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Pioneer Productions Company Presents 'What the Constitution Means to Me' · Jersey Arts Podcast

• 0:03
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're listening to the Jersey Arts podcast.
• 0:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If you're an avid news viewer, you've probably heard discussions of the U.S.
• 0:11
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Constitution bandied about as of late.
• 0:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Is it being violated?
• 0:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Are we upholding it?
• 0:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Does anyone really know what's in it?
• 0:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well, if you're not sure what's in it, but you're intrigued and would like to learn through a fun and engaging night at the theater, Pioneer Productions Company invites you to their production of what the Constitution means to me.
• 0:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And if you do know what's in it and enjoy lively debate, you're still going to want to see the show.
• 0:36
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But what is it really about?
• 0:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The autobiographical two-time Tony nominated play and flip the finalist was written and first performed by Heidi Strack.
• 0:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The synopsis reads: 15-year-old Heidi earned her college tuition by winning constitutional debate competitions across the United States.
• 0:54
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: In its hilarious, hopeful, and fakingly human play, she resurrects her teenage self in order to trace the profound relationship between four generations of women and the founding document that shaped their lives.
• 1:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Miriam Salerno will tackle the role of Heidi alongside Benjamin Weissman as the legionnaire, under the direction of pioneer artistic director Daniel Vitzers.
• 1:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Ashley Vitzers will appear as the debater.
• 1:18
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Now, not only is this an engaging play, but this production is bookended by excitement.
• 1:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Beginning with a pre-show USO performance by Jay De los Santos and ending with a live debate where it's up to the audience to proclaim the winner.
• 1:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Today I'm chatting with the director and the cast of what the Constitution means to me.
• 1:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So let's meet the team.
• 1:37
  Dan Vissers: My name is Dan Vissers.
• 1:39
  Dan Vissers: I am the artistic director of Pioneer, and I'm directing What the Constitution Means to Me.
• 1:45
  Miriam Salerno: Hi, my name is Miriam Salerno, and I am playing Heidi in What the Constitution Means to Me.
• 1:50
  Benjamin Weisman: And I'm Benjamin Weisman, and I am playing the Legionnaire in What the Constitution Means to Me.
• 1:55
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm so excited.
• 1:56
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This show is, well, it's pretty timely, isn't it?
• 2:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think it's important that we talk about it.
• 2:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I want to know what was your understanding of our constitution.
• 2:10
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And this is a question for everyone.
• 2:11
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What was your understanding of our constitution before becoming familiar with this show?
• 2:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Because I'll tell you right up front, I still don't understand our constitution.
• 2:21
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I mean, I that is something that I am not proud of.
• 2:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I am still quite ashamed of it.
• 2:26
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I need to see the show so that I can understand.
• 2:29
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I'm curious if you guys were in the same boat or if you maybe were history majors with all of this.
• 2:37
  Miriam Salerno: So I was a history and political science major and a bit of a nerd.
• 2:42
  Miriam Salerno: And constitutional law was actually my favorite class as an undergrad.
• 2:47
  Miriam Salerno: So this was something that I was pretty intimately familiar with, although, you know, hadn't really spent a lot of time thinking about it in an academic way in a long time.
• 2:59
  Miriam Salerno: So when I first read the play, it was like I immediately connected with Heidi because it was like all of my things that I was passionate about in one place.
• 3:07
  Miriam Salerno: So that's me.
• 3:09
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think you were ahead of the game there because, like I said, that I don't think that I could play Heidi at this point in time.
• 3:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Maybe, you know, with more research, sure.
• 3:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I definitely didn't start with the background that you did.
• 3:21
  Benjamin Weisman: Dan, uh so I'll I'll jump a little, I'll say, you know, I like like Miriam, I did study political science and um uh I loved constitutional law.
• 3:30
  Benjamin Weisman: I come from a family of lawyers and a good judge or two.
• 3:32
  Benjamin Weisman: So um so it's a very, you know, legal household, if you will, that I grew up in and knowing.
• 3:38
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh, you know, for me, the the knowledge of the constitution, I think, was very much uh more intellectual than practical.
• 3:45
  Benjamin Weisman: And I think one of the things with this show that I've loved so much is that it takes what isn't the Constitution is so often treated as a museum piece, I think, and it's not that.
