Latest / Murder Files Unsealed / A Fatal Failure: The Tragedy of Don Lock
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: I want you to imagine a scenario for a minute. Picture,
- 0:05Speaker 1: just an incredibly mundane, universally understood annoyance.
- 0:09Speaker 2: Right, like something we all deal with.
- 0:10Speaker 1: Exactly. You are driving home, the sun is going down,
- 0:14Speaker 1: you've got the radio on, you're thinking about dinner, and
- 0:18Speaker 1: the car in front of you suddenly hits the brakes.
- 0:20Speaker 2: Oh yeah, worse right.
- 0:22Speaker 1: You react, You tap your own brakes, but you are
- 0:25Speaker 1: just a fraction of a second too late. You bump
- 0:27Speaker 1: into their rear bumper.
- 0:29Speaker 2: Just a minor fender bender.
- 0:30Speaker 1: Exactly a tap you were doing maybe, I don't know,
- 0:33Speaker 1: sixteen miles per hour. It is the kind of everyday
- 0:36Speaker 1: inconvenience where you let out a heavy sigh, you roll
- 0:38Speaker 1: your eyes, put the car and park, and step out
- 0:41Speaker 1: onto the asphalt, expecting to swap insurance details.
- 0:44Speaker 2: Yeah, you expect the next half hour of your life
- 0:46Speaker 2: to be filled with awkward apologies, maybe a frustrated glance,
- 0:49Speaker 2: and just some paperwork.
- 0:51Speaker 1: Right now, I want you to sit with that image
- 0:53Speaker 1: and try to imagine how profoundly unprepared you would be,
- 0:57Speaker 1: how entirely defenseless your brain would be if that ordinary,
- 1:00Speaker 1: boring moment instantly escalated into a fatal frenzied attack.
- 1:04Speaker 2: It is. It's a terrifying premise, honestly, largely because it
- 1:09Speaker 2: completely shatters the implicit social contract that we all kind
- 1:13Speaker 2: of rely on to function in society.
- 1:15Speaker 1: A social contract.
- 1:16Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we walk through the world expecting a
- 1:19Speaker 2: proportionate response to our actions. Right, we accidentally bump into
- 1:22Speaker 2: someone on the sidewalk, we expect a scowl or a
- 1:25Speaker 2: quick apology. We bump a car bumper, we expect frustration.
- 1:28Speaker 2: We absolutely do not expect to fight for our lives.
- 1:31Speaker 2: When that proportionate response vanishes, the reality we think we
- 1:35Speaker 2: live in just collapses.
- 1:36Speaker 1: And today we are unpacking a chilling timeline where that
- 1:40Speaker 1: reality collapse completely. Yeah. Thanks to some incredibly detailed documentary
- 1:44Speaker 1: work by the team at the YouTube channel Truly Criminal,
- 1:47Speaker 1: specifically they're video titled The Disturbing Killing of Don Locke,
- 1:52Speaker 1: we have this comprehensive view.
- 1:54Speaker 2: Of a tragedy, a tragedy that started with a tacked
- 1:57Speaker 2: bumper on a summer evening, but was actually a decade in.
- 2:00Speaker 1: The making, a full decade. Our mission for this deep
- 2:04Speaker 1: dive is to look at the entire machinery of this event.
- 2:07Speaker 1: This isn't just about recounting a crime. It is an
- 2:10Speaker 1: investigation into a devastating collision between three distinct forces.
- 2:15Speaker 2: Right, because you have a vibrant life being lived to
- 2:17Speaker 2: the absolute fullest, and then a profoundly unraveling mind and.
- 2:22Speaker 1: A catastrophic, decade long systemic failure by mental health services.
- 2:26Speaker 2: It really is a perfect storm.
- 2:27Speaker 1: It is we are going to dig into the why
- 2:31Speaker 1: and the how this was allowed to happen in broad daylight.
- 2:34Speaker 2: And setting the stage for that investigation requires us to
- 2:37Speaker 2: look at the broader context of those systemic failures, because
- 2:41Speaker 2: when we examine the details of this attack, we are
- 2:44Speaker 2: forced to ask some deeply uncomfortable questions.
- 2:46Speaker 1: About how society handles severe mental illness.
- 2:49Speaker 2: Exactly how society handles the intersection of severe mental illness
- 2:52Speaker 2: and public safety. When all the warning signs are blinking red,
- 2:55Speaker 2: when families are practically begging for intervention, why does the
- 2:59Speaker 2: medical and legal beureaucracy so often failed to act until
- 3:02Speaker 2: someone loses their life.
- 3:03Speaker 1: It's maddening. But to even begin to understand the magnitude
- 3:08Speaker 1: of that loss, we have to look at the man
- 3:10Speaker 1: who stepped out of his car that evening. Donald Locke,
- 3:14Speaker 1: Don Locke, Yeah, Don was seventy nine years old. But
- 3:16Speaker 1: if you look at his profile from the source material,
- 3:19Speaker 1: he was the absolute antithesis of the stereotypical slowing down retiree.
- 3:23Speaker 2: He really was.
- 3:24Speaker 1: He was a retired solicitor, a father of two, a
- 3:26Speaker 1: grandfather of four, a great grandfather of five, and he
- 3:30Speaker 1: actually had a sixth great grandchild on the way.
- 3:33Speaker 2: Wow. That is a massive family right.
- 3:35Speaker 1: He and his wife Maureen had been married for fifty
- 3:37Speaker 1: five years and she was actively planning this big eightieth
- 3:41Speaker 1: birthday party for him. He was a beloved figure in
- 3:43Speaker 1: his community, known as a true.
- 3:45Speaker 2: Gentleman and a huge football fan.
- 3:47Speaker 1: Oh massive, a dedicated season ticket holder for Brighton and
- 3:50Speaker 1: Hove ALBIONFC.
- 3:52Speaker 2: But beyond his family and his football, what really defines
- 3:55Speaker 2: Don's profile is his relentless, almost astonishing physical energy.
- 3:59Speaker 1: Yeah, cycling exactly.
- 4:01Speaker 2: This was a man whose passion for cycling went far,
- 4:04Speaker 2: far beyond a casual weekend hobby.
- 4:06Speaker 1: Astonishing the right word. He was riding up to one
- 4:08Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles a week. That is wild again
- 4:11Speaker 1: at seventy nine years old. And he didn't just ride,
- 4:14Speaker 1: I mean he competed. He held his local cycling club's
- 4:18Speaker 1: twenty four hour time trial record for forty four years.
- 4:21Speaker 2: Let's just pause and think about what that means. A
- 4:23Speaker 2: twenty four hour time trial.
- 4:25Speaker 1: Yeah, explain that for people who aren't into cycling.
- 4:27Speaker 2: It's a grueling endurance event where you cycle continuously for
- 4:31Speaker 2: a full day and night to see how much distance
- 4:33Speaker 2: you can cover. That sounds like torture, right, and Don
- 4:37Speaker 2: set a record that stood for over four decades. Nobody
- 4:41Speaker 2: in the club could touch it.
- 4:42Speaker 1: That's incredible. He was also the editor of the Worthing
- 4:45Speaker 1: Wheel magazine for the club members, and he was still
- 4:48Speaker 1: actively winning competitive cycling events up until twenty ten.
- 4:51Speaker 2: So in his seventies he's still winning, still winning.
- 4:54Speaker 1: Yeah, But it wasn't just the bike. He and Maureen
- 4:57Speaker 1: were traveling the world constantly. The sources mentioned them ostriches,
- 5:01Speaker 1: doing the terrifying Sydney Harbor Bridge Walk, just exploring different continents.
- 5:06Speaker 2: His son actually joked that they traveled so much it
- 5:08Speaker 2: was easier to let the family know when they were
- 5:10Speaker 2: going to be home rather than when they were going away.
- 5:12Speaker 1: That's hilarious. But there is a crucial piece of medical
- 5:16Speaker 1: context here that frames this intense thirst for life.
- 5:19Speaker 2: Isn't there there is Yeah. The sources note that Don
- 5:22Speaker 2: had recently survived a grueling four year battle with prostate cancer.
- 5:27Speaker 2: He had just been given the all clear.
- 5:29Speaker 1: Wow.
- 5:29Speaker 2: And psychologically that is a massive detail. When someone survives
- 5:33Speaker 2: a protracted terminal threat like cancer, we often see a
- 5:38Speaker 2: psychological shift known as post traumatic growth, or like a
- 5:41Speaker 2: post illness vitality exactly post illness vitality.
- 5:44Speaker 1: Wait, could you explain the mechanics of that? Because you
- 5:47Speaker 1: often hear about people being just exhausted or depleted after
- 5:50Speaker 1: years of chemotherapy or radiation. Sure, how does it trigger
- 5:53Speaker 1: this massive surge in vitality.
- 5:56Speaker 2: It comes down to a fundamental rewiring of how the
- 5:58Speaker 2: brain perceives time and risk. When you are faced with
- 6:02Speaker 2: a terminal diagnosis, your mortality isn't an abstract concept anymore.
- 6:06Speaker 1: It's real.
- 6:06Speaker 2: It is an immediate ticking clock. For four years, Don
- 6:10Speaker 2: was living with that clock. Once you beat the illness,
- 6:13Speaker 2: the brain often sheds mundane anxieties.
- 6:15Speaker 1: Like sweating the small stuff right.
