Latest / Pod Therapy / #433: AI in Grad School, Karate Trauma, Dad Makes Me Sad

Transcript

#433: AI in Grad School, Karate Trauma, Dad Makes Me Sad · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Is this is this when you're gonna brag about beating
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: an eight year old?
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I beat the shit out of her. I mean it's
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: not even close. Oh good, all right, I fucked everybody
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: in my family up in pickleball, and I just dominated.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not just swatting into the corners and shit. Just
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: standing in the kitchen is knocking it down. Baby.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: They couldn't stop me from fabulous Las Vegas Mata.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: This is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: You can submit your questions and I'm gonna save pod
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: therapy dot nets or email us at pod therapy guys
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from the hashtag
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: save tests. And if there's time Peter Studios, and if
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: there's time, that's Jim when he's not here, I'm Nick.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: It's time for some pod therapy.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Well everybody, uh, long time therap producer of the show,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: our buddy Tests who's been on the show before. You
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: know her, you love her? Uh, going through it right now.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Turns out fires in Canada like to burn people's houses down,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: So we are doing a save test campaign. Jump over
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: to our patreon Patreon dot com slash therapy it is
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: unlocked for all all to see. The post is available.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: That's why her gofund me is in Canadian money.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: That's why I thought she was doing a bit, not
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: a bit. I thought she was doing it.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: You thought you thought she burns her house down for
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: a bit, just a bit. She's trying to get some
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Canadian money. Need a little bit. It's useful. I'm sure
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: us money worth anymore. The canadianody's probably worth a good,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: good bit.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Patron dot com slash there. But you can see the
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: safe test campaign. Support our buddy tests. I love that
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the community is coming alongside and everybody's been really really
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: supportive and loving to her.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: We've tried to save Peter.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: We've given up on Peter.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's pointless.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not safe work.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Harder to save Peter than Peter needs to work to
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: save himself. Okay, I feel like that's our philosophy on
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: this show.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: We've been enabling Peter.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: You know what we have. It's Peter needs to hit
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: rock pop pre contemplative stage of change. We gotta let
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: him hit the crowd. Then he'll bounce. That's what's gonna happen.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: So Peter, We're still here. For you, buddy, we are
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the word.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: We are again. Peter situation.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: She's out of town, man, this is your chance. She's
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: got I got the cameras on him at all times.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: She knows. But anyway, if.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: You'd like to hear about my fabulous horse riding weekend,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: go to patreon dot com slash Therapy. Join the pre
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: show hangout, available every week. We released the early show
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: on Wednesdays. You get to hear the extended show with
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: our pre show hangout every single week patreon dot com
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: slash therapy. And hey, it's April. We are getting close
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: to Mental Health Awareness Month that's coming out here in
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: May every May. And we've got some great projects that
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: are gonna be launching at patreon dot com slash therapy,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: some secret projects that we're gonn announce as soon as
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: May kicks off, but we are already working on them
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: in the background. Things we have never before done on
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the show, some behind the scenes ship lots of anal
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: well okay, never before done which okay, lots okay, yeah yeah, yeah,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear the qualifier. Yeah lot, yeah, yeah, more
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: than we've done previously, like picture as much as you'd expect. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: double it, yeah yeah yeah, get to a point where
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you're like, I'm uncomfortable with this amount, and then double
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: it again. Patreon dot com slash therapy Support Mental Health.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Do that.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It'd be great to have you join the therap party
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: for the year. Come join us, sign up for a year,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: and get.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: To hang out with us.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: In May. We got a lot of fun things coming up.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: It's going to be moving fast. We're not going to
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: be announcing it here in April, So you want to
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: sign up now. That way, you're on deck. You're ready
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: to go. Tons of new campaigns, tons of new content.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Only Patreons get it. So jump over there Patreon dot
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: com slash therapy, and if you sign up this week,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: you will also get to see a new drop that
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I am releasing on Monday. When you're hearing this, it's
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: either Wednesday if you're a Patreon or it's Thursday if
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: you're in the public. And on Monday of this same week,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I've released the twelfth installment of my series on artificial
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: intelligence psychotherapy. This one probably my most controversial. It's about
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: whether or not humans have a right to violence in
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the era of artificial intelligence, and it's not what you think.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: It's not about just fighting robots. It's about the displacement
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: that happens in society because of new technology, whether economics
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: is violence, whether environmental decay is violence.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: So you're doing the buggy whip argument.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, what's the buggy whip argument?
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: What a what a silly man? Did not know?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Idiot?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: But you could tell Nick he doesn't know.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It's the as cars were coming along, people fretted and
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: like union representatives of buggy whip manufacturers, you know, horse
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: whips for buggies, it was a big minus against cars
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: coming along. Okay, the same pattern has happened at nauseum
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: through through human history, like technology displaces workers. Sure, it
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: is what technology is for. It's it's very it's fascinating,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: it is fascinating.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Jim, I have a question, and that is what percentage
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: of this twelve part piece on AI was written by Ai.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask that what a what an
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: obnoxious question? I just don't know why twelve.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Discuss So I'm going to say.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: That's that I'm going with. I'm not going to dignify
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: your question, you dumb person.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Let me just say, uh, write up my response to you.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Know what. I will get back to you. You know what,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I have to go to the bathroom. I'm taking my
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: phone with me. God never looked through my AI history.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Do you do.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: You pay for an AI subscription?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Jacob? I do I pay for a chat GPT? Oh
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: you do?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Okay? How are you feeling about that one? These days?
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: It does a lot.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Still still still doing it for you.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: It's it's crazy, okay, And like the stuff that I
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: use it for, it works really well.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Do you only use it for erotica or also for
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: like handy tip? I mean only okay? Yeah, primarily I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: pay for Gemini. The Google one okay, and it's look,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it's fine. I like it. I've used all three. I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: think Claude's the smartest one. But Claude doesn't know about
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: current events. So if I ask Claude, like, oh, tell
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: me about this new news thing, it's like, well, I
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: don't know any news past this date, whereas the Google
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: one's like, okay, you know, like, oh, Trump just did
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: this law about psychedelic medicines. Here's exactly what it is.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: And so I value that. I feel like I'm not
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: going to keep paying for it though, because I don't
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: know that I use it in a way that needs
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: to be paid for, Like I'm using it to.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Make a lot of weird things, like I'm doing like
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: rack drawings right now for audio equipment with it on
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: one thing, and like yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Raw women's racks yep with the AI huh. I'm okay,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: how much are you paying? Because I'd pay for that
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: twenty bucks a month. I'd pay for that. It feels
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: right nineteen not all right?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: This will not surprise you one bit. But I don't
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: pay for anything.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Which okay, I'm not surprised by any of that.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Fair which I'm not gonna cry you.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: So he uses open Ai, chat GPT, I use Google.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Do you use one at all?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: If I use anything, it'll be open Ai.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's chat chept all right? So you you have
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: a subscription then or not? You don't pay for it?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Do you have a log in?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Okay? Can I ask you? Would you be brave enough
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: right now to tell us what is the last conversation
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: you had with it? What is the last from.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I probably could? I think it had to do something
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: with horses.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, from the Patreon. We're even getting all your shows.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Let's see what was no, No, we're all pulling up
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: our card. Oh, I asked it.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I we had a letter that came in, uh, and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: we're using it on this show, and it is very long,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and I didn't have time to cut it down, so
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: I put it into chat GPT. I said, hey, can
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you cut this down? Okay, it didn't cut it down,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: it answered it provided.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: An answer I have. The more the more I use it,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: the more I really discovering those prompts are. There's definitely
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: an art to the to the prompting. Okay.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So my last few that I've had, Yeah, the letter
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: trimming one yeah, uh, A question about exploiting, exploitating, exploiting,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: certification loopholes, Email revision, uh forty two part two, Notice
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of confidentiality question. That's a good one. Yeah, so email revision.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: All right, I'll give I'll give some of mine, and Jacob,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I'm curious if you'll share.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Might are very boring. I was just looking through mine,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: all right.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I've got one where I asked it to make a
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: picture of me holding a diet coke look like I
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: was holding a club soda.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: That was pretty exciting. So that I control my my
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: brother in law. Good god would think I got a
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: club soda. I asked it to explain to me about
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: lake meat water levels and a recent legislation regarding that.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: I asked it for family dinner conversation prompts.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Did a really good job with that. That was pretty good.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Oh well, I want to know what some of those were.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, absolutely, man, I'll ready those out for it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: If you could build a secret room in our house
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: that only you knew about, what would you put inside
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of it?
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: I just imagine he's saying all of their answer was
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: the same. It was old Jim.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: But you know, he doesn't want this to come off
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: as being a question he looked up on the internet. Yeah, so,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's got the phone underneath the table. Hey, kids,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking I was so crazy hypothetical that
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I just thought of out of there.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I just I like to ask questions. What are some
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: of your recent search on Let's say I've got some
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: dress code questions for some places in Vegas. Oh oh oh,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I'm very fascinated by that. What is the dress code
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: at this nude beach.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Black tie? Surpris expected checked? Let's see, I've got some
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: electric car stuff there.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: I was reading about some some turntables, some record players
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: that instead of using the needles, they have laser readers.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Oh kriick, Yeah, really they've they've been around for a while.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: But I was reading about I was looking into some
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: stuff on that the other day. Let's see audio rack
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: audio rack audio how much racks? Yeah, per outdoor shade solutions.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: We live in Las Vegas.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: It is important.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Let's see infantry unit sizes. That a whole while I
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: looked up how big an infantry unit is?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Weird? So do I so weird?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Who wasn't watching the same movie? Must have? I do
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: You can do that though, Like you'll just be in
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the middle of like watching movie and you'll positively like, hey,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: just real quick, what what is this? I've asked to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: summarize movies before that, I like was I stopped paying
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: engine and I'll be like, ah shit, and I'll like
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: pause it and I'll be like, summarize Goodwill Hunting up
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: to thirty minutes in no spoilers, and it'll be like,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: all right, so basically this is what's happened. I'm like great,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: and then I just get back to life. So or
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: video games too, if I'm playing a video game and
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I haven't played it like a year, and I forgot
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: what the plot is, and I'll jump in and be like, Hey,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I'm in this town in this game. Summarize what's going
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: on up to this point. Anything I need to know
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: that I should have learned by this point. I haven't
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: played this game a year. I love that it can
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: do that stuff. Have you ever asked it nick to
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: tell you about pod therapy?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Long time ago?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I did that too.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: It said very flattering things. When I looked into it,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: it was it was very nice.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: That's why you can't trust.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is true, and they're they're just going to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: come for our jobs anyway and try to kill us.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So there's that. Sorry, it looked like you were about
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: to say something.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I was, and then it said I was about to
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: read I think off chat GPT, and then it said
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: that it violated the terms of you. So it popped
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: up and went away. Excellent.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I want not part of what.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know why.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I like to be very clear, Internet, I wasn't a
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: part of that. That was just Jacob. We are not
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the same person anyway. We've got some great questions for
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: today's show and the first one very appropriate. Is AI
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: ruining grad schools? Apparently it's ruining pot therapy for listeners?
