Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #107: Interview with Ann Chiappetta, Author, Poet and President of Friends in Art

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #107: Interview with Ann Chiappetta, Author, Poet and President of Friends in Art · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

• 0:12
  Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jordan, LLBAP and MBA invites you to listen to her
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  biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary.
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  Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
• 0:27
  insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
• 0:31
  Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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  especially kids with disabilities.
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  Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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  dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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  law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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  She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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  skills, and expertise in access, technology and information.
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  As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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  she just wants to make things better than possible.
• 1:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of The Remarkable World Commentary.
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  I'm Donna J. Jordan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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  through sound, through touch, and through stubborn optimism.
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  I am a law graduate and accessibility consultant.
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  I am an author of several books and a lifelong barrier buster who also happens to
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  be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments,
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  as in November of 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced
• 1:50
  the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian,
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  not just his assaulted ones.
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  And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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  disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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  And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late
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  Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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  When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio,
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  you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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  producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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  gadgets talk back in real language.
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  Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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  everyday practice. I invite you now to think of this show as your shared workbench,
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  where policy meets live experience and live experience sparks fresh ideas.
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  Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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  let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is every bit as
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  remarkable as the world that we are trying to change.
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  And welcome to my Remarkable World Commentary podcast.
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  I am pleased and I'm privileged to have you with us.
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  I've heard a lot about you and now we get to meet.
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  So welcome.
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  Ann Chiappetta: Thank you very much for having me on today.
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  I look forward to our conversation.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? All right. So and let's start with this question.
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  I want to begin in 1993.
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  You were just 28 years old and you were expecting your first child,
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  and you were told that you had retinitis pigmentosa and you would be legally blind.
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  I have been blind since birth, so I have never had to grieve a way of seeing
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  the world. But you did.
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  And you did it while becoming a mother.
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  Please take us back to that year.
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  What did that diagnosis take from you and what did it eventually hand you that you
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  never, ever expected?
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  Ann Chiappetta: Well, When I was first diagnosed, it.
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  It changed my world forever and I didn't know what to expect.
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  I was scared and, you know, I I didn't know how to explain what was going
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  on to myself, let alone my family.
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  And I ended up losing my job because I couldn't see well enough.
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  Eventually I had to just leave that job.
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  My husband was deployed on and off, so I was a lot of times just by myself,
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  it was me, my kid. And if it wasn't for my mother in law and father in law,
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  just helping out when I needed to go somewhere or something, I probably would have
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  been way more isolated, but I was depressed and didn't know it.
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  The, but I did have these people in my life who came and helped me and I call them my
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  angels because the first one was my my ophthalmologist.
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  He was the one who got me in touch with blind services where I lived.
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  And then my rehab counselor, she was another angel in my life.
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  And the things I didn't expect was I didn't expect to go back to school post blindness.
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  I didn't expect to earn my master's degree.
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  Post blindness. I didn't expect to dive into the parts of myself that I didn't know.
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  I had to be able to just not take no for an answer.
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  Like I, I. So if I was going to go blind, I was going to learn how to do it.
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  And at some point, you know, being scared and afraid went to the bottom of
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  the list and the top of the list was, I have to do this for me and my children.
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  And that's what I learned.
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  I learned, I had resiliency, I learned I could do things I didn't think I
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  could. So that's what I learned.
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  In the beginning at least.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: A truly remarkable story.
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  And I do thank you for sharing this.
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  And I could hear it in your voice as well.
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  I mean, yes, I could feel your pain.
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  I, like I said, I, I never knew I knew another world in a different way,
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  but not, not like you did.
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  And my goodness. Something I find remarkable about your story is that it has three
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  distinct creative lives in it.
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  Before you lost your sight.
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  You were designing an acrylic display.
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  You were designing acrylic displays and furniture.
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  Then when you could no longer see your own drawing,
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  you turned to writing.
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  And a decade later you came back to visual art.
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  Walk our listeners through those terms.
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  What made you put the pencil down and pick up the words right?
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  Or pick up the words up?
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  And how did you make peace with that trade?
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  Ann Chiappetta: Well, I was always a creative person as a kid.
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  I loved art and music and photography and writing and singing and dancing.
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  So I was very creative kid.
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  So I did write all, you know, I wrote, you know,
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  I wrote poetry in school and, you know, did some acting and things like
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  that. But when, when I, when I got into the acrylic furniture design
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  I didn't realize I could, I could make a living out of it and I did.
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  So that was, that was a gift.
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  Yeah. And then when I realized I wasn't going to be able to do that anymore,
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  in a way, you know that that I thought I could do it.
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  I started writing more and and the writing became a catharsis,
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  a catharsis for me. All of my, all of my thoughts about my self-worth and
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  going blind and the not knowing all of that came out in my poetry.
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  And if I didn't have that way to to create I think I would have probably suffered
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  more, you know, in terms of my mental health,
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  but I was able to, to put all of that in my poetry and my writing.
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  And you know, then people liked it.
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  Like I took another chance and someone said, well,
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  why don't you try to, you know, put it in, you know,
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  get it in a journal or something.
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  So I did that and, and it worked.
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  I was like, well, you, you know, I was shocked that people wanted to
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  put my writing in a journal.
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  I was shocked. But then yeah, but that was that was like the beginning of
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  that life for me. Like that, that creative spark that kept me
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  seeking more.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This just simply blows me away.
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  Like, you know, like you were 28 years old.
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  You you received this, this, this devastating news.
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  And you don't, you don't give up.
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  You keep on going. And you're here today to tell this story.
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  And, you know, I think many, many listeners would love to take your story
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  of inspiration and make it a story of inspiration.
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  I mean, you have written something that I wish that every person in this field would
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  hear, and it is very simple.
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  You do not want to be called the blind lady.
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  I have said I have a name and my name is Ann.
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  You also spent about ten years delivering a disability awareness program called
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  Building Bridges to Children in kindergarten through second grade,
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  which is exactly where I believe this work has to start.
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  What do did most children understand immediately that the other other that the
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  adults around them have to unlearn?
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  Ann Chiappetta: So when they when I first got approached to do this program,
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  I was like, I don't know.
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  I, I, I don't know, but then I was invited to just watch some of these other people who
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  people in wheelchairs who use wheelchairs, people who were deaf,
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  people who had CP, but they were looking for someone who was blind to to join their cadre.
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  And so I went. And then I realized, I want to do this,
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  I want, I want to do this.
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  So you know, I think the adults have to unlearn things.
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  And the kids, the kids are fresh, they're new,
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  they're blank slates. They, they, you know, they see me walk in with my
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  guide dog. They're like, oh, you know, you know,
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  what is, and then, you know, they're chit chatting around and,
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  you know, they tell me. And so we finally get them settled down and their questions are
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  great. And they're so attentive, so attentive,
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  these little kids that people say children have only ten minutes,
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  you know, to get their attention and keep them there. They're there for 45 minutes or
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  an hour, just watching and listening and asking questions.
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  And so the payoff for me is when I go into a supermarket or into a store or
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  a movie theater. I have, you know, I often hear a child say mommy,
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  mommy or dad or whatever.
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  That's that's a guide dog.
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  You're not supposed to touch it.
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  You're not supposed to do anything to it.
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  Just leave it alone. And when I hear that, that is the payoff of all that educating
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  children to educate their parents.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So isn't it awesome that it is the kids who educate the parents?
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  So there's such innocent little guys?
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  Yes, there are sponges that know everything.
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  It's marvelous to hear that, you know.
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  Absolutely marvelous.
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  Ann Chiappetta: Yeah, it's really cool.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. For some nine years, you were a readjustment counselor
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  therapist at the White Plains Center sitting with combat veterans and their
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  families. And you have said that you were the only blind counselor among 3000
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  people in the readjustment program.
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  Tell our listeners, what did that work was?
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  What was that work? What was that work like?
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  And be honest with us.
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  What did your blindness bring into that counseling room that Assited therapists could
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  not have brought?
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  Ann Chiappetta: Oh, well, let's see. So I think go to your the,
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  what you just said about what did I bring to the counseling?
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  The counseling of veterans and their families that are cited.
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  Counselor couldn't is that I couldn't see people,
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  so they tended to disclose with me more, probably sooner and with less fear or anxiety
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  because I couldn't see them.
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  And, and I often got to places and in people's disclosing that maybe other
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  counselors wouldn't get to as quickly.
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  I can't prove that there's no data for that, but that's just,
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  that's how I felt. You know, with, you know,
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  after doing it for so long.
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  And the other thing about being a counselor with a guide dog is that it seemed to put
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  people at ease as soon as they walked in to my to my room,
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  my dog would go and greet them and then go lay down and ignore them.
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  And they were like, oh, okay.
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  So so for them, it put a lot of people at ease.
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  And then there were other people who would often rely on my guide dog to help ease
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  their, their nervousness or anxiety while we were in session.
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  Which I allowed because it was like a natural thing.
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  I didn't push it. I didn't make it not happen.
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  If it happened, I let it happen.
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  Like if it was, if it was appropriate.
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  So those are the two things I brought into the counseling room that no other sighted
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  counselor could, could bring.
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  And the other part about this is that being being in a,
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  in a big federal system and having a visual disability.
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  There were a lot of challenges a lot all around accessibility or the lack of it all
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  about people's lack of awareness or disinterest in bringing me the tools that I
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  needed. And it was a struggle all the time to be in a constant state state of catching up
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  to everybody else. And, you know, it was, it was hard,
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  it was really hard to be a counselor and have to be,
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  feel like I was behind on everything because everything took me so much longer than
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  everybody else. Every, you know, and I'm talking about the
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  reporting, you know, all of our all of our tools and measurements that we have to put in
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  the computer, all that stuff, you know, it, it was just not the way it
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  should be. And I, and I hope it improves for other councillors with disabilities because
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  we can bring things into that counselling room that people without
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  disabilities just can't do.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So were you one of the first ones?
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  Vision impaired persons?
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  Ann Chiappetta: No, there were there were other visually impaired people in this.
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  I knew a a psychologist who worked for the VA for years.
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  She was actually one of my, my like mentors.
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  I actually contacted her.
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  I was like, can I do this job?
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  And she's like, of course you can. So she was,
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  you know, so so that was and there were sporadically all over.
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  Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's counselors there who,
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  you know, are legally blind.
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  My former director was probably legally blind.
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  But you know, he, he was only partially sighted,
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  but he had special glasses and all that stuff.
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  So, you know, I'm sure there was a you know you know,
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  spattering of people with visual impairments.
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  But definitely it's, it's difficult in any big system to be an employee with a
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  disability. You just have extra challenges and extra things.
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  I mean, I just think about, you know, the transportation back and forth
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  to work, you know I couldn't be sporadic about things.
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  I couldn't be called in at the last minute.
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  I, you know, I had my limitations.
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  So so, you know, it's, it's a give and take.
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  But I learned so much there about myself, about other people,
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  about how my, my guide dog could, could be you know,
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  like an impetus to something better in terms of counseling.
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  Right. You know, another tool.
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  So so many things.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What kind of dog did you have?
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  Ann Chiappetta: Well, my first dog was a black lab, and then I in in between my the dog that
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  excuse me that I had when I retired from the VA was a big yellow Labrador named Bailey.
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  And I have wrote a book about my dogs.
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  So I have a memoir out there.
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  So. You know.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You are just an inspiration.
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  And I hope people are listening and paying attention like God,
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  you know, like, oh, all right.
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  So before you could practice, you had to fight simply to sit the
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  licensing examination with accommodations.
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  Okay. A fight that took you three years and that had you writing to the president of the
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  American Association for marriage and family therapy,
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  and to the New York State Regulatory Board.
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  As someone who has spent a good part of my own life in exactly that kind of fight,
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  I would like our listeners to hear what it actually cost.
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  What did those three years take out of you and what finally moved them?
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  Ann Chiappetta: Well, well, first of all, it's a long time ago.
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  It was, it was, you know, a long time ago in a galaxy far,
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  far away and struggled to get her MFT.
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  Yes. But so I was new at the VA at the time.
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  I was still, you know, learning about, you know,
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  everything in terms of, you know, my employment status and,
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  you know, all these things learning about, you know, so much.
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  So when I started to apply for my you know, to,
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  to, for my to, to take my test at first they,
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  the only thing they said was, well, we can give it to you in large print.
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  I'm like, well, that's not going to work for me. No.
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  And so that was the first year of fighting them.
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  The second year of fighting them.
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  I I asked, you know, the American, the a MFT to help me out and they didn't help
• 22:11
  me out very much. They, they honestly, I think they passed the buck
• 22:14
  on it a bit. And they said they, there was excuses.
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  They didn't have the equipment, they didn't know what jaws was.
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  They they could all they could offer it in Braille.
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  I said, but I am not a Braille reader.
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  That is not in the, in the format that I'm most accustomed with.
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  And that would be a barrier for me.
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  And that took another year.
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  And then in the third year in the third year,
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  the, the former director of the state education,
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  whatever, whoever was in charge of the the testing accommodations or whatever,
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  she retired and somebody took over and he actually called me and he said,
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  I'm seeing all of these, this correspondence you had.
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  And he said, I am so sorry that you went through that.
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  What can we do to make it better for you?
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  And yeah, and so he did.
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  He made it better. And I took the test and I failed,
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  but it was almost five years later.
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  Right? So I was like, oh.
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  And then I took it again and I failed again.
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  And by then I was like, that's it.
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  I'm done. I just I did not have the emotional resilience to go through all of that again
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  and then possibly fail a third time, and then that would be it.
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  I wouldn't be able to reapply for years after that.
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  So. Right, right. I, I, I just, I couldn't do it.
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  And for a long time, it really, it really got me down.
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  And then I realized, you know what I, I'm, I can't be,
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  I can't allow myself to identify myself with failure about something like that when I did
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  so much good, so much, so many other places in my life.
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  So I came to terms with it.
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  But it took a long time.
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  And it was hard. Really hard.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I know what it's like because I'm presently going through the cyber security exam with
• 24:21
  comp, Tia and Pearson and others.
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  And yeah, it's not easy.
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  And if you don't have the emotional strength after doing it twice,
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  who's going to blame you for saying no?
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  No more? I mean, that's where I'm at right now.
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  I totally understand what you're telling me.
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  Ann Chiappetta: Well, it is a tough thing.
• 24:44
  It's a tough thing. Because you have to you have to be able to get past it.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You have to.
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  Ann Chiappetta: Put it in a healthy place.
• 24:51
  So. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I know you're going to have people every now and then saying,
• 24:55
  why is she putting herself through this?
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  Ann Chiappetta: That's what I kept asking myself.
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  Why am I doing this?
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: We do it for our kids of the future.
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  In my in my personal opinion, we have to do it for our kids.
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  We have to show them that you must not give up.
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  You can't. But then again, it emotionally.
• 25:19
  Yeah. Yeah. Now, you trained in marriage and family therapy at I sorry,
• 25:29
  I own it. And you have said that counselor training taught you how to listen,
• 25:37
  how to remember, and how to break a conversation down into its parts.
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  Now, you have written novels.
• 25:49
  How much of the therapist is sitting there when you build a character,
• 25:57
  and can you always tell where the counselor stops and where the novelist begins?
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  Ann Chiappetta: So this is a great question.
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  So first of all I think having had all that training allows me to delve into personality
• 26:18
  traits the psychology of characters and things like that,
• 26:24
  that that are very beneficial to writing fiction.
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  And I'm very, very much aware of that.
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  However, you know, when you're writing fiction,
• 26:38
  you can't write it dry, you're not doing reporting.
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  You need to allow yourself to fly your creativity,
• 26:45
  your imagination, your your seeking, your curiosity.
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  So that's, that's also part of writing.
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  If you can get those two parts together and kind of work together,
• 26:58
  then it's, it's super cool.
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  And especially when I write poetry, when I write poetry,
• 27:07
  I'm writing it first and foremost, as a person who cannot see,
• 27:13
  but you don't know that when you read my poetry,
• 27:16
  you don't know that I can't see because I present other aspects of the,
• 27:22
  the whole person or the sensory to, to you.
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  Once in a while I might want to disclose that in a poem or something,
• 27:29
  but usually I don't. And the same thing with my fiction.
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  So, you know, like the, so all of me is there in some way or shape or
• 27:39
  form. And I don't necessarily even, I'm not even aware anymore.
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  Like where one part of my training, you know,
• 27:49
  forms over into, into my creativity.
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  It's just, it's just a whole thing that I do together,
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  all in one, all in one big thing.
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  So but I'm glad I had my training.
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  I'm, I'm glad I went to college.
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  I'm glad I pursued what I wanted.
• 28:06
  I'm glad I did what I did, and I wouldn't do it over.
• 28:11
  But I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change
• 28:14
  anything. That's what I mean.
• 28:16
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. But did you purposely not disclose that you were,
• 28:23
  you know, blind or it just came naturally to you.
• 28:27
  You know, the flow of everything.
• 28:31
  Ann Chiappetta: It's interesting. Some of these poetry, I belong to a poetry group and we do a
• 28:36
  generative workshop. We get 6 or 8 of us together,
• 28:39
  and we all share poetry and we focus on something.
• 28:43
  And sometimes I just close to these people we meet over Zoom.
• 28:47
  Sometimes I say right at first I'm blind, sometimes I don't.
• 28:51
  And it's interesting how people handle it, you know,
• 28:57
  like I don't, I don't automatically come and say, oh, yeah, I don't,
• 29:01
  I, you know, maybe the second or the third time we meet,
• 29:03
  I might say something in response to another of the poets because they point something out
• 29:09
  that indirectly or directly affects my poem.
• 29:14
  And then, and then I tell them I don't, I don't like coming out like all that,
• 29:19
  like I don't like that. I don't think it's I don't know.
• 29:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But are people surprised when you say that you are blind?
• 29:28
  Yes they are. Ha. Good.
• 29:31
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes. Yes they are. They're like, oh, how do you do this?
• 29:35
  And how do you do that?
• 29:36
  What do you do? Because like sometimes I'll read one of the poems you know,
• 29:41
  like we read other people's poetry.
• 29:43
  Sometimes we read, you know, whatever.
• 29:45
  And I can get things done on my computer.
• 29:48
  I have, you know, I'm pretty accomplished that way.
• 29:50
  I like technology and it helps me.
• 29:54
  And sometimes they're surprised I can do what I do.
• 29:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: They always are. But, you know, I'm wondering whether poetry
• 30:04
  written by someone with who had, who started out with no vision is different
• 30:09
  from someone like yourself who had vision and now you're into another world.
• 30:14
  Do you think it makes a difference?
• 30:17
  Ann Chiappetta: No, I think your creative, your creativity is your creativity.
• 30:23
  And I know other poets who have been blind from birth and their poetry is beautiful.
• 30:30
  Nothing lacking in it.
• 30:31
  It's just wonderful. So.
• 30:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, so your first book what is it called?
• 30:44
  Up welling. Is that the name of it?
• 30:47
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes.
• 30:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Upwelling. What a very unique title.
• 30:54
  This did not happen. Not because of the writing,
• 30:59
  because the desktop publishing tools that you needed were not accessible to a screen
• 31:07
  reader. I think that a great many people listening assume that self-publishing is the
• 31:16
  accessible option. What did you run into and how did you get around it?
• 31:24
  And what should a blind author know before they start down that road?
• 31:33
  Ann Chiappetta: So this was in 2016. I think we're in 2026 now.
• 31:38
  I think we've made some great inroads in accessibility in terms of desktop publishing
• 31:44
  and technology. But back in 2016, it wasn't quite the way I thought it would
• 31:52
  be. The, the, I mean, I could use my tools on my computer,
• 31:58
  like Microsoft Word and that kind of thing.
• 32:01
  But when I went out of that out of that out of the Microsoft realm and started to try to
• 32:11
  go to a formatting to Formatting things and, you know,
• 32:18
  in like Adobe, things like that.
• 32:20
  Not accessible at all.
• 32:22
  And I could not I could not format it for desktop publishing.
• 32:26
  And I kept asking for favors from people and they were like,
• 32:30
  oh yeah, we'll do it for you.
• 32:32
  And that never worked.
• 32:33
  And you know, it was like six months went by,
• 32:37
  eight months went by and like, I really want to get this done.
• 32:43
  You know, I, and I know I have a good manuscript.
• 32:46
  I've had people tell me that and I've had, you know,
• 32:51
  I went to traditional route.
• 32:53
  I tried to get this, you know, post published through journals,
• 32:57
  poetry journals, but they all denied me.
• 33:01
  They said, no, it's not.
• 33:02
  And, you know, whatever.
• 33:04
  I mean, you got to have a thick skin when you're a writer or an artist.
• 33:07
  So I was like I was just frustrated more than anything else.
• 33:10
  And then I, I, I said, okay, I'm going to go back and read books on
• 33:17
  the National Library Services Board service.
• 33:20
  I'm going to go read some books by other blind authors and see what they have to say
• 33:25
  about how they got published.
• 33:27
  So I did that and I found an email address at the back of this other author's book.
• 33:37
  And I emailed them and they got back to me right away and said,
• 33:40
  yes, we, yeah, we publish independently published books.
• 33:45
  We'll help you out. We're a book preparation service with editing and they're called DLD
• 33:51
  books.com. And they've been my editors and publishers ever since.
• 33:57
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. I wish I knew all this when I wrote my books.
• 34:01
  Ann Chiappetta: I wish I did, too. I mean, I had to go through this.
• 34:04
  Oh, this was so frustrating.
• 34:06
  I really felt like there was no help in the world for me at the time.
• 34:10
  And then suddenly I was like, oh, look what I found.
• 34:13
  So that's not giving up, right?
• 34:16
  We talked about not giving up.
• 34:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, we can't give up. But like in my day, I wrote a bunch of books on top 12 Discovered
• 34:23
  Untapped Wealth and Secrets to Financial Success.
• 34:26
  But I, I went through the Booksurge publishing company on AuthorHouse and,
• 34:33
  and after a while I just said, you know what?
• 34:35
  I'm going to go to a different route, but I,
• 34:37
  you know, you cannot give up.
• 34:38
  You must keep on fighting.
• 34:41
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes.
• 34:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. I mean, what else can I say?
• 34:50
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes. And the other thing is, is, you know, don't be afraid to ask other
• 34:54
  authors what they do or how they do things.
• 34:57
  You know, there's a huge networking opportunities out there to avail yourselves
• 35:03
  of and you build on that and, you know, your first book might be a big
• 35:09
  struggle, but you know, your second book might be easier.
• 35:12
  Your third book might even be easier than that.
• 35:15
  And then before you know it, you've got it.
• 35:17
  You've got a system. You've got the people you know you can go to to help.
• 35:22
  And that's what I found that more than anything else is I learned so much about
• 35:28
  just, you know, just independent publishing what that means,
• 35:33
  how it affects me as a person, you know and all these other wonderful people
• 35:39
  that I've met. That's just great.
• 35:42
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can hear it in your voice.
• 35:46
  Now you work across four different platforms,
• 35:50
  and there are not many blind authors doing all four poetry,
• 35:57
  memoir, short fiction, and novels.
• 36:02
  And your short story appeared in The Artificial Divide.
• 36:07
  And this is an Anthology written entirely by blind and visually impaired authors.
• 36:17
  And this past May, you featured as a poet at the Greater Pittsburgh Festival of
• 36:27
  Books. Do those four forms come from the same place inside of you,
• 36:34
  or does each one ask for different kind of attention?
• 36:43
  Ann Chiappetta: Wow. So yeah, they do ask for different types of attention.
• 36:48
  I have to be in the right state of mind to pursue poetry or or short fiction or even
• 36:57
  even my creative nonfiction, you know, writing essays or blog posts.
• 37:02
  I've learned to switch my brain pretty quickly between them.
• 37:06
  Didn't always be like, it wasn't always like that.
• 37:09
  Like I would struggle switching from one to the other.
• 37:14
  And, you know, some people just can't do that.
• 37:17
  They, they stick in their genre and that's it.
• 37:19
  They love reading other genres, but they wouldn't write in other genres.
• 37:23
  But I mean, I, I like to do everything.
• 37:28
  Wow. Yeah, I just, I'm like, well, you know,
• 37:32
  maybe this, this week, I'll, I'll finish that short story and send
• 37:35
  it off for editing. And then I'll send a couple of poems to my poetry editor.
• 37:39
  And then it just, I don't know, I just don't,
• 37:43
  I don't think about it.
• 37:44
  I don't I don't have expectations with it.
• 37:50
  I, I just listen to what my creativity tells me and what my instincts tell me,
• 37:56
  and I just go with it.
• 38:00
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I would love our listeners to understand how you physically make a book.
• 38:07
  Okay. You compose using text to speech, then you will listen to your own words as you
• 38:16
  type them. You have said that this helps you,
• 38:21
  you know, to write prose and poems that sound good and read aloud.
• 38:28
  Tell us about that. Has writing, you know, by ear changed the actual shape of
• 38:37
  your senses?
• 38:41
  Ann Chiappetta: So yes, the the answer to that is yes.
• 38:44
  I when I, when I use my computer and I use text to speech and,
• 38:51
  you know, types and I hear it eventually when,
• 38:57
  when I go back and I go to have it read all in one shot,
• 39:03
  not, you know, so like, you know, the whole page or something,
• 39:07
  I will know from the way things sound, whether it's balanced or whether there's an
• 39:13
  awkward sentence or let's face it, we all have typos.
• 39:18
  You know, those are also something, right?
• 39:20
  Yeah. You know, I just know, by the way, the cadence of the words and
• 39:24
  everything after doing this for so long, you,
• 39:27
  you have an ear for it.
• 39:28
  Just like you had to learn to have an ear for a screen reading software program like jaws.
• 39:34
  When you first, when you first lose your vision and you've got to learn those tools
• 39:40
  it's the same thing. So, so I've trained my ear to,
• 39:45
  to listen. And the same thing with poetry.
• 39:47
  If my poetry, let's say I write a poem like a five stanza poem and I let jaws read it for
• 39:55
  me all in one shot. And it sounds like it sounds like didn't I know if I read it out
• 40:02
  loud? It's also going to sound.
• 40:05
  I'm also going to stumble on things, or that line might be too long or that meter
• 40:11
  might not be right. So if my screen reading equipment is telling me,
• 40:16
  oh, you know, maybe, maybe it doesn't sound so good,
• 40:19
  then when I go to perform it or someone else is going to read it,
• 40:25
  they're going to also most likely go something's.
• 40:30
  Yeah. So yeah. So, so that's, that's how I do self evaluations in my
• 40:39
  writing and my editing and, and my content, you know and that's just,
• 40:47
  you know, that takes time.
• 40:48
  Just like anything else, you know, you want to put yourself in there
• 40:53
  and have a quality product, you've got to put the work in.
• 40:56
  So, and all my technology helps me do that and I love it.
• 41:02
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can tell in your voice you really love it.
• 41:05
  Ann Chiappetta: I do.
• 41:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. The clock is ticking down, but I wanted to squeeze this question in for
• 41:12
  you. Follow your dog is a story of love and love and trust.
• 41:18
  And this was picked up for professional audio production through the National Library
• 41:26
  Service and Perkins, where put it into the hands of readers who could never have picked
• 41:35
  it off of a shelf. You have also wrote the introduction to Guide Dog Users
• 41:44
  Handbook for people considering their very first writer and guide dog users honored you
• 41:53
  with its Lee Berger.
• 41:55
  Is that the way? Sorry.
• 41:57
  Ann Chiappetta: Lee. Berg. Metz.
• 41:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Lee. Berg. Metz. Media Award for exactly that kind of work.
• 42:06
  What did you most want her?
• 42:10
  A prospective handler to understand.
• 42:13
  Something you wish that somebody had told you
• 42:17
  before. Veronica.
• 42:20
  Ann Chiappetta: Verona.
• 42:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Verona. I'm sorry.
• 42:23
  Ann Chiappetta: That's okay. Well
• 42:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, that's a nice name. I like that Verona girl.
• 42:34
  Ann Chiappetta: I think what the hardest part about training with a guide dog is not giving up.
• 42:44
  And, and that there are going to be times where you're going to want to just go,
• 42:47
  why did I even do this?
• 42:50
  And when the beginning of training, it is tough.
• 42:52
  It's probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life as a person who is blind.
• 42:57
  But it's the best thing ever.
• 43:02
  If you, you know, if you can't see and you get a guide dog,
• 43:06
  it's it's like seeing again.
• 43:08
  That's all I can say. It is.
• 43:11
  It is, it's just beautiful.
• 43:14
  But it's, it's a hard one thing to do and to keep,
• 43:17
  you know, it. I've had three dogs now, and each one of them has had my challenges
• 43:23
  with them at first. And then I just, we just keep on working at it.
• 43:27
  And you get to a place where it's just beautiful and you know,
• 43:32
  each other. You're a team and you flow and it's like,
• 43:34
  you don't even have to talk anymore.
• 43:36
  You just do things together.
• 43:38
  Like it's almost like mind meld.
• 43:40
  It's but it's hard work.
• 43:42
  It's really hard work. And you've got to decide whether you want a white cane or you
• 43:48
  want a responsibility.
• 43:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That's a great way of putting it. I've never had a guide dog in my life.
• 43:55
  I travel a lot, but that's no excuse for not having a dog.
• 43:58
  But no. Do you want to work hard or do you want a responsibility?
• 44:03
  I love that. I love that.
• 44:06
  Ann Chiappetta: Thanks.
• 44:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So in closing, I'd like to ask you this.
• 44:10
  What words of wisdom or words of inspiration would you like to impart to our listeners
• 44:18
  based on your own story, based on how you have dealt with being told?
• 44:23
  At age 28, you had retinitis pigmentosa and you were pregnant.
• 44:29
  I never asked you how many children do you have?
• 44:32
  Ann Chiappetta: I have two.
• 44:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, wow. Tell us.
• 44:36
  Ann Chiappetta: Give us. So my son lives in Florida.
• 44:41
  He's 35. My daughter is 30, 31, and she lives here with us.
• 44:49
  And works in the postal service in Pennsylvania where we retired,
• 44:54
  so it's great having her
• 44:55
  around. Yeah.
• 44:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Any words of wisdom for.
• 45:01
  Ann Chiappetta: Words of wisdom?
• 45:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Inspiration. Don't give up.
• 45:05
  Ann Chiappetta: Fight. Yeah.
• 45:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Don't fight.
• 45:07
  Ann Chiappetta: Don't give up. Fight the good fight and.
• 45:09
  And ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 45:12
  And you know, don't be afraid to say, you know you know,
• 45:17
  I'm uncomfortable with this. And can we try a different way?
• 45:21
  There's always another way to do things.
• 45:23
  And the other thing is get help, mental health help.
• 45:29
  If, if you really feel you're struggling with your adjustment,
• 45:32
  if it's affecting you dramatically in your life ask for
• 45:39
  help. It's out there.
• 45:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This is a wonderful story of inspiration, motivation,
• 45:47
  commitment. And it's very, very refreshing.
• 45:49
  And I want to thank you, Anne, for having agreed to be our guest on
• 45:55
  this interview. I would love to keep in touch with you to find out what.
• 46:00
  What else is on your horizon?
• 46:02
  What are you doing? You know, please reach out to us and let us know.
• 46:07
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes, yes, yes, I have another book I'm working on.
• 46:10
  So I when it's when it's out, I'll let you know.
• 46:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Please do. And if I don't hear from you in a month or so.
• 46:17
  I'll come looking for you.
• 46:18
  Ann Chiappetta: Okay.
• 46:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right.
• 46:20
  Ann Chiappetta: Yes. Thank you so much.
• 46:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you. Anne. And listen, keep up the great work and don't give up.
• 46:29
  All right. Thank you very much.
• 46:30
  And you have a great rest of the day.
• 46:33
  Ann Chiappetta: Thank you.
• 46:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye. Bye now. Bye bye.
• 46:37
  Ann Chiappetta: Bye.
• 46:41
  Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donna@gmail.com.
• 46:47
  Until next time.