Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Brett Berish - President & CEO at Sovereign Brands | How to Make Your Brand Unbeatable

Transcript

Brett Berish - President & CEO at Sovereign Brands | How to Make Your Brand Unbeatable · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  My first brand doesn't exist today. That is my most successful brand.
• 0:04
  The reason I say that is, it's because of that brand I've learned everything.
• 0:08
  Brett Barish, president and CEO of Sovereign Brands, knows the formula.
• 0:11
  From crafting the global sensation, Luke Belair, to developing top-selling rums like Bumble,
• 0:16
  and award-winning gins like McQueen and The Violet Fog,
• 0:19
  Brett has turned Sovereign into an international powerhouse.
• 0:22
  Brans, take time. If you stick to something for a long time, you're gonna have success.
• 0:27
  If you believe in something, you can do anything. It's not one thing that's made
• 0:30
  as successful. It's lots of things, trying lots of things.
• 0:34
  You gotta try a whole bunch of shit, maybe something will work. People make mistakes.
• 0:38
  All the time is, you're just setting yourself up to fail if you ask somebody to repaint it.
• 0:43
  But here's the real twist. He's not just creating products, he's building a culture,
• 0:46
  a movement with a self-made taste better campaign featuring icons from music sports and entertainment.
• 0:51
  It's the hardest thing in the world to do, try to convince somebody to do it differently.
• 0:56
  There was an easy one, I would all be doing it, but there's nothing that's easy.
• 0:59
  I don't think anybody's had more new, successful brands than us.
• 1:02
  It's a great side of it. If you believe in something, you can make it successful.
• 1:06
  Premium brands can exist everywhere in the world.
• 1:08
  Cheap brands, difficult.
• 1:10
  In this episode, Brett shares how he's repeatedly built game-changing brands and the secret sauce
• 1:15
  behind his partnerships with some of the world's most renowned producers.
• 1:19
  If you've ever wondered what it takes to turn a passion into a global empire,
• 1:22
  this is one story you won't want to miss.
• 1:27
  Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary.
• 1:30
  The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. I'm also a big user of HubSpot
• 1:35
  products. I've supported the show for over three years now and for all entrepreneurs out there,
• 1:40
  I need you to go back to a time and place when building businesses as tough as it is can be
• 1:46
  sometimes a little bit fun. When you're marketing, it should be fun. But marketing is not so fun
• 1:51
  anymore because it's very time consuming. It's very difficult and it feels like there's just
• 1:55
  a lot of friction. Content was simpler to make. Leads were easier to capture and we weren't all spread
• 2:02
  so thin. As marketers, as entrepreneurs, the bottom line is that marketing used to be fun.
• 2:06
  It's not so fun anymore. But with HubSpots newly launched marketing and content hubs,
• 2:11
  I've been using it myself. It brings a little bit of fun and creativity back into marketing for
• 2:15
  your business. They're going to generate better content. They're going to generate more leads
• 2:18
  and next level results, which really make marketing fun again. So with tools like content remix,
• 2:23
  you can turn existing assets into all new pieces with just one click. Lead scoring helps you shine
• 2:29
  a light on the leads that are most likely to purchase and analytic suites they built out will help
• 2:33
  you with reports, KPIs and just a gold mine of AI powered insights. It's quick to get your results.
• 2:39
  It's easy to use. It connects all your teams in your data. So put the fun back into your marketing
• 2:44
  funnel with HubSpot. Visit HubSpot.com to get started for free.
• 2:57
  Brett, dude, I'm excited you're down here. I'm excited to do this. Yeah, I love it.
• 3:00
  A lot of fun. I wanted to start this off because I think that most of your career has been
• 3:08
  a little bit contrarian. And I think that's actually how you've really succeeded. So
• 3:14
  just to sort of frame your thoughts around building a business. How do you look at building a business
• 3:22
  adopting like almost a contrarian perspective whenever you try and build something or
• 3:26
  design something new or think through something new? Because the way that you do things,
• 3:31
  I don't think is the way that 99% of people would do it. You know, for whatever reason,
• 3:37
  you just made me think of, I'm in high school right now. It's my senior year and I entered,
• 3:42
  it was like, it was called the Mr. Neutral Contest or my high school name. And it brings me back
• 3:49
  to that because I remember when you had to do your bathing suit contest or your night, you know,
• 3:58
  your form of work contest or your talent. I had to do it differently. I had to think differently
• 4:09
  from everybody else because my whole thing was I got to be different. How do I get noticed?
• 4:16
  And I think that's literally has never changed is I think to myself what's going to be special
• 4:24
  about this one moment. And for me, it's about all the moments trying to be different because I
• 4:30
  can't be like everybody else because they're going to have more talent, more money, more style,
• 4:35
  the look better, everything's better. I got to be different. Do you think that was something
• 4:40
  that you picked up from your family? Because your dad, so your dad was an executive at Jim
• 4:44
  Bean for 25 years, which is so interesting because if I think executive at Jim Bean, I don't think
• 4:50
  different. I think somebody that's actually in this huge machine, this is very this corporate
• 4:56
  behemoth. That's not a small company. So it's so funny because you're you did the same thing
• 5:03
  but different. You're still in spirits. You're still in liquor. You still create. Yeah, I don't,
• 5:07
  if you're asking where it comes from, I don't know. I think maybe it's I'm the youngest of my
• 5:15
  four brothers. And I need to stand out. Maybe it's insecurity. Maybe it's I don't know because
• 5:22
  the way the way I think about my dad right now, there's no question. I take tons of stuff that
• 5:28
  he's given me and his ability to sparkle in his eyes when he talks about the industry or talks
• 5:35
  about a brand or how he can engage people just about what he did for a living and he loved it.
• 5:40
  So I think I have that or he instilled that in me. But I don't know where it comes from but you're
• 5:46
  getting lately things are making me realize what I do today is no different than what I did in
• 5:52
  high school or what I did in grade school. How do I stand out because I don't have what everyone
• 5:58
  else has mentality? I think that's I think it's a very strong like mental space to build from
• 6:05
  because it creates this it creates this figure it out. I got to figure this shit out and it
• 6:10
  doesn't matter what I got to figure out. But I mean, I can't I can't rely on money. I can't
• 6:14
  rely on connections. I can't rely on doing things the way that everyone else has done it.
• 6:18
  And I think that's actually what allowed you to be as well. I think so. But at the same time,
• 6:23
  I'm also realizing like right now in in my career, which is 20 plus years now in this in starting
• 6:30
  this company, the first five or six years, I don't think I I did some things differently,
• 6:37
  but I did a lot of things based on what everyone else was doing. And that's where I kept making
• 6:42
  mistakes. Explain explain one mistakes. Oh, it's everything it's everything holds true from back
• 6:49
  then to today. You know, hiring people based on their industry experience, you know, I shouldn't
• 6:59
  have done that. I should based on today, I hire not today, but the past 15, 20 years I'm hiring
• 7:06
  people. I don't care about the industry experience. I don't care how they are. I don't care about
• 7:12
  what they know because I know I can teach them. But what I can't teach is that energy excitement
• 7:16
  enthusiasm. Wait for nobody. Go freaking make it happen yourself. Like that's different to work,
• 7:25
  you know, the way if somebody in this in our industry told me that this is the way you should
• 7:31
  build a brand, he's smarter than me. He's been doing it longer than me. Clearly he knows I'd follow
• 7:36
  his lead. I thought the way to do it. That's not. It's not. And it took me sometimes it takes maybe
• 7:42
  hopefully it's shorter today, but it takes me while to learn, you know, that I can't be like
• 7:46
  everybody else. There's some things I can do that it should be the same, but other things, no, no,
• 7:51
  you know, when you hear the words like this is the way it's always been done, I've always felt
• 7:56
  that's a death of a company. Like I don't know if you feel the same way, but it's almost like in
• 8:01
  your creative process and your business building process, you architected the you're going to push
• 8:06
  back against that repeatedly. And I think that's why you keep rolling out. Just got it's the hardest
• 8:11
  thing in the world to do is try to convince somebody to do it differently, especially when you
• 8:17
  need them, especially when they're ingrained in what they do, you know, whether it's a distributor
• 8:22
  and importer, somebody who's selling your brand, somebody who's marketing for you, it's it's
• 8:28
  there's a fine line because you want to piss them off, but at the same time it's like you got to
• 8:32
  convince them there's another way to do it or let's try this. It's very hard. It's very hard.
• 8:39
  So talk to me. I mean, like you come from a family that was in the categories called spirits,
• 8:44
  right? Just yeah, so spirit. So when you're growing up, is this something that you always wanted to do
• 8:49
  because I know that you even, I was listening to a couple different shows for we jumped on this.
• 8:53
  So you got in trouble in college for trying to be an entrepreneur in your dorm. So walk me through
• 8:58
  that story, maybe like the first version of your entrepreneurship. Well, there were multiple versions,
• 9:03
  but that one, I went to University of Florida in Gainesville. I was living in the dorms and
• 9:09
  I think I had just seen some historical, not historical. It was about the Pittsburgh Steelers
• 9:15
  and the Terrible Towel and which was this towel they all waved during the heyday of the Steelers.
