Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Negotiating With Trump The New Book And Guide From Peter D Johnston

Transcript

Negotiating With Trump The New Book And Guide From Peter D Johnston · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

0:00
Speaker 1: The place to be is ero dot net a r
0:02
Speaker 1: r oe net. Twenty different podcasts to choose from, one
0:06
Speaker 1: of them unplugged and totally uncut. This is where all
0:11
Speaker 1: the action is. If it's happening now, beat in books,
0:14
Speaker 1: in movie theaters, music, or even if you're just traveling,
0:17
Speaker 1: it's unplugged and totally uncut only on aro dot net
0:21
Speaker 1: a r r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Where
0:26
Speaker 1: did it all start for you? Because the power of negotiation,
0:29
Speaker 1: I think we begin that at one and two years old,
0:32
Speaker 1: but then we get really good or we get really bad.
0:36
Speaker 1: How I can't imagine what you're stepping through.
0:41
Speaker 2: You know, we're negotiating any time we're trying to influence
0:44
Speaker 2: someone to do something errow, So those negotiations start early.
0:50
Speaker 2: Some would say the first time we cry for our
0:53
Speaker 2: mother's milk, we're letting our needs be known and they're
0:58
Speaker 2: big net and we just take that through life in
1:03
Speaker 2: different ways in terms of how we negotiate to get
1:06
Speaker 2: what we want. Hopefully we get better at it, but
1:09
Speaker 2: certainly I think as adults we can learn from ourselves
1:14
Speaker 2: when we were younger, when we've pushed limits to get
1:17
Speaker 2: what we wanted and sometimes as adults we don't do
1:19
Speaker 2: that enough. So the president is very good at pushing limits.
1:24
Speaker 1: Pushing limits in the way of being a bully or
1:27
Speaker 1: pushing limits only because he's got a vision and the
1:29
Speaker 1: rest of us need to learn how to tap into it.
1:31
Speaker 1: But because we're also dang selfish out here. We're going, ah,
1:35
Speaker 1: stop it, stop being selfish, as my father would say,
1:37
Speaker 1: quit being the know it all. Let some of these
1:39
Speaker 1: leaders do their job.
1:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think the president has his strengths
1:46
Speaker 2: and weaknesses. As I lay out in negotiating with Trump
1:49
Speaker 2: my new book is certainly you know. He brings networking
1:56
Speaker 2: and good communication skills and understanding what people fear and
2:02
Speaker 2: need and puts forward creative options for meeting those needs.
2:08
Speaker 2: He leads with his alternatives inter the threatening people if
2:13
Speaker 2: they don't give him what he wants, and overall, I'm
2:20
Speaker 2: just out for a walk. By the way, the challenge
2:24
Speaker 2: for the president is that there are two basic ways
2:27
Speaker 2: to negotiate. One is a fixed pie approach and the
2:31
Speaker 2: other is an expanded pie approach. And the fixed pie
2:34
Speaker 2: approach assumes that if you and I are negotiating arrow,
2:38
Speaker 2: there's a set pie with a set amount of value,
2:41
Speaker 2: and our job as negotiators is to fight over getting
2:45
Speaker 2: the biggest piece, and it doesn't expand the pie.
2:48
Speaker 3: It just assumes the value.
2:50
Speaker 2: Set an expanded pie. Mentality and approach which the President
2:55
Speaker 2: does not take, as we've seen in Iran, for example,
2:59
Speaker 2: is where you and I talk about our interests, generate
3:03
Speaker 2: different ways to meet those interests, use guiding standards to
3:06
Speaker 2: get us to the right outcome, and we don't threaten
3:09
Speaker 2: each other. We build relationship through the negotiation process, so
3:14
Speaker 2: we build trust and communication that allows for ongoing sustainable value.
3:20
Speaker 2: And the President has succeeded with his aggressive fixed by
3:24
Speaker 2: approach despite the fact that science and research and computer
3:29
Speaker 2: simulations repeatedly show that an expanded by approach is the
3:35
Speaker 2: most sustainable way to create value.
