Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Joe Exotic murder plot victim's hubby DEAD?

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Joe Exotic murder plot victim's hubby DEAD? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation.
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  Speaker 1: After the flamboyant tiger trainer Joe Exotic is convicted of
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  Speaker 1: hiring a hitman to kill his rival, the so called
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  Speaker 1: fairy Godmother of cats, Carol Baskin, a case has reopened,
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  Speaker 1: Heat it up in the Hillsborough County Sheriff's office, and
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  Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with Joe Exotic. Now an
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  Speaker 1: investigation heating up into the disappearance of the so called
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  Speaker 1: fairy Godmother to cats, Carol Baskin's husband Don His vehicle
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  Speaker 1: found at a private airport with his keys and his
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  Speaker 1: briefcase inside, but no sign of him. What happened to
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  Speaker 1: all his money? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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  Speaker 1: Was there a murder? It's talk that his body was
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  Speaker 1: fit to big cats, therefore no evidence left behind? What
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  Speaker 1: is the truth about his disappearance? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Hi, everyone,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I me Nancy Grace. This is Fox Nation in Serious
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  Speaker 1: X one eleven Crime Stories with a report on the
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  Speaker 1: case heating up in the search for the fairy Godmother
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  Speaker 1: to cats, Carol Baskin. Who's all involved as the victim
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  Speaker 1: in a murder plot by Joe Exotic. He is the
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  Speaker 1: focus of a Netflix hit documentary now an investigation heating
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  Speaker 1: up into the disappearance of her husband. Take a listen
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  Speaker 1: to part of the Netflix dot Take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: this a zookeeper with the prison for murder Fryar. There
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  Speaker 1: are more captive tires in the US than there are
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  Speaker 1: in the wild throughout the world. May all people are nuts, man,
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  Speaker 1: They're all crazy. I'm sure y'all got a story to tell.
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  Speaker 1: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name's Joe Exotic and
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  Speaker 1: this is Sarge. It was like a mythical character living
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  Speaker 1: out in the middle of Oklahoma who owned twelve hundred
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  Speaker 1: tigers and lions and bears, and match spoke in good looking,
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  Speaker 1: I love the party and have fun. I don't think
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  Speaker 1: we're done blowing up today. Don't they have a heart
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  Speaker 1: than the soul of the mind. I've learned from them.
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  Speaker 1: But Carol Basket and Kate saying, I campm Leach taggers.
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  Speaker 1: If he ever had an animate in his life, it
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  Speaker 1: was Carol Basket, Little cats and kittens, It's Carol, Bigcat Rescue.
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  Speaker 1: Carol is the mother Teresa of Kats sleeve Ville and
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  Speaker 1: the private possession of these cats. This is my way
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  Speaker 1: of living and nobody's gonna fail me any otherwise. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. What you're hearing right there
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  Speaker 1: is from Netflix with me. Sheriff Chad Chronister, sheriff of
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  Speaker 1: Hillsborough County, Florida, where her animal sanctuary is. Doctor Gray Stafford,
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  Speaker 1: former director Conservation Wildlife World Zoo, author of Zoomility, and
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  Speaker 1: creator of the Zoologic podcast. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney
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  Speaker 1: joining me out of New York. Bruce Johnson, owner IESP
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  Speaker 1: Investigations Director, Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, psychoanalyst to the Stars,
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  Speaker 1: and Beverly Hilds doctor Bethany Marshall, and New York Post
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  Speaker 1: investigative reporter Michael Kaplan. Sheriff Chad Chronister is telling me
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  Speaker 1: the search for Carol Baskin's ex husband is heating up.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Gray Stafford, Zoologic Podcast. You say it's all about money.
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  Speaker 1: Let me remind you there is no person of interest
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  Speaker 1: or suspect. But what are you talking about money motive? Well,
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  Speaker 1: I would just remind people that sanctuaries are big business,
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  Speaker 1: And if you look at these publicly available documents into
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  Speaker 1: their tax tax filings, there's a lot of money there
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  Speaker 1: at Bigcat Rescue that is raised and it's not going
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  Speaker 1: into all their exhibitory or staffing. So I think, as
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  Speaker 1: in any case, you know, a good thing to do
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  Speaker 1: is to follow the money in suwart leaves. Can I
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  Speaker 1: ask a question here? I mean they didn't teach me
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  Speaker 1: this in law school. When you say there's big money
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  Speaker 1: in animal sanctuaries, what are we talking about? Is big money? Well,
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  Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen they had a surplus at her facility
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  Speaker 1: of over a million dollars. Did you say a surplus? Yes,
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  Speaker 1: Sheriff Chad Carnister joining me, the sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida,
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  Speaker 1: where the animal sanctuary is located, did you know that?
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  Speaker 1: I mean Stafford got that off the tax documents. That's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of money. That's a ton of money, and
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  Speaker 1: years after any great investigator, any good investigator, always follows
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  Speaker 1: the money. I mean way, a wealthy person. What wealthy
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  Speaker 1: person disappears you Everyone on this phone has been been
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  Speaker 1: doing it a long time. What person ever disappears a
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  Speaker 1: wealthy person and doesn't take their money with him, and
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  Speaker 1: we estimate his net work when when he disappeared to
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  Speaker 1: be around five to seven million dollars. And then you
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  Speaker 1: have to go into a little the will, the will
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  Speaker 1: that they thought was forged. What will have you ever
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  Speaker 1: seen that has a provision in there that says that
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  Speaker 1: if I remember kidnapped or I disappear, I leave the
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  Speaker 1: bulk of my wealth, well my entire wealth did this individual? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: hold it just a moment. Jason notions, I'm certainly no
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  Speaker 1: expert at probate, but I have written wills for people
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  Speaker 1: when they're simple. I've never been anything like that in
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  Speaker 1: a will I left, I'd write my dad's will, he
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  Speaker 1: left everything to my mom. I write my mom's well,
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  Speaker 1: she loved everything to her grand children. So long story short,
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  Speaker 1: I've never heard of a provision like that in a will.
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  Speaker 1: This is your expertise, Oceans there you see enough probated
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  Speaker 1: uh you know estates, And again it's it's people with
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  Speaker 1: assets that do it. So sometimes they happen if I'm
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  Speaker 1: kidnapped or go missing. You've actually put that out of will.
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  Speaker 1: Listen that specific codessle I have not talken out of
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  Speaker 1: both sides of your mouth again, surprised eccentric. Eccentric people
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  Speaker 1: will be creative with restrictions and odd provisions. This one
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  Speaker 1: I haven't seen. Sheriff Chronister, Chad Chronister elected sheriff. Are
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  Speaker 1: you sure that was in his will? One percent was
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  Speaker 1: in his will? There was even a witness. You have
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  Speaker 1: to remember when you watch this documentary, they always thought
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  Speaker 1: someone was spiled on one another. They were extremely competitive
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  Speaker 1: and you almost had to prove your allegiance daily. And
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  Speaker 1: there was one of the employees there said she witnessed
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  Speaker 1: them signed the document. She later recanted that story and
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  Speaker 1: said she did not witness, but felt compelled to say
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  Speaker 1: that she witnessed the signatures on those doctors. Well, that
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  Speaker 1: doesn't that defeat the will right there? If you don't
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  Speaker 1: have a witness, sheriff, if we were told no on
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  Speaker 1: a civil civil portion of it, because she recanted her story,
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  Speaker 1: but the first part so the aired, I guess on
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  Speaker 1: the side of cautions for lack of a better term,
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  Speaker 1: and she was awarded every single opinion of this will.
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  Speaker 1: His children received absolutely zero. I set some sour grapes
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  Speaker 1: right there. In Carol Baskin's defense, I don't know the
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  Speaker 1: truth of this, but I'm very, very intrigued by the
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  Speaker 1: fact that he goes missing through a private jet port
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  Speaker 1: where you basically pull up, you park in front, you
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  Speaker 1: walk in the door like you're walking in the pharmacy,
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  Speaker 1: you walk out in the back of the office, and
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  Speaker 1: get on a plane. There's no security, there's nothing. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you can show your high school library card basically to
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  Speaker 1: show who you are. It's not like you're going through ESA.
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  Speaker 1: At the airport, they find his vehicle there with his briefcase.
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  Speaker 1: Michael Kaplan with the investigative reporter in New York Post,
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  Speaker 1: what was in his vehicle when he went missing. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know that's the answer to that question. I think
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  Speaker 1: we were just talking about it, Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase
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  Speaker 1: Research Institute. Wasn't it his briefcase? Yes, the briefcase. Why
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  Speaker 1: would you leave your keys in your vehicle? That doesn't
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  Speaker 1: Apparently he didn't secure the vehicle, he didn't take the
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  Speaker 1: keys with him, he didn't take a briefcase, and apparently
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  Speaker 1: there was some luggage in the car. So if in
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  Speaker 1: fact he was going somewhere, he didn't take anything with
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  Speaker 1: him that he should have. Okay, Michael Kaplan New York
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  Speaker 1: Post reporter. You must be really humiliated that director of
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  Speaker 1: the Colecase Research Institute knew that answer. I'm gonna give
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  Speaker 1: you a moment to gather yourself right now, thank you, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: right now. This is just a theory, but there's got
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  Speaker 1: to be not in court, of course, but a death,
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  Speaker 1: and according to court watchers legal eagles, the motive would
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  Speaker 1: beat money. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix.
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  Speaker 1: Jack don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth.
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  Speaker 1: He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife
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  Speaker 1: at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked
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  Speaker 1: the property and drove the property. Now you talking about
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  Speaker 1: forty acres, Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that
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  Speaker 1: they should pursue that area any further. There were aerial
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  Speaker 1: searches done, they found nothing. Then after three or four
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  Speaker 1: days we found his van abandoned at an airport with
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  Speaker 1: the keys to in it, his briefcase in it, but
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  Speaker 1: no Don Lewis. And it didn't make sense, Like with
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  Speaker 1: what he said to me, if you was truly wanting
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  Speaker 1: to disappear and nobody knew where you was at, would
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  Speaker 1: you leave your van where you got in a plane
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  Speaker 1: to take off, you wouldn't nobody know you is in
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  Speaker 1: the plane, because that's now a clue. Do you think
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  Speaker 1: it was planted? I think someone else drove the van there.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was planted. There Crime Stories
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  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we are talking about a guy called
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  Speaker 1: Joe Exotic. He named himself Joe Exotic, not his real name,
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  Speaker 1: real name Shrivel, and he's a subject of a brand
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  Speaker 1: new Netflix hit, Tiger King, Murder, Mayhem and Madness to
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycholis to the Stars, who shall remain name?
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  Speaker 1: What's joining me from Beverly Hills, Doctor Bethany, have you
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  Speaker 1: noticed that rich people can't seem to live without their money?
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  Speaker 1: That you know, right now, at a time of coronavirus,
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  Speaker 1: we hear people complaining that they can't go to the
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  Speaker 1: nail salon or they can't get their hair, And that's real.
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  Speaker 1: That's not me making it up. It's real. And people
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  Speaker 1: have been shamed about that because it's just so irrelevant.
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  Speaker 1: At a time like this, rich people have a hard
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  Speaker 1: time doing without luxuries. So my question is, follow the money.
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  Speaker 1: What is it once you get used to all that money.
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  Speaker 1: You just can't do without it, Nancy. I have had
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  Speaker 1: entire families come into my Beverly Hills office along with
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  Speaker 1: their attorneys, their grandchildren, their estate attorneys, everybody. All they
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  Speaker 1: can do is talk about the money, who has it,
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  Speaker 1: who's taking it? And in my field, we call it
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  Speaker 1: the third It's a fancy word which means it's that
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  Speaker 1: one thing which you just say, tird t u r d.
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  Speaker 1: The third thi r D mean sorry. I found it
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  Speaker 1: very hard to believe that that word would even come
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  Speaker 1: out of your very prim improper mouth. But go ahead,
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  Speaker 1: not okay. The third thi D is a fancy term
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  Speaker 1: that means that that is, it's the elephant in the room.
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  Speaker 1: It's the one thing through which everybody is relating. It's
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  Speaker 1: the only thing that they care about is the money.
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  Speaker 1: And when we think about Carol, we think about show Exotic,
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  Speaker 1: we think about all these crazy, eccentric characters. What is
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  Speaker 1: in common with all these crimes, all these plots, all
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  Speaker 1: these disappearances, is money. It's not animals. This is not
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  Speaker 1: a story about animals, because the animals are being exploited
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  Speaker 1: for financial gain. I find it very interesting that Carol
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  Speaker 1: said that it was unusual that it was not unusual
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  Speaker 1: for her husband to leave for days at a time
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  Speaker 1: without even telling her that he was leaving. What kind
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  Speaker 1: of a marriage is that? And I agree with Cheryl
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  Speaker 1: McCollum that what are all the details around his disappearance?
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  Speaker 1: Did she have a fantasy about where he went? Did
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  Speaker 1: she miss him? Was she crying? Was she putting out
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  Speaker 1: missing person flyers? What was her affect after the disappearance?
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  Speaker 1: It seems that all the emotions like metal filings to
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  Speaker 1: a magnet, The emotions are going towards the money and
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  Speaker 1: the animals which represent the proturing of money, rather than
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  Speaker 1: people take a listen to this. Joe brought it up
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  Speaker 1: several times. I know anybody can kill the lady. I
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  Speaker 1: just put it off. As you know, bullet. I came
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  Speaker 1: into office one day and he's like, I got this
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  Speaker 1: crossbow and can use this on her nature trail. Wherever
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  Speaker 1: she walks. You shoot her with this and nobody ever
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  Speaker 1: see it. I'm like, what the book? Have you seen
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  Speaker 1: me walking around floor with a camouflage suit on? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: but a fucking crossbow? Give me a break, Alan Lover.
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  Speaker 1: He's an old time employee of Jeff. Jeff knows him
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  Speaker 1: real well, supposedly since he has a tear drop tattoo.
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  Speaker 1: He's killed somebody before. Well, Joe canry one day decide
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  Speaker 1: the blue, He says, Do you think Alan can kill somebody?
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  Speaker 1: I said, is he capable of it? I said, of course,
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  Speaker 1: who's not. I'll cut her fat off for you. If
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  Speaker 1: you've all and he's all into that, would you let
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  Speaker 1: me never bring it back? No? No, get rid of
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  Speaker 1: in the swap Okay, we'll wow To the host and
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  Speaker 1: founder of Zoologic podcast, the former director of Conservation Wildlife
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  Speaker 1: World Zoo out in Arizona, doctor Gray Stafford, how did
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you manage to get your mits on tax returns? Well,
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  Speaker 1: there's some great bloggers out there that have been tracking
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  Speaker 1: the sanctuary business, and it is a business for many years,
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  Speaker 1: so I'm relying on their research, not my own. And
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  Speaker 1: it's publicly searched documents, so tax documents and so forth
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  Speaker 1: that these organizations have to file like we all do.
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  Speaker 1: It's there and I think donors and volunteers and visitors
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  Speaker 1: would be surprised at the amount of money. I am surprised.
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  Speaker 1: Terrell's Place Sheriff Chad Kronister, the sheriff there, in Hillsboro County, Florida.
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  Speaker 1: You heard the questions that doctor Bethany Marshall in Beverly
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  Speaker 1: Hills post about Carol's affect. Did she put up posters?
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  Speaker 1: What did she do? Was she crying? Was she distraught
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  Speaker 1: when the husband goes missing? Do you recall her demeanor
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  Speaker 1: at the time. I don't. I don't have an accurate
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  Speaker 1: answer for that. But let me just touch on real
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: quick about the truck at the airport. I think a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people are operating under the theory that he
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  Speaker 1: left and fled to He had a home in Costa Rica.
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  Speaker 1: His house manager there hadn't seen him in six months,
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  Speaker 1: the security guards that worked on the property hadn't seen
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  Speaker 1: him in six months. Some of the business associates that
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  Speaker 1: he had hadn't seen him in six months. So no
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  Speaker 1: one knows that or I were not operating in a
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  Speaker 1: theory that he went to Costa Rica. I didn't even
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  Speaker 1: know he had a home in Costa Rica, sheriff. So
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  Speaker 1: he does have a home there, but nobody's seen him
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  Speaker 1: even up to today. And not only did he have
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  Speaker 1: a home, he had a girlfriend in Costa Rica. Neither
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  Speaker 1: one had seen him in six months. Okay. That caused
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  Speaker 1: a lot of raised eyebrows in here, especially Jackie Howard,
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  Speaker 1: my producer over there, who's now laughing. Whoa, whoa, Wait
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  Speaker 1: a minute, Michael Kaplan, what is happening with you? That
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  Speaker 1: man has a mistress and buttoned up in Costa Rica? Hello? Well,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I've never heard one word about
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  Speaker 1: a mistress. So, Michael Kaplan, New York Post reporter, this
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  Speaker 1: is news to everybody right now that we're hearing this
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  Speaker 1: from Sheriff Chad Cronister for the first time, news to
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  Speaker 1: me as well. I have to. I mean, have you noticed,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you're right there in Manhattan where you know
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  Speaker 1: a regular apartment called seven hundred thousand dollars a one bedroom,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I might add, but have you noticed that rich people
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that you guys report about every day, they can't seem
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  Speaker 1: to do without their money. So somewhere, if this guy
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  Speaker 1: really does take off, he's got to be sitting on
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  Speaker 1: a pot of gold. Would you agree with that, Michael,
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  Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I would agree with that.
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  Speaker 1: Would I would think that he would have had you know,
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  Speaker 1: had money with him, or had you know access to it? Obviously, yes,
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  Speaker 1: access to it. He may not have it, you know,
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  Speaker 1: stuffed in the lining of his pants. But Cheryl McCollum,
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  Speaker 1: a director coal case research, just to chief, wouldn't that
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  Speaker 1: be a matter of running down a money trail? O.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: The money trail is going to be the key to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this whole thing if you look at it. Carol Backkin
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: went after these private zooms so that she should be
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the only game in town. It was all about money.
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  Speaker 1: If she was the only place you could go to
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  Speaker 1: see these beautiful creatures, then she's gonna be able to
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  Speaker 1: raise five times the amount of money she'd be able
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to raise if you could. Why are you saying that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: about her? You don't know that. Maybe it was because
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: of love of animals. Okay, So here's the thing. Carol
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Backkins is in Florida and goes after somebody in Oklahoma.
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  Speaker 1: So she started this whole thing about money. But Joe
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  Speaker 1: Exotic stole the name of her No, he stole the
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  Speaker 1: name of her sanctuary. He changed the name of his show.
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  Speaker 1: But Nancy that was asked her Carol through the first
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  Speaker 1: stone in this thing. Joe Exotic didn't know who she
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  Speaker 1: was till he read about himself in a newspaper where
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  Speaker 1: she's threatened to shut him down. She wanted that man
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  Speaker 1: out of boozers. She went after his livelihood, all due respects,
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  Speaker 1: but Joe Resarted made like five hundred thousand dollars. What
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  Speaker 1: the heck else could he do for five hundred thousand
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  Speaker 1: dollars in Oklahoma? Well, I can tell you one thing
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  Speaker 1: he couldn't do, and that has demand her head and
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  Speaker 1: a jar, Cheryl McCollum. So that's one way not to
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  Speaker 1: ever make anymore money by sitting your rear end in
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: a federal pen for the next twenty five years. But
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: you know you want to give him a get out
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of jail free card because he needed to make a
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  Speaker 1: living in Oklahoma. A lot of people actually have real
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: jobs in Oklahoma, not hiring hitman. Cheryl Banner. Okay, let
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: me sink jump in. Yes, this is Bruce. One other
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  Speaker 1: thing I mean, he was a known player Carol's first husband,
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  Speaker 1: and in the documentary it also said that he wrote
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  Speaker 1: a sealed letter to his family, which they revealed on
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the show. Also that in the event that he goes
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  Speaker 1: missing to look at her, and that she had threatened him,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: he had guns in the house and she took away
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: his gun and she had a gun in the house
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  Speaker 1: and had threatened him with the gun. So she's no
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  Speaker 1: angel here in all this. And also what the reporter
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: had mentioned, she had been going after him and his
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: business hard and Peter as a huge following. As you know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: they went after him and their goal was to put
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: him out of business, and they did. And you know, well,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I know you're saying she's no angel, but let me
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: remind you, Bruce Johnson, even angels sometimes get dirty faces. Hi, guys,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here, we have all worked so hard to
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back against
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: America's crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing literally
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: into Don't Be a Victim. You could pre order now
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: go to Crime online dot Com pre order now and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: guys were talking about as he titles himself, Joe Exotic.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends over at Netflix would
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: raise my eye browsers. She threatened to kill me. That's
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: not enough together. Nope, there speech there's free speech. We
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: don't restrain free speech in this country. We punish it
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: after it's done. I'm sure in the judgment's eyes it
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: was hearsay. But God happened in Gin and he disappeared
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: in Augus. He was shipping some cars down to Costa Rica.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Everything had to be done in Miami Monday morning, and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I had to get the titles to the cars and
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: stuff ready. But I needed him to tell me something.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I can't waiting for him to call me. He didn't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: call me. I started calling him, didn't answer the phone,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: didn't answer the phone. This continued all through Saturday, all
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: through Sunday. I got no answer. I finally got a
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: hold of Carol. She says, do you think I should
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: call the police? And I said, do you think? Wow?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think I should call police? Okay, right there,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to doctor Bethanie Marshall jump in, well, this doesn't seem
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: like a woman who's very concerned about the fact that
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: her husband's gotten missing. Carol's affect is very shallow. Every
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: time I hear her voice. Earlier in the show, you
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: played her saying something to the effect of, well, I
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: know Joe Exotic wanted to kill me. All along, but
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: she kind of giggles like she thinks it's funny, like
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: almost like there's this big rama between her and Joe Exotic.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of two villages that are kind of
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: fighting and rampaging against each other, like they're locked in
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: some fight that's actually exciting to them. They seem like
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: drama queens. And when her husband goes missing and she
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to report him, it helps me that there's
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: trouble in her own camp. There's not just trouble in
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the other person's camp, Shoe Exotics camp, there's trouble in
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: her camp too. I mean, you know, doctor Bethany. Can
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I tell you a little story, a story I haven't
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: told you yet. David, as you know, is a business
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: person and he had to go out of town and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: he always calls me, lets me know when he or
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: texts me it's easier, lets me know when he lands,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: lets me know when he gets to his first meeting,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: lets me know when he gets to his hotel. Yeah,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I typically don't speak to me again till the next morning.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't hear that I knew he went out to dinner.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't ever hear that he made it to the hotel,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: but I thought I knew the hotel, but I wasn't
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: sure myself. And you know d that works with me,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: stayed up until four o'clock in the morning. I was
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: so convinced somebody bopped him in the head, and so
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I'm parking a lot in Florida. I was worried, sick.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: We finally found the hotel. We were even calling hospitals,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: hospitals because he never forgets to text when he gets
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to the hotel. Well, we finally found d found him,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and I called the night clerk and after many many begging, threats,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, you can imagine he went to the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: room and checked on David to make sure he was okay.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: He was fine. And it's just hard for me to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: imagine your husband going missing and you don't raise the alarm.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: But that could just be the difference in the marriage.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Bethany Well well, Dancy. But also think about the fact
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that if he had a mistress in Costa Rica, if
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: he had this life away from her, I could see
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: her wanting to check it in on him frequently, just
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: out of a sense of paranoia. If she felt she
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: was being cheated on like O, if you think your
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: husband has a mistress in California, go ahead, get a divorce. Three.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I did not mean that as a higher hit man
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: or kill him. I mean that as divorce. Why check
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: up on him? Forget that? Move on all right, no offense,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Jason notions. But men are like buses. A new one's
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: gonna come along every fifteen minutes. Don't get mad at me, guys.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Listen to this from our friends at Netflix. That new
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: power attorney gave her control over the estate, but she
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: prepared his power of attorney A normal person would put
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: upon my death, you know, for sentence upon my disappearance.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Isn't it suspicious that the power of attorney says upon
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: my disappearance? Is that normal verbiage I have in thirty
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: seven years never seen. It's a poor disappearance, never have
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: in that respect. This is terribly unusual. I don't know
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: who anticipates. Everybody anticipates her death, but who in the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: world anticipates disappearance? And how did Carol behave in the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: aftermath of his disappearance? After Don disappeared, Carol and her
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: family got rid of everybody that worked for Don. They
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: got rid of everything that he owned. There was a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: note pin to the refresherator door. It said, never speak
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: that man's name again in this house. Wow, you're hearing
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: from our friends at Netflix Tiger King, murder, mayhem, and madness.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: To Michael Kaplan, investigative reporter, New York Post, what do
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: we know about that? I mean that that sounds pretty well.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I mean Sounlex was trying to totally divorce herself from
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: anything to do with his life or anybody who would
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: you know, question what happened to the guy? Doesn't it? Well?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: It does, but I don't know that that's necessarily true.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe she was cutting expensive I don't know the answer
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: to that, but I know I do know based on
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: what doctor Gray Stafford's telling us about tax returns. But
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: there was a million dollars surplus, so I'm not sure
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: about that. Maybe his employees didn't like her and there
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: was animosity. I don't know the answer to that, but
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it is circumstantial, so to you, Special guest shaff Chad Chronister,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the elected share of Hillsboro County, Florida. Where does the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: investigation into his death or excuse me, disappearance stand now?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And why has it heated up? Well? Luckily did the
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I should say fortunate because of the popularity of this
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Netflix phenomenon, this documentary Tiger King. We're starting a gonna
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: get a ton of leads on average, about six a
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: day for the last five days. Nothing so far that
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: has been viable. Most of it is been phone calls
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: or emails with people's theories. They've watched the show and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: now they have a theory they want to they can
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: tell us how he was killed and who did it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: But again, nothing credible. But I'm optimistic. I'm hoping this
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: will be during this series. This will again rehash some
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: relationship that's been soured as an employee, something, some piece
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of evidence, interview, anything that will help us finally solve
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: this disappearance. You know, Sheriff Chad Chronister, I was about
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to come down on you, bring down the hammer when
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you said they knew. Netflix documentary has made the case
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: wildly popular. We are not a lynch mob. We don't
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: meet out justice based on popularity or unpopularity. But when
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you say you're getting leads like six a day, that's
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a whole other cannon worms way in on that newer
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: defense attorney Jason Oceans, I mean this is not voting somebody,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Miss Sweet Potato, nobody's gonna go home, Miss Congeniality, or
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: mister Universe. That it's not about a popular vote. It's
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: about evidence being direct or circumstantial. Jason, There's there's no
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: doubt about it, Nancy. I mean, it's often you you
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: would say for certain that you know, sometimes circumstantial evidence
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: can just be overwhelming. You know, where's the body, where's
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the gun. But you can make those cases, you know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: just from the prosecutorial side. So yeah, circumstances associated with
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: all of this and the characters. I mean, it's clearly
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: a Netflix show for sure, but it's it's real life.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I don't care about it being a show or all
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: for my entertainment. I care about what happened to this guy.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Did he disappear, which I find hard to believe since
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: he was rich and used to privilege, And if he
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: didn't disappear, that means he's dead. And I find it
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: very hard to believe that he could go under the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: radar for this long director coal case research to call
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: him really hard for me to believe. He vanishes without
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: a trace, and he's never popped up in all that time.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: He's never had contact with his children, never had contact
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: with his friends, as relative's nothing. Nancy has an adding
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: contact with the mistress as it cuts his money. So
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: how would he beliving wherever he supposedly with? The key
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: thing to me here is we don't know when he
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: went Missry. We just know when she recorded him. So
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the sheriff again, he's got to back this thing up
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: at least six months from the date she made that.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Halt crime stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the now conviction of the so called tiger King muldonno passage, Shriville,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of different names. But remember not just the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: hit on Carol Baskin that he forked over thousands to
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: get a rival murdered. He hated her in a long
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: time grudge match, but also for killing tigers, for killing
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: his tigers allegedly to make room for more profitable animals.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Nine counts of that as well. But you know, you'd
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: think that his conviction would be the end of the story.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: But it's not. The Fat Lady. The Fat Lady hasn't
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: sung yet. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: What a story. It's so wild it must not be true.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing people think, Oh, come on, that
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: can't be true. It's twenty years ago, cold case. Twenty
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: year old murders don't get solved. Well, it all starts,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: you know, kill Baskin, Krol Baskin, who was Carol Lewis
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: at the time and was married to donal Lewis. Oh good,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: But I did see Don Lewis about maybe a month
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: or so before he disappeared, and he didn't mention to
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: me that he thought his life was in danger. There
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: is so many strange twists in that story you would
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: have to write books, volumes of the stuff that went wrong. There,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the lives that are there, all the circumstantial evidence somebody
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: did something too done. There's a lot of stories about
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Carol having some finger in it, but nobody can prove it.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: In the last hours, the investigation into the disappearance of
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Carol Baskin's husband has been reopened. Why and let me
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: stay at the get go. She has not been named
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a suspect or a person of interest and her husband's disappearance.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: First of all, you just heard about quote circumstantial evidence.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Take a less one more time to our friends at Netflix.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Jack Don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the property and drove the property. Now you talking about
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: forty acres. Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: they should pursue that area any further. There were aerial
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: searches done, they found nothing. Then after three or four
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: days we found his van abandoned at an airport with
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the keys Dell in it, his briefcase in it. But no,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Don Lewis sheriff. We don't know the last time he
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: was seen before he went missing. That's exact the right.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Only according to her account that she had seen him
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: early one morning telling him to get the truck ready.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: They were going to take a bunch of supplies down
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: to Miami and then head to Costa Rica. But that's
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: only her account, as he got his truck and said
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to run an errand and she has never
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: seen him since. Now wait a minute, Nobody they'll worked
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: for him, None of his children, none of his friends,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: nobody saw or heard from him six months before he disappears, sheriff.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Six months. No, I'm not saying six months before. I'm saying,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: well in Costa Rica, six months before, but not but
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: not here locally in Tampa. So it was the last
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: time that we know of, conservatively speaking, Sheriff Chronister that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: he was saying by anybody other than the fairy godmother
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: of cats, Carol Baskin. Who else saw him leading up
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to his disappearance, Employees, employees around there who claimed they
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: had seen him a couple of days prior, a couple
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: of days who said he saw a day before. But
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that's that's that's as far as we can track effect.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Let me go to you, doctor Gray Stafford, former director
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Conservation Wildlife World Zoo, author of Zumility, and founder of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the Zoologic podcast. Was the husband part of the animal sanctuary?
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Was he just the money man? Was he the bookkeeper?
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Was he a zookeeper? What was he? He founded it?
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: He was the original. It was under a different name
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and it escaped me at the moment. But he founded
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: that banks where originally and then Carol joined him when
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: they became a couple. How do you know all this, Gray, Well,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like so many millions, I've watched the show, but I've
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: also done some additional reading of past news articles, about
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the missing person. But you knew Exotic and you knew
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Carol Baskin and the husband Don along before this ever
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: became a Netflix documentary. You once told me that the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: zoo community, as you call it, it's actually very small
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and closely knit. Is that true the modern accredited zoo
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: community is. Yeah, absolutely, it's a You know, what I
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: would say is that he people in this story do
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: not represent most zoo professionals. There are no heroes in
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: this story, as your previous guests have said, so we
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: certainly do know what sanctuaries are doing some of their issues.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: As I said, Carol has been very anti zoo in
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: her public statements, and so obviously it sounds to me
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: like you got a little dog in that fight. You
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: got some skin in the game. You are with the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: zoo community, and she doesn't like the zoo community. So
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I do I have to take everything you say with
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a box assault. Well, I hope you know me better
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: than well, Okay, you're right, I do. I do. Guys,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I've known doctor Gray Stafford since the Jodi Arias trial.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: How long ago was that? And we've been in very
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: close contact. I've read your work, I followed your career.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I've read your book and I've seen your podcast. I
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: believe what you're telling me. I believe that that there
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: is that that dichotomy between the zoo community and the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: let me just say, Sanctuary Area community. Very different from
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Joe Exotic though it is more like a show in
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: your words, So did you know Don Carol Baskin's husband
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that disappeared? Did you know of him? Had you ever
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: come in contact with him during his life? No? I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: did not, and I fortunately have not met Joe Exotic either.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I'm aware of these stories. It's hard not to be,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: especially since my zoos have held tigers right. Yes, I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and I would not. I would not come on your
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: show and say that zoos are perfect, Nancy. We are
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a work in progress. But clearly there's a difference between
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: modern zoos that are accredited and hold themselves to higher
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: standards and the kinds of situations we're seeing in the show.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Doctor Gray Stafford. T take a
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: listen to Netflix Tiger King. What a story. It's so wild,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: it must not be true. That's the first thing people think, Oh,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: come on, that can't be true. It's twenty years ago,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: old case, twenty year old murders don't get solved. Well,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: it all starts, you know Kale Kale Baskin, who was
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Kale Lewis at the time, was married to Don Lewis. Oh,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: but I did see Don Lewis about maybe a month
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: or so before he disappeared, and he didn't mention to
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: me that he felt his life was in danger. There
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: are so many strange twists in that story you would
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: have to write books and volumes and the stuff that
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: went wrong there, the lives that are there, all the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence somebody did something too. Don. I want you
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to take a list, So let's play cut twenty one
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Jackie from Tiger King. But then what about all of
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Don's assets, not the insurance policy votes. I have nothing
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: to do with that, all his real estate, all of
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: his holdings, all one under his will, didn't the will
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have come into play because if you disappear, you
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: can't do anything for five years. And so Carol had
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: him declared, literally did five years and one day after
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: he disappeared. And here's the latest on the case. A
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: judge has just declared Lewis dead since he's been missing
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: five years. But Hillsborough County Sheriff's that you say, they
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: will keep the case open until they have proofs. A
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: lot of things happened during those five years. A lot
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: of things were moved around. She took out a lot
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: of good things for herself and putting bad things in
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: their accounts. We ended up with all the yucky stuff.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: She was taken property out of Don's name and our
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: names and putting it in her name. Do you have
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: a tip The Hillsborough Sheriff wants to know what happened
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: to the former husband of Big Cat Rescue c e Oh.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: We are talking about the disappearance of Carol Baskin's husband.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: If you have information, the number for the Hillsborough County
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Sheriff eight one three two four seven eighty two hundred
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: repeat eight one three two four seven eighty two hundred. Again.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: No one has been named a suspect, no one has
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: been named a person of interest. But I guarantee you this,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the man is dead. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: goodbye friend.