• 9:20
  And I thought, I want to do this, I want to do this for Florida. And I came up with this design
• 9:25
  and we called it, I called it the Gator of the Whip and Rag with an alligator on it. And ultimately,
• 9:31
  it started selling it out of the dorms, had a big article written about me. It was funny in the
• 9:35
  Gator times. And then they kicked me out of the dorms because I wasn't supposed to have a
• 9:39
  business in the dorms. But I was the kid. I was, I described myself, there are those people in
• 9:48
  life who are fortunate enough to know exactly what they want to do. God bless them. I think that's
• 9:52
  an amazing feeling. For me, it was, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I had lots of ideas.
• 9:59
  And I didn't pick any because I was afraid that idea that I wanted to choose wasn't the one,
• 10:05
  one. And I never have another good idea again. So therefore, you're just kind of lost. You're
• 10:10
  kind of treading water and treading time. And that was me. So it wasn't until my 30s where I just,
• 10:19
  I, I just had to pick something and I picked this industry and I've never looked back.
• 10:25
  That's why because at the end of the day, it's all about action, obviously. But to just say,
• 10:30
  I'm picking an industry like you're planting a flag in it and you're going to figure it out
• 10:35
  regardless. Okay. So, but I wanted, but, but I remember being in college in high school and I wanted
• 10:42
  to do 100% at GABE tequila before it was 100%. I wanted to own, I wanted to buy liquor store chain
• 10:51
  in Chicago that I thought I could develop the next, the next big, you know, office max,
• 10:57
  staples and liquor business, which was a great idea back then. But I just, I didn't have the
• 11:03
  confidence to pull anything off if that made sense. I got to come to myself on an easy industry.
• 11:10
  Yeah, but no industry is easy. There's a, if there was an easy one, we'd all be doing it,
• 11:13
  but there's nothing that's easy, nothing that's easy. Yeah, that's true. It's very true. I look at
• 11:19
  second from like a tech background. So to me, figuring out supply chain and logistics and regulatory
• 11:26
  is like, fuck that. Like, like, honestly, fuck that. So to me, that seems like a huge lift.
• 11:31
  But I guess if you come from it, then you kind of know your way around a little bit. It's not
• 11:36
  easy, but it seems like a, well, I tell people, I still say this line and I still believe it is,
• 11:43
  um, the best thing about me with this industry is I'm an, I, I understand it. I appreciate it,
• 11:50
  but I'm not too close to it because I never worked in it. And I think if you're too close to
• 11:56
  something, you miss the opportunity to, you don't see it. Even today, you know, I love liquor stores.
• 12:01
  I hate liquor stores. I don't want to go in. It's overwhelming. It's too many brands. I'm,
• 12:05
  it's visually too much for me going to a total of wines. And it's, it's insane. It's like
• 12:11
  possible with, so for me, it's, it's, I don't want to be tainted. I want to look at it from fresh
• 12:18
  from an outsider's perspective. And I still think that way. So I get lots of ideas, not from
• 12:23
  our industry, trying to think about it from a different perspective. When I even look in,
• 12:27
  when I walk through the aisles, like, I can tell everyone's trying to stand out at the same time
• 12:32
  no one's standing out. It's very hard. So when you look, I mean, you're, like, the bottles are
• 12:38
  beautiful. Like, I think that's the first thing I noticed. Like, the bottles are very beautiful.
• 12:41
  But they don't look like all the other bottles that you can tell with probably 99% of brands
• 12:48
  out there, what that drink is just based on the bottle. But you don't do that. I don't think you do
• 12:54
  that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, I do. I do. I, I, it's true actually. If I look at
• 13:01
  Deakin, which is the new one, which is my scotch, it doesn't look like the category. It doesn't look
• 13:06
  like the industry. So for me is it's this, it goes back to this idea that I can't outspend the
• 13:11
  big guys. I can't outspend them on marketing and I can't force it on people. So I need to stand
• 13:18
  out. That's how I think about it. So everything is in the design. At least I believe it is. So there's
• 13:25
  a story. There's a story about the color, about the name, about the, the, the feeling of the bottle
• 13:31
  when you touch it about the, whether it's debossed or embossed, where it's debossed, where it's
• 13:36
  embossed, you know, what the, what the copy says, what the court looks like, all those things
• 13:40
  mattered to me. What, what was the first version of, the first company started to build that,
• 13:46
  he said, 30? Yeah. Oh, I, in my mid 30s when I started sovereign. Okay. So that was that. So
• 13:51
  it's been around for 20 plus years. What was the first version of it? Well, my first brand,
• 13:58
  my first brand does exist today. And I always say that that is my most successful brand.
• 14:06
  And the reason I say that is it's because of that brand. I've learned everything. I learned how to
• 14:11
  build brands. I learned how to be patient. I learned how to trust my own instincts. I learned
• 14:18
  my, you know, I've lots of sayings. If anybody's going to fuck it up, it's got to be me. I learned
• 14:23
  not to rely on anybody back then. I, when people said they do things, I assume they do and I'd
• 14:27
  sit and wait for it. So that brand taught me and it doesn't exist. Everything that I've done
• 14:35
  since and I think were them, I don't say this in a boasting way. I don't think anybody's had more
• 14:42
  new successful brands than us. And, but I say that proudly in, in, in, in telling the next
• 14:50
  brat out there who wants to develop the next brand, what all my brands haven't come is no one
• 14:56
  believed in them. No one thought they would work. No one. And I, to me, it's a great side of if
• 15:02
  you believe in something, you can make it successful. Why, why would no one believe in any of these
• 15:09
  brands? And again, I want to, I think that it's really important that Ace of Spades, that exit was
• 15:17
  very publicized and it was, it was a big in the news of whatnot. And then I heard you on a,
• 15:21
  I think it was another Miami podcast actually. And the guy asked, so nobody believed in you even
• 15:27
  after that, they still don't, but that's wild to me. Like, what, what does it, what does it take?
• 15:31
  That's super impressive for it. I, I should say, is it, maybe it's easier? Maybe it's always a
• 15:39
  little bit easier. Maybe it opens the door a little bit more. Maybe the meeting's a little bit
• 15:42
  longer. But it goes back to what you said is, is, you know, this is the way it's been done. This is
• 15:52
  the way you look at it. So if you, even if you look at it, I, I, again, another saying is I hate
• 15:58
  data. I hate trends. I'm, if something's hot, I don't want to do it. Because if I'm not already part
• 16:05
  of that trend, it's too late. So if you think about champagne, there is no champagne.
• 16:11
  It's back, you know, there is no new champagne. No one goes into that category. It's the last
• 16:17
  category you want to enter. Because it's old and it's controlled by one company, which is Moa
• 16:22
  had to see, which is all the champagne. So, you know, you're entering a category that everyone
• 16:27
  sink. Come on. It's never going to work. And now you're pricing it more expensive than any other
• 16:32
  champagne. And now you're putting it in this gold, you know, shiny bottle that looks nothing
• 16:39
  like everyone else. And it's not a vintage. It's a multi vintage. So all those things are
• 16:44
  completely going against the grain of what anybody else would do. So it's true. The average
• 16:49
  person would say, this is not going to work. It's not going to work. When you look back to that,
• 16:54
  the first brand, it doesn't exist anymore. What would be, you said, you had a whole bunch of
• 17:00
  learnings and lessons and stuff like that. What would be the biggest success and best lesson
• 17:06
  of that, but also like the biggest failure from that first one. The thing that was like the
• 17:10
  shit hitting the fan moment for ACE or my first neural for your first brand, because I love
• 17:16
  like the stories at the beginning. I think the probably the biggest lesson is it wasn't still
• 17:23
  is. It's not about quantity. It's about quality and everything. And any sale, I'd rather have
• 17:31
  10 accounts do really well than have 100 counts with a bottle. To me, it's, if you're in 100 accounts
• 17:39
  and nothing's happening, there's this, you feel like you're rushing just to make sales. To me,
• 17:45
  success is, you gotta have each one is successful because it helps the next one. So I still believe
• 17:55
  that. And I still tell my team that and I still think that way. Success wise, I think,
• 18:06
  I don't, I look at the negatives more than the positives. I mean, that's actually a very healthy
• 18:10
  way because then you pay attention to the things that are not working out so well. But it goes back
• 18:15
  to these sayings and literally I believe these things. My brother and I have a saying, you know,
• 18:20
  every meeting is a great meeting until you leave the room. Every meeting. And the key is,
• 18:25
  how do you keep them in the room? How do you keep them engaged? How do you keep people talking
• 18:30
  about you? How do you make noise? How do you shut? You know, we're not talking about the brands or
• 18:34
  business. No one else is talking about it. How do you have to micromanage? You got to be a parent
• 18:39
  to the brands. You got to, when they're little, you got to do all the littlest tiny things with a baby.
• 18:44
  You know, you got to wash away to clean them. You got to feed them. You got to make sure they don't
• 18:47
  fall out if the same with brand building. So it's life lessons about how to build something
• 18:53
  and gradually get it to grow. I can't force my eight-year-old to be more than he's an eight-year-old.
• 19:00
  That's what he is. So there's lots of things. When you look at, when you look at even like the brands
• 19:08
  that you have right now, what is the strategy? What's the framework behind?
• 19:15
  This is what we're going to put out into the world. This is the story behind it. This is who I
• 19:21
  want it to resonate with. So I take bamboo. Yeah. So bamboo we launched maybe five or six years ago.