3:39
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that I am finding to
3:41
Speaker 1: be so fascinating in all of my years on this planet,
3:44
Speaker 1: which have been I mean, I'm blessed to be here
3:46
Speaker 1: this many years. But the thing about it is is
3:48
Speaker 1: that I've always run into those stories about how Ronald
3:50
Speaker 1: Reagan and Abraham Lincoln were the great communicators. I got
3:54
Speaker 1: to tell you, my heart is saying something differently about
3:56
Speaker 1: these moments now, because when it comes to that power
3:58
Speaker 1: of negotiation, why is it I feel like that more
4:02
Speaker 1: is being done through the power of word today than
4:05
Speaker 1: having to read a freaking speech. Basically, I mean, I
4:08
Speaker 1: understand because I was there for Ronald Reagan, but I
4:11
Speaker 1: never saw what I'm seeing today.
4:15
Speaker 2: In terms of say a little more about that, communicating
4:20
Speaker 2: openly through truth, Yeah.
4:21
Speaker 1: Being real, being real, Yeah, being very real, Because I
4:25
Speaker 1: mean it's like, I mean, how many times can you
4:27
Speaker 1: look at a teleprompter and put in your pitch, volume
4:29
Speaker 1: and tone. But when he throws that teleprompter away and
4:32
Speaker 1: he goes on his own, I'm going, oh, crap, hold on,
4:34
Speaker 1: we're going somewhere now.
4:37
Speaker 2: Well exactly, And it's heard of its where you like them,
4:42
Speaker 2: hate them, respect, revere them. This is someone we haven't
4:48
Speaker 2: seen before in terms of wanting people from all sides
4:53
Speaker 2: of the political spectrum wanting to well being drawn to
4:59
Speaker 2: listen listening to Trump because it's.
5:03
Speaker 3: Hard to take your.
5:04
Speaker 2: Eyes off of even if you fear what he's about
5:07
Speaker 2: to say. And his use of social media is unparalleled
5:12
Speaker 2: obviously amongst other peers today. But when you think back
5:17
Speaker 2: to JFK as a leader in the sixties, imagine if
5:22
Speaker 2: with Kreutchev he had had the ability to say, hey,
5:26
Speaker 2: hang on, stuff those missiles where they are on his
5:29
Speaker 2: truth social account or his social media account. And Trump
5:33
Speaker 2: has transformed how leaders negotiate through their use of social media.
5:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, my god.
5:40
Speaker 1: It's in the public eye though. I mean that's the way.
5:43
Speaker 1: I are there many times, and I'll sit there and
5:44
Speaker 1: watch the other ones even when they post their stuff,
5:46
Speaker 1: and I'm going, are you guys realize the rest of
5:49
Speaker 1: us can see this going on? Right? I mean, I
5:51
Speaker 1: think that's the big culture shock for me.
5:56
Speaker 3: Well. Sure.
5:57
Speaker 2: And Trump is in personality type in the book, as
6:03
Speaker 2: you may have seen. I do. I assess using psychologists
6:09
Speaker 2: his Meyers Briggs type, and he is an extrovert to
6:14
Speaker 2: the maximum. He may be in the top percentile of extroverts.
6:18
Speaker 2: And that's what leads him to want to share every
6:21
Speaker 2: single thought he has with the public. And you know,
6:25
Speaker 2: the downside to being such an extrovert is, by definition
6:29
Speaker 2: they seek Extroverts at that extreme don't have internal validation mechanisms.
6:37
Speaker 2: They tend to seek validation in an extroverted way through others.
6:42
Speaker 2: And that's why affirmation of who Trump is as a
6:47
Speaker 2: winner and the impact he's having, including seeing his name
6:51
Speaker 2: on buildings, is very much more to who he is
6:56
Speaker 2: and what drives him in his negotiations.
6:58
Speaker 1: I got to tell you something. Your book has changed
7:00
Speaker 1: my life, and there's no way that I'm the only
7:02
Speaker 1: one that's going to go along these lines. Is that
7:05
Speaker 1: your book is teaching me how to be a better listener,
7:09
Speaker 1: how to be a greater activator, and that if things
7:11
Speaker 1: don't just because we have an indifference doesn't mean that
7:14
Speaker 1: we still can't get along. And because I've grown so
7:17
Speaker 1: tired of looking at people saying I know we're negotiating
7:20
Speaker 1: right now, but this could be the absolute final time
7:23
Speaker 1: we ever talk again, they'll go, what do you mean?
7:25
Speaker 1: Because one of us is going to get pissed off
7:27
Speaker 1: and one of us is going to walk away. I
7:29
Speaker 1: don't see that happening in your book at all. What
7:31
Speaker 1: I see is, well, let's go ahead and listen, let's
7:33
Speaker 1: go ahead and decode the president, Let's go into the mindset,
7:37
Speaker 1: and let's become greater communicators through the power of negotiation.
7:43
Speaker 2: That's absolutely the message of the book, and I think
7:49
Speaker 2: President Trump is an excellent case study.
7:53
Speaker 3: For all of it.
7:54
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
7:55
Speaker 2: In terms right, And we've never had such a high
7:59
Speaker 2: profile negotiator who defines himself by the field across business
8:06
Speaker 2: and politics so that we all have the same reference points,
8:11
Speaker 2: just as we're having this conversation about his social media style,
8:15
Speaker 2: for example, and so we can learn from that in
8:18
Speaker 2: terms of what's effective and what's not. And clearly a
8:23
Speaker 2: lot of this comes back to a fixed pie approach
8:26
Speaker 2: to negotiation which the president tends to take versus an
8:30
Speaker 2: expanded by discussion.
8:31
Speaker 3: Where we create more value.
8:33
Speaker 2: And honestly, if the President didn't have his family wealth
8:40
Speaker 2: and the Apprentice as a very successful TV show which
8:44
Speaker 2: he can't take away from him, he likely would never
8:47
Speaker 2: have had the wealth and ability to run for president
8:53
Speaker 2: even a first time because of his limited the limited
8:57
Speaker 2: value that he claims through a fixed pie negotiation approach.
9:02
Speaker 1: Well, it's almost that's a.
9:02
Speaker 2: Lesson for all of us. But he's done it. He
9:06
Speaker 2: has done it. He's made it work for him, but
9:09
Speaker 2: it's something that won't work for.
9:11
Speaker 3: Most people, most.
9:13
Speaker 2: People who follow that approach in business where I try
9:16
Speaker 2: to win in every negotiation, I say, arrow, lookout, I'm
9:20
Speaker 2: going to win this negotiation.
9:22
Speaker 3: What do you say? You say, thanks?
9:24
Speaker 2: But no, thanks, I'm going to be negotiating with someone
9:27
Speaker 2: else who takes more of an expanded pie approach to
9:29
Speaker 2: creating value. And that's the reality of business. People don't
9:33
Speaker 2: survive if they take that aggressive approach consistently.
9:38
Speaker 3: But the President, for.
9:39
Speaker 2: Various reasons, has been able to survive and make it work.
9:43
Speaker 1: And I'll bet you that is exactly the reason why
9:45
Speaker 1: when people ask me, would you ever invite the president
9:48
Speaker 1: over to do an interview, and I always say no,
9:50
Speaker 1: it's exactly what you just talked about, because it would
9:53
Speaker 1: be two different opposite sides of the power of negotiation.
9:56
Speaker 1: I'm studying your book, dude. I want to know because
9:58
Speaker 1: I'm just like anybody else. I want to know the inside.
10:01
Speaker 1: I also want to know what's beneath, and I want
10:03
Speaker 1: to grow around it. And this right here is such
10:05
Speaker 1: a great reference book and it needs to be in
10:08
Speaker 1: the hands of anybody who has to use pitch, volume
10:11
Speaker 1: in tone to be a part of their success story.
