Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 307 - Run For The Jules

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 307 - Run For The Jules · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, Rob Clark, Jeb
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Bordelli watching debate.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm so tired of people saying, oh, did you watch
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: a debate?
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: You know what you could debate, Dude, you could debate.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Gez Nuts Hot Gott.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: In the Heart of Dallas, Rerigons and Souls, tel Shadows,
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Mysteries and sold but truth is obscured in the depths
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: of the night.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: The Lone Gun and Podcast sheds a flickering light.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis, education,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions reserve
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: that right now. On with the show. Here is Joe
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: b and the Triple b Hey Andthrew Dene House Things
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: in Texas.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Everything is going to hail down here in Duston Chez.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Joey and Joey Joey and then trumble Me Bamy, Jumbley
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and Joby Rock Doggy Shoe.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Rady, trumble Be Hen, Joey Showy Hen trumble Be Bama, Joby,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Hen Joey Rock Doggy show Arad.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Showing how it is sinking and.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: The chef che.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Joe Chan.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: And here we go.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: And here we go. That's right, Joe, Here we go
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: for another episode of the Lone Cooming Podcast. This is
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: episode number three zero seven. Okay, I'm just checking if
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I'm frozen or not. I don't know. It's debatable. We'll
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: see how this gives. Oh lord, what's up? Joe?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Yo? Yo, what's up? I mean, you never know what
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the matrix is going to throw at us every show
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: pre when we're like prepping for a few minutes we
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: do before we go live.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Always everything's fine, and then as soon as we go live. Yeah,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I'm mister Roboto again.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well it's it's not only that, it's sometimes other things,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: but we make it work. We deal with it. Hello everyone,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Happy Friday night, and.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Uh be Friday the thirteenth, Joe. Yes, yes, you're open
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: camp Crystal Lake Country. I believe, not yet, not yet, No,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I know what you're up in the Northeast.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes, no. I don't think we've ever
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: had a show on Friday the thirteenth before, so it's
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a first.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: It is a first, first of many hopefully. Yes, so
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I heard you had some exciting news, Joe, you had
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: an addition to the family. Everyone, Yes, so kind of congratulations.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Well, just some background. I had a rescue dog named
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Einstein for a couple of years. He was a little
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: be shon freeze and I had to put him down
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. He was sixteen though, but
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: something's been missing in my life ever since. So I
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: got a dog my girlfriend. I rescued another dog of
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the same type because my girlfriend is allergic and this
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: dog is hypoallergenic. And she didn't really know because I
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: knew what she would say, so I was kind of
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: forcing her hand, like the CIA and the Bay of Pigs, right,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: thinking she's gonna fold. Well not yet. But this is Cooper,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and I'm actually getting him later tonight after the show,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: so I don't have him yet. Very cute rescued from
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: a Chinese slaughter factory.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Now otherwise known as dinner.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're eating the cat, they're eating the dogs, and
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that these people always have
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the stories right and the rescue places. But the name
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: is Cooper, which is kind of funny because it's like
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: dB Cooper, which of course shout out John.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Limb back that's not a good name for a girl.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: It's a girl. So I was like, we need to
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: rename it something JFK related. My two ideas was were
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Ruby are Ruby and Jata. It doesn't like either of them,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: but I don't really care. And I was like, what
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: other JFK related name ideas.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Do you have? What do you think about? Odio?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Huh, that's interesting, that's interesting. I'd keep it like two
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: or three syllables for sure.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Three.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying two or three?
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, three oudio.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So we'll see next week. Uh, maybe I'll shove her
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: off on t l G A lamp. It's kind of cool.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. So but Bushka Ashley would hello?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I like that even got a little intends to its Scott,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: where's my little lady at? Yeah?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: John? I told my So my girlfriend's like why Jada,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, that was Jack Ruby's favorite most
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: popular stripper. She's like no, I was like, shouldn't have
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: mentioned that. South to West? Hello, my greathound is named
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: after D. B. Cooper. No, lie, see respect South to West?
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Is it a girl or guy?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I would guess it's a boy.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, these days rob dogs can change.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Don't even start.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Jack, thank you, and let's say hello to Rob before
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: we jump in.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's peruse and say welcome the folks in, shall
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: we yes? Guarding the guns in the house, Big Claw
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: named you, Deine is chilling? Jack is in the house.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: Was up?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Jack?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Hey? Garden and guns? Uh? I follow her on Twitter
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and she had some epic pictures of her garden. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: when she says garden and guns, like, she has a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: pretty epic garden, all these exotic kind of plants and flowers.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Really cool.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Shout out to you.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: T Simmons says his dog's name is Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: That's cool.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: If it was a guy boy, I was gonna name
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: it Oswald for sure.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Paul is in the house like Mike Lake painter. That's
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: a new one. There's a new one. Welcome in, sir,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: or made up, madam?
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: John is in the house. What's up?
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: John?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Ashley? Slacker? Dan, see no evil Southwest. Let's go Trey,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Big Frozen Bob, Tiny serve course, what's up? Tiny?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I agree?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Lee House? What's Lee?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Two syllable names are the best for dogs. I agree.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what happened to that dude, no,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: true flags, I don't know he was. He was. He
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: hasn't been around for a while.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: You know, he commented on the Marguerite episode. He hasn't
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: been here in the chat recently.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: But good.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: We we like he has some interesting takes. But I
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: like him and Robbie. What's up? I was better growing gone? Thanks?
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And speaking of Out of the Blank, rob Bett, uh.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Today we were mentioned on Out of the Blank on
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the show that dropped with Gary Severson front of the show.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Paul Blow And of course I.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Know Paul didn't mention her names. It must have been Gary.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: It was Gary. It was related to the Martin film and.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: How we lit under him is still smoldering.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yes, yes, yes, yes yeah. I'll send you
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the link later. It was funny.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: But we yact like I don't listen to Robbie's show.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I just haven't listened to that episode.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yet, right, it just dropped a few hours ago.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like a month behind all my podcasts listening, Joe,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I will get there eventually, but I listened to so
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: many podcasts. I am like a month behind.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I hear you, there's there's a lot out there, and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that's why we appreciate everyone who listens.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Just listened to Gary Hill's show show.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yeah that you are.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a little behind. Before that was Larry Hancock,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: So I'm I'm definitely behind it wee bit.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: But you're going in order. I respect that too.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, I don't, I don't. I don't jump the line.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Robbie said to you, Genio isn't a fan of mine.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: That's funny. Join the club, Robbie.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: The cool kids club, Bobby.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: He calls me Bob Clark, who call you Bobby instead
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: of Robbie?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And Trey says, little Lynn, you know what I actually
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: brought that up to, And she's like, why that? And
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: same responses.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Poor just Marina. I thought that I thought of that too.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Ruthie could be interesting. We're going to get into a
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: couple of Ruths today, Rob not only Ruth Payne, another
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: ruth that a lot of people might not know about.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: We are going to get there. We are definitely. So
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Will's in the house.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Sheba JFK primary sources. That is actually that's that's a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: good one too. That's Joel Jack Ruby's dogs name Judith.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: There's coming in tonight from Trey. I don't want to.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I don't want to name my new I have to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: think of the three syllables every time I call the name.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have to think of that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Oh but uh, all just little little sauntered in here
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: ADDI hatty hattie.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: All right, so I think, uh, what do you have
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: something on, mister Mark Lame sir.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna kick it off with the little FBI
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: surveillance that I came across of a Mark Lane talk
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: given in Albany, New York, on February the twelfth, nineteen
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: sixty eight. Okay, excuse me, I guess he was, you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: going around giving one of his You know, it was
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: a conspiracy. The CIA was behind it. Talks at a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: local college there, but they were keeping tabs. And it's
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: not really a report per se. It's basically like bullet
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: points type of thing. So the first thing on here
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: is it says an article appearing in the February ninth,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight issue of the Utica Daily Press is Yeah,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Utica is in New York, right.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, it's upstate New York, pretty alban either or.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, daily newspaper page seventeen entitled Lane says CIA had
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: a part in plotting JFK's death reads as follows, and
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: then there is another blurb says Hamilton facts and appending
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans trial. We guess we're talking about the
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Clay Shaw trial. Will quote startling shock Americans over FBI,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: CIA and other government collision with in President Kennedy's assassination.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Controversial Warren Report critic Mark Lane said last night, speaking
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: to more than four hundred and twenty five in the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Colgate University chapel, Lane lashed at cover ups and lies,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: calling them hallmarks of a total state. He was interrupted
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: repeatedly by prolonged applause and encouraging laughter. Oh wrong button.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: He said the facts would come out in the conspiracy trial,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: likely before April of Clay Bellshaw. I did not misread that.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Clay Bellshaw a prominent New Orleans executive. I guess they
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: misunderstood Mark Lane. Maybe he had maybe he had something
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: in his teach when you know a little speech well Shaw.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Lane praised efforts of New Orleans DA Jim Garrison. Lane,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a former New York City Assemblyman, is now on Garrison's
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: staff as a special Council investigator. He said, he wound
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: up a lecture tour with his Colgate address and was
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to head back to the southern city, back to New Orleans.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I predict Americans will be startled in shocked to learn
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the CIA participated in planning the assassination of the president,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: and that the FBI knew about it five days in advance,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and no one told the president, he said. Now, of course,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: he's referring to the November seventeenth teletype that went out
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: from what was William Wall in the New Orleans office
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: of the FBI. He pictured Lee Harvey Oswald, whom the
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Warrant Commission called the only assassin, as an FBI pawn
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: who informed that agency about the plot in November, five
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: days before it happened. So Lane's here saying that Lee
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald himself told the FBI five days before the
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: assassination about the assassination, about the impending assassination, Lane said,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the FBI sent telegrams to its southern offices on the
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: night of November seventeenth. Here we go saying that an
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: attempt would be made on Kennedy's life in Dallas, Texas,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: where in fact Kennedy was killed on November twenty second.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Yet President Kennedy, he said, was told in October that
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the same group was planning to assassinate him in Chicago,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: and he can't the trip. The death motive, he said,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: could be traced to Kennedy's withdrawals of fifteen hundred men
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: from Vietnam two months before his death and another fifteen
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: hundred men shortly before he was killed. That left a
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: total of fifteen thousand, five hundred. It is now over
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: half a million men. So what's interesting to me, Joe,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: is that before all the before all the kerfluffel with
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Fletcher Prouty and all this stuff, that Mark Lane in
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven is saying that the death motive, he said,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: could be traced to Kennedy's withdrawals of fifteen hundred men
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: from Vietnam two months before his death and another fifteen
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: men shortly before he was killed. You know, the NSAM
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: two sixty three and two seven three.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I think he's talking about advisors, because that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Was yeah, yeah, yeah. He said he didn't know why
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the Kennedy family had remained silent. He said the voters
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: should ask this of New York Senator Robert F. Kennedy,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the late president's brother. So yeah, Lane's saying that RFK
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: should come out and demand more answers, and instead of
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: just saying sting, silent, he said Jack Ruby, Oswald's killer,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: was afraid to talk in Texas and the Chief Justice,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Earl Warren refused Ruby's plea to tell you everything I
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: know quote in DC, which is true.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Yep, they would not take him there.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: They would not, he said. Oswald's widow, Marina Porter, testified
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: yesterday before a grand New Orleans grand jury, and he
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: said her answers would be quote very illuminating, very illuminating.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Lane said to the government and news media have tried
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: hard to stop the New Orleans trial, He said. The
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: FBI tried to prevent publication of his nineteen sixty six
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: best selling book, Rush to Judgment. He said FBI Assistant
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Director John Roach asked the eventual publishers to suppress it.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So now he's blaming the FBI for trying to suppress
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: his book, Rush to Judgment, or the publishing of it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Laane refuses to say if communists were behind the assassination.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Somewhat cryptically, he said, quote philosophically, the shots came from
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the right, not the left. Get it, get it?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it took me in a second.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, I know, make up Joe nearing forty one and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: coughing from a cold lane. Dwelt at length with assassination
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: details in his hour and twenty minute talk, and during
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the twenty minute question period, he stated that five shots
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: were fired, two from in front of the President's car
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and two from behind, and another that missed put ricocheted
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: into a spectator's face. A photo showed Oswald standing in
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: the doorway of the Texas school Book Depository building as
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's car passed, and not on the sixth floor from
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: where the fatal shots were allegedly fired. He said, the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Warren group cut out this evidence. Now we obviously know
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: that that's not correct these days.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Which which specific evidence are you are you referring to?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Because he named a few there.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: The last one about him being in the doorway of
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the school book depository. Yeah, he was not doorway man.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: That was Billy Lovelady.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Oh that's that's what he was referred to. Okay, because
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I was I was thinking he's kind of early for
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the prayer man theory. But yeah, they he was talking
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: about love lady. Yeah, cleared that up for the audience.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Lane ridiculed Warrent Commission members, the government, and news media.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: He scorned former Utiken Walter Sheridan, NBC investigator for a
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: recent TV show about the Garrison Bellshaw case, for false statements, statements,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: out of context, and bits and pieces. NBC is much
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: aware that it has much to hide, and then it
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: has stamped on here you know this blah blah blah
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of the FBI and to be loaned to your agency.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: It is it and its contents are not to be
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: distributed outside your agency. So I'm guessing this is an
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: FBI report that was given to the CIA as well,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: which is interesting that they were watching sending people to
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: go listen to Mark Lane, uh, you know, his lectures
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: and then report back to the FBI and the CIA
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: about what he was saying. I got Robbie sidetracked me
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: with that great Dane comment. I liked that I got
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a great named Mark Dane.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a few great comments I want to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: highlight after you're done.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Wow. And then I got one other thing for I'm
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: going to turn it over to you, Joe, all right,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I came across something that I did not know and
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I found it interesting. So this is dated. It's a FBI,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: an FBI report for the Director of the FBI attention
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: from from Hoover to the FBI Lab and dated February
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: twenty six, sixty eight, and it says being forwarded to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the Bureau by Railway Express is a three to oh
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: three Savage cartridge furnished by William Coy on two twenty three,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: sixty eight of Houston, Texas in caption matter assassination of
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: President John F. Kennedy. The laboratory is requested to conduct
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: appropriate examination in an effort to develop any pertinent information
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: furnished results to Dallas. That's from Hoover, all right. Now,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: this is five years after the assassination. So they sent
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: a three to oh three Savage cartridge to the FBI
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: lab to get tested. So on March twenty eighth, we
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: have an FBI report and it states thus LEE one
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: caliber three O three Savage cartridge furnished by William Coy
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: on February twenty third, sixty eight. Results of examination the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: submitted cartridge Q six two eighth C three two eight
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: is a caliber three O three Savage cartridge bearing the
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: head stamp of the Savage Arms Corporation, Westfield, Massachusetts. It
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: is not possible to determine the year of manufacturer. However,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it was noted that this cartridge is not excessively oxidized,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: and no corrosion of the type which would be present
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: if the cartridge had been exposed to the weather for
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: any extensive period of time is present. Savage Model ninety
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: nine rifles are the only weapons known to have been
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: chambered for the caliber three to three Savage cartridge. The
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: only mark found on Q six two eight three two
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: eight was a mark on the rim of the cartridge,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: which may have been produced by the extractor of a weapon.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: This mark is suitable for comparison purposes to other marks.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: You know, if if they could find another cartridge and
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: prove it came out of some gun. But it says
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: the submitted cartridge could not be loaded into or fired
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: in Lee Harvey Oswald's caliber six and a half millimeter
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Manly kirk Karcandi rifle.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And that's where they It's Robert Fraser, one of the
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: FBI lab who tested him but didn't Buel Fraser have
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a three zero three British.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Infield rifle, I believe sulcer.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: So it's interesting that they say that that this three
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: or three cartridge could only be fired from a Savage
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: rifle instead of a different three or three caliber rifle,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: which you would think, right, you know.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting. Maybe at that point they had
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: cleared him so to say after you know.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, an, the back story on the casing is that
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: this guy whatever his name was, Coy he uh him
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and a couple of buddies went to the grassy knoll
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: in the middle of the night with metal detectors and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: started going around and see if they could find anything,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: and they dug up a three or three cartridge. Now,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: just because it says that, you know, it wasn't oxidized
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: or rusted out enough to have been five years old,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you know, it depends on, you know, exactly where they
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: found it, whether it was you know, how buried it
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: was or you know, I would imagine a cartridge left
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: ling on top of the ground would be severely rusted.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: But I'm not sure how they perform underground, right, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: as far as oxidation goes with that. But yeah, you know,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I think It's it's funny that the FBI just is
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey oswalk and out of possibly shot this shell
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: from the grassy knoll from his many Kirk Karkhano like
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: duh really.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And Rob Garden and Guns are local gun expert
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: here says that is not the same as three or
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: three British. I don't know if I don't know the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: shell or the the the savage to the British.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, if you could, can you shoot three
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: or three ammo out of a infield and a savage?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: That's my question.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, Garden and Guns get back to us shortly on that,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: but uh, Rob, we have a few people to think
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: really quickly. John, we already thank him. Loose Moose Crew,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you John, as always, Yes, thank you Jack of course,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: perpetual concepts coming through for my green fees. Thank you.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: We's frying golf. Golf is expensive up here. Yeah, it
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: will definitely go to the green fees for sure. No,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: probably go to answer, but uh Paula Jane of course,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: thank you. Probably going for dog food, yeah, probably these days.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I had a couple of comments I highlighted
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: while you were talking. Glenn Rocks. Hey, Rob, long time
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: since Dealey Plaza.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: So I want to Glenn. I met Glenn when I
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: went to Dallas. Nice, very cool dude from across the pond.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Timothy Ryan, I don't think we said hi to you?
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: What's up? I don't know if we said hi to Lee?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: You probably did?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: If not, I didn't high Lee.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Tiny dancer and she's referring. Gary said he found the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: home believed.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: To belong to J. T.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Martin, who took the film, hadn't gone to the door
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to ask yet. Yes, he had mentioned that during Out
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: of the Blank, Tiny Dancer. All I'm gonna say is
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Rob and I are on it.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: And let's just say somebody gave him that address many
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: many months ago. Yeah, Rob was waiting for him to
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: go knock on the dad damn door.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he said he didn't want to stalk him today,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna have to. Yeah. But Lee, and I'm
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: actually really embarrassed. I didn't think of this. You should
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: have gotten a mail dog and called him Martin. Martin's
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: two syllables and it didn't even like enter my mind.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But you could call it Marty.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Is that a girl's name?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: It is remember in fact, she was the one helping us,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: going to help us out.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, Canadian, right yeah.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, she's not Canadian. She's Minnesota.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Oh right, right, right, yes, yes, yes, in Minnesota.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, I'll be talking about her a little
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: bit later when it comes to Jeweles, Rico, Kimball.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, synchronosity, I love it, and thank you Leeve Fight
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Dollar super Sticker. Ye, thank yeah, thank you to everyone again.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So I just wanted to catch up on those.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: All right, Joe, Let's talk about some ruths. Two roofs
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: in the truth.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, So, but actually really quickly
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: because we got to get our homies in as you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: not this homie. Hello, we will be a homie. Our
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: homies in Dallas November. It's their conference. Use Codeman code
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Gunman ten for ten percent off your conference tickets.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Use Codeman Gunman. Yeah.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I know, right, And I have a lot to read,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: so I better, uh get on top of.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: My tongue, Joe, Yeah, that sounds so bad.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Uh, Groden's Larry Hancock, Doug Campbell, Alex Harris, Bill Simpitch,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Chuck O'celly, Gael Nicks, Jackson, Paul Blow Carmen and Sabastanos,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Mike Swanson, David Boylan, Willow hollerin who Facebook friend requested
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: me yesterday, Rob, So we are now friends. It's official. Yeah,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Joe BURRELLI that would be yours, truly.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I never heard him.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a he's anybody with a name like that
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: got to be. Yeah, Jeffrey Meek, fred Let Matt. I
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: always say this wrong, do it, doubt it, doubt it,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: doubt it, And that's yeah. Yeah, So yeah, save depending
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: on what ticket you get, it's like ten or twenty bucks.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: That's what I said last time because I was doing
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the math in my head, Rob, But uh yeah, definitely
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: worth worth a few dollars savings. So hope to see
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: you guys in Dallas in November. And before we get
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to our topic, of course, Silk City Gunman for twenty
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: percent off your order. They have a five pack going
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: on right now, the Peach Hobinaro, which we talked about
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: last week. And yeah, as Tech Attack, which is actually
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: really good with tacos. No, that's like the green that's
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the one second to the left. That's like like one
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of those like green sauces you put on tacos. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: somewhere in Vermont. I'ven't tried that. That looks fire. And yeah,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: thirty bucks for all five and less than that if
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you use loan gunman. So all right, So.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Real quick, Joe, real quick, Joe, before we get into
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the roof, I have a mea carpa. I have a
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: me a cap.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: You know we played last week the audio from Lauren
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Hall and aj Weberman, you know, the audio that I've
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: been asking for for all these months, And of course
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: it came from Turing Horse and I told him I
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: would give his dog actually a shout out, and I
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: forgot to. So we're gonna do it right now. Okay,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: so everybody give it up for mister Wiggles Man, mister.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Wiggles, thank you, turn and my dog is not that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Mister Wiggles.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Everybody, thank you for that audio. Again, Turn and hi
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: mister Wiggles.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: No, turn Horse, I will not stop vaping.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, we we we support dogs on the show.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: We are a dog friendly show.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, but yeah, thank you thanks again for the audio
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: and sorry I forgot, but there is a shout out
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: for mister Wiggles. He's he's a damn cute feller. M.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so let's get into my little segment here,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna be talking about a lady called Ruth Clopfer.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Ruth Clopfer, I hope I'm saying that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Joe will mispronounced that name about ten times in the
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: next ten minutes.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a hard one. K l o E
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: p f E R clop for and.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: What Cliffer Clopper?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, I could I don't know, I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: mispronounce it every time. But uh so, I was like,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: who is this woman? I had never heard of her,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and what relevance and or context could she or her
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: story have to the jfk assassination. And essentially it actually
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: ties in a few of the topics we've covered in
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the last few weeks. Rob a couple of weeks ago,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I had a segment on some of the Ruth and
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Marina letters back and forth where we did some financial
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: calculations and we showed that despite their many letters back
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and forth from Ruth and Marina regarding tax deductions for
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: dependence and Marina and her kids moving in, that there
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be a financial motivation for Ruth, and she probably
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: spend like a thousand plus a month, considering she wanted
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to pay for all the food and the doctors and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: all this stuff. And also what you had talked about
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: recently about the Quaker and Unitarian churches, which I believe
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: was in the Pain episode a couple of weeks ago,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and that's connected to Ruth Kleff's story. So this is
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: a letter from on your screen from Ruth Payne.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: To Marina in Russian, by the way, in.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Russian, saying that she told a friend of her contact
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: of hers, Ruth Kleoffer, to stop by and check in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: on her during July of nineteen sixty three. So, Rob,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: if you remember in our previous episode or when I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: was talking with the segment when I was talking about
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the Ruth and Marina letters, Marina had not gotten back
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: to Ruth sometime in the July sixty three arena for
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: almost a month, and she was very worried, very So
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: what did she do? Well, she went into her Quaker
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: contexts and found someone in New Orleans who she could
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: check in on, who would check in on Marina and Lee.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And that is mister Clopper and her name is in
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the Warren Report. The letter that I showed you was
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: on the previous page was a commissioned exhibit number four sixteen.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And she is a very interesting story. So I'm going
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to start reading now. At some time in July nineteen
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: sixty three, Ruth Clopper received a long distance call from
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Missus Ruth Payne in Irving, Texas. Miss Payne said she
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: has gotten she had gotten Missus Cloke's name from a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: miss Missus Eleanor Hammond Garland, Texas. Mister Clopper, Missus Clopper
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: knew happened to be a Quaker and active in the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Friends Meeting group. Missus Payne wanted to ask a favor
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: of missus Clopfer, going on to say that she would
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: like her to visit a Missus Lee Oswalt Marina at
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Magazine Street in New Orleans. Missus Paine identified missus Oswalt
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: as a friend who was having domestic trouble and feared
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: her husband might send her back to Russia. Missus Peter
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: very missus Payne wanted missus Cloppfer to find someone who
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: could speak Russian in case Missus Oswalt, who was about
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to have a baby, needed help. She agreed to do this,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: but not as soon as Ruth had anticipated. So about
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: two or three days And by the way, this is
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: an FBI report from Thanksgiving Day, November twenty seventh, nineteen
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: sixty three. You had two FBI agents go to Miss
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Ruth Cloffer's house in New Orleans and on Thanksgiving Day,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: so they weren't eating turkey. They didn't have the day
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: off to interview her, which is interesting, right. So about
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: two or three days later, after Ruth Payne called her
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: for the first time, she called her a second time.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: She told Missus Pain she had not been able to
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: see Marina yet. Miss Paine stated that was fine because
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: in the meantime she had received a letter from Marina,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: who informed that Lee had returned, saying that they were
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: not separating and that Lee was not sending her back
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to Russia. She promised Ruth Paine she would visit Marina
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: any day to see if she could help. She then
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: received a letter from Missus Pain which was date of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: July eighteenth, sixty, nineteen sixty three, and which was included
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: a copy of a letter Missus Payne had written to
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: mister Missus Paul Blanchard, Missus clother furnished these two letters,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: and nay Rita's follows, I know this is that name man,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: so this is a letter. So Marinas called this this.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Ruth Cleffer once asked her to stop in and check
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: on Marina. She had not heard from her, and then
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: two or three days calls her back and Ruth Clepper
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: would be like, no, I haven't gotten a chance to
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: go over there yet. So what does Ruth do? Well,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: she writes a letter to Missus Cloefer, and then we'll
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: see he writes a letter to someone else. So she's
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: making a lot of effort here to get back in
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: touch with Marina. And the question is why Ruth the
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: enclosed speaks for itself. I don't know, of course, whether
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Missus Blanchard is on vacation or we'll get this letter promptly.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I have only her home at dress which at night,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: which might go to her directly on Saturday, but on
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Monday she would be at the Unitarian church, I judge,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and not see your home mail until evening. So this
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: is urgent according to Ruth. As you see, I feel
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: finding a Russian speaker is very important, not only to
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: get the present news. I'm going to read that again,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: not only to get the present news, but to act
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: as a contact for Marina should she need emergency help.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I doubt one year of college Russian would be sufficient.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Although your daughter would probably find contact with Marina rewarding. However,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: what they could say to each other would be limited.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: So she is referring to miss Ruth Kleffer's two daughters,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: one of whom was going to college in Moscow. So
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: that's very interesting to that. So before she hears back
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: from missus Klopfer, Ruth Payne is kind of bugging out here,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: so she writes she reaches out to someone the Unitarian Church.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Dear Missus Blanchard, this is Ruth Payne. Mister Philip Harper,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: the secretary at the Dallas Unitarian Church, suggested I write
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: to you when I told her the following problem. I
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: have a girlfriend in New Orleans who I have not
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: heard from for over a month. She is from the
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Soviet Union, and she came to this country over a
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: year ago with her husband, an American, whom she also
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: met and married there. Marina's contact with speakers of English
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: has been small, and she still speaks and understands very
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: little English. Her last letter stated that she thought she
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: might have to go back to the Soviet Union, something
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: she would prefer not to do. But Marina and her
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: husband have not been getting along and he has said
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: that he would like her to go back to Russia.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: They have a baby girl, uh one year one and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: a half years old, and they're expecting a second child
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: in October. Frankly, this is Ruth as well. Frankly, I'm worried.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I have no way of calling them and getting current
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: information directly. I would like to ask you to seek
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: a Russian speaking person there who would be able to
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: go and visit with Marina, thereby making contact for her
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: in someone of the New Orleans Russians community. And that
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: so this is the letter to missus Blanchard Still and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: then she mentions Clover in the letter, I telephoned Ruth Clover,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: New Orleans. She was the clerk of the New Orleans
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Friend Meeting Quakers. I asked her to go look for
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: someone who could speak Russian. She could not think of
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: anyone who could speak the language, but says she would go.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Very interesting here because Ruth is making a huge effort
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: by not only reaching out to her Quaker church for
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: a contact, to reach out to someone in New Orleans.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: But then when that girl is kind of not that
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: reliable that she's now writing going to the Unitarian Church,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: which we had talked about before she had connections with too,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: write Missus Blanchard. So all this is in the Warrant
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Commission of Warren to Breeze's report on December sixty three.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: So why is she making this much effort?
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Rob Probably because she's supposed to be watching her and
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: she can't do that from Texas when she's in New Orleans.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: That'll be my guest. I'm right there with It's funny
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that she has like this built in Quaker network, you know,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: of these do gooders that will do anything asked of them.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: And I believe didn't you state that Ruth had two
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: daughters and one was studying studying Russian and Russia or
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: going to Russia or something like that.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was in Russia over the summer of nineteen
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: sixty three. And we're going to get into it. So
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the Ruth Klepfer did stop by Magazine Street with Lee
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: and Marina with and talked to Marina, with Lee translating
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of course, because she knew no Russian and Marina allegedly
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: knew no English, and then in September, we're going to
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: get her and she brings her two daughters, and we're
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: actually going to hear an email written in the nineties
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: to a researcher from her daughter about the visit to
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the oswaltson Magazine Street. It was on it was the
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: day before Ruth and Marina left for back to Dallas.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I believe it was September twenty fourth, and the girls,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Ruth Klepfer and her two daughters came over on the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: twenty third. So I didn't know of this person who
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: had visited Marina for two separate occasions. And it's let's see.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So we're now continuing on the FBI report of debris.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: December second, sixty three, one evening, probably during the latter
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: July or sixty three, Kletfer went to visit missus Oswalt
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: at Magazine Street. Lee met her at the door, was
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: not receptive to her visit until she stated Missus Paine
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: had requested she drop by to see Marina. During this
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: brief visit, Lee Oswalt translated her conversation with Marina. She
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: asked Oswalt if he was working. He said he was not,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: but was looking for work. She asked him what kind
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: of work he did, and he replied that he was
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: a mechanic and also had done some dark room and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: photographic work. She asked Oswalt if he or Marina had
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: relatives in New Orleans who could assist, and Lee identified
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: his aunt, missus Mourette, and gave her the telephone number.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And this lady was also in Oswalt's address book as well,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: which is kind of how they got there. Miss Ruth
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Kleffer and so Miss Clever stated she made no attempt
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: to locate any Russian speaking person to visit Marina Oswalt
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: and had no further contact. On Friday, September twentieth, she
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: received a phone call from missus Payne Ruth, who stated
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: she was in New Orleans and visiting in the Oswalt residence.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Miss Kloffer told missus Payne she would visit with them
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: the following Sunday, September twenty second. On Sunday afternoon, about
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: two she and her two daughters, Carol and Ruth annef
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Ruth naming their daughter ruth Anne, both of whom speak Russian,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: called a Lee and Marina and Miss Payne on the
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: magazine street. So that must have been an interesting meeting.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: There you have Lee, you have Marina, you have Ruth Payne,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: you have June, and then you have miss Clifford coming
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: by with her two kind of college aged daughters. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: we'll see, uh maybe maybe Oswald was intrigued by one
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of them. We'll see. Uh. So Oswald indicated he was
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: staying in New Orleans for a couple of days, after
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: which he was going north or to Philadelphia or to
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: quote somewhere in the east.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: There's a big feint there, right, and I'm going south bitches.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mexico.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: They asked him why he was making this trip, and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: he was very evasive and indefinite about where he was
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: going or why, but said something to the effect it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: business to respect. This is actually the actual FBI document
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: from November twenty seventh, sixty three of the two agents
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: that were visiting missus Clopper, and it just corroborates that
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the daughters had visited in late September as Marina was
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: about to leave, and of course Garrison was on it too.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Sir sweet On February ten, sixty seven, Andrews. Sciambra and
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Jim Alcock spoke to missus Ruth Kleffer and essentially says
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: the same thing that I've gone over the whole.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Time, admitted to being Atty's house.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was like, why did they just call
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: did they just call Oswald the patsy to like like
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: fake people that might have been leaking?
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: But I we'll have to type out Lee Harvey Oswald
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: every time we talk about him.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and so so I'm going to read now
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: from a journal on the Mary Farrell Foundation called the
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Fourth Decade, Volume three, issue five, and this includes an
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: interview with Ruth Ann which was the daughter of Ruth,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: and she describes her experience with going to the Oswalt's
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: apartment on Magazine Street. For the record, Ruth Payne was
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: a Quaker in Dallas who taught Russian and local high school.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Because she could read and write Russian, she befriended Marina.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Marina spoke very little English and felt isolated when they
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: were living in New Orleans. In addition, Marina had written
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: to Ruth Paine that Lee was abusing her, not sure
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: if it was physically or verbally. So when Ruth stopped
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: hearing from Marina and the Oswalts had no phone or
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: it was disconnected. Ruth Payne became quite worried about Marina's welfare.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: She looked up to the New Orleans Friends meeting in
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: a directory and wrote the clerk, who happened to be
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: my mother at the time, asking her to please check
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: on Marina. Mother had only Ruth Payne's letter and Oswalt's address.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: She went to visit alone that summer and Lee Harvin
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: happy to be there. That's when he translated. Mother told
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: us that at first Lee Harvey was suspicious of her
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: and then confronted her at the front gate, as we're
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: a business. My mother sweetly said she was there because
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of Ruth, and he immediately turned to smiles and welcomed
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: her in. He proceeded to translate from Marina and my mother.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: While they visited, she apparently promised to bring the two
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: of us, so she's talking about herself and her sister
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: for a visit when we returned in August. I remember
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: her working very hard to persuade us to go on
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: this visit to visit the stranger, and finally only consenting
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: when she insisted that she had promised and did not
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: want to back out. On a promise. When we arrived
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: at the apartment of Magazine Street, it was the very
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: day that Ruth Payne was planning to drive the very
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: pregnant Marina and her first baby back to Dallas, and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: the van was already loaded. There were no furniture in
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: the living room and we sat on packed boxes. Lee
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Harvey oswaldt was there as well. Pain translated for Carol
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: that would be your sister, my mother, and Marina. The
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: four of them looked at Carol's pictures while Lee was
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: focused his attention to me the pictures of Carol that
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: had when she visited Russia. He tried to encourage me
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: in my study of the Russian language. He gave me
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: two Russian joke books, which I still have in quotations.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately he did not autograph them. Who would have guessed
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: he would have become so famous. It's kind of funny,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: So Lee Harvey oswald gave two Russian joke books to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the daughter of Ruth. I tried to find out as
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: much as he could about why he went to Russia
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: and how he met and married Marina. That I was
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: known for my direct get to the bottom of things questions,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: and he was truly a mystery to me. He was evasive,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: few of his answers made sense, and rarely made eye contact.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: So one more thing very interesting here that we're getting
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: some kind of context on this Quaker family that Ruth
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: tests to visit with Marina. She was very concerned, like
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: we said, and they.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Waited to know.
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, why did the potato cross the road? I don't
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: know to get to the other side. Sorry, that's from
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: my Russian joke book published nineteen forty one.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so the author who are the researcher that
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: interviewed Ruth Ann felt that he Lee was really flirting
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: with her and she was not having it because she
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: was there and obviously he had a young child and
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: his wife was there. But she stated at the time
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: she had placed Lee Oswalt in the same category with
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: the mental patients with whom she had just been working.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Interesting, well, how could he wanted to get in her
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: pajamas or just because he was a weirdo?
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but it seems to
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: me that yeah, Ruth was acting in more of an
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: urgent way to get back in touch from Marena more
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: than adda just concern. It seems like she had some
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: type of job to do, right, And we've talked about
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the handoff from the De moorn Shields to the Pains,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and I think it was Jay Walton Moore, the domestic
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: contacts guy in Dallas who attested De moornshield to watch
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Lee Tomorre and Sheild wants to. And Ruth Payne loses
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: track of Marina for a month in New Orleans, so
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: she's using all her contacts here to get in touch,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: and she's telling Miss Blanchard to contact mississ culp If
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and ask her for any updates. And it's like, why
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: put that much effort into concern unless there was something
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: I agree, something definitely fishy there. If she didn't have
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: kids and stuff, she probably would have drove there herself
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: earlier than she did. And I think you said that
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Marina ended up did end up writing her back, but
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: that she still had this woman check on her, right.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And when Ruth was there in September, Lady September
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: twentieth to twenty fourth picking up Marina and June she
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: calls Ruth Kluppfer and invites her over with her two kids.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Now at that point, you know, Marina is Okay, you're
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: there for your Ruth Payne. You stayed in their magazine
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Street apartment for three days, so why then have it
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: seems to me like, like what you said earlier, Rob,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: there's a weird network going on here with some of
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: the with like a church cover, you know, with people
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: keeping an eye on people with the cover of different churches.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: And and when I read from the document, she's like,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: we need updates, we need information. The way she worded
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: it was very interesting and she was very urgent. So
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: let's see what the chat has to say. I am good, all.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Right, we do you need to answer two questions? I
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: saw people were asking about Quick Hits. The studio is
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: still on her instruction. We're still working on things, but
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: hopefully soon within the next couple of weeks, Doug in
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: the Dallas Action and Quick Hits will be back in
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: full force. Whereas Colleen, I don't know, Trey, uh, there's
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: a couple of people missing notables Bungled I think yep, Bungled,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: sally Zen dollars in the house.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I believe mister Douglas is on his way to vacation.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's probably at the beach right now. So hopefully
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Hopefully when he gets back, he'll be able to get
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: everything transferred over to the new studio and be up
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: and running.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I know, Tiny. I still still
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: have to respond to your emails. I have them start
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: and I will this week.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I did. We did get We did get
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: the your email for quick Hits, and we will be
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: reading it on the air as we always do, so
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: we'll get to it, I promise. Yeah.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: And Timothy Ryan never heard of Ruth clot for all
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: these roots running around, kind of strange. Yeah, I mean
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: it's two Ruths. Maybe that's a common name and the
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Quaker community.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: But Ruth Clotford did name her daughter Ruth Ann, so
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: and that's of course who we heard a little from.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: And and there's a lot more onto it. But because
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to take up the whole show here,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: maybe we'll continue in a different day. There are some
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: interesting Mexico City Quaker connections that go back to Philadelphia,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: so where Lee said he was going. According to this claw, he.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Was going to ring the liberty bell. All right, let's
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: get into Jules Rico, Kimbo, Kimball, Joe. We got these
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: k names tonight if for Kimball, But real quick before
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: we do, I wanted to touch on something from a
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: show we did a couple of weeks back. I came
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: across the Garrison document dated April twenty fourth and nineteen
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: and sixty nine.
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: Er.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is This is towards the end of the
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: clay Shaw trial, but apparently they were still trying to
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: figure things out. And this is from an interview with
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Clara Floornoy Bootsy Gay.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Hi Colleen, she's here.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, sorry that you're in the hospital. I hope you
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: got better soon. I love y'all. Yess Yes, sorry to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: interrupt you, sir.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: It's okay. Look her way, Colleen. I hope you get
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: will soon. Yes, Bootsy Gay interview Here there's a good
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: dog named Joe Bootsy Bootsy Gay in answer to a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: subpoena Bootsy Okay, So I guess they subpoenaed Bootsy Gay
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: to come into the office on this date. At about
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: two forty five, she stated to Alcock that she resides
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: at five twenty eight do Main Street as employed at
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Max Hill's Painting Supplies, located on Saint Peter Street. She
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: stated that just prior to the assassination, she was having
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: g ra Gill do some legal work of a civil
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: nature for her. She made several trips to Gill's office
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: and observed David Ferry in the office. Huh, she understood
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: that Ferry was an investigator for Gil.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: True.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: The day following the Kennedy assassination, Okay, this is a Saturday,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: the twenty third. Yeah, Okay, Ferry's gone on his trip,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: his duck hunting ice skating trip right with his boys. Yeah,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: he's in Texas, so he's not in Gill's office at
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: this time. But the day following the Kennedy assassination, Boutiger
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: went to Gill's office and observed two female employees cleaning
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: out David Ferry's desk. Okay, she saw a chart or
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: a sketch, and what caught her eye, Joe, was the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: fact that this chart had ELM written on what appeared
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: to be a street. There was also a building, and
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: on the street was the square with the letters VIP
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: written in the square. Missus Gay stated that she remarked
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: to the receptionist that this should be turned over to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: the FBI. The receptionist then picked it off the desk
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: and threw it in the trash can, stating that it
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: was nothing but chicken scratch. Missus Gay stated that she
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: then took the document from the trash can, stating that
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: she would give it to the FBI. The receptionist then
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: grabbed it back and said, you bitch, I told you
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: it's nothing. Now, she didn't really say that, but it
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: went kind of something like that. The receptionist then grabbed
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: a document from Missus Gay's hand, ripped it up, and
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: again threw it in the trash can. Now, Missus Gay
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: seemed to be about sixty years old, reasonably intelligent, slightly nervous,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: but very cooperative. She appears to be the type of
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: individual that likes to see justice prevail. This is from
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: a Captain Fred Soule sor I guess who helped interview
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Bootsy Gay. Now, the reason that's important, Joe, is because
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: we heard from Thomas Beckham right and his audience statement
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: to the HSCA talking about some documents that he took
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: from g Ray Gill's office to Dallas to Lawrence Howard
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: that appeared to be a package with sketches, okay in
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: pictures and what appeared to be hand drawn maps. So
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: I just thought that was interesting because it kind of corroborates. Yeah,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Thomas Beckham.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: And even if it was sixty nine right, you said
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: that this interview.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Was Yeah, Thomas Beckham had not come out and said
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: any of this stuff yet took the.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Words right out of my mouth exactly right, So that
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: that is corroboration. That is very interesting. And I think
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: we covered a little bit about this when we did
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: our GeV Ray Gill segment, probably a few months ago,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: but very very interesting.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: And if I had one more thing before we get
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: to Jules Kimball here. I don't know why I print
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: stuff off all the time, and I'm just like, oh, oh,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: that's a good tidbit.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Printing out of things.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, don't ask me for links, folks, because, like I
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: say in the episode of past I print stuff out
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: when done with the episode, it goes right in the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: trash can. Asked me where I got it. I don't know.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you have a trash can in your backyard?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: You just burn all the docks you print out.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, burn barrel.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. Uh.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: This is a memorandum for the lead file in the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Garrison Office regarding notes made by David Ferry at the
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: bottom of Fairies article on cancer. I guess they retrieved
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: document from his apartment or some files after his death.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: But at the bottom of Fairy's article on cancer, there's
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: a portion of notes made by him, but on another
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: sheet of paper. This was apparently picked up on the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: photostat machine when they made copies of his cancer article,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: and obviously was not intended to be preserved. It appears
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: that a letter or memo which he had made concerning
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: his private activities was accidentally stuck in the photostat machine,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: leaving us the bottom portion of his memorandum. The portion
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: which was reproduced reads as follows, quote dot dot dot,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: round faced hyphen cross filed file Kay quote dot dot
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: dot man Bill Dalzel, parentheses, Billy Littlehorse. Some of Bee's
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: microfilm were sent to Atlanta right wingers Dash. Many of
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: original files are at Guy.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Johnson's Guy Johnson's.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I think Guy Johnson, if I'm not mistaken, was one
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: of the guys that Guy Banister and him formed that
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: freak committee to freak Cuba or whatever it was. Yeah,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: could be wrong, or he was a big he was
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: a big wheel in in New Orleans. Tray. I'm sure
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: we'll yes tray before he hit the landfill. Yes, uh.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: But interesting we have Faery mentioning number one Bill Dalzel, yeah,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: knowing his nickname Billy Littlehorse, big Man, Little Horse. Episode
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: of something, and it says some of Bees I'm assuming
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Bill's micro film now was alleged that Bill Dalzel is
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: a CIA asset infiltrating these left wing anti Casher organizations.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Some of Bee's micro film was sent to Atlanta right wingers.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Many of original files are at Guy Johnson's. So these
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: guys had some kind of a network set up down there.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Man when it comes to Ferry and Dalzel and you
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: know Martin, I mean, all these people are all tied
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: together and all this. And who is a very prominent
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: right wing person from it in Atlanta? Joe, I don't know.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I I jas.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Here, Oh right, he was from Atlanta. Yeah, who famously
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: caught on tape saying that the president would be killed
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: from a high powered rifle from a from an office building.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, bucket ass eighty eight? All right, without further
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: ado at ye?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: And what one more Atlanta thing? Rob if you yes,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I remember when we were looking through the gay nineties
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and James River Martin was talking about that. He mentioned
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: an executive from Atlanta came to visit him one night.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember these things, and Atlanta stuck out to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: me because I was like, who from Atlanta? And I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: think it was I don't know if you said Clay
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Martin or it was something regarding that, but he he
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: had someone he said was from Atlanta. He didn't know
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: his name, come and visit.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Very friends of Democratic There we go, will uh friends
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: of Democratic Cuba is what it was. God Johnson's yah,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: thank you?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: So so Yeah, yeah, Atlanta's doesn't come up a lot,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: but you can kind of narrow it down. When it
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: does almost right, it seems.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Like, yeahs Russo's papers have an interview with Dalzel. Russo
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: uses to state that Dalzel was career Cia asset folks.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: So the fact that Ferry knows who he is and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: is mentioning, you know, stuff about microfilm and all this,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, what else could you conclude from
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: all that? And speaking of uh Ferry a little bit.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty seven, the Garrison Investigation stumbles across Jules
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Rico Kimball. It says, this is a conversation transcript with
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Louis Ivan and Jules Kimball. Several weeks ago, James Alcock
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: received a telephone call from a subject who identified himself
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: as James Jules Kimball. He stated he had information that
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: would be helpful in our president investigation. He stated that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: he would like to meet with us in the rear
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: of the y w c A. I guess that's a
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Young Woman's yeah, whatever it Isiation Center for Activity, I
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: don't know, not the y m c A. The y
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: w c A. Arrangements were made whereas James Alcock and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: myself were to meet with him. Upon arrival in the
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: parking lot at the rear of the YWCA above, agents
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: were approached by Jules Kimball, who got into the rear
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: seat of the automobile and requested we take a little ride.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: We then drove to the Fountain Blue Motel where we
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: had some coffee. At this time Alcock asked him what
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: information he had. He stated that today or the day
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: after or two days after David Ferry died Okay, Jack
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Helm had had him drive him to Fairies Home on
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Louisiana Avenue Parkway. Upon arrival at Faerries Home, Helm got
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: out of his automobile and went to the rear of
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: the house and within a few minutes came out carrying
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: a large package like a briefcase. He stated that Helm
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: didn't have enough time to go into the house, but
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: he believed that Helm either went to the rear steps
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: or in the garage behind. He stated that Helm placed
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: whatever he had gotten from Faerries home in a safety
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: positive box. Location unknown, but he would attempt to get
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: the location and would photos out a copy and turn
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: it over to us. He stated that he had no
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: college of a flight that David Ferry took to Canada.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: He thought it was involving some minute Men operation. Kmbrill
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: further stated that he knew Guy Banister and that Banister
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: belonged to the Minutemen organization. He stated that they had
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: in operation a camp in Saint Bernard Parish headed by
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: a man named Fred Lewis Lewich and his son Lewick.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: He would not tell us the location, but offered to
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: take us to the site blindfolded. He stated they train
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: on the weekends and have a cash of weapons used
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: by both the Klan and the Minutemen organization. So this
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: is not a Cuban anti Cuban exile training camp. This
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: is the White Boys, this is the klueplus Klan and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: the Minutemen. Okay, they are training for race war. While
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: driving him back to his automobile, he started talking about
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the recent bombing in baton Rouge of Victor Bussey's house
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: and of a colored school teacher. He stated that these
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: two bombings happened in the same night and where she
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: where the planes were drawn up were in his house.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: He stated jack Helm attended with several other clansmen, so
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: he's basically saying jack Helm was behind these bombings and
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: was high up in the KKKH. Albert Collier, who was
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: a camp driver in the city who always carries a
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: gun with him, volunteered along with Clearance House, who was
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: employed somewhere in Saint Bernard Parish Coca Cola company. He
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: said that he didn't know who the third man was
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: at this time, but it overheard him tell the others
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: with about meeting someone in bat Rouge. So those are
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: the other guys involved in his bombing. So a couple
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: of weeks later, on October tenth, nineteen sixty seven, they
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: had to sit down with Jewles Rago kimball A white
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: male at the time twenty four years old, and they
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: had him give them an official statement and sign it.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: So this is his alcohol. Yep, yep, yep, yep, it says.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: I met David Ferry in early nineteen sixty in a
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: bar room named the Golden Lantern in the French Quarter.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: I would see Dave from time to time in the
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: same bar, and I flew with him in his airplane
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: on several occasions. M One night, drinking in the Golden Lantern,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Dave introduced me to clay Shaw. I was with clay
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Shaw and Dave for several hours that night, which was
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: in late sixty or sixty one. From that time on,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: I used to see clay Shaw on different occasions, you know,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: drinking and so forth. One day in late sixty one
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: or early sixty three, two sorry, I received a phone
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: call from Dave and he asked me if I would
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: like to take an overnight plane trip with him. I said,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: all right, let's go, and then met Ferry at the airport,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: at which time I found out that clay Shaw was
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: coming with us Joe. At this time I also found
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: that we were going to have a lot of time
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: in the back of the airplane together. At this time
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: I found out wait, yes, okay, this time I also
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: found out that we were going to Canada to pick
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: someone up. That is a long flight. In the back seat,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: clay Shaw.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to probably make a refueling
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: stop or two or more right at New Orleans to Canada.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know. No other explanation was given. While on
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: the trip, clay Shaw sat in the back of the
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: airplane reading books and slept. Shaw also had a brown
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: briefcase with him on the flight. We stopped at different
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: places to gas up. There's an answer to your question
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: and stretch our legs. We stopped in Nashville, Joe shout
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: out in Nashville, Doug. Yeah, we stopped in Louisville, Kentucky.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: And we stopped in Toronto, Canada, Canadian. Our final stop
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: was Montreal. Ferry and myself stayed in a hotel that night.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: I believe it might have been the Hilton. The hotel
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: was located in Montreal. Yeah. Sorry, it's hard to read.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: Clay Shaw disappeared after we landed and I did not
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: see him until the next morning. He was with another guy.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: This guy was kind of heavy set, dark complexion, balding
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: in the front in his early thirties or middle thirties,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: and it was a appeared to be a Cuban. And
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: this guy rode in the plane with them back to
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: New Orleans. But I didn't catch his name. Joe didn't
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: catch it, of course, not of course, not about our
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: month too Later, I got another phone call from Ferry
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: asking me if I wanted to make the return trip
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: with him to Canada, but I told him no. Uh,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: he says. I would also like to state that about
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: two or three weeks after David Ferry died, I got
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: a phone call from Jack Helms, who was formerly with
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the federal government and later connected with the Ku Klux Klan,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: asking me if I would take a ride with him
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: by Fairy's house to pick up some papers. We drove
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: to Fairiy's house and parked a little way down the block.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Jack got out, went with a flashlight I guess it
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: was uh at night, and he disappeared around the back
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: of the house or into the backyard. A short while later,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: he came back with a black briefcase and got into
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: the automobile, at which time we drove off. Later, I
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: believed that the contents of the briefcase were put into
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: a safety deposit box at the Bank of Louisiana. Later,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: I believe that these papers were removed from the Bank
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: of Louisiana and put into the into a eight black
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: box in Saint Bernard Parish which belonged to the clan.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: The fellow who kept this box is called Otto Skorzeny.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Not too many people named Otto.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Shit. Let's see. I did manage to get some papers
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: from this black box, but they pertained to the clan,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: and I turned these papers over to Clement Hood, an
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: FBI agent I was working for at the time. I
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: also had contact with CIA agents, their names being Steinmeier
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: who was being transferred to Texas, A Nat Brown who
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: is still in New Orleans, and another guy by the
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: name of Red last name unknown. I used to have
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: meetings with the agents in different motel rooms where I
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: would give them reports, pictures, recordings, et cetera. And also
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: would receive my paycheck or cash which I would sign
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: a voucher for and would also receive their instructions sometimes
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: when they were mail different things to me at my
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: post office box number which is seven oh one three
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: h two five to two Lafayette Street branch. So this
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: guy's basically saying they worked for the FBI and the
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: CIA giving them information in return for money, money, money,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: money money. They asked me questions such as, do I
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: know Clay Shaw, did I ever fly with Clay Shaw
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: and David Ferry? If I knew Gene Davis, which I
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: told them that I knew Gene Davis very well because
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: he was a personal friend of mine. Now, of course,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Gene Davis Joe is the Dean ANDREWS Clay bertrand the
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: guy that owned the court of the two Sisters that
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: allegedly had Lee Harvey Oswald standing upstairs for a short while.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: Mister Hood told me not to get involved with the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: District Attorney's office and if the DA's office tried to
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: subpoena me that he would take care of it. Mister
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: Hood told me to give all the cooperation necessary that
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: Walter Sheridan required. Sheridan and Townly also told me not
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: to talk with the DA's office and to call them
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: right away so they could get an attorney for me.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: And that is about all I can remember at this time.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Jules Rico Kimball, now Garrison was a smart man. Joe,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and there was a lot of these people
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: and characters that they talked to in New Orleans that
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: he knew he could not use as witnesses in the
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: clay Shaw trial because they just wouldn't stand up to
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: cross examination, or they didn't look good as a witness,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: or something was wrong that they couldn't really you know,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: that's why he couldn't put Jack Martin, you know, as
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: a witness on the witness stand, even though he was
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: a very important witness. He didn't ever call Jack Martin
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: part of the clay Shaw trial. Yeah.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, what you need to put someone on the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: witness stand is a lot different than what you would
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: need to interview them or get some information. That's a different,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: different level of kind of verification you have to do
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: before you put people on the stand or also look terrible. Yeah,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: so what she did in a couple of witnesses, as
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: we've discussed.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so we know Harold Weisberg was working with
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: with Garrison there for a little while in New Orleans.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: And in a letter, I guess somebody wrote missus Sarah
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: Teal of the of Teal Productions, New York Center for
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Visual History, New York. I just wrote Wiseberger letter asking
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: about his opinion on Jules Rico Kimball. This is in
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, and Wiseburg says, Dear Sarah, as you
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: may recall from when you were here, my office has
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: been something of a disaster since the last of my
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: post op complications. Of course, it wouldn't be a Wisberg
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: letter without learning about his debilitating health conditions and his
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: fiber eurosis in his legs or whatever he's got going
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: on there. In another one of the endless efforts to
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: clean up the accumulations, today, I came across some CIA
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: records I got about a month ago and didn't file
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: for a reason I didn't remember. I've copied the first
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: and third pages of one of the records. It then
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: disclosed to me, meaning about six months ago, that it
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: generated internally as it's assessed the Garrison mishmash. When the
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: Johns were last here, one of them said that Phil
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: Mellinson had told them that I expressed a high opinion
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: of the Murking conspiracy. This was a book that Phil
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Mullanson wrote about the Martin Luther King assassination. I told
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: him in response only that had it not discussed his
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: book with Phil and that I had never expressed any
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: such opinion of it. I had read and annotated it
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: before they were here at that time. However, and to
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: the best of my recollection, I've given a copy of
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: my memo to only two college professor friends, both of
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: whom teach assassination courses. I write you because, as you remember,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: my last letter was returned from England after some delay.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: I write because I believe they asked me about one
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Jules Kimball, and that I told them I believe he
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: is a phony of fraud, and I may have given
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: them an FBI record or two. I don't recall, although
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: I do recall searching that file and making copies. I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: can't now check the book because I gave it already
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: gave it to Hood College, where all my materials will go,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: and so that it can now be available to students there.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: It is a fine, small local college, one all girls,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: and now virtually that. But I believe that Mellinson also
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: made a big thing out of Kimball as CIA in Canada.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: It is for this reason that I enclosed these two pages,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: the first to identify the source, and the second because
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: it says that the head court, that at headquarters, the
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: CIA has nothing at all on Kimball, so he says, besides,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: I began believing him to be a phony. So Wiseberg
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: is not a fan of Jules Rigo Kimball. He thought
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: he was full of crap right now. What he sent
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: her were two FBI documents, or maybe in one internal document,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: one FBI document, and the first one is the CIA
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: document from September seventeenth, sixty seven, Memorandum number six subject
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: Garrison and the Kennedy assassination. Since the Garrison investigation, the
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: first publicized in February of sixty seven, we have kept
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: book on all persons in the case one hundred and
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: thirty nine to date. Of these, one hundred and three
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: have been named traced. Not traced were Louisiana state legislatures
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: who have commented on the investigation, judges and various lawyers
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: and others on the periphery. The results of the traces
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: as follows, and this is heavily redacted as you can see, yep,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: but it says two persons, Donald P. Norton and Gordon
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: Dwayne Novelle publicly but falsely claimed affiliation with the CIA
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: by memorandum of nine August sixty seven. Blah blah blah,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: Donald P. Norton in an interview published in Vancouver, Canada
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: on August eight, sixty seven, it claimed to be an
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: XCI employ employee who had delivered one hundred and fifty
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars to David Ferry were transferred to Cuba and
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: who picked up from redacted. Blah blah blah.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of money.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of money.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: It's over a mel back then now.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: And on August the fourth, sixty seven, the DCS office
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: received a telephone call from a man who identified himself
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: as Jules Rico Kimball of Vicksburg Street in New Orleans.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: So in August of sixty seven, this guy's calling the CIA.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: Kimball, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: He said that Garrison was trying to connect him with CIA,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: but that he did not know why. He added the
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: Garrison quote, accused him of having taken some papers from
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: the residents of David Ferry on the day after Fairy's death,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: and added that he would appear on WDSUTV New Orleans
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: the same day. All headquarters checks on Kimball were negative.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: In response to inquiry the DCS office in New Orleans
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: reported that on August twenty first, sixty seven, Jules Rico
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: Kimball is not in the telephone directory. The address he gave,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: seven thousand and three Vicksburg Street is listed as vacant.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: To the best knowledge of the office, no one named
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: Kimball has appeared on a WDSUTV interview. So what in
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: the sam hell's going on around here? I just read
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: you his signed statement to Garrison where he said all
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: this stuff, this is what we did. I went there
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: with Helm and then he calls the CIA and tells them, well,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: Garrison's accusing me of doing this, and Garrison's accusing me
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: of doing that, and he pretty much told him he
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: had that he works for the FBI and the CIA,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: And now he's calling the CIA saying, hey, the Garrison's
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: claiming I work for you. So it sounds to me
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: like this guy is trying to run both sides of
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: the fence here. But for what reason? I don't get it.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, who who really calls the CIA, like
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: looks up the number and.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Calls uh, yeah, you know. But he's telling Garrison one thing,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: and he's calling them and telling them something different, right, Like,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: what the hell is going on here?
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, did you not know that like Garrison kept
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: like all the files and statements and interviews. I don't know,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: I'm top of my apitype Yeah, Or did he know
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: the CIA would have his back against Garrison as we
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: know they were, you know, thrilled, you know, they were
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: looking into jurors. So maybe he knew he had an
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: ally calling them, right, I don't know.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Again, he was making an ally with Garrison by telling him, Hey,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: we stole files out a Ferry's apartment. You know, I
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: went on a plane with David Ferry and Clay Shaw
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: to Canada and we came back with a Cuban.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, it seems like if you were to
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: make something up like that, you probably wouldn't make up
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: something as far as Canada, right, unless there were some
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: truth to it. I don't know, Like why wouldn't you
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: say Kentucky or like one of their stops or.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So next, we have a CIA memorandum
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: subject Garrison and the Kennedy assassination Jules Rigo Kimball. Number one.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Subject is the subject of an FBI report knew New
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: Orleans Office dated September or December sixteenth, nineteen sixty five,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: which was two years before all this. He is also
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: the subject of an FBI Headquarters report Bureau file one
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: five seven four four is he were three from January
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: sixty six, Then there's a lot of redactive. There is
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: no record of subject in the central CIA file or
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: in subsidiary records consulted. So again they're looking internally to
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: see if this guy is working for the CIA, or
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: if one of their agents is running this guy as
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: an asset or something like that, but they can't find it.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: An alias or we saw the same thing with Jack Martin. Right,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: was Jack Martin? This guy? Was he that guy? And
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: internally from the CIA.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: To Kimball, he flew with Ferry to Montreal in nineteen
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: sixty two on minute man business. Shortly thereafter, he telephoned
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: his wife from Atlanta and said that he had met
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: his CIA contact. Kimball told investigators from Garrison's office that
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: he once worked on special assignments for the CIA. He
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: alleged that he had recontacted CIA after Walter Sheridan of
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: NBC had advised him to say nothing to Da Garrison
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: and go to Canada. It would be appreciated if the
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: FBI provided any additional information that it may have about
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: the allegations in the preceding paragraph or about the subject.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: As was noted above, we have no record of any
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: association between this agency, the CIA, and Kimball. So this
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: was actually a letter to the FBI. Now what's interesting
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: here is that they knew, they knew that Kimball told
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: Garrison that he worked special assignments for the CIA. How
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: the hell did the CIA know that probably had a
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: bowl and Garrison's office.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was going to say, or Daniel
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: Marts out, Great minds out.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Now on March fifth, nineteen sixty eight. This is to
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Jegar Hoover or no, I'm sorry. This is to the
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Director of Central Intelligence from Jaegar Hoover concerning Jewels we
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: Go Kimball. Reference is made to your letter dated February
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: twenty seventh, sixty eight. Caption Garrison and the Kennedy assassination,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: Jewels we Go Kimball. A check of our files disclosed
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: no information bearing on the allegations about subjects. As reported
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: in the January sixty eight issue of Ramparts magazine, Pertinent
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: Information identifiable with Oh okay, So I guess William Turner
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: wrote it up in Ramparts magazine that this is what
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: Kimball told the garrison. So it was not from a spy,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: well it kind of was, William Turner. Pertinent information identifiable
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: with Kimball as contained in our files as being assembled
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: and will be furnished your agency by separate communication. Note.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: Ramparts magazine for January sixty eight reports the subject have
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: been in contact with David Ferry, who, according to the
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: New Orleans District Attorney, was involved in a conspiracy to
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: assassinate President Kennedy. Ramparts also reports that Kimball has worked
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: on special assignments for the CIA, and there it is.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: CIA has denied this and requested data in our files
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: bearing on Ramparts allegations. So yeah, interesting. I have here
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: a note from Richard Barnaby, who is a Canadian researcher,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: to Wiseberg in March seventeen sixty nine, note to file
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: a lawyer of Jules Rico. Kimball told Carl McRae of
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: the Toronto Star that Kimball went with David Ferry and
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: Clay Shaw on two trips to Montreal and the summer
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: of sixty three, and on one of the trips, Shaw
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: left Kimball and Ferry and visited somewhat of importance in Montreal.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: Could it have been Major L N. Bloomfield question mark?
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: And then returned to New Orleans with a Cuban. Kimball
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: says the Cuban was to be used in the jfk
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: assassination as a shooter. Interesting, So let's fast forward a
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: little bit because we're we're running short on time. But
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: I've got I did find some good stuff to kind
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: of illuminate what kind of a guy this Jewels Kimbo Kimball.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: Is, Rob? Can I interrupt you for a second?
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: Sure?
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: I just want Dave Sparks guy Johnson h O and
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: I in New Orleans, attorney friend of Bernard Fenser.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: Bold, Yes, O N I in New Orleans. Yes, thank you,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: Uncle Dave.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: YEP and one more. Mister Trey Shaw supposedly flew to
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: Canada to facilitate nickel shipments from Cuba to get around
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: the embargo. Freeport Sulfur in New Orleans needed nickel to
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: keep their facility facility operating.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: Hum, there's a rabbit hole. I have not gone down
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: yet the whole Freeport sulfur nickel debacle.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah but interesting, Yeah, very thank you, Thank you both,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Dave and Trey. So pray continuer.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm trying to get up to where I need
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: Sorry. Tre said. The Nickel story could be a cover,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: very possible, a tiny dancer. Maybe it was gun running.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: If how much guns you could fit in whatever plane.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing it was probably like a like a Sessna,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: like a four seater, and I actually used to fly
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: the two seater Flessna Sessna's, so I don't know how
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: many guns you could fit in that type of plane,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: but you never know.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: All Right, here it is, I came across this is
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: a document. We'd have three people's names and addresses on it.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: That's it. The first one is Jules Kimball, seven three
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: Vicksburg with the phone number. The next is Jack.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: Helms in Vicksburg, Louisiana, No.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: Vicksburg Street, New Orleans.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: Jack helm the guy he said that he drove to
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: Ferry's apartment and grabbed the briefcase lives on Pine Street,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: uh in Saint Louis, Missouri. And then the third name.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: Cloth was on Pine Street.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: The third name on here, Joe. Yeah, and hopefully you
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: can see it.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's it's a little faded.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: I cannot see it, Sir Jack Cannon, Imperial Wizard of
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: the Texas Klan. Now the reason that stands out to
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: me is the because that's who meathead, I mean, Rob
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: Reiner named as a shooter in his JFK podcast, Jack
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: Cannon the IAI said, yeah, I remember. It's interesting that
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: the Jules Kimball can be tied to that guy. So
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: there's some things make you say, hmm, well, this guy's
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: full of crap. But then you see him throw a
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: name out there that he shouldn't know.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, before it was known. That's always a red
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: flag something you got to pay attention to, right like
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: Martine in his book naming David Morales in nineteen sixty three,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: when David Morales was known for probably three or four
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: decades after that. You gotta pay attention to those type
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: of things.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, you do, you sure do so. Sorry, pardon me
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: for not being more organized. All good, that's just more
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: bullet hit. Okay, here we go.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: Very interesting about he names Cannon because I remember when Reiner,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: uh named Cannon. It was who is this guy? I
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: think you and Doug had done something on quick Hits
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: and found he was very active and anti Castro Cubans.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: He definitely was a CIA asset in the least probably more.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we found him in that uh uh I believe
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: it now Santiago document.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, there you go. So I it's very like
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: intriguing here for sure, because this is late sixties you
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: saying this right?
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, all right. So next up, I have a
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: couple articles from the Times Pecune, The New Orleans Times Pecune,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: August thirty first, nineteen sixty eight. Hanville, Louisiana Jewels Are Kimball,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: twenty five of New Orleans Friday face charges here of
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: falsely obtained papers, of using falsely obtained papers to impersonate
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: a registered male nurse. Saint Charles Parish Sheriff Joseph or
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: John O Saint im said Kimball was arrested after he
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: had worked one and a half days at an industrial
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: plant in Taft, where he obtained employment with papers allegedly
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: stolen from a registered male nurse. He was booked at
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: the courthouse with possession of stolen goods and forgery and
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: is being held for Baton Rouge police and for probation authorities.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: Saint Emmitt SI Kimball is also wanted in Baton Rouge
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: on two bench warrants charging him with impersonating a doctor
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: and was attempting to steal twelve hundred and sixty dollars.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: He is being held for probation authorities, the sheriff said,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: because he's currently serving a two year probation period imposed
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: by Criminal District Court Judge Malcolm excuse Me O'Hara in
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: New Orleans. Saint Ammitt sent Kimball, who gave six different
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: New Orleans addresses as his residents, used papers he stole
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: from Thomas Landis, a registered male nurse, to obtain employment
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: at the Saint Charles Parish plant. He said. The theft
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: occurred in Parish Prison in New Orleans on July twentieth,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: while Kimball was awaiting trial before judj O'Hara. Landis was
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: also confined in the prison at the time. Kimball, who
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: was a hall boy in the prison at the time
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: of the theft, used land as his name and his
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: nurse's registration papers after his release on probation to obtain
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: the nursing position at Saint Charles Parish sheriff said Saint
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Emmittson Kimball also worked for four days at the New
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: Orleans Hospital under an assumed name, and sought employment at
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: three other hospitals. Kimball was exposed when Saint Charles Parish
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: Hospital nurse who knew Landis told authorities Kimball did not
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: resemble the man she knew is Landis. Saint emmitt said
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: his office received a bulletin about the same time from
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: the Nurses Association warning about the theft of Landis's registration papers.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: And you wonder why Garrison couldn't use it this guy.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's not all he would get.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: That was all maybe we could overlook. Yeah, I mean
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: he's in prison and he's he's stealing other prisoners in prison.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: So he was in prison at the time Garrison would
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: have called him.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: I think he was in and out, in and out lots. Yah,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: he was on probation to warrants. He was getting arrested
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: for all kinds of shit.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, but yeah, you would like impuing the character
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: easily as like even a public defender lawyer against.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be hard. So June fifth, nineteen sixty eight
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: from The Times Pecune. A young man who last year
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: claimed to have inside information on KKK operations was arrested
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: today when a charge of conducting illicit checking operations accused
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: him make himself fourteen hundred and five dollars richer at
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: the expense of the Bank of New Orleans. Was Jules
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: Rico Kimball. Police claimed Kimball affected the theft by manipulating
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: check stolen from an industrial firm where he was employed
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: as a clerk from April twenty fourth to May tenth.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: In June of last year, Kimball left Louisiana, claiming he
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: had witnessed plans to bomb the homes of a labor leader,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: Victor Bussey, and a Negro woman in Port Allen, and
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: that his life was in danger. He was arrested, however,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: in Miami last October on charges of parole violation in
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Avoyelle's Parish, and agreed to return to Louisiana on charges
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: of non support of his family. He then appeared before
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: the Baton Rouge Grand Jury in connection with the Bussy
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: bombing the same month. Kimball was also arrested in New
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: Orleans on May twenty first on charges of impersonating police,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: carrying a concealed weapon, assault, and forgery. He had been
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: arrested in Baton Rouge in February and charged with attempted
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: theft and impersonating a doctor. Discussing Kimball's latest running the
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: Law run in with the Law, Sergeant Ronald Kennedy and
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: Detective Nick Chetta alleged that he stole a number of
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: checks from the industrial firm and deposited them in a
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: special bank account under a phony firm name. He then
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: began making withdrawals using names of legitimate companies, police claimed.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: When he was arrested, Kimball was out on a four thousand,
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty dollars bond. Police said a four
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five dollars check he wrote to the
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: bond company bounced. Imagine that's not all. January eighth, nineteen
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: sixty seven, New Orleans Times Pecune now Saint Louis, Missouri
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: dateline or timeline or whatever it is, tentative agreement for
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: the sale of the Saint Louis Hawkes. Joe of the
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: National Basketball says she that's the NBA For those who
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: are not abbreviate abbreviatory league gifted. I believe it's the
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: term was announced here Saturday. Now you might be thinking, Joe,
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: what the hell does a sale of a basket NBA
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: basketball team have to do with Jules Rico Kimball.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was thinking.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: Well, damn, I'll tell you you love this. Michael j. Obashon,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: general counsel for the New Orleans Group, said the team
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: will be sold for three million, eight hundred thousand dollars
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: subject to the acceptance of the offer by the team owner,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: Ben Kerner. A deadline of five pm Wednesday, January eighteenth,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: has been set for the acceptance of the offer by
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: mister Kerner. Obashon indicated the interim period was requested by
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: Kerner to allow local or other interests to the New
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: Orleans Groups offer with the object of keeping the club
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: in Saint Louis of no local or other group comes.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: If no local or other group comes up with a
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: matching offer with the expressed idea of keeping the Hawks
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: in Saint Louis by the deadline, the New Orleans offer
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: will be accepted. Obershawn said, representing the New Orleans Group,
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: which is known as the New Orleans Professional Basketball Associates,
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: where Sean Morton Downey, executive director of the Association, otherwise
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: known as Morton Downey Junior's son. Maybe you've heard of him.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: He's probably before your time, though. He's a cigarette smoking
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: talk show host, very very funny.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, I recognize his name, but.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Executive director of the Association, j R. Kimball, Association
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: vice president, and their legal counsel Steve R. Plotkin, later
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: Gordon Develle's attorney. The group was scheduled to arrive back
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans at nine to fifty pm Saturday. The
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: original members of the NOPBA were Terry Gamila, Ronnie Cole,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: and Buddy Dilberto. Added to the group last week were
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: civil court Judge David Gertie, Pete Fountain, Henry Braden Here's
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: the hell of a last name for you, Henry Braiden,
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: Kimball Plotkin, and Buck Craze Buck Grase.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: Uh oh Man.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: Downey's father was one of the country's best known popular
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: singers in the thirties and forties. His theme song was
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: Carolina Moon. The Elder. Downey, now sixty five, is in
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: Palm Beach Florida and is no longer in show business.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: I believe he was also a friend of the Kennedy family.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: Saint Louis Post dispatched January sixth one, New Orleans backer
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: of Hawks deal pulls out. Kimball withdrawal won't affect deal down,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: he says. Jules Rico. Kimball, vice president of the New
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Orleans syndicate that agreed Saturday to buy the Hawks, said
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: today he was pulling out of the group Joe, and
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: then his action would collapse the three million, eight hundred
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars conditional purchase. However, Sean M. Downey, president of
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans Group, said Kimball's withdrawal will have no
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: effect on the conditional sale because Kimball was the smallest
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: investor of the thirteen man association.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't seem like someone that would have much money. Yeah,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: or or because you know when these days, when like
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: certain groups try to buy certain like professional leagues, you
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: have to have like a bunch of people worth tens
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: or hundreds of millions of dollars like come in together
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: to get the billions that now I think it's around
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: forty million ish today that the team that's a lot. Yeah,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. So how much could.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: Jules Well, i'll tell you, all right, real Kimball and down.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: He disagreed on how much Kimball had agreed to invest,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: and also over the reason for Kimball's withdraw Kimball, in
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: a telephone conversation with the Post Dispatch, said he was
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: committed to invest at least half of the thirty three million,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand, but Down, he said Kimball's share was
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: actually one hundred and fifty thousand. Kimball gave two reasons
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: for his withdrawal and two separate telephone calls. First, he
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: said he was pulling out because the team was going
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: to stay in Saint Louis and that there were never
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: any plans to move it, and that he did not
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: want to be made a fool by serving such as
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: an instrument in such developments. In the second call, he
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: said he was drawing because there were several persons in
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: the thirteen million group with whom he did not want
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: to be associated. He said that he not been made
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: aware of their identities when he first committed his money
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: to the syndicate. Down, he said Kimball had given him.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: Another reason, Kimball had insisted his own attorney handles the
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: sales transaction. I couldn't make that commitment to him, said Downey.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not the big money man in the syndicate. I
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: can't dictate terms as to who would be the attorney
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: down he said. I just put the syndicate together, but
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not the money man. He said he had no
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: money invested among the three million, eight hundred thousand. So
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: this guy Downy doesn't even have any skin in the
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: game in this, right, Yeah, he's just putting it together.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: Probably a mason a commission maybe, right.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: He said. The deposit by his group was for exceedingly
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: less than the one hundred and fifty thousand which Kimball
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: had pledged. However, he said he had agreed not to
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: disclose the amount that had been deposited Saturday, when the
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: terms of the contract were agreed upon. Said the twenty
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: four year old Kimball was one of the New Orleans
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: men who signed a conditional agreement. Downey was the other. Now,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans syndicate that had apparently made a winning
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: bit of three point eight million for the Hawks group
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: regrouped after Sewan Downey, junior president of the syndicate, disclosed
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: that one of its members had misrepresented his financial worth.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: Downey told the Post Dispatch today that Jules Rico Kimball,
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: who had been described as having inherited one point five
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: million dollars, misrepresented his worth by about one million, four
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: hundred and ninety nine thou nine ninety nine dollars in
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: ninety nine cents.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: Did he actually give that number?
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, shit, yeah, okay. He said that the group
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: did not play legal action against the twenty six year
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: old Kimball, and said Kimball had quote accumulated some money
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: through investments, but then he found no indication to Kimball
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: was an heir to a fortune. The Hawks deal ended
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: up falling through, but down he went on to become
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: part of a group which received an ABA franchise, later
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: the Memphis Buccaneers. Yeah, so that's the kind of guy
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: Jules Rico Kimball.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: Was.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can't make this stuff up, folks.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: You said twenty six and he was trying to get
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: in on buying.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: A Yeah, I mean he's just an in and out
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: of jail, a fell in, a con man, a Thomas
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: Beckham type dude navigating his way through life by the
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: seat of his pants, and whatever happens happens.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: Joe, you know that I can respect that. I can
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: respect that.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, I love it.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: That is crazy. I have a couple of comments here,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: Rob I starred JFK Primary Resources. These other podcasts don't
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: necessarily check their facts. True, we do our best, Paula,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: Jane Trey Nola doesn't have a daily paper anymore. I
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: think they do. I don't know if it's the Pickyn still,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. And yeah, mister Uncle Dave, cases
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: made in hell don't have angels for witnesses. And a
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people love this comment comment of the night.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: He's referring to Jules being a witness.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: I believe, Yeah, yeah, but Jewles was a special kind
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: of of of a con man and thief. Probably wouldn't
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: have made for a good witness for Jolly Green Giant.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have to remember that the lawyers for
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: Shaw were not public defenders, right, these are These are professionals,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: these are top defense attorneys. They're gonna like they had
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: did with a few of Garrison witnesses. They'll tear them up, right.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: That's right. Well, that's about all we got for tonight, folks.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: Look listen to me. Hear me now, folks, we have
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: we will not be live next week. But but some
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: big butt caveat the size of making the stallion. But
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: we are going to have a show for you next
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: Friday night, and we are going to have a huge
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: lee famous guest, and no hints, We're not gonna tell
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: you who it is. You're gonna have to tune in
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: to find out. But you are not gonna want to
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: miss it. I promise you that we talk about this
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: guy all the time on this show. Yeah, and we
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: tracked down somebody who a lot of people are gonna
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: be very pleased to hear from on this show. For sure.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: It is I'm so excited. I'm not going to give
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: anything away. But when you see the title of the
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: show next week, next Friday, although we want to be
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: you're gonna love it. Yeah, this is an epic interview
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: come up. So if you're not subscribed right now when
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: you're watching, please hit the subscribe button, hit the like button.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: We are going to be crushing next week and I
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: can't wait, and you guys are ill love it.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: So and without further ado, Dino dances out of this bitch.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 6: In parish prison. He dare not talk for the record,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 6: but he said, come to Bourbon Street and I'll show
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 6: you what I think of the case. The greatest lies
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 6: are told in the name of truth, the greatest crimes
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 6: are committed in the name of justice. The rotation as
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 6: Jim Garrison's. It could be used for him or against
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 6: him in this strange case.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: Good Night,