Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Szegedi Laszlo | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #138 |

Transcript

Szegedi Laszlo | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #138 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:03
  podcast. Today's guest is a musician, all
• 0:05
  the way from Hungary. His name is sogeti Lazlo.
• 0:11
  Perfect. Yeah.
• 0:12
  Yes. I got it.
• 0:14
  I got it. I got it.
• 0:17
  Maybe I did go and Google translate before and spend a bit
• 0:19
  of time practicing. Just so I made sure I get it.
• 0:23
  Anyway, how are you doing, szigeti?
• 0:25
  Welcome to the show. Thank you.
• 0:27
  Thank you. You have to know a thing about
• 0:30
  Hungary has we share a common thing with Japanese people?
• 0:34
  So my first name is actually last little, my apologies and
• 0:40
  no, no problem. And and and my other name is
• 0:44
  sogeti from my, for my father. Because it's a down around so
• 0:50
  it's guy like John Landon or whatever.
• 0:54
  So so so you can call me last Little Brush, like there was a
• 0:58
  musician in the United States, singing the main song of the TV
• 1:03
  show Scrubs, last bang so you can just pronounce it like
• 1:09
  Laszlo. However, it's comfortable, you
• 1:13
  know, I never knew that about hungarians.
• 1:16
  I know that in other similar countries, such as Russia,
• 1:20
  historically. I don't know if they still do
• 1:22
  this. But historically, if you go back
• 1:24
  and read literature like, I don't know the idia, or what was
• 1:30
  that one by bulgakov something to do with the dog or something.
• 1:37
  There's, I can't heart of a dog. That's what it's go.
• 1:41
  Well, that's what's called in English.
• 1:42
  Anyway, there's a doctor in it who has like his name that he is
• 1:48
  referred to and then it's a similar thing where the father's
• 1:54
  name goes before your name. But then you also have, yeah,
• 1:59
  something like that. Sometimes it's like a
• 2:02
  traditional thing. I don't know if they do this
• 2:03
  anymore, but they definitely did this in like forever.
• 2:07
  Russian times and saw times and stuff like that.
• 2:11
  But, yeah, that's thing. That's interesting.
• 2:13
  I didn't realize that hungarians.
• 2:16
  Yeah, yeah. But Google changed the order of
• 2:19
  the name. So this is why you receive my
• 2:21
  name like that. Okay.
• 2:23
  Lot of Saigon and learning something new every single day.
• 2:26
  That's fantastic. Yeah, let's jump straight into
• 2:30
  it. So, you were a musician.
• 2:32
  Well, how did you get into music?
• 2:34
  Took us for your journey? Musician.
• 2:37
  I do that as a happy because my private life, I am working in
• 2:42
  it, okay? And after my two kids were born,
• 2:46
  I needed something to get the stress off and relax with
• 2:51
  something. And, besides craft beers, I
• 2:55
  decided to pick up my old guitar and started writing songs again.
• 3:02
  And, but first, I've written this songs in my native language
• 3:05
  hungry, And after that, I thought why not to do an English
• 3:10
  project. So this is a how I came up with
• 3:14
  the thing I sent to you popular sci-fi objects, which is a fun
• 3:22
  project for me. I'm not taking it too seriously,
• 3:27
  I'm not taking the whole music thing too, seriously because I
• 3:30
  don't have to earn too much money from it because it's not
• 3:33
  my living. This is just a hobby.
• 3:37
  Okay, that well I mean it's a a passion is a passion, right?
• 3:40
  You know I mean we will have different goals.
• 3:42
  I mean, one thing I find quite interesting is sometimes a lot
• 3:48
  of the time you have people, you know wanting to make their
• 3:51
  Hobbies your passions their career.
• 3:53
  But I have heard this before where people say well actually I
• 3:56
  don't want you know necessarily my passion to be my career you
• 4:00
  know and I suppose especially depends.
• 4:02
  I mean if you look for instance you're in a nightie and we'll go
• 4:04
  into that. And a bit.
• 4:05
  But if you're actually like perfectly content in that and
• 4:09
  that's the new happy, most importantly, then what you know,
• 4:14
  it's not necessary. I mean, I will say this, I think
• 4:17
  comparatively and we can all probably agree on this like idea
• 4:20
  is a hell of a lot more actually put a hmm.
• 4:27
  Let's say secure then music as a career option, you know, mean
• 4:31
  and so as far as like, you know, it's supporting yourself
• 4:34
  supporting a family. I mean, quite good.
• 4:36
  I must say, like, of all the things that I'm pursuing in my
• 4:39
  life, I've always been a musician, I always will be but
• 4:44
  I'm not kind of pursuing it as suddenly as everything else that
• 4:47
  I do, you know, like acting podcasting.
• 4:49
  All these other things that I'm really want to make something of
• 4:53
  with music it's like I want to do music.
• 4:55
  I want a record. Music start.
• 4:58
  That's very important to me. I want of a call get music out
• 5:01
  there and I still want to perform, but I don't want to
• 5:04
  like, you know go on tour for like a year to you know I mean
• 5:09
  like it's I think sometimes with certain things it's like better
• 5:13
  in small doses as opposed to just all the time because I
• 5:16
  don't know. Whenever I hear like famous
• 5:18
  musicians, talk about what it's actually like to be a musician
• 5:21
  at the day-to-day sounds awful. It's like yeah.
• 5:25
  Okay great you get to be on stage.
• 5:26
  Ages and stuff. And it's like, there's the
• 5:28
  Fanfare and stuff like that, but a lot of being a musician is,
• 5:32
  you know, and I've experienced this a little bit with, in my
• 5:36
  earlier days in bands and stuff like being in studios for hours
• 5:39
  and hours and weeks and days. Sometimes months gigging is very
• 5:44
  thankless. You do you do get like there
• 5:46
  are? I am paying very bad picture.
• 5:48
  There are, of course. Enjoyable parts of it.
• 5:50
  Gigging is a lot of fun, but the setup for gigging and especially
• 5:53
  touring, it's like, I don't know.
• 5:57
  Go go have a look on YouTube and just type in like musicians
• 6:00
  talking about touring. It just sounds like Not fun
• 6:06
  going on the bus for hours traveling and living in hotels.
• 6:13
  And I have just been watching, get back that beatless
• 6:20
  documentary and actually, they were sweating blood.
• 6:24
  They were working so hard, like, then hours a day or sometimes
• 6:29
  not of course, but the other times did you watch this show?
• 6:33
  I've seen Clips, I've yet to see it, but I've, I've got an
• 6:37
  understanding, of course of, I'm a big fan of The Beatles that
• 6:39
  most people and, and it's for you.
• 6:42
  Yeah, well, the way I look at get backers.
• 6:44
  It's an interesting look into and very kind of tragic as well,
• 6:50
  because obviously that was the last outing for the bills, as we
• 6:55
  knew them. Well, that was it for them.
• 6:56
  And it's an interesting peer into kind of them just working
• 7:01
  as a bat. Like, I think that's as if
• 7:03
  you're a musician, is very interesting to look at because I
• 7:07
  suppose sometimes when you got these like bands that are kind
• 7:10
  of Let that there's a difference between.
• 7:15
  I think like a really good band, a successful band and then and
• 7:18
  iconic industry defining band. You know, like there are certain
• 7:22
  artists, you know that. Yeah, that they transcend every
• 7:25
  like for instance, the Beatles defined what it means to be like
• 7:30
  a rock band or just a band in general boy bands.
• 7:35
  Came from that, sorry to say that.
• 7:37
  But you know, but everything has come from that in a metal Rock.
• 7:42
  Other genres as well. I linked to its it's an
• 7:45
  amalgamation of them and it also helped to spearhead of a things
• 7:48
  later down the line and it's set template and even just like from
• 7:51
  a songwriting perspective they've kind of there's a lot of
• 7:53
  things that they introduced or that they Define redefined or
• 8:00
  whatever because you know most musicians will know that
• 8:03
  obviously nothing is ever original.
• 8:05
  It's often you take an existing idea and you put your ideas on
• 8:10
  top of it. Yeah, and you like, for
• 8:12
  instance, like Led Zeppelin is famously a band that took a lot
• 8:16
  of Blues, riffs, and blues ideas, and then sort of combine
• 8:20
  that with their own ideas and create something new.
• 8:23
  And, you know, but I think with the Beatles is a bit different
• 8:27
  because they did a lot of things that redefined Music in many
• 8:33
  different ways and they cut as I said before, they said template,
• 8:37
  but that's the point. Like I think I'm a musician.
• 8:40
  Standpoint is interesting too. To see them at a point in their
• 8:44
  career where, you know, they made their money.
• 8:47
  It's not it's not about and I'm not saying they went in it for
• 8:51
  the money I truly believe that they went in it because they
• 8:53
  just loved music. Sure.
• 8:55
  But you know look you don't do anything in life without wanting
• 9:00
  to get somewhere with even even weave yourself.
• 9:03
  I know you said you're not pursuing music as like a career
• 9:05
  but I would imagine part of you is like, hey, let's see where
• 9:08
  this goes. Like I'd like to do something
• 9:09
  like this. You know.
• 9:10
  Let's see what happened. You know, you know there's
• 9:12
  always that. Oceans within us, I think to
• 9:14
  want to or motivation. Sorry to see where we can take
• 9:19
  something and if hey if you start getting somewhere with
• 9:21
  something keep pushing it further and pushing it further.
• 9:24
  But yeah with that particular record get back.
• 9:30
  It's like kind of a Bittersweet thing but it's also quite
• 9:34
  educational as well. And as you say, just going back
• 9:38
  to the original point of, you know, sweating blood in the
• 9:41
  studio and You know, I think I don't know for certain but I
• 9:45
  reckon there was probably pressure on them to make that
• 9:48
  record from their label and I rambled.