• 19:29
  The goal was, the goal wasn't is I want to create a new level of rum. Premium. I think rum is
• 19:39
  unappreciated. And when you look at it again, it goes back to this idea. If you look at trends,
• 19:45
  and if you ask anybody in our industry, they would say stay away from rum. Well, it's probably going
• 19:50
  to say go to tequila. Correct. Well, that's the hot thing. So rum is not hot and it's declining.
• 19:56
  And you've got these big giant brands like Captain Morgan and Bacardi. And I want to do something
• 20:02
  that's better than them. I think there's a better product out there for consumers. I think there's
• 20:06
  a product that tastes better for them. And it's more premium. And we hit on a taste that we love.
• 20:12
  And then we created a story around it and brought history in. So there's a story around bamboo.
• 20:18
  It back in the 16th century merchants who travel the West Indies, the Caribbean didn't like the taste
• 20:23
  of rum, which they called grog. And they would craft their own out of it. And they would call it
• 20:27
  bamboo. And we brought that back. So once we have all that, then it's it's it's it's push,
• 20:34
  it's birthed into the world. Yeah. But I don't know we have yet. So I kind of let things breathe.
• 20:40
  And you figure it out. So now fast forward, not even fast forward Canada, where you're from,
• 20:47
  is our single biggest market in the world for bamboo, single biggest outside the United States.
• 20:53
  And I jokingly say until this year, no one from our companies ever been there. That's so funny.
• 20:59
  So there was a gap in the market. Well, it's it's a it's a to me. It's always it's not a gap.
• 21:04
  To me, it's it's off with anything. If it's a great brand, people find it. You know what else?
• 21:10
  I've known. So I used to drink a whole bunch of Captain Morgan. That was like my my high school
• 21:16
  drink. That was like go to drink. But there was no story behind it. Nobody gave a shit. It was just like
• 21:22
  the cheap tequila wasn't really that big when I was in like high school university. So it was
• 21:28
  always Captain Morgan. But then the second you find something else, you move off of it because you
• 21:31
  don't really care. There's no affinity to that. There's no story behind it. But you were I think in
• 21:36
  one of the videos I was watching, you were saying that this is in like 30, at least when the video
• 21:41
  was pushed out, there's 35 countries. And you can't even get it in more countries because you're
• 21:47
  always selling out. But actually today, it's in 80 country. Oh shit. Okay. Sorry. No, no, no. But
• 21:52
  it's it's but what's what's fantastic about this story is. And again, it goes back to this idea
• 21:59
  that if you believe in something, it can happen. We're in we're in like 80 countries today.
• 22:06
  And there's only one market in the world. And I didn't even know that's a premium
• 22:11
  run market and that's France. We do well everywhere in the world. And all these markets are not
• 22:18
  premium run markets or they're not even run markets. And we crush it. It's a great brand. If
• 22:24
  your brand is great, it'll get talked about people will find it. They'll consume it. And I also
• 22:30
  believe in premium. It's like your Captain Morgan example. I think premium brands can exist
• 22:36
  everywhere in the world. Cheap brands. It's difficult. When you think about building out a brand,
• 22:41
  do you care if there's going to be like a wave or a cultural shift towards that thing? Or do you
• 22:48
  not care? Do you just want to get a little like, are you banking on rum becoming the next tequila?
• 22:54
  Or do you not care? Maybe you're just thinking I just want to be a significant part of the existing
• 23:00
  market. And we're going to be premium. And we're going to be talked about. We're going to we're going
• 23:03
  to have loyalty from our customers and evangelists from our country. You know what I'm saying?
• 23:08
  I think you you can't can't see the future. But look at Patron. And I always used to laugh when
• 23:16
  people would say, and I get presentations. You know, I want to be the next Patron. You know,
• 23:21
  I just want 1% of the category. And Patron took 30 plus years. So thing, if it happens over
• 23:29
  a night, God bless. But that's not the way it's supposed to be. And I was that person who had that
• 23:35
  report that business plan that said, I'm going to get one percent or five percent of the industry
• 23:40
  and the multiples are, you know, 20 times. And I'm going to sell it for X. That's where I make
• 23:46
  mistakes. That's where people make mistakes. If you have a healthy brand and you're growing,
• 23:50
  you're going to get there no matter what. And when you launch these, these are kind of like
• 23:54
  your kids to a degree. How do you think through?
• 23:57
  As an entrepreneur, because this is very subjective, people could launch a brand and they want to
• 24:01
  hold on to it forever. And they never want to exit it. Never want to sell it. How do you think
• 24:04
  through that? Do I want to keep it? Do I want to sell it? Do I want to? What? I get it goes back
• 24:11
  to this idea that when I was younger, when I started this, my mistake was thinking about the exit
• 24:18
  before you even start. And I think that to me is my mistake. And maybe it's a mistake for a lot
• 24:24
  of people out there. I don't think about that. If it happens great, but I don't think, boy,
• 24:31
  now I'm ready to sell or the brand is mature enough for this is the time. I don't think like that.
• 24:38
  My goal is build the brand. You keep building it either whatever happens will come, but focus on
• 24:47
  brand building. That's the key. Do you feel like when somebody's focusing on the exit first,
• 24:52
  they're trying to take shortcuts or they're not paying attention? They're not built. It's not real.
• 24:56
  It's not, to me, I don't know. I'm that guy who I have to love and have passion for what I'm doing
• 25:05
  because the exit may not ever happen. So you've got to, to me, it's about being in that moment
• 25:10
  of loving what you're doing because exit doesn't matter. That's not the goal. So, and the only
• 25:16
  reason I can say this, Scott is, is and I tell this story to people. So I, I've lost everything
• 25:23
  in this world and I've gained everything by being in this business. So there was a moment where I
• 25:27
  didn't have investors and they wanted to wind up the company. And I remember speaking to my mom,
• 25:34
  we were bringing a board meeting that day and I remember speaking to my mom, who was my hero.
• 25:38
  And I was telling her about it and she says, Brad, I'll sell my all my rings for you. And I
• 25:44
  said, no, I'll figure this out. But I remember telling her, I was sending them Worcester and
• 25:48
  Brum Street and Soho outside because I didn't want that I'd fake apartment, which was my office
• 25:55
  and a couple of employees up there. I remember telling her, I love what I'm doing. And if I could just
• 26:02
  survive, make it up money to live this way and keep doing what I'm doing. I'm happy.
• 26:07
  And I needed that moment because then it's not about the money. It's just I'm happy. I got to
• 26:13
  love what I'm doing and let things come as they go. I love that. I wish more. I wish more
• 26:18
  entrepreneurs would hear that message because I think that this is a great exercise. I don't think
• 26:24
  people actually even realize how much money they actually need to survive. And the things that
• 26:30
  they think are out of their reach or they would only ever get if they were worth pick a number,
• 26:35
  could be 10, 50, 100 million, whatever it is, whatever your number is. The things that you
• 26:40
  actually want in your life are actually not that expensive. And I think the most people threw that.
• 26:45
  The trips, the work life balance that you want to have a private chef, you don't have to have
• 26:49
  a hundred million dollars to do that. I remember I was speaking to a city bank conference about
• 26:53
  disruptive brands. And I was the next person to go on and the person who was up there before me
• 26:59
  had started a company called Casper, the bed company. The mattress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess at that
• 27:05
  time, Casper was one of those unicorns. And he was saying it was crazy. He was saying how
• 27:13
  they're in whatever seven continents they've got 2,000 or 10,000 employees. They're global
• 27:20
  business within a year. And they've raised X billions of dollars. And I remember going up
• 27:25
  afterwards and saying, if you think I'm going to tell that story, I don't know how to do that.
• 27:32
  I don't know how to raise money like that. God bless them. I only know how to do what I've done.
• 27:38
  So there's different paths to get there. But I don't know how to do the other one. I only know
• 27:44
  how I've gotten to where I am. Yeah. But then the question is, like, are you happy? Sure. Oh, 100.
• 27:50
  So that's really all that not 100% that are you happy with 100%? Listen, when I say,
• 27:55
  are you happy? It's not saying that this has not been highly successful to have the reach you've had.
• 28:00
  You've had you've had you've sold brands before and throughout it has been ups and downs.
• 28:05
  But ultimately, you knew your north star. But it's true. And it's you're you're hitting on which I
• 28:10
  try to tell my team all the time. Success is relative. So this is already successful. This is
• 28:16
  doing more than I ever could have imagined or anybody else could ever imagine. So I have to be happy
• 28:21
  with it. It's still small in relative terms compared to other things out there. But I got to be
• 28:26
  happy with it. This Deacon we just launched is in 60 countries. I love the I love the plague mask
• 28:33
  on the. Oh, yeah. That's good. But that's like it's all relative to what you what your own expectations
• 28:40
  are. So I don't want to just like kids, you can't force them. I can't force my son to be better
• 28:46
  at soccer. You know, he is what he is. So you got to be happy with with how far they've come and
• 28:52
  oh, that's why I look at it. A big shout out to HubSpot and the HubSpot podcast network
• 28:57
  for sponsoring success story. If you enjoy success story, you're going to enjoy a ton of podcasts
• 29:02
  brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network, including hustle and flow chart hosted by Joey Fier.
