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Rich Howe | The Christian Reeve Podcast #346 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reed
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  Podcast. Today's guest is a filmmaker, A
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  musician and a writer. His name is Rich How Welcome to
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  the show. How you doing?
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  Good. Thanks.
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  Good, good. Glad.
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  Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
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  Yeah, thanks for coming. I was, I was pretty stoked that
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  you were interested in being on the show.
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  There's a there's a lot of there's a lot to cover, but
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  let's start at the beginning. Let's just jump straight into
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  the So if your interest in film and directing, where does that
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  begin for you? When many years ago I was on a
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  cricket tour, I was playing cricket in in in Jersey.
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  We're going to play against Jersey in my local team ended up
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  playing against Jersey. I was living in Bristol in like
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  North Somerset. And then in there, there was a
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  JFK was, was like, not everyone had Sky Movies then.
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  And the bed and breakfast were all staying in at Sky Movies.
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  I was about 13 or 14 and JFK started, which if you know JFK,
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  it's a 3 hour long epic with many twists and turns and
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  conspiracy theories. And it's probably the best
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  edited film in the 1990s. And I sat there watched the
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  whole thing whilst other people were trying to going off to
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  shops and coming back going or I just they, they wouldn't serve
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  me cigarettes or they wouldn't serve me alcohol.
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  And I was like, you know, or they did or they didn't.
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  And but I watched the whole film and I did get involved in maybe
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  a little bit of that stuff. But, but what I'm trying to say
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  is afterwards I, I thought it was, why did I just sit there
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  for the whole thing? I was watching about, you know,
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  something, an assassination or not that happened in 1960s.
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  And then I rewatched and I realised that editing was so
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  interesting in the storytelling. And from then I just became
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  really interested to know more about it.
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  And I watched the film and I did GCSE English presentations about
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  it. And I went to look at courses,
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  colleges in Bristol, and I saw how these girls were editing,
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  you know, on the media's production course, like the
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  equivalent to A levels. And I can see where they wanted
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  to edit this Maltese are being sucked up on the straw.
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  And they were blowing it in and out on the edit.
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  And I thought, well, that's where they need to do it.
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  And eventually they got to the point where they did it at the
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  same place as I'd thought. And I thought, and then the
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  teacher said, oh, that's really good.
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  And I thought, oh, well, that, you know, that's a good sign.
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  And then I chose to do AB tech in media, including a bit of
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  film making or video production, radio production, journalism
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  when I was 16, rather than do A levels.
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  And then I guess it just grew from the the interest.
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  You mentioned that that film was 3 hours.
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  We're seeing a lot more films that are around the three hour.
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  The big discussion on on that kind of subject at the moment
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  seems to be like, maybe that's far too long.
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  You know, if it's that long, make it a series like what's AU?
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  What's the kind of ideal length for a film?
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  Well, on one side of the coin, I saw a film last night that was
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  like he described the director described as a Type 90 before he
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  showed it. And then they did the Q&A and
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  weekly his new film, which he had in complex and did AQ and a
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  before and after, which is quite interesting because, you know,
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  we spoke to him before me and my friend.
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  I said, oh, my friend, he's a good actor.
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  We've joined him and the producer and they were saying,
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  oh, streaming, which I'll go to do the bit in a second.
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  They were saying just streaming. I said, are you going to put on
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  any streams? And they were, oh, there's no
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  point. You're just making money for the
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  streamers. But I think that sometimes when
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  it's three hour long film and I watch it on streaming, I
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  sometimes then end up pausing it and watching it as if I'm
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  watching a service because I'll come home from work and I'll
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  maybe watch 30 minutes to 50 minutes, but I haven't actually
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  got 3 hours then. So I I'll often watch those
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  films like I've been watching the Frankenstein one, which
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  maybe isn't 3 hours, but it's 22240.
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  So I'm halfway through, but it's taken me over a week to get to
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  like just over halfway. Also, I mean, I was anyway not I
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  was a little bit disappointed. Well, maybe if I had a grip me
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  more, I'd have watched it more. But I still think there's
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  something to to to that. You can watch films and you
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  know, like series, but a three hour film, on the other hand, I
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  sometimes say to it's just like watching 3 episodes of Breaking
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  Bad or 4 episodes Breaking Bad or something and you can binge
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  them. But I suppose it's the
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  expectation. Are you going to watch 4?
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  You might think I'm only going to watch 2 but then it so could
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  you end up watching 3 or 4? So is it just the expectation
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  that you've committed that 3 hours to sit down and watch it,
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  whereas you if you think I'll just watch 2 episodes then if it
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  turns into 4I. Mean, I suppose the key is, you
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  know, you mentioned like, oh, I can just pause it at any time.
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  I can watch it from home. You absolutely can.
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  But the problem is if you're in cinema and you're watching a
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  free hour movie and you know you need to go piss, then you're
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  going to miss the movie. Yeah, you can.
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  And like, yeah, you know, it's not the first time we've ever
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  held it in for a film. But like, as you said, like a
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  tight 90, that's possible. Holding a piss for three hours.
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  I don't know. I feel like that might ruin your
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  experience. And like, isn't that kind of the
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  whole point? The experience, you know, the.
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  The I still think that film in the cinema still has that magic.
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  It's like one of the few things over the years that hasn't
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  really changed. It's still just as magical as as
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  like when I was a kid. I mean, I'm just talking from
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  personal experience here, but it's interesting when you hear
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  certain directors talk about this as well and they're
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  encouraging people to go see it in cinema.
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  And they're kind of vision for it is you should go see it in
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  the cinema because that's what it's intended for.
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  It's got the full kind of visual spectacular, but also the the
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  the backup of all the sound system and everything.
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  You're just not going to get that even with a home cinema
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  system that's like really complex.
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  Or maybe you've got home cinema, I don't know.
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  But like it's just not the same as seeing it in the theatre.
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  But what say you? Well, even in the tight 90s
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  because I had a bed to go to the toilet.
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  But joking a bit if it joking aside.
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  But I did haven't got a whole cinema.
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  I've got like a sound bar, 55 screen inch TV, which is pretty
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  good. But yeah, I mean, you can't the
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  place that you know, of the cinema.
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  I mean, we've been to the cinema three times this week.
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  I mean, I used to go a lot. But so we've seen Hamnet, which
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  was really great to see in the cinema because of the sound and
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  the emotion and the and the acting, which is a real sort of
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  collective experience. And everyone has that
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  collectiveness of knowing also about you know, everyone put it
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  in there has know as a knowledge of some bit of Shakespeare.
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  I mean, I suppose we all do through English education.
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  But also then the other film we saw was Hand the hand the the
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  Housemaids with Sidney Sweeney and Amanda S.
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  So that was towards the end. It gets quite tense and in bits
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  and and being in a full cinema, like 90% full cinema on a Friday
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  night with people. And you can feel the intake of
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  breath at the same time as you when the chasers and all this
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  isn't a spoiler. There's a chase.
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  I mean, which there's that happens in a lot of thrillers.
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  That happens in a lot of that happens in a lot of thrillers
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  probably. So I mean, not in any way.
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  It would be completely unpredictable.
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  But I'll take it to piss. I don't know what I won't try to
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  say what the point is that collective, you know, grown and
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  there was also some real gross moments in it and everyone was
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  like, and you could, you know, as you maybe turned your eyes
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  away, you see it half your other Rd. turning away.
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  You know, that's also part of the collective.
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  And obviously, yeah, the sound and the visuals and seeing it on
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  the the big screen is fantastic. With that, Ben Wheatley did make
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  an interesting point because he filmed in Four by Three
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  yesterday to make it look more like a televisual focus, you
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  know, a bit like Doctor Who or something like that.
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  And he reckons that's much better for actors and actors
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  faces as opposed to widescreen. He was he was said that it
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  really makes the actors look better.
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  And certainly Sam Riley did look really great in it.
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  And, you know, and the other actors, actresses.
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  But yeah, I've always as a British, I saw was it Matt Damon
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  and said today I saw a thing on Netflix, how Netflix want you to
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  repeat the thing three times. What the plot is.
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  Any plot change they want you to repeat three times because they
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  think people will be on their phones.
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  So if these three hour films are longer in a sense because you're
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  repeating the what happened? I mean, classic Hollywood cinema
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  always had that rule. They repeated things two times
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  to make sure people didn't lose. What was the plot was that was
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  like that's script writing books.
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  That's now. Now it's three times.
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  When you say repeat, do you mean repeat the narrative within the
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  same story or do you mean like have the characters kind of
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  recap what's going on like? Well, yeah, yeah, sorry.
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  That's a better way to describe to to say what I'm trying to
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  say. Yeah.
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  The characters recap the story. Yeah, the characters recap the
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  story. But now.
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  But now Netflix won it three times because people are on
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  their phones so much. So is that lengthening the film
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  we just have in the story explained to us three times.
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  So that sudden, that extra half an hour, you know what I mean?
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  If you have 10 twists, yeah, I know you have to explain, but
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  no, no. But what I'm saying is but but
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  also reports if you need to go to the toilet it don't worry,
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  it's going to be recapped for you.
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  But this defeats the .3 hours is too fucking long.
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  Like it's it's well you mentioned that like you, you
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  would typically pause a film and I did it.
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  I did the same. Like the last one I remember
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  seeing was The Irishman and I love a Scorsese flick, but I was
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  just like, this is far too long. This should have been a series.
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  And like, I don't know that Scorsese's ever done a series
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  that would be interesting. But you know, if you look at
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  like Goodfellas or something like that, that's much better
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  runtime, you know? And it's, and it's a lot,
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  there's a lot that's covered in that.
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  But then maybe it's the fact that it's like a lot quicker
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  paced. Maybe, I don't know, it's like
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  fast storytelling in a sense, like, you know, blink and you'll
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  miss it at times, but The Irishman was a lot more.
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  It was a lot slower and paced and everything, which in of
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  itself isn't a bad thing, but I don't know, I just don't
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  understand this obsession with like really part of my language.
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  Fucking long Movies Now. Like I just I love cinema.
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  I love film, but I just sitting and what like even at home you
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  kind of get fatigued. Like you mentioned the the
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  Frankenstein, what is it? The one where the really, really
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  recent one with what's his name from Star Wars that played Poe
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  Dameron or whatever that character.
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  Oh, the yeah, yeah, the guy, the guy that was also like the Bob
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  Dylan in like do Ellen Davis meeting do Ellen Davis Jacob the
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  Coen for this film. Yeah, it's it's that one.
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  It's it's. It's if it's the one I'm
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  thinking of, it's it's, it was good.
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  I watched it and you're right, it's really long, but like we
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  had time so it was, it was fine, but.
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  I mean, I thought it was good. I mean, I, I counted, I looked
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  on my and like, was it nearly 8 minutes before you see the, this
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  monster, the Frankenstein and then it then there's quite a
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  long gap again before you next see the the Frankenstein?
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  Well, it was. It was not supposed to be so
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  much about him. Maybe it's supposed to be the
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  story of the creator, I suppose. Maybe.
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  It's kind of, it's kind of both. It's interesting, like the way
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  that I've never seen. Apparently it's closer to what
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  the book was. Again, I don't know my experts
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  that don't come at me, but I've never seen that telling.
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  Normally it's the perspective of Frankenstein monster which is
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  the common misconception. People always like make this
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  mistake. Frankenstein is the creator
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  Frankenstein. Yeah, Monster.
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  I mean, I mean, I've known the book for a long time.
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  I mean, I had the audio book Lady or Lady Bird book on
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  cassette that we used to listen to in the car with my parents
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  when I was like 7 or 8 years old.
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  Right through to. I've read the novel as well, you
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  know, later on in life and seen, you know, I mean, I think James
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  Wales films from the 30s of it and you know, the ones I've
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  never saw, the Robert De Niro 1, Kenneth Bernadette that mixed
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  reviews, but I've never seen that one.
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  Yeah, I mean, I think it's quite good.
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  I guess it's I think if everyone has their idea what the monster
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  should look like. And I thought he looked more
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  like a superhero than like, like the Marvelly than rather than,
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  you know, having bolts out of his neck and looking a bit green
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  and. Yeah, I know what you mean,
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  actually. Yeah, he was.
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  He was almost like, like cool, dark and handsome.
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  And I was like, well, hold on, he's a monster.
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  You know, initially he's kind of looks kind of scary, but then,
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  yeah, like, his hair grows out and he's like, almost dashing,
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  you know? And I'm like, he's fucking.
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  He's a monster. Like what?
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  He's, he's the whole point is he's made-up of lots of dead men
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  spliced together. Like he's supposed to look
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  absolutely fucking horrifying. What is this?
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  I mean, he looked more like like the lead singer, former
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  Scandinavian death metal band along there and, you know, and
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  the sort of, you know, sort of chiseled and and then when he
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  jumps onto the did he jump? I think he jumps on top of the
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  ship. And I was like, well, yeah, it's
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  like, you know, Marvel type of jumping.
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  I mean, you know, yeah, when he meet, I know he's struggling
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  when he moves. The ship, I know it's like, oh,
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  he's got super strength, but I'm like, you're right.
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  He's a Marvel hero. He's like Iron Man or Captain
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  America or some shit. Frankenstein.
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  I mean, I mean, it's, you know, open to interpretations, I
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  guess, you know, that's that's good.
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  But I was just a little, I was just, you know, a bit surprised
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  when that. Do you know what they left the
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  open for A sequel. So there you go, Marvel.
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  There's there's your sequel, Frankenstein to fucking fights,
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  fights The Avengers in space. I don't know, it's just.
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  Anyway, let's move. Frankenstein meets Dracula,
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  yeah. That see that would see that
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  something like that would actually be cool.
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  I don't know how you would go about that, but.
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  I mean, there must have been about the same type of time.
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  I mean, I'm not exactly sure when Shelley voted, but I mean
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  it must be about the same within 20 or 50 years.
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  The. Closest thing I've seen is
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  probably Van Helsing, OH. Yeah, yeah, I was the original
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  source Turfles, but yeah, yeah, I mean, so they could be set in
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  the same type of area and costumes.
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  I was sort of thinking. I just meant more like
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  crossover, like having lots of different, you know, kind of
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  like you're, you took a marvelous kind of a good way of
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  putting it, like just like, oh, it's Dracula.
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  Oh no, but Frankenstein's popped out of nowhere.
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  What the fuck? It's like, who else made that to
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  the party? I mean, I suppose they're both
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  on boats. They both did they end up, I
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  mean Romania, is it Austria they Frankenstein goes well, the EO
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  goes towards Iceland I suppose eventually or the ICE wait, I
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  mean maybe. I think it's supposed to be, I
• 15:26
  don't know, but the that whole part of the story was strange.
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  I didn't. Really.
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  But but but, but I do think that the yeah, that you said the
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  Irishman, that there is a guy, the guy who was like split that
• 15:36
  exactly where you need to split it to turn that into 4 episodes,
• 15:39
  like 4 episodes of Breaking Bad or whatever.
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  And there is a point where if you pause it then it ends on a
• 15:45
  perfect cliffhanger and then moves on.
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  I I've shared. There's an idea.
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  I shared it once on Facebook, so I, I looked and find it and send
• 15:54
  it to you. I mean, you might find it
• 15:55
  interesting. You might find it interesting.
• 15:56
  But you know, he did it also with the James Bond, the Daniel
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  Craig. He's watched all the Daniel
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  Craig conclusion like Quantum of Solace, which people got.
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  What was the point of that? What was the point?
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  But if he's done it, he's like, if you pause it here, then you
• 16:07
  pause it here, then you pause it here, it turns it into like 10
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  episodes of like the Daniel Craig here.
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  And you're like, and I've done it once.
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  And then it sort of like makes sense.
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  It's like, oh, cliffhanger. Oh, and then Quantum of Solace
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  just feels like a couple of like, you know, just filling you
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  a bit of information before then the next one, which was actually
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  a better film, but you know, because that's just a bit of
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  filler to sort of pad out the, you know, the overarching Daniel
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  Craig narrative arc. I can't with the lad's name is
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  otherwise I'd give him credit if it was a couple of years ago.
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  No, I love the idea. I wish they would do that with
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  all films. Could you imagine that that that
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  would be like, how would you like to consume your movie as
• 16:45
  one whole narrative or episodic? And I think episodic is a better
• 16:49
  way of storytelling. Like if it's.
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  Long Yeah, I'm a fan of that. Do you mean if it's linear?
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  If it you know, obviously big. It depends on the story.
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  If the story is short but sweet, absolutely tight 90 fantastic or
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  I think 2 hours absolute maximum right?
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  But like, if you want to have that episodic feel of it or you
• 17:08
  want to tell a longer story, I think that's where you go with
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  it really. And I mean, we, I think, I think
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  really we have The Sopranos to thank for that because ever
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  since then, we've seen so many store stories played out like
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  that, you know, Breaking Bad obviously being a fantastic
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  example of that. It's just a good storytelling
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  method, and it gives time for things to breathe, particularly
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  if it's like a series where you're still trying to figure it
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  out. You know, like, that feels like
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  what Stranger Things was was this idea of like, maybe they
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  didn't know exactly what they had at the beginning.
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  They probably had like a rough idea of what the end would be.
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  But, you know, to me, it kind of felt like, here's this idea,
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  we'll get a season done. If it does well, we'll do more.
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  And then they're like, oh shit, it became the biggest thing.
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  Like on the. Yeah, we got.
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  We can extend this, yeah. But you could tell that it's so
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  many different series where they like didn't plan for it to last
• 18:05
  that long. And now they're like, that's
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  that's to me. That's what I'll never forgive
• 18:13
  them for this. But that's what Game of Thrones
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  was for me. I was invested.
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  I was so invested and they fucking ruined.
• 18:20
  They just ruined. Yeah, I mean, strange things.
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  I definitely thought they thought it was going to.
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  Like, they didn't necessarily. I don't think they knew if they
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  were going to go on further with it.
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  They were just happy to get the first season done.
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  And it might have been contained quite nicely within that.
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  But I haven't watched the the last The Fever.
• 18:37
  The. Last one of that, but I but I do
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  like what you said. I mean, so the films, I mean,
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  maybe from when we did like film studies at uni, like, you know,
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  I mean people like Fellini, you know, the Italian cinema or then
• 18:49
  in the 50s into the 60s, seventies, then, you know, I
• 18:52
  like all like his films like like Lestrada or the Dosh Vitae
• 19:00
  and and Knights of Cabria in particular.
• 19:03
  That's like a really good one. And that's quite a tight 95
• 19:05
  minute edit. That's a really lovely film.
• 19:08
  I think you won an Oscar for that.
• 19:10
  And but yeah, so and some Scandinavian cinema and things.
• 19:16
  But yeah, well, I think episode of films are good and shows they
• 19:22
  do sort of follow a quite I never I never watched Game of
• 19:25
  Thrones, though. I.
• 19:27
  Don't bother, don't, just don't, don't don't waste your time.
• 19:32
  The only reason I say that is that like really the first like
• 19:35
  6 seasons are worth watching and after that it just goes to the
• 19:38
  shits. So it's almost like there's no
• 19:40
  point getting invested in something where you know the
• 19:42
  ending's going to be bad. That's what I tell people
• 19:45
  anyway. Like you know, But there was
• 19:47
  some fun character development and fun stories in it.
• 19:49
  So Emilia Clarke, I saw her in Last Christmas, a Christmas
• 19:55
  film. I do.
• 19:55
  You saw that. That was that's quite good.
• 19:57
  Shitty homework Christmas films that they do for like $1,000,000
• 20:01
  and then it just like sits in the bin of obscurity.
• 20:05
  Like when was the last good Christmas film you saw that
• 20:09
  wasn't made 20 years ago? I mean that that exactly that
• 20:14
  that is kind of, I mean, it's kind of, you know, it's all OK,
• 20:19
  George Michael song and the endings quite warm and it's
• 20:23
  helping home, you know, people on the streets a bit in London.
• 20:27
  And I can't give away the big twist.
• 20:30
  It's obviously been made for certain markets like the British
• 20:34
  market, American market and the Chinese market, you know, So
• 20:37
  it's been made in committee of like, how can we, you know, get
• 20:41
  this Christmas film that'll appeal to the most territories
• 20:44
  as possible. But I'm trying to think what's
• 20:48
  the good ones in the last 10 years?
• 20:51
  I don't think it's in the last 10 years.
• 20:53
  There is none. There are none.
• 20:56
  My wife likes watching, you know, she likes the Holiday,
• 20:58
  which is once you get into it, it's actually a pretty good
• 21:02
  film. But I think that's made more
• 21:05
  than 10 years ago with it's got a Jude Law and Cameron Diaz and
• 21:14
  Kate Winslet and Jack Black and. The girls.
• 21:17
  Swap houses, the girls swap houses and then it develops and
• 21:20
  you have to get in that mind frame of like when you're at
• 21:23
  Christmas, they swap houses because they both had problems
• 21:26
  with their boyfriends. And then they meet the neighbors
• 21:31
  or the next of kins of the people who don't realize they've
• 21:33
  just in this house swap. It's a life from the cuts.
• 21:37
  What is it? The cuts was somewhere just on a
• 21:39
  trade outside of London or Surrey and then with, you know,
• 21:42
  Beverly Hills and then they get involved with things happening
• 21:46
  there. You have to eat quite a lot of
• 21:47
  chocolate, you know, and be like, it's Christmas, you know,
• 21:51
  it wouldn't be a film to watch in June or July, but it's quite,
• 21:56
  it is quite a charming ROM com. It's quite a charming ROM com.
• 21:59
  And then the old man is there's an old man in America.
• 22:03
  He's like, you know, probably the best character in it.
• 22:06
  And he is. And then, dude, it's a spoiler.
• 22:12
  Some of the children in it, you know, you know, there's outside
• 22:14
  characters that help keep it festive and, you know, warm
• 22:21
  fuzzy Pew around the screen. And you don't question things
• 22:27
  like why is she running away from that taxi, not carrying the
• 22:29
  suitcase that she was just taking back to Los Angeles?
• 22:33
  Why didn't she just tell him to turn the car around?
• 22:35
  Why she dropped running a mile through the snow rather than
• 22:38
  just say turn the car around because it's a wrong gun.
• 22:40
  So you have to run, you know, But it's it's a charm.
• 22:42
  It's a charming form. I recommend give that a watch
• 22:44
  next. Question.
• 22:45
  Sounds like you spotted some continuity errors there, Rich.
• 22:49
  Would that be right? Well, certainly the bit with the
• 22:53
  suitcase, certainly like, you know, she had a suitcase with a
• 22:56
  laptop and all stuff. He saw her packing and then she
• 22:58
  just left it in the taxi and then ran.
• 23:01
  Why didn't she just said turn the car around?
• 23:03
  But yeah, there's. How often do you notice stuff
• 23:06
  like that when you're watching films and series?
• 23:08
  Does it bug you? Is there things that just like
• 23:11
  like oh, that was out of focus or that's not quite right or, or
• 23:15
  why is he wearing a different T-shirt in that scene?
• 23:17
  Did you ever notice stuff like that on a regular basis?
• 23:20
  Yeah, the clothes, maybe the focus thing, I might think, is
• 23:25
  it a decision? They've obviously chosen to
• 23:28
  leave it in if it's low budget. It's just that, oh, maybe they
• 23:31
  didn't have enough takes or maybe they wanted something
• 23:33
  soft. I mean, but yeah, I didn't often
• 23:36
  notice. I do notice things like the
• 23:38
  yeah, the clothes or the pop, you know, pops or why has that
• 23:43
  pop not gone carried along with the story?
• 23:48
  Because then it's like, well, why?
• 23:49
  Why have they not got the umbrella anymore?
• 23:51
  If they had the umbrella, they could use that to do the blah de
• 23:54
  blah. And I'm trying to yeah, that
• 23:56
  type of thing. I think that's it.
• 23:58
  My thing with this is like, OK, as you quite rightly mentioned,
• 24:01
  if it's a small budget film, like you don't pick it apart.
• 24:04
  Do you mean like when, when I go to like short Film Festival
• 24:06
  things in like Manchester, for example, right.
• 24:08
  I'm not sitting there like pulling shit apart.
• 24:10
  Like I think the only stuff I really kind of look at sometimes
• 24:13
  is some of the acting I'm like, or if that narrative is
• 24:18
  ridiculous, you're like, OK, this is terrible.
• 24:20
  You know, and that's going to happen every now and again.
• 24:22
  But like you look at the background, like if it's
• 24:24
  students, you're like, OK, they're students, they're still
• 24:26
  learning, you know what I mean? But if it's like this person has
• 24:29
  been a film maker for 10 years and then they produce something
• 24:32
  and like there's just, you know, like amateur one O 1 shit that's
• 24:38
  in there that shouldn't be in there.
• 24:40
  Like you might judge it a little bit, but when it's like big
• 24:44
  budget production, $100 million, you know, situation and you see
• 24:48
  like a Starbucks coffee cup in the in the background of a
• 24:52
  medieval scene, It's like, is it someone's job to fucking?
• 24:56
  Yeah, I was going to say, where's someone's actual job?
• 24:58
  Yeah. And there's the person on set
• 25:00
  doing that. Yeah, it.
• 25:02
  Reminds me of I did a short film one time with a few mutual
• 25:08
  friends of ours, Giuseppe ABBA and Dan McGee and it wasn't
• 25:13
  their film like I think G was directing and doing
• 25:17
  cinematography. Anyway, I was just doing like a
• 25:20
  little short piece in that, nothing big.
• 25:23
  And we had a lady on set called Jodie, Jodie Massey I think her
• 25:29
  surname is Lovely Girl come in for her exact contribution.
• 25:34
  But I do remember that she was helping us a lot with continuity
• 25:39
  stuff and she pointed out stuff that like all of us just
• 25:42
  completely missed. And then it kind of, I remember
• 25:45
  thinking like, wow, like you, it is so important to have someone
• 25:50
  like that on set at all times. To just be like different
• 25:54
  T-shirt change that. No, they need to have this at
• 25:58
  all times. Like I look at that stuff as
• 26:00
  well. Like if I'm playing a character
• 26:03
  and I've got the scene in my head, I'm like, OK, they should
• 26:06
  have this. Is it?
• 26:07
  Like, for example, when we would and we'll, we'll get into fake
• 26:10
  news soon, but like we would shoot in your film recently.
• 26:13
  And I'm running through the scene in my head and, you know,
• 26:18
  like how it's going to play out. And I'm, I'm like, OK, so.
• 26:22
  And I think the big thing was him carrying this bag of money.
• 26:27
  I'm like, OK, logically, what's he going to be doing with Like
• 26:31
  he's still got money with him, so he's going to throw away a
• 26:34
  little bit. He's not going to throw away
• 26:35
  that because originally it was given the whole bag.
• 26:37
  And I'm like, why would you give away all this money you found if
• 26:40
  the whole point is in the scene, it says he walks away with this
• 26:44
  big bag of money, but he's just throwing it away to this guy.
• 26:47
  It's like what? So I was like trying to
• 26:49
  logically break it down and be like, it must be this.
• 26:53
  So it's like logically. And then like that's the sort of
• 26:55
  conversations you have. And that's what we had on set
• 26:58
  where it's like, is this what you want to do?
• 27:01
  Or it's like reminder, isn't it? It's like, OK, this is how I see
• 27:05
  it. Is this what you wanted?
• 27:08
  Or do we do it a bit differently or what?
• 27:11
  Say your own stuff like that, like when you're trying to kind
• 27:14
  of map out a scene maybe. Yeah.
• 27:18
  Well, yeah, I think it's important to go through the
• 27:21
  details of the scene and then within the, with the continuity
• 27:26
  of particularly, as you say, with like a bag.
• 27:30
  How you holding it? I mean, when we did small
• 27:32
  filming this Wednesday, I sent the actors all screenshots of
• 27:38
  what they were wearing in other episodes so they could, you
• 27:41
  know, get the same costumes together and remembered,
• 27:44
  reminded everyone very politely, including myself, to always pick
• 27:48
  a hand. And if you're going to drink
• 27:49
  with a cup, pick a hand and it's always that hand, you know,
• 27:53
  because not going between right and left, it's like if you're
• 27:56
  right-handed or left-handed, it doesn't matter, but just pick a
• 27:58
  hand and then that's your eating, drinking, doing
• 28:01
  everything with then then that especially if you haven't got,
• 28:04
  as you say, like a continuity person or an assistant director
• 28:07
  who's keeping an eye on things or I mean, run as I've seen do
• 28:12
  that. They've said, oh, can you just
• 28:13
  keep an eye on things in a long time ago.
• 28:15
  But yeah, that yeah, with the the.
• 28:19
  When I was when we were doing your film, we were doing one of
• 28:22
  the last scenes before we left that we did have drinks at the
• 28:27
  table. And I remember that question
• 28:28
  being asked like, would you like us to drink or should we not?
• 28:31
  Because I think we were all thinking continuity in every
• 28:34
  shot. If, if there's different levels
• 28:35
  of do you know what I mean? That's you cut away to one shot
• 28:38
  and come back to another. It's like what?
• 28:40
  There's more water in the cup now what?
• 28:43
  You know you're going to notice that anyway.
• 28:45
  Yeah, I haven't noticed any problem with that.
• 28:47
  I think that that that was was fine.
• 28:53
  I haven't noticed any problem with that in the.
• 28:55
  No, I know. I know.
• 28:56
  I mean, I mean. But yeah.
• 28:58
  We did discuss. We did.
• 28:59
  We did discuss it. We did discuss it.
• 29:01
  Yeah. So that was that was that was
• 29:04
  good. I think it was good to just, you
• 29:10
  know, have either the clear liquids or a dark liquid.
• 29:14
  Like you can use Guinness to be like a baby Guinness or a Dark
• 29:20
  Sambuca. You know, if you're doing shots
• 29:22
  rather than having something or using milk for like White
• 29:27
  Russians. I think those are probably like
• 29:29
  the three best ones to use rather than if you're doing like
• 29:33
  beer or ale, But then if it doesn't look quite dark enough
• 29:38
  or fizzy enough, or if it's lager or then some people try
• 29:43
  and like use other colours in order to make it and then try
• 29:46
  and get the levels right like that.
• 29:48
  Whereas those are drinks that people are constantly lifting.
• 29:50
  Whereas if it's just short, it can't just be on the table for a
• 29:53
  while. Or if it's a whitewash and
• 29:55
  people are not, well, some people are, you know, drinking
• 29:57
  it all constantly. They, they can just be on the
• 30:00
  table and it doesn't feel like, hey, why is nobody touching it,
• 30:04
  I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 30:06
  I hate scenes like that where it's supposed to be in a bar and
• 30:08
  the characters just never touch their drinks.
• 30:11
  I'm like, that's just not realistic.
• 30:12
  You take like little sips or something like, you know, like,
• 30:16
  I'm not. Obviously it depends.
• 30:19
  Sometimes, yeah, you do have those sort of conversations
• 30:20
  where you barely touch a drink. Fair enough.
• 30:22
  But I don't know. If it's two dudes in a bar and
• 30:25
  they're shooting the shit, chances are they're drinking
• 30:28
  fairly. Yeah.
• 30:30
  I agree. You know what I mean?
• 30:31
  They're going to, they're at least going to touch their
• 30:33
  glass, let's say every few minutes sometime like.
• 30:38
  I mean, that was the the continuity, just what you were
• 30:40
  saying the other day. This film we were watching the
• 30:42
  other day, I think it was Kevin James, which I don't know if you
• 30:44
  know the American actor like King of Queens, you know, he's
• 30:47
  quite like. A yes, Yeah, he was in Molecop,
• 30:49
  wasn't he, Paul? Blast.
• 30:50
  Yeah. Molecop.
• 30:51
  He he was in a restaurant and he left the restaurant.
• 30:54
  He left like a whole side of fries and half hamburger and I'm
• 30:57
  like, come on, you know, like, no, I mean, I've never I've
• 31:01
  never left a chip in 20 years. There's no way that guys leaving
• 31:05
  half his meal to leave. And it's just like, maybe there
• 31:07
  was continuity, like we don't have to bring in another type
• 31:10
  thing. But it's like, you know, as soon
• 31:12
  as I saw that, I was like, people don't leave like half
• 31:14
  them over half their meal on the table, you know, and then exit,
• 31:19
  you know, and it wasn't an emergency.
• 31:21
  He didn't get a call enough to move.
• 31:22
  He just said he was going. He, he hadn't fallen out with
• 31:24
  the other people or anything. It wasn't like he had a real
• 31:27
  thing to leave. He was just like, OK, I'm going
• 31:29
  to, you know, I'm ready. I'm going to go to work now.
• 31:31
  And he just like anyway. No, you're right.
• 31:35
  I I noticed that that's a big trope in American movies in
• 31:38
  night in the 90s and the 2000s. Like I saw one about a year or
• 31:43
  two ago, someone made a meme about it where it was like, you
• 31:46
  know, every time the character, like a kid leaves to go to
• 31:50
  school and you know, there's a massive breakfast spread of like
• 31:54
  muffins, pancakes, every cereal you can imagine, bananas,
• 31:59
  whatever. And then they just take like one
• 32:02
  banana and, and like a little sip of orange juice and leave.
• 32:06
  And it's like, like, yeah, sure, people have done that in a rush
• 32:10
  before, but you never have like this massive, huge spread, not
• 32:13
  industry or like I guess some rich family or something.
• 32:18
  But then you'd if you were, you'd probably sit down and make
• 32:22
  like a big like, I don't know, I mean, I think yeah, it's just
• 32:25
  like it's, it's, it's, you know what I mean?
• 32:27
  Like breakfast tends to be you sit down, you have breakfast,
• 32:31
  whatever. Like, you know, but I always
• 32:34
  found that a bit unrealistic in American movies.
• 32:38
  But but then I don't know, like portion sizes and stuff like
• 32:40
  that are pretty crazy over there too.
• 32:42
  So there is a an element of realism there.
• 32:45
  But you see it a lot in American movies.
• 32:47
  Maybe, maybe not so much now, but like back in the day, you'd
• 32:50
  see it all the time. And I was always just like,
• 32:52
  that's odd. Why would they do that?
• 32:54
  You know, or like you say, they just like they're having lunch
• 32:57
  and then they barely touch it. It's like, is he not hungry?
• 33:00
  Is that part of the narrative? Is he having, I don't know, like
• 33:04
  problems eating right now? Like, what's the problem?
• 33:07
  What's the story? Who knows?
• 33:09
  Yeah, he said. I think, I think Gadja duties
• 33:16
  it. It's again, that's sort of what
• 33:18
  we're talking about, the magic of being in the cinema.
• 33:21
  And then when it brings you out, you know, and then you like, oh,
• 33:24
  and then you look along the line and then there's all the glowing
• 33:26
  faces and you're like, oh, right, I'm going to go going to
• 33:29
  get back in. But then sometimes you just
• 33:30
  notice those things and it brings you out of that, you
• 33:33
  know, experience where you're, you know, you're connected to
• 33:36
  the, the, the screen, which I suppose that's what all film
• 33:42
  makers are wanting people to, you know, be locked in following
• 33:47
  the story. But it's, you know, it's part of
• 33:52
  the whole the dream of the cinema.
• 33:54
  You know, you're watching the TV, you're watching the screen
• 33:56
  and you, you, you as the viewer, you decide you want to get
• 33:59
  sucked in and you don't actually want these bits to bring you
• 34:02
  out, not unless it's for a good reason of a refraction.
• 34:06
  Just other than, you know, the pops and the budget departments
• 34:10
  had way too much money to buy things of serial.
• 34:15
  You know you'd you'd rather be hooked in of what's going to
• 34:17
  happen next. I do feel bad for like modern
• 34:22
  film makers in some sense because they're trying to
• 34:26
  obviously push younger generations to stay in the
• 34:28
  cinema and, you know, experience it like how we experienced it
• 34:32
  growing up. But the difference is we are
• 34:34
  just different generations and the younger generations coming
• 34:38
  through now have terrible attention spans.
• 34:41
  They really do. They, I mean, they can't often
• 34:43
  can't sit down and even watch like a video for longer than a
• 34:47
  few minutes, which is terrifying.
• 34:50
  I've noticed it sometimes with myself where like I'll find
• 34:53
  myself multitasking and not paying attention to something.
• 34:56
  I'm like, this is bad. So I have to just put things
• 34:58
  down, focus my attention. So like we're all guilty of it.
• 35:02
  It's just when you're a generation growing up with that,
• 35:05
  you don't see the problem with that.
• 35:07
  Whereas we would be like, oh, that's not good.
• 35:09
  Let's let's eliminate that. A younger generation might be
• 35:13
  like, what's the problem? Like it's normal.
• 35:18
  They say that it's rewiring the brain and and like, it's to do
• 35:21
  the pleasure centres and stuff. Like that's why when you're
• 35:24
  scrolling, say on TikTok or something like that, you know,
• 35:27
  you're looking for like a quick release.
• 35:30
  Like what's something to stimulate the brain?
• 35:32
  I want a bunch of sure, right. Dopamine.
• 35:36
  Yeah, I just want dopamine, dopamine, dopamine.
• 35:38
  But if you're watching a film, it's, it's a long process.
• 35:43
  It's it's long term gratification, I suppose.
• 35:48
  And you, you're not granted it straight away.
• 35:50
  And it's supposed to be twists and turns and you know the
• 35:55
  journey. I mean, I think there's always
• 35:57
  that thing I I mean, once thought or heard somebody
• 36:01
  talking a bit about and it made me think, you know, sometimes in
• 36:03
  the certain films they almost can, especially if maybe if it's
• 36:06
  like an artist one. Not to say you get bored of it
• 36:08
  because you want to see, but also that that boredom, it makes
• 36:11
  your mind. The boredom is very loosely I've
• 36:14
  said, but you know, then it makes you consider other things.
• 36:17
  So then, you know, you people say you have often your best
• 36:21
  ideas when you're bored. Where's it young people, because
• 36:23
  your imagination kicks in? Where's a lot of young people
• 36:25
  because or was as well, You know, we pick up a phone rather
• 36:29
  than when we didn't have access, when there wasn't a phone, our
• 36:33
  brain would do something, you know, much more, you know, like
• 36:36
  why don't you like something less boring instead?
• 36:38
  You know, it would make up a little poem or a story or oh,
• 36:42
  I'll do this doodle or, you know, it would make something in
• 36:44
  there. So when you're watching a film
• 36:45
  that's long, well, not long. It could even just be normal 90
• 36:49
  minutes. Then if you are watching
• 36:52
  something that somewhere has is about philosophy or social
• 36:55
  change or has something about something, you can then start
• 36:58
  going on your own little thought pattern about related to
• 37:01
  yourself, a society with the characters.
• 37:03
  And that's that's that's interesting.
• 37:05
  And but you have to kind of be a bit locked in or a bit
• 37:08
  meditating it whereas, which is what's good about the cinema
• 37:11
  because you, you know, you can't go on your forward or you can't
• 37:15
  pause it. So that is part of the, the
• 37:18
  journey. And if there was like a little
• 37:20
  lull, then you know, you might get a, an interesting or
• 37:24
  creative idea or reflect on it somewhere in or in some way as
• 37:30
  you're watching it. But but it is, I mean, in terms
• 37:34
  of watching a film, sometimes when I'm at home, in order to
• 37:37
  stop doing that, I might sit and I might do this.
• 37:41
  So I've got a bass guitar so I can, I don't need to even look
• 37:44
  at the notes. I know where they are.
• 37:45
  And just like, but this is stopping me moving.
• 37:48
  I'm not getting up. I'm not picking up a phone, but
• 37:51
  it's like a prop almost just sat here.
• 37:53
  And then if I decide to play along with the soundtrack, I
• 37:56
  might do or not, but it would, you know, it keeps you sort of
• 38:01
  locked and routed and off your phone.
• 38:04
  I don't do that all the time. By no means I don't want to give
• 38:07
  that impression, but I have done that before.
• 38:09
  Just as an as an interesting way to, I suppose that then to just
• 38:16
  contradict me saying, you know, you're only focused on that if
• 38:19
  you say that, but not too much. I think though, that with
• 38:26
  whether or not the fog, you know, I mean, it's a bit like
• 38:30
  they were saying about Matt Dame was saying, Oh, you're having to
• 38:32
  like retell the story all these times.
• 38:35
  I mean, it's it is interesting how that's being told because I
• 38:38
  mean, people used to criticize the twice going around in the
• 38:42
  same bit, but also they want action in the 1st 5 minutes.
• 38:45
  That's another Netflix requirement, he said, which is
• 38:49
  fine. There's lots of great movies.
• 38:51
  Start with a good set piece. Yeah, I mean, I agree that you
• 38:56
  want to kind of hook people into whatever the story is, but then
• 38:59
  that from the get go. But then sometimes things are a
• 39:01
  slow burn. Like I watched something
• 39:04
  recently I couldn't for the life of you tell you what the name of
• 39:10
  it was. Something like Detroit 99 or 79,
• 39:15
  something like that. 77 sort of like small budget film.
• 39:18
  It had the actress who played the original Wednesday in like
• 39:24
  the 90s film. Yeah, Christina Vici.
• 39:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
• 39:31
  She was like a brilliant, brilliant actress, yeah.
• 39:33
  She is she was the supporting actress in in in the film.
• 39:37
  And it was kind of like a couple dynamic situation, but like,
• 39:43
  like basically he just kidnaps this girl on the street and.
• 39:47
  Buffalo. 66 Buffalo. No 66, something like that.
• 39:53
  Yeah, it's got Vincent Gallo. Yeah, I saw this at the cinema
• 39:55
  when it came. Out incredible film.
• 39:58
  I saw it recently and. It's he spends the first scene,
• 40:02
  he hasn't to try and find a toilet, you know, that's the
• 40:04
  first. But he's walking for like 15
• 40:06
  minutes trying to, you know, Yeah.
• 40:08
  It's a slow burn, but it's it's worth it and it's got a a fun
• 40:12
  little twist. But I remember watching it with
• 40:15
  my girlfriend, we were just hooked.
• 40:16
  We were just like, especially at the end.
• 40:19
  I won't ruin it for for our listeners, but I was like.
• 40:21
  Oh my God. Oh my God.
• 40:23
  It's it's cool, man. It's and it's just bonkers.
• 40:26
  The whole thing is bonkers. But like you need that.
• 40:29
  I think you need, you need like stuff that's a bit out there.
• 40:32
  And I, I don't always agree with this whole, you know, like
• 40:35
  guidelines thing. Like there needs to be 5, you
• 40:38
  know, 5 minutes and then straight action.
• 40:41
  There needs to be, you know, 3 point arc.
• 40:44
  There has to be this, this and this.
• 40:45
  And it's like, don't have to do anything.
• 40:48
  Like, you have to have a story. But the way you tell the story,
• 40:53
  that's up to you. And, you know, it's like writing
• 40:56
  songs. It's like you don't have to do
• 40:57
  it the conventional way. There's lots of different ways
• 40:59
  to do something. But it's like, obviously, I
• 41:04
  don't know. My perception is that, you know,
• 41:07
  these days the big companies are less willing to take risks, even
• 41:11
  though there's so much money flying around.
• 41:13
  They're like, just terrified to take risks, and they only want
• 41:17
  to go with what has done well before.
• 41:19
  And it's like, yeah, but if you do what has done well before all
• 41:23
  the time, then all you're going to have is, like 50 million
• 41:25
  clones of the same thing. You know, in order to break out,
• 41:29
  you have to take risks. That's just a tenet of life, I
• 41:32
  think. Really.
• 41:33
  Yeah. You know, anyway.
• 41:37
  I mean, I think with that that we you say, because it with the
• 41:40
  the Ben Wheatley talked about that a bit yesterday and it's
• 41:42
  something that I've been thinking about with the the fake
• 41:44
  news question a lot recently is the with the storytelling.
• 41:50
  Like he was saying that it's ever since Star Wars.
• 41:52
  It has to be the hero's journey. But before that, films
• 41:55
  necessarily weren't like that. But Star Wars was such a success
• 41:57
  in was it 77 that then you know, through that's permeated Western
• 42:03
  film culture since the hero's journey.
• 42:06
  But that's just one of the journeys.
• 42:10
  Whereas then, well, I mean fake news.
• 42:15
  I wrote that in a interesting way.
• 42:20
  I'd never seen The Hunger Games. I did watch them all over
• 42:23
  Christmas, but several years ago I did start to, to write it with
• 42:29
  the novel November. I don't know if you come across
• 42:33
  November, where the idea is November's quite a, it's a big,
• 42:38
  it's a quite a big thing in the, it's a thing in the writing
• 42:41
  community where people be like, well, there's not much happens
• 42:44
  in November. So if you write 2000 words a day
• 42:48
  for all November, every day you've got, you've got the first
• 42:51
  draft of a novel and then you then you've got the rest of the
• 42:55
  next year to, to keep writing, but don't stop, don't make any
• 42:58
  corrections. You just write, you don't delete
• 43:01
  a word. If you make a spelling mistake,
• 43:02
  just write it and then go on. You know, then people would be
• 43:06
  meeting up in groups. It kind of was it out of
• 43:08
  lockdown or was it before lockdown?
• 43:10
  But it's kind of like people would meet up in coffee shops.
• 43:12
  It was quite an American thing as opposed to, but there was
• 43:14
  like people meeting up in Waterstones in Manchester or at
• 43:18
  home. I think you know and like
• 43:20
  meeting in groups and you know, just to support each other and
• 43:23
  write or type. So I typed it.
• 43:26
  I did a lot of it types into the next to my phone.
• 43:28
  I didn't manage to write 2000 words a day, but I got at least
• 43:31
  500 / 1000 each day and then it became an like a novel and I'd
• 43:36
  seen the hung. I don't know if I should be Yeah
• 43:39
  The Hunger Games they had like it's like character introduction
• 43:42
  inside an incident, you know, turning points that they cannot
• 43:46
  go back to their real lives, you know, you know another 4 centres
• 43:50
  things. The darkness just got darker,
• 43:53
  you know, or then you know, there was a hope or there's a
• 43:58
  twist. And so and then with the story
• 44:00
  that I knew wanted to tell. So I used all of these plot
• 44:04
  points that whoever wrote The Hunger Games or whoever analysed
• 44:08
  The Hunger Games, sorry, whoever wrote a dissertation on The
• 44:11
  Hunger Games wrote. And I thought, oh, well, that
• 44:12
  must be what people might like. And so then that's how I whoever
• 44:16
  got then the where are voters to be like a just a novel.
• 44:20
  And then once we got talking with people about things and
• 44:25
  talking with the actors and they were like, oh, let's make let's
• 44:27
  keep the story going that then I looked in.
• 44:31
  I looked into that to find more scenes from the longer
• 44:37
  unpublished. But one day I hoped I will plan
• 44:39
  to, you know, get into the point where it might be like a novella
• 44:43
  self publisher one day. Why not publicists out there
• 44:47
  that there are publicists here then, you know, You know, so
• 44:53
  that was how that came out. But I was just sort of saying
• 44:55
  that like, I think that it is because that's one of the other
• 45:01
  things that's quite annoying. Not to go off at a different
• 45:02
  tangent, but, you know, some of these sites where they, they
• 45:05
  take films and often independent films and they want them and
• 45:09
  they help grow these sites and they take in people's films.
• 45:14
  But then once they get to a certain point, they might be
• 45:17
  like gatekeepers, like, Oh, you didn't have that in your third
• 45:20
  act or but the first acts not the same.
• 45:23
  But then some people are making great.
• 45:25
  But it's like saying, Oh, well, you know a song, you know, a
• 45:29
  song by a new wave bands not as good as, you know, a progressive
• 45:33
  rock band because they didn't have a coder.
• 45:36
  You know, it's like sometimes you don't need always a coder in
• 45:38
  a song for it to be a great song.
• 45:42
  You know what I mean? All but some some of the
• 45:45
  greatest songs ever are that because they are such an amazing
• 45:47
  coder that then when the chorus kicks back in, that's fantastic,
• 45:51
  you know, like, I don't know, Paranoid Android or a Hendrix or
• 45:55
  something like that. But then if a punk's on just as
• 45:57
  like a drum fill instead of a coder, nobody minds.
• 46:01
  It's like, oh, we didn't need a coder it there's just a drum
• 46:03
  fill. You know, it's still a great
• 46:04
  song because it's a great song, but within films it sometimes
• 46:09
  makes me think, oh, well, someone's like, oh, well, you
• 46:11
  didn't have that in the first act, so then I'm not going to
• 46:14
  watch the second. Like somebody's like a curator
• 46:16
  of like long, you know, be like, well, you didn't in your first
• 46:19
  10 minutes have the incited instance or we don't know where
• 46:21
  the hero's journeys going to go now.
• 46:23
  So we better, you know, we we'll say that we that's not you know,
• 46:28
  that's not you know, you haven't filled that tick that box so
• 46:32
  well. So you say if they'd have done
• 46:33
  that in, you know, Buffalo 666, it's a long time since the
• 46:38
  senior. But you know, I'm sure if they'd
• 46:40
  have looked at that and gone, oh, you haven't got that tick in
• 46:43
  that place, then you know you wouldn't.
• 46:45
  You know it's a slow burn. Yeah, I mean, you can say that
• 46:47
  by some of the greatest films ever made.
• 46:50
  Like I I just what makes a good film is a good story, Simply
• 46:53
  put, you know? Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 46:56
  Like sometimes you see some of these like short film festivals
• 46:59
  or not even like festivals but like film events.
• 47:03
  Like a shout out to the film vault in Manchester I love.
• 47:07
  That, yeah. Whenever that comes up, I try to
• 47:10
  come down every once in a while and every now and again.
• 47:13
  Yeah, good guys. Yeah, Good guys, right.
• 47:15
  So people present like short films, which is fine.
• 47:19
  Some people take the piss with the length of that, you know,
• 47:22
  like what justifies a short film.
• 47:24
  But some people literally just come in and bring a feature
• 47:27
  fucking film. A feature film.
• 47:29
  It's just, it's a short film night.
• 47:32
  And and like, I remember one time Fallon told me about like
• 47:37
  there was a film event where they watched all these films and
• 47:42
  then right at the end was was a feature film where none of the
• 47:44
  people that made the film were there.
• 47:47
  So I don't know, I would have just been like this, just not
• 47:49
  watch it then. But they watched it all.
• 47:52
  Was that the Russian film? I don't know, but apparently it
• 47:54
  was the shits and everyone because like obviously it's like
• 47:59
  a networking event as well. It's.
• 48:00
  People, I mean the shit's good or the shit's bad.
• 48:02
  Shit, No, no, no, no. It's the shits.
• 48:04
  Not the shit. It's the shits.
• 48:07
  No, that's that drizzling shits. That's.
• 48:09
  What I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, OK.
• 48:11
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 48:11
  So like the the again, I wasn't there, but I got told this
• 48:15
  second hand information that apparently they watched the
• 48:18
  film, it was the shits. And then when the lights come
• 48:23
  on, you know, and everyone's like normally has a chat,
• 48:26
  everyone was just in silence and they just got up and left.
• 48:30
  Like it was that bad. It was just like, let's just go.
• 48:34
  Yeah. What if I was possibly, I was
• 48:36
  maybe at that one. I think it was like, I think it
• 48:38
  was very tough, tough subject matter as well.
• 48:43
  Oh, is it tough subject matter. Well, I mean, it's possible it
• 48:46
  was a different one because I've seen falling at two or three,
• 48:49
  but probably 3 actually events been there at the same time as a
• 48:54
  yeah, I think it was quite disturbing.
• 48:57
  Well, but it was also, but it was also told extreme.
• 49:02
  Oh, you know, it was very slow as well over long, not very well
• 49:07
  edited. Well, I mean, it could have been
• 49:10
  edited. I mean, I don't think there was
• 49:11
  any editing. It was like, there's one bit,
• 49:12
  here's the next bit, here's the next.
• 49:14
  The worst one I've ever seen and I don't care.
• 49:16
  I'm I'm just going to name drop it.
• 49:18
  Fuck it, do you will agree with me?
• 49:21
  I think I might have mentioned this on the episode I had with
• 49:24
  him. Maybe not.
• 49:25
  I think it might have been before then.
• 49:29
  There was a film that we saw, I use that word loosely as well,
• 49:34
  Film. So basically like I I dubbed it
• 49:38
  B Roll the movie because it was 10 minutes of various shots of
• 49:44
  this tall brooding sound engineer just staring off into
• 49:48
  the distance and not even showing him like doing the sound
• 49:53
  engineering really. Occasionally you might see him
• 49:55
  with a tablet like or talking to someone, but most of it was just
• 49:59
  him like looking off into the distance kind of staring,
• 50:02
  looking back, it's console looking forward again, 10
• 50:05
  minutes at that. And then it ends and it was
• 50:09
  cooled. Nothing happens.
• 50:12
  And I was like, thanks for the biggest waste of 10 minutes of
• 50:17
  my entire life. What the fuck was that?
• 50:19
  What was that? What was the narrative?
• 50:22
  Was the soundtrack you know, was that the no?
• 50:24
  No, it was no, no, no, no. It was lots of like the maybe
• 50:28
  the background of of, of like whatever events they were
• 50:32
  playing. That was it.
• 50:34
  That was literally it. Well, I'm, I don't know, maybe
• 50:38
  I'm glad I haven't seen it. I didn't know if it was going to
• 50:40
  be like, yeah. I was just sitting there with
• 50:42
  Gee, like fuck, is this shit? What is this?
• 50:45
  This is awful because I didn't get me wrong.
• 50:49
  I love something arty far E where you're trying to do
• 50:51
  something different. Right, like if you'd have done
• 50:53
  that and it was like, I don't know, 3 minutes maybe, but then
• 50:59
  I don't know, because then it's still the same premise.
• 51:02
  There's like, yeah, I know the point is nothing happens.
• 51:05
  But if if it's a comment on fly on the wall kind of vibes of old
• 51:12
  inside the mind of a sound engineer, I can tell you it's
• 51:16
  I'll give you a better idea of than sound engineering myself.
• 51:18
  Like that's it's not it. I don't know what it's trying to
• 51:23
  what the see. That's the thing.
• 51:25
  I think a film should always at least give you an inkling of
• 51:29
  what the point is supposed to be.
• 51:31
  You know? Even if it's like a mind fuck
• 51:33
  like Donnie Darker, you at least get like a an idea.
• 51:36
  Yeah, fantastic film, Yeah. Right.
• 51:37
  You watch it second, third, fourth time and now you get it
• 51:40
  more, right? But I watched like that and I
• 51:42
  was like, that was just a waste of time.
• 51:44
  Like what was the point? What was the message?
• 51:46
  What was the story? I mean, I'm trying to think with
• 51:50
  it because I, I, when we get submissions for keno, sometimes
• 51:54
  we have the things with on film Freeway where, you know, people
• 51:58
  can write, you know, your director's statements and you
• 52:00
  know, and sometimes people can mention that they want.
• 52:05
  Well, not often it has. Been.
• 52:07
  Mentioned it has been mentioned that they want to maybe make the
• 52:09
  audience a little bit bored, you know, as part of like, you know
• 52:13
  that's what they're trying to attempt in to show how.
• 52:18
  See, if you would do that though, guess what?
• 52:20
  I'm going to get up and go for another drink or I'm going to
• 52:23
  use your film as a toilet break. Like that's the reality of that.
• 52:27
  I mean, of course then there was has to be a little bit of
• 52:30
  context. I mean, trying to think, I mean,
• 52:32
  there was woman where there was a woman that was sort of was she
• 52:35
  locked or was she not locked in a room and she could or could
• 52:39
  not escape? And the only way she communicate
• 52:41
  was with a man on the telephone. And so was it deliberately like
• 52:45
  she's waiting for this telephone to ring for a long time.
• 52:47
  But then in the end, and then this guy was talking to her and
• 52:51
  he was telling her to stay in there and do things.
• 52:53
  And then at the end of the film, and you were like, is she
• 52:56
  kidnapped? Is she in a mental hospital?
• 52:59
  Is she imprisoned? Has he kidnapped her?
• 53:01
  Are they playing some sort of S&M game?
• 53:03
  That it's not completely clear. We're only reading the subtitles
• 53:07
  because it's Italian. I mean, it's quite well done.
• 53:08
  And the actress really gave a, you know, really gutsy
• 53:12
  performance. Stands starts with us on a head
• 53:14
  start doing a headstand. And then so.
• 53:16
  But then in the end, you find that the phone's not even
• 53:18
  plugged in. That's the last bit of the shot
• 53:20
  the phone wasn't connected in. So is it all just going in on
• 53:22
  her head? OK.
• 53:26
  And actually it was very interesting.
• 53:28
  I mean, it was very interesting, but but there was like a long
• 53:30
  bit in the middle where like she's just waiting for this
• 53:33
  phone to ring. So it is that like, you know,
• 53:37
  she's waiting for this call, you know, and so you're having to
• 53:40
  wait quite a long time with her to wait to see if she's going to
• 53:43
  get this call. But then maybe she never got the
• 53:45
  call anyway because, you know, the plug was plugged in.
• 53:50
  And then the only person you see is like a guy who brings a tray
• 53:52
  and puts it down and leaves. And you're like, is this a
• 53:54
  prison? Is this a mental hospital?
• 53:56
  We don't know, you know, or is the helicopter?
• 54:01
  But but they did, right. They intended for it to be a bit
• 54:04
  bored. I mean, in my own filmmaking
• 54:07
  terms, anytime I've directed something like that, it was
• 54:09
  like, I made a film called Show Around Lapland Mushroom.
• 54:14
  Don't know if I sent you the link or not.
• 54:16
  We go around you. You, you dubbed it as a
• 54:20
  documentary music video, which I don't think I've ever seen the
• 54:24
  two together. I didn't quite understand how
• 54:26
  you could pull that off. So it's a documentary music
• 54:29
  video. Explain.
• 54:31
  Explain yourself. Well, well, well, we kept my
• 54:36
  wife's from Lapland, Finland, so we go there like every summer in
• 54:40
  August. So I've probably been there, I
• 54:42
  don't know, like 15 or 16 times in the summer.
• 54:45
  And we started to go look in for mushrooms.
• 54:48
  She did a publishing course in Charleston Water Park, which I'm
• 54:52
  putting this over there. So then she got interested in
• 54:55
  that and we'd go looking. But one of the things, so the
• 54:59
  music bit not losing the point. The music video, I got music
• 55:03
  made by I have a friend who does for her friend.
• 55:08
  He's not my friend. He does like there's a lot of DJ
• 55:10
  ING and reissuing electronic and music in.
• 55:13
  He lives in London and DJs are in London a bit around his.
• 55:16
  He works as well. And so he recommended some
• 55:21
  electronic music made by people from Rovaniemi and Lapland.
• 55:26
  So therefore that sort of ambient or techno, but not only
• 55:33
  techno, more like Electro electronic music.
• 55:36
  So that's where the music came in.
• 55:39
  But also to go back what you said, like I had to write
• 55:43
  something was when you're looking at the mushrooms because
• 55:45
  everything's all one take. So sometimes you might only
• 55:49
  glimpse, you might see a mushroom for 10 seconds, but
• 55:52
  only three seconds of it will be 100% focus because that's part
• 55:57
  of the journey. Like you're walking around this
• 55:59
  forest for, you know, hours look or half an hour looking for
• 56:02
  things and then you find them. Or you might see a rain day off
• 56:05
  in the distance and you're like pulling focus, you know, on your
• 56:07
  camera to try and get it. So I wanted to try and take the
• 56:13
  the viewer on that same journey, you know, so there I was like,
• 56:18
  is that a mushroom? Then you have to look in a bit
• 56:19
  closer. So by having you, you see it
• 56:22
  focusing. You know, I did try it where if
• 56:24
  you cut out all the focus, the slightly out of focus bits, it
• 56:29
  didn't feel quite the same journey.
• 56:32
  But when you but then I felt and it was also much, much, much
• 56:37
  shorter film. But then the ambience of the
• 56:40
  soundtrack, I thought like really like provided like a nice
• 56:44
  sort of flow to it. So it became more of a I don't
• 56:50
  need to do meditation, but it was more ambient in the way that
• 56:52
  you would watch it. And then occasionally, oh,
• 56:55
  there's a mushroom and then you would only glimpse it.
• 56:57
  Whereas if you only saw all these perfect mushrooms, you can
• 56:59
  look in a book for that. There's nothing special.
• 57:01
  But when you you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't just
• 57:03
  capture that little bit. Then it felt like you that was
• 57:05
  like a lot of each time you got a real glimpse of it.
• 57:08
  That was a bit more a bit more special.
• 57:12
  I mean, obviously you couldn't say to a reindeer, can you just
• 57:14
  stop now so I can get you in focus, you know, all the
• 57:17
  rabbits, you know, hair or things.
• 57:20
  So that was and then the travelogue bit was just, you
• 57:23
  know, sometimes we would then talk about it, but we would
• 57:26
  never do more than one take. But also, you know, like Stanley
• 57:29
  Kub, you know, Stanley Kub, I mean, Jack Kerouac, the Beats
• 57:31
  and that, you know, they never wanted to edit anything.
• 57:34
  You know, they always just had the first draft the same as it
• 57:36
  was, you know, and that was part of their writing and they were
• 57:39
  always travelling and then writing with jazz and things.
• 57:42
  So then that idea was to sort of keep that you don't and it makes
• 57:46
  it quite easy to edit because you just either want the bet or
• 57:49
  you don't want to bet and you start and stop.
• 57:51
  You don't really cut in and around the scenes, which is kind
• 57:55
  of better. I mean, some documentary travel
• 57:59
  things are good when people you know, have more than one cameras
• 58:02
  and they can edit and sometimes it's better just to see a
• 58:08
  flower. I mean, I like watching things
• 58:09
  like races across the world where you you see them just
• 58:11
  following people. And I don't know if you're
• 58:14
  familiar with that show, but that was the journey that I
• 58:16
  thought it would be good to take people on.
• 58:18
  Like a travel log music video where you know you see the
• 58:23
  sights but they're not spoon fed to you.
• 58:25
  You have to do a bit of concentration work and have a
• 58:27
  bit of patience yourself because, and it was only a 9
• 58:32
  minute film, it wasn't excessively long.
• 58:34
  You know, things happened. It wasn't, there wasn't that one
• 58:39
  called nothing happens. The things did happen.
• 58:43
  So moving it forward, tell us about fake news because you,
• 58:48
  you, you released that a year or two ago and you're working on
• 58:52
  the follow up now. So where did the inspiration
• 58:54
  come for these films? What is this story?
• 58:56
  Tell us about fake news. Well, with the novel November
• 59:01
  that I started, I started to think I wanted to write
• 59:04
  something and two of my bestest of friends passed away a few
• 59:09
  years ago. So I did like there was like a
• 59:12
  group of us who were all friends and then some people passed
• 59:14
  away. And then so I was started off
• 59:17
  writing story writing about like things about those guys, those
• 59:21
  guys and different bits. And then was remembering that
• 59:26
  some, some, some someone always reached to talk about, oh, we
• 59:30
  could just do a bank robbery. We could do a bank robbery.
• 59:32
  Oh, yeah, of course you could. You know, that time when we
• 59:34
  almost had that car accident because I didn't realise there
• 59:38
  was a filter light and then turned away.
• 59:42
  And then you just start imagining, well, what if?
• 59:44
  I mean, we never even came even close to really debating it.
• 59:48
  I mean, the person used to debate, used to after 5 pints
• 59:52
  used to bring it up, oh, where can we get a backlog and
• 59:54
  everyone just shut up. But then just your imagination
• 59:58
  goes, oh, well, what if you know?
• 59:59
  And then that's where the writing idea came from.
• 1:00:03
  But the first fake, I mean, the original bit of fake news was
• 1:00:09
  I'd like the idea of just the kite just waking up in the
• 1:00:14
  story. And I like to try and tell
• 1:00:16
  stories where there's like, different.
• 1:00:18
  Characters journeys bit over the same period of time.
• 1:00:22
  So the fate, the first fate news with Brandon and and Lauren in
• 1:00:30
  that I guess that's the Wednesday going into the
• 1:00:34
  Thursday and then the faint news that we were filming.
• 1:00:37
  And so I think that the bit that you were acting in, that was the
• 1:00:41
  Friday. OK, so this is over.
• 1:00:44
  So so it just kind of because after we did the first one and
• 1:00:48
  then we were showing it to Keno, I mean, in terms of influences
• 1:00:52
  in film making terms could go into that in the second.
• 1:00:56
  So, so then Brandon and Ashley, they were, they were, oh, we
• 1:01:00
  should do some more. Have you got the the what
• 1:01:02
  happens next? What happens after the next day?
• 1:01:03
  Because it just sort of it gets to the point where it ends.
• 1:01:06
  Then you're like, well, what happens to these people
• 1:01:07
  afterwards? It doesn't with the nature of
• 1:01:11
  the story, it carries on. So they were like, yeah, maybe
• 1:01:14
  we could do this. Have you got more?
• 1:01:16
  We could do like a little web service or we could do things.
• 1:01:19
  And I was like, Oh yeah, maybe we yeah, we could maybe do that.
• 1:01:21
  And then so I said, and so then I thought, oh, what's the next
• 1:01:26
  day? And then so we've done some
• 1:01:28
  more. What would be the the yours?
• 1:01:30
  Yours is the Friday. So we've done some more the
• 1:01:32
  Thursday and then we also did some of them the Tuesday.
• 1:01:34
  Like what would be behind that? So it will be a short film on
• 1:01:39
  its own, but definitely 100%. And then assuming everyone's
• 1:01:45
  happy, which I don't know why people wouldn't be.
• 1:01:47
  I mean, it's all good exposure for everyone.
• 1:01:49
  But then maybe we, you know, we could, you know, because
• 1:01:53
  especially with edits, we, I've got a new editing program.
• 1:01:57
  And so you can now just with one with three clicks of a button
• 1:02:00
  and changing one or two things in a memory, make it go vertical
• 1:02:03
  as well. You know, like how you see
• 1:02:06
  things that are particularly on TikTok or YouTube, how even
• 1:02:10
  though we filmed wider, you know, you can it just puts it
• 1:02:13
  into or pushes it into verticals.
• 1:02:16
  So it could be a vertical. And then maybe I haven't done
• 1:02:21
  enough research to know what's the optimum or popular length,
• 1:02:26
  whether it's 3 minutes or 6 minutes or 8 minutes.
• 1:02:29
  I'm not sure which one, which one of those seems to be the
• 1:02:34
  that research is continuing. But but they seem to think they,
• 1:02:40
  I mean Brendan, I'm not sure exactly how it is 23 to 24.
• 1:02:44
  I think maybe he don't seem to think that would be a good way
• 1:02:47
  for all the actors to get exposure.
• 1:02:50
  And I thought I'd like to get as many, you know, I'm in it for,
• 1:02:55
  I've written stories and I just want to see how they move and if
• 1:02:59
  people to watch it, you know, I have my other employment, you
• 1:03:02
  know, but I, you know, and I want to just see how the more
• 1:03:06
  people want to watch it, that's fine.
• 1:03:07
  And if it's as easy to transfer to just like 3 clicks and a
• 1:03:11
  press space, you know, it's not like you're having to crop every
• 1:03:14
  shot individually. The, you know, the edit suite
• 1:03:16
  does it for you, you know, then I would be happy to, you know,
• 1:03:21
  I'm happy to look at that. I don't know how would you be
• 1:03:25
  happy if it was to to be go on TikTok or something as well.
• 1:03:31
  Yeah, I think it would be a fascinating experiment.
• 1:03:33
  I've actually seen a lot of it's.
• 1:03:36
  So I saw a series recently just like, it's fucking awful, but
• 1:03:42
  everyone in the comments agrees that it's fantastic.
• 1:03:44
  It's basically like the film equivalent of trash TV.
• 1:03:48
  Like it's, I don't know, it's, it's something to do with like
• 1:03:53
  Aceo who went to prison for six years for a woman he just met.
• 1:04:00
  Like, it's just such a stupid story.
• 1:04:04
  It's one of those like, it's almost like a soap opera vibe.
• 1:04:06
  Like they're like making you forcing you to sign up so that
• 1:04:13
  you can see the big reveal. And it is actually a full length
• 1:04:15
  film. But they put like loads of these
• 1:04:17
  clips on TikTok as well to promote it, right?
• 1:04:20
  So it's like per part 37, part 38.
• 1:04:23
  But when I say you get hooked, like you get hooked, I'm ashamed
• 1:04:28
  to say I was hooked. I was like, I want to see the
• 1:04:30
  end, damn it. Give me the fucking ending.
• 1:04:32
  Like, you know, and I can't put my finger on why it was good.
• 1:04:37
  I think it was just because, you know, it's absurd.
• 1:04:39
  You know, it's silly, but it does have a narrative and it's
• 1:04:42
  fun. And I don't think everything has
• 1:04:44
  to be like super serious to be good.
• 1:04:46
  You know, good is a matter of perspective, but you know, the
• 1:04:50
  acting was decent as well. Like it's, it wasn't like some
• 1:04:53
  of the people were a bit like, but like some of them were like
• 1:04:55
  really, really good. Like you could tell like that's,
• 1:04:58
  that's the thing as well. Like any project I go into, I
• 1:05:01
  always approach it like really seriously.
• 1:05:02
  I don't care what the project is, even if the people aren't
• 1:05:05
  taking it seriously, it's like, I will approach it that way,
• 1:05:10
  even if it's comedic. You know, I, I, I'm like going
• 1:05:13
  into it with what I would do, what is required of me in this
• 1:05:16
  role, but I'm not going to half ass this like it's I treat every
• 1:05:20
  single thing like it's, you know.
• 1:05:23
  Yeah, no, I mean I've. Had to be award-winning film or.
• 1:05:25
  Something about it, you know? Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  I mean, I'm saying something fun about it and comic about it, but
• 1:05:30
  yeah, I'm like, you know, yeah. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:05:32
  I agree with you. It's.
• 1:05:33
  Like it's, you get a lot more out of it when people are
• 1:05:35
  professional and set and and they're really going for it.
• 1:05:37
  But like, you can't necessarily predict.
• 1:05:41
  Yeah, when, when like, you know, if everyone's turned up and
• 1:05:43
  they've lit their lines or they've, you know, they've
• 1:05:45
  bought the costumes or if they want to be in, be present rather
• 1:05:50
  than, you know, Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:05:53
  Which is, I mean is every instance is different.
• 1:05:55
  Like for instance on your film there was a lot of room for
• 1:05:58
  improvisation, which is something I'm very used to.
• 1:06:02
  I'm very used to like ad libbing things.
• 1:06:06
  I've ad libbed entire scripts before.
• 1:06:08
  Like it's, you know, it, it happens sometimes.
• 1:06:12
  But like the way I look at it is like professional wrestling,
• 1:06:15
  like as long as you have a rough Cliff notes of where the scene
• 1:06:18
  is going, what we're trying to achieve with the scene, you kind
• 1:06:21
  of lean into that and, and feel for things.
• 1:06:25
  Sometimes I deviate from a script if I feel something
• 1:06:29
  should go somewhere or I'll throw something in.
• 1:06:32
  And because the worst that will happen is the director just says
• 1:06:35
  cart, don't say that. And you're like, OK, and you
• 1:06:37
  just do the scene again. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:06:39
  Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:06:41
  Yeah, I I agree. I'm always thinking ahead to
• 1:06:44
  like editing, like, oh, well, now they've got this shot,
• 1:06:47
  they've got this, they can work with this.
• 1:06:48
  You know what I mean? It's not to be like deliberately
• 1:06:52
  messing with the shot, but like, I do think you should lean in if
• 1:06:56
  you're an actor, you should lean into what feels right with what
• 1:07:00
  you're doing. Like obviously pay close
• 1:07:01
  attention to what you're being told from the director, but
• 1:07:04
  don't feel afraid to throw things in there.
• 1:07:07
  Throw what feels natural because the more natural it is, the
• 1:07:12
  better the acting will be in my opinion.
• 1:07:16
  No. Yeah, if people have a slightly
• 1:07:19
  different way of phrasing a sentence, as long as they get
• 1:07:23
  from A through B to C, and then if it's C, there has to be a
• 1:07:28
  crucial line that gives either humour or a punchline or plot
• 1:07:34
  information. As long as you know.
• 1:07:37
  I mean, I think there were some of the main things.
• 1:07:38
  I just kept notes in it. I mean, maybe if a keyword had
• 1:07:44
  been mispronounced or something like that.
• 1:07:46
  And I was like, can you just say that?
• 1:07:48
  I'm really I don't know if that was on the same day as you were
• 1:07:50
  that there was. Can you just make sure that that
• 1:07:52
  I. Remember a joke there was.
• 1:07:54
  A joke, one line out of anything just if we just get that one
• 1:07:57
  bit. But I'm very happy, you know,
• 1:07:59
  and I've read, I mean, I think where's it got?
• 1:08:02
  This is one of the best books about film making and.
• 1:08:06
  It's a movie makers master class by Lauren Tirade.
• 1:08:11
  And the film makers who he interviews, he's a French
• 1:08:14
  writer, Woody Allen, Pedro Madova, Bertolucci, Tim Burton,
• 1:08:18
  John Bowman, the Coen brothers, Cronenberg, Goddard, Jeanette,
• 1:08:25
  famously did, Amelie, Kineto, Scorsese, Stone, La von Trier.
• 1:08:30
  Well, you know, many film makers on there and a lot of them or at
• 1:08:36
  least half of those, certainly Woody Allen, Bertolucci, lesser
• 1:08:40
  extent the Coen brothers or Cronenberg.
• 1:08:43
  But a lot of them will go with the method that you're talking
• 1:08:47
  about, letting people talk. Especially now with digital
• 1:08:50
  video, because some of these guys were maybe a bit more
• 1:08:52
  forced with film and that's expensive and they only had
• 1:08:55
  certain budgets that they would want to keep things more
• 1:08:59
  confined or they would have storyboarded everything so much
• 1:09:03
  because they were having to ration film.
• 1:09:05
  But now with digital, obviously you've got the time on the set
• 1:09:09
  and the actors time. But you, you, you know, you have
• 1:09:13
  scoped for different people to, I mean, if you're particularly
• 1:09:19
  talking something in a Yorkshire accent, and if it doesn't look
• 1:09:22
  written like that, but you're talking in the Yorkshire accent,
• 1:09:24
  you might want to put certain words in to make it more
• 1:09:27
  authentic. But I learned improvisation
• 1:09:32
  through sheer force. Because believe it or not, I'd
• 1:09:36
  say 90% of my acting career has not involved rehearsals.
• 1:09:41
  It's literally you learn your lines, you shop to set and you
• 1:09:44
  nail it. And I just thought that's how it
• 1:09:47
  was done. Like I knew that rehearsals were
• 1:09:49
  a thing, but I thought it was more maybe for theatre and not
• 1:09:53
  for on screen. Then I found out no, no, no,
• 1:09:55
  they do rehearsals. And it's like, oh, so just all
• 1:09:57
  the films I've done just didn't do rehearsals.
• 1:10:01
  But I leaned into the improvisation factor because it
• 1:10:05
  felt natural, like I mentioned earlier.
• 1:10:07
  And also that's what everyone else was doing.
• 1:10:09
  So I was like, all right, we'll just throw out what feels right.
• 1:10:13
  You just became, you know, you just get used to it.
• 1:10:16
  The only thing I'd say for anyone watching, listening, if
• 1:10:20
  it's your first time acting, working on a film, best advice I
• 1:10:25
  could give is approach it with, you know, sort of blank canvas,
• 1:10:29
  but always expect it to be different.
• 1:10:30
  It always will be. And like move with that, like
• 1:10:34
  whoever the director is, try to get a good relationship with
• 1:10:38
  them, try to get an understanding from them.
• 1:10:41
  If you can't go with what you've brought.
• 1:10:44
  So like make sure whatever you've brought is, is concrete
• 1:10:48
  in your mind and you know, when it's time to, for action, you
• 1:10:53
  just do your thing and see what happens.
• 1:10:56
  Because I've seen that. I've seen some films have been
• 1:10:58
  on, it's been like lots of feedback.
• 1:11:01
  Others it's been like there's no conversation at all.
• 1:11:06
  I don't know. It's just, it's what it is.
• 1:11:09
  I mean, I think that, yeah, I mean, I think that this would be
• 1:11:14
  if you have got longer lines to learn than just one line.
• 1:11:18
  If you've got a little bit more of a speech, make sure you try
• 1:11:21
  and learn that or be off books just because then you've got way
• 1:11:25
  more time to do things or to block it.
• 1:11:27
  Because often the actors blocking can be better than what
• 1:11:30
  the director has. But he needs to have something
• 1:11:31
  in the first place in mind. Even if it's just you 3 sit at
• 1:11:35
  the set at the table and that character is going to be in
• 1:11:38
  between the two because there's they have a a triangle of
• 1:11:41
  tension between them. But then you might so, oh, you
• 1:11:44
  can stand up. But then if everyone's waiting
• 1:11:46
  for somebody else to learn their lines.
• 1:11:48
  This this is the that. That's that's when then the
• 1:11:50
  improviser gets low as if you know them, then it's easier to
• 1:11:53
  improvise. Once you know how you're going
• 1:11:55
  to get from A to B to C to D, then you can go via the letter K
• 1:12:00
  to go, then come back to it I. Mean it's unacceptable to not
• 1:12:03
  know your lines. It's OK to fuck up a few lines
• 1:12:07
  and and not maybe not like if you've got a lot of dialogue,
• 1:12:10
  it's going to happen. And like you said, you can block
• 1:12:13
  things, you can do reshoots. Like it's not the end of the
• 1:12:15
  world. But when it's just like you
• 1:12:18
  didn't learn your lines, it's like, come on.
• 1:12:20
  Because this is what I mean with the whole wrestling thing.
• 1:12:23
  If you know where the scene's going, like when I read a script
• 1:12:25
  and I read like a scene, like I'll read through the whole
• 1:12:28
  scene and I'll know the beats, I'll know where we're going.
• 1:12:31
  So like, if it's fresh in your mind, even if you forget your
• 1:12:35
  line, you can kind of figure out like, oh, I need to say this or
• 1:12:38
  roughly this. Yeah, you know, you get back on
• 1:12:40
  track. That's the key.
• 1:12:43
  I think people get too caught up on like I need to learn the
• 1:12:46
  lines verbatim and then. Yeah, that's what I Oh yeah,
• 1:12:50
  maybe more what I agree. Well, maybe, possibly.
• 1:12:53
  What more I could have said is rather than not learn the lines,
• 1:12:57
  haven't read the script, you know, to me, I haven't really
• 1:13:00
  studied. Oh, no, not studied sounds a
• 1:13:02
  strong word. But no, I think that's as you
• 1:13:04
  would say, as you, as you would say like study, you know?
• 1:13:08
  But you know what's? Going on in the scene, you,
• 1:13:10
  yeah, you know, was you, you may be able to parrot your lines,
• 1:13:13
  but if you don't know what the the person's lines to in front
• 1:13:17
  of yours is going to be and how that changes the rest of the
• 1:13:20
  scene, but I mean. Those are marker points as well.
• 1:13:23
  So yeah, you need to know who you're talking to and what
• 1:13:27
  they're saying so that you know, when your next lines come in and
• 1:13:30
  the beats and the break, like how long of a gap is there
• 1:13:33
  supposed to be? Do I walk away for a minute,
• 1:13:35
  contemplate, come back, talk, you know, is there a long,
• 1:13:39
  awkward pause? I don't know.
• 1:13:41
  Sometimes, even if it doesn't say that in the script, it's
• 1:13:43
  like, as I said before, you feel it naturally.
• 1:13:47
  So you kind of you go, OK, now I say this or maybe I say in this
• 1:13:52
  way, this inflection, this tone, you know, like all these
• 1:13:55
  different things, like I think people forget sometimes more so
• 1:14:00
  when you're coming up, you know, when you're learning, like
• 1:14:02
  obviously we're always learning. But when you're when you're
• 1:14:05
  first doing it, when you're first acting, I think there's a
• 1:14:08
  lot of just pressure and and maybe apprehension about just
• 1:14:15
  getting it right. And it's like, don't focus so
• 1:14:17
  much on getting it right. Try to focus on on becoming this
• 1:14:21
  character and feeling the lines, feeling what's going on in the
• 1:14:25
  situation. And, and trying things, that's
• 1:14:28
  one thing I read or heard in Judith Weston's book, because
• 1:14:32
  she was talks about say, oh, let's try this, you know,
• 1:14:36
  because it's not maths, it's not like 2 + 2, you know the answer.
• 1:14:39
  It's like if you give everyone permission to try, including,
• 1:14:42
  you know, the cameraman, it could be as well.
• 1:14:45
  You know, let's try this. Then it kind of takes the
• 1:14:49
  pressure off and makes you more fun.
• 1:14:51
  But but you know, just like you were saying, you know, if like
• 1:14:55
  somebody who was coming up would be, then I've got to get this
• 1:14:58
  exactly right. Then you could in your own home
• 1:15:03
  think that's exactly how it's going to be.
• 1:15:06
  And but then if the director decides he's only going to shoot
• 1:15:10
  it in a wide shot and you're, you know, doing a really close
• 1:15:14
  up thing, or the other actor decides and the director agrees
• 1:15:17
  with him that, oh, he's you're going to stand much further
• 1:15:20
  apart than you think. You know what you maybe first
• 1:15:25
  picked up then could be different.
• 1:15:27
  But in our case, something. Happens.
• 1:15:29
  I did a film with Harry Patterson and.
• 1:15:33
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:34
  He directed it. And I had envisioned that my
• 1:15:38
  character would kind of pace a little bit and have long pauses
• 1:15:43
  and then say his lines here and there.
• 1:15:45
  And there was an element of truth to that.
• 1:15:48
  But actually what he wanted was a fixed shot because this is how
• 1:15:51
  he wanted to do it. He wanted to kind of box it like
• 1:15:53
  that. And I couldn't move.
• 1:15:56
  And I was like, that really limits like this what I had in
• 1:16:00
  my head. So I had to rethink it on the
• 1:16:02
  spot. But I was like, OK, I can't.
• 1:16:05
  I can't move, but I can. I said to him, can I use my
• 1:16:08
  hands? And it was like, yes.
• 1:16:10
  And I was like, I have freedom of movement with that.
• 1:16:12
  Not too much, but just like, and you'll notice in the film, like
• 1:16:15
  at one point I kind of used the Han Solo thing, you know what I
• 1:16:19
  mean? Because like, your hands, your
• 1:16:21
  body, it's all a prop. You can use any of it, you know?
• 1:16:25
  Yeah. It's like, this is concending,
• 1:16:27
  this is. And my character happened to be
• 1:16:30
  a powerful villain, so he expected that he would be
• 1:16:33
  arrogant and condescending and kind of talking down and trying
• 1:16:36
  to incite fear and stuff. And that was the whole point was
• 1:16:39
  to build him up as as a force, as a, an imposing force.
• 1:16:45
  And then and then to have that absolutely destroyed when the
• 1:16:48
  hero comes in and and thrown into question and everything,
• 1:16:52
  you know, And Harry did a really good job of pacing that so that
• 1:16:56
  you get that feeling. But it was it was a real test
• 1:16:59
  for me as an actor to to not move.
• 1:17:01
  It made me think, oh, I'm learning something new here.
• 1:17:05
  Like I focus in more on just being still and making these
• 1:17:10
  emotions work as opposed to just maybe cheating a little bit with
• 1:17:15
  with movement. But there you go.
• 1:17:18
  So. Yeah, look, well, look forward
• 1:17:19
  to seeing that film. Yeah.
• 1:17:20
  What was it called it? Was it was just like a concept
• 1:17:25
  called, what did he call it? Medieval Superman, I think he
• 1:17:28
  called it. Oh yeah, I think maybe he did
• 1:17:31
  mention that to me when we first when we first did the first
• 1:17:36
  news. It was good.
• 1:17:39
  Yeah. Because.
• 1:17:40
  Because that had a bit of the concept, because I've been
• 1:17:41
  watching quite a lot of like the Finnish film maker Aki Kawasaki
• 1:17:49
  films. Because I quite liked how he
• 1:17:50
  time stamps his films in a way by having similar turn on the
• 1:17:53
  radio and in broken, broken flies, brokenly fallen leaves,
• 1:18:01
  you know, they turn on and then there's something about the
• 1:18:03
  Ukraine and he's like bloody war, you know.
• 1:18:06
  And I quite liked how that was. That's why like in a sense, it
• 1:18:09
  was originally called exam blast fast because they were going to
• 1:18:14
  an exam. But then the blast thing could
• 1:18:15
  also be then like the bank robbery aspect.
• 1:18:19
  But then it kind of I changed it to like fake news because then
• 1:18:22
  when there's the the videos talking about fake news, which
• 1:18:25
  would then be, you know, related to Trump and the Don Donald, you
• 1:18:31
  know, the Donald. And but yeah, it has been maybe
• 1:18:35
  like, yeah, a lot of good working with a lot of fun
• 1:18:40
  working with the actors. I think we've really got yeah,
• 1:18:44
  quite a lot filmed and, you know, we did quite a lot of good
• 1:18:49
  improvisations. Again, some of the script that
• 1:18:52
  we had on Wednesday with you guys and with Mercedes and
• 1:18:59
  Bethany when we were all at the table and then the lads came in
• 1:19:03
  as well. I thought those scenes worked,
• 1:19:06
  worked really well. And then the scenes with the
• 1:19:10
  when you, you know, extract well, not to give away to the
• 1:19:13
  plot too much because I hope people go and watch it.
• 1:19:15
  But when they when you confront the lads, I'll just go with that
• 1:19:20
  part and say that. Then I thought those seem that
• 1:19:23
  that seem work really well. And we did try it a few
• 1:19:25
  different ways. I thought that you and Brandon
• 1:19:30
  got the coats. Name's Cappy, you know.
• 1:19:34
  Very good. Fun.
• 1:19:36
  Brandon. Yeah, he's a great actor.
• 1:19:39
  Harry, too. Everyone was was good.
• 1:19:44
  Let's move it forward. A couple of final questions for
• 1:19:46
  you to sort of round off today's show.
• 1:19:50
  What has film making taught you about life?
• 1:19:52
  Well, some be, be prepared, be try, try and be empathetic
• 1:20:01
  towards other people and then the context of things, whether
• 1:20:07
  or not it's. You know your role or other
• 1:20:11
  people's time or other and other things.
• 1:20:14
  And then also Stanley Kubri also just say helped if you're a
• 1:20:20
  paranoid warrior, if you're a film maker, because then you can
• 1:20:23
  try and imagine in the future everything that might go right
• 1:20:25
  or wrong. Then you can make a list of, Oh
• 1:20:28
  yeah, remember to pick up. Remember gaffer tape.
• 1:20:31
  Remember this. I mean, some things might seem
• 1:20:33
  when you're doing a lot of it all by yourself.
• 1:20:35
  Like I haven't got an assistant director that I work with.
• 1:20:37
  I haven't got a continuity person that we talked about
• 1:20:40
  earlier. There's me doing the directing
• 1:20:43
  and producing and writing and casting and and then there's Jay
• 1:20:47
  doing sound, Dino doing sound and RT or and Patrick previously
• 1:20:55
  on the first film, you know, doing the and I did the sound on
• 1:20:59
  the first film as well as acts because one of the actors
• 1:21:01
  dropped out in the day. That's how I got involved in
• 1:21:03
  acting. So be prepared because I had
• 1:21:06
  done a little bit of acting, the odd line here and there.
• 1:21:09
  Although many years ago I did a film with, you know, the guy
• 1:21:11
  Jonathan Pye. Have you ever seen Jonathan Pye?
• 1:21:14
  I did a film with him. We were in the same House of
• 1:21:16
  residents at uni together and the and so when he was on the
• 1:21:22
  drama course at man met and I was doing the television course
• 1:21:25
  and our friend Craig did a film and changed the actors on the
• 1:21:29
  day and he said no, I think you'd be I was just filming it.
• 1:21:32
  I was filming it, although we blocked it together.
• 1:21:35
  So we guess it was Co directing credit.
• 1:21:37
  That was the first thing I did. And that was inspired by the
• 1:21:39
  Dogma films. You know, that came out like the
• 1:21:41
  last one, Cheer and the Fester and by Thomas Vinterberg and
• 1:21:46
  people like that when you had this list of rules where you're
• 1:21:48
  going to film something and but everyone always broke at least a
• 1:21:52
  couple of them. And that was using like a camera
• 1:21:55
  from the storeroom at uni. And so we filmed that.
• 1:22:01
  And so he said, I'll just just act.
• 1:22:03
  And then I also remember I thought, well, how would my
• 1:22:06
  friend Greg Parks say it? So I just, I just said it
• 1:22:09
  exactly how my friend Greg Parks would would say the scene
• 1:22:11
  because and then everyone seems to, you know, that was how would
• 1:22:15
  he have tried? There was a good person pointing
• 1:22:18
  a gun at me. And I remember seeing at school
• 1:22:23
  someone had a basketball and he was going to throw it at his
• 1:22:25
  head from very short distance and he talked him out of it.
• 1:22:28
  He just turned it back on himself and he was like, you
• 1:22:30
  know, I bet you think you're so clever, you know, with throwing
• 1:22:33
  the basketball. You know, you what are you
• 1:22:34
  doing? Why is this happening?
• 1:22:36
  Why is this going on? And then he talked the person
• 1:22:37
  around. So I did the same thing with the
• 1:22:39
  gun and it and everyone seemed to really like it.
• 1:22:43
  And then so I thought, oh, maybe you could do a little bit of
• 1:22:46
  acting, but I didn't plan to on this.
• 1:22:49
  It was just somebody dropped out as I was getting in the car to
• 1:22:52
  drive there. And I was like, well, I'm not
• 1:22:54
  cancelling the whole shoot and everything just because of that.
• 1:22:57
  And Harry had he was doing sound.
• 1:22:59
  So then he jumped from sound to the main acting.
• 1:23:01
  He was going to do sound and then he was just going to he was
• 1:23:03
  going to be the part that then I was, which then became a little
• 1:23:09
  bit longer my part because the girl Lauren, who I first was
• 1:23:14
  acting with on the first one, she was she actress.
• 1:23:16
  She part of the youth. She runs like the youth
• 1:23:19
  development for children and youths at the Lowry.
• 1:23:24
  So that the improvised scene got a bit longer and then so I
• 1:23:28
  guess, but people always say there's that saying isn't there.
• 1:23:31
  You know, you get the cast you're supposed to have when it
• 1:23:35
  starts, that's the cash you're supposed to have.
• 1:23:37
  I mean whether people say it for coincidence or look or to make
• 1:23:40
  everyone feel like connected and solidified, you know that's what
• 1:23:43
  how it was supposed to be. Because I had a tiny doubt about
• 1:23:46
  the guy because his messages were very very short.
• 1:23:49
  Like I've asked him a question or he never gave more than 3
• 1:23:53
  words reply, which would have thought was strange, but and
• 1:23:57
  then when he didn't, he wasn't able to do it, then I was like,
• 1:24:00
  OK then well, that's fine. So maybe this is how it was
• 1:24:03
  meant to be, you know, but maybe I was meant to be active really.
• 1:24:07
  I was meant to be in it. And maybe how he was in it.
• 1:24:09
  And him and Brandon had a really they became firm friends really
• 1:24:12
  quickly and had a great chemistry.
• 1:24:14
  And, and actually Henry looked a lot more like one of my friends
• 1:24:19
  that died actually. He looks actually looks quite
• 1:24:23
  he's quite a lot taller, but he looked quite a bit like him
• 1:24:25
  actually, and he looked quite different in person.
• 1:24:28
  How he when I, you know, when I met him in person to what is the
• 1:24:31
  pictures he you know, he sent me with his, you know, his acting
• 1:24:36
  photos. He looked different because his
• 1:24:38
  hair was, you know, his hair was looked different when you saw
• 1:24:41
  him in person to have it been staged.
• 1:24:43
  So sometimes, you know, there's all films that have compromises
• 1:24:49
  and changes from any script and all acting performances of
• 1:24:53
  changes from what you started. Once you get in the room with
• 1:24:56
  the director and camera and you know, the limitations draw up.
• 1:25:02
  But that doesn't mean the contradiction has to be spun
• 1:25:04
  negatively. You know, just that you know,
• 1:25:07
  things can can change. So be open minded to the be
• 1:25:12
  fluid and flexible and don't be 100% set in about how that
• 1:25:21
  necessarily is. I mean, another thing maybe I
• 1:25:25
  mentioned that, you know, like we we, as I said, we filmed the
• 1:25:28
  choose the Wednesday, the Thursday and you're a bit the
• 1:25:31
  Friday. So then we're hoping to do then
• 1:25:33
  another scene. If anybody knows any haunted
• 1:25:35
  house right in the comments below, if you know any good
• 1:25:37
  locations of a haunted house or a warehouse or somewhere that
• 1:25:40
  could be like a spooky location. So that's one of the things
• 1:25:43
  we're looking for at the moment. We've had a few suggested which
• 1:25:46
  I've emailed and so we'll see about that.
• 1:25:49
  I mean, I thought it was just the other story with how you
• 1:25:54
  said how did it start fake news I I've did film it a long time
• 1:25:58
  ago. The first bit of Fake news with
• 1:26:02
  Christine Carla McKinnon Phibbe Carla McKinnon, she heard her
• 1:26:07
  dad directed Hideous Kinky with Kate Winslet and Small Faces
• 1:26:11
  with and her sister produced like Touching the Void, which
• 1:26:16
  won a BAFTA for best documentary about people at Everest.
• 1:26:19
  She used to go to Sheffield University was a good friend of
• 1:26:21
  my friend Connor McKee, who I started making films with quite
• 1:26:24
  a long a while ago. We shot it all in Manchester and
• 1:26:27
  I again on the day I had to act in it that person someone didn't
• 1:26:30
  turn up, so I acted in it. But then that tape burnt in a
• 1:26:33
  house fire. You know, if you look in the end
• 1:26:36
  of the credits and says this is a reshoot on this, we never got
• 1:26:40
  ready to finish editing it. And I was just telling Patrick
• 1:26:43
  it Keno Night, which is short film night, Keno Film
• 1:26:48
  Manchester. It's just the original short
• 1:26:50
  film night going since 1995. I haven't been involved all that
• 1:26:55
  time, obviously. But then he said, oh, well, we
• 1:26:59
  should reshoot it. And so we thought, Oh yeah,
• 1:27:01
  we'll reshoot it. And then so we tried to keep it.
• 1:27:04
  Well, we did keep it under 10 minutes with us about 11.
• 1:27:08
  And then as I said, then the actors, so in terms of like the
• 1:27:11
  flexible and how things can change.
• 1:27:12
  And then the Brandon and Ashley, they were like, oh, we should do
• 1:27:15
  some more. Can we do, you know, let's do
• 1:27:17
  some more? And it's like, oh, yeah, I could
• 1:27:18
  find more. And then now as I said, it could
• 1:27:21
  go to try for TikTok. But then also we're getting up
• 1:27:24
  to where without repeating that. So those are the rushes we're
• 1:27:27
  getting up to like about 50 minutes.
• 1:27:30
  You know, if you just have it on the timeline, there's almost 50
• 1:27:33
  minutes. So now it's like, does that,
• 1:27:35
  could that lead to other opportunities, you know, for
• 1:27:38
  the, for the script? I, I know my friend said to me
• 1:27:42
  the other day, he said, well, you've got enough now.
• 1:27:45
  You could send this off as a pilot.
• 1:27:47
  You could either, maybe you could either show it open you,
• 1:27:51
  you open all the information out in the storytelling and then you
• 1:27:55
  have all the funny bits and that's what comedy is.
• 1:27:58
  You sure you open things out so people know everything so they
• 1:28:01
  can laugh. Or you could with a couple of
• 1:28:04
  tweaks with the editing, you could have more of a thriller.
• 1:28:08
  Then you withhold the information, which is probably
• 1:28:10
  would work better. Do you think that TikTok series
• 1:28:13
  that you watched was better because it only had you had to
• 1:28:16
  keep getting you little bits of information and, you know, DEET
• 1:28:21
  it out to you? So then you wanted to know what
• 1:28:23
  was going next to get to the end.
• 1:28:24
  Is that how that kept you hooked on it?
• 1:28:28
  Yeah, I mean, I suppose so. But I I, you know, I, I don't
• 1:28:30
  really know why why it was addictive.
• 1:28:33
  I think it's just because it's short form content and it's
• 1:28:37
  trashy but fun maybe. Like I would never ever choose
• 1:28:41
  to sit down and watch that as a full length film by choice.
• 1:28:45
  But the short form kind of trashy vibe of it drew drew me
• 1:28:49
  in and now I want to know kind of thing.
• 1:28:51
  So it's there's something there. I don't know what it is, but.
• 1:28:55
  So did so did you watch it on your phone or did you watch it
• 1:28:58
  on your laptop? Fine.
• 1:29:01
  Right. So yeah, you were.
• 1:29:02
  You watched, started watching it, and then you just kept
• 1:29:04
  watching it, whereas you wouldn't.
• 1:29:06
  You feel it was more than likely that you would have if you had
• 1:29:12
  all these options of films in front of you.
• 1:29:14
  Yeah, never, never, never. But like, a lot of people in the
• 1:29:17
  comments were saying the same thing, like, Oh yeah, I saw all
• 1:29:20
  these clips, got hooked, and then went out my way to watch
• 1:29:23
  it. And it's like, I can understand
• 1:29:24
  why. OK, yeah, because there's
• 1:29:28
  there's some sites people who've been someone said to me about
• 1:29:31
  well, Oh well, if you, you know, had them the the if you like the
• 1:29:37
  the short film of like the first one, then the second one that
• 1:29:40
  we're doing, then the third one, they get to a haunted house.
• 1:29:42
  If you, you know, put those three together and then you
• 1:29:44
  could, you know, you. If you if you were going to do
• 1:29:47
  it, the way to do it would be, yeah, pick up the the fun comedy
• 1:29:52
  bits, but pick out specifically cliffhangers, like endless
• 1:29:57
  cliffhangers that force you like, oh, if you want to see the
• 1:30:01
  ending, watch the film, watch more da da da.
• 1:30:03
  And it's frustrating as fuck, but it would drive traction
• 1:30:06
  towards the full length or the short film or whatever you
• 1:30:09
  decide to do with it. So my advice if you're going to
• 1:30:12
  go down that route is use TikTok as a form of advertising for it
• 1:30:17
  and push people to go watch the full film via those short film
• 1:30:22
  short clips. I mean, yeah.
• 1:30:24
  I mean, I suppose as as an actor, you wouldn't, you'd be OK
• 1:30:27
  if it was. I mean, it's all, it's
• 1:30:29
  definitely going to be a short version.
• 1:30:30
  Well, I already, I already agreed to be in the film, so how
• 1:30:32
  you choose to use it now is up to you.
• 1:30:34
  So, I mean, but obviously I'm not going to say no to that.
• 1:30:38
  It's more advertising. Like, fuck yeah.
• 1:30:41
  If you're asking me, would I want to be in more films?
• 1:30:44
  Yes, that's the question. But yeah, man, I'm always
• 1:30:51
  looking for new films. Yeah, my my listeners know this.
• 1:30:55
  No, no, I mean it's just yeah, I mean, it's just like with the
• 1:30:58
  new editing program I've got, it's just so fast and it just
• 1:31:01
  gives you all these. It's not doing it for you.
• 1:31:04
  It's not like I'm doing AI editing.
• 1:31:05
  I will say that clearly I'm I'm editing it myself.
• 1:31:08
  But you know, it just seems to given your.
• 1:31:10
  Suggestions you? Suppose the suggestions and you
• 1:31:13
  know, it just seems. Why not go for it man?
• 1:31:17
  So I think, I think, yeah, I think it could be, you know,
• 1:31:19
  we're supposed to. I mean, there's that other thing
• 1:31:21
  that I've heard about this week. I don't know if you've heard
• 1:31:23
  about this, but I'll just tell you about it in case you're
• 1:31:25
  interested in or the your listeners are interested.
• 1:31:28
  You know one thing I've seen that again, the younger people,
• 1:31:32
  not to sound like I'm whatever, but you know, the the the way
• 1:31:36
  that the kids what the way they're doing their short films
• 1:31:39
  is they're making the short film.
• 1:31:42
  The the The thing is a bit like how it used to be said that
• 1:31:45
  cinema. Oh no, I'll just say it first.
• 1:31:46
  Then I'll do the analogy after is that they're making short
• 1:31:49
  films and then they're wanting to then make behind the scenes
• 1:31:54
  content of how they made the short films.
• 1:31:56
  And then they're put in that. If you want to see how I made my
• 1:31:58
  short film, you have to then click on a button and pay to
• 1:32:01
  see. Have you heard this is?
• 1:32:04
  Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was, what I was referring to.
• 1:32:07
  Oh. Yeah.
• 1:32:10
  Oh, because then, but then obviously people are like what
• 1:32:12
  in the comments, like why? How is this happening?
• 1:32:14
  And then I suppose it's and people said, oh, well that
• 1:32:16
  influence that person who's acted in their film is like
• 1:32:19
  100,000 or 1,000,000 followers. So therefore they have.
• 1:32:24
  Yeah, but this is this is where the part of the problem though,
• 1:32:27
  isn't it? Like who cares how many
• 1:32:29
  followers someone has that doesn't?
• 1:32:31
  I know I. Can't they're a good actor or
• 1:32:34
  not? Yeah, No, no, no, no.
• 1:32:36
  That's what I mean. I agree with you because that's
• 1:32:38
  like can be the thing. Somebody might not be a good
• 1:32:40
  actor. That's what that's what people
• 1:32:41
  care about. Like the most common question I
• 1:32:43
  get as an actor is what would I know you from?
• 1:32:46
  Which like undermines the seven years of acting I've had in
• 1:32:51
  working in projects all around the entire world.
• 1:32:53
  It's like, oh, because I'm not a fucking Hollywood actor, that
• 1:32:55
  means I'm not a good enough actor for you, does it?
• 1:32:57
  Fuck you to all the people that ever asked me that question.
• 1:33:00
  And I'll continuously pester actors with questions like that.
• 1:33:04
  Like if you ask a question like that, you don't understand what
• 1:33:08
  acting is and what the discipline is.
• 1:33:11
  And like, even people at the very top, like you ever wonder
• 1:33:13
  why? I don't know, De Niro still
• 1:33:16
  fucking does movies at this age. It's not to pay for his private
• 1:33:18
  jets or whatever. It's because he loves acting.
• 1:33:21
  Yeah, exactly. And.
• 1:33:22
  Performance and making a story. That's why exactly bothered to
• 1:33:26
  do this in the first place. Yeah.
• 1:33:29
  I mean, that's what that's what I kind of.
• 1:33:30
  Yeah, that's what I'm, that's what I was sort of saying.
• 1:33:33
  I mean, it's the analogy of like, you know, you know,
• 1:33:35
  cinemas, they showed films to sell popcorn, you know, you made
• 1:33:38
  a short film and to show the behind the scene and to show
• 1:33:41
  this behind the scene things to try and do some, you know, the
• 1:33:45
  other thing, I suppose some. Popcorn is more expensive than
• 1:33:50
  the fucking ticket. Yeah 69699 the day I paid
• 1:33:54
  yesterday on Friday night for small pop or smallest medium, of
• 1:33:58
  course popcorn Jesus. And the ticket was 6 LB with a
• 1:34:04
  scheme through you know some companies get cheaper tickets
• 1:34:07
  because they have affiliation anyway.
• 1:34:10
  So the 6 LB was the ticket. But yeah, so, but I think, you
• 1:34:15
  know, some of the some film makers, some actors don't have
• 1:34:17
  any, you know, they're mysterious.
• 1:34:19
  They're not on, you know, they're not on social media.
• 1:34:21
  So there's the other side of the coin as well there.
• 1:34:24
  They have them. I think it's different audiences
• 1:34:29
  I suppose if people are looking at the social media numbers
• 1:34:34
  rather than the acting tapes or just watching what are the short
• 1:34:38
  films they've been in the past then?
• 1:34:41
  My point is. About.
• 1:34:44
  People won't bother to check you out unless you're famous, have a
• 1:34:48
  huge social media following, or have been in noteworthy series
• 1:34:54
  or films. Like if you're if you don't have
• 1:34:58
  any of the above, people just assume you're terrible because
• 1:35:01
  the machine is not behind you. That's what society is like.
• 1:35:04
  Well, that's what I thought that if if this was long enough that
• 1:35:08
  they just stand as long. Because that's another thing
• 1:35:11
  that I've heard people say is like if they look in IMDb and
• 1:35:14
  they're looking at an actor and they've only just only done
• 1:35:16
  short films, but then they say, oh, they're in a feature.
• 1:35:18
  They're like, oh, they're because in a feature, whatever
• 1:35:21
  the whatever the feature is, you know, somebody thought that so
• 1:35:25
  that. I don't know man, a little bit
• 1:35:27
  over the last 10-15 years, short films have been becoming more
• 1:35:30
  and more respected, you know what I mean?
• 1:35:32
  Like there, there's award, so many award-winning short films
• 1:35:36
  that have won awards even like the Oscars and shit like that.
• 1:35:39
  Or maybe the Baftas, I don't know.
• 1:35:41
  One of the one of the major film festivals, there isn't like
• 1:35:45
  that. One of the main ones, I can't
• 1:35:46
  remember which one, but there is like an award for short films.
• 1:35:49
  So it's like it's becoming, of course, yes.
• 1:35:51
  Oh, yeah. I mean, there is certainly like
• 1:35:53
  Oscars. I mean, I'm not saying that.
• 1:35:54
  I mean, I love short films. I mean, I watched nearly 1000
• 1:35:58
  last year to program that, you know, Film Festival.
• 1:36:01
  It is a big, it is a big one for for actors.
• 1:36:03
  I mean, like I was technically part of a feature.
• 1:36:06
  I don't know if it ever was aired or not, but I acted and
• 1:36:10
  got paid for it and did it. There's a foreign film and I
• 1:36:15
  have no idea to this day if it's been released.
• 1:36:16
  And that's a frustrating thing for me as an actor as well.
• 1:36:19
  There's so many projects I've done over the years that have
• 1:36:22
  never been released, never seen the light of day.
• 1:36:24
  And then what you see online is, is what was chosen to be
• 1:36:28
  released. And you know, it is what it is.
• 1:36:31
  But I'm always looking for opportunities to be, I can say
• 1:36:34
  from the actor's perspective, like obviously being part of a
• 1:36:37
  feature is, is huge. Like you, you want that, you
• 1:36:39
  want to do as much as possible that that's kind of the goal
• 1:36:43
  really, you know? Yeah, well, you know, you're a
• 1:36:47
  great actor. I thought you you're a
• 1:36:48
  fantastic, fantastic, you know, job and performance when with
• 1:36:52
  the acting in the in the role in the fake news.
• 1:36:58
  Thanks for the. Opportunity, yeah.
• 1:36:59
  So that I would, you know, recommend you to act and if you
• 1:37:04
  want to, if you want him to act, but if you you want to see more
• 1:37:09
  of the ACT and I think there's going to be soon like a little
• 1:37:11
  clip on Instagram. Oh, fun.
• 1:37:15
  Which be. So you're trialling this short
• 1:37:19
  clip thing there and then you're going to try it on TikTok.
• 1:37:21
  Is that right? Is that or is that just like a
• 1:37:23
  little teaser thing? A little teaser, but because
• 1:37:27
  with the TikTok thing, I'm still researching as to whether it's
• 1:37:29
  best to have a separate account for the film or just to, I mean,
• 1:37:36
  I have, I don't have very many followers on TikTok.
• 1:37:39
  No I tried it all in the same place.
• 1:37:41
  Or do you mean do you mean set up?
• 1:37:45
  Is it not your personal TikTok account but a film?
• 1:37:47
  Like like, like I have a TikTok account that's called Rich Howe
• 1:37:52
  180 or something like that. And I don't have loads of things
• 1:37:56
  I I've put up, put some things about films.
• 1:37:58
  Sometimes I go to a gig and I film 30 seconds of a song and
• 1:38:01
  then press, press go into it. Are you able to live stream yet?
• 1:38:05
  I'd I haven't tried to do I haven't tried, so I don't know.
• 1:38:07
  Do you have to have a certain number of followers?
• 1:38:10
  To do that or something like that maybe.
• 1:38:13
  No I'm not, I haven't got 1000 but that's what I mean.
• 1:38:16
  So I mean do I start a new do I start a new TikTok then call it
• 1:38:21
  fake news MCR or fake news movie Manchester for example?
• 1:38:28
  Or do I keep going with the one I've got because I need so I'll
• 1:38:33
  have to start and get a new e-mail address to to do a new
• 1:38:36
  one, you'll have to start get a new e-mail address.
• 1:38:38
  I guess it's up to you, man. I don't know, no.
• 1:38:40
  No, I mean I'm just talking out loud.
• 1:38:42
  I mean, just answering your question, am I going to put some
• 1:38:45
  TikTok? So I don't know whether just put
• 1:38:47
  it on now or whether to wait till I've got all the content
• 1:38:51
  ready. Oh, get the film done first.
• 1:38:53
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get the sort of get
• 1:38:54
  the bits done and then so then it has the momentum of like when
• 1:38:57
  it's finished or whether to go with the momentum whilst things
• 1:39:00
  are happening. Look at it like this, like you
• 1:39:02
  get your film done, you've got your finished narrative, you.
• 1:39:07
  Because I imagine you want to do the whole Film Festival thing,
• 1:39:12
  putting out short for all the standards.
• 1:39:13
  That you do. I want to send it to the short
• 1:39:15
  Film Festival. Right, right, right.
• 1:39:17
  So I would say do it after all of that, you know, and pick a
• 1:39:25
  place that you want to release it, you know, wherever you the
• 1:39:27
  platform that you want to have it released on.
• 1:39:29
  And then do this like essentially, because it's
• 1:39:33
  essentially an advertising run, is it not?
• 1:39:35
  You know, you have all these different shorts that are
• 1:39:39
  pushing traffic to where can I see this film?
• 1:39:41
  I need to see this film. Where, where, where?
• 1:39:44
  And then it's like there's a link there or, or something you
• 1:39:48
  know well. Yeah, so I mean, if you want to
• 1:39:51
  find out more like and subscribe, but fake news movie
• 1:39:59
  MOV i.e. then that's on Instagram.
• 1:40:02
  And and then there's also behind the scenes shoots.
• 1:40:06
  We've got loads of good, great behind the scenes shots.
• 1:40:09
  So it's fake news MOV i.e, no gaps, no capitals and just fake.
• 1:40:16
  News Movie. And TikTok is at Rich Howe
• 1:40:24
  HOWERICHHOWE 70. That's the TikTok and.
• 1:40:32
  Make a new one. Make.
• 1:40:34
  Yeah, yeah. Consistent.
• 1:40:37
  That's what I'm. Thinking so you'll get the
• 1:40:39
  consistency of the name, so yeah, please.
• 1:40:44
  Also you can jump into the hashtag of fake news, you can
• 1:40:49
  get traction from that, which is is just kind of wait in there
• 1:40:52
  really isn't it for the. Yeah, well, yeah, I have.
• 1:40:55
  That has occurred to me. Yeah, there we are.
• 1:40:57
  So that'd be good. And Keno Film Festival for
• 1:41:01
  Northwest film makers who made a short film look in our Facebook,
• 1:41:05
  Instagram page. We are taking going to show some
• 1:41:08
  films in March and April and May.
• 1:41:11
  So if you made a film in the last two years or 18 months and
• 1:41:18
  it's less than 20 minutes long, have a look.
• 1:41:22
  There's a few things to fill in. There's like 10 questions or 10
• 1:41:25
  little bits of advice you need and just, you know, send us the
• 1:41:28
  link. We're interested in Sage will
• 1:41:32
  be. So that's send it in now or next
• 1:41:36
  month, and there'll be a screening in the last two weeks
• 1:41:39
  of March and then one in April and one in May.
• 1:41:43
  So we'd love to love to see your work.
• 1:41:48
  So yeah, happy days. Yeah, that'd be good.
• 1:41:51
  Excellent. Thank you very much.
• 1:41:53
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:41:56
  I was about to say so, but I don't know if it's good advice
• 1:41:58
  because I don't know if I've really followed it.
• 1:41:59
  But I remember Charlie, my script writing shooter, who's
• 1:42:04
  written a script writing book that's quite good actually.
• 1:42:06
  Charlie Morvitz, his daughter Eleanor actually is the one of
• 1:42:09
  the BBC Manchester. She does like the BBCBBC
• 1:42:14
  reports. Remember he remember he told us
• 1:42:16
  he can't ease integrity, but I don't know if I've tried to go
• 1:42:19
  against that a bit, but I tried to be really integrity, have a
• 1:42:22
  lot of integrity. But he used to say that's about
• 1:42:26
  writing. Whether he actually, no, that's
• 1:42:28
  the whole pretty long conversation.
• 1:42:29
  But I don't know if that's the best bit of writing.
• 1:42:31
  I don't know, I think maybe just to be flexible or have an open
• 1:42:36
  minded and try and have empathy. Try I guess maybe try and be
• 1:42:41
  somewhat authentic. I don't know.
• 1:42:45
  Keep things in focus. Don't forget to wipe balance.
• 1:42:50
  You know, a beginning has a middle and a film has a
• 1:42:52
  beginning, middle and end, not always in that order.
• 1:42:55
  Just just just keep, just keep, keep at it.
• 1:42:57
  If you want to do it, if you, you, if you want to do it films
• 1:43:01
  or acts in or music, you know, and it's in you, you, you will
• 1:43:05
  do it and just find a way to do it or keep doing it, you know,
• 1:43:11
  Whereas if it's not a burden of desire in you, you know, maybe
• 1:43:16
  there are other things that you can, you know, maybe also look
• 1:43:20
  at, I don't know, what's the beach?
• 1:43:22
  Person. Oh, sorry.
• 1:43:24
  No, no, sorry. I was just, I don't think I've
• 1:43:27
  ever been asked that question before, so those were just ideas
• 1:43:31
  that popped in my head. Not sure what the best advice to
• 1:43:34
  be honest I've ever received is. Thanks for sharing.
• 1:43:37
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:43:39
  You, you. Maybe it's a bit like what we
• 1:43:42
  talked about the other day. You know, time.
• 1:43:44
  Time only happens once. You know, like, you know, one of
• 1:43:49
  the ideas of fake news, especially with the bank
• 1:43:51
  robbers, is, is it better to regret something you have done
• 1:43:53
  or something you haven't? You know, you can, you can, you
• 1:43:56
  can only, you know, you can only, you know, spend your time
• 1:44:00
  or spend. I mean, somebody might spend,
• 1:44:02
  say spend money. I don't want to sound capitalist
• 1:44:03
  in the way, but you know, you can only spend do your time
• 1:44:05
  once. So, you know, do you go to that
• 1:44:09
  gig and then have to, you know, put it on your credit card or do
• 1:44:13
  you not and then plan for the future?
• 1:44:16
  Or do you always think about tomorrow or is it today?
• 1:44:19
  You know, you know, that's there's no right or wrong answer
• 1:44:24
  with that. That's always like the, you
• 1:44:26
  know, the delicate, you know, the balance.
• 1:44:28
  I mean, you know, I once paid money to go and see The Rolling
• 1:44:31
  Stones and I tried to forget exactly how much I paid for that
• 1:44:34
  ticket. But you know, the rolling stores
• 1:44:37
  might not be around forever. And I knew I and so I reasoned
• 1:44:40
  it to myself that I could walk to Old Trafford from my house
• 1:44:43
  and not spend any money on food or drinks.
• 1:44:45
  So which I did buy a cider, but you know, about I, you know what
• 1:44:49
  I mean? You know, we're all on this ride
• 1:44:52
  this you only get 50 summers. That's a piece of advice.
• 1:44:55
  I heard somebody say we only have 50 summers on average that
• 1:44:58
  we get to decide what we're going to do because we're until
• 1:45:01
  we're about 18, our parents and Terry can stop us.
• 1:45:03
  And then once we get to a certain other age, you know, are
• 1:45:06
  you still able to do that? So if you want to make films in
• 1:45:09
  those 50 summers or you want a mountain bike or you want to try
• 1:45:13
  and play music festivals, whatever, you know, I don't
• 1:45:16
  know, you know, do what feels good and try and not harm
• 1:45:21
  anybody else or home anybody else's feelings in that time.
• 1:45:24
  And you know, try and be positive and try and help people
• 1:45:30
  on the way and be encouraging to people and you know, be nice.
• 1:45:35
  I know in other countries when I go abroad, people think the word
• 1:45:37
  nice is a lot better. Whereas here I think sometimes
• 1:45:40
  when people say nice, they think, oh, nice.
• 1:45:42
  Well, when you go to like Scandinavia somewhere and they
• 1:45:44
  go, oh, that's nice. I think, I don't know if it's
• 1:45:46
  the translation, the way they've learned it, but I think they
• 1:45:48
  think it's like a lot better way to be, you know, nice.
• 1:45:51
  That's a good thing. You know, as well as maybe over
• 1:45:53
  here we're a little bit too like hustly or a bit like not hustly,
• 1:45:58
  you know what I mean? It's like, oh, you know, people
• 1:46:01
  are a bit down on that idea. But I think people, you know,
• 1:46:04
  people can be do good things with encouraging and helping
• 1:46:07
  other people. And it doesn't always have to be
• 1:46:09
  like rat race or, you know, that type of thing.
• 1:46:13
  So. But yeah, you know, try and
• 1:46:16
  enjoy your time on this planet and, you know, enjoy it maybe
• 1:46:21
  with other people or on your own, you know, with you, you
• 1:46:25
  know, get involved, get involved in whatever you're interested
• 1:46:30
  in. Some food tell.
• 1:46:31
  Stories tell stories. Thank you very much for sharing.
• 1:46:35
  Final question for you. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:46:37
  projects or final thoughts that you'd like to share with our
• 1:46:40
  listeners? Well, there's the fake news
• 1:46:42
  which we discussed in the different edits.
• 1:46:45
  Then there is when I, when we're in Finland, we do some filming.
• 1:46:51
  I do some filming. So there's a documentary thing
• 1:46:55
  which is called Finland Trees. It's about how in, in the
• 1:47:00
  winter, well, with climate change in Finland, how there's
• 1:47:04
  been a bit less, the seasons have moved forward a bit.
• 1:47:08
  So the less more trees have died out in the summer a bit, which
• 1:47:12
  has affected like reindeers and grazing and affecting some of
• 1:47:16
  the nature. So it's a travel documentary
• 1:47:20
  about carbon neutrality, which is a little bit, you know, about
• 1:47:24
  carbon. You know, Finland aims to be the
• 1:47:26
  first Western country to be carbon neutral by 2035.
• 1:47:30
  Whether that's now whether that's going to be possible or
• 1:47:32
  not be it's a good. So that's editing that and a
• 1:47:36
  little as well. And Space Noodle, if you make
• 1:47:40
  electric music open mic night in Charlton Tuesdays, the last
• 1:47:45
  fourth Tuesday of the month when that it's free to play.
• 1:47:49
  There's no money involved. It's just a night.
• 1:47:51
  You can bring along your synths and your groove boxes or backing
• 1:47:56
  tracks that you made in Garage Band and press play and sing
• 1:47:59
  Stand there and you know, sing like you know, Kate Bush or you
• 1:48:03
  know, I'll bring your Apex twin or your air or you know, your
• 1:48:06
  techno space noodle MCR on Instagram.
• 1:48:10
  You can find us there. DM if you want to be interested
• 1:48:13
  in playing. I know you do open mic nights.
• 1:48:16
  Maybe I'll because I like playing Blues and stuff as well.
• 1:48:19
  Maybe I'll come along to that. Do you do it in the Grand
• 1:48:21
  Central? No, I was.
• 1:48:24
  Granby. I don't Shakespeare.
• 1:48:27
  I don't go there anymore. I haven't gone in a long time.
• 1:48:29
  I thought you were. Doing an open mic night.
• 1:48:31
  I listened to a podcast. You were talking, sorry, so
• 1:48:34
  sorry. I listened to a podcast like
• 1:48:35
  last week where you were talking with another lad about doing an
• 1:48:38
  open mic night. Lots of changed.
• 1:48:40
  Oh, sorry, lots of things have changed.
• 1:48:43
  Let's just talk about. That sorry, Sorry, I didn't mean
• 1:48:47
  to. Sorry.
• 1:48:48
  No, that's fine. Yeah, the question was bound to
• 1:48:50
  come up. I, I, I used to do it with
• 1:48:52
  Kaisha and it was, it was a great experience.
• 1:48:58
  We, you know, I'm still very good friends of her to this day.
• 1:49:01
  We're actually working on something that I can't talk
• 1:49:04
  about. But yeah, it was, it was a good
• 1:49:08
  experience with her. But yeah, that place negative
• 1:49:11
  bad vibes. Unfortunately, lots of people
• 1:49:15
  have the same story. I've never actually talking
• 1:49:18
  spoken about it publicly here. I think one time I was asked in
• 1:49:23
  a live stream about it and I just told the truth.
• 1:49:28
  Yeah, it's a very toxic place and full story was like I
• 1:49:34
  stopped. I like I stopped hanging out
• 1:49:39
  there a long, long time before because it was just bad vibes,
• 1:49:43
  you know, like some of the people working there, the people
• 1:49:46
  running it and stuff just created a very like negative
• 1:49:49
  environment. So I just, he just didn't want
• 1:49:52
  to really want to go there and I just went there to do the open
• 1:49:56
  mics and work with Kaisha and Kaisha's like really good vibes.
• 1:50:00
  Like she was like a positive light in a negative situation
• 1:50:03
  kind of thing. But then you know, we she just
• 1:50:07
  wasn't able to facilitate it anymore in that sense.
• 1:50:12
  So I was like, alright, see ya. And then she carried on for a
• 1:50:17
  little bit and then she ended it.
• 1:50:20
  And I think they still do it with like other people now.
• 1:50:23
  I don't know that bar. They barred me from there and
• 1:50:28
  all their associated businesses because I asked for a free drink
• 1:50:32
  on an open mic and they couldn't.
• 1:50:36
  Like it was really weird. Like they changed their policy.
• 1:50:40
  It used to be that you could just have like any drink within
• 1:50:43
  reason. And then like I asked politely
• 1:50:45
  because they had like this is the thing.
• 1:50:47
  They have like crazy turnover. They like fire people left right
• 1:50:50
  and said like every week it's new bar stuff.
• 1:50:52
  They must have gone through like 8090 people in like 3 years.
• 1:50:56
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:50:58
  If you ask around, particularly in the open mic circuit, about
• 1:51:02
  people that have played there, people that weren't there,
• 1:51:04
  whatever, people will have all the positive things to say about
• 1:51:08
  Kaisha, but the place, not so much.
• 1:51:11
  There's people that refuse to go there.
• 1:51:12
  I don't hate the place, I don't really care to be honest.
• 1:51:15
  But let it be known that I got barred from there by the family
• 1:51:22
  of the people that work there because they said I was rude to
• 1:51:27
  bar staff and like, all I did was ask, OK, so I can't have
• 1:51:33
  this, can't have this. What can I have?
• 1:51:36
  I literally just asked it like as a normal question.
• 1:51:40
  And then when they basically like the the person in question
• 1:51:45
  who barred me like was just kind of aggressive towards me and
• 1:51:47
  they were always aggressive towards me.
• 1:51:50
  Maybe they don't see it that way, I don't know.
• 1:51:53
  But given that I was just a guy who occasionally like went there
• 1:51:58
  and like did this open mic for a while, like I didn't really even
• 1:52:01
  know this person. And when they barred me, they
• 1:52:04
  said the reason was because of that incident.
• 1:52:09
  And it's like you bar people for like, swearing at your staff or
• 1:52:13
  being aggressive or smashing windows or causing a
• 1:52:16
  disturbance. You don't bar them because
• 1:52:19
  because they asked for a free drink and you didn't like that.
• 1:52:21
  And then she said that apparently, what was it?
• 1:52:26
  She said that she knows what I say behind her back or
• 1:52:29
  something. And I was like, I don't know
• 1:52:31
  you. Like I know of you.
• 1:52:34
  I know like who you are kind of, but we had like maybe like less
• 1:52:38
  than three conversations ever. And it was like to do with the
• 1:52:42
  open mic stuff. Like, you know, I didn't know
• 1:52:45
  her as a person. I still to this day don't have
• 1:52:48
  any ill will. Like I don't know you.
• 1:52:50
  So I was like, I remember when it happened, like I happened to
• 1:52:53
  go. Last year was like one of the
• 1:52:55
  worst years of my life. And it's apparently continuing
• 1:52:59
  this year. So yeah, no, I'm.
• 1:53:02
  Sure, things will get. Things will get better.
• 1:53:05
  Yeah, I hope so, so you can. So it happened like when I got
• 1:53:08
  barred, it was like a really shit time and I just, I just had
• 1:53:12
  to laugh. I was like, oh, of course this
• 1:53:14
  happened. And for like a stupid reason.
• 1:53:17
  There's what? Like there's.
• 1:53:18
  What? Maybe you don't want to give
• 1:53:19
  those people your money anywhere then for drinks.
• 1:53:22
  This is the thing I I stopped going there a long time ago
• 1:53:25
  because it just wasn't cool anymore and it was bad vibes.
• 1:53:28
  And like everyone that used to drink their drinks around the
• 1:53:31
  corner at the Salisbury. Shout out to the Salisbury.
• 1:53:34
  We love the Salisbury. Yeah, I've been to Salisbury for
• 1:53:36
  years, I mean. Salisbury never treat anyone
• 1:53:39
  like that like ever. I've I've never had one bad
• 1:53:42
  experience in the Salisbury pub ever.
• 1:53:45
  But I've had no yes in Grand Central like 1,000,000 bad
• 1:53:48
  experiences. Used to go there, people lock
• 1:53:50
  world sometimes or after gigs. Yeah, there's there's millions
• 1:53:53
  of places to drink that you know, are cool alternative
• 1:53:56
  places. Salisbury Rebellion is a is a
• 1:54:00
  really great venue and Kebar that put some really good bands
• 1:54:04
  and music and it's right around the corner.
• 1:54:07
  Yes, I saw the Nirvana tribute band.
• 1:54:09
  If if they play again, go and see them because just to hear
• 1:54:12
  those songs mega loud was it's just amazing, you know,
• 1:54:17
  Absolutely. I think they were from Norwich.
• 1:54:18
  I thought, yeah, I think they were came from Norwich, although
• 1:54:20
  I was under the impression it'd come from Chicago.
• 1:54:22
  So either I'm Mongo or this or the person I spoke to that's
• 1:54:24
  wrong. But whichever this.
• 1:54:26
  I saw a really good live band there called Blythe.
• 1:54:30
  The drummer works at Salisbury. Actually, funnily enough, Blythe
• 1:54:33
  and Blythe, they're really, really good.
• 1:54:36
  I've seen them twice now, they're fantastic.
• 1:54:38
  But first time I saw him was at Rebellion and I know there's a
• 1:54:42
  really good sound system at Rebellion and just some really
• 1:54:45
  good bands on. Yeah, me Fence band Barbarian
• 1:54:48
  Hermit played, although they're not playing anymore.
• 1:54:51
  They had a farewell gig. But yeah, that was good.
• 1:54:55
  I don't mark you Ramones playing on Thursday, which I'm
• 1:54:58
  interested in. You know, the one of the
• 1:54:59
  original Ramones is playing drums there and other people are
• 1:55:03
  doing the song, so it would be fun or I haven't decided.
• 1:55:06
  I'm going to go yet to actually see those songs played like Doo
• 1:55:08
  Doo Doo Doo. Next one Doo Doo 1234 and then
• 1:55:12
  you know that that's on Thursday may or may not go, but it sounds
• 1:55:18
  it sounds fun. Yeah.
• 1:55:20
  Well, yeah, we've moved venues at the open mic once anywhere
• 1:55:27
  but yeah, but dulcimer is a good place and that's where we filmed
• 1:55:30
  the some. Yeah, it's cool.
• 1:55:31
  And dulcimers and it's. Dulcimer in Chalton for anyone
• 1:55:35
  who doesn't know. It's a great bar place, great
• 1:55:37
  venue. Good place and thank you for
• 1:55:41
  thanks for that. And yeah, well, so you just say
• 1:55:48
  you're doing some more recording this year, you some more music
• 1:55:52
  recording and things. Yeah, so this year I'm currently
• 1:55:56
  working on getting sort of EP singles out, and I'm also laying
• 1:56:04
  down the foundations for my next album.
• 1:56:08
  I've got it all kind of laid out now.
• 1:56:10
  I've got the songs, I just need to get into a studio and get it
• 1:56:15
  done. So I'll probably record that
• 1:56:17
  maybe in summer or something like that.
• 1:56:20
  And I'm aiming for a 2027 release.
• 1:56:24
  But you know, again, we'll, we'll see what happens.
• 1:56:26
  But I do have music already recorded for this year and I'm
• 1:56:30
  just kind of planning on like when and how it will be released
• 1:56:33
  and stuff like that. I might also record some more
• 1:56:37
  songs this year. Just extra stuff.
• 1:56:40
  It's just like any time I can get in the studio, really.
• 1:56:42
  Is is is just I love, I love it. I love writing and releasing
• 1:56:47
  music. Same with film, same as that
• 1:56:49
  thing, just as much as I can get.
• 1:56:52
  We're we're doing some all the practicing on tomorrow and then
• 1:56:56
  because then I'm going to me and my friend, just like the beats
• 1:57:01
  and the synthesizers and the boxes and things.
• 1:57:04
  Then we're going to perform the song that then the people were
• 1:57:07
  watching in dulcimer. We're going to do that next next
• 1:57:10
  open might night on the 27th, Tuesday the 27th and we we call
• 1:57:15
  ourselves mythical brewery. We're not quite sure why.
• 1:57:18
  Austin as you drop the early just a mythical brew or rocking.
• 1:57:22
  Well, you can find us on Spotify is Rock'n'roll Richard because
• 1:57:26
  people just call me Rock'n'roll Richard because I always used to
• 1:57:28
  be like wear another jacket. And if I was at a dance club or
• 1:57:31
  a rave or something like what's what called Richard or well,
• 1:57:33
  people just started calling me an art school Rock'n'roll
• 1:57:35
  Richard. So various people started
• 1:57:37
  calling me because I always used to wear a black leather jacket.
• 1:57:39
  At one time I was also on Band Camp, which is a great place to
• 1:57:44
  put music and find alternative musicians or things or Band
• 1:57:48
  Rock'n'roll Richard on Band Camp or Mythical Brewery.
• 1:57:52
  You can Google and find it there.
• 1:57:54
  So that's the good ways to support artists without labels.
• 1:58:00
  Yeah, there's. I think I've got 77 songs on
• 1:58:03
  Band Camp or 77 including some of the jazzy or the jams or
• 1:58:07
  electronic jams and things. There's some there going back a
• 1:58:13
  long time, really. But yeah, our different genres
• 1:58:17
  from folky Blues to noisy guitars and synthesizers and
• 1:58:23
  grunge and Brit pop and all sorts of different things.
• 1:58:29
  So there's some ways to find out some, some of them be on the
• 1:58:32
  soundtrack and there's some, there's some albums on there
• 1:58:34
  that are literally just sound like soundscape.
• 1:58:36
  You know, the instrumental albums, there's two or three.
• 1:58:39
  So if anybody's looking for film music, you know, looking, there
• 1:58:42
  might be some. I know some of the people have
• 1:58:44
  used the odd track in films before, but yeah so yeah, fake
• 1:58:49
  news movie as well on Instagram like and subscribe.
• 1:58:55
  I saw you were having a joke on one of the podcasts about making
• 1:58:57
  sure people said to do the like and subscribe bits at the end,
• 1:59:00
  so I. Just want to make sure.
• 1:59:01
  I say that. So you're talking to the the
• 1:59:04
  American lad about this story writing, storytelling.
• 1:59:07
  So that was the. Last, I'm always bad for it
• 1:59:09
  because I get lost in the conversation and just focus on
• 1:59:12
  the content. And I know you're supposed to
• 1:59:13
  always remind people, but I always kind of assume that
• 1:59:16
  people, if they're really interested, they will they'll
• 1:59:18
  they'll wanna hear more, surely. But yeah, please.
• 1:59:20
  Yeah, yeah. And.
• 1:59:21
  Subscribe follow us on Spotify, check out my Patreon, check out
• 1:59:27
  all of Rich's work you'd go do the things links are in the bio.
• 1:59:30
  I've made it so easy to find me online.
• 1:59:34
  There's no excuses so there you go.
• 1:59:36
  Is it very easy to find everything on on Rich as well
• 1:59:39
  online so? There Yeah well hopefully I mean
• 1:59:42
  some of the names aren't exactly the same but yeah hopefully,
• 1:59:44
  hopefully people are so yeah definitely on TikTok I'll try
• 1:59:47
  and I'll get a fake news movie won't bother them real life.
• 1:59:51
  I think that's a good. It's been a pleasure having you
• 1:59:53
  on the show. Thank you so much for being on
• 1:59:56
  the show. Thank you.
• 1:59:57
  Thanks for having me. No worries, I wish.
• 1:59:59
  You. It's been a it's been a
• 2:00:00
  pleasure. Yeah.
• 2:00:01
  Really good way to start a Sunday.
• 2:00:04
  Yeah. Awesome.
• 2:00:05
  Dillage. Yeah.
• 2:00:06
  Glad to hear it and to all the listeners of Christian Reed
• 2:00:09
  Podcast, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
• 2:00:12
  Make sure to check out Rich's work and my own as well.
• 2:00:15
  And as always, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next
• 2:00:18
  one.