Latest / Beyond Leadership - Adopting a Coaching Mindset / #07 - Letting Go: Testing Chaos in your Company

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#07 - Letting Go: Testing Chaos in your Company · Beyond Leadership - Adopting a Coaching Mindset

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  Good to see you. >> Good to see you. How are  you? >> Well, I'm fine. So, are you still in Abu  
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  Dhabi? >> No, I've arrived to my home like half  an hour ago. >> Oh, I'm glad to hear that. So,  
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  are we are we about ready to start? >> Yeah,  sure. That should >> Okay. Any questions  
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  before we begin? >> I'm all yours. >> Welcome to  Beyond Leadership. Adopting a coaching mindset.  
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  In this series, our conversations aren't about  biography or polished advice. They're about how  
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  decisions are made in the real world when the  pressure is on. We'll anchor on one situation  
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  where the path wasn't obvious, and explore  what goes on in the mind of a leader when  
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  confronted with real tradeoffs, imperfect  information, and the need to move anyway.  
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  This podcast is brought to you by Peer Plaza,  human help instantly. Alexander Masharov is the  
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  CEO of Kabka, a publicly listed circular plastics  company in Amsterdam. He started inside the  
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  business as an entrepreneur and eventually grew  into leading the whole organization as it expanded  
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  globally. His work sits at the intersection of  manufacturing, supply chains, and capital markets.  
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  But today, the situation is very different.  He is stuck, well, was stuck, we can say,  
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  because you've just gotten back from Abu Dhabi and  you're back in Amsterdam. But he was stuck in Abu  
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  Dhabi due to the airspace closures trying to run  the company remotely while customers, employees,  
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  and even family expectations keep moving. So tell  me uh now that you're back, why don't you let  
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  our listeners know what situation you were in? >>  First of all, thank you Michael for having me and  
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  yeah, the situation was quite simple. I was on a  business trip to India, Mumbai and I had a flight  
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  from Mumbai to Amsterdam connecting in Abu Dhabi.  Simply put, I landed in Abu Dhabi and I probably  
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  received 150 messages on my WhatsApp like the  hell break loose which was actually very uh quite  
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  the situation I would say because uh obviously  all the flights got cancelled the same morning.  
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  uh people running in the airport, you know,  people are just getting stuck. Bottom line,  
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  I have to say that uh because it's a connection  flight, the air carrier did take care of us. So,  
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  they moved us to a hotel, but then all the  airspace got closed. So, um all the >> When did  
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  you realize that this was not going to be a short  delay, but something that would last some time?  
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  Well, you know, uh once you open the news,  you understand there is a war going on and  
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  the last war I think was 12 days. So,  you understand that this time it's not  
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  going to be probably less than that because it was  combined Israeli forces with the US coming in. And  
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  uh the scariest thing was that you actually got uh  the Emirates involved in the situation. something  
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  that I don't believe was the last time at all and  um at the beginning I had the faith that actually  
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  I will be able to just continue somewhere but  I think in about two or 3 hours I understood it  
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  will take a day or three I couldn't yet believe  that the Emirates would close the airspace so  
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  completely for so many days because uh I think at  the last time Emirates operated very freely but  
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  uh the sooner They moved us to the hotel. I  think by midday it was already obvious that's  
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  not going to happen in the next two days. I booked  immediately one flight for the 3rd of March hoping  
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  because it was still available for sale. So I  just bought another ticket for 3rd of March. Uh  
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  that one obviously got cancelled. Then I booked  another flight for the 4th of March that was also  
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  got cancelled. So I bought like two tickets in  a row. Both of them got cancelled and eventually  
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  they said there's no flight to Amsterdam. You can  just replace with a barcode where you want to go.  
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  We might have a flight for you. There was a choice  between Munich, Milan, and something else. And  
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  eventually I landed in Barcelona yesterday. So it  was funny, but that was the only flight they got  
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  me booked in. So um but it was obviously uh clear  to I think me and uh a lot of people in the hotel  
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  because most of the hotel were people like me  got stuck. >> Sure. >> And you know >> when you  
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  realized that you were stuck what was the first  decision that you had to make that was uh vital?  
