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The Hart Family Murders: Behind the Viral Image · PNW Haunts & Homicides

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If it weren't for how things ended, the couple might be remembered as being a nearly unequaled
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example of unconditional love and inclusion, a family formed out of genuine desire for
0:14
connection.
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Instead, they'll go down in history as a horrific example of just how malicious the unchecked
0:22
abuse of two women help end on being white saviors really can be.
0:37
Okay, just start intro.
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We've only done it like almost 200 times.
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Yep.
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At least almost.
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Okay.
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Hi, Cassie.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
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Hi, creepy people.
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Hello!
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Helloooo.
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We did it.
1:02
It's like there's an audience in the room or something.
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What?
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Weird.
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Whoa.
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This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and the
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whole thing spooky in the Pacific Northwest.
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PNW, if you're nasty.
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Yeah, and you are.
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We know it.
1:27
We've heard about you.
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We do a terrible reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into
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whatever we're talking about that day.
1:36
Yes, we do.
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We love it.
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Actually, I've got our deck charging as we speak.
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Okay.
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Ready to go.
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How do we charge that dick?
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Selenite.
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Selenite.
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I couldn't tell if that question was rhetorical.
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So I mean, it was kind of for anyone who doesn't know, I guess, what we're talking about.
2:01
I know.
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That's what I realized.
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I got partway through and was like, oh, I think she's actually asking.
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Asking for a friend.
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Yeah.
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For my creepy friends, all of you.
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All of your creepy friends.
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Should I do a little show off of my shirt?
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It's kind of in frame mostly.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Let's tell people what it says if they're not watching.
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Yes.
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It says, it's not a crime to be gay unless you're a murderer.
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That is true.
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Beyond the Rainbow podcast, BTR.
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If you're nasty.
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Thank you, CJ.
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Yes.
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They gave us so much swag.
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We've got all of the swag.
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I brought my witchy hoodie to her tonight.
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And you'll notice that I put on your side of the altar.
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Obviously, our fabulous candles, which I've been dying to show off, but on your side, I
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specifically put a pumpkin.
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Oh, thank you.
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You're so welcome.
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I put my little piggy out and my, I think it's lace, I get my heart with a little drossy
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hole.
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Oh, that girl.
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It's pretty.
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Pretty.
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I got a little evil eye out, which is funny because I looked at my bracelets today and I looked
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at the evil eye one to grab, but it was like blue and it didn't go with what I was wearing.
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So I was like, I don't want me that, but now I should have it.
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Dang it.
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I guess so.
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I also just in this moment, notice that the top of our candles, the little tin cover,
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it's an eyeball.
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It's an eyeball.
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It's an eyeball.
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It sees everything.
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It sees all.
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I'm also super excited because I put up my new shot.
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It's so cute.
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You got all your stuff and things all by my shows.
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I've got so many crystals.
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I'm realizing that with our video settings and stuff, you can't necessarily see everything
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that's on there.
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Super clearly.
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You can tell it's some widgee, shenanigans and whatnot.
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I'm enough to do some photos so that you can see everything.
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Yeah, some close up shots.
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The other thing, we've got a fun little cauldron.
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So when we go to light the candles for tarot, we got to set up the bubbling action.
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We'll see if my idea works.
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Okay.
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Because I think it looks cool.
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I'm excited.
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I'm excited for the altar today.
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So excited.
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Spooky season altars are fun.
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Yeah.
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I love it.
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All right.
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Well, speaking of things that we don't love, should I tell my case?
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I guess.
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If you must.
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All right.
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I'm going to start by reading you a summary of a report produced by the California Highway
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Patrol.
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Okay.
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So, you know, really juicy, not at all dry.
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Oh, yeah.
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Feel like you're lying.
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I mean, well, it's a report.
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So it does tend to be sort of like facts of the situation.
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And there's not a lot of emotion in it.
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That's where I come in.
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It's very emotional.
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Yeah.
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I'm feeling all of the things.
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So on March 26, 2018, at approximately 1538 hours.
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Side note, 338 PM.
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For those of us not exclaiming urah or kua throughout the day, those apparently are
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the different branches of the military.
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And they both have their own sort of call like, yeah, but what's ours?
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I don't know.
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I feel like BMW if you're nasty.
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That's not that's kind of too long to be a call.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Creepy people.
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Hello.
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Hello.
6:00
Oh, it is.
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Hello.
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We figured it out.
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Oh, we got there.
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Okay.
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The Yucaya Communications Center received an emergency call from a passing tourist.
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Kirsten Pelser of Germany.
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I think I'm saying that right.
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We're going to go with it.
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Pelser advised she was at the one Creek crossing on Highway 1 in Mendocino County.
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She advised there was a brown vehicle on its roof down the embankment in the ocean.
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Oh, that's bad.
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Yes.
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Knowing what I do now and especially knowing your reaction to that statement, I kind of feel
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like an asshole for focusing on a detail like who buys a brown car.
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Right.
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I was like, what shade of brown?
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I mean, you know, there are people in the world that they're
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favorite color is brown, which is fine.
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I feel like I'm just picturing kind of the old station wagon.
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Yeah.
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Sort of a vibe.
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I guess that's wood paneling, but that it's brown.
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I don't know.
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I really, I got, I got a got side track there.
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You, uh, I was thinking of Bella.
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Oh, God.
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I don't know brown brown.
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More torn Phoenix.
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My favorite color is dirt.
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Well, stay tuned for this and other details.
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CHP officers coming to in Sanchez arrived on scene at approximately 1727 hours.
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24 27 no 527.
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Math is hard and I'd appreciate it if you don't judge me.
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Uh, okay.
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This next section, I will be temporarily redacting names.
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Sometimes I just need the suspense and I want anyone who knows what case it is to get
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the sweet sweet dopamine rush of correctly guessing it while they're in their car or wherever
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they might be.
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If you're at the gym, I don't suggest like yelling it out up to you dealer's choice.
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According to officer Coveington, there was no evidence located at the scene.
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He was unable to locate either acceleration marks, tire friction marks or breaking furrow
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marks.
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Oh, that's, that would be something you think you would find.
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Yeah, you might, you might think so.
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Upon recovery of the vehicle, it was discovered that the driver of Woodland, Washington was still
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seated in the driver's seat.
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Oh.
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Her wife was trapped between the roof and the seats in the rear of the vehicle.
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It was also noted that the speedometer was pinned at 90 miles per hour.
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Indicating to officer Coveington, the vehicle was running and in motion just prior to the collision
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with the rocks below.
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Did they think it was actually going 90?
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Yes.
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Holy shit.
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Yes.
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High speed for kind of a winding coastal road.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Neither officers nor emergency personnel at the scene were able to locate any evidence
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of the vehicle colliding with the embankment as it traversed towards the title zone below.
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Based upon the California Highway Patrol investigation, it is their belief a felony has
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been committed.
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This incident was reported under its report number 2018-8630.
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Now the truth of these people's lives and the awful crash was waiting to be recovered at
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the bottom of the reportedly nearly 150 foot cliff drop.
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Along with the bodies of multiple children in their care.
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No.
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If it weren't for how things ended, the couple might be remembered as being a nearly unequaled
10:30
example of unconditional love and inclusion.
10:35
A family formed out of genuine desire for connection.
10:40
Instead, they'll go down in history as a horrific example of just how malicious the unchecked
10:48
abuse of two women help end on being white saviors really can be.
10:54
Ew.
10:55
Yeah.
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This has got a lot of ik.
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Now some of you might have already caught on that this is the case of the Hart family
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murder suicide.
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Yeah.
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I heard about this.
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I don't know a lot of the details, so yay!
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Here we go.
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For those that remain uninitiated regarding the case, the Hart family was formed by Jennifer
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Jean Hart, born June 4th, 1979, and Sarah Margaret Hart, born April 8th, 1979.