• 3:54
  Benjamin Weisman: It actually really does have a real impact on people's lives, which I think this play really tells that story so powerfully.
• 4:00
  Benjamin Weisman: And then the other part of my life is in politics.
• 4:03
  Benjamin Weisman: I'm a I'm a town council member in my town and have been really involved in politics for over a decade in various ways.
• 4:10
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh, and so certainly again taking this out of just sort of an intellectual exercise, but into the real impact of something that I've been really has been a part of my life in a couple of different avenues, I would say.
• 4:21
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well, obviously, this was a well-cast show.
• 4:27
  Dan Vissers: Uh so I actually I'll just jump in real quick.
• 4:29
  Dan Vissers: Um, I just want to say, like, I didn't actually know the background between Ben and Miriam as far as all this constitutional stuff until right now.
• 4:38
  Dan Vissers: So actually, that makes perfect sense because their understanding of this material um is right on point.
• 4:45
  Dan Vissers: Um, and I just want to say I'm one of those people, I don't have a constitutional law background.
• 4:50
  Dan Vissers: My memory of constitutional stuff from high school is minimal.
• 4:55
  Dan Vissers: Um, so I came into this where I just feel like this show is so educational in a great way.
• 5:02
  Dan Vissers: Like there's things you remember, but then it drives it home.
• 5:05
  Dan Vissers: Um, and how it's a living and breathing document and it's constantly evolving, you know.
• 5:12
  Dan Vissers: Um, the amendments, all of that.
• 5:15
  Dan Vissers: And even in the current climate, you know, things are still evolving, but that's kind of how it should.
• 5:21
  Dan Vissers: There's an ebb and a flow to everything, you know.
• 5:24
  Dan Vissers: So um, this is all part of the process, is what I'm learning from the show.
• 5:28
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love this so much.
• 5:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love that this podcast is what allowed you to learn, you know, about a little more about Benjamin and Miriam as well.
• 5:36
  Dan Vissers: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 5:37
  Dan Vissers: It makes sense though.
• 5:39
  Dan Vissers: I'm like, oh yeah, now that all makes sense.
• 5:41
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: How did you know that?
• 5:44
  Dan Vissers: Oh I thought they were just great actors and did their well, they are.
• 5:48
  Dan Vissers: They are.
• 5:49
  Dan Vissers: That's pretty good.
• 5:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: They are indeed.
• 5:53
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, that's it's something that I always say I want to learn more about, but I find politics to be a little daunting.
• 6:05
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like uh I don't know if daunting is the right word, overwhelming.
• 6:08
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like in order to educate myself at this point in my life, I feel like I'm a little behind the curve.
• 6:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You know, I wish I'd paid more attention in world history or in uh US history, especially US history.
• 6:19
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Um but yeah, this show I've seen pop up a few times now.
• 6:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I mean, the reasons may be obvious, but I will ask you anyway.
• 6:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You plan your season well in advance, right?
• 6:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I mean, you this has been in the works for months now.
• 6:36
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So at the time when you were planning your season, how did you come upon this show?
• 6:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What what landed you here?
• 6:44
  Miriam Salerno: So I was first introduced to the show by Dan.
• 6:47
  Miriam Salerno: He gave me the script to read probably four or five years ago, a while ago, um, when it was first uh I think released.
• 6:55
  Miriam Salerno: And I immediately loved it.
• 6:58
  Miriam Salerno: And I knew at some point that like it would be a dream to do it.
• 7:01
  Miriam Salerno: But the years kind of went on and we had other projects, and I don't really know what it was, but last I think it was March or April of last year, just this light bulb went off in my head, and I was just like, this is the time to do it.
• 7:18
  Miriam Salerno: Like, you know, obviously the context of what was happening around us played a part in that that feeling that I had.
• 7:26
  Miriam Salerno: But um so I texted Dan and I was like, Hey, what do you think about doing the Constitution next season?
• 7:34
  Miriam Salerno: Trying to squeeze it in.
• 7:35
  Miriam Salerno: We always have a fall play and a spring musical.
• 7:38
  Miriam Salerno: We this is the first season we've done three shows.
• 7:41
  Miriam Salerno: And so I said to him, I said, you know, what do you think about trying to squeeze this in next year?
• 7:46
  Miriam Salerno: We sort of my first thought was like maybe sometime around Martin Luther King Day, but you know, wound up being a little bit later, and he responded, like, yeah, let's do it.