• 29:07
  The hustle and flow chart podcast with Joey is all about how to build a business. So it gives you
• 29:12
  the freedom and fuel for your life. You're going to join Joey as you discuss his systems, mindset
• 29:17
  tweaks, reframes and strategies for entrepreneurs and really anyone to enjoy the process of being
• 29:23
  in business and having fun. This isn't for entrepreneurs looking to build a billion dollar
• 29:28
  business. It's for somebody who wants to build a lifestyle, somebody who is looking to build systems
• 29:32
  that work. Listen to hustle and flow chart wherever you get your podcasts. I think that when I
• 29:38
  think that successful entrepreneurship, if you know your North Star, you know what would make you
• 29:43
  happy and then you can stay in the game long enough. I think that's like the secret. I think a lot
• 29:48
  of people, they have these unrealistic expectations and then the work doesn't align with those expectations
• 29:54
  and then they don't want to stay in the game long enough and then they and then they get nothing
• 29:58
  out of it. But if you can stay in the game long enough, I thought about this a lot. Like if you're
• 30:02
  building any business, if you do it for 10 years, there's a really good chance that you are going
• 30:07
  to be financially quite well off. If you're not an idiot, you've learned from your mistakes,
• 30:11
  you iterate, maybe you pivot a little bit. It's not going to be the same year 10 as it was day one,
• 30:16
  but I don't think you're going to be hurting. I don't know anyone who hurts when they do one thing
• 30:21
  for 10 years, 100%. If anything, that's what I've learned. So if you ask me, Brett, do you still have
• 30:28
  new ideas? I always have ideas, but I don't want to do anything else because I've learned that
• 30:35
  this is what I know best and this is where I've made the most mistakes and I've learned the most.
• 30:40
  So why would I do anything else? It's literally starting over. So if you stick to something for a
• 30:47
  long time, you're going to have success. There's no matter one in 20 plus 20 and still going and
• 30:53
  still growing. When you, one thing that you've done very well, because then I'm doing research and
• 30:58
  I see the people that are sitting around table, drinking all your, like, these like DJ Khaled and
• 31:04
  Rick Ross, I mean, like, the big names, how do you, I think most brands miss this, but how do you
• 31:11
  get a brand to be so tied into culture? That's not easy. I think it's, to me, culture is something
• 31:23
  you can't buy, you can't force yourself into. It just, it evolves. And I think that's what we've
• 31:31
  done as a company. We just keep evolving. We stay true, culture is stay true to yourself,
• 31:37
  you know, and I think that's what we've always been. So if you ask me the things that we do today
• 31:44
  are the same things we've done 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I still lean into music,
• 31:50
  I still love hip hop. The way we brand build the way we, the way we move, it's just a
• 31:57
  natural organic evolution. And that, to me, is culture. Culture today, like, like, we've moved into,
• 32:03
  I use Africa as an example, we're doing great business in Africa. I'm a huge fan of Africa.
• 32:09
  I'm now a huge fan of Afrobeats music in Africa. I'm piano music in Africa. African artists,
• 32:15
  we're leaning into that. Guess what? Culture is also leaning into that. So, but you're as a founder,
• 32:21
  you're not just like, oh, let's pay an influencer. You are actually putting yourself into,
• 32:29
  like, you're learning about Africa, but you're not just saying from a boardroom, let's go find a
• 32:33
  way to spread it across Africa. And let's get this into all these different restaurants or whatever
• 32:37
  or stores in Africa. I mean, you're literally learning more about Afrobeats and music and culture
• 32:43
  yourself. And that's how you win 100%. So to me, it's, I have to go down and get dirty and know what's
• 32:50
  going on in the market. I'm, to the end of this week, I'm going to Asia versus seven visiting
• 32:55
  seven countries. I'll come away with ideas. I'll come away with thoughts by being in the market,
• 33:00
  visiting accounts, talking to people, you got to do that. Yeah. I think that's probably the,
• 33:05
  because people don't want to get their hands dirty. They don't want to get, how do you,
• 33:09
  and oh, go ahead, sir. No, no, I think the most important thing I can do is the head of
• 33:14
  our company is if I'm in the office, I can't accomplish anything. But if I'm in the field,
• 33:19
  that's where I can really accomplish things. And on the flip side of that,
• 33:25
  your understanding culture, your understanding how to integrate this into what's trending or what not.
• 33:30
  When you talk to some of these, like, huge rappers, like a DJ Khaled or a Rick Ross,
• 33:36
  how do you get them on board? Well, I was just going to say, I don't, what I don't do is,
• 33:44
  I don't follow trends. Again, I go back to, it's, to me, it's, it's not about who's hot in music.
• 33:53
  I don't care who does our pretty hot music. I mean, no, but, but I'm not picking people saying,
• 33:59
  gosh, that guy's hot. I really want to connect with him. Everybody that we've ever worked with,
• 34:04
  love the brands, want to be involved with the brands. They love the brand, whether it's a,
• 34:10
  whether they were a small artist at the time, like Post Malone, who loved Bel Air,
• 34:15
  was my first interview as probably one of our first ambassadors. But he just loved the brand.
• 34:21
  Who knew he would turn into what he's become, but it wasn't based on what's hot. It's, it's the,
• 34:29
  it's a real association to the brand. And that's what's important to me. There's so many brands
• 34:35
  talk about authenticity, but I don't think I've ever actually believed that a brand is authentic.
• 34:39
  I'm talking to you. I don't even know how else to describe it. It's like, you just,
• 34:45
  there's no, there's no bullshit in how you take a product and whose hands you put it into and,
• 34:51
  and the communities and the audiences that you, you serve. It's just, we create great products,
• 34:57
  and we just, if people like them, that's awesome. Correct. I think to me, it's, it's,
• 35:04
  it's not going to get you there fast, but to me, it's real. Meaning I, I, I would rather,
• 35:10
  and I think this is about this as me as the consumer. I want to feel like I'm discovering a product.
• 35:16
  I don't want to be, I don't want to be told to take this product. I want to be told to try this.
• 35:22
  I want to feel like I'm discovering. And to me, that's good brand building. Let the person find
• 35:28
  it. Let him discover it. Let him experience it. Let him take ownership of it. I was going to say,
• 35:33
  I don't think a lot of brands do that well. I think they can, I think, again, there's other ways to
• 35:38
  do it. And they have a lot more money than me. And they can get there. But maybe it's not a healthy
• 35:44
  brand. And maybe it's not going to stick around. But to me, all the best brands started small.
• 35:50
  You know, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't in a white lab in, in, in Rye, New York,
• 35:58
  that created it. You know, it was some small little, in the back of your garage built brand.
• 36:05
  That's what's happened. I can't hear great stories about, ever met him, the guy from Under Armour.
• 36:11
  You know, it just, he believes in his brand. You got to believe in it. And that's how brands get built.
• 36:17
  Tell me just very briefly, because I know that Ace of Spades was like, obviously a, a big name,
• 36:24
  a big part of that journey. And you said it was the best and the worst thing that ever happened to
• 36:32
  you. So just tell me the story of how that came to be, because I'm sure people are interested in
• 36:36
  that. So I get, I get that was my first big successful brand. And, and I do, I have five, I have six
• 36:45
  kids in my house. And I treat these brands like they're my children that I have blood, sweat,
• 36:52
  tears, everything's poured into this. So when I did have the opportunity, as you described,
• 36:58
  of selling something, um, at that time, I had one brand, but lots of other brands that I wanted to
• 37:06
  launch, but I didn't have any money. So it's a funny thing in business when you can have a successful
• 37:13
  brand, but you can be poor, because all your money's in that brand, all your money's in that
• 37:19
  thing. And I wanted to do Bel Air. I wanted to do Bumble. I wanted to do other brands. Um, and I
• 37:27
  decided I, I think I could, I should sell this and I can become bigger now. And that's exactly what
• 37:35
  happened. So in one way, it's the worst decision because you're selling a child. And the other way,
• 37:40
  now I'm bigger and stronger and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'll be 10, 100 times the size as, as I was before.
• 37:50
  So that to me is the experience, but that's, that to me is how I got here up the ladder.
• 37:58
  I could I have raised money? Sure, I could have, but then I would have had to take on partners.
• 38:02
  Could I have done other ways to get there? I could have, but there are repercussions to that.
• 38:07
  So to me, this is the way I wanted to do it. I think it's, I think it's great. I think that
• 38:12
  it's hard to let go of something that you built. It is very, very hard. I like, I mean,
• 38:18
  it would be strange for me to think about that through the lens of this podcast, for example. I
• 38:22
  mean, like it's kind of, like I built myself. What is, what if a company, you know, came by and
• 38:28
  said, Hey, we want to buy your podcast, your, your likeness, your IP, and you can stay on as a
• 38:33
  host, but now we own it. I mean, that would be difficult. I'd be very difficult, but strategically,
• 38:38
  maybe that lets me do a ton of other stuff that I wanted to do that I couldn't do. So I think that
• 38:45
  at the end of the day, brands are like a baby, your company's like a baby, but also strategically,
• 38:50
  where can you take this if you get cash? And now look at, now look at what you built with it.
• 38:55
  Correct. So, you know, if you ask me, do I, what I've done it differently, I can't think of it
• 39:02
  that way, because this is how out of your life is journey. Correct. Correct. But there's always a
• 39:07
  tide. I wanted to do well, because I want these brands to live forever. That's my goal is I want
• 39:12
  to live forever and be have their place in the world. I'm, I'm also curious. Why did that name
• 39:20
  becomes such a big name? Asa Spades in particular. What was the thing? I think like anything,
• 39:31
  again, it's such a funny thing because I'm experiencing this with all the brands.
