Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Jade Warshaw - Debt Elimination Expert | The Hidden Force Behind Your Finances

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Jade Warshaw - Debt Elimination Expert | The Hidden Force Behind Your Finances · Success Story with Scott Clary

0:00
I think people get so focused on the numbers when that really is one third of the equation.
0:05
If you really want to make progress with your money, you have to consider the numbers in the math.
0:08
You have to consider your behavior and your emotions and a lot of folks forget about that one.
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She once carried nearly half a million dollars in debt.
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Credit cards, student loans, the whole trap.
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But Jade Warshaw didn't let those numbers define her future.
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She and her husband clawed their way out through side hustles, grit, and unwavering belief.
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Early on, when I became a young adult, that's when we're starting to make choices for ourselves financially.
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The first poor choice I made was student loans.
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So for me, everything was I want to present.
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I have to present the best way I possibly can and I don't care.
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I will go into debt to get it.
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I started seeing the effects of childhood.
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On my personal life, we have to be aware of that.
0:44
Why do I care about that particular thing?
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Today, she's a debt elimination expert, co-host of the Ramsey Show,
0:50
and the best-selling author guiding thousands to financial peace.
0:53
She shows how money isn't the enemy.
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The mindset is, and when you change that, everything changes.
0:58
When somebody feels shame, the problem is no longer the problem.
1:02
They become the problem.
1:03
Change requires change.
1:04
For most of us, we want to stay in our comfort zone.
1:07
Most of what you're looking for is outside of your comfort zone.
1:10
You are going to feel discomfort.
1:12
You are going to feel emotions, but just don't let them stop you
1:15
from getting to the thing that you've said you want to accomplish.
1:25
Jade, most people think money is a math problem.
1:31
And you're saying that's exactly why they stayed broke.
1:33
Can you explain?
1:34
Yeah, I think people get so focused on the numbers.
1:37
When that really is one third of the equation,
1:40
if you really want to make progress with your money,
1:43
you have to consider the numbers in the math.
1:44
You have to consider your behavior, which we all know.
1:47
But the one that everybody leaves out is now you also have to factor
1:51
in your emotions.
1:52
And a lot of folks forget about that one, Scott.
1:55
Why do people, I mean, I guess money is inherently emotional.
1:59
But we get so emotional about money.
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Why do we forget how important it is to understand our emotions
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when it comes to getting out of debt, saving money,
2:08
making money, because we know it's emotional.
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We get emotional about it.
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We get emotional about financial decisions,
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about what job to take, about where to spend.
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But then we almost, like, it will fully ignore the emotions
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when it comes to the plan to save money to get out of debt
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to pay off the credit card.
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Why are we ignorant there?
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Well, I think a lot of it is how we're receiving information.
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If you read a book about money,
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it's going to be numbers and math and tools
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and step-by-step plans, keep your investments over here
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and keep your savings in a high yield.
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And you should be saving 15%.
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It's all numbers and it's very pragmatic.
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And then you will hear people say,
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well, here's some behaviors that you should be doing.
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And so they'll say things like automation is the king
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or you should be paying off all your consumer debt
3:03
before you start investing, right?
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All these different behaviors that you're given.
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But truly, no one is talking about it.
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And here's what you should do if you feel fear.
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Who has heard that?
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And here's what you should do
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if when you get ready to invest your money,
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you feel guilt rise up.
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No one is talking about that, Scott.
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Let's be honest.
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And so because no one's talking about it,
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because it's not mainstream,
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I think we do, we don't even really notice
3:29
that our emotions are affecting us
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and they're kind of just this program
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that's running in the background.
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I mean, how often do you just flip your computer open
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and the screen that you were working on last
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is just sitting there, right, like on your desktop?
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And so you just work.
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You just get to work.
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Forget all the other windows that are open in the background
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that are affecting you.
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And then it's the same way with our emotions.
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Those screens are open in the background
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and they are affecting us.
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We do feel them.
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It is adding to our stress load.
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It's adding to our mental load.
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It's affecting how we're doing everything.
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And what you just need to do sometimes
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is just close the main money screen
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and look at all the other screens that are open.
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So okay, why is it that whenever my spouse
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brings up our savings,
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I start getting like feeling like this.
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My armpit starts sweating.
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Why is it that when I heard that guy on the radio
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tell me I should consider selling my car
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like every fear I've ever had activates
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and anxiety goes to level 10, right?
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Why is it that the idea of saving up for a house?
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If I hear somebody like you or me on a podcast,
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somebody says, talks about saving a house
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and how it's still possible, I get so mad.
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Like I get just so angry that I could just cuss that person out.
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And maybe I do.
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Maybe I go and leave a negative comment on social media.
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So all those things, I think they're going on
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and we're just thinking, oh, this is normal.
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I'm just being a human being.
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But the truth is it's affecting the choices
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that we make every day with our money.
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When did you, like looking back with your story,
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I know that your parents were very hard workers.
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So again, this is something you've probably heard before,
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but hard work doesn't always equate
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to an excessive amount of money in wealth.
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Like your parents were hard workers,
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but they were paycheck to paycheck.
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And money felt like a strain when you were growing up.
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This is correct, right?
5:19
Absolutely.
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You had to build a healthier relationship with money,
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but this is sort of fast forward.
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You've done that.
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When in your story, did you realize that you had
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a healthier, unhealthy emotional attachment to money
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that was causing you to maybe do the wrong things
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or take the wrong actions?
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Or even like what I just described,
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did you have a moment like that in your life?
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Well, you know, early on when I became a young adult,
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you know, college is when most of us kind of strike out.
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And that's when we're starting to make choices
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for ourselves financially.
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Obviously the first poor choice I made was student loans.
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Even though I had full-ride scholarship, Scott,
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I let a financial aid officer talk me
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into taking out student loans strictly for lifestyle.
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Like literally she said, hey, you're gonna,
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you're gonna go to the football games, right?
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You're gonna want to go out to eat after, you know,
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the games and you're gonna want new outfits
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and you're gonna need groceries and gas in the car.
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Like you should take these loans and I did.
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So that was probably like the first bad decision financially
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that I felt myself making.
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Because I remember sitting in the office going,
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this doesn't seem like a great idea,
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but at the same point, like it can offer me a convenience.
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And I think that's what we all struggle with.
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Like I know this is kind of bad,
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but the convenience is there and it feels like an easy way
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to get the thing that I need.
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And so I remember kind of wrestling
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with that feeling initially.
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And then several years later getting married,
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I got married one week after graduation.
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And I kind of started feeling the effect of,
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okay, it's not just my dead anymore.
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Now it's my student loans and my credit cards
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and my car payment plus my husbands.
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And so starting to feel that and I started
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understanding that my lifestyle choices were playing into this.
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And I actually made a social post about this the other day.
