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Cardinals back to .500, what's clicking? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. I'm your host, Katie. We
0:09
Speaker 1: were here with Bernie Michlis, who pointed out Bernie did
0:11
Speaker 1: right before we started recording that the Cardinals have won
0:14
Speaker 1: three count of three series in a row. They beat
0:17
Speaker 1: the Reds on the road, come back for a Bay Area,
0:20
Speaker 1: well northern California homestand take two to three from Oh
0:23
Speaker 1: oh my gosh.
0:24
Speaker 2: Two free that's all right.
0:25
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting they're not there anymore. Two free from
0:28
Speaker 1: the No City A's and two of free from the
0:31
Speaker 1: San Francisco Giants, who came in on a heater to
0:34
Speaker 1: Saint Louis winners I believe of their last ten of twelve,
0:37
Speaker 1: and the Cardinals said not so fast. They won on Sunday,
0:40
Speaker 1: beat the Giants four to three Sunny Great. Was really
0:43
Speaker 1: good for five innings, ran into trouble in the sixth,
0:45
Speaker 1: but the Cardinals scored four runs in the fifth inniing
0:48
Speaker 1: and that was all they needed thanks to a lights
0:50
Speaker 1: out performance once again by the bullpen. Bernie. You and
0:53
Speaker 1: I will get into that, but first let's just talk
0:55
Speaker 1: about how the series was really this homestand going four
0:59
Speaker 1: and two here in the first week of September an
1:01
Speaker 1: encouraging sign for this young Cardinal squad.
1:04
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's a it's a strange not a
1:05
Speaker 2: strange season, but I understand there would be people watching
1:10
Speaker 2: us and listening to us, and thank you for doing that.
1:12
Speaker 2: By the way, that you know, we're going to talk
1:14
Speaker 2: about the Cardinals getting back to five hundred for the
1:16
Speaker 2: first time since August thirteenth, and you know, winning three
1:19
Speaker 2: series in a row, and not none of the series
1:24
Speaker 2: were really easy. They had to they had to sort
1:26
Speaker 2: of dig their way out of a lot of holes,
1:28
Speaker 2: you know, losing the opener to the Giants for example.
1:31
Speaker 2: I think they lost the opener to the A's, you know,
1:33
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But they continue to battle, and
1:39
Speaker 2: I just want everyone watching us to know. You know,
1:42
Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything about, oh, they're so great, Katie's
1:45
Speaker 2: not saying that. We know that that's not the goal.
1:48
Speaker 2: You know, we know that, you know, franchise with the
1:51
Speaker 2: high expectations of the Cardinals, I mean, the standards are
1:54
Speaker 2: to win and get to the playoffs, make a run,
1:57
Speaker 2: which I don't think was possible this year. But I
1:59
Speaker 2: do get it. It's not like anyone's planning a parade
2:01
Speaker 2: because the Cardinals are now five hundred again on September seventh.
2:05
Speaker 2: But I do appreciate this team in a number of ways,
2:11
Speaker 2: and one of the things is they continue to I
2:13
Speaker 2: think they now have thirty seven comeback wins this year.
2:17
Speaker 2: They're terrific in one run games again this year. Their
2:20
Speaker 2: bullpen is terrific again this year. You know, there's some
2:24
Speaker 2: things despite really shaky starting pitching and despite well an
2:30
Speaker 2: offense that eh, you know, kind of eh, it's amazing
2:36
Speaker 2: to me that they're seventy two and seventy two, It
2:38
Speaker 2: really is.
2:39
Speaker 1: I agree, especially when you look at the lineups that
2:41
Speaker 1: they were rolling out this weekend. With no disrespect to
2:44
Speaker 1: anyone involved, but I mean the Cardinals were without four
2:47
Speaker 1: starters and no conturists. Who's finishing out that suspension. He'll
2:50
Speaker 1: be back on Tuesday. No Arnatto, no Burlas and O'Donovan.
2:53
Speaker 1: We'll have updates for them later on in the show.
2:56
Speaker 1: But you had a lineup that had Mason Win as
2:58
Speaker 1: a cleanup hitter, Jimmy who has all of I don't know,
3:01
Speaker 1: ten days of service hitting fifth, Nolan Gorman at first base,
3:05
Speaker 1: Jose for Meen was that third guys playing all out
3:08
Speaker 1: of position, and they played a really competitive, gritty series.
3:11
Speaker 1: I loved the Jordan Walker walk off on Saturday night
3:14
Speaker 1: much more than I loved the Arizona State football game.
3:18
Speaker 1: I was watching talk about.
3:20
Speaker 2: It, I was watching that. I was watched all I'm saying,
3:24
Speaker 2: there's cow bells got to them. I'm not using those
3:28
Speaker 2: cowboys got to your boys.
3:31
Speaker 1: Very disapporting, But for Cardinals fans sake, Jordan Walker had
3:34
Speaker 1: that big walk off on Saturday after really like eight
3:37
Speaker 1: innings of a pretty boring baseball game, no offense, and
3:40
Speaker 1: that escalated very quickly. Loved that Jordan was the one
3:43
Speaker 1: who essentially ensured the win. But the story for Sunday's game,
3:46
Speaker 1: to me is a story that's been I think the
3:48
Speaker 1: most positive aspect of the team all season. It's the bullpen, Bernie.
3:51
Speaker 1: I mean, lights out again from Matt Spahnson. Here are
3:54
Speaker 1: his stats from July first. I went ahead and look
3:57
Speaker 1: this up, not counting coming into today. Since July first,
4:01
Speaker 1: eighteen appearances, thirty and two third Indians, he has a
4:04
Speaker 1: one four seven ERA that got even lower after his
4:06
Speaker 1: performance today. Thirty strikeouts, five total earned runs. I mean,
4:10
Speaker 1: he has just been excellent. That's nothing to say about
4:12
Speaker 1: Jojo Romero, Riley O'Brien, Kyle Lay. He didn't pitch today
4:15
Speaker 1: after a shutdown performance yesterday. But no matter who's in
4:19
Speaker 1: this bullpen. And this is what I talked to Allie
4:21
Speaker 1: marmal in our postgame session about. We've talked about the
4:23
Speaker 1: bullpen all season on how effective they are regardless of
4:26
Speaker 1: who's in it. I mean, no, this is not the
4:28
Speaker 1: bullpen with Brian Helsley, Filmton, Stephen Mattz. This is a
4:32
Speaker 1: bullpen that was expected to regress a little bit just
4:34
Speaker 1: based on the players that they got rid of, and
4:36
Speaker 1: really I'm just seeing the bullpen continuing to dominate. Bernie,
4:39
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on how this bullpen has been
4:41
Speaker 1: used in particular?