• 7:56
  Miriam Salerno: Um and so then we brought it to the rest of the board and they all, you know, agreed.
• 8:02
  Miriam Salerno: So that was like from my perspective, but Dan, uh, you know, what was going through your head?
• 8:06
  Dan Vissers: Well, I just want to chime in, and again, this was a coincidence entirely, but um, it's the 250th anniversary of the constitution this year.
• 8:15
  Dan Vissers: So that's another reason we were lucky to get the rights because there are so many theaters that caught on to that and they were like, Oh yeah, we should do it.
• 8:23
  Dan Vissers: So we got in there at the right time.
• 8:25
  Dan Vissers: Um and it's just such an important show.
• 8:28
  Dan Vissers: So to tie it into the constitution's anniversary is is ideal.
• 8:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think I just learned the word for the 250th anniversary, and I'm going to mess it up now.
• 8:39
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Is it the semi-quincentennial?
• 8:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think that's what it's called.
• 8:44
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I would know the answer to that.
• 8:46
  Benjamin Weisman: I know I think I see I I think that's right.
• 8:48
  Benjamin Weisman: I'm like, I think that's right.
• 8:51
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, it's when I first saw it, I was like, semi.
• 8:54
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What that it that feels like a cop-out, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:57
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, apparently it's just the semi-quincentenal.
• 9:01
  Miriam Salerno: Just because we're nerds, it's not the 250th of the constitution.
• 9:05
  Miriam Salerno: Oh, of the sorry since we're nerds.
• 9:09
  Miriam Salerno: Yes, it's the 250th anniversary of our nation, and that's what I meant.
• 9:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: As we've learned that it is the 250th anniversary of our nation and that of our constitution, although I would have assumed that it was also our constitution, which is that a whole conversation about how little I know.
• 9:28
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I think uh I started this conversation with the assumption that everybody just knows what this show is about.
• 9:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Silly me.
• 9:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: How about both Miriam and and Benjamin?
• 9:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You walk me through what a little bit what the show is about, but also what it means to you personally and what you've learned from your roles as as you've crafted these backgrounds in this production.
• 9:52
  Miriam Salerno: So like I said earlier, you know, I I I immediately did identify with Heidi just because of her, you know, experience, what you know, studying she, you know, she she talks about the fact that she went into college pre-law and she also did theater, and like that was very much kind of like where I came from as well.
• 10:14
  Miriam Salerno: So it was pretty easy for me to sort of slip into her skin, you know, as a starting point, uh, because I'm the same age she was when she did it on Broadway.
• 10:28
  Miriam Salerno: And you know, I we I have similar interests and points of view as she does or as she did when she was writing this.
• 10:37
  Miriam Salerno: And then I think it took more work for me when I had to kind of work through her personal family story, you know, that was more where like on a surface level, it's like, oh, me and Heidi, we have like everything in common, you know?
• 10:52
  Miriam Salerno: Um this is easy.
• 10:53
  Miriam Salerno: And then, you know, it's very also very, very personal.
• 10:56
  Miriam Salerno: And she talks about the history of her family and her mom and her grandmother and her great-great-grandmother and what her family went through.
• 11:03
  Miriam Salerno: And I think for me, the harder work was um allowing myself to feel like at home in her stories because I'm telling a real woman's story, and that's a unique experience, you know, and something I I've had the fortunate opportunity to do it one other time because I played Cheryl Strade um in Tiny Beautiful Things, and we did that with Pioneer.
• 11:28
  Miriam Salerno: So I had that kind of experience um to fall back on, but it took a lot of work to really um live in her stories.
• 11:38
  Miriam Salerno: And I that was one of the first pieces of advice that Dan gave me when I started um kind of working on it because it did I did start working on it on my own over the summer, and he was just like, you need to make these stories your own.
• 11:52
  Miriam Salerno: Like, you know, whatever that means for you, you could be and that was such good advice um because I did really, really sit with her stories and her family history and try to um just try to make it part of my body.
• 12:14
  Miriam Salerno: Um, and because the the only way to really tell her stories honestly is that they're when I'm that they're mine when I'm up there, you know, and that that took some time to live with.
• 12:25
  Miriam Salerno: I really had to spend a lot of time with the material.
• 12:30
  Benjamin Weisman: It was a beautiful question, I thought it's just amazing to get to watch you do that.
• 12:34
  Benjamin Weisman: I will say in each of these, it really it's it's they feel like your stories, I think, in in a really beautiful way.
• 12:40
  Benjamin Weisman: Um, because I think you you are embodying them.
• 12:43
  Benjamin Weisman: And you know, I think what's interesting about the role, the legionnaire role that I play is that there's this there's this quote I love this philosopher Warren Bennis, who I will quickly say I know nothing about, so if he's a terrible person, please don't hold that against me.
• 12:54
  Benjamin Weisman: Um, but he said, and I'm paraphrasing uh that there are two ways of being creative one can sing and dance, or one can create an environment in which singers and dancers can flourish, and you need both.
• 13:05
  Benjamin Weisman: And I always joke, if you ever heard me sing, you would agree I should create the environment, not doing it.
• 13:11
  Benjamin Weisman: But I think part of so much of what I I see the legion and the role that I play in the show is helping to just create that environment, basically set the table so all the things that Miriam was talking about that she's able to do in telling Heidi's, in telling these stories and bringing this the story to life and moving moving the show along.
• 13:30
  Benjamin Weisman: And so it's been fun to sort of explore those different moments where where is you know where where my the the the task might keep things on schedule, where might the friend insists in encouraging or providing whatever you know whatever Miriam needs, Heidi needs in these in the moment, in each moment of the show.
• 13:49
  Benjamin Weisman: I think that's I think it's in a really beautiful um role in that respect.
• 13:54
  Benjamin Weisman: And really, it's it's a real I said this to to both Miriam and Dad, it's a real honor to get to do that.
• 13:59
  Benjamin Weisman: This is a play that I've loved.
• 14:00
  Benjamin Weisman: I saw this play when it was when when Heidi was first doing it, you know, off off Broadway back however many years it was.
• 14:07
  Benjamin Weisman: And I've loved this play since then.
• 14:09
  Benjamin Weisman: And so to get to sort of help create that environment and just be a support and a part of making, you know, helping to you know set the foundation, I suppose, in a way, for for these beautiful and critically important stories to be told is something that is gonna stick with me for a long time after this.
• 14:26
  Benjamin Weisman: Is all after you know we we we finished the run.
• 14:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What a beautiful sentiment that I think I had felt on some level, but hadn't really been able to put to words before.
• 14:37
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I'm so glad that you shared that quote.
• 14:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I will say that you know, as a director, that is also what you do.
• 14:44
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You are creating this safe space in an environment in which people can create something new.
• 14:49
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And even for Miriam to like get comfortable with the stories of Heidi and embody that.
• 14:54
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I want to know what that relationship between director and actor is.
• 15:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: How were you able to assist in creating a safe space and in in bringing these people to life?
• 15:07
  Dan Vissers: Yeah.
• 15:08
  Dan Vissers: Um, well, fortunately, Miriam and I have some experience.
• 15:12
  Dan Vissers: We've worked together a few times.
• 15:14
  Dan Vissers: Um, so there's a trust there and a willingness to to play and not be afraid of failing, you know, trying things out.
• 15:22
  Dan Vissers: Um and with this play, like Miriam said, it it was a matter of finding a way to connect her personal stories to Heidi's.
• 15:32
  Dan Vissers: And once we started to find that and find the humor in the show, because it's a very funny show, too.
• 15:38
  Dan Vissers: And I want to stress that because people think, oh, it's gonna be a TED talk, it's gonna be kind of boring, and I'm gonna learn.
• 15:44
  Dan Vissers: No, I mean it's it's done in a in such a beautiful way that it's very entertaining.
• 15:50
  Dan Vissers: Um, there's a lot of aha moments that'll happen throughout the show where you're just like, oh my god, that makes, you know, I feel like a better person walking away from this show because you literally, I mean, Miriam can attest to it, but there's so many times where I'm like, I do that, like I'm part of that.
• 16:07
  Dan Vissers: I've done that a million times, and you're like, oh, you know, it kind of shines that light on it.
• 16:11
  Dan Vissers: So yeah, um, to get back to your original, it just working with Miriam, working with Ben, and just finding the naturalness of the situation, which again, they're so good at, you know.
• 16:22
  Dan Vissers: Um, so we had a lot of fun with this one for sure.
