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BPS 481: The Brutal Truth About Getting Your First Film Made with Greg Francis · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four eighty one.
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  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: All right, everyone, thanks an for joining me today on
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  Speaker 4: the show. Is writer director Greg Francis. Greg, how are you, sir?
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: I'm doing pretty good, Dave, thanks for having me. Oh,
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: thank you very much for coming on. You know, I
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: really appreciate it. You know, I heard your podcast, heard
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: your interview on another podcast, and I was like, Wow,
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: this guy has a fascinating story and I want to
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: talk to him as well. So Greg, just to sort off,
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: could you give us a little bit about your background?
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  Speaker 3: Sure, as far as film and stuff. Sure. I think
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  Speaker 3: probably like most kids my age, when the VCR came
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  Speaker 3: into play, we all became cinophiles. I liked movies all
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: time as a kid, and then I ended up moving
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: to Asia. My parents are actual missionaries, and so I
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: was living in Taiwan for junior high and high school,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: and one year for our tax rebate, we bought one
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: of the very first of VCRs. It was a giant,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: giant machine, and I just remember going down and I
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: couldn't read any Chinese, so all the videos would be there,
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  Speaker 3: and I would just say, well, give me a comedy,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: or give me a horror, give me drama or action,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: and then they would just give me a handful of
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: tapes and then just go back on movies all night.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: And that started in junior and continues to this day.
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  Speaker 3: I think, but never really thought that this is something
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: that I could do. It's just something that I loved.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I got into college and started
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: doing theater and making short films that I really got
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: excited about it. And then I thought, this is a
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  Speaker 3: it suld be to working, and it sure seems like fun.
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  Speaker 3: Let's see if we can make this go. And that's
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: sort of how it all started.
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  Speaker 4: So, now, when you made those short films, were they
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: were they college projects or were they just lists that
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: for fun?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, sort of, because it wasn't There wasn't any I
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: wasn't at a school that had any kind of film
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: program or anything like that. I think they had one
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: or two classes, but I was in the Chicago area
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: and they had a cable access stations, which I don't
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: even know if they exist anymore. But it was like,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: really it was kind of like Wayne's world where there
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: was little studios that if you went in and took
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: some training could use their equipment and make shows for
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: their TV for their TV station. And so I remember
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: using their equipment and being like, oh, we get this
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  Speaker 3: for free if we just went to so we started
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  Speaker 3: making it would somehow tie into a class project. But
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  Speaker 3: I remember making two or three thirty minute projects, and
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  Speaker 3: then I started making at the college I went to.
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  Speaker 3: Each class would make a film and have a big night,
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  Speaker 3: and so I did that for the last two years too.
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  Speaker 4: Oh cool. You know, I think there is still some
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  Speaker 4: kind of public access left. But I'm sorry, Yeah, is there?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: I think there is. Sorry if I interrupted you, Greg,
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  Speaker 4: I'm sorry about that. I thought. Uh, I think I
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  Speaker 4: think it was a little lag there. I apologize if
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: I interrupted you. But yeah, I think there's still slowly
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: a little public access programs here and there across the country.
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  Speaker 4: There's something in Philadelphia called Phillycam and Comcast actually has
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: the fund that fun this because it was a deal
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: that they should actually struck with a city and you
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: can actually go there and use gear and stuff like that.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: And this. I mean, it was a great idea. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: for people back in those days where equipment was just
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: cost prohibitive and getting your hands on anything to make
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: your own things was almost impossible. There's no you know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: DSLRs or anything like that. It was just so expensive
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: and film was beyond that. But even just getting big
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: video equipment was silly. I think there was. We had
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: cam quarters that had come out, but the quality is
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  Speaker 3: really bad. In fact, I remember doing my first shorts
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: where it is like the old days you would do
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: in in camera edits. You'd shoot and if you didn't
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: like to take, you'd rewind it and then do it again,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: and rewind it, then do it again.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: And yeah, it makes me sound really old, but we
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: were so excited just to be able to be like, oh,
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: we're kind of making a movie that sort of planet
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: to seed, you know.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I remember those this camp quarters too going up in
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: the nineties. Uh, because I was born in eighty four,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: but I remember my my parents they got us. Uh,
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: my parents got me a this like old style VHS
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: camera and I remember those huge ones where you would
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: put it on your shoulder. It was literally like twenty
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: pounds and you're just like, I need a tripod because
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: my shoulders breaking here. Uh, but you know, and there's
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: and yeah, and there's and then you would edit it
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: and you could, like, you know, if you got fancy,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: you could try to connect it to your TV through RCA,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: And you get to two of them and then try
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: and do tape the tape and double over like you
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: do with your mixtapes. It was pretty cool, yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, And uh, eventually I got a TV with a
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  Speaker 4: VCR built in and I connected another VCR VCR to
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: it so I could actually start, you know, copying like
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: stuff like I could make copies of stuff I did
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  Speaker 4: for people, or I could like edit this together, make
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  Speaker 4: best of and stuff like that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: It was pretty high ten for then, so you're like,
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: this is freaking awesome, you know.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And just to have access that was the
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: biggest thing. Don't come from a wealthy family or or
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: people that. I mean. I was a Midwest kid and
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: growing up overseas, I didn't have any connection to the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: industry or people in the industry and so getting your
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: hands on equipment for the first time was like so exciting,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: and being able to write stuff and then make it,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: it just was unprecedented except for doing theater. You know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: it felt like, oh, we're doing something important and being
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: able to do it for without having to pay was amazing.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's kind of like what Spike Lee
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: once said. He said the reason he went to film
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: school was just because they had all the tools, and
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: because somebody asked them if they would go to film
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  Speaker 4: school now, and he said, no, I wouldn't go because
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: you know, your phone is a camera now, so you could,
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: you know, and you know, cameras like you said, the
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: DSLR and the red and everything else. I mean, you
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: have these wonderful cameras now that you could, you know,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: somewhere more expense than I was. But you can still
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: rent some of these, you know, and you know you
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: can put together a pretty solid movie.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a completely different time now, you know,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: film school you can go back and forth all the time.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: And the horrible thing, of course with any school now
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: is it's just so ridiculously expensive. But one of the
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: great things that does come out of film school, more
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: than the equipment or anything else, is just meeting other
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  Speaker 3: people that want to do what you do and being
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: able to crew up and get people to work on
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: your projects and do it at that cost level, which
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: is hard to find other places unless there's good film
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: groups in your city or whatever. But film school does
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  Speaker 3: at least give you contact with other people that are
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: trying to do the same thing. Oh, very true, but
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  Speaker 3: it's said, man, it's so expensive, it's ridiculous.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I actually want to end up going
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: to school for business, and you know, when I was there,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: I actually was like, you know what, I really just
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: want to do film, and I ended up basically the
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: way I network is through Twitter. I mean that's you
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: know how I met you, and you know everything else
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: and you know, and you know, we can do things
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  Speaker 4: online now, like there's so many online film courses and
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: sites now. It's like I literally, Greg, I don't know
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: about you, but I get like an invite every week
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: to a new like oh, we have streaming video servers
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: and we have webinars and it's a it's amazing.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: It is amazing. In fact, I was scrolling through all
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: the people that you've interviewed. And I was like, Holy Macael,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: this guy's connected. You've gotten some amazing interviews with some
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: really good people. No idea why you to want me
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: on your show, but I was, I was really impressed
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: with all the people that you've you've had on your show.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you very much. I try my best. I
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: have a ton of other people too. I got like
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: a back order backlog of people now. But I really
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. But but Greg,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: you're awesome, and then you know, that's why I want
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: to have you on, you know, and I want to
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: talk about Poker Night too, But I just wanted real
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: quick to go back to your background. You know, you
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: got started in in the in the video world. You
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: know on your im T your first credit, we know
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: its Paleo World, and you know you had a couple
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: other things, you know, could you talk about how you
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: got started into into that specific industry.
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after award from our sponsor, and
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: now back to the show.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Sure, I got out of film school. I got married
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: like two weeks before I started film school, and I
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: went on our honeymoon to my grandparents' house because we
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: couldn't afford anything. I was twenty one and we came
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: back and went to film school for two years, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I made a movie about a thirty minute black and
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: white sort of film noir parody, and of course it
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen. It doesn't matter how many awards I won
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: at that point, so I ended up gripping for a
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: year and pa ing, and then I started art directing commercials,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: and about two years in a guy who worked at
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Family Channel saw my film and said, well, I got
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: this project I need over the weekend. I need you
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: to get this sitcom has one hundred episodes down to
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: like a fifteen minute sales tape for mipcom, which is
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: kind of like nap internationally it's a TV sales So
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: I did that and watched it was a sorry oppression,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: said it was a how should I say it? It was?