- 6:17Speaker 2: The fear of embarrassment, the desire to put things off
- 6:20Speaker 2: until next year. All of that just evaporates. Surviving a
- 6:23Speaker 2: terminal threat leaves many individuals fiercely stubbornly dedicated to living
- 6:28Speaker 2: in the present moment.
- 6:29Speaker 1: Because they realized the absolute fragility of time.
- 6:32Speaker 2: Precisely, Don wasn't just casually surviving his late seventies, I
- 6:36Speaker 2: mean he was devouring them. He had a fresh lease
- 6:38Speaker 2: on life, and he was determined to extract every ounce
- 6:41Speaker 2: of joy from it.
- 6:42Speaker 1: I want you, the listener, to think about the glue
- 6:45Speaker 1: in your own family. Think about that one incredibly reliable
- 6:48Speaker 1: person who is always organizing the holidays, always planning the
- 6:52Speaker 1: next trip, always making sure everyone is connected.
- 6:54Speaker 2: Anchor.
- 6:55Speaker 1: We had the anchor that was Don. His family described
- 6:58Speaker 1: him as a big kit at heart, just radiant, this
- 7:00Speaker 1: infectious energy. So with that vibrant picture in mind, let's
- 7:04Speaker 1: move to the evening of July sixteenth, twenty fifteen. Okay,
- 7:07Speaker 1: is eight forty pm. Don is driving his Coyota home
- 7:11Speaker 1: from a cycling club meeting. He is on the A
- 7:14Speaker 1: twenty four road in Finden, West Sussex, and he is
- 7:17Speaker 1: driving incredibly slowly, just sixteen miles.
- 7:20Speaker 2: Per hour, which paints a very specific picture of his
- 7:23Speaker 2: mindset in that moment. You know, well, a man driving
- 7:26Speaker 2: at sixteen miles per hour on a summer evening is
- 7:28Speaker 2: not in a rush. He is likely relaxed, perhaps reflecting
- 7:32Speaker 2: on the evening with his friends, just enjoying the drive.
- 7:36Speaker 2: His nervous system is completely at baseline.
- 7:38Speaker 1: But then the vehicle directly in front of him, a Ford,
- 7:43Speaker 1: breaks suddenly, completely without warning, out of nowhere. Because Don
- 7:47Speaker 1: is close behind, going very slowly, his Toyota bumps into
- 7:51Speaker 1: the back of the Ford. The documentary source is absolutely clear.
- 7:54Speaker 2: In this point this was a very minor collision a tap.
- 7:58Speaker 1: Don puts his car in park and steps out. He's
- 8:01Speaker 1: likely intending to check the bumper for a scratch and
- 8:04Speaker 1: to ask the driver why he slammed on the brakes
- 8:06Speaker 1: in the middle of.
- 8:07Speaker 2: A clear road, which is what anyone would do exactly.
- 8:09Speaker 1: The driver of the Ford steps out as well. His
- 8:12Speaker 1: name is Matthew Daily, and the confrontation that happens next
- 8:15Speaker 1: is bone chilling.
- 8:16Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.
- 8:18Speaker 1: Daily doesn't shout, he doesn't throw his hands up in frustration.
- 8:21Speaker 1: He appears entirely emotionless, and he simply beckons Dawn to
- 8:25Speaker 1: come closer.
- 8:25Speaker 2: The biomechanics and psychology of that specific gesture beckoning someone
- 8:29Speaker 2: closer after a crash are deeply unsettling, because it's so
- 8:33Speaker 2: unnatural exactly. It indicates a level of premeditation and control
- 8:38Speaker 2: in that micro moment that defies standard human reaction.
- 8:42Speaker 1: Right, because if someone hits your car, your adrenaline usually
- 8:45Speaker 1: spikes immediately, right, you'd expect shouting.
- 8:47Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the key. In a standard road rage incident,
- 8:50Speaker 2: the autonomic nervous system is triggered. The fight or flight
- 8:53Speaker 2: response dumps adrenaline and cortisol into the bloodstream.
- 8:57Speaker 1: So you get the physical symptoms, right.
- 8:58Speaker 2: You see physiological signs flushed skin, flared nostrils, rabid breathing,
- 9:03Speaker 2: an aggressively distorted facial expression. People usually start yelling from
- 9:07Speaker 2: across the asphalt.
- 9:08Speaker 1: Just reacting instinctively.
- 9:10Speaker 2: Because the brain is in a state of hyper arousal,
- 9:13Speaker 2: trying to establish dominance or defend territory. But Daily doesn't
- 9:18Speaker 2: exhibit any of that. He is quiet, he is calculated.
- 9:21Speaker 1: So beckoning Don closer isn't an explosion of anger.
- 9:24Speaker 2: Now, it is the drawing of a trap.
- 9:27Speaker 1: God that's terrifying. A passerby actually senses this danger and
- 9:31Speaker 1: tries to intervene. They shout at Daily to leave it alone,
- 9:34Speaker 1: to calm down.
- 9:35Speaker 2: But then this passer by season knife clenched in Daily's hand, Yeah.
- 9:39Speaker 1: And realizes the extreme danger, backing away quickly, and then,
- 9:43Speaker 1: without any verbal warning, without any preamble, Daily launches a ferocious,
- 9:49Speaker 1: frenzied attack on Dawn with a four point five inch blade.
- 9:52Speaker 2: It's just horrific.
- 9:53Speaker 1: The witness accounts of this moment are incredibly difficult to process.
- 9:57Speaker 1: They describe Daily as completely expressed.
- 10:00Speaker 2: This detail is so important.
- 10:02Speaker 1: Yeah, One specific witness said he looked like he was
- 10:04Speaker 1: having his passport photo taken while he was repeatedly stabbing
- 10:07Speaker 1: a human being.
- 10:08Speaker 2: That specific detail, the passport photo expression, is perhaps the
- 10:12Speaker 2: most clinically significant observation of the entire event. Really, why
- 10:16Speaker 2: because it forces us to completely reevaluate what is happening
- 10:19Speaker 2: in Daly's brain.
- 10:20Speaker 1: I have to stop here because this defies every logical
- 10:23Speaker 1: script we have. Road Rage is usually about bruised egos.
- 10:26Speaker 1: It's about someone feeling disrespected and lashing out with a
- 10:29Speaker 1: fistfight or maybe a weapon if it escalates terribly over
- 10:32Speaker 1: an argument. But how does a sixteen mile our fender
- 10:35Speaker 1: bender with no shouting instantly trigger a thirty nine stab
- 10:39Speaker 1: wooing frenzy from a man with a blank face.
- 10:41Speaker 2: It defies the script because it isn't road raised.
- 10:43Speaker 1: What is it?
- 10:44Speaker 2: Then, When a witness describes a face as blank as
- 10:47Speaker 2: a passport photo during an act of extreme repetitive violence,
- 10:51Speaker 2: they are describing profound psychiatric association.
- 10:55Speaker 1: Like he's not even there.
- 10:56Speaker 2: It's a complete detachment from reality. Think about the physic
- 11:00Speaker 2: cool exertion required to stab someone thirty nine times. It
- 11:03Speaker 2: takes immense cardiovascular energy. Yeah, we exhausting to exert that
- 11:07Speaker 2: much physical force while maintaining a completely flat, emotionless facial
- 11:12Speaker 2: expression indicates an effective flattening, which is a core symptom
- 11:16Speaker 2: of severe psychosis.
- 11:18Speaker 1: So he's not reacting to Don at all.
- 11:19Speaker 2: No, the attacker isn't interacting with the seventy nine year
- 11:22Speaker 2: old grandfather in front of him. He is entirely consumed
- 11:25Speaker 2: by a delusion or a perceived threat that exists solely
- 11:29Speaker 2: inside his own mind.
- 11:30Speaker 1: So the crash was just the excuse.
- 11:31Speaker 2: The minor crash was just an external trigger, a match
- 11:35Speaker 2: dropped into a massive internal powder keg of paranoia.
- 11:38Speaker 1: Don tries desperately to defend himself. He attempts to get
- 11:41Speaker 1: daily into a bear hug, trying to pin his arms
- 11:43Speaker 1: to stop the blade.
- 11:44Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking.
- 11:45Speaker 1: He is screaming out, help get off me, yeah, and
- 11:47Speaker 1: Daily just coldly responds, die you using.
- 11:50Speaker 2: An explotive, just completely cold.
- 11:53Speaker 1: Don sustains thirty nine stab wounds across his neck, back
- 11:56Speaker 1: and torso. He eventually manages to retreat towards car, but
- 12:01Speaker 1: slumps over next to it.
- 12:02Speaker 2: And then what does Daily do?
- 12:04Speaker 1: Daily then stops. He crouches down, calmly looks up and
- 12:07Speaker 1: down the road to check for traffic or police, gets
- 12:10Speaker 1: back into his dented Ford and wheel spins away from
- 12:13Speaker 1: the scene. Whoa and eyewitness later testified that Don's wounds
- 12:17Speaker 1: were so catastrophic he was likely dead before he even
- 12:20Speaker 1: hit the ground.
- 12:21Speaker 2: The juxtaposition there is staggering. The frenzied violence followed immediately
- 12:25Speaker 2: by calmly checking for traffic, checking both ways like a
- 12:28Speaker 2: normal driver exactly. It shows a mind that is oscillating
- 12:32Speaker 2: wildly between extreme psychotic action and a bizarre disjointed at
- 12:36Speaker 2: humans to normal everyday rules like checking both ways before
- 12:40Speaker 2: pulling out into the road.