• 39:37
  Time makes brands. It's time. It's, you know, for all the people out there who, you know, for the years
• 39:46
  and years who had never heard of Asa or Monde Briniac, they begin to hear about it and the brand
• 39:51
  bit begins to become bigger and it takes a lot of life of its own. Belair, same thing now,
• 39:57
  Bambu now, you know, the success it's having, people are hearing about it, they're talking about it.
• 40:03
  So it just, it's time. That's when brands start kicking in this time. And when you look at other
• 40:09
  celebrity brands, why do a lot of them not do that well? Some do. Some, I mean, if you look at 90%
• 40:16
  of them fails, like Aviation Gin. That's what I, what was one that, um, uh, the cloney that was a
• 40:22
  cast of, uh, yeah, Casamigos, that one did well. These are like billion dollar and Aviation Gin
• 40:28
  was Ryan Reynolds. It's a billion dollar company. But for every billion dollar company, there's
• 40:33
  probably a whole bunch that didn't do well. So what is the, I think, I think a couple of things,
• 40:39
  I think one timing is everything in that, in sometimes in this space. And I think cloney was
• 40:46
  early in the idea of backing brands. Um, I also think I, I would say most don't work. Um, there's
• 40:56
  tons and tons of celebrity brands that haven't worked. And from what I've seen, it's, they're in
• 41:04
  it for the money and it's not for the love of the brand or building a business. And you know,
• 41:09
  if works great, if it doesn't, who cares? Um, and I think that's why always great brands are,
• 41:16
  again, it's, it's somebody who's, who's putting everything into it, who's made it successful. Um,
• 41:23
  and those are the best brands. Those are always the best brands. Sorry, I was going to say,
• 41:28
  because you see all these influencers trying to launch wine brands and sellers and, and, uh,
• 41:36
  I, I just want like an influencer thought leader, not like mega mega celebrity,
• 41:42
  but somebody that looks at, I'll give you an example. So my better half, Gina, she runs a,
• 41:48
  a meme account called my therapist says, and they were thinking about launching a wine.
• 41:53
  And they haven't done it yet, but I've always thought like, okay, so what do we have to,
• 41:57
  how do we launch? I have no idea how to even start launching a wine. They have a big audience,
• 42:01
  about 8.5 million, uh, women from the ages of like, I don't know, late 20s to late 30s in New
• 42:07
  York, LA Miami. But I don't just want to launch a wine for the sake of launching a wine. Maybe
• 42:13
  it even be better for her to partner with somebody who's starting it and take a small equity position
• 42:19
  and act as their marketing way. But for a creator that does want to launch something, I don't
• 42:24
  want them to just give up. So I have to like appreciate an entrepreneur. So what would be the advice
• 42:29
  that they don't obviously not focus on the money, but then what would be the advice for a creator
• 42:34
  who doesn't want to launch a brand or a liquor or a wine or a spirit? I would, I would say the best
• 42:41
  way I would say it is play devil's advocate with them. You're assuming that you're that once you
• 42:47
  make a post about this, it's going to be successful. So we'll constantly ask the following question,
• 42:53
  what if it doesn't work once you make that post? What are you going to do? What are you going
• 42:59
  to do? Because that's the thing that I think lots of celebrities or anybody with an influencer
• 43:04
  thinks is boy, if I just do a post, if I just show this, if I just do this, maybe the biggest
• 43:11
  basketball player in the world, biggest football player in the world, that's all I have to do.
• 43:15
  But if it doesn't fly day one, what are you going to do? So that's when you have to decide,
• 43:22
  am I willing to get down and dirty? What am I willing to do to make this successful? How deep
• 43:27
  am I willing to go? How much time am I willing to spend on this? Because to me, that's when you know
• 43:33
  if you really want to do something or not. Do you want to get down and dirty? Do you want to go
• 43:38
  visit accounts? When it's not, when it's not easy like that. Yeah, I think that's good advice.
• 43:44
  I think it's an incredible advice because I know a lot, not just influencers themselves,
• 43:50
  but a lot of people who want to partner with influencers, and they just want to say,
• 43:54
  well, what if we just do a few posts? But my example is a real life one. I've had lots of
• 44:01
  famous people, I have known to me, I have no doubt because I would love to do something and
• 44:07
  my person, that's always my first question. What are you going to do? And they're shocked when
• 44:12
  they say, when I say, what if it doesn't work on their first post, they're shocked because
• 44:16
  everyone should think what's this expression, their shit doesn't sting. It does.
• 44:20
  And if it doesn't work, what are you going to do? And probably I could name nine or ten that have
• 44:28
  gone off and launched it. And guess what? It didn't work. Didn't work. Do you take on like JVs,
• 44:35
  like join Fantras with celebrities or no? No, no, no. I'm always interested. I'm always curious
• 44:43
  and it always comes back to, why do they want to do it? Like, and again, God bless them,
• 44:49
  if they can get the money, if they can get the partnership, if someone's willing to do something,
• 44:53
  and all the time I tell my friends who manage artists or manage people,
• 44:58
  if you can get it, take it. But for me, it's, I got to spend the next five,
• 45:04
  10 years building something, you know, and my brands, you know, this deacon, this is not going to
• 45:10
  be truly successful in my opinion for another eight, nine years. It's a different, it's a different
• 45:17
  way to look at it. But I'm willing to wait. I don't mind the ride. I'm fine with it. I'm fine.
• 45:23
  Brands take time. I think that such a healthy way to look at business building, brand building,
• 45:29
  I think that doesn't even matter. Celebrity, influencer, everybody's attention span and, and
• 45:36
  everybody wants instant gratification in anything, 100% and I think that kills entrepreneurship.
• 45:41
  I think it kills business, it kills brands for sure. It's not that it even kills it. It's just
• 45:45
  impossible. It's just impossible unless you are like horseshoe up your ass lucky. It is virtually
• 45:52
  impossible to build anything worthwhile in a short period of time or, or put differently. I don't
• 45:58
  know how to do it. That's it. Like they're there, but if I add hundreds of millions of dollars,
• 46:04
  I wouldn't know how to meaning to put into marketing and feel like maybe there's a way to do it.
• 46:10
  I just wouldn't know how to do it because that's not how I've done it. Play something. The second
• 46:13
  you take on, you've built out a great business and you're not killing yourself. You also have a
• 46:19
  family and you also have balance and you also take care of your kids and so when you start
• 46:24
  taking on money, all of a sudden there's pressure and now like people don't just put in money
• 46:30
  to get like a two X in 10 years. VCs put in money to get like a 10 X as soon as possible. I had
• 46:38
  that early on and that's why they wanted to wind it up because they weren't getting the return
• 46:44
  that they wanted. So they didn't want to do this and I looked at it as God have learned so much.
• 46:48
  Like we're just getting started. Like we're figuring, yes, we made mistakes, but I'm learning
• 46:53
  and that's the key to this is you keep learning, keep making mistakes, keep trying shit,
• 46:58
  but but but you probably feel the difference in how you build a business now versus when you took
• 47:04
  VC money. You not feel less pressure. Oh, 100% yeah, 100%. Again, this sort of takes us back to
• 47:11
  as an entrepreneur. Like what do you want in your life? Because now you have now you have
• 47:15
  balance and just talk to me about that. Talk to me about the balance and maybe the guard rails
• 47:21
  that you put on your work life. Oh, it's a good question. I'd say I'm just as driven. I'm just as
• 47:36
  you know, anything I'm a perfectionist, anything negative eats and kills me and it ruins me.
• 47:43
  Nothing's changed. The balance comes from there's no question having security helps in life.
• 47:50
  That's where the balance comes in because you have, I have something that that hopefully
• 47:57
  take away from me. It creates calmness where I have to be reminded this constantly where
• 48:04
  where we've achieved something. But my family is critical to me because to me,
• 48:13
  I learned from them about building brands. I tell a story. I always joke about this. So my son
• 48:18
  is 10. He's great at math. He's wicked at reading. And my daughter is nine. She is a great artist.
• 48:31
  She can draw. She can write. She's fantastic in art. My son is a horrible artist. He's just horrible.
• 48:38
  My daughter can't remember anything and can't, doesn't read well. What do you do his parents?
• 48:44
  You lean in on what they're good at and you backfill later. That's brand building. That's building
• 48:49
  a business. It's taught me. You lean in on what's working and you try to support over time what's
• 48:56
  now working. That's how you build a business. I love that. But I wouldn't have known that until I
• 49:01
  let the brands go, let the kids, you learn about your kids, you learn in Canada, we crush it, lean
• 49:07
  into it, lean into where it's working. In the US, Bel Air, there's a saying in our industry,
• 49:14
  you build it on premise bars and restaurants to sell it off-premise at retail. Bel Air retail,
• 49:19
  day one, people lofted it. We lean in the retail. We still haven't focused on on premise bars
• 49:24
  restaurant. Really? Yeah. So how long has this been in the month? 10 years? Yeah. But there's so much
• 49:29
  out there. There's so many. But that's where we learn what's working, what doesn't,
• 49:33
  Deakin right now in Japan is flying. What are we going to do? We're going to lean in there.