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Here we go.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm asking for advice or not,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: so feel free to ignore me if I need to
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: fuck all the way off. I'm closer than ever to
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: practicum and I'm about to lose my mind over all
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: the blatant use of AI, sloppy work, and lack of
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: active participation from my classmates. The professors give AI generated feedback.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Nothing is personalized. I seem to be limited to the
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: amount of questions I can ask about before I'm told
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: to do my own research. Fair but at the same time,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I'm paying for their knowledge, wisdom, and expertise. Is the
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: mental health field doomed. I can't fucking take it. AI
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: is a tool? Is it all day? For my real
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: job as an assistant? These idiots are using it to
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: do their work for them and are making minimal effort
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: to cover it up. There are no humans left to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: have discussions with these topics matter to me. I want
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to quit. I know half of that is normal grad
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: school feelings, but fuck, thanks Amy A good question, all right, fellas,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I have a potentially uncomfortable question. Oh no, to ask you, okay,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: and that is what percentage do you think of therapy?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Is simply the patient acknowledging and being willing to do
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: some kind of work on it, and being willing to
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: make some kind of effort on it. It's not gonna be
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent, okay, But what percentage of therapy would
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: you say that is? I guess I don't understand the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: question because I think you're doing I think you're getting
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: that with AI. Oh, that just that the human they
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: show up, So how much of the how how much
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of their therapy is simply them having that willingness and
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the and the drive to do something?
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: So this is them doing something?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, it's interesting. There's actually a really good
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: book on this called The Great Psychotherapy Debate, and in
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: it they go through like, scientifically, what do we know
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: are the fundamental things that makes therapy work? And a
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: significant percentage is like the patient being ready to do
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the work and like their headspace, which is why Nick
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and I talk so much about stage of change because
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: it's a big part of it. So gosh, man, I mean,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I think I'm probably way off, but I'll bet you.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It's the number all throughout. Nickuby's surprised what your number is.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say eighty six percent. Oh yeah, I know
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I'm going big with that, but something in my brain
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: is screaming, say eighty six percent.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Correct answers eighty four.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Ah, no, I don't know. I mean it also depends
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: on I'm sorry, Jim, you went over. That means you're
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: no longer a therapist.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, I keep losing these Credentis.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Also depends on like the population that you're working with,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: because like this is the thing where like I feel
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: like AI won't be able to replace a therapist working
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: with people who are in pre contemplation.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, this is I was about to say, like
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: there is a real designation here that we would have
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: to talk about in this because not everyone who is
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: in therapy or any in something is in therapy because
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: they have reached a point in their life where they
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: want to do that work.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Like it might be that's it, You're going to therapy.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Sh should be going on? Yeah yeah, Like a therapist
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: is like you got a lot more, lot more wre
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: to do in that your spouse says, Hey, I'm divorcing you,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: but we're going to therapy. That's it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: You're not necessarily there because you personally realize something is
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a change. You're like, I don't know here because I
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: don't want the consequence.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like there we can really see what the like
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: the therapist is doing something for sure.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, but a lot of it does go on
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: AUTOPI well, no, I don't like the word allipipe, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: like a lot of it has to do a lot
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of the ability to change the change factor for good
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: things to happen. A lot of it has to do
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: with that human being in a place where they're ready
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: for that. And I'd say a lot of our work,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: depending upon what the discipline is and what your field is,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is about getting them to that place. Yea, which is
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I think what you were just saying, Nick is like, oh,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: sure anybody can do it once you've done all the
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: fucking hard work. Like, yeah, once the crops or plants
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: had fertilized and watered and the sun is shining.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Sure the farmer doesn't do anything.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: It's all the seeds. But like, yeah, there was some
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: shit that goes into it beforehand. So I'm saying eighty
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: six percent, what do you think he said eighty four.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna stick with eighty four.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: We're both going highball on this one. Yeah, that's that's
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: bigger numbers than I expected from both of you. Yeah,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: we believe in humans.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I see, I see.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: What was the real number?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I thought you were looking it up?
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: No oh, no, I'm having a conversation. I really did
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: you think he knew it? No?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think there's I misassume your confidence level
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: about everything. I'm just asking whatever you're talking about, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: soon you know the most about it. Like whatever you're discussing,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, what is the answer?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Great guru from the mountaintop. We can we can see
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: your anxiety, like, oh, I better get this right.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I know, like I thought he's got the numbers.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I get this wrong?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Ship, How am I doing today?
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: He's got there right now?
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So all right, this is a really good question. And
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: and actually it's interesting because at my university, you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I'll V where I teach, we you can use a I,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: but we don't have it built into the professor's side.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So some schools actually have it built in where you
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: can grade papers with the AI. You can you can
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: give feedback with the AI things like that I at
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: our school, we don't have it and the school disabled
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: are so like we have the ability to like check
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a paper to see if the paper has AI in it. Okay,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: but they disabled the thing that like it really tests
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: more for plagiarism.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: How do you check for AI in a paper?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: It's AI? Yeah, so we use AI. So like there's
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: a program called I could check for AI. It knows itself.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So did you do this? Yeah, so we don't.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: We don't.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I did do this, We did do this, I did
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: write this, So we don't. A lot of universities have
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: one that checks for AI writing. We specifically do not.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Our university is decided only to check for plagiarism. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: the reason that they did that is because they didn't
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: like that there's the possibility of getting a false positive
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: on a student's writing and end up like destroying their
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: lives over that right, So they would rather err on
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the other side of like, let's go to war with
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the technology and use human judgment versus let's not let
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a robot tell us whether to destroy this child's life
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: or well, this young person's life based on academic dishonesty.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Or something like that. Does that make sense?
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I don't understand what the difference between plagiarism. I don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: understand what else they'll be in trouble for.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: So classic plagiarism is like you over quoted from another
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: paper and incite yourself, then credit. We're not kicking you
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: out of the university for that, whereas you straight up.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: A long time.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I mean like over quoting is an undergrad mistake, like
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of undergrad mistake.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Not but like actual plagiarism, where you're like putting in
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: somebody else's work and claiming it as your own. Yeah,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: so there's the difference is quantity, right, The difference is.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Threshold and intention. So sloppy writing is different than fully
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: confiscated lords, right, And that's where the AI. If you
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: generate it right out of an AI, then yeah, if
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: our little machine says yep, red light, that's something that
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: was generated by chat GPT, there's no external way besides
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: our other robot to really tell the truth about whether
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: or not this kid cheated, and we're about to destroy
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: the we're saying cheated. We're just using at all to
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: generate the paper is cheating? Yes, in that sense, okay.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, for our school, we we err on the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: side of like, we'd rather not have one AI go
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: into war with the other. AI read it as a professor,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: try to apply your best judgment. If they're I think
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that's just going to solve itself. Yeah, I mean if
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: they're cheating in there getting away with it, come up
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: with other ways as a professor to evaluate. So like
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: for me, I don't want to read essays anyway. I
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: really don't like it, and I don't I don't want
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: to put the students into positions.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Why he doesn't play poker with Mexican Americans.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Wow, I can't read you essays done, well done. All
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: the rest of your paragraphs y solid. It was very solid.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: So I don't like I make.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: My good It's one of those ones where nobody laughs,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: but we're all like, oh yeah, yeah.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Well done. Do you want to hear a bilingual joke?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, here we go go ahead.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: There's two cats, one cat named one two three and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: one cat named too, and they both went into the water.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: One of them survived. Which one survived? I don't know
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: which one one two three?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Because Detroie cat saying, do.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: You get it, Yes, you do.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: It's French. It's just it's just the next words in French.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: You know what we're out by everybody.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: You've ruined everything.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: You ruined comedy, ruined therapy.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: It's the same thing.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, here's the rest of my answer to this.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: So in our school we started doing or at least
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: what I do is I don't want papers because papers
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: are too easy to fabricate through the internet. Now, so
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: what I do is I make my students present right,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: because you can't fake that ship like you're gonna get
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: in front of the class. So instead of giving me
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: an essay telling me you know your ship, you're gonna
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: get up there and give a power point, you're gonna
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: talk about it and we're gonna discuss it. I'm gonna
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: ask you fucking hot seat questions and ship or I'll
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: make them like do a video presentation or something.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Do you try to ask your students got you questions?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: No?
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: No, not at all. Just explain to me, especially into students.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Feel free to write in correct that answer.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: All of you. I'll know if you do it, you
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: will fail. That is a gotcha question. No, But like
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: for me, like I'll give them a vignette, right, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: like like, okay, what would you do about this? And
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: they're like, okay, in this kind of group counting scenario,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: do this kind of thing. This is what makes sense
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to me. And here's some things I've read in the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: textbook that kind of references and it's like great, that's
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: that's really good. Or when I ask them like writing questions,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: it's personal reflection. It's like, hey, now that you've learned
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: this new skill and now that you're doing group therapy
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: simulations in class, tell me what that experience has been
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: like for you, Like when have you noticed that you
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable with what your group leaders asking? And it's
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: just it's interesting, right, they don't want to just feed
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: it through an AI. And it would be weird to
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: me if an AI gave me an answer, because I
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: can read the rest of your class's answers and you're
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: all in the same fucking groups. So if one of
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: you is like one guy was wearing a swastika on
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: his head and nobody else mentions that, it's like wait
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a minute, like that it's probably not true.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Son.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I can tell through this like group conscience thing what's
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: true and it's false. But like, I really agree with
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the writer because I've seen this in a lot of
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: other people, not necessarily you and all the but I've
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: heard this through other that a lot of professors and
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of high school teachers now are doing this.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: They're auto generating the feedback. And on one hand, I
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: was talking to another educator about this and they were saying,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great thing. We all have so
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: much to do. This is mundane, routine work. Why should
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: we do that The machine can tell them about their
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: writing errors and give them feedback. And I agree with that,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: But then I think, but do you see how hypocritical
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: it is that we're asking them not to use the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: shortcut technology, but we're going to use the short shortcut
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: technology to grade their shit.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: But that is what technology is, right, Technology by its
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: nature is a shortcut. You're not wrong, but.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I just feel like it's an interesting kind of shortcut.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Technology is a is in like that that is a But.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I kind of agree with the writer where they're saying, like, look,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I'm in I'm in graduate school at this level. I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: not here for what the textbook says. I could go
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: buy the textbook. Well, I'm here for you an experienced,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: seasoned profession to give me your personal take on what
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I'm writing, And I think that's what we owe them
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: as educators, is it or are you trying to set
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: them up to succeed in an industry? I think it's both,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: because like when I was, I mean, which one's more important?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's both.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I think one one has to be more important.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, succeed in the industry, I think is
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the number one thing, and so many like there are
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: going to be choices that get made because of that.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: That's fair, and to create more papers out to get
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: to get more of this stuff out well for me,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and for you to not take time in your grammatical error,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: spelling errors things like like I love that I don't
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: care about because it's like, this is an industry. Stuff
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: like this is just being good at being a student
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: versus being good at being a psychotherapist. Well, at the
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: same time, I would argue that if you're training somebody
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: to be a professional in any industry, that you would
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: want them to be able to do those basic things
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: because you're not going to get hired to do things
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: if you can't do a basic thing like like right
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: out of you're not wrong. The benefit though, is that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: by the time, so that the students that I currently
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: teach and I may end up teaching undergrad later, but
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the students that I currently teach, they already have four
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: year degrees. So they did fine in high school, they
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: got into college, they defeated college, they got into grad school.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Now there's several years into grad school, so like they
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: can do it right, So like I don't have to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: wonder whether they can write something at this point. I'm
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: less interested in their ability to like write articulate essays sure,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: and do research, and I'm more interested in their skills
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: as a therapist because so, I mean, we do a
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: lot of writing in our jobs. There's a lot of
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: clinical writing, which doesn't look anything like academic writing. It's
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a very different writing style and very different audience and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: intention to it. But a lot of our true skill
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and work has nothing to do with writing. It has
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: to do with like these intangible skills and like mastery
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: of like motivational interviewing and all these like theories and techniques.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Well, then let's get let's get fucking meta about this. Then,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: what is the purpose of I'm looking at the grad
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: school question here from homy and what is the purpose
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: then of grad school? Right? Is the purpose to learn
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: as much information about a topic as is possible? Or
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: is the purpose to prepare yourself for a job in
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: that field? See this is question you got to get
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: to that root question.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah first to me and nic will be fascinating what
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: your answer is on this to me, and I tell
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: my students this all the time. I tell them, healthcare
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: is a science and an art.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: If you want to be a healthcare researcher, it's a science.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: If you want to be a clinician, it is the
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: application of science into the art form of healing. And
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: so you're not just here to regurgitate facts and theories
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and data from papers. You're here to learn how to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: take those things and heal a human being. There's a
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: huge ass difference between an astronomer and an astronaut, between
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: a PhD in music and a true violinist, right, like
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: one can actually play. And I think in our particular
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: field in grad school you have to learn how to play.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And that's where I think Amy is completely right or
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Ari sorry, whoever you are, Ardvark, you know there it is.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like you're completely right, because to me, if
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: you're going to school to learn a healthcare discipline, especially
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: something like psychotherapy, a I can't fucking teach you it.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You have to learn from another clinician who is mentoring
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: you in a present apprenticing you, which is why even
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: after you finish grad school, we require you to be
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: an apprentice for two or three more years under multiple masters,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: just so you can learn to imitate them and learn
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the intuitive instincts of the field. That that's my view.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm over romanticizing it though, No.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I've always viewed graduate school as the ability. It's like
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the difference between knowledge and wisdom, where it's like your
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: undergrad teaches you knowledge, graduate school teaches you wisdom. Like
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: it's about the application of it. Now you know undergrad
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: it was just like this happens, and then what you know?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: How did this relate to this? And it's just about
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: being able to answer the questions with factual information, which
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: is like graduate school is how well can you understand this?
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And can you understand it well enough to be able
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to explain it and to teach to other people, and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: how do you take this and arrive like use this
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to solve this problem right when there is no written
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: like way, there's no right answer to it.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It's not like Nope, this is how you do it.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: It's more like, can you figure this out?
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, and I'll tell you this, you know.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: So I agree.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I would be frustrated with that too, because I learned
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a lot from my college professors, you know, and I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: mean some more than others, but sure, I mean I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: also continue to learn a lot more from the therapist
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: that I worked for later.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, clinical experience trumps everything. And this to me,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: what Amy's talking about. I don't think this is a
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: new problem. I think it's a new manifestation of an
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: old problem. I've been saying it for years, like one
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: of the things. And I'm really proud of you and
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I'll be in this way. But a lot of other
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: universities and are really weaken this way. When you look
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: at their clinical graduate programs. They're filled with scholars, just
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: career academicians who are great professors, great scientists, great researchers.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Never done a goddamn thing in the field, never face
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: down psychosis, have never treated addiction, have never been in
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: the trenches. They do not know about any of this
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: they'll tell you how to write a textbook treatment plan,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: they don't know how to apply it, They've never done
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the work, and so like, to me, this AI experience
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: is just the logical extension of like rampant scholarship with
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: no clinical foundation. A good graduate school program should have
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: a mixture of both. You need to have the scholars
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: who write textbooks for a living and are really good
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: at education as a concept and of like mastered pedagogy
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and can bring this like fundamental foundation to the university.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And then you need like dirt under their nails, boots
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: on the ground, clinicians who have been plucked out of
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: the field and brought into the university to tell you
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: how to really do this shit, like how to look
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: somebody in the eye and deliver on these things and
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: do real treatment and like have real stories and really
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: like survive some things and applied these things. I could
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: tell you to cut away all the bullshit. Fat It's
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: what actually works.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: At the same time, though, aren't the papers and the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: and the writings from those people. Aren't those also going
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: to be included in the AI software?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I think it is, But I feel like the AI
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: is you're not getting the experience. The AIS in my experience,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: are more of an extension of the scholars, like they
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: tend to just read back what the textbook says, and
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: if the if the students are writing in, here's the answers,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: and the AI professor's going, yep, these are A or
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: B or C are correct. It's just all nobody's dealing
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: inside of a reality in which they had to do
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the nitty gritty work of human to human work.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: That's probably true.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I think that's always that's always a weakness that academia fights. Again,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it sounds like something AI would say, how do I
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: know you know what? Hold up three fingers right now
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: into the camera. Oh my god, Nick, you got to
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: get out of here. Man, he's gotta fucking kill us.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: It's a terminic. This is it blank twice. We're gonna
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: take a quick break, and when we come back, we're
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: talking about ringing from a karate injury. You're listening to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: pod therapy al right.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by SMITI, Scoop Mason, Miller,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Tess Miller, Builer, t Harris, Team Monico, Oscar Swanrose, Hannah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Marie and McCaine, Myra and Sam Cone, would you like
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: spous the show become a therapis it's your Patreon dot
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: com slash therapy?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: All right, one v one?
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Are we doing one like this? Okay?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: We're continuing on with our accidentally invented series.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: All right, right, who's up first?
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Let's go?
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Uh. Monoxidill sold as rob monoxid was already a prescription
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: medication before anyone realized the most commercially successful property. What
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: was it originally treating?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna take all the options, okay, monoxidil. You said,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: what was the other word?
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: You said, rogame?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Sold as rogame?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, Jesus, there was something else before they realize it
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: regrows hair.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: All of that ship is something else first, Viagara like
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: it's all it's all other ship first, okay, and then
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: it gets all the money dumped on it as soon
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: as it finds out you can give you bons, all right, okay.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Chronic kidney disease, oh, type two diabetes, high blood pressure
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: or generalized anxiety disorder.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, oh boy, wasn't the I feel like the
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Viagara woman was already blood pressure? But this maybe that's
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: related to this kidney disease? Could that possibly be related.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, wow, kidney disease, high blood pressure. What was
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the other one?
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Type two diabetes?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Jesus, generalized anxiety disorder.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: It's not a give I guess give me diabetes. No,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, just since Jim was so against it, I'm
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: gonna say generalized anxiety disorder.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: No, that would have been great if it had been.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Though I know it was high blood pressure. Patients on
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: high on the blood pressure medication started growing hair in
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: unexpected places. Researchers developed their basical version specifically to exploit
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the side effects. Interesting, Okay, all right, then there you
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: have it, uh, Jacob yep before botox became the world's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: most popular cosmetic procedure. Uh. But botteleum toxin botulism.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Is that how that's pronounced? Yeah, I mean that's what
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: it is. I don't know what the b O t
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: U I L I n U m m M. I
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: don't think that's that's as batulism. No, that does not.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Let's go with it, though, to keep saying it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: But I think it's the same. It's whatever it is. Yeah.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Was being used clinically in the nineteen seventies for a
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: specific medical condition.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: What was it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Ooh, for it was botox. Before it was botox, it was.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: For another medical use.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Are you going from the hip, dude? I mean, I'm
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: trying to think if I could think of anything, I
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: will help you, and I can't.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I can't think.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead, Nick's currently in the lead. I can't
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: stand that. I think that it wasn't it originally some
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: kind of like nerve agent, because it doesn't it like
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: numb shit. Yeah, because it like it shuts off muscle movement, right,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So maybe it's some kind of like it's a toxin.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: So it did, yeah, kills off those nerve indig.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Before they realized it had any beauty ability. It might
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: have been something that's like maybe an anise that can
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: be the options.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, chronic migraine headaches, I like that, excessive sweating, hyper hydrosis,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: d uh, strabisism, strabus scotism, misaligned or crossed eyes.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I've heard of this for my grain headache.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm going for my grain headaches.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, post stroke muscularism, spasticity.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think I've heard of it being used for
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: people who had strokes. As I was with headache.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I like headaches. No, give me the post stroke.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: No, Nick is kicking ass. Misaligned or crossed eyes? Now
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: you're both right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: It is used.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: For a chronic mind migraine headaches. But that wasn't no no, no, no,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: no no.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: The question was.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: How did it start, not what is it used for now?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: One of my personal training clients is a neurologist, and
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: he treats migraine headaches, and so he uses botox. He
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: does botox injections to treat migranteggs.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like i'd heard that too.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: All right, Nick is kicking ass.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Whatever, man, there's no justice in this world.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Whitney would have gotten all the botox questions right, she'd
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: have crushed it.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: She's loaded with botox. So much botox. Yeah, basically just
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: a water balloon at this point. Recovering from a karate
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: injury high pod therapy twenty.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Karate, Oh I apology, please pronounce a cru yeah yeh
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: yeh injury?
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hello pod therapy.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, my daughter's karate dojo offered a
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: parent's train free to yellow belt promotion.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: God, what a smart promotion. That's awesome.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: That would totally work to me and I really wanted
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to do it. I was thirty three and very out
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: of shape.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: And decided to the pictures of Jim in his gi yeah,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: with all of the children around him also wearing geese. Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Also a great way to punish a fantasy football loser.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: So they have to earn like a yellow belt at a.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Karate dojood loss.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: That's a good penalty.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: It's such a good penalty.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: AI.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: You have to join a kid's glass and you have
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to earn the yellow belt to get out.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, how did you die? You die?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Did you?
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Guys? Happen to see the video?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: There's this this guy doing some sort of martial art
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and he's got a little robot next to him that's
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: using AI and it's copying his movements, and so he's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: punching it, punches, he kicks, it, kicks, he spins around
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, and it's doing it very well. But
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: there's a slight leg in it, and as he's spinning
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like he's not, the robot is not spinning as much.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: So they get closer and closer together and he does
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: this kick. This robot just kicks him right in the nuts. No,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: they just falls to the ground. Grabbing his crotch and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: so the robot does the same thing. Saved my life.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: You can join the Patriots twelve part AI program, or
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: just listen to what I'm about to say, which is,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: no matter what the computers do, no matter how many
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: robots get produced. Yes, motherfucker's getting kicked in the nuts.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Also, that will be shared in our discord for this episode.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Somebody's gonna find it and share it. So now you
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: want to get on the Patreon because we have an
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: active discord where we discuss every episode with our fans,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: and lots of people will dig up all these kinds
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: of references and share them, so I'm sure we'll be
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: enjoying that. God damn, that's such a great idea. I
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: was thirty three and very out of shape, but decided
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: to give it a try. I fell in love with it,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: the movement, the benefits of exercise, punching and kicking bags
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: as an outlet to release big emotions, the confidence building feeling.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: My anxiety filled brain calmed down as they focused on
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the material everything. I even made some really good friends.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: A year later, I was a purple belt and two weeks.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: They were the fifth grade. But they were really good,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: really nice kid.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I got invited to some really good birthday prinds.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's pizza and swimming.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: It was so cool.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: A year later, I was a purple belt and two
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: weeks away from testing for my blue belt when I fell.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, so you went past the freebie. They started paying.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: That's how they get you.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Yah.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the first belts always free. Then you're addicted.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: So I was a purple belt two weeks from testing
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: for my blue belt when I fell and tore my aclugh.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I wasn't fighting anyone, just jump kicked a heavy bag
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: and my non kicking leg hyper extended. I had surgery
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and knew I was going to be out for a year.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: If I was ever going to be able to return,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I worked really hard in physical therapy and at home
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: with the singular goal of returning to karate and in
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: October returning to what karate?