4:42
Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, this is second year in
4:44
Speaker 2: a row where the bullpen has been outstanding. He's been
4:46
Speaker 2: the best part of the team, and I think the
4:47
Speaker 2: manager and the pitching coach have a lot to do
4:49
Speaker 2: with that. Now. I know some people will never give
4:51
Speaker 2: Ali Marvel credit for anything, and everyone's entitled to think
4:55
Speaker 2: as they choose, But when I see a team that's
4:58
Speaker 2: too for the second consecutive year, have an excellent bullpen,
5:03
Speaker 2: and have an excellent record in one run games and
5:09
Speaker 2: outperform their run differential by a wide margin. It tells
5:13
Speaker 2: me that the manager is doing really really well with
5:16
Speaker 2: the things he had that he can sort of control.
5:18
Speaker 2: In that knowing how to run a bullpen, also knowing
5:21
Speaker 2: putting a priority on defense because you've got to pitch
5:24
Speaker 2: the contact starting staff, you're starting pitching is not very good,
5:28
Speaker 2: You're not going to score a lot of runs. So yeah,
5:31
Speaker 2: I think Oli Marvel has done a lot of things
5:33
Speaker 2: right in terms of understanding there's only there's only so
5:36
Speaker 2: many paths to victory for this team, it really is.
5:40
Speaker 2: It's very The way they can win is very, very limited.
5:43
Speaker 2: So in that context, to run the bullpen as well
5:47
Speaker 2: as he has the last couple of years, and for
5:49
Speaker 2: them to have the great record in close games, uh
5:53
Speaker 2: that they have had the last two years, it's I
5:57
Speaker 2: just think it's really impressive. You know, you can you
6:00
Speaker 2: can only do with what you have as a manager,
6:02
Speaker 2: and you know, let's face and the Cardinals have had
6:04
Speaker 2: one of the worst starting pitching starting pitching groups, you know,
6:09
Speaker 2: in the majors this year statistically, that's true, you know,
6:12
Speaker 2: in the bottom five, bottom six the offense has been
6:16
Speaker 2: among the league's worst and the league as in the
6:18
Speaker 2: entire Major since the end of May. So I don't know.
6:22
Speaker 2: I mean yet they're somehow seventy two and seventy two.
6:25
Speaker 2: I think the manager gets a little bit of the
6:27
Speaker 2: tip of the cap. I feel that way, and I
6:29
Speaker 2: never hesitate to give give the manager, you know, a
6:32
Speaker 2: lot of hell if I think he's screwing something up.
6:34
Speaker 2: But the bullpen, you know, let's get back to that,
6:38
Speaker 2: because I'm taking more of an overview that, Yeah, the
6:40
Speaker 2: bullpen has been outstanding again. And I was looking at
6:43
Speaker 2: looking at this after the game today in terms of
6:45
Speaker 2: where they rank in EER, they're they're basically the same
6:49
Speaker 2: that they were before they traded Hellsley, Maton and Mattz.
6:52
Speaker 2: I mean, they're still in the top ten as far
6:54
Speaker 2: as bullpen era, bullpen performance, not letting late leads get away,
6:59
Speaker 2: you know, they haven't. They have with lust the thing,
7:01
Speaker 2: even though they traded three guys that were held in
7:04
Speaker 2: high respect here in Saint Louis at the time of
7:06
Speaker 2: the trade. Correct, that's really great stuff, it really is.
7:11
Speaker 1: And then you see what's happened with film Aton and
7:13
Speaker 1: Texas has not been nearly as effective as Brian Helsley.
7:16
Speaker 1: It's been a disaster in New York with the Mets.
7:19
Speaker 1: You hate to see that for both of those guys
7:20
Speaker 1: who were good Cardinals obviously length and tenured, vastly different,
7:24
Speaker 1: but two total pros and shoutouts Stephen Mattz who's crushing it.
7:27
Speaker 1: He's been absolutely lights out for the Red Sox in
7:30
Speaker 1: that trade. But I mean, this is something we talked about,
7:33
Speaker 1: Bernie as soon as the trade deadline happened, the possible
7:36
Speaker 1: regression of the bullpen because it is so inexperienced. I mean,
7:39
Speaker 1: you look at the names there, the talents there. The
7:42
Speaker 1: Cardinals have been high on Bili O'Bryant since last year
7:44
Speaker 1: based on the metrics, what he was showing on the track. Man.
7:47
Speaker 1: This is a guy who didn't have a lot of Indians,
7:49
Speaker 1: but the stuff was there. Matt Swhonson is a huge
7:52
Speaker 1: success story for this Cardinals club this year based on
7:54
Speaker 1: what he looked like in twenty three and twenty four
7:56
Speaker 1: and the jump and stride that he made. Same with
7:59
Speaker 1: Kyle Lahey. Still don't think Kyle Lahy's features in the bullpen.
8:01
Speaker 1: I think it is as a starter and I hope
8:03
Speaker 1: he gets a fair shot in spring. If that's what
8:06
Speaker 1: he wants, that's the Cardinals want to see that. And
8:10
Speaker 1: then you have guys like Gordon Griseppa, who I think
8:11
Speaker 1: is very close to figuring it out. That stuff, that
8:13
Speaker 1: deceptive delivery, It will click. He's got to limit the
8:16
Speaker 1: hard contact a little bit more, but that will come
8:18
Speaker 1: with experience. Jojo Romero he can close, and he has
8:21
Speaker 1: been mostly the only left handed reliever since the trade
8:25
Speaker 1: deadline minus a handful of games, and he's kind of
8:28
Speaker 1: embraced that role of uncertainty because when you are the
8:30
Speaker 1: only lefty, of course you have no idea when you're
8:32
Speaker 1: going to be used because it's going to depend on matchup.
8:35
Speaker 1: So I agree with you. I think the bullpen management
8:38
Speaker 1: has been arguably Allie Marmle's biggest growth since becoming the
8:41
Speaker 1: manager in twenty twenty two. It's fun as a beat
8:44
Speaker 1: writer because in the first half, we knew exactly how
8:47
Speaker 1: how this was going to go. We knew who was
8:49
Speaker 1: coming in, what to look for. You had a seventh
8:51
Speaker 1: th inning guy, you had an eighth inning guy, like
8:53
Speaker 1: you knew when may Tom was coming in. You knew
8:54
Speaker 1: when they were going to use mats. You knew when
8:57
Speaker 1: Lay he was coming in and Helsley obviously had the ninth.
8:59
Speaker 1: We didn't know, oh, how this is going to play
9:00
Speaker 1: out in the second half with those guys gone and
9:03
Speaker 1: the roles really undefined. So to figure this out and
9:07
Speaker 1: kind of watch how Allie and Dusty go through these moves,
9:09
Speaker 1: and then the vast conversations that we have pre game
9:13
Speaker 1: the next day about who does what, where they fit,
9:16
Speaker 1: how their stuff works. It's really cool to watch that
9:18
Speaker 1: evaluation and that analysis play out after a move. So
9:22
Speaker 1: now we're starting to see today the big question was
9:25
Speaker 1: is Riley O'Brien going to be able to come out
9:26
Speaker 1: and post back to back, especially night game to day game,
9:30
Speaker 1: because we were looking Lay he's unavailable, You already use Sponson,
9:33
Speaker 1: you already used Romero, who's going to take the ninth?
9:36
Speaker 1: And we saw Brian warming up and we're like, you
9:38
Speaker 1: know what, that's something we didn't know about his usage.
9:40
Speaker 1: So now we can go from there. The fact that
9:42
Speaker 1: the manager and the pitching coach are essentially doing the
9:44
Speaker 1: same except their decisions impact the win loss column and
9:47
Speaker 1: they're finding success. If there's one silver lining for how
9:51
Speaker 1: the season has gone, since the trade deadline. I think
9:53
Speaker 1: it's going to be the bullpen. It's a very finicky place,
9:56
Speaker 1: relief pitching is, but everyone from the pitchers to the
9:59
Speaker 1: coaching staf Off is inn a nice job and making
10:01
Speaker 1: sure that the Cardinal's biggest weapon has stayed that way.
10:04
Speaker 2: No doubt about it. And Riley O'Brien intrigues me. At
10:06
Speaker 2: first of all, Sponson is nasty and he he looks
10:10
Speaker 2: like future closer to me. How soon that happens. But
10:13
Speaker 2: he's got the stuff to be a closer and the
10:17
Speaker 2: stuff physically where he can just dominate hitters. But also
10:22
Speaker 2: he's got that persona, he's got that presence on the mount.
10:25
Speaker 2: He's a big guy, he's fearless, he's confident. You know,
10:28
Speaker 2: he looks like a closer, you know. So and Romero
10:33
Speaker 2: has been really terrific this year. You know, once they
10:36
Speaker 2: think Dusty Blake corrected a mechanical flaw in his delivery
10:40
Speaker 2: in late April or so, and lay he's been a horse,
10:44
Speaker 2: and you know, on and on and on. O'Brien intrigues
10:48
Speaker 2: me because he came here with the rep as a
10:51
Speaker 2: guy can throw really hard. But other than that, no
10:53
Speaker 2: one really was really sure what to make of him,
10:56
Speaker 2: and he's had a lot of injuries and talking to
10:58
Speaker 2: Cardinals people along the way about him. The one thing
11:02
Speaker 2: that you know, I was told by more than one person,
11:04
Speaker 2: which is, you know, he's got the stuff. I don't
11:07
Speaker 2: know if he believes in himself. Part of it's because
11:10
Speaker 2: he's had injuries, and so he's used to sort of
11:13
Speaker 2: getting his heart broken because he's hurt again, and or
11:16
Speaker 2: he'll have a bad outing and it kind of crushes
11:18
Speaker 2: his confidence. What they I think, what they really really
11:22
Speaker 2: appreciate about him is the growth that they've seen in him.
11:26
Speaker 2: He handles that adversity better now, Like today, I mean,
11:30
Speaker 2: the ninth thing he could have blown up on him.
11:32
Speaker 2: It could have, you know, the first guy gets on,
11:35
Speaker 2: you know, and it's a There's been a couple of
11:37
Speaker 2: situations where it could have blown up on him. But
11:39
Speaker 2: he keeps his composure. He's more confident now. I hate
11:43
Speaker 2: to use the cliche, but he trusts his stuff. He's
11:46
Speaker 2: got enough weapon, He's got enough to get out of
11:48
Speaker 2: any kind of jam. You know, he can overpower hitters.
11:53
Speaker 2: He's more resourceful now. I think they've done a really
11:56
Speaker 2: good job bringing him along because he's an entirely different picture. Listen,
12:00
Speaker 2: as you know, I mean, there's a million guys that
12:02
Speaker 2: can throw ninety eight. That doesn't make you special anymore.
12:05
Speaker 2: It can be an advantage, it doesn't guarantee anything. The
12:08
Speaker 2: hitters know how to hit the hard stuff now. But
12:12
Speaker 2: he's really evolved in terms of his confidence, his belief
12:15
Speaker 2: in himself, and that's a really good sign for him
12:18
Speaker 2: and for the Cardinals going forward.
12:20
Speaker 1: Agreed, Especially, you know how volatile relief pitching is, and
12:23
Speaker 1: the pitching depth in general for this organization not exactly
12:26
Speaker 1: as strong too, as you and I both know. Bernie.
12:28
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll take a quick break, we'll hear from
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12:32
Speaker 1: you with some more Cardinals news and some injury updates.
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13:38
Speaker 1: we are going to have some Cardinals transactions. Alec Burlison
13:43
Speaker 1: should be activated Monday. Brendan Jonavan, Nolan Arnaut not too
13:46
Speaker 1: far behind. Uh. The corresponding move for Alec Burlison will
13:50
Speaker 1: be that Garrett Hampson has been designated for assignment. So
13:52
Speaker 1: we know that one. Wilson contrasts that will be official tomorrow.
13:55
Speaker 1: Wilson contrasts that will return from his suspension on Tuesday.
14:00
Speaker 1: Another move will have to be made at that point
14:03
Speaker 1: because the Cardinals you can't play with a full roster
14:06
Speaker 1: when a player suspended, so the Cardinals been playing with
14:08
Speaker 1: twenty eight instead of twenty seven. This is big news
14:11
Speaker 1: for Burlison, and luckily he's only missed the minimum with
14:15
Speaker 1: the Cardinals that we're expecting. But Brittany, when you're thinking
14:18
Speaker 1: about how Alec Burlson can finish this season, what would
14:21
Speaker 1: you like to see from him? He's had a great year.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's about twenty twenty five percent better
14:27
Speaker 2: than he was last year. Offensively, it's because he's swinging
14:30
Speaker 2: at more strikes. He understands the strike zone from in
14:33
Speaker 2: terms of what he can hit in the strike zone.
14:35
Speaker 2: He understands what he can tee off on rather than
14:38
Speaker 2: just kind of make contact, you know. So he's really
14:42
Speaker 2: matured in that way. He's get smarter by the day.
14:44
Speaker 2: I'm just going to be really general here. The thing
14:46
Speaker 2: I want to see is what we didn't see last year,
14:49
Speaker 2: him finishing strong. I don't know whether he was a
14:54
Speaker 2: little tired towards the end of the season. I really
14:56
Speaker 2: don't know the root of that, but he really faded
14:59
Speaker 2: down the strat and I think he's much better equipped
15:03
Speaker 2: to handle that this year. I think he learned from
15:07
Speaker 2: that fade last year late last season, and so I
15:11
Speaker 2: just want to see him finish strong because I would
15:13
Speaker 2: be It would raise some questions, I guess, is the
15:17
Speaker 2: way to put it. Maybe that's fair or unfair. It
15:18
Speaker 2: would raise some questions in my mind anyway, that for
15:22
Speaker 2: the second year in a row, he's built up a
15:24
Speaker 2: really good season and then all of a sudden just
15:27
Speaker 2: fizzles out. Last year was over the final six weeks
15:30
Speaker 2: or so. This year it would be, well, just the
15:33
Speaker 2: final month. It would raise some questions like, well, why
15:36
Speaker 2: can't he put a full season together. So listen, I'm
15:40
Speaker 2: in his corner. Don't get me wrong, but I want
15:41
Speaker 2: to see him finish strong.
15:43
Speaker 1: I did too, and you know I think bur Listen.
15:44
Speaker 1: We talked about this a lot on the show. He
15:47
Speaker 1: is a key supplementary piece. No one needs Alibert Listened
15:50
Speaker 1: to be the face of the Cardinals, nor should he
15:52
Speaker 1: be expected to be right, but he is. He has
15:55
Speaker 1: power from the left side, he has a good contact bat,
15:57
Speaker 1: He's a more than serviceable defender. He's put in a
16:00
Speaker 1: lot of work to be at that place. Having players
16:03
Speaker 1: around Burlson will make him play up more so, credit
16:07
Speaker 1: to him. I think he and Herrera, when you think
16:09
Speaker 1: about the runway players have really taken this opportunity and
16:13
Speaker 1: connected with it. You know what to expect from Alec
16:16
Speaker 1: Burlson next year, and he's established that for multiple seasons now,
16:19
Speaker 1: and you know that he can go out and repeat it.
16:21
Speaker 1: So I'd like to see him finish strong. I'm with you, Bernie.
16:23
Speaker 1: I think he will be a pivotal part of this
16:25
Speaker 1: club that has arguably not in No, they have too
16:29
Speaker 1: many left handed hitters. Burlison is not an issue, though,
16:32
Speaker 1: so I think it's safe to say that he has
16:33
Speaker 1: solidified himself with this club going forward. Donovan Ronado some
16:38
Speaker 1: status updates with them as well. So they have been
16:41
Speaker 1: in Saint Louis working out. Nolan Arnado has been here
16:43
Speaker 1: all weekend. They are going to stay in Saint Louis
16:45
Speaker 1: for the next couple of days. Take some live vps
16:48
Speaker 1: here at Bushtadium against John King, who is also about
16:51
Speaker 1: to potentially begin to rehab Brendan Donovan should start his
16:54
Speaker 1: rehab assignment on Tuesday. Nolan Ronado should start his rehab
16:58
Speaker 1: assignment on Wednesday in Springfield. That might change. If it does,
17:03
Speaker 1: I'll be sure to let you all know. The hope
17:06
Speaker 1: is that both players can be back soon. Ronado has
17:09
Speaker 1: the more definitive timeline. The Cardinals are looking at having
17:12
Speaker 1: him back before the next homestand which is our final
17:14
Speaker 1: homestand so you're looking at around September fifteenth, before the
17:18
Speaker 1: three game set against the Reds. Top to Nolan Ronado
17:22
Speaker 1: on Friday with the media group, and this is a
17:26
Speaker 1: guy that really remarkably has not spent a lot of
17:29
Speaker 1: time on the injured list, and he said, if he
17:30
Speaker 1: had to go and read do it, this is just
17:32
Speaker 1: his fourth stint on the il in thirteen years. He said,
17:35
Speaker 1: if you had to go overund and do it again,
17:36
Speaker 1: I probably would just would have went on the il
17:38
Speaker 1: when I first hurt my fingers. So, in case we've forgotten,
17:41
Speaker 1: Nolan Arnado's on the ail right now with a right
17:43
Speaker 1: shoulder strain that he sustained from overcompensating a right index
17:48
Speaker 1: finger strain. So he was holding the bad difference swinging
17:50
Speaker 1: the bat different. Didn't want to put a lot of
17:51
Speaker 1: pressure on that finger, and what happened was he messed
17:54
Speaker 1: up the whole right side of his arm. So he said,
17:57
Speaker 1: in hindsight, essentially probably would have just took time when
17:59
Speaker 1: I heard my finger. That was probably the biggest mistake
18:02
Speaker 1: I made. Usually you just play through things, that's what
18:04
Speaker 1: you're taught to do. But that was a mistake I made.
18:06
Speaker 1: I didn't really evaluate myself the proper way. He said.
18:09
Speaker 1: The good news is this year hasn't felt great physically,
18:13
Speaker 1: but it didn't feel like old age injuries. I just
18:15
Speaker 1: got to get out there, show who I am, show
18:17
Speaker 1: that I'm healthy, and hit the ball hard again. That's
18:19
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna have to do when I'm really focused
18:21
Speaker 1: on those things right now. So obviously It's not been
18:23
Speaker 1: a good season for Nolan Arnatto. He'd be the first
18:25
Speaker 1: to say that. Defensively, he's still one of the best
18:27
Speaker 1: there is at the hot corner. Offensively, took a major
18:31
Speaker 1: dip again and the injuries didn't help. He missed well
18:34
Speaker 1: at this point almost six weeks, he'll have missed of
18:38
Speaker 1: the second half and that's not what you want for
18:40
Speaker 1: a guy that the Cardinals are probably going to look
18:41
Speaker 1: at training over the off season again. But he will
18:44
Speaker 1: be back. He will have hopefully two weeks to finish
18:46
Speaker 1: the season strong. Donovan as well. It's going to create
18:49
Speaker 1: another log jam. Well this means for playing time for
18:52
Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman, Thomas to JC Nathan Church. Not sure we'll
18:56
Speaker 1: have that kind of figured out over the next week
18:57
Speaker 1: or so, but for this Cardinal's team to get back
18:59
Speaker 1: to full strength over the next few days, that's really encouraging. Look,
19:03
Speaker 1: they're probably out of the playoff picture. They're four and
19:05
Speaker 1: a half games out right now from the Mets, who
19:08
Speaker 1: have the final spot, but they have a chance to
19:09
Speaker 1: play spoiler. And the fact that they've been able to
19:11
Speaker 1: kind of just hold steady with a bunch of their
19:14
Speaker 1: starters out, that's encouraging to me.
19:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they you know, they they took a piece
19:18
Speaker 2: out of the Reds who were hot, and you know,
19:21
Speaker 2: we're having hopes of being that wildcard team. The Cardinals
19:25
Speaker 2: won a series for them. They like the Giants, as
19:26
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, were on fire when they came to
19:29
Speaker 2: Saint Louis. They had won ten out of eleven, I think,
19:31
Speaker 2: and the Cardinals certainly damaged the Giants playoff hopes. So yeah,
19:37
Speaker 2: they've they have that underdog mentality. You know, they've won
19:40
Speaker 2: seven out of their last ten. Un seven of the wins,
19:44
Speaker 2: or I should say five of those seven wins have
19:46
Speaker 2: been comebacks. So if there's any has anybody wondered whether
19:50
Speaker 2: they have any inclination to pack it in just say well,
19:54
Speaker 2: we're just about over. Let's just get this thing over with. No,
19:57
Speaker 2: they're not doing that, and I admire that. And some
20:00
Speaker 2: people will say, well, that's what they're supposed to do. Yeah,
20:02
Speaker 2: I get it, But a lot of times teams don't
20:05
Speaker 2: do that when when they're down and out they've got
20:08
Speaker 2: no chance really to make the playoffs. So this team
20:11
Speaker 2: continues to battle and fight. I appreciate that they grind
20:14
Speaker 2: away despite their limitations and their problems. I appreciate that.
20:17
Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned it earlier, you know, when you
20:19
Speaker 2: got Win bat and forth. Today it's J C. Fifth,
20:22
Speaker 2: I forget who was sixth. Yeah, I mean, all due
20:26
Speaker 2: respect to those fine gentlemen, but wow, right, that's not
20:31
Speaker 2: that's not.
20:31
Speaker 1: What for as talented as he is, it's not profile
20:35
Speaker 1: as a cleanup hitter by any means.
20:36
Speaker 2: You know, Katie, I want have to say one thing
20:38
Speaker 2: about the injuries, if the one there's one thing. I
20:40
Speaker 2: hope I'll leave Marvel changes for twenty twenty six, and
20:43
Speaker 2: I'm very confident he'll be back as a manager. I
20:46
Speaker 2: know you feel the same way. And he and I
20:50
Speaker 2: have talked about this, and I can't change his mind,
20:52
Speaker 2: so it's not up to me to change his mind.
20:54
Speaker 2: We've seen this now with two players, two key players,
20:58
Speaker 2: Donovan now Iron out of And by the way, this
21:01
Speaker 2: isn't a first guess because or a second guest, because
21:04
Speaker 2: I was saying it at the time, and I was
21:05
Speaker 2: saying it kind of loudly. Actually, when when you have
21:09
Speaker 2: guys that are clearly injured and they're only going to
21:13
Speaker 2: make it worse by playing performance wise and also at
21:17
Speaker 2: the risk of complicating their injury. It happened with Donovan.
21:21
Speaker 2: This guy had one little ailment after another. He was
21:24
Speaker 2: clearly playing in pain. He said when he finally went
21:28
Speaker 2: on the IL, that the reason why he felt he
21:31
Speaker 2: developed a growing injury because he was overcompensating for the
21:34
Speaker 2: toe injury and a couple other injuries, and so then
21:37
Speaker 2: he had Then he had a long absence. Same with Aurnati,
21:41
Speaker 2: I was. I appreciate his candor saying I should have
21:44
Speaker 2: taken care of this when I had the broken finger
21:46
Speaker 2: because it led to problems with my shoulder over compensating.
21:51
Speaker 2: I don't understand any manager that just has this attitude,
21:54
Speaker 2: which like, well, if the player tells me he can plays,
21:56
Speaker 2: if he's one of my veterans, he's gonna play. Why
22:00
Speaker 2: if after if shutting him down, a player down for
22:03
Speaker 2: three or four days or one ten day stent on
22:05
Speaker 2: the IL is going to take care of an injury
22:08
Speaker 2: issue once and for all, then you get it behind
22:11
Speaker 2: the player would get it behind him, and then when
22:14
Speaker 2: he's returned, he's fresh, he feels good, he's ready to go.
22:17
Speaker 2: Two times the two of their key guys this year,
22:20
Speaker 2: they just basically let the player call the shots and
22:23
Speaker 2: the player succeeded in developing a new injury because of
22:28
Speaker 2: the first injury led to the second injury, and both
22:31
Speaker 2: of these guys led had extended as you point out,
22:34
Speaker 2: extensive absences where it could have been it could have
22:37
Speaker 2: been nipped in the butt. I just don't understand it.
22:40
Speaker 2: I won't be able to change Ali's marm on this.
22:43
Speaker 2: Maybe Heim Bloom will, because frankly, it makes no sense.
22:45
Speaker 2: If a guy's hurt, he's hurt, right.
22:47
Speaker 1: I think some of it as a testament to the
22:48
Speaker 1: players who don't want to come out of the game.
22:50
Speaker 1: You've seen that is not coming out of the ballgame.
22:54
Speaker 1: When he went to go celebrate with Jordan Walker after
22:56
Speaker 1: the walk up on Saturday, we should note that May
23:00
Speaker 1: when flying out to greet Jordan Walker, was one of
23:02
Speaker 1: my favorite holestome moments of the season. I thought, I
23:05
Speaker 1: was like, Mason, oh my gosh, you are going to
23:07
Speaker 1: get hurt. That man is twice your size. But I digress,
23:11
Speaker 1: Like Donovan doesn't want to come out of the game, Nolan,
23:13
Speaker 1: you have to drag him off the field to come
23:15
Speaker 1: out of the game. So some of it is the
23:16
Speaker 1: player's choice, but I do think you know players, I
23:20
Speaker 1: admire them trying to grind it through. Almost every baseball
23:23
Speaker 1: every baseball player is dealing with pain, and it is
23:26
Speaker 1: something that's not right. That's part of the game, but
23:28
Speaker 1: it has cost them and I think part of the
23:30
Speaker 1: reason why the Cardinals as an organization have been hesitant
23:32
Speaker 1: to place guys on the IL is because they just
23:34
Speaker 1: don't really feel like they have anyone in Triple A
23:37
Speaker 1: that can come up and help or on the forty
23:39
Speaker 1: man roster, which is a bigger problem. As we have
23:41
Speaker 1: discussed plenty of times on the show. If you don't
23:43
Speaker 1: have depth, serviceable depth. I'm not saying that all stars
23:46
Speaker 1: in your forty man roster, but serviceable, usable major league
23:50
Speaker 1: caliber depth, that is a bigger problem on the state
23:52
Speaker 1: of your organization. So that might also play into that
23:55
Speaker 1: point as well.
23:55
Speaker 2: Bernie right and real quick. One thing I will say,
24:00
Speaker 2: at least at least uh they got a chance to
24:04
Speaker 2: take more a long look at at Gorman at third base,
24:07
Speaker 2: which I think was good because he started to playing
24:08
Speaker 2: third base pretty well. He's shaky, shaky first yeah, I
24:13
Speaker 2: kept telling everyone, well, you know, can can we can
24:15
Speaker 2: we give the guy a few minutes. He started like
24:17
Speaker 2: twenty six games in the big leagues at third base
24:20
Speaker 2: before this recent stretch of a lot of games. Can
24:22
Speaker 2: we give him fifteen minutes? Maybe? You know, everyone was
24:26
Speaker 2: you know, like just destroying them online and everything, but
24:30
Speaker 2: they got a chance to see, you know, can he
24:32
Speaker 2: play third base? I think the answer is yeah, it
24:34
Speaker 2: looks like he can play third base and be fine. No,
24:36
Speaker 2: what's saying he's Aronado? But who the heck is right?
24:39
Speaker 2: I mean, for so you know, I hear people say that,
24:42
Speaker 2: well he's not Aronado. Wow, what a what a scoop
24:46
Speaker 2: that is? You know, it's like and then the other
24:50
Speaker 2: thing they you know, they got they got a chance
24:53
Speaker 2: with Donovan May. Now they got a chance to take
24:55
Speaker 2: a long look at the jac There's some things you
24:57
Speaker 2: really like about him. There's some things he clearly needs
24:59
Speaker 2: to worry But the point is that playing time for
25:02
Speaker 2: him was good, that was healthy, that was meaningful to
25:05
Speaker 2: play all of that time. So for a team that
25:08
Speaker 2: is in the runway reset the transition to whatever, you know,
25:12
Speaker 2: you don't want to see players get hurt. But when
25:14
Speaker 2: they did get hurt, at least it gave them a
25:16
Speaker 2: chance to take a more extensive look at some of
25:19
Speaker 2: their younger players, and that's there's something good came out
25:22
Speaker 2: of it in that regard.
25:24
Speaker 1: You're spot on, Bernie. I couldn't agree more. All right, Well,
25:26
Speaker 1: look ahead towards the Cardinals Mariners thriller coming up in
25:30
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26:35
Speaker 1: All right. The second to last road trip, the Cardinals
26:39
Speaker 1: will do three days in Seattle, their longest flight of
26:42
Speaker 1: the year, and off day in Milwaukee, one of my
26:44
Speaker 1: favorite cities as we know, and three games against the
26:46
Speaker 1: first place Brewers. In Seattle. You'll get Miles Michaelis on Monday,
26:50
Speaker 1: Matthew Libertor on Tuesday, Michael McGreevey on Wednesday. Those are
26:53
Speaker 1: all night games, specifically for you Central time folks. Those
26:56
Speaker 1: games will start at eight forty pm. I've never been
27:00
Speaker 1: to Seattle. This will be my twenty seventh stadium, so
27:03
Speaker 1: I'm almost to thirty out of thirty. I'm super excited
27:06
Speaker 1: about this one. It's fun and a little bittersweet to say.
27:11
Speaker 1: I'm running out of first major league cities, so I'm
27:13
Speaker 1: excited to go to Seattle and as much seafood as
27:15
Speaker 1: I can and maybe potentially watch the baseball. I will
27:18
Speaker 1: not be eating those weird cricket things, though, that is
27:21
Speaker 1: something that I already know, Chip and Brad. For those
27:23
Speaker 1: of you who missed it, we had a show with
27:25
Speaker 1: Hip Hary and Brad Thompson Voice of the Cardinals television
27:27
Speaker 1: broadcast last Friday. Check it out. I can see them
27:31
Speaker 1: just enticing me with that offer, so that will be
27:36
Speaker 1: a hard no. That's also like, thankfully they did not
27:38
Speaker 1: do this to me at course Field when they tried
27:40
Speaker 1: to get people to try the Rocky Mountain Oysters. That
27:44
Speaker 1: would have been a hard pass from me. Absolutely not, especially.
27:48
Speaker 2: If they didn't tell you what Rocky Mountain oysters really were.
27:51
Speaker 1: Well. See, sometimes like Brad specifically has a little mischievous
27:55
Speaker 1: look on his face and I can recognize it and
27:57
Speaker 1: like there's an ulterior motive here. You're not going to
27:59
Speaker 1: get me. Thank goodness, this broadcast booth has the good
28:03
Speaker 1: Ricky Horton to temper everything out because those two Chip
28:06
Speaker 1: and Brad are animals so well.
28:10
Speaker 2: Seattle is one of my favorite cities in the world.
28:12
Speaker 2: Absolutely love it, adore it. I don't travel much anymore.
28:16
Speaker 2: I haven't traveled in terms of media for a long time.
28:19
Speaker 2: There are some things about it I missed. Going to
28:21
Speaker 2: Seattle is one of them. And you know the freshest,
28:25
Speaker 2: finest seafood and just about anywhere in the United States.
28:28
Speaker 2: I mean, and this is coming from a from a
28:30
Speaker 2: dude who grew up like twenty minutes from the Chesapeake Bay,
28:34
Speaker 2: you know. But no, it's fantastic. So yeah, don't don't
28:37
Speaker 2: eat any gimmick food. Don't fall for that. You know.
28:41
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I appreciate their sense of humor. I
28:43
Speaker 2: really do.
28:44
Speaker 1: They are very funny.
28:45
Speaker 2: But you know, no, no you don't. You don't. You
28:48
Speaker 2: don't despoil Seattle by trivializing with all this like you know,
28:54
Speaker 2: practical joke food. You don't need to do that.
28:56
Speaker 1: But something I'm excited about, really besides crossing off another
29:00
Speaker 1: ballpark off my list, is that t Mobile Park. They
29:02
Speaker 1: drop hot dogs from the sky, like seventh or eighth Inny.
29:06
Speaker 1: They just have these little like parachute, many parachutes, and
29:10
Speaker 1: the hot dogs fall from the top of the dome.
29:12
Speaker 1: That's like my dream. Are you kidding me? I'm walking
29:15
Speaker 1: on the concourse and a hot dog just falls into
29:17
Speaker 1: your hand. Are you pretty good?
29:20
Speaker 2: Seattle needs to be a regular postseason team.
29:25
Speaker 1: Yes, Hey, you know what, let's enjoy five hundred while
29:28
Speaker 1: we can because the Seattle team is legit. Obviously, the
29:31
Speaker 1: Cardinals will love to mess that up. But they can bang,
29:34
Speaker 1: they can mash.
29:34
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I'd say, like, and the Cardinals fans,
29:39
Speaker 2: let's say their wildest dreams, like the three guys starting
29:45
Speaker 2: in the series for Seattle, that's what you hope the
29:48
Speaker 2: hind Bloom regime will cultivate develop where they're going to
29:52
Speaker 2: be able to line up three pictures like that. I
29:55
Speaker 2: can't give you a year. I don't know how long
29:57
Speaker 2: it'll take. It could be sooner or later. It could
29:59
Speaker 2: be sooner because because you know Matthews and Liam Doyle,
30:04
Speaker 2: and you know, they might have two of those guys
30:07
Speaker 2: kind of in place, not at the major league level,
30:09
Speaker 2: but they're the expectations they will be. But that's Seattle
30:14
Speaker 2: has just done an incredible job with starting pitching. And
30:18
Speaker 2: I look forward to watching these games because I haven't
30:20
Speaker 2: watched Seattle that much, but to me, they're an example
30:24
Speaker 2: of kind of where the Cardinals need to go, because
30:27
Speaker 2: there have been times where Seattle's offense this is this
30:30
Speaker 2: year is different, but there have been many times where
30:33
Speaker 2: Seattle's offense has been kind of like you know, and
30:37
Speaker 2: but they've had so much pitching to cover for that,
30:39
Speaker 2: and I hope that the Cardinals can do seventy five
30:43
Speaker 2: percent of the job that the Mariners have done developing
30:45
Speaker 2: starting pitching.
30:47
Speaker 1: Well, the good news here is Matt Pierpont, the organization's
30:49
Speaker 1: director of pitching. Hider of the off season came from
30:52
Speaker 1: the Mariners. So if you would like to see an
30:55
Speaker 1: indictment of Matt Pierpont's work, go ahead and check out
30:57
Speaker 1: the next three games. You'll probably like what you see.
31:00
Speaker 1: There was a reason the Cardinals targeted Matt or I
31:03
Speaker 1: think they call him Pont. I don't know what it
31:04
Speaker 1: is about baseball where you can only have one nickname
31:06
Speaker 1: and it's one syllable.
31:08
Speaker 2: In hockey it's always jonesy.
31:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, you always have a y at the end. In
31:13
Speaker 1: hockey baseball it's one syllable or it's like your initial
31:17
Speaker 1: and then a shortened last name.
31:19
Speaker 2: Like yeah, why is that? That's interesting? The two different cultures.
31:24
Speaker 1: I guess sports are weird. Sports are weird, Bertie, but
31:27
Speaker 1: we love him.
31:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would it would be he would be in hockey. Yeah,
31:31
Speaker 2: Like if he was working for the Blues, he would
31:33
Speaker 2: be uh poncey Yep.
31:37
Speaker 1: Exactly, he'd be pon exactly.
31:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty sure.
31:40
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll have some fun guests lined up
31:42
Speaker 1: over the next week, Bernie, and I back with you
31:44
Speaker 1: as always next week as well, Cardinal Territory. We are
31:47
Speaker 1: rapidly approaching the end of the season, so thanks for
31:49
Speaker 1: sticking with us. We've had some highs, we've had some lows,
31:51
Speaker 1: but hopefully this was a weekend you were able to enjoy.
31:53
Speaker 1: I thought it was a very a strong showing for
31:55
Speaker 1: the stat in this ball club, Bertie. Anything you got
31:57
Speaker 1: coming up that you'd like to.
31:58
Speaker 2: Promote, no, no, I just had to want to say
32:00
Speaker 2: one one thing before we go. I thought that the
32:02
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame induction ceremony was fantastic. I thought Joey
32:06
Speaker 2: jackety and I remember him running around the ballpark like
32:08
Speaker 2: a you know, like a seven or eight year old.
32:11
Speaker 2: Uh that that Uh. I was hoping that he was
32:16
Speaker 2: going to read his father's letter. Walt wrote that when
32:18
Speaker 2: he was literally dying, and it was when when he
32:22
Speaker 2: got the call from the Cardinals. He was deep he
32:25
Speaker 2: was deeply moved, and he was crying. Walt. He was
32:27
Speaker 2: so happy because he he knew he was going to
32:30
Speaker 2: the Hall of fame. He really wanted to be in
32:31
Speaker 2: that Hall of fame, and at least he knew. He
32:34
Speaker 2: knew that before he passed away, and he was so motivated.
32:37
Speaker 2: He had no energy. Uh, he was feeling very poor,
32:41
Speaker 2: and he insisted on writing that. And so I have
32:45
Speaker 2: this scene in my in my mind of you know,
32:48
Speaker 2: Walt Jockety just laying in that bed, but full of
32:52
Speaker 2: life because he wanted to write this letter and put
32:54
Speaker 2: his heart into that. And I know Ashley, his daughter,
32:57
Speaker 2: helped out because Walt was very, very sick. But anyway,
33:00
Speaker 2: to watch that yesterday and to see, you know, Joey Jocketty,
33:05
Speaker 2: who did such a great job handling all that and
33:08
Speaker 2: reading his father's note and also adding his own remarks
33:11
Speaker 2: Joey and getting choked up, I kind of lost it. Yeah,
33:15
Speaker 2: I got to admit, because I love Walt Jockety, and
33:19
Speaker 2: I kind of lost it. I thought that it was
33:21
Speaker 2: a beautiful, beautiful thing, and it touched everybody's emotions in there.
33:26
Speaker 2: And on a side note, I thought Al Raboski was fantastic.
33:29
Speaker 2: I really appreciate Edgar rentaia him him kind of you know,
33:33
Speaker 2: battling through.
33:34
Speaker 1: Uh.
33:34
Speaker 2: He's always been very self conscious about he doesn't spank
33:37
Speaker 2: English very well as a player. He wouldn't give interviews
33:40
Speaker 2: because he was like embarrassed or something, and we would
33:42
Speaker 2: tell him, nobody cares, man, you know, nobody you're If
33:45
Speaker 2: you're good, you're good. So I thought everybody did you know?
33:49
Speaker 2: I thought they were three excellent additions. But boy, just
33:54
Speaker 2: Walt Jockety Joe Jockety that that that just pulled at
33:58
Speaker 2: your heartstrings. I mean, there's no doubt about it shorty way,
34:00
Speaker 2: but thank God that Walt is in there and I
34:03
Speaker 2: and I'm glad that the dewitch got that done before
34:06
Speaker 2: Walt passed away. Anyway, that's I just wanted to I
34:10
Speaker 2: didn't want to let the weekend pass without mentioning that.
34:13
Speaker 1: It was an exceptional ceremony. The Cardinals do a wonderful
34:16
Speaker 1: job with their Hall of Fame ceremony. It was actually
34:18
Speaker 1: able to attend this year for the first time, but
34:21
Speaker 1: honestly shout out to the Cardinals coaching staff and the
34:24
Speaker 1: players who moved their media and clubhouse times so that
34:26
Speaker 1: most media members were able to go. Usually they coincide,
34:29
Speaker 1: and I was really moved by the history, the emotion,
34:34
Speaker 1: and it made me think Wow. I can't wait for
34:37
Speaker 1: Saint Louis to get back to this, the Red Jackets
34:40
Speaker 1: coming in. I mean during the speeches, I was in
34:42
Speaker 1: the in the stands with some fans and they were
34:45
Speaker 1: cheering along with different references and different plays, and it
34:50
Speaker 1: just reinforced like we don't need we know this, but
34:53
Speaker 1: to be in those events and to hear just how
34:56
Speaker 1: much this fan base appreciates good baseball. I can't wait
35:00
Speaker 1: for good baseball to return back to Saint Louis. So
35:02
Speaker 1: congratulations again to Alabroski at Edgarantia and of course the
35:07
Speaker 1: great late Walt Jockety for their well deserved inductions into
35:10
Speaker 1: the Cardinals Hall of Fame. And shout out to the
35:11
Speaker 1: Cardinals who continue to do one of the best jobs
35:14
Speaker 1: in baseball and honoring their greats. And they have plenty
35:17
Speaker 1: to honors. So twenty twenty six could be a big
35:19
Speaker 1: one and number four will be eligible. He was here
35:22
Speaker 1: this week and always good to see Audio Malisia.
35:24
Speaker 2: Is it number five going to be eligible as well?
35:27
Speaker 1: Number five as well, so they might have to move there.
35:30
Speaker 1: I don't know if our villages want to hold that.
35:33
Speaker 2: They're also have to change to bylaws or whatever, because
35:36
Speaker 2: right now they've whittled it down, only one modern era
35:38
Speaker 2: play gets in. Listen. I'm on that committee, and I
35:42
Speaker 2: can speak for everyone in the committee when I say,
35:44
Speaker 2: don't ask me or us to pick one over the other.
35:48
Speaker 2: They both have to go in next year. They have
35:50
Speaker 2: to the hell with your rules, screw the rules.
35:55
Speaker 1: Sorry, They're both going in.
35:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, I think I think the
35:58
Speaker 2: Dewitz are on board with them. But anyway, and then
36:01
Speaker 2: then it'll be waiting right after that. So there's gonna
36:03
Speaker 2: be a couple of Powerhouse uh uh, you know, a
36:07
Speaker 2: couple of Powerhouse years in a row. Uh. This was
36:10
Speaker 2: just the startup and man Pools and Molina at the
36:14
Speaker 2: same time.
36:15
Speaker 1: Wow, get excited, Cardinals fans.
36:18
Speaker 2: Pretty good stuff, all.
36:19
Speaker 1: Right, another week of baseball awaits on the road for
36:21
Speaker 1: Bernie mcholas. I'm Katie Woo. Thanks always for watching Cardinal Territory.
36:24
Speaker 1: We'll catch up with you soon.
36:29
Speaker 2: M h.