Latest / DevQuestions with Tim Corey / 158 How Important is a Computer Science Degree for Software Developers?

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158 How Important is a Computer Science Degree for Software Developers? · DevQuestions with Tim Corey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Dev Questions Podcast with Tim Corey.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Join us each episode as we tackle the questions you are asking about a career in software development, understanding the industry, and new technology.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just starting out or you want to grow stronger as a developer, this is the place to get your questions answered.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's your host, expert developer and online educator, Tim Corey.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: How important is a computer science degree for software developers?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: This is a question that came up on the suggestion site, hence one I want to tackle in today's episode of DevQuestions.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So is a CS degree important for software developers, a computer science degree?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's talk about the benefits of a computer science degree first.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: The first benefit is it absolutely provides you with a checkbox on your application.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: I went out and looked for remote C sharp entry-level developer jobs in my area.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, they are remote, they are in my 100-mile radius of where I live in Texas.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Every single one asked for a degree in computer science or related.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what does that mean?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what it means is if you have an IT degree, sure.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a web development degree, sure.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you have some kind of technology degree, sure.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they don't really care about it being a computer science degree, but they wanted a degree of something kind of relevant.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: So not a history degree, necessarily.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: All the reality is they probably wouldn't care.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that does provide you with that checkbox.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have a degree in.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the thing though.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Every single one of them, while they asked for that under the requirements, they also said, or relevant experience.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Every one of them.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you can either have that, I have a degree, or, and some of them said one year, two year, three year, even four years of work experience instead of a degree.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I will tell you that having been taught, having talked to a number of hiring developers, having been in the industry for a long time, if you came in and said, I don't have a degree, but I have four years work experience, yeah, that's worth a whole lot more than a degree.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a weird tipping point there where they may say, we require either a degree or four years experience.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have three years experience, you actually will probably be ahead of the person who has a degree.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the computer science degree does give you that checkbox, which helps you early, early on in your career for your very first job.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, it's also going to provide you with a little bit of knowledge about a lot of things.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, for instance, you'll learn about networking and operating systems and computer hardware and servers and interactivity and firewalls and the things that are around software development that aid software development and that are not necessarily software development themselves.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll definitely have a more rounded education than if you just focus on software development.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: You'll have a better understanding of the theory around a lot of electronics.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, again, how much you really learn that and not just pass tests, but actually learn it will depend on how well you actually get value out of it.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: But that is a valuable part of the computer science degree.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: That rounding will help you as a developer.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk now about the drawbacks of a computer science degree.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Number one is cost.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this does depend on where you live.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Certain areas you get a degree for free.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sweet.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably worth it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say probably, because not necessarily worth it, but it's probably worth it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: So in the US, you're gonna spend at least, well, in most cases, at least$100,000,$25,000 a year.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a lot of colleges will charge more than that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you go to a local state school, it might be a lot less than that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: You may pay$50,000, but you're gonna pay a significant amount of money for, and here's the next thing, four years.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: A computer science degree is a four-year degree, which means that for four years of your life, you'll be paying someone else to teach you computer science.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be spending four years of your life doing it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of this, you will have very little practical knowledge.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you will have lots of theory, you will have had lots of classroom time, you'll have had lots of homework assignments, you have built a few little applications, even potentially.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not many, maybe a couple.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you'll have very little practical knowledge.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: For the most part, you are not going to work like you would in a real business.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll not be learning how to work in a real business.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, when you do get a job, you will not have experience in how to do the day-to-day processes of working as a software developer.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the limitations are cost, time, and a lack of practical knowledge or a limited amount of practical knowledge.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: So let's put it this way: if you spent four years of your time learning and building software on your own for free, you would be overqualified for most entry-level positions.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you spent four years studying it, building practice projects, getting better at it for four years, you would be overqualified.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But let's take a step back.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: What if you spent one year learning?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: One year learning and building.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's one year of your time.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then you spent a whole year looking for a job.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now that may feel frustrating.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Spending a whole year and not getting a job, taking a full year before you finally get something.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, think about this.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you spend a whole year studying, a whole year looking for a job, that's two years.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now you're gonna have a job for two years before you would have graduated.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: You will literally be hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because imagine entry-level job,$40,000.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty low salary for entry level.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: But let's just say$40,000 a year for two years.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's$80,000 you will have made.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: College is gonna cost you at least$100,000 in most cases.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that will have cost you that much.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: So not spending$100,000, earning$80,000, that's a$180,000 difference in two years.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: So do I recommend a computer science degree?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not really, no.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Not for software developers.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, is it important?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I can't really find a case where it is of value.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, can it help?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely can help.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it's a checkbox on your application that can get you your first job.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: That can be important.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the question is, is it worth four years and$100,000 plus of your money, plus the loss of that work experience and that income you could have been making?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, would I recommend it?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I wouldn't.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, my oldest son is now 20.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when he graduated high school, he said, you know what?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do college.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I can't blame you because I spent all this time saying it's not really necessarily worth it for software developers, which is what he wanted to be.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he spent a year working at the local hardware store.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Not exactly the high-paying job you'd love to have.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: However, he now he spent a year, he found a software development job.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: By the time his peers graduate, he will have had three years of work experience and three years of income and zero college debt.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big deal difference.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: So his career will always be further along than if he had gone to college.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I see that as a win.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see how it would have been helpful to him to potentially go into debt, to spend all that time, and the end result would be to hopefully have a piece of paper that would hopefully maybe get him a job he's already gotten.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing is, that's what I did too.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, I went to college for one year.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I dropped out to pay for it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to go into debt.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a job full-time working as a software developer.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it can be done.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, again, will that degree help you?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it can get you that first job.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, is it worth the cost?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're already getting a software development job or a software development degree, if you're already in a computer science degree, should you drop out?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: I genuinely, or I usually would not encourage that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: There are a few times when maybe, sure, it might be the right choice.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: You have to make that, I can't make it for you.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you're already down the road, and maybe you're at your sophomore year or something like that, well, that's probably a good time to stick with it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because first of all, completion is important.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Being able to say, hey, I finished that, I didn't just drop out, that's important.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But also, if you if you've gotten through your sophomore year, at least in the US, the way things are usually structured in college is that you get your liberal arts uh stuff out of the way first, your math, science, English, uh, literature, fine arts, those kind of things that are just general for most people.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: You get those out of your way, out of the way early.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as you get into your junior and senior year, your last two years of college, is when you get more and more of the computer science stuff and the more of the stuff that's specialized for what you want to do.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the stuff that's going to be helpful.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so absolutely you want that stuff if you're already in the process.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so then you get the degree.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that is valuable about a degree is it will allow you to then get an advanced degree.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes an advanced degree can be helpful, a master's degree or even a doctorate.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: I actually now have my undergraduate degree.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was working as an IT director, I also went full-time online.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was brutal, but I went full-time online and got my degree because I wanted to have that piece of paper to say, yes, I have this because I wanted to be able to build on top of it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now I never ended up building on top of it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I tried to get a master's degree and it just didn't work out the timing and which one I wanted.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But that was something I wanted to prepare myself for so I was ready and able.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: But it was also because someone else paid for it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't pay for my degree.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I never had any debt from college.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's important to figure out what works best for you.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Not every situation is best for every person.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: But in general, if you were to ask me, is a computer science degree worth it?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: My answer would be no.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not worth it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can learn what you need to, you can spend the time you need to to practice and learn in a year time, more than you get from college.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the C Sharp master course is designed to, if you take your time and if you are working full time, so you only have part-time to give to it, you can still go through it in a year.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in that year, go from I know nothing about C sharp to I can be employed as a C sharp developer and know more than a person who graduated from college.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: One year and at the this time of this recording,$500.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a fraction of what it costs to get a degree.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a guided path through the end, and it's in one year.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And again, if you spent another year looking for a job and then you got a job, you would still be hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead of where you would be if you got the degree.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I just don't find it of value.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's my opinion.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can absolutely have a different opinion if you find different positives or negatives to the degree.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it also depends on the region in which you live and what the cost is for a degree.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so that's my answer.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Let me know down in the comments what your thoughts are if you're watching on YouTube.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're listening on a podcast, you can go on to YouTube and leave comments still.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But thanks for listening either way.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, I am Tim Corey.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Dev Questions.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Tim is committed to making it easier for you to become a developer.
• 13:45
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• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can also send your questions to questions at IamTimcorey.com.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember, you are too smart and your time too valuable to waste it making all the mistakes Tim did.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: When you're ready to learn to think and code like a professional developer, head over to imtimcore.com and enroll in a course.