10:15
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, I appreciate you saying that, And that's
10:18
Speaker 2: exactly what I tried to.
10:19
Speaker 3: Make it be.
10:21
Speaker 2: Is a book that, yes, first and foremost, is about
10:26
Speaker 2: understanding one of the most powerful political figures of our
10:30
Speaker 2: time and how to best influence him to get what
10:34
Speaker 2: you want. Whether you're a diplomat, or a business person,
10:37
Speaker 2: or a citizen of the world including the United States.
10:42
Speaker 2: This book lays out how you negotiate with Trump most effectively.
10:47
Speaker 2: But secondly, to your point, it's also using Trump as
10:50
Speaker 2: a case study so that we can understand negotiation better
10:55
Speaker 2: in our own lives and learned from his strength and
11:00
Speaker 2: his weaknesses to be more effective in getting what we want.
11:03
Speaker 1: Like it or not. We're covering the subject with Peter D.
11:06
Speaker 1: Johnston Negotiating with the President. Oh, there's so much to
11:12
Speaker 1: learn and talk about here. Peter D. Johnston is back
11:16
Speaker 1: look at where we stand on this present day. There's
11:19
Speaker 1: two things that we're sitting here wondering what's going on
11:21
Speaker 1: with the power of negotiation when it comes to the president.
11:23
Speaker 1: And that is number one, what happened with the Iran agreement?
11:26
Speaker 1: What did they agree to? And then when he says, Hey,
11:29
Speaker 1: look I think I'm going to do it on live TV.
11:31
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude, you just won me over. And
11:34
Speaker 1: number two, what's going on with the G seven. I
11:36
Speaker 1: want to know there. I mean, it's like we're all
11:38
Speaker 1: biting at the bit because he's a master of the cliffhanger.
11:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, Iran is an example, of course,
11:49
Speaker 2: of a fixed PI approach that the President took fighting
11:54
Speaker 2: fighting for resources, fighting with Iran versus expanding pie, which,
12:00
Speaker 2: as you know, I've advised both parties. I'm not partisan,
12:04
Speaker 2: But the Iran nuclear deal in twenty fifteen. So far,
12:09
Speaker 2: I haven't seen anything that indicates that tearing up that
12:13
Speaker 2: deal made sense. It was an expanded pie approach again
12:17
Speaker 2: going back to that terminology that allowed the Iranians to
12:22
Speaker 2: enter fully enter the international community based on good behavior,
12:27
Speaker 2: economically improving their situation, while at the same time meeting
12:32
Speaker 2: the interests in the United States and its allies in creating.
12:36
Speaker 3: Peace in the Middle East.
12:38
Speaker 2: And that's what the deal was designed to do. And
12:40
Speaker 2: I can tell you, with what's going on right now,
12:43
Speaker 2: my opinion is that the Trump administration would be very lucky.
12:49
Speaker 2: It would be a huge feed of negotiation just to
12:52
Speaker 2: be able to get back to the status quo of
12:55
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, when that Iran Nuclear Deal was actually working.
13:01
Speaker 2: And the reason it would be tough to get back
13:03
Speaker 2: is you can't ignore what's happened since then. That when
13:06
Speaker 2: Iran's been attacked and feels that it can't trust the
13:11
Speaker 2: United States. It's a lot harder to get into feel
13:16
Speaker 2: like that for them to re enter it thinking that
13:19
Speaker 2: the US is going to be acting in good faith.
13:22
Speaker 1: See your question inside this book really is something that
13:25
Speaker 1: I'm sure people around the world are asking, whether it
13:27
Speaker 1: be in Ukraine, be it a gaza, or even in Iran,
13:32
Speaker 1: and that is are we dealing or negotiating with a
13:34
Speaker 1: genius or a mad man? So it's not just in
13:36
Speaker 1: your book you are being transparent with us saying, hey,
13:39
Speaker 1: look you need to take off the rose colored glasses
13:42
Speaker 1: and look at this situation that history is handed to us.
13:45
Speaker 1: You can learn from it or you can just kind
13:48
Speaker 1: of just fart out and go away, right.
13:52
Speaker 2: And my answer to that, by the way, in brief
13:56
Speaker 2: is he a genius or a mad man? He isn't
14:00
Speaker 2: a mad man. And a lot of people, would you know,
14:04
Speaker 2: would like us to draw that conclusion.
14:06
Speaker 3: But you don't negotiate.
14:08
Speaker 2: You don't negotiate your way to the presidency twice against
14:12
Speaker 2: the odds, as the President has done, if you're a madman.
14:16
Speaker 2: And the other thing about the madman assumption is, you know,
14:21
Speaker 2: can you influence a mad man arrow.
14:24
Speaker 3: I think you.
14:26
Speaker 1: Can, but it's going to what are you willing to sacrifice?
14:30
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but it's it's just the assumption that somebody's crazy.
14:35
Speaker 2: You generally can't influence crazy easily. But when you look
14:41
Speaker 2: at what's actually driving somebody like the President and dig
14:45
Speaker 2: into his personality profile, you see that he's actually like
14:49
Speaker 2: a lot of Americans. Thirty percent of Americans share his
14:53
Speaker 2: personality profile, even though his is more extreme than most.
14:57
Speaker 2: And I find that empowering. And what I try to
15:01
Speaker 2: do in the book is empower those negotiating with Trump
15:04
Speaker 2: to realize this is crazy, this is just who he is,
15:07
Speaker 2: and this is what drives him, and this is how
15:11
Speaker 2: you have to respond to him accordingly in braining him
15:16
Speaker 2: in in part, but also an insenting good behavior from
15:20
Speaker 2: him through deal making.
15:21
Speaker 1: So when you break it all down, when it comes
15:24
Speaker 1: to the book, negotiating with Trump, do you feel that
15:26
Speaker 1: this book is about teaching people how to live by
15:30
Speaker 1: their own rules. You can have a voice. You don't
15:33
Speaker 1: have to go into silence or become an introvert. That
15:36
Speaker 1: you can step forward and even though it may not
15:39
Speaker 1: be agreed upon, use your voice. Just use it.
15:45
Speaker 3: Absolutely and.
15:49
Speaker 2: The more you want to understand the simple framework behind
15:52
Speaker 2: negotiation and this difference between taking a fish by competitive
15:57
Speaker 2: approach and an expanded I will meet your interests, you
16:03
Speaker 2: will meet mine, which only makes sense right. That's the
16:06
Speaker 2: only way good sustainable deals get done. It's empowering for
16:12
Speaker 2: all of us, whether it's in your marriage or with
16:16
Speaker 2: your kids, or work with your boss. You can always negotiate,
16:23
Speaker 2: even through with a boss when you're negotiating upwards in
16:26
Speaker 2: an organization, just by asking questions. Somebody puts a job
16:31
Speaker 2: off in front of you with a salary, and people
16:35
Speaker 2: tend to say, well, what do I do now? Just
16:38
Speaker 2: ask a good question, such as, Errol, thank you so
16:41
Speaker 2: much for this offer. Can you tell me a little
16:45
Speaker 2: more about how you came up with the number that
16:47
Speaker 2: you're offering me in terms.
16:48
Speaker 3: Of a salary? Just that question.
16:52
Speaker 2: By answering that, you tell me a whole bunch of
16:54
Speaker 2: information about market standards and how you came up with
16:58
Speaker 2: that value, and then I can use that same basis
17:04
Speaker 2: and logic that you've used to try to influence you.
17:07
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's exactly the mantra that I live by.
17:10
Speaker 1: Ask the questions, question the answers, it will open the
17:13
Speaker 1: door for conversation. You call it negotiating, and reading this book,
17:18
Speaker 1: I have to agree with you and grow with you,
17:20
Speaker 1: because at least you have the courage to step out
17:23
Speaker 1: here with something that a lot of people are saying,
17:25
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, back it down, back it down, don't
17:27
Speaker 1: cause a ruckus. Why not? It's called negotiating exactly.
