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Awakening Resilience with Ishan Shivanand · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Theapists podcast. My name is Gymickferson.
0:04
Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
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Speaker 1: So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
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Speaker 1: guest today, Doctor Ishan Shivenon. Ishan, welcome, Thank you so
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Speaker 1: much for having me. You're welcome. So. Doctor Schivenon was
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Speaker 1: born into an ancient lineage of yogi's is spanning twenty
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Speaker 1: one generations, and spent the first twenty years of his
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Speaker 1: life in a Himalayan monastery. He's a spiritual innovator, coach,
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Speaker 1: and founder of Yoga of Immortals, a modern practice grounded
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Speaker 1: in authentic Yogic tradition. You combine science, storytelling, and spirituality
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Speaker 1: to help individuals and organizations manage burnout, enhance performance, and
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Speaker 1: cultivate inner balance. His work spans wellness, corporate training, Plan three,
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Speaker 1: and global community building with a mission to uplift millions
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Speaker 1: through compassionate practical spirituality. Yishan, Welcome to the podcast. Before
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Speaker 1: we get going share with our listeners where you're from
1:14
Speaker 1: originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: So presently I'm in Texas, Austin. I had to do
1:24
Speaker 2: some work in training and educating people on the benefits
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Speaker 2: of meditation and how we can use technological support to
1:33
Speaker 2: enhance the quality of meditation. So we were working on
1:37
Speaker 2: some things on that.
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Speaker 3: And originally I grew up in India in the monastery.
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Speaker 3: It's in Rajasthan, so it would be the western part
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Speaker 3: of India.
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Speaker 2: And then I moved to Mauritius, which is Africa. So
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Speaker 2: I spent about seven years there and after reach in
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Speaker 2: twenty I moved to the United States for conducting research
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Speaker 2: on mental health.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's kind of a good segue here, So how
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Speaker 1: does all this start for you? I mean in terms
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Speaker 1: of growing up in a monastery, living in a monastery,
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Speaker 1: and getting to the point where you're in Austin, Texas,
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Speaker 1: teaching educating people about the benefits of yoga and meditation. Simply,
2:32
Speaker 1: how did that start for you?
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Speaker 2: So when I was in the monastery, I got to
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Speaker 2: help a certain type of people. These people were very
2:47
Speaker 2: self motivated. So if you come seeking out a monastery
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Speaker 2: and you want to learn. Then half of the battle
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Speaker 2: is already done. You have already resolved most of your traumas,
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Speaker 2: your issues, and now you are just looking for a way.
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Speaker 2: And such a person you provide a nudge and they
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Speaker 2: end up finding inner peace. They were ready, they were thirsty,
3:12
Speaker 2: looking for water. And then when I came out of
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Speaker 2: the monastery, I started to meet normal people, so to speak.
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Speaker 2: I realized that so much of the world were in
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Speaker 2: denial about the problem being their own mental health, and
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Speaker 2: even when I tried to teach them, it was very
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Speaker 2: difficult to reach to them with whatever modality I was offering.
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Speaker 2: So I realized, I must do something that can take
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Speaker 2: away the friction that comes between the merrytator and the
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Speaker 2: meditator meditation guide. Until that friction is removed, help cannot
4:01
Speaker 2: be provided. And at the same time, I wanted to
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Speaker 2: see what is the extent of benefits that these ancient
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Speaker 2: yogic modalities can provide to the world, Because every time
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Speaker 2: I would see somebody from West would come and just
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Speaker 2: take a very small aspect, very small aspect of Asian traditions,
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Speaker 2: the healing modalities, and then somehow they would become huge
4:32
Speaker 2: in the world when they will be presented in a
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Speaker 2: certain manner, and that make me really appreciate these Asian
4:40
Speaker 2: healing modalities, the native medicines, the Indian knowledge systems, because
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Speaker 2: I started to see there is not just the personal
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Speaker 2: benefit value in it. Maybe there is value enough that
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Speaker 2: there can be nation building with these modalities, and that
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Speaker 2: was what excited me on the prospect of research number one,
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Speaker 2: how to breach the gap between the patient and the
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Speaker 2: care facilitator, and second to see the extent of benefits
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Speaker 2: that can be provided to the world based on these
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Speaker 2: integative health care modalities.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So initially you said when you
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Speaker 1: were in the monastery, you were experiencing people coming to
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Speaker 1: you or the monastery, and you said they had done
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Speaker 1: a lot of most of the work. Explain that why
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Speaker 1: had it been that those people coming had done most
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Speaker 1: of the work understanding their own traumas For example.