- 12:41Speaker 1: Which makes the ensuing manhunt incredibly tense. DSi Adam Hibbert
- 12:45Speaker 1: of the Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team immediately launches
- 12:48Speaker 1: a massive, fast paced operation.
- 12:50Speaker 2: They had to move fast.
- 12:51Speaker 1: They release a description to the public looking for a
- 12:54Speaker 1: white male aged thirty to forty, about six feet tall,
- 12:57Speaker 1: with a skinny frame and shoulder length wavy, dark blonde
- 13:00Speaker 1: or brown hair. DSi Hibbert issues a public plea making
- 13:04Speaker 1: it very clear they are hunting an extremely dangerous individual
- 13:08Speaker 1: who likely has a substantial amount of blood on him.
- 13:11Speaker 1: They deployed crime scene investigators that were conducting fingertip searches
- 13:14Speaker 1: of the A twenty four looking for any shred of
- 13:17Speaker 1: forensic evidence.
- 13:18Speaker 2: But despite all of that, the massive police mobilization, the
- 13:23Speaker 2: forensic teams scouring the highway, the breakthrough in this case
- 13:27Speaker 2: doesn't come from a tire track or dropped piece of evidence. No,
- 13:30Speaker 2: it comes from a living room.
- 13:31Speaker 1: It comes from Matthew Day's mother, Linda Daily. She is
- 13:34Speaker 1: at home that evening watching the local news unfold on television.
- 13:37Speaker 1: They are reporting on a fatal stabbing on the A
- 13:39Speaker 1: twenty four involving minor car crash, and she just knows,
- 13:43Speaker 1: She gets this terrible sinking feeling in the pit of
- 13:46Speaker 1: her stomach. She just inherently knows her son is involved.
- 13:48Speaker 2: That intuition is terrifying.
- 13:50Speaker 1: She tries calling his phone, but she can't get through.
- 13:54Speaker 1: Driven by this dread, she drives out to the remote
- 13:57Speaker 1: stables where Matthew works. She finds his Ford Fusion park there,
- 14:00Speaker 1: and when she walks around to the back of it,
- 14:02Speaker 1: she sees the fresh dent in the bumper.
- 14:05Speaker 2: Oh my god, her worst fear realized.
- 14:08Speaker 1: Her panic peaks. She makes the agonizing unthinkable decision to
- 14:12Speaker 1: go to the Worthing police station, and right as she arrives,
- 14:16Speaker 1: literally as she is about to walk through the doors
- 14:18Speaker 1: of the station, her.
- 14:20Speaker 2: Phone rings and it's him. It Matthew.
- 14:23Speaker 1: The content of that phone call is staggering in its
- 14:25Speaker 1: emotional detachment.
- 14:27Speaker 2: He speaks to his mother and says, I killed someone.
- 14:30Speaker 2: I want you to think about what I just said
- 14:31Speaker 2: and ring me back in ten minutes.
- 14:33Speaker 1: Let's dissect the psychology of that demand for a second.
- 14:35Speaker 2: Yeah, please, because it's so strange.
- 14:37Speaker 1: He is calling his mother to confess to a murder,
- 14:40Speaker 1: but he is dictating the terms of her emotional realization.
- 14:44Speaker 1: He is essentially assigning her psychological homework.
- 14:47Speaker 2: Like process this trauma and report back to me, exactly
- 14:50Speaker 2: process this on my schedule. It shows a complete inability
- 14:55Speaker 2: to empathize with the devastating impact his words are having
- 14:58Speaker 2: on his own mother. He views her emotional response as
- 15:01Speaker 2: something that needs to be managed and scheduled according to
- 15:04Speaker 2: his own rigid internal timeline.
- 15:08Speaker 1: I want you to put yourself in Linda's shoes for
- 15:10Speaker 1: a second. Imagine that immense, crushing burden. Your maternal intuition
- 15:16Speaker 1: leads you to your son's dented car. You drive to
- 15:20Speaker 1: a police station to report your own child for a brutal,
- 15:23Speaker 1: random murder, and he calls to casually confirm it while
- 15:27Speaker 1: you're standing in the parking lot, asking you to call.
- 15:29Speaker 2: Him back in ten minutes, like you just told you
- 15:31Speaker 2: he got a new job.
- 15:31Speaker 1: It is unfathomable, but it also speaks to a long history.
- 15:35Speaker 1: Linda didn't just guess this out of nowhere. Her intuition
- 15:37Speaker 1: didn't just appear that night, no at all. She'd been
- 15:40Speaker 1: living with a sinking feeling for years. She knew her
- 15:43Speaker 1: son's mind was dangerous.
- 15:44Speaker 2: That is exactly the tragedy of her position. She had
- 15:47Speaker 2: been living in a state of chronic hypervigilance for a decade.
- 15:50Speaker 2: She's constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop, constantly
- 15:53Speaker 2: monitoring his moods, his paranoias.
- 15:56Speaker 1: So when she saw the news.
- 15:57Speaker 2: When she saw the news report about a minor traffic
- 15:59Speaker 2: incident turning into a senseless stabbing, her brain immediately connected
- 16:03Speaker 2: the dots because she knew his psychological profile.
- 16:06Speaker 1: Intimately following Linda's devastating tip, armed officers rapidly deployed to
- 16:11Speaker 1: a nearby golf course at two pm the next day.
- 16:15Speaker 1: They locate Matthew hiding in some bushes.
- 16:17Speaker 2: And they arrest him.
- 16:18Speaker 1: They arrest him, and his demeanor during the arrest is
- 16:22Speaker 1: entirely detached. When an armed officer asks him if he
- 16:26Speaker 1: understands why he's being taken into custody, Matthew calmly replies,
- 16:30Speaker 1: someone crashed into the back of my car.
- 16:32Speaker 2: He doesn't even mention the murder.
- 16:34Speaker 1: No, he mentions the minor inconvenience. He also calmly informs
- 16:37Speaker 1: the officers that the murder weapon, the four point five
- 16:40Speaker 1: inch knife, is sitting right there in his rucksack. Wow,
- 16:44Speaker 1: but we need to look deeply at that rucksack and
- 16:46Speaker 1: his timeline between the murder and the arrest, because his
- 16:49Speaker 1: post incident behavior is genuinely bizarre.
- 16:51Speaker 2: And bizarre isn't used here as a casual adjective. It
- 16:55Speaker 2: is the clinical reality of a shattered mind manifesting in
- 16:57Speaker 2: physical actions.
- 16:59Speaker 1: Right after violently stabbing down Lock thirty nine times, Matthew
- 17:04Speaker 1: drove back to his flat. He washed himself off, He
- 17:07Speaker 1: took his blood soak clothes and casually dumped them in
- 17:09Speaker 1: a neighbor's wheelly bin. And then and then he packed
- 17:12Speaker 1: a runaway bag. He is planning to flee and go
- 17:16Speaker 1: on the run forever. But what does he pack?
- 17:18Speaker 2: This is the part that is just so telling.
- 17:20Speaker 1: He doesn't pack a disguise or bundles of cash or
- 17:23Speaker 1: survival gear. He packs a framed picture of his pet horse, Honey,
- 17:27Speaker 1: a framed picture. He packs the horse's official passport, and
- 17:31Speaker 1: he packs fourteen classic Leslie Howard movies.
- 17:34Speaker 2: Let's really analyze the contents of that bag, because it
- 17:37Speaker 2: is a window directly into a psychotic break.
- 17:40Speaker 1: Yup. Please, If a.
- 17:41Speaker 2: Rational, neurotypical criminal is going on the run after a murder,
- 17:44Speaker 2: they packed strategically. They grab burner phones, cash, a change
- 17:48Speaker 2: of clothes, maybe a secondary.
- 17:49Speaker 1: Weapon, basic survival stuff.
- 17:51Speaker 2: Right, Matthew packs a horse's passport and a collection of
- 17:55Speaker 2: nineteen thirties black and white films. This illustrates a profound fragmentation.
- 17:59Speaker 1: Of the mind because he knows he needs to run.
- 18:01Speaker 2: Yes, he understands on some base level that he needs
- 18:04Speaker 2: to flee, hence packing a bag and hiding in the bushes.
- 18:08Speaker 2: Yet his executive functioning, the part of the brain responsible
- 18:11Speaker 2: for logical planning and prioritization, is completely destroyed.
- 18:16Speaker 1: So why those specific items? Why Leslie Howard movies?
- 18:19Speaker 2: When a mind is experiencing the sheer, terrifying chaos of
- 18:23Speaker 2: acute psychosis, it often desperately clings to highly specific, rigid
- 18:28Speaker 2: fixations to maintain some illusion of control, like a comfort
- 18:32Speaker 2: blanket exactly. Animals and classic predictable movies might represent safety,
- 18:37Speaker 2: routine and a low sensory environment compared to the terrifying
- 18:41Speaker 2: auditory hallucinations he was suffering from. And the passport, the
- 18:44Speaker 2: horse passport is incredibly telling. I mean, it's an official
- 18:47Speaker 2: document of identity for an animal packed by a man
- 18:50Speaker 2: who has completely lost his own identity. His calm demeanor
- 18:53Speaker 2: during the arrest juxtaposed with this absurd survival kit, shows
- 18:56Speaker 2: that the logic center of his brain has effectively short circuited.
- 19:00Speaker 1: So how does a human mind short circuit to that
- 19:03Speaker 1: extreme degree. How do you end up in a bush
- 19:06Speaker 1: with a horse passport after executing a grandfather over a
- 19:09Speaker 1: fender bender.