17:33
Speaker 2: And the President defines himself by his negotiation skills. And
17:40
Speaker 2: what I just decided to do was put that to
17:43
Speaker 2: the test. The State Department is State Department has called
17:47
Speaker 2: them the greatest American deal maker of all time. And
17:51
Speaker 2: I want to put that to the test.
17:54
Speaker 3: Where is it true? And where isn't it true?
17:56
Speaker 2: And I, you know, not to ruin the end of
17:59
Speaker 2: the book, But basically, in terms of meeting his personal interests,
18:04
Speaker 2: the President is somewhat unparalleled in terms of what he's
18:07
Speaker 2: achieved since twenty twenty one when post January sixth, with
18:12
Speaker 2: respect to national interests. Because of his fixed pie approach,
18:17
Speaker 2: which is by definition limiting value, he does not meet
18:23
Speaker 2: the standard of being one of America's greatest deal makers
18:26
Speaker 2: in meeting the broader interest of the United States.
18:29
Speaker 1: Wow, where can people go to find out more about you,
18:33
Speaker 1: because oh my god, this is not your only project
18:35
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be your last, but my god,
18:37
Speaker 1: you're the guy that people need to follow.
18:41
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
18:42
Speaker 2: It's well, you can just go to Negotiating with Trump
18:45
Speaker 2: dot com and find out more about my background. And
18:50
Speaker 2: this book and despite the fact that sounds heavy, I
18:55
Speaker 2: think you've seen, I've tried to write it for the
18:58
Speaker 2: general public to use this opportunity to understand negotiation better
19:05
Speaker 2: in their own lives as well as with the president.
19:08
Speaker 2: And just to say a final word on that. You know,
19:11
Speaker 2: as I say in the book, you can negotiate at
19:14
Speaker 2: the table with the president, but you can also negotiate
19:18
Speaker 2: for most of us away from the table by through
19:21
Speaker 2: many of the actions. If you're not that people have
19:24
Speaker 2: already taken, you know, in terms of moves to counter ice,
19:29
Speaker 2: in terms of protests on any number of fronts. With
19:36
Speaker 2: respect to television commentators like Colbert and Kimmel, there was
19:41
Speaker 2: a reaction people canceled their Disney subscriptions. That made a difference.
19:47
Speaker 2: And so all of us we can empower ourselves by realizing,
19:52
Speaker 2: whether you're at the table or not, you can influence
19:56
Speaker 2: the President the United States, the most powerful figure the
20:00
Speaker 2: world right now.
20:01
Speaker 1: I hope your journey takes you to Chris Cuomo. And
20:03
Speaker 1: the reason why is because Chris Cuomo was the one
20:05
Speaker 1: that opened up my eyes when he personally told me,
20:08
Speaker 1: he says, you got to go to the other side
20:10
Speaker 1: and see what they're talking about. You got to get
20:12
Speaker 1: over there and learn so that you know what you're
20:14
Speaker 1: talking about. And this is one of those books, Peter
20:17
Speaker 1: that says, hey, you know what, it is a better understanding.
20:21
Speaker 1: Instead of having the personal human ego get in the
20:23
Speaker 1: way of developing our own conclusion, your book is an
20:27
Speaker 1: open door for us to have a better understanding of
20:30
Speaker 1: where we are in history.
20:33
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and I hope your readers enjoyed
20:37
Speaker 2: negotiating with Trump.
20:38
Speaker 3: I enjoyed writing it.
20:40
Speaker 1: Well. Please come back to this show anytime in the future, sir.
20:42
Speaker 1: The door is always going to be open for you.
20:46
Speaker 3: Thank you. Errow pleasure talking to you.
20:49
Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant today, Okay, sir.
20:52
Speaker 3: I'll do my best for you too.
20:54
Speaker 1: Thank you.