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You know, for me, kind of like what you mentioned,
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Scott growing up, yeah, my parents did fine,
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but we never had the best outfits or the new shoes.
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You know, I wore the same dress to church every Sunday,
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that kind of thing.
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And you know, if I was going to get made fun of something,
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it was my appearance.
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It was, oh, well, she wears the same jeans
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or she wears the same sweater.
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She wears the same dress to church every single Sunday, right?
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And so when I got older, for me,
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it was a no-brainer.
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It was like, I never want to be judged like that again.
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I never want to be made fun of like that again.
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And so for me, everything was, I want to present.
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I have to present the best way I possibly can
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and I don't care.
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I will go into debt to get it.
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I will put it on my express credit card.
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And you know, max that thing out
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to make sure that I'm always showing up
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and I'm the best dressed person in the room
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and I'm the best looking, you know,
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my nails are done, my hair is done, my makeup is on.
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Like all of that, that was something
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that when I got into college,
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I started seeing the effects of childhood
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on my personal life as a young adult.
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And so we have to be aware of that.
8:08
We have to look back and go,
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why do I spend like this?
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Why do I care about that particular thing?
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You take on this debt.
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You get married pretty quickly.
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So life comes out you fast.
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What is sort of the situation that you're in
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right away, like sort of post-college?
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You're in I think $460,000 worth of debt pretty quickly, right?
8:28
After your loans and I'm assuming your husband's?
8:31
Yeah, you know, a lot of that was accumulated
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over time with interest.
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So, you know, as we all know,
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you kind of have that six month grace period
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where your loans aren't due initially.
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And then when they hit, it's like,
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oh god, like I'm not ready.
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And most of us do what we hit the deferment button, right?
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We hit the forbearance button.
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And a lot of times we don't realize
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that while that's going on,
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interest is accruing in the background.
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And so we had,
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we essentially used up every bit of forbearance
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and every bit of deferment that you could use up.
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And because of that,
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the amount of interest that ensued was ridiculous.
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And so looking back, it's like, oh man,
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we probably could have saved ourselves $60,000 of debt
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just by figuring out a way to make the payments right away.
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But we didn't, we didn't know any better.
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And most people don't.
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If you have an option to not pay,
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I mean, think about what happened on the pandemic.
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People were given 0% interest,
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but because there was an option to not pay,
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most people did not take advantage of like,
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what they were given in that moment, right?
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And so yeah, again,
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that's just a financial literacy thing that we just didn't know.
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But I do want to go back to what you're talking about,
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Scott, about just what we see on social media
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in the comparison that's there.
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And just like this feeling of, okay,
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should I be having that life?
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Because I know for me,
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looking up and being in $460,000 of debt
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in my early 20s, right?
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That's the time that everybody is getting into their career.
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You know, 20s going into 30s is a time
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everybody's getting married,
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they're having babies, they're buying houses,
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like their life is popping off.
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And if you're a person who feels stunted by debt,
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then yeah, you're looking around thinking,
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I'm way behind, like I should be here by now,
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whatever here is.
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And I do, that I think that's one of the emotions
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that people fear, feel is they feel angry
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because they're left behind or they feel pity
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because they feel like they should have been
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someplace else by now.
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And yeah, that does affect how we spend
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because there's a point that goes,
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well, I'm working hard too.
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I'm waking up and I'm going to my job every day too.
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I deserve exactly what they have, right?
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We look at our neighbors and we see
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that they're moving into a new house.
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We look at, you know, ballbat work
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and he pulls up in a new bronco
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and we feel like we should have that too.
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And it's frustrating looking and wondering
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how were they able to make that down payment
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in today's world and I'm not able to make it.
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And again, that's the comparison
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and that's that underlying envy,
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which again is an emotion,
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that underlying anger that we feel.
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And it's so easy to just pass that off as,
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oh, you know, it's just something that happened,
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it's just something I'm feeling
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and not realize that it's affecting the way
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that you're spending because you could eat,
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I mean, let's go back to the pandemic.
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Remember that thing that popped off the revenge spending?
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It was like everybody had been in their house,
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cooped up in a mask, sheltering in place.
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And then finally, we were like,
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enough of this business.
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I don't care what it costs.
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I'm putting a pool in the backyard, right?
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It's like, I've been through enough.
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And so I do think that that does affect us
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and we have to, here's the takeaway.
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Like if there's a learning from that,
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if I could make people understand Scott,
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that life is not a race.
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It's not a competition.
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Because if you think about it,
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if you are in a real competition,
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there are measures and rules in place
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to make it a level playing field, right?
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Everybody starts at the same starting line.
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Everybody has access to what they need to run the race.
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Like nobody can take enhancements or supplements,
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you know, things that can make them perform better.
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And then everybody goes off at the same gun
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and everybody can run to the same finish line.
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That's not life.
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That is not life.
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Life is not fair.
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The playing field is not even.
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The track is not the same.
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Some people have to run up very steep mountains
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while other people get to kind of coast on flat land.
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Like that is the truth.
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So if you're a person who has to run up a very steep mountain
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and you're comparing yourself to somebody
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who gets to run on a flat surface
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and really, really cushy, nice shoes,
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yeah, you're gonna feel like you're falling short
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every single time.
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So you just have to remember your race is your race.
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It is your gun, your finish line, nobody else's.
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How do you not let that $460,000
12:52
overwhelm you to the point
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where you do take smart financial decisions
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and you're not just like, well, the debt's already there.
13:02
Of course, I want to pay it off, but like,
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you know what?
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I can't even, I can't even imagine.
13:08
I can't even like fathom having to work
13:10
for the next 10 years just to pay off debt.
13:12
I think you paid it off in like seven and a half
13:13
if I'm not mistaken.
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But what's like the healing of that relationship
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with money that lets you move forward
13:20
and take smart action, even when you were in like a really,
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really, you know, half a million dollars
13:24
is not an easy place to come out of?
13:26
Yeah, well, I would say that the healing, it's not,
13:29
it's not like, let me go get healed
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and then I'll go do this thing.
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It's more so as I'm taking responsibility for my life
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and as I'm cleaning up my mess
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and as I'm being an autonomous human being
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and not waiting for someone to come save it me
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or do it for me during that process is when I'm becoming
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a holer person, a person who forgives myself
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and it's not so much of saying, hey, don't be emotional,
14:00
take the emotions out, get rid of those.
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It's more about being able to act in the midst of them
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because so much of it is a recognition
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of being able to say, oh, I know why,
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I know why that made me angry
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or I know why I spent that money or I know,
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just knowing why like awareness is half of the battle
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to be able to say, okay, here, the truth about me,
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like I can say now, the truth about me
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is I was a person who struggled with guilt,
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I was a person who struggled heavily with fear,
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I was a person and fear of others judgment.
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Like I can say that, I know that, but for some of us,
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we don't even know what it is.
14:38
We're just like, oh, I don't wanna do that.
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I don't like that, that makes me feel uncomfortable.
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It's more just a comfort thing
14:43
and we just boiled it down to I'm either comfortable
14:45
with this or I'm uncomfortable with this
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versus saying, why am I uncomfortable?
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What is the emotion?
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What is the connection?
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What is the tie?
14:53
Because if I know that, then I can say,
14:55
it's kind of like if you know I live in a house with stairs
15:00
and my kids notoriously leave things on the stairs
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and I could literally fall down the stairs
15:06
and break my neck.
15:06
And so a lot of times after I've tucked them in for the night,
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I'm taking a mental note of, hey,
15:11
I know that these books are on the stairs,
15:13
I know that these micro machine cars are on the stairs
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and because of that, I can walk around them
15:20
and navigate to where I need to go in spite of that, right?
15:23
As opposed to acting like I don't know what's on the stairs,
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I step on one of the little micro machine cars
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that my son has and I fall down the stairs
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and I'm wondering what happened, right?
15:36
That is the same thing with our emotions around money.
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When we don't know they're there,
15:40
we trip up over them, we fall over things
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and we don't know why.
15:45
We're like, oh my gosh, and everything is a surprise.
15:47
Oh my gosh, I can't believe I overspent.
15:49
Oh my gosh, I can't believe I spent $3,000 on that vacation.
15:52
Oh my gosh, I can't believe that salesman
15:54
talked me into buying solar panels, right?
15:56
Everything is a, oh my gosh, I'm shocked.
15:58
I can't believe this happened.
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Versus, oh, I know that I self-medicate by spending.
16:05
Oh, I know that the reason that when the holidays come,
16:08
I go crazy because when I was a kid,
16:11
we never got Christmas gifts
16:12
and I got made fun of in second grade, right?
16:14
Knowing that is so, so, so, so important
16:17
because then we can't anticipate and say, okay,
16:18
the holidays are coming.
16:19
This is the time of year that notoriously I do XYZ
16:22
this year's going to be different
16:23
because I can audit that, right?
16:25
So that is it.
16:27
No, I was gonna say so it is a little bit of like
16:30
subconscious self-sabotage.
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When you don't pay attention to the emotions
16:33
that you have and you aren't aware of them,
16:35
you don't do like a little bit of not,
16:37
not, against your point, you're not doing inner work
16:39
to heal and then tackle the problem.
16:41
Like you're in this constant state of self-awareness
16:43
and inner work and always healing and awareness.
16:48
And when you operate from that perspective,
16:49
which is just I think a good way to go through life
16:51
to be quite honest with everything.
16:53
But when you operate from that perspective
16:55
and you are aware of the things that you believe
16:58
about money and the emotions that you tie to money,
17:00
then you just default to a smarter decision.
17:02
More often than not.
17:04
More often than not, that's right.
17:06
And I think that's part of the work
17:08
and the other part just to answer your question
17:11
more clearly, when you do have,
17:13
and I realized that $460,000 of debt is not the norm.
17:17
For some people it is, but there's plenty of people
17:19
listening who have $20,000 of debt or $100,000 of debt.
17:23
And at the end of the day, the same idea has to be
17:27
in your mind, which is this idea
17:28
that's got that the time is going to pass anyway.
17:32
God willing, you're going to wake up five years from now
17:35
and have a life where you'll wake up 10 years from now
17:39
and you'll still be in this life.
17:40
And you have to decide, right?
17:42
There is that point where you say,
17:44
okay, I'm going to start to do a behavior.
17:46
Whether it's losing weight, whether it's starting
17:48
to lift weights, whether it's, I don't eat sugar anymore.
17:52
Whatever it is, in this case,
17:53
we're talking about maybe paying off debt.
17:56
You have to say, like in five years from now,
17:58
there's three choices and there are only three choices.
18:01
You're only going to be, you could be the same.
18:04
Like, I'm exactly where I am today, five years later,
18:07
which is unlikely, you usually would be worse or better.
18:10
And those are the other two options.
18:11
You could be worse, right?
18:13
The person who has $100,000 in debt and makes $120
18:16
could say, you know what?
18:17
I'm not really going to do anything.
18:18
Things feel pretty comfortable.
18:20
And you don't know what the future holds.
18:23
You could step off the curb and break your leg
18:25
and now you're on, you know, disability for a while.
18:28
Disability is only paying out 40% of what you used to make.
18:31
And so now you're leaning on credit cards to fill the gap.
18:33
And before you know it, that $100,000 of debt turns into 150,
18:37
turns into 200.
18:38
And now you're thinking about bankruptcy, right?
18:39
A lot can happen in five years if you don't make this choice.
18:43
And then of course, the third option is today,
18:45
you listen to this conversation and you go,
18:48
you know what, I could start making some changes and you do.
18:52
And now because of that five, 10 years later,
18:54
you're in the best position you've ever been in.
18:56
You hardly even recognize that previous you
18:59
that used to be so emotional, that used to make bad choices
19:02
that didn't trust themselves, all of that.
19:04
So understanding that the time will pass
19:07
and we have real choices to make today.
19:10
And just to be clear, not choosing is also a choice.
19:14
Quick question, what's your go to
19:16
when you got 10 minutes before a meeting or a workout?
19:19
For me, it just used to be whatever I could grab,
19:21
which usually meant skipping meals entirely
19:23
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21:58
You went through like Dave Ramsey's baby steps.
22:03
He's been teaching this for over 30 years
22:05
and not mistaken.
22:05
So you went through this and it worked for you.
22:09
But everything that you brought up in your book,
22:13
this is about what the steps don't address.
22:16
These are the things that maybe baby steps
22:19
don't really speak about as much.
22:21
So we sort of touched on it obviously,
22:24
the emotional side of money, but let's go into it.
22:27
So what does baby steps really not,
22:30
really not, I don't know, not do a good job is unfair,
22:35
but what does baby steps really not highlight
22:38
that you really thought was a big, important piece
22:40
of this sort of money story?
22:43
I mean, it really, you just have to remember,
22:46
it's a plan written on paper, you know,
22:49
and you and I were kind of talking about this offline
22:52
before we started, but everybody is not
22:55
in the same situation.
22:56
And so one person can hear advice and go,
22:59
yeah, great, I'll do it.
23:01
And another person can hear advice and go,
23:03
you've got to be kidding.
23:04
You are so freaking out of touch.
23:06
What is, you know, did you get dropped on your head
23:08
as a baby, right?
23:09
And so that's how the baby steps are.
23:12
So, you know, respectfully, it's a wonderful plan.
23:14
It's helped millions of people, including myself,
23:17
but let's take, let's take baby step number one for instance.
23:20
So baby step number one is you save a thousand dollars
23:25
as quickly as possible.
23:26
And that's how it's written on paper, baby step one,
23:28
save a thousand dollars as a quick emergency fund.
23:30
Well, there's a lot of nuance behind that.
23:33
Number one, it's like, wait a minute.
23:34
Somebody could say, well, I already have $30,000 saved Jade.
23:38
And I'm like, okay, but what you don't know
23:40
is the next step is coming where you put all of that
23:42
on your debt except a thousand dollars.
23:44
So that person is going, you are psychotic.
23:49
It took me years to save this money.
23:52
I grew up in a home where there was never money saved.
23:54
Do you know what it feels like to come home
23:56
and the electricity has turned off?
23:58
You're taking away my comfort.
23:59
I vowed that that would never happen to me again.
24:02
Right, all those things are working into it.
24:04
Then you've got the person on the other end of the spectrum
24:06
who goes, Jade, a thousand dollars,
24:09
do you understand that I make $15 an hour?
24:12
Do you understand that I'm a single mom
24:14
with three kids at home?
24:15
I've never even had $200 saved.
24:18
And you're telling me to save a thousand dollars.
24:21
I don't know anyone who has that much money in the bank.
24:24
This feels impossible to me, right?
24:26
So there's two ends of the spectrum of people
24:29
dealing with this on an emotional level,
24:31
on a behavioral level.
24:34
But the words just say save, save a thousand dollars, right?
24:38
And so that's the part that I'm talking about
24:41
is addressing that area, that gray area where people live.
24:47
That's the part where people live, right?
24:50
No, I know.
24:50
So if somebody wants to sort of go on this journey,
24:56
there has to be a soft skill that they have to learn, right?
24:59
There has to be some sort of,
25:01
there has to be some sort of soft skill or tool,
25:03
an emotional tool, a mindset tool,
25:05
a mental model tool, they have to adopt.
25:07
There's probably several.
25:09
But if you look at, I mean,
25:11
think about the things that you've learned.
25:13
What would be the most useful mindset tool,
25:15
whatever that is when it comes to,
25:17
when it comes to like getting out of debt successfully?
25:20
Because I know that Ramsey speaks a lot about
25:22
willpower and discipline.
25:25
Good to a degree, but to your point,
25:29
that's not, that's, that's speaking to one very specific
25:33
kind of person that fits this cookie cutter formula
25:36
very, very well.
25:37
Yeah, yeah.
25:38
Unlimited amount of edge cases that don't fit that.
25:41
So perfectly.
25:42
So what is this mental model that you really have to learn
25:44
and adopt and internalize so that you can actually go
25:47
on this journey?
25:47
Is there one?
25:48
Is there one for someone that only makes $15 an hour
25:53
and is it different than somebody who has $30,000 saved?
25:58
Like what's, or is there one universal mindset shift?
26:01
So I think it depends on the, the underlying emotion
26:05
that's at play.
26:06
And so that's why I go over so many of them in the book.
26:10
I find, I find that probably the biggest thing
26:14
for most people is some sort of fear.
26:16
It's a fear blocker.
26:17
And so on the book, I go through the different types of fear,
26:20
fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of failure,
26:23
fear of judgment, all the different ones.
26:25
And I'll give you kind of a internal framework
26:30
that's helpful.
26:30
And then I'll give you an external one to try
26:33
to something that's a little bit more practical.
26:35
Because some people like to live up here in woo-woo land
26:38
and other of us are like, no, tell me something
26:40
I can do with my hands today, right?
26:42
So I'll give you both when it comes to fear.
26:46
For me, one of the biggest things
26:47
is if I'm feeling something, first understanding,
26:50
hey, this is the root of this is some kind of fear.
26:53
Then if I can say, okay, fear can be rational
26:56
or it can be irrational.
26:58
Like, that's true.
27:00
So let me figure out is this a rational fear
27:03
or is this an irrational fear?
27:04
That's thing number one.
27:07
For instance, people say all the time,
27:08
I'll tell them, I'll say, hey,
27:11
you need to pay off all your consumer debt before you start,
27:14
no, I'll say, hey, if you want to pay off your consumer debt,
27:17
you need to start side hustling, right?
27:19
Let's say that's the advice to which they might respond
27:22
with, well, I'm afraid if I side hustle,
27:24
I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna ruin everything with my kids.
27:28
Well, what does that mean?
27:29
I'm gonna ruin everything with my kids.
27:30
Okay, clearly that's a fear.
27:32
But it's so vague that part of me,
27:35
usually the irrational fears are the vague ones.
27:38
The ones that go, well, if I do that,
27:40
everything's gonna, you know,
27:41
I'm gonna mess up my job
27:43
where it's gonna cause problems with my spouse
27:44
or it's a very vague thing.
27:46
Well, what do you mean cause problems?
27:48
What do you mean mess it up with your kids, right?
27:50
Whereas the things that are more rational
27:52
tend to be very clear.
27:54
They tend to be things like, well,
27:56
Jade, I'm afraid that if I start side hustling,
27:58
the time that I have to side hustle is Friday nights,
28:01
but Friday nights are my daughter's basketball games
28:03
and I really don't wanna miss my daughter's basketball games
28:05
because, you know, my husband and I are going through a divorce
28:07
and he's not able to make it anyway, right?
28:09
Now there's detail, now I'm understanding,
28:12
so now we can actually solve the problem
28:13
and say, well, instead of side hustling on Friday night,
28:15
do you think, you know, maybe Sunday afternoon could work, right?
28:18
We can find solutions.
28:19
So that would be thing one is if you can just start to do that
28:24
and then in the book I can walk you through the rest of that,
28:27
that is so eye opening for so many people
28:30
because you don't realize it's again,
28:32
it's just playing in the background,
28:34
it's just the way you do life.
28:35
You've never stopped to dial it out like that.
28:39
Well, I guess yeah, so the thing is with most fears
28:43
until you get super specific,
28:46
you probably see this a lot when people call in.
28:48
They probably just have like the worst case scenario
28:51
that they can't even articulate.
28:52
They just have this like, oh my goodness,
28:55
like to your side hustle point like,
28:57
oh my god, I'm going to start a side hustle
28:58
and then I'm not going to spend time with my kids
29:00
and then my kids are going to hate me
29:02
and then my family's going to break apart
29:03
and then I'm going to divorce and like,
29:05
they just think of this like ridiculous end result
29:08
that's like never going to happen.
29:10
But, but they don't really,
29:12
they don't really map it out step by step
29:15
so then it's just like an overwhelming fear.
29:17
That stops them from really taking any kind of action at all.
29:19
That's right. When really you can look at something
29:21
because one of the biggest fears I get
29:23
is the folks who have savings
29:25
and I'm saying, hey, take the majority of that savings
29:27
and pay off your debt.
29:28
Well, they're thinking, well, what if,
29:30
what if the worst happens?
29:31
What if I lose my job?
29:32
What if I do this?
29:33
And that's fine.
29:33
Like you should be thinking like that.
29:35
You should never just take someone's advice and go,
29:37
okay, and just do it, right?
29:39
And but then I run it out for them.
29:41
I go, well, let's play this out.
29:42
Here's the amount of debt you had.
29:44
Here's the amount of savings you had.
29:45
Let's pretend you just keep the savings
29:46
like you want to do.
29:47
And the same, the same scenario happens.
29:50
You lose your job.
29:52
XYZ happens.
29:53
You'll actually end up with less money faster
29:56
because you have so many debt payments.
29:58
It's going to take way more money to operate your house.
30:00
And once I can run it out with them,
30:02
then they go, oh, okay.
30:05
And then if they're still afraid,
30:07
then it's like, okay, now we can take it a level deeper.
30:09
So we've figured out like the mathematical side,
30:12
what's the other part of your fear, right?
30:15
And now that freezes up to go even deeper
30:17
to really get to the root of it.
30:18
When people call in, obviously, there's a lot of fear.
30:22
Probably a lot of fear that is not even justified
30:24
this irrational fear.
30:28
What else, what else, what are the other emotions
30:30
that people tie to money?
30:31
Or what are the other main things
30:33
that like almost sabotage the success that they could have?
30:40
You know, there's a lot of anger out there
30:44
because there's so many external forces
30:46
that are affecting us, that we have nothing to do with.
30:51
My colleague, Dr. John Deloney, he says,
30:54
he has a phrase, he says, not by my hand, but in my lap.
30:57
And that is the most frustratingly angry thing
31:01
that can happen.
31:01
When you're like, hey, I was over here doing my thing
31:04
and I feel like I was doing the best I can.
31:07
And then some external thing happens.
31:09
And it is just really wrecking my plan here, right?
31:13
Like, you're going along, you're working, you're saving,
31:17
you're avoiding debt for the most part.
31:19
And then, you know, the real estate market
31:22
just doubles itself overnight seemingly.
31:26
And I mean, I saw, I mean, my very own sister,
31:29
I saw this happen.
31:29
She'd been saving, saving, saving.
31:31
She was so excited.
31:32
And then COVID happened.
31:33
And you know, everybody kind of like took a step back for a moment.
31:36
And then it was like the down payment
31:38
that would have once got her a beautiful $400, $450,000 house
31:43
was suddenly not enough to get her that at all.
31:46
And that is, I mean, you want to,
31:49
you want to take a Louisville slugger, right?
31:51
To just both headlights.
31:53
Like, you want to go crazy on that.
31:55
And that's the part that I get when people call in.
31:59
It's just this, they're just so disenchanted
32:01
with what's happened with our economy
32:04
and with the cost of living.
32:06
And we're in an affordability crisis.
32:09
And I recognize that.
32:10
And I understand that inflation.
32:12
And it's so expensive to get groceries,
32:15
to get health care, all of these things.
32:18
And the average American is like,
32:20
Hey, I didn't do this.
32:22
I, this was not my fault.
32:25
And it's not your fault.
32:27
But you're here dealing with it.
32:28
It's in your lap.
32:29
And so a lot of what I, the calls I get now are
32:34
the underlying emotion is just kind of an anger.
32:37
It's an impatience.
32:38
It's a frustration with the world today
32:42
that has been, it's something that's been done to us, right?
32:47
And so the hard part is getting folks to realize, okay,
32:50
how do we readjust our expectations?
32:53
How do we not fall into this eye-deserved mentality?
32:55
Because anger at the core,
32:58
anger wants justice, right?
33:00
Think about anything you've ever been mad about.
33:02
Whether it's something you were mad at your spouse,
33:04
you were mad at the person for cutting you off in traffic.
33:07
You want justice.
33:09
You were done wrong.
33:10
And somebody needs to make it right.
33:12
That's anger.
33:13
And so I try to refuel that into,
33:16
instead of you just being mad and cussing out,
33:18
you know, the person on the other end of the capital one call,
33:21
instead of you being angry and giving the finger to the person
33:24
who cuts you off, you know, in line,
33:26
instead of you making a really, really passive
33:28
aggressive comment on social media,
33:30
how can you get the justice that you want for your anger?
33:34
How can we get it?
33:35
And so if we can put that motivation behind it
33:38
and a meaningful motivation,
33:39
not just you shaking your fist at somebody,
33:42
that's how you get on the other side of anger
33:44
is you finding that justice.
33:46
So is it you paying off the credit card?
33:48
Is it you paying off the student loan?
33:50
Even if it takes 10 years,
33:51
is it you figuring out a way to save for that down payment?
33:55
That's you getting justice.
33:56
Because the government is not going to get it for you, right?
33:59
They're not going to come.
34:00
They might send a few stimulus checks here and there,
34:02
but at the end of the day,
34:03
they're not going to go, oh my gosh, we're so sorry
34:05
that you didn't get your house.
34:07
They're not saying that.
34:08
They're going, you know,
34:10
shoot, they were just shut down here for the longest.
34:12
So they don't care.
34:14
They don't care.
34:15
And math doesn't care about your emotions.
34:18
Math doesn't care that it's going to take you 10 years to save up.
34:22
And you can be mad at the numbers all day,
34:24
but math doesn't care.
34:26
So what are you going to do to get your justice
34:28
to call that anger inside of you?
34:31
That's what I'm talking about in the book.
34:32
And I'll show you how to do that.
34:34
That's, I fully agree.
34:36
I think that's one of the hardest mindset shifts
34:38
that people have to go through.
34:39
Like the world doesn't care, math doesn't care.
34:43
It sucks.
34:45
It's life figured out.
34:47
Now what, yeah, now what, right?
34:49
And I think that I think that that is one of the most, again,
34:53
whether or not it's saving 10 grand,
34:56
saving 100 grand, starting a business, paying off your debt,
35:00
it's the mindset shift of, okay, the world is fair.
35:05
It dealt me a shitty hand.
35:06
Life is tough.
35:07
I'm going to figure it out anyways.
35:09
And it's, it's that switch.
35:11
And if you adopt the figure it out anyways,
35:15
or take the action anyways, mindset,
35:17
again, it could be 10 years,
35:19
it could be 15 years.
35:20
It took you seven and a half,
35:21
which is not a lot.
35:22
That's a significant amount of time for most people.
35:25
But in the grand scheme of things,
35:26
it's not like that's the other thing.
35:29
It feels like a long time in the moment.
35:32
It took my husband and I,
35:33
10 years to save up and be able to buy a house,
35:37
which is why I can, I feel like I can talk about this
35:39
from that perspective.
35:41
And in the moment, yeah, 10 years feels like,
35:43
oh, like the worst, terrible.
35:46
But now, you know, I'm in my 40s
35:48
and that was such a long time ago, not that long ago,
35:51
but it was long enough ago that I go,
35:53
oh, yeah, in the grand scheme of things, 10 years is nothing.
35:56
I'm so glad I started when I started
35:57
because the time's going to pass anyway.
36:00
If I'm not mistaken, money,
36:03
not in fidelity, not, I mean, anything else,
36:06
it's like money is one of the causes,
36:09
the main causes of divorce and of arguments
36:11
and of fights and relationships.
36:13
So I need to know how you survived with Sam
36:20
because you got married one week after graduation.
36:23
And you were in a massive amount of debt.
36:26
And I think that that amount of debt and just being young
36:30
and the stress of life coming at you,
36:32
I'm sure it was difficult, but you're still together
36:36
and you figured it out and you navigated through it.
36:39
And I think that like everybody could learn a thing or two
36:43
because I don't think that many relations,
36:44
relationships would survive something like that.
36:47
So you're married young, you have $4,000 to $2,000 in debt.
36:51
How do you not let that come between you?
36:53
Like what's the strategy to, I don't know,
36:57
navigate that together, not let, you know,
36:59
the anger and the stress impact how you communicate
37:04
with the person because obviously when you're in that kind of debt
37:07
and things don't go right, the chance of you like,
37:10
you know, like popping off on that person are pretty damn high.
37:13
How do you, how do you, how do you get through this?
37:16
Well, first of all, you do, you do pop off from time to time.
37:22
I will never sit here and tell you that that was an easy process
37:25
and that there were not like arguments for the record books.
37:30
Okay, like my husband and I, we, it was not easy.
37:35
Like I, it was not easy.
37:37
There's no part around that, um, counseling.
37:41
You need it.
37:42
I like your shirt too.
37:43
Oh, yes, yeah, because there's underlying things,
37:49
you know, I'm talking about from an individual perspective,
37:51
but my husband had his underlying things.
37:54
So he needed to go, I need to go and then we needed to go together.
37:58
A, that's the thing number one.
38:00
Thing number two, this is a controversial topic here,
38:02
but I'm a proponent of combining finances with your spouse.
38:06
I think that being one on that helps you go further faster, right?
38:11
Having a teammate that you can depend on, which a lot of you,
38:14
and as soon as I said it, I could hear the comments,
38:17
well, I can't depend on my teammate.
38:18
Well, my husband, it must, it must be nice to have a teammate
38:22
that you can depend on, right?
38:23
I can hear all the comments.
38:25
Again, that's where counseling comes into play to make sure
38:27
that you, you are showing up for your spouse
38:29
and your spouse can show up for you the way they need to.
38:32
Again, not saying that this is perfect,
38:33
but having that full transparency of we have one account,
38:37
we have one checking account.
38:39
Both of our checks go in there.
38:41
We make a budget together of what we're going to spend
38:43
and what's going to go towards the debt.
38:45
We're including each other.
38:46
Everybody is zoned in.
38:48
Both people are zoned in on the goal, right?
38:51
That is very, very important.
38:53
And for my husband and I, I think that was the catalyst
38:56
to actually being able to do this.
38:57
We were both aligned on, we need to pay this off.
39:01
And here's the method that we need to work
39:04
in order to pay it off.
39:05
Now, of course, that's when the personalities show up,
39:08
which is I'm more of a spender.
39:10
He's more of a saver.
39:11
I'm far more emotional.
39:12
He's way more like even keel.
39:14
Those were, we were navigating that more so
39:17
than we were navigating.
39:19
Do we want to pay off the debt or not?
39:20
That wasn't the question.
39:22
So those two things, combining money,
39:25
making sure everybody's getting the mental help and support
39:27
that they need.
39:29
And then, beyond that, I would just say that
39:33
making sure, and this again,
39:35
is kind of part of the therapy thing,
39:36
but forgiving, being so quick to forgive
39:42
and have goodwill to each other is so.
39:45
I mean, this is, this is not in the book.
39:47
This is just me, a person who's been married 15 years, 16 years.
39:51
Goodwill.
39:52
And I understand this may not be the case for every couple.
39:55
And we can talk about couples who are having other levels
39:57
of dysfunction later if you want.
39:59
But if you can look at your spouse and go,
40:01
you know, I love them.
40:02
I think that their intentions are good,
40:04
even though they don't always show it the best of ways.
40:07
Remembering that this person,
40:10
their intention is not to jack you.
40:12
Like, their intention is not bad.
40:14
It's just, we're all human
40:17
and we're all fighting the best way we know
40:19
how with what's inside of us.
40:23
And that comes out in different ways.
40:25
Just remembering goodwill.
40:26
Like, this person has goodwill towards me
40:28
goes such a long way.
40:29
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42:59
So you mentioned there's other kinds of
43:02
dysfunction in relationships.
43:03
And I would ask like that, that is a beautiful idea.
43:08
That's not how all relationships work out.
43:10
Sometimes people don't have the best intentions.
43:12
And I'm sure that you hear a lot about a couple
43:14
or a partner or a spouse.
43:15
It doesn't have the best intentions with money or whatnot.
43:18
And maybe we can talk a little bit about how to recognize that.
43:23
Because I think that's also very important.
43:24
Because I do believe that if you're going to build wealth,
43:27
get out of debt, just be a highly ambitious person
43:31
or even not even be a highly ambitious person
43:32
from like an entrepreneur perspective.
43:34
But just like want to do well in your career
43:36
and want to show up every single day in the best capacity.
43:39
Like you have to have a partner.
43:40
If you have a partner who is on the same way of length as you.
43:44
Because I've interviewed a lot of different experts on this show.
43:50
And some of them are sort of more child psychologist
43:53
or at least like psychologists to speak about the trauma
43:55
that you receive as a child.
43:56
And one of them in particular was going into
43:59
how the home is so so important for children.
44:04
Because if the child does not have like a peaceful home,
44:08
first of all that that trauma subconsciously implants
44:11
into your brain and then that carries forward in your life.
44:14
But you just like you can't if the home is not peaceful,
44:18
then basically that kid's going to be stressed and anxious
44:21
and act out.
44:22
And every part of their life is going to start to fall apart
44:24
to a degree if like the parents are
44:26
or I was fighting and always arguing.
44:27
But I would say that the home is just as important for an adult.
44:32
Even though they think that they can leave the home at home
44:36
and then go do their thing or go go go work
44:39
or go adopt a certain investing principle
44:42
or go pay off their debt or go allocate their money.
44:45
Accordingly, if your home is not peaceful
44:48
and not even peaceful in the sense of like
44:50
you're not throwing dishes at each other's head.
44:53
Like I mean like peaceful in the sense
44:54
as if from the from the perspective of
44:56
you are aligned in what you want to accomplish.
44:58
If you're always arguing and fighting
45:00
even if it's not anger, but it's just misalignment,
45:04
I feel like that's like a quick way to sabotage
45:07
anything you're trying to do.
45:08
Because you just like it just feels like there's always friction, right?
45:12
It just feels like you're not like moving in the same direction.
45:14
You don't have the shared goals.
45:16
Sorry, I'm sure you have a comment on that.
45:18
But I just I'm curious.
45:20
What do you do if somebody's not on the same page as you?
45:23
That's so important.
45:25
Yeah, friction is going to cause you to go slower.
45:27
It's going to cause things to take a lot longer
45:29
which means frustration is going to set in.
45:31
And once you're frustrated, that's tough, right?
45:35
Yeah, so there's a couple of things there.
45:37
Number one, I hear you know, our show
45:40
reaches 18 million folks a week, right?
45:42
The Ramsey Show and People Calling
45:44
with all sorts of different relational issues.
45:46
The one one of the big ones is really being able to identify
45:51
if you are in a relationship with somebody
45:55
who is really committing forms of domestic abuse with money, right?
45:59
We hear that sadly a lot where one spouse
46:03
has really cut off the other spouse.
46:07
Their name is not on the mortgage.
46:10
They have no access to the accounts.
46:12
It's like one spouse is like, yeah,
46:14
I know we have retirement, but you know,
46:17
and I'm not saying this to be against men or women,
46:20
I'm just saying typically it's a woman
46:23
who doesn't have the past codes.
46:24
And typically it's the woman who knows it's there
46:27
but doesn't know the exact amounts.
46:30
Or it's a, I'm given an allowance and that's it.
46:33
That's all I'm really allowed to spend.
46:35
Like those are such red flags.
46:38
Then there's the calls where it's just,
46:41
you know, one spouse has been spending money secretively
46:45
and there's that financial infidelity,
46:47
whether it's a gambling, whether it's another form of addiction,
46:50
whether it's just a hobby that's gotten out of control
46:54
and somebody is just overly spending
46:57
hiding the purchases, hiding the debt.
47:00
That's a red flag as well.
47:03
So there's a lot of ways that we want to identify that.
47:06
And I mean, I'm not really an acronym person
47:09
but it's helpful.
47:09
I always tell people to keep their money safe.
47:11
It's S-A-F-E.
47:13
And I just say, hey, you need to seek counsel.
47:16
The S is for seek counsel.
47:17
You need to seek counsel if you're experiencing
47:19
any form of addiction.
47:21
Like I talked about that could be gambling,
47:23
that could be overspending, that could be drugs,
47:25
that could be alcohol.
47:27
And the other A is for any sort of addiction
47:29
or any sort of abuse, right?
47:31
If you're in a situation where someone is abusing you
47:34
and it's not always like somebody's, you know,
47:37
hitting you or something like that.
47:39
It's, yeah, they're showing domestic abuse
47:42
in that they are controlling me.
47:44
They're controlling the money.
47:45
They are controlling how much I work, how much I don't work.
47:48
The check comes, I don't see it.
47:50
I don't know what the accounts are.
47:51
My husband or my spouse or my wife gets very huffy
47:55
if I ask them for access, right?
47:58
Those are problems, those are red flags.
48:00
And so that's the A.
48:02
And the F is of course financial infidelity.
48:04
Financial infidelity is any form of spending
48:07
that's being hidden.
48:08
Even if it's not, you know,
48:10
thousands and thousands of dollars,
48:12
it's just this idea that I'm going to go over here to the side
48:14
because there's a lack of trust there.
48:17
If you're spending, if you're going to target,
48:19
I don't care if it's target and you're spending
48:21
and you're keeping it from your spouse for some reason
48:24
or your spouse is keeping it from you,
48:25
that is a red flag.
48:27
You need to seek some counsel on that
48:28
and find out what's behind that.
48:31
And then, you know, finally, the E is now,
48:33
now it's time, now that we've identified that,
48:34
let's evaluate, let's evaluate our options.
48:37
Is this somebody that you need to separate from temporarily,
48:41
like your space?
48:42
Is this a person that you have to separate your bank account
48:44
from temporarily?
48:46
And what are the measures that must be seen
48:48
in order to come back together eventually?
48:50
Because of course you want reconciliation at the end
48:52
if possible.
48:53
So that's how that works.
48:55
And I hate those calls and I hate those scenarios
48:58
for people because they're extremely difficult
49:00
and extremely emotional.
49:01
But that's the reality.
49:03
And it is important to point out that there's a difference
49:06
between somebody who maybe isn't on the same page
49:09
because you haven't been a good communicator
49:11
versus somebody who is actually taking advantage
49:14
or abusing or financial infidelity.
49:16
So I think it is important to understand that spectrum.
49:18
But I don't want to just, I feel like,
49:24
this is just my intuition.
49:25
I don't know because I thank God I've never been part
49:27
of a relationship like this.
49:28
But I feel like, I mean, you want to know,
49:31
you want to know, it's funny.
49:33
We share a bank account in credit card
49:35
and every time I spend on my credit card.
49:38
So Gina, my better half, she has notifications
49:40
on her phone and she sees the amics pop up on her phone
49:44
every time I spend and she's like,
49:46
and so we're super transparent with our finances
49:49
and our money and it's just easier because there's no friction.
49:53
There's just no friction in anything we do.
49:54
But I feel like it's difficult for people
49:59
who are in situations like this to understand,
50:03
are we just, are we just not on the same page
50:05
or is there actual financial infidelity
50:08
or financial abuse because these are not as easy
50:12
for the average person to pinpoint.
50:14
Like if somebody, if I'm married and I sleep
50:16
with someone else, I've cheated, right?
50:18
It's very easy.
50:19
It's like I, I get what that is.
50:21
If I'm married and God forbid someone,
50:24
or even not married dating doesn't really matter.
50:26
If I'm with somebody and somebody hits me or screams at me
50:30
or like I see it, I feel it, I hear it.
50:33
Like there's something physical, there's something that,
50:36
you know, I can say that was abuse
50:39
or that was, that was an affair.
50:42
With financial, it's not as angry and loud and aggressive.
50:48
It's just, it's almost like a little bit like narcissists,
50:52
manipulative, like is it, is it abuse?
50:56
Is it not, you know, husband says,
51:00
we should have separate accounts
51:02
and I don't see what he's spending,
51:04
but then he says like, if I worry too much,
51:06
he says I'm being overbearing
51:07
and is he gaslighting me or does,
51:10
or is that just his relationship with money?
51:13
So it's harder for a lot of people to identify.
51:16
Yeah, they can be.
51:18
Yeah.
51:18
I think you're right.
51:19
I think it is harder.
51:20
I think the first step is saying, could this be
51:27
and then also saying, hey, just because you have,
51:31
and I talk about this in a book in the book all the time,
51:34
a good reason should not become a bad excuse, right?
51:38
You could have good, you could have good reason
51:41
for a behavior, but if you can continue to do it
51:45
at your own detriment, it then becomes a bad excuse.
51:48
And that's, that's just a truth.
51:51
You could have a good reason for,
51:52
well, it was the way I was raised
51:55
because of my job or blah, blah, blah, blah.
51:57
But once you know that and you continue,
51:59
then it becomes a bad excuse.
52:02
My Angelou said, once we know better, we should do better.
52:05
And so that's really the core of that for me.
52:08
Even if you're dealing with a spouse,
52:10
maybe they are doing those things,
52:11
maybe they are locking you out,
52:12
maybe they are trying to control you.
52:13
You can say all day, why don't think he means it
52:16
or I don't think she means it, you know,
52:18
the way she was raised, but the behavior is still the behavior.
52:21
And if you've brought it to their attention
52:23
and you've said, hey, when you do this, I feel shut out.
52:26
Or this really, this is really making me feel unsafe.
52:29
Or this is really freaking me out.
52:31
I feel like we're married and I should be part of this
52:34
and they don't care.
52:35
It's not enough for them.
52:37
There's disregard for your feelings in this,
52:39
at the very least.
52:41
You need to go to therapy.
52:43
I know, I, that's another really good point.
52:49
So when if you were with somebody who's a good partner,
52:51
who you love, if something means enough to you,
52:54
it should mean something to them as well.
52:56
Yes, absolutely.
52:57
That's really what it is at the end of the day.
52:59
Absolutely.
53:00
Going through, going through getting out of debt with Sam,
53:05
you've given over a lot of sort of lessons
53:07
as to how to survive that kind of, you know,
53:11
that kind of stress on a relationship.
53:14
If you were going to give a couple
53:16
that's going through this together right now
53:18
and there's none of this, there's none of this abuse,
53:21
none of this bad stuff.
53:22
It's just a healthy money relationship.
53:24
You're all aligned on your goals.
53:26
But you find yourself like outside of going to therapy,
53:29
you find yourself snapping at each other all the time
53:30
just because there's so much stress in the household.
53:32
And if I'm not mistaken, you were sleeping
53:34
on an air mattress with your husband
53:36
and you had roommates at the time.
53:38
So you were like in this like pressure cooker environment,
53:40
like there couldn't have been more stress
53:42
on a like a early marriage, a young marriage
53:44
than what you were going through.
53:46
What would be your, like sort of last words of wisdom
53:48
to somebody who's going through this?
53:51
Just remembering that it's kind of like shame, right?
53:57
When somebody feels shame, they are no longer,
54:01
the problem is no longer the problem.
54:04
They become the problem.
54:06
They wear the problem as a hat or as a garment.
54:09
Instead of saying, oh, that business plan was a bad idea.
54:13
They go, oh my gosh, I'm so bad with money.
54:16
I don't know what I'm doing.
54:18
I'm the reason, right?
54:19
They become the identity of the problem.
54:22
And it's the same thing in marriage.
54:24
You have to be so clear on remembering
54:27
what the problem is over here.
54:29
And we're ganging up against the problem.
54:32
It's not my spouse who's the problem, right?
54:35
And that is the main thing to remember.
54:38
The debt is the problem.
54:40
The student loan is the issue.
54:42
The car payment is what's tripping us up.
54:45
The down payment is what we're trying to solve for.
54:48
It's so easy to forget and get mad at your spouse
54:51
like they're the problem.
54:53
And that's the number one thing
54:55
if you can remember, hey, we're on the same team.
54:57
We're both ganging up against whatever this issue is.
55:00
And yes, your spouse may have done something
55:02
that annoys you or bugs you.
55:04
It's like, hey, why are you stopped?
55:06
Why are you continuing to stop at the gas station
55:08
for mountain doing in corn nuts?
55:11
We said that we're trying to take the extra money
55:13
and pay off the debt.
55:14
Why are you still making this stuff, right?
55:17
In those conversations, just remembering,
55:19
how can I approach this in a way
55:22
that the problem is not my spouse.
55:25
The problem is what we're ganging up against.
55:27
So if that were the case, then I could say, hey,
55:30
I remember you and I were aligned on paying off the debt.
55:33
I just want to see if you're still in it.
55:36
And if they're like, yeah, why not?
55:37
Oh, I just, I noticed that you spent some money
55:39
that I thought that we were going to put on debt.
55:41
I just wanted to make sure that you and I
55:42
are still aligned on like, we're knocking out this debt.
55:45
So I just wanted to remind both of us,
55:47
let's just tighten up our spending a little bit, right?
55:49
That's a whole different conversation.
55:51
Then I can't believe you would go and spend $5.
55:55
I mean, you're so irresponsible.
55:58
I can't depend on you right now.
55:59
You're making them the problem.
56:01
Just always remember the problem is the problem's the debt.
56:03
The problem is, you know, whatever it is
56:05
that you're trying to tackle.
56:06
So that would be my piece of advice.
56:07
Tell the audience also where they can connect with you.
56:09
So where they can go for, you know, social,
56:13
where they can sort of listen to you on the Ramsey show.
56:15
So drop some socials.
56:16
And then also, if people could just take one lesson
56:19
or one idea away from this book, the most important lesson,
56:23
what would you want them to take away from it?
56:26
Yeah.
56:27
So if you're interested in what no one tells you about money,
56:29
of course, you can find it wherever you buy books.
56:32
Amazon's great RamseySolutions.com is great.
56:36
Barnes and Noble will have it.
56:37
So if you're interested in the book,
56:38
or if you just want to connect on social,
56:40
I'm on all the platforms, Jade Warsha,
56:43
but Instagram is really the one
56:44
where I'm interacting and talking the most.
56:46
So find me on Instagram, I would love that.
56:49
And I would say for the book, the number one thing
56:53
is just remember, awareness is half the battle.
56:56
Awareness is half the battle.
56:57
If you can be aware of your emotions,
56:59
if you can take a moment and just go,
57:01
why, what am I feeling right now?
57:04
That is going to help so much in you identifying.
57:08
And then just remember,
57:09
we talked about it earlier, but just remember,
57:10
whenever you're setting out to make change,
57:13
change requires change.
57:15
And just remember, for most of us,
57:17
we want to stay in our comfort zone.
57:19
And most of what you're looking for
57:21
is outside of your comfort zone.
57:23
So you are going to feel discomfort.
57:25
You are going to feel emotions that is totally normal,
57:28
but just don't let them stop you from getting to the thing
57:31
that you've said you want to accomplish.
57:33
Awareness is everything.
57:35
That's what I would leave you with.