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Talks to Dylan Rees about The Stranger - Summoned By Shadows · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
0:37
Quicker Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen Knife,
0:40
The Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:43
Hooray. You know Dylan, I've never felt
0:45
so high tech and up to date. We're sitting on my sofa at the
0:50
moment. It's Christmas time.
0:52
Almost it is. We've got Colin Baker in The
0:56
Stranger. What could be more festive than
0:58
that? The.
0:59
DVD player and two tiny little microphones strapped to our
1:03
bodies. We do.
1:04
We've got the strap on. Now look, we've been talking
1:09
about covering The Stranger for some time.
1:12
We have. And can I just ask you before we
1:15
go into episode one or Story 1, Summoned by Shadows?
1:19
Intriguing title, by the way. Indeed.
1:22
Well, what's your history with The Stranger?
1:24
I've never seen this, no. So when I was about 11-12,
1:31
something like that, I started picking up Doctor Who magazine
1:36
and back issues and learning about these things that were
1:39
sort of Doctor Who. So the first one I got was the
1:43
Terror Game which is the 4th 1:00 which is nothing like
1:47
Doctor Who at all but it is a sci-fi story The.
1:50
Terror game. Yes.
1:51
So we we haven't covered that one yet.
1:53
Sounds amazing. Well, I mean, we'll see whether
1:56
you like it. And I was like, I don't know why
1:59
people are saying this is like Doctor Who.
2:00
It's nothing like Doctor Who, it's just sci-fi.
2:02
But then I went back and got the others and you suddenly realise
2:06
that they do very much start off as Doctor Who in all but name.
2:10
Was this your first extended media discovery?
2:15
I think I, no, I think Shakedown was the first one I got, but it
2:20
would have been, it would be about the same time, like the
2:22
moment I'd seen Shakedown. I was all in for everything
2:26
else. You know, there was shakedown
2:30
downtime and then this and then the Autumn trilogy were sort of
2:33
that's like a solid five years of me just main veining spin
2:37
offering. I don't know why, because
2:39
obviously I did shakedown when I was younger, I did downtime when
2:42
I was younger. So I've I've covered a lot of
2:45
the stuff they're too hot for TV Oovra, shall we say.
2:48
I've never touched the stranger at all and I figured because I
2:53
thought I thought it was just going to be in a quarry with a
2:55
camcorder. Colin Baker and Nicola Bright
2:58
now. You say that like that's a bad
3:00
thing. There is a little bit of that in
3:02
this first one. Yeah, I've been really surprised
3:05
the last couple of weeks watching News 3 at preparation
3:09
for this. Why not?
3:10
How competently they're made, Two at the the standard of the
3:15
performances and three like. They're good scripts.
3:19
They are like someone. Does no one talk about this
3:22
stuff then? Do you know what it is?
3:24
It's because obviously when the show came back, everything
3:28
jumped down a rung. So Big Finish were no longer the
3:31
the most important bit of Doctor Who and this stuff.
3:33
Because if you think sort of towards the bottom end of that
3:37
is I don't know the error men books or something like that.
3:42
This The Stranger fell off because it's not Doctor Who,
3:46
like all the other ones that are still there are, you know,
3:51
Downtime's got the Brigadier and the Yeti and Sarah Jane Smith,
3:54
so people still talk about them a bit more.
3:56
But this, I mean, in theory, probably shouldn't even have a
3:58
TARDIS wiki page. It's just a bunch of actors in
4:02
something that happened to have been in Doctor Who.
4:03
Now, the fact that the first three stories are Doctor Who in
4:06
all but name is sort of lost to time.
4:09
Well, I want to ask you about that very quickly before we go
4:11
in. I know, I know, I can keep these
4:13
introductions going on and on and on.
4:15
Is this supposed to be set post trial of a Time Lord?
4:18
Is this supposed to be the Doctor as played by Colin Baker
4:22
and Miss Brown Perry as played by Nicola Bryant?
4:25
When they talked about doing it there Bill Bags and Christian
4:30
Darkin who wrote it. It's only contribution to any
4:33
form of Doctor Who. Just this one.
4:34
Yeah, just this one said it's Doctor Who in all but name.
4:40
It's set after Revelation and basically he has a few more
4:45
adventures, realising his sort of this regeneration isn't
4:50
working out and his new approach to the universe isn't working
4:53
out. So he goes back to what he says
4:55
in Twin Dilemma, which is, you know, I'm going to become a
4:59
hermit. So that that's that's where it's
5:02
supposed to be. I mean, do you know, if only
5:04
Eric Sabre would had the nuts to realise that.
5:07
Because that does make sense, right?
5:09
And when I watched this, I was, I figured it was post trail of
5:12
silent. You know, he's in the tent in
5:13
his first one sort of living on the rock.
5:15
I thought he was sort of hiding away from the tide laws after
5:18
they put him through that rigmarole of a trial.
5:20
I mean, that would also work. It wouldn't really explain why
5:22
Perry's there, though would. It.
5:24
Sorry, Miss Bram. Yeah, Miss Bram, get it right.
5:28
But they didn't, they weren't sure whether that Colin and
5:30
Nicola were going to do it. So they did approach Tom Baker
5:33
as well. So it wouldn't have worked.
5:36
He. Had getting out of bed for bill
5:37
bags money is he? But do you know who else they
5:40
approached to for the Miss Brown role?
5:42
Sophie Eldred and Debbie Watling.
5:46
Can you imagine Debbie Watling in this?
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Given what Nicola Bride delivers across the three we're talking
5:53
about today, no, I just can't imagine it somehow.
5:57
Oh, bless her. We'll give her a glass of red.
6:00
She'd do it. Yeah, very true.
6:03
We'll have 20 B&H and a glass of red and she's there.
