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Transcript

533: We Quit Our Smartphones For 6 Years. Here’s What Nobody Tells You · Now That We're A Family

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just passed my six year anniversary of not having the smart phone, and so we're going to talk about some things that we've learned over those last six years of being smart phone, you know, I've been smart phone for you for six years.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Katie followed suit a year after me, so it's been five years for Katie.
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And things have, you know, we've learned some things along the way, it's 2026, so there's going to be some things that are probably.
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: more up-to-date than past episodes that we've done on our experience going smartphone-free.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I will just say from the get, it's kind of hard for me to remember life before being smartphone-free.
0:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know that, and that's probably crazy to hear because that's how most people are when they have a smartphone as they can't picture life apart from
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: their smartphone.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the cool thing about being human as God has made us very adaptable.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, yeah, I think about when we were living in the tent and we didn't have even before we had a generator and we didn't have power there for a bit and we're just living out of the creek and
1:02
[SPEAKER_00]: making food over the hot, the open flames, that was wild.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird how quickly you can kind of get used to those things.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You adapt quickly.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you upgrade to electricity.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, well, this is nice.
1:15
[SPEAKER_00]: How did we ever do it without this?
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you upgrade to warm water when you get into a home.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is incredible.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: How did we ever not have this?
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're in something, you can't really picture it in the other way.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I actually do want to say that living without a smartphone is so much easier than living off-grid.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And you forget that it's not hard at all.
1:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You're able to go through your life totally easier.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I go and I actually use someone's smartphone now, like I use a siblings or my mothers or something because I'm over at their house,
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: repulsive to me like I know that's a strong word, but I don't like the experience versus coming out of bathing in the creek.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I took a hot bath every single day for like the first three months of living with electricity in warm water.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that would be the only thing I would mention like I just said humans are so adaptable, but we can adapt to so many different conditions.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is in a condition where I feel like I'm waking up every day choosing the harder decision.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: My life is so much simpler and easier and more efficient and more productive without a smartphone.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It is something that I never want to go back to.
2:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm so glad that you clarified Katie.
2:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of a bad example to give.
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It was living in the tent.
2:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The point I was trying to make is,
2:41
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever our current circumstances are, whether they're painful, whether they're a pleasure, a well like, pleasure, pleasureful, pleasurable.
2:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You just kind of like, you're like, this is what's normal.
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can improve those circumstances or they can get worse.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, this isn't normal anymore.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: This is better than normal.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think getting rid of our smartphones was an example of our circumstances improving, even though prior to Whereas like wise, even though we were used to living in the tent like when we got into, you know, a modern home Our circumstances improved and we're like, oh, wow, this is way better.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel similarly with getting rid of the smartphone It's like, wow, this is way better like why was I like scared to do this and so anyways, I'm on the same page
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: as you, this is, that was objectively hard, living, you know, even though we didn't know that.
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's rewarding, but it was hard.
3:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not how being smart phone free, smart phone free is, I don't think for either of us.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not this daily challenge in this daily, I guess, decision that we have to make.
3:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say actually, it's got to the point where, maybe, you know, it's been on and off, but I'd say that like,
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe once a year, I'll say, I think maybe I want to get a smartphone, would you say it's like once a year?
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get a text and I'm like, I need to get a smartphone.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what happened?
4:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And so random things will, you know, make that show up.
4:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's usually,
4:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, trying to work with the municipality or something, and you need to fill out some form online, you can't get the app on your computer and it's taking forever.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's something like that, like at the DMV and I don't have whatever I need to be able to finish the whatever they think it is.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: There always is a way though, that's the point.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it's like, we're fully legal.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Citizens here without smart phone and every once in a while.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, every not very often, maybe once a year, there will be something where you're like, wow, that took way longer because we didn't have a smart phone.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, someone sends you a link and you're typing it in.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for yourself.
4:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But I will say this.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Living without a smartphone has gotten so much easier over the last five years, not just for us because we've gotten used to it, but because the landscape of the world is changing.
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Elijah and I first got rid of our smartphones, he did it first.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were,
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost easier if you both lose your smartphones at the same time because then you just have to dive in to living a completely different life Versus trying to live the life you were living just with your spouse's smartphone when it comes up So it's like hey, can I use your phone for that QR reader or like can I use your phone for GPS?
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I'm going on a trip something like that, but it really
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We got easier after that first year because we dove in with both feet and just had to figure out a completely different way of life and weren't constantly reminded of another way of life and trying to live with one foot in both worlds.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just learned a completely different way of doing things.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is is that when we first got rid of our smartphones,
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It was still in the peak of coolness to have social media and smartphones, and since then alternative phones have rocketed in sales.
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Wise phones and my friend has something called the Sunshine phone.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: and the gab phone, and the light phone, and regular dumb phones like it's in Vogue now to dumb down your phone.
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many videos on YouTube on how to dumb down your phone, how to get an alternative phone, and people are starting to pick and choose now.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, well, I'll get this phone because I'd like podcasts and GPS, but not an internet browser or social media.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think because so many safety concerns have come out for children,
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: and then so many people are waking up to the fact that social media was a crazy experiment and then it affected a lot of us in an unhealthy way.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to get away from those things and there's kind of a mass accident.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not saying that there will always be the majority of people on a living a high-tech lifestyle.
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But the low-tech lifestyle has become a big enough
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: part of the population, the people are now servicing that part of the population.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we used to go to restaurants when we first did this, there would be QR codes on the table and they would like panic if you asked for a paper menu.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you asked for a paper menu, they're like, oh yeah, we've got tons of them.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, some people are reversing some of the things that they thought were going to be these great high-tech or low-tech high-tech options.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think especially because of COVID people are going more contactless and stuff like that.
7:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But then it turns out that people won it a little bit more contact.
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's come back into Vogue.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, COVID's a great example of a time where it was uniquely challenging to not have a smart phone because a lot of places they only did contactless payments you had to pay ahead you had to order ahead if you wanted to get food.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing like I said I already mentioned the DMV I'll bring that up again because I think that was another scenario we are moving we had to get our driver's license updated and I remember the whole rig number all I had to go through because I didn't have the proper app.
7:55
[SPEAKER_00]: that they were requiring.
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that was a uniquely challenging time and it's only got an easier since then.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are a right Katie that the demand in the market has made it so that it's worth businesses interest to now develop hardware that's unique.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, you mentioned the wise phone the life phone.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Early on, I think companies like the life phone, I think they were like crowdfunded with their, or something like that with their first iteration.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had to find a very kind of like niche audience to market that too.
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I think bigger companies, because that's really at the end of the game, like at the end of the day, it is a money game, it's capitalism, it's like, what is the demand?
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, smart phones are always, I don't know if they're always, but they're currently still the greatest demand, and that's where all the money's at, but there are a bunch of little sub-cultures popping up that are making it worth companies, I guess, interest to invest in lesser phones, basically less capable phones.
8:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I was going to, I don't know how you were going to go about this episode.
8:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Katie, I was just going to kind of break down some of the most practical things that we do that these questions come up a lot, okay?
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like travel and navigation, travel and navigation is one of the most commonly asked questions that we get.
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think early on a presented one of the more unique challenges to being smart phone free.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, it's funny because Katie and I just got done writing a book on living as a low-tech family and one of the chapters was on travel and all that.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I wrote, we don't, I think I said something along the lines, like we don't travel as much as many as much as some people or our editor right away.
9:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, okay, like, you travel way more than anyone I know.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like, I follow people and stuff to know that you guys travel way more than the average person.
9:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will just accept that now and say, like, I think that Katie and I are, like, your father's a jet setter or brother and laws of jet setter, like they're always on planes and they're in different countries and things like that.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But as I compare myself to them, I don't really travel that much, but we do travel I think more than the average person.
9:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're on planes, on flights, you know, I don't know, I probably take trips that require a flight.
10:02
[SPEAKER_00]: not every month, but probably like 10 times a year on average.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So probably not every month, but I'm on some sort of trip that requires commercial flight, I'd say 10 times a year.
10:12
[SPEAKER_00]: In some way, a little less probably, because I'll do some of that without you, but you probably a dozen times, or half a dozen times, right six times a year.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're usually flying as an entire family once or twice a year as well.
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just like a day in the life of when I'm flying somewhere, what it looks like is, I do print off my boarding pass ahead of time because I like having the physical copy, just be able to go through security with that.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go to the desk there at the airport and get a boarding pass printed off, but I just like printed off at home.
10:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So you do need a printer.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: What's crazy is that a lot of phones you can still have the reader on there, right?
10:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even if you can't, even on like a live a smart phone that has your, you're taking on it.
10:54
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of like flip phones, a lot of lesser smart phones.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have a ticker reader on there, you know, with the QR code and stuff.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so you could still do that, uh, for navigation, for travel.
11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, people ask us all the time, what do you do without maps without GPS?
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really think that this is one of those things that people haven't.
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They, they, they, they, they most people have driven without GPS.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know a lot of young people, like there's people that are like 19, 2021.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They've, they're only driving experiences been with.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: being guided by GPS, but still most of us, most millennials can remember, can if they think for a little bit, can remember a time where they just knew the streets, they knew the layout of their town, and then if they were going somewhere new, they would look up directions ahead of time.
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what we do.
11:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, again, it's not like we had to even relearn anything.
11:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of what we've had done already.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't have like a big paper map and the car were like tracing routes or anything.
11:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you just go to Google Maps.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I went to a new hair salon this week.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in a city that I'm not very familiar with.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I typed in the address and I'm like, OK, I know how to get from here to within about five minutes away and then wrote down the last three streets.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: and when straight there.
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not hard and I wasn't trying to navigate while I was trying to drive and eat my food and call my mom and get there on time.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So it actually really simplified the process for me.
12:22
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12:26
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12:37
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12:38
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12:44
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12:51
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12:54
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12:57
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13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: When they see other families putting together songs or other individuals progressing on their instruments,
13:09
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13:17
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13:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think what people will say is, well, I use GPS every day, everywhere I go.
13:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe you, but I don't think you need to.
13:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we've gotten so accustomed to being like, hey, meet me at this coffee shop.
13:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Meet me, you know, or meet me at your polling and they type in your polling and they follow the phone to your polling.
13:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it takes one time to go there, or they say, well, wait, which one are you talking about?
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, the one that's across the street from Target, and I'm like, oh, okay, that one, that's usually at all you need, and you can go there, but people don't do that anymore.
13:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's really interesting is, again, we are not anti-technology, but it is funny.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And we look like total deans a lot of times without our tech, like it'll put us in kind of funny awkward situations in there.
14:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you too.
14:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think every once in a while will still be like, okay, sorry, guys.
14:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we don't have a smartphone here, maybe every once in a while, but.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still blown away by like very capable, I mean, this happened three weeks ago.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I was driving with like very capable man, okay?
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this guy is successful in business, total outdoors men.
14:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is nothing like goober or incompetent about this person.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were following his phone's directions to address.
14:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were meeting with a bunch of other people at this spot.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And we got, and we like, we saw everybody that we knew we were meeting up with.
14:48
[SPEAKER_00]: place that was obviously the place that we are going to and it was breaking his brain because like the maps had him going another like 8th of a mile past he's like no the maps taking me here like what's everybody and I'm like oh this is where we're meeting like right here and it's like he couldn't
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He was so fixated on the phone in the mask.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, no, the map's taking us here.
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've all seen that happen numerous times.
15:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, you see the address, the physical address.
15:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I see it on the house right there, but the maps taking you, or the phone is taking you further.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I'm following the phone.
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's like that extreme example of Michael Scott driving into the lake because like the GPS is taking him there.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But that actually isn't that far fresh from a lot of people today.
15:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they're like, no, it says it's right here.
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like,
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, clearly it's not, clearly it's across the street or it's on the other side of this block, you know, on the other side of this building.
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is one of those things that you just with Google, you look something up ahead of time, you can figure out where places are, and I will say this.
15:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm glad you brought the hair salon, Katie.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't happen like 90% of our driving, and I would guess 90% of our listener's driving is in very familiar
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They go there multiple.
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They know how to get there.
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's church, or it's where the homeschool co-ops at, where they meet for Bible studies, they go to the gym, they go to the library, they go to the same park.
16:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't actually need to look all those places up, each time that you go.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that maybe you do, and it might be an adjustment, get in away from that, but you can learn.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not always going to new places as well, I'm saying.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a huge adjustment for me.
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I always said I was terrible at directions and used my GPS in our hometown that I grew up in for, I lived there for a long time on an off and was still using GPS to get to Costco, to get to random places.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I did not go anywhere without GPS and I got lost.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that's just because our brains are underdeveloped.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't try.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know the grid of our town so easily.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny, like even going to the hair salon, it's like, yeah, I had directions to get there.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't need any directions to get back.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime I go somewhere now, I can always get home.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that didn't used to be the case.
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to punch in home and start off again, like I have never seen these streets in my life.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is how most people live.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It is funny.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We were following some friends home to their home.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: in their hometown, and the husband was using GPS, and we got there before them, just via Alisha's sense of smell and North and South.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a place I used to live to.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he used to live there too, but he just knew the general idea of where their neighborhood was.
17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We got there so fast and beat them there in the dark.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, how did you get here?
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you've never been to the house before, and Alisha's like, I knew the general area.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think it's an area that you actually develop very quickly.
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like when you take off training pedals off your bike, your floaties, or something the first couple months, you're just like in a cold sweat, like writing down all the details, taking screenshots of directions, like how am I going to do this?
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like having...
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: a newborn baby for the first week and you're like, I am never going to be as efficient as I was before.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What on earth just happened to me.
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like you give yourself a few months and you're like, it's not even a big deal.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how our progression has been with footphones.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Initially, we were
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: double checking and crossing and you know the first time you're flying without a flip or your smartphone you're like are we going to get held up at the past you know you just don't know what's going to go wrong and then you do it a few times you're like okay this is no big deal and people are so helpful when they know that you can't just do it on the app
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about this before, but we went to New York this year for a 10th anniversary, so much fun.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We've never been to the city before.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're navigating the subway and the place and all the reservations and the bus tours and a life-shadowed a great job planning out the trip without flippons and without navigation.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: with little tons.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was funny because we made it to one of the plays and the way our printer had worked, the whole QR code wasn't on there.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so we go up to the ticket window.
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, the way the gal had sold us our tickets.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought them on like a third party site or something.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't really traceable.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They were under her name and we couldn't remember what her name was.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't have our smartphone there because we couldn't look up the confirmation like, yeah, we obviously bought Tracy's tickets.
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Our names are Katie and Alisha.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Thy deed doesn't match the ticket name, but we bought them.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: The people next to us had the exact same issue with their smartphone, and what's funny is the ticket window just totally worked with us, and was like, as soon as we said like, we're up the creek without a paddle, we can't look that information up.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He just went to work trying to figure out what to do, and it ended up connecting us with those tickets on his end.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas the other couple, we already went in,
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: and found our seats and the other couple was sent in the corner within app that someone said to download on their phone to try to find where their tickets were.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, we aren't going to help you, you help yourself.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But dealing with people in person when they realize that they're the only person that could be the hero for you, it's crazy how much customer service kicks in.
20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Versus like, oh, go do this by yourself over in a corner.
20:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and just to wrap up that story, that was because I had made a mistake.
20:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I had actually printed the same ticket off twice.
20:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that, all of that regular morale was completely unnecessary.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was for the other shows we went to, I just printed the tickets off, ahead of time, we went, because this was like something wrong.
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, I had done my, I failed ahead of time.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so none of that was preventable, even with dumb phones, right, without smartphone.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And then to your point, Katie,
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We've become so individualistic as a nation, as a society.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so afraid to interact with people, ask for directions, ask for restaurant recommendations, or ask for help.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And every time I find myself needing to assist in, because I don't have a smartphone on me,
21:04
[SPEAKER_00]: it is the best experience ever.
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's a great example.
21:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And this doesn't happen a lot, but it's probably a couple times a year, where it's like, oh, hey, somebody's like, we'll just look this up, look that up.
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, sorry, I don't have a smart one.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no way.
21:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I like make a friend and you get to be a person.
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there is something that's kind of inherently anti-human about more and more technology.
21:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, again, we like technology.
21:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not anti-technology, but a lot of times, the more advanced we get.
21:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would say not the lot of times.
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: The more advanced we become in technology,
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: human interaction.
21:35
[SPEAKER_00]: There is.
21:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And bypasses a lot of human interaction.
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that that's unfortunate.
21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I think human interaction can be a really good thing.
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so any time that we've been forced, you know, I say, to have to ask for help or get assistance because we don't have a smartphone, it's been only positive.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've come out like new friends.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's great.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say this, there's never not been a work ground ever, yes.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I mean, we're talking even digital like two factor authentication on a computer to get into your locked account or whatever.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they'll say, we want to try another way when you say, I can't do that on my smart phone.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they'll say, well, this might take three or four business days to verify.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you click the okay fine button, and then they let you verify right there.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, there's so many things where people are trying to funnel you into the most efficient route for them, which is fine, but then once you say you can't do it, it turns out there is a pretty solid backup plan.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This happened when I was trying to apply for the kids' birth certificates online, and you go through the whole process, and you have to verify your ID, and
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a whole thing you needed the app to do it.
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't use a web browser.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just emailed the random address on the bottom, and I was like sorry, I don't have a smartphone.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And they got back right away.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: This random company, I didn't think I was gonna ever hear back from.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, no worries.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Just take a picture, send it here.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll verify it, and they got back to me within a few hours.
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, I've never been able to do something because
23:10
[SPEAKER_01]: of not having a smartphone.
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you've never not been able to do something.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank you.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, sir.
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: No, maybe you did say that.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to like play on my own brain.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go continue on in the progression of traveling because this is, we hit a few secrets here.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, get your passport, yeah, what you have that.
23:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, um,
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You're what do you call it?
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you're tick at your flight, you know, but boarding pass.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you just have your confirmation code written down though, you just go to the desk and they print it right there.
23:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can see that look it all up ahead of time.
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You go, you park, again, all of this is all very analog, right?
23:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Parking at the airport or getting dropped off.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You go in, you check your bag.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this is all very, you don't need technology for it.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go through, you can get, you can do pre-check or you can do,
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: normal, you know, normal line with just with what you don't need a smartphone, I guess if I'm saying for any of this, you go, you get on your flight, you land, now if you do have a rental car, again, I reserve one ahead of time, if we're renting a car and you book that ahead of time.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Then same thing, you go to the rental car desk, you need a credit card, you don't need to smartphone.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: They will tell you you need a check-in online check-in on here.
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You can check it on your computer or you can not if it's reserved.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I'll get them to be like, did you check-in?
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no, I didn't check, wasn't able to check-in.
24:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, I just checked you in, here's your car.
24:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's usually an interaction like that.
24:31
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm using Uber, which is pretty much the only like car ride service we use, I do use my computer for that.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can order cars, you don't have to have the app, you can go to the web version of Uber.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will either connect to the airports, internet, or I'll use the hotspot on our flip phones.
24:49
[SPEAKER_01]: These little dumb flip phones have a hotspot that you can use.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then I stand out on the curb, you know, wherever I'm at, like, this is at L-A-X.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in Chicago.
25:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's when we're in New York, we're reflying to JFK at JFK, and I'm standing there.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got their phones out.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm holding my laptop.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I look a little goofy, maybe, or I don't know what it looks like, but I'm standing waiting for my car with my laptop.
25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: open and then our car comes, I get in the car and we go it's the same thing checking into a hotel like you don't need to smart phone for any of these things they tell you hey check in ahead of time on your phone well you can do that on your computer or you could just not check in ahead of time and if you've got a reservation you go there and you check in when you check in.
25:35
[SPEAKER_00]: and then same thing with like looking up restaurants.
25:39
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're getting there together somewhere, we'll look up ahead of time when we're at a hotel and we're like, oh, this place looks good.
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just, you know, you map out how you get there and you go for a walk and it's really, I don't know, it's really fun, it's very,
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: straightforward and again I know this is all very obvious but I thought it might be helpful just kind of like walk you through the sequence of getting from point A to point B to C to D to D to then getting home and you do the exact same thing going home right so I'll have printed out my boarding pass is coming home ahead of time as well so there is there is what's required and this is this is the one thing that like
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: technology is really good.
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good when you're not prepared.
26:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what not having smartphones is made astute is it's helped us be more prepared ahead of time.
26:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't take a lot of time.
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it saves us time in the end.
26:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just time upfront.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so sometimes you are multi tasking while you're trying to do something else.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's what the smartphone has lies about is that we're so efficient and we can do you can do so many things at one time.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you're not actually at efficient and just splits your brain to a million pieces, but you don't have to be prepared.
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just the bottom line.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be more prepared without the phone.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do preparation upfront.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
26:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just enjoy the experience.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You live your life because you're prepared.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: is exactly and so even for I'm glad you brought that up.
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So like knowing the address to the hotel, not just the name of your hotel, because a lot of times when you have a smartphone, you just start typing in whatever the the maria in whatever town you're going in, you know, there's a spring hill, whatever, and it, you know, it gives of the recommendation, just select that one.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's what the Uber sees and they take you and you never know the address to your hotel right you don't have to your phone knows it for you But if you know the address to your hotel and then you're not able to get your Uber You have to take it to cab or you like you get in whatever the right situation You know where you're going like you know and even beyond that it's good to know the general area to where you're going
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, this doesn't take a long time.
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like sitting down for an hour and doing reconnaissance before every trip.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's literally like five minutes.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, okay, this is the airport I'm flying in.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, our home airport, we're very familiar with, so we don't really need to prepare for that.
27:52
[SPEAKER_00]: but if I'm flying into wherever, you know, San Francisco, okay, this is where the airport's at, you know, okay, this is what's close.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm going to hear that means that we're gonna be getting on this freeway, then connecting this freeway, and then we're gonna get off at this exit, and it takes like a couple minutes.
28:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really nice too, it's funny because,
28:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We are actually in Las Vegas for a business conference like a month ago, and again, Las Vegas is a very convenient airports right next to the right next to the city.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not like, it's a very straightforward city.
28:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I looked up ahead of time where we were going to be going to this business conference.
28:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed like, like, I was just, we were just going and he was getting off the freeway and we were supposed to take a left and he took a right.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Our taxi, do we have a Uber?
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did.
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't even say anything.
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I just looked at him and he goes, oh, sorry.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, I take a right here and then I flip a you because this left hand turn takes forever.
28:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, I knew where we were going and I was like, what do we do and taking all the, you know, I was like, is this guy going to go kill us somewhere?
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does feel helpful, I guess, to know generally the area that you're in, and you can't always know this, I get that, like you can't always be prepared with what might be coming your way, but like 90% of the time, 90% of the time, everything's pretty predictable, and you know that, okay, if I have to take a train, I have to get off of this stop, if I have to take a bus, I know what's street to get off, and it doesn't take a lot of time, it takes like five minutes before your trip and you're ready to go.
29:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, if you get turned around, you just ask somebody, right?
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: If you get off before your stop or something, it's like, where am I?
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: How much further do I have to go?
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's never been in the world scenario for us.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes, if you don't have a computer too, we have just taken a taxi, because that's great.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just go step in one of those things.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still fan of that.
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, just knowing your address or the play, that's all you need.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: it's all you need.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really when it comes to smartphone, that's why I'm saying when you kind of jump into it as a family and you aren't trying to dip your toe into both worlds, you just live a different life.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So you prepare more like you have a different set of operating systems that you go through when you have a flip phone and you have a certain set of operating systems that you go through when you have a smartphone.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just are going to do things at different times.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the biggest difference between the two.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So once you learn how to
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: then you make all your decisions that way.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're trying to operate by one and use the other tool, that's where it gets really jumbly.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's the learning curve for the first month or two, or however long when you transition to a new phone, it's like re-learning how you're going to do your standard day-to-day procedures.
30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's really simple.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say, like
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: In New York, Alisha was really good at planning ahead of time certain restaurants we wanted to visit and stuff like that kind of scoping out the area.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But there were some days for lunch where it's just like, hey, we're just going to go walk and when we find a place we're going to eat there.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, like, we find a lot of fun places that way.
30:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually when we're on a trip, we just drive or we walk, and we come to a restaurant row, and we kind of pick one that looks interesting.
31:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like we're trying to dial in the best spot to eat every time we go.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we find great places, you know, in new towns or things like that too.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes we're just making decisions based off of convenience and what we see, and it's a little bit more old-fashioned than feeling like we need all the information and all the reviews and all those things.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: before we just make a decision on where to eat or which park to go play out with the kids or something like that.
31:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so anyways, I feel like I got totally derailed like on travel and navigation because that's a big one though.
31:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so with things like the subway, with things like buses, trains,
31:39
[SPEAKER_00]: From all from our experience.
31:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and this is all been domestic.
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's the one thing that we don't have a lot of experience in is International travel without a smart phone.
31:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'd love to hear from somebody that maybe has done that.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it exists I know that people do it.
31:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I just haven't really heard how that how that goes But like a credit card gets you on all those things.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Right a credit card gets you or like a tap if you got taps like you can get on the subway the bus the train
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is another random story.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to go get on the subway and Alisha and I beat our cards.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: His like a credit card and a debit card.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We go through the thing and get on the subway.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And the gal next to me is trying to get her phone to register and it keeps going declined, declined, declined.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And her friends threw on the other side.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're talking, she's like, my app's broken.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's going on.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like she took the time to download this specific subway app.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: and now it's not accepting her app, you know, where it's like, they just took our money and moved on.
32:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of the time, the whole purpose of downloading an app is to get your information and to be able to follow up with you with notifications.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's all a power play game, it's all a money game.
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They say it's more efficient, and there might be more efficient processes to it, but most of the time our lives are much simpler when we are collecting Perth Anilia for every specific restaurant and activity and item, and we just pay with cash or a card, or look up the web browser and do it online that way.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's funny because we're talking about all of the work rounds that we have for when we travel and we're not even really talking about the perks that go with smartphone free travel because I feel like travel is actually become one of my favorite things about being smartphone free.
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Initially, it's like just being home with the children and being at the dinner table with you and being able to
33:31
[SPEAKER_00]: be at church and just to feel so free from the constant connectivity to email and to work and to notifications and social media.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the way I felt at most at home.
33:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I was being able to go on a hike and be so present and be with the children.
33:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I felt at first there and I still thoroughly enjoy that, right?
33:48
[SPEAKER_00]: The lack of distractions that we have within our home because we don't have smartphones.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But now, like my favorite thing is traveling because we're so much more present that we were prior to being smartphone free, where we get to enjoy Central Park.
34:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We get to enjoy the beach, you know, when we go to the coast, we get to enjoy whatever 11-worth-earward skiing as a family, we're just so present, and that's not to say we don't capture the moments, but it's with a point-and-shoot camera, so we do bring a camera.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: and we capture a handful of photos from each spot which is what you which is all that's required for you to be able to have this trip documented or have these memories you know I guess canonized for your family and and so again you don't need hundreds of photos like that's a funny statistic you know that like again with the showed up with the whole some of the research that we did for the book is how
34:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, thousands of photos people have on their phones, only to never be viewed again, and then actually be deleted for more space, right?
34:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They delete them, and then they move on.
34:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not even enjoying those photos.
34:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We do take photos every time we go on a family trip, and we go, you know, on hikes and fiddle contests.
34:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got a dozen photos for each event, and then we select the best ones.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We put those in like a scrapbook at the end of the year, and we've got them really, I guess, yeah, set apart for a future memory, future memory, future reminiscence.
35:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, that's something else I was gonna say.
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about like, oh, here's the work around these could be headaches, but you could figure out like this is like, no, we're talking like, we're addressing the pain points or the potential pain points, not even talking about how blissful life is because of not having the iPhone.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and again, once you learn these things, it no longer takes up any cognitive load in your brain.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like we're wondering about the next thing.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We just, we know how to do this now, and so it's like breathing.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just able to enjoy the benefits.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We aren't actively working around things anymore.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: When you start, you are, because again, you're used to doing something a certain way, and you're not used to do it this way.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I have to do it a different way.
35:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say something else too, with flight changes.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Cake is inevitably, your flights get delayed or you miss a flight again.
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I, it's just so funny how with the current technology that's at airports, the, you know, the boards are updated quickly.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's over the, at the loudspeaker, I will be informed, sooner than a lot of people that are glued to their phone, because so we'll all be at the gate waiting, or whatever it is.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll see like on the, on the board, you know, like the flight, oh, delayed.
36:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, can't, whatever, you know, and it's like, oh, I just got updated there.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it, like,
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like somebody's like, I'll just see our flight got delayed, you know, like a minute later on their phones and then it comes out over the loudspeaker.
36:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But like there's just, you get informed on all these things and they tell you where to go, what gate to go to, if there's a gate change.
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just never, I've never found myself.
36:53
[SPEAKER_00]: like total lead add a loss because it's like what like my gate changed and I didn't have a smart phone.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the other thing too.
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it like they send text messages to flip phones and so stuff like that will still go to your flip phone.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about kids sports real quick because that was an area I was nervous about.
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Every sports team even schools now it's like you need the app.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: to sign your child in or drop them off or things like that.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because with our daughter's gymnastics class, I just went up to the friend desk and I was like, I'm so sorry.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a flip phone.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be able to check her in on the app every time.
37:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, no worries.
37:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll know she's here or not.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's like a non-issue for us.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because the other moms are stressing out trying to check their kids in or not check them in.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they said she has to check in, again, an option that the studio could have asked for or the gym is just have her check in at the front desk.
37:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But instead, they just weren't worried about it and they're like, we'll see that she's here in the class, she's in a small enough class.
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the same thing.
37:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to a due-jutsu tournament.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a huge tournament.
38:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There are mats everywhere.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember one of our sons was supposed to be it's not called wrestling, it's called what's it called grappling on a certain mat and they changed it so the location of his match was changed to another mat and the rough came over and just said hey the location is changed for this match and so I just went to the other mat and out to the other mat and
38:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was funny because they left behind so many parents that were like, well, on the app, it says that they're still wrestling here on this map.
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're arguing with the RF over like, the app hasn't changed.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like updated, very real data from this RF.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're still wondering, they're caught like the guy with the directions between the app or the in-person information that they're getting.
38:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really simple for us to just be like, we're just gonna go to the other map.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where he ended up wrestling.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: funny how many it's not funny you will get in person communication.
39:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The coaches want your kid at the game you know so if they have to send you a text because you're not on the app they'll do that or often though there's like a backup on the app and you're going to get an email notification you're going to sign up for a text notification people want to be able to contact you
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so nowadays, there are so many different variations how they can double up and triple up contacting you.
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've never been left in the dark, and never been able to not participate in something with our children, even if we're told initially you're going to need an app.
39:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again,
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: A handful of times we've been able to, or if we really needed an app, which I can't think of any examples, but a lot of times we've been able to download a desktop version of the app, or there's a web browser version of the same technology that we're able to use and accomplish the same tasks on.
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we used Slack frequently with our business and everybody that works with us, and we've got the, you know, it's on our laptop.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: same with e-mail, same like we still use all these technologies e-mail.
40:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we're using YouTube, you know, and podcasting platforms.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I can all of this.
40:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And even going back to that like, I do have our daughter's gymnastic app on the web version on my computer.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I'm still going to update some notifications in the loop.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just I can't do it on the fly, basically when I'm not at home.
40:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I don't know, do you feel like we covered everything on with navigation?
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know there's a lot of things to cover with that.
40:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you did a pretty good job though.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, again, just no, I think knowing ahead of time where you're going, it's, it, this is,
40:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've saved time by not having a smartphone because I've spent like five minutes before it's a part of my habit now.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's like, okay, where are we meeting up for the hike?
41:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, where's breakfast tomorrow?
41:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, where's like you asked that question, I'm gonna look that up and what you need an app, what you need the smartphone for is if you're not prepared.
41:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, okay, I'll get them tomorrow morning.
41:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll start heading there and it was in that text Red, I'm going to go back through the text red and find that link and then I'll find directions on the way Which is fine, like in that works when it works, right?
41:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That that all can work for people, but you'll need to kind of learn a new system if Yeah, if you're not doing that
41:32
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah just the presence that we're able to have that you're able to have with our kids like I know you put in the effort up front but when we're going somewhere when we're going on a family road trip or whatever oh I just totally present with me we're visiting in the front seat or he's talking with the kids and my dad's incredible okay but I contrast that with every time we went somewhere and still to this day he's such a guy on the fly
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's doing that same thing.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, looking through email, trying to find the, you know, the link in their reservation and stress is just rising in the car and we're driving all over, you know?
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I think people can probably relate to that where it's like, it's just right here and the lives it's so accessible and it's so always there you don't need to, again, think ahead and it takes you totally out of the present moment and has you preparing
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: really for the next moment and then pre-preparing for the next moments you can like check in early instead of just like we're just going to sit in these cool chairs in the hotel and visit and then we're going to walk up to the desk and then we're going to check in and then you know you're always trying to pre-preprepare for something right which just puts us on our phones all the time and and we don't need to it doesn't make it any faster.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it really doesn't.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, any time we've, I just like being present.
42:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So wind stuff is taking a silly amount of time because we don't have the app.
42:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I still like it.
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I still like interacting with the people.
42:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I still like being present with my kids.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we don't condemn anyone for having a smartphone at all.
43:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there is all of our best, we're the weirdos here.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We get that, like, we're never in a room or in some cult that's like a smartphone for people.
43:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're ever hanging out with smartphone for people.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that there are people that email us.
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like all under 19.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: who their parents said that's the phone you're getting.
43:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
43:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we are not high-mighty, but if you're one of these people that's like, I would like to get rid of my smartphone.
43:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, here are some things that we do that make it possible.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't want to get rid of your smartphone, we love being around people that like their smartphone.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we do.
43:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like if you're using it, that's great.
43:41
[SPEAKER_00]: We hope it's a asset to you.
43:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is really for the people that I wish I could, or I've always wanted to, or I'm kind of scared to, but it seems like it could be a good idea.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what we're doing this for.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, there's things I still order grocery delivery to our home, I just do it online.
44:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost everything has a web-based version, so you could just do it at home, you just have to make sure that you're home to do it and that you didn't forget and you're trying to do it in your car while you're going somewhere else or waiting in a parking lot or something like that.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think too, it's funny, even when people need smartphones for work, it's usually for one specific application.
44:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Alisha, when he was doing real estate, he needed an app on his phone to unlock the lock boxes.
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was just what, that was the system of the brokerage that he was working at and he couldn't get around that.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just having an iPad and it's like, you have the one application on the iPad, it's crazy, you aren't like pulling out your iPad while you're driving and trying to find stuff.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean, but it can do the one job that you need it to do.
44:55
[SPEAKER_01]: absolutely without fail.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are things like that or you can connect it to your hotspot on your phone if you need it.
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Or having, um, again, the hotspot in the laptop has worked for us, and that would probably have worked for a lockbox back in the day two.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We just did.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
45:09
[SPEAKER_01]: No, anything about that.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have QR code readers, on our laptop.
45:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we need them, um, I will say this.
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're state home, mom, you do not need your smartphone.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: you just don't to live life period.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There are probably cases, again, with working people who work full-time and need it for their job.
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you stay at home, there's just nothing that you aren't going to be able to figure out on a desktop computer if you need it.
45:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think of anything else that would be helpful in terms of,
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: This comes up every once in a while and how do we stay in touch?
45:49
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we listen to podcasts?
45:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, we use computers for that.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we're such huge fans of that is because the lack of distraction that comes with a computer.
45:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going there for a very specific purpose.
46:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You look it up.
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, there are occasional distractions, but not like a phone.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a phone.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just all encompassing and you see all your notifications when you open it up and you see all the different apps.
46:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you turn all the notifications off and you're not getting the alerts, you see all the apps and your brain goes to all those places instantly.
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Versus if you just open your computer and you pull open your podcast app and you go to the handful of podcasts that you're subscribed to and you listen to those.
46:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Or even if you pull up your browser and you pull up YouTube, it's much more curated to like what it is you're trying to look for there and you go to YouTube.
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, similarly, I still, you know, get on ESPN.com, but it's like, I'm getting on very intentionally.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm like, oh, what's the score in that game?
46:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not trying to validate that it's still total, like, leisure pastime, waste of time, whatever you want to call it.
46:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not this incestant use of ESPN like it was when I had a smartphone where I'm just constantly checking scores and I'm constantly checking those stats or what about this game and it's the same thing with with YouTube I'm not like shorts aren't a fat you can't there are shorts on the desktop version of YouTube but you can hide it and it's just not a factor like it's not a part of my consumption have it and so that's that's less of a factor.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because it really basically the things that we do for entertainment, we can still podcast YouTube websites, maybe that we like to check.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We can still pull up on a desktop, but you have to be so much more, we do it so much less because you have to be at that.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: at that device.
47:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just always there, so you aren't checking it again in the car in the parking lot, and you know, and it's constantly taking your brain somewhere else.
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a few minutes a day, maybe before bed.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, I wanted to check that, or if you're cleaning up, I wanted to listen to that podcast or something like that.
47:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I do just listen to a lot less, and I watch a lot less.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: since having it be on a computer and there are things like going on walks in the morning or runs or things like that, I don't listen anything anymore.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to listen to music, I used to listen to podcasts, I don't do that anymore.
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny is that was something I really missed early on, but now it's just it's less information and I really like it.
48:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I get a prey, sometimes the life should come, so I get a visit with him.
48:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the best.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I just think through the day and I just
48:26
[SPEAKER_01]: get really organized instead of adding in more information to my life.
48:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just sorting through what I already have to do.
48:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I love that time to just think and be in nature and not try to multitask an information cram all the time.
48:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me and that is a great word information cram, you know, because that's what it ends up being.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, I don't know, drop in the comments below if there are other things that you have come to your minds that we are not addressing here.
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I do want to say two more things.
48:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, we have a couple chapters in the book and we're like excited to talk about in terms of connectedness because I think a lot of women maybe who are stay at home moms, their fear is being disconnected.
49:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we talk through statistically what that looks like and the myth of what we are connected to because really we're connected to nothing in a lot of situations.
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's leading to a lot of anxiety and depression where we think that the social media or the text threads are going to get us out of those things that are pulling us into those things statistically, that's what the data showing.
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But that said, we do have honor computers, we have math computers, and so we have eye message.
49:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So, family eye messages were still in the threads.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, all the family photos and all that stuff comes through on our computers.
49:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, again, this is something I check before I go to bed.
49:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not something I get throughout the day, but I'm able to stay connected with our families that we do not live close by.
49:51
[SPEAKER_01]: With, if you don't have something like I message, you know there's things like, we, what's that thing that you use if someone's in another country?
50:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what's that?
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Green?
50:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what's that?
50:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's ways that these apps have desktop browsers that you can stay in contact with your family and group text threads and send photos and things like that.
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's a really a big part of your life.
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: What's app or signal have like web browser, I think they've got the application on for desktop though.
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, there's something that you can, I'm just saying there's options.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't done the research on that, I haven't used it.
50:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the thing with social media is that was the number one thing, aside from travel, that it was difficult for us to get off of because our business at that point was on social media, primarily Instagram being run by stories and by posts.
50:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are running a business on social media, I will say you don't have to kill that business in order to still keep that business going on social media.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: There's two options and we did both of them in succession.
51:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one was we ran our business on social media for a year because it was a business there was money coming in and so we took the investment to pay someone
51:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So, instead of using it ourselves, having to have that all day 24-7, I was freed up to be a mother.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We used a point in shoot camera to film our content.
51:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We uploaded it to a platform.
51:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I captioned everything or a live show would caption everything and then someone else would post it at different times.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That was still actually...
51:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It was more efficient for the business because it would all happen at one time and then someone would post it.
51:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have to be live posting it at lunchtime or at times that were stressful in our home.
51:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was a lot of friction there.
51:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And our ideal was just completely moving the business off that platform.
51:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where we're at today, is we no longer have those short form content platforms.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've just moved off that platform and to be able to be able to market the business, via podcasting and email.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's just how it worked out for us.
52:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We felt like those things were a lot more manageable and we're more enjoyable for us to create.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We spend less time on tech.
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: in order to create those things, because we don't have to be in app, to create those things, and so it's a lot more rewarding for us to create content off of apps and then just put it out there as a marketing platform.
52:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are kind of your options, but you're well, actually you can't upload to Instagram via a laptop as well.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the insist plugin.
52:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do all that.
52:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that with the paper.
52:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We did some of that.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: as well.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can do stories and posts.
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's something I don't think you could do links maybe.
52:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It has some limitations, but you can do yes, and there might be better plugins.
52:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this was again five years ago when I was trying to do this.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, there's options, I'm saying you don't have to necessarily be like, I have to cut off this income stream in order to live a lifestyle that's lower tech.
53:11
[SPEAKER_01]: For us, we did feel like it was incongruent to value something so highly, like not consuming short-form content and yet be creating short-form content.
53:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for us, we just felt that incongruency and we don't want to put out something that we don't think is healthy for people to consume or that we don't want to promote consuming.
53:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So we moved into long-form content, and we both enjoyed creating more, and think it's healthier for people to consume, but there's options there as well.
53:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Folks, we're going to call it, okay?
53:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We could go on and on and on and on, I'm sure.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We have.
53:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here we have.
53:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Folks, have a great day.
53:49
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you next time.
53:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.