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Speaker 2: There is a cycle when it comes to trauma. Times
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Speaker 2: people will take that situation and build over it, not
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Speaker 2: realizing that the foundation of the structure that we have
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Speaker 2: built there is some rot. Insight, but human beings are
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Speaker 2: very resilient. They learn to live with disabilities, may be
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Speaker 2: physiological or emotional or mental and many times they become
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Speaker 2: at ease with the situation they are in. I have
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Speaker 2: seen people be at ease in a toxic relationship, people
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Speaker 2: be at ease with their own inability to form meaningful
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Speaker 2: relations I have seen people in a comfort zone. But
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Speaker 2: then something changes inside and that is the biggest change.
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Speaker 2: I call it the Eureka movement. When the thought starts
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Speaker 2: to come I deserve better. A person can live a
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Speaker 2: lifetime and such a thought may not come inside them.
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Speaker 2: And this thought that I deserve better, it makes us
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Speaker 2: do wonderful things. And we need to believe this. We
7:21
Speaker 2: need to accept this I deserve better. If it is
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Speaker 2: just superficial that thought, then I won't take an action.
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Speaker 2: But these people, they have sat with this thought that
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Speaker 2: I deserve better. That thought has made them go on
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Speaker 2: a quest. And when they go on that external quest
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Speaker 2: looking for something, they are almost always ready to go
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Speaker 2: on an internal quest. And this small thought can take lifetimes.
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Speaker 2: And that's why I'm saying. Those people who have come,
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Speaker 2: they've all to come with that self respect. They've already
8:03
Speaker 2: come with that thought that yes, I deserve something. I
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Speaker 2: want something, and in my mind I have it. Now
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Speaker 2: I just need to find a path to it, so
8:14
Speaker 2: that generally looking for a path, so they have that
8:18
Speaker 2: mental resilience because just taking that step, mister guy, and
8:23
Speaker 2: going somewhere like this, it requires extreme courage. And if
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Speaker 2: they can present it, then they are ready. Yes, agree
8:36
Speaker 2: that saying that when the student is ready, the master appears.
8:41
Speaker 2: What it actually saying is it is only when the
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Speaker 2: student is ready really search for the master. Say that again,
8:51
Speaker 2: when the student is ready, only then he will open
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Speaker 2: his eyes to the master. Search the master. Otherwise who cares?
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Speaker 1: How how did someone like yourselfishad, who was in a
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Speaker 1: monastery for twenty years? How do you? How do you
9:10
Speaker 1: get out? How do you leave? When? When is the
9:13
Speaker 1: time to leave?
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Speaker 2: So with me, there were fantastical incidences that occurred if
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Speaker 2: I look at the previous generations. So my father, he
9:28
Speaker 2: wasn't born in the monast He was chosen as an
9:34
Speaker 2: eight year old, so he was a child was growing
9:38
Speaker 2: up in being impoverished in an India that was broken
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Speaker 2: and dividing and still coming out from the traumas and
9:48
Speaker 2: wounds of colonial rule. So at that time he was
9:52
Speaker 2: the eighth son, the youngest of a widow. So at
9:58
Speaker 2: that time monks could come and recruit boys into the order.
10:06
Speaker 2: So my father was chosen. But this lineage, in this lineage,
10:13
Speaker 2: you can be a family man, a householder, provided your
10:17
Speaker 2: whole family becomes part of the order and starts to practice.