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Thank you?
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And in October of last year, twenty twenty five, I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: stepped back on the map. I basically did purple belt
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: all over again and got my blue belt in December.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: A lot of people I had made friends with had
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: dropped out during the year I was gone due to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: other injuries or scheduling conflicts, and almost no one checked
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: in with me during my recovery, which was really hard.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: But after coming back, I was starting to make a
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: couple of new friends with other parents also training karate.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I'm now a week away from testing for green belt.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: At this belt level, there are a certain number of
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: sparring classes you have to take. On top of the
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: regular classes of basics, drills and learning material that you'll
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: be tested on. You have to take fourteen sparring classes
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: per belt cycle, which is about a three month period.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: My surgeon cleared me to return to karate in October,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: but not to start sparring until January. It's been really
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: difficult as it requires a lot of quick, high intensity
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: movements and building back up endurance is a common struggle
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: in late ACL recovery. I was just finally figuring it
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: out and feeling like I was holding my own, still
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: losing most matches, especially against black belts and teenagers in
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: their prime physical condition, but conditioning was starting to kick
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: in and it was starting to actually be fun. One
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: night in sparring class, I was sparring with another woman
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: we'll call Cammy. She was one of the new friends
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I had recently been training with. She had confided in
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: me that she usually did private lessons to get the
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: required sparring classes because she had a past history of
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: domestic violence, and sparring brought that all back. One night,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Cammy did come to the regular sparring class instead of
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: a private lesson, and at one point we were paired up.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: She had good intensity and aggression and I took a
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: punch in the face a couple of times. The face
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: is not allowed at our level, but top end side
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: of the head are okay where the headgear is.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: I say that you just listed all of the reasons
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: why I got out of all of this. I don't
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: like getting punched in the face at all.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: The face doesn't sound lovely. I don't like this at all.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Please know every time this happens, I hate it.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I say that only to mention that I was matching
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: her intensity. I wasn't too aggressive. I threw out a
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: kick in our next bout, still controlled, but my heel
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: landed slightly above her rib guard and made contact. I
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: could tell it hurt her, but she finished the class,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: so I thought she was okay. A couple of weeks later,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I saw her at the dojo as I was getting
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: ready for class and said hi. She was there to
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: watch her husband and daughter, who are also correct students.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: She mentioned that she was quitting karate partly due to
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: being injured from my kick. Apparently it's given her quite
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: a bit of pain and a doctor has told her
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: it will take four more weeks to heal. She said,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: even pushing down on a pump for a lotion bottle
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: causes her pain. She did mention other reasons for quitting,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: spending a lot of money on private lessons. She was
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: going to quit in a few months anyway, after reaching
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: a certain belt level, but I felt terrible she got
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: dislocated rib.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: It sounds like she did that. Shit hurts. Oh fuck me.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I had planned on sparring that night after regular class,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: but ended up helping someone else with testing material instead
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: so I wouldn't have to spar with CAMMI watching. I
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: had previously completed thirteen out of fourteen required sparring classes
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: for the cycle, so a few days later I pushed
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: past my feelings of guilt and dread and went to
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: sparring class. No one was injured. I was in control
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: the whole time, but in the middle of the matches,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: tears would randomly spring to my eyes. I wasn't even
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: consciously thinking of Cami or what happened, but realizing that
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I was crying and emotions were running home high would
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: remind me, and then I would pull my punches a bit,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: especially with underbelts. I've been told that acting hesitant and
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: scared would actually put me in more danger of retearing
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: my ACL or injuring the other knee, and I definitely
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: don't want to injure anyone else, especially knowing how grueling
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: the process of recovering from an injury is, how expensive, painful,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: and time consuming. So now I'm just trying to make
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the next best choice. Knowing that I'm not going to quit,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about sparring for a couple
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: more weeks. We're doing testing next week, and I have
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: the minimum number of classes at the moment to advance,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: so I do give myself the week as a reset
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to refocus on material for testing and then start sparring
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: again when the next cycle starts. Or is it better
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: to keep sparring as much as possible now so that
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: it doesn't become bigger and scarier The problem really is
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: that Cammy didn't do anything wrong, and I didn't do
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: anything wrong, and this still happened, and that almost makes
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: it worse. And selfishly, I feel like I've lost another
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: friend when I could really use a friend. How do
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I forgive myself and not let this ruin the thing
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: I love? Thinks bad A Emily, wife of MC hunter Face,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: who has been very supportive, pronouns are she and her?
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: There's no mercy in this Doja's that's obviously the answer, right,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: there's no fucking mercy in this dojo.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Sweet the leg, Yes.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: All right, you did the dojo a favor by weeding
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: out weakness. Okay, that's what we have to do, and
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: that's why she had to leave. And you know what,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: you weeded it out with a swift kick to the ribs,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: and that's what removes weakness from this dojo.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: That's how we believe here at Cobracot Cobra kat Oh.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I'm upset that we're in our ninth year and we're
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: just now getting karate questions.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we should have.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Been doing these this whole time.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: We don't do enough advertising that we're open for martial arts.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Questions.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: That's because people don't think of us as being marshal,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: which is weird because we're not.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It's always been weird that people don't think of as
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: so weird. I buy so many ads just focused on
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: that demographic, and the show never grows.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: So this is weird. Look at the picture of Jim
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: and his cowboy. Obviously this is funny.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: And this is actually what I was thinking about earlier
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: when Jim was talking about playing pickleball. Is you know
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: there's so many people our age that are getting completely
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: tore up.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Got we are getting older.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: No, we do not just people getting hurt playing pickleball
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: and stuff like this. Like I remember my ex wife.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: This was like right after we graduated college or graduated
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: got her master's and she was taking a taekwondo class,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I think, and completely fucked up her knee. I don't
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: remember what exactly happened, but she was throwing a kick
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: and it was her leg that was planted on the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: floor and it was like the turning.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: And she said it was like, that's what it sounds like.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Happened to a bad don't Yeah.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: It sounds like when like a tree trunk snaps, it
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: has that snap sound Jesus Christ.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, spinning on your knee, like the torque in
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: your knee can just don't do that? Like what are
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: you any anywhere in your late thirties and onward? You
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: have no business?
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: So like, this is the.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Thing that I empathize with, is like you find something,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you finally find something that you really love, You're making
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: friends there, You're doing all this stuff, and then at
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: some point does it just become too dangerous? I know,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: this is kind of how I felt about hockey.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, how did you not get injured?
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Dude?
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: That is built to mess people up?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like and I for a while I was just
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: like that was and that's another sport where you can't
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: play afraid. Yeah you have to, you have to really
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: go at it. But like there's so many it happens
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: all the time where you know, somebody loses their footing,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: they fall head for under the boards and now they're
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a quadriplegia Jesus. You know, it's like shit like that
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: happens all the time. It's like I shouldn't say all
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: the time, but it has happened, It has happened.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: It's or other really bad injuries.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like all of a sudden, they're just moving
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: for a puck and then pop, that's it.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: The ACL's gone, Like that's on the ground now. Yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: So but I get it, Like it's it's hard because,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: like you, you've finally found something you love, but you
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: kind of have to weigh those options.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I wonder how much of it is not properly being
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: prepared as an adult getting into this, So getting into
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: a combat sport.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Uh, that's yes, or any kind of active sport. So
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: as a personal trainer, most of the people I work
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: with are older. They're my age or older for the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: most part, and honestly, the majority of the stuff that
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: we do, we spend way longer warming up really than
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: most young kids. Like what I see, you know, there's
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: some young kids that come through the jim They literally
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: walk from their car, they throw their bag, you know, someplace,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and then they just start like doing bench press yeah yeah,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, no, we and honestly they shouldn't
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: even be doing that, but.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: That's the thing that they can but they can't. They're
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: able to get away with it, you know.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: But like there's so many people that I work with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: that have injuries where we have to spend a lot
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: of time. You were talking earlier about horse riding. Horseback riding,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like all these tiny little core muscles
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: that have to work together to stabilize your spine, and
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: if they don't, then that's when shit goes bad quickly.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: So like there are exercises, there are warm up exercises
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that I do with every single one of my in
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: person clients. One of them is what's known as the
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: McGill Big Three. It's a core exercise and all it
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: is is stabilization, and we just practice stabilizing because you
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: need to get that. You have to have that perfect
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: for all these other movements otherwise you're low back is
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: gonna get fucked up. And then the other one is
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: there's a routine that I go through for your rotator cuff.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: You're shore okay, like getting that warmed up and getting
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: that properly, because if you start doing any kind of press,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: any overhead or pushing motion and you haven't stabilized that joint,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: then that socket that that arm is just moving around
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: inside there, and then that's when you get the inflammation.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: That's when you get the tears.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: All that shit Jesus. So yeah, there's a lot that
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: goes into it.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: So on the emotional side, there's there's a lot here
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: that I think is really interesting. And I'm curious if
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: either of you relate to this, because what the writer
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: talks about is fundamentally, I hurt somebody, right.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: This is kind of what I was aiming more with
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: the getting into combat sports later in life, more than
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: the getting injured.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: More than getting injured.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I don't even think about that. I hurt people all
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: the time, right right, Yeah, but I mean here we
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: have the way you do.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it hurts so like I mean, the writer says, look,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I took this really bad injury that sucked for me, okay,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: and it was hard, it was emotional, it was traumatic.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And then I go and I fight this other person.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: They're both and the writer is a female, and it
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: is fighting another female karate person and then accidentally really
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: injures her, kicks her in the ribs. Nobody's at fault,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: but looks at that and goes, now, I'm kind of
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: gun shy because I hurt somebody, and she's leaving the
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: sport now, and I feel terrible about it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: That's not why she's gun shy.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: First of all, she didn't really injure anybody, right, she
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: didn't injure anybody.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Someone took a boo boo. Yes, in a combat sport,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: which is what happens in the combat sport. Is common
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: because this is another person who probably was.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Not adequately set up, sure for getting into a combat sport. Sure. Also,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: when you take a little booboo like this, you don't
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: go to the other person and make them feel shitty
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: because you've given out booboos yourself. Yeah, because you're in
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: the combat sport. So you've accidentally kicked somebody above the
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: pad before. Sure, it happens because you're not a fucking expert.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: The person who kicked you above the pad. You are
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: supposed to give them a bit of grace in that.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And if you're not giving them a bit of grace,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: and then the sense is supposed to be there. Yeah,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: seeing that you give that person a bit of grace
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: for that, they should be there in a narrow because
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: that is not that's not an okay reaction coming to
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: you later and kind of doing the whole guilt trip
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: thing intentional or not right, it is not the right.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: That's not the right path to go down.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: That I may have misread it. I mean the impression
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I got. Bad A Emily is our writer, Cammy is
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: her friend who she caught in the ribs. Yes, and
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: from what I could sense, and maybe I read this wrong,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: maybe y'all got a different sense of it. I didn't
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: get the sense that Cammy blames bad A Emily, but
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: that bad A Emily is aware that Cammy's going to
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: leave the sport, and that part of it is feeling
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: injured that Cammy says, I literally can't even pump the
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: motion right now. I'm hurting so bad. And also I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: have a hit of PTSD and I got into a
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: violent sport, right I have a history of domestic violence,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: and I got into a violent sport and the whole
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: thing rattled me. And so bad A Emily is now
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: in this place where bad A is saying, like, Okay,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: that sucks. I really liked Cammy. And I think what
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I'm hearing bad A ask is three fundamental questions. One,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: I think bad A is saying, Hey, guys, I had
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: this weird thing where in my spa I started crying
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: almost involuntarily. I wasn't thinking about Cammy, who I hurt
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: but then once I started crying, I did start noticing like,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: WHOA is this about Cammy? What's going on? And so
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I think that there's some feedback requested on, Hey, what
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: do y'all think of that involuntary emotional outpour? And then
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: the other two questions I'm hearing from bad A Emily
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: are now that I've done this, I'm a little rattled
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm coming up on this testing thing. Should I
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: take a break from sparring and kind of like let
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: it cool down in my head? Or should I lean
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: back into the contact, into the and not let this
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: rattle me because maybe that'll cause like a rust effect.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting because we think of other sports, like
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: none of the three of us got into karate, but
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: hockey football. When a dude gets laid out in football
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: or dude gets laid out in hockey, a lot of
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: times the coaches like, get his ass back on the
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: ice right away, Like, get his ass back on the
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: field right away, and it's like, coach, you just got
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: laid out, Like I know, let him catch his breath
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: and then let him get out there and hit somebody
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: like because there's this rust fear of like I don't
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: want him to internalize, like what just happened and overthink it.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I want him to get physical again and like not
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: let that settle in.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a big deal before you threw the kick.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Why is it a big deal now that you've thrown
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: the kick and somebody got a booboo from it?
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So are you on team? Take a break?
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Let the dust settle? Oh? I wanted to get back
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: in the spar and in there. Now I'm on team.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: If you want to keep on doing this, yeah, then.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Keep on doing it.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Well, well, Emily says she's going to yeah, but she's
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: looking for advice on do I take a break and
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: like let the dust settle?
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Do I get back in thereat?
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: You say, hit.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Somebody like like they said to to Maverick after Goose died.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Go on, Okay, he said, get him back up in
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the air.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: So kick somebody in the chest, mav now right now.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: He said, yep, get him back in the air.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: As soon as.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: You watch this video of a robot kicking the balls,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I remember that. Yes, it's got really light in the mood, Maverick.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: It's a really good movie.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: Now go shoot at some Russians.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: So okay, both of you are on the team of
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: in athletics, when you get rattled from physicality, you need
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: to get back in there and keep doing it, because
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: if you sit back and you think about it too long,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: that's dangerous In any physical sport, which I think I'm
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: generally on that side too. I think that too much
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: thinking about it is an issue. But I appreciate what
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Emily's saying. Where she's saying, I noticed I started crying
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: as I started just doing another benign fight, and like,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like something's going on inside of me that
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I'm somewhat rattled that I heard a human being and
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I guess a bat a. Emily that to is the
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: piece that I don't think there's anything wrong, but I
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: do think your emotions are getting caught up to something
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: your sport always implied. So like in football, I've seen
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: tons of really touching moments where a defender just knocks
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: the ever loving shit out of a wide receiver right
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: just puts him on his face, and then the dude
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't get up, and you'll see the defender hit his knees,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: take a helmet offut not just out of respect, but
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: you'll see these guys covered in tears and you can
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: see the really emotional I think that guy's a monster,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Like how is he feeling that? But it's because, like
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: this is a sport. We're both professional athletes. I'm just
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: doing my job and we both trained for this. I
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: don't actually want to hurt you. And even in combat sports,
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I think it's often the case that there's a great
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: amount of respect and dignity in the sport. You don't
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: actually want to hurt somebody. For the most part, humans
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: feel really bad about hurting another human, even if the
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: sport required contact, even if the sport of simulating real combat,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: as karate does, doesn't simulate it. You're doing combat, but
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you have no intention of really hurting the other person,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and when you do, I think there's something fundamentally startling
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: about that. I mean, like, all three of us have siblings,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: and maybe at some point in your life you accidentally
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: really hurt your sibling or really hurt a cousin, or
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: maybe you were goofing off wrestling around with your wife,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: and then all a sudden, like you're like, oh shit,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: like I just accidentally stepped on you, or like I
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: went too hard, Like something can happen where you just
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: accidentally hurt somebody, I mean either of you, like raised kids,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: but like when you're raising your kids and you're rough
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: housing with them and stuff you're tossing around. At some
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: point you're pretending to fight with them or whatever, and
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: then you throw them a little too hard, they lose
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: their balance, they fall down there like oh fuck, Like
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I did not want to hurt you, and I don't.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: Know, like earlier I did, but not just now.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: So like, I don't know what your thoughts on this,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: but my hypothesis is for Emily's like involuntary emotional expression,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not concerned about it because I feel like the
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: best explanation is that this is a sincere pouring from
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the unexpected like consequence that happened, yeah, inside of combat sports,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: and it's catching up to you because in the moment
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: when it happened, it's all happening fast. You didn't really
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: know if you hurt this person. Now you found out
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: after the fact that they're really hurt. You're struggling with
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: the sense of like guilt that goes with that and
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: very powerful empathy because you've been injured before and you're
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: worried that they're injured, and you feel like you're the
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: direct cause of that because you literally lit them up,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: and like that's starting to affect you. I feel like
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: all that shows up and.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: You feel like you're the cause of that because you.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Are you paused it directly because you correctly think that.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Do you think I'm on the right track with this?
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like that, like those emotional dots connect
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: and that would cause like this unconscious outpouring from Emily.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Also, is it possible that they have nothing to do
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: with each other? Okay, because I mean she said she
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: just had this emotional outburst and didn't think that that's
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: what it was. Yeah, and then later kind of connected
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the dots point well, maybe it was just an emotional thing.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's other things happening, okay, And and maybe you're
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: kind of forcing a connection that this is about your friend.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Or this is just one more thing on the pile, right, Yeah,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: could just be completely unrelated. I mean it is though
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: something like I did very little combat sports when I
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: was when I was a kid, but like it is
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: a mindset that you have to get around, like sometimes
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: you're gonna accidentally punch somebody in the face.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's gonna hurt, and it is a weird.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: It's not a normal reaction to go like, hey, all right,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: I'll just punched you in the face. Great, let's get
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: back to it. Yeah, but that's that is how you
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: have to get.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: To ever actually hurt somebody, like I mean, obviously you've
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: hurt them in hockey, You've hurt them in these passive ways.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: But if you ever like had to fight somebody or
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: hurt somebody and almost been startled to like, oh shit,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I hurt this person, Like I didn't intend that much damage,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: and I really hurt them. Maybe not, maybe not the
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: second part, Okay, but I've had moments. I had a
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: weird moment. This is a very odd drop here. I
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: had a weird moment on the night of the October
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: one shooting here in Las Vegas, dealing with a drunk
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: person on the strip who swung at me, and I
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: twisted his arm behind his back and like popped his
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: shoulder pretty good.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Yeahst the wall didn't. Yeah, Yeah, it was a whole
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: it was a whole thing. And he was he was
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: just he was just drunk and freaked out, freaked out. Yeah,
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: but like that's probably the closest that I ever got
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: to what you're talking about, kind of accidentally doing something
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: and it was like, oh, I got a I'm holding
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: the up against the wall here, but I gotta lighten
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: up a little bit, like I'm not trying to I'm
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: not trying to hurt this guy.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah at uh.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I mean I've punch people, and
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: then that kind of thing before I.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Said emotional experience, I think, you know, I think, especially
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: when you don't mean to, but I mean, oftentimes in
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: combat sports and stuff, an mma like, I mean, these
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: guys are trying to kill each other and then occasionally
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: they'll just land a really powerful blow. They'll really hurt
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the other guy, and it's amazing to watch how quickly
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: they switch from I'm looking for every chance to take
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: your head off to oh shit, I took your head off.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I'm falling on my knees like praying for you. Are
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: you college?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: I watched a friend's black belt test and part of
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: the test was spar with the instructor, spar with the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: with the sense and it was, uh, you know, as
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: close to a full contact sparring session as you get
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: in a in a dojo type situation. So I mean,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: you're you're the same kind of thing. You're not going
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: for faces. But they're not doing a lot of the pads.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Did they do the crane kick? Just exclude that's an
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: illegal kick, exclusively crane kicks.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: I would love to see that, just over and over again.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Set up, come at me, just hopping around, me, hopping
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: around on one foot.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: Not a single kick landed. I'll bet you won't come
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: at me. Run me as fast as you can.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, if you run me as fast as you can,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be so upset right now. You run at me, coward.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: But anyway you were saying, I don't remember, No, I
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: fought a sense.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: He was fighting the sense.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: And you know the the sparring session is wrapping up.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Both both parties are aware of it. They're both adults.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: You know this. There's not a child and an adult.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: These are two adults and going going back and forth
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: and great and everything is going fine. And just as
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: things are kind of wrapping up, the Sinsey throws a
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: little backfist punch, okay, and it just catches my buddy's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: name's Chris, catches Chris right in the nose, just right
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: on the button, and it was like somebody had turned
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: to the sink on and it was just a blood sink.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: An instant faucet of blood came out of his nose
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: in a way that is shocking if you've never seen
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: it before, just by pure volume.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: Where is all that blood coming from? It can't have
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: all been like above his nose. It certainly wasn't all
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: in his nose.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: Like, holy shit, the heart is just pumping blood out
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: of this man's nose.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: God along the same line, and this is a trigger
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: warning for Nobody's a week stum. Also go on YouTube
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: and see the video of Clinton Malarcha is.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: I was just talking about this the other day.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I ever tell you about this Jacob. He's a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: goalie for the Buffalo Sabers.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: This is back in.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Probably the late eighties. I don't believe it's still on
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: the internet, but yeah, they were. The guy was skating
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: towards the net are on the internet, and somehow got
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: tripped up, collides with the goalie. They get up, everything
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: looks normal, and then all of a sudden, the goalie
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: just drops down. Oh he caught a skate to the neck. Yeah,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: cut his and uh, the trainer saved his life, sure,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: because the trainer gets out there right way, sees what's
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: happening with his fingers, goes in and pinches it and
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: just holds onto it till he can get him to
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: the hospital. But it is just crazy and like shit
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: like that just happens, and that's like, that's not I mean,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: it's not really part of the game. But there's going
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: to be collisions. It just happens to be that one
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: of those things.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: But I think you know, we do training for that
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: kind of for those situations in the circus all the time.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: We do emergency trainings all the time, and it's it's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: for those types of things.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and bad A Emily. When you get into
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: these sparring situations, you understand the risks, like you understand
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: that this is a combat sport and somebody could hurt you.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: And Cammy understood that as well.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: And if she didn't, yeh, that's that's kind of her fault. Yeah.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: No, that's a really well said point.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: And if you think I'm blame me the victim, it's
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: because I am.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I believe women, and so I guess, but
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: now you have two women, So no, what do we
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: do they cancel each other out?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, good situation. I believe them seventy percent.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I'm to be honest with you, not a full Honda,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: but no, like I think that's right. No, But you
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: just nailed it. I think because Emily's last question was,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: how do I forgive myself, you know, from doing this,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: from causing an injury? How do I get back into this?