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: It was a tough job, and we put together a
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: good tape and it sold really well. And so then
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: like the next week he goes, all, right, now I've
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: got We're launching a game show channel, and I need
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter what the budget is. But it was kind
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: of like Princess Bride with the dread pirate. Roberts wh
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: would always say, you know, you have to do good
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: or I can't hire you anymore, and wasn't to put
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: pressure on me, but just to give you the reality
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: of if people don't like what you do, we can't
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: bring you back. And so I went from cutting something
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: to shooting a twenty minute piece on thirty five with
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: no budget, I mean, just whatever we wanted to come
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: up with, and that sort of started about I gave
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: that about almost a year of just doing these really
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: big projects like that and had a good run. And
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: during that time someone from Discovery had heard about me
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: and they brought me in and asked me if i'd
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: be interested in producing these series. And I was twenty
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: four and I was doing some you know, big producing
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: be a really good way to expand, and I was
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: fascinated by it. There were two science shows that was
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: still shot on film, it was all international. So I
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: jumped in and we did that for a year and
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: then I was you know, producing is a tough gig
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and I never wanted to be a producer. I was
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: always a director. So I would argue with the EP
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: all the time, well, really I want to be directing,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: But sometimes you get too valuable at one thing and
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: they don't want you to do something else. So finally,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: at the end of that year, I quit, and when
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: we finished the seasons and then they hired me back
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: as a director. I started. I sort of rode right
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: after that. About ninety six was the OJ Trial and
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: that was when the first crime shows went on Discovery
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: and our company did those. So it grew from about
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: nine people to about two hundred people, and we were
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: doing five six shows at a time and had a
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: big studio and just running running act here. But I
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: ride that horse for a long time. In fact, I'm
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: still doing crime shows. But it was fascinating and fun,
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: and I was traveling all over the country and meeting
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: with different cops and then coming back and getting actors
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: and redoing you know, the murders and the stories and
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: so it was a great education of you know, showing
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: up and having to do ten fifteen pages a day,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: or you know, running around just creating stuff as you went,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: and it was it was the best film school I
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: ever could have had, and I really learned a lot.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: So so when they were when you were producing, and
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: they and you mentioned that when you become so good
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: at something and don't want you to do something else.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: You know, Like, what were some of the challenges you
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: would face, you know, or some of the biggest challenges
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: you had to face as a producer.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Well, Gaul Hard, I mean and into something different, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: I'd produce big commercial things, or we had money Discovery
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: we were on more of a limited budget, and plus
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: it was international, so there was a lot of and
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: these were as close to pure documentary as everything that
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: I've done. So you know, we were working with Archaeology
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: magazine and I'd send a crew out into the field
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: and they might go over to Petra in Jordan, and
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I sent them over there because we think there's a
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: dig about one thing. And they get over there and
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: that story sucks and they change the story completely. But
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: they're gone for seven days at a place with note
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: this is before cell phones or pagers, and they're out
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: in the field and I don't know until the day
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: they come back to the airport and they call me
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: and say, oh, changed everything. It's a whole new story.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Everything you sent us over here to do is wrong.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: And so then you come back and have to put
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: that together. And so there was a lot of that,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: you know, and just trying to keep people safe. You know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: we were, we were crews in some hot spots, people
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: just flying everywhere, just trying to manage all that and
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: learn and then come back and put it together into
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: a story that makes sense. So it was a great
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: experience and a lot of learning on the fly. But
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, I wanted to There
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: were two or three shows that I took myself, you know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: going over to China and doing stuff there, and that's
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: more what I wanted. I wanted to be out in
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: the field. I didn't want to be sitting in the
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: office or sitting in that at sweet as much as
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: I wanted to be out doing it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: So as you went through the years of this, eventually
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: you know you decided you want to you wanted to
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: actually make feature films. Correct.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: I think the goal was always to make feature films.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: That was why I went this cool and that's what
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: you want to do. And you know, at that time,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: in the early nineties, it still seemed, you know, this
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: was the Spike Lee era, the Kevin Smith era. All
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: my heroes, Robert Rodriguez, these are guys that are out
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: doing it, like man, why right, project at the right.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: They were, you know, this town's tough, and so you
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: have to work your way up. And I think I was.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I was married and had kids coming by this point,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: and I was doing really well in TV where you
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: know I was. I was just working all the time,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: and so it was always a struggle with me, you know,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: do you keep riding this horse or do you quit
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: and leave and try and try and go out there
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: and do what you wanted to do. And that's finally,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: eventually where I got got to where I wrote Poker
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Night and started down that road.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: So when you wrote Poker Night, you know, could you
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: take us through the process of how you actually started
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: to write it? I mean, did you outline heavily or
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: did it or you know, did you do a lot
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: of treatments or did you just dive right in and
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: just sort of find your way out so to speak? Sorry, Greg,
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: you're there.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah I am. I'm kind of processing it. Sorry, laughing
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: at myself.
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think what really separates a lot of amateurs
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: from professionals, And certainly for me, I've written all my life,
• 17:42
  Speaker 7: but I'm a very undisciplined writer.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I love writing, I love reading. Well, let me rephrase it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: I love reading and I love stories, but you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: sitting down or really being disciplined every day, I'm not
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: great at I was doing so much time with homicide
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: detectives all over the country, interviewing him all day and
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: then going out with him at night and hearing all
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: these thirty pages of Poker Night. I just kicked out
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: in like a day, and that has sat there for
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: about four months, and I didn't know what to do
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: with it. I had a friend to come in and
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: I would tell him the story, and so Doug and
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I would talk about it. He's credited with story with
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: me on the film, and he helped me break it
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: and talk about different things. And then and then over
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: the next basically ten years, it was a lot of
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: rewrites and changes, and as things would switch, we would rewrite,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and it continued all the way up till when we
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: were on set finally ten years later.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: So when you were writing, did do you ever subscribe
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: to the eight sequence method or do you know or
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: you know anything like that, or do you just you
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: know set aside?
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: I think the only book that I had because I
• 19:05
  Speaker 8: took script writing in film school in grad school and
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: loved the class, loved the teacher and wrote a bunch,
• 19:13
  Speaker 8: But I think we had Sidfield's book and there really
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: it wasn't really.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: A cottage industry like it is today where there's all
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: these other things. You know, story didn't exist. Then none
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: of the other things existed, and I kind of was
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: just plotting in the dark. And then it became well,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: if I have three acts, I can have three different
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: stories at the table. And then he tries to escape
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: three times. And so that's kind of how I built
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: the structure of the film. And then we got to
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: the end and it sat there for another two three
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: months because I didn't know. I never had the ending
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and didn't know what it was or how to how
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: to pull it all back together. And then finally that came,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: and then it changed again once we got to product.
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: So it would be great to say that I was
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: smart and had it all plotted out and figured out.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And you know, you go back and forth too. If
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: you're write a lot. What's better to really know everything
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: that you're doing. It's certainly easier in one sense, and
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: it certainly makes it more achievable, but there's something nice
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: about being surprised by the characters and being inspired as
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: you go too. It's just it's a lot harder. It's
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: a lot harder.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I know what we have actually tried, like
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: boths myself and sometimes I'm writing and just you know,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: you sort of just get a starting point and you
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: have no plan where this is going, and you just
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: sort of say, hey, see where the character is going
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: to take me, and you know it is. You know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: sometimes you're like, oh, wow, that happened.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Holy crap.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: You know, I didn't I didn't see that one coming.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: But you know, once you can get into that flow,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: so to speak, you know, that's a sweet spot that
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: all these old writers you know, uh talk about. It's
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: you know, it's it's a it's the one thing you
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: wish you could turn on or off.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's so tough, you know, anyone
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that's a writer I have so much sympathy for because
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: it's it's a tough life and it's a very tricky thing.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: And to be disciplined and also to have something interesting
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: and keep people interested, it's hard. It's hard. I need
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I hope to keep getting a lot better at it.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I need to get a lot better at it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: Have have you read the book The War of Art?
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great book.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it's astounding. I always every writer, I
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: always who comes on, I always talk about that with them,
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: just to see if they've read that, because that is,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: in my opinion, you know, like the de facto. If
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: you're going to start like a novel or a screenplay,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: you should just sit down and read this first, and
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: you know this is what you're going to mean for.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: It's it's funny because you know, now, well, it's like
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: I said, it is such an industry, and I've read
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: I think I've read every book. I have this weird
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: thing I abscribed subscribe to that if I learned one
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: thing from a book, it's worthwhile now since I love reading.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: But it's also it's a great way to avoid writing.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Is I think I have every book on writing, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I'll sit and read that instead of writing. So it's tough,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: and I don't know that anymore that necessarily they help.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: One of the best things I ever heard from a
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: guy out here on screenwriting was is the only thing
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: that matters is if when I get to the bottom
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: of the page, do I want to read the next page?
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And everything else doesn't really matter. And I think that's
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: really the truth of what a good screenplay is.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: And that's very true, you know. So as you took
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: you know, Poker Night, and you have to finish screenplay,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: you know, what was your next step? And you're getting
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: it out there and and stuff's getting made.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: That's another great question, you know. It's one of those
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: that there were a few things before that that I
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: got really inspired by. Besides all of the great indie films,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: there was Wayne Wang did this movie called Smoke back
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: in the early nineties and it was about a cigar
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: shop in Brooklyn and had a lot of big names
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: in it. And while they were filming, they they were
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: enjoying themselves so much. They shot another film called Blue
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Blue in the Face, I think, and just kept bringing
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: people in and they improved a whole nother movie. And
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: I was like, man, people are just doing it, why
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: can't we do it? So we tried a few things,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: writing and putting things together to get to that point
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: where I was like, we could do something kind of cheap,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: but it never came together. Poker Night was the first thing,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I felt like, all right, you know, this is something
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: that has has a genre feel to it, and I
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: think we could get the money. And at that point,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: obviously Blockbuster was still huge, and you're like, at least
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: someone will pick it up at Bloeter. So I put
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: it together and I thought, the only thing that I
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: don't know is you know how to get the money.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And so I was talking with friends, and my sister
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: lived in a place where there were some people with money,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: and her husband owned a restaurant and he said, well,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: why don't you come out and I'll introduce you to
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: some people and I'll you know, you guys can eat
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: for free. And that's kind of how it started. I
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: would go in and just pitch these rich people, and
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: eventually we got about a million dollars and I thought
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: we were going to make the movie. So we packed
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: up and moved moved to that town. And then we
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: still had to get another million dollars. So that was
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: the problem. But I felt like, well, you've already got
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: a million, how hard can it be? And it came
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: together pretty fast, so but it proved to be harder
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: than I thought.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: So when you got that first million, you know with
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: the pitch, did you know, did the investors ask a
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: lot about like you know, ROI or did they do
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: they want to see like a physical packet, because I
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: mean at that point, you know, probably you know, digital
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: packets are big now, but I mean at that point,
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: you know, physical package is probably still in vogue. So
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: did they ask to see any of that?
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: We not really. We We had a pretty nice business plan,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: similar to what everyone else is going to put out,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: you know, you lay out here's some similar films. Here's
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: how they performed, A big statement upfront about risk and
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: how much money you need to have in the bank
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: if you even want to consider an investment like this,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: what the rate of return could be, how how profit
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: from film is divided, A lot of background on all
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: the people that were involved, and and then we did
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: have a DVD that had a little video pay and
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: had a little teaser on it and some more information.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: But truthfully, the people that I was talking to, I
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: don't think they cared one bit. Most of them were very,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: very wealthy. And because I went back to him and
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: tried to it once we had the million and I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: was hitting a couple of walls, I'm like, why don't
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: you guys just double your investment. And they were like, look,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: we never expected to see this money again, and we
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: like you, and we liked we wanted to invest in you,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: and so go out and get the rest and see
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: if you can make it. But it wasn't like they
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: were looking at this is boy, this will be a
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: great way to return the money. I think most of
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: you they were also just you know, part of it
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: is it's a sexy business, and I think they were
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: interested in that. And a lot of these guys were
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: venture capitalists themselves who started with nothing and had some
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: people bet on them and became incredibly wealthy. So I think,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: you know, it was like a long shot thing that
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: wasn't gonna hurt him too much. And they were amused
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: by me, truthfully. Uh.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I once read an article about from a filmmaker who
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: said there are other methods of roy and what he
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: meant was basically his he had one financier and that
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: was a billionaire's wife. And this wife just liked to
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: tell people that she was a movie producer, and whenever
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: he had a movie, you know, she would write a
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: check and here you go. And so when they when
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: they would go to like, you know, yacht parties or
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: whatever else. Hey, you know my wife. This is my
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: wife a film producer. So that's how they got our
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: that's her Roy Monny.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, people are are really funny and it's a
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: tough thing because anyone, as anyone in this business knows,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: it's it's a really tricky thing to return money on investment,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: especially now. I think it's harder than ever. You have
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: to be very creative about it, and I think they're
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: people that are coming up with some really interesting ways.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: But the business has changed so much, I think in
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the last three years. Even so, it it's a dicey thing,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: especially if you're trying to go it alone.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: M hm. So uh, you know, you know, just as
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: a food for thought, Greg, you know, I don't know
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: what your next project is. Not to jump too far
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: the conversation, but you know, have you ever thought about
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: crowdfunding for your next project?
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I have. I think that it's it's a great,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: great source. It's you know, getting I think, getting the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: people in the following I think now maybe with a
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: project behind me and people a little bit more aware,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: at least some fans of the project, I think that
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: that would be easier. At the time, I certainly didn't
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: think so, but now I think, you know, that's definitely
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: something to look at.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: So you know, so now that you know eventually you
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: did get the the two million so to make Poker Night,
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: you know, how did you go about, you know, building
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: a team from there? I mean, did you already have
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: producers on board or did you wait until you after
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: you got the money to start like crewing up with
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: like a director's cinematography and you know all the other
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: key roles.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Well, it was a long process from there, and all
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: those initial investors are not involved with the project as
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: it is now. There was a point where after we
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: had the money and I came out and met some
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: people out here that were very shady in LA and
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: still didn't have a good feel for it. There was
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: a producer that was a line producer at the time
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: who was just starting to make bigger movies and he
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: loved it, and very quickly he got the script to
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: he was shooting a film in Irelander Isle of Man
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: with James Franco.
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: And now back to the show.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: And Kevin Reynolds, who directed Water world called Tristan and
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: is old and the guy that was the the second
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: unit director swordsman on the film stunt coordinator, also did
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Star Wars and for whatever reason, he loved the script
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: and he got up to Sam Jackson and he got
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: it to Hayden Christensen and they both wanted to make
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: the movie, and all of a sudden it became a
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: big project and they didn't want me to direct, and
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I debated with him a long time and finally stepped
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: down and stayed on as a producer, and we got
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: picked up by three companies right away, and a lot
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: of a lot of fighting and a lot of phone calls.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: For about a year and a half, I was on
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: the phone every day with all these different people, and
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: it suddenly became something, and we finally ended up at
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Icon Film, Mel Gibson's company, and it was going to
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: be a ten million dollar film, and that was set
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: for August two thousand and six, and it was about
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: a year leading up to that of just trying to
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: get Sam and Hayden's schedules clear and getting everybody in
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: the right place. And at that point then they got
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: off a jumper with Doug Lyman, which was I think
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: hundred and ten million dollar film. They both were probably
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: making more than our budget, our whole budget, and they
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: left and so the after two years it sort of
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: fell apart. They gave me a couple of names that
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I could try and get to keep the project alive,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: but I was at a point where I needed to
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: make some money because it was a long road to
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: do that, and so I just dropped the project and
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: went and started directing skincare commercials in overseas and then
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: here in the States and did that for about four years.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: And during that time the project was optioned three or
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: four more times and set up at different places and
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: almost to go, and had lots of meetings as a writer,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: none as a director, and finally I just kind of
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: stopped giving the option. I didn't want people to take
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: it unless they would let me direct it, and so
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: that went on for another year or so, and then
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: finally the producer I had now came in and he
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: been bugging me over the years and knew of the
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: script from the first first Incarnation back in like two
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: thousand and four, and he's like, we're going to make
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: your movie this year. I was like, I don't believe you,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and then we went and did it. So it just
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: took a long time to get there. And as far
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: as putting the team together, there wasn't anybody left from
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: when I started, no one, and so it's all new.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I took two people. We shot in Canada and the
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: only people that came up with me was a young
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: lady who started as a PA for me and is
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: now a big commercial producer and just produced her first
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: film and the DP and I actually had a different
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: DP up until two weeks before the film, who I
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: shot a lot of commercials with and he was just
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: breaking into film. Well he wasn't just breaking, but he
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: had done a lot of small films and was getting
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: bigger films and did a really nice horror film that
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: year that was big and was ready to do it.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: And we pushed a week and he thought the film
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: wasn't going to go and he took a different job.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: So I had to find a new DP in a week,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: and so I found Brandon and Mandy did a great
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: job for me. We really clicked right away and it
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: worked out really well.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: So did you find that your experience as a producer,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: so when like a fire like that breaks out with it.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: You know, your GP, you know, has to leave a
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: week before that. You were able to find one so quickly.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Did you think your producer experience helped with that?
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean anyone who regardless of I guess where
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: you end up in these positions. You know, the reason
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I got that producing job in the first place was
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: because I was producing all the stuff I was directing.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: And then anything that I've done outside of Discovery, like
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I've done two series in China, a lot of commercials,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: all the skincare stuff for four years, I'm producing and
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: directing all of that. So it's not that I've ever
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: stepped away from it. And I think you also end
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: up in you want to control as much as possible
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: just so that you have the things that you need.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: And so none of those things stood in my way,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: I would say, in the sense of it. It bothers you,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: but you're just like, well, we've got to make this happen,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: and so you keep going because otherwise, man, you fall
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: apart because it everything burns to the ground pretty fast,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: and there's crisises every day. So you just get get
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: tough and keep pushing through and don't let it stop you.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and that's very true, Greg, because I you know,
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: there's you know, I've done stuff myself and you're like,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: you know, you always sort of end up, you know,
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: realizing those short films that you did or you know,
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: student films whatever that you know, those always end up
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: teaching you you have to have like a plan A
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: through Z because plan A is going to fall very
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: rarely do this plan A ever workout? And then you
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: got it, you know, and then going down the steps
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: now so we actually get something that actually ends up
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: like you know, like you with pokerne until it ends
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: up actually happening and everyone's on set and you're like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: all right, here we go, let's film this.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I used to tell people, you know, because forty seven.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: So I started when I was twenty twenty one, twenty two.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: You know, like in all those years, I feel like
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: I've failed so many times at so many things. And
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: the reason that you get I had better as you
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: get older is because you don't fail the same way.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: And so it's like I've seen all those problems happen
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: in twenty years, twenty five years, and I've found I
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: know I'm not going to have that same problem. I'm
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: going to have new problems, and I'm going to make
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: new mistakes, but I better not make the same ones
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: that I've made before, because it's the business is just
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: it costs too much money. So I think, you know,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: experience really does teach you, and those hard lessons that
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: you learn on all the hard projects only make you
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: stronger and better when you come to a new project.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very true, you know. Like something I've learned
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: is that over the years is that storyboarding is so key.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: I know some directors don't storyboard, but that's something that
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: I've learned that really helps not only you visualize the movie,
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: but so it helps everybody else as well.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I've heard that, I've heard rumors of that. It was
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: a great story about Matt Damon going to work with
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: the Coen Brothers on True Grit, and he said he
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: wanted to take the job. Because I forget who was
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: telling him. It might have been. I think it was
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Brad Pitt said, you know, the great thing with working
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: with the Coen Brothers is every day you get your sides,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: which is, you know, the piece of the scripture shooting
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: that day, and next to your sides is the storyboard
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: of every shot. They're going to do, so you know
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: exactly what you're doing in every single scene. And I
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: was like, wow, that's crazy. And I remember getting to
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: hear mm at Walsh talk when I was in Foam
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: school about Blood Simple and it was the Coen Brothers
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: first film, and he had a great story about he
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: had this ideal when he gets shot and falls in
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: the bathroom how he wanted to do it, and he
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: said the Coen Brothers kept showing him that the storyboards
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: and going no, but look, this is how you fall.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: And he goes, yeah, but I thought of him and
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: I said no, no, no, this is how you fall. And
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: so I always think of that because I love them.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: They're brilliant, but yeah, I don't know that my drawing
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: skills are good enough for storyboarding. And sometimes I'm also
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know. People are all funny, but you're like,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I want everybody to know because
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: it changes so fast and as soon as you put
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: it on paper, they're like, but this is what you're
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: supposed to do. And I think, doing so much TV
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: and so much so many things that change so quickly,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I end up being a lot more fluid on set
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: from what I plan.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: So that's a great story about em at Walsh, you know,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: Blood Simple. You know, I've watched that movie, you know,
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: a dozen times. You know, I think that's a very
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: good almost a film school in itself, because it's it's
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: it's very good and that you could tell they you know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: they didn't have a lot of money, but they used
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: the story to just you know, hey, look we don't
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: we can't blow up a car this and that. Because
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: I remember the interview they did for Raising Arizona. They
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: said they finally got to blow up a car, which
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: I always wanted to do, and they couldn't do that
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: in Blood Simple or or Crime Wave or second movie.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: I forget what it was, but you know it was.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: But as you get better, you know, like you said,
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: now only do you get paid better if I'm making
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: the same mistakes, but you get to blow up a car. Yeah,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: you have to dream bigger, you know, Greg, just to
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: you know, sort of take a step back. You know,
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: when you were talking about you know, in LA and
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: talking about producing and you know, going out and finding
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: some really shady people, is there any you know, just
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: sort of tips that you could parlay to people that
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: about you know what to look out for if they ever,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: you know, get someone trying to give them a you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: a deal, whether it's a distribution deal or you know,
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: an actual investment deal.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Boy, it's difficult because as they creative, you know, you're
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: willing in some ways to almost do anything to get
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: your movie made. And and so when people were offering
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: these things.
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after word from our sponsor, and
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: now back to the show.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: It takes a lot of discernment to know is this
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: a good offer, is this a bad offer? How do
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: I And truthfully, when you're starting out, you don't really
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: have a lot of choices. But I did feel, because
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I had raised that initial investment, that I was sort
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: of a caretaker of that and a lot of a
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: lot of the guys that wanted to invest or to
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: work with that money, I just didn't trust. Even having
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: the money that I raised, I didn't feel like you
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: could just tell. And then you know, then you sort
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: of learned, well, that's how they all are, necessarily, just
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: these guys. But and then you know, over the next
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: ten years, I go back and forth a lot. Well,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: you know, if I would have said yes, then at
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: least the movie's done, you know, or maybe it just
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: should never happen. And so it's a cautionary tale on
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: both sides because at a certain point you just want
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: to get it done regardless, but you also don't want
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: to have to go back to the people that believed
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: in you, entrusted in you, and say, these guys took
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: us off for a ride. I think once I finally
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: came to a producer who was putting up the money
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: and staying on board, it was a different situation. And
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: so it took it took ten years to get to
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: the right situation. I hope it won't be ten years
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: for the next one. But I would say, use your
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: use your judgment. And and then sometimes, you know, you
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: look at some of the great filmmakers, John Sales, James Cameron,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: they all, you know, these guys that started with Corman
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: and some of the other things. It wasn't ever the
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: best situation. Their first films are. You know, they show promise,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: but they're not great. Sometimes you just have to roll
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: the dice and and go for it and know that
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: it's it's not going to work always in your favor.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Paul Thomas Anderson was the same thing with Reicher with
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Hard eight and then and then you hope that you
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: had enough good will off that project to get another one.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: So it's it's it's very difficult. I wish that I
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: had better advice, but trust gut, trust your gut.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: Well no, I think that's great advice. But you know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: and you right, you sort of parlay then, you know,
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: one moving to the next. And uh, and I don't
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: think you would have to wait another ten years to
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: make something after Poker Nights because I think, you know, uh,
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: you know, you've got distribution on iTunes right now, you know,
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: the movies doing I see all the time people are
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: tweeting at you about the movie. You know, I really
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: think that, you know, And like we talked about earlier
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: with crowdfunding, I think, you know, when you do have
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: your next script, I think you can sort of expedite
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: the whole process.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Now, well you're moth to God's ears. I would I
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: would love to be able to get another shot at
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: the plate it. We've had a good reception. It's been
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: fun to see. You know. There's definitely a lot of
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: haters too, but uh, the people that are are looking
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: for something like it, I think like it so that
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: was that was why we tried to do it in
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: the first place, was just to come up with something
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: that's the same but different, in the same realm but different,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: and and have fun with it. And that's what we
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: tried to do. So I think it connects with certain
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: people and other people have no patience for it. So
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I understand that too.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: So, you know, you know, and speaking of you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: actually you know, making the films, you know, could you
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: take us back to how did you actually cast Ron
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: Perlman in Poker Nights? You know, you know, how did
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: you go about contacting him and eventually casting him in
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: the movie?
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I wish there were more romantic stories
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: about this kind of thing. But the casting process is
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: a very difficult thing. And I was, you know, coming
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: out of TV. It's different because people want to work
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: and I'm not working with high level actors on the
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: shows that I do. It's it's mostly new actors, so
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: it's very easy to get lots of auditions and go
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: through the auditions and make people audition again and find
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: the right person for the role. For this, we knew
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: we needed to get good actors, and we had a
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: casting director Chadwick Struck, who's really great and goes back
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: and forth between you know, some low budget stuff to
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: better budget stuff. He works a lot with Kevin Spacey's company,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: and he just is a really great guy. But any
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: of these movies are hard to get because there isn't
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of money and you're just sort of throwing
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: throwing it against the wall until you get somebody to
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: say yes. I think with Poker and I on the page,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: it could go either way. You don't know if it's
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: going to be, you know, a gory slasher film or
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: if it's going to be or played the more smart
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: parts of the script. So getting people to read it
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: and getting offers out that people were interested in it
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: took a while, I remember, and I was hitting every
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: character actor I could. I just had list of fifty
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: sixty names of the best in the business that I loved,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: and we just you know, couldn't get responses a lot
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: of time. And so you go through. You make an
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: offer and it's a timed offer usually, so it'll be
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: X amount of money against X number of days, and
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: we need you to respond by next week, and you never,
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: even though they're required by law to give them the offer.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: You never know if they do, you don't know what's
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: going on. And I was looking for older guys. So
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: some of these guys are like, I'd rather be out
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: in my boat fishing or whatever. So you never know
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: the truth of if they even read the script or
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: saw the script. And so we kept just making offer
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: after offer after offer, and we went back and forth too,
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: because you're like, well, do you get Jeter first, or
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: do you do you get the young guy first, or
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: do you get the old guys at the table, and
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: which is going to help the other. And I always
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: wanted to go for the older guys because those are
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: the guys that excite me anyway. But there was a
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: lot of thought that maybe we should get the lead first,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: because if we get the right lead, it'll help position
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: the film to the old guys. And eventually it didn't matter.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: It would be a lot of rejection. I want to say,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: it might have almost even been a month, and some
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: people would you know, it wasn't really a rejection. It
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: would be the offer runs out and you don't know
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: what's happening. But truthfully, we got one actor who said yes,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: and as soon as he said yes, we filled up
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: all the roles like super Fast. In fact, one of
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: the things that I would recommend, and I've heard other
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: people do, is that you can make a contingency offer
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: because a lot of a lot of these lower budget films,
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: you're you're doing Favored Nations. You know what that is, right, Yeah,
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: so everyone's getting kind of the similar offer. But I
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: did hear after that, you know, you can that there
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: is a thing called like first in bonus, because sometimes
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: it's just getting that name to make it a legitimate
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: prog project. So as soon as you have somebody that
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: means something, all of a sudden it means something, and
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: then everyone else is in as afraid. So maybe there's
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: a you know, five grand. I don't know, five grand
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: is ridiculous. I don't even know what the number would be.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: But there's a bonus for the guy that signs first,
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: because then everyone else came in. And literally, I think
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: once we had that first name, we had everybody within
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: two weeks. And Prolman was a guy that you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: I've loved forever. I've loved since Quest for Fire and
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: really wanted him in. And he's funny because we did
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: the Q and A out here at the premiere in
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: LA and I was telling this story and he was like, well,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: you know, because he wanted to play a certain role.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: And I had three old guys at the table, and
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: the guy that Proman plays I always imagined as like
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: a forty year old guy. I wanted one guy in
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: between our young guy and the old guys, and so
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: Prolman really wanted to play that heart and I kept going,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: he's better for the other part. I want him as
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: one of the older guys, so I can get a
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: younger guy, you know, like a these are you know,
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: like a Mark Ruffalo that's a dreamcast, or you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: even a John Cusack, some of these guys that are
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: really great that could sort of bridge that gap. And
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: the word kept coming back, Nope, this is the one
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: he wants to play. And when I told the story,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Ron was like, well, if I would have known you
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: felt that way, I never would have pushed for it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, it doesn't make any difference what
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: I thought, because Pearlman's great. And actually the producer said
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: to me, you really want to tell Ron Peerlman, though,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: is that what you want to do? You don't want
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: him in the project just because you think that this
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: role should be this way. It is a really dumb thing.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: So I was like, no, you're right, I'm an idiot
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: and one of many times and so I sort of
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: I don't even I didn't even rewrite it. We just
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: changed it and gave it to Ron and my gosh,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: he's he's the shining light in the film. He's amazing,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: and he knocked it out of the park. I think
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: he felt like, well, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: ever taken this role if it was that. But I'm like, man,
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: it's the best thing in the world that he took
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: this role. It's the best thing in the world. The
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: producer talked to me out of my foolishness, and and
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: he shines on the screen. He's amazing. In fact, we
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: got so lucky with all the actors. I can't I
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: couldn't even imagine that we would get a cast like that.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: These guys are all brilliant, and I mostly just had
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: to sort of stay out of their way and let
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: them do their thing and learn, watch and learn a lot.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Just like Poker Knight.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: It's that old saying when you have a great script,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: you know, that's like half of the work done for
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: the director right there, so you know, because you can
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: always you know, go from that, you know, all the
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: actors can go from the their actions, their dialogue, the subtext.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: And then they said, you know, having a great DP
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: is like the other.
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: You know, twenty percent, and he said, you know, there's
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: just like ten percent left where the directors it's up
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: to the director to screw it up. Have you ever
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: heard of Craig?
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think there's a lot
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: of truth to that. Over the years of doing it,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: I've I've really learned to sort of step back and
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: let people do their jobs and and I mean, you
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: get the credit anyway, unless they're really screwing up. People
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: still say nice things about me. But my gosh, the
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: crew we had, the DP I have, Brandon Cox, the
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: actors I have. You know, the things that are messed
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: up in the movie aren't my fault, and the things
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: that work, I really the credit belongs to everyone that
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: was up there. The Kadian crew was unbelievable. I just
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: felt really lucky and really blessed with the people I
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: got to work with, So, do.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: You have any other you know, tips for directing actors
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: that you've you know, have you accumulated over the years.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: Boy, everybody's different, and you know you work with somebody.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Each one of them was different. Ron was very specific
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: and if I gave him a note on a line,
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: you could bet that that line would change. He was
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: very I was afraid. There's a couple of John Badam
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: books on directing. I don't know if you've seen those.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: I think it's like I'll be in my trailer and
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: I forget what the next one is. And it was
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: all these stories of him working with big actors and
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: all the problems, and he collected him from generations, you know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: stuff with Steve McQueen and with other people were just
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: directors and actors clash. And so it wasn't that I
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: read that and was like, oh, I'm scared, but I
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: was very nervous going in of you know, who's this
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: guy that's done all this TV and you know, we
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: know what we're doing. We've done two hundred movies. And
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: it's true. They all had, I think, knowing that I
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: wrote the script, and they all had a lot of
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: respect for the script, gave me more cachet. So there
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: was never a time when anybody got grumpy with me
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: or rude to me, or said shut up or you
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: don't know what you're doing. They were all very, very good.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I feel like I'm not
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: an overbearing director. I've learned over the years. One of
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: the things that I usually do, and this is from
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Poker Night even to my crime shows, is I sort
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: of set up the scene, this is what's happening, here's
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: your blocking, and then let them do the scene the
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: way that they've prepped it, because it could be way
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: better than anything that I thought or that I would
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: direct them to do. And so when you see it
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: the first time, you're just like the audience, going wow,
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: this could be amazing. And then if it sucks or
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: it's bad, then you can come in and start leading
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: people a certain way. But I usually don't try. I
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: mean on Poker knighte we didn't get to have rehearsal beforehand.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: You know, we're just thrown right into it. In fact,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, remind me. I'll go back and tell you
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: one more casting story. But I tend to step back
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: and see what people are going to bring to the
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: project first and then go from there. But with these guys,
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: they're all I mean, what could I tell them? You know,
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: these guys are all veteran actors, character actors who've been
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: shooting hundreds of movies and I'm just the guy for
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: this one. But you know, they treated me with respect,
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: They listened to everything that I said, They changed things.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: They would if they felt I was leading them a
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: wrong way. We would talk about that. Ron and I
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: on our very first take, I was trying to do
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: something that I thought was helpful and he sort of
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: was like, well, I think the script, you know, is
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: this way, and it was really good. So they kept
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: me in line too, and I like anything, you know,
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: you learn learn from the best. They were amazing, and
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: it's just being patient. And I love actors. I started
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: as I started in theater. I would never necessarily say
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: I was an actor. But it's so much fun to
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: have people come to life and bring something to life
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: that he did. And to get to work with these
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: guys and have a process to allow them to relax
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: and do their best work, that's something I cherish and
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: really enjoy. So it was so much fun.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: You know, you mentioned having a big actor and you
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: were kind of scared because you know, sometimes they might
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: be you know, used to a certain thing or a
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: certain a certain way. I actually, you know, just to
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: you know, just to compliment that story, I have a
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: friend of mine and he was shooting a movie here
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: in PA and he shot an Eastern State penitentiary and
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: the actor was notorious for just going off of the
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: director at random times. And he was relieved at the
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: end because they didn't have a fight at all. They
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: they actually got along well. And he at the you know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: as they were leaving for the day, he came up
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: to him and he's like, hey, you know, it's amazing
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: we got along and and everything. And the guy said, yeah,
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: well see tomorrow and he said no, no, we're done. The
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: movie's over. And he's like, what the what the fuck
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: do you mean the movie's over? And he goes, well,
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: that was it. We got every all the footage and
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: we we're all good. And he goes, what the fuck
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: and he said he just lost it for no reason.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: For telling him the movie was done. I got and
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: so yeah, you know, but you're right, though, you know,
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: you know, I would still there's certain actors I would
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: just love to work with. But I'm always, you know,
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: hesitant because you know, there's different experience levels and there's
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: different expectations, and you know, and some people just have
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: bad days, you know. Yeah, so you just got to
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: sort of ride the storm and see, you know where
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: that takes you, right, Yeah, And you know, I don't know,
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: everyone has a different approach. I've been doing it a
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: long time, but at that level and the way that
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: those guys probably not at their level.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: But I'm also I come in pretty it's not hat
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: in hand, but you know, I don't feel any need
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: to throw down some kind of you know, I'm the
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: guy in charge and this is how we're going to
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: do it, and you're on my train. I'm know, David Fincher,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: I'm no James Cameron. I don't. That's not my skill
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: set yet, I don't. I'm just a guy that wrote
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: a script and I'm happy to be here and ecstatic
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: to be working with you guys. And so, you know,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I was very I talked to each of them to say, well,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: this will feed into that casting story. So part of
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: making these offers is, you know, you hear all the time.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: While I went and met with this guy and we
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: talked about if this, if they would be right for
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: the part, how they saw things well on this level
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: of filmmaking. You don't. I mean, I wasn't allowed to
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: talk to anybody. The agents refuse to allow me to
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: have a conversation to even be like, well, are they
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: right for this? Do they hate this script? Have they
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: read the script? Do they decide they want to play
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: it in address? You know, I don't get any feel
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: at all other than their body of work and how
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: amazing they seem to be because they don't. You know,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: Proman might get on the phone with me and all
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: of a sudden think I'm a good guy and then say, well,
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: you know, tell his agent make the deal. I don't
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: care what it is. I want to work with him,
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: or the opposite. He might say forget it, I don't
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: want to do it. And the agents are already not
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: happy because you're taking their actor on a small film,
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: and that's time that they can't be making money on
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: a big film. So it's a hard process to get in,
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: and it wasn't until they accept the offer. But then
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: I get a phone number and I can call them,
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: So now they're already in the movie. I don't know
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: if they like me, if they like the script, if
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: we can work together, any of it. So it's a
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: scary call and you have to get on the phone
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, I hope you liked everything. Let's get
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: to know each other. How do you what's your take
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: on this character? And it's all after the fact, so
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: it's a really I mean, I was in amazing hands.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like I was going to somebody that's never
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: done anything and all of a sudden they're hired. And
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: it wasn't. None of these guys had a reputation of
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: being you know, crazy or anything. They're all brilliant actors,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: but it's still that feeling of it's the cart before
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: the horse a little bit that we can't even have
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: a chance to make sure we can get along because
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: some people you just don't get along with. So it
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: was a very frightening thing. But with each of them,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: I was very clear, Look, you know, I've done TV,
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I haven't done a film. I did write this. This
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: is how I see things. If you have a process
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: different than what my process is, tell me the best
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: way that I can help you. You know, this is
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: how I approach it. How do you approach it. I know.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Ron El Dard was one that he told me right away.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: He's like, look, you don't have to come in and
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: play any kind of games with me. I don't need
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: to know, you know, think about this or think about that.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: You just tell me exactly what you want. Say it faster,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: say what you want. I think you should be angry here.
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: I don't like how you said that word. He wanted
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: me to be very specific and not waste time on
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: trying to manage him or direct him in a different way,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: because you know how it is. You will be like, well,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: you know. I was thinking, you know, you've had this
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: part and you've come in here and you're trying to
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: set the scene to get him to a way that
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: you want him to be. And he was just like,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: just tell exactly it. There was another actor on set
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: that was unbelievable in a smaller part, Lochlin Monroe. He
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: played the serial killing photographer and he's been on so
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: many sets and done he was in Unforgiven. He's been
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: in the the a lot of the Wayn Brothers movies,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: and he could tell the cameraman every time he would
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: cross behind the actor, Okay, I'm getting ready to bring
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: out the knife on one, two, three, and then you
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: know he was like directing the cameras.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: That they never missed any parts of his performance in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: the middle of his performance. I've never seen that. And
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: he was brilliant in the film. So there was a
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: lot of everyone has a different process and you sort
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: of start learning. But I think the best thing you
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: can be, at least for me on the first film,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: was to be very flexible and fluid, especially because I
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: mean these are top top actors. They're not you know,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: the money makers that a Tom Cruise is, but man,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: they can just act circles around so many of our
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: big celebrities. They're just really really good. Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: It's also sort of like what dov ss Simon says
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: in his book, you know, from Realer Deal. He always
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: recommends seeing the actors, why don't we try it this way?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And they were totally open to everything. There was
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: one there was only one time that one of the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: actors was like, I'm not going to do that. It
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: was a pretty funny thing. I asked him to do
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: something that was a little bit crazy and he's like,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. And then the next day he
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: told me I really should have done that, which, you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: they're masters at games to all those guys, and so
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: they were directing me as much as I was directing them,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: I once, you know, I was talking to a friend
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: of mine, Gary King, who I'm him to have on
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: the podcast, and he said one thing he learned while
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: making all the student films and short films was that
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: you have to take after each take, direct the actors
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: in a certain way. That way, when you go to edit,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: you have different things to choose from, because he used
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: to have actors basically do scenes, I'm sorry, each each
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: take of a scene the exact same way. And then
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: when he was editing, he's like, man, I got nothing
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: really to choose from. It's, you know, it's either take
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: one where she says it like this, or take two
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: where she says it exactly the same way. You know.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. I think I can see that.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I've ever done that. Partly, I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: feel like you're heading down a path that you know
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: where you want to get to, and you can feel
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: it when it's there, and even just to get what
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: you want correct takes some time, so you know, it
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: might take three or four takes to get it where
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: you want it, and then you want to get it
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: right if they were doing something different every single time. Partly,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it depends too on the kind
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: of director you are, if you're making your show more
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: in the edit room, or if you're locking on set
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: to what you're going to do in the edit room,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: and I do, I would say I would subscribe more
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: to it if I feel like we've really knocked it
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: out of the park on the first set of coverage, Well,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: let's try something different on this one and do one
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: or two takes that way. But it's tough when you
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: don't have a lot of time and you're moving fast
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: on a low budget film to have because then you're
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: going well on your wide shot. If you do five
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: different versions, then you're going to go to your over
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: or your medium shot, and now you've got to do
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: five different versions and they better match the first five versions,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: and then you're close up those all better match those
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: first five, and how delineated are those five. So I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: think that it can work, and especially maybe on a comedy,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: I could see that a lot more because there's a
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: lot more room for that. But I've I haven't done
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: too much that way. I think that it's an interesting
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: idea and if you have all the if you have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of time, I think it'd be a great
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: thing to explore. I just I guess I haven't had
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: that luxury yet.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely agree. Would definitely work better on a
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: comedy because that way you could at least have that
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: juxtaposition of like, you know, he's supposed to say this,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: but he's angry, and it's you know, stuff like that.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I I you know, I see exactly what
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: you mean, and you know, but no, you know, a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: lot of would always come up with his food for thought,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: and it's just you know, that's why I love creating
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: this dialogue, just to see, Yeah, it's awesome.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: And I think too, like if you're really exploring something,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: there's something interesting too to making that happen. I mean,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Fincher's famous for one hundred takes, but I've had people
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: that have been on his sets and they say he's
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: not really directing him much. He's just making him do
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: it again, do it again, do it again, do it again.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: Until you're not acting anymore. You're just talking because you're
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: exhausted and you don't know what he wants. But doing
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: things different ways, I think there is a way that
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: would be interesting to explore that way. Well, what if
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: we did it like this? What if we did it
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: like this and all of a sudden something new comes
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: out of that scene that wasn't there before. I just
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I've never done it that way, but I think it's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: an interesting why.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: It's very interesting, you know.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: One technique I link to do is I actually, on
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: the last take, I just let the actors I say,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to give you any direction, and I'm
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: going to let you just whatever acting decision you want
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: to make, that's what we're going to roll with, and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: just to see what they would come up with, and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: you know, and so that that and also makes the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: actors happy because now they're saying, oh good, we get
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: to have some you know, some input on this scene.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: So uh, you know, you know that That's just what
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: I've sort of learned of the years too. I don't
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: know if it helps much.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: But I think it's a great idea. I usually do
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: that on the first take, where I'm like, well, let's see,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: let's see what you want to do. Let's go out,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: let's just try it. Let's see what it is and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: see what they're doing, and then I'll gradually move them
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: towards what is in my mind influenced by what they did,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: unless what they did was so brilliant, which is what
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: happened a lot with our with our poker guys. And
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: then in the end, a lot of times I'll circle
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: back around and say you want to try something different
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: and let them do a different one, and sometimes that
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: changes the whole scene and then you go, all right, no,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: I really like that take on it, and hadn't thought
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: of that before. Now let's go back and redo the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: wide shot and redo this and switch things around because
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: it's so good because you usually start conservative and then
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: you get a little bit crazier as you go, so
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: it's all fun.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, And you know it's always you know,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: I usually keep I end up keeping like a journal
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: of every day shooting, and you know what I learned there,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: and you know how to do all this stuff that way,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: it carries over well into you know, your next projects.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: When you're like, you know, looking through the back over
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: that stuff and you're like, oh, well, I remember this stuff.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: It's a great idea. I've never done that. That's a
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: really great idea. Oh thank especial right as I get
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: older and I can't remember stuff anymore as well as
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: I used to.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm glad I was able to, you know, give
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: you that great idea.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Uh, so you know with Poker Night, now you know
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: it's on iTunes, you know, could you sort of go
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: through how you got you know, digital distribution for it,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: you know, why you chose iTunes and uh, you know,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: you know, is it company Netflix? Stuff like that?
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure it is. I didn't choose it. The producer. Uh,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the producer did it. And and actually we were picked
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: up prior we we we we're really close to being
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: in south By Southwest last year. We were one of
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: the finalists and then I guess we're one of the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: last two cut and that hurt. But we had a
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: lot of interest in the film then and Accelerator Media
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: is the one that picked up the film right after that,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: and they're an amazing company. They've done really well for
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: us as far as I would know. They got us
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of our online Press and they put it
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: immediately on I think on the fifth it went on
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: video on demand and on Amazon, and it didn't hit
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: iTunes until a couple of weeks after that, and we
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: had a week run here in La at A Theater,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: and it's internationally. There's streams in every language already, but
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: it opened in Iraq, Iran, in Egypt, so it's like
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: conquering the Middle East. That's who we speak, or at
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: least it's playing in the Middle East. I get tweets
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: from Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, a lot from England recently, and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: I think now that it's it's out there legally a
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: lot more people are seeing it. But here you can
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: get it iTunes, you can get it on a vod
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: It's on Amazon and it should be coming to I
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: think it's coming out on DVD in February, and then
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: probably right after that it'll hit Netflix. Oh, very cool, because.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: I'm actually I didn't know it was on Amazon, but
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: I'll make sure to link to that in the show
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: notes if you want to check it out. Yeah, that's awesome,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: you know, because I had Jason Brubaker on, who's like
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: a digital distribution mastermind and He's always talking about you know,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: different ways and you know which you know, there's really
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: no correct answer for the right platform, so to speak.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: You know, so if you chose iTunes, you know, is
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: there really a big difference between that and Amazon? Well,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: I mean I don't know enough to comment, but I mean,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: really what I hear is basically the answer is not really,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: because you know, everyone's fighting over you know space, It's
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: still you know, you know there's a store window where
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: you know people would walk by. Well, now you know
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: the front page of iTunes is that new store window
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: where everyone wants to fight for retail space.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: Yep. So it's been a very interesting thing. And also,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: you know, just the distribution model is different, Like Accelerator
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: had somebody that was just getting lots of placement on
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: different websites for articles, or they did a lot of
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: clips of the movie. In fact, at one pointment I
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: was like, pretty soon we'll be able to see the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: whole movie just through clips. But you would think, well,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: it's going to run. I don't know who knows, I
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: don't know what the digital model is, but maybe it's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: going to run like three weeks before the movie opens,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: and then once it opens it tapers off.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: But it it was a lot longer tail where I'm
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: still getting reports. I mean they're still putting getting reviews
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: and websites that are talking about the movie. We just
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: had an interview on Fangora Go up yesterday and it
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: came out on Amazon and vod on the fifth of December,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: and it wasn't until close to the twentieth i think,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: on iTunes, So you know, just getting it out there
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: and getting it around. It seems to be that their
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: take is it's a lot longer window. You try and
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: hit a lot more sites, and you keep the publicity
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: going because it can always drive somebody there, and it
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: is I think in this climate, just getting anybody even
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: know about the movie is the hardest part, especially if
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: you're not running you know, a thirty second ad every
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: two minutes on TV, So just having anybody even know
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: that it's out there, it takes a lot more time
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: and energy.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely. Somebody one's mentioned to me recently it's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: not money that's in shorte now, it's a tensions.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And he.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: Said, you know, he actually got money for his project,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: and he's like, you know, trying to get the word
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: out there. It's like, you know, it's a very crowded marketplace.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very tough, and especially, you know, the line
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: is so much more divided. What used to be, you know,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: a good you know, two million to five million dollar
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: film is a five hundred thousand dollars film now, and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: you're in the same ballpark as you know, a thousand
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: other films trying to get the same eyeballs and with
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: no money, and so it's it's a difficult time to
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: sort of step out and stand out from the pack.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: But it's also an amazing time because you know, ten
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: years ago, none of those films would get made, or
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: very few of them, just because it was cost prohibitive.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: And now there's so many more ways to get your
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: film out there. It's just we've got to find a
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: good economic model to be able to sustain this new
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: way of doing things.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, very true, and you sort of see
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: how it's sort of forming right now, where basically everyone
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: is getting their own you know, all their own content
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: on their own websites, you know, Netflix, HBO, Go, they're
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: sort of taking their things off Hulu and Netflix and
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: just sort of saying, hey, we're going to just be
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: here from now on, and you you have to subscribe
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: to us. And that's why. Now Netflix and Hulu creating
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: their own content, and pretty much everyone now is looking
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: for their own comment. Even Amazon is looking for their
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: own content. Now.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, back Run's got a new series on Amazon that's
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: really great if you get a chance to see that.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, which is that it's called the Hand of God.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: They just did the pilot. But I think that he's
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: I think that he's wrapped the series, so I don't
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: know how many episodes. It's probably ten, and it'll it'll
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: quite be February March, maybe even later that it's going
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: to come out. But the pilot's up on Amazon now.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: It's really good.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, let's I'll make sure to link to that to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: the show notes.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: I thinks Titus too. His Amazon series Bosh starts in February.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: He's already wrapped that, so he's got another one. So
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: both those guys went immediately to Amazon series right after
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: the film, which is great. It's giving good actors a
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: lot of life and things that maybe they I don't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: know if they for whatever reason they wouldn't say that
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: they could carry a network show in a certain way,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: and these guys had the freedom to do this and
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: make these characters their own. So they both really enjoyed it.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: And that's really cool. And it's also more opportunities for
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: everybody too, because you know, it's going to be more directors.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: And somebody I was at a meeting at the Writers
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: Guild and they were saying there were three hundred, over
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: three hundred drama series on TV last year, over three hundred.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: That's just unprecedented. So there's a lot more opportunity, and
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: I think that's sadly in some ways, I think that's
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: the direction independent film is moving to. Those people that
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: sort of were in that sweet spot in the market
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: are all gravitating towards TV.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: I can definitely see that as well. And and you know,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: and also too, there's so many independent film channels now too,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: which which just you know, specialized independent film, and you know,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: you go on there and you're like, wow, there's like
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: a couple of thousand choices of movies that have been
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: made and you know, in the past five years that
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: are all independent films, and it's just you know, you
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: you don't have enough time to watch them all, you know,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: any given time, because it's always getting new ones in there.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: So you know, it's very Yeah, it's very interesting to
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: see what this is all where it is all going
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: to go, and you know, which eventually is going to
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: become the new market model in both of terms of
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: payment and distribution and you know, and you know, and
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: net neutrality too. You got to make sure that you know,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: stays where it is or else you know, it's all
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: sort of for nothing because if there's you know, there's
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: different you know, levels of Internet, then you know, some
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: people who don't you can't afford the big stuff, you know,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: will you know, get became of trouble watching things online.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of big issues that are coming
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: up and interesting issues, and it's you know, you've been
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: around this business for a long time too. It's not
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: like it's so much more of a middle class business
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: than people think, at least for people in the tech side,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: from the writing, directing, producing, even the acting side. There's
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: the you know, the five to ten percent that are
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: really ridiculously wealthy and the rest of us are sort
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: of grinding at our time because we love this I
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: didn't get into this to become wealthy. I got into
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: this because I love to tell stories, and I love
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: working with people, and I love that collaboration, and I
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: thank God that I'm able to pay my rent doing it.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: But nobody's like stockpiling millions and driving a BMW. You know,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: we're still all Honda Toyota guys, trying to go to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: work each day and make enough money to pay your
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: rent at the end of the month. And mostly just
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: because we do love this. This is I can't imagine
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: doing anything else. Just feel very lucky and thankful and
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: blessed each day on whatever level of production you get
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: to be involved in. It's it's a great way to
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: make a living. It's a hard way to make a living,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: but man it I can't imagine doing anything else. It's
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: so much fun.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I completely agree. You know, it's like Ted Hope,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: he actually left in Penta filmmaking and then now he's back.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: It's just it's an addiction.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: It is addiction. You're absolutely right, Greg.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: I actually a few questions for people wrote in If
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: you don't mind, I'll just pick like the best three.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: The first question is, uh, do you have to live
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: in l A to become a screenwriter.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: Nope, especially not now. I think the caveat to that
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: would be, Uh, it sure helps. I was in Indiana
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: when Poker Night first. I was in the trades, uh,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: with the First Incarnate when we had Sam Jackson in
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: and suddenly I had agents for writing, and I had,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: you know, forty to fifty meetings with all the different
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: studios and all the little studios, and I had to
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: fly out every time, and then I had to do
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff on the phone, And so you go,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: is it easier if you're here? It sure is easier.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: If somebody calls your agent says, hey, that guy that
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: wrote that thing that we read last week, can we
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: get him in here today, And they're like, no, he
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: doesn't live here, but.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: We could do a phone.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: They might be like, eh, we'll get somebody else in then,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: so I think. But once you've made it, I don't
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: know if it matters as much. And the industry is
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: getting smaller, but boy, it's hard to get that lightning
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: in a bottle for that first script to get people
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: interested and wanting to meet with you. And I think
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: being out here helps, and especially I mean I wasn't here,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: so it was really and probably you see the movie
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: and you're like, well, that script shouldn't have gotten any attention.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: But I think for some of the script that aren't
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: one thousand percent great, but maybe they're only eighty percent great.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: It sure helps to know low level executives, the low
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: level assistance people that you can give your script to
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: that'll read it and then push it up to their boss.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: And you don't get to do that unless you're out here.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: So I do think that there are advantages to it.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: But I would wait until the last possible second. I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: would get two three scripts under your belt and then
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: come out when you're ready blow up the town and
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: then you can get out. Yeah.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: And you know, it's like what Quentin Tarantino said about,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: you know, making a first project. He said, oh, just
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: make Reservoir Dogs.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Had I went to one of the first
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: things I went to out here was the guys that
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: wrote Batman Forever, and they had written a script before
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: that that was a brilliant script, but no one had
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: seen Batman Forever yet, and everyone was asking, well, how
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: do you do this, how do you do that? And
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: they kept going, just write a great script and everything
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: will happen for you. And I was so angry at
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: the time, and like, what does that mean? And how
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: do you write a great script? And you know, it's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: almost a blowof and it also implies that they wrote
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: all these great scripts and that man forever sucked. So
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: I was even angrier after I saw that. But I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: do think there's some I mean, there's some truth to
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: Once you have material that people want, you're in a
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: whole different place. You control a lot of things. They
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: have to come to you to get it. At the
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: same time, you know, if you write a great script,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: shoot it. If you're in Indiana, if you're in Pennsylvania,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: if you're in Georgia, get friends together and do it.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: Write something that you can do, and you come out
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: here with a project that's good. You're in a whole
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: different world and you're treated completely different than somebody that
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: wants people to give you something or that you want
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: to give you a chance. You've already taken that from them,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: and you've given yourself permission and done it yourself.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: And then and then the world is different Hopefully it's
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: a good film and it's a good project. But it's hard.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a hard game, and uh, being out here,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: I think at the beginning anyway, making those contacts and
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: working your way up is a good way to go,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: although it's changing fast. Uh you know.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: That kind of answers the second question as well, which was,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: once I had a screenplay written and finalized, what should
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: be my next step?
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: Get everybody to read it, anybody that you can, and
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: have them tell you all the things that they hate
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: and don't like, and give it to people that will
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: be honest with you. I have I have a group
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: of writers across the country from Virginia to Midwest out
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: here that I've worked with over the years, and man,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: before we shot Poker Night, I send it to all
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: of them again and they've read it over that ten years,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, look, I'm about to shoot. Don't let
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: me make an ass out of myself. Tell me what sucks,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: because this is the last chance. And I don't know
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: if they did good enough job. There's all some problems
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: that you know, you have to cultivate those those people
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: and then anyone that you know, you just give it
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: to them, and you keep trying to find somebody that's
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: going to get it to somebody that means something. And
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: I would say, why you've done that. You better be
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: writing more. Don't think that this is the one that's
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: going to do it, because it's probably ninety nine percent
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: chance that it won't. You need to have more than
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: one script, and they need to be getting better and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: they need to see something. And then the truth is,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: is the way the business is now unless you're making
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: it yourself. There wasn't anybody that I had a meeting
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: with on Poker Night and it all starts the same way.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: Oh we love the script, it's a great script. We
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: have these projects. Would you be interested in this? They
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: don't want to make your movie. They want you to
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: make their movie, so they're going to be offering you
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: things that they have to see if you're right for that.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: So all of these things are just things to get
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: you in a door unless you're going to do it yourself.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: But the only way to do that is to have
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: two or three things, keep writing and develop a voice
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: that people want to hear. It's a hard, hard road.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: And again the other side of that is I think
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: I said it on Ashley's thing, which is I'm not
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: the most talented writer. I have so many friends that
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: are way better than me and way more deserving of
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: getting attention for the writing than me. I think that
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: I picked the right subject at the right time and
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: did it in a way that was different enough that
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: it caught people's attention. It wasn't writing about Martin Luther
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: King or LBJ or the Game of Thrones. It was
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: something that was very doable. It was very genre. It
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: was something that you could read it and see what
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: it was going to be. It wasn't setting the world
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: on fire. It was just sort of a very popular
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: genre that people were liking. And so it was more
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: right place, right time than any great talent on my part.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: So I think it's being open to all those things
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: and trying to get better and and and then getting lucky,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: sad to say, has a lot to do with it too.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that is very true. You know, luck does play
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: an integral part in some of this, and and you
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: know it actually ties in with with the third question,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: which is, you know, should I crowdifund my project to
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: show investors that there was no interest in the project.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: And I think this person is saying is if they crowdfund,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: they can then go to investors and b C. We've
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: already raised x amount of dollars. There is interesting this project.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: Can we get you know, an actual you know private
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: you know private equity?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Now, yes, I would say when I came out to
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: LA with poker knite and a million dollars in the bank,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: it was a lot easier to open the door for
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: me than it was coming out to LA with poker
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: knite and no money in the bank. When people feel
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: like you're halfway there and you've already convinced some people
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: that your project has worth, it does make a difference.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: It made a huge difference. So yes, if you could
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: crowdfund half your budget, a quarter of your budget, it
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: certainly is a lot easier for an investor to come
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: on when they're not the first one. The first one's
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: the hardest, just like the cast. And I feel like
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: once you say I've already got fifty thousand dollars in
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: the bank and I need two hundred thousand, it's a
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: lot smaller road to get there, and you're already on
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: that road where people feel like we're getting on a
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: train that's moving, not we're the one that's having to
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: push the car. So yes, I would definitely say that's
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: the case.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: Very cool.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: And why would I say that. I have no idea.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: I'm saying it. It seems like it would be the case.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: And it's got to put you. It sets you up
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: heart from the other people and put your further down
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: the road. But I say all this without great knowledge
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: or bat and so take it as a caveat. But
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just an idiot who got lucky.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: Uh, you know, it's very good advice, Greg, though. You know,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 4: I do think you made a really good point. And
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 4: you know, if you do have money in an Esco
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: account and you know, say hey we're halfway there or
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: we're twenty percent there or seventy percent there, it does
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: carry some cash with it. In that way you can
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: and people are like, oh, this guy is serious, and
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: you know he is bowing towards something, and you know,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: you know, just you know, Uly, I know you have
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 4: places to be before I really quickly. I'll tell you
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: a little story about we were I was gonna be
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: part of a pitch fest, a producer's pitch fest, and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: we were going to invite wealthy investors. We knew to
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: come talk to us, and it ended up falling apart.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: But you know, what I was doing was creating a
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: very well thought out back it and then if they
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: wanted to, they could just read the executive summary as
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: soon as they opened it. And then everything else was like,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: you know, going to be all about our market aggregators,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: our social media plan, how to you know, getting an
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: email list. I mean it was so in depth. And
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: you know, one person, she said to me, do you
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: think that they're going to sit there and read all this?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: And I said no, but they'll probably pass along to
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: like their accountant or their money manager or somebody else
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: who probably will read it. And you know, that's that
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: was my plan. Unfortunately never happened. We ended up not
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: having a pitch fest. So and that was that was
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: probably two years ago now. So right now I've just
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: been you know, writing scripts in the meantime, but that's
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 4: just started to tie in with everything.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it is. That was actually even while you
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: were talking to I was thinking of there's there's a
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: deal out here in LA that they'll do occasionally with
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: post houses now, and I think part of it is
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: because the post industry sort of upended a little bit
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: in the last few years too, where post House will
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: say to you'll have a script, and they're getting into
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: the producing business, so they'll say, well, we'll give you
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: post on this film. Let's say we're going to give
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: you three three hundred thousand dollars of services, but we'll
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: only charge you fifty grand. So you can go to
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: investors now and say you've got three hundred thousand dollars
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: of investment in your movie against your million dollars by
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: having us on board, and then you'll bring all the
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: posts here and pay us with what you make out
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: of the film, and we'll be executive producers. So there
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: are people that are putting deals together that way now too.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: But it it puts you on the road. Does that
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: make sense? So I think it would be the same
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: with crowdsourcing. Oh yeah, that.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 4: Makes a lot of sense. So is it just like
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: certain production houses that.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: Are doing that now or post houses. I've seen it
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: with post houses, okay, with a lot of them. And
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 3: part of it is, you know, that also gives them
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: work to keep their people going and projects coming in
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: and they're reaching out to you know, more people on
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: the lower end of the spectrum where you know, they
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: might be telling you it's a three hundred thousand dollars investment,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: but probably they're giving you one hundred thousand dollars investment
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: that's overpriced to three hundred. So if you get money in,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: they get paid out first and they get a bigger
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: price than what it was. So probably every tenth film
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: that one of them finally makes money pays for the
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: other nine. But it does give you a way to
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: get started. And so I've heard that going on out here.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: Not as a scam. I don't think it's a scam,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: but I do think it's that sort of bonus of
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: being first in and then looking out for themselves. Yeah.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 4: Actually, I think that's a great idea.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a smart way to go. And I think
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: equipment houses will do that too. You know, they'll work
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: your deal line.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 9: Well, it's two hundred thousand dollars of equipment, we'll give
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 9: you that up, we'll give it to you, but you're
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 9: gonna pay us eighty thousand dollars against that, and then
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 9: when your deferments come in, you'll.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: Pay us the rest. So you kind of piece it
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: together piece by piece.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then that actually you know that would help
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 4: a lot if two of equipment host to that. So
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, and you know, just thinking out loud, it'd
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: be great if you actually, you know, could crowdfund something
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: and get you know, both a post house and a
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: a storage house to actually do that for you. Actually,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: if they could actually join in together and you could
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: get you know, you know, six figures of services for
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: you know, whatever amount of money, that's excellent, and then
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 4: you start have to come up with a way to
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: pay your cast and your crew. But but the rest
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: of it, it's a great way to get started. Oh yeah, absolutely,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: But yeah, that's actually a good strategy because I mean
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: if you did have that and then you could actually
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 4: you know, eive the crowdfund and then go through that.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 6: and now back to the show.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: To get a like a producer to actually come on
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: board or you know, a well known direction photography and
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: then you know, try to like you said it, you know,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: the first cast member to actually add importance to the
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: project and sort of go from there.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's a great, great way. In fact, truthfully,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: just like the script, any way that you can get
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: money for your project is a great way. It's an
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: even better way if you can actually return money to
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: your investors. That's the best way. But it's just it's
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: a it's an interesting climate and an interesting time, and
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: I think the more people are innovative about how they
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: approach it, the more chances you have.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, very true, And you know, I think we'll end
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: up seeing more of those chances coming up now with
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: everything changing. As we were just like as we were saying,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: totally well.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: And I mean again this if an idiot like me
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: can do it. I mean, it took us ten years
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: to get it to this point, and you want to say, well,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: after ten years, you hope it's really good. And I
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: don't know if we got anything that was really good,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 3: but it's good. It's just it's a long road and
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: you want to go down it with your eyes open
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: and enjoy the experience. And some people are going to
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: get really lucky and in the first year, for six
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: months they might hit it and all of a sudden
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: they're making a movie. Other people it might be longer
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: than ten years. But it's just know what you're getting into,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: enjoy that process, and don't let anybody stop you and
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: don't take no, because if you want to make it,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: you can do it. And I think I'm I'm proof
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: you don't have to be a genius or super talented.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: You just have to really enjoy the ride and do
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: your best.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: So and that is a great message, and you know,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: I wholy agree with you, Greg. So, Greg, you know,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 4: where can people find you out online?
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Tumblr. I
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: think that's it.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 4: You also have an IMDb too, which, oh yeah, IMDb,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 4: I got my email.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: If they don't want to bug me, I guess any
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: of that's fine.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 4: And where can they find Pocer.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: It's at Poker Night, is on vo D, It's on Amazon,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: it's on iTunes, and in February it'll be on Blu
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: ray D.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 4: Excellent. And I'm going to make sure to link all
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 4: those in the show notes. So if for those listening
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: who want to actually purchase it, rent it, you can
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: go to write to those links. I recommend you check
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: it out. You know, I've seen the trailer and you know,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 4: from what I've talked, from what I've heard from Greg
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 4: and talked to rig about, you know, it sounds phenomenal
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 4: and I want to check it out. I'm probably going
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 4: to check it out tonight. I actually literally this week
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: has been like I've had no time to watch anything,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 4: so that's why I haven't watched it. So I but
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: I promise Greg will watch it, so.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 3: I don't even work. When you get a chance, take
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: a peek and then let me know what you think.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: All right, we'll do.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of people, Greg, who listen to the
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: show who don't, like, you know, either subscribe or what
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 4: have you. And I'm always you know, pleading with people.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 4: Please it helps me parlay to get you know, guests
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: or you know too because they want to come on
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: a good show. They don't want to come on a show.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 4: It's like, oh, they have no subscribers, they have no
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 4: very ratings, you know, what is this? But so it's
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: kind of like a movie you have to attach, you know,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: somebody to to add importance to it, you know. So,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: but Greg, thank you so much for coming on. You know,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. And you know, you know, I
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: wish you the best poken night, and also I wish
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 4: you best with you know, whatever projects you're working on now,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: and hopefully we'll see something something another movie from you soon.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: They can't can't say how much I appreciate it. Thanks
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: so much for asking me on, and I'm really impressed
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: and excited for what you're doing. And if anyone feels
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: like they're wondering what kind of show it is, look
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: down the list of names that Dave has on a
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: show and it's quality, quality people. I don't know what
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: I'm doing there with this list, but it's a great group.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: He's doing God's work for films. So thanks for having
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 3: me on.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: Man, Oh, thank you so much for the commerts. I
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 4: really appreciate that. Greg.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: Thanks brother, stay in touch bug me. If you need
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: anything else, let me know.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: All right, Thank you very much and I have a
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 4: great Saturday.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: All right, you too, Dave.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: Thanks everybody, Bye bye.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: Forward slash for eighty one. Thank you so much for
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. At Bulletproof
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv,