Latest / Cuff’s Basement / Red Dragon

Transcript

Red Dragon · Cuff’s Basement

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Well, Ryan, I'm very excited to announce that we have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: a new intern.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: From Bridgewater State. Oh, wow. They were the only school that...
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Would accept us. Responded to my letters. Yep.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: If one of your interns passes away mysteriously, they should
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: be worried.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: That's true. And they sent us like profiles, like resumes,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I guess. You don't really have much of a resume
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: if you're in college. And they had pictures with all
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: of them. So let me tell you, I picked quite
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a girl for us. Her name is Julia.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: For us. For us.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Her name is Julia. She's a beautiful, beautiful girl. She's
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a major or something. I don't remember what her major is.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: But she goes to Bridgewater State. Okay. And she'll be
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: starting this weekend working on the pod.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Production's been lagging, so it's pretty glad to hear that
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: we're going to have some hands here.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to be involved. Me and Julia
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: are going to have some private onboarding. I don't.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Want to be involved. Thank you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so we should, we'll be, it's a remote location.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: You know, it sounds to me, it sounds based on
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: this news that someone's lunar trip might be landing back
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: on Earth soon, based on this news. Just a, just
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: a theory.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Are you referring to, you're referring to Pastor Rich and Cheyenne?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I think he might.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: This is completely different.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: He might get news and he might show back up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't want to.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: That's been his trend.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I don't want to introduce the two of them. But, yeah, no,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: that's the good news. That's great. We'll see how it
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: turns out.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: We should introduce Julia on the next episode.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: We will.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cuff's Basement. I'm your co-host, Tim. And
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I'm with my co-host, Ryan.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, everyone.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: And it's October, guys. It's that spooky season already. Woo!
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Spooky season.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Leaves are changing.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: So, we're recording this in August, but I'm going to
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: release it in October.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: That's, you know. Wow. Look behind the curtain.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Are you that? Like, you have that many episodes to release?
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's appropriate.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Um, okay, sure.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I think you could say this is like a, maybe
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: not a horror movie, but a thriller.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Definitely. Definitely a thriller.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Um, but I'm here with a very special guest. It
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: is my sister! Woo! Megan. Uh, not Brittany. I do
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: have two sisters. And we're talking about the film Dragon
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of Red. Yep. Um, which is a... Comedy? comedy yes
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: actually yes it is a romance in a way it
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: isn't romance yeah it is so i would say well
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: we we had talked about on the silence of the
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: lambs pod because when we were here last year that's
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: when we did silence of the lambs right yes um
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: and i think you said last year you wanted to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: do red dragon i did and uh we had said
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: that silence of the lambs was the first horror movie
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to win best picture but then we were like is
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: it a horror movie so i think that silence of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the lambs is probably more of a horror movie and
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: has more horror elements than this movie, in my opinion.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I think it's scarier.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: You got the skin suit. You got the night vision scenes.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: You got, like, the girl in the hole.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: You got Lecter's whole thing at the end.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: You got Lecter's whole thing at the end. Very violent.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: But I think, like, when you say... I think when
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: people say, like, it has horror elements, but I don't
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: see it as, like, a horror movie. You know what
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Agree.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And this is based on... This is a 1981 novel
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: called Red Dragon by Thomas Harris. And it was written
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: before Silence of the Lambs.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: But then Silence of the Lambs comes out. Obviously, it
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: was a massive success.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: 1991?
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Silence of the Lambs is 91.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And they had already made a movie of the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: book Red Dragon before Silence of the Lambs.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So for those of you that don't know that, there
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: was a Hannibal Lecter movie that came out before Anthony
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Hopkins played him in Signs of the Lambs. It was
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: called Manhunter. It came out in what year?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: 1986.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: 1986, the year I was born. And it's starring William Peterson,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: who is Grissom in CSI. Oh. He's Will Graham.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, I love Grissom.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: And he also played Mr. Walker in Fear with Mark Wahlberg.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I love Fear. Reese Witherspoon.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Great one.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And Hannibal Lecter was played by Brian Cox from Succession.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yep. Wow.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So really good casting. Great cast. Now, I had never
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: seen Manhunter. So Ryan had seen it.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: So I watched it. You didn't get to see it
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: this week.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I did not. I'm sorry.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I was able to watch it this week just because
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I had seen Red Dragon, but I had never seen Manhunter.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And I thought, if I'm ever going to watch it,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I was shocked by how.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Scene for scene, like cookie cutter. The, the two are like,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: like most of red dragon is, is man Hunter, like
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: line for line.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Like the script is exactly the same. Now granted they're
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: based off a novel. So maybe the novel just was
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: like this. There are some key differences, which I think
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: we can talk about later. So when I was watching
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: man Hunter, I was like, Oh, this makes me respect,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: respect red dragon less. And I like this movie more because,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: But then by the end, I was like, no, Red
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Dragon is better. Red Dragon is a better version of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the two. What do you think?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I think Manhunt... I think because they're both... We talked
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: on text about this. I'm always fascinated by this idea
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: where two people for very different reasons do the same story.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Do the completely different book. And not like a remake.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: This person made the movie as a police procedural in 1986.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: This person or this team of people... made this movie
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: to be a sequel to a very classic movie, or
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: a prequel to it, but have the same vibe as
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: The Silence of the Lambs. So it's very different operations.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I think Manhunter, if you're criticizing it as a film,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: is probably better than Red Dragon. This cast is so
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: goddamn good in Red Dragon, I would watch Red Dragon.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So the reason I disagree with you that the film
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Red Dragon is better is the director of Manhunter is better.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: But I don't think, I think the story of Red
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Dragon is better.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I think because, truly, I think the interest from Manhunter is, like,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: this is the Will Graham story. Like, they do cut
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: back to Francis Dollar Hyde. By the way, amazing Francis
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Dollar Hyde in Manhunter as well.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Tom Noonan?
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Tom Noonan. He passed away last year as well.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Tom Noonan is the villain from Robocop 2.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: He's the villain in Last Action Hero.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Really creepy, super tall dude.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Very, very tall. Used in a lot of movies. People
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: definitely recognize him if they see him. They cut back
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: to Dollar Hyde a lot, but it's still very police procedural, stark,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: person at the end of their wits kind of thing.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Where this movie is like, let's kind of do the ensemble.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Dollar Hyde gets a whole, you follow him for a while,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you follow Will for a while. They kind of jump
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: around a lot, which gives you a fuller picture of
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: the story. I just think Manhunter's more concise. This movie, like,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: my problem with Red Dragon is that it needs an eye.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: It needs a director who had a style to it because...
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: There's no style to it. There's no style. But again,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: you have such great actors doing great stuff, you can
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, you know what? Who cares?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: The script is better. Again, we'll get into it, but
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: there's a couple key plot points that Manhunter does not
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: do that I think make Red Dragon better. Now, for...