• 49:39
  It's always, again, you don't know what you have until you put it out in the world then you figure
• 49:44
  it out. But you have to be open to those signals from the market, from the world that you have to
• 49:49
  be. Because I think that also entrepreneurs, they try and do too much and they try and do everything
• 49:55
  and be everything to everyone. And this is where I remember watching the Michael Jordan
• 50:03
  the Netflix. Yeah. Duck the series. And Phil Jackson said, you know, you got to constantly pivot.
• 50:11
  And it's true. Business is constantly pivoting, constantly evolving, constantly moving, constantly
• 50:16
  learning. And to me, that's how you get there. That's it. It's, it's, again, letting things
• 50:30
  breathe and figuring out, I remember here's a good analogy. I was interviewing, he's an artist named
• 50:35
  Russ. Russ told me that in his early days, he'd be on SoundCloud and he would see that he had
• 50:43
  fans in the state of Washington. He's like, I'm going to Washington. I'm going to go show them
• 50:49
  love and support because I fans there. He'd see it, he had fans in Dubai in the Middle East because
• 50:54
  they thought he was Middle Eastern. He's not. He's from Jersey. But he'd go there and support
• 50:59
  his fans. That's brand building. That's brand building. Take what you get. Don't try to force.
• 51:05
  It's not coming from New York. Don't worry about it. If it's coming from somewhere else,
• 51:08
  you build around that. That's what we try to do. What do you, what do you do to,
• 51:13
  and this that's brand building, but create a great product. I mean, acetase, good,
• 51:18
  has to, has to head home. What's the process of creating a great product that you think people
• 51:23
  love? You like, ask a whole bunch of people, sample it out. What do you do? We,
• 51:29
  well, this, we trust our gut and their instinct. Yeah, you just didn't do this for so long that
• 51:35
  it's not bad. It's, it's just, it's, if you were in our Chicago office,
• 51:43
  it's happened to be by, and I'd say, it's got come in. I got an tape shot and something.
• 51:47
  We're going to take a shot and tell them, what do you think? What do you think?
• 51:50
  So it's not based on, it's, it's tried at the end of the day. Again, it goes back to this
• 51:55
  idea. If anybody, if anybody's going to fuck it up, it has to be me. It has to because I have,
• 52:00
  but I think Bumble was better than every other room from a taste. I think our package speaks
• 52:05
  to something. Our story speaks to something. Deakin takes better than any other whiskey out
• 52:10
  there. Irish, American Japanese, Canadian, we taste, but I believe it. I can sell something. I
• 52:18
  believe it. That's it. That's it. That's the most important. I spoke a little bit about
• 52:25
  social media, but also how influencers can't just, we spoke about it from the context of influencers
• 52:31
  trying to launch brand, but obviously you, you kill it on social. So social is a big
• 52:37
  opportunity. I also, you got to check out, like if people are listening, got to go check out
• 52:42
  your podcast. So I mean, you interview some of the biggest, you know, musicians, artists,
• 52:47
  rappers, celebrities. So phenomenal podcast. But how do you think about social when it comes to
• 52:54
  brand building? To me, so we don't advertise, we don't do traditional advertising. And to me,
• 53:01
  what social media does, it gives me a barometer of my brands having success, because I'm not
• 53:07
  buying the consumer. I'm not buying fans. So to me, it's an authentic way to see. And if I use
• 53:14
  again, my brands, bamboo as more followers in Captain Morgan and McCarty, those are billion
• 53:19
  dollar brands. And I have more followers. I am doing something right. I'm connecting with the
• 53:24
  consumer. They want to be attached to me. They want to see the brands. They want to see what's
• 53:29
  happening. So to me, it's working that way. I love influencers. I think everybody's an influencer.
• 53:36
  It could be a bartender. It could be someone you meet on the street. Doesn't matter who it is.
• 53:41
  But the key, the key is to support your fans. And that's what we try to do is support everybody
• 53:46
  who's supporting us. How do you, how do you get that authenticity through social? Because to,
• 53:53
  by the way, that's phenomenal. I didn't know you had more followers. No, it's and beller to beller
• 53:57
  has more probably than any other liquor brand. If I add up, it's, it's a couple Instagram sites.
• 54:02
  But that, that, that shows we, we, it's authentic. It's real from the consumer perspective.
• 54:12
  But to me, it's, it's, it's, it's always about showing love to people who support you. You know,
• 54:20
  I was talking about the whiskey or in Japan. We have all these bartenders who are now, or
• 54:25
  taste makers who are now tasting and drinking Deakin who are putting it out there. We're supporting
• 54:31
  them. I want to show them off. I want people to see them and try and light on them. It's always
• 54:36
  about trying to shine the light back on those who love us. And that's how, that's how you win.
• 54:41
  That's how you win. Because you're not just, you're not, I mean, if people look, look up your
• 54:46
  YouTube, for example, you see all these big stars. But that's not the only people that you're
• 54:50
  supporting. It's not just the big stars. It's the, it's the bartender that's, that I got it.
• 54:56
  I got it. And, and I think too many brands do focus on like the a list talent. And not everybody
• 55:03
  else that really is influential. Because who do you listen to? Do you listen to the bartender?
• 55:07
  Like, if I see, I, I love DJ Khaled. But if I see the DJ Khaled, okay, I'm a little bit influenced.
• 55:15
  But if I'm at a bar and the bartender tells me what to drink, that's who I listen to.
• 55:20
  Correct. So the way I look at it is, I'll use a nifty analogy. Um, he said, Brett, you got to go
• 55:27
  pop your trunk. And I said, nifty, what does that mean? It, it means I'm going to go down to
• 55:32
  Compton. I'm going to take my car. I'm going to pop my trunk and sell my goods, sell it.
• 55:37
  You got to be able to get down and dirty. I'm an old school brand builder. I believe I've got to
• 55:42
  get into the bars, get into the restaurants, get in, meet the retailers, go out and sell my brands.
• 55:48
  That's how brands are built. You just, it's door to door. And all the other stuff helps. But
• 55:54
  that's the most important thing I can do is convince somebody that might, and I'm going to taste
• 55:58
  you. I want to taste you on it. I want you to try your, what a competitor and I guarantee you,
• 56:03
  I've got a better product. It's old school. I'm going to be able to do that anymore. But that's
• 56:08
  what we're, but all the, all the other stuff helps. Social media helps and, and, uh, you know,
• 56:13
  everything else we do helps. But I believe it's the most important thing you can do. And
• 56:18
  that, to me, hasn't, the industry hasn't changed. I still think that's where it's constant.
• 56:22
  Like, I, I believe that shit. I believe it. I firmly believe it. So give me, like,
• 56:28
  paying a picture. So you, you just, uh, did a tour through Europe. And you mentioned that you're
• 56:32
  doing a tour through Asia as well. So you will spend as little time in the, in the office as
• 56:37
  possible when you're going on these tours. What are you doing? I'm meeting with our importer. And so
• 56:42
  that's, that's, we have an importer who manages our brands in those countries. So when I go to
• 56:47
  Japan, my first goal is I want to meet everybody, all the sales team, everybody possible and tell
• 56:52
  our brand stories because I want them to hear it from me. And then I want to go visit the accounts
• 56:55
  of them. I want to see the accounts. I want to see the buyers, either accounts that already
• 56:59
  supporting our brands because I want to thank them because that's the most brand I could do.
• 57:03
  Or take me to the accounts that they want to win over. And let me tell the story of our brands
• 57:08
  so that can share our story. Um, and that's those are the back to the basics of brand building,
• 57:16
  of getting out there. That's what I have to do. How many other CEOs do this? Um, I, I don't think
• 57:24
  many. I mean, I don't want you to talk bad about other companies. That's not, that's not the goal.
• 57:29
  I think that maybe they send somebody, send an account manager. And of course, there's scale to
• 57:34
  this. Like I mean, like if you are a multinational CEO, as to, if you're a publicly traded company,
• 57:39
  a CEO, as to manage a company, but I think for as long as you possibly can, the lesson is like
• 57:46
  boots on the ground, do the hard work, shake the hands, kiss the babies, whatever you got to do
• 57:52
  in person. I think that makes a big difference. Yeah. What do they say about politics, retail politics,
• 57:56
  right? Get in the market. It's true, though. But, but again, there's other ways to build companies
• 58:01
  and brands. I just know the way I've been doing it and the way I want to do it. I think people
• 58:06
  over index on the other way, people over index on the no human to human interaction that doing
• 58:13
  everything online, the figuring out the perfect ad spend and the perfect channels. And yes, it works.
• 58:19
  But I think the X factor, the, the, the, the, the entrepreneur motor and what people call the
• 58:26
  founder mode is doing things that that don't scale until they do. And I think that that's why you're
• 58:31
  successful. And I think of more entrepreneurs, especially at the beginning, did it the way you do
• 58:35
  right now? I think that I'm more success, like actually stepping into offices and, and, and rooms.
• 58:42
  I think it's, well, it's, to me, it's the most important thing to me. It's, at least it,
• 58:49
  it, it, it, it solidifies for me how I hope I would think the world is, you know, is, is somebody,
• 58:57
  it's, I tell my team all the time. It's like building an army. But when I think about it,
• 59:02
  I always, I use my team as an example in Latvia. So the country of Latvia is like two million
• 59:08
  people in Latvia. This is the fastest growing brand in Latvia, bamboo, fastest growing brand.
• 59:15
  Rum doesn't even really exist there where the most expensive product, fastest growing brand,
• 59:21
  we're crushing it. But I know why? Because when I selected it, when we, we had an importer in the
• 59:27
  market, and that importer brand manager was, was this guy named Janis. And Janis loved the brand.
• 59:34
  And it's because of him. So he's just like me, got behind the brand and just went out and sold it.
• 59:40
  Now Janis is our, our regional director manages a whole bunch of countries. But I can point to people
• 59:45
  who've made the difference. And I, and this is why I always say, people, if you believe in something,
• 59:49
  you can do anything. You can believe, you can sell anything. And we try to build a team of people
• 59:54
  like this. I think that's, that's why you've been successful for sure. When you look back over
• 1:00:00
  your career, what were some of the most important lessons that you've learned as an entrepreneur?
• 1:00:06
  What are the things that you really stuck out with you? Oh, it's all these sayings.
• 1:00:13
  It's the, the, the lessons is, again, it's these sayings that I tell my team and hold true today.
• 1:00:25
  Don't, if you're, if you're waiting for somebody, you're always getting to be hating.
• 1:00:29
  Don't rely on anybody. You got to do it yourself. You got to do it yourself. Trust your God.
• 1:00:35
  Don't, if anybody's going to fuck it up, it's got to be you. It's got to be me.
• 1:00:41
  Try, you know, I learned, you know, in these interviews I've done with artists. And I love
• 1:00:46
  asking this question because it reinforces this idea. I always ask an artist what their most
• 1:00:52
  successful commercial song, biggest hit they've ever had. Did you think it was going to be successful?
• 1:00:58
  Every one of them said, no, I didn't like the song. We didn't want to put it out. No one like
• 1:01:03
  that we shouldn't have done it. We did it anyway. Guess what happened? It was a huge success.
• 1:01:08
  And what that teaches me is you got to try shit. You got to try stuff because a lot of times most
• 1:01:14
  time we overanalyze everything. We overthink about everything. So for me, it's, it's not one thing
• 1:01:19
  that's made as successful. It's lots of things, trying lots of things, not betting the farm at
• 1:01:25
  any one area because it's like, it's like that idea that everybody thinks I've got the thing
• 1:01:31
  that'll go viral. It never goes viral. You never know what's going to go viral, but you got to
• 1:01:35
  try a whole bunch of shit. Maybe something will work. You know, the concept of self-made. So,
• 1:01:40
  why is that concept so important to you? Because I think it's the reason I do these interviews is
• 1:01:54
  I hate hearing people's success stories. I hate it because that it sounds so easy. I like hearing
• 1:02:02
  about the shit that they went through to get there if they're honest about it. I think when I
• 1:02:08
  tell things like I lost my apartment and I stopped paying my mortgage and I got four closed
• 1:02:14
  down or I stopped paying my taxes to the IRS and they swept my bank account because I could
• 1:02:18
  I could put more money back in the business or all the horror stories. I think that's motivating
• 1:02:25
  for the the the young person in me who wants to start a business. It's not easy. And I think if
• 1:02:32
  you tell the not easy side, the hard side is more important than me telling about how great these
• 1:02:40
  fricking brands are. I want people to know no one believes in them because it's true. That's the
• 1:02:44
  normal that's the normal way businesses built. So, to me, that's the idea of self-made. I've been
• 1:02:50
  through shit, but I got there. And I think that's the motivating side. I think I mean, so you don't
• 1:02:57
  you don't really interview entrepreneurs, but I guess I guess like an artist would be an entrepreneur
• 1:03:01
  to a degree. But I was going to the question was really like, what are what? I mean, has anybody
• 1:03:09
  who you've interviewed traditional entrepreneur or an artist who's also an entrepreneur have any of
• 1:03:14
  them had an easy path at all? They all that's the beauty of it. They all have their stories. They all
• 1:03:21
  have, you know, whether it's psychological, whether it's a parent who just doesn't believe in you,
• 1:03:26
  whether I remember Steve Aoki telling me the story of his dad, you know, and my God, you know,
• 1:03:31
  it's tall. He had a tough time with this guy that like we all have this shit we've been through
• 1:03:36
  to get there. And I think those stories of the stories were telling because you got to fight
• 1:03:43
  through that stuff. And I think there's nuggets. I remember one, I don't even know who it is now,
• 1:03:48
  way in rude. And he said, Brett, you know, I just got my first department and I only have half the
• 1:03:53
  furniture out. I need, I said, why is this because I don't want to feel comfortable? I don't
• 1:03:58
  feel comfortable. I feel like I need to keep, you know, striving. I like that. Like that's, you
• 1:04:03
  know, it's so funny what people do to motivate themselves. Yeah. And for me, and this is why I
• 1:04:09
  jokingly say this is when I interview people, it's, it's for me. Yeah. It's motivated. I started
• 1:04:16
  this podcast. Yeah. It's motivating. I love hearing. I don't know, you know, like, I don't know
• 1:04:21
  Mark Cuban story. But I'm assuming there's hopefully some shit he went through to get there,
• 1:04:27
  you know, or maybe it was really easy. But hearing that guy get out of the stage and talk about
• 1:04:32
  Casper and how they raised billions of dollars, they wanted to sound like they've always been
• 1:04:38
  successful. Like I have no one I'm doing and I know how to get there. I want to hear the
• 1:04:43
  shit he went through because I can appreciate that. That's the fight. I want the fight side.
• 1:04:49
  I think the thing is everybody has gone through that at the end of the day. But that's the side
• 1:04:53
  they got to tell. Yeah. But that's the side they're scared to talk about. That's what that's a
• 1:04:56
  makes it human. That's that makes it a fun journey. I mean, no, I don't know a single. I mean,
• 1:05:01
  I've also introduced tons of entrepreneurs. I don't know a single one who I actually got the
• 1:05:06
  story out of. There's people that bullshit, but I don't know a single one who actually had an
• 1:05:10
  easy journey. And I think that when you tell stories like that, it's important because then for
• 1:05:15
  a younger generation of entrepreneurs, the expectations are real. And I just had a
• 1:05:21
  podcast earlier today about the mental health of entrepreneurs. What happened? I was actually
• 1:05:26
  super sad. There's a guy who had a 100 person company. And it was about the company was buying
• 1:05:32
  like a fixed-repper homes or whatever. And then interest rates went up. So he couldn't, he had
• 1:05:37
  to lay everyone off and he committed suicide. Yeah, I could, but I could because his whole identity
• 1:05:41
  was wrapped up in this company. And all of a sudden, he didn't have the company anymore,
• 1:05:45
  and he didn't have a network of people to talk to. He killed himself. I, I yep, 100% 100%. So it's
• 1:05:53
  just like having more real conversation. Like, little like the funny thing. Okay, mortgage,
• 1:06:00
  lose the, lose the apartment, not paying taxes. So you can put the money into the business.
• 1:06:05
  Like, these are all things that entrepreneurs have thought of or dealt with at some point.
• 1:06:08
  I just need to get this thing to work, right? And then everything will be okay. But it's just
• 1:06:12
  about surviving in this world long enough until the thing works. And I think for me, when I really
• 1:06:18
  think about it, and I'm trying too lately, I think for, if you ask me, Brad, why did you just stop?
• 1:06:24
  I think it's fear. It's fear. You look, I fear of looking bad, fear of, I failed, fear of
• 1:06:32
  it now working. Like just, or I joked my mom, who's 94 now, who's just, as I said, is my hero.
• 1:06:40
  She's fearless and clueless. And I think those are the same thing. And when you're younger,
• 1:06:46
  sometimes you're just, you know, you're, you're, you're a little both. You don't know any better.
• 1:06:50
  So for me, it was just pure fear. I have to make this work. Otherwise, what the hell am I going to do?
• 1:06:57
  Um, and it is scary. It is scary because your identity, your whole life is involved in this.
• 1:07:04
  Um, but I think that, you're right. I think that's the healthy side. Hearing about the crap side
• 1:07:09
  is a healthy side. The most healthy, because it, it shows it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy.
• 1:07:15
  It's not supposed to happen fast. But does, you're lucky. Yeah, but you are lucky if it happens
• 1:07:20
  fast. It doesn't happen fast or 99.99% of people, right? Did you have people, like when you
• 1:07:26
  think, go back to when you lost your condo or mortgage or any of this shit that happened,
• 1:07:31
  did you have people around you or were you just like headstrong, figuring this shit out on your
• 1:07:36
  own? Because I find that also, if you have a little group of people that can help too. But
• 1:07:40
  well, I, I had my father saying your nuts, don't do this. I had my brother or was my oldest
• 1:07:44
  brother's an attorney saying, don't do this. You're not my helpful at all. No, but they're
• 1:07:49
  having helpful in their own way, meaning they're looking out for me. But it's my mother. My mother
• 1:07:54
  was there, you know, was she's always been, she's fearless. She, she, I can do anything.
• 1:08:08
  But you need people like this. My wife, you need people like this who were there for you in
• 1:08:17
  good times and bad times. And that's the other thing. I tell people all the time, you got to find
• 1:08:24
  one person, one person who, at least one who's going to be there for you in both of those experiences.
• 1:08:32
  Because you need people to pick you up. You need people to, to, to, to motivate you to, to get
• 1:08:40
  you through that day. That's just as important. I, I think that that is, that is a huge ex-factor
• 1:08:47
  in entrepreneurship. But I invited to have like Gina wasn't around when I get shit news or something
• 1:08:52
  bad happens or like she just pulls you out of it, helps you zone out. You just understand that
• 1:08:59
  that issue is not that big an issue. But if you don't have that person, you get, as
• 1:09:04
  especially as an entrepreneur, you get stuck in your own thoughts. And you, and it's very easy to
• 1:09:08
  spiral. But, but it's also, and I think about this, I have a big sales meeting coming up and,
• 1:09:14
  and I'm thinking about what I'm going to say to him. I was telling my wife and the car up here.
• 1:09:21
  My job is to motivate. My job is to be a cheerleader. That's any entrepreneur. You, because
• 1:09:28
  you know, you're an entrepreneur to me as somebody who's doing something that others wouldn't do
• 1:09:34
  or, or, or these brands shouldn't work or you're going against something. So you've got to convince,
• 1:09:41
  other people are going through the same crap you are at a different level. You've got to convince
• 1:09:44
  them. You've got to motivate them. You've got to appreciate them. Like that's, that's our job.
• 1:09:49
  Yeah, I love it. Um, so what's, what's the, what's next for you, man? What's, where's the future going
• 1:09:55
  with this? Patience. There kind of, there's no rush. We have our five brands, Bel Air,
• 1:10:03
  bamboo, uh, the own McQueen, our gin, the owner, our, it's in the Cognia category. And now,
• 1:10:10
  Deek it in, in whiskey. Um, I have more brands I want to do, but I'm not in a rush because I'm a
• 1:10:16
  big believer in that, uh, you, if, if each of these is successful, it's easier the next time.
• 1:10:22
  And it'll be easier the next time, um, uh, growing our business. I'm trying to convince the world
• 1:10:30
  that, uh, uh, brands like this can be global and it's working, um, where I want to be in all
• 1:10:37
  these countries because I believe if you're in New York today, drinking bamboo and you go to Miami
• 1:10:42
  tomorrow, you don't change brands. You want the same brand. If you go to Paris, the next day, you
• 1:10:46
  want the same brand. If you go to Kazakhstan, the next day, you want the same brand. So that's my
• 1:10:51
  goal is people have to do a better job with that because if I go somewhere else, I'd drink a lot
• 1:10:56
  of tequila. If I go somewhere else, I was in Europe last summer. I couldn't get tequila anywhere.
• 1:11:02
  Or you couldn't even get your brand. I definitely will get my brand. So that's why I believe in
• 1:11:06
  global, which it goes against, you know, what most people think, you know, stick big companies. I
• 1:11:11
  don't have a tequila. Uh, we'll do one. We'll do one. We'll do one. But I'm not again, this is where I,
• 1:11:20
  I made a decision a long time ago. I wanted all fast, but I know it's not the way it works. I'm
• 1:11:27
  very excited for, I'm not new, but different champagne. That's what I'm actually very excited for.
• 1:11:35
  It's not a huge fan of some of the household names that have been around for a long time.
• 1:11:40
  You got to try our beller. It's fantastic. Fantastic. But I love it. I love my brands. I love my team.
• 1:11:48
  I love what we're trying to build. You're a great, you're a great version of entrepreneurship.
• 1:11:52
  I love that. Because I see a lot of people that are trying to speed run through entrepreneurship
• 1:11:57
  and they burn out and they lose themselves. They lose their health and their wellness,
• 1:12:00
  mental physical. They lose their families. They lose their wives. You gotta, for me, it is,
• 1:12:05
  and I get I was there's no question. I was in the first five, six years, uh, a different person
• 1:12:12
  I am today, but it's because I accept it. I love what I'm doing and I'm perfectly fine doing
• 1:12:18
  it at whatever level. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Where do you see the industry going? It's a,
• 1:12:25
  it's a big question. I there's always going to be new trends. You know, we had a huge RTD
• 1:12:31
  trend, you know, not a low alcohol RTD's ready to drink. Everybody jumped in. There's a huge
• 1:12:38
  flushing this system, but that'll stay non alcoholic is becoming popular. Do you think that's going
• 1:12:44
  to keep up? Oh, I think it has a place. I think it has a place. I just, again, I think I'm just
• 1:12:52
  not a trend person. It doesn't matter to you. Yeah. I think I want to, I want to create our own
• 1:12:57
  trends. So I want to do our way. So I believe in that. But what the beauty of this business is
• 1:13:07
  they're, they're a brand, a great brand is a badge of honor. You wear it. And that's what I
• 1:13:14
  love about it is I appreciate brands. Whether they're mine or somebody else's, I appreciate brands.
• 1:13:19
  Yeah. What would be, uh, one thing that I didn't ask you about that would be good for upcoming
• 1:13:25
  entrepreneurs. I think, I think this is a good one, which I get asked, what's it like work with
• 1:13:31
  family? That's true. I love it. I actually love it. I think once we defined roles,
• 1:13:40
  so I work with my brother, actually I work with all my brothers now and my nephew.
• 1:13:46
  If you have defined roles, that's the key. Meaning everyone's got a responsibility,
• 1:13:53
  but the beauty of working with family is I know they're going to work just as hard as me. I know
• 1:13:58
  that they're going to, uh, they're going to, uh, do everything they can. I can trust them. I
• 1:14:05
  rely on them. And what we've also done, even though I, we can, it's, I guess it's a family company,
• 1:14:11
  we treat everybody the same. So, uh, all the employees I treat them the same, their family. We
• 1:14:18
  don't treat anybody different. Uh, I remember I used my brother Blake as the example. He's going to
• 1:14:23
  commit for saying this, but, uh, he's a salesman in Chicago. And I think he, all he had to do was
• 1:14:29
  sell three more cases to hit his true bonus. He could have just fucking bought the three cases in
• 1:14:35
  the market. He didn't do it. So he didn't get it. So we treat everybody the same, everybody the same.
• 1:14:41
  So funny. But I mean, you have to say, that's the thing about family businesses. So, I mean,
• 1:14:47
  if you don't set these boundaries, you have to send everybody a lot of emotions get involved in
• 1:14:54
  that business real quick. Yeah. But the thing you do have is you have trust. You have this explicit
• 1:15:00
  trust. This super beautiful and you've ever hired people that aren't in your family, which would
• 1:15:06
  be anybody who's hired most anybody. Trust is a big thing. And it's hard. It's hard. It takes time
• 1:15:12
  to build that trust and you're a family. Hopefully you have trust right out of the gate. To me,
• 1:15:17
  it's what I get from them is work ethic. Like I know they're going to work. They'll be days and
• 1:15:24
  weeks that I won't talk to my brother. Um, but it's not when we're very different, but it's not
• 1:15:28
  because we don't want to talk to each other is he's doing his thing. And when he has got something
• 1:15:32
  he wants to raise, and they'll call me and I'll do the same thing. And that's, that's the key.
• 1:15:38
  And if you can translate that to everybody in your company, it works beautifully amazing. Okay,
• 1:15:42
  where, where should people go connect with you? Check out your brands. You have an awesome YouTube
• 1:15:47
  channel too. Me, Brettbearer CEO on Instagram, we use our Instagram sites for everything, uh,
• 1:15:53
  official Bel Air, original bamboo, Deakin whiskey, McQueen, uh, uh, and the Violet Park
• 1:16:00
  gin, veal, cognac, uh, France. Um, by the way, I'll put all the links and, and show notes too.
• 1:16:08
  And if you do, I think on your Instagram, you have the handles of all the brands as well. And,
• 1:16:13
  and to buy them, I mean, I saw that you can actually order them online. I'm online in the
• 1:16:18
  S, um, direct on our, you just go through the Instagram pages and you'll want to check any of
• 1:16:23
  these out. But if you can also pick them up, I'm assuming wherever you buy liquor. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:16:28
  Any liquor stores, any bars and restaurants, and if they don't have it, ask for it. Yeah.
• 1:16:32
  Exactly. That's the secret. You have to ask for it. Even if you know they don't. Good.
• 1:16:38
  Last thing, you know, you had an incredible career, different seasons to your career as well.
• 1:16:43
  If you go back and you tell, you want to tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would that
• 1:16:46
  thing be? Don't rely on anybody. You can't, you got to do everything yourself. You got to
• 1:16:52
  assume that it's the biggest mistake I've ever made because it always happens. And if I'm waiting
• 1:16:58
  for somebody to, to, to make something happen, I'll always be waiting. If they come through fantastic,
• 1:17:04
  but don't wait. And I think, I think that, and the other one that people make mistakes all the time
• 1:17:11
  is if you, you're just setting yourself up to fail, if you ask somebody their opinion,
• 1:17:17
  what do you think of this? What do they get this idea? What do you think? You're just opening
• 1:17:21
  yourself up. And the key is sometimes you just, you can't ask. You just got to go do it.
• 1:17:26
  Just go do it. Or be prepared, be prepared. I mean, they're going to say something negative,
• 1:17:31
  but maybe they'll teach you something little, it's something that you hadn't thought of.
• 1:17:34
  I would have thought that they're just like empty platitudes and they would have just said something
• 1:17:37
  positive just to, I guess it depends who you ask. Yeah. But you, I think, you know, it's,
• 1:17:45
  hey, still go back to, don't rely on anybody. It's not a defensive thing. It just, it helps you.
• 1:17:51
  It helps you realize, I got to go make this shit happen myself. I got to go make it happen.
• 1:17:56
  I have to make it happen. That's the key.