:29
Speaker 1: that you know, because you're still in the mode as
21:32
Speaker 1: an investigator, you're still in the mode that this is
21:35
Speaker 1: a missing person, okay, up to a point. Now you
21:38
Speaker 1: can when you begin to hear what he is saying
21:42
Speaker 1: to try to explain it away, it becomes progressively more
21:47
Speaker 1: ominous and dark because you know that she just doesn't
21:51
Speaker 1: vanish merely off the face of the planet. You're wondering, well,
21:57
Speaker 1: if you have, if you've been traveling with her, or
22:00
Speaker 1: at least her phone, how is it that you came
22:03
Speaker 1: to be in possession of her phone? Why is it
22:05
Speaker 1: that she would drop completely out of contact in order
22:07
Speaker 1: to go get this care that she was seeking per
22:12
Speaker 1: her physician, with her support group. Because once you get
22:17
Speaker 1: caught up in that lie, the intensity of the light
22:22
Speaker 1: that you're going to be under relative to the cops
22:26
Speaker 1: is going to brighten all the more, and they're going
22:29
Speaker 1: to look into every comment that you've made, every movement
22:34
Speaker 1: that you've made, any other peripheral statements that you may
22:38
Speaker 1: have mentioned to family members, co workers, anything like that.
22:43
Speaker 1: So that's going to put them in a position where
22:46
Speaker 1: they're going to zero in on you. And I think
22:48
Speaker 1: that the big question. And I know, and you know,
22:51
Speaker 1: I hate why, But let's just say what what would
22:55
Speaker 1: have been his motivation for lying about this? What would
23:00
Speaker 1: be his motivation to essentially make her vanish off the
23:06
Speaker 1: face of the planet. And that's what the police are faced.
23:08
Speaker 2: With, Dave. Interesting that the family totally shocked to their core.
23:16
Speaker 2: Interesting in that they were involved with helping the police
23:20
Speaker 2: determine who the victim is in Jackie Glenn, what type
23:23
Speaker 2: of individual she is? What would they expect? And they're
23:26
Speaker 2: talking about this, you know, in such a way that
23:29
Speaker 2: the police really know that she didn't leave, and they
23:36
Speaker 2: are able to as you say, they zero went on
23:38
Speaker 2: Joe Glenn. And once they get Joe Glenn in a
23:41
Speaker 2: room and they're hitting him with Okay, buddy, you said
23:44
Speaker 2: she's got terminal cancer. She doesn't. We've tracked her phone
23:49
Speaker 2: with you and you're making all these tracks. Now granted
23:51
Speaker 2: it see your own property that you own, but still,
23:54
Speaker 2: why are you doing all this when your wife supposedly
23:57
Speaker 2: is missing? And he has no explanation. So Joe, it
24:01
Speaker 2: doesn't take long for Joe Glenn to cough up to
24:07
Speaker 2: the investigators what they're looking for. And as far as
24:15
Speaker 2: interviews with police go, the ones that I tend to
24:18
Speaker 2: see are are the crazy ones where somebody's trying to
24:21
Speaker 2: lie their way out of a jam. Rarely do we
24:25
Speaker 2: see an interview or hear of an interview that goes
24:28
Speaker 2: like this one. Did Joe?
24:30
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And in very short order, the police were
24:35
Speaker 1: able to determine what had happened to Jackie Glenn's body.
24:41
Speaker 1: But Dave, when I tell you what he had done
24:45
Speaker 1: to her and with her. It's going to send a
24:50
Speaker 1: chill Danner spine. My wife and I travel quite a bit, Dave,
25:06
Speaker 1: you know, generally short trips. I mean, we do take
25:10
Speaker 1: trips overseas every now and then. It's generally work related,
25:17
Speaker 1: but I like to have my grandkids with me and
25:20
Speaker 1: so we don't stray too far away from the American South.
25:25
Speaker 1: Go to the beach in the South, go the mountains
25:27
Speaker 1: in the South, that sort of thing. But one thing
25:31
Speaker 1: I never could quite get right, even as a young father,
25:36
Speaker 1: was one of those luggage carrier things that you have
25:39
Speaker 1: to strap to the roof of a car. I don't
25:42
Speaker 1: know what it is. I guess I was intimidated by
25:44
Speaker 1: them always and I always bottom used so that we're
25:48
Speaker 1: probably always busted every single one that I had, and
25:52
Speaker 1: I had a tough time kind of getting things arranged.
25:56
Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you, you know, when
26:01
Speaker 1: the police began to interview this man and he made
26:07
Speaker 1: this big reveal regarding Jackie, it led the police to
26:13
Speaker 1: a location where he had actually disposed of her body,
26:18
Speaker 1: and he used a very unique method, I think, and
26:21
Speaker 1: one of the things that kind of trips criminals up
26:25
Speaker 1: many times in regards to the burial of a body.
26:33
Speaker 1: It didn't they recover her remains on property that Joe
26:38
Speaker 1: Glenn owned.
26:39
Speaker 2: To back up, Joe Glenn admitted to killing her. Just
26:42
Speaker 2: so we know, Joe Glenn confessed to police. They hit
26:45
Speaker 2: him with all this evidence they've you know, as we
26:47
Speaker 2: were mentioning a minute ago about his travels with Jackie
26:50
Speaker 2: that the cancer nothing makes sense. Joe tells what happened,
26:54
Speaker 2: and at first he tells them what he did to her.
27:00
Speaker 2: And you and I deal with Nancy Grace on her show,
27:05
Speaker 2: and you do so many other shows. We oftentimes talk
27:10
Speaker 2: about when a person begins to plan a murder, and
27:15
Speaker 2: you know, there's always that moment of when they decided
27:18
Speaker 2: to go for it, and it could be in the
27:19
Speaker 2: blink of an eye. Right, We've heard that, and you know, yeah,
27:24
Speaker 2: I'm like, but anyway, he can't Joe, as he explains
27:28
Speaker 2: how he killed his wife of twenty four years, he
27:32
Speaker 2: can't claim it was just spur of the moment. Got
27:34
Speaker 2: into an argument and I grab what was nearest and
27:36
Speaker 2: started bashing because weeks before he killed his wife on
27:42
Speaker 2: January first, and the day the missed the silver missing
27:46
Speaker 2: alert went out three weeks before then. He had a
27:49
Speaker 2: guy digging a trench out on property. They owned a
27:53
Speaker 2: big trench, and he also bought a plastic tarp and
27:58
Speaker 2: he bought a couple of other things that came into
28:01
Speaker 2: play when he kills his wife on January first. So
28:09
Speaker 2: the idea that he had this planned out ahead of
28:11
Speaker 2: time kind of lays out before you. It's not like, Joe,
28:15
Speaker 2: I can't believe what happened. We got into really horrible
28:16
Speaker 2: argument and I just I was so mad and I
28:19
Speaker 2: hit her with a hammer. I can't even say that
28:22
Speaker 2: he planned it by the ditch, by the arm, Dude,
28:26
Speaker 2: he beat her to death with a hammer.
28:28
Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, no. And this is, you know, we talk
28:31
Speaker 1: about many times in cases, this factor of premeditative events,
28:36
Speaker 1: where there's a lot of planning involved in this. And
28:41
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Many people will be very meticulous about
28:46
Speaker 1: what they're going to do with an individual. I think
28:49
Speaker 1: that until they're actually faced with with what the future
28:56
Speaker 1: holds for them, it's like they don't give that consideration.
29:01
Speaker 1: But they'll go through these stages. Do you realize what
29:04
Speaker 1: it would take to have somebody come out and trench
29:06
Speaker 1: out an area on a piece of property. And this
29:09
Speaker 1: is this piece of property that they owned is essentially
29:13
Speaker 1: in it's a there are multiple lots around this area
29:17
Speaker 1: where you're going to have home builds that are going
29:20
Speaker 1: to go in. And that's a big piece of property
29:23
Speaker 1: and it's outside of Nashville. He specifically asked someone to
29:28
Speaker 1: trench this area out. Now here's problem one. Now you're
29:32
Speaker 1: involving a separate subject. Okay, you're involving this individual to
29:39
Speaker 1: help you, and they might not be aware of it.
29:41
Speaker 1: Help you facilitate a crime. Okay, and you can do
29:44
Speaker 1: this without knowing it. You know, man owns the property
29:46
Speaker 1: wants me to come out and trench something out. Okay, Yeah,
29:51
Speaker 1: that's what I do. I've got the equipment. I'll tell
29:53
Speaker 1: you what my hourly rate is. And you paid me
29:56
Speaker 1: and done and done.