• 16:25
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm excited about the show, and I'm uh so happy that you brought up the humor because I I like to maintain that humor is the best way to learn.
• 16:33
  Dan Vissers: 100%.
• 16:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Sure, you can watch a dramatic show, and and I do occasionally, but honestly, most of what I watch is funny because you are able to walk away with a new understanding of the world without feeling weighed down by what you've just seen.
• 16:51
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I love shows like that, and I'm I haven't seen the show in its entirety, I will tell you, because when I watched the original production, I think, was on Prime, they had another.
• 17:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And for whatever reason, Prime didn't want me to watch it, so it would buffer every five minutes or so, and I was losing my mind.
• 17:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: A good show, I can tell this is a good show.
• 17:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think I got 40 minutes in with all of that buffering.
• 17:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I was trying to stick it out, but I just I didn't have the patience for it.
• 17:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I'm looking forward to coming to see your show in its entirety.
• 17:28
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Hopefully, Miriam, you will not be buffering on stage.
• 17:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I hope, I hope not.
• 17:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I hope not.
• 17:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Honestly, I would be very surprised if you did.
• 17:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: That would that would be a new skill for you.
• 17:39
  Miriam Salerno: Yeah, the humor is is uh just just to chime in on what you're saying, um the humor of it is I think what makes this such a fun play to perform.
• 17:51
  Miriam Salerno: Um, because I get to play Heidi at 15 and Heidi in her mid-40s, and she's a riot.
• 17:59
  Miriam Salerno: She is hilarious, and it's almost, you know, so it seems like yes, it's I'm just talking for a long time, but as Dan and I have explored, I am like three or four different versions of Heidi over, you know, the course of the story.
• 18:15
  Miriam Salerno: So it's not just you know, flat at all, like I am all over the map, and it's just it brings so much energy and life to it.
• 18:24
  Miriam Salerno: And I love getting to be funny and getting to be silly and getting to be serious and getting to be angry, and it, you know, it's it's just really well constructed.
• 18:34
  Miriam Salerno: It is an extremely well constructed play.
• 18:37
  Miriam Salerno: Heidi has written a masterpiece, and what a gift as an actor to be able to go on this journey.
• 18:44
  Miriam Salerno: It's really, it's really quite something.
• 18:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I was gonna say, as an actor, that must be really fun because you're essentially playing three different roles.
• 18:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I mean, it's the same person, but when you're attacking someone from different points in their life, they are very different people.
• 19:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I can imagine that this was a huge undertaking for you as a performer.
• 19:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I'm wondering, and I think we sort of touched on this, but is there anything that you as actors learned, you as the director learned about our country that you hadn't known before?
• 19:23
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And maybe that is because of the text, but also because of the time in which you are performing it.
• 19:27
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Have you come to any of your own aha moments as people were intimately associated with the text?
• 19:35
  Miriam Salerno: Dan brings an aha moment every single rehearsal, so I'll let him start.
• 19:41
  Dan Vissers: Yeah, so this is a word that uh plays into the show a lot.
• 19:45
  Dan Vissers: Um, it's called penumbra.
• 19:47
  Dan Vissers: And that's something I've learned about, which is the most incredible thing.
• 19:51
  Dan Vissers: It's here I am standing in the light, and there you are in the darkness, and this area in between us, this partial illumination.
• 19:59
  Dan Vissers: Is Penumbra.
• 20:01
  Dan Vissers: And what I take from that is to every given topic, no matter how controversial it is, um, you could have two sides of that argument where they're gonna make brilliant points.
• 20:14
  Dan Vissers: And I think that's what this show enlightened for me is that you know, you think everything is so black and white, the good people are here, and all these people, and but when you really break it down, and this show teaches that of we're all in this partial illumination, and you're right, and you're right, and where do we meet, you know, and that's what the constitution tries to do, you know.
• 20:37
  Dan Vissers: Um, so penumbra, that's what I learned.
• 20:41
  Benjamin Weisman: And I think what's so interesting about it, and and what I think, you know, I've it it always fascinated me, I think, really, even now delving in more to the show and to the the the lessons from it, it's this idea of that the constitution, there's a the it it leaves it's just such an obvious statement, but it leaves so much to interpretation.
• 20:59
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh and so when we think about you know, we think about politics, if you will, we think about the you know, which is I think politics is so often uh a dirty word for so many people, which I I understand that, but really I look at that and say, what that really is is who do we want interpreting those those those uncertainties?
• 21:19
  Benjamin Weisman: Who do we want deciding what those five words in one sentence and one amendment mean?
• 21:25
  Benjamin Weisman: Because it's not clear.
• 21:26
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh and in fact, there's there's a lot.
• 21:29
  Benjamin Weisman: I think one of the things that the first time I saw it, rec realizing is even some of the the Supreme Court justices don't necessarily even understand what some of these mean.
• 21:38
  Benjamin Weisman: It's so it's up to humans to make these decisions.
• 21:41
  Benjamin Weisman: And I think every time we go through this this show, every time every rehearsal, I there's a moment I say, you know, you could argue anything about what those five words mean.
• 21:52
  Benjamin Weisman: What does the word shall mean?
• 21:54
  Benjamin Weisman: We heard, you know, what is the going back, what does the word is mean?
• 21:57
  Benjamin Weisman: Like these are not simple questions.
• 21:59
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh and I think I I wish more and more people recognized that all that politics, in my view, all that politics really is, is deciding who we want interpreting those things for us.
• 22:12
  Benjamin Weisman: Uh, and there's a real impact on the lives at every single level.
• 22:16
  Benjamin Weisman: And so, and now when I'm writing ordinances or resolutions in my town, I'm thinking about where is where is where's the vagueness?
• 22:24
  Benjamin Weisman: And is it deliberate vagueness or is it accidental vagueness?
• 22:28
  Benjamin Weisman: And really all that accidental vagueness is is kicking the can down the road to somebody else to make a decision and interpretation.
• 22:34
  Benjamin Weisman: I think my view, our constitution does that a lot.
• 22:36
  Benjamin Weisman: I think that let's play really, I think dramaturgically, where it's so brilliant, and I think in the ways that Mami you've crafted this, the the how the story is told uh in this production, where it's so brilliant is that Heidi's interpretation or relationship to it changes, and dramaturgically, it's such a natural or seamless.
• 22:57
  Benjamin Weisman: Well, I I thought this, but now I think this.
• 23:00
  Benjamin Weisman: And it's really seamless in the way that it happens.
• 23:03
  Benjamin Weisman: I think it's a beautiful thing for the beautiful journey for an audience to go through.
• 23:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You bring up such a good point because honestly, I only realized that maybe within the last year or two, that so much of the law, so much of our constitution really is up for interpretation.
• 23:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I guess when I was younger, or even you know, a young adult, I still assumed that everything was very widely accepted as this is truth, and we all understand it in the same way, which is becoming more and more evident that that no, society does not interpret everything in the same way.
• 23:40
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So that's a very good point.
• 23:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I'm looking forward to how this production, since I only made it 40 minutes three months, I'm looking forward to seeing the evolution of that interpretation.
• 23:53
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So thank you for breaking that down in a way that that I could understand it.
• 23:58
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You know, I think that I had an understanding that I wasn't able to vocalize.
• 24:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And all of you, all three of you, have been doing a great job of vocalizing the things that we feel but don't know how to express.
• 24:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Thank you for that.
• 24:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And maybe, you know, thanks to Heidi as well for having written a text and giving you, you know, giving you the opportunity to do so.
• 24:21
  Dan Vissers: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I think in closing, I just want to ask each of you.
• 24:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This is a scary question because I don't think that we should project an idea onto our audiences.
• 24:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Again, this isn't up for interpretation, but from a personal standpoint, what do you hope that audiences will enjoy about this production in its entirety?
• 24:41
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I should bring up that you're doing a pre-show cabaret as well.
• 24:44
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I and we didn't talk about that.
• 24:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So the production as a whole is larger than just the show and just Heidi's script.
• 24:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So let's talk a little bit about what the the cabaret is going to involve and what you hope the experience is for your audiences.
• 25:02
  Miriam Salerno: Yeah.
• 25:02
  Miriam Salerno: So the cabaret was an idea that I had with um a performer that we've worked with a lot.
• 25:11
  Miriam Salerno: Uh, their name is Jade Delos Santos, and they are the most extraordinary vocalists that I've ever heard live.
• 25:20
  Miriam Salerno: Um, and so Jade had asked at some point about Pioneer doing more cabaret style performing, which shows.
• 25:29
  Miriam Salerno: So it was something that we have talked about.
• 25:31
  Miriam Salerno: And so when we decided to do this, I kind of had the idea.
• 25:35
  Miriam Salerno: One of the things that Dan is great at as the artistic director for Pioneer is setting the context, like creating a place.
• 25:44
  Miriam Salerno: When you walk into the theater, you are transported into another space to experience the show.
• 25:53
  Miriam Salerno: And I have learned so much from Dan about this idea of you know, the experience starts as soon as they walk in the door.
• 26:02
  Miriam Salerno: And so being that this is taking place in an American Legion Hall, Jade and I had this idea to kind of do like a USO style live pre-show.
• 26:13
  Miriam Salerno: Dan and other directors at Pioneer are very uh thoughtful with the pre-show music, what people are hearing as they're gathering in their seats and you know, um just milling about before the show starts.
• 26:26
  Miriam Salerno: Again, it sets this context, the sense of place.
• 26:29
  Miriam Salerno: So the idea kind of came from that and came from Jade's as just this incredible vocalist and cabaret performer.
• 26:38
  Miriam Salerno: And I thought, let's do a live pre-show, let's bring people into an American Legion Hall with um patriotic songs from the 20th century that you might experience at a USO.
• 26:50
  Miriam Salerno: And it happens to be that Jade has this affinity for USO style music.
• 26:55
  Miriam Salerno: It is something that they love to sing.
• 26:58
  Miriam Salerno: It was a random coincidence that they have a songbook full of USO songs.
• 27:03
  Miriam Salerno: Um, so it just the idea kind of came together, but really the intent is to create the sense of place.
• 27:09
  Miriam Salerno: So you walk in and it's it's setting the scene for the rest of the performance.
• 27:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love that.
• 27:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I have to say I'm a huge fan of USO style performances.
• 27:19
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I'm just getting amped, guys.
• 27:24
  Dan Vissers: I I just want to say Jade is incredible, and uh, like you said, like she had a book full of this music.
• 27:30
  Dan Vissers: It was the universe just lining it up.
• 27:32
  Dan Vissers: We were like, oh, that's gonna work out perfectly.
• 27:34
  Dan Vissers: So um, you know, we have a lot of tools in our toolbox and we have a lot of talented friends, and we're gonna use them.
• 27:40
  Dan Vissers: It's gonna be great.
• 27:42
  Benjamin Weisman: I'm just so excited for that.
• 27:43
  Benjamin Weisman: We hear the two of you talk.
• 27:45
  Benjamin Weisman: I'm like, I'm gonna be staying backstage just like giddy listening to it.
• 27:48
  Benjamin Weisman: It's gonna be so cool.
• 27:49
  Benjamin Weisman: I can't wait.
• 27:51
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love it.
• 27:51
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I the thing I love about Pioneer is like the the genuine passion and joy that you always bring to your productions.
• 27:58
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And in speaking to you and speaking to the different casts and crews that I've spoken to over the years, it's just so obvious in everything that you do.
• 28:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I'm excited.
• 28:08
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm and I'm proud.
• 28:09
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I that sounds so condescending.
• 28:11
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I don't mean it that way.
• 28:12
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I just mean like it's so nice to see people who genuinely enjoy what they do.
• 28:17
  Dan Vissers: Thank you, Gina.
• 28:18
  Dan Vissers: Thank you.
• 28:18
  Dan Vissers: Thank you so much.
• 28:21
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What the Constitution means to me runs for a limited five performances, January 31st and February 1st, 6th, 7th, and 8th.
• 28:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: For tickets and more information, be sure to visit Pioneer Productions Company.org.
• 28:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If you like this episode, be sure to review, subscribe, and tell your friends.
• 28:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: A transcript of this podcast, links relevant to the story, and more about the arts in New Jersey can be found at jerseyarts.com.
• 28:45
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The Jersey Arts Podcast is presented by Art Pride New Jersey, advancing a state of creativity since 1986.
• 28:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The show was co-founded by and currently supported by funds from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts.
• 28:57
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This episode was hosted, edited, and produced by me, Gina Marie Rodriguez.
• 29:02
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Executive producers are Jim Atkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez.
• 29:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And my thanks to Miriam Salerno, Ben Weisman, and Dan Vissers for speaking with me today.
• 29:10
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez for the Jersey Arts Podcast.
• 29:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Thanks for listening.