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  I think it was there is one personal related uh  one which is u how do I manage uh my family within  
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  that situation I wouldn't go into much details  but I had to make sure that those arrangements  
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  are being done and second one was probably work  related I had a very important meeting happening  
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  on Wednesday in Cologne with people flying in  from the United States commitments and it's a  
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  big customer >> and I understood that's not  going to happen. I very obvious was that I'm  
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  not going to reach Cologne by Wednesday. So um  I immediately asked for to dismiss that meeting  
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  uh or to postpone it. That was one and the other  one was uh also work related I would say and that  
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  has to do to check all the policies within our  company you know regarding extreme situations.  
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  So I wanted to make sure we are good with safety  measures if something happens. I wanted to make  
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  sure we are hedged properly in terms of uh oil  prices or things like this. So those are work  
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  related stuff. >> Sure. You travel quite a bit  but how is this time different than other times?  
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  Because you will often leave uh the company for  a few days but now this was different. I don't  
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  think it's about the location or whether you work  remotely or not. I think it's the combination of  
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  the three. You have complete uncertainty about  what's going to happen. What is the schedule of  
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  the next two weeks going to look like just an  example at a road show in uh London next week?  
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  Meetings are set. What are we doing? You know, uh  things like this. So there's complete uncertainty  
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  around your agenda obviously part of the company  agenda and also your personal agenda which has to  
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  do with your family. That uncertainty combined  with what the company is going through and it  
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  doesn't matter whether there is a crisis in the  company in one side or everything is going fine  
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  but there's always things to be done and  commitments like attending commitments if  
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  it's a customer meeting or business reviews or  even um just birthday to attend of a very good  
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  friend simple things I think the combination of  the uncertainty and u you know I think the most  
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  important uh element is you finally find yourself  not in control of the rhythm of what you need to  
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  do. You know what you need to do. You know that  your company is in good hands. You know also and  
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  that's also a good point to verify whether your  management team have the competencies to run the  
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  company even if tomorrow you don't have connection  because one of the things that ran into my mind  
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  was all right now we have Wi-Fi and the hotel is  fine but tomorrow they'll hit the 5G cell station  
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  you're there's no communication what happens there  and you don't think of that before you get into  
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  the spot because one of the things that happened  in Abu Dhabi is I think Abu Dhabi is not equipped  
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  with you know sirens and things like this. So  you don't have a lot of notifications about  
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  what's happening. You just hear the booms. >> This  would be a good moment to recap what is actually  
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  happening in Alexander's life right now. The war  in Iran has commenced and he is stranded in Abu  
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  Dhabi with no clear idea of when or how he will  be able to return home to his family. For now,  
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  he still has an internet connection. But how long  would that last? That is not a dramatic question.  
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  It is a practical and deeply relevant one. Anyone  who has lived through a catastrophic situation  
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  knows how fragile everything can suddenly feel,  especially the ability to stay in contact with  
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  people you love and to remain connected to your  business when the normal systems begin to break  
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  down. His account reminds me of arriving at my  hotel in Phuket the day after Christmas in 2004  
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  and being greeted by a tsunami just as I arrived  at my beachfront hotel. You simply don't know if  
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  you will be cut off from food and water, never  mind internet for a day, a week or even longer.  
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  And one thing that you will understand is okay  let's say not even about something heat in the  
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  hotel just communication act different reason is  does the company have the right protocols to run  
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  without you approving a PO for a minute and a half  or without your interference in the project how  
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  compatible is your team to run this big machine  without you >> and so did your team pass the test  
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  at 100% % or were there things that you think that  you're going to work on uh in the future? >> You  
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  always need to put things to a test and that was  a good test. Uh >> whether everyone scored a 100,  
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  no that would be a lie. Well, there is always  things to improve and I think specifically in  
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  terms of procedures, it's not about even the  people. I think the people are um are very  
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  much equipped to do the work. The question  is do they feel the freedom and do they have  
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  u do they have the back or do they feel secure  enough to make a decision with without CEO being  
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  online. >> That is not an easy thing to pressure  test but it is not impossible to gauge. Even a  
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  relatively simple survey could give you a useful  indication of how ready your executive team would  
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  be able to manage while you are incapacitated.  Yet, how many organizations have actually done  
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  that? >> What surprised you in a good way? >> What  surprised me in a good way? I think what surprised  
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  me that in terms of business, the business  runs. So, no one is panicking and I like it.  
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  I like that the people are not in panic. So, that  surprises me. So, people are worried about you,  
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  but they're not in panic. No one is going into  some kind of a distress. No one disconnects.  
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  No one you know that that I think is very  important. I also like the fact that people  
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  do not feel dependent and you know don't call you  every second time is are you okay? Are you okay?  
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  You know actually I think uh the normal behavior  under pressure circumstances creates stability.  
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  Let's think about that. Normal behavior under  pressured circumstances creates stability. In  
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  other words, if Alexander's team can continue to  operate with disciplined, predictable judgment  
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  while he is out of contact, the business becomes  far less dependent on his constant availability.  
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  His absence may create pressure but it should  not create paralysis because if everyone is  
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  going to panic then that's what the company's  going to be busy about. The CEO is stuck the  
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  CEO said that's not that didn't happen. Actually,  I was happy. Most of the people even didn't know  
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  I was stuck. And that made me happy because that  means it didn't cascade down, which is perfect.  
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  You don't want that to cascade down. You don't  want the company to be busy with what happened.  
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  You want the company to run. And then by now, by  the way, most of the people in the company don't  
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  even know that, >> which is beautiful. >> Well,  is there another side to that? Maybe is there the  
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  feeling that hey maybe they don't realize what  I do for this company? >> Yeah. Well, I think  
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  I think the people appreciate uh stability more  than I think even if you tell them you know okay  
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  there is a situation if there is no good reason  to worry then why would you do that? Everyone  
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  has the TV and everyone can read the news, but  that's about it. None. I wouldn't say everyone  
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  needs to be worried about what's going to happen.  >> If the situation had gone on for two or three  
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  more weeks and you couldn't get back and you were  still cut off, what do you think would have broken  
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  first? >> What would have broken first? probably  the webcast of our financials that uh happened  
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  this Thursday. So we were scheduled to publish  our end year 2025 results on Thursday >> press  
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  release and then the webcast. It was scheduled  for Thursday that the first time will be cancelled  
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  cuz I did it from the hotel in Barcelona. I've  landed went to the hotel and we made the webcast.  
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  So that would be probably the first thing that we  would have delayed and it's never a good thing or  
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  never a good sign to delay webcast of your results  especially if they are good. >> Yeah. >> Uh so  
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  that would probably the first disruption that  would have happened. I would say probably the next  
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  disruption would have happened into minor daytoday  things and mainly around approvals. So people are  
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  hesitant sometimes to improve budgets. It has to  do with money. I think the day-to-day, you know,  
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  the manufacturing, production of pallets, shipping  customers, that would be 100% right. I think what  
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  would be delayed is capex approvals, you know,  those kinds of things. Uh >> uh contract signing,  
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  which can hurt, by the way, the company because  if you don't sign them on time, you lose sales.  
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  We have one situation like this. And I'm just  thinking that in this case it was a delay due to  
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  travel. Um but we all get sick. Um there are other  problems that can come up. >> Do you believe that  
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  you've you probably haven't had time to really uh  digest all of this and think, but do you think you  
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  might put some time into thinking about what do  I do the next time something like this happens?  
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  Should we have some sort of a contingency  plan to uh help people know that hey make  
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  those decisions if I'm not here and also how long  do they wait before they make those decisions?  
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  You know, it's uh obviously it went through my  mind and the first thing that came to my mind,  
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  you know, that designated survivor thing.  >> That's the first one that hit me and  
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  even there is a I think a Netflix or something  like that about >> Yeah, >> secretary, you need  
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  to put the phone down. >> Mike, what the hell is  going on? >> I said put the phone down. >> Mike,  
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  please just tell us what you know. >> Capital's  been attacked. Congress, cabinet, eagle is gone.  
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  And it repeatedly came to my mind because  when I boarded the plane to Barcelona,  
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  the first thing is just to what if it would  be shut down >> can happen you know uh fire  
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  whatever you need >> if there was friendly fire  from Kuwait right so >> exactly and that that was  
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  like probably the third time in those four days  that I thought about you need to have a designated  
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  someone that if communication is out, whatever  happens, have the authority and the wording to say  
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  yes, no, sign documents, whatever. And not only  professionally, I was also thinking privately who  
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  decides of what happens to your children, X, Y,  you know, things like that. And a lot of things  
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  we as private people we delay you know that has  to do with our end of life I would call it because  
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  it's kind of to be very honest those things  come to your mind when you're in a situation  
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  like this. >> Well and they should because there's  a very important statistic that I think a lot of  
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  people don't know about and that is that 25% of  all people die before the age of 65. >> Thank you  
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  Michael. So, so, so maybe well, sorry to bring up  such a morbid statement, but it is an important  
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  thing to talk about and people should be planning.  >> Exactly. And this is also it has nothing to do  
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  with business. It's really personal stuff that you  understand that you need to spend time actually to  
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  take care of those things. So, the people that  are part of your family would need to deal with  
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  it after whatever situation you are in. And uh I  would say that's that's a private thinking. I and  
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  I I'll take care of it in a better way uh in the  next couple. >> So do you think you think this  
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  shuffled some papers for you in your mind and now  you're thinking I'm going to take care of a few  
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  things that I have been putting off because I want  to I want to shape that better. >> Absolutely.  
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  100%. even more than that and it has to do with um  I think three main things. One is obviously your  
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  children and your family, your parents are still  alive and obviously work related especially when  
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  the company is uh listed you would like to have  that settled and you would like to have the right  
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  uh procedures in place. Hm. Sounds like you have  some homework to do. >> Oh, yeah. Regarding I do.  
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  I do have some homework to do. And let's be honest  also when you um as we said as we talked about  
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  before and that may be uh very much related. You  still understand that the people who work for you  
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  and your close management team. We are 80% there  but we still have 8 20 to go to make sure that  
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  uh people feel independent enough and empowered  to make the right decisions and empowered  
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  upfront. >> Yeah. >> Which is both on them and on  me because in those situation you understand that  
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  you probably do not empower them enough in your  day-to-day life if they still depend on certain  
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  questions. >> Absolutely. You know, I'm just  thinking there is a little bit of an analogy here  
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  with overcoming an illness. You become more aware  of certain parts of your life that you should be  
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  thinking of. And how do we spark that without  major events like that? >> Another question.  
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  I'm not sure I'm the person to answer this as I'm  as you know and you know me also a bit. It's a bit  
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  hectic the way uh you run your life between  family and work. You don't stop to think and  
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  those moments happen while you're stuck in Dubai  and you know uh and even you know the maybe we  
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  need to have some more time or me time I would  call it to think about those things. Alexander  
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  calls it me time. In my previous podcast, I  mentioned what one of my clients called it,  
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  looking out the window. Different language, same  instinct. There is clearly a deep yearning for  
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  this kind of reflective space. And yet, there is  also an enormous resistance to making room for it.  
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  My take is that most executives and probably most  people are reluctant to invest in me time because  
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  the ROI is not immediately visible. You cannot  put it neatly into a quarterly dashboard. You  
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  cannot always prove in advance what one quiet hour  will produce. And yet somewhere below the surface,  
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  we know the benefits are enormous. better  judgment, better emotional regulation, better  
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  pattern recognition, better decisions. The irony  is that people who claim they do not have the time  
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  to reflect are often the ones whose decisions  are most expensive when they get them wrong  
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  because while I was there for example, you know,  you there's a time difference. So you wake up,  
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  everyone asleep in Europe, but you still wake  up at 6, right? So you start your day when you  
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  do things and then you are in meetings the whole  day. There is still Wi-Fi all words thanks God.  
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  You end up late and you understand that you need  to breathe some air. >> So you go for that walk  
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  for an hour or a run or whatever it is. Uh but  you have different things to think about when  
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  you're in situation rather than you do it in your  day-to-day life. Cuz if you go running now outside  
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  all I'm thinking is writing emails. Mhm. >> And  all I'm thinking is what's the next project we're  
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  going to win? But this time you go for a walk  and all you think about is how do you spend more  
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  quality time with your family? How do you cherish?  One thing that highlighted me the most is how do  
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  you spend more time with your parents? >> Where  are your parents? My parents are in Israel which  
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  is doubled down. You know another situation. When  Alexander mentions that his parents are in Israel,  
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  he says which is double down. What he means is  that a situation already difficult by any standard  
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  becomes doubly troubling because his parents  are so close to the epicenter of the conflict.  
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  I felt sincere empathy for Alexander from the  beginning of the interview as a father and leader  
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  caught in an intensely uncertain moment. But at  this point in the conversation, I begin to sense  
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  that I was only just starting to understand the  real depth of the situation. >> That was one of  
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  the things that I was constantly in my mind. >> I  don't see my parents much. twice a year, let's say  
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  once a year, and none of none of them is getting  out, right? Am I doing the right thing by >> not  
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  investing more time or not spending more time with  my folks? Because there might be a situation you  
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  cannot fly in and just see them because today it's  usually very easy. You know, I book up a flight,  
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  they go to Israel for a few days, my mom comes  over, my father comes. It's it's easy. >> Yeah.  
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  And this is very personal. But to me um if I need  to think about something about myself is how do I  
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  spend more time with my parents? >> Yeah. >> Well,  these are these are very valuebased questions that  
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  we have for ourselves. And the question is, do  we stop the chaos in life and listen to our inner  
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  thoughts about what is really important to me? Am  I true to that or am I true to the game? >> Yeah,  
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  I think it's a balance and the balance needs to be  right. Are we always balanced? The answer to me,  
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  I know it's not. It's not always balanced,  but we should always try and balance it. And  
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  uh those situations in your life like injuries,  you know, like you said before, they kind of  
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  make you just hold on for a second and say, "Okay,  maybe I stretch too much my body. >> Maybe those  
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  hours that you miss sleep or your sleep def." >>  Yeah. And I think you know stopping and thinking  
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  about those things are very important and at  the same time executing on them is the ne next  
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  step right because it's one thing to stop and  say you know I should be doing this instead of  
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  that and then you kind of go on with life without  having made any changes. >> Yeah I would say it's  
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  not even executing it's because the immediate  execution is going to be there. So shortterm  
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  you're going to execute. Follow up on that. >>  That's the challenge. >> Execution is not a thing  
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  unto itself. Execution without leadership is like  a ship with a powerful engine but no rudder. It  
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  can move fast, consume enormous energy, and look  impressive from a distance. But without direction  
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  and correction, speed alone becomes a liability.  >> Because what's going to happen next? Okay,  
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  you set up something, something came up from work,  an important meeting, important customer. What do  
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  you sacrifice first? You sacrifice person  100%. Because it's an important meeting,  
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  you need to fly to the US. That's a customer that  goes first. And this is where the follow-up needs  
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  to happen. And I don't have a good answer for  that. I'll be honest. I'm not sure. I figured  
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  it out myself. >> Perhaps not. At the same time,  it is something to ponder. It is it is the life  
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  challenge that many executives have. Is it the  birthday party or is it the that meeting? Is it  
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  the anniversary or is it the meeting? Is it that  vacation or is it taking care of an emergency? Uh  
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  you know these are tough questions and there is no  there is not necessarily a right answer but there  
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  is an answer that makes sense from uh perspective  and it is from the place of perspective that we  
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  learn whether or not we made the right choice. And  so without challenging ourselves on those points  
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  we tend to glide through life. Oh yes. It's easier  not to challenge yourself. >> Mhm. >> I think we  
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  pay for it no matter what, right? >> We go to the  meeting, we pay for it. >> 100%. You pay for it.  
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  You know, we all paid. I paid for it, you know.  Um I can say I'm a happily divorced person, but  
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  uh but you pay. >> Alexander makes an interesting  distinction here. He is not yet sure whether the  
• 28:29
  real shift is to delegate more or to trust more.  The difference matters. Delegation is something  
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  we are taught to do as managers. Trust is  something we learn to practice as leaders. It is  
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  exponentially more powerful and precisely for that  reason. It also carries greater risk. Sometimes  
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  urgency trumps importance and we're not aware of  that. It's a really tough challenge and you know  
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  really tough for everybody to gather themselves  when something is urgent and say hey this is  
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  urgent. This needs to happen right now but it is  eclipsing something that's really important for  
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  me. What do I do? Is it on is it on a par with  the other thing or is it clearly important and  
• 29:22
  urgent? So we go back to that quadrant idea,  right? >> I tend to say it a lot at my workplace  
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  importantly is urgent. Um because that really is  a very good question also at work. Is it important  
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  or urgent? Do we need to talk about it now or  we need to talk about it next week? Things are  
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  really urgent. They just block your calendar.  You know, it just happened >> and it takes away  
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  the decision making. The decision is made for  us. Whereas uh when something is important,  
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  you have to push away urgent matters in order to  take care of those things because we always have  
• 29:59
  urgent matters >> every day. And so how do we make  room for the important things if everything is  
• 30:07
  urgent? That's I think that's maybe the toughest  thing for you as a leader. Do you do you agree?  
• 30:15
  Oh, 100% because if even if you plan let's say  they board stuff over the next let's say your  
• 30:23
  calendar 3 weeks ahead >> it's not blocked full  because you understand that things are going to  
• 30:28
  happen but when you look at it on Sunday evening  it's it's complete how can it be how because  
• 30:37
  things become urgent >> and what we need all to  how to empower people to do more because then the  
• 30:51
  agency split around you know your management stuff  so and delegation is a very complicated thing  
• 31:00
  uh for people and I admit for people like me who  are free controls >> Mhm. It's a difficult thing  
• 31:07
  because you you always want to be in the control  of everything happens. This is why the situation  
• 31:13
  in Abu Dhabi it kind of lifted the control out  of you know it's boom you are suddenly not in  
• 31:19
  control. You're cancel the flight is tomorrow  cancel or cancel who knows are we going to have  
• 31:24
  Wi-Fi tomorrow or we not and you're right this  is the most important thing it is how you deal  
• 31:30
  with it. Do you think in some way that experience  will help you delegate more? >> Yes, I think so.  
• 31:38
  I don't know if it will delegate rather than  trust because today you trust people but you  
• 31:46
  because you want to be in control of things. You  check follow up. You want to make sure things are  
• 31:52
  getting done according to what you believe it  needs to be. And sometimes we fall into a trap.  
• 31:59
  We included that we not only control the result  which we should because if the result is great  
• 32:05
  you don't need to control the process it's fine  I try to follow al always that if the result is  
• 32:11
  not good enough then you can then you go and  check the process but we all fell in at least  
• 32:17
  myself I fall into traps going and looking at the  process even if I don't know if the result is good  
• 32:23
  or not >> you just need to give away more if you  trust trusted people. >> Ever wish you could just  
• 32:32
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• 32:41
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• 32:50
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• 32:56
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• 33:05
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• 33:20
  just a sign. >> So, so trust includes  forgiveness because if you put your  
• 33:28
  trust in somebody and they make an error,  there is a certain amount of empathy and  
• 33:35
  um forgiveness involved in doing that.  So, it's it's not one muscle. It's not  
• 33:40
  just trusting people but also the followup to  trust is very important. >> Yes. You don't you  
• 33:49
  obviously need to give the space for error.  >> Is that the difficult part? >> No. Uh for  
• 33:57
  me not you can as long as you admit it I'm good  with it. >> Yeah. >> I don't like people hiding  
• 34:03
  mistakes. But if you come and say look I've made  that decision wrong one. I'm sorry. That's fine.  
• 34:10
  Looking back at our conversation, the issue is  more of a conundrum than our treatment of trust  
• 34:17
  fully captures. The risk is not only that trust  may be misplaced, but that it often takes time to  
• 34:23
  realize it has been. It can take even longer to  overcome the vulnerability involved in admitting  
• 34:30
  disappointment, misjudgment, or failure. And that  delay matters. The time needed to recognize and  
• 34:38
  admit a mistake does not always align with  the time available to correct it. Alexander,  
• 34:44
  like every leader, will inevitably face situations  where the timing works against the person who  
• 34:50
  failed. The mistake may be admitted, but not soon  enough. So when Alexander says, "As long as you  
• 34:57
  admit it, I'm good with it." The real leadership  question is, how much patience can that principle  
• 35:04
  bear? Trust only works to the degree that the  leader understands the mechanics of admitting  
• 35:09
  failure and has the extra margin to allow that  process to unfold instead of putting someone on  
• 35:16
  the stand. >> I have less patience for waiting  for that answer. So patience is not my strong  
• 35:24
  side. >> Mhm. >> And actually not deciding and  waiting is worse than you having a decision and  
• 35:32
  getting the wrong. You think that's an advantage?  I think >> you need to ask my people. But uh No,  
• 35:39
  you need but I'm not so sure I would say it's an  advantage. I think he I would like to have more  
• 35:47
  patience from some from time to time. I think  it's I wouldn't say it's an advantage to be  
• 35:52
  constantly impatient. Um sometimes you need to be  more patient. Is it wanting to have more patience  
• 36:00
  or wanting to have better behavior when you're  feeling impatient? >> Yeah, you you lie that I'm  
• 36:09
  my behavior changes when I'm impatient. Uh well,  I think I'm much better than I used to be 15  
• 36:19
  years ago. I'm much I'm not uh you know, I'm not  getting nuts. Maybe I'm getting a little bit more  
• 36:28
  demanding, but I wouldn't say it's it's on a level  that someone will get offended or hurt. I never  
• 36:35
  that I never talk disrespected to people. But yes,  obviously you can you can understand from my voice  
• 36:43
  that I'm expecting you to get done sooner >> that  I can Yeah. Can I improve my communication skills?  
• 36:51
  I would say not even behavior. I would I would  even file it down. Can I improve my communication  
• 36:56
  skills while I'm impatient? Yes, I can. I should.  Not that I can. I should. >> How about I will.  
• 37:05
  It's so important that people understand what your  expectations are. And I think it sounds to me like  
• 37:13
  you are pretty good at letting people know what  those expectations are. I think you've just hit  
• 37:21
  a point that I probably need to improve the most  at myself >> and that has to do not and that comes  
• 37:29
  back to communication. I do find myself probably  not communing well communicating well enough what  
• 37:36
  my expectations are because they are here. Now,  for all of you in podcast land where you can't see  
• 37:45
  us speaking, when Alexander says, "Because they  are here," he points to his head. And isn't that  
• 37:53
  true for many of us who hold high expectations of  our teams and even our family members? We assume  
• 37:58
  our expectations are clear because they're clear  to us. Yet, when we examine what we have actually  
• 38:04
  communicated, it is often far removed from what is  happening in our minds. The heruristic is simple.  
• 38:11
  If we agreed on expectations and you failed to  follow through, well, shame on you. But if I have  
• 38:18
  not communicated those expectations clearly, shame  on me. My guess is that expectations often remain  
• 38:25
  unspoken, not because they are unimportant, but  because communicating them properly takes work.  
• 38:32
  It takes time to scope a project. It takes time to  explain what success looks like. It takes time to  
• 38:38
  define priorities, constraints, standards, and  ownership. And too often we would rather move  
• 38:45
  on to the next thing then slow down long enough  to make the invisible visible, >> but you need  
• 38:55
  to translate them. And the thing is you need to  translate them different to different profile  
• 39:01
  of people because everyone listens differently.  This is such an important point that you're making  
• 39:09
  right now. It takes time. It takes energy. >> Yes.  >> It takes real thought to do that. But mastering  
• 39:16
  that is pretty amazing. >> Exactly. And that's  what I'm constantly working on because you need to  
• 39:22
  know the people you're talking to, how you deliver  them, the expectations so they will understand  
• 39:28
  what you really want. Some people it can be a good  email, long email that takes you an hour to write.  
• 39:34
  Some people it's a two-minute conversation. It's  it's really depends on what kind of a profile is  
• 39:42
  the person in front of you. And I don't think  there is a masculine to it. I think it's a  
• 39:47
  continuous learning because the other side of  the of that chess board are people and everyone  
• 39:53
  are moving differently or treatment differently.  >> So can I get better in that? Yes. The answer  
• 40:00
  is always yes. How will AI solve that problem?  >> Come on, we're talking AI. I probably think  
• 40:11
  uh you know the only the only way I see AI helping  in it is AI if you don't train it treats everyone  
• 40:21
  the same. >> Yeah. But if you take AI and you  start prompting and saying I want to deliver a  
• 40:27
  message to Michael who is to my opinion >> blah  blah and then you set up how you profile that  
• 40:36
  person to AI and you say what is the best way to  deliver dismissal okay just let's go >> to the  
• 40:46
  person like this or and then you but you actually  sit down and invest time in that prompt you might  
• 40:54
  get an answer which is better than one fits all.  >> So it's it's so interesting isn't it that's  
• 41:03
  basically the direction that the technological  world is going in everything where we're trying  
• 41:10
  to please um the individual so that everything  becomes normalized to that person. Think about  
• 41:18
  a feed for instance in Instagram or Facebook or  whatever social media, you know, you're bombarded  
• 41:24
  with this the news that you want to see. You're  bombarded with the advertisements that you want  
• 41:30
  to see according to your algorithm. And now we're  talking about sending messages that are tailored  
• 41:36
  to that person. I'm just wondering what the back  end of that is. One of my employees said to me,  
• 41:44
  "We become snowflakes." Do you know that term  snowflakes? >> So, anything that is not tailored  
• 41:50
  to our needs, we react to. >> It's interesting,  isn't it? >> It is very interesting. And um I have  
• 41:57
  to say at least on the social media, it is very  annoying that you for me it's very annoying. Uh  
• 42:06
  this is why I also for example close the Instagram  account because what's in there that I don't do?  
• 42:14
  Yeah, >> I'm not a heavy social media user. Don't  use anything. But even when I had Instagram,  
• 42:20
  it still saves you 15 minutes a day at least.  >> Listen, when I realized that I was spending  
• 42:28
  5 minutes a day in Facebook many years ago, I  calculated how much time that was a year >> uh  
• 42:35
  per no per month. I think I think it was like  an hour and a half. I think an hour and a half  
• 42:40
  per month alone on and that's nothing compared  to what people are spending right spending nine  
• 42:47
  hours a day mo most children uh are spending  that much time on social media. So it is look  
• 42:55
  even news you know I read the New York Times um I  read El Pais here and I try not to spend too much  
• 43:05
  time I read the headlines I know what's going on  know the price of gold uh and I try to stay away  
• 43:12
  from all of that stuff uh cuz I got work to do I  have other priorities five minutes of this is five  
• 43:18
  minutes less spending time with my wife um that  kind of You're asking all the right questions.  
• 43:25
  I'm not sure if you know uh we all have kids.  My kids have time limit which are they're not  
• 43:31
  happy with talking. Uh he is never happy with the  time limit. >> It's unfair. >> It's unfair. >> But  
• 43:41
  you know I'm always trying at least with  kids. you know, when I paused Instagram,  
• 43:46
  I actually showed it to him and I said, "Look,  I'm doing the same because I don't think this is  
• 43:52
  this is the right thing to do." Um, will it help?  No, but I'm trying. But into your >> Sounds like  
• 44:00
  you're protecting your kids. You're I mean, you're  being a parent, right? >> Yeah. I'm trying to be  
• 44:07
  a good parent. And uh I always say we'll only  know it in 20 years and you know when they are  
• 44:13
  30 we'll know how good it was. The children are  living in completely different world and it's uh  
• 44:20
  we can talk life more. >> Another subject. >> It's  it's a complete >> this sounds like a great time  
• 44:27
  to thank you Alexander for a wonderful talk. Um,  I really enjoyed the subject matter that we got  
• 44:35
  into >> and I really appreciate your frankness and  openness in our discussion today. >> Always >> and  
• 44:41
  I hope I hope I get a chance to speak with you  soon. >> Thank you, Mark, for anytime. >> I  
• 44:48
  want to thank Alexander Masharov for bringing  such honesty to this conversation. You gave us  
• 44:54
  a powerful reminder that leadership is not only  about delegation or execution, but about trust,  
• 45:00
  clarity, vulnerability, and the patience required  when people are learning to own both success and  
• 45:08
  failure. Thanks to my guest and to all of our  loyal listeners. Subscribe today so you don't  
• 45:16
  miss upcoming conversations. And if you found  this podcast valuable, please leave a review.  
• 45:23
  It helps others discover the show and keeps the  dialogue growing. For more information about  
• 45:28
  ScaleYOU and ScaleYOU retreats, go to scaleyou.org  where you can find the full library of podcasts,  
• 45:36
  blogs, and additional resources. Thanks for  listening. See you next time.