- 19:09Speaker 2: It's a long decline.
- 19:11Speaker 1: The source material dies into Matthew Daily's history, revealing a
- 19:14Speaker 1: horrific decade of mental decline. Growing up, Matthew was actually
- 19:19Speaker 1: described by everyone as an ideal.
- 19:21Speaker 2: Child, quiet well behaved.
- 19:23Speaker 1: Yeah. His mental health only began to severely, noticeably deteriorate
- 19:28Speaker 1: while he was studying architecture at the University of Portsmouth,
- 19:32Speaker 1: and this deterioration coincided with a major life stressor the
- 19:36Speaker 1: breakdown of his parents'.
- 19:37Speaker 2: Marriage, which perfectly aligns with the standard psychiatric models for
- 19:41Speaker 2: the onset of severe mental illness. The late teens to
- 19:45Speaker 2: early twenties is the absolute prime developmental window for the
- 19:49Speaker 2: onset of disorders like schizophrenia.
- 19:50Speaker 1: Why is that specific age range so vulnerable.
- 19:53Speaker 2: It has to do with how the brain matures. During
- 19:55Speaker 2: your late teens and early twenties. The brain undergoes massive
- 19:58Speaker 2: structural changes, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, which is what
- 20:02Speaker 2: it handles complex decision making and social behavior. There is
- 20:06Speaker 2: a concept in psychology called the diathesis stress model. Diathesis
- 20:10Speaker 2: stress Yeah, diathesis means a biological or genetic vulnerability. Someone
- 20:16Speaker 2: might be born with the genetic markers for schizophrenia, but
- 20:19Speaker 2: they can go through their whole childhood perfectly fine.
- 20:22Speaker 1: Never showing a single symptom exactly.
- 20:24Speaker 2: But then during that critical brain development window of the
- 20:27Speaker 2: late teens, you introduce a massive environmental stressor like the divorce.
- 20:32Speaker 2: In Matthew's case, the emotional trauma of his parent's bitter
- 20:36Speaker 2: divorce combined with the academic pressure of a rigorous architecture degree.
- 20:41Speaker 2: That stress acts as the trigger.
- 20:43Speaker 1: It flips the swich, it.
- 20:44Speaker 2: Flips the genetic switch, and the underlying vulnerability rapidly manifest
- 20:48Speaker 2: into full blown psychiatric.
- 20:50Speaker 1: Symptoms, and manifest it did. Matthew was first referred to
- 20:53Speaker 1: community mental health services in two thousand and eight. But
- 20:57Speaker 1: here is the critical pivot point of this entire track
- 21:00Speaker 1: and turning point, the fork in the road that doomed
- 21:02Speaker 1: both Matthew Daily and Don Locke. The community mental health
- 21:06Speaker 1: teams treated to Matthew for Asperger's syndrome, which falls under
- 21:09Speaker 1: the autism spectrum along with bows of psychosis. However, years later,
- 21:14Speaker 1: a forensic psychiatrist who comprehensively assessed him. After the murder,
- 21:18Speaker 1: doctor Rodrick Eliot confirmed that Matthew had been disastrously misdiagnosed. Disastrously,
- 21:25Speaker 1: he didn't just have aspergers, he actually suffered from an underlying,
- 21:28Speaker 1: severely untreated paranoid schizophrenic illness.
- 21:32Speaker 2: This misdiagnosis is the foundational error of the entire case.
- 21:36Speaker 2: It is a textbook example of a phenomenon called diagnostic
- 21:40Speaker 2: over shattering.
- 21:42Speaker 1: Let's break that down. Because autism and paranoid schizophrenia seem
- 21:45Speaker 1: like vastly different conditions.
- 21:47Speaker 2: They do.
- 21:47Speaker 1: Yeah, how does a team of medical professionals mix them
- 21:50Speaker 1: up for decade?
- 21:51Speaker 2: To the late person, they sound completely different, But if
- 21:54Speaker 2: you look at the clinical presentation, there is a dangerous overlap,
- 21:57Speaker 2: specifically regarding what psychiatrists call the negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
- 22:02Speaker 1: Negative symptoms. What does that mean?
- 22:03Speaker 2: When people think of schizophrenia, they usually think of the
- 22:06Speaker 2: positive symptoms hallucinations, hearing voices, paranoid delusions, But schizophrenia also
- 22:11Speaker 2: has negative symptoms, which mean a lack of normal behaviors.
- 22:14Speaker 2: This includes a flat effect, having a blank a motionless face,
- 22:18Speaker 2: social withdrawal, a lack of eye contact, and poverty of speech,
- 22:22Speaker 2: meaning they get very short one word answers, oh wow.
- 22:26Speaker 1: And those negative symptoms look exactly like the social deficits
- 22:29Speaker 1: associated with autism spectrum disorder.
- 22:31Speaker 2: Precisely, if a patient with early onset schizophrenia sits in
- 22:35Speaker 2: a clinical assessment room, avoids eye contact, speaks in a
- 22:39Speaker 2: monotone voice, and seems deeply uncomfortable with social interaction, a
- 22:44Speaker 2: clinician might immediately categorize them as autistic, especially.
- 22:47Speaker 1: If the patient is highly intelligent, like an architecture student.
- 22:50Speaker 2: Exactly, the clinician assumes the patient's issue stem from sensory
- 22:54Speaker 2: overload or an inability to read social cues.
- 22:57Speaker 1: So they just missed the big picture.
- 22:58Speaker 2: Because they're viewing the through the lens of autism, they
- 23:01Speaker 2: might not probe deeply enough into the possibility of violent
- 23:04Speaker 2: paranoid delusions. They treat his paranoia as social anxiety.
- 23:09Speaker 1: That's a catastrophic mistake.
- 23:10Speaker 2: They fundamentally misunderstand the threat level he poses because autism
- 23:14Speaker 2: does not produce active, hostile auditory hallucinations dictating paranoid violence.
- 23:20Speaker 1: But the reality of his symptoms hidden beneath that diagnosis
- 23:24Speaker 1: was terrifying. The sources detail that Matthew was hearing voices
- 23:29Speaker 1: and we aren't talking about a faint, occasional whisper.
- 23:32Speaker 2: No, it was severe.
- 23:33Speaker 1: He was hearing twenty to thirty distinct voices at any
- 23:36Speaker 1: one time. He would hold his head in agony. His
- 23:39Speaker 1: family said, he looked as if his head would literally
- 23:42Speaker 1: explode from the noise.
- 23:43Speaker 2: Can you even imagine?
- 23:44Speaker 1: And the voices were hostile. They were telling him horrific,
- 23:47Speaker 1: distressing things, accusing him of being a pedophile, telling him
- 23:50Speaker 1: that random men were sleeping with his girlfriend.
- 23:52Speaker 2: Imagine the psychological torture of that, having thirty hostile voices
- 23:56Speaker 2: constantly screaming accusations and threats inside your own contents.
- 24:00Speaker 1: It's unbearable.
- 24:01Speaker 2: And because the medical system viewed him as an autistic
- 24:04Speaker 2: man struggling with anxiety, the interventions offered were likely entirely
- 24:08Speaker 2: inadequate for actively deteriorating paranoid schizophrenia.
- 24:11Speaker 1: With the medical system failing him, his own coping mechanisms
- 24:14Speaker 1: became increasingly erratic and desperate. At one point, he completely
- 24:18Speaker 1: stopped taking his prescribed antipsychotic medication for an entire year.
- 24:22Speaker 2: Which is incredibly dangerous.
- 24:24Speaker 1: And to manage this horrific illness, to deal with the
- 24:28Speaker 1: thirty voices, he started running, and I don't mean going
- 24:32Speaker 1: for a morning jog. He was running the equivalent of
- 24:34Speaker 1: two full marathons a week across the South Downs, two
- 24:37Speaker 1: marathons a week, and he would frequently do this accompanied
- 24:40Speaker 1: by his pet goats. A colleague at the remote stables
- 24:44Speaker 1: where he worked noted that Matthew once arrived in his
- 24:46Speaker 1: small forward fusion hatchback with three live goats in the.
- 24:50Speaker 2: Back, just driving around with them.
- 24:52Speaker 1: A mechanic who later worked on the car said it
- 24:54Speaker 1: smelled intensely of livestock.
- 24:57Speaker 2: That detail about the extreme running is fascinating. From a
- 25:00Speaker 2: neurobiological perspective. There is a prominent theory in psychiatry called
- 25:04Speaker 2: the dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia.
- 25:07Speaker 1: Dopamine hypothesis okay.
- 25:09Speaker 2: It suggests that psychotic symptoms like hearing voices are driven
- 25:12Speaker 2: by an overactive dopamine system in certain pathways of the brain.
- 25:16Speaker 2: Antipsychotic medications work by blocking those dopamine receptors.
- 25:20Speaker 1: So if he stops taking his medication, his dopamine level
- 25:23Speaker 1: skyrocket and the voices get worse.
- 25:25Speaker 2: Exactly, but extreme exhausting physical exertion like running two marathons
- 25:30Speaker 2: a week can temporarily deplete neurotransmitters and physically exhaust the
- 25:36Speaker 2: central nervous.
- 25:36Speaker 1: System, so he was self medicating. With running.
- 25:39Speaker 2: Matthew was likely unconsciously using extreme physical exhaustion to quiet
- 25:43Speaker 2: his mind. He was literally trying to outrun the voices in.
- 25:46Speaker 1: His head and the goats.
- 25:48Speaker 2: The inclusion of the goats speaks to his profound social isolation.