6:05
Should we go into summon by shadows?
6:07
Yes, let's do it. I've got some very sort of pawny
6:10
music playing at the moment. It's not that pawny.
6:13
No, there's no sort of bow chicka.
6:16
Wow, Wows. If you want to do a dance with
6:18
me right now, you're in my house, so.
6:20
This music doesn't turn me on, I'm not going to lie.
6:22
OK, well, I'm going to press play.
6:24
Will you count us in? Yes, press play at home in
6:28
54321. Merry Christmas everyone.
6:34
OK, here we go. Instagram.
6:38
Is it the the Tate reel bill bags coming in?
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No, straight into the titles. Yeah, straight into the titles.
6:44
Now I'm imagining you've only seen these as ripped off Avhs
6:48
copper. Yes, absolutely terrible audio
6:52
quality, I'll have to say. Wow, now.
6:54
You're going to see it. In not quite high definition.
6:57
The full DVD. Low def Is that a thing?
7:00
That's. Right, Some of Some of My
7:03
Shadows is a great title. It is.
7:04
In fact, they're all great titles.
7:06
In his first 30. Christopher Darkin, Where is he
7:10
now? I don't know.
7:11
I did find him when I did my book but I never met him.
7:14
We just did it over the the e-mail now.
7:18
What's? This these models are made by
7:21
Mike Tucker and you know where you see that model again?
7:24
Tell me. In Dimensions in time, they
7:26
adapt it for the Ronnies thing. Oh, from the beginning of it,
7:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Actually, it's quite a nice model show, isn't
7:32
it? So so Tucker's doing the models.
7:35
So that's a professional working on this.
7:38
Can I ask please who is doing the lighting?
7:41
It's a man called Dick Cursor who is the lighting cameraman or
7:44
what we call adop or cinematographer there.
7:47
Well, can I say Dick Cursor, you were worth your weight in gold.
7:50
And at least three. Actually you see when Dick
7:53
Cursor stops working on the BBV film they they take a.
7:58
Mark covered. We watched one of the probe
8:01
stories the other day and I did enjoy it.
8:04
The one with the mutant, What's it called?
8:05
The second one. A natural selection.
8:08
The lighting in it was really flat and.
8:11
I think it's around that time that it's and they're recording
8:14
two of the probes at the same time.
8:16
Now we've landed run this alien world, they've got this little
8:19
alien market which is just somewhere in Shepherd's Bush.
8:25
It's not an actual market, is it?
8:27
Have they gone to an actual market?
8:29
Yeah, no, when you see the behind the scenes, it's just
8:32
like a road down the down the road.
8:34
Now can we just say very quickly look at what Nicola Bryant is
8:38
wearing? It's sort of shell suit jacket.
8:41
We are truly seeing the age of the time this is made.
8:43
Yeah. But also like it's just nice to
8:46
see her in the role without a tit sat, which is not something
8:49
I say lightly, but it does make more sense than a lot of the
8:52
stuff she wears. You know, I'm capable of a
8:55
certain amount of hyperbole. I I have, I am aware.
8:58
Will prepare yourself because you're about to get some.
9:01
I truly I'm a bit annoyed actually watching these yeah and
9:06
seeing the performances that Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant
9:08
deliver across these stories They just they they could have
9:14
had great opportunities on television.
9:16
They they can deliver really nuanced performances as they do
9:21
here in and you know these are cheapo productions.
9:24
I just felt like there was an expensive show in Colin Baker
9:28
and Nicola Bryan that we didn't have and this is a peek into
9:31
what you could have got. Yeah, I mean, this is what
9:33
people said at the time. They were like because the Colin
9:36
Baker era at this point was and the McCoy era to a certain
9:39
extent were seen as like a real low for the series because they
9:43
were the two eras that got cancelled.
9:44
And we don't agree with that. No, no, absolutely.
9:46
But that was the consensus. It was a tricky time, I think,
9:49
yeah. And so everybody was like, Oh my
9:53
God, look at what they what they could have done.
9:55
Now, would these performances work on a Saturday night in
9:58
1986? I don't know.
10:01
Well, you. Tailor the the material for when
10:03
they're going out. I just think it's a crazy thing
10:07
to say. They can act.
10:09
Both of them are good actors. Yeah.
10:11
They're not big. They're not giving big
10:13
performances in this and. And I don't think they were
10:15
always given the chance to acting doctor.
10:17
Absolutely, and Nicola is so much better with her normal
10:20
accent. Oh, you can just tell how
10:22
comfortable she is as well, and especially when she plays like
10:25
evil bitch in episode 2. I mean, wait till we get there.
10:28
Oh, and look who we've got here, Michael Wisher.
10:31
Now how on earth can you please explain to me did Bill Bags
10:36
manage to convince actors of the calibre of Michael Michael?
10:39
Wisher would do anything. He, he, he's in the audio
10:42
visuals, you know, the, the, the fan, the fan I.
10:46
Know he's in shakedown, yeah, as.
10:47
Well, the fan audios that Nick Briggs and Bill Bags and Gary
10:50
Ross used to do. Both him and Peter Miles show up
10:53
in a few of them. They just loved acting.
10:56
But I mean they weren't like super fate like everybody always
10:59
said about Wisher. He just loved acting and would
11:02
do it at the drop of a hat. No matter what the fee, Yeah, if
11:06
you get it at all. Yeah, I'm not going down that
11:08
route. Lovely little tracking shot here
11:10
of Miss Brown in the Just as like again, Bill Bags and Dick
11:16
Cursor are thinking about the shots that they're putting
11:18
together. Well, I just like in Doctor Who.
11:22
Yeah, I will make some comparisons very often.
11:26
If there's a scene we kind of bake with Nick O'Brien, it's
11:28
dialogue heavy. Yeah, and it is over the top
11:32
there. There was no dialogue at all.
11:33
She was just allowed to show how she was feeling just through,
11:37
just through her performance. It was lovely.
11:39
Exactly. Now she's come across this
11:41
beautiful house in the country. Which is in Wimbledon Park.
11:45
Have you been there? I've not, but you know, next
11:47
time you come to London, Joe, we'll do.
11:48
The location talk please. We'll find that sand pit as.
11:51
Well, go to that market, yes. Where's the sand pit then?
11:54
Oh, I don't know. It's.
11:55
Not where they're feeling. Tackle the side I've.
11:56
Got a feeling it might be but I can't remember off the top of my
11:59
head. Wherever they've gone, look at
12:01
this landscape, the outside and this.
12:04
If you put a classy filter over this, you know, make it filmic,
12:09
this would look quite expensive. Like they're, they're making
12:12
the, the best of what they can with the material they've got,
12:16
like the equipment they've got. It's, you know, it's probably
12:19
the stuff that they've borrowed from The Newsroom or so.
12:21
So this was funded by the BBC? It was, yes.
12:25
It was paid for by the BBC Film Club, which was a thing for
12:29
their internal staff to do, like amateur film making, so they
12:33
would have borrowed the kit from the just this one, just this
12:35
one. But so this is how little the
12:38
BBC cared about Doctor Who at the time that someone was able
12:41
to use their funding to create a RIP off.
12:45
So obviously Bill Banks wanted to go on after this.
12:48
So did he self funds the ones after?
12:50
That yeah, I think he made a profit on it, so I was able to.
12:52
Can you? It's out of these things sort of
12:55
roll. You make a bit of dollar on this
12:57
one that goes into the next one, yeah.
13:00
If you make the money back, so it's what Dantime never made its
13:02
money back because it was too expensive.
13:04
We had a lot of good actors in that didn't.
13:06
It it was about 55 grand, I think they spent on that,
13:09
whereas this I think was 5 grand.
13:11
Auton is 10 grand. I will be making some big
13:15
comparisons between Auton and In Memory Alone later because I
13:20
think excellent. I think Briggs does the same
13:23
thing in both, but brilliantly. We'll get there.
13:26
So now who is this fella? This is John Wadmore.
13:28
You'll see him appear again and again in this series.
13:31
John Wadmore is in every other big finish.
13:33
I'll do the finish big. Yeah, he's.
13:35
Only in everything. He is not a Doctor Who fan, but
13:37
he was one of Nick Briggs best mates from drama school.
13:40
And so he shows up in the audio visuals.
13:42
He shows up in these darling empire darling and yeah, he
13:45
shows up in a lot and then he quit acting and went to become a
13:48
teacher and so that's why he doesn't do it anymore.
13:50
He. Doesn't need it anymore.
13:51
But he's got. Korean here now.
13:53
But he was like, I think he's great, like, and the part he
13:57
plays in the later films of a stranger, which is not that this
14:00
one is a really great, a really great part.
14:04
But spoilers for you. So how long has the Stranger,
14:09
AKA The Doctor, been hanging out on this planet?
14:13
I don't think it's too long because Miss Brown's not
14:15
sticking around forever is her. Well, look at her.
14:18
Nope, she's gone off to the Rich party.
14:19
Look. Exactly, Michael.
14:21
Which is going to try and bang her.
14:22
Does that happen? I can't.
14:24
No, he comes on to her, doesn't he?
14:25
And then? Who's that?
14:26
I recognise him. I don't know.
14:28
Oh, that's not Alistair Lock, is it?
14:30
Maybe. Maybe it's a very.
14:32
Nice there. You usually turn up in these
14:34
things, you know. And this is just a building
14:36
site, like they're demolishing this building and it was
14:39
somewhere in London. And he just went, can we film
14:41
here? And it was the days before
14:43
health and safety had really got its feet sunk in.
14:45
And they just went, yeah, sure. And he filmed it on weekends.
14:48
He did it. It was something like two or
14:49
three weekends. They'd just all get together and
14:51
do it. I thought the production value
14:54
on someone by Shadows was good. I thought the productions got
14:58
better with each subsequent release.
15:01
I don't know if that that is the case as we go on after #3 but I
15:05
just really felt like they were figuring out how to do it cheap
15:09
but effective and what they the conclusion they come to come.
15:13
The third one is atmosphere. Just turn the lights off, you
15:17
know, pump some dry ice in and let people act.
15:21
Well, I'll, I'll let you know what I think of that as we go
15:24
on. Maybe you're going to absolutely
15:27
loathe that one. I enjoy in this.
15:31
I like the fact that, you know, it's quite a slight plot, but
15:34
essentially it's the city of death thing, the scar thing,
15:38
isn't it? That this character's trapped on
15:40
this planet and it's been split into multiple pieces and he
15:45
needs to repair his spaceship. Each of the first three had a
15:49
really strong science fiction idea in them.
15:52
Look at this quarry I. Swear that looks that is the
15:55
same colour sound as that. Yeah, I know.
15:56
I think it probably. Is and we're doing a sort of
15:58
Lawrence of Arabia here. We fade to him getting closer
16:01
and closer to the camera. Although admittedly it's not
16:04
quite the vast deserts and I imagine if you panned up a
16:07
little bit too much you might see the M25.
16:11
Oh, John. What more?
16:11
He's really throwing himself about that quarry, isn't he?
16:16
Oh, bless him. Well, I don't know.
16:18
I don't know. I just.
16:19
I do think there's some money on the screen though.
16:21
I don't know whether it's money, it's just.
16:23
You you can't realise how low my expectations were going into it.
16:28
It's. Just well executed.
16:31
It's well thought out. I mean, essentially, you know,
16:35
we talk about the later Bill Bags films of how they just
16:38
don't do things like set dressing and stuff like that.
16:40
But here they've got sets, they don't need to dress.
16:42
You get production value from this Sam piss.
16:45
You get production value from the posh house.
16:47
You get production value from the market.
16:50
I mean, I think you get production value from the
16:51
performances as well, you know, like, trust me, you know, we saw
16:55
Hazel Burrows in Probe When to Die.
16:59
There's not always production. That's what I mean, yeah.
17:04
What? What baffled me was right,
17:06
There's sequences, directed sequences here in Stranger that
17:11
are so well done. And then I'll think about that
17:13
sequence of Hazel Burrows up in that air shaft and probe what
17:17
happened. What happened to build back he?
17:19
Just doesn't care. He just wants to make money.
17:22
That's why I think he's like, make it as cheap as possible.
17:24
I've got a theory though, that because I know like having read
17:28
downtime the Lost Years of Doctor Who by Ted and Reese, a
17:31
good book if you've read it. Yeah, the small clubs to do
17:36
these commentary referencing your own work.
17:39
Honestly, I mean you what? You come here for the facts,
17:42
kids, don't you? But the thing that really stood
17:46
out was that Bags was trying to work his way into television,
17:50
wasn't he? And these were, like you say,
17:52
his audition pieces. I think he knows come probe when
17:55
to die. That is not going to happen.
17:58
And so he's just about, well, what can I make some money?
18:00
Yeah, I think. I think he's done by Zygon, you
18:05
know. Dylan, look at Nicola Bryant in
18:08
that dress. She.
18:09
Looks amazing, she's hot. I mean, even I'm getting a bit
18:12
hot here on the sofa. Yeah.
18:15
Oh, bless her. They put her in a fur coat as
18:17
well. Well, yeah, she's a glamorous.
18:18
Lady, she is a rich bitch now. She looks great.
18:22
I mean, has she, you know, I took spot the plot a little bit
18:26
to me. Has she just oh, look at her.
18:29
She decided to just leave the doctor now.
18:32
She's left. She's like, I can't stay here
18:34
because all you're doing is pissing about in a quarry.
18:37
Probably literally. You know, and she comes across
18:42
this guy who's rich and like, come and join us, but she's not
18:45
too sure because they kill people.
18:47
Do we ever Because Miss Brown's dropped from this series
18:50
eventually, isn't she? Or she decides to depart the
18:52
actress. The actress decides to depart
18:54
because she. She has a bit of a row.
18:57
She, well, she wasn't paid. Yeah, and yeah, that is
19:01
unthinkable given the performances she gives.
19:03
Oh Ouch. OK, you can't see this, but we
19:07
can, so I better explain it. A child has just been shot to
19:11
death on the. Screen and Nicola looks
19:14
concerned. Yeah.
19:15
They don't want to put a bit of gore on the screen, do they?
19:18
No well films. But it's also that in these spin
19:21
off films it's, you know, they're trying to be gritty, an
19:23
adult and stuff like that. So how do you make yourself
19:26
gritty an adult? It's gore and sex, isn't it?
19:28
Not that there's any sex in these.
19:30
Thank God, because when the sex does arrive, yeah, it's not very
19:35
sexy. Are you talking about Saigon or
19:38
are you talking about Nicola and Colin in the Arizona?
19:40
Solution. I was talking about that
19:41
sequence in Cyberon where the two were in the bed together and
19:44
he had his hairy chest out. Do you remember?
19:46
I do remember oh. No, don't do that.
19:48
Oh no, wait, it does get sexy. What are you talking about?
19:52
We'll get to that later on, but. Yeah, you better believe we'll
19:56
get that later on. Now the stranger has now met
20:00
John Wadmore's cat. What's his name?
20:02
We don't know. I can't remember.
20:03
OK, He's met, he's met John Waldmore.
20:05
Who's is he sort of a bit of a pariah from his culture, You
20:08
know, he's sort of. Yeah, he's an outcast because he
20:11
can't speak. I don't know whether he.
20:14
I think he's deaf as well. Yeah.
20:16
Would you do that now? I mean, you would cast them
20:19
authentically, yeah. Probably not, but I mean I
20:24
haven't even got the sound up very loud.
20:27
The suss was here. Colin Baker's performance.
20:29
I know it's completely. Changed since Season 20.
20:33
I know it's wild, isn't it? But I think for him, he saw it
20:38
as an opportunity to play it differently and to play because
20:43
like everybody, you know, Bill's going, it's Doctor Who, but he's
20:47
going, no, I'm seeing it as a separate character and trying
20:50
to. And so he's pitched it
20:52
differently. But it, it really just shows how
20:56
good he is though, I think. And I, I'm coming to the
21:00
conclusion now that Colin will always turn up.
21:04
He will always give you 100%. And it's the scripts will either
21:10
give him material that makes him shine or let him down.
21:13
But either way, he'll give 100%. So he'll he'll do that sequence
21:17
in the Twin Dilemma where he's in the costume room and
21:19
screaming his head up about the crashing borders of the
21:22
universe. Even though it's very
21:23
problematic, it will still give it 100% because that's what he's
21:26
being paid to do. What's lovely is when he gets a
21:28
script like this where he can actually fucking act.
21:33
Yeah, I mean, you just, you never see the moments, the
21:37
performance. He gives him this.
21:38
You never see any moments like it in this Doctor Who.
21:40
Although it's in the third one, he starts shouting at one point
21:45
and it does sound like yeah, our lovely old Colin from season 23.
21:49
Lovely old Colin. Michael Wisher looked sharp.
21:54
There isn't. It tucks, he looks good.
21:55
I like him with the face paint on and although.
21:58
It's, it's that sort of incongruous image, isn't it, of
22:00
the the painted man in this society?
22:03
By by the end of it though, I mean it feels a little bit like
22:06
this. It's just, he's just a master
22:08
RIP off, you know? Well, I mean, aren't they all?
22:12
They're all super villains. But you know, by the end of it,
22:15
he he is literally in a he's crispy.
22:18
Master isn't. He yeah, I can't wait to go for
22:21
that bit. Actually, if you could make up
22:23
jobs as well. Yeah, just going to be me going.
22:26
Wow, I thought this was going to be shit.
22:29
The make up artist for this found me on Twitter very
22:32
recently. I'd posted about something I
22:35
posted. I was watching this on Doctor
22:36
Who's anniversary and she just went oh memories my one and only
22:40
IMDb credit and puts a bunch of pictures I've never seen before
22:45
that she'd taken from the day. That shot there, so Bags is
22:50
shooting through a log fire through the flames at Colinburg.
22:55
That's a lovely shot it. Is it's very nice he's.
23:01
I didn't think before I watched these that he was a very
23:04
thoughtful director. No, but he.
23:06
But at one point he was. He's a young, ambitious man who
23:09
cares when he's making these, but unfortunately.
23:14
Do you think everyone gets phenomenal?
23:15
I'm not looking at you, and I'll say that's right.
23:16
Do you think everyone gets to a point in their career where they
23:18
stop caring? Yeah, I think they do.
23:20
I just need to make money. Like he as far as I know he
23:23
still works for the BBC in Southampton, but I think.
23:28
In that audio sound place. I think it's their newsroom or
23:31
something like. That where box hangs out in
23:33
probe went to. But yeah, yeah.
23:36
But I think it's just like, you know, he's just really like,
23:40
like, I think he had aspirations of being like a big telly
23:43
director, but he just never, never got there.
23:46
Now this is a lovely shot. Beautiful.
23:48
And they do this again at the end.
23:49
So it's it's a silhouette of the stranger.
23:53
I keep wanting to say the doctor.
23:54
I'd call him the Doctor. The silhouette of the Doctor.
23:56
On a sand dune at night. Very similar to that promo shot
24:00
of the 13th. Doctor Very similar, yes, but at
24:04
the end of the story it's him and Miss Brown, isn't it?
24:07
So the contrast is quite nice there.
24:09
She's come back and they're off for some jolly adventures.
24:12
Yeah, well, jolly's the word. Yeah, it's not a very fun
24:16
universe, is it? Well, the second one is quite
24:18
fun. Well, yeah, but perhaps for the
24:20
wrong reasons. I don't think Nicola Bryan has
24:24
ever looked this glamorous. I know she looks amazing.
24:26
Ever. She looks beautiful, Michael
24:30
Wishes says. I'll do it if I can do scenes
24:32
with her, yeah. Michael Wisher chain smoking.
24:36
He smoked so much Michael Wisher in his myth Makers.
24:39
He sits there chain smoking for half an hour telling his his
24:43
anecdotes. I mean, I will say, right,
24:44
Michael Wisher, I feel like he understands what he's playing
24:48
here. Yeah, absolutely.
24:50
Peter Miles in the second one, whilst I still think it's a
24:53
grand performance, but he wonders what the hell is going.
24:57
On he signed up for. Wisher just has A at ease about
25:01
him on the screen, doesn't he? He's just he, he can do an
25:06
effortlessly sort of cool sinister villain.
25:10
You know, it's oh. I think it's going to lean in
25:13
the kisser then well. No, and so he's in a voice goes
25:16
one of the vampires, goes this. This line of questioning isn't
25:20
appropriate. Stop trying to shagger.
25:22
I think actually what I heard him saying was scar off.
25:27
Because. Centuries that divide me shall
25:29
be undone. We're trying to remove ourselves
25:32
from 80s Doctor Who, but someone still needs to lust after Perry
25:35
slash Miss Brown. If you squinted though right,
25:39
you could imagine 23 season 23 of Doctor Who opening a quarry
25:45
like this. The Doctor maybe, you know, it
25:48
wouldn't be as serious as this is.
25:52
They called it. I think they could have done it.
25:53
They could have pulled it off. You think instead of trial this
25:56
should have been the big reboot? I think it would have been
26:00
interesting to have some introspection given the the
26:04
volcanic events that occur from Twin Dilemma to revelation of
26:08
the dialects. It is just, yeah, I mean it is
26:10
insane that Doctor Who gets cancelled and the same
26:14
production team are just allowed to sit on their asses for 18
26:16
months and come up with the same old shit.
26:19
What's astonishing then, and obviously we did this one we
26:21
talked about Dragon Fire, is when the new product, well, a
26:24
new script that just comes in the whole show feels different.
26:28
It's just like someone has gone into a dusty old attic and
26:32
opened a window. But I think Colin deserved that.
26:37
Like, I wouldn't lose McCoy. And I know I'm hard on McCoy and
26:40
I love him. I do love him as the Doctor.
26:42
And I am getting increasingly fond the more I talk to people
26:45
like you. Why?
26:47
Just feel like Colin deserved these opportunities.
26:49
I know it's a shame he didn't get his full three years, but
26:52
after when they got to the end of 22 and went, this isn't
26:56
working. They didn't just go right, let's
26:58
get a new script. I mean, truthfully, they should
27:00
have got a new producer as well. But then if we didn't, if we got
27:02
a new producer, then would we have got Cartmel Night for the
27:05
McCoy? Got McCoy.
27:07
And come on, would you rewrite any of that?
27:10
No, but it's just it is just a show you.
27:12
Might not have got the wilderness years because the
27:15
show may have continued if there had been a producer, you know,
27:19
like like who was in the running for for producing it?
27:22
Was Colin Brake in the run for it?
27:24
Was he a scripted thing? No, I don't think Colin Brake
27:26
would there. There was a guy who they
27:28
interview on the box set, wasn't there?
27:30
And then there was all the independent companies who were
27:32
interested in doing it. But the moment they get a whiff
27:34
of Steven Spielberg might be interested.
27:36
Just nobody wants Verity Lambert's new version of Doctor
27:40
Who, which is a crying shame. I know we have all of this sort
27:43
of mad cancellation anxiety as a result of the 1986 hiatus, but
27:51
and as you have explored on your podcast ad nauseam, the result
27:56
of it being cancelled was really interesting stuff happened like.
28:00
This, it probably, I think it went away for a bit too long.
28:04
I think while the show didn't need a break, in my mind there's
28:08
a world where perhaps it ran through until the 30th
28:11
anniversary and finished there for a bit.
28:13
You get the TV movie and then it comes back about 2000.
28:17
But for whatever reason, they were so busy exploring the
28:20
option of a film all the time that people forgot actually it's
28:25
ATV show and maybe we should try and try and do that.
28:28
Like people are going to think are mad, not you.
28:32
I do think. You're mad?
28:33
No, no. But when I say this, you won't
28:35
think I'm mad, but people will think I am, because people gag
28:39
for that 90s series of Doctor Who, right?
28:43
To see what Doctor Who would look like alongside The X-Files
28:46
and and DS9 and Babylon 5 and all those sort of things.
28:50
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't get rid of this wilderness year
28:54
stuff for anything. But for me, like Doctor Who is
28:58
so the the journey is so plotted out.
29:00
I know it's so well, it all feels planned.
29:02
I know it wasn't, it was all improvised, but I kind of
29:05
wouldn't change it. Fair.
29:06
I wouldn't lose all those books that I'm exploring.
29:08
Yeah. All the audios.
29:10
Yeah, no, I'm the same. It's like, yeah, I mean, where
29:14
would we be without 72 PDAs? We probably wouldn't have met.
29:19
Yeah, right now. It's a stranger didn't exist.
29:23
Your life would be, well, less. Dramatic.
29:25
I also wonder whether I would have carried on liking Doctor
29:28
Who had it just been something that was on all the time in my
29:30
childhood. Yeah.
29:33
Because maybe I would have got to a point where there was a
29:35
doctor that I didn't like, so I just turn off.
29:39
I'm not saying the word no, I don't know, but I'm not.
29:42
Not a Doctor Who fan because I'm not no, but like you.
29:46
Are in too deep now, there's no way you're pulling out.
29:49
But in the well, I know that's the problem.
29:51
It's in a sort of fickle 11 year old's brain or something like
29:56
that. You know, maybe being into
29:57
Doctor Who and liking Sylvester McCoy and then somebody else
30:01
comes along and perhaps I walk away.
30:03
I don't know. No, this is a peek and twig
30:07
universe. I do not want to know.
30:08
I know exactly. My Sunday mornings would be
30:10
miserable without you. All right now we're almost in
30:15
the climax of the story. Now it's somehow we got here.
30:18
We're so quick. It's it's only 30 minutes, this
30:21
first one, I think the second one's 30 minutes as well, but.
30:24
No, the second one's 42 I think. That was it.
30:26
And the third? The third one's definitely 42 I.
30:28
Think they're great length? I don't think they outstay their
30:30
welcome at all. The 6th 1 is an hour and a half
30:33
long. Does it?
30:34
I'll say it's welcome. Maybe you know how some of these
30:37
big finished ones, you know, as you you you get along and
30:39
they're like 2 1/2 hours long and you're like, oh, this could
30:42
have been an hour and a half. Yeah, I like 40 minutes of BBVI
30:48
can absolutely hand. How long was Progwin to die?
30:51
I mean it felt like it was 3. Hours.
30:53
Two days long I think. I think it was an hour, maybe 90
30:59
minutes, I can't remember. Either way, it was too long.
31:01
I mean, this, this is almost a dream come true for certain
31:04
Doctor Who fans. Is Wisher as the villain against
31:07
Colin as the Doctor? You know, like he got Dara and
31:11
people when he it was it was slime.
31:14
But this is kind of what we want.
31:16
And they're making them like, that's obviously quite a small
31:19
space, but they're making the best of it, sort of having.
31:23
It's candle lit though, I don't think you can go wrong with a
31:26
candle. No, exactly.
31:27
And Colin Baker's got stubble in this as well.
31:29
Oh. Look at his scabby hands, yeah?
31:33
Touching her up. Is that another version of him?
31:36
Yeah. How many are there?
31:37
I think there's three that we see.
31:39
So we get Superman, Scabby Master and Painted face Man.
31:44
So sorry, can you just explain for everybody who might not have
31:47
explored this sort of why is he splintered?
31:50
I can't remember. When he crashed on the planet
31:52
and that's what happened. And now he's been wooing the
31:55
locals, sort of destroying their souls and hypnotizing them to
31:59
basically find all the technology he needs to.
32:02
I don't know, he's matter. He didn't crash his chips in
32:05
orbit and it's the matter transmitter that split him in
32:08
three. And then he's, you know, he's
32:10
going to matter transmit back up there when they find the tech.
32:14
Into what? Into one person.
32:15
Into one person who are going there, OK.
32:18
That's quite a tasty idea. There it is.
32:20
I don't know whether it's fully explored here, but you know,
32:25
you, you could do a Doctor Who based on that now, but.
32:28
Like like a new series opener is a sort of a lightish plot to
32:34
reintroduce the characters. Or introduce, introduce the
32:37
characters Joe We don't the stranger and Miss Brown.
32:40
I've not seen them. Before, OK, yeah, sorry, squint
32:43
and you'll miss him. This is quite a light plot, but
32:47
it does absolutely what it needs to do, doesn't it?
32:49
It establishes him, it establishes their relationship.
32:53
And I mean, why does she go back to him at the end that I can't
32:57
remember. Is it just because I?
32:58
Will. Well, he's decided to go back on
33:00
his adventures. Well, how?
33:02
Do I get about? I mean, I'm not too sure.
33:04
They're already there in every story.
33:05
Yeah, because you know, you're not going to do a TARDIS, are
33:08
you? But is it supposed to be a
33:10
TARDIS course It is OK. It's like the time travellers,
33:13
they're they do universal, the McCoy and the time travellers.
33:17
Oh, you're not talking about the professor and race?
33:20
Like they they they very rarely go to the ship, but they do
33:24
occasionally, and the ship sounds a lot like a TARDIS.
33:29
You know, this morning I said to Mark, I said this like the
33:32
happiest day of my life. I'm getting to talk to Dylan
33:34
Reece about Colin Baker, Nicola O'Brien and Sophie Aldridge.
33:38
What a win. We're not a Sophie yet.
33:41
We will be Oh, yes, we're not too far away from her now.
33:44
In fact, you know, I've got a couple of face packs for us that
33:46
we. Oh.
33:47
Lovely. Just like she does in.
33:51
I'm going to cosplay her at my next convention.
33:54
Oh, I'm going to go as those morphed on brains.
33:57
You know it's going to put a big hat on my head.
34:00
Oh, here we go, Crispy Master. Now we haven't seen his face.
34:04
Yet. And that's because I don't think
34:06
the mask works quite as well as they wanted it to.
34:08
No. In fact, the only real
34:11
production deficiencies are noticed in all three of them.
34:15
It was often when they were trying to do prosthetics.
34:17
Yeah. They're so hard to.
34:19
Do money for that, don't you? And time, you know, to really do
34:24
them properly. There's a reason why everybody
34:26
always complaints about prosthetics that they have to be
34:28
in really early because it takes 3 or 4 hours to do the good
34:32
stuff, sometimes longer. You know, how is Bill Bags a
34:36
straight man or a game man? Who's a straight man?
34:38
OK, well, you know how sort of people say that gaming, they
34:43
sort of, you know, they have an eye for fashion.
34:45
Please don't look at me when I'm saying this.
34:48
And that they sort of know how people should be dressed and
34:50
look to make them look sexy. Yeah, well, JNT didn't have a
34:55
fucking clue, did he? The way he made Nicola Bryan
34:57
look. When you get a straight man in
34:58
bill bags, look at her. Yeah, put the straights in
35:01
charge. That's what's wrong with Doctor
35:03
Who. Oh no.
35:04
Then we get Amy Pond, Clara Oswelder.
35:06
Good grief. All the women are sexually
35:10
voracious. They weren't in the Chibnol era
35:13
and he's a heterosexual. Actually, I think he might be
35:16
the straightest person to have ever worked on Doctor, and
35:20
that's why some people can't handle that era, yeah.
35:25
I like the fact there's a rug hanging on the wall.
35:28
I'm pretty sure my nan had that rug.
35:30
I'm. Pretty sure that looks like the
35:31
rug in my kitchen right now, you know?
35:33
Could be the same one. Where's that rug?
35:36
I'll buy it off bill bags for 20 lbs. 20 quid £20.
35:40
For a screen new stranger, run. Absolutely massive, so straight
35:45
to eBay and selling it on £400. Exactly.
35:49
That is quite horrible. It is, but then when he starts
35:52
to breathe the Hamas, his cheeks move.
35:54
Can you see? Yeah, because the the lighting's
35:57
great, though they're lighting him from below, so it's, it does
35:59
look quite horrific. Yeah, but yeah, because he
36:03
hasn't got the nostrils if they poke the nostril holes.
36:06
It wouldn't do that. He's literally shoved something
36:08
up his nose. Little is that it's just his
36:09
nose hair. No, I think that is.
36:11
That's horrible. Oh Jesus Christ, he's screaming
36:16
his head off. Well.
36:17
That's what he gives it his all, old Michael Wisher.
36:19
And then we see the three faces. They merge back together.
36:24
And really tells the story clearly, doesn't it?
36:27
But then the the professor, the stranger, the wanderer, they do.
36:36
The dentist. The dentist?
36:38
Yeah, the foot doctor. Oh, there he is.
36:41
Yeah, he's he's whole again. He's quite, he's quite happy.
36:44
Do you know what I can't? I watched this one a couple of
36:47
weeks ago. I forgot on how it ends.
36:51
He's double crossed them and so the doctor is fucked with the
36:54
transomat and it killed him. Thank you.
37:02
I don't think I ever saw Michael Wisher at a convention, but I
37:04
wish I did. Did you ever see Pete Miles at?
37:07
One yeah, I saw him say some terribly anti-Semitic things
37:10
that are not. Going on stage once like Jason?
37:12
Yeah. Oh yeah.
37:16
Yeah, they wish there was a mute button.
37:18
Yeah, Michael, Jason. Is some of these actors of a
37:20
certain age? Yeah, people of a certain age.
37:23
I don't know. And there we go.
37:26
He's dead. Oh, or maybe that did look a
37:28
little bit cheap, that CGI explosion of the space.
37:31
But. That with that CGI explosions
37:33
and enhancement done later. What does the original one look
37:36
like then? I can't.
37:37
Remember. I do love that rug.
37:42
Great rugs, billbags. He knows a good rug when?
37:44
He's oh God, Michael wishes face has just melted.
37:49
All over this time doing the gore and.