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Early records pertaining to the couple revealed that they were both from South Dakota but had
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since moved to Alexandria, Minnesota.
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Minnesota.
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Minnesota.
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To many outsiders, the pair had a loving relationship with Plenty despair, so much so in fact that they
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made the decision to adopt three children reportedly or presumably so that the siblings
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could remain together.
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I really like, I want to be like, oh, that's like really sweet, but I know how it ends, so
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it's hard to say.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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No, there's not.
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There's.
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Oh.
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Not a lot of.
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Yeah.
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The thought of that is really sweet though for everyone who's doing that where it doesn't end
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this way.
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Yes.
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And I think that's always the ideal to try to keep the kids together.
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They do typically try to prioritize keeping kids together in the foster system.
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This is kind of tragic because it just means that, well, it's all of them.
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Yeah.
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It's just going to get a lot worse.
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So the couple received licensure to provide child foster care in Douglas County, Minnesota,
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beginning in April 2005.
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Then in September of 2006, Abigail, Hannah and Marcus aged six months, two and five years
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old respectively, came to live with the hearts.
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Literally, babies, they came from an underprivileged background.
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Their biomom having terminated her parental rights voluntarily to try to give her children
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a chance at a better life, which is pretty excruciating to think about given, like you said,
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knowing how this ends.
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Yeah.
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It shouldn't have ended that way.
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She wanted her kids to have a better life and that's where it should have gone instead.
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Yeah.
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The children were reportedly placed with a couple through the Family Resource Center
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in Minnesota.
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Right off the bat, things seem to be going really well according to their case worker.
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It's just another one of those things that makes it that much harder to process what happens
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in the end.
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Like this started off great, seemingly, but it's so hard to know what's going on in, you
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know, a family's home also.
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Yeah.
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Things can appear one way on the outside.
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Behind closed doors.
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It's very different.
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Yes.
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They were being taken to appointments for speech therapy and given their prescribed medications
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as directed.
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All good stuff.
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Kind of the minimum bar though.
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I feel like for parents.
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The case worker was so impressed that when three additional children needed to be placed,
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Devonte, Jeremiah and Sierra, the couple was already a shoe in.
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In December 2006, the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services removed Devonte,
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Jeremiah, Sierra, and a fourth child, their brother, Dante, from the care of a relative,
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their aunt, Priscilla Celestein after a case worker visit.
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She has like the most beautiful name.
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I was just thinking that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It sounds like this was basically a surprise visit, which I'm given to understand is not necessarily
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unusual.
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This is a pretty fucked up situation.
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Oh no.
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And the reporting around the incident leading to their removal from the home is variable.
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But from what I gather, the children were not permitted unsupervised visitation with their
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mother at the time.
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And when they found her present at the time of the surprise home visit, the aunt was at
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work.
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And it basically set an unstoppable freight train into motion.
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Oh no.
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I mean, I could see how that could happen though.
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Yeah.
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I mean, if you're a kid and you're home alone while your aunt and your current caregiver
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is at work, your mom shows up.
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I mean, that's such an impossible situation.
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In May of 2007, Celestein filed a petition to adopt all four children while they were being
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cared for by the state of Texas.
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However, her petition was denied by the Harris County District Court.
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She even filed a motion for a new trial, but that was denied as well.
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It's unclear why the hearts did not also take custody of the fourth child, Dante, or where
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he was placed.
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But the whole thing with the foster system is trying to keep kids together whenever they
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can.
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So already, I just feel like kind of heated about that turn of events.
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That's just like one facet of it.
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Yeah.
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There's also a law in the state of Texas that they are supposed to exhaust every possible
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resource to place children with family.
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And here they are denying this woman the right to care for her own family because of this
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singular incident with the biological mom.
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Yeah, that doesn't seem right.
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No, no.
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And I'm not saying that that is an okay thing to have happening when a caseworker pops in.
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And obviously, there are going to be consequences for something like that.
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If this is truly someone that the children should not be around unsupervised, but give her
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the opportunity to make that right.
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Yeah.
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It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Not long after being placed with the Hart's, Hannah made an allegation of abuse.
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And this was just the first.
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At two years old.
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Oh, what?
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Two?
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At two.
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She told authorities that one of the women had beaten and bruised her with a belt.
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Oh.
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And asked for their side of the story, Jennifer and Sarah reportedly claimed that Hannah had
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simply fallen down the stairs.
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That's like something very specific for a two-year-old to say.
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Exactly.
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And I'm glad you said that because my next sentence, while the claim was allegedly investigated,
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official statements on the matter are that there wasn't enough evidence of wrongdoing
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to warrant changes to custody.
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Hmm.
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Surely most two-year-olds aren't in the habit of lying about being beaten by their caregiver.
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I mean, and with a belt.
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But I guess when there are two nice white lesbians, contradicting the story of a person of color,
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much less a two-year-old, it's no surprise that the claims aren't apparently taken all
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that seriously.
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Ah. In case this isn't abundantly clear at this point in my storytelling or something
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that people just were not aware of about the case, this is, like I said, a white lesbian
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couple that has adopted black children, several black children.
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This whole time, Celeste kept fighting for all of the kids.
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This had her tied up in knots with the courts for several years.
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When the next allegation occurs, you might think they would allow her to take custody.
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Take them back from, you know, the home where one of their guardians is seemingly almost
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certainly abusing them.
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But you'd only do that if you believed the victim and cared enough to do something about
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it before things got worse.
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They cared enough to take them away when--
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Right.
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From their aunt when their mom showed up, but were they bruised and abused?
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Nope.
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They were in good health, which is going to be important for later.
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Because we're going to see that that certainly changes.
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It's July of 2010 when the aunt's struggle is dealt kind of the final blow.
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But that's months prior to another report of abuse.
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In November 2010, the police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, who was six
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at the time regarding abuse allegations after a teacher discovered extensive bruising,
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sending from her sternum to her naval.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, it's like, okay, is that sounds like basically her whole torso?
21:07
Yeah.
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Is that what we're saying?
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Is that accurate to say?
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It sounds like it.
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Yeah.
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The girl says, "Genefer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath,
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and hit her again."
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This is according to the court records.
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She was then grounded.
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The girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.
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What the fuck?
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We're not using food as a weapon now.
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Jesus Christ.
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I know.
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I'm so like the cold bath and then my whole body felt like you dumped like a cold bucket of
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water on me.
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Yeah.
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I didn't.
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But, this is like that again, that's like so specific, like who would make that up right
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to be abused?
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Like, okay, they hit me or whatever, but like putting your head in a cold bath, like no
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one's going to come up with that except fucked up people.
22:05
Right.
22:06
Right.
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It's such a specific to think of that yourself as a punishment.
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And then for that to be the thing that the child says is, yeah, I agree.
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It's bizarre that they're like, oh, that doesn't seem believable.
22:25
Even when Sarah Hart ends up pleading guilty to abusing Abigail, an ascentance to a year
22:34
of probation in relation to the misdemeanor domestic assault, nothing changes.
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Okay.
22:42
Remember, this is an allegation that she brought against Jennifer.
22:47
Okay.
22:48
So, we're starting to see a dynamic where Jennifer maybe is kind of the, for lack of a better
22:56
term.
22:57
She's like, she's the cold leader.
23:00
She's the ring leader.
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Sarah told police, she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities
23:10
her mother Jennifer had done it.
23:13
The next day, all six of the heart children were taken out of public schools.
23:18
They would never attend public school again.
23:21
That does not seem right.
23:24
Well, and we've seen this in other cases.
23:27
It's a bold move, but it typically unfortunately serves the abusers well because it takes them
23:36
out of a situation where they have the oversight of mandatory reporters.
23:44
How is that not a giant red flag after a teacher comes forward seeing these bruises and stuff
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and then they pull them out of school?