10:24
Speaker 2: So when the time came, my father did marry, and
10:28
Speaker 2: he chose to raise a family in the monastery. And
10:32
Speaker 2: if things would have happened in a perfect world, I
10:38
Speaker 2: would never have had exposure of the outside world. I
10:41
Speaker 2: would never have come out. I was so happy. I
10:44
Speaker 2: was content, Or you could say I did not know
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Speaker 2: any better, because how can I seek that which I
10:52
Speaker 2: do not know? So in the book, I talk about
10:56
Speaker 2: a sequence of events that happened. First, my father took
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Speaker 2: a choice that he was ready to teach the ways
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Speaker 2: of the monastery to outsiders, something that has not done
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Speaker 2: been done for hundreds of years. And those outside elders
11:13
Speaker 2: would come. I would listen to stories of the world,
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Speaker 2: and to a young boy, those stories create desire because
11:23
Speaker 2: they would talk about simple things, maybe for a normal person,
11:28
Speaker 2: but to meet you know, the first time I remember
11:30
Speaker 2: somebody said that there is a sixteen wheeler tuck or
11:35
Speaker 2: some multiple wheels, and I was dumbfounded. How can something
11:41
Speaker 2: had so many wheels because in my head the maximum
11:44
Speaker 2: I could conjure is a four wheeler, a two wheeler,
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Speaker 2: sixteen wheels, and I dad dreamed for weeks thinking how
11:54
Speaker 2: that thing would look like. So these stories inspired me.
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Speaker 2: And then there was a cataclysm flood that destroyed the monastery,
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Speaker 2: which made us all relocate to the boundaries of a city.
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Speaker 2: So then I got to see more things, and not
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Speaker 2: always there was all. There was disgust, and there was love,
12:21
Speaker 2: and there was ownership. After some time that okay, the
12:24
Speaker 2: world is much bigger than the small place, and like
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Speaker 2: you have ownership towards the monastery, and you want to
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Speaker 2: make pretty flowers, pretty trees, make it your own. Then
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Speaker 2: the desire started to come. This world is mine and
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Speaker 2: I must make it better. So, yes, the sequence of
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Speaker 2: event does happen. Some things are in your control. And
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Speaker 2: then sometimes it is Destiny who wings and nods and says,
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Speaker 2: let me see what I can do with his life.
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Speaker 2: So I would say I'm a product of both free
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Speaker 2: will and the universe having a good day.
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Speaker 1: Let me just remind everyone I'm speaking with Ishan Shivanan.
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Speaker 1: His book is called the Practice of Immortality Amongst God
13:08
Speaker 1: to discovering your unlimited potential for health, happiness and positivity. Shan,
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Speaker 1: I want to get a little more clarity on I mean,
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Speaker 1: not every monk writes a book. Not every monk comes
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Speaker 1: to the West and shares their wisdom and educates. What
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Speaker 1: was it about you? What did you feel? What did
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Speaker 1: you see where you're like, I want to start sharing this.
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Speaker 1: I want to start maybe helping other people. What was that?
13:38
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that?
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Speaker 2: So as a monk, you provide theological services like a clergy.
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Speaker 2: So in the Eastern traditions, your life is intertwined with
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Speaker 2: a sense of spirituality. So the Sanatan culture from where
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Speaker 2: I come from, there is birth a very important time.
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Speaker 2: Then there are sixteen times in your life and a
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Speaker 2: child is born, when you buy a house, when you die.
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Speaker 2: That is when you have that monk in your life
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Speaker 2: and they help you in theology and not just that.
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Speaker 2: There are other practices also that the monk teaches. There
14:26
Speaker 2: are so you have to understand India being a culture
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Speaker 2: that is thousands of years old, certain traditions act like
14:39
Speaker 2: cognitive behavioral therapist or psychologist or psychiatrists to the population.
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Speaker 2: So I come from such a tradition that believed in
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Speaker 2: health education and my job, the job that I was
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Speaker 2: doing as the monk was prati presso so trauma release.
15:02
Speaker 2: Pati pressor is a certain technique, a modality where you
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Speaker 2: go through your own emotions, and it's the most important
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Speaker 2: modality that you have to do. It's Buddha did it,
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Speaker 2: he called it, and he talked about it as Jata Katayan.
15:19
Speaker 2: The great monk Mahabi did it. He called it Jati's
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Speaker 2: muran and the same as Pati presser. That you can't
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Speaker 2: live with that trauma. And it's important because imagine if
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Speaker 2: you're going into a marriage, then the monk says you
15:32
Speaker 2: must do preti pressa because you can't go in a
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Speaker 2: marriage with old baggage. Or if you're having a kid,
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Speaker 2: you must meditate because if you are carrying the generational traumas,
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Speaker 2: then it's going to be hard. So that was my job.