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: And I really think that you just nailed it because
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I think that when this happens in professional sports, when
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: it happens in combat sports, there is this general understanding
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: among every athlete, which is we all understood the risks.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: We all generally know it works out, but we also
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: know somebody could mean no like harm to us and
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: they could paralyze us for life.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's it's also the difference too with intent,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like when someone gets hurt when you're both
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: playing the sport as it's meant to be played, that's unfortunate,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of part of the sport, you know,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: as long as no one's going out there and intentionally trying.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: To you know, you run into dragging kicks somebody in
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: the back when they're walking out of the dojo, you're
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: a douche and a criminal, or you should be charged
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: with assault.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Or if you do that playing hockey, that's even worth
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: dragging to kick somebody on the ideas.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: Actually it's happened, it's happened.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, it happened in a shit was it a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: European league someplace not too long. Somebody tried to like
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: jump up and literally cut somebody, and it's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: his career is done, he's never playing again.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: In charge with attempted murder.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean yeah, I mean, as long as
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: no one's doing anything dirty and you're playing the sport
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: how it's supposed to be played. I think you both
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: understand the risks, and you know it was her this time,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: it could easily be you next time it.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Was and it was you last time, yeah right, yeah,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: and nobody else was involved.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: You just jumped, you know, and kicked something.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't It depends on how keep the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: punching bag's pockets are. I suggest litigation, that's right, always
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: fake the back injury. But no, I agree with you, Nick.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I think that ultimately, you know bad a Emily, that's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: gonna be the way that you forgive yourself and move on.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Is putting yourself in the other person's shoes that if
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: another steal their shoes, steal their shoes. But yeah, well
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: they don't think they wear shoes. I think that they
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: have a little moccasins. Yeah, that's what they were. But yeah,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: like if if you know that, like you know, if
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: the same thing had happened in reverse to you, you'd
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: be injured. It would affect you. There's an emotion to injury,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: but there's a sense of holding the other harmless because
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: they tried to uphold the best traditions of the sport.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: They were doing it correctly, and that is the nature
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: of the chaos of combat, is that anything could happen,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: and that's part of what is thrilling about it and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: exciting about it and vivid and real about it. And
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: that's the inherent risk of it. And that's all that happened,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: is that you guys encounter the inherent risk. So I
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: would hope that you can reframe it that way. I'm
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: glad you found this sport. I hope it continues to
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: be something that's nourishing to you, that you enjoy. But
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: at the same time, yeah, I mean, you chose a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: combat sport, you know, And this is why I do
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Pokemon trading cards. Guys like, rarely do we have a
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: rib injury in Pokemon trading cards? Not never, not never,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: but rarely, but it does happen. And when shit goes down,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: it's to the death, all right. We don't fuck around
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: with the spin kick to the ribs, pussy shit.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: I choose you pikachuw.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: To the death or do you want me to name
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: a second Pokemon? Go fuck yourself? I would love you,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: all right, Hey, all right, let's keep it going. No, really,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: you can't do the Red Fire Dragon. No chars ared.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: Oh I recognized that one.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Great, you recognize them once? You say, oh I knew
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: that one.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Squirtle just seems that just sounds very yeah.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because if I really could, if I really
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: thought about it, I probably could have thought of Squirtle,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: because we definitely making fun of Squirtle on ice Cream
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Social as well. We're gonna take quick break and when
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: we come back, we're talking about feeling sad after talking
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: to dad.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: You're listening to pod therapy.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by s Middia Scoop
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Mason Miller, Tess Miller, Biler, t Parris, seem Monaco, Oscar Swanrose,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Annah Marie, Emma Caine, Myra and Sam Cone. And if
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: you like to sponsor the show, you can become a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: therapy user at patreon dot com slash therapy. Alright, uh,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: food and drink origins, All right, shit, Jim, the croissant
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: is iconic in France. But where did it or was
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: it actually invented?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Really? Oh, you know what, I'm thrilled to find out
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: it's not from France. Fuck you, France, fuck you, that's
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: not even yours. What a joke? What you're idiots? You're
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: just a cock, You're a food cock.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: So this is what's really funny.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: So when Jim lost March Madness and we're on the
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: text thread and there's something I can't remember what was said,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: but I made some joke and Jim was like, Okay,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: act like you've been in the in zone before chance
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: I did, which is fucking hilarious. I love me from
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Jim because he is as a fan of UNLV who's
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: never never, never, I'll never forget the game that I
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: went with you ten years ago, but it was two
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: seasons ago. Un L v U, N R and L
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: that kick out of you and R and these fucking people,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: these rebels.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: You suck, you and R, you suck.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: It's a rivalry game and we're rubbing their noses in
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: it because they whooped our ass won one game.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, it was.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: The rivalry game anyway, I do. And the French, especially
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: who invented the give me options?
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, Switzerland, Paris, France?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Oh fuck you?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: What the fuck?
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Vienna, Austria or Prague, Czech Republic.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, the Swiss, the Pragueish or the Germans.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: Or the French or the French?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: The fuck? Why is this question even being asked? Then
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: that's not an option? An option, but it's a dumb one.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: Give me the no. Sorry, I'll bet.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything about the Prague people.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go with that, all right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: No, God damn it, Jacob for the steal. I'm I'm
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: gonna go controversial, okay, And my answer here, I'm gonna
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: say the French, God damn it, don't do it.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: No, damn it. Point for Nick, the croissant. Croissant evolved
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: from the Austrian keep far uh huh, a buttery laminated
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: version we now know today developed.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Was Austria an option? Because I didn't hear that Austria
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: was an option.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Vienna, Austria, you said, German?
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: No I didn't, No, you didn't.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: God damn it.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Next question for ten concepts arrived with the Austrian born
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Marie Antoinette. Okay, all right, that makes sense.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: Who was killed in France? Uh?
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: Jacobitch The Caesar salad sounds Italian? But where was it
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: actually invented?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: For ten points? Okay, Tijuana, New Mexicue do you wanta Mexico? No? Yeah,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: what sucked his chocolate salted balls? How do you know that?
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: And b it was admitted at the Caesar Hotel in Tijuana, Mexico.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Are you where they?
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: Also?
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: They still make it today, and they still make it
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: with tequila in addition to olive oil in the Caesar dressing.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: They put tequila in seas dressing.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: Ten points. But I'm taken away too because it was
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: according to our quiz, Caesar Cardin Cardini. Caesar Cardini, an
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Italian immigrant, invented it at his restaurant in Tijuana.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: Restaurant called He's Made Whole. We believe in justice. Year
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: of Therapy give the man his points. Damn it. No,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know why I have seen that talked about
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: multiple times. Wow, I don't know why that gets triggered
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: by me, but like for some reason, that piece of
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: information gets pasted to me multiple times, probably every year.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Nineteen twenty four, he ran low on ingredients during the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Fourth of July rush and improvised with what he had.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: No, gotta love it. Very cool And yeah they still
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: they still make it there. And I've made caesar salad
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: before with tequila and it is because you usually do
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: olive oil.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you still do that. Do they put anchovies
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: in it?
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Absolutely?
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's the thing.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, No, that's that's the traditional caesar salad. Wow,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: has anchovies in it? Yeah, it doesn't have ZERI it
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: has oil and anchovies and an egg.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Hm.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: That's really crazy good except for the cheese. I don't
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: like caesar salad.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: I love caesar salad. I don't think i'd have it
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: with anchovies.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I mean if if you've had a nice
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: caesar set, it's been with they shred them up like real,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: real tiny. It's not it's in the dressing, but it's
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: like a whole lanchovy fish. They take that. They take
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: the anchovies so like it at places where they do
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: table side seazar services, like like what's the Golden Calf
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: place here McDonald's, that's it, Golden Steer among others. Here
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: here in Vegas they do table side caesar services and
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: they'll just have like the little they'll start with the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: anchovies and it's like two forks just kind of shredding
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: the little anchovy's apart. Yeah, and then you start adding
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: in all the other stuff, and.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: You're not in the salad as much as it's the dressing.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely in the dressing. It's it's made in
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: with the dressing, and it just adds like a salty
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: salty taste in there with the dressing.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Right, ask this next question. You're at a restaurant, you're
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: in the mood for a salad. Okakay, they've got all
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: the options. You've got your cob salads, your Southwest salads,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: you got your chef salads in there, you got your
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: caesar salads. You can throw the chicken in, the salmon in,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: the shrimp in, you got your house salads. Okay, you
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: got all the options the table. What are you going with.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: You gotta go with the Caesar. I are you throwing
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: anything in the Caesar?
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe? Okay, I'm not getting you like yourself a Caesars.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I hate if I'm doing it, like if
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: I'm doing like a pre dinner salad, then I don't
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: want anything in it, okay. But like if I if
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting down at a restaurant or something like, I'm
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: having lunch and maybe get a Caesar with a with
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: a little girlled chicken in like little girlled chicken in there.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: That's a delight.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: What's your go to salad.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Depends on where I'm at and kind of mood I'm in.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: I would say probably Caesar, But then the Iowa midwesterner
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: and me is like, just give me some iceberg with
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of ramps and I'm good. Shredded cheese, yeah,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: a little shreded cheese. Maybe if I'm feeling a little froggy,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: some some chopped up or some sliced carrots or carrot
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: little slivers of carrots.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of the chef salad, the one
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: that's got like the diced up ham and turkey and egg,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: you know, in there some bacon bits, some cheddar, like
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: it's all just thrown in there.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: I'm also like some Western resting. Do you like a
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: salad as a meal?