29:59
Speaker 2: The fact alert on your phone and you're like, hey,
30:01
Speaker 2: I know this guy.
30:02
Speaker 1: I know exactly the car. Yeah, that's got to be
30:07
Speaker 1: just absolutely terrifying. So in this he had gone to
30:12
Speaker 1: great links to plan first off, where he was going
30:18
Speaker 1: to place a body once he wound up killing his wife.
30:23
Speaker 1: And then I've been thinking about to Steve and I'm
30:26
Speaker 1: wondering does he stop midstream throughout all of this, after
30:31
Speaker 1: he's gone through all these elaborate steps to facilitate this,
30:34
Speaker 1: and he's thinking, oh my gosh, now what am I
30:37
Speaker 1: going to tell everybody? How do I explain that that
30:42
Speaker 1: she's vanished at this point time? Oh, I've got it cancer,
30:46
Speaker 1: you know, And so that pops into his mind and
30:49
Speaker 1: this is the most expedient thing that he can do
30:52
Speaker 1: relative to this. But Dave, you know, once they started
30:55
Speaker 1: putting pressure on him, you know, I think that she
30:58
Speaker 1: died on January the first, twenty twenty four, and they
31:03
Speaker 1: wind up within four days of recovering her remains. So
31:08
Speaker 1: he spilled all of the beans, all of the work
31:11
Speaker 1: that he had put into this. But you know that
31:15
Speaker 1: you talk about that it was you know, you think
31:20
Speaker 1: people think, well, what could have driven him to rage
31:23
Speaker 1: like this? Well, this was not a reactionary event, Dave.
31:27
Speaker 1: This was not a reactionary event because you think about
31:32
Speaker 1: hammer and you think, well, we got into a fight.
31:34
Speaker 1: As you had mentioned, you pick up the closest object,
31:38
Speaker 1: which we refer to as a weapon of convenience, and
31:41
Speaker 1: then you begin to attack somebody viciously. Because hammer attacks
31:46
Speaker 1: are beyond the pale. No, he had been thinking about
31:50
Speaker 1: this weeks in advance. He had time. This is the
31:55
Speaker 1: tough part. He had time. If you're going to kill somebody,
32:01
Speaker 1: you know, why is it I'm using the word why.
32:04
Speaker 1: What would mean your motivation for doing it in such
32:07
Speaker 1: a brutal manner? Do you not have a web you're
32:10
Speaker 1: planning it out? If you're planning yeah, so you know.
32:13
Speaker 1: To me, this indicates a lot of anger. This is
32:17
Speaker 1: a blunt force trauma that he is exacting upon this
32:21
Speaker 1: woman when he beats her to death with this. Now,
32:25
Speaker 1: once you do this, what are you going to do
32:28
Speaker 1: with their body? And that's that's the odd thing about this.
32:31
Speaker 1: And I see this lots of times in what we
32:33
Speaker 1: refer to as a clandestine burial. By the way, I'm
32:37
Speaker 1: actually teaching a class this semester at Jacksonville State called
32:40
Speaker 1: clandestine burials, and this fits right in with the narrative
32:45
Speaker 1: that we see. You just never know what perpetrators are
32:49
Speaker 1: going to do with human remains. And I've seen this
32:53
Speaker 1: in my career as well. You know, Dave he this
32:56
Speaker 1: idea of cocooning a body. It's one of the big
33:00
Speaker 1: gifts for someone in forensics that a perpetrator can do,
33:04
Speaker 1: because he took the aforementioned tarp that you'd mentioned and
33:10
Speaker 1: wrapped her body in it, and then in this trenched
33:14
Speaker 1: out area, he took a luggage carrier for a car
33:18
Speaker 1: and entombed her body in that and then pushed everything
33:24
Speaker 1: in on top of it to cover the body. Now
33:27
Speaker 1: I can tell you this when you show up at
33:30
Speaker 1: a clandestine burial site. One of the things you're looking for,
33:36
Speaker 1: as far as we have two things that we talk about.
33:39
Speaker 1: We talk about the topography and we talk about the taphonomy.
33:43
Speaker 1: And so the topography is essentially the lay of the land.
33:46
Speaker 1: You know, is it a flat space, does it rise?
33:50
Speaker 1: Does it fall? Then you have taphonomy, and that goes
33:53
Speaker 1: into this idea of the changes in the soil, the
33:57
Speaker 1: configuration of soil. Are you impacted by erosion, water? You know,
34:02
Speaker 1: So you have to have a mix of all of this,
34:05
Speaker 1: and then you analyze the scene. This is such a
34:07
Speaker 1: fresh dig that there's no way that you would have
34:10
Speaker 1: like and plus it's wintertime in Tennessee, by the way,
34:13
Speaker 1: we're talking about in January, so you're not going to
34:16
Speaker 1: have like little sprigs of grass growing up you're going
34:19
Speaker 1: to be looking at bear Earth what they refer to
34:22
Speaker 1: as recently turned to earth, and it really, you know,
34:29
Speaker 1: it's one of these moments in time where you would
34:31
Speaker 1: if you could take this guy aside and look at
34:33
Speaker 1: him and say, does your mind work? You know, what's
34:36
Speaker 1: the deal with this? Why would you go to these
34:40
Speaker 1: links that you went to? And then you're going to
34:44
Speaker 1: roll over because you know Dave, he actually wound up
34:47
Speaker 1: rolling over on this case. He rolled over to the
34:51
Speaker 1: point where they were able to not only find her body,
34:56
Speaker 1: but this guy takes the weapon, which is a hammer,
35:02
Speaker 1: and places it into a dumpster, so the police are
35:05
Speaker 1: actually able to recover this weapon. And that we've heard
35:10
Speaker 1: the term smoking gun. This is a blood soaked hammer,
35:13
Speaker 1: if you will. It's going to have some element, some
35:16
Speaker 1: trace element on it, whether it's blood or hair. You're
35:19
Speaker 1: talking about multiple blunt force impacts to the skull, and
35:24
Speaker 1: it's the card's principle. Every time you take that hammer
35:28
Speaker 1: and you impact it onto the skull, you're talking about
35:31
Speaker 1: drawing away blood that's on the surface. After you've broken
35:35
Speaker 1: the skin with this massive laceration, You've got hair that
35:39
Speaker 1: is probably attached to the head of this hammer, because
35:43
Speaker 1: blood is so tacky and you're traumatizing the scalp to
35:45
Speaker 1: the point where you're literally pulling hair out. That I've
35:49
Speaker 1: even seen cases with blunt force trauma where you will
35:52
Speaker 1: have bits of tissue and I'm not talking about like brain,
35:55
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about skin that will attach itself to
35:57
Speaker 1: the surface of the weapon, and it can be any
36:00
Speaker 1: number of types of weapons. So he actually gifted the
36:05
Speaker 1: police with these evidence rich elements that he had, and
36:10
Speaker 1: he went so far as to preserve the body because
36:14
Speaker 1: not only is she in this plastic encasement that you
36:18
Speaker 1: would normally put luggage in and tied to the top
36:21
Speaker 1: of your car when you're heading down to Florida with
36:23
Speaker 1: your family, he's got her wrapped in a tarp. So
36:28
Speaker 1: any kind of trace, forensic evidence, like a person to
36:32
Speaker 1: person contact, that's not going to dissipate. And she's been
36:35
Speaker 1: in the ground for such a very very short period
36:38
Speaker 1: of time that they're not going to have to fight
36:42
Speaker 1: a lot of decompositional changes with Jackie's body.
36:44
Speaker 2: Dave, and I did want to ask you about that, Joe,
36:47
Speaker 2: want to play one thing out very quickly. On top
36:50
Speaker 2: of everything you just outlined investigators found a note, a
36:55
Speaker 2: handwritten note that Joe had written down about his to
37:02
Speaker 2: do list. He actually had written down items that he
37:07
Speaker 2: needed to pick up, including a hammer and a tarp.
37:12
Speaker 2: He wrote this down before again going back to premeditation.
37:17
Speaker 2: It wasn't just all of a sudden boom, it was
37:20
Speaker 2: I need these items. He also planned on items of
37:23
Speaker 2: hers that he was going to sell very quickly too.
37:25
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, I don't know, but I wanted to
37:28
Speaker 2: ask you, Joe, because we know according to Joe Glenn,
37:32
Speaker 2: he killed her on January first, he buried her the
37:36
Speaker 2: next day. With how much deterioration would occur in her
37:45
Speaker 2: body in that period of time of less than twenty
37:48
Speaker 2: four hours at her age? And by the way, does
37:51
Speaker 2: age have anything to do with how quickly a body
37:54
Speaker 2: breaks down?
37:55
Speaker 1: No, it really does. That's an excellent question. I don't
37:57
Speaker 1: think of ever had anybody asking me that question, but yeah,
38:01
Speaker 1: it is. It is fascinating when you think about it.
38:06
Speaker 1: You would think that that perhaps your chronological age might
38:11
Speaker 1: have some kind of impact on the progression of decomposition
38:14
Speaker 1: a body. It really doesn't. Uh. Now, if you're if
38:18
Speaker 1: you're more robust, muscular with muscularly that might have some
38:25
Speaker 1: impact relative to the presentation of something like Roger Mortis. Okay,
38:32
Speaker 1: but when we're you know, and we just did an
38:34
Speaker 1: episode recently they where we talked about decompositional proceeds in
38:40
Speaker 1: a micro sense, and but we're talking about now, we're
38:44
Speaker 1: talking about macro where where it's a broader or broader
38:49
Speaker 1: scope where you're looking for deterioration in a body. You're
38:53
Speaker 1: not going to see a lot of that at all
38:55
Speaker 1: with her body at this point in time. And here's
38:58
Speaker 1: another piece to this, which I think is significant, because
39:01
Speaker 1: not only she been concooned and encased, she's been she's
39:07
Speaker 1: in a subterranean state where she's buried. And you've got
39:11
Speaker 1: a coolness that's set in. Remember, I mean, obviously Tennessee doesn't.
39:15
Speaker 1: It's not like permafrost or something that you would see
39:17
Speaker 1: in northern Minnesota or in Alaska or Canada. But you're
39:21
Speaker 1: talking about the soil temperature. The ground temperature is very
39:24
Speaker 1: cool as well. So that's going to aid in the
39:26
Speaker 1: preservation of the remains. You're not going to see a
39:30
Speaker 1: lot of decay in the body. What I'm fascinated by,
39:36
Speaker 1: I think is what are they going to find at
39:38
Speaker 1: the scene as far as elements that can be tied
39:41
Speaker 1: back directly to this husband. Are there any kind of
39:46
Speaker 1: instruments that he may have used at the scene that
39:50
Speaker 1: that facility helped him facilitate finishing up this area that
39:56
Speaker 1: he's dug out. Here's one more thing that I don't
39:59
Speaker 1: know if think about this or not. You're talking about
40:02
Speaker 1: plastic here. You're talking about a plastic covering and this
40:06
Speaker 1: travel case.
40:07
Speaker 2: Guess what.
40:10
Speaker 1: I'd like to know how long he's owned this thing,
40:13
Speaker 1: because if this is a recent purchase, you might find
40:17
Speaker 1: other people's fingerprints on this. They're not going to be deteriorated,
40:20
Speaker 1: particularly on the interier. If he's grabbing the interior to
40:23
Speaker 1: lid and like lowering it down, this is probably going
40:27
Speaker 1: to be It might be slightly textured, but it might
40:29
Speaker 1: be a non poor surface. You would be able to
40:31
Speaker 1: recover fingerprints from the underside of this carrier. And in
40:36
Speaker 1: addition to this, this is a plastic tarp. You could
40:40
Speaker 1: actually take that tarp and fume it with like super
40:43
Speaker 1: glue perhaps, and you would be able to determine if
40:47
Speaker 1: in fact this was something that he had had his
40:52
Speaker 1: hand on.
40:53
Speaker 2: And oddly enough, a lot of the forensic stuff won't
40:55
Speaker 2: even come into play because Joe Glenn actually surprised us.
41:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Joe Glenn actually admitted to killing his wife,
41:06
Speaker 1: beating her to death with a hammer, and then taking
41:11
Speaker 1: her body and wrapping it, placing it into this car carrier,
41:18
Speaker 1: and then placing the entirety of all of those elements
41:21
Speaker 1: into a pre dug hole. I think that we can
41:25
Speaker 1: conclude that Glenn knew what he was looking at. He's
41:30
Speaker 1: looking at the police having this huge collection of evidence
41:36
Speaker 1: that is going to point directly at him. But I
41:40
Speaker 1: can tell you this. On Wednesday, August the twenty eighth,
41:46
Speaker 1: Joseph Glenn pled guilty to the charge of first degree
41:50
Speaker 1: murder and he has now been sentenced to life. I'm
41:57
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags