Latest / The Charity Changemakers Podcast / Season 3 | E4 Lee Barnett on compassionate leadership and bereavement support
Transcript
- Adam Stacey: Really pleased to have Lee with us today on the Charity Changemakers podcast. Thanks for being on the show. Lee Barnett: Thank you for having me. It's good to talk. I like doing that. So that's a good thing. Adam Stacey: Yeah, brilliant. Well, that's that always makes for a better, better episode. So I'm always delighted when people come on and really, yeah, you know, super prepared to share the journey and some insights with us with us today. Lee, I say this more or less every episode, I can never do justice to someone's introduction. So I am, yeah, take the slopey shoulder approach and pass pass pass that baton on basically. So if you want to take a minute or say to introduce who you are, what you do and a little bit about the organization, that'd be great to hear. Lee Barnett: Yeah, so I'm Lee Barnett, currently chief encourager of others with Sandy Bear Children's Breedment Charity. We support children, young people and families in the lead up to and following a bereavement. a bereavement by any means, ⁓ circumstances and the person that's died doesn't have to be a direct relative, it could be a close friend or family member or family friends ⁓ and support with these therapeutic interventions ⁓ we work across Wales, predominantly West Wales. with branching into South Wales and a little bit in North Wales, but ultimately we're on a journey to develop and to fill gaps. from personal perspective, I've been around the charity sector for too long now. So about trying to work to make sure we fill needs in communities. ⁓ And may be Sandy Bear, it may be other organizations that we work with, ⁓ which sure we'll talk about in a while. yeah, that's Sandy Bear. I live in a steep little village up in North Wales and travel around the loveliest part of the world I think is Wales, the hills, the mountains, the valleys, the beaches. Kent boy originally, so a bit of a ⁓ there. ⁓ yeah, for me, everything I do is very much focused on championing the voluntary sector ⁓ supporting people and projects. Adam Stacey: Brilliant, great, that's great. Well, it's like I say, great to have you on the show and really looking forward to exploring, like you say, unpacking some of the things that you've talked about there and hearing more about Sandy Bear and the work that you do. But I guess until before we get to all the big stuff, we like to ask these quickfire questions so guests can get to ⁓ know a little bit more and a bit more insight into you as the individual. yeah, so what does a good, maybe you've given us a bit of insight there where you talked about the beaches across North Wales, but yeah, what does a good weekend or a day off when they come around look like for you, Lee? Lee Barnett: ⁓ When I get a day off, with the dogs in the other half, up a mountain, having a walk or a hike, like I said on the beach, I've moved to Snowdonia, which is the loveliest place in the world. There's so many places to go and talk and enjoy in the scenery and whatever the weather, know, whether it's blowing a gale like it is today or whether it's brilliant sunshine or freezing cold, it's always pretty and nice. And if there's a pub at the end of that for cheeky pint, that's always welcome. So that's a good day off. for me. Adam Stacey: I remember the last time I climbed Snowdon, started as glorious blue skies, could see for miles, but by the time you got to the top, I couldn't see really much further than my hand. it could have been anywhere in the world. Lee Barnett: That's it. think the trick is to, think for me, because we live less than 45 minutes to get to Snowdon to the base of it. So we can pick and choose the weather. So when we see it's going to be a nice day and it's midweek, there's not going to be the tourists and the crowds. That's the time we go. I think it's more difficult if you're a bit further afield and you can't sort of plan your time in, you just have to go with it. yeah, we can be guided by the weather and pick and choose what we do and how far we go. not feel cheated. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. No, really fortunate. Yeah, amazing to have that, I'd like to say on the the doorstep. So Lee, second quick question for you. What's something small that brings a disproportionate amount of joy? Lee Barnett: So, obviously moving to North Wales, I'm going to change your lifestyle. I have been stupendously pleased last year by the two or three cucumbers and half a dozen tomatoes I managed to grow in my little cheap polytunnel that I brought. ⁓ I was the happiest person alive with those. ⁓ This year I hope to improve on that and at least double it. So if I'm get six cucumbers, I'll have done well and some others. yeah, the little things like that. Adam Stacey: Yes. Yeah. Lee Barnett: It's the small things that make you happy. ⁓ works for me. That and chocolates. Adam Stacey: Yeah, indeed. yeah. One is ⁓ love that Lee, ⁓ like two salads to maybe three, three or four salads this year. yes, yeah. ⁓ Lee Barnett: Yeah, well I may still starve but we'll see. Adam Stacey: That's brilliant. That's great. And what's one thing that people assume about your job that just isn't true? Lee Barnett: So those that don't know the charity sector, they think it's a really nice fluffy thing to do, but it's not a proper job. That's something I get told a lot. It's like, it's nice, but when are you going to get a career, when are you going do something proper? And for those people within the charity sector, it's knowing that I work in bereavement now. It's the job must be so sad and depressing the whole time. And actually there's a lot of laughter and joy. So they're the assumptions people make, I think, about the sector and about particularly bereavement. So those that don't know the charity sector, they think it's a really nice fluffy thing to do, but it's not a proper job. That's something I get told a lot. It's like, it's nice, but when are you going to get a career, when are you going do something proper? And for those people within the charity sector, it's knowing that I work in bereavement now. It's the job must be so sad and depressing the whole time. And actually there's a lot of laughter and joy. So they're the assumptions people make, I think, about the sector and about particularly bereavement. And yeah, there's a lot of that, but it's not not quite as it seems. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And probably through the course of the conversation, guess both of those themes, both of those things may well come out. And yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. Lee, we always keep these things off by asking how people found themselves in the sector. It's very rare that people very much set out with that hope to work within the charity world or aware of exactly where they were going to end up or with that career path clearly. Lee Barnett: Definitely. Adam Stacey: clearly defined. yeah, how did it how did it all start? Which I know is a huge question, but how did it all start for you? Lee Barnett: Yeah, well for me, think I had a pretty challenging childhood growing up. Divorced parents, all sorts of things going on that probably shouldn't happen to a child or young person. The result of that was I didn't really have a steer on where am going to go in life, what I'm going to do. I didn't have a clear path of career that I wanted to take on or do. So I ended up in catering to start with, ⁓ in restaurants. Ended up then... ⁓ Falling into an NHS role, working on a dementia unit, and I think there it kind of started to click and I thought actually helping people make sense, I can do this. That led to me falling into working with children and young people within the NHS and mental health, which then followed on to a few other roles. ⁓ And guess ⁓ the moment for me was ⁓ I working on a refugee unit for young refugees that just arrived in the UK. ⁓ And a partnership that we had with those was the Red Cross. a job came up to manage their youth services across Kent and Sussex. ⁓ I applied, got it. ⁓ you see the adverts on telly where the army and the Navy say, you know, I was born in Maidstone, but made in the Navy, whatever it is. I guess I was born in Maidstone, not born in Kent, but made in the Red Cross. I the most fantastic line manager there. She was absolutely awesome. So big shout out to Jane Roberts. She was just really, really good at supporting, nurturing, coaching, mentoring. I think see through the young 20 something naive, gullible, slightly gobbled up times, youth manager and helped develop that over time. And I think working at a regional level or local level within an organization like that, you get exposed to bits of HR, bits of fundraising, different elements of service delivery. the things that you don't always get in other jobs, which are really fixed and focused on particular areas. And I think that really got me interested in that strategic approach, the breadth of things, linking things together. So where there's an issue with transport or getting someone to a hospital appointment, it was how do we get the transport service working properly to do that? We got to then develop the communications here and it's linking things together. And that's kind of been, I suppose, the basis for jobs and roles I've taken on for the past 20 odd years since then. That's scary, makes me feel old talking about that. So yeah, that's kind how I fell into the sector. In between that, there've been lots of interim roles around commissioning and contracting with public health. I the most interesting for me was during the pandemic, ⁓ the I was with may be redundant. ⁓ was case of there wasn't the finances available to keep people on. And I fell into a role where I was the commissioner for sex, drugs and rock and roll. So sexual health services, substance misuse and various other GP services and things were within that role. I think that that reconfirmed to me that there's a for stuff within the community to support people. ⁓ It reconfirmed to me that there's the politics and the red tape within the ⁓ statutory And I really didn't want to be part of that. ⁓ For me, it's case of we spent more time in meetings, talking about meetings and what we might do and how we might do it, rather than just getting on with it and doing it. So Sandy Bear came along three years ago nearly now ⁓ a fantastic recruitment agency that I saw it as advertised with. And yeah, three years on, we've been through lots of drops and peaks and changes ⁓ and an absolutely amazing organization. ⁓ where my journey leads me to next, who knows. I think I've got a little bit of life left in me with Sandy Bear. Hopefully fall into a little retirement job, managing a little charity somewhere locally up here in the hills. But who knows? Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah. Indeed, indeed. I mean, there's a lot there, isn't there, I guess, within that career journey for you from, but I guess there's a, you know, as I reflect on that and the things that you've just shared there, it's obviously within organisations that are very clearly, you know, very people-centred and that clearly the motivation behind, obviously, the work that you've done and the roles that you've been a part of. Lee Barnett: Definitely. And I think from my Red Cross days, all those years ago, I think what was instilled into me from my line manager at time then was that compassionate leadership. It's about working with people from all sorts of backgrounds, all sorts of situations and scenarios and getting the best out of them and doing it in a way that, you you don't have to be a dictator. You don't have to micromanage. It's about nurturing and supporting people to get the best out of them. And I think that's what I've taken through my career. Some roles I've had, been able to do that a lot more than others. think within Sandy Bear now, I really do. You have to because of the nature of what we deal with day to day. But it really is just, I think, learning to support each other, get the best out of people's skills and experiences, and to help people develop and grow. It's not always about trying to be top dog. It's not always about being the most important person in the room. Actually, I suppose what I've learned is that it's not being the most important person in the room. You're the least important. one there, everyone else is there to sort of support you, you're just there to facilitate and conduct the orchestra if you like, they ⁓ the magic. Yeah, so I think each role I've had as well has really helped me to piece together and I've taken something from it, so whilst I'm not a fan of local authority commissioning processes, you do a bit up there about... governance and due diligence and making sure that you instill that with what we do now with Sandy Bear. The fundraising elements of things you take in different ways and contractual things. Some of the services, we do now deal with a lot of families that have been bereaved after a family member has been involved with drugs and alcohol. So actually commissioning substance misuse services a few years ago has come to the fore now because actually there's lots of synergy there and lots of crossovers. So I think everything's been a bit of a stepping stone and there's little boxes that I've got planted somewhere in my head that I can go, I know about that, but there's something there that I can use, which has helped me to be a fairly well rounded, I suppose. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess I'm really interested about that terminology, you know, compassionate leadership, and I guess how you've grown and developed that over your, over your career. And whether I mean, obviously, say about the different experiences, clearly in a range of different, different roles and different organizations that have helped develop that and line managers, do you think there's been, there been other things that have helped you, I guess, step into that or develop that or, you know, whether it's education or mentors, yeah, other things that have influenced that compassionate leadership that you that you ⁓ that you now work in and as. Lee Barnett: I think think personal life experiences along the journey years ago and recent ones, I think you just learned that actually you've only got one shot at it. You're only here once. You kind of have to make it count. And the type of people that we work with as well. So the beneficiaries that we support and the situations that they're in, you have to have that empathy and that compassion for them. And I think naturally that. just spills over into the way you manage, the way you work. The team we've got with Sandy Bear, they couldn't do the job if they didn't have that element of compassion to it. So it makes it easy to instill within our organization currently. But I think even with other roles, where I've been involved in contracts and commissions and it's lots of paperwork and process, actually there's still people at the end of that process. I say that as I see lots of emails come through that I can tell have been written by AI and things now. So things are changing. ⁓ But I think most of the people I've dealt with and worked with in whatever situation, they've got a life outside of work and it's adapting to suit their personalities, I guess, within the framework of whatever the organization is and what its purpose is. And just picking out and teasing out the best there. me, I think ⁓ I not been through a lot of stuff in life, I wouldn't be who I am, where I am or how I work today. ⁓ I think it's just trying to... instill that and remind myself of that even when you know things don't go well you get issues with HR with staffing or volunteer issues it's just an actual part of the course of working with people it's just trying to sit back and think actually this is just a situation or scenario I may have a problem with a person or they may have a problem with me but actually this is just it's personalities and the way people think and work it's basic psychology I suppose the other element of that is I didn't go through the formal routes of A levels, university, then out into the workplace. So I kind of learned on my feet and I learned by doing. And I think having that practical knowledge of working and doing and thinking and feeling has helped me to, I suppose, create that culture now where actually it doesn't matter where you've come from, it doesn't matter what your qualifications are, it's about the here and now what you can do and what you can offer. So it's, it's that, that, Lack of formality for me is, I suppose, living in chaos helps me to unpick things and see things slightly differently, I guess. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I guess the roles that you've had that have been in the sector, the role that you described at the Red Cross, for example, is an early part of your career, but it's a problem solving, it's a logistics, it's trying to bring things all together to have the greatest impact for the individual that's on the receiving end of the service. Lee Barnett: That's it. And I think the Red Cross particularly, their values and principles are really, really solid and strong in all they do. So, you know, that top one is humanity, impartiality, voluntary service. ⁓ the kind of things it's the being values based. And I think I've definitely taken those values and ⁓ them into whatever roles I've taken on since then. ⁓ though they may have different set of values and things, actually, those are probably still at heart of how I think and feel about work. and whatever I turn my hand to, I guess. Adam Stacey: also that experience of working in local authority, I'm sure is helpful on the day to day surely, guess, when working in the charity sector to kind of have that understanding to a degree. I mean, I local authorities vary from place to place and are constantly changing in different pressures, but there's a less of that us and them type mentality surely and about building those partnerships. Lee Barnett: It is, and where there's frustrations at every corner quite often, it's using those relationship building skills, I think, to work with people. Dynamics change, personalities change, and roles within the authorities do change quite a lot. ⁓ moving from a big local authority area I was working from in Kent to suddenly being in Wales where there's a lot of very small local authorities. ⁓ it changes the dynamics again. It's trying to work with that and different approaches to the way the health boards are set up as well. So we have to do a lot of work with the NHS and it's understanding the dynamics and the difference between Wales to England. I think within generally local authorities, I think there's a lot of good people in there. They just get caught up in the process sometimes. I mean, place where we're recording this at time where the Senate in Wales is about to ⁓ be as they go into the period of purg are and whatever else they do and tout for all their business and their votes. So again, it's trying to navigate that and work out who you forge relationships with and how you kind of, I suppose from a charity's perspective, who's going to be best for us as an organization going forward, who's going to support the people that we exist to be there for and to help. So it's navigating those relationships, talking to politicians and those at the top of leadership within councils as well. But knowing that in a few months time that can completely change when a completely new set of people come in to take over with a different agenda and a different focus. And what does that look like for us as an organization and how are we going to sort of stay relevant, still maintain true to our core values and what we're trying to achieve. yeah, ⁓ within ⁓ charity sector and the local authorities to think quite fickle. And ⁓ have to kind of wiggle and deal a little bit. Yeah, and I think getting to know lots of different people in different systems and structures over the years certainly helps me now in terms of navigating who we need to talk to and when and why and change quite quickly when we need to. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. Well, can make that, you for organisations where there is that close working with local authorities, I don't know what the funding is of Sandy Bear and what that looks like and how reliant, I guess, on those partnerships or the working, but it can make it difficult, it, for longer term planning, when, like you say, you know, people change in those positions, priorities change, agendas change, and can change quite quickly. Lee Barnett: That's it. And I think the long-term contracts and commissions are almost a thing of the past with many authorities now. We're fortunate to have a little bit of funding from Welsh government and we've got two years to run on that still. So we know that's there and safe. But that's a ⁓ drop in the ocean with what it costs to run the charity per year. And where we do get low statutory sector funding, there's so many more restrictions now on it, of what it can be spent for, how it can be used. It's so specific. that you can't always do the work you need to do completely. So it's happened to be adaptable as a small charity to suit the needs there. And I think there's also that element of short-termness that they don't tend to give out the longer term contracts and commissions that used to be there. They're a year of funding here and a year of funding there. for us, sustainability is a key thing. we're increasingly reliant on donations and community fundraising and corporates to support us as much as possible. So it's changing that function and that process from where Sandy Bear used to be very much small and supported by its local authority or the local health boards to now being funded, looking at options to do things differently. And that's frustrating because it restricts some of the stuff we can do with the statutory sector, it actually opens the doors to addressing need better because It gives us the adaptability and the flexibility to work in a way we know we need to. We can address those needs and fill the gaps that perhaps weren't previously met by contracts. So yeah, it's ever-changing. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, like you say, the mission of the charity doesn't, does it? It's about, you know, how can we have the greatest impact and bring the services that we know work to the people that need it the most? And like you say, at a time of growth for you as an organisation as well, you know, nationally, you were talking across Wales. Lee Barnett: That's it. And I think for us as a sector, so the bereavement sector more generally, it's not really been, I suppose, out there as much as could be. It's always seen as being very sombre, very miserable and very sad place to work. There's, not a week goes by where I think myself and the team don't end up in tears with some of the situations that some of our families find themselves in. It's so emotive. But equally, there's a lot of times where there's a lot of laughter. We do a lot of work about building positive memories for the children we're working with about the loved one that has died. And actually that involves telling jokes, funny stories about what somebody's done. Or do you remember that time that dad did this and his head died a different color or it fell out or he did this and the wallpaper didn't stay. The little stories and things that actually generate positive memories rather than thinking about the negative. So there's a lot of laughter. and actually the outputs of what we do as a charity as well. There's starting to be a bit of recognition now, the National Curriculum has started to put in things about talking about death and dying and loss and grief onto the curriculum because they recognise actually to have those open, honest conversations, even with young people, they're more focused on their education if they're not caught up in their grief. They're less likely to get involved in drugs and alcohol for teenagers particularly. or risky activities and behaviours, if they've had the right support, ⁓ quite often it's their outlet, is that we won't engage in school, we won't have positive relationships with parents or peers, we'll get involved in the wrong activities and things, and actually it's a cry for help. And if you give people that right support, you give them the coping skills, the resilience that they need as young people, they're not going to have the emotional difficulties and challenges later on. people are starting to see that social value of what we do and why it's so important to get that support in there straight away. yeah, I think the sector's definitely starting, people are starting to take notice of agreement and pay a bit more attention to it. Yeah. Adam Stacey: Yeah, which is really important. yeah, take the opportunity then to tell us a little bit about Sandy Bear and you talk about also that, you know, the work that you're able to do and to deliver and the impact that it's able to have. share a little bit with us about what that work looks like. Lee Barnett: ⁓ so referrals come from all across Wales from any type of region. So at the moment we are seeing, ⁓ we're seeing a lot of referrals from those that have been impacted by suicide, which a really difficult and challenging thing to have to work with, to talk to. Our families are often, it's ⁓ the of that journey. So quite often it'll be through a link through the police or the school that somebody would refer to us. and it could be as soon as a day or two after somebody's died. So we could be helping a parent or carer to tell that young person what's happened to their relative, to their special person that's died, and trying to help them explain why that's happened in an age-appropriate way, which is really difficult. People often say, oh, five-year-old doesn't understand, they can't go to a funeral, they don't understand this. Actually, they pick up on a lot more than you think. And when we start having conversations, we often end up with parents going, wow. I didn't know they heard that conversation when on the phone. I didn't know they understood this. So honesty is the best policy with those situations and it's working through that process with the family ⁓ a pace that suits them. ⁓ ⁓ those situations, we can be there as that ⁓ hand with everything from just talking through the processes they're to have to go through, ⁓ with coroners, funeral directors, trying do the positive memory making that we can at that time as well as trying to help, guide and steer young people's emotions to help them sort of be part of the process. One of my fantastic colleagues that I've worked with over the past three years now has arguments with vickers about fume rules and things, where a vicar might say in a traditional community, we don't have this and this is how it works and you can't walk in front of the coffin because that's what I do as the vicar and young people don't understand that. it's quite often. there's no rhyme nor reason for it to be that case. So we'll often be the mediator between different agencies to help get what those young people and those families need to help them grieve properly. also seeing quite a big rise ⁓ ⁓ suppose in my naivety when I started, I thought that hospices, they do a fantastic job and they're there for people at the greatest time of need, but their focus is very much on the person that's in the hospice that's getting the care and support that's dying. So we're getting a lot of work now in partnership with, which is great, with hospices to help train up their staff and volunteers on what to say and do to young people. You know, when that person in the hospice dies, what do we say to that child? How do we help them to agree and process that? So we get a lot of families now coming through where it's quite often it's mum or dad. Sometimes it's grandparents that have been given a limited time to live and Sometimes it could be months in advance, in which case that person that's dying is part of the process. They help create memory boxes and videos and share stories and letter writing. And we do it as a family and that's really, really powerful. And then once the person sadly dies, we're there to support the family after that as well. And we find that providing that support at the outset, it means that that young person is far better equipped afterwards to cope. they know who they can talk to, they know the things, they understand their feelings a little bit more. So it's less of an impact, negative impact on them. yeah, we kind of at all ends of the spectrum, right from the very start, before someone's even died, right the way through to when there's been a sudden or traumatic death. And for me, a lot of my staff and volunteers come from backgrounds where they've got that lived experience. They often come into the sector because they know what it feels like because they've been through it themselves. it's helping to support that team that we've got. So we've got 11 staff at the moment, 70 volunteers. And it's making sure that they're kept safe as well because talking to other people about death and dying all day, every day, it's quite hardcore. It's not the easiest thing to do. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Indeed. Lee Barnett: I suppose my role is very much to make sure that those staff are getting access to that support as well. So they get time out, they get to talk through things and they're not carrying the weight of everyone else on their shoulders. So yeah, it's, and we've been doing that from little sleepy West Wales, growing across Wales. And I don't think that there's a need for us to develop any further than that. Everybody laughs at me when I'm talking about developing in Grimes, they know it's going to be Sanliver International. ⁓ I know there are parts of the world where they've asked us about what we do and whether we could implement it in other parts of the world and other countries. At the moment, there are so many other small bespoke children's bereavement charities around the UK that actually let them do that. They're in that area. There's no need for us to be there if they're doing it and doing it really well, but let's talk to each other. Let's make sure we're doing things together. We're sharing best practice. So for me, yes, Wales, game on. We've got to do lot more. There's so many more families to support. Adam Stacey: Yeah. them. Lee Barnett: But I think UK-wide, it's just making sure we're part of those networks and joining the dots so that we're all talking to each other and doing the right things. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the service that you offer, obviously, you know, in those, in those moments where families are trying to navigate such, you know, clearly difficult, difficult circumstances, and ⁓ just having that, that voice and someone there that can help help navigate the family through, through that and advocate and support is ⁓ so vital in a time where, you know, clear thinking and clarity, you know, just isn't necessarily there, is it? And just being able to walk alongside is, yeah. Lee Barnett: Sometimes it's not even the bereavement that's the issue for young people. Sometimes they just pick it up and go, yeah, okay, it's what happens. It's sad and they move on. But the issue is that actually if the person that died is the main breadwinner and suddenly they're struggling financially, it's putting food on the table. Do they need access to a food bank? Have they got the services in place that they need to be there? So we're kind of using the slogan, we're bigger than bereavement more and more often now. because you can't help someone with their emotional well-being until their physical needs are met. that whole Maslow's hierarchy of needs, ⁓ sure that the initial warmth and everything they need is there before you can deal with all the bigger stuff. yeah, a... And again, it's not for Sandy Bear to do that. It's for us to work with those that do do it better than us and champion that support fully for families. Adam Stacey: If people are hearing of Sandy Bear listening today for the first time, where are they going to find out more? And if they want to support, how can they get involved? Lee Barnett: ⁓ gosh, so many ways. So we're obviously all over the socials. So Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, all things I'm rubbish at doing. ⁓ trying TikTok, but we could do is some young fresh faced people that know how to do these things rather than boring stuffy videos from me waffling on ⁓ things. So We're on a journey digitally to sort of try and develop that and write, but we've got a website which has got lots of information on there and it's evolving all the time. So we're slowly putting up more resources there. There's opportunities just to find out more about us, to refer in to us if you're in Wales. If you're not, but you just need, don't know where to go, you can obviously sort of get in touch and we can kind of signpost you to where you need to go. Volunteers, we always need. It's not always dealing with the families directly. We've got about 50 % dropout rate for that volunteer training. That's not because we're awful and it's not because people are terrible, it's because the work we do is so emotive. So people come with the well intentions, they want to help and support, but they realize actually it's probably too difficult for them to do at that time. Those volunteers do tend to stay on and help out with fundraising events and activities and things, but there's opportunities there for family support. There's opportunities there to help sell PR marketing, fundraising events. We always need fundraising. think you probably get sick of charities saying, yes, we want volunteers to fundraise for us. I think we are small enough that we care and that we're flexible and adaptable, big enough to make a bit of a difference and have an impact. So ⁓ any corporates that might be listening to this, it's, you know, we're all ears about projects and schemes and activities. You know, there's myself and a group of fantastic trustees that we have now in place. And as long as it's supporting children and families and bereavement, anything else that makes that happen is fair game. So yeah, there's lots of ways to get in touch or just drop us emails or a call and just we like to talk as you're probably working out. Adam Stacey: Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, no, that's great. That's good. And we'll make sure in the show notes that there's a link through to the Sandy Bear website. And disdainfully, Dawn and me, as we were having this conversation, mean, obviously at Charisma, we've worked with Sandy Bear previously. And where's the charity name come from? Presumably you get asked this all the time, Lee Barnett: Well, it started out as a NHS service in Pembrokeshire 20 plus years ago now. And the sandy bit is from the beaches of Pembrokeshire, because we're obviously surrounded by coasts down here. And so that's the yellow bit. And they needed something tangible as well to go with it. So the bear kind of kind of fitted in. All the young people we work with get a sandy bear. So there's one up behind me somewhere. Every young person gets a bear as part of their journey with us. Teenagers are a little bit more reluctant, but I think secretly they quite enjoy it and they like having them. So that's kind of where the name came from. And then when the NHS ⁓ sadly stopped funding the service about 10, 11 years ago now, they just kept the name on and set it up as a charity. yeah, it's the sandy beaches and the blue skies ⁓ ⁓ where we started out. ⁓ Adam Stacey: nice reminder of the roots of the organisation as well, forevermore, is great. ⁓ Lee Barnett: it. And that's the plan for us. It's trying to stay local, you know, although we are Wales-wide, we do support further field than that as well. It's knowing that our roots are in Pembrokeshire and, we don't have to be in the middle of a city centre at the capital city or wherever, you know. I think for us, we've just moved offices this week, our headquarters, but we stayed local, we stayed in the county that we're kind of born and bred and started in. I think it's quite nice now with technology and the way is these days that you don't have to be in big swanky offices somewhere in London or Cardiff, which seems to the centre of the universe for everything that happens. You can operate from the middle of nowhere if you need to and still provide the same support. Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And look, when we get people onto the show, I guess I'm always interested into what the day job actually looks like. Now, being chief executive of a smaller organisation, I guess I'm really intrigued. I'm sure that no two days ever look the same, Lee, but what does a typical day, what does it look like? Lee Barnett: ⁓ gosh, there is no typical day. I suppose my role very much varies. I don't spend as much time as I'd like on governance ⁓ the behind the scenes stuff as I'd like. ⁓ do it because I find the time somehow. I think that's fitting to be any other duties ⁓ hours, volunteering time. But it's supporting the staff and the team to make sure they've got the resources that they need. ⁓ I could be talking about... ⁓ a new member of staff or volunteer, making sure they've got everything they need to be inducted fully. with us, as you can imagine, young people come from all sorts of backgrounds, so I spend a lot of time dealing with safeguarding issues concerns. ⁓ And I safeguarding, it's not always the real horrible stuff, it's just that making sure that young person's got food on the table and maybe if there's issues there, we're making sure they're supported. So lots of conversation with local authorities and commissioners about that. might have a funding bid to write and apply to. Equally, when we've got funding, it's to write in the reports on that. Gathering studies and stories, networking, talking other charities ⁓ and organisations. North Wales, we've got a collaboration called MFIS Alice, which is Alice's Rainbow. It's a network of six charities, of which Sandy Bear's one, and it's not about us all doing the same thing for families, jumping in and trying to help. It's about saying, this family's got an issue, which of us charities is best to support them? So there's a lot of talks and discussions around how we put that and make it work. So those networks and partnerships and links you have to keep doing and have to keep having. It's that looking at spreadsheets. at number crunching, trying to make sure we've got enough money in the bank to pay the salaries each month. keeps me up at night is, ⁓ we pay the staff? Can we keep going? Have got enough reserves to keep us going for at least six months? If we've got too much more than that, we can't apply for a lot of the funding that we want to. So it's trying to juggle the financial elements of things and making sure that we're viable but not. Adam Stacey: Thanks. Lee Barnett: too viable because then people won't support us. champion in our work a lot of shouting about what we do to tell people ⁓ they can get involved and support us. But think there's no dull day. I ended up last week, I ended up in Colwyn Bay, Keridigie and Carmarthenshire and Cardiff. ⁓ I've all the seas of Wales. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Yes. ⁓ Lee Barnett: A lot of it's from remote working. can do it sitting in my desk at home office at the moment. Or often I'm down in one of our hubs that we use. We've got one base in Pembrokeshire. The other counties we work out of the charity buildings. This is a mental health charity that we work with in Swansea. Big shout out to them. One Health, they're fantastic. it's, think no two days the same. Some days you think... going to go in one direction and you've got a plan of action and it very rarely does pan out like that. Yeah, ⁓ crazy. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Lee Barnett: kind of structured in some way, but yeah, the day in life of a small chief exec in the charity is never dull. Adam Stacey: No, never at all. And I love the fact that you talked about it ranges from helping move the office to meeting the local MP to writing the funding bid to, yeah, like you say, being maybe caught up in a safeguarding concern with a local authority. yeah, huge amount of variety. But I guess your career has always been about solving the problem with whatever the logistical challenges in front of you. ⁓ And that's what shines through, I guess. Lee Barnett: That's it. Yes, I do love solving the problem. I do think with Sandy Bear though, I think we've kind of gone from where we were in terms of being small to growing and expanding. There's a of me feels that it's almost at the point where I'd be like, we've done what we need to do. We're kind of there now, what's next? But there's a part of me with Sandy Bear that feels I've got that affinity to it. I think I've got to, I should take a step back and have the easy ride for a little bit. Just enjoy what's been put in place and what's been done. until the next challenge comes along. Although ⁓ three to five year plan with Sandy Bear is rapidly turning into a five to seven year I think and it's I'll probably still be here on 80. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Well, I think when you end up in the place that, like you say, that feels right and you can see the difference and the impact that it's happening and the fact that no two days are the same, it's exciting and it keeps people engaged and there's opportunity there, isn't there? That's the way I would think. Lee Barnett: It is. And it's the volunteers and the staff that do it. You know, I do a lot of boring stuff behind the scenes, but they make the magic happen. The staff are absolutely awesome. The trustees are really supportive and committed to the cause. without them, I couldn't do any of the stuff that I do do on a daily basis. I think it's, yeah, looking after the team, making sure they've got everything they need and hopefully encouraging them to have the same sort of values and principles and not think they're going to be in Sandy Bear forever, but to think, actually, what am I doing to make a difference? What does that mean to me as an individual? then developing that within, know, I say to the team, it doesn't matter if you're with us for six months or six years, it's about what you do in the time you're with us. And if you leave and you leave on good terms, then that's great because it's someone to collaborate with and work with in future. it's the team that make it happen, I think, for me. Adam Stacey: And as you, I mean, look, we could talk for hours, I'm sure, but as you reflect on your sort of career today and the journey that you've been on, what's one lesson that you've learned in a hard way that you think has shaped you as a leader that you are today? Lee Barnett: ⁓ There's probably two. One is that trying to employ and deploy that compassionate leadership. I think when you do that, people can often see that as a sign of weakness and that you're too nice ⁓ that can be exploited quite easily. I'm a firm believer that robust policies and procedures tend to deal with those issues ⁓ and also a nice big dose of karma ⁓ bites people on the bum when they need it at times. And I also think a very young and very green Lee to management roles, learn the hard way that you don't insinuate that a trustee might be a witch because that can be deemed as gross misconduct. learned the hard way of what you do and don't do. Yes, that's one lesson I learned the hard way, but you learn from those things. And I think it builds and develops and grows you. So from the spotty little like that I was years ago to now you kind of, learn and you mature. I still feel I'm 23 in my head, so maturity is just a concept, I think. So yeah, I think I've probably put my foot in it and said and done things completely wrong over the years, but haven't we all? Adam Stacey: Indeed, yeah, absolutely. And like you say, it's how you learn from those, isn't it? In response to those errors, those mistakes and learn from it and like you say, shaped you to who you are today. Lee Barnett: That's it. I kind of acknowledged my issues and what I said back then that I may have been a bit harsh, but the principle behind it I was definitely right with. But yeah, that was a long time ago. no, think, yeah, just leading with compassion and being as nice as possible does expose you to people scrutinizing and picking holes. And I think when you take on any management job or leadership role, you know that there's going to be somebody out there that says, I could do that better. I could do that differently. And it's like, well, yeah, but I think it's having that conviction to focus on it and saying, you know what, I've done the research, this is what we need here. And now I'm considering 20 million different parts to this, not just the one part that maybe others have seen. And they'll get their chance to do that and do their part and put their part into it in future if that's the way things go. yeah, it's been true to myself, I think, go with your gut. ⁓ quite often and you have to go with that gut feeling. Adam Stacey: Lee, it's been ⁓ absolutely superb to have you on the Charity Changemakers podcast. Thank you so much for making time. Your insights have been really helpful. It's been great to hear about this approach to compassionate leadership and the things that have influenced your journey along the way. And brilliant to hear more about Sandy Bear. We'll definitely, like I say, we'll make sure the link is in the show notes. If you're happy, we'll tag you up on LinkedIn. I'm sure there might be people that might have questions or want to reach out. I know you said you're really happy to. to do that. yeah, I'm sure people may well be in touch. Lee Barnett: Fantastic, no, always happy to talk and thank you for inviting us and having us on. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Yeah, no, likewise, Lee, absolutely brilliant to have you on the show. Thank you for your time and really excited to see how things continue to develop. Lee Barnett: Thank you.