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Just for the backstory, so Manhunter comes out It's kind
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: of a flop.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does not exist at all.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And one criticism about it. So I was watching Manhunter.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: It's very 80s. Extremely. It's like very Art Deco. Like,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you know, like a translucent wall you would have in
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: a shower of like blocks? Yes. That's very 80s Art Deco. Yes.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Tons of those walls. So I thought, oh, just it
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: was the 80s. But then I was reading reviews that
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: came out at the time. And the reviews were like,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: this entire movie looks like an episode of Miami Vice.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Like, what is going on?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So, and I don't think it really lends itself to the,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: this is not like an art deco story, in my opinion. No.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's this weird thing that we have
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: this Rosetta Stone of Silence of the Lambs being like, oh,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: this is how you do like a Hannibal Lecter-esque story now. Like,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: that's how we, that's our foundation for everything. This movie
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: at that time didn't give a shit about that. They even,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: his name is spelled differently too, I think, in Manhunter.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's not, Yeah, it's L-E-C-K-T-O-R.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Or something like that. It's a very different vibe. So
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like they just didn't care. And this movie
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: we're watching is truly trying, down to the crew, is
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: trying to be Silence of the Lambs again. Which is smart.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Barney.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And I think we'll talk about the director of Red Dragon.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So then, Silence of the Lambs in 1991. Then they
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: came out with Hannibal, which was what year?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: 2001, ten years later.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: And it was awful. People hated it. It was critically panned.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen it. The book is genuinely terrible.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, I read it. I don't like the book.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: The book is terrible.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Terrible.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Jodie Foster wouldn't be in it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Made a shit ton of money. Exactly. Made a shit
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: ton of money.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So, then they decide, Dino De Laurentiis, right? Yep. Decides, okay,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you know what? Let me just remake, because we made
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Manhunter without Hannibal.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: People didn't know it existed, to be honest with you.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I think the general public didn't know it existed.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Without Anthony Hopkins, let's just do Manhunter again with Anthony Hopkins.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people thought that was a bad idea.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: And I think maybe... why they chose Brett Ratner, who
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about, is Brett Ratner is a very, like...
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I think he's a director that could be easily controlled
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: by production and other people on the crew.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Extraneous stuff outside of his work. Just talking about the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: movies he's made. He's a solid director. He will point
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and shoot. That's my thing.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: He will point and shoot. Yeah. He will point and shoot.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Let me go over. This is all of Brett Ratner's films.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Money Talks, 1997. Great one. Rush Hour. The Family Man,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: which I actually ride.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I love The Family Man.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I ride for The Family Man.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: We love The Family Man.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I ride for The Family Man. Rush Hour 2. Red Dragon.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: After the Sunset. X-Men 3, which was terrible.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Crime.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Rush Hour 3.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Extra crime.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Tower Heist. Ugh. 2014's Hercules. Is that with The Rock?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: It is. I didn't see it, though. Have you seen it?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And then his last movie after 2014, 2026's Melania.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Oh! Oh, no. You didn't know that?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: No. You didn't know that?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: No. Yes.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: He directed that?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: What? So let's talk about it. So, okay. Wow. Brett Ratner.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: This is obviously Megan chose a Brett Ratner film because
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: she really just supports the man. In 2017, numerous women
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: in Hollywood came forward with allegations of rape and sexual
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: assault against Brett Ratner. All of his business deals and
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: prospective film projects got canceled immediately. Warner Brothers distanced themselves
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: from him, and he subsequently immigrated to Israel. He no
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: longer lives in the United States.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Israel, bad look, harboring some... Isn't Alan Dershowitz....
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Is he really there?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's a few people. Yikes.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Ratner is personal friends with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and was invited to Netanyahu to attend a speech at
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the United Nations a photo released in December 2025 as
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: part of the Epstein files showed Ratner posing with Jean-Luc
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Brunel an associate of financier and child sex trafficker Jeffrey
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Epstein there is a further photo released in 2026 showing
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Ratner on a sofa with Epstein and two.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Young women Ooh, I'm sorry, everyone.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: One of them was showing Ratner cuddling with the women,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and he has met with Epstein on multiple occasions. So,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: just a little bit more I wanted to add.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, dear.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: During the Me Too movement, a former talent agent employee
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: accused Ratner of rape. Six women, including Olivia Munn, shout
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: out her, Natasha Henstridge, species, love her, accused Ratner of
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: sexual assault and harassment. Also, Gal Gadot said she would
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: never work with him.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, really? I love Gal Gadot.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: He has been accused of following an actress into a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: bathroom without invitation and pleasuring himself.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, Tim.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Elliot Page, who was in The Odyssey, we were just
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: talking about that, accused Ratner of sexual harassment and outing
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the 18-year-old Page as a lesbian... Before Paige had come
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: out at all... In front of many onlookers... Including Anna Paquin...
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Who later confirmed the story.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: There was... Russell Simmons... A model... Claimed that... She performed
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: sex acts on Russell Simmons... As Brett Ratner watched... The
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: same day of all these allegations came out... Warner Brothers announced...
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: It was completely severing ties with him... He was stepping
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: away from all... WB related activities... they would not renew
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: his $ 450 million production deal with Rat Pack.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: They had a lot of, yeah, Rat Pack had a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: lot of superhero stuff.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: That's his company. A lot of the DC stuff. He
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: has denied all allegations.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: No.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So, I think that he can point and shoot and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: his movies can be entertaining, but he's not like a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: very stylistic artsy director. So, Dino De Laurentiis was probably like,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: do exactly this and he was like okay.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I there's very little trivia about making this movie which
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: i was kind of surprised to see based on the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: amount of the cast but apparently what they did is
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: before they announced the crew or who was making it
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: they were like we bought the rights to red dragon
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: we're going to make it and they offered like philips
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and hoffman ray fine stuff like that and they were
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: like no we're good because again the handle response was
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: very negative even though it's successful yeah so ted tally
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: is the screenwriter who wrote silence of the lambs He
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: won an Oscar for it. They were able to get
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: him to come back and write Red Dragon. And he
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: was like, I would, cause he was famously was like,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing Hannibal. I don't think that was very good.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to write the script for it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: He agreed to do Red Dragon because he came back
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: as a writer. A lot of these actors felt like, okay,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: we're going to have some kind of prestige. I wondered
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: if like, cause I was surprised there's like, I'm like,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: no other director was interested in doing this? I was
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: so surprised by that. I was like, no other big
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: name would want to do this and do their own
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: spin on this? I was so surprised.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Is it what I said where maybe there were, but
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the studio wanted it to be a very specific thing
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and they felt like they couldn't control another director?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'd be so curious because now there's
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: so much money to be made. At that time, I
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: was doing this last night. This is just so nerdy
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and pathetic. I was like, who in 2002 or 2001...
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: would do this movie and be worth it. The only
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: person I thought of who would do something interesting with
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: it was Fernando Morales. And if you guys know him,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: we did the episode about it, but City of God.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Because his next movie is The Constant Gardener with Ralph Fiennes.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And I was like, his eye, just a different look,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: would be so interesting.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: That's a good guess.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Who directed Silence of the Lambs?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So it's Jonathan Gemme.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, and why he didn't want.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: To do this? So he, he was in a lot of, we,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I think we talked about a little bit on the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: sounds lens episode, but he was in talks to do Hannibal. He,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: he actually wanted to do like, he wanted to do
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: a followup with Clarice after he took it. That'd be interesting.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: But he said like, the book is bad. Can we
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: do something different? Like I will do this, but I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: will do something different.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And they were like, we're going to keep doing it,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: keep doing it. And then Jodie Foster's rules, like if
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: he's out, I'm out. And then they kept going. And
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: then eventually just the deals fell through. I think they
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: backed up a fucking Brink's truck to Anthony Hopkins and
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: was like, well, do it and get paid. Why not?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Well, I have some trivia about that, Ryan, actually.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Before you give your trivia, one more other point I
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: want to make about Brett Ratner, going back to Melania.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So after all the shit I just read came out,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: after all of that was known about Brett Ratner, they're
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: going to make Melania, and who are we going to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: get to direct it? Ah, Brett Ratner will probably do it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: And then they asked him, even knowing all this, and
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: he was like, yep.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Sure will. I've been dying to do a millennia story.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: It's just like, that goes to show everyone involved with
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that movie what they're like.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: He never got prosecuted or charged?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, that's probably why he moved to Israel. Because Israel,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think they would extradite, right?
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Am I wrong?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: No, they probably would. They probably would. They probably have
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: an extradition treaty.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Megan's going to make a point about the trivia here,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: but I want to point out, before we jump in,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So in addition to Ted Talley, this movie has Christy
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Zia or Zay and Dante Spinotti. So Dante Spinotti is
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: a cinematographer who shot Manhunter. Oh. He's back in this
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: movie and he'd done a few movies with Brett Ratner.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Christy Zia was the production designer, sets and stuff, for
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Silence of the Lambs. They brought her back. She's also
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: done Goodfellas, a lot of Scorsese movies. So they brought,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I think, pretty interesting heavy hitters from other past movies involved.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, They're aware of this stuff. There's no
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: way they're not aware of this stuff in any way.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: But you were saying, we had some trivia about him.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I was just, so the cast, as you said, Tim,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: is dynamite. I mean, we can go through the cast.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: It's a murderer's row.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Incredible.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Anthony Hopkins, I was so curious why he agreed to
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: do this, you know, so long after Silence of the Lambs.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: And according to IMDb, it said that one of the
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: reasons that he wanted to play him for a final
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: time was because he thought that Hannibal had become seen
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: too much as a likable anti-hero by audiences. So he
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: wanted to portray him as the evil person that he was.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. Also money. Also
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: to see Hannibal. Also, a lot of people were like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: this should be a trilogy.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And also Hannibal has such a bad taste in people's mouths.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: He probably wanted to like do something better as a
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: exit for Hannibal.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Can I, Can I ask you guys a question about that? So,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Hannibal is a year before this. One year. And Hannibal
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: takes place, I think it's 15 or 10 years away,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: from Silence of the Lambs. So, movie real-world life. You
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: just gave us this massive hit movie, good or bad,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: about Hannibal older. Yes. You're now giving us a prequel,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: probably 11 months or 10 months later, playing him 10
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: years before that happens, and they really don't do a.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Good job of, like, No, they dye his hair.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: They give him a ponytail. Fucking kill me.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So that's my note. I wrote ponytail Hannibal?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: No. It's just.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: First of all, any male with a ponytail, red flag.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Red flag.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: That's really in the movie, was red flag. For a
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: lot of reasons, I guess, apparently.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: There's a guy I work with that Ryan knows, well,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I used to work with, named Dan, who's just the nicest,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: most reliable, friendly, great guy. And I said to somebody,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, have you seen Dan recently? They were like, no, why?
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: He has a ponytail. And they were like, what?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Why are you.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And I just didn't know, like, what would that mean?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: If you saw somebody you hadn't seen in a while
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: and they had a ponytail, you'd be like, oh, no.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: If it was a man. Yes. Sorry.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I'd be curious.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: No, that's it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: That was all.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: I thought that was an interesting... tidbit.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Was there any other actors you wanted to, I mean,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Harvey Keitel?
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I saw when Edward Norton comes on
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: the screen, it was like, I loved Edward Norton. He
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: is such a good actor. And so I did a
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: dive after this because where did Edward Norton go?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: He, It's weird with him. It feels like he... I
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: don't know how to say it best. I feel like
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: he got very burned by a lot of his experiences
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: business-wise with movies.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: He was really mad at Marvel about Hulk.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Well, I heard, according to my internet research, he's a
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: little difficult. Yes, he famously did that. He likes to
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: rewrite scripts, is what they said. And so with Hulk,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: it didn't work out because he was rewriting the script.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: which I can imagine doesn't go over so well with
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: the screenwriter or the director.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: He had rewritten Hulk so much they almost literally had
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: to legally credit him as a screenwriter in the movie.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: They had no choice but to credit him. They didn't
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: do it, but still.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I will say, because I'm going to keep going back
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to Manhunter, Edward Norton is a better actor than William Peterson.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Agreed.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I think William Peterson gives a better performance as Will
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Graham than Edward Norton. And I think part of that
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: is the Brett Ratner thing of the vanilla-ness of... of
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: this movie, maybe a director would have gotten more out
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of it. Or maybe there's not really much to do.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: But I feel like Harvey Keitel is just there. And
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like Will Graham, for the most part, Edward
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Norton's character, is just kind of there. He's just like
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: a good guy. How would you explain who he is?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: He's just like a nice man who loves his family?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: No, he's got a gift. He has a gift. He
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: can visualize the killer's mind. Tim's biting his lips.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: They tell you that, but there's no... There's no struggle
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: within him that I see.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: No, he has that scene. Yeah, he has that scene
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: where he pictures the dolls and the mirrors and the eyes.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And it does bother him.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Because he can profile. He can create the story of
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: what the person's doing.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: He's a genius forensic profiler, criminal profiler.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I agree that the performance, I think, again, like you're saying,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I think someone else directing this who may be like
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Demme when you watch Silence of the Lambs you're
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: like this person's interested in Clarice in terms of like
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: what not only is like we're solving a murder it's
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: this whole big story that way it's how does this
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: person navigate this world also what is her talents that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: let her surface and this one's could have been just
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: as interesting we're like okay well now you're seeing that
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: from a man who is incredibly accomplished.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not like, because Clarice isn't accomplished at all.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a novice at the time. Right. And then
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the idea, too, is that this person's incredibly accomplished, but
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: kind of fascinating. The movie does an okay job with this, but, like,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: the person he was working with who was helping him
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: figure this out is the guy he was looking for,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and he did not see that coming. And then the
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: whole idea is that's a flaw that should be following
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: him the entire movie. Like, how the fuck did I
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: not see what was right in front of my face?
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Because he's supposed to be a genius.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Do I go too deep too quick? and I
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: don't see what's right in front of my face. And
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: it's like, that could have been interesting. The movie doesn't
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: really go into that a ton, but I think that's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: an interesting idea and kind of a cool thing that
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: could have been done in a more interesting way. I
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: guess that's the way to put it.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, should we just get into... Sure.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Do you want to say anything else about the cast?
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, Philip Seymour Hoffman deserves a mention.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: He's great.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I think we'll come across people and talk about them.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Philip Seymour Hoffman, because we're going to do By the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: time this comes out, there will be blood will have
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: already come out as a pod. We're talking about Daniel
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Day-Lewis being like the greatest actor of all time. Philip
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Seymour Hoffman has got to be up there.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I think now people kind of consider him in a
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: way more.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: And like more potent.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: And I read something for this that Anthony Hopkins and
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Philip Seymour Hoffman had no scenes together, but that Anthony
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Hopkins came to the set one day just to watch
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Philip Seymour Hoffman work.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: And Ryan sent me a picture of Philip Seymour Hoffman's face. Oh, yes.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I think he sent it to both of us.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so good. His facial expressions. Me and
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Eric and Ryan have a group text where the photo
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is Philip Seymour Hoffman's facial expression. It's unbelievable.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: We'll get to a scene later. It's amazing because it's
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: not flashy that he's doing so well, especially because in
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: this movie you're kind of like, why is he in
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: this movie? yeah he's so good.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: At just money yeah why is he in this movie
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: he has a smaller role.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: It's a big profile movie big huge movie huge actors
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: again you're playing someone you could argue is worse than
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the killer no just kidding.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Maybe not maybe not I don't think so but maybe
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: and Emily Watson what happened to Emily Watson she was
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: so good too I.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Mean it's tough with that like Emily Watson's so good
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: she got big at that point in time I just
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: think a lot of, I think especially a lot of
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: British actors, they just like will either do Hollywood or
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: be like, I'm in this machinery and if things work out,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I'm fine. If not, I can work in the UK,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: do stage, like stuff like that.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Cause right. Cause I'm not trying to, she's amazing, but
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: like the evil superficial Hollywood machine, like what are they
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: going to do with her?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And she shouldn't care about it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: She's a woman that's now going to be older. And
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: when we were talking about on the drive here, we're
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: talking about Diane Lane and how like she, she just
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: fell off a cliff because she got old. And that's
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: what happens in, In Hollywood, what?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Her and Philip Seymour Hoffman the same year in Punch
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Drunk Love.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. I don't even remember her being in that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: She's Adam Sandler's eye of his affection.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Emily Watson's not for Hollywood women's standards. Oh, Tim.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: She's not like a knockout.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Gotcha. Gotcha.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: And she's getting older. Hollywood doesn't care about a talented
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: female actress that's not super sexy hot and is getting older.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: They're throwing her in the garbage bin every time.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, who is the other British actress who's phenomenal
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: and all this stuff? She's in Shape of Water. Sally... Oh, yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Sally McNally.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Sally McNally, yeah. That's her name.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I know who you're talking about, though.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: But she's great. But again, especially with women, Hollywood's brutal
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: with that. She's over 30. They don't care. It's awful.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I like that so much.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Sally McNally presents this episode.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I thought that you were being serious.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: No. Oh, Struthers. Struthers.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Sally Struthers?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Not Sally Struthers.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: So, okay. It is Baltimore. Shout out Baltimore, where I
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: used to live. 1980. And it is.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: Eric's performing.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Eric is performing at the symphony... And Hannibal Lecter is
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: in the crowd.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Composer shout out, by the way.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Lalo Schifrin is the conductor.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: He's the composer for the music for Rush Hour. Also,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: the Mission Impossible theme was created by him.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Ryan, how great of a shout out out there.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Great trivia.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Lecter's in the crowd and he grimaces because he noticed,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is it a flautist? Is that what you call it?
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I believe that's true.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: That's the name? The flautist. A fluter.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Fluter.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Pippa was a flautist.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: She was a flautist. Yes. Yeah, um.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Made a little boo-boo, right?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a little... He messed up. He's a little off,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and Hannibal's kind of like, uh... Now we're at a
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: dinner party that.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Wait, I would... My note is, I would not want
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: to capture Hannibal Lecter's attention.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: No.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: No.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: For any reason.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: As a woman.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: The guy was beating himself up enough, I was like, Hannibal, dude,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: let this guy go. Like, he was.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Does Hannibal kill women? Has he killed women?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, the nurse, he ate her face.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, right.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: He ate her face. No, it's a crazy thing to say.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: It's actually true. Yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: They don't even show you the picture, they show the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: back of the picture, and you're just like, oh.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, also, we forgot to mention Hannibal Rising. Hannibal Rising was...
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It's actually really good.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Even worse.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: A prequel to Red Dragon.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: It's awful. It's bad.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: As much as I love that kind of stuff, it's bad.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: And Hannibal's having a... He is Hannibal at this time.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: He's not a criminal. He's a very... renowned psychologist psychiatrist
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: psychiatrist and intellectual um and he's at this like he's
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: having like a dinner party with all these rich you
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: know hoity-toity white people and um they're one of the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: women says what is this fine looking amuse-bouche and he
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: says if I told you you won't even try it
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and you.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think he put a lot of emphasis on
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: that line I think he did okay nice thought I
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: thought he undersold it.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And basically it's indicated you're eating the flautist. Yes.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Because then they make mention of how the person was missing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah. They go like, oh, yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: That guy was actually.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: One of the guys was like, I'm kind of glad
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: he's missing.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: That was actually kind of funny. I'm not going to lie.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: That was kind of funny to put that in there.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: So after this party wraps up, Will Graham is visiting
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: him at night. Because they're working on this case together.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Because Hannibal is working with the FBI because he's such
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: a great psychiatrist and profiler of criminals. So Will is saying,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I'm figuring this out more. This serial killer we're going after.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: And we thought he was collecting body parts. But Will says,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I realize he's not collecting the body parts. What is
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he doing?
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: He's eating them.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: He's eating the body parts.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And because of this movie, I have always thought of
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: this term for the rest of my life, the term oysters. Oh, yes.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And I think of it with myself. It's basically sort
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: of like your lower back love handle. So I'm not,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, I'm not genetically naturally an Adonis.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So whenever I feel the fat in my lower back
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: love handle, I think, oh, those are my oysters because
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of this movie. So Will's like, Molly, his wife, was
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: showing my son the oysters of a chicken. And it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: the fatty back section. And then I realized that, oh,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: he's eating like the oysters of a person. And then Lecter,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: do you remember what he asked at this point? Have
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: you informed the Bureau of your theory? And well, Will
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: very stupidly goes, no, I haven't told him. And then
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Will also, I thought this was so strange. Will's like,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: how come you didn't figure this out? He says, that's
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: a Lecter.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Does he say that?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Will's brain is like fighting right now with...
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: He kind of thinks it's Lecter, but he doesn't realize
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: he thinks it's Lecter. But he's realizing it doesn't make
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: sense that Lecter hasn't figured this out. Because he's like,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you're such a genius profiler of criminals. How did you
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: not figure out he was eating the parts? And then
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Lecter was like, oh, he makes a joke.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: They both have mental blocks. You don't want to believe
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: the person you're working with is doing it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Lecter says, he basically says, will you excuse me, Will?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back. And Will's kind of just like
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: milling about his office.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: It's a lovely office.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: It's a nice little area.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Beautiful study.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Beautiful study. Lots of books.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And he finds a book in the library called La
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Russe Gastronomique. It's a cooking book. Oui.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Oui.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Tribune. And he sees like there's like a page that's noted.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Hannibal, come on, man.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Come on, man. He opens it and there's a section
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: on the oysters. Oof. So Will has a realization.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: It says shortbreads.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Sweetbreads, not shortbreads. It's not a dessert. Sweetbreads is actually,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: what is the definition of sweetbreads?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: It's a meat.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it says shortbreads.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not connected to the internet. Can you Google it? Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Because it is actually a meat. You got it? I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: think it's like Organ meat, maybe?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Eh.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Or something like that.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: It's a culinary type of offal made from the thymus gland,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: throat sweetbread, or pancreas.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Harder stomach sweetbread of young animals, most commonly calves or lambs. Oh.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Can you hear them screaming, guys?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Wow. So then Will sees this and realizes, oh my god, Hannibal...
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Is this guy? Is the killer.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: He should have said it out loud.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: That would be great. That would be great. And he
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: turns around to like, I don't know what. And then
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: what happens, Meg?
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: He gets stabbed. Hannibal stabs him. And I gasped out loud.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: I had forgotten this whole opening.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I really did. I remembered other parts
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: of the movies, completely blacked this part out.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So one of the main... The best part about this movie, really,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: is the opening. This is an incredible opening.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, this is a great opening.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And Manhunter does not have this opening.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: So when Manhunter starts, Lecter's in prison.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So I think that's a missed fight.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Because there's no.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: This was such a good opening.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: And he, yeah, he gets stabbed. And, oh, you just
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: know that it's a bad one. It's a really bad one.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: First of all, when Lecter, I rewound this because I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: was like, did I mishear this? And I rewound it.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And when Lecter stabs him, he hisses. He goes like,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: as he's doing it. And then I wrote the, because
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: this is so, so fucked. So Lecter, because Lecter, you know,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Lecter is a guy like, that's the thing about, you
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: were talking about Anthony Hopkins saying people think Lecter's an antihero,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: but he's not. Lecter has like a code. In a way. Yeah. Like,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: he won't kill Barney in prison. He would never harm Barney.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: You know Lecter truly respects Will.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't really want to kill Will. But he knows, like,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I'm fucked. I have to kill Will. So he thinks he's, like,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: being kind. And he says, this is just, like, imagine
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: how psycho you have to be to say this is
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: somebody you're stabbing. He goes, don't move. You're in shock now.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want you to feel any pain. In a moment,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: you'll begin to feel lightheaded, then drowsy. Don't resist. It's
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: so gentle, like slipping into a warm bath. I regret
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: it came to this will, but every game must have
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: its ending. It's like slipping into a warm bath, describing
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: your death as you're being stabbed, and then he says,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: as well as I collapse into the floor, you're a
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: remarkable boy. I do admire your courage. I think I'll
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: eat your heart.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: That was, yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: That's an awesome line.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: That's, that's, my note is, what an opening.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: What an opening.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: What an opening.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: What an opening. And then what happens next, Ryan?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Will is able to stab Lecter with three arrows.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Lecter, because he has like all these weird,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: it's almost like Bruce Wayne's.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, very good point.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne will have like an African mask and like,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: you know, from traveling the world.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And Lecter has this quiver of arrows from God knows what.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: And Will grabs the, has grabbed the arrow secretly and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: then stabs Lecter back. And then Lecter's kind of in
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: shock that he just got stabbed and then Will shoots him.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: And then the movie opens. The movie opens. It says, uh,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: dragon of bread. That's, that's an A plus.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: That's an A plus. That's probably the best part of
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: the movie. I think you said that.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I did. And I agree. Um, So, yeah, Manhunter does
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: not have that. So now the movie is starting. It's
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: in the future. I think it says sometime later. I
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: think it literally says that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: We should put out opening credits, our news footage, news papers,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: of just how everything transpired after this.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: One thing that I think this movie does not capture accurately,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and I know it was the 80s. It's a different time. But, like, the.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Dollar Hyde, who we'll go into, and Lecter, there would
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: just be... This would be the biggest crime story of
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: all time.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Like, the FBI was using a psychiatrist to help them
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: solve a serial killer. Yeah. And it turns out that
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: psychiatrist they chose was the serial killer. Yeah. This would
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: be the most... There would be a thousand books written
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: on this.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Yes. The movie... I thought the opening credits did a
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: great job of that. Like, yes, this would be gigantic news.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Tons of newspaper articles.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: And then we'll go into Dollar Hyde later, but Dollar
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Hyde is... going to affluent white suburbs and killing an
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: entire white family in their home. Every cop in the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: world would be looking for this guy. We'll get into
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: it later. Anyways, so Will is now in, it looks
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: like Florida.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Marathon, Florida.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Marathon, Florida. He's working on a boat with his son.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: He went to the psych hospital.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: He did go to the psych hospital. And there's a
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: great line in Mindhunter. where his son says to him,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: they're grocery shopping, and he says, like, Jimmy in class
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: said that you were in the nuthouse. And then Will says, well,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: do you remember when that man hurt me? And his
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: son's like, yeah. He says, well, my body healed, but
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: my mind didn't. And I was like, that's a great
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: way to describe that to a kid. And yeah, so classic,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: this is like a movie trope that's happened 90 billion times.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: It's the retired expert and the guy from his old
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: team is coming back and saying, we just need you
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: one more time. Nothing bad will happen this time.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: That's a big ask, too.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: For work.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: For work to have you go visit the person that tried.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: To kill you. And this is Harvey Keitel playing this role.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: What's the character's name?
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Jack Crawford.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Jack Crawford. So Jack Crawford was played Harvey Keitel in
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: this movie. Dennis Farina and Manhunter, and Scott Glenn in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Silence of the Lambs. So Scott Glenn is Jodie Foster's
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: boss in Silence of the Lambs. And you had texted,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: who's the best? Jack Crawford. And I said, I'm a
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Scott Glenn guy. Same. In general, I love Scott Glenn. Yeah.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: He's great in that movie. Backdraft, Training Day.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: He's a great, great character actor. And I would say
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Dennis Farina would be too, just because Harvey Keitel, very
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: talented actor. I like Harvey Keitel. Jack is just there
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: reading lines.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Like they're holding up on a cue card. They really are.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: There's nothing to him at all.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: It's the best line of this entire movie later that
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: made me laugh so hard. I loved it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Um, and he's in Jack. Jack is in this movie
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: in particular is a complete cancer. Like anybody that comes
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: in his orbit is just fucked.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Done. Done.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And Will's like, no, I can't do that. And he says, um,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: If you join this case, we will catch this guy
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: faster than if you don't. So if you don't join
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: this case, you are possibly costing an entire family their lives.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you, man.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, that's a pretty big...
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, Jack's... Big ask.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Technically, Jack is.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: He is right.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Jack is right?
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: He is right, but still.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: That's a big, big, big ask. And so Will's trying
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to convince his wife, and as a married man, I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: know that that would not go very well.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: No, man. Can I tell you guys something?
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: So I watched this with my husband, Kevin, who I
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: think you know. And when he leaves, the scene where
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: he's like getting in the taxi, he takes a very
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: small bag. I don't I didn't notice it Kevin noticed
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: it he said wow that's that's a really small bag
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: for a couple days so then for the rest of
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: the movie every outfit that Edward Norton is wearing. Kevin's like, oh,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: that was in his bag. He packed a suit jacket. Oh,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: he had a button-down shirt. Oh, wow, he had a vest.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: So the story was so compelling that he had.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: So that was very distracting to me because he does
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: have a lot of outfit changes and he only carries
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: a very small duffel to the taxi.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's buying stuff while he's there.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is like... So he decides, I'm going
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to join the case.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: And this serial killer, who we'll later find out about,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: who's called the Tooth Fairy, goes into a home and
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: murders an entire family. So Jack goes and visits the home,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, again, this guy is killing white
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: families of a married white couple with, like, a son
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: and a daughter or something in an affluent white suburb,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: and there's no reporters staked out outside the house when
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Will goes in. It's just, like, a quiet neighborhood, like, Well.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: And also he went in at night in the dark.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: That really bothered me. Why did he go in the
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: first time?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Because he wanted to be in the killer's shoes.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Okay. But like in the middle of the night in
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: the dark, he doesn't even turn on a light. I mean,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: it's very tense and it's very scary.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I feel you.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: But you know what I mean?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: So the MO, modus operandi, is the killer goes in,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: slits the husband's throat in his sleep, disables the wife,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: so like shoots her, injures her, but doesn't kill her,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: shoots the kids in their sleep, drags their bodies down
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the hall, and there's like blood trails of where he's
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: dragging these dead children. Then he breaks the mirror in
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the house and puts shards of glass in their eyes.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: So Will says he wants there to be an audience.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And then he finds that there's talcum powder, which is
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: inside of a latex glove. Oh, you had to take
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: the gloves off because you had to touch her. So
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: everything that he's realizing, like he's, everything is focused on
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the mom. Um, and he, the, the, there's a very
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: specific bite pattern.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: That's why they call him the tooth fairy. Cause he's biting.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Which I get.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: You're big into that. That's a big, that's a big,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: like a chat GPT narrative.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Then just a really good famous actor that's in a
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: movie for five seconds. The FBI office, Bill Duke. He's
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: in this movie for literally five seconds. Who is that?
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Mary Louise Parker is Will's wife and she's barely in
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the movie too.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: That's true. Well, yeah.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: It's great. Every part is overcast. It's great to see.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: But it's also just kind of like.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Bill Duke is an older black dude with a shaved head.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: He was in the original Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Okay. He was a director himself.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, did he?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Like, what's the one with Lawrence Fishburne and Jeff Goldblum?
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Directed Sister Act 2.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Did he?
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. And they're going over, like, you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: what they need to do. And somebody asks, why won't
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: he just stop? And then Will says, it makes him
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: feel like God. Would you give that up? That's kind
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: of a red flag comment by Will, in my opinion.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Kind of know-it-all-y.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: He also, which is my least favorite thing about the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Tooth Fairy, he always kills the family pet. Yes. And
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: he kills a cat and a dog.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: That was a good one. I didn't understand that. The dog,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, okay, because the dog will
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: freak out.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll bark.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And you're trying to do this thing. But the cat,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, why?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: The cat's just evil. Like, why kill a cat? Because
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the cat's not going to... First of all, the cat
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: would be like, leave you alone. Be like, welcome. Sure. Yeah, like,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: come on in. What's the cat going to do?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe dragons are afraid of cats.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: We don't know. So I think, if I remember correctly,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: they're leaving the office and they run into Philip Seymour Hoffman.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: So how would you describe, Meg, how would you describe
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Philip Seymour Hoffman's character? Other than a class act.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Slimy. Slimy is the first word that comes to mind. Sleazy.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: His shirt's untucked. He's overweight. He just looks greasy. Love it. Right?
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: He is a newspaper reporter.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: That's so funny.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He will do anything for a story.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: He's a reporter.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: He's a reporter.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: For this tabloid. Yes. The tabloid.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: And it becomes evident that he has done a story
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: on Will and his mental breakdown after the whole Hannibal
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Lecter thing. And, yeah, he's just a slime ball.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: His claim to fame is that he broke into the
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: hospital where Will was and took photos of him.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And Will was in the hospital bed.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: That was his big time.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Very, very bad performance in Manhunter. The guy, the villain
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: from Avatar?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Stephen Lang.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Stephen Lang is terrible in Manhunter.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: That's the news reporter?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: He basically... It's like Bill Hader doing an impression of
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: this guy. That's how he plays it. He's like a gum-chewing,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: he has a thick New York accent. He's like, bippin'
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and boppin'. It's just terrible. But anyways, he's trying to
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: get a story. So Jack, who's completely emotionless this entire movie,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Harvey Keitel says, Hey, we need somebody to talk to Lecter.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: You should do it. And Will's like, No. Remember Lecter
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: tried to kill me? He says, yeah, but Lecter will
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: only talk to you. Which makes sense. Lecter is a
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: dick like that.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: And Anthony Heald, is that his name?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: His back is Dr. Chilton.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: And he actually does look younger somehow.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: That one did work.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: That one I was like, okay.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his beautiful hair. Yeah.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: They made his hair longer.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: That one did work.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that worked.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I thought this was a pretty stupid line. So Dr.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Chilton says... You caught Lecter. What was your trick? And
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Will says, I let him kill me.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I feel like a trailer line.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. This is my favorite exchange between them and
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the movie.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: When he first goes down to his cell.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: And Lecter's trying to figure out, like, are you smarter
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: than me? How did you catch me? Yes. So I
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: wrote down this exchange. Well, wait.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Before that, the very first thing that Hannibal says to
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Will is he comments on his smell and which is
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: the exact same thing he did with Jodie Foster, I think,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: in Silence of the Lambs.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's another thing I don't really like about
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Hannibal Lecter, which we talked about in Silence of the Lambs,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: how this portrayal of the serial killer is the evil genius,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: like the Dr. Moriarty, when in reality most serial killers
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: are like alcoholic losers who are borderline mentally handicapped. So
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: why does he have a super sense of smell? Like, what?
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he appreciated cuisine. taste and smell. He
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: was into food.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: He was foodie. I mean, as bad as the sounds.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: He's a foodie because he ate people. You call him
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: a foodie?
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: He's a foodie. Well, I think he would have, I
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: picture Hannibal having a refined palate.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he goes to nice restaurants.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: And this, as grim as this sounds, these, you know,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the serial killers, like they reference in Silence of the Lambs,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: when people are hunters, like they are learning to pick
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: up on things so they can get someone's trust and
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: betray them and capture them. Like, I think they just
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: think of things in a different way, as bad as
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: that sounds. Like they just learn to, what's it, covet?
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: That's the word in Silence of the Lambs, right?
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I have a note here. This is just like Good
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Will Hunting, a therapist and his beloved patient, Will.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's actually no difference.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Matt Damon.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: I felt like I was watching.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Matt Damon would be a very good Will Graham.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: He would be a good Will Graham.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, actually, Edward Norton was born in Boston.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Was he?
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. That's true.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: It's a very Good Will Hunting vibe.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Hannibal, fucking tell me now.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Gone to sea about a girl.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Lecter says, no, that's what Lecter would say at the
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: end of the movie.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Imagine this is a letter written.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Lecter says, why would I help you, Will? And Will says,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I can get you research materials. And then Will says,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: being a genius that Will is, he says, I thought
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: also you might enjoy the challenge. You can try to
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: figure out if you're smarter than this guy, meaning the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Tooth Fairy. And Lecter says, if you caught me, do
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: you think you're smarter than I am? And Will says, no,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I know I'm not smarter than you. And Lecter said, well,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: if that's the case, then how did you catch me?
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: You had certain disadvantages. And Lecter says, what disadvantages do
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: you mean? And Will says, you're insane.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: That was a good moment.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Great moment. And I love how Will, what I love
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: about Will, no bullshit. He hates Lecter, has no respect
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: for Lecter, doesn't play the games, where Clarice is like, oh, like, oh.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: And everything Hannibal says, Clarice is kind of like eating
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: with a spoon. And Will is literally basically saying, like,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: all right, fuck this, and then walking away several times.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: And he says, you're very ten, Will. Your hands are rough.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: And then Will just is like, oh, God. And he says,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: either do it or don't. And then Lecter says, Let
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: me keep some of the photos of the crime scene
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: and I will consider it. And Will says, no. Why?
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Why do you need this?
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: But I love how Will just goes, no. Like, cause
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Clarice would be like, oh, okay. Like, let me ask Jack, maybe.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: And Will just goes, no. Uh, and then he says,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: do you dream much, Will? And Will says, goodbye. He
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: just walks away. He goes, goodbye. Uh, I, I, cause
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: that's how he should be treated. Cause like, fuck him. Right.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Um, and, Wait, is this when he says, I have
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: a quote, but I don't want to say it yet
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: if it's not... the part so this.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Is Will starts to walk away and then and then
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Hannibal says like no stop he's basically like I will
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: look at it yeah so is that what you're referring to.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: And he says you need to see them living the
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: way they caught his eye yes.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Yes and he's The Tooth Fairy may be disfigured. Also,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: he loves yards. And is he nude in the dark?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Like, what?
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: He's talking about blood is black at night and it
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: may be perfect to view when you're nude. And you're like,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: what are you talking about?
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Actually, wait.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: You do a good handful, Hector.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. So the Tooth Fairy is in these
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: people's fucking yard naked. He's standing in the back. Can
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: you imagine? Like, never mind he's a serial killer. And
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: you know what? That's a great thing about Shadow Kevin
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: because Kevin loves Ari Aster. A great thing that Ari
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Aster does that no other director does is use male
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: nudity for horror purposes. Because which is scarier to you, Megan,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: if you come down in the kitchen and there's a
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: person that broke in holding a knife or a person
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that broke in holding a knife naked? Which is worse
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: to you?
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: They're both really bad. Maybe the naked person.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Nude is way worse. So if you saw a guy
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: just standing in the backyard without a knife.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Plus, I mean, you think about.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: The true situation. No, actually, I think the clothed knife-wielding person,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: because the naked knife-wielding person is, like, so crazy. I
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: might have a chance. Like, they could be on drugs.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: What if he's like, hear me out?
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: I would say there's actually less of a chance you
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: could get to them if they're the naked person. They've committed.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: We'll see this in the movie later. Someone realizes, I'm
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: not going.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: To make it out of this. I think they're crazy
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: or on drugs. I might be able to get away. Clothed,
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: it's like a Brian Koberger situation. You're in trouble.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: That's the sorority.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Idaho.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy who pulled
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: off the perfect crime and immediately got caught.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Loser.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Those are the, like, the real life Hannibal Lecter is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: that guy who thinks he's so smart and immediately gets caught. So, okay. So, basically,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Lecter agrees to work on the case. And I don't
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: remember if there's any other further discussion. But the next
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: note I have is when Will is watching the video
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: of the Leeds family.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, but we should also just say, like, shout out Barney.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Barney's right there.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: Barney's there.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: He's in all four movies.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Is he really?
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: He doesn't play Barney in Manhunter, but he's in Manhunter. Yeah.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: And what's the fourth one that he's in?
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: He's in Sansa Lam's Red Dragon and Hannibal. Yeah.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Who's he in Hannibal?
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Barney.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Clarice finds the Hannibal merch on eBay, and she's like,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: who the fuck would get this? And it's only him.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I need to make money on it.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: I love that they cast Barney.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: The great Frankie Faison.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: So great.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and Lecter would... He hates all the guards.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: He hates Chilton. He wants to kill all of them.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: He hates Chilton.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: But Barney always treats Lecter with respect and Lecter would
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: never harm Barney because Lecter has a very weird....
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Moral compass.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very incorrect moral compass, but he has some sort
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of moral compass. So he.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Will watches the Leeds video, and then he goes to Birmingham, Alabama.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Because the two murders are in Birmingham and where? Atlanta? Birmingham, Alabama,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: and then there's another one somewhere else.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Leeds family is Birmingham, and I think, was it the Jacobis?
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Which one? Is Leeds the one we actually see in
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: the beginning? Or are we, like, that's the crime scene?
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: Jacobi's the second one.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Jacobi's the second one, okay.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: So he goes to Birmingham, and he somehow figures out
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: that the Tooth Fairy was watching them from a tree.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: No, wait, that's Jacobi.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: That's the Jacobis? Yeah. Okay, so that's Birmingham.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Leeds is first. Leeds is Baltimore. So the Leeds, I believe,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: chronologically in the movie, is shown first, but happens second.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. It would make sense.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah, I gotcha. So he
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: goes to Birmingham, he goes in their yard, he climbs
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: a tree, and he's like, Tooth Fairy was in this tree,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: and then he sees this kanji symbol.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: That's, like, carved in the tree.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Kevin also had a lot of feedback about that.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: He was like, that's a pretty lucky find.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: He's in the woods.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Also, beautiful carving.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the carving was, like, too good.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Dad, there's a nude man with, like, a lot of
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: tattoos in the tree up there hunched over.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: That would be very scary.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I just need to get the carving right.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Well, he finds a soda can lid thingy, right?
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: And then he looks... He decides to climb the tree?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: And then he finds the dragon carving in the tree.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Then we are introduced to my favorite character in the movie, Dee.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Like many movies with this actor, this movie goes up
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: about 75 points because this person shows up.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: So, he is played by?
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Ralph Fiennes.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Ralph Fiennes plays the Tooth Fairy, who is named Frances Dollarhyde.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: And I wrote... So, like, for me, you know some people...
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's funny, but if somebody slips and falls,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people burst out laughing. Some people I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: know love puking. If you see a person puke, you
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: burst out laughing. My thing is seeing someone act completely
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: unhinged and irrational is my slipping and falling. I wrote,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Dollar Hyde, I love him so much. Yikes! He makes
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: me laugh this entire movie. Every scene is unintentional comedy
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: with Dollar Hyde. And the reason for this is just
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: the start. The start to Dollar Hyde. The intro is
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: he is aggressively bench pressing while having a flashback of
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: his grandmother threatening to cut his penis off.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Stretch it out.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So his grandmother, basically the flashback is he peed his pants.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: Well, wait, you need to set the scene because they start,
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: they flash to Dollar Hyde for the very first time.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: And you see that it was a former mental hospital, right?
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: There's a little plaque.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Or home of someone. Maybe. Home.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: There's a plaque.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: It's a gothic castle? Yeah, it's a gothic castle.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's a mental hospital.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: And then they go down the driveway and you see
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: this very decrepit looking old house.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And then you go in the house and you can
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: hear the voice.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: And then they're going up the stairs.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: You see like discarded wheelchairs and other like assistive devices.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: And you hear this voice and you're going up the
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: stairs and the home is so run down. And it
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: is so scary and creepy in this moment and tense.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's very well done. And then, Tim, continue.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: They introduce Ralph Fiennes.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: So he is he's having a flashback of his grandmother.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: He peed his pants and his grandmother is threatening to
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: cut his penis off. And he is bench pressing, thinking
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: of this. And as he's actually making the lift, you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: like people would grunt, like, ugh, you know, when you're
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: trying to bench press. He's going, no, Grandma. No, Grandma.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Imagining this. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. This is all
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: kinds of red flags.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Wait, doesn't he have the nylons on his head, too?
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: He does. He does.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: That's scary.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: He did say so. That's pretty scary. I thought this
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: was insane.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I never knew this. I texted you guys about this.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: The voice of the grandmother is Ellen Bernstein.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: I can't believe that.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: And the voice of young Frances Dollarhide is, do you
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: know Alex D. Lins? No. He was in Home Alone 3.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: He was like a kid actor.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: He's the voice of young Dollarhide.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I wrote, what movie is this in? That's what I've seen.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: That's what I wrote. The music in here is so
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: gothic and so weird. I was like, what planet are
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: we on?
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: It is so, so, so, so, so creepy.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Ray Fiennes. I'm going to say, Ray Fiennes is 2002,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: and this is insane. A movie called Spider, where he
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: pretty much plays Francis Dollar Hyde. A movie called The
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Good Thief I've Not Seen, Red Dragon, and Made in Manhattan.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: No. Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: He's the love interest of Jennifer Lopez. Yeah, in the
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: same year.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: If only she knew.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: So, again, I always think of this movie with the
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: term oysters. Oysters. When I was potty training Cece, I
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: thought of this movie. Because this movie is what not
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: to do when potty training.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: The shame. Yeah. Shaming your child for having an accident.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: And we should also say that his teeth are fake.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: They're dentures. Yes. The whole thing. And he has different teeth.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He has different teeth. And so there's a thing.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: It's kind of been debunked. But there's a thing called
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: the serial killer triarchy. And it's like if you... had
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: these three things. It's like guaranteed you're going to be
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: a serial killer or something like that.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Sociopathy.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Sociopathy. But it was peeing your pants. Bedwetting. Bedwetting when
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: you're too old to really do it.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Starting fires or arson. And then was Harming Animals?
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, Harming Animals.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I've always heard that.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I've always heard that.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: So Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, he was a
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: big dollar hide. His mother would shame him. So Gary Ridgway,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: who killed like 50 prostitutes, He would pee his pants
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: when he was too old and his mother would take him.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: She would parade him around the house going like, Gary
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: peed his pants. Gary's a little baby. And then she
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: would take Gary into the bathtub, strip him naked and
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: scrub his penis aggressively. And you know what? He turned
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: out to be a serial killer. No way. Who would
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: have ever thought?
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: Is there like a weird sexual abuse innuendo with the
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: grandmother too?
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think so.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think so. I think so.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: And I thought you were going to ask me at
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: the beginning, but you didn't. Like, why did I pick
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: this movie?
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. i should well i i just thought there
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: was a given it was like cause of silence.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Well yes but i love psychological thrillers and i love
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: movies that are like smart scary and not gratuitous violence
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: and gore and i think this like silence of the
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: lambs as crazy as this may sound it's not that
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: gory or violence silence of the.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Lambs is way more gory than this.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Like this one is still incredibly scary but you don't
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: even see the violence.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: It's the intention.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. I think Silence of the Lambs is definitely worse.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: When Lecter escapes from prison, that whole scene is horrifying. Yes, yes.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: And this movie doesn't really have that.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't actually go that far.
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: When they were going up the stairs in this movie
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: before you see Ralph Fiennes for the first time, I
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: was so scared and tense.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was relieved.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Felt at home? I felt at home.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: I felt at home. It's like looking in a mirror.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Which he actually does.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: And also, he plays Voldemort.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: He does.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: So he's a good bad guy.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: He also plays Eamon Goath, my favorite sociopath of all time.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: So if I had my Mount Rushmore of movie villains,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: it would be Heath Ledger's The Joker, Bill the Butcher,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Daniel Day-Lewis. I think Eamon Goath, Ralph Fiennes would be
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: on there. Eamon Goath is a fucking monster.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: What is that from?
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Schindler's List.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: The famous line, the Nazis hung him.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was so bad, the Nazis put him to death.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Ray Fiennes is the definition of, even to this day,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: any movie, when he shows up, the movie just goes up.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: He's such a good actor.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: It's amazing because, like you said, he played Voldemort and
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: did an incredible job with that. He appears in 28
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: years later, and when he shows up, I'm kind of like, well,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: this is going to go bad for them if he's here.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And he's actually this wonderfully kind, loving person. You kind
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: of just don't believe it the whole movie.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: But he's always, he's never going to be bad at anything.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: So he, Dollar Hyde, the Tooth Fairy, checks his diary. Ryan,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: how would you describe his diary?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: This is a lot. This diary is the size of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: a cinder block. It's huge. And he's furiously, he can
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: buy glue, glue sticking an article that's an article that's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: a photo of Will on the crime scene.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: So people are snooping on it. And then we, I think,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: is it the first page is Behold the Great Red Dragon?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Behold a Great Red Dragon is the first page?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: It's a text book.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: And it's the picture of the painting.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Yes. The painting of the Red Dragon, which is, we'll
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: get into it later, but it's a famous painting that
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: exists in real life.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Not anymore. Not anymore. Let's go get into it.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: And wait, sorry, I have a note that it was
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: a nursing home.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: It was a nursing home.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a psych hospital.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought, but I didn't want to be like, no,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: it's a nursing home. So Will is walking around the...
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: What is he doing now?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Will goes back to the hospital and he's walking in
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: that room and you see Lecter approach him. Yes. And
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: then you realize Lecter is on some kind of leash.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I wrote, this setup is insane and I
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know what I was referring to. Lecter has an
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: exercise room that's like a gymnasium.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: Like a track.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: But he has this leash on him and he's allowed
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: to walk in this circle.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: And there's like a big painted on the ground like
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: yellow circle and it says do not step beyond this point.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Like Lecter is basically like I don't even know how
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: to describe it. Just he's so dangerous.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: So here was my thing. I know this is probably
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: going way back. Wait did we do Bruce crawling out
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: of the hole yet?
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Bruce crawling out of the hole? At the end. Oh,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: we're talking about... Ryan's making fun of himself because he
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: kept asking that during the Dark Knight Rises.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Too annihilated.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Here's my theory of this movie.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: That's okay.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Getting to this point. So this is 45 minutes into
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: the movie. We see Lecter before when he first visits
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: him at the hospital 30 minutes in. I think... I
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: know you guys love that scene. Don't have the opening
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: scene with Will and Lecter. Don't have it. You just
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: have the scene. Open the movie with Crawford... Maybe someone
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: a little bit more awake playing Crawford. Yeah. Talking to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Will about doing the crime scene. Have the opening credits
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: where they tell you all this shit went bad. All
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: this shit went nowhere. You as a viewer have no
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: clue what truly happened in terms of details.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: You're talking about Manhunter, right?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying with this movie. Just picture this movie
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: this way. Oh, okay.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: He's rewriting the script.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: What you're describing is Manhunter.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Well, Manhunter doesn't... care about lector he is a function
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: of their story yes he is not like a character
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: yes we as audiences are dying to see anthony hopkins
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: play yes so i think what they should do in
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: my opinion was like this was like i feel like
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: we see lector after the crime too quickly and it
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to build up because the genius of the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: build-up in silence of lambs was like why is he
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: so calm why is he so in control yeah and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: you're not used to it in this movie he's a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: little too evil and i get why i thought If
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: you didn't see the first attack, you only saw Lecter,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: you didn't have the first scene where he meets him
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: in the cell, then this is the first time Will
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: is allowed to go see him. And Crawford treats this like,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: as a last resort, we should ask Lecter for help.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: And then you see him here, and they have the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: conversation from the first scene in the cell. I'm like,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: that would be like, oh, fuck, this is bad news.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And this would have a much better buildup. So I'm
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: re-editing it. I'm calling it the Ryan Cut. It's coming
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: out on YouTube next week.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: That's so exciting, Ryan.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: If some butts were candy and nuts.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: You're right. I just think, to me, it kind of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: deflates the balloon of the movie. But then again, I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: get it. People came here to see Hannibal Lecter, so
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: they put him in as much as they possibly could.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: So I think that a good line here is, Will
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: was like, why did he make all these mistakes in Birmingham?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. He's so meticulous. He's this genius
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: serial killer. And Lecter said, says it was his first time.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: He was sloppy. People are sloppy their first time. They
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing. And Barney's back. So Barney's there.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: What do you think of the hiss? The Lecter hiss?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: When he gives Will a good scare. What do you
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: think of that?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: Well, he did that when Tim said that.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: When he stabbed him. Yeah. That's pretty creepy.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: You're getting sloppy too.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: It's like Ric Flair going, woo!
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I would love if Lecter was doing the woo's.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: I would not want to be on a receiving end
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: of a hiss. A hint of a Lecter hiss.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: No. Or anybody's hiss, really. I don't like being hissed at.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: But, okay. Lecter then says he needs to make a call.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: My note is, Barney looking great! Exclamation point. That's what
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: it says. That's all it says.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I have a problem with this. So, like, they give
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Lecter a phone.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: I have a major problem with this, too, Tim.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: And they're not allowed to listen because he's calling his attorney.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Yuck.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: But he actually uses the opportunity to call the FBI
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: office and get Will's home address.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: So could, I'm guessing the technology was that older phones,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: if you press the dials, you could redial the last number.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: That was my impression.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was wondering about that. Like, how did they
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: do that?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Because they do it in Manhunter, too.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Like, he's able to figure out, like, how you redial.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Because this is the early 80s.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Yes. I don't know if that's true.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: He gets some secretary, and he's like, hi, I'm Professor so-and-so.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to send Will Graham, like, this information.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: A gift.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, I'm not allowed to give it out.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, I'm so sorry. And he convinces her.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: It's like this young.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: So stupid.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Would you have rather he'd done the Manhunter version where
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Brian Cox does an impression of a southern belle?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I do declare I need this phone number.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's insane.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it probably is what happens in the book.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I haven't read the book.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: So he gets Will's... He doesn't get Will's home address
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: because Will's not that stupid... The woman says Will doesn't
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: have a home address listed, but he has a P.O. box,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: which is in Marathon, Florida.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: You've got to train these admins better.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I think so. Now I think that we
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: are going to be introduced at this point to a
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: blind person. And I have my thoughts on that, on them.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: But I think we should bring this to a part two.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: And we can talk about We can talk about a
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: beautiful romance.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: The love story.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: What could have been. We can talk about how hot
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: and sexy tiger dates are. And Manhunter does have a
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: tiger date.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: Tiger King? Do they have a tiger date too? In Manhunter?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: They have a tiger date in Manhunter. They absolutely have one.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: Raise your hand if you haven't had a tiger date.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: I have not had a tiger date. Explains a lot. Um.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: But okay, all right, thank you for listening, and we
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: will see you in part two.