37:51
Oh, look at that lighting. Yeah, there's just like a beam.
37:54
Of light. Over their faces.
37:56
Wowzers. I mean, you don't get that in
37:59
Doctor Who. That'd.
38:00
Be sometimes cases more, yeah. And they thought about it, yeah.
38:05
You get flood lighting in season 22.
38:07
They only think more is. More exactly.
38:10
But yeah, just everybody's given it their.
38:13
All and then Colin just gave a look of sort of like the old
38:16
Doctor ish Colin of like, OK, let's go.
38:21
Although the house is disappearing, turning into a
38:23
sand dune. Yeah, was all a mirage.
38:26
I can't think I can see cyber control in the distance there,
38:29
you know? And there we were, doing these
38:33
tracking shots across the desert again.
38:35
Almost like I'm watching Cakes of Androsoni all over again.
38:37
Exactly. The stranger is awaiting Miss
38:43
Brown. She's not sure whether she wants
38:44
to approach because of they're not sure of their mates anymore.
38:47
Really. No.
38:49
Well, she tried to strangle her once.
38:50
She wasn't. But yeah, well, he went.
38:52
He offered her all the time and space and she ends up sitting in
38:54
a sandpit. I mean, that's often the case of
38:57
Doctor Who, isn't it? Let's be honest.
38:59
True. Oh.
39:01
I love the subtitles. Whoops of delight.
39:05
Oh no. I'm pleased she ditches that
39:06
coat though in the second one. I like that coat.
39:08
I'd wear that of. Course you do.
39:15
I mean, I I adore your sense of fashion.
39:18
She like Colin Baker's string around this coat.
39:21
Well, he's on a budget. He's the cosmic hobo.
39:25
I like the coat, though. Yeah.
39:27
I mean look, that's He wants to wear black.
39:29
I know. Oh.
39:31
Man, come the third one, he's in a suit.
39:33
He looks absolutely. The second one is wearing
39:36
waters. No, but when he just wears a
39:39
normal suit, he looks amazing. Oh, look at this now.
39:42
So we're doing another silhouette shop.
39:44
We've got the John. Waters, Moore and his misses.
39:48
They're they're sort of dancing around in silhouette and then
39:51
walking into the screen is our Colin and Nicola the Stranger
39:55
and Miss Brown. In their most iconic roles.
39:59
But look at that. He takes that.
40:00
I just. I just think that's nicely done.
40:02
Me too. Really nice done ending.
40:04
It's a bit like the ending of The Green Death, yeah.
40:07
But less tears. Then and that flow by I.
40:09
Did best 30 minutes you've ever had?
40:13
Well, still to come. All right, so as as a first
40:19
experience of this, you're you're sold, you're in.
40:23
I was really surprised when when I was just to come to his car, I
40:27
was super surprised. I was I was really expecting
40:30
Poundland Doctor Who and it is but a Poundland Doctor Who done
40:35
by people who give a shit. And what I think you've got in
40:38
season 22 is expensive. Doctor Who for the time for
40:43
people that don't give a shit. And so I'd rather watch this,
40:48
you know, but it's Bags direction that surprised me the
40:51
most more than anything else because I've been so hard on
40:54
what he does later on to see him in his in his heyday and when
40:59
his creative juices are flowing. Yeah, there is potential.
41:03
He's a young man who wants to be a film and television director,
41:07
and he's giving it his all. Was this his very first?
41:11
He tried to do a film after the audio visuals called Scarecrow
41:16
City, which was just like a weird sci-fi thing, but it was
41:18
never completed and all the footage is lost.
41:22
Scarecrow City, Yeah. But it was the same sort of team
41:25
like Nick Briggs and people like that.
41:27
Do you think you might be able to find it somewhere on the dark
41:29
web? No, I don't.
41:30
I don't think it's ever. I mean, at the time, like you
41:35
kind of, we were talking in the week as I was watching through
41:38
these on so WhatsApp and you were saying, you know, can you
41:42
see now why I spent the 90s, you know, obsessed with this stuff?
41:46
Like what? Like what was this your Doctor
41:48
Who in the 90s? Yeah.
41:49
It was, I wasn't a particularly strong reader, so I had trouble
41:52
with the new adventures and missing adventures.
41:55
So to get something like this and then when they went into
41:57
audio with the professor an ace, it was like, well, this is this
42:00
is as good as it's going to get. Did you watch his over and over?
42:03
Like, oh, yeah, I've seen them. I've, you know, I will have
42:06
watched this as much as say, I've seen the protons or
42:08
something like that. Oh.
42:09
I love you, Dylan Reece. Can I ask one last question
42:13
before we end this and then head into the second one?
42:16
Go on. What are the audios like?
42:18
I've not explored any of them at all.
42:21
Well, we're going to do them at some point.
42:23
Well, we're in line with this on TV.
42:26
I can't really remember. So the first one is like a big
42:30
sci-fi thing that they couldn't possibly do on on video.
42:35
And the second one is actually what becomes the basis for the
42:39
final video. So you get, you'll get the same
42:42
story twice is. There.
42:44
Is there a handful? Is there just two?
42:45
There's two and then there is 2 short stories that were made
42:50
much later without Colin Baker, and they've recently done an
42:54
audio novel of a new story. Because Mark said he listened to
42:59
one of them and it was super dramatic, like really like a lot
43:04
of shouting and, and like really aggressive performances.
43:09
But he said it was a bit like a slap in the face, like quite an
43:13
intense. Well, I look forward to to
43:15
experiencing it. Dylan, what is the name of the
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second stranger video we're going to be watching today?
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It's called more than a Messiah. It's.
43:23
Another great title, isn't it? Should we go and watch it then?
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Let's go watch it. Let's do it.