Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 141. Back to Basics: Boards - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE

Transcript

141. Back to Basics: Boards - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm john.
• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where nonprofit professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Have you fatty Becky,
• 0:37
  Becky Endicott: welcome, everybody.
• 0:39
  Jonathan McCoy: We're going back to basics yet again,
• 0:41
  Becky Endicott: we are going back to basics we are talking about yo Bo woods.
• 0:46
  Jonathan McCoy: And just to be clear, this is not going to be a boring conversation on boards
• 0:49
  Becky Endicott: up one dad joke right there right out of the gate,
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: can't not.
• 0:53
  Becky Endicott: I'm glad we're talking about boards, because I actually think this is one of the most underutilized areas of our entire sector. And today, we're going to try to right some wrongs that have historically gone on it answered with boards.
• 1:07
  Becky Endicott: And we're going to use some we're for good goodness into it,
• 1:10
  Jonathan McCoy: you bet we are because statistically, you have a board. If you are a nonprofit, you have to by law have a board.
• 1:18
  Jonathan McCoy: So we're talking about activating that, you know, we are not a check the box type of organization, we don't preach or teach that. And if you've got these people that are value aligned, hopefully with your mission, it is time to activate them to lean into them and to really use them to their full potential. And I hope that's kind of the tone of what this conversation is all about.
• 1:37
  Becky Endicott: And I wonder how you found your board members, is that something that you want, you know, the story of what is the history between them in your organization, because there are very few individuals at least I want to think this and my optimistic heart that go on a board because it adds to the resume, it happens, Becky,
• 1:54
  Jonathan McCoy: I'm sorry, it's true.
• 1:55
  Becky Endicott: I'm just not going to believe that. I'm going to think that's a really small cadre of people. But most people who are sitting on boards have some connection to your mission, there is a reason that they are there, it there is a reason that they are giving up their free time to come and pour into this greater mission that you are perpetuating within your organization. And so we need to talk today about the difference between an advisory board and a working board. And I'm here to tell you, I did not know there was a difference until probably about five years into my nonprofit fundraising career.
• 2:27
  Becky Endicott: What about you?
• 2:28
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, I mean, same story for me as well. And I think, you know, the first time I would became aware of the board, and the first organization that I was a part of, I was so intimidated by it.
• 2:36
  Jonathan McCoy: I think there's just this air of intimidation about boards, which is why they're probably not talked about enough, at least in the early, you know, career of being involved in a nonprofit.
• 2:45
  Jonathan McCoy: But I hope, you know, as we went along in our careers, we get to know board members and just like get you said, hear everybody's stories, you realize, they are people that are passionate about your cause at a really deep level that want to use their network to advance the mission, they really are such great allies like it is important that you get to know them and know them at a deeper level. So you can activate them and what you know, means the most for them.
• 3:11
  Becky Endicott: And I also just think if you were in that fear mindset of I'm so intimidated by these individuals that have power or wealth or influence, or whatever it is, I don't want to bother them. That is the opposite of what they want us to do. They want to be engaged at a very meaningful level, they want to know how they can activate people within their network that you referenced how they can leverage their philanthropy in a way that gets others on board. I think our boards are hungry and waiting for us to come to them and activate them for good. And so today, we are going to try to move you away from having an advisory board to getting into a working board. So I want to break down some components of a working board. Number one, they need to have an incredibly clear job description. They need to know exactly why they're there.
• 4:01
  Becky Endicott: They need to know the time commitments. They need to know what their roles and responsibilities are. They need to know how much you're expecting from them. And I don't think that that is inappropriate to put if you have a minimum giving level at your board that needs to be included. The second thing is your recruitment needs to be really forthcoming about how you want to use them. And in the first episode, actually wasn't the first with the major giving episode we talked about the three tenants of an incredible major gift prospect and I think those three tenants carry over into board members and volunteers as well which is number one, they have influence.
• 4:39
  Becky Endicott: Number two, they have affluence or wealth. And number three, they can get traction, meaning they can get things off high center so we need to be talking to our board and recruiting them based on those three things. If they have all three of them.
• 4:54
  Becky Endicott: That is going to be an incredible board member. We need to onboard them incredibly Well, we need them to know our organization know, our people know, our strategic plan, they need to be able to answer anything about us when they're out in the community is one of our spokesperson. And the one I think everybody forgets is you need to introduce your board, to your staff, and to the important people in your organization, your staff should not have a very distant relationship with your board, it should not be the executive director of your organization is the only one interfacing with these individuals, it needs to be a team effort. And that is only going to help grow the network as well.
• 5:36
  Jonathan McCoy: I love that. And I also want to lift a conversation that we have talked about numerous times on the podcast is just the D lens on boards, because I think it's so critical. And I think of the conversation with Anna Marie or he logos with Hispanics and philanthropy. She really said, you know, if we want to change the sector, and really move the needle, because we look at the stats, and it's like the boards are not representative of the breakdown of our country in terms of ethnicities, and how that breaks down, it's horribly skewed in the opposite, even
• 6:08
  Becky Endicott: our missions, they're not representative, the mission we're trying to
• 6:10
  Jonathan McCoy: serve, right. So you've got to be intentional in how we're recruiting for these positions. And if your board doesn't reflect the community that you're serving, it's time to make the table bigger, add some seats, or it's time to, you know, look at rolling people off the board and adding people to the table rolling up a chair and changing that. So I loved her calling call to action at the end of the episode. And it was Episode 119 if you want to go back and listen. But she says, you know, some people need to step down to give their seat to somebody that needs to be in that seat. And you don't want to just check the box here. I mean, again, I sound like a broken record. But it's not about just making that room and and thinking that you're done with getting one seat on the board representing whatever diversity angle that you know, you're missing. But it's really do they feel supported? Do they have the resources? Do they have the bench to be able to actually have other people that have this lived experience, they can advocate for those that you're serving. So I think we've got a, you know, throw that out too, is just a really key thing. As you're looking at who you're going to recruit.
• 7:11
  Becky Endicott: I feel like you're trying to poke the bear by talking to me about term limits, because I am going to get onto that soapbox later in this conversation, and I'm going to beat that drum hard. So great thoughts. And I think it'd be just kind of tone setting if we give some overarching thoughts to how boards are moving and living right now in nonprofits.
• 7:30
  Becky Endicott: Are you aware there's 1.3 million nonprofit boards in the United States alone? Wow. Okay, and so here's a quiz for everybody. What is the most important policy for a board to adopt? What do you think it is?
• 7:44
  Jonathan McCoy: It's a multiple choice. That'd be easier.
• 7:46
  Becky Endicott: I'm not gonna put you on the spot. Conflicts of interest. Yeah, that's okay.
• 7:49
  Becky Endicott: This is a big thing that I think not a lot of people are looking at, are you making sure that there is no connection to how you run your business? And how a board member profits from you running your business? So I mean, I think that is a very common overarching thought that I think some overlook.
• 8:07
  Jonathan McCoy: But you know, something on that. I mean, I don't know if you're going there, I like to stop to mid sentence is that if you know, and especially in a small community, there's going to be tons of conflict of interest, right? There's only so many, you know, of one type of company that serves specific sector. But I think the idea is that identifying those conflicts of interests, you understand them, so that let's say they're taking a vote in something that would have overlapping issues, it'd be able to step out of that vote and to say, Okay, then they're not going to have influence and these type of issues relating to the board is my
• 8:40
  Becky Endicott: Oh, that's a great, I love that. So another one that I was thinking of that is a common question that I see a lot in our sector is people are asked, should the nonprofit leader or executive director be on a board? And I think we're here to say, yes, of course, they should be on the board.
• 8:57
  Becky Endicott: They have intimate knowledge of the organization of the people of the strategic plan and the vision, and they need to be able to communicate that to people who are not on the front lines all the time. However, they should probably not be a voting member, you know, they're they're almost in an advisory capacity to fill in the gaps.
• 9:15
  Becky Endicott: And so that's something I would also encourage everyone to think about.
• 9:54
  Jonathan McCoy: And then look around at what your organization's needs are, your board can be a great source for pro bono expertise in areas. You know, I think we've really seen the power of this of somebody that's really great. As an accountant in town, from a finance perspective, or someone that has great PR connections, you can recruit to those spaces, and then you've got this bench of people that are connected, that can leverage their expertise and can bring your team alongside them and so that you can really add that to your recruitment grid and it's gonna be really powerful.
• 10:25
  Becky Endicott: I agree. And I am thinking specifically of one individual at our former organization. He was an attorney, longtime grateful patient and of our organization and You know, we didn't have a ton of complicated planned gifts, but we had them occasionally. And he was so gracious about helping us write like a charitable remainder unit trust, which is a very dense document. And you need to have someone with an incredible legal mind to go through that. And the fact that he could offer that to us pro bono by virtue of being our board member was so incredible. And something that would have cost us as an organization, a ton, just outsource. So love that one win win. Okay, so let's go over sort of the basic responsibility of nonprofits boards. And we pulled this from board source board source, which is such a great organization that has such a wealth of information and resources on building your board. So here's a couple things that we want you to think about in terms of where your focus should be on your nonprofit board. Number one, they determine the mission and the purpose. Number two, they select the chief executive, whether that's an executive director, vice president or your CEO. And then number three is then they support and evaluate the CEO.
• 11:34
  Becky Endicott: And I have to say, I see this as a misstep, and something that very few boards do is actually hold an evaluation or an annual review of the chief executive.
• 11:46
  Becky Endicott: Number four, they ensure effective planning, that means we're actually forecasting and talking vision and talking about how we're going to move the needle. Number five, they monitor and strengthen programs and services. Number six, they protect assets and provide proper financial oversight. So this is all about your investment committee. It's your finance committee. And you could be a organization that is a small cog in a larger organization. Number seven, you want to build a competent board, their peers need to be incredibly competent, and at the same level of amazing, awesome sauce that each of your other board members are number eight, they need to ensure legal and ethical integrity. And I'm putting like an asterisk on that, like, please, if you do none of these, please do the ethical and legal integrity seriously. And the last one, number nine, enhance the organization's public standing.
• 12:37
  Becky Endicott: So that's it just nine little things that are massive, massive kind of structures that will help keep your organization focus pointed in the right direction, and have incredible oversight. Hey, friends, we wanted to take a moment to thank our amazing sponsor gift butter, the world's fastest growing online giving platform powering more than 35,000 causes. One of these is family reach a national nonprofit dedicated to eradicating the financial barriers that accompany a cancer diagnosis. Like many of us, they were unsure how they were going to replace their critical in person fundraising events during COVID. Family reach put gift butters virtual fundraising tools to use by hosting a super fun and engaging celebrity chef cooking challenge where they raised more than $350,000. And if you think this was a one off success, think again. They just did it again and raised more than $600,000 family reach raves about give butters ability to livestream video alongside their real time support her feed and saw have the threaded comments engage their audience beyond what was possible on other platforms. It's buttery goodness at its finest. Don't miss the full success story in our show notes, ready to explore how gift butter can help your organization take your online fundraising to the next level, check them out at gift butter.com.
• 13:55
  Jonathan McCoy: These conversations were calling back to basics for a reason, there's just some fundamental things that should just be true. And those things should be true. But we you know, keep throwing the we're forget lens on all these conversations. So this is where we really start to geek out because we feel like that you can really dream bigger for what your board can do from an engagement level and how you engage with them as a leader in your organization, or just a staff member as well. And so the first one of these that I would throw at you is really build an engagement and a communications calendar for the year just for your board. Because just seeing them at the meeting, once a quarter or just on the zoom is even worse, probably, that you there's so many moments in between where you could really be sharing wins, asking questions, activating, sharing, amazing stories, and just losing this connectivity. These are probably really busy people. And this could be a bright spot and a connection point that they could remember why they wanted to sign up for this opportunity.
• 14:51
  Jonathan McCoy: And so it's really being intentional about that and setting a calendar. So you remember to do it to
• 14:55
  Becky Endicott: the second one is make a weekly ask of your board and I'm not saying a solicitation, but I'm saying ask them for help on something. And crystal cherry did such a great job of this in her episode in season one and we will definitely link up to that episode because it has such resonance with this organization or with this topic. But make an ask of your board. Have him write an email, have a make a call, have him send a thank you note if you're trying to get a grant in, ask them if they know anybody on the board have that foundation where you're trying to get a grant approved, so activate them in a way that's very intentional. Sometimes they may raise their hand. You may not hear from them except for Twice a year, but it doesn't matter. Because as long as someone is pouring into how to activate our fundraising, it's going to be helpful.
• 15:41
  Jonathan McCoy: I love that.
• 15:41
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, this next one is really, I would call it bragging on your team and on the accomplishments that you see as the organization. You know, we really believe that the board should not just be this hidden group that the that your team and your staff are not getting to activate alongside. So by equipping them with huge wins of the team sharing success points, it breeds confidence in your team. But it also allows these connection points for them to reach out and have these kind of meaningful moments with the people on your team when they have great successes, that leads to lifting the sales of all which is just a good thing.
• 16:14
  Becky Endicott: I know, can you imagine if you had gotten an email from a board member who was responding to your executive saying, hey, board, I just want to celebrate this great win that john had with x campaign, we raised blah, blah, you imagine if your board member responded to that email saying Way to go, john, what that means for you, your ship,
• 16:34
  Jonathan McCoy: you know, it's not trying to take all the credit, it's allowing your team to step in and receive that credit, totally
• 16:40
  Becky Endicott: love it, okay?
• 16:40
  Becky Endicott: The other one is include prospecting as a portion of every board meeting. So your major gift team, and probably even your mid level campaign team are always talking about prospects, they're always trying to move the needle on how they're getting someone engaged and cultivated in this relationship with the organization. If they get stuck, if they're looking for a way to get a door open, bring that name to the board meeting, bring three or four of them and say, you know, we're really trying to advance this proposal, this idea, does anyone know x? The worst they can say is no. And how amazing if someone says, Oh, actually, I played tennis with them on Tuesdays, or Oh, we're also on the southern nonprofit board. What is seamless, natural extension of our mission. And that person can go in with their own bent of why they love the organization, what an authentic way to connect. So please use prospecting in your board meeting.
• 17:33
  Jonathan McCoy: So good. We're, you know, we've been threading these conversations between the back to basics. But if you remember our major gifts discussion and our most recent donor relations when is using board members in these specific ways, take them on solicitation calls with you, if they've got this incredible relationship with a member of the community.
• 17:51
  Jonathan McCoy: Absolutely bring them alongside they can provide validity they can provide almost like social proof and belief in the mission or the cause that you're raising four. And then secondly, use them as a resource for an unique stewardship. touchpoint. You know, we talked about this in the donor relations episode, as you're looking for unique ways to create these touch points with donors, absolutely leverage your board, and they'll enjoy the process, too.
• 18:13
  Becky Endicott: I agree. Okay, number six, is probably my favorite one, because it's what I love to do, which is sit down with each of your board members, and basically have a heart to heart fireside chat with them. I mean, do you know the story of why you're a board member is connected to your mission? Do you understand where their passion, their specific passion for your mission lies? I think if you would take the time to individually sit down with every single board member and ask them why they love your mission, you are going to get insight like you cannot imagine into their heart into their purpose and where they want to direct those gifts. And it's just a nice opportunity to sit down and get background on their business background on their family, what's going on in their life, what are the things they're worried about. And I just think that that right there is not only going to strengthen the relationship between you and this individual, but it's going to foster just a more entrenched relationship that they have with you and with the organization.
• 19:11
  Becky Endicott: And I think
• 19:13
  Jonathan McCoy: whoever you're most intimidated by go into that meeting, because after that, you are going to see them as a person and not as like this intimidating force. So I love that strategy. And you'll have so many connection points afterward. And then because of those connection points, you think of birthdays or special events in their life, add those to your calendar as a quick email or a quick text is going to further just create this connectivity with you and your board members. So that's kind of the weird for good art constantly
• 19:40
  Becky Endicott: or for good arc.
• 19:40
  Becky Endicott: And I just think that it is a way to show up authentically, it's a way to see every one of your board members beyond just being a figurehead. It's really about activating them for good for your mission. So we talked a little bit about crystal cherry and we love crystal she her company is the board pro and she does nothing but work with nonprofit boards. And she gave some really incredible steps to build a more engaged board and we are going to tick through those really quickly. So number one, know who your board members are. If you don't know, go back to that last number six step and sit down with them and get to know them. The next one is Don't miss the onboarding process. And this is so huge. This is for any role that you're onboarding but provide a job description, give them a timeline, give them an outline of what the obligations are, etc. But also you want to give a background of Your mission and your vision and how did you arrive at that so
• 20:36
  Jonathan McCoy: they can understand and speak into it from a board perspective really well, someone,
• 20:41
  Becky Endicott: Okay, number three, include board members in your work and make it easy for them to engage. If you have an event, if you're going to a luncheon, invite a board member with you, if you're going out on a call, take a board member with you, you are strengthened by showing that you have a community of support behind you that is not directly connected to your organization. The must have
• 21:02
  Jonathan McCoy: accessory, this whole
• 21:04
  Becky Endicott: black dress of nonprofit.
• 21:08
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, number four, man, I feel like we're just piling on all these things board members should do. So this one's key. Thank them profusely.
• 21:13
  Jonathan McCoy: My gosh, yeah. show your appreciation show that you remember that they are here on their own accord. And just tell them thank you and find new creative ways to do that.
• 21:24
  Becky Endicott: I believe that is a core value of our company's steward relentlessly. I mean, your board members could be some of your most rabid fans.
• 21:30
  Becky Endicott: Typically, they're not like the most out loud members, but they could have been around for forever. So yes, thank them all the time. Okay, number five, my favorite one of this group, circle back and celebrate Celebrate impact through story.
• 21:45
  Becky Endicott: So never, ever have a meeting, have a have a board retreat without bringing in a testimonial of someone who is impacted by your mission. And you'll notice I did not say a program that was implemented, I'm talking about a human being who is impacted by the fact that you existed as a nonprofit and showed up to serve because that will always bring it back to the heart of worship will be the heart of your mission. Okay,
• 22:15
  Jonathan McCoy: and the last tip that crystal shared is include term limits. Oh
• 22:18
  Becky Endicott: my gosh, you're on my soapbox.
• 22:20
  Jonathan McCoy: No, there's a reason why this one was handed to me to say is Becky's about to get on our soapbox on this. But what I would say is that this is not their child, you know, this is not an obligation that just never ends. This is, this is a term that they're spending and investing in your organization.
• 22:37
  Jonathan McCoy: So it's a good thing for the board member. And it's a really good thing for you too.
• 22:40
  Becky Endicott: It is. And I just have to say I can think back. And I'm wondering how many people that are listening right now are picturing the board member who has become a fixture for the organization, because they have sat on the board forever. I think the kind thing to do, honestly, is to bless and release them. Because if we are someone that are We are committed to diversifying our boards, and that just doesn't mean diversity of, of our races.
• 23:04
  Becky Endicott: It's also diversity of genders.
• 23:10
  Becky Endicott: It's our cognitive diversity of our thoughts. We need new influencers, and we need new perspectives to come on the board. And if you don't have term limits in your bylaws, then you are really missing out on getting that new creative energy onto the board. Okay, so love all of crystals advice on those tips and love to step into this next part of the conversation where we really look at assessing your current boards diversity. And you know, we're not just talking about one lens of diversity here to something we talk about a lot on the podcast is cognitive diversity.
• 23:38
  Becky Endicott: Do you have different schools of thought being represented? Do you have different beliefs being represented? Do you is your community actively represented on your board? Because if not, you're going to have just like this Yes, board, that's not going to really wrestle through the harder things and the harder decisions about how are we staying on course, and where's our strategic vision headed?
• 24:01
  Jonathan McCoy: And so you really want that representation.
• 24:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And so there's a lot of ways to unpack this, we have a few questions that we wanted to kind of pitch to you to ask yourself.
• 24:09
  Becky Endicott: So this is how to assess your current boards diversity, number one, who is on your board? Number two, do you have women on your board? Number three, do you have diversity within your board? Checking in?
• 24:20
  Becky Endicott: How are we doing? Are you saying yes to any of these? Are you saying no to any of these?
• 24:26
  Becky Endicott: That's really going to set the tone? Number four, is there someone on your board that can personally speak into your mission? I remember crystal talking about this and saying she worked at a nonprofit that focused on homelessness, and they literally had someone on their board who had experienced homelessness at one point in their life, and that is powerful
• 24:45
  Jonathan McCoy: employees that lived experience. Absolutely.
• 24:48
  Jonathan McCoy: That that you really need to have representative.
• 24:50
  Becky Endicott: Number five, what are your needs as an organization? And are they being met by your current current board? I think that one's going to be a hard one. And the last one is number six, who has been on the board for 15 years, or I would say which feels like 100 years. Look at how you can bring new energy into the board and I will not get back on my soapbox on term limits. So there you go.
• 25:10
  Becky Endicott: quick assessment that you can start there if you're looking at diversifying your board.
• 25:16
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, as we start to land this plane on board, there's a few things that you just don't want to mess up in the board world. And so this great list by charity lawyer is a resource that we just love.
• 25:27
  Becky Endicott: I know Ellis Carter your crate. We need to have Alice on the podcast because she really did write it down. We're rushing. We are
• 25:33
  Jonathan McCoy: coming recruit you LS but she put together her top 15 nonprofit board governance mistakes, and we just want to lift a few of these, but we'll include the full list in the show notes. One of them is micromanaging staff.
• 25:45
  Becky Endicott: There's a reason we put this one number one is that not just the worst is they're not there to manage. I
• 25:51
  Jonathan McCoy: mean, this is a whole nother soapbox, they're there to set the strategic vision and make sure that we're aligned with that at a high level. But they're not there to micromanage the staff or even get into the debate of why did you use this color napkin at the event? Please don't go there
• 26:06
  Becky Endicott: sound like you're speaking from experience, but I will not double click on that. Okay, another one is airing disagreements outside the boardroom. How many times has something contentious happened in our board meetings, and then you have someone from outside of that meeting come up to you and say, Oh, I saw x board member at a cocktail party, they were telling me x, it's like, we need to be so clear about the confidentiality of what goes on in those board meetings and keeping it within the family, especially as we're taking minutes and trying to keep those conversations so tight.
• 26:39
  Jonathan McCoy: So true. Okay, the next one is failure to cultivate board diversity. So we're talking about it again, but truly, especially institutions or organizations that have been around a long time, you really need to step into this with an open lens to what does your board really look like? And how can you actively fill it and create a more diverse group of people to represent your organization?
• 27:00
  Becky Endicott: Oh, I'm here for that. And the last one that we're going to highlight is recruiting and selecting board members without due care. So if you're willy nilly just shooting an email to your executive director saying, person x in our community needs to come on our board, and they say, yes, they have not been vetted. You know, we need to make sure that as we're recruiting board members, we have a sit down with them beforehand, we understand their heart, we understand their motivations, we understand their connectivity to our organization, it needs to be a perfect match. So I want you to step back, and not think about taking everyone that comes to you. But you are literally like the bachelor standing with a rose and are we going to give our rows to our board member, make sure they are worthy of that rose.
• 27:47
  Jonathan McCoy: I love it. And I see people driving off in the limo just crying because they didn't get that.
• 27:52
  Becky Endicott: That would be my dream. That's how badly people want to come work on our nonprofit boards so that we have another great freebie for you guys. That's a complete guide to board meeting agendas that we're going to drop into the show notes. So if you're needing some templates about what should the flow of our board meeting be, we're gonna hook you up and that'll be a great freebie that you can use today.
• 28:13
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so we did it. And I feel really excited about boards.
• 28:16
  Becky Endicott: I love boards.
• 28:16
  Becky Endicott: They are such an untapped potential. And I just think a little more engagement, a lot more love is really going to be able to help you do more for your mission.
• 28:26
  Jonathan McCoy: So cast some big vision for this. Don't just check the box. You've got this.
• 28:31
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 28:33
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• 29:04
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy bourse boom