• 9:51
  So yes. Yeah.
• 9:52
  I like and that's quite a common theme to this day as well.
• 9:56
  Like record companies owning you and, you know, for instance, you
• 9:59
  sign a five-year contract and then you got to put out like
• 10:02
  three albums in five years plus touring.
• 10:06
  So you just basically never get any time for yourself and it's,
• 10:10
  you know, the music process that's the thing.
• 10:12
  When you about it like week me and you can sit here and we can
• 10:16
  like write music freely in our own time and there's no pressure
• 10:20
  and you know, it comes to us and it's an enjoyable experience,
• 10:23
  but if you're a professional musician, you got that pressure
• 10:28
  on you and it's your career. So what you do for a living, I
• 10:33
  mean there's so much at stake and I imagine that to an extent
• 10:37
  that can suck the fun out of it a little bit, but it can also
• 10:41
  make it like really tough because you can't, you can't
• 10:44
  like force an idea. Let his something I learned I'm
• 10:48
  going to ramble for a little bit.
• 10:49
  So I do apologize. But it's just because we got
• 10:51
  talking about this like, I just can't go on.
• 10:53
  Yeah, I can't not, like, share this because I've never really
• 10:56
  said this. for, but when I first started some songwriting, I used
• 11:02
  to as I imagine like many musicians try to Sit down and,
• 11:08
  like, force things. I was like, I need to come up
• 11:10
  with something, come out something.
• 11:11
  And I think part of the problem was, I just hadn't lived yet,
• 11:15
  which I think is important. You need to live a life and have
• 11:18
  experiences. So you got something to write
• 11:20
  about, but also, I think in many cases like, songwriting is
• 11:27
  something where, you know, it comes the ideas come to you from
• 11:32
  different places. Maybe it's a to am thing.
• 11:34
  Maybe it's, I don't know, a particular feeling the loss of a
• 11:38
  loved one. It could be many different
• 11:41
  things, you know? And it kind of comes like, I
• 11:44
  think Justin hook. I've been watching Justin
• 11:46
  Hawkins a lot lately as a YouTube channel and he described
• 11:51
  a lot of the time like songwriting to be a sort of a
• 11:54
  thing where certain people Will, you know, be thinking of an idea
• 11:57
  and then they'll just grab an idea and and start working on
• 12:01
  it. And it's I feel it's like that.
• 12:02
  Like for me, I started writing better music once I stopped
• 12:06
  trying, which sounds crazy but like, it's true.
• 12:10
  You know what I mean? It's like you stop thinking
• 12:12
  about it and then the idea comes to you and then you just sit
• 12:14
  down and you work on it and then a couple of minutes later you
• 12:17
  got song. But what are your thoughts on an
• 12:22
  all of that? And what were actually what were
• 12:23
  your takeaways from from get back?
• 12:29
  So you mentioned nothing is original even.
• 12:32
  This was maybe they're nice or tense album.
• 12:36
  Mmm. Yeah, a lot of Firsts for sure,
• 12:39
  but even during the recording sessions, they were just
• 12:44
  recording because they are recorded, but they were just
• 12:47
  playing other songs other songs from other people.
• 12:51
  So they were really musicians, not just songwriters and not
• 12:55
  just businessman, but they were just Four guys in there.
• 13:00
  They were not even 30. I guess they were young and they
• 13:06
  were just playing together enjoying themselves after a
• 13:10
  while, not at the beginning, because the pressure is there as
• 13:13
  you mentioned. But they are playing old Elvis
• 13:17
  songs, rock and roll stuff. Just and sometimes on a high
• 13:21
  pitch just playing around and it was so great to see them.
• 13:27
  And I understand why they're there is a movie called
• 13:31
  yesterday, did you see yesterday?
• 13:35
  And OK, spoiler alert. So at the end the main character
• 13:43
  of the movie visits John Lennon because this this movie is in a
• 13:49
  parallel universe where big this didn't exist.
• 13:53
  So this is why John Lennon is still alive.
• 13:57
  And even in that movie, just seeing the actor who is playing
• 14:01
  John Lennon. So seeing John Leonard is so
• 14:05
  amusing. It is so fun.
• 14:08
  So when I was watching get back and I was I was watching these
• 14:11
  guys playing. I felt that saying And they
• 14:18
  allow themselves to make mistakes.
• 14:21
  So they are all kind of mumbling with the lyrics and playing
• 14:25
  around for days even the song get back they are they're
• 14:29
  playing it like 15 times during the movie and the lyrics is
• 14:33
  developing. So I think it is a great movie
• 14:38
  for fans like you because I was trying to watch it with my
• 14:41
  family and they were poured cement.
• 14:46
  For fans, it's perfect. It's an educational movie.
• 14:51
  I think that's I think that's the thing.
• 14:53
  Like if you've got to be a big music fan or a musician to
• 14:57
  really get like to want to be entertained by it and I know
• 15:01
  that sounds very like exclusively oh what do you mean?
• 15:04
  But like the fact that your family didn't find it funny to
• 15:07
  me is not surprising. I think it's just like not not
• 15:10
  in a mean way. I just mean that like you know
• 15:11
  they Stone appreciate what's brilliant about like I'll give
• 15:15
  you a really quick example. Sample.
• 15:17
  Like for those listings is to Define what exactly what I mean
• 15:21
  here. As you said like they're working
• 15:24
  on their songs continuously and like that the song get back but
• 15:27
  there's a clip where Paul's just playing it endlessly and
• 15:30
  endlessly and endlessly. And in the very beginning, it
• 15:33
  kind of sounds a bit. Yeah, you can hear the Bare
• 15:36
  Bones of it, but it's not quite there yet.
• 15:39
  And my God, the amount of songs I've written over the years or
• 15:42
  people. I've heard written songs like in
• 15:44
  the release early demo, and it's like, oh, Sounds rubbish.
• 15:48
  But that's the thing about songwriting isn't.
• 15:50
  It's like, even even when you've written like the Bare Bones of
• 15:54
  it and stuff like then it comes to practicing and playing it.
• 15:58
  And then you kind of find like a Groove, there's been songs that
• 16:01
  I've written where, you know, it started one way and then I kept
• 16:06
  playing it and then I found a better Rhythm for it.
• 16:08
  And maybe I've play a bit faster or tweak, the cause a bit or
• 16:12
  something like that. To me, it felt a lot like that
• 16:15
  was what the Beatles were doing, and And, as you said, they are
• 16:17
  just like four guys, four musicians, having fun.
• 16:20
  And I think that's kind of like, when the music is at its best,
• 16:24
  you know? But with that being said though,
• 16:27
  I don't know, I mean, I love how there's a magical bit in it.
• 16:32
  Where George Harrison just goes? Oh yeah.
• 16:35
  Like all right, overall this song last night and he's like
• 16:39
  what? And then he just plays.
• 16:41
  I me mind just perfectly and I just laugh but I was like You
• 16:47
  just wrote this last night. This amazing song.
• 16:50
  He just like just came to him in the night but then that speaks
• 16:53
  to how brilliant and talented than all four of them were mean
• 16:58
  they just write a amazing song like that just like the night
• 17:03
  before for geniuses and every fan should watch get back.
• 17:10
  I tell ya, I truly believe that. Like I remember when I was
• 17:14
  growing up, like I think most people will you get into music?
• 17:18
  Will you become a musician? You become a fan of The Beatles.
• 17:20
  Even even if like you, you know, you listen to other genres and
• 17:25
  it's not like your thing. I think you just they're just
• 17:27
  they just wrote Good sock, good music.
• 17:30
  That pretty much I think has like any universal appeal.
• 17:33
  Anyone can enjoy it because it's just good music, but at the same
• 17:37
  time like I think it's when you start delving in and you start
• 17:41
  looking at them as musicians and what they contributed and Why
• 17:46
  that stuff is important and why their legacy is so important.
• 17:50
  That's where it starts to get, interesting.
• 17:51
  I think and get back as a really good example of that because
• 17:54
  it's like It has it is it's like one of those musicians movies
• 17:59
  that every musician needs to see.
• 18:01
  Yeah, I know, I haven't seen it yet seen the clip but you know,
• 18:04
  like you need to at least be like into them and understand
• 18:07
  that why they're important like in the same way that if you
• 18:09
  watch spinal tap, that's a hilarious Insight over the top
• 18:13
  but hilarious. As far as I could give ever been
• 18:15
  in a band. You can relate, all of that
• 18:17
  stuff you can eat and it's just Timeless.
• 18:19
  I mean that was made in what the 80s and it's still relevant to
• 18:22
  this day and that get back. Documentary was in the 60s.
• 18:28
  I think it's like 69 or something, but you sit and watch
• 18:30
  it. And and like, all of its
• 18:32
  relatable. Like just all of it.
• 18:34
  Even just let their little mini arguments getting annoyed.
• 18:36
  Like the brilliant bit wet. Pool is like, clearly pause the
• 18:41
  leader of the band at least at that point.
• 18:46
  And I never really realized that.
• 18:47
  I mean, I always kind of assumed that John was, was the leader of
• 18:50
  the band and he had a bit of a like how a struggle with Paul
• 18:55
  but I didn't Eli's Paul was quite so like I'm the leader
• 18:59
  it's meat. Like I'm the boss like not
• 19:02
  always but in certain instances but there's a brilliant bit
• 19:06
  where that in that bit where George Harrison's playing.
• 19:10
  I Me Mine. And pull comes up behind him
• 19:15
  with his, like foot, kind of like, I don't know, you know
• 19:19
  what? When you're like leaning and
• 19:20
  you're like, that leaning over someone like that just let
• 19:22
  uh-huh. Uh-huh.
• 19:24
  Uh-huh. And it's like, even in that
• 19:25
  interaction, where he's like listing it, CJ doesn't say
• 19:28
  anything, but he's like going smoking a cigarette.
• 19:32
  Like he's already planning on how he's going to change it,
• 19:36
  change this and you're gonna do this.
• 19:38
  I'm gonna do this. Never smoking so much cigarette.
• 19:41
  On the story. Almost every scene is filled
• 19:45
  with smoke, just a different time.
• 19:47
  And I think that was probably back back when they used to tell
• 19:50
  people that smoking was good for you.
• 19:51
  And it's like something like that.
• 19:55
  It's crazy to figure out one time that there was actual
• 19:57
  adverts that told you that like yes walking's, good for your
• 20:00
  health, it would start. But yeah.
• 20:04
  Anyway anyway, well speaking of musicians and songwriters and
• 20:08
  everything like what's your song?
• 20:11
  writing approach, like, How do you write songs?
• 20:17
  I think you had a passion taking out an idea and I'm trying to
• 20:22
  write lyrics to it. But for this Epi, as The Help
• 20:27
  from My Friends, how did the Beatles sing it?
• 20:31
  I get by with a Little Help from My Friends.
• 20:34
  So I asked for friends of mine to help with the lyrics because
• 20:41
  they also love science fiction, as I do, and I told them he'd
• 20:46
  screw shaft. Let's just sit together and try
• 20:49
  something from it, and they will happen to lyrics a lot like 7%.
• 20:55
  But later on, I was turning them to songs recording the guitar
• 21:00
  parts and adding drums, computer drums to them and singing to
• 21:08
  them. And I hire some musicians on
• 21:11
  fiber, to extend, the experience with the violin and saxophone.
• 21:17
  Interesting. So this was the process.
• 21:21
  We know hiring people before for my other project and I really
• 21:26
  enjoy because you can get so great deals with that man,
• 21:32
  you're bright. You're brave person I do.
• 21:34
  I'm not sure. I trust people and five, I like
• 21:38
  cheese. I mean what, what can go wrong.
• 21:41
  So a local girl, they can take your money and then just send
• 21:45
  you. Yeah, they're the wrong kind of
• 21:49
  row. So I prepared an amount of small
• 21:51
  amount like 20 bucks or then box which I expected and I was
• 22:00
  watching a lot of YouTube videos about it, it can go wrong, like
• 22:04
  you mentioned that they can just send them back.
• 22:08
  Some shit is something but I was checking the reviews and again I
• 22:15
  was not expecting too much. Much.
• 22:18
  But these musicians who are so amazing girl from Germany and,
• 22:24
  and the saxophone player from New York, they sent me so
• 22:29
  amazing stuff, and even fiber or Ortiz, musicians, let you do
• 22:36
  revisions. So there was an opportunity to
• 22:40
  say. Maybe this part is a little bit
• 22:43
  too mellow or something. Maybe you could change that.
• 22:47
  And they did that. So it was such an amazing
• 22:52
  experience. I got that experience with
• 22:56
  mixing. So I found a good mixer in New
• 23:00
  York but he is prices went up. It's not a surprise because he's
• 23:07
  amazing. So I turned to another guy and
• 23:10
  I'm not sure his account is even real, the whole conversation or
• 23:14
  the communication was, nah man. And the mix didn't turn out as
• 23:22
  quite as well as I hoped it would be.
• 23:26
  So yeah, it can go wrong. But I'm always battling small
• 23:30
  amounts like, The price of a few lunches, something like that.
• 23:37
  So not like hundreds or thousands on the 23rd.
• 23:42
  The Box especially risk in that sense.
• 23:46
  It's amazing as well that you know you've got this kind of
• 23:49
  international flavor going on there and just I don't know I
• 23:54
  just maybe it's just because I'm getting older.
• 23:56
  Now I'm just looking at the way things are but it's just
• 24:00
  incredible and it blows my mind that you can just create music
• 24:05
  on the fly from home and have people just send you other stuff
• 24:09
  and put that all together and it because like you know it's like
• 24:12
  when we were growing up is like you just if you wanted to write
• 24:16
  music with other people yet to find people and then get in a
• 24:19
  room together and do it you know it's like I don't know it's just
• 24:23
  weird at times change in a amazing but just crazy.
• 24:29
  Yeah, if I even followed these musicians on Instagram, cool, we
• 24:35
  are Facebook as well and I really enjoy how they are.
• 24:40
  One of them is is working on a cruise ship right now as a
• 24:44
  guitar player, cool. And I can see how he's traveling
• 24:47
  from South America to Texas and these islands and is going to
• 24:54
  the beach, and playing some music, and the other way.
• 24:58
  One is having a new release. So what does it cost me to, to
• 25:04
  share his release. Nothing and he is happy, I am
• 25:08
  happy. Everybody's happy.
• 25:10
  Nice. You mentioned the the songs
• 25:16
  you're writing have or about science fiction.
• 25:19
  I love science fiction just on a side that but like is there like
• 25:23
  a particular theme going on here?
• 25:26
  Or is there like I dare. Is it like a storybook type
• 25:30
  thing or is it just like random songs about science fiction
• 25:35
  themes? That was what can you tell us
• 25:37
  about that? I'm like what you call a classic
• 25:40
  science fiction. So those things from the 70s 80s
• 25:47
  and a lot of those Alters how passed away now but I was
• 25:53
  growing up watching those be movies like the time cop or
• 26:00
  terminate her and stuff like that.
• 26:02
  And after a while The third to be so repetitive and they are
• 26:10
  using those crochets again and again.
• 26:13
  So it's I think it's really hard to see.
• 26:15
  Original thoughts in movies but in all kinds of Science Fiction.
• 26:20
  Today there are some I can name a few but they are very rare.
• 26:26
  So this is why we decided with my friends to turn these cliches
• 26:30
  two songs. So cool make a kind of a parity
• 26:35
  from them. I like the idea school and what
• 26:39
  you were saying about. Yeah.
• 26:41
  I think it's a lot of people are maybe in the film industry.
• 26:44
  I just afraid to take a Gamble and new ideas like it's easier
• 26:48
  to just reboot something but you know what confuses me is like,
• 26:52
  sometimes they'll do something and then they'll just won't do
• 26:55
  anything with it. Like, I don't know like maybe
• 26:59
  it's just me but I am not hypocritical and things.
• 27:01
  But like I remember seeing like a RoboCop remake in late 2016 or
• 27:08
  something, and I thought it was exceptional.
• 27:11
  It wasn't as good as the original.
• 27:13
  Maybe that's just by us that I prefer the older one, I felt
• 27:16
  like it was very obvious time, you know?
• 27:18
  But the new one was good. I mean, they didn't try too.
• 27:22
  It was just broke up with a modern take and it worked and it
• 27:25
  was actually quite gritty which I liked and they did, they did a
• 27:28
  similar thing. They did a similar thing with Oh
• 27:33
  gosh. The remake of Total Recall.
• 27:38
  Same exact thing, totally different, but brilliant, and it
• 27:43
  and it paved the way for a sequel and they never did a
• 27:46
  sequel and same with that RoboCop movie.
• 27:49
  Same with Judge Dredd with Karl Urban, that was brilliant.
• 27:53
  I never did anything with that. It's like, you got so many of
• 27:56
  these movies and series that you could continue with and I guess
• 27:59
  it comes down to like or will it just didn't work enough at the
• 28:01
  box office. It's like I was watching.
• 28:05
  Judge, Dredd, the new one for like four times in the last
• 28:09
  week. It wasn't it was just in the TV
• 28:11
  and just turn it on, okay? The new Judge Dredd, it's that's
• 28:16
  amazing everything. The whole setup actors.
• 28:22
  That's a great goalie, truly. Yeah, it just baffles me
• 28:25
  sometimes like why they don't continue going with these but I
• 28:29
  guess for them. It's you know I mean it's just a
• 28:31
  business, isn't it? It's like if it doesn't make
• 28:33
  enough money, then don't bother. And it's like, that's such a
• 28:36
  shame because this is so much you can do with it and sometimes
• 28:39
  it just clicks. Like, I don't know, doesn't make
• 28:43
  any sense to me because it, but then sometimes you see that
• 28:46
  they'll pump money into something that they don't need
• 28:49
  to pump as much money into. Like, for instance, with the
• 28:52
  Batman movies, they nailed it with with bail and then When
• 28:57
  they move to Affleck like I felt like they didn't do anything
• 29:00
  different. They just kind of repeated the
• 29:02
  same thing which that know nothing against Africa.
• 29:07
  I think he did a good job acting.
• 29:08
  I just think I think the problem was more that they just tried to
• 29:12
  just redo not, why not redo, but it was just a continuation of
• 29:18
  what bail was doing, which is like they were trying to be
• 29:23
  epochal again. It is Who is such a great movie,
• 29:29
  like Christopher Nolan did baseless has been done, it's
• 29:32
  done, it's already done. That was an error.
• 29:35
  That was the 2000s. Batman, if you like, you know,
• 29:38
  those see the new Batman movie, the the most with passive
• 29:43
  Pattinson. Did you see that?
• 29:45
  I haven't seen it but I desperately want to see it like
• 29:47
  it, I just told you. Yeah.
• 29:49
  I've seen good Clips. I've score sounds amazing.
• 29:51
  I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go see it but that I think example,
• 29:55
  like, okay, I'm sorry. It just yet, but from what I've
• 29:57
  seen so far, that's new. That's different.
• 30:01
  It's different because just just like you, you said everything,
• 30:06
  like the whole adventure and life story of Batman was told
• 30:11
  like 10 times and they skip that now.
• 30:16
  So what do I like in Batman? Is his this kind of detective
• 30:21
  guy working with his brain and they did that.
• 30:25
  There is a case Case an actual case.
• 30:27
  So he's not trying to save the whole earth and fighting with
• 30:31
  Superman and with the okay, not the Avengers.
• 30:36
  But whoever say justice league, isn't it just as long that
• 30:40
  sometimes the Justice League sometimes with just wonder woman
• 30:43
  or whatever they find out, but sorry, but in this movie, he has
• 30:50
  a real case he has to solve, he has to find a killer and he's
• 30:55
  doing Detective. Work is going to places finding
• 30:59
  traces and finding out stuff about the person and watching
• 31:05
  videos, how shall I solve it? It's a great detective movie
• 31:11
  with Batman. And this is why I think it's
• 31:15
  great. I was it's almost three hours
• 31:19
  and I was watching it like opened eyes with wide eyes the
• 31:24
  whole time. It was it It's great.
• 31:26
  It's great, not perfect, but it's great.
• 31:31
  That's good. This should you should watch it.
• 31:33
  I will I will, when I get some time, I'm going to go and go see
• 31:35
  that. It doesn't surprise me that it's
• 31:39
  good, be honest. Because it's doing something
• 31:41
  different. That's the thing like you.
• 31:43
  I'm not saying there's not money to still be made in Batman.
• 31:46
  There's still plenty of stories. You can do is just if you repeat
• 31:48
  the same stories, people will get bored.
• 31:50
  And people won't like it. Because what I mean that's the
• 31:54
  big complaint right now in Hollywood.
• 31:56
  This is just, oh my God, so many remakes remake remake remake,
• 32:00
  and it's like a remake is or reboots fine, if you do
• 32:03
  something different, but they're, they're so scared to
• 32:06
  try something different. A lot of time that they just
• 32:09
  remake the same move, like do it the exact same way, which is a
• 32:13
  problem because it's like, it's already been done, you know.
• 32:18
  I mean I get the whole and I said this before, you know, the
• 32:21
  thing of like Reinventing something, or we making
• 32:25
  something, so it's appropriate to today and it reflects today,
• 32:28
  I get that but you still have to tweak things Justice till you
• 32:34
  can't. Like like that RoboCop example,
• 32:37
  I gave earlier it wasn't 1980s, RoboCop in 2016 or whatever it
• 32:43
  was. It was this is RoboCop in if it
• 32:45
  happened today you know, and that's the key.
• 32:49
  I think with, with Batman, it's been told, it's been told many
• 32:53
  times ever since cool. Well, cranky since the 60s, you
• 32:56
  had the campy, classic Batman, you had Michael Keaton Batman.
• 33:00
  Then you had all this stuff for Tim Burton and then then it goes
• 33:07
  George Clooney. I mean, even that as silly as it
• 33:11
  was, there was it was different. It was, you know, it's fun.
• 33:13
  I like that. I know it's terrible but I love
• 33:17
  it, you know. No, no, no that's okay.
• 33:19
  I mean come on back nipples is hilarious and the big Bank
• 33:24
  caught it was just part of the time.
• 33:26
  The 90s and the 2000s was a very strange time but Yeah, I mean I
• 33:33
  think the only other Batman story they could really tell
• 33:35
  other than diving into the comic stuff is to go for, like, I
• 33:41
  don't know which one it is. Maybe it's Brave and the Bold
• 33:44
  where you got old Batman and young Batman and old about that.
• 33:50
  I think Right now. The next step is do a movie with
• 33:57
  Pattinson and Michael Keaton together.
• 34:01
  That would make sense. And you know what?
• 34:03
  It would it would kind of work with with Keaton's Batman as
• 34:06
  well, because while there was that kooky kind of campy,
• 34:13
  classic villain stuff in his movies, he was still like a
• 34:16
  serious Batman and it would kind of what I don't know.
• 34:22
  I think that's the story you could tell and you know, do it
• 34:25
  now while Keaton's alive and it would it would just be great fan
• 34:29
  service, I think. And it would be fun than yeah.
• 34:31
  And yeah, clearly Pattinson did a good job with this.
• 34:35
  So yeah, why not. But they'll probably do a couple
• 34:38
  more mini movies within one day and we'll see, we'll see.
• 34:41
  But yeah, good stuff. Good stuff.
• 34:46
  Bring it back to you. You and your music.
• 34:47
  I'm intrigued and I've asked other musicians on my show this
• 34:52
  from, from different countries. What is it?
• 34:55
  Was it feel like for you writing music in English as opposed to
• 34:58
  your native language? Like is it what?
• 35:01
  Experience. Like, is it.
• 35:02
  Is it vastly different or like? Can you explain that to me?
• 35:09
  Absolutely is different in a way it is easier because I think a
• 35:15
  lot of people maybe including myself is speaking English on a
• 35:20
  basic level. I mean, okay, I have some exams
• 35:26
  and I'm stuck on serving as a translator, but still with the
• 35:30
  active words, I'm only using a few hundred maybe thousand words
• 35:37
  in English. And this makes this, this
• 35:41
  language I'm using and a lot of people, even Indians or Chinese
• 35:46
  or whatever. But more simple English.
• 35:51
  It made sense and this makes the event the text of the song,
• 35:57
  easier or more simple. And maybe for me, it feels like
• 36:04
  chewing a rubber gum, or bubblegum aside of writing song
• 36:13
  in my native language because in that, I'm more serious, I'm
• 36:17
  making contemporary poems to grandson.
• 36:21
  Songs. And those things are about death
• 36:24
  or What's the law of War? The Fulfillment in life.
• 36:32
  What kind of contemporary stuff but it is English songs.
• 36:36
  I can go on a funny way or the fun way I can just put this
• 36:42
  simple English words together. And it makes me a little bit
• 36:49
  more free doesn't make sense. All right, get it, I get it.
• 36:54
  I think it's just for me, I find it interesting because I've
• 36:58
  written music in other languages.
• 37:00
  A few times here and there and it doesn't feel quite.
• 37:05
  Me. It's like, I don't know.
• 37:07
  It's like it to me. It makes perfect sense.
• 37:10
  When you say, I write the serious stuff in my own language
• 37:14
  and then something a bit different in the foreign
• 37:16
  language. It's like, it makes sense to me
• 37:18
  because it's like, it feels awkward with the other language,
• 37:22
  like, when I because I lived in Europe for a few years in a
• 37:25
  country called Estonia. And whenever I spoke Estonian, I
• 37:30
  remember kind of I felt comfortable with it at one point
• 37:36
  and then, you know, it was kind of funny to me, but I I never
• 37:39
  kind of got over how strange it was talking in another language,
• 37:43
  and but it began to make me understand what it's like,
• 37:47
  especially when you speak another language consistently.
• 37:51
  It's like it's it doesn't feel like you it's almost like it's
• 37:55
  almost like a weird lie in a way.
• 37:57
  It's like I don't know like And I remember saying this to other
• 38:03
  people and some people would get it and other people will be
• 38:05
  like, well, your honor but like I remember talking to a Russian
• 38:08
  friend of mine when I was working over there and I explain
• 38:12
  this to him and he was like, I don't know, I speak Russian
• 38:14
  speaking English, same thing, right?
• 38:16
  And I was like, huh, so I guess it's different for everyone but
• 38:20
  I'm using English in my professional life and I show you
• 38:24
  as well and also as a translator so I feel it's like second
• 38:29
  nature but I feel the same You mentioned with German II know,
• 38:34
  basic German and I'm also doing translations from German, but it
• 38:39
  is so different from me. It it, it is really another
• 38:44
  word. And if I'm speaking in German, I
• 38:48
  think it's a lie. Nobody would think that I'm
• 38:51
  Andrea German. Okay.
• 38:54
  I have an accent in English as well, but I can, I can make
• 38:58
  myself more comfortable in English than in German strange
• 39:03
  for me as well. Like when you begin to
• 39:05
  understand another language like and you can hear it in the
• 39:11
  background or something and you don't understand it like hundred
• 39:16
  percent but you do at the same time like when I when I was in
• 39:21
  Estonia I was I was filming this movie and I was like listening
• 39:26
  to because most people inside were Estonian and Our production
• 39:36
  assistant that was like she's like a more senior level person
• 39:40
  was like, coordinating our Stern us, what to do excetera.
• 39:44
  And she knew that I was foreign I was English but she also knew
• 39:48
  that I was living there and I understood Estonian to a degree
• 39:53
  in she'd often come up to me and be like, did you get that?
• 39:55
  And I was like, yep. And it was weird because I was
• 39:58
  like, how did I get that? Like I just, I just sit there
• 40:02
  and I'd be listening. And I just a huh.
• 40:05
  It's like yeah, I don't know. It's like the penny drops and
• 40:10
  then suddenly it starts clicking but I think it comes from
• 40:13
  practice. Doesn't have this is weird like
• 40:15
  because I always knew like this isn't, this isn't my language,
• 40:20
  but I understand it and it speak it enough that it's become
• 40:24
  natural but it's like Never quite the same.
• 40:27
  I don't know. It's fun though.
• 40:29
  But yeah, they were not cursing or using bad language is right?
• 40:34
  No, just a simple everyday stuff.
• 40:37
  Yeah, I know just like instructions.
• 40:40
  What we were supposed to be on next and stuff?
• 40:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I learned it to it to a
• 40:47
  fair degree like quite conversational loves I was ever
• 40:50
  there for about three years. I got it, but I think it's it's
• 40:56
  interested just bringing it back to music.
• 40:58
  I think it's very interesting when you, when you begin to
• 41:01
  write music or poetry or something.
• 41:02
  And in another language It's like, because poetry and music
• 41:07
  is very deeply. Personal thing, isn't it?
• 41:09
  It's like a extension of yourself and you're
• 41:14
  communicating ideas and feelings within that.
• 41:17
  And I think to to write in a foreign language, you got to
• 41:22
  kind of feel Comfortable in it to a degree.
• 41:27
  That you're able to convey, what you want to convey and be.
• 41:34
  Well, I find myself repeating myself but you feel comfortable
• 41:37
  doing it. Like, I don't know, like it like
• 41:40
  for instance, I tried to write a few songs in Estonian and it
• 41:42
  just didn't work. Like it just seemed very and I
• 41:45
  think part of that is just I just didn't have a strong enough
• 41:48
  command of the language, but also I think it was more that it
• 41:52
  just I realized that. You just you have to kind of
• 41:56
  feel comfortable enough to be able to articulate yourself and
• 41:59
  communicate your message comfortably.
• 42:02
  I'm just going to keep repeating myself here but that's that's
• 42:04
  the that's the deal. That's how it is I think.
• 42:08
  Yeah interesting experience with regards to your music.
• 42:15
  I mean let's say you get some traction with it and it goes
• 42:19
  somewhere are you would you want to stay?
• 42:25
  pendant, or would you be interested in sign and move the
• 42:28
  label or something like Where do you stand on that whole
• 42:32
  argument? I tried to look up a few labels
• 42:36
  but I don't think I have to value a stuff for them.
• 42:41
  So I understand laborers are now searching for things like do
• 42:45
  Alibaba, or You Bon Jovi, but everything what Bon Jovi has
• 42:52
  right now. So the fans The whole catalog.
• 42:58
  I didn't see too much labels interested in.
• 43:01
  You very tentative Standalone guy with two kids who is sitting
• 43:08
  at home and writing his songs. So I turned I think I would go
• 43:14
  with the independent, you never know.
• 43:16
  I mean I think you're underselling yourself like
• 43:19
  Anyone can make anyone has the potential to make it, you know.
• 43:23
  I don't think that any of those things stand against you.
• 43:26
  I think it's more, it's more a case of What you have to
• 43:31
  contribute and clicking with people clicking, you know?
• 43:35
  So many factors isn't it? It's clicking with people.
• 43:39
  It's clicking. with like, Even your country or like a
• 43:49
  particular movement is going on, it could be timing.
• 43:52
  You can be so many other factors but I don't think that you know
• 43:56
  those things hold you back or anything because but you see
• 43:58
  people of all ages making it. But I suppose it depends how you
• 44:02
  define success and what you're looking to achieve and stuff
• 44:06
  like that. Like you mentioned a few pop
• 44:08
  artists there. I mean, I don't think your goal
• 44:10
  is to become a pop artist in the Army and you are dimensional.
• 44:13
  I'm sorry. You like sort of rock and grunge
• 44:16
  and all these kind of things. And there's still a market for
• 44:18
  that very huge Market worldwide. And, you know, I think it's A
• 44:24
  lot, I think it's a combination of a bit of luck and
• 44:28
  perseverance, and just kind of offering something a little
• 44:32
  different then maybe what's being kind of offered already or
• 44:36
  taking an existing idea and kind of like transforming it a little
• 44:40
  bit, you know? But I always say, yeah, never
• 44:43
  undersell yourself, my friend, there's always, there's always a
• 44:46
  chance with it. You know, you can next up, could
• 44:49
  be, as you mentioned, clicking with people.
• 44:51
  So collaborating Other artists more.
• 44:55
  I think that would be a good Next Step.
• 44:58
  So I'm looking around for that best of luck with that.
• 45:05
  One thing I didn't really sort of delve into there with.
• 45:07
  You is, obviously you mentioned that with what you're doing.
• 45:11
  Now, you've kind of sort of come back into this, you know, you've
• 45:14
  had kids. You you've got like maybe a
• 45:17
  little bit more time on your hands.
• 45:18
  You're working on these projects and you're pushing it.
• 45:21
  But is this something? Like when did you start getting
• 45:25
  into music like for the first time?
• 45:26
  Was it something in your younger years and then you sort of just
• 45:29
  put on the back burner for a while or is it always been in
• 45:33
  the presence in your life at the University?
• 45:37
  I had a good friend and we were writing songs with each other
• 45:43
  and I mean drinking a lot. Hey and after drinking we were
• 45:49
  writing shitty music and and shitty lives but it So much fun.
• 45:54
  I didn't have such fun since that.
• 45:59
  So, in just nine, we were writing six or seven songs and
• 46:05
  using do-it-yourself stuff at home and drinking his mother's
• 46:11
  liquor, we found in the cellar. Stuff like that.
• 46:17
  Sometimes we invited others and they thought it was good.
• 46:24
  So, it was kind of a funky thing and the fun Dimension.
• 46:31
  Maybe it's so good and we didn't care about writing.
• 46:35
  Good stuff. We were, we were translating U2
• 46:39
  songs to Hungary and or cool leader on our songs to Hungarian
• 46:44
  and translating it badly. Because both of us were students
• 46:50
  in the translation part of the university.
• 46:54
  And We were learning how to translate in a perfect way.
• 46:59
  So at the weekend, if you're doing it badly and it was so
• 47:05
  fun, so much fun. And after that, we just had our
• 47:11
  Yoko Ono. So, we split and life happened.
• 47:20
  I had my kids both first started working so.
• 47:25
  So we never came up at the And this is why I went solo after a
• 47:30
  while. I doing just these songs in my
• 47:33
  attic recording everything with this laptop and this is how it
• 47:41
  turned out, just like a process of rediscovery.
• 47:45
  Almost, it's quite interesting but now it's taking on a bit of
• 47:49
  a new owners. So it's like you're no longer
• 47:52
  that that teen boy mocking around a man of responsibility.
• 47:57
  He's but the same fire is still there.
• 48:03
  Absolutely awesome. And that's, that's really
• 48:05
  refreshing to hear, man. When one thing I think I'm
• 48:12
  interested in hearing about is is, have you ever played any
• 48:16
  shows that live shows, like, performances with what you do?
• 48:20
  As I started to put this task together, just as covid started.
• 48:25
  So I don't really know you planning to Maybe, yes, yes.
• 48:34
  Yes, there is a geek series all around the world that may be in
• 48:39
  your town as well. Which town are you in?
• 48:43
  Not line? No, I live in Manchester in the
• 48:46
  Eucharist, maybe, because mattress, that is kind of a big
• 48:51
  town. Maybe that is this thing called
• 48:54
  so far. So songs from a room so far.
• 48:59
  I'm not sure on that one. I said, it's an abbreviation
• 49:02
  abbreviation. So what they are doing is
• 49:08
  putting Back songs to the meaningful listening.
• 49:13
  So they Reserve small places like libraries or directors or
• 49:21
  galleries with 20 people or 80 people or small gig and how they
• 49:31
  organized this. They don't say who the performer
• 49:35
  will be. You only have the date and you
• 49:40
  sign up on a sheet and then it's an international sheet.
• 49:45
  So yeah, you have to look it up. But you sign up and two hours
• 49:50
  before the gig you receive where it will be.
• 49:55
  Oh my God. And sometimes it is a bring your
• 50:00
  own beer so you can bring whatever you would like to
• 50:05
  because it's not a venue. It's really a church or library
• 50:09
  or whatever regardin a private Garden or university room and
• 50:17
  you go there and they ask you to really listen to the songs.
• 50:22
  Turn your camera off, turn it on your mobile off.
• 50:25
  You you have to go not really off but just don't pick it up,
• 50:30
  don't scroll it don't check your insta or whatever.
• 50:36
  The usually have two or three performers and they don't tell
• 50:43
  you who they are. So they come to the stage and,
• 50:47
  you know it by that, of course, at the beginning, they write the
• 50:51
  names up because these performers are usually upcoming
• 50:54
  you performance. So they say, okay, today we have
• 50:59
  this performer from Manchester or from another city and
• 51:04
  sometimes these performers Act these gigs to their tools.
• 51:09
  So they have a free night. They sign up for the show and
• 51:14
  they can have a good recording because these shows usually
• 51:17
  usually recorded mostly one song.
• 51:20
  Only one sang, and they have good pictures and these people
• 51:24
  listening to them. So it's not about the money but
• 51:28
  for the gig itself and they don't tell you the second artist
• 51:33
  and the until his coming up to the stage and Even the served.
• 51:38
  So the whole night is a big surprise.
• 51:42
  I love that idea, I think that's brilliant.
• 51:45
  Just like in case of fiber it can go wrong.
• 51:49
  But do be it would be brilliant in a way.
• 51:52
  I mean it depends, doesn't it? I mean I think, I think if you
• 51:55
  go there with a kind of attitude of like we're here to have a
• 51:58
  good laugh and have a drink and you know what I mean?
• 52:01
  Like I can I'd be up for this. I think this would be good
• 52:04
  because this is how we do with my wife and I'm with a friend,
• 52:07
  just go there and let's see what happens.
• 52:10
  And oh my god I've been there like 10 times and two or three
• 52:14
  times. One of the performers were
• 52:16
  really really shitty. You gotta tell ya like why won't
• 52:20
  the wrong was good. So when they were bad like what
• 52:23
  was the worst thing that you saw?
• 52:25
  Like just the worst? Aloka is a local band, okay?
• 52:34
  And so they have an English name and they are saying in English,
• 52:41
  some kind of metal and I don't want to say the name, but but
• 52:47
  the word better. Like the meaning of best, it's
• 52:52
  not the same, but in that meaning it's in their name and
• 52:56
  they are like, it's not the best.
• 52:59
  It's the worst, very good but what went wrong like, well why
• 53:07
  was it, why was it not the best? They said these games are
• 53:12
  usually acoustic so you have to prepare for that because the the
• 53:17
  space is small and you don't have to Magic ear.
• 53:21
  Sometimes sometimes they have the organize it somehow.
• 53:25
  So this metal band was coming up and they said, okay, we're a
• 53:29
  metal band playing with distorted guitars and really
• 53:33
  loudly. But now this is an acoustic gig.
• 53:37
  So it won't sound too good. But I have to say that the songs
• 53:42
  were not good themselves, they were boring.
• 53:47
  They were not written. Well, There are a lot of the
• 53:51
  same words repeating again, and again.
• 53:55
  And even the songs, sounded the same.
• 53:58
  And the guy was trying to sing screaming with an acoustic
• 54:02
  guitar working. Well, oh no, they found that.
• 54:07
  It's not so good, so they said, okay, okay, this was not our
• 54:11
  best gig. So let us show you how we
• 54:14
  usually do. So they asked the organizers to
• 54:17
  play something. Spotify, how they usually sound
• 54:23
  and it was cringey feeling watching them.
• 54:27
  And there was a standing there and the screaming was coming
• 54:29
  from Spotify and No, no. Say I don't think it was well
• 54:36
  organized from them or where plants.
• 54:38
  So like, okay, we are this band but we can sing Wonderwall for
• 54:43
  one time because we have musicians.
• 54:45
  And here are two acoustic guitars, why not?
• 54:49
  Or just take one of their songs and turn it to an acoustic
• 54:52
  version? They could have come up with so
• 54:56
  many things but they didn't it's like when a comedian bombs on
• 55:00
  stage And they don't take it. Well that's what it sounds like.
• 55:04
  Like, I don't know why but it reminded me of this comedy gig I
• 55:08
  went to years ago, we're okay so it was like a work thing.
• 55:14
  Okay. So we'd rented out this place it
• 55:17
  was in Leicester Square and we'd rented out this venue.
• 55:20
  It's pretty cool, you know, there's like 20 of us from work
• 55:24
  and Rule there to see a comedy show.
• 55:27
  I was young, I think it's like 18, 19.
• 55:31
  It was, it was fun. Like, it was a fun night and
• 55:33
  like, not all the comedians were bad.
• 55:35
  Some of them were really good actually.
• 55:37
  But there was there was two comedians that came on that were
• 55:41
  both bad for different reasons. The first one blessing he came
• 55:49
  on, he was the very first comedian and he came up with
• 55:52
  loads of energy news to shouting.
• 55:54
  Like hey, yeah, this is what about this, right?
• 56:00
  Crickets silence. He's like yeah.
• 56:04
  But you know how this goes to this goes and here's the amazing
• 56:07
  thing like at no point did his energy level drop?
• 56:10
  Because you'd think after doing a half an hour set that at some
• 56:15
  point, it would begin to become apparent that this sets not
• 56:19
  working and you're not gonna get a laugh, he just kept going
• 56:24
  which I respect, you know, you just see it through, right?
• 56:28
  But it was, It was painful and we I think we're part of my soul
• 56:33
  died in that moment. Just watching him just bum and I
• 56:39
  think a bit his soul left his body while he was you know,
• 56:42
  pretending that he was really into this.
• 56:45
  I think inside he's like this is terrible.
• 56:47
  This is terrible but he just kept going but fair play.
• 56:50
  I say this is the thing out of the two comedians that were bad
• 56:53
  that night he at least had a good attitude because he was
• 56:56
  like thank you very much. Everyone give me, you know golf
• 56:59
  clap. And then he, he left the stage
• 57:02
  and it was okay. But then there was a guy From
• 57:06
  Scotland. And here's the thing, Scottish
• 57:10
  people, brilliant. Very funny.
• 57:12
  I was like, oh well, this is this is easy, man.
• 57:14
  This is come on, he's Scottish, I mean, this is going to be
• 57:18
  hilarious. Not I know I'm not saying like
• 57:21
  laughs. It's Gottesman.
• 57:22
  I mean just Scottish people. Have a good sense of humor.
• 57:24
  It's quite dry quite sarcastic. You know quite similar to
• 57:29
  English humor but sometimes they can be a bit rougher with the
• 57:31
  jokes you know maybe a bit more swearing, you know, like it's I
• 57:36
  don't know, like, I like Scotch people but this particular
• 57:40
  Scottish fellow bad attitude. He came in, he was tall guy as
• 57:45
  well. He's probably like 62 63 and he
• 57:49
  came on stage and my only guess at this point is, it's maybe
• 57:54
  he's done a couple of shows. He's not done a many, he's just
• 57:57
  starting out maybe and here's the thing.
• 58:03
  When AB it's not working normally you.
• 58:06
  Just move on you know if it's not working the first time maybe
• 58:09
  you tried a second time. If they don't buy it's a bit
• 58:12
  like fishing. You know you go you you keep
• 58:13
  casting Your Rod and you get nothing you move on.
• 58:16
  You move to a different swim, right.
• 58:18
  But he just wasn't getting the picture and he kept doing this
• 58:21
  bit about Hitler. And you think doing jokes about
• 58:26
  Hitler would be pretty, pretty straightforward.
• 58:28
  Pretty easy stuff. You know, usually get a cheap
• 58:30
  laugh out of it but somehow he just I can't and I can't
• 58:35
  remember for the life. Be what he said, but he was
• 58:38
  trying to make a comparison between something and Hitler and
• 58:42
  it just wasn't sitting and the audience was dead and he got
• 58:47
  heckled a little bit, nothing bad, but just like, you know, a
• 58:49
  little bit of a haircut and normally comedians should be
• 58:52
  able to take that in their stride.
• 58:55
  And as long as it's not mean, maybe they can even use it to
• 58:58
  their advantage, you know? But he instead of like taking it
• 59:02
  in good to his good stride, he decided to do Just assault
• 59:07
  verbally, assault, someone in the audience, who happened to
• 59:10
  be? It was a manager of mine
• 59:13
  actually, but it was a bit more. Like, I'm everyone's friend that
• 59:17
  kind of guy and he was just sitting there just looking at
• 59:21
  this guy. Just let what, what is this?
• 59:24
  What? And so he stuck the got the
• 59:26
  comedian starts attacking this guy in the audience.
• 59:27
  He's like, oh yeah, we're all. What, what's, what's your
• 59:32
  problem baldy? Like was, why is it so funny?
• 59:35
  What what, what, what have you got to say?
• 59:38
  And then the guys he doesn't say anything, he's just laughing it
• 59:41
  and he's like, well, you laughing out with you all for
• 59:43
  what you got to say and he just goes, you're not funny mate.
• 59:48
  Crickets just light laughing were like, oh this is getting
• 59:51
  awkward. It just, it got to it just kept
• 59:54
  escalating and escalating to the point where it was just awkward
• 59:57
  and we would just all praying that he would just leave and go
• 1:00:01
  away. But he was getting more and more
• 1:00:04
  aggressive. And then by the end of it, he
• 1:00:06
  turned around and he caught the guy in the audience.
• 1:00:11
  The c-word I'm not going to say that on the podcast, but the
• 1:00:15
  most offensive word you can say in the English language, In my
• 1:00:18
  estimation, the c word which I thought was just I was as
• 1:00:23
  intense, man. Come on lie, you don't even know
• 1:00:25
  this guy's just like a light Heckle, you know, I understand
• 1:00:29
  that the bigs gone badly for you, but come on and then he
• 1:00:33
  just turned around. He's like you're the worst
• 1:00:36
  audience I've ever heard. Fuck you and then just won't
• 1:00:39
  tell stage and then we will proceed it to cheer and clap
• 1:00:42
  when he left. Do you happen to know that
• 1:00:51
  whether he is going on as a medium?
• 1:01:01
  I would hope he did even that or he just had a better act so so
• 1:01:05
  he didn't turn out to be famous. I don't I don't I don't think
• 1:01:09
  so, I don't think I've no I've not seen a Scottish comedian
• 1:01:12
  that looks like him but I don't know maybe if I do I'll let you
• 1:01:15
  know. Just on the themes of people
• 1:01:18
  dying, like onstage. Like what you said there, it
• 1:01:21
  sounds a bit. Like they knew they were crap on
• 1:01:24
  stage. So then they were like, oh no,
• 1:01:27
  where were wait? Wait, we were just screwed.
• 1:01:30
  No, no, no. Turn on the spotlight, turn on
• 1:01:31
  the Spotify, get someone on the Spotify and then everyone's just
• 1:01:34
  like, this is awkward. Can you, can you take the
• 1:01:40
  microphone away? Can we cut them microphone?
• 1:01:43
  Come on. This is awkward man.
• 1:01:44
  Come no. And then everyone.
• 1:01:47
  Just like yeah. What do you?
• 1:01:50
  What do you think? What do you think of it?
• 1:01:51
  Is it good? Do you like it?
• 1:01:53
  Do you like it? It's all right.
• 1:01:59
  What they were actually saying. Do you like it?
• 1:02:01
  Do you like the song? What do you think the feeling
• 1:02:06
  and the vibe was the same and they take other, I think they
• 1:02:12
  did bad for themselves because even later on usually derive, I
• 1:02:16
  see the name on. The gig list or a big festival
• 1:02:21
  or whatever. I just think about that case.
• 1:02:25
  And well you goes 50 people who are there can recall that night
• 1:02:34
  when you can get better. Everyone has a bad gig.
• 1:02:36
  I mean enough, I've had bad shows, you know, everyone has a
• 1:02:39
  bad show but yeah, you're that attitude is not great, you know,
• 1:02:42
  you don't want to have that kind of attitude, I mean, cracky,
• 1:02:44
  I've seen it I've told this on the podcast before I've seen
• 1:02:47
  big, It's do it. I once saw DragonForce perform
• 1:02:52
  terribly, they were absolutely terrible and this was at the
• 1:02:56
  very height of their popularity in might 2007 right around
• 1:03:00
  Guitar Hero days like and it was a big little mini Festival.
• 1:03:04
  She had like, trivia Shadows, full Arch, Enemy Machine.
• 1:03:08
  Head's, great lineup and DragonForce was there.
• 1:03:11
  They were like second or third on know, I think they would.
• 1:03:16
  Just before Trivium as he Trivium with the headliners and
• 1:03:21
  just the worst attitude ever. And here's the thing drama was
• 1:03:26
  okay. Pretty good basis was good,
• 1:03:29
  Herman, Li was good as you'd expect.
• 1:03:31
  But the other guitarist, terrible, I do its Lucky first
• 1:03:35
  day by playing the guitar or something, and the singer was
• 1:03:39
  just awful and we just started booing the crowd.
• 1:03:42
  Just tied, boo it. Now they were just I'm sorry to
• 1:03:46
  say it, but they wish it. They would, it was a bad.
• 1:03:48
  I don't know if it's a bad gig or whatever, but they were just
• 1:03:50
  terrible and it almost felt like a lie, like everything we'd seen
• 1:03:54
  and heard about was a lie, kind of thing.
• 1:03:56
  And then they, they play about two songs and then they just
• 1:04:00
  look who you can't boo us. Oh, you're the worst crowd we've
• 1:04:04
  ever had and then they just dump their instruments on the floor
• 1:04:08
  and walked off and we all cheered and then Trivium came on
• 1:04:11
  says they crash any No, I think the vocalist for his microphone
• 1:04:20
  on the floor and we'll tough but the rest of it as you do funnily
• 1:04:24
  enough, the rest of the band were really professional about
• 1:04:26
  it and just said Thank you and walked off stage like nicely but
• 1:04:31
  I think the guitarist a rhythm guitarist and singer walked off
• 1:04:35
  in a half. I remember that.
• 1:04:37
  It was very surreal to witness that especially from like real
• 1:04:41
  because it's one thing about that band that you said that
• 1:04:43
  probably just starting out but Enforces, this big band.
• 1:04:46
  Like, you know, you don't expect that from professionals but I
• 1:04:50
  guess it happens from time to time.
• 1:04:54
  It is what it is. In any case, we will afford, you
• 1:04:59
  mentioned that you have a job in IIT.
• 1:05:02
  What do you want? Exactly.
• 1:05:03
  Do you do in it? I'm a software tester.
• 1:05:08
  As you mentioned liking, my own stuff, in my professional life,
• 1:05:12
  I thought it would do that. So many people in ITI, sometimes
• 1:05:17
  they are wondering that boats and artificial intelligence is
• 1:05:21
  taking testing over. It is starting to happening but
• 1:05:28
  not really. So we see some tools after
• 1:05:33
  meetings testing and sometimes they are not working out well.
• 1:05:37
  So I'm telling you all this because I don't know how long I
• 1:05:42
  can do testing. I've been doing it for 14 years
• 1:05:45
  now and I'm not sure I can do that for another 20 years.
• 1:05:51
  Maybe 10 ish, But let's see how it will turn out.
• 1:05:57
  But just like you mentioned. I'm happy in my professional
• 1:06:00
  life and this is why I do music as a hobby only.
• 1:06:06
  Well, this is interesting because if you already know that
• 1:06:09
  potentially your position could get Replaced by AI, which I
• 1:06:14
  think is a danger for many of us.
• 1:06:15
  I, I sense the same thing will happen with marketing one day,
• 1:06:19
  to some extent, which is my main field.
• 1:06:25
  Do you do you have like other things you could move to, or do
• 1:06:28
  you have ideas, plans for other things?
• 1:06:29
  You can move into Is the obvious one learning out how to handle
• 1:06:35
  these tools and how to manage them.
• 1:06:38
  So, at this point, it seems that manual testers and ultimately
• 1:06:43
  testers working together or as a person can use automated tools
• 1:06:48
  as re tools and not like our rulers or Gods, but more like
• 1:06:56
  helping towards. But I'm also until Interested in
• 1:07:01
  business analyzer. So requirement Gathering and
• 1:07:05
  talking to clients and stuff like that.
• 1:07:08
  So that can also be a future plan, but right now automation
• 1:07:12
  seems to be a viable plan. Yeah, I mean I think there are
• 1:07:17
  yeah you always need to monitor automated system. 100% that law
• 1:07:20
  is need here. What this is, it's an
• 1:07:23
  interesting consideration, isn't it?
• 1:07:25
  Like how much how many human jobs can be fully replaced by a,
• 1:07:29
  I'm not sure that all cat. Because even so you take like
• 1:07:32
  sales as you said, like, as an example sales or talking to
• 1:07:35
  customers, you're always going to want to be able to talk to
• 1:07:38
  human beings. You can't tell me that people
• 1:07:41
  would be happy to look into a, I fully even if it can be made to
• 1:07:45
  sound like a hundred percent, like a human, it's like, it's
• 1:07:49
  not the same, it's just not the same.
• 1:07:51
  No, no. And in this field, you need a
• 1:07:53
  lot of intuition. So a lot of times customers know
• 1:07:58
  what they think they know they want.
• 1:08:01
  They don't know what they really want.
• 1:08:03
  So they are coming. Like, please give me software
• 1:08:06
  which does this this, this. And we asked, okay, how shall
• 1:08:10
  the button behave? What should the color be like?
• 1:08:14
  And they say, well, okay, I don't know what they are, we
• 1:08:21
  don't even have this conversation.
• 1:08:22
  You just can't come up with the product and based on that, they
• 1:08:26
  can say, Okay? Replace this, let's change this.
• 1:08:29
  Oh, this works really well. I like like this.
• 1:08:32
  With an AI at the current moment.
• 1:08:36
  Cannot come up with these intuitions and and predictions.
• 1:08:40
  And that's the thing. Like I think even if it could
• 1:08:43
  even if Amir negatively one day a will.
• 1:08:45
  But I think there were just some human things that you can't
• 1:08:49
  replace at all, you know, like I mean, unless you can give AI in
• 1:08:55
  motion. I don't really see how you
• 1:08:58
  could. For example, let's say we're
• 1:09:01
  talking. In service and I have a really
• 1:09:04
  bad complaint. I'm angry, I'm just incensed
• 1:09:08
  with how I've been treated. Okay, AI is not going to be able
• 1:09:13
  to calm me down or make me happy.
• 1:09:15
  If anything is going to further infuriate me that I'm having to
• 1:09:18
  speak to AI as opposed to a human being.
• 1:09:21
  And I'm not going to want to get to a human being and in the same
• 1:09:24
  way that look, I mean you got automated systems now, automated
• 1:09:27
  phone calls. For example, that I don't about
• 1:09:30
  yourself but I for me, I find that Infuriating.
• 1:09:33
  I just want to get to a human being.
• 1:09:34
  Like I often find myself grabbing the phone and going,
• 1:09:39
  talk to human, talk to person, talk operate at like I just and
• 1:09:44
  and it'll keep saying like do you mean this?
• 1:09:47
  And I'm like, no talk. And then eventually you get what
• 1:09:50
  you want and then you talk to someone and they're like, I'll
• 1:09:52
  have you been on our website at you spoken to this.
• 1:09:54
  Have you done this? I might know, I just want to
• 1:09:55
  talk to someone so I get this done.
• 1:09:58
  So it's you know what I mean? And sometimes even something
• 1:10:00
  simple like I go into a bank and they're like, oh you know you
• 1:10:05
  don't have to queue up you can you can just put your money in
• 1:10:09
  that machine over there and it does it automatically for you
• 1:10:12
  and it's like maybe I want to talk to a human being and just
• 1:10:14
  have that reassured nurse that I've seen you.
• 1:10:19
  Make this deposit for me and I'm happy now.
• 1:10:23
  Because what if that computer breaks, which is very viable, it
• 1:10:26
  could or there's a software malfunction or it gets hacked,
• 1:10:29
  which is a very real possibility in this day and age, you know,
• 1:10:31
  it's like, So that is a good to just talk to a human and get
• 1:10:35
  what you want. You know, like like sorry, I
• 1:10:37
  just jump in on this because I keep getting ideas with this.
• 1:10:40
  But, you know, when you go into a supermarket and, you know,
• 1:10:43
  there's all these self-checkouts, now, it's like,
• 1:10:45
  don't get me wrong, I love self-checkouts.
• 1:10:47
  I think it's brilliant, but you can't tell me, it would be great
• 1:10:50
  to fully just have only self checkouts and no staff.
• 1:10:56
  Like, that's know, sometimes you need and want to talk to a human
• 1:11:00
  being or as you say, you don't know.
• 1:11:03
  You want maybe there's things you've missed out on because I
• 1:11:06
  can't count how many times I've been doing my shopping and then
• 1:11:10
  like a member of staff goes. Oh by the way you can get this
• 1:11:12
  this this like as an offer or something and I'm like oh I
• 1:11:15
  missed that. And yeah or we got this for you.
• 1:11:18
  We've got that for you and they'll be wrong sometimes
• 1:11:20
  annoying but sometimes they actually save you some money or
• 1:11:22
  they make your life easier or whatever you know.
• 1:11:27
  So, yeah, sometimes I do concert and see work for companies like
• 1:11:32
  how they website should behave. And I always say, could you
• 1:11:38
  please turn that chatbot off because nobody nobody loves
• 1:11:43
  chatbots and they say really, we were spending so much and it
• 1:11:47
  sure is true. Don't they don't really work.
• 1:11:50
  I hate them. I tell you what gun.
• 1:11:54
  I always try to test them and they don't really work.
• 1:11:58
  Yes, it's the same for me. Like I think I actually wrote
• 1:12:01
  funny enough. I was writing some articles
• 1:12:04
  about Something related to this which I think I actually wrote
• 1:12:08
  an article back chat box at one point and I was thinking as I
• 1:12:10
  was writing it that the best way to use a chatbot these days is
• 1:12:15
  kind of like a referral service thing like a Q&A style thing.
• 1:12:19
  So you still get people to go through the questions to answer
• 1:12:22
  it kind of like a form but you still have the end goal of
• 1:12:25
  getting them to an operator in many cases or like getting them
• 1:12:29
  the information they want. The reason that you you use a
• 1:12:33
  chatbot is you're trying Do one or two things.
• 1:12:36
  You're either trying to get more information so you need your
• 1:12:39
  questions answered or book an appointment or something like
• 1:12:44
  that. So those are your two main
• 1:12:45
  options, okay? If you want to book an
• 1:12:47
  appointment you might be able to yeah, to probably do that
• 1:12:52
  without the need to talk to a human or whatever.
• 1:12:56
  Getting the information you want from the web from the chat bot.
• 1:13:00
  In many cases, you can get what you need but there's a lot of
• 1:13:03
  times when you can't and a good chat.
• 1:13:05
  Not that one that set up. Well, we'll keep trying to
• 1:13:08
  answer your question and if it can't then it gives you like you
• 1:13:12
  need to call this number or will refer you to this or we're
• 1:13:15
  referring you to into a real person.
• 1:13:18
  Perfect brilliant. That's exactly what.
• 1:13:21
  You're a good chap. I should do.
• 1:13:22
  But I've seen so many where it's like, oh we can't answer your
• 1:13:26
  question or please refer to the website and it's like, this is
• 1:13:30
  just I just I log off the website and go somewhere else
• 1:13:34
  when I see that because it's like they I really don't care.
• 1:13:37
  Yeah, they just, they don't care.
• 1:13:38
  They've not put enough effort into it.
• 1:13:39
  And that that's the best way to use a chap.
• 1:13:42
  I reckon, because it's, I just see it like a standard form.
• 1:13:47
  It's just a form style thing that can.
• 1:13:51
  I think sometimes it impresses me the like when it has
• 1:13:54
  genuinely picked up enough information.
• 1:13:56
  It can usually point you in the right direction, pretty quickly
• 1:13:59
  based on what you input. So, sometimes certain chatbots
• 1:14:02
  are better than others, but sometimes they're just awful and
• 1:14:10
  Infuriating. I think is probably the way I
• 1:14:12
  would put it. I mean, but again, I guess I
• 1:14:16
  guess it depends how you program them and to what extent and how
• 1:14:19
  much effort you put into it. go give you some sort of serious
• 1:14:28
  questions now that I like to ask my guests What's the best advice
• 1:14:35
  you've ever received? Wow.
• 1:14:49
  I, if it's not a relative or a friend, but so when my children
• 1:14:58
  were born, we had a lot of problems managing their time and
• 1:15:04
  to do this, when to do that and somehow, I found this book, it's
• 1:15:09
  called How to manage your life, so not time directly.
• 1:15:15
  But your whole life and it's about this is written by Alan
• 1:15:23
  locking and it is sold on Amazon, millions of copies, it
• 1:15:29
  is from the 80s. And there are so many good
• 1:15:34
  advices and practical advice is in there that we really
• 1:15:39
  restructured our life And in my professional life as well, like
• 1:15:46
  horizontal planning, check your calendar and and if you really
• 1:15:50
  want to send the chief something you booked time for it in your
• 1:15:53
  calendar and suffering stuff like that.
• 1:15:57
  So this book how to control your life, I think.
• 1:16:02
  It is something many people should read.
• 1:16:05
  Of course, there are outdated things like calendar is
• 1:16:09
  suggesting pen and paper. Calendar, am not using that.
• 1:16:12
  I'm using Google Calendar now, but some people something's
• 1:16:18
  changed from the 80s but not too much like how our brain works.
• 1:16:24
  And he's really good with that. Berlin and I agree with you on
• 1:16:29
  the whole calendar thing as well.
• 1:16:31
  I used to have a, add a calendar last year, physical one, but
• 1:16:36
  then when it came to this year, and I was using both, and then I
• 1:16:41
  was like, ah, I sort of you had to synchronize.
• 1:16:45
  Yeah. And I would get lazy and forget
• 1:16:47
  to to write in my calendar, but I would always update the Google
• 1:16:51
  Calendar. And then this year, I have just
• 1:16:52
  been solely using the Google Calendar.
• 1:16:54
  And to be honest, it's excellent, I can't fall.
• 1:16:57
  We did the same and we actually have five calendars synchronized
• 1:17:01
  together. Oh yeah, yeah you can see.
• 1:17:04
  So we have for the children or my wife or mess up, stuff like
• 1:17:08
  that. So we you can see everything in
• 1:17:10
  the same place. I love the fact that you can
• 1:17:13
  like toggle them as well, so like I can have like my work one
• 1:17:16
  toggled on or off. So it will show the things and
• 1:17:19
  you can take it off immediately. That's brilliant.
• 1:17:21
  That's yeah. Toggle and set up reminders and
• 1:17:26
  links and repeating events. It's amazing exceptional.
• 1:17:35
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:17:44
  There was a movie about Steve Jobs and he says, I don't know
• 1:17:48
  whether it's true or not, but he says in this movie that You he
• 1:17:57
  was, he was learning calligraphy in at the University but after a
• 1:18:01
  while he dropped out. So he went to the IT staff
• 1:18:06
  happened stuff added. But later on he used his
• 1:18:09
  knowledge about calligraphy in designing the Apple products.
• 1:18:14
  How the funds should look and stuff like that.
• 1:18:18
  And based on that, he suggested that learn whatever you would
• 1:18:23
  like to learn because you don't know how it can be useful later
• 1:18:27
  on. And I can really relate to that
• 1:18:33
  did. This is how I use my simple
• 1:18:36
  guitar playing quad knowledge right now, but I was reading
• 1:18:46
  poetry and now I can teach this simple prayer things to my
• 1:18:50
  children. So you can be passionate about
• 1:18:55
  things, you can learn things and sometimes Maybe 10 years later,
• 1:18:59
  20 years later, maybe you can reuse them sometimes not but so
• 1:19:05
  you spent some time learning something but don't be afraid,
• 1:19:09
  learn unless S4 and sorry, unnecessary things because it
• 1:19:17
  can be useful later. No, it's not it's not a waste of
• 1:19:23
  time. Never Yeah, I agree with us in
• 1:19:26
  some other. Yeah, I don't think there's
• 1:19:27
  anything I learned this ever unnecessary.
• 1:19:30
  As far as like, skills are concerned and what not like you,
• 1:19:33
  you never know when your yeah. Find yourself using them.
• 1:19:36
  It's funny how that works out. Like, I mean, I look at
• 1:19:42
  marketing, you know, I studied marketing, the university and I
• 1:19:46
  do it a lot on a freelance basis and I find myself working in
• 1:19:50
  other fields freelance. Now it's a bit of a departure at
• 1:19:53
  the moment, what I'm doing from from marketing by On the side.
• 1:19:56
  But the more interesting and funny thing I find is that
• 1:20:01
  everything I do online podcasting cultivating or
• 1:20:07
  creating an acting career. You know, advertising, posting
• 1:20:11
  stuff, online, all of it uses marketing and the practices I've
• 1:20:15
  learned throughout working in corporate working for companies
• 1:20:19
  working freelance Etc. And if anything, I use more of
• 1:20:26
  Marketing in in those Endeavors than I do in actual marketing
• 1:20:28
  itself. And I mean I had so I am more
• 1:20:34
  learn it from the jobs I did rather than University.
• 1:20:38
  But that was a thing that I thought oh I'll probably just
• 1:20:41
  move away from marketing and then moving to other things but
• 1:20:46
  I use it with everything I do. So yeah it's funny how these
• 1:20:51
  things can come become useful and continue to be useful.
• 1:20:56
  It's intriguing. As we draw things to a close for
• 1:21:00
  today, do you have any upcoming projects or some final thoughts
• 1:21:03
  that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:21:07
  My only plan for this project right now is last year, I wanted
• 1:21:13
  to write a Christmas song, but I didn't have the time to produce
• 1:21:16
  it. So I'm thinking about writing it
• 1:21:20
  in the spring and to scheduling it for December because all the
• 1:21:26
  musicians are putting up Christmas songs, so why not?
• 1:21:30
  We but it will be twisted story again.
• 1:21:37
  Cool. I like the idea that very
• 1:21:39
  Twisted Christmas. Oh this sounds like a perfect
• 1:21:44
  title is freely. Thank you.
• 1:21:49
  Well thank you very much less law for being on the show.
• 1:21:52
  It's been an absolute pleasure and I wish you all the best with
• 1:21:56
  your music and yeah, thank you very much.
• 1:22:00
  Thank you for having me. There have a good night and
• 1:22:03
  actually pleasure, and to all the listeners of the Christian
• 1:22:07
  Reef podcast, as always be safe. Be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:22:11
  next one.