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Speaker 2: I would do parti pressor for all the people of
15:47
Speaker 2: the order, and I would teach them and I would
15:50
Speaker 2: do things with them. But I was very localized. I
15:53
Speaker 2: was talking to people who look like me. I was
15:55
Speaker 2: talking to people who work of the same faith, of
15:58
Speaker 2: the same culture, and just doing it as something that
16:03
Speaker 2: need to be done. But it was around twenty fifteen
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Speaker 2: when I moved to Africa, and in Mauritious Africa, it
16:13
Speaker 2: is like United States but a bit better, as in
16:18
Speaker 2: it is probably one of the only cultures where so
16:23
Speaker 2: many groups have assimilated together. So there is the Creole population,
16:28
Speaker 2: the Caucasian population, the South Asian population, the Asian population,
16:33
Speaker 2: every single demographic on one island. They have a very
16:38
Speaker 2: strong and robust economy. They have things like universal healthcare,
16:43
Speaker 2: and the crime rates are extremely low, so it's very
16:49
Speaker 2: It's like utopia heaven on earth. And I was there
16:54
Speaker 2: and at the same time this place being such a
16:57
Speaker 2: magnificent place, the government being wrong and the people being
17:03
Speaker 2: having everything, there was still an rising issue of cases
17:10
Speaker 2: of mental health problems with the youth. So it was
17:15
Speaker 2: at that time that I myself had a son, and
17:18
Speaker 2: because I had a son, I wasn't traveling much, so
17:21
Speaker 2: I couldn't do my work as the clergy, as the
17:24
Speaker 2: chaplain of my community because I'm in this new place.
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Speaker 2: And then it was at that time the Education Department
17:32
Speaker 2: approached me. They had these radical ideas which are not
17:37
Speaker 2: radical now. In fact, they were pioneers at that time
17:40
Speaker 2: that they want to bring integrative health care to the youth,
17:45
Speaker 2: where they want to use ancient modalities like yoga meditation
17:49
Speaker 2: so that the root cause of mental health problems can
17:54
Speaker 2: be sorted out. And they understood that at least the
17:58
Speaker 2: people that I was dealing with at that time, they
18:00
Speaker 2: were highly educated and they saw the value in it
18:03
Speaker 2: that we need to change the lifestyles of these kids.
18:08
Speaker 2: So when I went into the room these schools that
18:11
Speaker 2: were given to me, these universities, I found a very
18:14
Speaker 2: mixed up of various children, demographics, cultural backgrounds, religious backgrounds, languages,
18:24
Speaker 2: and I found that I was not at all prepared
18:27
Speaker 2: for the challenge. These are all new people. And as
18:30
Speaker 2: I said, I was used to dealing with a certain
18:33
Speaker 2: group of people that were just so happy to be
18:36
Speaker 2: in my presence and just teach what I have to
18:38
Speaker 2: set And I was like the Guru, and there were flowers,
18:41
Speaker 2: and I was elated by just breathing. You know, I
18:46
Speaker 2: just had to show up and there would be people
18:50
Speaker 2: falling over me. And here I am sitting with lousy
18:53
Speaker 2: teenagers who are ready to throw at me rotten tomatoes.
18:57
Speaker 2: So it was a very good experience, and I really
19:00
Speaker 2: had to dig deep to reach their hearts, and that
19:06
Speaker 2: was a challenge I was willing to accept. And over
19:10
Speaker 2: periods of time, years upon years, university after university, school
19:14
Speaker 2: system after school system, you realize that there is this
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Speaker 2: change that are coming in children who practice such modalities
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Speaker 2: versus the children who do not practice or do not
19:27
Speaker 2: have access to that. And then it became a matter
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Speaker 2: of we need to research on what that tangible will change.
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Speaker 2: Is that if there is a benefit to that student,
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Speaker 2: that benefit cannot just be the teachers being happy that, oh,
19:39
Speaker 2: the student is doing so well, or the child we have,
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Speaker 2: oh I am doing so well, or it just cannot
19:45
Speaker 2: be the numbers that they are getting in their examinations.
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Speaker 2: There needs to be a proper study and such a
19:51
Speaker 2: document needs to be presented to the various education systems
19:55
Speaker 2: around the world that we are failing and we must
19:58
Speaker 2: provide more tools to the children who go to the
20:01
Speaker 2: education systems. And it is for that reason then that
20:06
Speaker 2: escalated to now let us start to collect heart evidence,
20:11
Speaker 2: tangible evidence on the real benefits of these modalities in
20:16
Speaker 2: a person's life. From there it became all about research.
20:21
Speaker 2: So progressively things changed and the thought patterns changed, the
20:26
Speaker 2: thoughts change in a manner that the goal has always
20:30
Speaker 2: been the same to help people, But it is just
20:36
Speaker 2: I keep on finding new paths to reach to my goal,
20:41
Speaker 2: and I would believe more efficient paths than the paths
20:45
Speaker 2: I was exposed to as a child in the monastery.
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Speaker 1: Let's talk about your book, The Practice of Immortality Amongst God,
20:55
Speaker 1: Discovering your Unlimited potential for health, happiness and positivity. Why
21:00
Speaker 1: did you write the book.
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Speaker 2: I wrote the book because I would be presenting papers
21:08
Speaker 2: in various universities in North America, and a lot of
21:11
Speaker 2: the times people will ask these protocols that you talk about,
21:17
Speaker 2: how can we practice them? How can we bring the
21:20
Speaker 2: same magnificent results in our own life? What is the practice?
21:26
Speaker 2: And also, people were very curious about my story because
21:31
Speaker 2: when I was researching with a group of physicians, or
21:37
Speaker 2: I would be working with multidisciplinary doctors, I would be
21:41
Speaker 2: the odd one out in the room, and they would
21:46
Speaker 2: be very curious that how you came to be. Where
21:51
Speaker 2: do these modalities come from? Because when we talk about yoga,
21:57
Speaker 2: every American thinks they know yoga. But if we take
22:01
Speaker 2: that same yoga that American thinks is yoga back to
22:05
Speaker 2: the monasteries in India, the monks will scratch their head
22:08
Speaker 2: and say, what the hell is this? So in their head,
22:14
Speaker 2: the American is doing something very ancient and exotic, and
22:22
Speaker 2: you know, something that raises the Kundalini and whatnot that,
22:26
Speaker 2: but I don't know what it is. It's is something new.
22:30
Speaker 2: It's like it's like cuisine. You know, when you are
22:33
Speaker 2: eating a pizza in Italy versus a piasa in New
22:37
Speaker 2: York versus a pizza in somewhere else. It's they have
22:40
Speaker 2: their own flavor to it. And at what point does
22:45
Speaker 2: the pizza stop being a piecea and it becomes something
22:48
Speaker 2: completely different, like a calzone. So what calzone is to
22:53
Speaker 2: a pizza is what American yoga is to yoga. It
22:58
Speaker 2: is something something that has some ingredients, but I don't
23:03
Speaker 2: know what it is. So when I would make people
23:05
Speaker 2: do protocols and I would call them yog but there
23:07
Speaker 2: would be nothing like the yogu in the studios, then
23:11
Speaker 2: people would get curious. People are curious and curious in
23:14
Speaker 2: a good way. So that's why I wanted to write
23:18
Speaker 2: a book. Because number one, so that they know the story,
23:22
Speaker 2: they know some background, and they can learn my life
23:26
Speaker 2: lessons that I learned. Plus I have an interesting life,
23:29
Speaker 2: so I wanted to share that. But more than anything,
23:33
Speaker 2: I wanted to share the structure in which meditation is
23:40
Speaker 2: taught in these ancient practices, and the structure in such
23:45
Speaker 2: a manner that it can easily be integrated with anyone
23:50
Speaker 2: who is living a modern life. So when I wrote
23:53
Speaker 2: the chapters of the book, after each chapter, I have
23:57
Speaker 2: a system on a person how they can progressively start
24:02
Speaker 2: to merit it. So my promise is that anybody who
24:05
Speaker 2: reads the book, or anyone who has the desire to meditate,
24:09
Speaker 2: and this is the last book you ever read on meditation,
24:12
Speaker 2: forget the story, forget the fun, forget my satire that
24:16
Speaker 2: I put in the book. If you just focus on
24:18
Speaker 2: the instructions that are there after each chapter, then this
24:22
Speaker 2: is a very powerful course. And sometimes when I travel
24:28
Speaker 2: America and I see that, you know, there are the
24:31
Speaker 2: small courses that people teach, and they chart thousands and
24:34
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars for it, and then even I'm thinking
24:38
Speaker 2: I should have done that, But I didn't do that.
24:40
Speaker 2: I just made a book, and inside that book I
24:43
Speaker 2: put in all those systems, and that was the objective
24:48
Speaker 2: that nobody should suffer and everybody should benefit and move
24:53
Speaker 2: towards the higher plane of consciousness.
24:58
Speaker 1: Obviously there are many types and for meditation, what type
25:02
Speaker 1: of meditation are you speaking about here or teaching?
25:07
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the foundation of meditation. When we look
25:13
Speaker 2: at meditation, then we look at the Himalian traditions as
25:17
Speaker 2: pioneers and why their systems are so unique because they
25:25
Speaker 2: have had time, generations eon civilizations to practice and to
25:32
Speaker 2: master the art, even some things as beautiful as vishad vishadiyog.
25:43
Speaker 2: So vishadijog is this concept that this tradition has that
25:49
Speaker 2: sorrow has the greatest power because it can lead you
25:55
Speaker 2: to enlightenment, and the enlightenment that comes from sorrow the
26:01
Speaker 2: process is called vishad yog. So the monks they say
26:06
Speaker 2: that if sadness has come to your life, this is
26:09
Speaker 2: not something to cry about, but this is something to
26:16
Speaker 2: celebrate because in that state of sadness, the wail of
26:22
Speaker 2: illusion in which you are living, that is broken, and
26:26
Speaker 2: suddenly you are at this precipice, at a point of
26:30
Speaker 2: great change and transformation. If that sadness would not have come,
26:37
Speaker 2: this opportunity of growth would not have come. So then
26:41
Speaker 2: the whole meditation system is that, Yes, it is sad
26:45
Speaker 2: and unfortunate that we had to go through these sequence
26:50
Speaker 2: of events, but it is also glorious because now that
26:55
Speaker 2: it has happened, let us see what best we can
26:59
Speaker 2: do with it. So these meditation systems they rely if
27:04
Speaker 2: I just look at the structure of them, they rely
27:08
Speaker 2: a lot on visualization, affirmation, mantra, breath work. So on
27:17
Speaker 2: the surface you will see this awareness and this together
27:24
Speaker 2: forms the physical structure of that meditation. But when we
27:31
Speaker 2: start to go internal to the subtle beauty of these meditations,
27:37
Speaker 2: they are much more profound and difficult to express in words.
27:43
Speaker 2: It is something that a person must feel an experience
27:46
Speaker 2: on their own.
27:48
Speaker 1: Yes, you've talked a lot about you mentioned frequently mental
27:53
Speaker 1: health in this interview. Here do by definition, is a
28:00
Speaker 1: monk yourself, maybe someone who also or similarly has mental
28:10
Speaker 1: health issues but understands how to deal with it or
28:17
Speaker 1: manage it. Or obviously you're human beings, right among a
28:22
Speaker 1: human being? You're not? Are you free from mental health issues?
28:28
Speaker 2: No? Definitely not. In fact, when I would study the
28:32
Speaker 2: history of previous monks, then there are these great monks,
28:40
Speaker 2: and when you listen to their stories, a psychiatrist would
28:45
Speaker 2: definitely diagnose them. There are the monk called Mirabi who
28:53
Speaker 2: just fell in love with the concept of divinity and
28:56
Speaker 2: devotion so much so that she could hear the divine
29:02
Speaker 2: voices something like John of Arc but less violent. So
29:08
Speaker 2: psychiatrists would say, this is his ophenia and just just
29:14
Speaker 2: take all the poetry out of that story. A lot
29:18
Speaker 2: of the monks that I lived with, the I could
29:23
Speaker 2: say they had OCD. And they were very particular about
29:27
Speaker 2: their practice, very particular about their discipline. So the common
29:36
Speaker 2: world is looking at them and thinking that this is
29:39
Speaker 2: what discipline looks like, this is what austerity looks like.
29:44
Speaker 2: But easily this is what OCD also looks like. And
29:50
Speaker 2: again I can look at the great test greatness of
29:55
Speaker 2: a monk and I could make it redundant with the
29:59
Speaker 2: diet no stick. But I believe where the monks thrive
30:04
Speaker 2: is that they have issues, but rather than seeing that
30:10
Speaker 2: issue as a deabilitating burden that they have to carry
30:16
Speaker 2: somehow they have learned to make their own issue their superpowerful.
30:22
Speaker 2: That they are different, they understand it. They are far
30:26
Speaker 2: removed from what is considered normal in society and there
30:31
Speaker 2: is a point that comes in the monk's life that
30:34
Speaker 2: he sees that, Okay, I am not like everyone else.
30:39
Speaker 2: What is it that makes me different? Now? What is
30:41
Speaker 2: it that makes me difference? I can either live my
30:43
Speaker 2: life crying about it, being sad about it, medicating myself
30:48
Speaker 2: about it, or I can look at ancient systems and
30:55
Speaker 2: traditions of people who went through the same thing and
30:58
Speaker 2: utilize that that problem as a superpower, as a gift
31:06
Speaker 2: from the universe. And I see this that OCD, which
31:10
Speaker 2: would have crippled a person in the modern world, is
31:14
Speaker 2: now making them thrive in the spiritual world so much
31:19
Speaker 2: so that now I cannot even call it a disorder.
31:22
Speaker 2: It is a superpower. And I think that is the
31:25
Speaker 2: lesson that we have to learn from these people who
31:29
Speaker 2: who choose to treat their body and mind like a temple,
31:34
Speaker 2: and who have this love affair with themselves. And I
31:40
Speaker 2: think that is very very important. But to answer your question, yes,
31:45
Speaker 2: there are mental health issues, and this is the beauty
31:49
Speaker 2: that I talked about, But there is also a dark
31:51
Speaker 2: side about being a monk and having mental health issues
31:55
Speaker 2: because if not given the correct teaching. Because I come
32:02
Speaker 2: from a meditative tradition, So I had it easy. It
32:06
Speaker 2: was all about self growth, self development and raising your consciousness.
32:11
Speaker 2: But what if you are a monk in a religious
32:13
Speaker 2: background and religion teaches you shame. Religion teaches you that
32:19
Speaker 2: any problem that you're going through, it is a punishment
32:22
Speaker 2: from the Almighty. So there has been some lack in
32:25
Speaker 2: your prayer that you are suffering from this. So that
32:29
Speaker 2: cycle of guilt and shame can also lead to some
32:33
Speaker 2: form of self medication. And I see this when I
32:36
Speaker 2: work with clergy from other faiths, that substance abuse is
32:40
Speaker 2: a big problem because what you do with your mental
32:44
Speaker 2: health and what you do and your own faith is
32:47
Speaker 2: not enough. And that is where I feel that without
32:52
Speaker 2: the meditative modalities and the wisdom that East can bring
32:56
Speaker 2: to the table, and if it is just religion that
32:58
Speaker 2: we are relying upon theological concepts and philosophies, then that
33:06
Speaker 2: can spiral the mental health also to a very very
33:09
Speaker 2: dark place.
33:11
Speaker 1: So yes, both both the spectrums fascinating. Ishan. Again, the
33:17
Speaker 1: book is called The Practice of Immortality. Amongst guid to
33:20
Speaker 1: discovering your unlimited potential for health, happiness and positivity is
33:24
Speaker 1: Sean How do people learn more about you and your book.
33:28
Speaker 1: It's the best way.
33:30
Speaker 2: So the book is available wherever books are available. I
33:36
Speaker 2: was elited to know that the book is a national
33:38
Speaker 2: bestseller now, so people around the world are enjoying the practices.
33:44
Speaker 2: So maybe from Amazon, maybe from your local bookstore.
33:50
Speaker 1: Can I just say that on Amazon it has almost
33:53
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred five star ratings.
33:58
Speaker 2: I did not know that.
34:00
Speaker 1: Amazing anyway, so go ahead.
34:03
Speaker 2: Yes. So if you really want to know me and
34:07
Speaker 2: my work, practice the teachings in the book, and if
34:11
Speaker 2: you feel you benefit and you want to reach out
34:15
Speaker 2: to me to give gratitude or to learn more, then
34:18
Speaker 2: you can find me on LinkedIn as well under Ishan Shewan.
34:23
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have all that linked up here at the
34:26
Speaker 1: show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com.
34:30
Speaker 1: Is Shan amazing. You're welcome back anytime. Thank you so
34:34
Speaker 1: much for being here.
34:35
Speaker 2: Thank you, mister guy. It was a pleasure. In my
34:38
Speaker 2: regards to all your listeners, Thank you.