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: I love salad, you like? I like it because the lass.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: If I get a burger, it's, you know, four bites,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: you're done.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: That's what I like about a burger.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Though.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's four good bites, but it's also not It's
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: not a drawn out experience.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: If I'm at a restaurant with other people, I worry
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: that I'll eat and then I'll have nothing in front
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: of me anymore, and then I'll feel weird and so like,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I kind of like a salad because I can just
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: kind of keep eating and it's chill and doesn't go away.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: You go to Olive Garden where they have bottomless salad,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: no pants, no.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Italion, Italian salads, Italian dressing, salads I think are pretty good.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: I would do that too.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: There's a salad fast food salad restaurant that just open.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh there's the salad to go or whatever. Yeah.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I love that place.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: I haven't been there yet.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: It's solid yeah, or as they say, salad sadness. After
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: talking to Dad, I'm a middle aged I'm a middle
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: aged female living in the Midwest. Seven family members have
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: mental illnesses and mental conditions, including autism, ADHD, bipolar c PTSD,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: and anxiety. Domestic abuse to my sister by her husband's
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I may or may not also have autism or ADHD,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: or both. If so, I'm undiagnosed. My issue is that
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: my dad calls me up and afterwards I feel down.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: I have limited contact with my dad. I don't initiate
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: many any phone calls. I live in a town over
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: six hours away by car and have not been inside
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: my childhood house for about twenty years when my mom
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: passed away. My dad often calls and has the same
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: conversations with me over and over. He is the main
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: caretaker for my brother, and he helps out my sister
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: and her family a lot due to their mental challenges.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: I'm beginning to believe my dad has autism and would
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: not be capable of having a full two way conversation
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: with me. I often complain that he talks at me
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: instead of with me. He dominates the conversation so that
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about five percent of the time we were
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: on the phone. If he's feeling generous, I get about
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: ten percent of the conversation. Usually at the end, I
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: leave every conversation wishing I could have said more, could
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: have stood up for myself, could have stood up for
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: my siblings when he complains about them, even wishing I
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: could just talk about anything going on in my life casually,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: something about it feels icky or unsafe to share with him,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: any challenges I have when it doesn't have to do
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: with work. I don't think he means to harm. It
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: was just a conversation we had. It took me so
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: so long to connect the fact that my dad calls,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: and then for the next two days I'm thinking about
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: it NonStop and feeling down. I don't even think I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: realized he was being mean, gossiping about my siblings, complaining
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: about other people in his church, complaining about my mom's family,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: complaining about everyone's poor health. He's always said I was
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: a good child, and it was a pleasure to raise you.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that things my dad was saying were mean.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: It was common for everyone to gossip everywhere, and all
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: of my extended families growing up we all described about
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: people who were bothering us all the time. I see
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: why he says things. Sometimes. He lives with my brother
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: in the autism category, and they great on each other.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: My sister expects him to work indefinitely for her own
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: financial support system. My dad is in his early seventies,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: still working. My sister does have challenges kids with more
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: severe mental help and no partner abuse of past partners.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: My sister is not currently working. My dad misses my mom,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: who died twenty years ago. He tried to date unsuccessfully.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: From the outside, it felt like he was stalking this
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: one lady after they broke up ten years ago. I
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: think my dad was just trying to be friends with her,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: still not realizing how creepy it was that he was
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: mowing his ex girlfriend's lawn after they broke up. I
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: was creeped out hearing about it, but I don't think
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: my dad was aware of how creepy it was.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I found honestly, that just sounds like Midwest stuff.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it's yeah, in the Midwest, it's not creepy, thy Neighborly.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: I've found some information about dealing with narcissistic parents, but
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: hardly any about dealing with parents that have autism. This
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: seems to be the best place for me to find
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: information on what I can do for myself learning about
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: covert narcissists that's my dad, or maybe he's autistic. Covert
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: narcissists and autism feel like something I can grasp to
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: help me understand what to do next. But both are labels.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: He does not have that I am jumping to give
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: him to help me understand what to do next. Also,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: I realize that covert narcissism and autism are not the
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: same thing, but my experiences with him always feels like
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: that is what it's like to deal with narcissism and narcissism.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: I have a hard time feeling my feelings and even
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: naming emotions I have around this. I kind of feel
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: like I'm still in the intellectual phase and I keep
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: learning and learning and learning, and I don't do any
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: doing about it, And I think this might be where
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: I'm letting myself down over and over and over. My
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: main tactic on the phone is to just get it
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: over with quickly, which this is usually an hour total conversation.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: I never hang up on him, but occasionally we'll get disconnected,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: and if that happens, I don't call him back, as
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: I know he'll be calling me back to finish his
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: list of conversation items. Sometimes I decline to pick up
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: the phone call. Sometimes I set the phone down while
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: talking and do other things on speaker phone, but that
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: feels rude. Sometimes I just go uh huh over and
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: over and over. Dissociating texts don't work. He immediately calls me,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: also immediate ick. I answer the phone anyway, because if
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: I text him, it feels like I can't say I
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: wasn't on my phone. Nothing towards me is mean, and
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: not even all the conversations we have are mean either.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: But I'm bored of the same six conversations. I keep
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: telling him I don't understand retirement and I will never
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: get to retire myself. Every single conversation equals a discussion
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: about retirement and money and him working and not working.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Every single conversation multiple times in the same conversation. I
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: can tell he feels guilty about how much help you
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: doing with my brother and sister. I can tell he
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: feels lonely and probably has no one else to vent
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: about them too. He often brings me up to my
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: sister and brother to complain to them about their needing
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: his help. Even though I have told him multiple times
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: not to do this, he tells me that he does
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: it anyway. He would not take it well if I
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: told him his own actions were hurting me. I can't
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: even get my head around it enough to know what
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: to say to him. I just know I feel shattered
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: afterwards for a few days every conversation. At the same time,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: I don't speak with my brother except on birthdays really,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: and only have a light relationship with my sister due
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: to some breaking of trust happen that happened fifteen years ago.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: At least we're kind of speaking now. Strange for five years.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the guilt I feel about not doing better for
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: either my brother or my sister gets to me too,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: But at the same time it's so overwhelming. I just can't.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I can just go no contact.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the conversations aren't all that bad. How can I
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: come back to earth fast after having conversations with my dad?
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Composing this was super hard. This is my fifth rewrite
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: of this question. I have to just turn it in now,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: even though it still feels rambly because now I'm obsessing
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: too much over this question. Apologies on its length for
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: more context and details of foone conversation issues some repeat
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: as I rewrote this in the main body of the
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: question above. When my dad calls, there are a few
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: things that bother me. One, he doesn't let me speak
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: much at all. He speaks for ninety five percent of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: a one hour call, and I get to say one
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: or two things, maybe at the end about what's happening
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: with me. Maybe I get ten minutes of conversation, maybe two.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: He has the same limited conversational topics retirement, money, my brother,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: my sister, her kids, the church, which celebrity has died.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: Number three. He is very negative in general about my
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: sister and brother. He always says my brother is getting better,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: but always sounds the same and always vague about what
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: that means. My dad also resents the fact that he
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: has to help out my sister financially and gripes to
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: me about it as if he's tattling on her for
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: doing something. Number four. I always feel like the golden
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: child of a narcissist, the one who my dad is
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: projecting onto, And he tells me he drags me into
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: conversations he has with my siblings because I don't ask
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: for anything, and I keep telling him that I didn't
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: ask him to do that on my behalf. Number five,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: there's a fear of telling him anything in my life
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: that is wrong, because he will remember part of it
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: and then pasture me about it in a weird way.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I feel the ick about it
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: when he asks me about something I've revealed about my
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: health or mental state, so I usually hold back. Number six.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: He seems to value being healthy and shows this in
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: his disdain from my brother's lack of health and healthy choices,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: and my sisters and my sister's kids and their collective
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: lack of healthy choices and their sedentary nature. And sometimes
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: it's judgy conversations about a topic and I just smile
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: and nod through it. Thanks for everything, Almanda Nora.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, so.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: My first thought I think with the dad, I mean
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: the impression that I get, and I could be completely off,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: but the impression I get is that he just needs
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: somebody to talk to. He seems lonely. That's what it
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: sounds like to me, and I think he's obviously, you know,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: with your siblings, he's taking care of them, so obviously
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: he can't vent to them. And I think this sounds
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: like a dad that just kind of misses his adult
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: daughter and feels some sort of connection with his adult
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: or son a daughter daughter, I think adult child either
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: way and just is grasping for it, is just desperate
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: for it. I think that's what it sounds like to me.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Well, and also I wonder if dad is kind of
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: replacing mom with Almond and Norma. Yeah, right, because like
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: our other two kids are incapacitated. My adult son has
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: permanent autism. That all autism is perfect, but you know,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: low functioning autism. And here I am a man in
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: my seventies. I can ever retire. I need to protect
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: my son. He's gonna live with me forever. There's all
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: these like you know, lingering fears. I feel very alone
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: in the world, and the only human who I have
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: a lifelong relationship with is my daughter, my highly functional daughter,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: who's the only one who cares right, And it's probably
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: an older daughter, maybe it's even the firstborn that wasn't clarified.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: And I can see where Dad's sort of like, I
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: don't know, I've made you like the surrogate mom, where
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: I talk to you like I would talk to my spouse.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: I complain about our kids I talk about how hard
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: it is, and like, I don't know, like there's something
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: about your sympathy and you're being there for me and
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: letting me grouse that gets it off my chest, and
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: like you're the only human who could possibly understand and
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: do that, which I mean, Nora, I appreciate from your
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: perspective where that puts you in a weird position where
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: it's like, Hey, I don't feel good about you coming
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: to me and shitting all over my siblings, right, Like
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: I don't like the superiority, like dynam that that I'm
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: the good child, I'm the golden child and you're, you know,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: unhappy with my siblings. That gives me the ick. But
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: like I guess I wouldn't want you to necessarily internalize
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: it that much because I think Nick's right. I don't
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: think that this is so much a reflection upon you
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: and your superiority as it is the cathartic release of
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: this human just getting out his stresses and his burdens
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: with the only other competent human on the planet who
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: understands his spouse died twenty years ago. That's the only
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: other person that he could have like shared the burdens with.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: And like our kids, I love them to pieces, I'm
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: doing everything I can for them, but like they drive
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: me crazy. They're so needy. Why don't they stand up
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: on there onwn two feet, Like that's where his wife
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: would have staid, have been, like, I'm so proud of you, Han,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking care of our babies.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: It is so ridiculous. You're right, they should be doing better.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: And like he doesn't have that person right, so like
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: he's going to like probably his firstborn child or the
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: one who's sort of become the surrogate wife, and he's
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: just unburdening himself, which which honestly, in a perfect world, Nora,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: which I doubt this will work. But I'd want dad
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: to go to therapy everybody drink, because like that seems
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: to me like a very common thing. And like I've
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: definitely had patients over the years that they do come
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: in and they are just doing the emotional yoga of
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: sitting down and grousing and cathartically expelling the challenges that
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: they're going through. And sure it is really repetitive, and
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: we are talking about the same relationship over and over
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: and over again, and there is no obvious solution like
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: casting out your autistic son or saying no to your
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: domestically abused daughter. But there's something profound for them about
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: being heard and understood and seen and being able to
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: see themselves in that human mirror that's with them and
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: languaging it that sort of metabolizes that negative energy and
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: almost gives them a sense of like reset and control.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: And that's a big part of the value of therapy.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's fundamentally what Nora's offering. But
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: I also think there's something to be said for like,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: if you're in Nora's position, there's such an emotional burden
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: that gets put on her. And this is honestly why
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: we have professionals, that this is part of what we
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: do for a living, is where that external voice that
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: we can sit with them and talk to them because
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: we can't be hurt in that same way that Nora can,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: Like we're not going to internalize that and be like dad,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: it really gives me the ick, Like it doesn't give
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: us an ick, Like this is what we do for
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: a living, Like I'm used to this. I clean up
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: vomit like it is what it is. I get out
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: my bucket, my sponge and I handle business like, but
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: for the other human, there's a reason why you can't
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: deliver that service because it starts to have this deteriorative
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: effect upon you. So I'm not surprised that this has
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: happened in Noura, and in a perfect world, I think
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: I'd want Dad to be nudged toward Hey, Dad, I've
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: been looking up therapists in your area. You can jump
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: on a phone call with them.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: You could do.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: Nora does our long talks. This is a therapy session.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Like even if once a month Dad was starting to
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: talk to a therapist and just regularly checked in with them,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: even if he was saying the same thing every month,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: I think that's one less conversation that Nora has to
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: carry and over time that might actually lead to better
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: coping skills for Dad as you learn the language that
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: with a professional who's sort of structuring the conversation in
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: a different way than what Nora is doing.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: I'm almost wondering, kind of piggybacking on what you're saying there, Jim,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: I'm almost wondering if Dad is because Nora says, like,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: if the call gets disconnected, I know Dad's gonna call
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: me back because he's got to finish the list. Is Dad,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: And I'm saying this is kind of a nice thing almost.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: Is Dad prepping that much for these phone calls? Is
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: Dad really like sitting down and maybe not taking notes
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: literally taking notes, but maybe kind of mentally taking some
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: taking some notes and be like, hey, I gotta talk
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: to my daughter about this. I gotta talk to my
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: daughter about this. Yeah, and just kind of like having
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 3: that stuff in there. I don't know. I mean you say,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you. One thing that is tough is using you.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: I refer to using I refer to this as using
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: you as the stick, using you when when talking to
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: the other siblings and saying, you know your your other
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: sibling is great. I never have to do with this
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: with your other sibling.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: The biggest fight I ever got into with the production
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: manager where I really let a production manager have it,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: is he did.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: That he said that your brother doesn't give him this money.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: He told me that my brother did not you. That's
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: enough out of us. I will not be spoken to
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: this way now.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: I was on this tour, and like every other department
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: had on this tour, it was their first tour. It
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: was their first ever tour, and so the first ever
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: tech rehearsal where we're like built, getting all the new
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: stuff and putting it all up the first time, Like
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: all of my stuff was up and ready to go
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: the first time because I had fifteen years experience on
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: anybody else that was doing it. I don't have a
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: word to say about that to anybody. My department is
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: doing what my department does, and then like other departments
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: are doing what they do.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: It's the first rehearsal. This is the time to iron
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: these problems out. And the first thing the production manager
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: said at the end of the day was how everybody
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: needed to pay more attention to what I was doing.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, motherfucker, I have to go on
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: the road with these people.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Do not do this. And that's and that's kind of
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: the conversation I think you can have with your dad
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: is I don't think you have to go to your
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: dad because you say that he will not take it well.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: If you say that that his actions are hurting you,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think I think you can rephrase that a
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: I think you can just tell him, Hey, these conversations
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: when we're when we're going down these rabbit holes and
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: complaining about these people. I don't do really well complaining
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: about the complaining about people all the time like this.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: If there's an.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Issue, I kind of want to talk about the issue
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: and then be done talking about it. If we could
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: kind of angle our conversations that way a little bit more, Dad,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: that would that would make me feel better when when
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: we get off the call. That'd make me uh, you
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: know that, that would really really help me out with
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: with a lot of this.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: And maybe don't bring me up to my brothers and sisters.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: I think you can almost bring that part of the
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: conversation up as a way of like, hey, this isn't
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: very effective. And also like you're bringing me up in
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: front of your siblings. That's not going to change be.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: And it's hurting my relationship with my brothers and sisters. Yeah,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: that is making my life more You doing this is
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: making my life a little more difficult, and I'd appreciate
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: it if.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: You wouldn't do that. And I know you're not thinking
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: of it that way. You're not thinking of making my
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: life more difficult, but this is happening, and so I'd
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: love it if we could steer away from this.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think a lot of times
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: as a parent, the natural move to give a compliment
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: to your child is to compare them, right, And you're
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: not trying to be petty about it. You're not trying
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: to be worried about it. You just you think that's
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: what they want to hear, and you think that, like
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: that's the natural currency of the realm is like, oh, well,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: compared to your siblings, you're doing great. But like I think, Jacob,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: you're the older sibling, right, so, Nick, you probably didn't
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: have this experience so much, And you've talked about in
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: the past, like that you and your sister didn't feel
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: very competitive because you both have very distinct lanes. Like
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: you were the athlete, like you had your thing going on,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: she had heard thing going on. And you guys different
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: genders in the whole business. Like you didn't feel that way.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: But like like in my life, like you obviously Jacob,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: you you and your brother same gender, like little sister,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: she's eight years younger. It used to drive me crazy
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: when my parents would try to like namecheck me as
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: like a lesson to her, like do what your older
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: brother did, he did it this way. What a great guy.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: And I bet he got his lip Piers. What a
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: cool guy, And like I would be like furious about
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: that shit because it put her in a weird position
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: of like what am I supposed to do? Like, and
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: I would get pissed because I'd be like, hey, you're
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: also kind of sucking up my relationship with this kid,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: because like there's no way for me to recover from that.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: Either I get weirdly idealized and like I've become some
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: kind of fucking moral lesson, or like I'm some kind
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: of like standard that we measure everything by, which fuck you.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: Like that's not cool for me either that like so
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: when I fuck up, it's gonna be like learn from
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: him or whatever, Like can't we just live our own
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: goddamn lives. It's like I really feel for the writer
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: on this, Like I don't like the sibling disibling comparison.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: I agree with Jacob's point. I don't think there's anything
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: painfully wrong with educating a parent to say, hey, that
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: makes me feel itchy. I'm with you. I agree with you.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: I care about your experience with my siblings, and I
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: know you mean to give me a compliment. I just
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: wish sometimes dad that your compliments didn't directly compare and
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: contrast me to my siblings. I want you to see
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: me as the best version of me, not me as
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: the best version of a child. Right, I thought you just.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: Will Smith hmmm, because I will say I have not
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: heard Chris Rock say anything about Will Smith's wife ever
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: since Will Smith slapsh it out of them.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: If there's anything we've learned tonight, it's that violence is
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes the answer.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, can we get that as a drop?
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: Did I step on it? I stepped on it.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: Yep. Violence is sometimes the answer.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: Not always, maybe, not even most of the time sometime,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: but sometimes, but sometimes sometimes that's the answer. Fight your father, Nora,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: I think is where we're going with that. I think
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: definitely fight your dad.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: I know of a karate dojo okay, that will give
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: you free lessons until you get a yellow belt belt. Yeah,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: and so I think you and your dad should get
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: in there.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: And first one with a.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: Broken rib has to change the way they talk about
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: your siblings. Last thought on this before we wrap this
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: one up, Nora, you know you ask the question of like, look,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: after I have these long talks, I need to recover
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: more quickly. I'm holding on to it, and I relate
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: to this to some extent. Like you know, one of
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: the things that I love about addiction work is that
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: it's very solution focused, that's very milestone driven. There's a
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: way to measure your progress.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: But sometimes in private.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: Practice you do get these people that sometimes I describe
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: it as like emotional hospice, Like there is no solution
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: for this, there will never be a solution for this.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: I have had my fair share of patients that are
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: geriatric patients. We're in seventies, eighties, nineties, and I'm just
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: listening to them talk about their woes and their health
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: and their finances, and there is no way for me
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: to case manage that, to propose a solt it would
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: actually be just respectful to be like, have you tried
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: this right? Like, Nope, none of this can be budged.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: None of us can move. I am watching the slow
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: sinking of the boat, right. But there's a hospice to this,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: of like my jobs to help play the violin on
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: the Titanic and be there to comfort them and let
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: them get it out, let them vomit, let them produce
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: their pain today, hold it with them. Offer a few
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: words of encouragement, and if they walk out of that
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: conversation five pounds lighter back into the world, I've done
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: something meaningful that day. And so writer, I know what
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: that feels like to step out of that conversation. I've
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: had those patients where I feel a lot of dread
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: before the conversation, because one of the worst things in
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: healthcare is to feel useless. And one of the things
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: I do for myself is I give myself that pep
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: talk that today I'm going to play the violin on
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: the Titanic, and there's something noble about that, and there's
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: something useful about that, and there's something incredibly humane about that.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: And hospice is a humane thing to do, even when
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: you cannot change any of it. It's beautiful and meaningful.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: And so when you finish up those conversations, if you
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: can give yourself that pep talk before the conversation, and
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: if you can remind yourself after the conversation, I just
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: did something important. I withdrew some amount of the poison
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: from my father by listening to him. I'm not validating
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: his opinions about my brother. I'm not validating his opinions
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: about my sister. I'm allowing him to spit the poison
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: over here so there's less of it in their lives,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: and that perhaps gives him a little bit more fortitude
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: to go work another day, to solve another problem, to
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: be good in their lives. And perhaps that is a
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: gift that I am giving to my siblings, And Noraa says,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: sometimes I feel guilty that I'm not doing enough for
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: my siblings. This is the gift you give to your siblings, Noura.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: By allowing your father to get some of his angst
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: out with you, you're allowing him to have more grace with them.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: And so what they don't know is that you're the
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: unsung hero of this family in the sense that because
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: dad brings you that pain, there's less of it to
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: go around for them, and he has more endurance. And unfortunately, Nora,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: that's like my only really piece of advice on this
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: as to how to about back a little bit faster, how
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: to reframe this in a way that feels like it's
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit more emboldening for yourself. Is to understand
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: it as the cathartic release that it is. You're essentially
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: your father's therapist. I think you need backup. I don't
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: like you carrying all this load. I think that's a
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: lot on you. I think you need your own place
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: to dump that out. And like you know, as your
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: cup gets filled with all of his venom, you need
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: a place to dump that out as well. And I
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: think there's health to that. A lot of therapists have
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: therapists for exactly this reason. We need to dissipate the
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: pain that we channel and get it out to others
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: and explore our own humanity and the impact it causes
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: on our lives. But like I would encourage you to
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: do either that self care, that reframing to sort of
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: find the greater good in this work. It's not pointless,
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: it's very noble. There's a sense of hospice to this
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: and Catharsis to this. You're doing something important and you're
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: giving a gift to your family, and I hope you
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: see that. Or kick him in the rib, or kick
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: him in the rib, backspin heel to the rib. We're
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: gonna take quick break and when we come back, we
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: wrap it up. The show you're listening to pod therapy.
• 1:38:56
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  Speaker 2: off the camera. He's hiding it well. We'll see. We
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  Speaker 2: all have to tune in the uncensored version. Okay, I
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  Speaker 2: can kind of tell which finger you're doing anyway. So far,
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  Speaker 2: The camera is waste up. Yeah, the camera is waste
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  Speaker 2: we forget about it and we stand up. Sometimes you
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: stand up because sometimes Jacob throws a hula hoop at
• 1:41:00
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• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: you see what you're gonna see, Ladies, you know what.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: We need to get back to measuring dick size by donuts.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I thought that was a solid It's been
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: too long, it's been like this episode. Yeah, this is
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  Speaker 2: anything but the metric system. So as we get to
• 1:41:17
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• 1:43:03
  Speaker 3: I love you.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: She gets closer and closer to the wicked Witch of
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: the West. No, No, these are very distinguishable. Are you
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: accusing him of only having.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 3: Only different people one? Look? I don't think so. I
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 3: was explaining somebody the other day.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: My my, my impression stole anytime I have to do
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: a comedic impression, but usually the impression starts off with
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: an introduction. Usually my impression, the first words that whoever
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: impersonated are going to say is what their name is?
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Really quick?
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, that's very important.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: There you go, smamatic.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: Bye.