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Obviously, they don't want teachers finding these things.
23:58
Right.
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I don't know how we go about sort of flagging that in a way that makes that something that
24:07
it's like, okay, this is an actionable, now we need to monitor this closer.
24:14
I don't know.
24:16
I think it's a major red flag when all of a sudden there's allegations of abuse and we
24:24
just decide, oh, we're going to homeschool now.
24:27
Based on what?
24:29
I mean, they certainly don't seem like they have any particular set of qualifications to
24:35
homeschool.
24:36
Number one, people usually don't.
24:39
Yeah.
24:40
Oh, okay, I forgot to delete this note.
24:44
I added in when I was editing my chicken scratch notes.
24:48
There's a lot of asterix and it is in all caps.
24:53
The energy is really something.
24:56
Normally, I would have remembered to delete this, but I think subconsciously my witchy brain
25:02
knew we'd probably, we'd need to get the giggles in where we could.
25:10
Oh, no, okay.
25:12
So sometimes it takes more than one session to go through and like make all of the words
25:21
one episode.
25:22
And this is what I wrote to myself, so I would know where I left off.
25:26
This is where you left off.
25:27
You beautiful, magical and easily distracted unicorn.
25:33
But it's kind of funny.
25:39
It just says, "Yo bitch, you left off here," or something like that.
25:43
That one, I must have, I was feeling some type of way.
25:47
That's funny.
25:48
In October 2011, mere months after Sarah sentencing, the heart family is still living in Alexandria,
25:56
Minnesota, taking part in the Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.
26:04
But by 2012, the heart family was headed west.
26:09
There's another huge red flag when we're relocating.
26:16
Very, very far away.
26:18
Yeah.
26:19
Yeah.
26:20
So that's concerning.
26:21
It's again, it's tough to know how exactly to keep track of some of these things.
26:26
How do we make sure that the red flags are being cataloged?
26:32
Yeah.
26:33
So to speak.
26:34
Were they just the other kids, how many kids were there?
26:39
At this point, there are six.
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Okay, that's what I thought.
26:43
Is the three that were taken from the aunt, are they officially adopted, or are they still
26:47
just foster children?
26:50
I'm not sure.
26:51
I think they were adopted relatively quickly, which is actually really upsetting because the
26:57
aunt was actively trying to do that herself.
27:00
Yeah.
27:01
And they basically were like, nope.
27:02
I didn't think that that could be a thing if like a family member was still trying to
27:07
do that.
27:08
Right.
27:09
Okay.
27:10
Yeah.
27:11
My question was, how can you like take foster children out of the state?
27:15
Like, yeah.
27:16
Are you allowed to even do that?
27:17
Was my question, but I guess a third of that?
27:20
I don't think that it mattered in this case.
27:22
And there also has to be somebody that's willing to actually keep track of that.
27:29
Like, they have to be aware so that they're able to take any sort of action on these issues.
27:37
And no one's keeping track.
27:41
Spoilers.
27:44
Sarah traveled to Portland to look for work with the intent of Jennifer and the children
27:50
joining her later.
27:52
No, we don't want you here.
27:55
Well, the following year in 2013, the Hart family had settled into Westland, a bedroom
28:04
community of Portland proper.
28:07
While living there, it became apparent to a friend of the family that the children were
28:12
being abused and deprived of food.
28:17
There was an incident where essentially that all of the heart children were given like
28:23
a half a slice of pizza.
28:26
And apparently when they went to bed that night, they took a little head count of the leftover
28:33
pizza.
28:35
And when they woke up and realized that somebody had taken additional slices while everybody
28:41
else was sleeping, then they were punished.
28:44
Oh my God.
28:45
And in kind of a weird way, they basically were just forced to like lay on the floor for
28:52
like hours from what I understand.
28:55
It was very bizarre.
28:56
What?
28:57
And they did this from everything that I have heard and read and seen about this case.
29:04
They did this in front of literally another adult who it sounds like was a parent, but she
29:13
was a black woman.
29:15
And I'm thinking that is bold.
29:18
That is bold.
29:19
Wow.
29:20
You think that this person is just going to roll over and accept that that's the way you
29:25
discipline your children?
29:28
Hopefully no one ever would.
29:33
You are about to be so disappointed with humanity.
29:36
I mean, yeah, I kind of figured over and over and over and over and over and over again.
29:44
Not in this case.
29:46
And the hearts learn that this was reported to Oregon child welfare.
29:51
The couple quickly cuts off contact with that individual because that's the other, you
29:56
know, that's the M.O.
29:59
Though reportedly the children were interviewed in the hindsight, it's clear that the children
30:04
had been coached and cajoled into saying the right things and ultimately DHS dropped
30:11
the case because of course they did.
30:15
We've got something we're really excited to share with you guys.
30:20
Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.
30:23
Do you love true crime, but are looking for something different?
30:27
Do you like learning about cases so off the wall?
30:30
They can't possibly be true.
30:32
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30:37
Do you like laughing awkwardly about cases that are bizarre and a little strange?
30:42
And we have the podcast for you.
30:45
Join me, Lindsay and me, Madison, for Yield Crime.
30:50
Where we discuss the funny, strange and obscure crimes of yesterday.
30:55
Listen every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.
30:59
And we'll see you next time with another tale.
31:02
As old as crime.
31:07
Check them out, creepy people.
31:17
I am air dropping a photo to Cassie.
31:23
This is a really hard photo to look at.
31:24
I'm just going to tell you that.
31:25
It's not a gruesome photo, but I think you're going to understand pretty quickly why it is
31:34
so yucky.
31:35
Okay.
31:36
Hi.
31:37
Then the moment that everyone familiar with the case has probably been waiting for.
31:42
It's the infamous photo.
31:45
Okay.
31:46
Look at it.
31:47
I don't want to.
31:49
Is it too late to say no?
31:51
Yes.
31:52
Oh, I do remember saying this picture.
31:57
Oh, God, that gives me chills.
32:00
Yeah.
32:01
Seeing you, seeing it, thinking about it myself.
32:05
I'm thinking about this child in that moment.
32:11
It's just like, save me.
32:14
Help me.
32:15
Yeah.
32:16
Yeah.
32:17
So, I'm going to give a little bit of a description here.
32:21
Just obviously we got to have some background and for anybody that's not watching in one format
32:28
or another and it's just listening.
32:30
I want you to know what we're talking about.
32:33
In November 2014, the Hart family attended a protest following a devastating jury decision
32:41
in the Ferguson trial.
32:44
The jury had declined to indict law enforcement in connection with the fatal shooting of Michael
32:50
Brown.
32:53
At that very protest, a picture of Devon Day, who had, and there are several of these other
32:59
photos, he had frequently sported a free hugs sign at activist events and other protests.
33:08
So sweet.
33:09
Is it?
33:10
I mean, it seems there's some issues around consent that yeah, yeah.
33:14
It's theory.
33:15
It's theory.
33:16
If that's like the kid's idea, right?
33:18
You know what I mean?
33:19
Yeah.
33:20
Yeah.
33:21
This is a picture that was captured of him hugging a Portland police officer.
33:29
The photo of course went insanely viral.
33:32
I don't know if that's what we call it anymore.
33:35
It was everywhere.
33:36
I'm trying to think of even the way to describe this.
33:38
I feel like it's one of those sort of iconic type images.
33:45
Yeah.
33:46
And it only got bigger at a certain point and for very obviously sad reasons.
33:56
Sad all the way around.
33:59
This was at the height of some of the protests here in Portland and elsewhere in the country,
34:05
which were seemingly all anyone could talk about.
34:09
Though in I would argue in far too many instances, not exactly for the right reasons.
34:16
Yes.
34:18
There was destruction of property.
34:22
In the daily lives of people living in and around Portland and the other major cities where
34:28
these events were taking place.
34:31
And in some cases, physical violence was a contributing factor to sensational reporting
34:38
around the events.
34:40
But it whipped up a lot of fear and anger and anxiety and also racism.
34:49
And this is always stuck with me.
34:52
I actually had friends out of LA and other parts of California asking me if I was safe and
34:58
I needed a place to stay.
35:02
Which feels really wild.
35:04
And especially given the nature of like here we are, this is like these are, you know,
35:12
demonstrations and protests designed to call attention to the fact that, you know, people
35:17
of color in particular are not safe.
35:21
And it feels very strange to be, you know, a white woman who there's so much concern for
35:30
your well-being.
35:32
Yeah.
35:33
And it comes obviously, you know, from, in the case of someone who cares about you, like
35:38
it's coming from a good place.
35:40
But at the same time, it's like, oh, this is so not about me.
35:45
And yes, I am safe.
35:47
And yeah, I don't know.
35:49
Yeah.
35:50
Not pretty bad.
35:51
Like everything got like kind of out of control and then like went, I feel like it like
35:55
went the opposite way of where it was, where it was originally supposed to go.
36:00
It just was very unfortunate.
36:02
Yeah.
36:03
Yeah, I feel like.
36:04
And that's what I mean, I guess, when I say that the conversations around it were focused
36:10
on the wrong things.
36:11
It's like it became all about sensationalizing, you know, the instances where there was property
36:19
damage or, you know, disruption to traffic, things like that.
36:23
And it wasn't about what it was about anymore.
36:27
Exactly.
36:28
Which is upsetting.
36:30
And obviously, you know, we know there were some, well, anyways, I'm not going to, I'm not
36:36
even, I'm not, not even going to keep going down this road back to the family, which honestly
36:43
I hate to call them, but I'm kind of hard pressed to come up with a better term in this
36:50
moment.
36:51
And I struggled with that as I was writing my notes too.
36:55
I was like, this just is not a family.
36:59
These are a loose grouping of people who happen to live under the same roof.
37:05
I guess that's the better term.
37:09
There we go.
37:10
Yeah.
37:11
Yeah.
37:12
Yeah.
37:13
Yeah.
37:14
What's the acronym?
37:15
Oh, boy.
37:16
That's no.
37:17
We don't have time for that.
37:18
All of that activism or more accurately virtue signaling in this case gains the heart family
37:25
some notoriety.
37:29
The family joined US Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont on stage at a presidential campaign
37:35
rally stop in Vancouver in March of 2015.
37:39
Excuse me in March of 2016.
37:43
And I hate these women for tarnishing the good Senator's name, even in a tangential way,
37:49
but more importantly, for how they used these children as props for their own online
37:57
clout and just like, I don't know, general shits and giggles, just the amount of people that
38:04
buy association just, ugh, it just, you got to feel like you want to take a hot shower
38:11
with a wire brush, you know, I can't.
38:17
I can't.
38:18
I simply called.
38:20
She could.
38:21
Everything tells me it wasn't them trying to escape their newfound status as racial justice
38:28
activists that had them relocating by May 2017.
38:32
Probably not.
38:34
PopSos not.
38:37
I think it's far more likely that while they enjoyed all of the attention, Jennifer and
38:42
Sarah bought their new home in Woodland, Washington, because it was a different means
38:49
of escape.
38:51
The two story, three bedroom homes sat on two acres of land and was a far more isolated
38:57
area of Clark County than where they had previously lived.
39:02
Three bedrooms.
39:04
Wow.
39:06
For six kids and two adults.
39:08
Yeah.
39:09
We all got six kids.
39:11
Yeah.
39:12
Anyways, I mean, that's the least of their issues.
39:18
While living in that home, which I have to say, they clearly spared no expense decorating beautifully.
39:24
I mean, parts of it anyway.
39:27
Nor when it came to stalking the fridge.
39:30
Hmm.
39:31
The ship really goes downhill.
39:34
Or at least what should have been some very obvious signs became more apparent.
39:41
Like the time that Hannah Hart fled the home through a window and came to the neighbor's
39:47
house for help stating that she and her siblings were being both abused physically and start.
39:59
God.
40:02
The neighbors did return Hannah home.
40:05
And when they followed up the next morning, it seemed like maybe the situation had been
40:10
resolved.
40:12
Or so they thought.
40:14
How is that?
40:16
Yeah.
40:17
The only resolution for that is like legal punishment.
40:20
Mm-hmm.
40:21
Mm-hmm.
40:22
Again, only if you believe the people reporting these things to you.
40:29
And I don't know that they didn't believe them.
40:31
It can be really tough to get involved in these types of situations because you only have
40:36
so much power.
40:39
And if the authorities aren't necessarily acting on the information that they have, also,
40:48
it doesn't sound like that initial incident was reported.
40:52
So it doesn't really give the authorities anything to act on.
40:57
But so this incident wasn't reported until months later when finally a relative of the
41:05
heart family's neighbors placed a call to emergency services stating that he was concerned
41:13
as he felt that the children living in the heart home were, and I quote, being highly
41:19
abused.
41:20
I've heard snippets of this 911 call.
41:25
It's really bizarre.
41:27
It's just really bizarre in the sense that it's like if you're receiving this call, how
41:32
are those children not immediately removed from the home while this is investigated?
41:39
That's the part that's bizarre.
41:41
Mm-hmm.
41:42
Yeah, highly abused.
41:43
Yeah.
41:44
Cheers.
41:45
Yeah.
41:46
He explained the incident that occurred with Hannah, so how she'd come to their house in
41:50
the middle of the night, like 1.30 a.m.
41:53
Oh my God.
41:55
And again, I know it can be really tough for people to decide when it's time to intervene
42:01
in situations that they think might be abusive, but I think especially when you're talking about
42:07
an insular family with homeschooled kids living in a somewhat rural community, especially
42:17
air on the side of overreacting.
42:19
Also, if you receive a bullshit apology letter that both looks and sounds like it was
42:26
penned by a live laugh love, sign heaven, Karen, haircut, heaven, virtue signaling piece of
42:35
shit that they're trying to pass off is having been written by the child, the child desperately
42:42
seeking your help.
42:45
That's another great signal to maybe queue up some follow up questions at a bare minimum.
42:51
Wow.
42:53
So they had they wrote a letter for the child who tried to escape for help.
42:59
Yeah.
43:00
I'm so sorry.
43:01
Our cats died recently and I'm very upset.
43:04
I'm not handling my emotions well.
43:07
So I'm faking that I'm being abused.
43:11
Because that totally seems like the logical thing for a teenager to do, right?
43:17
I mean, I guess you don't know how people react to grief, but it just doesn't seem
43:23
kind of wild.
43:24
Yeah.
43:25
Yeah, especially because they really didn't see these kids a lot, which is always concerning.
43:33
When you have a house full of six kids and you don't hear or see kids, that's not good.
43:40
Not a great sign.
43:41
Kids are loud and they take a lot of fucking space.
43:44
Yeah.
43:45
Yeah.
43:46
Yeah.
43:47
In March of 2018, Washington State, DHS opened up a CPS investigation that identified the
43:54
heart children as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect.
44:01
For well over a week, neighbors were sneaking food to the kids.
44:07
Oh my God.
44:09
A list of food items would be given to them, which those neighbors would then provide.
44:15
They were sneaking it to them.
44:17
They were hiding it out in the yard.
44:20
Wow.
44:21
If you're having to do that, how are the police not there?
44:25
My next line.
44:27
If children are begging you for food and you also have to hide that you're helping them
44:34
get food, that's all the red flags.
44:38
Wow.
44:39
And this went on, like I said, for I think it was nine or ten days.
44:45
They're giving them like, you know, jars of peanut butter.
44:48
And at one point, I think one of the specific items that was mentioned was like they asked
44:54
for 30 tortillas.
44:56
Oh.
44:57
DHS attempted to make contact with the heart family, but were ultimately unsuccessful.
45:06
During the same time period, others close to the heart family started noticing red flags
45:12
as well.
45:13
Like Sarah's friend Cheryl, who she sent a text to stating she was so sick, she might have
45:19
to go to the hospital.
45:21
So she was basically like kind of trying to call in to work because they were co-workers.
45:27
This was the last text message that Cheryl would ever receive from Sarah.
45:33
The very next day, the family was in the Newport, Oregon area in the morning, according to
45:39
police.
45:40
They believed that the family continued southbound on Route 101 to Legit, California, then onward
45:49
to Fort Bragg in the Mendocino area, where they stayed until the following evening of March
45:55
25th.
46:00
After not hearing from Sarah, who was a reliable worker, but she did not report to her job
46:06
at Coles on March 26th, Cheryl asks that a welfare check be conducted at the heart family
46:13
home that afternoon at about 115.
46:16
Well, that's a good friend.
46:18
Yeah.
46:20
That same day, Washington DHS makes another attempt to reach out to the family, again without
46:27
success.
46:28
Roughly two hours later, on March 26th is when we circle back to the German tourist,
46:35
Kristen.
46:36
As she's driving along Highway 1, she sees a vehicle that has landed upside down, presumably
46:44
after going over the Shoreline cliff.
46:48
Law enforcement arrives at the scene to find there are five occupants in the vehicle.
46:54
Unfortunately, it's three children that are deceased as are the two adult women inside.
47:02
The following day, Washington DHS made another attempt to contact the heart family, which
47:12
was, of course, unsuccessful, as had been the case in their efforts to do so on two prior
47:19
occasions.
47:22
It wasn't until the following day that the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office was able
47:27
to identify the victims of the crash as Jennifer and Sarah Hart, along with the three children
47:34
also found in the vehicle, Marcus, Jeremiah and Abigail.
47:42
At that time, the whereabouts of three of the six heart children were still unknown.
47:49
But, of course, I'm at this point.
47:53
The people, many of the people close to the case and the investigation feared the worst.
48:02
The search for the three remaining heart children continued as did law enforcement's investigation
48:08
into the crash.
48:10
By April 2nd, 2018, law enforcement officials made their suspicions that the crash may have
48:17
been intentional public.
48:20
They had previously revealed that the speedometer indicated the vehicle had been traveling at a
48:30
speed of 90 miles an hour or roughly 145 kilometers per hour.
48:37
Our friends abroad.
48:40
It was official.
48:42
Their belief was that sadly, the three remaining heart children were unlikely to be found alive.
48:48
That same day, Sheriff Tom Allman makes the following statement.
48:57
I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident.
49:01
I'm calling it a crime.
49:03
Five days later on April 7th, an unidentified deceased young black female is found in the
49:10
water near the crash site.
49:13
On the 13th of that same month, the California Highway Patrol releases the information that
49:19
Jennifer Hart's blood alcohol level was .102.
49:23
Jeez.
49:24
That's high, right?
49:27
It is.
49:28
Yeah.
49:30
Tux ecology reports revealed even more troubling information.
49:35
Sarah Hart had a significant amount of the ingredient primarily in Benadryl in her
49:41
system, as did two of the three children found in the vehicle.
49:47
So they were basically drugged with Benadryl?
49:50
The young girl whose body had been discovered 10 days prior was identified as 12-year-old
49:58
Sierra.
50:00
At some point, as the details began to slowly trickle out about the family and the investigation
50:07
into the crash, a journalist and photographer from Portland realized that they had interviewed
50:14
this family at a Bernie rally back in 2016.
50:18
That would be like so chilling.
50:21
Yeah.
50:22
I can't even imagine.
50:24
Finally, May 9th, 2018, Hannah's remains were discovered.
50:30
And it is at this point that it was generally accepted that Devon Des Body was presumably
50:38
lost to the sea.
50:41
The sheriff had made a point not to classify the car crash as an accident.
50:46
Obviously.
50:48
He ends up calling for a coroner's inquest.
50:52
And he's both a sheriff and the coroner, apparently.
50:55
Oh, Barrow?
50:56
Yeah.
50:57
So he's calling on himself?
50:58
A little bit.
50:59
Yeah.
51:00
Okay.
51:01
Yeah.
51:02
It's kind of an interesting turn of events, I guess.
51:06
The evidence is presented to a jury a year and a week to the day following the crash.
51:14
The jury determined that the children were murdered at the hands of their adoptive parents.
51:23
At the time of the crash, Marcus was 19, Jeremiah was 14, as was Abigail.
51:32
Devonte was 15, Hannah was 16, and Sierra was 12.
51:40
Though there may be nothing truly definitive to prove why Jennifer and presumably Sarah decided
51:49
to end their own lives and that of their adopted children, it seems fairly clear that they
51:55
were likely motivated by the fear that they would be caught for what was certainly years
52:02
of horrific abuse.
52:03
Yeah.
52:04
And starvation, which is, I mean, that's abuse as well, but physical abuse and starvation.
52:13
So I think I'll leave us with a quote from a 2013 Minnesota Child Protective Services
52:22
report to sum this up.
52:25
The problem is these women look normal.
52:33
This feels like something that someone somewhere along the line knew that like this was a bad situation,
52:47
you know, kind of probably a powder keg situation, but just waiting for something to set it
53:00
off and years went by before, before this and the whole time what they must have been enduring
53:13
because the horrific things that I mean, maybe not outwardly as physically abusive so much
53:23
as emotionally and psychologically torturing them.
53:27
And these are things that they did in front of people, you know, like when they're punishing
53:33
them for taking leftover pizza out of the fridge, they're doing this in front of friends
53:40
and they're trusting that apparently no one's going to call them on that.
53:45
They're not going to get called out for abuse and starvation.
53:50
Yeah.
53:51
Think about what had to have been happening that no one was seeing.
53:56
Yeah.
53:57
I don't want to think about it.
54:00
The one thing I will say as sad as it is that Devon Des Body was ultimately not recovered
54:10
is that we talked about the potential issues around consent with the photos that they had
54:18
taken of him and the free hugs sign things like that.
54:23
And part of me got to the end of this realizing that he's the only one that was never, his
54:31
remains were never located and I thought good.
54:35
They can never do things to his body and take pictures of them to exploit ever again.
54:47
The thought of his body being recovered and somehow photos of his remains making it into publication,
54:57
you know, or I mean, just everything that happened to all of these kids, but especially he was
55:04
so so public facing as far as part of the image for this family on social media and let's
55:16
see.
55:17
Now, he can just hopefully be at peace.
55:21
I don't know.
55:22
That's the way that I'm choosing to look at that particular piece of the story.
55:28
So you said Marcus was 19.
55:31
That's so interesting because he was an adult.
55:35
So he could have left, but I imagine that he wouldn't want to leave his siblings.
55:40
Yeah.
55:41
That's so heartbreaking.
55:43
Yeah.
55:44
I think they're aside from just wanting to remain to protect his siblings.
55:50
I'm sure also where where was he going to go?
55:54
Right.
55:55
I'm sure he didn't move across the country and separated from any sort of resources.
56:02
Yeah.
56:03
He lived in a somewhat rural part of Washington and how is he supposed to be able to access
56:10
resources?
56:11
Yeah.
56:15
Are you leaving those kids?
56:17
Oh my God.
56:18
Probably not.
56:19
I think most of us would be like not in a million years.
56:23
Yeah.
56:24
Even if you could, which doesn't seem likely that they would raise them to be independent at
56:28
all.
56:29
No.
56:30
Absolutely not.
56:31
I do have some other pieces.
56:33
I feel like I'm still kind of having an internal debate about whether it's something that
56:39
I want to just do like a short Patreon discussion for or if this is kind of something we should
56:45
talk about during tarot.
56:47
So I guess we can talk about it and figure out where to place it.
56:54
This whole, I mean, the whole case is so awful, but there are just some kind of stark details.
57:02
I don't know how else to put that without actually coming out and just going through the whole.
57:07
I don't know.
57:08
It's about a third of a page that I have that's just kind of like where to fit.
57:12
And it's, I feel like interesting to to discuss and sort of consider.
57:20
I don't know.
57:21
Yeah.
57:22
We'll see if the tarot brings it up maybe.
57:23
Yeah.
57:24
Yeah.
57:25
That happens.
57:26
Should we do some tarot?
57:27
Yeah.
57:28
Let's do some tarot.
57:29
I'm really sad.
57:30
Yeah.
57:31
I, um, I sobbed at a certain point researching this because it just is, it's everything that's
57:41
horrific in, in our world.
57:45
And it just, it's so brutal.
57:48
It's just, I don't know.
57:51
It was like everything all at once.
57:54
Yeah.
57:55
It was a lot.
57:56
Yeah.
57:57
It's a lot.
57:58
It just blows my mind.
57:59
I mean, I know that there's bad people in every, in every, like part of society, but it's
58:05
just like, obviously, you're white women, but you're, you're women and you're a lesbian
58:11
couple.
58:12
Yeah.
58:13
So like, how do you not have any compassion?
58:15
Yeah.
58:16
Like I just, I don't understand it.
58:19
Yeah.
58:20
I, there's a lot of things about this that I feel like none of us want to ever come close
58:28
to something resembling understanding.
58:32
No.
58:33
I mean, that probably goes without saying, but I'm going to say it.
58:36
So we don't get it.
58:39
We don't get it.
58:41
All right.
58:42
Okay.
58:43
Let's do some tarot.
58:44
Tarot.
58:45
Beautiful.
58:46
Welcome to the tarot.
58:48
Hey, Tee.
58:49
You kind of is.
58:50
Wait, I could do it.
58:51
Wait.
58:52
Oh, look at you getting fine.
59:04
Let's see.
59:05
Okay.
59:06
I'm going to fan these out.
59:08
I'm sending in my intense energy.
59:10
Yeah.
59:11
It's very intense from the looks of it.
59:13
Where are we pecking?
59:14
Wherever you feel.
59:15
I feel like this one.
59:16
I don't know.
59:17
Oh.
59:18
Oh, what'd we get?
59:19
This is the two of swords.
59:24
Oh, okay.
59:25
I'm a piacetouille.
59:27
Two of swords.
59:28
I feel like we get a lot.
59:30
It's like the blind-folded woman with that, well, this card's a PWDEC.
59:34
So it's a mole.
59:35
But it's supposed to be like a blindfolded woman with two swords crossed.
59:39
Okay.
59:40
This is interesting though, because it kind of looks, well, I know it's a mole.
59:43
So he's coming out of the ground.
59:45
But like when I first saw it, I was like, oh, he's like on a cliff or a mountain.
59:49
Oh, that's a good point.
59:51
Yeah.
59:52
I didn't think about that.
59:53
Oh, I just had another thought.
59:54
Let me get it out before we start doing it.
59:57
Because you know, I always wait and then I'm like, wait, what was that?
1:00:02
Who's that now?
1:00:03
So like a mole is like hidden underground.
1:00:06
Like a lot of you think of just like hiding away and like being out of sight of like people.
1:00:13
Is that lucky?
1:00:14
Yeah.
1:00:15
That's like the vibe.
1:00:16
Yeah.
1:00:17
That's, that is a vibe.
1:00:20
Okay.
1:00:21
Keywords are combined resources, courage, faith, friendship, conflict and balance.
1:00:31
In some tarot decks, this card depicts a blindfolded woman holding two swords crossed over her chest.
1:00:38
Two's generally signify balance or conflict as well as pairing.
1:00:43
It's a lot of conflict.
1:00:45
Yeah.
1:00:46
The pairing.
1:00:47
Yeah.
1:00:48
That's kind of exactly what my, where my head went to as well.
1:00:52
I think of the two of sorts as the blind faith card because it can represent courage and making
1:00:59
decisions based on your own truth and in some cases spiritual guidance.
1:01:06
The upright two can symbolize balancing the right and left hemispheres of your brain,
1:01:12
combining intuition with intellect.
1:01:15
Knowing this card may mean you must make a decision and need to call on both.
1:01:21
I feel like they made a decision and didn't call on either one.
1:01:24
I feel like immediately I identify this as being that particular excerpt.
1:01:31
I feel like I identify that as being sort of the struggle for Marcus because like you mentioned
1:01:38
he's an adult and you know in theory he could leave, right?
1:01:43
I don't know.
1:01:44
That just sort of spoke to me I guess in that way.
1:01:48
This too can also advise you to take off your blindfold and look at a situation honestly.
1:01:54
I was literally just thinking of all of the people who were like looking at this stuff
1:01:58
and like kind of they were seeing it but they weren't actually seeing it.
1:02:04
Well they weren't seeing the forest for the trees.
1:02:07
I think that's kind of the turn of phrase, right?
1:02:11
In a reading about money the upright two recommends trusting your own wisdom and inner guidance
1:02:17
in a financial matter.
1:02:19
Pay attention to your intuition as well as logic.
1:02:23
If the reading is about your job you may be confused or conflicted about a work related
1:02:28
issue.
1:02:29
I feel like maybe that sort of speaks to the friend.
1:02:34
Or the like the police or the people who are supposed to be checking up on the kids or
1:02:40
have faith in your own judgment and ideas.
1:02:44
Make the call for the welfare check I guess.
1:02:50
Sometimes the upright two represents a job that requires both intellect and imagination.
1:02:56
Interesting.
1:02:57
Okay.
1:02:58
This next part I just sort of skimmed and I feel like a lot of the reporting and different
1:03:05
things like other creators or journalists like any number of people that I've seen sort
1:03:11
of discuss this case.
1:03:14
There's almost sort of a general consensus that Jennifer like we talked about like she's
1:03:21
the leader, right?
1:03:22
And Sarah went along with things and those were not the right choices to be making but
1:03:28
that like she's not the primary perpetrator.
1:03:32
Right.
1:03:33
Speaking about love, this card suggests listening to both your head and your heart.
1:03:39
It can mean you and your partner hold conflicting perspectives or that you're trying to resolve
1:03:45
differences and find harmony.
1:03:50
Sarah was said to have been the one that at times was she was thought at least to be sort
1:03:56
of trying to protect the kids and be like the shield for them.
1:04:01
How true that is I think it's probably really difficult to say in hindsight and there's
1:04:06
so much about cases like this where how could we ever know?
1:04:12
Right.
1:04:13
You can't.
1:04:14
No.
1:04:15
So it was buried under a molehill.
1:04:17
Yes.
1:04:18
The two is interesting just I think from the perspective of you know it's the pair of them.
1:04:24
Yeah.
1:04:25
Like we say the leaders of this family as it were.
1:04:30
Should I look at the little book?
1:04:31
I haven't done that in a while.
1:04:33
Yeah.
1:04:34
It was actually that's funny.
1:04:35
You say that because I was like, Oh, I was going to suggest just in case the sort of like
1:04:40
the P and W book like the interpretation or sort of the little the mini stories that
1:04:45
go along with it.
1:04:46
Sometimes that adds sort of some insight.
1:04:50
Sometimes we'll see.
1:04:51
We'll see.
1:04:52
Oh, so this is interesting.
1:04:53
It's a coast mole.
1:04:55
So he's at the coast.
1:04:57
Wow.
1:04:58
That's pretty interesting.
1:05:00
In decision, difficult choices, confusion, stalemate, acting with incomplete information
1:05:06
blindness is the key words for this stalemate and acting with incomplete information.
1:05:13
I mean, whoo.
1:05:15
Yikes.
1:05:16
Okay.
1:05:17
Let's read this.
1:05:18
Okay.
1:05:19
The mole stopped digging as she sensed a change in the soil ahead to one side.
1:05:24
The earth was drier and potentially more stable to the other side.
1:05:28
The dampness might mean more abundant selection of worms and slugs.
1:05:32
Yum.
1:05:33
Food.
1:05:34
Oh, God.
1:05:37
They had plenty of it, but didn't share it.
1:05:40
Maybe the roots in that direction would keep the tunnel stable or maybe she should go deeper
1:05:46
where the soil was more densely packed.
1:05:49
She wrinkled her nose and rested, paralyzed with indecision.
1:05:53
Her mind sniffing down the infinite branching paths that the future tunnel before her could
1:05:59
take.
1:06:00
Oh, wow.
1:06:02
But she couldn't deliberate forever.
1:06:05
The mole made a choice and resumed digging, taking the first blind steps in her journey
1:06:11
onward.
1:06:13
It just makes me think of like the driver making the choice.
1:06:17
Well, I mean, even Sarah.
1:06:20
Yeah.
1:06:21
Because she's making choices all along as well that are impacting everyone, the entirety
1:06:28
of the situation.
1:06:30
Yeah.
1:06:31
Yeah.
1:06:32
Seems like she was probably being abused though, too.
1:06:35
Yeah.
1:06:36
Seems highly likely.
1:06:37
I think that there are some pretty strong indications of that.
1:06:42
Especially when you consider too that, you know, based on what we know, it seems like
1:06:46
she took the fall for Jennifer.
1:06:48
Mm-hmm.
1:06:49
Yeah.
1:06:50
She did it.
1:06:51
Yeah.
1:06:52
Yeah.
1:06:53
I mean, it's like the more dominant aggressive or, I mean, domineering is a good word.
1:07:02
Personality just sort of determines the fate of all of these people.
1:07:08
A lot of people.
1:07:09
Yeah.
1:07:10
Did it bring up any of the stuff that you were thinking you might want to mention?
1:07:14
Mm-hmm.
1:07:15
Okay.
1:07:16
I mean, I think it's a very emotional information that I have and just sort of things I thought were
1:07:23
worth maybe reviewing or discussing.
1:07:25
I don't know.
1:07:26
Blanket.
1:07:27
Um, co-workers told police that Sarah Hart once arrived at work with her hometown covered
1:07:36
on her name badge when she was working at Coles.
1:07:41
And she explained that her wife, Jennifer, did not want people to know where they lived.
1:07:46
Oh.
1:07:47
Which I feel like that's fair.
1:07:50
But, hmm, Washington is a big state.
1:07:54
Woodland is a, I would presume of fairly expansive area.
1:08:00
Why not?
1:08:01
Why not?
1:08:02
Use that on the name.
1:08:04
I think that probably is the better question.
1:08:06
It's kind of weird.
1:08:07
It does seem really weird.
1:08:08
Yeah.
1:08:09
I don't know.
1:08:10
Or maybe put your hometown.
1:08:12
Yeah.
1:08:13
Somewhere in South Dakota or where you came from, you know, Alexandria, Minnesota.
1:08:19
But I think the key here is that it seems like she's trying to thwart anyone ahead of the
1:08:26
game, trying to thwart anyone that might be trying to sort of triangulate them for whatever
1:08:34
reason.
1:08:35
Oh, I mean, true crime.
1:08:37
So I kind of feel like, yeah, probably don't the city where you currently live.
1:08:43
But also it seems like just given the circumstances, it seems a little, it's us.
1:08:49
Yeah.
1:08:50
And it's like you're at work.
1:08:51
So obviously you live in the area, right?
1:08:53
Right.
1:08:54
And I don't know.
1:08:55
I don't know exactly what, you know, I don't know what city the Coles was in.
1:09:00
I didn't, I was like, I couldn't give a fuck.
1:09:03
Yeah.
1:09:04
Oh, actually, that's a lie.
1:09:08
It is in my notes here.
1:09:10
Sometimes I lie.
1:09:11
It's always on accident.
1:09:13
Video security footage captured the last sighting of Sarah Hart on March 23rd as she drove
1:09:21
her sunfire away from her job at the Hazel Dell Coles.
1:09:28
So I guess if you work in Hazel Dell and you don't want people to know that you live
1:09:32
in Woodland.
1:09:33
I don't know.
1:09:34
Seems like does still kind of seem like a stretch.
1:09:40
We should do the bleep button.
1:09:41
Like I don't go around telling people that I live in which is something you should never
1:09:46
do.
1:09:47
Don't do that.
1:09:48
Don't tell people that.
1:09:49
Okay.
1:09:50
And I live in.
1:09:51
Oh boy, I'm really glad that you censored both of those.
1:09:59
I find you.
1:10:00
Oh my God.
1:10:01
You were just talking about that the other night.
1:10:03
I'm like, I'm like, I'm being...
1:10:05
Okay.
1:10:06
Anyways, we're not even going to go there.
1:10:08
It's too much.
1:10:10
So a little bit more.
1:10:12
Neighbors told police they never saw the family's SUV.
1:10:17
So this is the ugly brown car.
1:10:21
Without their red kayak, a fixed to the top until the family drove away together March 24th.
1:10:29
Oh.
1:10:30
Interesting.
1:10:31
Yeah.
1:10:32
And I was like, I don't know what the logic is behind that exactly, but it's just any sort
1:10:39
of a deviation from like such an ingrained habit.
1:10:45
And looking back and hindsight, seeing those things and understanding, I'm not sure exactly
1:10:50
what the motivation was, but just seeing how they did something different and what did
1:10:56
that mean?
1:10:57
That is, it's weird for one to have a kayak on your car all the time.
1:11:02
All the time.
1:11:03
Also, it's red.
1:11:04
So like it's another one of those things like, hey, look at me.
1:11:08
What am I doing?
1:11:09
But to like take it off when you...
1:11:12
Yeah.
1:11:13
You've practically like, say what you're going to do.
1:11:16
You're going to escape the car and use the kayak.
1:11:20
They were drugged.
1:11:21
So I don't know.
1:11:24
I was like, I can't let this fester in my mind.
1:11:30
I just have like a really icky thought of like they cared more about like the kayak than
1:11:35
the children.
1:11:36
Right.
1:11:37
But they're obviously not going to survive presumably as well.
1:11:42
No.
1:11:43
Like they know that they're intoxicated and they're not going to be capable of escaping
1:11:46
the vehicle.
1:11:47
So you're never going to see the kayak again either.
1:11:50
But someone else could use the kayak can live on is like the awful thought I was having
1:11:55
was like, I see how you got there.
1:11:57
I kind of had that thought as well and wow.
1:12:00
Yeah.
1:12:01
I just like put myself in like her brain of like, oh, let's take this off so we don't break
1:12:06
it and like totally destroy it.
1:12:07
Even though we're about to like murder all these people.
1:12:11
Kill people.
1:12:12
Wow.
1:12:13
I thought, well, is that a bizarre take on that situation?
1:12:16
And maybe that makes the most sense.
1:12:18
I don't know.
1:12:19
None of it makes sense.
1:12:20
None of it makes any sense.
1:12:21
And it never will.
1:12:23
Yeah.
1:12:24
Maybe this part makes sense.
1:12:26
The house where they lived in Woodland located at 2501 Northwest 389th Street was a gray
1:12:36
split level pictures of the home were attached to the affidavit for search warrant following
1:12:44
the crash.
1:12:46
And this was just striking to me and it was odd because I had seen quite a few pictures
1:12:54
of the home interior and exterior at this point.
1:12:59
So it wasn't just seeing the house itself.
1:13:02
I think maybe it's silly that it didn't occur to me as I went to review the court documents
1:13:10
that those images would be attached.
1:13:14
Like maybe that's silly of me to not have seen that natural progression.
1:13:21
Like yeah, they would attach photos of the home to the search warrant.
1:13:27
Right.
1:13:29
Maybe that's, maybe that was dumb.
1:13:31
Like by just, you know, I taught it out for a minute.
1:13:35
But I think or maybe, maybe it was just chilling to see them after having already
1:13:44
learned so much about the outcome of the case.
1:13:48
Like seeing them and knowing that obviously something horrific happens and not necessarily
1:13:52
having researched all of the details myself and really formulated the full picture independent
1:14:02
to, you know, what I'd heard and what I'd read really kind of forming the full narrative.
1:14:09
I think where I landed was maybe it was just that for a family so present in pictures and
1:14:17
videos online, particularly on social media and even at like political and activist rallies
1:14:27
and things like that, it felt sort of weird for it now to be like the focus is on the photos
1:14:35
of of this like ghost of a house.
1:14:39
It's like a haunted house in a way.
1:14:41
Yeah.
1:14:42
It's like what I was picturing while you were talking about it.
1:14:44
Yeah.
1:14:45
It just, I don't know, it sort of takes on a different dimension in my mind.
1:14:50
I don't know.
1:14:51
It's like maybe I'm letting myself get carried away, but I just feel like it's, it's very
1:14:56
haunting.
1:14:57
It's haunting to see the photos in connection with now like, okay, well, we gotta go and
1:15:03
search the house and figure out what, what else is there?
1:15:08
What did they find in the house?
1:15:11
Like, did they find?
1:15:13
Polette, not a stuff, not good stuff.
1:15:16
Nothing like that.
1:15:17
Nothing like that.
1:15:18
I want to be clear that there, as far as I'm aware, there were no indications of, you know,
1:15:24
CSA or anything like that.
1:15:28
That would be truly, truly horrifying.
1:15:30
I mean, all of this is, there's a picture of them.
1:15:34
I just opened it as I'm trying to look at some of the photos from their Woodland house.
1:15:40
There's a photo of them and they're in the t-shirts.
1:15:45
There's a photo of them of Jennifer and Sarah with some of the kids out in front of the
1:15:51
Goonies house.
1:15:52
Oh, okay.
1:15:53
You sent me a picture of fruit on the counter.
1:15:57
Like a lot of food on the counter and a lot of wine.
1:16:00
Yep.
1:16:01
That's from inside the family home where they can bake apples.
1:16:05
No, I think those were real apples.
1:16:08
Just really not for the kids.
1:16:11
Two people cannot eat all of those apples.
1:16:13
Like that is enough apples.
1:16:14
They're going to go bad for the six kids.
1:16:18
They have like such a big yard too.
1:16:21
They did.
1:16:22
There was a lot of spots for the neighbors to hide food for the kids.
1:16:25
So you'll see what I mean.
1:16:28
Clearly they didn't spare any expense furnishing and/or stalking the fridge.
1:16:35
The rest of the house.
1:16:37
They had a doggy too.
1:16:40
I guess so.
1:16:41
Where's the doggy?
1:16:42
No idea.
1:16:43
I don't know if that dog was still around when that's unclear to me.
1:16:50
Very nice furniture.
1:16:52
Here's another one.
1:16:54
I'll just let you open it before I say anything.
1:16:59
The kayak is that Jennifer?
1:17:03
That is Jennifer.
1:17:05
Matching her red kayak.
1:17:07
I'm sorry.
1:17:09
Are you sending more?
1:17:10
No, I'm saying sorry for this photo.
1:17:14
I am sending another one.
1:17:15
No.
1:17:17
That one makes me so sad.
1:17:20
Keep Portland weird.
1:17:22
They're on Burnside.
1:17:23
They all look so fucking cute too.
1:17:26
Why can't you just be this?
1:17:29
Why?
1:17:30
Just love these kids that you actively, arguably went to a lot of effort to bring into your
1:17:38
lives.
1:17:39
They look like such cool kids too.
1:17:42
They're all sweet.
1:17:44
They look like they all have such just cool, unique personalities.
1:17:51
They look like they be really fun and funny.
1:17:55
And they seemed like they wanted to do what their parents asked of them.
1:18:02
Yeah.
1:18:03
And even if they didn't, it's clear.
1:18:06
I think in hindsight that it's like, well, you're not going to not do what.
1:18:10
Yeah, that is true.
1:18:12
Yeah, when you see them in some of these photos, it's pretty chilling.
1:18:17
It should have been so different.
1:18:20
Yeah.
1:18:21
Okay.
1:18:22
Okay.
1:18:23
That one was really, really chilly just because for us, Portland, obviously, that connection
1:18:29
is way, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, miss any one more.
1:18:34
Oh.
1:18:35
Oh, so kind of chilling with the cliff in the background to be honest, but it's a beautiful
1:18:41
photo.
1:18:42
And I feel like, God, this is the version of them that I feel like I want to remember.
1:18:49
You know, yeah, God, there's just like so many lives lost in like one fucking moment.
1:18:56
Oh, senseless.
1:18:58
Just the most horrific and selfish thing that I can really imagine.
1:19:03
You guys, this one's funny enough a little bit.
1:19:06
I'm not going to lie.
1:19:07
I'm like, I want people to adopt kids.
1:19:10
Like, I want all the kids to be taken care of, but not if like you're a fucking terrible,
1:19:15
gross, disgusting person.
1:19:18
Yeah.
1:19:19
Certainly not if you're all of those things.
1:19:21
Yeah.
1:19:22
If you're just weird, that's fine.
1:19:26
Yeah.
1:19:27
Be weird like in a cool way.
1:19:29
Be weird.
1:19:30
Be queer.
1:19:31
Just don't be a fucking murderer.
1:19:32
Yeah.
1:19:33
I don't think there's anything more to say about this.
1:19:36
I feel like we are really struggling to feel like we want to leave it in a different place
1:19:40
than where we are.
1:19:42
And we can't know.
1:19:44
Should we do the thing that we do?
1:19:46
Yeah.
1:19:47
It's an adventure that we're going to go on after this.
1:19:49
I'm hoping that it cheers us up.
1:19:51
I mean, it has more to do with the type of thing that Cassie enjoys.
1:19:56
So we're not.
1:19:57
But it'll be better for me.
1:19:59
Yeah.
1:20:00
She's going to be great after this, you guys.
1:20:02
I mean, while we'll be traumatized and then more traumatized.
1:20:08
That isn't true.
1:20:09
You're going to have so much fun.
1:20:11
I hope so.
1:20:12
There's booze involved.
1:20:13
Ooh.
1:20:14
Okay.
1:20:15
I'm listening.
1:20:16
I'm just a hot.
1:20:18
Spoiler alert.
1:20:20
Okay.
1:20:21
Let's do the things.
1:20:23
Have a creepy ass day.
1:20:25
We'll see you next Tuesday.
1:20:27
See you next Tuesday.
1:20:28
Sure.
1:20:29
Fucking asshole.
1:20:30
Yeah.
1:20:31
Who does pointless, senseless things to innocent children.
1:20:35
Ooh.
1:20:36
Fuck off and don't come back next Tuesday.
1:20:38
Or any other day, really, for that matter.
1:20:41
But especially Tuesday.
1:20:42
That's our day.
1:20:44
It.
1:20:45
Aw.
1:20:46
That was fucking sad, Caitlyn.
1:20:50
I know.
1:20:51
You goddamned bitch.
1:20:52
I know.
1:20:53
That's amazing.
1:20:54
I love it.
1:20:55
That's amazing.