- 25:52Speaker 2: I mean, he found human interaction terrifying and unpredictable due
- 25:55Speaker 2: to his paranoia, but animals were safe, predictable companions.
- 26:00Speaker 1: She can't outrun schizophrenia forever. As he remained unmedicated and
- 26:04Speaker 1: his brain chemistry deteriorated, the internal suffering began to violently
- 26:08Speaker 1: spill outward into the real.
- 26:09Speaker 2: World it always does.
- 26:10Speaker 1: Eventually, when his mother Linda would drive him places, he
- 26:13Speaker 1: began suddenly grabbing the steering wheel, trying to force the
- 26:16Speaker 1: car to swerve into oncoming highway traffic. Just out of nowhere,
- 26:19Speaker 1: he started attacking random people in the street because his
- 26:23Speaker 1: delusions falsely convinced him that these strangers were talking about
- 26:27Speaker 1: him or plotting against him. He became increasingly physically violent
- 26:31Speaker 1: toward his long term partner and members of his own family.
- 26:34Speaker 2: We're seeing the terrifying progression of untreated paranoid schizophrenia here. Yes,
- 26:39Speaker 2: the delusions are no longer just internal noise. They have
- 26:43Speaker 2: hardened into an absolute conviction that the external world is
- 26:47Speaker 2: actively hunting him. So he fights back, and in his
- 26:50Speaker 2: severely distorted reality, grabbing the steering wheel or punching a
- 26:54Speaker 2: stranger on the street isn't unprovoked violence, you know, it
- 26:58Speaker 2: is preemptive self defense. He is attacking the world because
- 27:01Speaker 2: his brain is telling him the world is attacking him.
- 27:03Speaker 1: Boy, I have to step in here and challenge the timeline.
- 27:06Speaker 1: We are talking about a man who went from being
- 27:08Speaker 1: a promising university architecture student to running marathons with goats,
- 27:13Speaker 1: transporting livestock in a small hatchback, trying to crash his
- 27:17Speaker 1: mother's car into oncoming traffic, and assaulting random pedestrians.
- 27:21Speaker 2: Right, it's a huge escalation.
- 27:22Speaker 1: How does a medical professional look at that escalating pattern
- 27:26Speaker 1: of bizarre violent behavior and say, yes, this is just
- 27:29Speaker 1: a young man struggling with autism and social anxiety. Why
- 27:32Speaker 1: didn't the medical system hit the emergency brake.
- 27:34Speaker 2: That is the core tragedy of this case, and it
- 27:37Speaker 2: highlights a massive flaw in how community mental health care
- 27:40Speaker 2: is structured. The system relies heavily, almost entirely on patient
- 27:45Speaker 2: self reporting and cooperation during brief, infrequent clinical visits.
- 27:49Speaker 1: So if Matthew goes into a twenty minute appointment and says,
- 27:52Speaker 1: I'm doing okay.
- 27:53Speaker 2: Tick a box, unfortunately, yes, it often happens exactly that way.
- 27:57Speaker 2: Patients with schizophrenia can sometimes ask their symptoms for short periods,
- 28:01Speaker 2: especially if they lack insight into their illness, a condition
- 28:04Speaker 2: called anosognotia anosognosia yeah, where the brain literally cannot recognize
- 28:09Speaker 2: its own dysfunction. Furthermore, the clinicians were operating under extreme
- 28:13Speaker 2: confirmation bias because of the file They had his file
- 28:16Speaker 2: It's at Asperger's, so they viewed every weird behavior through
- 28:20Speaker 2: that lens social isolation, autism, difficulty communicating autism.
- 28:25Speaker 1: They made the evidence fit the theory.
- 28:27Speaker 2: They were trapped in their own diagnostic framework, completely missing
- 28:31Speaker 2: the rapidly escalating danger, which.
- 28:33Speaker 1: Brings us to the most agonizing part of this story,
- 28:36Speaker 1: the systemic failure and the ignored warnings. Because the family
- 28:41Speaker 1: didn't just sit back and watch this happen. They weren't passive.
- 28:44Speaker 2: Observers, no they fought hard.
- 28:46Speaker 1: Matthew's parents, John and Linda Daily, pleaded with mental health
- 28:49Speaker 1: services for a full ten years to intervene. They repeatedly
- 28:54Speaker 1: begged the authorities to section him.
- 28:55Speaker 2: Let's explain what that means for listeners who might not
- 28:58Speaker 2: know the terminology. Oh right, yeah, refers to the UK
- 29:01Speaker 2: Mental Health Act. It allows medical professionals, usually with the police,
- 29:06Speaker 2: to involuntarily commit a person to a psychiatric hospital for
- 29:09Speaker 2: assessment and treatment against their will if they are deemed
- 29:12Speaker 2: a severe danger to themselves or the public.
- 29:15Speaker 1: And his parents were practically bugging for this to happen.
- 29:19Speaker 1: His father, John Daily, actually started keeping a highly detailed
- 29:23Speaker 1: daily journal to track Matthew's psychological.
- 29:26Speaker 2: Decline, a daily journal.
- 29:27Speaker 1: John later stated he kept the journal because he saw
- 29:30Speaker 1: his son's life expectations draining away day by day, and
- 29:34Speaker 1: he feared the absolute worst was coming. He said he
- 29:36Speaker 1: didn't want to look back in his eighties and ask himself,
- 29:39Speaker 1: what did I do to try and stop this? He
- 29:42Speaker 1: documented everything.
- 29:43Speaker 2: John Daily's journal is one of the most heartbreaking elements
- 29:46Speaker 2: of this entire case. It is a prophetic, desperate document,
- 29:50Speaker 2: it really is. It represents the utter agony of a
- 29:53Speaker 2: family acting like an immune system that knows a deadly
- 29:56Speaker 2: virus has invaded, but possesses absolutely no medical or legal
- 30:01Speaker 2: authority to fight it.
- 30:02Speaker 1: It's a great way to put it.
- 30:03Speaker 2: They can see the trajectory of the illness clearly because
- 30:06Speaker 2: they live with it twenty four to seven. But they
- 30:08Speaker 2: are essentially screaming into a bureaucratic void that refuses to listen, and.
- 30:12Speaker 1: The red flags they were documenting weren't subtle. In twenty twelve,
- 30:16Speaker 1: Matthew took a hammer and violently smashed the windscreen of
- 30:19Speaker 1: a car belonging to a friend of his father's.
- 30:21Speaker 2: Just totally unprovoked.
- 30:22Speaker 1: After destroying the car, he stood menacingly on the owner's doorstep,
- 30:26Speaker 1: still gripping the hammer. Sussex Police concerned they attended this violent,
- 30:30Speaker 1: terrifying incident. But here's the catastrophic failure.
- 30:33Speaker 2: This part is unbelievable.
- 30:35Speaker 1: A police spokesperson later admitted there was no record of
- 30:38Speaker 1: officers ever contacting Matthew's mental health team following that event,
- 30:42Speaker 1: even though John Daley vehemently insisted they had been informed.
- 30:46Speaker 2: Think about the institutional blindness required for that to happen.
- 30:50Speaker 2: A man with a known documented history of mental health issues,
- 30:54Speaker 2: wields a deadly weapon in a destructive, threatening manner over
- 30:58Speaker 2: a perceived slight, and the police don't automatically flag it
- 31:02Speaker 2: to his psychiatric care team.
- 31:04Speaker 1: It's just wild.
- 31:05Speaker 2: That siloed nature of government institutions where the police department's
- 31:08Speaker 2: computer doesn't talk to the NHS's computer, is a fatal flaw.
- 31:12Speaker 2: It allows highly dangerous individuals to slip right through the
- 31:16Speaker 2: cracks because nobody has the complete picture of their behavior.
- 31:19Speaker 1: It gets worse. In April twenty fourteen, a formal saintguarding
- 31:23Speaker 1: report is opened after Matthew contacts the police himself to
- 31:27Speaker 1: report hearing voices outside his flat.
- 31:29Speaker 2: He was asking for help in his own way.
- 31:31Speaker 1: He repeatedly called them, reporting that neighbors were aggressively swearing
- 31:35Speaker 1: at him. We know now, of course, that there were
- 31:37Speaker 1: no neighbors swearing.
- 31:38Speaker 2: You know.
- 31:39Speaker 1: These were his severe auditory hallucinations. The police actually did
- 31:42Speaker 1: have a meeting with his mental health team about this
- 31:45Speaker 1: and what came of that. The result of that meeting,
- 31:48Speaker 1: the police went to Matthew and formally warned him that
- 31:50Speaker 1: his frequent delusional calls could amount to the criminal offense
- 31:54Speaker 1: of wasting police time.
- 31:55Speaker 2: Oh my God.
- 31:56Speaker 1: Then they inexplicably closed his safeguarding file in September twenty fourteen,
- 32:02Speaker 1: simply because he hadn't called them again.
- 32:04Speaker 2: It is hard to overstate how damaging that response is.
- 32:07Speaker 2: You have a severely schizophrenic man who is absolutely terrified
- 32:11Speaker 2: of the hostile voices in his head. He reaches out
- 32:13Speaker 2: for help, and the authorities threatened to arrest him for
- 32:15Speaker 2: wasting their time.
- 32:17Speaker 1: It's the exact opposite of what he needed.
- 32:19Speaker 2: That doesn't cure the hallucinations, you know, it actively discourages
- 32:22Speaker 2: him from seeking help. It reinforces his paranoia that the
- 32:25Speaker 2: authorities are against him, pushing him further into total isolation,
- 32:29Speaker 2: and then closing the file. Closing the safeguarding file just
- 32:32Speaker 2: because he stopped calling. Any experienced psychiatric professional will tell
- 32:37Speaker 2: you that in severe mental illness, silence is often infinitely
- 32:40Speaker 2: more dangerous than noise, because it means they've given up exactly.
- 32:44Speaker 2: Silence usually means the patient has stopped asking for external
- 32:47Speaker 2: help and has retreated entirely into the dark logic of
- 32:50Speaker 2: their own delusions.
- 32:51Speaker 1: John Day knew that silence was dangerous. In twenty thirteen
- 32:55Speaker 1: and again in twenty fourteen. John wrote letters directly to
- 32:58Speaker 1: the NHS doctor's treating his son. He didn't mince words.
- 33:02Speaker 1: In one letter, he explicitly warned the doctors, I am
- 33:06Speaker 1: worried that it will end up with a fatality unless
- 33:09Speaker 1: Matthew gets help with his obsessional behavior and the voices.
- 33:12Speaker 2: A fatality, A fatality he used the exact word.
- 33:14Speaker 1: He predicted exactly what was going to happen.
- 33:16Speaker 2: This brings us to a massive ongoing philosophical and legal
- 33:20Speaker 2: friction in modern psychiatric care. Modern mental health systems quite
- 33:24Speaker 2: rightly want to avoid the horrific draconian institutionalization of the
- 33:29Speaker 2: nineteenth and twentieth century.
- 33:30Speaker 1: That's all worse.
- 33:31Speaker 2: They heavily privileged patient autonomy, civil liberties, and the right
- 33:35Speaker 2: to live freely in the community. But this case forces
- 33:39Speaker 2: us to ask, where is the line right? Why does
- 33:42Speaker 2: the system prioritize the civil liberties of an actively psychotic,
- 33:46Speaker 2: deteriorating patient over the clear documented desperate warnings of violence
- 33:52Speaker 2: from the family who spends every single day with him.
- 33:54Speaker 1: It's completely backwards.
- 33:56Speaker 2: The system treats the patient's self reporting as gospel and
- 33:59Speaker 2: the family's frantic warnings as a nuisance.
- 34:01Speaker 1: It is maddening looking at this timeline. It's the ultimate
- 34:04Speaker 1: Swiss cheese model of a disaster.
- 34:07Speaker 2: Yeah, the Swiss cheese model.
- 34:08Speaker 1: If you aren't familiar with that concept, it's used in
- 34:10Speaker 1: risk analysis. Imagine multiple slices of Swiss cheese stacked together.
- 34:15Speaker 1: The cheese represents safety nets and the holes represent flaws.
- 34:18Speaker 1: Usually the holes don't align, so the threat is stopped
- 34:21Speaker 1: by one of the layers. But in this case, every
- 34:24Speaker 1: single safety net, the police response to the hammer incident,
- 34:27Speaker 1: the NHS diagnostic team, the closed safeguarding files, the ignored letters,
- 34:32Speaker 1: every single slice had a massive hole in it, and
- 34:35Speaker 1: they all lined up perfectly to let Matthew Daily fall
- 34:38Speaker 1: straight through.
- 34:39Speaker 2: And he took Don Lock with him, and he took
- 34:41Speaker 2: Don Lock with him, and that perfect alignment of systemic
- 34:44Speaker 2: failures culminated in the weak of the murder, which can
- 34:47Speaker 2: only be described as a perfect storm of psychiatric environmental stressors.
- 34:52Speaker 1: Let's look closely at that specific week in July twenty fifteen,
- 34:56Speaker 1: Just two weeks before killing Don, Matthew crashed his CA
- 35:00Speaker 1: into a neighbor's vehicle. His mother, Linda actually had to
- 35:03Speaker 1: go over and warn the neighbor that Matthew didn't cope
- 35:06Speaker 1: well with confrontation, trying to manage the fallout.
- 35:09Speaker 2: She was still trying to manage his life.
- 35:11Speaker 1: One week before the murder, his girlfriend of five years
- 35:13Speaker 1: finally ended their on and off relationship, leaving him completely
- 35:17Speaker 1: emotionally unmoored.
- 35:18Speaker 2: That's a huge stressor huge.
- 35:21Speaker 1: His car, his primary mode of transport and seemingly a
- 35:24Speaker 1: safe space for him, failed its mot test, meaning it
- 35:27Speaker 1: wasn't legally roadworthy. And on top of all of this,
- 35:30Speaker 1: he was drowning and mounting financial debt. He was under immense, crushing,
- 35:33Speaker 1: multidirectional pressure.
- 35:35Speaker 2: And yet how did you describe it?
- 35:37Speaker 1: When the police later asked Matthew to describe the day
- 35:39Speaker 1: of the killing, he claimed it had been the happiest
- 35:42Speaker 1: day of his life.
- 35:43Speaker 2: That statement alone, calling the day of a brutal murder
- 35:46Speaker 2: amidst total personal collapse the happiest day of his life,
- 35:49Speaker 2: is a profound indicator of his complete detachment from reality.
- 35:53Speaker 1: Because objectively, everything was falling apart.
- 35:55Speaker 2: The external world around him is crumbling. You know, he
- 35:58Speaker 2: has no money, his relationship is over, his car's broken.
- 36:02Speaker 2: But internally, his psychosis has perhaps constructed a grand delusional narrative,
- 36:08Speaker 2: like a hero story in the Twisted logic of his schizophrenia.
- 36:11Speaker 2: Perhaps neutralizing the perceived thread of Don Locke gave him
- 36:15Speaker 2: a euphoric sense of victory or relief from the thirty
- 36:17Speaker 2: voices tormenting him. His internal reality was completely inverted from
- 36:22Speaker 2: objective reality.
- 36:24Speaker 1: This clash of realities brings us to the trial. Matthew
- 36:27Speaker 1: Daily is charged with murder and possession of a blated
- 36:30Speaker 1: article at the Old Bailey in London. He pleads not
- 36:33Speaker 1: guilty to murder, but his defense team admits to manslaughter
- 36:36Speaker 1: on the grounds of diminished responsibility, and the entire trial
- 36:40Speaker 1: really centers on dissecting Matthew's perspective of the event versus
- 36:44Speaker 1: the actual physical reality.
- 36:45Speaker 2: Because the function of the trial isn't to decide if
- 36:48Speaker 2: Matthew Daily killed Don Lock's there was no mystery there right,
- 36:52Speaker 2: he admitted it, he confessed to it, he had the weapon,
- 36:54Speaker 2: and there were eyewitnesses. The jury is tasked with a
- 36:57Speaker 2: much more complex, almost impossible. They have to decide the
- 37:01Speaker 2: exact legal status of his brain chemistry at the very
- 37:05Speaker 2: moment the knife entered Don's body. In months prior.
- 37:07Speaker 1: While the waiting trial, Matthew actually sent a bizarre handwritten
- 37:11Speaker 1: letter to BBC Studios in London, which was intercepted by
- 37:15Speaker 1: authorities and used as evidence in court.
- 37:17Speaker 2: What did he say in it?
- 37:18Speaker 1: In this letter and in his police interviews, Matthew's version
- 37:22Speaker 1: of the collision is wild. He claimed Don was driving
- 37:25Speaker 1: aggressively at sixty dollar hour, trying to run him down,
- 37:28Speaker 1: when the forensic evidence proved Dawn was doing sixteen.
- 37:30Speaker 2: Mill around total distortion.
- 37:32Speaker 1: Matthew explicitly said to the police when I drive, people
- 37:35Speaker 1: try and break into my.
- 37:36Speaker 2: Thoughts, break into my thoughts. That specific phrasing is critical.
- 37:39Speaker 2: It is a classic textbook symptom of schizophrenia known as
- 37:43Speaker 2: thought insertion or thought broadcasting.
- 37:45Speaker 1: Explain how that feels to the patient. How does a
- 37:48Speaker 1: car bumping your bumper equal someone breaking into your thoughts.
- 37:53Speaker 2: Think of the human brain's internal filtering system like a
- 37:56Speaker 2: radio receiver. Normally, your brain is tuned to your own
- 37:59Speaker 2: internal Monde monologue, and it can easily distinguish between your
- 38:02Speaker 2: own thoughts and the noise of the outside world. Right,
- 38:05Speaker 2: Schizophrenia essentially breaks the dial on that radio. The boundary
- 38:09Speaker 2: between the self and the external world dissolves.
- 38:12Speaker 1: So it all bleeds together.
- 38:14Speaker 2: A patient experiencing thought insertion genuinely believes that external forces,
- 38:19Speaker 2: the CIA aliens or in this case, a driver tailgating them,
- 38:23Speaker 2: are literally physically beaming thoughts into their brain against their will.
- 38:28Speaker 2: To Matthew, Don's car wasn't just close to his bumper,
- 38:31Speaker 2: you know, it was a psychic weapon, actively violating his consciousness.
- 38:35Speaker 1: He claimed he acted violently because Don was shouting and
- 38:37Speaker 1: swearing at him, But then he contradicted himself, saying that
- 38:40Speaker 1: because of his autism, the other sounds were silent and
- 38:43Speaker 1: he only saw pure anger on Don's face.
- 38:46Speaker 2: The story keeps shifting.
- 38:47Speaker 1: He claimed he stabbed Don simply to move his aggression away.
- 38:52Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 38:53Speaker 1: And the most chilling part of his psychiatric assessment. Yeah.
- 38:55Speaker 1: When he was interviewed by doctor Jacob Harvey, Matthew calmly stated,
- 39:00Speaker 1: I remained calm like Jesus Christ. I collapsed his lung.
- 39:03Speaker 2: Oh my god.
- 39:05Speaker 1: He even disturbingly noted that while Don was dying and
- 39:07Speaker 1: crying out for help, the seventy nine year old grandfather
- 39:10Speaker 1: sounded like a one year old boy, high pitched and curly.
- 39:15Speaker 2: The absolute lack of empathy in that description is harrowing.
- 39:18Speaker 2: He viewed Don not as a human being, a father,
- 39:21Speaker 2: or a grandfather, but as an aggressive, intrusive, non human
- 39:25Speaker 2: force that needed to be neutralized so Matthew could regain his.
- 39:28Speaker 1: Internal peace like a machine.
- 39:30Speaker 2: Comparing his own calmness to Jesus Christ while describing collapsing
- 39:33Speaker 2: a man's lung speaks to grandiose delusions, which very frequently
- 39:37Speaker 2: accompanies severe paranoia. He genuinely believed he was enacting a justified,
- 39:42Speaker 2: righteous defense.
- 39:43Speaker 1: So the trial essentially becomes a high stakes duel of
- 39:45Speaker 1: the psychiatric experts. On the defense side, you have doctor
- 39:48Speaker 1: Roder Collliot and doctor Michael Lawson. They argued vehemently that
- 39:52Speaker 1: the decade old Asperger's diagnosis was totally catastrophically wrong. They
- 39:57Speaker 1: testified that Matthew had severe paranoid's me gizophrenia, suffered from
- 40:01Speaker 1: chronically heightened anxiety, and acted impulsively due to an acute
- 40:05Speaker 1: psychotic episode triggered by the crash.
- 40:08Speaker 2: That aligns with everything we've talked about.
- 40:10Speaker 1: Doctor Lawson stated this untreated vulnerability made him far more
- 40:14Speaker 1: likely to perceive a threat and harm others. But on
- 40:17Speaker 1: the other side, you have the prosecutions expert, doctor.
- 40:19Speaker 2: Philip Joseph, and what did he argue?
- 40:22Speaker 1: He argued that, having considered all the evidence, Matthew was
- 40:25Speaker 1: not actively psychotic at the exact time of the killing.
- 40:28Speaker 2: The methodology of how doctor Joseph reached that conclusion is
- 40:31Speaker 2: fascinating and it shows how rigid legal psychiatry it can be.
- 40:35Speaker 2: How So, he pointed to the fact that Matthew didn't
- 40:37Speaker 2: explicitly claim that the thirty voices commanded him to kill
- 40:40Speaker 2: Dawn during the drive. Because there wasn't an active, documented
- 40:44Speaker 2: auditory command hallucination in that specific micromoment, Doctor Joseph argued,
- 40:49Speaker 2: Matthew wasn't in a state of psychosist severe enough to
- 40:52Speaker 2: entirely eliminate his legal responsibility for murder.
- 40:55Speaker 1: I have to pause and completely push back on the
- 40:57Speaker 1: framework of this legal process. Let's look at the facts.
- 41:01Speaker 1: A man is stabbed thirty nine times over a sixteen
- 41:04Speaker 1: mile per hour fender bender by a man whose face
- 41:06Speaker 1: looks like a passport photo ah. The killer then calmly
- 41:10Speaker 1: goes home, throws his clothes in a neighbor's bin, and
- 41:13Speaker 1: packs a bag with a horse's passport and fourteen vintage
- 41:17Speaker 1: black and white movies to go on the run.
- 41:18Speaker 2: The evidence of psychosis is overwhelming, exactly.
- 41:22Speaker 1: How is a jury of twelve regular people pulled off
- 41:25Speaker 1: the street supposed to weigh competing psychiatric testimonies and decide
- 41:29Speaker 1: if his brain chemistry makes it manslaughter instead of murder.
- 41:32Speaker 1: That feels like an utterly impossible, almost absurd task to
- 41:35Speaker 1: place on lay people.
- 41:36Speaker 2: It is an incredibly heavy, almost unfair burden to place
- 41:39Speaker 2: on a jury. The legal threshold in the UK for
- 41:42Speaker 2: diminished responsibility under the Homicide Act requires the defense to
- 41:45Speaker 2: prove that an abnormality of mental functioning substantially impair the
- 41:49Speaker 2: defendant's ability to understand their own conduct, former rational judgment,
- 41:54Speaker 2: or exercise self control.
- 41:55Speaker 1: Which sounds straightforward, But the.
- 41:57Speaker 2: Problem is that the legal system demands binary blacks and
- 42:00Speaker 2: white answers guilty or not guilty murder or manslaughter. The
- 42:05Speaker 2: law requires clean boxes.
- 42:07Speaker 1: And mental illness doesn't fit in a box exactly.
- 42:10Speaker 2: Mental illness, especially a decade of untreated, fluctuating paranoid schizophrenia,
- 42:15Speaker 2: exists in deep, chaotic shades of gray. The jury is
- 42:19Speaker 2: being forced to map a rigid, archaic legal definition of
- 42:22Speaker 2: culpability onto a fluid, deeply broken medical reality.
- 42:27Speaker 1: It's like comparing apples and I don't know a broken clock.
- 42:30Speaker 2: It is forensic psychiatry acting as archaeology, trying to dig
- 42:34Speaker 2: up the exact state of a broken mind. On a
- 42:36Speaker 2: random Thursday months ago.
- 42:38Speaker 1: After eight hours of agonizing the liberation, the jury returns
- 42:41Speaker 1: their verdict. They find Matthew Daily not guilty of murder,
- 42:45Speaker 1: but guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility. Wow. The
- 42:48Speaker 1: reaction inside of the courtroom is described as utterly devastating.
- 42:51Speaker 1: Don't family gasps, they break down in tears, and some
- 42:54Speaker 1: family members are so distressed they actually have to leave
- 42:56Speaker 1: the courtroom.
- 42:57Speaker 2: It must have been agonizing on the other side of
- 42:59Speaker 2: the aisle.
- 43:00Speaker 1: Matthew's parents and siblings weep loudly in the public gallery.
- 43:03Speaker 1: The emotional weight of the tragedy is so heavy that
- 43:06Speaker 1: even one of the jurors was seen crying as the
- 43:08Speaker 1: verdicts was read.
- 43:09Speaker 2: It is a verdict that provides a legal categorization, a
- 43:13Speaker 2: check mark, and a box for the justice system, but
- 43:16Speaker 2: it provides absolutely zero emotional resolution. Both families are utterly
- 43:21Speaker 2: destroyed in that courtroom, trapped in their own distinct nightmares.
- 43:24Speaker 1: Which leads us to the aftermath, the search for accountability
- 43:28Speaker 1: and the lasting legacy of Don Locke for sentencing. The
- 43:31Speaker 1: judge hands Matthew a life sentence with a minimum term
- 43:34Speaker 1: of ten years, but crucially based on the manslaughter verdict,
- 43:38Speaker 1: he is ordered to be detained at Hellingley Center, which
- 43:40Speaker 1: is a medium secure psychiatric hospital in East Sussex under
- 43:43Speaker 1: the Mental Health Act. The judge stipulates that he can
- 43:47Speaker 1: only ever be moved to a standard prison if its
- 43:49Speaker 1: psychiatric treatment is no longer deemed necessary.
- 43:51Speaker 2: This sentence perfectly reflects the complicated nature of the manslaughter verdict.
- 43:56Speaker 2: It prioritizes psychiatric containment, public safety and intensive treatment over
- 44:00Speaker 2: purely punitive retributive incarceration.
- 44:03Speaker 1: So they recognize he's sick.
- 44:05Speaker 2: Yes, it is a justice system formally acknowledging that while
- 44:08Speaker 2: he committed a horrific act, his severe, untreated mental illness
- 44:12Speaker 2: was the primary engine of the crime, not calculated malice.
- 44:17Speaker 1: Following the trial, in the media outcry, the chief executive
- 44:20Speaker 1: of the Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust did something you
- 44:24Speaker 1: almost never see from a major institution.
- 44:26Speaker 2: Wow sat.
- 44:27Speaker 1: He issued a very public, unreserved apology. He bluntly admitted
- 44:31Speaker 1: that they failed Matthew. Daily. The Trust admitted they failed
- 44:35Speaker 1: to carry out a formal proper schizophrenia diagnosis over an
- 44:39Speaker 1: entire decade.
- 44:39Speaker 2: That is a massive admission.
- 44:41Speaker 1: They admitted they made fatally flawed assumptions based on the
- 44:44Speaker 1: initial autism diagnosis, and most importantly, they explicitly admitted they
- 44:48Speaker 1: failed to listen to the family's desperate warnings. Sinly an
- 44:52Speaker 1: NHS England independent report generated twenty one distinct recommendations for improvement,
- 44:57Speaker 1: and perhaps the most shocking revelation all the report note
- 45:00Speaker 1: that the trust was commissioning a thematic review into ten
- 45:02Speaker 1: separate killings involving their psychiatric pations between twenty eleven and
- 45:06Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Ten killings in five years.
- 45:09Speaker 2: Ten killings. While at public apology and a thematic review
- 45:13Speaker 2: are absolutely necessary steps for institutional reform, that statistic exposes
- 45:19Speaker 2: a terrifying culture of systemic arrogance and bureaucratic inertia in
- 45:23Speaker 2: the medical field.
- 45:24Speaker 1: It an excuse me.
- 45:25Speaker 2: The fact that it took ten separate homicides over a
- 45:28Speaker 2: five year period for a massive healthcare trust to realize
- 45:31Speaker 2: they had a fatal systemic issue with assessing risk and
- 45:34Speaker 2: listening to families is a damning indictment of their protocols.
- 45:38Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable.
- 45:39Speaker 2: It shows a system that was fundamentally broken, prioritizing its
- 45:43Speaker 2: own diagnostic paperwork over the reality of the danger playing
- 45:46Speaker 2: out in the community.
- 45:47Speaker 1: It is enraging the NHS issuing twenty one recommendations and
- 45:51Speaker 1: doing a deep dive ory after all of this. I mean,
- 45:54Speaker 1: think about it like civil engineering. It is like the
- 45:57Speaker 1: city installing a traffic light at a busy danger intersection
- 46:00Speaker 1: only after a massive fatal pile up. Yes, instelling the
- 46:05Speaker 1: light is the right thing to do to prevent future crashes,
- 46:08Speaker 1: but it offers absolutely zero comfort, zero justice to the
- 46:12Speaker 1: victims whose lives were already destroyed because the light wasn't
- 46:15Speaker 1: there to begin with.
- 46:15Speaker 2: It's too late for them.
- 46:17Speaker 1: John Daly, Matthew's father, stated very bluntly to the press
- 46:20Speaker 1: that the NHS lied to them for years and that
- 46:23Speaker 1: his son's life and Don's life were ruined entirely unnecessarily
- 46:28Speaker 1: because of the trust's catastrophic failures.
- 46:30Speaker 2: We are looking at a profound dual tragedy. Here you
- 46:33Speaker 2: have the Locke family, whose vibrant, loving patriarch was stolen
- 46:38Speaker 2: from them by an act of random, horrific violence that
- 46:41Speaker 2: they could never have anticipated. Right and On the other side,
- 46:44Speaker 2: you have the Daily family, whose tragedy is compounded by
- 46:47Speaker 2: the agonizing, suffocating knowledge that they saw this exact outcome
- 46:52Speaker 2: coming for ten years.
- 46:53Speaker 1: They predicted it, They.
- 46:54Speaker 2: Tried every single thing in their power to prevent it.
- 46:56Speaker 2: They begged the authorities and the institutions designed to protect
- 46:59Speaker 2: the society simply refuse to listen.
- 47:02Speaker 1: The anger from the log family is palpable and completely understandable.
- 47:06Speaker 1: Don's daughter, Sandra, actually refused to attend the sentencing hearing.
- 47:10Speaker 2: I can't blame her.
- 47:11Speaker 1: She stated publicly that she couldn't forgive Daily, and she
- 47:14Speaker 1: was deeply angered that, in her eyes, severe mental illness
- 47:18Speaker 1: had been reduced to an excuse under the law. She
- 47:21Speaker 1: articulated a feeling that many victims' families share in cases
- 47:24Speaker 1: of diminished responsibility.
- 47:25Speaker 2: What did she say?
- 47:26Speaker 1: She said, The way the law works is it's almost
- 47:29Speaker 1: like that means it doesn't matter as a person, because, oh, well,
- 47:33Speaker 1: you've got an excuse.
- 47:34Speaker 2: Her anger is entirely justified and highlights the immense gap
- 47:37Speaker 2: between legal theory and human grief for the surviving victims
- 47:41Speaker 2: of a brutal crime. The complex nuances of psychiatric diagnoses,
- 47:46Speaker 2: dopamine pathways and legal definitions of culpability feel like insulting
- 47:50Speaker 2: academic technicalities.
- 47:52Speaker 1: It doesn't bring him back.
- 47:53Speaker 2: No, they do not minimize the brutal, bloody reality of
- 47:56Speaker 2: their loss. To the family, The legal system's focus on
- 48:00Speaker 2: killer's mind feels like an erasure of the victim's suffer.
- 48:03Speaker 1: But Don Locke's family and his entire community made absolutely
- 48:07Speaker 1: sure that the brutality of his death did not okayyy
- 48:10Speaker 1: of the immense beauty and impact of his life.
- 48:12Speaker 2: They really honored him.
- 48:13Speaker 1: The outpouring of love was staggering. Over two thousand people
- 48:17Speaker 1: lined the streets of Worthing for his funeral. A procession
- 48:20Speaker 1: of more than two hundred cyclists accompanied his hearse through the.
- 48:23Speaker 2: Town that givesmeat chills.
- 48:25Speaker 1: When they arrived at the crematorium, the members of his
- 48:28Speaker 1: cycling club formed a massive guard of honor, raising their
- 48:31Speaker 1: front bicycle wheels into the air to create a beautiful
- 48:34Speaker 1: archway for his coffin to pass under.
- 48:36Speaker 2: Wow, what a tribute.
- 48:39Speaker 1: His coffin was draped proudly in the blue and white
- 48:41Speaker 1: flag of his beloved Brighton and Hove ALBIONFC. The community
- 48:45Speaker 1: even raised money and unveiled a permanent commemorative sculpture on
- 48:49Speaker 1: the local promenade in his honor. At the service, his
- 48:52Speaker 1: son Andrew delivered a tribute saying Don was the oil
- 48:56Speaker 1: that removed any friction in their family's lives.
- 48:58Speaker 2: That is a profound, beautiful metaphor. It speaks to a
- 49:02Speaker 2: man who didn't just exist in his community, but actively
- 49:04Speaker 2: smoothed the rough edges of life for everyone around him.
- 49:08Speaker 2: He brought joy, he brought energy, and he brought peace
- 49:10Speaker 2: to his family.
- 49:11Speaker 1: I want you, our listener, to just reflect on that
- 49:14Speaker 1: legacy for a second. Think about the incredible fragility of
- 49:17Speaker 1: the lives we are building every day. Don's sun made
- 49:20Speaker 1: a heartbreaking observation during his tribute. He noted that when
- 49:23Speaker 1: a loved one slowly declines from old as or ill health,
- 49:27Speaker 1: you get a final window of time. You get a
- 49:29Speaker 1: chance to put things right, to have one last deep chat,
- 49:32Speaker 1: to say goodbye.
- 49:33Speaker 2: You get closure.
- 49:34Speaker 1: But with Don, they never got a chance for one
- 49:37Speaker 1: last hugg or one last joke. It simply disappeared in
- 49:40Speaker 1: an instant, violently, on a completely normal summer evening. It
- 49:44Speaker 1: is a stark, terrifying reminder of how quickly our comfortable,
- 49:48Speaker 1: mundane normality can be shattered without warning.
- 49:51Speaker 2: It is incredibly sobering. It forces us to appreciate the
- 49:54Speaker 2: mundane moments we usually complain about.
- 49:56Speaker 1: Yeah, So, as we wrap up, let's briefly look back
- 49:59Speaker 1: at this incredible, heavy journey. We started with a sixteen
- 50:02Speaker 1: moliple rr fender bender on the A twenty four. We
- 50:05Speaker 1: traced how the physics of that minor bump collided with
- 50:08Speaker 1: the broken neurobiology of a man whose mind had been
- 50:10Speaker 1: unraveling for a decade.
- 50:12Speaker 2: Yeah, a decade of miss signs.
- 50:14Speaker 1: We uncovered a ten year trail of ignored psychiatric warnings,
- 50:17Speaker 1: desperate letters from a father predicting a fatality, and a
- 50:20Speaker 1: medical system paralyzed by its own flawed diagnostic assumptions. And
- 50:25Speaker 1: we ended in a courtroom watching two devastated families weep
- 50:29Speaker 1: as the legal system tried to neatly categorize the chaotic,
- 50:32Speaker 1: destructive reality of severe mental illness.
- 50:36Speaker 2: And as we close this deep dive, I want to
- 50:38Speaker 2: leave you the listener, with a final provocative thought.
- 50:41Speaker 1: Tom all over, go ahead.
- 50:42Speaker 2: This case forces us to ask a deeply uncomfortable question
- 50:45Speaker 2: about the structure of our modern society. In our noble
- 50:49Speaker 2: progressive effort to protect the civil liberties and autonomy of
- 50:52Speaker 2: those suffering from severe mental illness. In our desire to
- 50:55Speaker 2: ensure they aren't locked away unnecessarily, have we inadvertently created
- 50:59Speaker 2: a system that is entirely deaf to the people who
- 51:01Speaker 2: love them the most.
- 51:02Speaker 1: That's the real question.
- 51:03Speaker 2: If a father's written, desperate, accurate prediction of a fatal
- 51:07Speaker 2: attack isn't enough to trigger an emergency intervention, who is
- 51:10Speaker 2: the system actually protecting?
- 51:12Speaker 1: That is a heavy, vital question and one we only
- 51:15Speaker 1: need to be thinking about as we evaluate the institutions
- 51:18Speaker 1: we fund and rely on, Because it's not just about
- 51:21Speaker 1: one isolated tragedy, you know, It's about the safety nets
- 51:24Speaker 1: we all assume will be there when that bumper taps
- 51:26Speaker 1: at sixteen miles per hour. We encourage you to keep
- 51:29Speaker 1: asking the hard questions, keep looking out for the people
- 51:31Speaker 1: in your life, listen to the warnings, and we will
- 51:33Speaker 1: see you on the next deep dive.